@(I almost made a really bad inside joke here) TheRealStinkyJoeTerry Pa Tennis recently rubbed me the wrong way as a player in general, regardless of alignment, so I'm just not a fan of him.
In terms of alignment, I have no freaking clue. I thought he was town way early game and seemed genuinely interested in pushing scum, but now his methods lately seem underhanded and full of suspicion. He asked me to look at Killjoy, and I did in order to find I wasn't the most confident in the lynch but trusted others more than myself in getting there. If he's town, Pa Tennis is definitely scum.
I don't think his case on me makes much sense.
Something is wrong with this slot but I'm unable to determine what. I don't want to go near it, but I'm going to have to decide soon what his alignment is.
I posit that TvT was a possibility there and I want you to look at universes where that is so. If not today, then tomorrow at the latest.
And I'm 1000 percent with you on the no hopping, that's why I'm already rallying the forces to meet up with ample time before end of day.
I'm now at 2 people I think are scummy enough to consider lynching today as a priority. I'll feel more comfortable with them there if I can get through these isos and identify the others as townies properly.
I delayed revealing my suspicions, because I'm not hunting individual scums, but I'm hunting a team of 4 scums (likely). The low-hanging fruit of Anak and Tubba is fine, but I don't want to tip off the scum team that I'm on to half of them, I'd like to get at least 3 personally, if not the whole smash. Enough of the game has played out where that's possible in the first place, and I switched to this strategy the moment shadow and lngrrr (and tom I think?) marked me down as town, or most everyone had anyway.
There's a lot you can get, info wise, when the scums are pretending to cooperate with you. That can get them to reveal info they didn't intend. In intended to get as much info from the people who were interacting with me in the thread as possible, that I had no read on. Especially folks I knew it would take a long time to iso and get a read on by research. These folks I should be able to read based on real time interactions and their responses to my queries.
LnGrrrr, please do an iso on Killjoy, starting from the beginning. Do you think I should town circle him? It's looking pretty great, and we need more townies to make the circle work. Would you invite them in to yours?
By this point, I think Lngrrr is pushing on townies, maybe naming scums but not pushing on them. I especially marked Killjoy down as town. And I didn't buy into the premise that one of JeyK and Eternal-slot had to be scum. So now, I'm putting pressure on Lngrrr by marking off many folks as town (that I did in fact have as town) and seeing what they do with it. Either they have to present a solid case that someone I marked as town is scum, or they have to call me scum, or they have to accuse someone else they had been accusing, or someone new. Any of these is an awkward situation to be in, if you're scum.
Plus, as you'll see, there's very few other places to go, and still have a mafia win as the outcome. This will absolutely put the thought into a mafioso's head of "how do I fit 4 scums into this game without accusing myself, pizza, or the folks he's marking off as town?"
@Pizza, willing to do so, but if KJ is town, that only leaves a few possible scum on the wagons:
Final Day 1 Votecount
Grapefruit21 - 9 (Anaklusmos, Kabazame, EternalLurker, Pa Tennis, Vaimes, Study Latin, Killjoy, Grapefruit21, shadowlancerx)
JeY k - 3 (Tubba Fett, Rhand, Toastboy)
Kabazame - 2 (LnGrrrR, JeY k)
Killjoy - 1 (Rodemy)
Not Voting - 1 (Zionite)
Going by your assumed townblock (which is pretty much the same as mine with the exception of Lurker), it goes: unknown, town, town, unknown, town, town, town, town, unknown.
Assuming there are some scum on the lynch, that only leaves Anak, Pa Tennis, and Shadowlancer as possible scum.
Final Day 2 Votecount
Zionite - 8 (Kabazame, Toastboy, Jey K, Killjoy, Shadowlancerx, Study Latin, Pa Tennis, LnGrrrR)
JeY k - 4 (Tubba Fett, Cantripmancer, Rodemy, Zionite)
Killjoy - 2 (Anaklusmos, Vaimes)
Not Voting - 0
Same analysis: Town, town, town, town, unknown, town, unknown, me.
Thoughts?
My thought is that's not what I asked you. I asked you if you could individually put KillJoy into your town. I asked you to look at KillJoy's iso which is strongly townie and either confirm it is strongly townie or deny it. A townie does one of those two things, or they do nothing because they're a bad townie. You, on the other hand, are running out of spaces to put your scum suspects, and it seeped into the game thread.
The bolded and the bold orange indicates that the very first thought on their mind when I ask them if they can town-read KillJoy is that they can't really make a team of 4 without one of these townies that they've been pushing. And this shouldn't have been a problem for a townie with no information, because you already are suspecting Tubba and I don't see you rushing to claim that Tom or Shadow is townie, or Anak, and I don't think you have a solid town read on rodemy either, basically you have plenty of slots left to suspect if you have no information. It should be trivial to come up with 4 suspects even with just most of the townies I've marked off as town. You're having trouble because I'm marking off too many townies for your scum team to win the game, and you'd have to bus at least a couple scumbags, and you weren't planning on doing that today, so you weren't prepared to make such a rash decision on the spot. That's the only reason you could be having trouble with this simple exercise.
That's a terrible blunder. It reveals you are much more concerned about where you can believably put your scum suspects, before you even attempt to read KillJoy.
That's essentially never a townie's thinking process. This is immediately outing.
If you input yourself as green (as you know your alignment) and put the people I'm assuming, have claimed, or have flipped townie as town, it looks like this.
I put the others as grey. I haven't done full isos on them.
I'm focusing on you and Shadowlancer, but since you guys will take a long time to iso, and you've both got me as town (yadda yadda yadda see previous reasons) I think I'd be able to mark you down as townie with a response to the thing I needed from you.
But let's assume I'm right on all my blues. Can you name 2 or even 3 likely scums that remain?
But I wouldn't worry so much about finding the exact team right now. This exercise is fine, but I'm more interested of your thoughts on KillJoy alone; could you town clear him based on his iso?
Either that question or the "process" question (about the game long leans-change and vote record) is what I need from you next.
I think the iso on KillJoy is the quickest one, even though his iso isn't tiny, it's a fast read because he doesn't do blocks of text all the time.
If I'm wrong on this read and you're town, you gotta show me why.
I still play along because I still want to see what they do with it. Many hours pass and I got nothing from Lngrrr.
I have trouble ever reconciling this exchange with Lngrrr ever being a townie.
I will do more work on this slot, but I'm asking everyone in this game to be extremely wary, as this is almost certainly an outed wolf slot.
I am quite settled on 6 of my townies. I only need one more to solve this game.
But I am also almost settled on 3 wolves. Again, I only need one more to solve this game.
So here's the problem with a lot of your thoughts, I am actually town just losing control of his game. What do I need to do to convince you of that?
I need to see your card at this point I'm afraid. If you're town you can not lynch my townies and help me lynch my scums, that's about all I have for you atp.
I'm coming to the uncomfortable realisation that Rodemy is probably town. The main thing I have against him is that he is so jumpy with his suspicions and vote that he comes across as flailing and shallow. But the consistency to which he has posted like this along with vague memories of him posting like this in games back in the day makes it come across genuine reads. Not convinced yet but I'm going to stop microscoping him for now.
Pizza has come across as a bit over-casual which has made me wary. But SL was in my town books all the way through so I'm not about to jump down his throat. I'm also feeling positive about the amount of detail he's gone into.
Anaklusmos' plea for a day comes across as trying to parrot JeyK's question asking about how she would flip or Grapefruit's widely-regarded-as-town self-vote. don't buy it.
My top three lynch candidates are:
1) Anaklusmos
2) Shadowlancer
3) Tubbafett.
