As an advanced and sophisticated society, Sonaslanders treat everyone equally and seek to avoid stereotyping. As the saying goes “Judge not a book by its cover, lest the book take offence and knock your block off”.
LnGrrrR, shrouded in black robes, heavy eyeliner, skull iconography, and fondling a gleaming ritual blood-magic dagger stretches such social politeness to its limit.
Eventually, a timid voice raises the question everyone was too embarrassed to ask:
“Uh, could the, uh, Necromancer maybe just be a Bad Guy perhaps?”
LnGrrrR looks up from the pentagram inscribed on the floor in blood, the corpse of a hamster flopping loosely in his hand. He looks shocked and offended, but the murmurs have already begun to circulate. Buoyed by their success of using more straightforward criteria to root out conspirators, a noose is around LnGrrrR’s neck before he can even begin an incantation (that would probably have been evil)
As LnGrrrR’s neck snaps, a terrible howl goes up. Dozens of tiny zombie hamsters squeak and skitter as their master dies, finally released from their infernal servitude.
LnGrrrR has been lynched. He was Evan, the Necromancer - Mafia Redirector
Evan, the Necromancer - Mafia Redirector
Black robes drape across you; incense hangs in the haze. The foul incantation poisons the air as it slithers from your lips. The blood markings on the floor glow with otherworldly malice. With a crescendo, the ritual is complete. The creature that was dead twitches and moves with unholy life as you cackle madly.
The hamster makes a squeak that sounds like sandpaper and begins to unevenly wander around. You pick it up and put it in the cage with the rest, shuffling and bumping into each other.
Being a necromancer is tough when it’s illegal. Corpses are heavily guarded and even being in a graveyard at night can cost a one-way trip to the slammer. But you keep your skills sharp by practising on whatever animal corpses you can get ahold of. The pet shop is starting to ask questions, but you pay well enough to not have to answer. You were once a powerful force that inspired fear and awe, now you are reduced to hiding in your mother’s basement. She doesn’t understand that you have a job, it just isn’t legal.
So when you were approached by Maldorvo to conspire against the king, you leapt for it. Maldorvo understands the old ways. He knows that a powerful necromancer by his side would project his power and authority. Really, all you want is your freedom back, and if you get some revenge for your humiliation on the way - well, you wouldn’t want all that evil-laughter practise to go to waste, would you?
Abilities: Black Magick (2 shots): Twice during the game, at Night, you may choose two players. Any abilities the first uses will target the second instead of their original target. The person using the abilities will be informed that their target was changed and to whom.
It is now Night 4, which will last 72 hours and will end on Tuesday 3rd October.
Almost right on cue, like an ageing actor trying to assert himself to a younger director, the sun rises. After so many days battled a conspiracy, the castle is littered with detritus. Tables and chairs overturned, crockery litters the floor. Weird blood stains from where bodies have lain and subsequently been dragged converge on the entrance to the kitchen. The skeletons of tiny zombie hamsters crunch underfoot. Eggs stick grotesquely to the wall, placed there in protest.
By this point, the headcount takes place out of routine rather than any expectation that everyone would be there. True to form, the count comes up one short. Kabazame is missing. He is found face down in a far flung corridor, his precious clipboard nearby. He was such a brave officer of the law, truly excelling in...his field. Performing invaluable duties such as, well, we don't need to list them. Clearly they were vital, as he was always so terribly busy.
The clipboard is speedily hidden before the chef can try and serve it as stale toast.
Kabazame has been killed. He was Segreant Robert "Bob" Hodge - Town Cop
Sergeant Robert “Bob” Hodge - Town Cop
You have been in the city watch for most of your life. You have been a sergeant almost as long. You are, really, a natural born sergeant: innately talented at keeping your head down and doing just enough to appear busy without actually achieving anything important. You do your duty diligently: you are the master of delegation, the emperor of ticking things off of a completely empty clipboard. People can never say you did a bad job, but they are also mysteriously very reluctant to ask you to do it again.
As a long-lasting member of middle management, you end up in charge of a lot of valuable organisational tasks. That’s how you find yourself on duty inside the main feasting hall. You have also spent years honing the ability to appear to the casual observer to be alert and ready for action while also surreptitiously deeply involved in a large pie.
Abilities: Cop Shot (1-shot): Once during the game at Night, you may investigate target player and learn their alignment (guaranteed sane). Because you feel very strongly about the idea of doing more work than is absolutely necessary, you will lose your shot of this ability when a member of the Mafia is killed.
I believe the last two scum are Jey and Killjoy (and because I can't resist making this joke "JK and KJ"). I'm going to prove this to you now and then we are going to win the game.
Vote Jey
If for some reason anyone prefers a KJ lynch first then fine, but I will not lynch outside of those two. PROOFLng
Still V/LA, but Vote JeY K. She spent all day calling Eternal scummy and was the only person she even tried to push on, but she gave up on it pretty quickly. Also, if JeY K flips scum, it all but confirms Shadow too. Look at all the early posts where she throws suspicion at Shadow, but then walks it back.
[snip]
Still unsure of Kabazame, but I like JeY K less right now. Scum is somewhere in JeY, Shadow, Eternal, Kabazame, and Rodemy, but of all these, I think JeY has been the most active while doing the least.
Huge preflip association here. And that second paragraph basically has to contain at least one buddy.
Two of my towniest reads arent posting and that sucks. Also, how many posts has Rodemy posted? I know I haven't played on here in like 2 years, but when I last played I felt like people can skate by lurking here for two or three Days. If Rodemy is scum, he has 2 "free" Days where we can't analyse his posts.
@Terry, not sure how much you've read, but I feel like either you or JeyK has to be scum. I was leaning JeyK D2, but switched over to your slot D3, mainly due to Lurker's attacks on JeyK. When you get done with your readthrough and tell us your explanation of the gamestate, please go into detail on JeyK yourself.
Moves over to Terry, trying to salvage Jey at this point.
If we aren't asking an extension, I ask everyone to list their top 3 lynch candidates, REGARDLESS of how likely you think that lynch is toDay. We can work that out later.
1) Lurker/Cantrip/Terry
2) Pa Tennis
3) Tubba Fett
Without pushing the slot even close to how he pushed Jey, suddenly Terry is top lynch candidate and Jey isn't even on this list.
Re: the EL slot, I feel like we need to figure out whether JeY or EL is scum. I highly doubt their battle was TvT, and I am leaning towards JeY being town. It's likely that slot is unlynchable toDay, but I think it's best to put cards on the table anyways.
I'm not seeing any real progression on why Jey is now town. Maybe because EL would have fought harder than Lng could have dealt with and cantrip was nonexistent, so now he sees and opportunity to sneak in the mislynch.
Ok my other game just ended, so I should be able to commit more time to this one. Gonna look over Pa Tennis, Anak and Killjoy.
Probably the rule of 3, I'd be pretty surprised if a buddy wasn't in here. (And Tom/Anak are both pretty darn likely to be town in a vacuum anyway)Tubba
@ Kabazame
I'm waffling here, to be honest. You didn't want to vote randomly, which seemed town, but aside from some casual mudslinging (I.e. Study Latin) you don't seem to be really pushing anything/anyone. Looking at both of those actions has me wondering if you're just trying to fly under the radar.
@ JeY
I'm torn on the Eternal question. I've been getting town vibes because he seems to be putting in the work, but it's almost like he's putting in too much. Can you elaborate on your "pillow-fort" theory?
@ Blues
I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that I'm trusting anyone player more than another. My posts asking for clarity were addressed to everyone, and in some cases, seconded by others curious about the same things. I'll be grateful and appreciative of any help I receive, but I understand that anyone could have an ulterior motive for doing so.
Rule of 3 here, and Tubba being new makes it even more likely to be accurate.
Ugh, this game is using the picky auto-votecount thing.
---
Just from skimming this page, I think Grapefruit and JeyK are town, and Study Latin is going overboard on the questions to the point where it seems like he's just doing it to look busy/involved.
I'm probably not gonna have a substantial read on Rodemy ever.
Vote Study Latin
More when I'm actually informed. Goodnight.
I'm looking forward to your insights on these points, especially since they seem to differ from the common pov. In particular, your town read on JeY interests me, because I've pegged her for scum. However, as a new player I'm open to other opinions. (Reasoned, and explained, of course)
"I've started bussing a buddy, maybe your reasoning can help me convincingly get out of it?"
This where I'm at right now, and since it took almost an hour to type out on my phone, I see a bunch of new posts. So with a few grains of salt...
[snip]
SCUM
GF21: I didn't have a good read on Blues, but Grapefruit's entry post claiming town feels bad, and by basically rehashing the feed and adding no new thoughts, except for a dubious claim that Rodemy is town, basing that claim on Rodemy being essentially unreadable is also troublesome for me.
Shadow: Right now, it's a guilty by association thing for me. JeY seems to be really on board with a town read for Shadow, which based on how I'm reading her, makes me suspicious. Shadow and JeY also seemed to be working on a tunnel for Eternal that seems to have fizzled out.
JeY: The more I read JeY, the worse I feel. "Guy feelings" seem like an excuse to toss out scum and town reads without needing to back them up. The push for a lynch, and then backing off when interest seemed low is off to me. Followed by a post that seems to be fine with an early mislynch, not getting good vibes.
That read on me is hot garbage; it's literally just using the same preflip association to get me lynched after Jey.
