First of all, you take it for granted that scum will kill you, and then lay out some long game scenario.
I never said scum would kill me; I said that it becomes a better play if people chain-read potential Townies as scum based on my flip (since I find it extremely unlikely that all of JeY, shadow, and Rodemy are scum). I was, in fact, suggesting that people be more careful not to make chain-reads so that scum has less incentive to Night-kill me -- since, ya know, I don't like dying.
But if you are scum, then tomorrow you can say, "Hey guys, they aren't killing me because they want to sow confusion through the town!"
...Except that my point was about how Night-killing me would create confusion (until people stop making iffy chain-reads), soooo...that's exactly the opposite of what you're saying?
Also, if I were scum I wouldnt kill you anyways, because that would provide town with a wealth of interactions. It would make more sense to kill someone quieter and then try to mislynch you.
But the only people who could feasibly lead a lynch on me are those three people, who I just asked everyone to analyze more carefully, so that post was already accounting for that....I suppose Killjoy's an option too, but he's not being chain-read as scum off of me, so there's no danger there.
This just feels like one of those posts you point to later to try to make some future point. "See guys I told you scum would do this!" and it gets soun either way like a cold reader.
Well, since I was discussing possible events were I to die, it seems a lil' difficult for me to do a "See guys, I told you!" based on that....
The point of my post wasn't to hypothesize about me being Night-Killed, as much as you'd like to portray it as such. The point stands even if I'm lynched, and to a lesser extent is still just as valid even while I'm alive, even toDay. I was simply trying to emphasize that chain-reading other players off of me (or anyone, for that matter) is dangerous, and it seems like people are mostly scum-reading JeY and Rodemy and shadow due to chain-reads, so that needs to be avoided. They can be scum-read for legitimate reasons, but I'm always going to dislike pure chain-reads even when I'm considered a Town-link in the chain. Pre-flip interactions are fine as supplemental evidence, not primary.
You just ISO'd me. {:^#{{ I updated my old reads list right here. Although Tennis isn't on that list (since it was his); he's tied with Rodemy for me, as the reread I promised in that post didn't change my opinion of him.
You say I haven't "gotten anywhere" with my reads, but I think you're ascribing incorrect priorities to me. We still have another week to decide on our lynch, so no, I haven't been pushing super hard on my Mafia reads (Rodemy, Tennis, Blues, you, and sliiiightly Zionite). I've been more focused on cementing my Town reads. Other than you, I haven't Town-read anyone and then changed my mind, because I've been very careful about who to let in to my "almost certainly Town" bloc. Right now, that's Latin, KZ, shadow, and Anak on my list of "definitely not lynching", with Killjoy on the verge of joining their ranks. That's more progress in analyzing the game than you seem to have made thus far.
It's easier to talk about my scum-reads than my Town-reads (cuz scum-reads are more about evidence whereas Town-reads are more about absence-of-evidence), so it might seem like I've been doing a lot of scum-hunting, but mentally I've actually been doing more Town-hunting.
@Zionite
Since you're starting to post things that aren't simply farts in the wind, I'm looking forward to refining my read on you.
@JeY
You're tonal shift from "everybody on board the EL bus" to "maybe EL's a great guy after all" is the timing issue. I realise you haven't backed off your read, but it's a little smelly to me. You go into more detail on your opinions in your most recent post, but it's still seems a little weak. (I meant gut feelings btw)
And a question for you: what do you mean by following in Blues footsteps? There are a lot of ways that could be taken and I want to know what you meant.
I thought BluesEclipse seemed scummy, I think you seem scummy. That simple.
I feel like you're either covering up a gut read or playing it safe with your reads by not changing them up much.
@JeY: If EL is scum, who are the buddies?
I'm stating _where_ my gut read comes from, becuase it starts as 'I know this guy is scummy but I am unable to communicate why' until all the dots connect in my brain, and then 'this was why I had that gut feeling'.
You just ISO'd me. {:^#{{ I updated my old reads list right here. Although Tennis isn't on that list (since it was his); he's tied with Rodemy for me, as the reread I promised in that post didn't change my opinion of him.
Anaklusmos- I gravely misrad Anak last game I had with him. Wasn't a huge fan of his jump onto Grape, though?
BluesEclipse Grapefruit21- Blue's 102 feels... like he just read the game, found every unanswered question and asked it. It doesn't feel like he actually cares about the answers that much. Also feels like he's trying to fabricate interactions with everyone, scumbuddies included. I think Grapefruit is starting to give me townvibes though.
EternalLurker- You know, it's funny. Lurker's posts in a vaccuum confuse the crap out of me. But his back and forth with Rodemy (and to a lesser extent Latin) give me town vibes.
JeyK- I strongly disagree with her that Lurker/Shadow is nothing. I think she also made that point about Lurker/Rodemy. Also getting kind weird feels from her about Pa Tennis. Like, idk. She's attempting to manufacture towncred for him. Idk. I guess an argument can be made for unalignment with Pa becasue scum rarely do that for each other? I should note that I have no confidence that I'm reading this correctly, at all.
Kabazame- Still trying to get a read on him. Null.
LnGrrrR-Null
Pa Tennis- giving me scumvibes. Actually really hard to explain. I guess I really don't like his stance on Rodemy. Also his stance on my/Rodemy makes no sense in context.
Rhand- Null. We haven't started the mutual scumreads yet. Also hasn't done much.
Rodemy- His responses to Lurker are giving me town vibes right now, and I kind of like his train of thought when dealing with me.
Shadowlancerx- I feel pretty good about Shadow being town too.
Study Latin- Started out good, but after his early stuff with Lurker, I can't really get a feel for him.
Toastboy-I'm gonna give Toasty a little more posting time before I read too thouroghly into him. He's a good mafia player and I'd like enough to at least keep my from second guessing whatever read I get on him.
Tubba Fett- Seems to be very new, and very cautious.Not getting my usual newb!town or newb!scum vibes, which I feel like I really should be getting.
Vaimes- Hasn't done much yet
Zionite- See Toastboy.
Won't Lynch D1: Shadow, Rodemy, Lurker.
We shouldn't lynch D1: Latin, Grapefruit, (Jey?)
I'm null on: LnGrrrR, Toasty, Rhand, Vaimes, (Zionite?)
Pretty ok to lynch: Tubba, Pa Tennis.
@Karabakazme, who else, if anyone, do you think has shown hesitation in this game?
I'm guessing you mean me :/ lol
Tubba Fett, but he's new so I'll give him some time to get going
Jey K a little bit. Seems hesitant to push reads by mentioning that he often has good reads but doesn't know how to push them. Also says he will "provide something substantial later".
Of course, hesitation =/= scum, but it can be a piece of the puzzle in building a good read!
Why these folks (with a pointed focus on Jey) but not me, who also specifically avoided giving/expanding on reads for a time?
By "edit" do you mean "quote the question I was answering"?
If so... because that's the part I was answering.
Weird question.
...You removed a sentence asking you to explain. I quoted both your and his posts. You answered his question but not his plea for you to explain.
So, let me ask then, why did you not want to explain?
Quote from Shadow »
@KJ: Why focus on Lurker vs Latin here out of all of Lurker's interactions?
