The point that Jey tried to paint me and Kaba as buddies is a strange reach and might have been laying the ground work to lynch whichever one of us survives toDay. It's not a strong read but my view of the game state is not pretty foggy right now.
Or I just think you're both scum. Less to do with you being a team and more individual reads.
About the people making comments that you two couldn't possibly be on the same team, I just co-modded a game where multiple people from the town team said variations of "player X and player Y can't possibly both be scum" and they were both scum, so at this early in the game I'm focusing on individuals as opposed to teams.
The question you were asked was specifically about teams though. So for you to deny it was about teams now doesn't read well to me.
First thing's first, I'm okay with the Grapefruit train A) because I think he's acting scummy, and B) because some of my townreads are pushing it.
I also really dislike his voting history: Kabazame and Jey are lenient townreads of mine. I don't like his readlist either. I don't like how when I asked him to go in-depth because he had no interaction with those players, he gave a bit more, but really nothing I found substantial. I didn't like his townread on Zionite, one that had the disclaimer of "having no basis". And, I didn't like how he later rescinded that and got scumvibes from Zionite for "white-knighting", yet stayed true to his townread on Zionite?
Some things strike me as contradictory here.
Kabazame vs Grapefruit feels unaligned to me.
It's optimal to get a claim from Zionite before a lynch there, but enh. A claim from grapefruit would suffice.
She posts a lot of fluff, and keeps saying for a long time that there’s no base to her reads. At first she says she is good at reading players but bad at explaining reads, which is fine. But then she says she doesn’t know why EL / Shadow are scum. Which isn’t ok. There’s a big difference between not being able to express your reasons and not having reasons at all.
One sentence that bugs me is this one: “Shadow and EL arguing is nothing. There's no content or reads. Nobody is trying to scum-hunt, it's just a pillow fort battle. If one or both are scum, this is excellent fake content.”
How can it be fake content if only one of them flips scum?
She talks too much about connections with EL and not enough about EL himself.
When she finally makes the case under pressure, she starts by explaining how he’s town to then switch to scum again, calling every town tell she saw before “bull*****”.
In that same post she’s setting up Grapefruit as next lynch. It’s funny how she went from Blues being lowhanging fruit that EL is voting to Blues (Grape) is the next lynch.
Also she goes from having to reread Kabazame to calling him scum without explanation. I assume simply because he's her counterwagon, but I should look closer to the votes and order of votes to get a grasp on that.
Study and Toastboy are playing similar games taking indepth looks at just about everything and coming to reasonable conclusions. I don't agree with every conclusion they have but they are both playing logically and clearly. And have reacted comfortably when pressured over their reads.
Lurker for similar reasons. Only reason I'm not including him in the top group is I'm worried about the way he's preemptively drawing associations. Again I don't agree with everything he's said (his read on Kaba for instance) but it's being given in a way that seems unlikely to come from scum. Also again mostly like the way he's reacted to what little pressure he's been under.
Rodemy, Shadow, and Zionite all gave me weak town vibes based on tone. With Zionite I liked the way he was snapping back at Lurker earlier. I also have good feelings because our reads have lined up. He's this low because I am worried about the lack of detail. Makes it hard to grok his motivations. Shadow is just above null. There is a [redacted] tell that makes me more confident in him being town than random but I don't want to share it at this stage. And I've discussed Rod elsewhere.
I am sheeping the argument put forth by Study on Tubba.
I like Rhand's latest post reading Jey. The part about Jey focusing on EL's connections over EL's behavior was a nice catch that I hadn't seen written out like that before. Obviously not a ton to go on, but I like that last post.
The next 4 I don't have a read on one way or another. I have opinions on a few of their posts, but not enough to have a strong feeling one way or another on any of them.
Kaba and Jey are my two most likely to be scum. With Kaba I'm not sure how much of my read is based on me being unable to reset after being in the tunnel vs. still finding Toast's case persuasive. Tunnel's are bad yo.
The one thing I do like about RVS is it gives me a chance to wiggle, loosen up, etc. along with getting a shot of everyone (attempting to) acting a little casual for an IRL day or two and the switches in tone give me better feels on the players. To aggressively stomp it out so soon is forcing me to play a little out of my comfort zone is a tad unpleasant. That's fine, I'll adjust, even if I'm unhappy about it.
Vote EternalLurker
Maybe I missed some of these answers because of sudden short term memory loss (I'm really tired), but do you think RVS is entirely useless/a waste of time? Have you had a bitter experience about it which caused you to hate it or were you immediately not he fan the first time you experienced it? Was there an RVS in your first-ever (forum) mafia game?
First serious post, and a vote on EL because... she's upset about being pushed out of RVS? Kind of a weird reason to vote, but it's still so *shrug*.
You just said it: "acting" a little casual. RVS gives people a chance to act a certain way without any game pressure to bring out their real behaviors. The fact that I'm "forcing [you] to play a little out of [your] comfort zone" is exactly what I want. People in their comfort zones are also more comfortable lying easily, and that's not at all helpful for my reads.
RVS certainly can have its uses in getting to know people, but don't you already know most of the players here?
I'm quite new to play-by-post Mafia (no completed games yet), but my old IRL group always rushed through the early-game banter pretty quickly (partly due to me pushing through it quickly). Though, to be fair, it's a little easier when you can also get body language reads IRL, so things can progress much more quickly.
...You are going to hate me this game, I can already tell You're not much of an observer, are you?
Otherwise, that's cool. I would unvote here, but the bolded makes me worried. Why would you make that assumption?
I'm not getting the alarm bells JeY is on that question, but whatever. I don't think it's a scummy or townie, though the implication that it's scummy feels off to me. (Note: EL answers next post by noting that JeY comodded the recently ended Apocalypse game and assumed she knew the community due to that.)
I'm Iso's roommate, which is why he asked me. The players in this game? three of them were in Iso's game and I "know" two other players on the list from games 3ish years ago.
I have a bad feeling about EternalLurker. Vote will not be moving for now.
---
Rodemy, go home, you're drunk.
...oh wait
Not a lot to this one, other than the Star Wars-ish "bad feelings".
Ok so the viable lynches for D1 are Grapefruit, Kaba, or Jey. I also think Tubba might be scum but I'll expand. I also have Toast maybe being scum as well, but that's harder to explain.
Tubba: As a new player, his lower skill level SHOULD make him easy to read. He's being very cautious, however. I feel like this isn't a town mindset here. Being scared of being wrong, and being judged by that is much more likely to come from scum (not wanting to fail your team, the inherent stress of being scum and trying to avoid getting caught, etc) than a town one (maybe just being uncomfortable sharing?). And he kinda stopped posting after he got attention (obviously we don't know if that was the cause, but maybe). I'm not gonna convince anyone to lynch him in 24hrs so I'll revisit this tomorrow.
Grapefruit: As I mentioned earlier, BlueEclipse's question post is suspect to me because it felt hollow, as if he didn't actually care about the answers (obviously due to already knowing everyone's alignments), and then he replaced out (which is more of a personal reason for scumreading, as I've seen more scum than not replace out early game). Then Grapefruit came in, and said his predecessor was obvtown (which I've argued against) and just saying that shows an odd mindset for town. When replacing into a game, giving your judgment of someone you have the alignment information already for is not something people really think to do as town. Town generally wants to tell us what OTHER people's alignments are. This post, where he responds to Kaba is also giving me feelings. His call of OMGUS makes me feel like that is kind of an afterthought. Like he's trying to justify a read he didn't actually have before being called out on it. And his... disdain? I guess would be the word for what I'm reading here towards Anak attacking him for a weak reason just seems off. "You made someone attack me" isn't something town thinks. It's just not. Hm. I'd be ok with a Grape lynch today.