@Vaimes
I'm willing to accept that my ability to read players in this game is flawed. Can you expand on why you think JeY is town based on what she's posted? I'm not understanding your vote count analysis as a way to clear her.
Again, this isn't "I want to mislynch this townie", it's "Can you give me a reason to town read my buddy".
Ah, also forgot: JeyK's vote on Eternal is semi-useless because we know she wants to lynch EternalLurker, as she has since early D1. By continuing to keep her vote on there, she isn't putting any new information into the thread, and I think she has proven that she can't push a good case against Eternal. So nothing is gained, and continuing to repeat various versions of "Scummy but I can't put my finger on it" won't help.
My vote 1) got his attention and 2) signifies I am willing to lynch him, which I think is new information.
I read this and realised it could apply to me as well. By focusing on JeY, I've been ignoring other players.
I'm not moving my vote for previously stated reasons, but I am going to pull back and look over things to see what else is going on.
Since we know it's a scum on scum interaction, look at how Jey is being treated. Lng gives no indication that Tubba should back off Jey, but that's his response?
I've been trying to lynch JeY for two days now. Can anyone tell me why we shouldn't? Latin, you've stated that you're sure JeY will flip town. Why? Vote JeY
This lacks incredulity, like he really feels like he's asking why she shouldn't be lynched rather than implying that she should.
He ends with a few posts to pizza talking about Jey and also taking heat.Jey
I will say that I really, really think that Lurker is town. He's just so... open. In a heart on his sleeve kinda way.And in a way I like.
This is how I became the last surviving scum in a game before getting PoE'd because I claimed vanilla. I said this already but I don't buy it.
[snip]
After all of this time I still don't know how I should pronounce LnGrrrR.
"Hey KJ, don't cut off a mislynch."
First mention of Lng, absolutely nothing about him read wise.
@Tubba Fett Once EternalLurker started stirring up some trouble and getting immediate towncred, all he's done since is defend himself against people. Scum love to coast, defending yourself doesn't really take much effort and it doesn't scum-hunt.
vote JeY
Sticking to my guns for now.
The back and forth on EL isn't the problem, it's more the timing of it. Also, finding "gut feelings" suspicious. Makes me wonder if you have inside information?
JeY: The more I read JeY, the worse I feel. "Guy feelings" seem like an excuse to toss out scum and town reads without needing to back them up. The push for a lynch, and then backing off when interest seemed low is off to me. Followed by a post that seems to be fine with an early mislynch, not getting good vibes.
What backpedaling? When did I renounce my scum-read of EternalLurker? When did I even move my vote or announce a scummier read? I remember saying that additional pressure won't add anything to the game. I also remember saying I'm trying to back them up but it's difficult for me.
Responses to Tubba. It's all counter questions designed to push him off of her rather than actually address what he's saying. It's playing dumb, and gives no indication that she cares about his alignment.
@EL, yeah, but you are acting like the only info we will have is at the end of D1. Trying to predict what happens D2, D3, etc is dumb.
@Rodemy/Rhand/Zionite, isnt town hunting a scumtell?
Lingerererer (LnGrrrR I have officially decided on the pronunciation I was debating earlier, if you don't like it I'll stop ), why did you ask those three people in particular?
Also I feel like the statement you're giving to EL here is important but I'm having trouble deciphering it, exactly. I feel like him going on about being potentially nightkilled seems scummy, but driving focus to a point about chain-reading which I don't exactly agree with, but I don't know what you're saying here.
Jey's response to Lng feels like asking a buddy to avoid defending her lynch target. Also notice how she seems inquisitive about someone being tied to her, rather than incredulous.
@Tubba Fett Your recent posts suggest I haven't responded to you yet, when I actually did. It was a two word response so probably easy to miss. It was my post before my latest reply to EternalLurker.
No meat to this interaction. If someone was scum reading me and they weren't closely reading my posts I'd get suspicious. But instead she gives him an out.
This is the response you're referencing? Where you pretend to not know what I'm talking about? Where you ignore all the questions and concerns rhand brought up? Yeah, it was pretty easy to miss, but I'll gladly bring it back to light.
Are you paying attention? You asked if I had a response to Rhand's case. My answer, for now the third time (including your quote): "I don't [have a response to Rhand's post]".
Pretend to not know what you're talking about? I'm asking you to clarify. How the hell would I speak to Rhand privately? Are you aware that doing so is against the rules? You can clearly see he's not a Mason/Neighbor, which means two townies can talk privately outside the game.
She's playing dumb here, and the frustration matches that of someone who feels unjustly bussed.
Ok, I actually wasn't really aware of that, but I'm implying you killed or had him killed last night as your response to his post.
That's cute, but I can't kill. If I could, EternalLurker (sans being bulletproof) would've died last Night.
This whole interaction is just O.o
Like Tubba not being aware of what masons are is irrelevant, and then Jey being like "if I could kill I would have killed EL, because the only way I could kill would be if I was a vig" is just so forced.
@Lurker, I feel like you want it both ways. You want credit for JeY when she flips scum, but if you can save that for toMorrow and work another mislynch today, then people will think you're "confirmed town" and I am probably not a strong enough player to convince town otherwise.
Speaking of Rodemy, is he V/LA? If so, how long? His lurkiness is making me paranoid.
Found this post next to the Jey post I am about to quote, but this is Lng keeping EL open as scum even if Jey was to flip scum. Also the random sharing of Rodemy again makes me think he's not scum.
@LnGrrrR I had original bad feelings but nothing to quantify them with and more posts gave me a better idea and I don't feel they're scum. I will say the one thing that will quantify my town read of shadowlancerx is after my gunslinging with EternalLurker earlier I realized how he must have felt before and I think that reaction incredibly difficult to fabricate as scum, and I actually whispered to myself IRL 'oh my gosh I am so sorry for doubting you shadow'.
This hits me in the feels. I included this because so far it's the only thing that gives me real pause. I don't think I'm wrong, but if I am, this is the post I should have listened to. And Jey, assuming you're scum, this is a fantastic post.
Gonna go ahead and sheep shadow in saying jey should talk about other things.
Specifically killjoy.
Ask and you shall receive:
D1:
My general feel so far is that he seems to be on the sidelines a lot. He interacts, asks and answers questions, and gives his thoughts and knows/makes it clear who he wants to lynch but I feel like he's avoiding as much attention as possible, unlike you [Pa Tennis], who seems to make everyone (including me) want to take a closer look at you. I'm not sure who else besides you has been pushing Killjoy or trying to bring him more into the spotlight and I don't have time for a bigger re-read, do you know off-hand who else is pushing him or trying to get him noticed more?
I think this behavior is indicative of scum but I'm not confident in the read yet. I'll sleep on this one.
One solid thought I do have though, if Killjoy is town, I definitely think you're scum.
D2:
Killjoy is definitely more involved now. Maybe after being called out, he's shaping up, and I don't think I can use that to determine alignment. My initial reaction is it seems scummy, adjust play to to avoid suspicion? I don't even buy that myself.
I'm not crazy about a Killjoy lynch toDay.
There is a mindset disconnect here; most of this analysis seems like Jey thinks KJ could reasonably be scum, but then she declares that she isn't crazy about lynching him. (A few posts later she votes Zionite over KJ, saying she really isn't up for lynching him.)
I'm on the 'newb town' ship. I mean I've played a few games and I already think they're way better than I am, even if I don't agree with their reads.
I've been wanting to bring this up though, that my mafia games are always polarized. I either do extremely well or extremely poorly. I'm feeling the latter here but I'm not giving up yet because the point of a game is to have fun.
"He's totes newb!town, except he's better than me...except his reads are waaaay bad. Also I might be 100% wrong and that's just cause I'm sometimes bad at this game." (Jey I don't mean any offense by this, I just think you're scum)
I'm not shadowlancerx, but I decided to be nosey.
post #67 was a really long time ago, so I went back and read it, and then I realized I didn't remember what shadowlancerx and Tubba Fett were debating about in the first place besides the Grapefruit hammer and came back to this page.
Tubba is reaching incredibly hard for this. I don't think shadowlancerx is misconstruing anything, but legitimately calling out EternalLurker. Tubba talks about twisting things for narrative while twisting things for narrative :\
This is another one, but I kinda think it was an attempt both to pocket me, and make me look like her buddy.
Something I probably should've done yesterday instead. If I wasn't driving around that time I would've definitely switched my vote.
---
Doc is dead? Game is going downhill fast.
I just don't believe this. There is no consistency with her read on KJ. Also the comment about the doc being dead lacks the emotion it is attempting to portray.
I'm fairly sure you were town reading me before. What changed, Jey?
In this post post I'm hesitant to lynch you but I clearly don't say 'you're town'. I draw connection to you and Pa Tennis, which is why you might have thought that.
This is really awkward and comes down to semantics.
@Killjoy I'm not pushing his lynch though - you said specifically I'm trying to get him lynched and I merely brought up a thought I had. Nobody else thinks what I said was suspicious, so I can safely dismiss that thought. It didn't start a discussion so I'm letting it go because it really wasn't something that pinged me "OMG KABAZAME IS UNDOUBTEDLY SCUM". If you're really going to argue this with me I'll let you borrow my shovel.
---
Turns out there's been... nearly nothing in two days. I really want Cantrip to post. I think it's really important for this game given EternalLurker's impact. If you're lurking on purpose I'll make sure you never get away with it in a game ever again, assuming I play more.