I'm not sure I've answered this yet, so I'll do that here, I suppose. My townread on both of them were in context to each other. I beleive them both town because of their interactions early d1 (although Latin's townread is dwindling a bit in recent).
@Grapefruit: Were you serious when you said you thought Blue was obvtown? Or was that a joke?
I already did. Sets up to jump on my d1 wagon. Early scumread of me means you will have an easier time jumping on it and not catching flak.
Scum!you Can't have all townreads early in the game (in fact idk why or how you had any reads at that point) and putting "light pressure" on it felt like sliding in a scumread for good measure.
What grape is saying is true though. Reading that post out of context generated my reply. It was a genuine scumread until I read that post before.
However, why did you feel the need to say that,grape?
Oh. I hadn't considered that being motivation for doing that.That's actually quite a fair assessment.
What I'm getting from Grapefruit is that what I'm seeing in Rodemy is just Rodemy. Maybe that's true. Maybe Rodemy somehow solves mafia games without reading posts. That's not really important here.
But he is saying that it's meaningless, and that Rodemy's tone when he's pushing his trash reads based on single posts makes him absolutely town, while also saying how good he is at faking it. He even agreed with my "Rodemy is putting Killjoy in an impossible position".
That read is never genuine. The confirmation bias in me says he's just reaching for a townread on a buddy, but it really looks more like he has TMI that Rodemy is town.
Blues was scummy. Grapefruit even moreso.
Not sure what would have to happen for me to move my vote.
Wait. So you think that Grape is faking a read because he saw one post by Rodemy and attached town cred to it... Basically saying that Grape doesn't have enough to attach so much towncred to Rodemy... but when Rodemy has basically that same position with regard to me (ergo thinking that I didn't have enough information to formulate an actual scumread), it's scummy and is "putting me in an impossible position"?
That doesn't make sense.
Hm. Vote Pa Tennis.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Strongly agree with Toast's case against Kaba right now.
Yupo, zero mention of Kaba in my catch up post.
So wait, your counter is that you mention Kaba exactly once, in reference to someone else's case on him? You literally just barned Toast, called it a wagon on Kaba and jumped on. Toast was literally the only one voting Kaba then, so it's not even a wagon yet. What it looks to me is that you were looking to vote someone after catching up, found a case on a softer target, and threw your vote there.
Is OMGUS voting like Kaba did after someone /barn votes him something that scum does? Maybe, but let's be real Grapes vote is poor on its own.
I have heard this elsewhere and I don't entirely get it. Town hunting at the expense of all else can be scummy, but in a larger game, hunting for a couple town to help narrow down your suspect pool is really that scummy?
@Killjoy Somewhat serious, but not completely serious. I thought Blues was more townie than not, but I was exaggerating.
@Anak I've gone after that elsewhere. But in short I didn't have much to add and I found Toast's case highly persuasive.
And as for the town hunting question I actually strongly disagree. I've found building a town block (that is stringent and you'll reevaluate) to be the best way to win the game. I like the whole building a tight PoE and shooting into it style of play quite a bit.
I like the whole building a tight PoE and shooting into it style of play quite a bit.
"shooting" = scum-slip = lynch GF toDay
(kidding)
(...half-kidding)
Seriously, though, I kinda wanna string up everyone who called Town-hunting a scum-tell. I mean, what? I generally prefer scum-hunting to Town-hunting on Day One, mostly because the easiest thing to read when we have no information Day One is people's interactions with each other, allowing scum-buddies to be discovered. But Town-hunting is totally valid too, and often better than scum-hunting on Day Two or so. I'm Town-hunting more than Mafia-hunting right now because my pool of potential scum is too big at the moment and needs to be narrowed.
Speaking of someone I was in the process of trying to Town-read....
Anaklusmos- I gravely misrad Anak last game I had with him. Wasn't a huge fan of his jump onto Grape, though?
Kabazame- Still trying to get a read on him. Null.
These look incompatible. KZ's vote on Grape had a similar rationale as Anak's, was against the person who'd voted him, and piggy-backed on Anak's (coming one post later). I personally didn't have a problem with either of their votes, but since you seem to have a problem with Anak's, I don't see how you can fail to mention KZ's, which was basically strictly worse.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Keeping track of inactives so they don't fall off our radars:
I don't think Rhand declared V/LA, right? His lack of activity is getting problematic.
Vaimes announced V/LA until last Friday, but that should be over now.
And that's pretty much it now. Yay. Toast has posted about as little as those two, but he's had content in his posts at least, though I'd definitely like a little more.
Anaklusmos- I gravely misrad Anak last game I had with him. Wasn't a huge fan of his jump onto Grape, though?
Kabazame- Still trying to get a read on him. Null.
These look incompatible. KZ's vote on Grape had a similar rationale as Anak's, was against the person who'd voted him, and piggy-backed on Anak's (coming one post later). I personally didn't have a problem with either of their votes, but since you seem to have a problem with Anak's, I don't see how you can fail to mention KZ's, which was basically strictly worse.
I really strongly disagree (and I think most people who've been reacting to it do as well) that Kabazame's vote is worse than Anak's. Can you explain how you came to that conclusion. The only way I can see is by saying Kaba's is OMGUS, but we already know you don't think it was.
@Grapefruit: I don't think KZ's was, but Anak's certainly can't be considered such. And you specifically told Latin that you thought KZ and Anak had the same tone and content in their posts, so, since you also claimed KZ's post was OMGUS, how do you not see it as strictly worse than Anak's?
I don't mind either of their posts, but I prefer Anak's because KZ's claims that you didn't explain any of your reads, when you did actually go into your Tennis and Rod reads in depth. (Though I don't like either of the reads at all, at least they exist.) Felt like KZ was twisting facts to exaggerate his case against you a bit: it's not strictly bad to say that you weren't explaining your reads, because most of your reads were cursory, but it's hyperbolic to say you didn't explain any other than the one on me, and hyperbole doesn't really serve Town.
What is similar about your 5 word read on Rodemy on page 1 and grapefruit's half dozen posts defending rodemy whole only giving reasons that he's null?
@EL townhunting when your scumpool is that big is illogical.why is your pool even that big? You are dead set on me being scum so there is 1 out of the way. So you should be looking for the other scum in your pool, not finding out who else is town.
Outside your pool are your townreads. Inside are people you think are scum, if you can get such a certain scumread from me, it really shouldn't be that hard to catch the others.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
...Who said I was "dead set on [you] being scum"? I've literally never even voted you once all game; my vote has (aside from brief diversions) been on Tennis and GF. Nice try at twisting the facts yet again. Trying to play the victim, eh?
The problem with my scum-pool is that I'm having issues finding a large enough allied group within it. There are viable pairs: you + GF, JeY + Tennis, etc. But finding a connected group of five is a bit problematic. So I feel more comfortable narrowing it down by systematically removing people from the pool rather than trying to scum-read certain people in it harder than the rest.
@Rodemy. you are someone I know is experienced and good at mafia. I am surprised you have never heard of that term.
@EL, why are you even trying to find aligned pairs when you don't even have a flip yet? Why not just, I don't know, rate everyone's posts and determine if they are scummy without trying to rely on info we don't even have yet? Also, why are you afraid of calling Rodemy scummy? You want to have your cake and eat it too?