Kaba: Post 191 seems like townie frustration. And nothing is giving me scumvibes from his ISO.
Jey: Obivously the fluff in the beginning of the game is questionable. I also agree with LngrrR that his vote on Lurker because he dislikes RVS (or so it appears) is weird. Posts 96-97 "Everyone is getting town reads from Lurker, and I don't buy it, not yet" is a language thing. I feel like this should read "I don't UNDERSTAND it" instead of needing to be sold on a read if town.
I'm wondering if the carefree nature of her posts are throwing me though.
So.
Vote Grapefruit
I'd be less ok with Jey, but wouldn't hate it. Kaba is giving me good feelings in general, so I'll say he is good for today.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'll try to keep this post not a wall, but it's a full catch-up.
EDIT: keep this wall as short as possible*
EL's #351: This is a fine response in the first part. Okay. You say you have no problem making all of these statements but I got the notion that you were skimming under the radar since I would assume screaming about gaining towncred does more harm than good. Not very nonsensical to point out as an observation.
The second part, the 'double bus' comes from you and Kabazame both wanting to lynch Grapefruit.
EL's #357: Making me sound more crazy than I actually am. Die, scum.
EL's #363: This post to Kabazame is really weird to me. What town mindset?
EL's #413 EL saving his buddy by pointing out the obvious. Yes, he was asked to share his reads, but nothing about this convinces me that Kabazame is town. You can be logically consistent and behaviorally consistent as scum.
EL's 418: Sure EL can call something one his scumreads says townie and it's fine -shrug- Hang JeY if that ***** does it though.
EL's 435: You also forgot that I also suspected Kabazame and multiple people INCLUDING YOURSELF have questioned why I think Grapefruit and Kabazame are aligned [as scum]. Are you serious right now?
I really didn't want to spend a lot of time justifying the Kabazame vote because I have so little to spend, but here we go. I used the post that came after because I didn't have the opportunity to go back and find examples and struggle even more explain my feelings that are obvious to me in something that satisfies anyone in terms of a concrete reasoning. The post Kabazame made after my vote basically had the same vibe I've been getting all game.
It's stuff like this Kabazame as been doing most of the game that gives me all sorts of eyebrow raises.
But apparently you skipped that post, like the 'double bus power' post where you skipped me elaborating right after exactly what I meant. I'm assuming you missed it anyway.
You want to know why I'm not trying anymore? Because I am trying but it's so god damn difficult to know what I know and be able to convey that in terms everyone relates to. What I'm great at: reading people and knowing exactly who they are. What I'm bad at: explaining why these behaviors/patterns I see are indicative of alignment. So now I just look like an ass pushing pressure on people and never justifying it.
I hope people start ******* believing me when I flip town.
Also your 435 is another post oozing of scum behavior. Just saying.
LnGrrrR's 352: This is what I'm trying to get at while pushing EL's lynch. I have the same feeling.
Zionite's 356:I read them as scummy individually. What makes them so obviously unaligned to you? Because that's what I don't see.
Zionite's #415: Mixed feelings about this post, but overall it feels genuine.
Grapefruit's 379: Particularly the last statement: Zionite's post was weird but I disagree with the defending bit, I feel like there was something else he was accomplishing there.
Toastboy's 383: Solid push on Kabazame. Toast has probably been the main reason I paid more attention to Kabazame.
Vaimes's 401: Something is odd about this whole interaction. I like Zionite a lot less after that. I don't have anything concrete to give but I'm inspired to go back and look at him much more.
Kabazame's 405: This seems incredibly scummy. He's trying to use a fake get out of jail free card. This doesn't read to me as genuine at all.
406: I don't think Kabazame is believing what he's saying here.
409: Can someone explain to me how this interaction clearly shows that Grapefruit and Kabazame are definitely 100% unaligned? I don't see it.
Kabazame's 429/430: Another case of Kabazame saying something, but I don't get the impression that he believes his own words. Trying really hard to call me scum for this. These posts still make me cringe.
Vaimes does some good stuff. Their posts past few days don't concern me. Solid town-read. I still didn't flick Iso's nose.
---
shadowlancerx feels like a non-entity this game, to me. Maybe I'm not paying enough attention in general but I'm not enjoying that notion. Him, after Zionite, will be worth going back to look into.
---
Don't know what 'logical inconsistencies' there are in so many of my posts that people are pointing out? What the hell about my posts is fluff?
---
Who will honestly be surprised that I flip town if I'm lynched toDay?
Jey became a stronger read than Kaba when I reevaluated the interaction with Zionite about town hunting. I had thought Kaba was arguing against town hunting. That wasn't the case.
I stand by my T/S from earlier. I forgot to put KJ in it. I'd put him towards the top of the Rod/Zion/etc grouping. I don't have a strong feel for the game and my flip is better than no flip.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Jey became a stronger read than Kaba when I reevaluated the interaction with Zionite about town hunting. I had thought Kaba was arguing against town hunting. That wasn't the case.
Hm. Pa is townreading everyone up to Killjoy? With what I've read, I could buy that, sans Anak. Dude feels like white noise to me whenever I play with him (no offense).
Unvote Vote Grapefruit
I'm sick and town of town self voting out of frustration.
I AM SICK AND TIRED OF IT.
If you're town, which I can't help but think is the case with that self vote, then shame on you, but I'm don't with it, and I will be policy voting anyone who self votes in any scenario that is not LyLo from here on out. Townies continuing to do this is going to make it an okay scum tactic and I'm not going to stand for it.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Well I think that was the hammer. I replaced tried to ruffle some feathers to get reads and was too successful. I've never been so widely scum read in my life. Even as near mechanically caught scum. Pretty sure my lynch needed to happen and the self vote close to guarantees that there wasn't a no lynch.
Anyway I garnered enough scum reads that it would take more effort than I was able to give to not be a crucial mislynch down the line, if i had survived toDay. Pretty sure this lynch is a good mislybch for town because I am pretty sure that of the many people pushing my slot some were just town in a tunnel and this should help refocus them. Don't trust my reads they suck.
If I had more time, I would detail why, but I don't.
If Grape flips town, Iim pretty sure Study is town too. Making a post like this as scum, knowing that your premise is wrong, would be extremely ballsy.
Unvote Vote Grapefruit
I'm sick and town of town self voting out of frustration.
I AM SICK AND TIRED OF IT.
If you're town, which I can't help but think is the case with that self vote, then shame on you, but I'm don't with it, and I will be policy voting anyone who self votes in any scenario that is not LyLo from here on out. Townies continuing to do this is going to make it an okay scum tactic and I'm not going to stand for it.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
A hushed argument concludes in a number of fingers being pointed. The recipient points his finger at himself in resignation and walks up to the definitely not snoozing Chief Justice.
"We, er, think we've got one, sir."
One eye opens. With a gesture, the suspect is beckoned forward, dragged into the limelight by the mob. He is invited to state his name for the "court"
"Obadiah Whitebeard, yer honour" he replies, his gruff voice tinged with worry. The name is scratched onto a piece of parchment, the Chief Justice's lips mouthing out the syllables as they are recorded.
"Obadiah Whitebeard, you have been found guilty of grand conspiracy to commit regicide and blah blah blah sentenced to death."
A quick nudge to the daydreaming executioner, and the noose is hastily assembled. Obadiah eyes it with scepticism.
"You lot call this an execution? A quick snap of the neck in the noose? Why, back in my day we'd have had to provide a noose ourselves and it'd have been made of coarse hemp, not this silky modern tripe. And those would only have been for the wealthy. If you couldn't afford a noose you'd have to pay a smaller fee for rent of a chicken for the day and find a cousin with a sword or farm implement and then, after having walked to the execution yard (through the snow, real snow, not this poxy dust you kids have), you'd hand over both to the executioner who would produce his own chicken and...."