I need more time on Shadowlancer. If I had a gun to my head, sure, but I'm not willing to toss away a null until I do the proper work on his slot.
I'd even object to killing Lngrrr today on principle since I didn't iso them yet, but they are probably outed to the point where they're always inside the 5 lynches we have remaining in any order, so I am not going to put up that much of a fight on it.
With those caveats, I'm behind you 100 percent and you are the town read everyone can/should get behind. You lead the charge, I did the diligent work on two of those and am in full agreement. My vote is your vote.
Wow, Pizza. Thank you for all that. I haven't read your detailed stuff on Tubba, Anak and Lng yet, but just from the general picture post #1183, I think it looks pretty feasible, but I think Shadow's hammer was a town tell. I'm worried about Pa Tennis, but I haven't done an ISO on him yet. It just really felt like JeyK was pampering him, when I did the CFD analysis.
I'm not sure I follow the vote analysis you did to clear JeyK. I'll re-read it, but maybe can you summarize it to make sure I get what you mean?
I made a specific request as a top priority to all my townies to look at Anak and Tubba's iso, and to look at my comments on their isos. If you intend for me to cooperate on anything at all going forward, that will be done if and only if you are in my circle of townies, or you have done what I asked and looked at Anak and Tubba's iso and given me your detailed response. Nothing else matters to me right now and I'll twist ears if I have to. Sorry but I put in 13 straight hours on this today, plus this past hour, so you're gonna give me 30 minutes of your time or I don't have time for you. If you're in my circle, I need to remind you, the circle doesn't work if it's broken because we can't vote together or cooperate or suspect each other, but I made it real simple for you with strong cases on 3 suspects you should be able to see with your own eyes are scums, if you have an open mind.
Don't let my formatting or delivery or personality get in the way of a good thing. I need your help on this, now. We have 23 hours and I'm lynching Anak or Tubba today and they're both scum.
@Pizza
If I could lynch JeY by myself I would've. If there's been any lack of clarity on my read of that slot, that's on me, but I felt I've been pretty clear about it. I've also been pretty clear that it's my first game, I'm not trying to ride it, but I'm willing to admit that I might be making mistakes, in particular on my JeY read. If I'm right about my JeY read your clear of her without even reading her iso is problematic for me, especially in regards to the way you are leading the room around by the nose. As I've said before I'm not comfortable with you leading the room in the way you are. Kaba claimed cop, cleared Toast, if you buy that, then ok they're town. Your slot has no such confirmation, but everybody has to clear themselves to you? Latin had some town blood on his hands, iirc the votes. Why do you get a free pass?
Wow, Pizza. Thank you for all that. I haven't read your detailed stuff on Tubba, Anak and Lng yet, but just from the general picture post #1183, I think it looks pretty feasible, but I think Shadow's hammer was a town tell. I'm worried about Pa Tennis, but I haven't done an ISO on him yet. It just really felt like JeyK was pampering him, when I did the CFD analysis.
I'm not sure I follow the vote analysis you did to clear JeyK. I'll re-read it, but maybe can you summarize it to make sure I get what you mean?
The very quick and dirty version is this.
I want you to roleplay, for 2 minutes. Go back to the post where I put the vote record. Your name is Jey K, and you're scum. Pay attention to how other people are voting.
Tell me why you are not pushing back on your accusers, and while having multiple votes on you, you instead decide to not once, not twice, but three times vote for someone who was not voting for you, who had little chance of being lynched, which would encourage this person to also vote for you.
Tell me why, when you're on the chopping block, you don't vote your town counterwagon, when the vote is close. Okay, let's chalk it up to being afk. Still, even if you do that, why did you vote someone with such a small chance of being lynched at the time?
Now, pretend you're on a scum team, and tell me why your partners have such a hard-on for pushing you for a lynch the past two days. Ok bussing, sure. But imagine if you will that Tubba is your partner. Explain why he's so singularly focused on voting for you. Examine the case he made on you all game. Does it look like a mafia buddy bussing another, to you? Why does a low-posting "new" scum bus a more established and talkative one all game? They don't really have a chance in endgame if they're never murdered, that's tough to explain away once the cop is dead.
In any case, which fits better: JeyK is town who is trying to solve the game and failing (and flailing) and is less concerned with survival than trying to lynch a scum, or are they scum with partners who want them dead, and JeyK also has a death wish, and likes to assault people who aren't voting for JeyK and get them to also vote for JeyK.
I just haven't seen the latter as often, in my experience. It would be a new one. I also don't see why, if they're the mafia's sacrificial lamb, and are willing to die, they've put this much effort into the game, and have pushed their post count so high. They could have been coasting for 2 game days or at least a month by now.
The pattern matches a townie. I didn't do an iso, so this analysis can be overridden by damning evidence in their iso.
But how do you explain it, seriously? Put yourself in JeyK's shoes and imagine you're a scum. Tell me how the game unfolding the above way makes any sense.
@Pizza
If I could lynch JeY by myself I would've. If there's been any lack of clarity on my read of that slot, that's on me, but I felt I've been pretty clear about it. I've also been pretty clear that it's my first game, I'm not trying to ride it, but I'm willing to admit that I might be making mistakes, in particular on my JeY read. If I'm right about my JeY read your clear of her without even reading her iso is problematic for me, especially in regards to the way you are leading the room around by the nose. As I've said before I'm not comfortable with you leading the room in the way you are. Kaba claimed cop, cleared Toast, if you buy that, then ok they're town. Your slot has no such confirmation, but everybody has to clear themselves to you? Latin had some town blood on his hands, iirc the votes. Why do you get a free pass?
*big fat evil grin*
Because townies generally don't put themselves as suspects.
Glad to see you're singularly focused on my thoughts about you, as I am one guy in this game and I'm also pushing Anak and possibly Lngrrr as scum. Also good to see you've got a detailed reason why my analysis of your top suspect is wrong.
I promise you I'm going to enjoy pushing you to death if you don't give me a really good reason why my walkthrough of Jey K through the vote record is wrong. And you haven't really done jack to establish how they're scummy in the first place. You've certainly put the question to town as to why they're townie, and I answered it, since very few others seemed to be able to come up with an explanation.
Pa (and to a lesser extent Pizza): go read Anak's Iso in Horsemen Mafia, it's 25 posts (this game it's 24) and tell me that Anak doesn't seem significantly different between the games. Maybe that means he learned from that scum game and is playing better, but I still think he's town.
Pa (and to a lesser extent Pizza): go read Anak's Iso in Horsemen Mafia, it's 25 posts (this game it's 24) and tell me that Anak doesn't seem significantly different between the games. Maybe that means he learned from that scum game and is playing better, but I still think he's town.
I'll do that between now and end of round. But I want to know why when he's talking to grapefruit he's actually playing to the room, I want to know why it takes him until this month to assemble a leans list, I want to know why he only did it because he was being prompted to do so, and I want to know how his read on Lngrrr vanished without explanation.
You're saying his looks similar between games. Yeah, but his style isn't exactly a high bar to duplicate for a scum. And yet I'm still seeing serious issues.
I'll look at yours regardless but you need to give me a very satisfying explanation for all of the above before I could ever town read that slot.
Even then it wouldn't be a town read, it would be neutral because he ain't doing much and his reads are really wrong. What's townie about it, that gives separation over his typical town game?
A specifically town read on him needs to be backed up by specifics, not generics. I'm not sold based on what you have said so far, and it should be clear why.
With respect to your magic bag, I'm only not pushing it because Lylo wasn't announced and I think the odds we lynch a scum today are very high.