I would like to note that Kabazame has disappeared again once direct pressure on him let up. I will try to clear time this week for an iso/case.
@EL, why are you even trying to find aligned pairs when you don't even have a flip yet? Why not just, I don't know, rate everyone's posts and determine if they are scummy without trying to rely on info we don't even have yet?
I'm not trying to find allies. I wouldn't remove people from my scum-pool just because they don't have obvious allies. But not even seeing potential allies for my scum-reads bothers me enough that I'd prefer to focus on Town-hunting at the moment rather than scum-hunting. If you don't think considering scum-buddy analysis at this stage is legit, why is Zionite's #304 not worth a comment from you?
Also, why are you afraid of calling Rodemy scummy? You want to have your cake and eat it too?
Uh. Rodemy is scummy. I have no problem saying that. I'm not, however, "dead set" on him being scum, as he claimed. That's all. I'm close to locked on Grapefruit being scum, and I'm locked on KZ being Town, but it's too early for any of my other reads to be perma-locks.
Re: 304, Zionite is trying to get JeY on record on who is scum/town. Whereas you are trying to pair multiple people together in various combinations. It just feels fake to me. Maybe you are some super genius who can figure out the game by D1.
@EL, is there anyone who you would say, at a confidence of 75% or more, is scum? If so, why are you worrying about others and not just pushing that one person?
Zionite specifically asked about scum-buddies. Any particular reason you're interpreting his words in the most favorable light and mine as scummy, when we're discussing the same concept?
I'm fairly confident that Grapefruit is scum. I just haven't had much need to push him because plenty of other people seem to have come to the same conclusion independently, so I'd prefer to focus on others right now. There's not much for me to add to that conversation when we're this far from deadline; getting a better handle on some of my currently semi-null reads (Killjoy and Toast, fr'ex) is much more useful information for me at the moment.
@Grapefruit: I don't think KZ's was, but Anak's certainly can't be considered such. And you specifically told Latin that you thought KZ and Anak had the same tone and content in their posts, so, since you also claimed KZ's post was OMGUS, how do you not see it as strictly worse than Anak's?
I don't mind either of their posts, but I prefer Anak's because KZ's claims that you didn't explain any of your reads, when you did actually go into your Tennis and Rod reads in depth. (Though I don't like either of the reads at all, at least they exist.) Felt like KZ was twisting facts to exaggerate his case against you a bit: it's not strictly bad to say that you weren't explaining your reads, because most of your reads were cursory, but it's hyperbolic to say you didn't explain any other than the one on me, and hyperbole doesn't really serve Town.
Well, sure but he didn't actually commit to a read on either of those. It was "Rod is kind of town but also rod and he does the same thing as scum" and Pa Tennis was "sometimes I think he's town and sometimes scum". But his absolute reads, like calling Toast "super town", were unexplained... and those are the kind of reads that need to be explained. You don't need to explain why you're null or basically null on someone because that's like the base read you have coming in.
I would like to note that Kabazame has disappeared again once direct pressure on him let up.
Toast hasn't been here in like 5 days but I "disappeared"? Almost everyone was gone over the weekend, don't act like I've been gone for an irregular amount of time compared to other players
Sorry guys, shiplife has been hectic.
4 more days and I'll be home for a month. I'll give the game the attention it deserves then.
Meanwhile I will do my best to catch up.
What I'm getting from Grapefruit is that what I'm seeing in Rodemy is just Rodemy. Maybe that's true. Maybe Rodemy somehow solves mafia games without reading posts. That's not really important here. But he is saying that it's meaningless, and that Rodemy's tone when he's pushing his trash reads based on single posts makes him absolutely town, while also saying how good he is at faking it. He even agreed with my "Rodemy is putting Killjoy in an impossible position". That read is never genuine. The confirmation bias in me says he's just reaching for a townread on a buddy, but it really looks more like he has TMI that Rodemy is town. Blues was scummy. Grapefruit even moreso. Not sure what would have to happen for me to move my vote.
Re:"Trashy reads" :< you know, negating someones reads is kinda scummy. And by your two reads you are saying I could be town or scum based on what they are saying. Which is pretty fency in regards to reading me. You were voting me before that for the very reasons
I don't like this response.
Later in your post you say "dismissing reads is SUPER scummy."
If it is indeed "SUPER" scummy, why are you not voting him for these reasons?
Also, why aren't you defending your actual reads as opposed to resorting to calling Pa scummy?
@Latin
Does town never omgus? I've seen a lot of people use that as a scumtell, but IME town votes people for voting them all the time.
Town can indeed omgus, but like I said with grapefruit, omgus is a subjective tell. It's situationally scummy, and needs proper context to be read as actual scummy behavior. Town can omgus too, but it's certainly not a towntell.
PTAP, been busy with real life, trying to buy a house, so wish me luck!
I see several questions directed at me which I don't have time to answer yet, but I will. In the meantime, @Study Latin: I think you're townreading me right? How strong would you rate that read?
I would say it's a fair town read at this point. I would need to re-read the thread and find the examples where we mind-meld to explain it fully, (which I'm not fully inclined to do atm), but a lot of my reasoning lays in your interactions with EL which I did make a large post on. My reservation lies in your reticence in voting.
What do you think about Rodemy's reaction to Pa's vote?
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Scum right now are Rodemy, Grapefruit, and quite possibly Killjoy. I would be perfectly fine lynching in here today. Find one scum, find them all.
Townblock is me, El, Shadow, Pa tennis, and possibly Tubba. Maybe Kabazame too, but enh. In essence, we should vote together for VCA purposes.
Neutral/null: Vaimes, Rhand
Come at me.
Anyone else hasn't done anything really impressionable for me to get a clear read on them. Although, I am getting townvibes from Toastboy. Jey should push people for things that are objectively more alignment indicative, but it's not my place to tell people how to play.
And no, I will not answer questions about pre-associatives, mostly because I have none, nor should I.
After giving Vaimes and Rhand their time, we should come to a consensus on who we should lynch.
@Kabazame, because unlike the others who are just straight up missing, you tend to appear when you are pressured and then disappear afterwards.
@EL, but it isnt the same. Asking JeY about who she thinks your scumbuddies are is getting her to do work to add more info to the game. It is to get her mindset. Whereas you mentioning it without being asked feels like you are trying to project an air of "Look at me I am working so hard at being town by connecting all these threads!"... when all those threads could be useless. But I guess I can pull a Zionite here: why do you think certain people are aligned?
I'm torn on it; he had this hidden read of Lurker being pretty strong town, and then when he finally does a breakdown, he basically says "never mind, Lurker could go either way". I see this being one of two ways, either a scum motivated pull back against strongly white knighting someone that they realized could be a viable lynch target after all, or a town mistake with a very honest admittance that he was wrong. I'm trying to decide if KJ would have been willing to stick to his original leaning as scum, but I don't think he would have.
I foresaw this being a problem, and me trying to draw an earlier response out of KJ was in-part trying to avoid this.
Much like yourself, I have no clear perception on whether it's coming from scum or town. However, do you think the reasoning itself feels like KJ is approaching Me vs. Lurker from the mindset of town?