His mouth is still moving as his neck breaks cleanly. Thank goodness for modern execution techniques.
Grapefruit21 has been lynched. He was Obadiah Whitebeard - Town Vanilla
Obadiah Whitebeard - Town Vanilla
“The problem with kids these days”, you begin. You roll the words around your mouth. They are familiar, comforting. You take a swig of your horn of ale as you ponder your follow up. What is the problem with kids these days? Lack of work ethic? New fangled technology? Lawn occupation?
“They don’t know what’s good for them.” An old classic.
“Why when I was a boy, our shack was a single room, wi’ more animals than people, and I ‘ad sixteen brothers! I had to work three jobs one after the other, for only tuppence a week. And when we came ‘ome, our da would beat us with his belt. On a good day!”
The best thing about parties is the captive audience. Well, second best after the free ale. Ah, but back then you’d have dreamed of a pint of ale. You were more used to ‘aving cold gravel mixed with water - and that was a luxury! You’d only get a reward like that if you’d scraped out the water butt even if it wasn’t your turn to sleep in it.
But you try telling that to the youth of t’day all that, and they just wouldn’t believe you.
It is now Night 1, which will last for approximately 72 hours. If you have an ability you choose not to use, please tell me explicitly.
You are summoned back to the main hall by some very grumpy armed men. They jostle and push you, totally uncaring of your pounding hangover. Some breakfast has been prepared, but on closer inspection the fried eggs are leftover from the feast, and the bacon looks a little too much like cardboard dipped in fat for your liking. Still, any port of call in a storm (god, did you have port? Is that why you feel so filthy?) and choke some down.
That turns out to have been a mistake, as a corpse is dragged into the hall. His head is a mess of red and has left a long, sticky trail across the floor. The conspiracy is not only still at large, but is accelerating its timetable.
The Chief Justice grimly identifies the body, before having it dragged away. You are suspicious that it is being dragged in the direction of the kitchen.
Rhand has been killed. He was Charles Cabbage - Town Inventor. World renowned for his unreliable and creatively dangerous gadgets, his death comes as a grim reminder that there are some very bad people in this hall. And judging by the mess of Rhand's head, bad people who own some very sharp knives.
Charles Cabbage - Town Inventor
Careful now…concentrate…
Your hand is completely steady as you delicately insert the final cog into the intricate mechanism. It slides into place with a barely audible *click*.
You relax and exhale, realising that you have been holding your breath. The faint, rhythmic ticking tells you it’s finished. You wind the handle and gently lift the lid.The tiny figurine begins to twirl. No music plays, but a high-pitched ringing seems to come from everywhere at once. You frown, and then every window within a hundred yards shatters.
You are Charles Cabbage, engineer and inventor extraordinaire. Your mastery with everything from clockwork to landscaping is unique, which might be because nothing you make actually works precisely as intended. Not that you let that stop you. If anything, it motivates you to new heights of creativity.
Abilities
Test Subjects:You have a number of interesting items in your possession. Each Night, you may give one of them to a player of your choice, which will grant them a 1-shot ability. You may not use these abilities yourself. These items and the abilities they grant are:
Spectacles (One Shot) - Intended to remedy shortness of vision, they are rather over enthusiastic in their application, providing incredible magnification. At Night, you may target a player and track them. You will be told who they target that Night if any (but not with what ability).
Seven-League Boots (One Shot) - Constructed out of a very sturdy pair of boots lashed to small metal tubes and a theoretically survivable amount of gunpowder, Seven-League Boots are intended to allow the wearer to travel huge distances in a single stride in as few pieces as possible. Sadly, they don’t actually allow an entire seven leagues of movement, but they do allow for very rapid relocation. During the Night, you may utilise your extra boost of speed to bodyguard target player and intercept any kills attempts made against them.
Sleeping Potion (One Shot) - Alchemy is a delicate art, full of subtleties and careful checks and balances. This sleeping potion, for example should gently take the user into refreshing, dreamless sleep. It should also be a deep purple. It is, in fact, lurid orange. This belies a key misunderstanding in the creator of how much “a pinch” consist of. During the Night, you may (very carefully) throw the vial of sleeping potion within the room of target player. It will explode with a deafening blast of sound and light, roleblocking them and preventing them from taking any action that Night.
Doorstop (One Shot) - An innocuous looking doorstop, who knows what effect it will have on the unwitting victim? Secret note - it’s just a doorstop. This ability does nothing. The Recipient will not be informed.
@All: Sorry for the incoming wall of text, but this is my first opportunity to do anything with this today, and it's been moving quickly. That said, good on you guys for keeping things moving! Nice to have a game that's not full of lurkers (not to be confused with Lurker).
@StudyLatin: The question in #8 about who has the best scumgame is interesting, to say the least. I personally am not a fan of trying to meta based on other games a person has played, though that's more personal preference. And you mention in #12 that you want an idea of site meta and overall skill, but you're specifically asking who has the best scum game as opposed to who is most experienced, best overall, or even who has the best town game. You also mention in #100 that you feel it can give you an idea of how good scum play can be on the site, which again, I'm not certain why you would focus on that side of the game. Could you elaborate on why you want to know about scum play specifically?
In #60, you quote Shadow's post, and simply reply with 'Mind-meld'. Could you explain this statement? In addition, could you provide reasoning for your Killjoy vote?
To you question from #81, I'm not willing to make a call yet on whether both are town or not. I get a light town vibe from both of them, but it takes some time for me to really begin forming proper reads on people, so at the moment I'm not willing to call either of them anything but null reads.
@Kabazame: Question on your #13: Any particular reason why you refused to provide an RVS post?
Also, regarding #23, why are you so concerned with the tone and wording of Latin's post? I personally have no issues with his tone and verbiage (you'll find that mine tends to be similar, particularly in regards to some of my word choices).
And to answer your question in #66 - I'm known for using words like that (given the proper context, at least) in casual conversation. You mention specifically that you think Latin sounds tense, though. Is there anything in his posts that you're finding specifically evokes that belief?
In #86 you mention that people taking the time to think out their posts is an indicator that they're paranoid or nervous, or are otherwise hiding a scum alignment. Why do you disregard the possibility that a person may simply be taking the time to ensure they are not using a harsher tone than intended, or ensuring that there is no ambiguity in their wording?
Also, could you explain your comment in #87 that you feel RVS is beneficial to scum?
@JeY k: Noted regarding the name thing (see #18) - I'll use Jey in general comments, though I'll still use the full name with the @ addressing of comments to you.
In #52, you mention that you're unhappy for RVS ending early - do you think there's more specific benefits from an extended RVS as opposed to moving towards standard play and allowing more time for information to be gathered and reads to be formed from it? And what specifically is making you vote Lurker? The vote seems to almost be intended as an 'OMGUS, you pushed us out of RVS too soon' given the context of the rest of the post, so I'm wondering what other reasoning you have for it.
You mention in #79 that you tend to have good reads, but are poor at explaining them. Is there any reason why you bring this up specifically? (You reference it as a response to Latin, but I can't tell what you're responding to from him with it.) As a standalone statement, it seems to be scummy, as it seems you're trying to convince people to follow your reads without sufficient explanation. Also, when you say you don't like Shadow, any particular reasoning?
@EternalLurker: Regarding #20, Latin asking who the best scum player on the site has several possible reasons that I can come up with off the top of my head, each one more WIFOMy than the last. I'll elaborate if people ask, but otherwise I'll just leave it as mentioning that I don't see it as a scum move specifically.