But when we're at Lylo, any claims are basically not believable. We lynch a scum you get to keep your magic bag hidden, but every day you do that makes it less believable. As soon as it's Lylo your magic bag will be looked at with a likelihood of most likely being a scum move to cause a mislynch.
If you really have one, you shouldn't be announcing it so openly in your opening posts. You're not a cop or a doc or a vig or an inventor and we're running out of things you could plausibly be without claiming by now. At this point, it looks more like keeping your claim as flexible as possible, which I don't like.
I'll keep an open mind for this round but you gotta know that time is running out for me to really take you seriously if and when you do claim.
@PizzaGuy, respectfully disagree with you. My point is that looking at the vote counts is a lot quicker than ISO'ing Killjoy for me. Re: scumspects, I usually focus on the one or two people I find scummiest, and then work the rest out as the game goes along. If you ask me to name four scum suspects right off, I probably won't be very strong on them. Even Tubba, my third read, I'm not that certain of. I try to latch on to the one or two people I think are scummy, determine their alignment, and go from there.
Re: townclearing KJ, my point is that I'm willing to at least partially barn you because I think you're town. But if I am rereading KJ, I want to keep in mind interactions with the other people on the wagons. I still say there is at least one scum on each wagon, and probably two.
Obviously, I disagree with your analysis of my posts, but that's fine. I will still try to do some work on both my own thoughts during the game and rereading KJ.
Speaking of time, did we get a formal extension or not?
I can also almost certainly rule out shadow-anak being masons.
Given how much push Anak is getting, and given how close we are to lylo, and given how in danger anak is, if people do not move their votes, it's now officially too late in my books for masonry claims.
Hit send too soon, I'll elaborate. You have a number of folks that can do days without activity, who have voted this round and we're under 24 hours. With this many people willing to lynch Anak, the time for shadow mason to claim and defend his partner was after I pushed the big case on Anak, or before. I also don't believe Anak is town anyway.
Speaking of time, did we get a formal extension or not?
We did not. At this point the choice is between Anak and Tubba, and you're willing to go Tubba, and I'm more convinced on Tubba slightly anyway. So I think you should be fine with your vote there, I approve of it regardless / independently of how I'm reading you.
I'll do that between now and end of round. But I want to know why when he's talking to grapefruit he's actually playing to the room,
I've seen town talk to the room all the time, and for someone like Anak who ends up as white noise much of the time anyway, it makes some sense that he would aim to have an audience.
Quote from Pizza »
I want to know why it takes him until this month to assemble a leans list,
I don't have a good answer for you, it just doesn't seem that relevant to me. I'm pretty sure I haven't even made a read list outside of my notes this game.
Quote from Pizza »
I want to know why he only did it because he was being prompted to do so,
Maybe it's just me but that doesn't seem strange to me
Quote from Pizza »
and I want to know how his read on Lngrrr vanished without explanation.
That is odd, perhaps he doesn't keep notes?
Quote from Pizza »
You're saying his looks similar between games. Yeah, but his style isn't exactly a high bar to duplicate for a scum. And yet I'm still seeing serious issues.
I'm saying he looks significantly better this game, and in that game he was scum.
Quote from Pizza »
I'll look at yours regardless but you need to give me a very satisfying explanation for all of the above before I could ever town read that slot.
Even then it wouldn't be a town read, it would be neutral because he ain't doing much and his reads are really wrong. What's townie about it, that gives separation over his typical town game?
I think it's a bit of a far cry to say that his reads are wrong rather than you just disagreeing with them.
@shadowlancerx I definitely think Askthepizzaguy is town and I'm willing to barn this person so hard. Their posts have triggered the most "Wow that makes a lot of sense!" reactions I've ever had in mafia.
You're just barely clearing the hurdles, Shadow. That's not good. Townies have more depth of thought and I know you do too when you're townie.
I put these obstacles in your path, challenges if you will, to explain, and you're just barely touching the surface and not investigating deeply. I've sort of forced you to respond to me, but you're just kind of pushing what I'm saying aside in as few words as possible.
I have to solve you town if you're town and I need your full cooperation, this isn't that. This is hurdling, which is scummy.
You're just barely clearing the hurdles, Shadow. That's not good. Townies have more depth of thought and I know you do too when you're townie.
I put these obstacles in your path, challenges if you will, to explain, and you're just barely touching the surface and not investigating deeply. I've sort of forced you to respond to me, but you're just kind of pushing what I'm saying aside in as few words as possible.
I have to solve you town if you're town and I need your full cooperation, this isn't that. This is hurdling, which is scummy.
It's probably because I hate your process. I absolutely despise the way you try and control the game, and it makes me especially defensive of the things I believe that disagree with your assertions.
And I'm juggling the idea that you're actually scum, but I did that song and dance in Kurfürstendamm game together and that ended oh so well.
Pizza, basically my issue is that you're asking me for super deep answers to questions that
1. Aren't questions that are super alignment indicative.
2. Would require me to be inside Anak's head to do more than speculate.
@Pizza
My reasons for scum reading JeY have been mentioned already, go read it again. Maybe read her too while you're at it. She doesn't need to push back at her attackers. She needs to help mislynch townies while keeping her head down. By providing no reasoning for her reads other than vague feelings she gets to do both. She hasn't taken a hard stance on anyone this game nor really posted anything to help solve it. That seems scummy to me and I've said as much.
One more thing, I can't recall if you'd been asked yet, can you speak to Latin's claim regarding JeY and Killjoy?
@Shadow
Can you clarify your latest post regarding anak? Are you saying his posting style is similar to or different from his last game? On the subject, is that type of info useful long term? I can see the benefits when applied to a newish player, but it would seem to lose potency when dealing with a more experienced player.
@Pizza you have anything outside of votes from people that haven't flipped scum pointing to town Jey? Like, I agree her and Tubba aren't buddies. But still looks actively aligned with Lngrrr, and more than possible with Anak/Killjoy.
@StinkyJoe I think you're missing the context on eod2. We literally couldn't lynch anyone but Zionite with the people here.
Lngrrr still my preferred lynch by a pretty wide margin.
Re: Anak and Killjoy I can't go higher than something like 50-40 with a 10% chance that they're both town and going down that path leads to us losing tomorrow. That terrifies me.
Not really seeing Tubba as scum. Like, it's not impossible or anything. And the engagement lowering when I expected it to rise is concerning, but he hasn't really seen any of his reads flip to build confidence/force reevaluation and a lot of the newscum tells Pizza is seeing are really just newplayer tells. Jey still more likely scum than Tubba.
Tell me why you are not pushing back on your accusers, and while having multiple votes on you, you instead decide to not once, not twice, but three times vote for someone who was not voting for you, who had little chance of being lynched, which would encourage this person to also vote for you.
Jey has spent the vast majority of her posts shading or pushing her accusers. And the fact that her votes don't often match her reads is an entirely separate matter.
Like, 3 of her main accusers have been Lurker, Tubba, me. Her response has been hard scumreading for bad reasons, pocketing, and mostly just saying she hates the way I play and saying townKilljoy means I'm scum for... uh... idk. Respectively.
I can see how you came to that conclusion from votes. But you need to iso.
I need to look at Jey/Anak and Jey/Killjoy. Maybe Jey/Tubba too.
Pa (and to a lesser extent Pizza): go read Anak's Iso in Horsemen Mafia, it's 25 posts (this game it's 24) and tell me that Anak doesn't seem significantly different between the games. Maybe that means he learned from that scum game and is playing better, but I still think he's town.
He's definitely playing well if he's scum. Big relative footprint, some nice tonal markers. I really want him to be town. But it looks less likely when I try to build teams.