I think that's going to end up coming down to whether you and Lurker are both town. I am pretty sure you are, save the ever so slight pocket feels I'm getting due to you caring about my opinion more than I think it's worth right now. And Lurker...I have strong feelings about his alignment, but they keep oscillating back and forth so I'm just going to have to trust figuring him out to another time. All that to say, KJ's approach looks townie, but time/flips will truly tell.
Quote from Latin »
Quote from Shadow »
The other three that I'd like to focus on a bit more are Kabaz, Toastboy, and KJ. I feel reasonably confident that there is at least one scum in that grouping. To clarify before it's asked, not because of their interactions with each other, but because those three specifically stood out as curious when I did my isos.
Could you possibly give an example of what made them 'stand out' in their ISOs?
Or at least, please explain why their posting style caused this to occur.
Toastboy I really don't remember and couldn't find anything when I skimmed it again, so ask again later on him.
KJ felt almost too structured, I don't remember him sounding forced in previous games we've been in.
Kabaz gave his strongest townread as EL, but described it as a style that's often mislynchable (read: scummy) which seems like a strange way to qualify a town read.
I don't know what you mean real time interaction. Like just a back and forth between a couple/few that everyone else reads?
Well, no. You were in the last game with me. I had no problem with Tom directing the town like he did in Apocalypse because it was short and to the point. He was an effective post leader. This is just really getting on my nerves and frustrating me for some reason.
Like, his biggest town read is also who he is most frustrated with.
What I'm getting from Grapefruit is that what I'm seeing in Rodemy is just Rodemy. Maybe that's true. Maybe Rodemy somehow solves mafia games without reading posts. That's not really important here.
But he is saying that it's meaningless, and that Rodemy's tone when he's pushing his trash reads based on single posts makes him absolutely town, while also saying how good he is at faking it. He even agreed with my "Rodemy is putting Killjoy in an impossible position".
That read is never genuine. The confirmation bias in me says he's just reaching for a townread on a buddy, but it really looks more like he has TMI that Rodemy is town.
Blues was scummy. Grapefruit even moreso.
Not sure what would have to happen for me to move my vote.
@Shadow and @El, after reading this post from Pa, what is your read on him now?
My read on him is "Seems okay, save for a few things that make me scowl". Ugh, I kinda think maybe that means he's scum? It depends a lot on if Grapefruit were to flip town and then if he went after Rod from there. (Of course, if Rod them flipped scum I'd just be completely wrong)
I think Grapefruit is following in BluesEclipse's footsteps. I'm willing to lynch them next.
EDIT: #238 just makes me cringe. Why is OMGUS'ing a tell? Why is Anak's attack weak?
I can't explain the psychology behind why it's a tell, but in my experience scum will often turn around and cross vote. It happens. As for Anak's attack well first have you read it? First his facts weren't accurate, second it's not a strong reason. It was a catch up post, those don't tend to be the place for in depth reads. I'd much rather get my opinions out there and see how people react to them. I can provide details later.
And a question for you: what do you mean by following in Blues footsteps? There are a lot of ways that could be taken and I want to know what you meant.
Grapefruit, are you saying that you think OMGUS is a double tell for two scum cross voting?
@Zionite
Since you're starting to post things that aren't simply farts in the wind, I'm looking forward to refining my read on you.
-_- Vote Tubba Fett
This feels really forced. If Tubba flips scum I'd probably tinfoil zionite as a buddy, despite thinking he's town otherwise.
@Tubba: Why is zionite someone you're specifically interested in refining a read on?KJ: Help me understand how you have me as top town and this is all you say about me...it just seems...incomplete.
Shadowlancerx- I feel pretty good about Shadow being town too.
[snip]
Won't Lynch D1: Shadow, Rodemy, Lurker.
We shouldn't lynch D1: Latin, Grapefruit, (Jey?)
I'm null on: LnGrrrR, Toasty, Rhand, Vaimes, (Zionite?)
Pretty ok to lynch: Tubba, Pa Tennis.
To throw in my unwanted 2¢ into the thread, town hunting can be a great way to play. I'm not sold on it for myself as a primary strategy, but I've seen it work.
PTAP, been busy with real life, trying to buy a house, so wish me luck!
I see several questions directed at me which I don't have time to answer yet, but I will. In the meantime, @Study Latin: I think you're townreading me right? How strong would you rate that read?
I would say it's a fair town read at this point. I would need to re-read the thread and find the examples where we mind-meld to explain it fully, (which I'm not fully inclined to do atm), but a lot of my reasoning lays in your interactions with EL which I did make a large post on. My reservation lies in your reticence in voting.
What do you think about Rodemy's reaction to Pa's vote?
Fair enough. As stated above, it feels like you're leaning on my opinions, which I'm just not used to.
As far as Rodemy's reaction...I'm writing Rod off as town because of early in the thread, so I'm obviously going to be biased, but it looks fine. It looks like Rodemy.
@Killjoy Somewhat serious, but not completely serious. I thought Blues was more townie than not, but I was exaggerating.
@Anak I've gone after that elsewhere. But in short I didn't have much to add and I found Toast's case highly persuasive.
And as for the town hunting question I actually strongly disagree. I've found building a town block (that is stringent and you'll reevaluate) to be the best way to win the game. I like the whole building a tight PoE and shooting into it style of play quite a bit.
What was the point in saying it then? You know that your opinion of your predecessors alignment is not gonna hold any weight. What's the point?
But with regards to townhunting, I agree with Grapefruit's above thoughts. I want to eventually get as good at it as Voxx is, but I'm nowhere near that yet. I'm still engaging my scumreads, which is a thing Voxx does not do.
Quote from Lurker »
Speaking of someone I was in the process of trying to Town-read....
Anaklusmos- I gravely misrad Anak last game I had with him. Wasn't a huge fan of his jump onto Grape, though?
Kabazame- Still trying to get a read on him. Null.
These look incompatible. KZ's vote on Grape had a similar rationale as Anak's, was against the person who'd voted him, and piggy-backed on Anak's (coming one post later). I personally didn't have a problem with either of their votes, but since you seem to have a problem with Anak's, I don't see how you can fail to mention KZ's, which was basically strictly worse.
...I don't actually recall seeing that post from Kaba. Quote it for me?
What is similar about your 5 word read on Rodemy on page 1 and grapefruit's half dozen posts defending rodemy whole only giving reasons that he's null?
Quote from Me »
Wait. So you think that Grape is faking a read because he saw one post by Rodemy and attached town cred to it... Basically saying that Grape doesn't have enough to attach so much towncred to Rodemy... but when Rodemy has basically that same position with regard to me (ergo thinking that I didn't have enough information to formulate an actual scumread), it's scummy and is "putting me in an impossible position"?
That doesn't make sense.
Like I said, I take issue with jumping on Grapefruit for beleiving Rodemy town based on that one statement but NOT also jumping on me, and further jumping on Rodemy, for me developing a potential scumread based on supposely nothing. I feel like you would agree with Rodemy if you were actually thinking that, and would not have said I was in an impossible position.
Scum right now are Rodemy, Grapefruit, and quite possibly Killjoy. I would be perfectly fine lynching in here today. Find one scum, find them all.