In #43, you mention that Killjoy proclaiming you vs Latin as a TvT conflict doesn't benefit scum. As a thought exercise, what if Killjoy and either yourself or Latin (doesn't matter which) are scum. Do you still see no benefit to Killjoy writing it off as TvT?
In #47, you comment that if you were scum, you'd opt to pocket Anak. Any reason why him specifically?
In #50, you mention Anak as one of your scum reads (and one of your only non-null reads to this point). What are you seeing as scumtells from him?
You state in #77 that if Shadow considered Vaimes to be a good vote, you'd be willing to back him. Does this mean you're reading Shadow as town at the moment, and if so, why?
@Rodemy: Regarding #22, why vote seppel? I mean, I get that he's obvious scum, but he's scum somewhere else and is thus not bothering us, right? Also, why a goat?
On a more serious note, you mention in #32 that you feel Lurker is fearmongering in his #11, with his comments regarding Latin's question. And while you cite it later as a scumtell in #92, you still do not put any vote on him. Is there someone who you feel is more scummy than him at the moment (and as such more deserving of a vote or pressure), or are you uncertain about your read on Lurker for some reason?
And regarding the comment in #101 about having to unvote to change the vote, I don't believe this is the case if the current version of the vote counter software is being used. I'm not 100% certain on that, though, as I use unvotes out of habit.
@LnGrrrR: In #24, you said that Lurker's vote on Latin from #11 felt forced. Why do you say that, and what do you think it indicates?
@Toastboy: In #30, you vote for a 'Cantrimancer'. I've never heard of this individual, nor have I seen them participate in any games on this site. Who is he, and why are you convinced he's scum? Also, what kind of magic would cantrimancy even be?
@Vaimes: You claim a light townread on Kaba in #33. Any particular reasoning for townreading him over anyone else who has posted to that point?
@Anaklusmos: In #34, you complain about people ending RVS, then promptly vote for LnG with no explanation given. By the tone of the post, should we assume that this vote is not random - and if it is not, could you share your reasoning for it?
@shadowlancerx: In #35, you mention that your question about Lurker's vote was to see if it was joking or not. Do you have any thoughts on the vote or what it could indicate about Lurker knowing that it was serious?
@Pa Tennis: In #38, you mention early townreads on Lurker and Kaba, and provide reasoning. You don't provide any reasoning for the vote on Shadow, however - and as you confirmed in #41, it's not random. What made you vote him?
You call Latin a 'keystone read' in #71, but don't provide any additional detail. What do you mean by this - are you considering him town or scum, and what relevance does he have as a 'keystone read'? Also, you complain about Shadow attacking people but being sort of random, when the only person he seems to be attacking is Lurker. Can you explain his 'randomness' further?
@Killjoy: Could you please elaborate on why you've reached the reads you mention in #42?
In #85, you mention that you are waiting for more of the game to unfold before you go into detail about your reads. While I'm not getting the best vibes from your refusal to elaborate on that reasoning, I will ask you to at least explain what those reasons are (even if you do also explain the reads, I want to know your reasoning for withholding that information to this point).
@Tubba Fett: While I'll be happy to answer any general questions regarding the game, it's advisable to try and form your own leads. Overall, it's mainly logic - look at a person's posts, try to understand why they're saying what they do, and see if you can figure out whether it's a town, scum, or neutral course of action. Keep repeating, and try to identify anything that makes it seem like they aren't attempting to actually do what they say they're attempting to do.
@Zionite: In #75, you vote Rodemy because he wasn't voting anyone. Any particular reasoning why you vote him in particular for that, when nearly half of the field was not voting at that time?
General Opinion So Far: Overall, I don't have a strong enough town lean on anyone to credit anyone there. Most of my reads at the moment are null, with Pa Tennis standing out as scum due to his vote on Shadow in #38, and his relative lack of reasoning for it (his arguments in #71 seem particularly poor to me), and Killjoy leaning that way for me due to his insistence on not providing reasoning. If I had to pick a single town read at this point it would likely be Latin, just because his line of thought is largely making sense to me (I could easily see myself making many of those posts, in fact). However, I am concerned as - if he is instead scum - he could easily be pocketing Tubba Fett, and the line of questioning regarding the best scum player is making me hesitant to give him anything more than a very weak town read at present.
BlueGrape Wagon
Grapefruit21 - 9 (Anaklusmos, Kabazame, EternalLurker, Pa Tennis, Vaimes, Study Latin, Killjoy, Grapefruit21, shadowlancerx)
Making me happy:
Study Latin: Has consistently responded well to being pressured.
Jey K: Solid posts so far, definite feeling of being unaligned with everyone. (especially me D: )
Kabazame: Different axioms, but consistent logic from them.
I have no idea how to read this:
Anaklusmos: slight scum ping early, but recent post felt totally NAI to me, so Iunno yet
Tubba Fett: what is this even
Haven't posted ***** thus far; note to self, don't let them lurk:
Rhand
Zionite
Toastboy
Vaimes (on V/LA atm)
LnGrrrR (has posted a little but it's very content-light, which is a problem)
Being too vague:
Killjoy: At least acknowledges that he should be explaining his reads, but that's not much consolation.
Pa Tennis: Seems to be giving more depth to his reads now, but I'm not sold yet.
Not making me happy
Rodemy/Shadowlancer: "test the 'EL is scum' wagon...no one else agrees? whoops, run awaaaaaaay"
BluesEclipse: hoo boy, see below
Given that...
Vote: BluesEclipse
This feels like he's trying to follow my Town playbook in order to ingratiate himself. "Oh, hey, EL's starting to Town-read Latin, who's been mostly asking questions. Let me write up a question-wall. Oh, but wait, in post #89 EL criticizes Latin for not offering his own opinions instead of just questions. Let me throw in a half-hearted final paragraph about my own opinions, in which I basically say everyone is null to me...but that I'm defaulting to Mafia reads instead of Town reads, so that everyone is still available as a lynch target. Hm, let me seem less scummy by even throwing in a Town read of Latin -- and then hedge that read as hard as possible with a conspiracy theory."
yeah, easily the scummiest post in the entire thread
I'll update to the replacement so you don't need to alias it at all (since I'm pretty sure I was the only one voting BluesEclipse). Vote: Grapefruit21
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Grapefruit
Man, I hate seeing someone replace in and go "Oh hey I'm replacing in for obv-Town that's so great", especially when Blues was...not obv-Town. It's such a gross way to try to steal an undeserved Town-read.
Calling KZ's vote an OMGUS scum-tell is just straight-up misleading. Toastboy's been on KZ for a while and KZ's never shown any indication of wanting to vote in retaliation. He's voting GF now because he believes in the vote.
I like most of the content of GF's reads-list, though, especially the way that he seems legitimately undecided on Tennis' alignment. (As long as he explains his Toast read in more depth, cuz I'm not seeing Toast as "super town".) Overall, enough Town points and enough Mafia points that I'm pretty much exactly where I was on Blues pre-replacement (maybe sliiiightly more Town-leaning than before), so my vote stands for now.
I will note that if either Toastboy or GF flips scum I'll probably lynch the other on the next Day. GF saying that he'll jump on the "KZ bandwagon" when Toastboy was literally the only other KZ vote is a fairly strong hint that the two are aligned: people tend to give their allies' votes a little more subconscious weight, thinking there's more pressure against a person that an ally's voting than there might actually be.
First vote on the wagon was Lurker. On top of my current townread of him, this reasoning seems.. really illogical, and tinfoil-hatesque... but it's not something scum thinks. Scum doesn't look at a person's posts (especially a confirmed town) and say "he's copying me. VOTE." Lurker is town. I'd bet substancially on that.