---
I think I need to do what Toastboy is doing in order to try and re-align my thinking because the longer this drags out the less confident i get in any reads. Toastboy, if I give you a second set of eyes, was there anything high-level you remember sticking out that could use a little more in-depth care that you might not have posted already?
How this reads to me:
"Killjoy, stop bussing me over something stupid, no one else is pushing me for that!"
And
"Hey Mr. Townie, can you give me some townie things to do for you so I can be townie cause I'm a townie?"
Yeah but.. you made it out to be a big deal. You could say that without claiming. Like. I claimed a goat. NAI.
But instead you are hiding it as if it effects the game...
You're the one making it out to be a big deal, actually. I just said it was funny, and that I'd explain why later.
Except she did at least twice push back on Rodemy asking her about this and said she couldn't say. Using flavor to make a joke is one thing, but she's been cagey about it.
I'm going through some stuff and found this post which explains why Pa Tennis is scum if Killjoy is town and he continued to say I'm claiming that for no reason still.
I'm okay with a Pa Tennis lynch toDay
So...Jey hasn't really indicated any reason to back off of her now scum read onto KJ, and she says Tom is scum if KJ is town, and her solution is to be okay lynching Tom? Mindset disconnect.
Let's see which scum player wants to execute their buddy
Bus vote. Also it's interesting that it wasn't until Pizza pushed on Tubba that Jey even considered he might not be town, but she didn't even mention anything, just voted him, switched to tom and now here votes him again.
Since the BEGINNING my brain was like "Hey something isn't right here" BUT LIKE… NOT IN A WAY THAT MAKES ME CONCERNED.
When people were throwing out the 'newb town' explanation, I could see it, but I didn't like it. Not because Tubba Fett targeted me, but just… everything about his behavior and process. It bothered me.
I said in a previous mafia game I would never doubt my intuition again. I thought I was staying true to that, but I ignored this bit of background screaming because I thought it had nothing attached to it.
"When people were throwing out 'newb town'," ...Disassociates from her own words, throws out the "I never said it but I knew it all along!" line, and then uses it to justify her intuition about voting for Tom.
Asked themselves "How many fences can I sit on?" for most of the game until he decided on some mislynches until their buddy was going down in a blaze of glory.
I'm confident about this one.
Sorry about my inactivity lately, our office is going through a lot of rapid changes due to the company I worked for being acquired by a much bigger company and its left me unable to want to focus too long on anything, and my tasks here were re-reads...
I only got two done, but that's good enough for now. I really feel good about this vote.
Last ditch effort to squeeze one more mislynch before Lng goes down. Ends the day with a vote on Lng after the thread gained momentum that direction.Killjoy
Anaklusmos- I gravely misrad Anak last game I had with him. Wasn't a huge fan of his jump onto Grape, though?
BluesEclipse Grapefruit21- Blue's 102 feels... like he just read the game, found every unanswered question and asked it. It doesn't feel like he actually cares about the answers that much. Also feels like he's trying to fabricate interactions with everyone, scumbuddies included. I think Grapefruit is starting to give me townvibes though.
EternalLurker- You know, it's funny. Lurker's posts in a vaccuum confuse the crap out of me. But his back and forth with Rodemy (and to a lesser extent Latin) give me town vibes.
JeyK- I strongly disagree with her that Lurker/Shadow is nothing. I think she also made that point about Lurker/Rodemy. Also getting kind weird feels from her about Pa Tennis. Like, idk. She's attempting to manufacture towncred for him. Idk. I guess an argument can be made for unalignment with Pa becasue scum rarely do that for each other? I should note that I have no confidence that I'm reading this correctly, at all.
Kabazame- Still trying to get a read on him. Null.
LnGrrrR-Null
Pa Tennis- giving me scumvibes. Actually really hard to explain. I guess I really don't like his stance on Rodemy. Also his stance on my/Rodemy makes no sense in context.
Rhand- Null. We haven't started the mutual scumreads yet. Also hasn't done much.
Rodemy- His responses to Lurker are giving me town vibes right now, and I kind of like his train of thought when dealing with me.
Shadowlancerx- I feel pretty good about Shadow being town too.
Study Latin- Started out good, but after his early stuff with Lurker, I can't really get a feel for him.
Toastboy-I'm gonna give Toasty a little more posting time before I read too thouroghly into him. He's a good mafia player and I'd like enough to at least keep my from second guessing whatever read I get on him.
Tubba Fett- Seems to be very new, and very cautious.Not getting my usual newb!town or newb!scum vibes, which I feel like I really should be getting.
Vaimes- Hasn't done much yet
Zionite- See Toastboy.
Won't Lynch D1: Shadow, Rodemy, Lurker.
We shouldn't lynch D1: Latin, Grapefruit, (Jey?)
I'm null on: LnGrrrR, Toasty, Rhand, Vaimes, (Zionite?)
Pretty ok to lynch: Tubba, Pa Tennis.
This read list is incredibly soft. Also his reads on Jey, Tubba, and Lng all amount to some flavor of null, yet all three are in different lynch tiers.
Ok so the viable lynches for D1 are Grapefruit, Kaba, or Jey. I also think Tubba might be scum but I'll expand. I also have Toast maybe being scum as well, but that's harder to explain.
Tubba: As a new player, his lower skill level SHOULD make him easy to read. He's being very cautious, however. I feel like this isn't a town mindset here. Being scared of being wrong, and being judged by that is much more likely to come from scum (not wanting to fail your team, the inherent stress of being scum and trying to avoid getting caught, etc) than a town one (maybe just being uncomfortable sharing?). And he kinda stopped posting after he got attention (obviously we don't know if that was the cause, but maybe). I'm not gonna convince anyone to lynch him in 24hrs so I'll revisit this tomorrow.
Grapefruit: As I mentioned earlier, BlueEclipse's question post is suspect to me because it felt hollow, as if he didn't actually care about the answers (obviously due to already knowing everyone's alignments), and then he replaced out (which is more of a personal reason for scumreading, as I've seen more scum than not replace out early game). Then Grapefruit came in, and said his predecessor was obvtown (which I've argued against) and just saying that shows an odd mindset for town. When replacing into a game, giving your judgment of someone you have the alignment information already for is not something people really think to do as town. Town generally wants to tell us what OTHER people's alignments are. This post, where he responds to Kaba is also giving me feelings. His call of OMGUS makes me feel like that is kind of an afterthought. Like he's trying to justify a read he didn't actually have before being called out on it. And his... disdain? I guess would be the word for what I'm reading here towards Anak attacking him for a weak reason just seems off. "You made someone attack me" isn't something town thinks. It's just not. Hm. I'd be ok with a Grape lynch today.
Kaba: Post 191 seems like townie frustration. And nothing is giving me scumvibes from his ISO.
Jey: Obivously the fluff in the beginning of the game is questionable. I also agree with LngrrR that his vote on Lurker because he dislikes RVS (or so it appears) is weird. Posts 96-97 "Everyone is getting town reads from Lurker, and I don't buy it, not yet" is a language thing. I feel like this should read "I don't UNDERSTAND it" instead of needing to be sold on a read if town.
I'm wondering if the carefree nature of her posts are throwing me though.
So.
Vote Grapefruit
I'd be less ok with Jey, but wouldn't hate it. Kaba is giving me good feelings in general, so I'll say he is good for today.
So this is putting two buddies into the scum pile, which is pretty ballsy, but he ends with pushing Grapefruit anyway. And he gives himself outs for both Jey and Tubba.
@Pa: what makes you say that the wagon is all town? From a statistical standpoint, that's very unlikely.
Grapefruit21 - 6 (Anaklusmos, Kabazame, EternalLurker, Pa Tennis, Vaimes, Study Latin)
This is the wagon when Tom said it looked all town. KJ pushing against the idea that it looked all town looks a little desperate.
This was /barning Rhand declaring me town. The timing of it was the first thing that put KJ on my radar, and why I had him in my proposed scum team day two. Basically a townie correctly pegged another townie, and then KJ jumped in for the credit before day ended.
Can people other than those 4 tell me why they wouldn't make sense as a team?
Vote Tubba Fett
Why Tubba over myself or Kabaz, who assisted in the mislynch of Grape? Why aren't we more likely scum than someone on the wagon?
Considering he himself was scumreading Tubba at the eod1, this looks like another attempt to push the scum on the wagon narrative, when I'm basically certain that he was the only scum on Grape's wagon.
Let me summarize some points on why Zionite is scum
-was lurking day 1, "coincidentally" showed up right after being called out multiple times. Means he was probably reading and not posting. Scummy
-has voted multiple times with absolutely 0 reasoning to support the vote
-weakly defending grapefruit but couldn't actually explain why other than "I don't support his lynch". GF flips town and Zion tried to use the fact that he "thought grapefruit was town and fought his lynch" to make himself look good (classic scum tactic)
-he kind of refused to play Day 1 because he said he's "not good" at it or something, don't exactly remember. I believe someone said he didn't do this in other games
I've literally seen no reasons to believe Zion is town other than "he feels town" or something equally vague... unless I forgot. But still I don't see any good defense from Zion or from those who don't want to lynch him.
My thoughts on Zionite, for most of your issues, Kaba, are that he's been around enough to not be obvious about being scum.
Like lurking till called isn't really a thing, especially for a vet like Zionite. etc.