Sorry for not being present lately. I've been busy. I'm already voting Anak, but I could switch over to Tubba. I've said before that his change of play from day 1 to 2 was suspect.
Will reexamine everuthing over the next day though, so I don't miss anything.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I wouldn't vote Anak unless he claimed scum and I disagree a lot with Pizza here
111 He makes a solid point about LnGrrR's vote and how it could be beneficial from a scum point of view. No one else mentioned this
234 He could have easily voted me instead of starting a new train on Grapefruit, which was much riskier. I already had a couple votes and plenty of suspicion on me, and he explained exactly why my non-voting was could be scummy, but he didn't vote me. This is attempting to solve the game, as scum here just takes the easy mislynch instead of starting a train elsewhere. Obviously you don't know that I'm town, but I'm in your "circle" so this should at least seem off to you.
314 He posts 3 lines in direct response to GF and 1 line to the crowd. So saying " when he's talking to grapefruit he's actually playing to the room" is disingenuous. He responded to GF thoroughly and then addressed everyone else. Coming from you, who addressed the entire game every other post, this attack is unfair and frankly hypocritical and I don't care for it. I also think I'm more likely to address the crowd as town then scum because as scum I tend to just tunnel and ignore everyone else. I'm not really trying to convince anyone my target is scum because 1) I know it's not true and 2) I really don't care who I mislynch as long as I get a dead townie
I don't understand what you mean in regards to post 395, but it looks fine to me.
456 I think this is a case of how reading the iso doesn't paint the whole picture. At that point, Jey K was getting a lot of heat for a bad vote and Anak was hesitant to call it scum because it seemed so intentionally bad. If Jey K is town like you think, it doesn't make sense for a scum Anak to defend her. As for Zionite, some people were calling to lynch him that day and Anak thought GF would be the better choice. In hindsight it's lining up the mislynches, sure, but at the time he (and several others obviously, including myself) were reading them both as scum.
548/606/648 "not a strong solving" and "not a strong process" don't tell me anything. You can say that about literally anyone if you don't have to back it up. It was a strong process on Killjoy (wow, that was easy!)
920 I don't see the issue with a late reads list. He supported his reads and they made sense. As for Study Latin he posted a lot but didn't really do much that was memorable, mostly asking people to elaborate on things. Not to mention he basically fell off the planet after Day 1
Your conclusion that Anak is not solving is wrong. He started all of his own arguments and hasn't parroted anyone. His point about LnGrrR was valid and new, he was first on the GF wagon, and his case against Killjoy is all original.
I also don't like how you're trying to control the game and acting like you have all this authority, but I don't think it's alignment indicative. I do appreciate the work and post volume though!
tl;dr I think Anak is town. His iso is tiny but all of his posts have purpose and content
I'm going through some stuff and found this post which explains why Pa Tennis is scum if Killjoy is town and he continued to say I'm claiming that for no reason still.
Group question: How often does scum try to avoid group questions? How often to town ignore them?
Revisiting this, now that I've done my research.
What I found was that shadowlancerx was the most willing to interact with me. I didn't analyze anyone else's group questions, but I asked a few and I only ever got one answer from shadow most of the time and nobody else.
But! I did end up noticing something useful. My ability to analyze comes mainly from seeing and reading reactions, and there's been practically none of that this game (towards me at least) and that's probably contributing heavily to why I'm sucking. Nobody wants to play with me.
What I do remember is that EternalLurker, Kabazame and Tubba Fett have all had the most opportunistic reactions that I can remember. I feel like that's a thread worth following, when I have more time. I must get to work today, nose to the grindstone, I'm super behind and a lot of hours to make up.
Read Tubba's iso and I'm still seeing newbie town more than newbie scum. I'm not great at reading new players though
It's midnight and deadline is in like 6 hours (I think), so I probably won't be around. First of all:
Unvote
Don't think my vote will do any good on Rodemy today. I think lynching Jey is the right play. I have been suspicious of her all game and I reread her iso and still think it's scummy (and VERY long!). I lost confidence in my earlier reads after GF and Zion flipped town (and I scanned Toast town), all of which were early scum reads. But I don't see a better lynch today, as most of the other realistic lynches (Tubba, KJ, Anak) I'm leaning town on.
@Shadow
Can you clarify your latest post regarding anak? Are you saying his posting style is similar to or different from his last game? On the subject, is that type of info useful long term? I can see the benefits when applied to a newish player, but it would seem to lose potency when dealing with a more experienced player.
It's significantly different. If you really want to know, I compared his iso across 4 games, 2 scum games, a town game, and this game and I think he is town, or suddenly became much better at being scum.
@Pizza: I hope I didn't put you off, I recognize that you're just playing how you do, it's just a clash of how we play, not you as an individual.
I'm going through some stuff and found this post which explains why Pa Tennis is scum if Killjoy is town and he continued to say I'm claiming that for no reason still.
@jey the people on his wagon are probably a good place to look. why would killjoy being town make me scum?
So this is the response I lost and I'm really upset, but in a nutshell I feel like both of your pushes on Grapefruit and Killjoy are flowing the same, and after two in a row I'd be fed up with your mislynches and take matters into my own hands.
That's... not really an explanation. It says you typed one and lost it. Which is certainly believable because curse.
But what little explanation you ended up giving certainly doesn't apply now, and I don't think it applied then either.
I think I found a more useful place for my vote Vote jey
Only 3 pages to ISO on Tubba. I should be able to make a detailed post on it.
ISO #1: Claims to have never played. Ok check. ISO #2: Asks about RVS voting/not RVSing
ISO #3: Something about babies and pockets, which is interesting considering he's never played before
ISO #4: Start dropping terms like mudslinging and waffling, see #3. Also specifically addresses KAbazame, who said he thought Tubba was "hesitant". Seems a bit defensive and reactive. Addresses JeyK about the Pillow Fort, which I didn't really get either. Also, responds to Blue saying that he is being too trusting, by basically playing Damsel in Distress.
ISO #5: Votes JeyK for changing direction on EL.
ISO #6: Still doesn't like JeyK. Her "Gut-Reads" in particular
ISO #7: Kind of a Random thank you to Vaimes who was town. Asks for why Vaimes thought JeyK is town.
ISO #8: Posts a T/S list. Study Latin, Eternal, and Kabazame got the town reads. SL was the one that provided a helpful link to playing as town, which at the time struck me as a bit weird/hand holdy (See ISO #2). Has Shadow, Grape, and JeyK as Scum. He calls Shadow scum for association with JeyK, and Grape scum for a questionable entry post. Obviously Grape flipped town and I stand by thinking Shadow is town, I still question JeyK.
ISO #9: Repeat of above
ISO #10: Apologizes for #9
ISO #11: Call to action on Zionite and explains his vote on JeyK more, but uses the term tonal, which I'm going to dig into later I think
ISO #12: Throws a little Shade at Shadow by asking him if he doesn't want him changing his reads and asks if Pa is an ALT
ISO #13: Tells Grape to have a Nice IRL day
ISO #14: Implying that his suspicions of Zion (Town) were based on him sitting back and cruising/scum hiding.
ISO #15: Makes a really bad jab a JeyK about responding in private, another suspicious comment coming from someone who's playing their first game.
ISO #16: Again accusing Shadow of buddying JeyK. This is a pretty heavy JeyK tunnel by Tubba. I'm going to say if Tubba is scum, JeyK is town.
ISO #17: More accusations of Shadow-JeyK buddies. Also throws out the throwing shade term. Again, a first time player.