Second vote is consistant with his previous vote, and provides good reasoning.
Oh right. Because apparently on this site you vote randomly to start for an indeterminate period, but all votes must be explained in great detail.
I voted Jey for talking about going with her intuition when confronted with actual evidence in 96. But in her latest set of posts she talked through it a little.
I am now voting Blues because the questions he claims help build understanding do not.
What I'm getting from Grapefruit is that what I'm seeing in Rodemy is just Rodemy. Maybe that's true. Maybe Rodemy somehow solves mafia games without reading posts. That's not really important here.
But he is saying that it's meaningless, and that Rodemy's tone when he's pushing his trash reads based on single posts makes him absolutely town, while also saying how good he is at faking it. He even agreed with my "Rodemy is putting Killjoy in an impossible position".
That read is never genuine. The confirmation bias in me says he's just reaching for a townread on a buddy, but it really looks more like he has TMI that Rodemy is town.
Blues was scummy. Grapefruit even moreso.
Not sure what would have to happen for me to move my vote.
Also inquisitiveness is not a scumtell. Overall good feelings about Vaimes.
Pa naked votes Blues, then soon after explains that his questions do not build understanding and are busywork. This vote isn't that good on that basis, since that's the only reasoning he had. at the time, and its a weak, largely subjective one.
Pa then comes back to vote Grape later because his read on Rodemy snapvoting Jey being town was fake. Obviously in hindsight it wasn't, but looking over the language of this reasoning, there's not really a way to tell that Pa knew that it wasn't fake. Also it's not inconsistant with his previous votes (like scum might do potentially). So that second vote is ok.
First vote still bad though.
And that last quote where he said Grape was obvious scum, obviously he needs to qualify that now.
You in your catch up post cursory reads on everyone, then vote the one person you didn't mention, citing hopping on the wagon. Talk about an action that's trying to let you blend in and back out if needed.
Anak's vote seems... WAY too confident. His reasoning, that his vote on someone he didn't mention in his catchup post leaves him a backdoor should he need it (and for "just jumping on the wagon)... is kinda crap. Like, the idea would be that Grape can avert suspicion by doing this by saying "I was just jumping on the wagon", but that makes no sense. Grapefruit has played enough games (and presumably saw how much flak Pa was getting for his naked votes) to know that not being able to justify your vote under scrutiny will lead to unwanted scum attention. That's also fairly basic Mafia knowledge, I think.
Anak's conviction seems false.
Regardless, I probably wouldn't vote just because you told me too, but Grapefruit was nice enough to just claim scum
Vote: Grapefruit21
You can't just say "I agree with everything toast said" without providing your own thoughts and jump on an easy bandwagon. You're buddying up to Toast calling him "super town" with no reason, same with Rod. Most of your reads are just town or scum with nothing explaining it, except Lurker who everyone has already talked to death about.
Anything original to add?
Kaba actually has a similar reason to Anak, but there's more to it. I feel like the amount of reasoning here makes Kaba commited enough to this vote that the vote is fine.
Yeah **** it I'll read things later, I just want to post, perpetually being in Catch-Up Land is the worst.
---
EL (1): JeyK (#52)
Rodemy (1): StudyL (#169)
JeyK (1): TubbaF (#247)
Killjoy (1): Rodemy (#265)
StudyL (1): Vaimes (#278)
TubbaF (1): shadow (#339)
PaT (2): Rhand (#158), Killjoy (#313)
BlueGrape (4): EL (#190), Anak (#234), Kaba (#236), PaT (#272)
Kaba (4): Toast (#145), BlueGrape (#230), LnGR (#276), Zionite (#336)
---
(This votecount might not be Officially Correct because if I see the words "vote [player]" in bold, I count it.)
Vote: Grapefruit21
"Vaimes, why are you voting for Grape?" Because I haven't read everything, I want to use my vote, there are two townreads on the wagon, I want to see people squirm, and I want people to notice me.
Hm. "following my townreads" isn't the worst reason to vote something. I dislike that he has nothing more substancial and he jumped on the largest town wagon for little reasoning. I'm gonna say... its kinda bad.
First thing's first, I'm okay with the Grapefruit train A) because I think he's acting scummy, and B) because some of my townreads are pushing it.
I also really dislike his voting history: Kabazame and Jey are lenient townreads of mine. I don't like his readlist either. I don't like how when I asked him to go in-depth because he had no interaction with those players, he gave a bit more, but really nothing I found substantial. I didn't like his townread on Zionite, one that had the disclaimer of "having no basis". And, I didn't like how he later rescinded that and got scumvibes from Zionite for "white-knighting", yet stayed true to his townread on Zionite?
Some things strike me as contradictory here.
Kabazame vs Grapefruit feels unaligned to me.
It's optimal to get a claim from Zionite before a lynch there, but enh. A claim from grapefruit would suffice.
Vote: Grapfruit21
L-3
Similar reason to Vaimes, also other stuff. Not a bad vote.
Ok so the viable lynches for D1 are Grapefruit, Kaba, or Jey. I also think Tubba might be scum but I'll expand. I also have Toast maybe being scum as well, but that's harder to explain.
Tubba: As a new player, his lower skill level SHOULD make him easy to read. He's being very cautious, however. I feel like this isn't a town mindset here. Being scared of being wrong, and being judged by that is much more likely to come from scum (not wanting to fail your team, the inherent stress of being scum and trying to avoid getting caught, etc) than a town one (maybe just being uncomfortable sharing?). And he kinda stopped posting after he got attention (obviously we don't know if that was the cause, but maybe). I'm not gonna convince anyone to lynch him in 24hrs so I'll revisit this tomorrow.
Grapefruit: As I mentioned earlier, BlueEclipse's question post is suspect to me because it felt hollow, as if he didn't actually care about the answers (obviously due to already knowing everyone's alignments), and then he replaced out (which is more of a personal reason for scumreading, as I've seen more scum than not replace out early game). Then Grapefruit came in, and said his predecessor was obvtown (which I've argued against) and just saying that shows an odd mindset for town. When replacing into a game, giving your judgment of someone you have the alignment information already for is not something people really think to do as town. Town generally wants to tell us what OTHER people's alignments are. This post, where he responds to Kaba is also giving me feelings. His call of OMGUS makes me feel like that is kind of an afterthought. Like he's trying to justify a read he didn't actually have before being called out on it. And his... disdain? I guess would be the word for what I'm reading here towards Anak attacking him for a weak reason just seems off. "You made someone attack me" isn't something town thinks. It's just not. Hm. I'd be ok with a Grape lynch today.
Kaba: Post 191 seems like townie frustration. And nothing is giving me scumvibes from his ISO.
Jey: Obivously the fluff in the beginning of the game is questionable. I also agree with LngrrR that his vote on Lurker because he dislikes RVS (or so it appears) is weird. Posts 96-97 "Everyone is getting town reads from Lurker, and I don't buy it, not yet" is a language thing. I feel like this should read "I don't UNDERSTAND it" instead of needing to be sold on a read if town.
I'm wondering if the carefree nature of her posts are throwing me though.
So.
Vote Grapefruit
I'd be less ok with Jey, but wouldn't hate it. Kaba is giving me good feelings in general, so I'll say he is good for today.
Here's my vote. I'm not gonna evaluate it because that's pointless. But its here for flow purposes.
Unvote Vote Grapefruit
I'm sick and town of town self voting out of frustration.
I AM SICK AND TIRED OF IT.
If you're town, which I can't help but think is the case with that self vote, then shame on you, but I'm don't with it, and I will be policy voting anyone who self votes in any scenario that is not LyLo from here on out. Townies continuing to do this is going to make it an okay scum tactic and I'm not going to stand for it.