But it occurs to me as I'm writing this that two confirmed town are currently voting him. So I'm willing to follow on that basis alone. Vote Zionite
This is a really bad reason to vote someone, especially when the things they're being voted for you know shouldn't really apply.
Pa: Can you help me figure out why you're seeing Jey/Ln as a team? I got to thinking today that they could potentially be scum seperately (specifically Ln with Anak, then Jey has been scummy today already) but I'm not seeing a connection.
Damage control, making sure nothing is actually tying buddies together, then tying them to other people.
I kinda wanna say Jey and Rodemy are unaligned because both came into today trying to lynch the cop (and scum would have to be crazy to do that) but Rodemy is, in fact, crazy enough to try that.So, I'm unsure.
"Darn, this otherwise lynchable townie is unaligned with my partner, nah, he's crazy enough to do this right?"
I kinda wanna say Jey and Rodemy are unaligned because both came into today trying to lynch the cop (and scum would have to be crazy to do that) but Rodemy is, in fact, crazy enough to try that.So, I'm unsure.
Trying? Excuse me?
I'm not sure if you're taking offense at the implication that you're trying and failing or that you think that you're not even doing it a little bit and my implication that you're doing it at all is offensive?
@Killjoy, I liked the way Study Latin opened the game by asking for scum meta. Especially with it being at attack from Lurker/Cantrip, it feels far more scum vs town than TvT or bussing. His defense against Kabazame's "fancy words" attack felt pretty townie too. He did't seem ruffled or stressed, just explaining himself.
I don't think him helping Tubba is indicative of any alignment. He isn't afraid to admit when he's wrong, like when he admits that he misread something to Lurker who was attacking him earlier. He could've said the Shadow vs EL thing was scum vs town and try to attack/bus EL, but he didn't. Called out non-voters.
Overall, he interacts with lots of people, and he asks sensible questions. I don't see any scummy attacks.
he
Granted, he was a lot more talkative and towny D1, but I'm still pretty confident he's town, even if there are a few posts that raise my eyebrows, he isn't on my radar toDay.
Anak is leanscum for me, mainly due to the fact that I haven't read many posts by him that made me go "Yeah, this guy could be town." I've mostly been focused on a few players, and some of my reads are fuzzy/null. Anak is in that pool.
As of kaba's claim, he was tied for leading wagon with jey/killjoy.
When vaimes/shadow moved to killjoy, jey/lngrrr/killjoy hopped on zion like the last life raft.
There is a couple votes from lngrrr on jey in there. The one in #814 looks like he got called out for not following his stated reads and felt like he had to.
Jey (want to figure him out)
lngrrr (wagon viability)
killjoy (two townfirms on wagon)
All pretty weak votes.
I think jey was the worst of the lot. Going to zion with her very wordy non-read on killjoy in #714 along with the last time she mentioned zion
Mixed feelings about this post, but overall it feels genuine.
[snip]
Something is odd about this whole interaction. I like Zionite a lot less after that. I don't have anything concrete to give but I'm inspired to go back and look at him much more.
vote jey
You mean like you're doing here?
Also, YOU GAVE TWO OF THOSE PEOPLE CARTE BLANCHE TO MOVE TO ZIONITE. "Hey lets all move to Zionite"
"HEY THESE GUYS JUMPED TO ZIONITE WITH NO PROMPTING EXCEPT THAT KJ WAS GETTING VOTED"
Seriously?
Reactions to both Jey and Lng are soft; "Hm. Ok." Being his reaction the Lng's long post about several different people. Looks like checking the box for following up with the questions he asked. And then he has this outburst at Tom in the same post, making it look like he was just rushing past everything else.
Mass claim tomorrow if we mislynch. But I don't think we will.
@killjoy not talking about the deadline votes. Talking about the ones right after kaba's claim.
My issue is that you're trying very hard to connect us three. I'm not sure it's warrented given whats actually happened.
Do you really think that, in the event that scum!me was on the chopping block, myself and my two scumbuddies jump to suppliment a town wagon without any thoughts to the optics?
I really think that Ln and Jey are scum seperately right now (Ln is harder to explain, but I feel like he's been reletively inconsistant and unengaging, if memory serves. Jey flipped on me the moment I became the easiest town lynch.)
But my point is the fact that you're trying to lump me in with them seems wrong.
"....Because I'm bussing them and should get credit from their flips, not suspicion."
Sorry for not being present lately. I've been busy. I'm already voting Anak, but I could switch over to Tubba. I've said before that his change of play from day 1 to 2 was suspect.
Will reexamine everuthing over the next day though, so I don't miss anything.
Credit grab. He hasn't paid attention to Tubba for ages.
Oh shoot I thought there was more time. I thought it was a day from 9pm yesterday.
Blah. I might not get back from work in time to fully reread. I don't think there are enough for anak so I'll table him for now and will lynch tubba unless anal gets more steam and I'm off work.
I get a feeling in my gut that Jey and tubba aren't scum together, but have no proof of why that is. That's why I'm not down for Jey right now.
Headcanon: Tom's new nickname around the site is Daddy.
Its time to lynch Anak. Vote Anak. Come on guys lets do this.
Also willing to lynch LngrR, but nowhere near as enthusiastic there.
I wonder why.That took an incredibly large amount of time. Unlikely as it is, I will be extraordinarily ticked if I'm the night kill. This is the most work I've ever done during a night phase.
I can't say with confidence that I think LnGrrrR is scum. I didn't read in depth but I scrolled through the entirety of their posts. The only thing that stood out was them barely acknowledge Tubba's existence except for weird coaching posts and suddenly they were a top read when Askthepizzaguy was around.
Anaklusmos is next.
For some reason That statement I made on LnGrrrR didn't trigger 'DUH he's scum' and I feel silly about that in retrospect. I'm glad I got my butt into gear at the end and realized his strangeness anyway
anywho... -hops on Tom's back-
Vote Rodemy
---
@shadowlancerx
Thanks except I'm not scum and that feels really out-of-left-field; I vaguely recall your read on me wasn't town-leaning anyway but? I'll have to revisit that.
Shadow means the scum-team here because if they kill 4 people (2 mislynches 2 night kills) they win the game
Cute, but if either of you or KJ flipped town I would
1. Reconsider everything because much of this is tied together
2. Probably take a bunch of heat.
But let me get this straight, you think I'm scum with Rodemy, and I spend yesterday pestering the entire thread to not lynch Anak but lynch Lng, then instead of waiting to make that huge post until LyLo, I did it the day before? I just nailed you to the wall and you're grasping at anything you can to make it out alive.
Actually I think it's Rodemy/Anaklusmos, which is why I think it can't be killjoy (meaning you're pegging two townies) but with that lengthy push move I wouldn't be surprised if it was you and Rodemy.
Rodemy I think should die first and then I can judge more after that.
I'm less nailed to a wall and more literally laughing out loud to 90% of the points you made against me. It seems like a waste of time defending myself but if you want my reactions to your points I can find some time to write them.
The biggest thing I want to know is why did both Tubba and Lng create this scenario where I was definitely scum if you were? Seems entirely useless if we're both town.
I don't need a response to everything (anything you want to address please do though), that would turn into a wall war between us.
My one biggest gripe is your 'rule of 3's methodology here. One of Tubba's posts stood out - he named two dead townies and me so you're PoEing me to scum, along with some other lists I was part of. Tubba Fett named three townies there, and he pushed hard to mislynch one of them in particular. Why do people have to bus here? Also my frustration toward him was real and my confusion was real with that 'told Rhand privately' thing. It really weirds me out that you think that's fake.
I think the theme of this game is that scum have be highly uninteractive with each other. They've been getting away with obscene mislynches so no bussing required? I don't imagine its nonexistent, I think Rodemy pushed LnGrrrR but I don't remember LnGrrrR acknowledging Rodemy in the slightest.
Stinky joe slot and tom are last 2 scum. I reread my interaction with EL and his frustration was just too convienient and unwarranted to be town.
Also, totally called lngrrr scum from post one. Cool.
So I'm okay with tom or joe. Let's finish the gaaaaame.
Jey, why are you seeing me as scum now? Instead of just following tom, who for all you know could be scum (I think he is)
His logic on me not being on any of the mislynch wagons is dumb, considering at the time he was on both and off tubbas which is WAY more suspicious. Also, by saying I wasn't on those wagons and easily hopped on tubbas because he was scum because "thats what scum!rodemy would do" is bull*****. What about the people i was voting? Saying I would hop on scum wagons because that is what "scum!rodemy would do" is saying that the wagons I was on the first 2 days were scum, which he shouldn't know unless he knows I wasn't voting town.
Either way, town!tom isn't that dumb. He wouldn't make grandeur assumptions like that.
EL got super pissed when i called him out on his fear mongering and literally was doing a super scummy thing to now confirmed town!study latin. On top of that, he ignored my reason for voting him and said "give me a reason"
Also, how do you explain lngrrr wanting to lynch me? Using toms "I know what scum rodemy would do" mixed with lngrr flipping scum (after voting me) then killing the other guy who wanted me dead, it all points to me, doesn't it?
I bet tom comes in and tries to say I wasn't on lngrrr wagon because he called me out for my tubba vote.