Townblock is me, El, Shadow, Pa tennis, and possibly Tubba. Maybe Kabazame too, but enh. In essence, we should vote together for VCA purposes.
Neutral/null: Vaimes, Rhand
Come at me.
Anyone else hasn't done anything really impressionable for me to get a clear read on them. Although, I am getting townvibes from Toastboy. Jey should push people for things that are objectively more alignment indicative, but it's not my place to tell people how to play.
And no, I will not answer questions about pre-associatives, mostly because I have none, nor should I.
After giving Vaimes and Rhand their time, we should come to a consensus on who we should lynch.
:/ Your scumblock is all people I have either town or leaning, and you include yourself in your townblock (which is just weird for me, as I don't usually include myself in T/S lists because why bother?) What the hell is your alignment??
@Latin
What would be the point of Rodemy v Killjoy if they're partners?
@Toast
What does anaklusmos being nice to kabazame mean?
Lol.
Well did anyone know it was me?
No. Makes 100% sense though.
@Toastboy: Can you give a full reads list? You just keep giving "On Player X" and it makes it kinda hard to determine your reads on people in relation to other people.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@EL...why do you think certain people are aligned?
Nothing complicated. JeY is manufacturing inexplicable Town-reads for Tennis out of thin air. GF is doing the same for Rodemy. The recipients of these reads have responded by distancing themselves. All four are on my scum-dar.
Much like yourself, I have no clear perception on whether it's coming from scum or town. However, do you think the reasoning itself feels like KJ is approaching Me vs. Lurker from the mindset of town?
I think that's going to end up coming down to whether you and Lurker are both town. I am pretty sure you are, save the ever so slight pocket feels I'm getting due to you caring about my opinion more than I think it's worth right now. And Lurker...I have strong feelings about his alignment, but they keep oscillating back and forth so I'm just going to have to trust figuring him out to another time. All that to say, KJ's approach looks townie, but time/flips will truly tell.
wut
Latin's asking you about what you think of KJ's reasoning, and you're saying your read will be affected based on my flip? How does that make sense? Town-KJ doesn't know how I'll flip, so he can't take that into account in his reasoning, so you can't take that into account when determining if he's Town.
@Zionite
Since you're starting to post things that aren't simply farts in the wind, I'm looking forward to refining my read on you.
-_- Vote Tubba Fett
This feels really forced. If Tubba flips scum I'd probably tinfoil zionite as a buddy, despite thinking he's town otherwise.
This is why I'ma have to trust most of you guys on reading Tubba. I can't figure out if that's scum behavior or new-player behavior; the two are generally indistinguishable to me.
@Shadow
I'd previously rated Zion as Null/scum based on my opinion that he wasn't posting a lot of content. I'm interested in refining my reads on everyone as information becomes available. I thought that was the point.
Is there a reason you don't want me refining my reads?
@Pa
I'm assuming you signed in with your alternate profile?
I would say "Oh boy ketchup my favorite condiment" but I'm on Mayo team for the splatfest
Anyway...
@EternalLurker I don't think their interactions makes them unaligned. If anything it feels like an artificial distancing, and anything artificial is
Also, why am I paired with Pa Tennis, again?
@Pa Tennis No, my reading on EternalLurker is based on my understanding of people in general. EternalLurker, as I would assume to be human, falls into this category.
@Rodemy I was already reading EternalLurker's posts with a fine-tooth comb at first and then it dawned on me, at that rate, it was going to take way too long to continue that strategy. Notice I didn't forgo a re-read, but just read faster halfway through and pointed out more important details. This seems like your weakest attack yet, and is making me worried that you're actually scum and not just bumbling about again.
@Toastboy I'm not looking for an "Eh, it wouldn't be so bad lynch" and I said that in my post. "Obviously I'm not about to lynch someone I think is town". I'll repeat myself: I sternly believe EternalLurker is scum.
@EL, yeah, but you are acting like the only info we will have is at the end of D1. Trying to predict what happens D2, D3, etc is dumb.
@Rodemy/Rhand/Zionite, isnt town hunting a scumtell?
Lingerererer (LnGrrrR I have officially decided on the pronunciation I was debating earlier, if you don't like it I'll stop ), why did you ask those three people in particular?
Also I feel like the statement you're giving to EL here is important but I'm having trouble deciphering it, exactly. I feel like him going on about being potentially nightkilled seems scummy, but driving focus to a point about chain-reading which I don't exactly agree with, but I don't know what you're saying here.
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I see value in townhunting, since we're all weighing in on it, but I'm personally more focused on finding scum.
EDIT: Oh, and then Zionite just took the words out of my mouth.
I'm fairly confident that Grapefruit is scum. I just haven't had much need to push him because plenty of other people seem to have come to the same conclusion independently, so I'd prefer to focus on others right now.
So you want to ride the coat-tails of the bus without drawing too much attention to yourself? Because that's what would happen if the lynch went through without any momentum from you.
I would like to note that Kabazame has disappeared again once direct pressure on him let up.
Toast hasn't been here in like 5 days but I "disappeared"? Almost everyone was gone over the weekend, don't act like I've been gone for an irregular amount of time compared to other players
Toastboy didn't have any pressure on him in the first place, really.
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I knew something felt familiar about Pa Tennis's posts ._.
My read on him is "Seems okay, save for a few things that make me scowl". Ugh, I kinda think maybe that means he's scum? It depends a lot on if Grapefruit were to flip town and then if he went after Rod from there. (Of course, if Rod them flipped scum I'd just be completely wrong)
@Zionite
Since you're starting to post things that aren't simply farts in the wind, I'm looking forward to refining my read on you.
-_- Vote Tubba Fett
This feels really forced. If Tubba flips scum I'd probably tinfoil zionite as a buddy, despite thinking he's town otherwise.
@Tubba: Why is zionite someone you're specifically interested in refining a read on?KJ: Help me understand how you have me as top town and this is all you say about me...it just seems...incomplete.
Why does wanting to refine a read on Zionite make tubba scum? This doesn't strike me as forced at all, why do you think it's forced?
As far as Rodemy's reaction...I'm writing Rod off as town because of early in the thread, so I'm obviously going to be biased, but it looks fine. It looks like Rodemy.
Take me, someone new to the forum, why should I buy into what you're saying here?
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Tubba is one of the best examples of new-town I've seen in awhile. His play so far has been shockingly good for his first game.
Pa I can explain completely based off of behavior and voting.
And no, I will not answer questions about pre-associatives, mostly because I have none, nor should I.
My reads are independent, each one of them, we can cross this bridge when we come to it, but right now on day one, asking me this is supporting a logical gap imo. Their interactions aren't the things I'm reading them scum for.
I'm fairly confident that Grapefruit is scum. I just haven't had much need to push him because plenty of other people seem to have come to the same conclusion independently, so I'd prefer to focus on others right now.
So you want to ride the coat-tails of the bus without drawing too much attention to yourself? Because that's what would happen if the lynch went through without any momentum from you.
...lolwtf
If it's a "bus" rather than a wagon, as you claim, it serves me absolutely no purpose to allow it to happen without associating myself with it for Town-cred. So that'd be ridiculous.