ISO #18: More JeyK tunnel
ISO #19: See above
ISO #20: Accuses JeyK of killing Rhand because Rhand suspected him
ISO #21: Responds to Killjoy's post by basically saying that he (Tubba) OMGUS shadow
ISO #22: Again, very cordial with Vaimes. I'd be suspicious if Vaimes hadn't already flipped town.
ISO #23: More Tunnel on Shadow and JeyK, more catch phrases like throwing shade and lurking
ISO #24: Admits to tunneling
ISO #25: After realizing he's been tunneling he starts talking about Killjoy and Pa and again sticking up for Vaimes (pocketing?) ISO #26: This one is weird, so I linked it. Killjoy isn't really pushing on Tubba too hard, but Tubba reacts like Killjoy is acting more suspicious of Tubba than he is. What stood out here was that he said "When grape flipped town I felt foolish for not pushing harder". He had Grape as Scum Day 1 and he flipped town. I just don't get this comment.
ISO #26: Complains about Jeyk's gut more
ISO #27: Says he'll vote JeyK, Shadow, or Rodemy. Doesn't want to vote Zion (former scum-read). Where did Rodemey come from? I guess Rodemy was taking a little bit of heat at this point, but I don't know if he even had a vote on him at that point.
ISO #28: Addresses Shadow and tells him he's tunneling (uses the term now). Pushing harder on Shadow now, but scum reading him for the exact thing I'm town reading him for.
ISO #29: More of the above
ISO #30: Video games, blah blah
ISO #31: More JeyK tunnel
ISO #32: Asks Rodemy about thinking Kabazame is scum and clearing Toast
ISO #33: Now is suspecting Kabazume of lying about ability. Doesn't like the timing of the claim. Scum-Me wouldn't either if it just confirmed two townies. Kaba was a town read for Tubba up until now.
ISO #34: Gibberish
ISO #35: Now siding with Rodemy vs. Kaba, but a few posts before Tubba was willing to Lynch Rodemy for no reason.
ISO #36: Calls JeYK out for caring about Cantrip's input despite the fact that he had tunneled on EL the whole game. He also "Sheeps" Shadow about Study Latin lurking. Yes, Shadow, the other major tunnel target of Tubba
ISO #37: Seems to back down a bit on JeyK
ISO #38: Says Toast has a lot to gain from Kaba's claim. Duh
ISO #39: Tries some Meta talk about Shadow
ISO #40: Cordial talk with Pizza, talks about Tubba's tunnel on JeyK and Questions Kaba's claim again, but also says he doesn't like how Pizza took control of the game.
ISO #41: Basically more of the above
ISO #42: More of the above, but FINALLY asks about the push on Anak.
So here's wait I take from this:
The first thing that caught my eye is that Tubba claimed to be a new player, but kept dropping non-new-player terms. I really think this can be credited to coaching behind the scenes, but for that to be the case, since a lot of those term-drops were during Day 1, that would imply scum have day chat, which is something I haven't seen much of on this website.
The second problem I see with Tubba is the tunneling. It feels more like an effort to get someone lynched than actually solving the game. Pizza is a great example of how that process should look. To me it says Pizza is town, because of the POE solving style of his posts. I don't see that from Tubba.
The third problem I saw was several quick 180s Tubba did on Shadow.
The fourth problem I saw was throwing Rodemy into the willing to Lynch pile for the only reason of people pushing him. No explanation from Tubba. Then sides with Rodemy against Kaba's claim.
The fifth problem is the reaction to a cop claim. As town, I'm excited to see cop claims and clears. It helps me figure things out early game, come late game is when I question the cop and clears IF they survive that long. Tubba's reaction seems like panicked scum.
AND of special note, Anak is not mentioned until his last few posts and only when he was being discussed as the opposing Lynch target. I wouldn't be surprised if we have two scum up for Lynch today.
I'm going to read Anak next, but Tubba looks like I could confidently put a vote on him.
@Pa Tennis how is 'similar flow of two mislynch executions' not an explanation? You push one mislynch in a style and then if killjoy was town, a second? I wouldn't think it was a coincidence anymore. That's a scum player who knows what they're doing and lining them up. Plain and simple.
Like, you're not even trying to read anything I freaking say. All you respond with is "this isn't anything" and you don't even think.
Hello, is anyone home Pa Tennis?
Browser eating my post was a more thorough explanation but it boiled down to the same thing which is why I summarized in plain and simple terms. "Nope JeY didn't say anything and never does must be scum"
MAYBE YOU'RE NOT READING.
I'm sick of you not reading.
You're not trying to solve this stupid game and your blatant disregard for anything I have to say is definitely putting me in a state where I'm not in the mood to even remotely try either. What's the point? "Oh JeY made another post but it doesn't amount to anything so it's useless time to lynch" is all I'd ever get from you.
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In terms of alignment, I have no freaking clue. I thought he was town way early game and seemed genuinely interested in pushing scum, but now his methods lately seem underhanded and full of suspicion. He asked me to look at Killjoy, and I did in order to find I wasn't the most confident in the lynch but trusted others more than myself in getting there. If he's town, Pa Tennis is definitely scum.
I don't think his case on me makes much sense.
Something is wrong with this slot but I'm unable to determine what. I don't want to go near it, but I'm going to have to decide soon what his alignment is.
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Follow this exchange.
I delayed revealing my suspicions, because I'm not hunting individual scums, but I'm hunting a team of 4 scums (likely). The low-hanging fruit of Anak and Tubba is fine, but I don't want to tip off the scum team that I'm on to half of them, I'd like to get at least 3 personally, if not the whole smash. Enough of the game has played out where that's possible in the first place, and I switched to this strategy the moment shadow and lngrrr (and tom I think?) marked me down as town, or most everyone had anyway.
There's a lot you can get, info wise, when the scums are pretending to cooperate with you. That can get them to reveal info they didn't intend. In intended to get as much info from the people who were interacting with me in the thread as possible, that I had no read on. Especially folks I knew it would take a long time to iso and get a read on by research. These folks I should be able to read based on real time interactions and their responses to my queries.
By this point, I think Lngrrr is pushing on townies, maybe naming scums but not pushing on them. I especially marked Killjoy down as town. And I didn't buy into the premise that one of JeyK and Eternal-slot had to be scum. So now, I'm putting pressure on Lngrrr by marking off many folks as town (that I did in fact have as town) and seeing what they do with it. Either they have to present a solid case that someone I marked as town is scum, or they have to call me scum, or they have to accuse someone else they had been accusing, or someone new. Any of these is an awkward situation to be in, if you're scum.
Plus, as you'll see, there's very few other places to go, and still have a mafia win as the outcome. This will absolutely put the thought into a mafioso's head of "how do I fit 4 scums into this game without accusing myself, pizza, or the folks he's marking off as town?"
Watch.
My thought is that's not what I asked you. I asked you if you could individually put KillJoy into your town. I asked you to look at KillJoy's iso which is strongly townie and either confirm it is strongly townie or deny it. A townie does one of those two things, or they do nothing because they're a bad townie. You, on the other hand, are running out of spaces to put your scum suspects, and it seeped into the game thread.
The bolded and the bold orange indicates that the very first thought on their mind when I ask them if they can town-read KillJoy is that they can't really make a team of 4 without one of these townies that they've been pushing. And this shouldn't have been a problem for a townie with no information, because you already are suspecting Tubba and I don't see you rushing to claim that Tom or Shadow is townie, or Anak, and I don't think you have a solid town read on rodemy either, basically you have plenty of slots left to suspect if you have no information. It should be trivial to come up with 4 suspects even with just most of the townies I've marked off as town. You're having trouble because I'm marking off too many townies for your scum team to win the game, and you'd have to bus at least a couple scumbags, and you weren't planning on doing that today, so you weren't prepared to make such a rash decision on the spot. That's the only reason you could be having trouble with this simple exercise.