Part of me wants to think Shadow is town for this (I said as much to Rhand) but I don't recall Shadow scumreading Grape. I also think that scum!Shadow knows that not voting here and voting here achieves the same thing, since majority would go to GF lynch here.
Probably town, in the context of vote analysis, and independent of my personal read.
In order from worst to best: Anak, Pa (depends on his explanation that i asked for, may move him), Shadow? (doesn't give a reason, but his attitude could come from town?), Vaimes, Latin, Kaba
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
You made the statement that "everyone on the wagon is town" prior to my vote. Justify all of them. Then answer to my points in my wagon analysis post: like why Grape was obvious scum in your eyes.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
You made the statement that "everyone on the wagon is town" prior to my vote. Justify all of them. Then answer to my points in my wagon analysis post: like why Grape was obvious scum in your eyes.
I think I talked plenty about why Grape was scum. Have also talked about my townreads. See here.
Though I don't think I mentioned Vaimes. Meta read because he posted instead of retreating into catchup mode.
She posts a lot of fluff, and keeps saying for a long time that there’s no base to her reads. At first she says she is good at reading players but bad at explaining reads, which is fine. But then she says she doesn’t know why EL / Shadow are scum. Which isn’t ok. There’s a big difference between not being able to express your reasons and not having reasons at all.
One sentence that bugs me is this one: “Shadow and EL arguing is nothing. There's no content or reads. Nobody is trying to scum-hunt, it's just a pillow fort battle. If one or both are scum, this is excellent fake content.”
How can it be fake content if only one of them flips scum?
She talks too much about connections with EL and not enough about EL himself.
When she finally makes the case under pressure, she starts by explaining how he’s town to then switch to scum again, calling every town tell she saw before “bull*****”.
In that same post she’s setting up Grapefruit as next lynch. It’s funny how she went from Blues being lowhanging fruit that EL is voting to Blues (Grape) is the next lynch.
Also she goes from having to reread Kabazame to calling him scum without explanation. I assume simply because he's her counterwagon, but I should look closer to the votes and order of votes to get a grasp on that.
vote: JeY K
@Pa
Why killjoy? If you've covered can you link post or post number(s)?
The question you were asked was specifically about teams though. So for you to deny it was about teams now doesn't read well to me.
I also really dislike his voting history: Kabazame and Jey are lenient townreads of mine. I don't like his readlist either. I don't like how when I asked him to go in-depth because he had no interaction with those players, he gave a bit more, but really nothing I found substantial. I didn't like his townread on Zionite, one that had the disclaimer of "having no basis". And, I didn't like how he later rescinded that and got scumvibes from Zionite for "white-knighting", yet stayed true to his townread on Zionite?
Some things strike me as contradictory here.
Kabazame vs Grapefruit feels unaligned to me.
It's optimal to get a claim from Zionite before a lynch there, but enh. A claim from grapefruit would suffice.
Vote: Grapfruit21
L-3
Vote: Grapefruit21
If I was in anti spew wouldn't it make more sense for me to stay on the Kabazame wagon rather than moving to a new one?
Vote Zionite
We have a little more than a day if we want to CFD.
She posts a lot of fluff, and keeps saying for a long time that there’s no base to her reads. At first she says she is good at reading players but bad at explaining reads, which is fine. But then she says she doesn’t know why EL / Shadow are scum. Which isn’t ok. There’s a big difference between not being able to express your reasons and not having reasons at all.
One sentence that bugs me is this one: “Shadow and EL arguing is nothing. There's no content or reads. Nobody is trying to scum-hunt, it's just a pillow fort battle. If one or both are scum, this is excellent fake content.”
How can it be fake content if only one of them flips scum?
She talks too much about connections with EL and not enough about EL himself.
When she finally makes the case under pressure, she starts by explaining how he’s town to then switch to scum again, calling every town tell she saw before “bull*****”.
In that same post she’s setting up Grapefruit as next lynch. It’s funny how she went from Blues being lowhanging fruit that EL is voting to Blues (Grape) is the next lynch.
Also she goes from having to reread Kabazame to calling him scum without explanation. I assume simply because he's her counterwagon, but I should look closer to the votes and order of votes to get a grasp on that.
vote: JeY K
Study Latin/Toastboy
EL
Rod/Zion/Tubba/Rhand/Shadow
??????/LnGrrR/Anak/Pa Tennis/Vaimes
Kaba
Jey
Scum
Study and Toastboy are playing similar games taking indepth looks at just about everything and coming to reasonable conclusions. I don't agree with every conclusion they have but they are both playing logically and clearly. And have reacted comfortably when pressured over their reads.
Lurker for similar reasons. Only reason I'm not including him in the top group is I'm worried about the way he's preemptively drawing associations. Again I don't agree with everything he's said (his read on Kaba for instance) but it's being given in a way that seems unlikely to come from scum. Also again mostly like the way he's reacted to what little pressure he's been under.
Rodemy, Shadow, and Zionite all gave me weak town vibes based on tone. With Zionite I liked the way he was snapping back at Lurker earlier. I also have good feelings because our reads have lined up. He's this low because I am worried about the lack of detail. Makes it hard to grok his motivations. Shadow is just above null. There is a [redacted] tell that makes me more confident in him being town than random but I don't want to share it at this stage. And I've discussed Rod elsewhere.
I am sheeping the argument put forth by Study on Tubba.
I like Rhand's latest post reading Jey. The part about Jey focusing on EL's connections over EL's behavior was a nice catch that I hadn't seen written out like that before. Obviously not a ton to go on, but I like that last post.
The next 4 I don't have a read on one way or another. I have opinions on a few of their posts, but not enough to have a strong feeling one way or another on any of them.
Kaba and Jey are my two most likely to be scum. With Kaba I'm not sure how much of my read is based on me being unable to reset after being in the tunnel vs. still finding Toast's case persuasive. Tunnel's are bad yo.
Jey feels like the best bet at a scum flip.
Grapefruit21 - 6 (Anaklusmos, Kabazame, EternalLurker, Pa Tennis, Vaimes, Study Latin)
JeY k - 3 (Tubba Fett, Grapefruit21, Rhand)
Kabazame - 2 (LnGrrrR, JeY k)
Killjoy - 1 (Rodemy)
Zionite - 1 (shadowlancerx)
Not Voting - 3 (Killjoy, Toastboy, Zionite)
With 16 alive it takes 9 votes to lynch
@Toastboy: Your vote in #454 was not counted. Please do not put the full stop inside the bold tags
24 hours to the deadline!
Too many votes in no man's land here.
@Rodemy, Shadow, KJ and Zionite: are you opposed to a Jey K, Grape and Kabazame lynch?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
The first four are RVS and "how to pronounce my name" posts
First serious post, and a vote on EL because... she's upset about being pushed out of RVS? Kind of a weird reason to vote, but it's still so *shrug*.
I'm not getting the alarm bells JeY is on that question, but whatever. I don't think it's a scummy or townie, though the implication that it's scummy feels off to me. (Note: EL answers next post by noting that JeY comodded the recently ended Apocalypse game and assumed she knew the community due to that.)
Not a lot to this one, other than the Star Wars-ish "bad feelings".
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
If I had more time, I would detail why, but I don't.
OP says if we don't reach a majority eco pretends nonvoters don't exist and checks again. So unvoting is better than parking offwagon. Just fyi.