If it's a wagon on a Townie, your very premise of me "riding its coat-tails" is false, because I was the very first vote on Grapefruit (actually, on Blues, pre-replacement) and have had no concerns about repeatedly calling him my scummiest read. I have readily associated myself with a Grapefruit lynch; I just haven't pushed it. I have no need to push something that's already rolling on its own, when my time is better spent elsewhere. (Not that you seem keen on letting me spend my time on more important matters....)
@JeyK, I mentioned it earlier, but I asked those three just because I know they have been playing awhile and I consider them good players. Oh and the pronunciation would be similar to the word "hanger" but with an L. The extra Rs are because I was annoyed at all the usernames that were taken. Turns out this one isnt taken too often.
Re: the point on EL, I can't outright say, "This is scummy and here is proof." But it feels scummy to me. It feels like he is trying to project an air that he has been putting all this work in, determining alignments and whatnot, when most of that work is lnt "real" because he doesnt have any facts. Something about chaining assumptions together makes me leery.
@JeY: I guess I can kind of see how you get Grapefruit and EL could be buddies. But I cannot fathom how Kabazame is part of that team. How does he fit for you?
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The point of my post wasn't to hypothesize about me being Night-Killed, as much as you'd like to portray it as such. The point stands even if I'm lynched, and to a lesser extent is still just as valid even while I'm alive, even toDay. I was simply trying to emphasize that chain-reading other players off of me (or anyone, for that matter) is dangerous, and it seems like people are mostly scum-reading JeY and Rodemy and shadow due to chain-reads, so that needs to be avoided. They can be scum-read for legitimate reasons, but I'm always going to dislike pure chain-reads even when I'm considered a Town-link in the chain. Pre-flip interactions are fine as supplemental evidence, not primary.
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You just ISO'd me. {:^#{{ I updated my old reads list right here. Although Tennis isn't on that list (since it was his); he's tied with Rodemy for me, as the reread I promised in that post didn't change my opinion of him.
You say I haven't "gotten anywhere" with my reads, but I think you're ascribing incorrect priorities to me. We still have another week to decide on our lynch, so no, I haven't been pushing super hard on my Mafia reads (Rodemy, Tennis, Blues, you, and sliiiightly Zionite). I've been more focused on cementing my Town reads. Other than you, I haven't Town-read anyone and then changed my mind, because I've been very careful about who to let in to my "almost certainly Town" bloc. Right now, that's Latin, KZ, shadow, and Anak on my list of "definitely not lynching", with Killjoy on the verge of joining their ranks. That's more progress in analyzing the game than you seem to have made thus far.
It's easier to talk about my scum-reads than my Town-reads (cuz scum-reads are more about evidence whereas Town-reads are more about absence-of-evidence), so it might seem like I've been doing a lot of scum-hunting, but mentally I've actually been doing more Town-hunting.
Since you're starting to post things that aren't simply farts in the wind, I'm looking forward to refining my read on you.
@JeY
You're tonal shift from "everybody on board the EL bus" to "maybe EL's a great guy after all" is the timing issue. I realise you haven't backed off your read, but it's a little smelly to me. You go into more detail on your opinions in your most recent post, but it's still seems a little weak. (I meant gut feelings btw)
I thought BluesEclipse seemed scummy, I think you seem scummy. That simple.
I'm stating _where_ my gut read comes from, becuase it starts as 'I know this guy is scummy but I am unable to communicate why' until all the dots connect in my brain, and then 'this was why I had that gut feeling'.
Currently feeling Grapefruit and Kabazame.
Thank you!
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
So your gut is reading Eternal based on other people's meta?
@Rodemy/Rhand/Zionite, isnt town hunting a scumtell?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
BluesEclipseGrapefruit21- Blue's 102 feels... like he just read the game, found every unanswered question and asked it. It doesn't feel like he actually cares about the answers that much. Also feels like he's trying to fabricate interactions with everyone, scumbuddies included. I think Grapefruit is starting to give me townvibes though.EternalLurker- You know, it's funny. Lurker's posts in a vaccuum confuse the crap out of me. But his back and forth with Rodemy (and to a lesser extent Latin) give me town vibes.
JeyK- I strongly disagree with her that Lurker/Shadow is nothing. I think she also made that point about Lurker/Rodemy. Also getting kind weird feels from her about Pa Tennis. Like, idk. She's attempting to manufacture towncred for him. Idk. I guess an argument can be made for unalignment with Pa becasue scum rarely do that for each other? I should note that I have no confidence that I'm reading this correctly, at all.
Kabazame- Still trying to get a read on him. Null.
LnGrrrR-Null
Pa Tennis- giving me scumvibes. Actually really hard to explain. I guess I really don't like his stance on Rodemy. Also his stance on my/Rodemy makes no sense in context.
Rhand- Null. We haven't started the mutual scumreads yet. Also hasn't done much.
Rodemy- His responses to Lurker are giving me town vibes right now, and I kind of like his train of thought when dealing with me.
Shadowlancerx- I feel pretty good about Shadow being town too.
Study Latin- Started out good, but after his early stuff with Lurker, I can't really get a feel for him.
Toastboy-I'm gonna give Toasty a little more posting time before I read too thouroghly into him. He's a good mafia player and I'd like enough to at least keep my from second guessing whatever read I get on him.
Tubba Fett- Seems to be very new, and very cautious.Not getting my usual newb!town or newb!scum vibes, which I feel like I really should be getting.
Vaimes- Hasn't done much yet
Zionite- See Toastboy.
Won't Lynch D1: Shadow, Rodemy, Lurker.
We shouldn't lynch D1: Latin, Grapefruit, (Jey?)
I'm null on: LnGrrrR, Toasty, Rhand, Vaimes, (Zionite?)
Pretty ok to lynch: Tubba, Pa Tennis.
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Why these folks (with a pointed focus on Jey) but not me, who also specifically avoided giving/expanding on reads for a time?
...You removed a sentence asking you to explain. I quoted both your and his posts. You answered his question but not his plea for you to explain.
So, let me ask then, why did you not want to explain?
I'm not sure I've answered this yet, so I'll do that here, I suppose. My townread on both of them were in context to each other. I beleive them both town because of their interactions early d1 (although Latin's townread is dwindling a bit in recent).
@Grapefruit: Were you serious when you said you thought Blue was obvtown? Or was that a joke?
Oh. I hadn't considered that being motivation for doing that.That's actually quite a fair assessment.
Wait. So you think that Grape is faking a read because he saw one post by Rodemy and attached town cred to it... Basically saying that Grape doesn't have enough to attach so much towncred to Rodemy... but when Rodemy has basically that same position with regard to me (ergo thinking that I didn't have enough information to formulate an actual scumread), it's scummy and is "putting me in an impossible position"?
That doesn't make sense.
Hm. Vote Pa Tennis.
So wait, your counter is that you mention Kaba exactly once, in reference to someone else's case on him? You literally just barned Toast, called it a wagon on Kaba and jumped on. Toast was literally the only one voting Kaba then, so it's not even a wagon yet. What it looks to me is that you were looking to vote someone after catching up, found a case on a softer target, and threw your vote there.