That's a terrible blunder. It reveals you are much more concerned about where you can believably put your scum suspects, before you even attempt to read KillJoy.
That's essentially never a townie's thinking process. This is immediately outing.
I still play along because I still want to see what they do with it. Many hours pass and I got nothing from Lngrrr.
I have trouble ever reconciling this exchange with Lngrrr ever being a townie.
I will do more work on this slot, but I'm asking everyone in this game to be extremely wary, as this is almost certainly an outed wolf slot.
I am quite settled on 6 of my townies. I only need one more to solve this game.
But I am also almost settled on 3 wolves. Again, I only need one more to solve this game.
@ Town, get behind me.
I need to see your card at this point I'm afraid. If you're town you can not lynch my townies and help me lynch my scums, that's about all I have for you atp.
Then you follow Toastboy's vote. I don't think you're gonna get it within the time frame we have left, and I need your vote anyway.
I need more time on Shadowlancer. If I had a gun to my head, sure, but I'm not willing to toss away a null until I do the proper work on his slot.
I'd even object to killing Lngrrr today on principle since I didn't iso them yet, but they are probably outed to the point where they're always inside the 5 lynches we have remaining in any order, so I am not going to put up that much of a fight on it.
With those caveats, I'm behind you 100 percent and you are the town read everyone can/should get behind. You lead the charge, I did the diligent work on two of those and am in full agreement. My vote is your vote.
I'm not sure I follow the vote analysis you did to clear JeyK. I'll re-read it, but maybe can you summarize it to make sure I get what you mean?
Here's where I'm at now.
I made a specific request as a top priority to all my townies to look at Anak and Tubba's iso, and to look at my comments on their isos. If you intend for me to cooperate on anything at all going forward, that will be done if and only if you are in my circle of townies, or you have done what I asked and looked at Anak and Tubba's iso and given me your detailed response. Nothing else matters to me right now and I'll twist ears if I have to. Sorry but I put in 13 straight hours on this today, plus this past hour, so you're gonna give me 30 minutes of your time or I don't have time for you. If you're in my circle, I need to remind you, the circle doesn't work if it's broken because we can't vote together or cooperate or suspect each other, but I made it real simple for you with strong cases on 3 suspects you should be able to see with your own eyes are scums, if you have an open mind.
Don't let my formatting or delivery or personality get in the way of a good thing. I need your help on this, now. We have 23 hours and I'm lynching Anak or Tubba today and they're both scum.
If I could lynch JeY by myself I would've. If there's been any lack of clarity on my read of that slot, that's on me, but I felt I've been pretty clear about it. I've also been pretty clear that it's my first game, I'm not trying to ride it, but I'm willing to admit that I might be making mistakes, in particular on my JeY read. If I'm right about my JeY read your clear of her without even reading her iso is problematic for me, especially in regards to the way you are leading the room around by the nose. As I've said before I'm not comfortable with you leading the room in the way you are. Kaba claimed cop, cleared Toast, if you buy that, then ok they're town. Your slot has no such confirmation, but everybody has to clear themselves to you? Latin had some town blood on his hands, iirc the votes. Why do you get a free pass?
The very quick and dirty version is this.
I want you to roleplay, for 2 minutes. Go back to the post where I put the vote record. Your name is Jey K, and you're scum. Pay attention to how other people are voting.
Tell me why you are not pushing back on your accusers, and while having multiple votes on you, you instead decide to not once, not twice, but three times vote for someone who was not voting for you, who had little chance of being lynched, which would encourage this person to also vote for you.
Tell me why, when you're on the chopping block, you don't vote your town counterwagon, when the vote is close. Okay, let's chalk it up to being afk. Still, even if you do that, why did you vote someone with such a small chance of being lynched at the time?
Now, pretend you're on a scum team, and tell me why your partners have such a hard-on for pushing you for a lynch the past two days. Ok bussing, sure. But imagine if you will that Tubba is your partner. Explain why he's so singularly focused on voting for you. Examine the case he made on you all game. Does it look like a mafia buddy bussing another, to you? Why does a low-posting "new" scum bus a more established and talkative one all game? They don't really have a chance in endgame if they're never murdered, that's tough to explain away once the cop is dead.
In any case, which fits better: JeyK is town who is trying to solve the game and failing (and flailing) and is less concerned with survival than trying to lynch a scum, or are they scum with partners who want them dead, and JeyK also has a death wish, and likes to assault people who aren't voting for JeyK and get them to also vote for JeyK.
I just haven't seen the latter as often, in my experience. It would be a new one. I also don't see why, if they're the mafia's sacrificial lamb, and are willing to die, they've put this much effort into the game, and have pushed their post count so high. They could have been coasting for 2 game days or at least a month by now.
The pattern matches a townie. I didn't do an iso, so this analysis can be overridden by damning evidence in their iso.
But how do you explain it, seriously? Put yourself in JeyK's shoes and imagine you're a scum. Tell me how the game unfolding the above way makes any sense.
Because townies generally don't put themselves as suspects.
Glad to see you're singularly focused on my thoughts about you, as I am one guy in this game and I'm also pushing Anak and possibly Lngrrr as scum. Also good to see you've got a detailed reason why my analysis of your top suspect is wrong.
I promise you I'm going to enjoy pushing you to death if you don't give me a really good reason why my walkthrough of Jey K through the vote record is wrong. And you haven't really done jack to establish how they're scummy in the first place. You've certainly put the question to town as to why they're townie, and I answered it, since very few others seemed to be able to come up with an explanation.
Challenge to you is to demonstrate either
I look forward to the results.
I'll do that between now and end of round. But I want to know why when he's talking to grapefruit he's actually playing to the room, I want to know why it takes him until this month to assemble a leans list, I want to know why he only did it because he was being prompted to do so, and I want to know how his read on Lngrrr vanished without explanation.
You're saying his looks similar between games. Yeah, but his style isn't exactly a high bar to duplicate for a scum. And yet I'm still seeing serious issues.
I'll look at yours regardless but you need to give me a very satisfying explanation for all of the above before I could ever town read that slot.
Even then it wouldn't be a town read, it would be neutral because he ain't doing much and his reads are really wrong. What's townie about it, that gives separation over his typical town game?
A specifically town read on him needs to be backed up by specifics, not generics. I'm not sold based on what you have said so far, and it should be clear why.
But when we're at Lylo, any claims are basically not believable. We lynch a scum you get to keep your magic bag hidden, but every day you do that makes it less believable. As soon as it's Lylo your magic bag will be looked at with a likelihood of most likely being a scum move to cause a mislynch.
If you really have one, you shouldn't be announcing it so openly in your opening posts. You're not a cop or a doc or a vig or an inventor and we're running out of things you could plausibly be without claiming by now. At this point, it looks more like keeping your claim as flexible as possible, which I don't like.
I'll keep an open mind for this round but you gotta know that time is running out for me to really take you seriously if and when you do claim.
Re: townclearing KJ, my point is that I'm willing to at least partially barn you because I think you're town. But if I am rereading KJ, I want to keep in mind interactions with the other people on the wagons. I still say there is at least one scum on each wagon, and probably two.
Obviously, I disagree with your analysis of my posts, but that's fine. I will still try to do some work on both my own thoughts during the game and rereading KJ.
Speaking of time, did we get a formal extension or not?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Given how much push Anak is getting, and given how close we are to lylo, and given how in danger anak is, if people do not move their votes, it's now officially too late in my books for masonry claims.