By the way, I'm moving on Wednesday and will be gone probably the entire first day of day 2. Just want that out there
Tubba: As a new player, his lower skill level SHOULD make him easy to read. He's being very cautious, however. I feel like this isn't a town mindset here. Being scared of being wrong, and being judged by that is much more likely to come from scum (not wanting to fail your team, the inherent stress of being scum and trying to avoid getting caught, etc) than a town one (maybe just being uncomfortable sharing?). And he kinda stopped posting after he got attention (obviously we don't know if that was the cause, but maybe). I'm not gonna convince anyone to lynch him in 24hrs so I'll revisit this tomorrow.
Grapefruit: As I mentioned earlier, BlueEclipse's question post is suspect to me because it felt hollow, as if he didn't actually care about the answers (obviously due to already knowing everyone's alignments), and then he replaced out (which is more of a personal reason for scumreading, as I've seen more scum than not replace out early game). Then Grapefruit came in, and said his predecessor was obvtown (which I've argued against) and just saying that shows an odd mindset for town. When replacing into a game, giving your judgment of someone you have the alignment information already for is not something people really think to do as town. Town generally wants to tell us what OTHER people's alignments are.
This post, where he responds to Kaba is also giving me feelings. His call of OMGUS makes me feel like that is kind of an afterthought. Like he's trying to justify a read he didn't actually have before being called out on it. And his... disdain? I guess would be the word for what I'm reading here towards Anak attacking him for a weak reason just seems off. "You made someone attack me" isn't something town thinks. It's just not. Hm. I'd be ok with a Grape lynch today.
Kaba: Post 191 seems like townie frustration. And nothing is giving me scumvibes from his ISO.
Jey: Obivously the fluff in the beginning of the game is questionable. I also agree with LngrrR that his vote on Lurker because he dislikes RVS (or so it appears) is weird. Posts 96-97 "Everyone is getting town reads from Lurker, and I don't buy it, not yet" is a language thing. I feel like this should read "I don't UNDERSTAND it" instead of needing to be sold on a read if town.
I'm wondering if the carefree nature of her posts are throwing me though.
So.
Vote Grapefruit
I'd be less ok with Jey, but wouldn't hate it. Kaba is giving me good feelings in general, so I'll say he is good for today.
EDIT: keep this wall as short as possible*
EL's #351: This is a fine response in the first part. Okay. You say you have no problem making all of these statements but I got the notion that you were skimming under the radar since I would assume screaming about gaining towncred does more harm than good. Not very nonsensical to point out as an observation.
The second part, the 'double bus' comes from you and Kabazame both wanting to lynch Grapefruit.
EL's #357: Making me sound more crazy than I actually am. Die, scum.
EL's #363: This post to Kabazame is really weird to me. What town mindset?
EL's #413 EL saving his buddy by pointing out the obvious. Yes, he was asked to share his reads, but nothing about this convinces me that Kabazame is town. You can be logically consistent and behaviorally consistent as scum.
EL's 418: Sure EL can call something one his scumreads says townie and it's fine -shrug- Hang JeY if that ***** does it though.
EL's 435: You also forgot that I also suspected Kabazame and multiple people INCLUDING YOURSELF have questioned why I think Grapefruit and Kabazame are aligned [as scum]. Are you serious right now?
I really didn't want to spend a lot of time justifying the Kabazame vote because I have so little to spend, but here we go. I used the post that came after because I didn't have the opportunity to go back and find examples and struggle even more explain my feelings that are obvious to me in something that satisfies anyone in terms of a concrete reasoning. The post Kabazame made after my vote basically had the same vibe I've been getting all game.
But apparently you skipped that post, like the 'double bus power' post where you skipped me elaborating right after exactly what I meant. I'm assuming you missed it anyway.
You want to know why I'm not trying anymore? Because I am trying but it's so god damn difficult to know what I know and be able to convey that in terms everyone relates to. What I'm great at: reading people and knowing exactly who they are. What I'm bad at: explaining why these behaviors/patterns I see are indicative of alignment. So now I just look like an ass pushing pressure on people and never justifying it.
I hope people start ******* believing me when I flip town.
Also your 435 is another post oozing of scum behavior. Just saying.
LnGrrrR's 352: This is what I'm trying to get at while pushing EL's lynch. I have the same feeling.
Zionite's 356:I read them as scummy individually. What makes them so obviously unaligned to you? Because that's what I don't see.
Zionite's #415: Mixed feelings about this post, but overall it feels genuine.
Grapefruit's 379: Particularly the last statement: Zionite's post was weird but I disagree with the defending bit, I feel like there was something else he was accomplishing there.
Toastboy's 383: Solid push on Kabazame. Toast has probably been the main reason I paid more attention to Kabazame.
Vaimes's 401: Something is odd about this whole interaction. I like Zionite a lot less after that. I don't have anything concrete to give but I'm inspired to go back and look at him much more.
Kabazame's 405: This seems incredibly scummy. He's trying to use a fake get out of jail free card. This doesn't read to me as genuine at all.
406: I don't think Kabazame is believing what he's saying here.
409: Can someone explain to me how this interaction clearly shows that Grapefruit and Kabazame are definitely 100% unaligned? I don't see it.
Kabazame's 429/430: Another case of Kabazame saying something, but I don't get the impression that he believes his own words. Trying really hard to call me scum for this. These posts still make me cringe.
Kabazame's 437: OOPS GUESS I MOVED MY VOTE DEAL WITH IT
shadowlancerx's 463: Thank you for being sensible here
---
Vaimes does some good stuff. Their posts past few days don't concern me. Solid town-read. I still didn't flick Iso's nose.
---
shadowlancerx feels like a non-entity this game, to me. Maybe I'm not paying enough attention in general but I'm not enjoying that notion. Him, after Zionite, will be worth going back to look into.
---
Don't know what 'logical inconsistencies' there are in so many of my posts that people are pointing out? What the hell about my posts is fluff?
---
Who will honestly be surprised that I flip town if I'm lynched toDay?
EDIT: T/S list will come later, I need food
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
And by going through the motions, this is the point at which Grapefruit would claim, no?
Vote: Grapefruit21
L-1. Deal with it.
Jey became a stronger read than Kaba when I reevaluated the interaction with Zionite about town hunting. I had thought Kaba was arguing against town hunting. That wasn't the case.
@Grape: I swear to God if you're Nachoing me I'm gonna be mad.
I don't know what that means.
Zionite (1): shadow (#464)
Kaba (2): LnGR (#276), JeyK (#426)
JeyK (3): TubbaF (#247), Rhand (#466), Toast (#471)
BlueGrape (8): EL (#190), Anak (#234), Kaba (#236), PaT (#272), Vaimes (#373), StudyL (#460), Killjoy (#479), BlueGrape (#483)
Abstaining (1): Zionite
---
Hm. Pa is townreading everyone up to Killjoy? With what I've read, I could buy that, sans Anak. Dude feels like white noise to me whenever I play with him (no offense).
Jey might be buddying me, help.
I'm sick and town of town self voting out of frustration.
I AM SICK AND TIRED OF IT.
If you're town, which I can't help but think is the case with that self vote, then shame on you, but I'm don't with it, and I will be policy voting anyone who self votes in any scenario that is not LyLo from here on out. Townies continuing to do this is going to make it an okay scum tactic and I'm not going to stand for it.
Anyway I garnered enough scum reads that it would take more effort than I was able to give to not be a crucial mislynch down the line, if i had survived toDay. Pretty sure this lynch is a good mislybch for town because I am pretty sure that of the many people pushing my slot some were just town in a tunnel and this should help refocus them. Don't trust my reads they suck.
If Grape flips town, Iim pretty sure Study is town too. Making a post like this as scum, knowing that your premise is wrong, would be extremely ballsy.
Shadow is town.