I call shinanigans.
vote therealstinkyjoeterry
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My one biggest gripe is your 'rule of 3's methodology here. One of Tubba's posts stood out - he named two dead townies and me so you're PoEing me to scum, along with some other lists I was part of. Tubba Fett named three townies there, and he pushed hard to mislynch one of them in particular. Why do people have to bus here? Also my frustration toward him was real and my confusion was real with that 'told Rhand privately' thing. It really weirds me out that you think that's fake.
I think the theme of this game is that scum have be highly uninteractive with each other. They've been getting away with obscene mislynches so no bussing required? I don't imagine its nonexistent, I think Rodemy pushed LnGrrrR but I don't remember LnGrrrR acknowledging Rodemy in the slightest.
You know, I was expecting the first person to call me scum today would be stinkyjoeterry. Can't always be right I guess
You aren't sure if there has been bussing this game, or if there is where it's come from. And somehow I'm one of your two scum picks? Did you forget I voted one scum and hammered another? How does your outlook on the game jive with your scumspects? Also responding to a case on your by calling yourself town, laughing at the points brought up, and claim you might respond to them is not a town reaction.
Willing to sheep shadow from now on. He's never scum after yesterday. Vote: Jey
Stinkyjoeterry can have your town spot for now.
@Rod Town tom doesn't have grandiose ideas? What Tom do you know?
The way rodemy/lngrrr latched onto me when i called out their intentional lack of interactions felt like cornered animals.
Killjoy still looks like scum from wagons, and palpably needs people to think anak is scum.
Jey I still think is not scum with tubba. Anak is a maybe I guess but feels town to me.
Toast now 100% clear with Kaba's guaranteed sanity (barring godfather which I'm pretty sure we just lose to at this point but I don't think Eco would do that.)
Shadow all but 100% clear from how yesterday went down. Don't think he ever busses Tubba AND Lngrrr that hard.
Stinkyjoe pretty damn close from Eternal/Lngrrr interactions.
toast/shadow
joe
jey
anak
rodemy/killjoy
Slight pause because I remember KJ/rodemy going after each other... I wanna say day 1?
But nothing really came from it. Gonna go look in a bit.
Leaning voting KJ today. Progression on me early on, where he scumread me for crappy reasons then backed off when he was getting heat for it with some variation of "lol I can't read tom", was super bad. And then he was the (only?) scum on grapefruit.
@Tom, what do you think of Lng's shade throwing at Rodemy's activity levels? Also, what was the point of the incessant attempts to tie me to a Jey scum flip by both Tubba and Lng?
His logic on me not being on any of the mislynch wagons is dumb, considering at the time he was on both and off tubbas which is WAY more suspicious. Also, by saying I wasn't on those wagons and easily hopped on tubbas because he was scum because "thats what scum!rodemy would do" is bull*****. What about the people i was voting? Saying I would hop on scum wagons because that is what "scum!rodemy would do" is saying that the wagons I was on the first 2 days were scum, which he shouldn't know unless he knows I wasn't voting town.
Regarding the bolded:
No
I'm saying you avoided being on the mislynch wagons. I've been over this. Nacho has been over this. Sir Chris has been over this.
Scum don't like to have their names associated with mislynches. Or at least not too many scum on too many mislynches. That's why scum are so often on counterwagons. It's why you can look at wagons and try to figure out how scum spread themselves out.
In this case, it doesn't matter who you were voting for. Only who you weren't voting for.
So ok. You were off-wagon the first two days. Why? Did you think those people were town? Did you try to stop their lynch or were you just happy to let them get lynched without getting your hands dirty?
@Tom, what do you think of Lng's shade throwing at Rodemy's activity levels? Also, what was the point of the incessant attempts to tie me to a Jey scum flip by both Tubba and Lng?
Throwing shade at activity levels is something I've done a lot to wolfbros.
Notably cobalt. ******* cobalt. That guy just doesn't post when he rands scum. But in MMPR he kept, like, making 7 posts in a day. And I kept saying "if he keeps not posting he's definitely scum" while pushing and voting townies.
It's a great way to distance that doesn't really mean anything with a bonus of maybe some townie will defend him and look bad. And gives him a chance to let you defend him if he DOES start posting.
That could be what happened here.
The tying people to Jey does make some amount of sense. This scumteam doesn't seem to be the best at long term plans though. Or believably pushing things.
I need to go through your big post thoroughly. Later though. I'm just passing through rn
Hey guys, I'm not in the mood to talk about pretend murdering people right now, this Vegas thing was a bit gnarly (Buzz kill I know). I've read. Shadow is town.
His logic on me not being on any of the mislynch wagons is dumb, considering at the time he was on both and off tubbas which is WAY more suspicious. Also, by saying I wasn't on those wagons and easily hopped on tubbas because he was scum because "thats what scum!rodemy would do" is bull*****. What about the people i was voting? Saying I would hop on scum wagons because that is what "scum!rodemy would do" is saying that the wagons I was on the first 2 days were scum, which he shouldn't know unless he knows I wasn't voting town.
Regarding the bolded:
No
I'm saying you avoided being on the mislynch wagons. I've been over this. Nacho has been over this. Sir Chris has been over this.
Scum don't like to have their names associated with mislynches. Or at least not too many scum on too many mislynches. That's why scum are so often on counterwagons. It's why you can look at wagons and try to figure out how scum spread themselves out.
In this case, it doesn't matter who you were voting for. Only who you weren't voting for.
So ok. You were off-wagon the first two days. Why? Did you think those people were town? Did you try to stop their lynch or were you just happy to let them get lynched without getting your hands dirty?
I'll wait
D2 I missed the deadline.
You switched from jey to a town lynch d2.
You can't just use the fact that some scum want to avoid mislynches to paint me as scum because i happened to be off two of the mislynches. Just because i wasn't vocal doesn't make me scum.
What about you being on the lynches? And off tubbas? I sure as ***** wasn't scumreading zionite at the time of d2s lynch, and I was actually on jeys wagon until 4 PEOPLE CHANGED THEIR VOTES.
So, there is more flaw in your logic. I was on the wagon that didn't take due to time and such and that wagon became not the lynch reaaaaaaly fast.
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So ok. You were off-wagon the first two days. Why? Did you think those people were town? Did you try to stop their lynch or were you just happy to let them get lynched without getting your hands dirty?
I'll wait
This is the smoking gun. He led the quick change to zionite d2, yet still expects his theory to stick even after he was PART of the quick change to zionite.
It's like everyone wearing green. Rodemy, in green, goes outside for a smoke. "Hey guys," Tom flutters," Let's wear red" they switch to red. Rodemy comes back and everyone is in red. "WHY AREN'T YOU WEARING RED?" Shouts tom. Fingers point.
"SCUM!!" He squawked.
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I actually can't read you, Tom. The one game I solidly town read you was your scum game and most other games I scum read you as town. And I was scum reading you this game.
Does this not make sense to you? Do you need more explanation?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I actually can't read you, Tom. The one game I solidly town read you was your scum game and most other games I scum read you as town. And I was scum reading you this game.
Does this not make sense to you? Do you need more explanation?
Coming back after work today.
How does tom pushing a scum narrative on me using false information not scream scum to you?
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Rodemy, relax. Remember your conviction towards silver last game? You get this blind fury and let it consume you. Tom is town; look at my case on Jey and KJ.
@shadow
Looks to me like Lngrrr was pushing the Jey/Eternal dichotomy too hard for either of them to be his buddies. Like, I see what you're saying with pre-flip associations with Jey. But I think he was just saying ***** to push both of them.
Both him and Tubba really wanted to lynch Jey early on. And Lngrrr made the switch as that became a less popular opinion.
Tubba, especially, just used Jey as a crutch to avoid talking about other things. Just trying to do damage. And he was given plenty of reasons to switch his read on jey. Never took any of them.
Don't see anything in Jey's responses to Tubba that doesn't vibe with her thinking he's noob town annoyingly tunneling her. And then seeing a compelling case on him and agreeing.
Mostly agree on Killjoy though. Joining wagons full of town and hiding in analyzing the wagon. Conveniently moving him off lngrrr/tubba/rodemy completely. And it's all very low accountability.
Tom suggested they all move off of jey to townZionite.
Super over being pushed for this. Lngrrr was pissed about it too.
Listen. I didn't even want to lynch Zionite very much. IIRC I wanted both the other wagons more. I was just "doing the math" with who was online and who we could lynch. No lynching is bad. End of story.
I'm fairly sure I would have done the same as scum, unless my team had particularly good night actions or a way to change lylo math.
So ok. You were off-wagon the first two days. Why? Did you think those people were town? Did you try to stop their lynch or were you just happy to let them get lynched without getting your hands dirty?
I'll wait
This is the smoking gun. He led the quick change to zionite d2, yet still expects his theory to stick even after he was PART of the quick change to zionite.
It's like everyone wearing green. Rodemy, in green, goes outside for a smoke. "Hey guys," Tom flutters," Let's wear red" they switch to red. Rodemy comes back and everyone is in red. "WHY AREN'T YOU WEARING RED?" Shouts tom. Fingers point.
"SCUM!!" He squawked.
Not really sure what this changes?
The point is you're voting people but not actually trying to get them lynched. How many different ways can I say "trying not to get your hands dirty"?
You aren't sure if there has been bussing this game, or if there is where it's come from. And somehow I'm one of your two scum picks? Did you forget I voted one scum and hammered another? How does your outlook on the game jive with your scumspects? Also responding to a case on your by calling yourself town, laughing at the points brought up, and claim you might respond to them is not a town reaction.