We did not. At this point the choice is between Anak and Tubba, and you're willing to go Tubba, and I'm more convinced on Tubba slightly anyway. So I think you should be fine with your vote there, I approve of it regardless / independently of how I'm reading you.
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I put these obstacles in your path, challenges if you will, to explain, and you're just barely touching the surface and not investigating deeply. I've sort of forced you to respond to me, but you're just kind of pushing what I'm saying aside in as few words as possible.
I have to solve you town if you're town and I need your full cooperation, this isn't that. This is hurdling, which is scummy.
And I'm juggling the idea that you're actually scum, but I did that song and dance in Kurfürstendamm game together and that ended oh so well.
1. Aren't questions that are super alignment indicative.
2. Would require me to be inside Anak's head to do more than speculate.
Also interested in anyone else who would be willing to lynch KJ
My reasons for scum reading JeY have been mentioned already, go read it again. Maybe read her too while you're at it. She doesn't need to push back at her attackers. She needs to help mislynch townies while keeping her head down. By providing no reasoning for her reads other than vague feelings she gets to do both. She hasn't taken a hard stance on anyone this game nor really posted anything to help solve it. That seems scummy to me and I've said as much.
One more thing, I can't recall if you'd been asked yet, can you speak to Latin's claim regarding JeY and Killjoy?
@Shadow
Can you clarify your latest post regarding anak? Are you saying his posting style is similar to or different from his last game? On the subject, is that type of info useful long term? I can see the benefits when applied to a newish player, but it would seem to lose potency when dealing with a more experienced player.
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I'll follow ATPG only because his posts have been.. good.
@StinkyJoe I think you're missing the context on eod2. We literally couldn't lynch anyone but Zionite with the people here.
Re: Anak and Killjoy I can't go higher than something like 50-40 with a 10% chance that they're both town and going down that path leads to us losing tomorrow. That terrifies me.
Not really seeing Tubba as scum. Like, it's not impossible or anything. And the engagement lowering when I expected it to rise is concerning, but he hasn't really seen any of his reads flip to build confidence/force reevaluation and a lot of the newscum tells Pizza is seeing are really just newplayer tells. Jey still more likely scum than Tubba.
Jey has spent the vast majority of her posts shading or pushing her accusers. And the fact that her votes don't often match her reads is an entirely separate matter.
Like, 3 of her main accusers have been Lurker, Tubba, me. Her response has been hard scumreading for bad reasons, pocketing, and mostly just saying she hates the way I play and saying townKilljoy means I'm scum for... uh... idk. Respectively.
I can see how you came to that conclusion from votes. But you need to iso.
I need to look at Jey/Anak and Jey/Killjoy. Maybe Jey/Tubba too.
He's definitely playing well if he's scum. Big relative footprint, some nice tonal markers. I really want him to be town. But it looks less likely when I try to build teams.
Will reexamine everuthing over the next day though, so I don't miss anything.
111 He makes a solid point about LnGrrR's vote and how it could be beneficial from a scum point of view. No one else mentioned this
234 He could have easily voted me instead of starting a new train on Grapefruit, which was much riskier. I already had a couple votes and plenty of suspicion on me, and he explained exactly why my non-voting was could be scummy, but he didn't vote me. This is attempting to solve the game, as scum here just takes the easy mislynch instead of starting a train elsewhere. Obviously you don't know that I'm town, but I'm in your "circle" so this should at least seem off to you.
314 He posts 3 lines in direct response to GF and 1 line to the crowd. So saying " when he's talking to grapefruit he's actually playing to the room" is disingenuous. He responded to GF thoroughly and then addressed everyone else. Coming from you, who addressed the entire game every other post, this attack is unfair and frankly hypocritical and I don't care for it. I also think I'm more likely to address the crowd as town then scum because as scum I tend to just tunnel and ignore everyone else. I'm not really trying to convince anyone my target is scum because 1) I know it's not true and 2) I really don't care who I mislynch as long as I get a dead townie
I don't understand what you mean in regards to post 395, but it looks fine to me.
456 I think this is a case of how reading the iso doesn't paint the whole picture. At that point, Jey K was getting a lot of heat for a bad vote and Anak was hesitant to call it scum because it seemed so intentionally bad. If Jey K is town like you think, it doesn't make sense for a scum Anak to defend her. As for Zionite, some people were calling to lynch him that day and Anak thought GF would be the better choice. In hindsight it's lining up the mislynches, sure, but at the time he (and several others obviously, including myself) were reading them both as scum.
548/606/648 "not a strong solving" and "not a strong process" don't tell me anything. You can say that about literally anyone if you don't have to back it up. It was a strong process on Killjoy (wow, that was easy!)
920 I don't see the issue with a late reads list. He supported his reads and they made sense. As for Study Latin he posted a lot but didn't really do much that was memorable, mostly asking people to elaborate on things. Not to mention he basically fell off the planet after Day 1
Your conclusion that Anak is not solving is wrong. He started all of his own arguments and hasn't parroted anyone. His point about LnGrrR was valid and new, he was first on the GF wagon, and his case against Killjoy is all original.
I also don't like how you're trying to control the game and acting like you have all this authority, but I don't think it's alignment indicative. I do appreciate the work and post volume though!
tl;dr I think Anak is town. His iso is tiny but all of his posts have purpose and content
I'm okay with a Pa Tennis lynch toDay
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Revisiting this, now that I've done my research.
What I found was that shadowlancerx was the most willing to interact with me. I didn't analyze anyone else's group questions, but I asked a few and I only ever got one answer from shadow most of the time and nobody else.
No answers
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/780342-low-fantasy-mafia-day-3-ironic?page=11#c530
Shadowlancerx
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/780342-low-fantasy-mafia-day-3-ironic?page=13#c633
No answers
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/780342-low-fantasy-mafia-day-3-ironic?page=14#c653
Shadowlancerx, Pa Tennis, Kabazame
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/780342-low-fantasy-mafia-day-3-ironic?page=18#c857
[This question seemed more rhetorical but it is one I apparently asked out loud so I'm putting it down]
No answers
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/780342-low-fantasy-mafia-day-3-ironic?page=20#c990
Shadowlancerx
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/780342-low-fantasy-mafia-day-3-ironic?page=22#c1065
Shaodwlancerx, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
This doesn't really tell me anything @_@
But! I did end up noticing something useful. My ability to analyze comes mainly from seeing and reading reactions, and there's been practically none of that this game (towards me at least) and that's probably contributing heavily to why I'm sucking. Nobody wants to play with me.
What I do remember is that EternalLurker, Kabazame and Tubba Fett have all had the most opportunistic reactions that I can remember. I feel like that's a thread worth following, when I have more time. I must get to work today, nose to the grindstone, I'm super behind and a lot of hours to make up.
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
It's midnight and deadline is in like 6 hours (I think), so I probably won't be around. First of all:
Unvote
Don't think my vote will do any good on Rodemy today. I think lynching Jey is the right play. I have been suspicious of her all game and I reread her iso and still think it's scummy (and VERY long!). I lost confidence in my earlier reads after GF and Zion flipped town (and I scanned Toast town), all of which were early scum reads. But I don't see a better lynch today, as most of the other realistic lynches (Tubba, KJ, Anak) I'm leaning town on.
Vote: Jey
@Pizza: I hope I didn't put you off, I recognize that you're just playing how you do, it's just a clash of how we play, not you as an individual.
Eco, can we get a vote count?
tubba - 3 (shadow, jey, rodemy)
anak - 2 (killjoy, toastboy)
jeY - 2 (tubba, kabazame)
killjoy - 1 (anak)
lngrrr - 1 (pa tennis)
pa tennis - 1 (lngrrr)
abstaining - 2 (pizza, stinkyjoe)
Planning on taking a break before deadline to make sure my vote is useful.