Is OMGUS voting like Kaba did after someone /barn votes him something that scum does? Maybe, but let's be real Grapes vote is poor on its own.
I have heard this elsewhere and I don't entirely get it. Town hunting at the expense of all else can be scummy, but in a larger game, hunting for a couple town to help narrow down your suspect pool is really that scummy?
@Anak I've gone after that elsewhere. But in short I didn't have much to add and I found Toast's case highly persuasive.
And as for the town hunting question I actually strongly disagree. I've found building a town block (that is stringent and you'll reevaluate) to be the best way to win the game. I like the whole building a tight PoE and shooting into it style of play quite a bit.
(kidding)
(...half-kidding)
Seriously, though, I kinda wanna string up everyone who called Town-hunting a scum-tell. I mean, what? I generally prefer scum-hunting to Town-hunting on Day One, mostly because the easiest thing to read when we have no information Day One is people's interactions with each other, allowing scum-buddies to be discovered. But Town-hunting is totally valid too, and often better than scum-hunting on Day Two or so. I'm Town-hunting more than Mafia-hunting right now because my pool of potential scum is too big at the moment and needs to be narrowed.
Speaking of someone I was in the process of trying to Town-read.... These look incompatible. KZ's vote on Grape had a similar rationale as Anak's, was against the person who'd voted him, and piggy-backed on Anak's (coming one post later). I personally didn't have a problem with either of their votes, but since you seem to have a problem with Anak's, I don't see how you can fail to mention KZ's, which was basically strictly worse.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Keeping track of inactives so they don't fall off our radars:
I don't think Rhand declared V/LA, right? His lack of activity is getting problematic.
Vaimes announced V/LA until last Friday, but that should be over now.
And that's pretty much it now. Yay. Toast has posted about as little as those two, but he's had content in his posts at least, though I'd definitely like a little more.
I really strongly disagree (and I think most people who've been reacting to it do as well) that Kabazame's vote is worse than Anak's. Can you explain how you came to that conclusion. The only way I can see is by saying Kaba's is OMGUS, but we already know you don't think it was.
I don't mind either of their posts, but I prefer Anak's because KZ's claims that you didn't explain any of your reads, when you did actually go into your Tennis and Rod reads in depth. (Though I don't like either of the reads at all, at least they exist.) Felt like KZ was twisting facts to exaggerate his case against you a bit: it's not strictly bad to say that you weren't explaining your reads, because most of your reads were cursory, but it's hyperbolic to say you didn't explain any other than the one on me, and hyperbole doesn't really serve Town.
What is similar about your 5 word read on Rodemy on page 1 and grapefruit's half dozen posts defending rodemy whole only giving reasons that he's null?
This is why I have existential crises guys :/
@ GRRR not sure I have heard that term.. or why you chose to ask me about it...
I do know that predicting whats gonna happen d2 is dumb, considering scum can literally see your predictions.
@jey you... forgot? How much EL posted? I just don't buy that..
You were tunneling him BIG TIME.
Scum!jey says that to forgo a "reread"? Feel free to discuss.
@rhand re: too early for pressure *shrug* that was me being lazy tbh. I wanted to see more.
Outside your pool are your townreads. Inside are people you think are scum, if you can get such a certain scumread from me, it really shouldn't be that hard to catch the others.
...Who said I was "dead set on [you] being scum"? I've literally never even voted you once all game; my vote has (aside from brief diversions) been on Tennis and GF. Nice try at twisting the facts yet again. Trying to play the victim, eh?
The problem with my scum-pool is that I'm having issues finding a large enough allied group within it. There are viable pairs: you + GF, JeY + Tennis, etc. But finding a connected group of five is a bit problematic. So I feel more comfortable narrowing it down by systematically removing people from the pool rather than trying to scum-read certain people in it harder than the rest.
@EL, why are you even trying to find aligned pairs when you don't even have a flip yet? Why not just, I don't know, rate everyone's posts and determine if they are scummy without trying to rely on info we don't even have yet? Also, why are you afraid of calling Rodemy scummy? You want to have your cake and eat it too?
I would like to note that Kabazame has disappeared again once direct pressure on him let up. I will try to clear time this week for an iso/case.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Uh. Rodemy is scummy. I have no problem saying that. I'm not, however, "dead set" on him being scum, as he claimed. That's all. I'm close to locked on Grapefruit being scum, and I'm locked on KZ being Town, but it's too early for any of my other reads to be perma-locks.
@EL, is there anyone who you would say, at a confidence of 75% or more, is scum? If so, why are you worrying about others and not just pushing that one person?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I'm fairly confident that Grapefruit is scum. I just haven't had much need to push him because plenty of other people seem to have come to the same conclusion independently, so I'd prefer to focus on others right now. There's not much for me to add to that conversation when we're this far from deadline; getting a better handle on some of my currently semi-null reads (Killjoy and Toast, fr'ex) is much more useful information for me at the moment.
Ok we can lynch Zion after Grapefruit
Well, sure but he didn't actually commit to a read on either of those. It was "Rod is kind of town but also rod and he does the same thing as scum" and Pa Tennis was "sometimes I think he's town and sometimes scum". But his absolute reads, like calling Toast "super town", were unexplained... and those are the kind of reads that need to be explained. You don't need to explain why you're null or basically null on someone because that's like the base read you have coming in.
Toast hasn't been here in like 5 days but I "disappeared"? Almost everyone was gone over the weekend, don't act like I've been gone for an irregular amount of time compared to other players
4 more days and I'll be home for a month. I'll give the game the attention it deserves then.
Meanwhile I will do my best to catch up.
Gonna at least try and skim some/most of the game tonight, and finish up over the next couple of days when I'm off work.
I don't like this response.
Later in your post you say "dismissing reads is SUPER scummy."
If it is indeed "SUPER" scummy, why are you not voting him for these reasons?
Also, why aren't you defending your actual reads as opposed to resorting to calling Pa scummy?
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Town can indeed omgus, but like I said with grapefruit, omgus is a subjective tell. It's situationally scummy, and needs proper context to be read as actual scummy behavior. Town can omgus too, but it's certainly not a towntell.
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I would say it's a fair town read at this point. I would need to re-read the thread and find the examples where we mind-meld to explain it fully, (which I'm not fully inclined to do atm), but a lot of my reasoning lays in your interactions with EL which I did make a large post on. My reservation lies in your reticence in voting.
What do you think about Rodemy's reaction to Pa's vote?
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To each their own then.
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Scum right now are Rodemy, Grapefruit, and quite possibly Killjoy. I would be perfectly fine lynching in here today. Find one scum, find them all.
Townblock is me, El, Shadow, Pa tennis, and possibly Tubba. Maybe Kabazame too, but enh. In essence, we should vote together for VCA purposes.
Neutral/null: Vaimes, Rhand
Come at me.
Anyone else hasn't done anything really impressionable for me to get a clear read on them. Although, I am getting townvibes from Toastboy. Jey should push people for things that are objectively more alignment indicative, but it's not my place to tell people how to play.
And no, I will not answer questions about pre-associatives, mostly because I have none, nor should I.
After giving Vaimes and Rhand their time, we should come to a consensus on who we should lynch.