If you're looking for points for your vote, you should probably be aware that I've been on every single lynch this game, and I'm not willing to bargain with you there.
How does my theorizing about lack of scum interactions make you question that you're a possible scumspect when you and Tubba Fett have virtually no history? If I'm not wrong about this [I don't have the time to double-check], it looks like you're shooting yourself in the foot here.
Why does it have to be a town reaction? It's a me reaction, I always laugh when people are hilariously wrong. That's why I use the word hilarious! If being who I am as a person isn't town then bite me. Not being myself for the sake of sounding towny is exactly a [i]scum[/i] thing to do. I also didn't claim I 'might' respond, I blatantly stated that responding is a waste of time but offered to shadowlancerx if he wanted to see specific things addressed anyway for his own sake.
Loyal Subjects of Sonasland: 8/16
Anaklusmos - ???
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - duh town
JeyK - probably town
Killjoy - ???
Tomsloger- ???
Rodemy - ???
Shadowlancer - probably town
Toastboy - town
So if we are playing against a 4 scum team, two of the four ??? Are scum. I really find it unlikely that JeyK is scum, I think Tubba and Lngr interactions both strongly suggest otherwise.
So let's go back to the end of yesterday. At #1433 we had:
Day 4 Final Votecount
Anaklusmos - 2 (Killjoy, Toastboy) LnGrrrR - 6 (shadowlancerx, tomsloger, JeY k, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry, Kabazame, Anaklusmos)
tomsloger - 2 (LnGrrrR, Rodemy)
Not Voting - 0
With 10 alive it took 6 to Lynch.
*Coloring is mine
So we have three votes pile onto scum LNG, mine, Kaba and Anak. I know both Kaba and I are town. Anak is the hammer. I mean at that point there is really no other option for scum but to hammer. Obviously LNG parked his vote on Tom, who is probably town, and decided to go dark when he knew he was going to get lynched. Lng came in pretty quick with this:
Good game guys! Good luck to the rest of the team MUAHAHAHA
Sorry about my lack of activity. I get less mafia done on vacation than when I work, turns out.
So obviously he had been following. Rodemy wanted to Lynch Tom yesterday too and apparently he wants to Lynch me also for whatever EL did (I must again refer to Silence of the Lambs were EL was abrasive and grossly wrong about every read and town). Rodemy's push on Tom is that Town Tom can't possibly read him as scum, so Tom must be scum. It's a cop out.
I still think Anak is scum and I will continue to push him. I still don't think JeyK is scum. Shadow, who I think is town, thinks that JeyK plus KJ must be a thing, but I think JeyK is town. Shadow's point falls apart if one of the two are town. I think there is a legit T/S Anak vs. KJ thing, but if KJ is town, that means Anak is scum. That leaves Rodemy or Tom as the final scum. Scum!LNG was voting Tom at EOD yesterday, so I bet Scum was trying to push an alternative to LNG or Anak in Tom.
That's where I am. Anak and Rodemy.
Also, the wagon on JeyK was garbage today. I'm going to take a look at that next.
I mean, my case doesn't fall apart entirely if one is town, there are separate issues for each, but there are a lot of indicators they are connected as well.
We still have 1 more "safe" mislynch available, what makes you think that KJ is town over Anak except that Pizza said so?
Did you ever read Anak's previous scum and town games for comparison?
I mean, my case doesn't fall apart entirely if one is town, there are separate issues for each, but there are a lot of indicators they are connected as well.
We still have 1 more "safe" mislynch available, what makes you think that KJ is town over Anak except that Pizza said so?
Did you ever read Anak's previous scum and town games for comparison?
Terry, my cases is tom is calling me scum for not being on the wagon d2 when i was until he flipped over to zionite last minute.
rod, you're arguing semantics. Tom isn't saying you're doing something he has also done, he's saying that he believes your scum meta would indicate that you're more likely to avoid being on mislynches, and willing to be on a buddy for credit.
His flip to zionite for that CFD was purely logistics; it's always better for town to get a lynch rather than letting a no lynch happen.
So no, he isn't calling you scum because you did something that he also did. He's also really not scum with how his push on Lng went anyway. Look at KJ and Jey for me.
Ha, that's an amusing role.
No, I don't suspect you. I'm town reading Anak because of my experience with him. Because we have 8 anyway, I'm okay with you pulling the trigger, it puts town in control.
Not gonna lie, I loaded up the forum but forgot to skip to the last page, so I scrolled to the bottom of page 1 and saw EternalLurker posting and freaked out for half a second before I realized what was going on. Oops.
Toastboy coming in with the big guns! Yeah I think Anaklusmos is the right choice here, as Hilarious as Rodemy being a goat is, I don't think he's worth potentially sacrificing you.
So, your role being effected by names makes me think. Rodemy was awfully persistent in getting me to claim, and shadowlancerx is suddenly very interested in my claim after I got run up [which seems normal but to demand one before I've even had a chance to respond is what raises an eyebrow]. I think it's kind of a coincidence but I really wanted to point that out just in case.
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Sorry about my lack of activity. I get less mafia done on vacation than when I work, turns out.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I expect to be either lock clear or top suspect tomorrow.
Probably the former.
Got im
Anaklusmos - 2 (Killjoy, Toastboy)
LnGrrrR - 6 (shadowlancerx, tomsloger, JeY k, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry, Kabazame, Anaklusmos)
tomsloger - 2 (LnGrrrR, Rodemy)
Not Voting - 0
With 10 alive it took 6 to lynch.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As an advanced and sophisticated society, Sonaslanders treat everyone equally and seek to avoid stereotyping. As the saying goes “Judge not a book by its cover, lest the book take offence and knock your block off”.
LnGrrrR, shrouded in black robes, heavy eyeliner, skull iconography, and fondling a gleaming ritual blood-magic dagger stretches such social politeness to its limit.
Eventually, a timid voice raises the question everyone was too embarrassed to ask:
“Uh, could the, uh, Necromancer maybe just be a Bad Guy perhaps?”
LnGrrrR looks up from the pentagram inscribed on the floor in blood, the corpse of a hamster flopping loosely in his hand. He looks shocked and offended, but the murmurs have already begun to circulate. Buoyed by their success of using more straightforward criteria to root out conspirators, a noose is around LnGrrrR’s neck before he can even begin an incantation (that would probably have been evil)
As LnGrrrR’s neck snaps, a terrible howl goes up. Dozens of tiny zombie hamsters squeak and skitter as their master dies, finally released from their infernal servitude.
LnGrrrR has been lynched. He was Evan, the Necromancer - Mafia Redirector
Black robes drape across you; incense hangs in the haze. The foul incantation poisons the air as it slithers from your lips. The blood markings on the floor glow with otherworldly malice. With a crescendo, the ritual is complete. The creature that was dead twitches and moves with unholy life as you cackle madly.
The hamster makes a squeak that sounds like sandpaper and begins to unevenly wander around. You pick it up and put it in the cage with the rest, shuffling and bumping into each other.
Being a necromancer is tough when it’s illegal. Corpses are heavily guarded and even being in a graveyard at night can cost a one-way trip to the slammer. But you keep your skills sharp by practising on whatever animal corpses you can get ahold of. The pet shop is starting to ask questions, but you pay well enough to not have to answer. You were once a powerful force that inspired fear and awe, now you are reduced to hiding in your mother’s basement. She doesn’t understand that you have a job, it just isn’t legal.
So when you were approached by Maldorvo to conspire against the king, you leapt for it. Maldorvo understands the old ways. He knows that a powerful necromancer by his side would project his power and authority. Really, all you want is your freedom back, and if you get some revenge for your humiliation on the way - well, you wouldn’t want all that evil-laughter practise to go to waste, would you?
Abilities:
Black Magick (2 shots): Twice during the game, at Night, you may choose two players. Any abilities the first uses will target the second instead of their original target. The person using the abilities will be informed that their target was changed and to whom.
It is now Night 4, which will last 72 hours and will end on Tuesday 3rd October.
By this point, the headcount takes place out of routine rather than any expectation that everyone would be there. True to form, the count comes up one short. Kabazame is missing. He is found face down in a far flung corridor, his precious clipboard nearby. He was such a brave officer of the law, truly excelling in...his field. Performing invaluable duties such as, well, we don't need to list them. Clearly they were vital, as he was always so terribly busy.
The clipboard is speedily hidden before the chef can try and serve it as stale toast.
Kabazame has been killed. He was Segreant Robert "Bob" Hodge - Town Cop
You have been in the city watch for most of your life. You have been a sergeant almost as long. You are, really, a natural born sergeant: innately talented at keeping your head down and doing just enough to appear busy without actually achieving anything important. You do your duty diligently: you are the master of delegation, the emperor of ticking things off of a completely empty clipboard. People can never say you did a bad job, but they are also mysteriously very reluctant to ask you to do it again.
As a long-lasting member of middle management, you end up in charge of a lot of valuable organisational tasks. That’s how you find yourself on duty inside the main feasting hall. You have also spent years honing the ability to appear to the casual observer to be alert and ready for action while also surreptitiously deeply involved in a large pie.
Abilities:
Cop Shot (1-shot): Once during the game at Night, you may investigate target player and learn their alignment (guaranteed sane). Because you feel very strongly about the idea of doing more work than is absolutely necessary, you will lose your shot of this ability when a member of the Mafia is killed.