[B]V/LA until next Saturday[b] Heading to Paris tomorrow until Friday.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Grapefruit21 - 9 (Anaklusmos, Kabazame, EternalLurker, Pa Tennis, Vaimes, Study Latin, Killjoy, Grapefruit21, shadowlancerx)
JeY k - 3 (Tubba Fett, Rhand, Toastboy)
Kabazame - 2 (LnGrrrR, JeY k)
Killjoy - 1 (Rodemy)
Not Voting - 1 (Zionite)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A hushed argument concludes in a number of fingers being pointed. The recipient points his finger at himself in resignation and walks up to the definitely not snoozing Chief Justice.
"We, er, think we've got one, sir."
One eye opens. With a gesture, the suspect is beckoned forward, dragged into the limelight by the mob. He is invited to state his name for the "court"
"Obadiah Whitebeard, yer honour" he replies, his gruff voice tinged with worry. The name is scratched onto a piece of parchment, the Chief Justice's lips mouthing out the syllables as they are recorded.
"Obadiah Whitebeard, you have been found guilty of grand conspiracy to commit regicide and blah blah blah sentenced to death."
A quick nudge to the daydreaming executioner, and the noose is hastily assembled. Obadiah eyes it with scepticism.
"You lot call this an execution? A quick snap of the neck in the noose? Why, back in my day we'd have had to provide a noose ourselves and it'd have been made of coarse hemp, not this silky modern tripe. And those would only have been for the wealthy. If you couldn't afford a noose you'd have to pay a smaller fee for rent of a chicken for the day and find a cousin with a sword or farm implement and then, after having walked to the execution yard (through the snow, real snow, not this poxy dust you kids have), you'd hand over both to the executioner who would produce his own chicken and...."
His mouth is still moving as his neck breaks cleanly. Thank goodness for modern execution techniques.
Grapefruit21 has been lynched. He was Obadiah Whitebeard - Town Vanilla
Obadiah Whitebeard - Town Vanilla
“The problem with kids these days”, you begin. You roll the words around your mouth. They are familiar, comforting. You take a swig of your horn of ale as you ponder your follow up. What is the problem with kids these days? Lack of work ethic? New fangled technology? Lawn occupation?
“They don’t know what’s good for them.” An old classic.
“Why when I was a boy, our shack was a single room, wi’ more animals than people, and I ‘ad sixteen brothers! I had to work three jobs one after the other, for only tuppence a week. And when we came ‘ome, our da would beat us with his belt. On a good day!”
The best thing about parties is the captive audience. Well, second best after the free ale. Ah, but back then you’d have dreamed of a pint of ale. You were more used to ‘aving cold gravel mixed with water - and that was a luxury! You’d only get a reward like that if you’d scraped out the water butt even if it wasn’t your turn to sleep in it.
But you try telling that to the youth of t’day all that, and they just wouldn’t believe you.
It is now Night 1, which will last for approximately 72 hours. If you have an ability you choose not to use, please tell me explicitly.
You are summoned back to the main hall by some very grumpy armed men. They jostle and push you, totally uncaring of your pounding hangover. Some breakfast has been prepared, but on closer inspection the fried eggs are leftover from the feast, and the bacon looks a little too much like cardboard dipped in fat for your liking. Still, any port of call in a storm (god, did you have port? Is that why you feel so filthy?) and choke some down.
That turns out to have been a mistake, as a corpse is dragged into the hall. His head is a mess of red and has left a long, sticky trail across the floor. The conspiracy is not only still at large, but is accelerating its timetable.
The Chief Justice grimly identifies the body, before having it dragged away. You are suspicious that it is being dragged in the direction of the kitchen.
Rhand has been killed. He was Charles Cabbage - Town Inventor. World renowned for his unreliable and creatively dangerous gadgets, his death comes as a grim reminder that there are some very bad people in this hall. And judging by the mess of Rhand's head, bad people who own some very sharp knives.
Charles Cabbage - Town Inventor
Careful now…concentrate…
Your hand is completely steady as you delicately insert the final cog into the intricate mechanism. It slides into place with a barely audible *click*.
You relax and exhale, realising that you have been holding your breath. The faint, rhythmic ticking tells you it’s finished. You wind the handle and gently lift the lid.The tiny figurine begins to twirl. No music plays, but a high-pitched ringing seems to come from everywhere at once. You frown, and then every window within a hundred yards shatters.
You are Charles Cabbage, engineer and inventor extraordinaire. Your mastery with everything from clockwork to landscaping is unique, which might be because nothing you make actually works precisely as intended. Not that you let that stop you. If anything, it motivates you to new heights of creativity.
Abilities
Test Subjects:You have a number of interesting items in your possession. Each Night, you may give one of them to a player of your choice, which will grant them a 1-shot ability. You may not use these abilities yourself. These items and the abilities they grant are:
Spectacles (One Shot) - Intended to remedy shortness of vision, they are rather over enthusiastic in their application, providing incredible magnification. At Night, you may target a player and track them. You will be told who they target that Night if any (but not with what ability).
Seven-League Boots (One Shot) - Constructed out of a very sturdy pair of boots lashed to small metal tubes and a theoretically survivable amount of gunpowder, Seven-League Boots are intended to allow the wearer to travel huge distances in a single stride in as few pieces as possible. Sadly, they don’t actually allow an entire seven leagues of movement, but they do allow for very rapid relocation. During the Night, you may utilise your extra boost of speed to bodyguard target player and intercept any kills attempts made against them.
Sleeping Potion (One Shot) - Alchemy is a delicate art, full of subtleties and careful checks and balances. This sleeping potion, for example should gently take the user into refreshing, dreamless sleep. It should also be a deep purple. It is, in fact, lurid orange. This belies a key misunderstanding in the creator of how much “a pinch” consist of. During the Night, you may (very carefully) throw the vial of sleeping potion within the room of target player. It will explode with a deafening blast of sound and light, roleblocking them and preventing them from taking any action that Night.
Doorstop (One Shot) - An innocuous looking doorstop, who knows what effect it will have on the unwitting victim? Secret note - it’s just a doorstop. This ability does nothing. The Recipient will not be informed.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It is now Day 2, which will last approximate two weeks: ending at 2100 GMT on Wednesday 23rd August.
With 14 alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch.
vote killjoy
BlueGrape Wagon
Grapefruit21 - 9 (Anaklusmos, Kabazame, EternalLurker, Pa Tennis, Vaimes, Study Latin, Killjoy, Grapefruit21, shadowlancerx)
Second vote is consistant with his previous vote, and provides good reasoning.
Pa then comes back to vote Grape later because his read on Rodemy snapvoting Jey being town was fake. Obviously in hindsight it wasn't, but looking over the language of this reasoning, there's not really a way to tell that Pa knew that it wasn't fake. Also it's not inconsistant with his previous votes (like scum might do potentially). So that second vote is ok.
First vote still bad though.
And that last quote where he said Grape was obvious scum, obviously he needs to qualify that now.
Anak's conviction seems false.
Grapefruit This is where GF selfvoted.
Probably town, in the context of vote analysis, and independent of my personal read.
In order from worst to best: Anak, Pa (depends on his explanation that i asked for, may move him), Shadow? (doesn't give a reason, but his attitude could come from town?), Vaimes, Latin, Kaba
Other Mentions worth mentioning
This little poke at Blue is one I don't like. She never revisits it, though.
Which ones are you questioning specifically?
I still think Zion is scum but I'm not as confident in any of my reads anymore. Hm
I think I talked plenty about why Grape was scum. Have also talked about my townreads. See here.
Though I don't think I mentioned Vaimes. Meta read because he posted instead of retreating into catchup mode.
Do you have a response to this? Or did you give it privately?
@Pa
Why killjoy? If you've covered can you link post or post number(s)?
I'll post more when I'm out of work.
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