Ok, I'll bite. Following the link:
That's... not really an explanation. It says you typed one and lost it. Which is certainly believable because curse.
But what little explanation you ended up giving certainly doesn't apply now, and I don't think it applied then either.
I think I found a more useful place for my vote
Vote jey
ISO #1: Claims to have never played. Ok check.
ISO #2: Asks about RVS voting/not RVSing
ISO #3: Something about babies and pockets, which is interesting considering he's never played before
ISO #4: Start dropping terms like mudslinging and waffling, see #3. Also specifically addresses KAbazame, who said he thought Tubba was "hesitant". Seems a bit defensive and reactive. Addresses JeyK about the Pillow Fort, which I didn't really get either. Also, responds to Blue saying that he is being too trusting, by basically playing Damsel in Distress.
ISO #5: Votes JeyK for changing direction on EL.
ISO #6: Still doesn't like JeyK. Her "Gut-Reads" in particular
ISO #7: Kind of a Random thank you to Vaimes who was town. Asks for why Vaimes thought JeyK is town.
ISO #8: Posts a T/S list. Study Latin, Eternal, and Kabazame got the town reads. SL was the one that provided a helpful link to playing as town, which at the time struck me as a bit weird/hand holdy (See ISO #2). Has Shadow, Grape, and JeyK as Scum. He calls Shadow scum for association with JeyK, and Grape scum for a questionable entry post. Obviously Grape flipped town and I stand by thinking Shadow is town, I still question JeyK.
ISO #9: Repeat of above
ISO #10: Apologizes for #9
ISO #11: Call to action on Zionite and explains his vote on JeyK more, but uses the term tonal, which I'm going to dig into later I think
ISO #12: Throws a little Shade at Shadow by asking him if he doesn't want him changing his reads and asks if Pa is an ALT
ISO #13: Tells Grape to have a Nice IRL day
ISO #14: Implying that his suspicions of Zion (Town) were based on him sitting back and cruising/scum hiding.
ISO #15: Makes a really bad jab a JeyK about responding in private, another suspicious comment coming from someone who's playing their first game.
ISO #16: Again accusing Shadow of buddying JeyK. This is a pretty heavy JeyK tunnel by Tubba. I'm going to say if Tubba is scum, JeyK is town.
ISO #17: More accusations of Shadow-JeyK buddies. Also throws out the throwing shade term. Again, a first time player.
ISO #18: More JeyK tunnel
ISO #19: See above
ISO #20: Accuses JeyK of killing Rhand because Rhand suspected him
ISO #21: Responds to Killjoy's post by basically saying that he (Tubba) OMGUS shadow
ISO #22: Again, very cordial with Vaimes. I'd be suspicious if Vaimes hadn't already flipped town.
ISO #23: More Tunnel on Shadow and JeyK, more catch phrases like throwing shade and lurking
ISO #24: Admits to tunneling
ISO #25: After realizing he's been tunneling he starts talking about Killjoy and Pa and again sticking up for Vaimes (pocketing?)
ISO #26: This one is weird, so I linked it. Killjoy isn't really pushing on Tubba too hard, but Tubba reacts like Killjoy is acting more suspicious of Tubba than he is. What stood out here was that he said "When grape flipped town I felt foolish for not pushing harder". He had Grape as Scum Day 1 and he flipped town. I just don't get this comment.
ISO #26: Complains about Jeyk's gut more
ISO #27: Says he'll vote JeyK, Shadow, or Rodemy. Doesn't want to vote Zion (former scum-read). Where did Rodemey come from? I guess Rodemy was taking a little bit of heat at this point, but I don't know if he even had a vote on him at that point.
ISO #28: Addresses Shadow and tells him he's tunneling (uses the term now). Pushing harder on Shadow now, but scum reading him for the exact thing I'm town reading him for.
ISO #29: More of the above
ISO #30: Video games, blah blah
ISO #31: More JeyK tunnel
ISO #32: Asks Rodemy about thinking Kabazame is scum and clearing Toast
ISO #33: Now is suspecting Kabazume of lying about ability. Doesn't like the timing of the claim. Scum-Me wouldn't either if it just confirmed two townies. Kaba was a town read for Tubba up until now.
ISO #34: Gibberish
ISO #35: Now siding with Rodemy vs. Kaba, but a few posts before Tubba was willing to Lynch Rodemy for no reason.
ISO #36: Calls JeYK out for caring about Cantrip's input despite the fact that he had tunneled on EL the whole game. He also "Sheeps" Shadow about Study Latin lurking. Yes, Shadow, the other major tunnel target of Tubba
ISO #37: Seems to back down a bit on JeyK
ISO #38: Says Toast has a lot to gain from Kaba's claim. Duh
ISO #39: Tries some Meta talk about Shadow
ISO #40: Cordial talk with Pizza, talks about Tubba's tunnel on JeyK and Questions Kaba's claim again, but also says he doesn't like how Pizza took control of the game.
ISO #41: Basically more of the above
ISO #42: More of the above, but FINALLY asks about the push on Anak.
So here's wait I take from this:
The first thing that caught my eye is that Tubba claimed to be a new player, but kept dropping non-new-player terms. I really think this can be credited to coaching behind the scenes, but for that to be the case, since a lot of those term-drops were during Day 1, that would imply scum have day chat, which is something I haven't seen much of on this website.
The second problem I see with Tubba is the tunneling. It feels more like an effort to get someone lynched than actually solving the game. Pizza is a great example of how that process should look. To me it says Pizza is town, because of the POE solving style of his posts. I don't see that from Tubba.
The third problem I saw was several quick 180s Tubba did on Shadow.
The fourth problem I saw was throwing Rodemy into the willing to Lynch pile for the only reason of people pushing him. No explanation from Tubba. Then sides with Rodemy against Kaba's claim.
The fifth problem is the reaction to a cop claim. As town, I'm excited to see cop claims and clears. It helps me figure things out early game, come late game is when I question the cop and clears IF they survive that long. Tubba's reaction seems like panicked scum.
AND of special note, Anak is not mentioned until his last few posts and only when he was being discussed as the opposing Lynch target. I wouldn't be surprised if we have two scum up for Lynch today.
I'm going to read Anak next, but Tubba looks like I could confidently put a vote on him.
Anaklusmos - 2 (Killjoy, Toastboy)
JeY k - 3 (Tubba Fett, Kabazame, Pa Tennis)
Killjoy - 1 (Anaklusmos)
Pa Tennis - 1 (LnGrrrR)
Tubba Fett - 3 (shadowlancerx, JeY k, Rodemy)
Not Voting - 2 (AskThePizzaGuy, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry)
With 12 Alive it takes 7 Votes to Lynch.
The deadline is under 4 hours away. You are reminded that the deadline does not officially expire until I post and end the Day.
Like, you're not even trying to read anything I freaking say. All you respond with is "this isn't anything" and you don't even think.
Hello, is anyone home Pa Tennis?
Browser eating my post was a more thorough explanation but it boiled down to the same thing which is why I summarized in plain and simple terms. "Nope JeY didn't say anything and never does must be scum"
MAYBE YOU'RE NOT READING.
I'm sick of you not reading.
You're not trying to solve this stupid game and your blatant disregard for anything I have to say is definitely putting me in a state where I'm not in the mood to even remotely try either. What's the point? "Oh JeY made another post but it doesn't amount to anything so it's useless time to lynch" is all I'd ever get from you.
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