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It is now Day 5, which will unsurprisingly last 2 weeks. The deadline is 2100GMT on Tuesday 17th October.
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Vote Jey
If for some reason anyone prefers a KJ lynch first then fine, but I will not lynch outside of those two.
PROOF
Lng Huge preflip association here. And that second paragraph basically has to contain at least one buddy. This isn't bussing, this is shade throwing. Pushing the lynch off of KJ, and stopping him from claiming. Moves over to Terry, trying to salvage Jey at this point. Without pushing the slot even close to how he pushed Jey, suddenly Terry is top lynch candidate and Jey isn't even on this list. I'm not seeing any real progression on why Jey is now town. Maybe because EL would have fought harder than Lng could have dealt with and cantrip was nonexistent, so now he sees and opportunity to sneak in the mislynch. Probably the rule of 3, I'd be pretty surprised if a buddy wasn't in here. (And Tom/Anak are both pretty darn likely to be town in a vacuum anyway)
Tubba Rule of 3 here, and Tubba being new makes it even more likely to be accurate. "I've started bussing a buddy, maybe your reasoning can help me convincingly get out of it?" That read on me is hot garbage; it's literally just using the same preflip association to get me lynched after Jey. Again, this isn't "I want to mislynch this townie", it's "Can you give me a reason to town read my buddy". Since we know it's a scum on scum interaction, look at how Jey is being treated. Lng gives no indication that Tubba should back off Jey, but that's his response? This lacks incredulity, like he really feels like he's asking why she shouldn't be lynched rather than implying that she should.
He ends with a few posts to pizza talking about Jey and also taking heat.
Jey
"Hey KJ, don't cut off a mislynch."
First mention of Lng, absolutely nothing about him read wise. First mention of Tubba, looks like coaching. Responses to Tubba. It's all counter questions designed to push him off of her rather than actually address what he's saying. It's playing dumb, and gives no indication that she cares about his alignment. Jey's response to Lng feels like asking a buddy to avoid defending her lynch target. Also notice how she seems inquisitive about someone being tied to her, rather than incredulous. Other people called him newb!town, so instead of digging into a buddy pushing her she just barns the town reads on him. No meat to this interaction. If someone was scum reading me and they weren't closely reading my posts I'd get suspicious. But instead she gives him an out. She's playing dumb here, and the frustration matches that of someone who feels unjustly bussed. This whole interaction is just O.o
Like Tubba not being aware of what masons are is irrelevant, and then Jey being like "if I could kill I would have killed EL, because the only way I could kill would be if I was a vig" is just so forced. Found this post next to the Jey post I am about to quote, but this is Lng keeping EL open as scum even if Jey was to flip scum. Also the random sharing of Rodemy again makes me think he's not scum. This hits me in the feels. I included this because so far it's the only thing that gives me real pause. I don't think I'm wrong, but if I am, this is the post I should have listened to. And Jey, assuming you're scum, this is a fantastic post. There is a mindset disconnect here; most of this analysis seems like Jey thinks KJ could reasonably be scum, but then she declares that she isn't crazy about lynching him. (A few posts later she votes Zionite over KJ, saying she really isn't up for lynching him.) "He's totes newb!town, except he's better than me...except his reads are waaaay bad. Also I might be 100% wrong and that's just cause I'm sometimes bad at this game." (Jey I don't mean any offense by this, I just think you're scum) This is another one, but I kinda think it was an attempt both to pocket me, and make me look like her buddy. I just don't believe this. There is no consistency with her read on KJ. Also the comment about the doc being dead lacks the emotion it is attempting to portray. This is really awkward and comes down to semantics. Why? How this reads to me:
"Killjoy, stop bussing me over something stupid, no one else is pushing me for that!"
And
"Hey Mr. Townie, can you give me some townie things to do for you so I can be townie cause I'm a townie?" Except she did at least twice push back on Rodemy asking her about this and said she couldn't say. Using flavor to make a joke is one thing, but she's been cagey about it. So...Jey hasn't really indicated any reason to back off of her now scum read onto KJ, and she says Tom is scum if KJ is town, and her solution is to be okay lynching Tom? Mindset disconnect. Bus vote. Also it's interesting that it wasn't until Pizza pushed on Tubba that Jey even considered he might not be town, but she didn't even mention anything, just voted him, switched to tom and now here votes him again. "When people were throwing out 'newb town'," ...Disassociates from her own words, throws out the "I never said it but I knew it all along!" line, and then uses it to justify her intuition about voting for Tom. Last ditch effort to squeeze one more mislynch before Lng goes down. Ends the day with a vote on Lng after the thread gained momentum that direction.
Killjoy This read list is incredibly soft. Also his reads on Jey, Tubba, and Lng all amount to some flavor of null, yet all three are in different lynch tiers. So this is putting two buddies into the scum pile, which is pretty ballsy, but he ends with pushing Grapefruit anyway. And he gives himself outs for both Jey and Tubba. Grapefruit21 - 6 (Anaklusmos, Kabazame, EternalLurker, Pa Tennis, Vaimes, Study Latin)
This is the wagon when Tom said it looked all town. KJ pushing against the idea that it looked all town looks a little desperate. This was /barning Rhand declaring me town. The timing of it was the first thing that put KJ on my radar, and why I had him in my proposed scum team day two. Basically a townie correctly pegged another townie, and then KJ jumped in for the credit before day ended. Considering he himself was scumreading Tubba at the eod1, this looks like another attempt to push the scum on the wagon narrative, when I'm basically certain that he was the only scum on Grape's wagon. This is a really bad reason to vote someone, especially when the things they're being voted for you know shouldn't really apply. Damage control, making sure nothing is actually tying buddies together, then tying them to other people. "Darn, this otherwise lynchable townie is unaligned with my partner, nah, he's crazy enough to do this right?" Reactions to both Jey and Lng are soft; "Hm. Ok." Being his reaction the Lng's long post about several different people. Looks like checking the box for following up with the questions he asked. And then he has this outburst at Tom in the same post, making it look like he was just rushing past everything else. "....Because I'm bussing them and should get credit from their flips, not suspicion." This feels waaaaay more like scum prepping for damage control then indignant town. Credit grab. He hasn't paid attention to Tubba for ages. Right. Gut feelings. Sure. I wonder why.
That took an incredibly large amount of time. Unlikely as it is, I will be extraordinarily ticked if I'm the night kill. This is the most work I've ever done during a night phase.
Yay I wasn't killed!
For some reason That statement I made on LnGrrrR didn't trigger 'DUH he's scum' and I feel silly about that in retrospect. I'm glad I got my butt into gear at the end and realized his strangeness anyway
anywho... -hops on Tom's back-
Vote Rodemy
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@shadowlancerx
Thanks except I'm not scum and that feels really out-of-left-field; I vaguely recall your read on me wasn't town-leaning anyway but? I'll have to revisit that.
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Shadow means the scum-team here because if they kill 4 people (2 mislynches 2 night kills) they win the game
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1. Reconsider everything because much of this is tied together
2. Probably take a bunch of heat.
But let me get this straight, you think I'm scum with Rodemy, and I spend yesterday pestering the entire thread to not lynch Anak but lynch Lng, then instead of waiting to make that huge post until LyLo, I did it the day before? I just nailed you to the wall and you're grasping at anything you can to make it out alive.
Rodemy I think should die first and then I can judge more after that.
I'm less nailed to a wall and more literally laughing out loud to 90% of the points you made against me. It seems like a waste of time defending myself but if you want my reactions to your points I can find some time to write them.
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I don't need a response to everything (anything you want to address please do though), that would turn into a wall war between us.
I think the theme of this game is that scum have be highly uninteractive with each other. They've been getting away with obscene mislynches so no bussing required? I don't imagine its nonexistent, I think Rodemy pushed LnGrrrR but I don't remember LnGrrrR acknowledging Rodemy in the slightest.
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Also, totally called lngrrr scum from post one. Cool.
So I'm okay with tom or joe. Let's finish the gaaaaame.
Jey, why are you seeing me as scum now? Instead of just following tom, who for all you know could be scum (I think he is)
His logic on me not being on any of the mislynch wagons is dumb, considering at the time he was on both and off tubbas which is WAY more suspicious. Also, by saying I wasn't on those wagons and easily hopped on tubbas because he was scum because "thats what scum!rodemy would do" is bull*****. What about the people i was voting? Saying I would hop on scum wagons because that is what "scum!rodemy would do" is saying that the wagons I was on the first 2 days were scum, which he shouldn't know unless he knows I wasn't voting town.
Either way, town!tom isn't that dumb. He wouldn't make grandeur assumptions like that.
EL got super pissed when i called him out on his fear mongering and literally was doing a super scummy thing to now confirmed town!study latin. On top of that, he ignored my reason for voting him and said "give me a reason"
Also, how do you explain lngrrr wanting to lynch me? Using toms "I know what scum rodemy would do" mixed with lngrr flipping scum (after voting me) then killing the other guy who wanted me dead, it all points to me, doesn't it?
I bet tom comes in and tries to say I wasn't on lngrrr wagon because he called me out for my tubba vote.
I call shinanigans.
vote therealstinkyjoeterry
You know, I was expecting the first person to call me scum today would be stinkyjoeterry. Can't always be right I guess
You aren't sure if there has been bussing this game, or if there is where it's come from. And somehow I'm one of your two scum picks? Did you forget I voted one scum and hammered another? How does your outlook on the game jive with your scumspects? Also responding to a case on your by calling yourself town, laughing at the points brought up, and claim you might respond to them is not a town reaction.