@EL, but it isnt the same. Asking JeY about who she thinks your scumbuddies are is getting her to do work to add more info to the game. It is to get her mindset. Whereas you mentioning it without being asked feels like you are trying to project an air of "Look at me I am working so hard at being town by connecting all these threads!"... when all those threads could be useless. But I guess I can pull a Zionite here: why do you think certain people are aligned?
@Rhand, offtopic, you join the Navy?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
KJ felt almost too structured, I don't remember him sounding forced in previous games we've been in.
Kabaz gave his strongest townread as EL, but described it as a style that's often mislynchable (read: scummy) which seems like a strange way to qualify a town read. The way he's described his irritation with EL looks like true irritated town; this in particular looks like a town post: Like, his biggest town read is also who he is most frustrated with. Do you mean referring to Anak? As in "why is Anak vs Lurker TvT" cause EL and Lurker are the same person.
My read on him is "Seems okay, save for a few things that make me scowl". Ugh, I kinda think maybe that means he's scum? It depends a lot on if Grapefruit were to flip town and then if he went after Rod from there. (Of course, if Rod them flipped scum I'd just be completely wrong) Grapefruit, are you saying that you think OMGUS is a double tell for two scum cross voting? -_-
Vote Tubba Fett
This feels really forced. If Tubba flips scum I'd probably tinfoil zionite as a buddy, despite thinking he's town otherwise.
@Tubba: Why is zionite someone you're specifically interested in refining a read on?
KJ: Help me understand how you have me as top town and this is all you say about me...it just seems...incomplete.
To throw in my unwanted 2¢ into the thread, town hunting can be a great way to play. I'm not sold on it for myself as a primary strategy, but I've seen it work. Fair enough. As stated above, it feels like you're leaning on my opinions, which I'm just not used to.
As far as Rodemy's reaction...I'm writing Rod off as town because of early in the thread, so I'm obviously going to be biased, but it looks fine. It looks like Rodemy.
@Latin
What would be the point of Rodemy v Killjoy if they're partners?
@Toast
What does anaklusmos being nice to kabazame mean?
Well did anyone know it was me?
But with regards to townhunting, I agree with Grapefruit's above thoughts. I want to eventually get as good at it as Voxx is, but I'm nowhere near that yet. I'm still engaging my scumreads, which is a thing Voxx does not do.
...I don't actually recall seeing that post from Kaba. Quote it for me?
Like I said, I take issue with jumping on Grapefruit for beleiving Rodemy town based on that one statement but NOT also jumping on me, and further jumping on Rodemy, for me developing a potential scumread based on supposely nothing. I feel like you would agree with Rodemy if you were actually thinking that, and would not have said I was in an impossible position.
:/ Your scumblock is all people I have either town or leaning, and you include yourself in your townblock (which is just weird for me, as I don't usually include myself in T/S lists because why bother?) What the hell is your alignment??
...that's because apperently it was. Maybe I said it somewhere else in the post or something?
You're town in the same vein that Rodemy and Lurker are town.
No. Makes 100% sense though.
@Toastboy: Can you give a full reads list? You just keep giving "On Player X" and it makes it kinda hard to determine your reads on people in relation to other people.
Latin's asking you about what you think of KJ's reasoning, and you're saying your read will be affected based on my flip? How does that make sense? Town-KJ doesn't know how I'll flip, so he can't take that into account in his reasoning, so you can't take that into account when determining if he's Town. This is why I'ma have to trust most of you guys on reading Tubba. I can't figure out if that's scum behavior or new-player behavior; the two are generally indistinguishable to me.Boop, two posts after Anak's own vote. Grapefruit caught the similarities too.
I'd previously rated Zion as Null/scum based on my opinion that he wasn't posting a lot of content. I'm interested in refining my reads on everyone as information becomes available. I thought that was the point.
Is there a reason you don't want me refining my reads?
@Pa
I'm assuming you signed in with your alternate profile?
Anyway...
@EternalLurker I don't think their interactions makes them unaligned. If anything it feels like an artificial distancing, and anything artificial is
Also, why am I paired with Pa Tennis, again?
@Pa Tennis No, my reading on EternalLurker is based on my understanding of people in general. EternalLurker, as I would assume to be human, falls into this category.
@Rodemy I was already reading EternalLurker's posts with a fine-tooth comb at first and then it dawned on me, at that rate, it was going to take way too long to continue that strategy. Notice I didn't forgo a re-read, but just read faster halfway through and pointed out more important details. This seems like your weakest attack yet, and is making me worried that you're actually scum and not just bumbling about again.
@Toastboy I'm not looking for an "Eh, it wouldn't be so bad lynch" and I said that in my post. "Obviously I'm not about to lynch someone I think is town". I'll repeat myself: I sternly believe EternalLurker is scum.
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Lingerererer (LnGrrrR I have officially decided on the pronunciation I was debating earlier, if you don't like it I'll stop ), why did you ask those three people in particular?
Also I feel like the statement you're giving to EL here is important but I'm having trouble deciphering it, exactly. I feel like him going on about being potentially nightkilled seems scummy, but driving focus to a point about chain-reading which I don't exactly agree with, but I don't know what you're saying here.
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I see value in townhunting, since we're all weighing in on it, but I'm personally more focused on finding scum.
EDIT: Oh, and then Zionite just took the words out of my mouth.
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EL's #327 feels like a deflective response. EternalLurker was called out and is peeling himself.
So you want to ride the coat-tails of the bus without drawing too much attention to yourself? Because that's what would happen if the lynch went through without any momentum from you.
DOUBLE BUS POWERRRRRRR
Toastboy didn't have any pressure on him in the first place, really.
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I knew something felt familiar about Pa Tennis's posts ._.
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
Is this your full reasoning on Pa atm?
Why does wanting to refine a read on Zionite make tubba scum? This doesn't strike me as forced at all, why do you think it's forced?
Take me, someone new to the forum, why should I buy into what you're saying here?
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Tubba is one of the best examples of new-town I've seen in awhile. His play so far has been shockingly good for his first game.
Pa I can explain completely based off of behavior and voting.
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My reads are independent, each one of them, we can cross this bridge when we come to it, but right now on day one, asking me this is supporting a logical gap imo. Their interactions aren't the things I'm reading them scum for.
...lolwtf
If it's a "bus" rather than a wagon, as you claim, it serves me absolutely no purpose to allow it to happen without associating myself with it for Town-cred. So that'd be ridiculous.
If it's a wagon on a Townie, your very premise of me "riding its coat-tails" is false, because I was the very first vote on Grapefruit (actually, on Blues, pre-replacement) and have had no concerns about repeatedly calling him my scummiest read. I have readily associated myself with a Grapefruit lynch; I just haven't pushed it. I have no need to push something that's already rolling on its own, when my time is better spent elsewhere. (Not that you seem keen on letting me spend my time on more important matters....)
In either case, this is again nonsensical. That's...that's what you're reading out of that post?
Re: the point on EL, I can't outright say, "This is scummy and here is proof." But it feels scummy to me. It feels like he is trying to project an air that he has been putting all this work in, determining alignments and whatnot, when most of that work is lnt "real" because he doesnt have any facts. Something about chaining assumptions together makes me leery.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!