Willing to sheep shadow from now on. He's never scum after yesterday. Vote: Jey
Stinkyjoeterry can have your town spot for now.
@Rod Town tom doesn't have grandiose ideas? What Tom do you know?
I might be wrong about Terry and it could be tom and jey.
There is a tom and Jerry joke on there somewhere.
Jey is somehow not lynched yet (for some reason) And his flip would give us an Asston of info at this point
And lngrr was the hammer on zionite. Tom suggested they all move off of jey to townZionite..
vote jeyK I think his scumbuddy was doing what tom says Scum!rodemy would do and stuck to bussin
The way rodemy/lngrrr latched onto me when i called out their intentional lack of interactions felt like cornered animals.
Killjoy still looks like scum from wagons, and palpably needs people to think anak is scum.
Jey I still think is not scum with tubba. Anak is a maybe I guess but feels town to me.
Toast now 100% clear with Kaba's guaranteed sanity (barring godfather which I'm pretty sure we just lose to at this point but I don't think Eco would do that.)
Shadow all but 100% clear from how yesterday went down. Don't think he ever busses Tubba AND Lngrrr that hard.
Stinkyjoe pretty damn close from Eternal/Lngrrr interactions.
toast/shadow
joe
jey
anak
rodemy/killjoy
Slight pause because I remember KJ/rodemy going after each other... I wanna say day 1?
But nothing really came from it. Gonna go look in a bit.
Leaning voting KJ today. Progression on me early on, where he scumread me for crappy reasons then backed off when he was getting heat for it with some variation of "lol I can't read tom", was super bad. And then he was the (only?) scum on grapefruit.
Regarding the bolded:
No
I'm saying you avoided being on the mislynch wagons. I've been over this. Nacho has been over this. Sir Chris has been over this.
Scum don't like to have their names associated with mislynches. Or at least not too many scum on too many mislynches. That's why scum are so often on counterwagons. It's why you can look at wagons and try to figure out how scum spread themselves out.
In this case, it doesn't matter who you were voting for. Only who you weren't voting for.
So ok. You were off-wagon the first two days. Why? Did you think those people were town? Did you try to stop their lynch or were you just happy to let them get lynched without getting your hands dirty?
I'll wait
Notably cobalt. ******* cobalt. That guy just doesn't post when he rands scum. But in MMPR he kept, like, making 7 posts in a day. And I kept saying "if he keeps not posting he's definitely scum" while pushing and voting townies.
It's a great way to distance that doesn't really mean anything with a bonus of maybe some townie will defend him and look bad. And gives him a chance to let you defend him if he DOES start posting.
That could be what happened here.
The tying people to Jey does make some amount of sense. This scumteam doesn't seem to be the best at long term plans though. Or believably pushing things.
I need to go through your big post thoroughly. Later though. I'm just passing through rn
Gareth, Legendary Bearer of the Most Gnarly Hangover.
This is why I was laughing when I wrote "Go home Rodemy, you're drunk. ...oh wait."
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D2 I missed the deadline.
You switched from jey to a town lynch d2.
You can't just use the fact that some scum want to avoid mislynches to paint me as scum because i happened to be off two of the mislynches. Just because i wasn't vocal doesn't make me scum.
What about you being on the lynches? And off tubbas? I sure as ***** wasn't scumreading zionite at the time of d2s lynch, and I was actually on jeys wagon until 4 PEOPLE CHANGED THEIR VOTES.
So, there is more flaw in your logic. I was on the wagon that didn't take due to time and such and that wagon became not the lynch reaaaaaaly fast.
So you dogging me about not being on that wagon is... scumtastical.
This is the smoking gun. He led the quick change to zionite d2, yet still expects his theory to stick even after he was PART of the quick change to zionite.
It's like everyone wearing green. Rodemy, in green, goes outside for a smoke. "Hey guys," Tom flutters," Let's wear red" they switch to red. Rodemy comes back and everyone is in red. "WHY AREN'T YOU WEARING RED?" Shouts tom. Fingers point.
"SCUM!!" He squawked.
Does this not make sense to you? Do you need more explanation?
Coming back after work today.
How does tom pushing a scum narrative on me using false information not scream scum to you?
Can you talk about the grapefruit wagon?
Hey i asked first, wait your turn.
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Looks to me like Lngrrr was pushing the Jey/Eternal dichotomy too hard for either of them to be his buddies. Like, I see what you're saying with pre-flip associations with Jey. But I think he was just saying ***** to push both of them.
Both him and Tubba really wanted to lynch Jey early on. And Lngrrr made the switch as that became a less popular opinion.
Tubba, especially, just used Jey as a crutch to avoid talking about other things. Just trying to do damage. And he was given plenty of reasons to switch his read on jey. Never took any of them.
Don't see anything in Jey's responses to Tubba that doesn't vibe with her thinking he's noob town annoyingly tunneling her. And then seeing a compelling case on him and agreeing.
Mostly agree on Killjoy though. Joining wagons full of town and hiding in analyzing the wagon. Conveniently moving him off lngrrr/tubba/rodemy completely. And it's all very low accountability.
Super over being pushed for this. Lngrrr was pissed about it too.
Listen. I didn't even want to lynch Zionite very much. IIRC I wanted both the other wagons more. I was just "doing the math" with who was online and who we could lynch. No lynching is bad. End of story.
I'm fairly sure I would have done the same as scum, unless my team had particularly good night actions or a way to change lylo math.
Not really sure what this changes?
The point is you're voting people but not actually trying to get them lynched. How many different ways can I say "trying not to get your hands dirty"?
Vote KJ
You're also pegging me as scum for both LnGrrrR and Tubba Fett hilariously bussing me [i]all game[/i] so that question seems irrelevant.
If you're looking for points for your vote, you should probably be aware that I've been on every single lynch this game, and I'm not willing to bargain with you there.
How does my theorizing about lack of scum interactions make you question that you're a possible scumspect when you and Tubba Fett have virtually no history? If I'm not wrong about this [I don't have the time to double-check], it looks like you're shooting yourself in the foot here.
Why does it have to be a town reaction? It's a me reaction, I always laugh when people are hilariously wrong. That's why I use the word hilarious! If being who I am as a person isn't town then bite me. Not being myself for the sake of sounding towny is exactly a [i]scum[/i] thing to do. I also didn't claim I 'might' respond, I blatantly stated that responding is a waste of time but offered to shadowlancerx if he wanted to see specific things addressed anyway for his own sake.
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Loyal Subjects of Sonasland: 8/16
Anaklusmos - ???
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - duh town
JeyK - probably town
Killjoy - ???
Tomsloger- ???
Rodemy - ???
Shadowlancer - probably town
Toastboy - town
So if we are playing against a 4 scum team, two of the four ??? Are scum. I really find it unlikely that JeyK is scum, I think Tubba and Lngr interactions both strongly suggest otherwise.
So let's go back to the end of yesterday. At #1433 we had:
*Coloring is mine
Then at #1447 we have:
*Coloring is mine
So we have three votes pile onto scum LNG, mine, Kaba and Anak. I know both Kaba and I are town. Anak is the hammer. I mean at that point there is really no other option for scum but to hammer. Obviously LNG parked his vote on Tom, who is probably town, and decided to go dark when he knew he was going to get lynched. Lng came in pretty quick with this:
So obviously he had been following. Rodemy wanted to Lynch Tom yesterday too and apparently he wants to Lynch me also for whatever EL did (I must again refer to Silence of the Lambs were EL was abrasive and grossly wrong about every read and town). Rodemy's push on Tom is that Town Tom can't possibly read him as scum, so Tom must be scum. It's a cop out.
I still think Anak is scum and I will continue to push him. I still don't think JeyK is scum. Shadow, who I think is town, thinks that JeyK plus KJ must be a thing, but I think JeyK is town. Shadow's point falls apart if one of the two are town. I think there is a legit T/S Anak vs. KJ thing, but if KJ is town, that means Anak is scum. That leaves Rodemy or Tom as the final scum. Scum!LNG was voting Tom at EOD yesterday, so I bet Scum was trying to push an alternative to LNG or Anak in Tom.
That's where I am. Anak and Rodemy.
Also, the wagon on JeyK was garbage today. I'm going to take a look at that next.
We still have 1 more "safe" mislynch available, what makes you think that KJ is town over Anak except that Pizza said so?
Did you ever read Anak's previous scum and town games for comparison?
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His flip to zionite for that CFD was purely logistics; it's always better for town to get a lynch rather than letting a no lynch happen.
So no, he isn't calling you scum because you did something that he also did. He's also really not scum with how his push on Lng went anyway. Look at KJ and Jey for me.
No, I don't suspect you. I'm town reading Anak because of my experience with him. Because we have 8 anyway, I'm okay with you pulling the trigger, it puts town in control.
Toastboy coming in with the big guns! Yeah I think Anaklusmos is the right choice here, as Hilarious as Rodemy being a goat is, I don't think he's worth potentially sacrificing you.
So, your role being effected by names makes me think. Rodemy was awfully persistent in getting me to claim, and shadowlancerx is suddenly very interested in my claim after I got run up [which seems normal but to demand one before I've even had a chance to respond is what raises an eyebrow]. I think it's kind of a coincidence but I really wanted to point that out just in case.
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