Hmm... so D_V v Lurker (now Ophidia), and D_V v myself, were actually TvT conflicts, and D_V's decisions make little sense to me knowing that. Olli*** and Audio were both replaced, so we'll see who comes into those slots (I'm still suspicious of Audio, though the D_V town flip is making me reconsider).
Looking through the voting history, I see one thing that particularly sticks out: Mog is the one that hammered D_V, but he provided no actual opinions regarding DV prior to that vote.
Bloodmoon checks out (IMO) on the vote there, as #6 on the wagon - he was reading scum on D_V prior. He actually had voted before that, as #4 (before Folza and Ophidia), before unvoting.
Nago, with the #5 vote, didn't give any indications of a scumread on D_V prior to voting, and wasn't mentioning him at all prior to that - his post in #354 was the last one prior to the vote, where he mentioned he thought that D_V v Lurker was TvT. The flip on that seems a bit sudden.
Ophidia was #4 on the D_V wagon, but scumread D_V from the start.
Folza, interestingly, was originally #4 before he switched his vote to Olli***.
I was #3 (if anyone is wondering), and I'm still willing to answer any questions about the vote previously.
Rhand was #2, and EL was the start of the wagon.
(Torg gets an honorable mention as #8, though he again provided little in relation to D_V prior to the vote.)
Blood's hop off of the wagon before coming back in at L-1 seems a bit funny to me, but explainable - Mog's hammer vote is far more suspicious in my mind. Vote: Mograppler
I had been suspicious of D_V for a long time prior to voting. He gave no counter evidence to what we're saying about him. It sounded very much like a defense attorney trying to get his client off on a technicality. I've been listening to a lot podcasts of court recordings lately and what he did sounded like the old fashioned, they didn't provide enough evidence, I want the case dismissed. They do it every time to try and convince the jury or judge that they didn't provide enough evidence, even when they clearly did. That was my reasoning for putting the hammer vote on D_V. I gave him plenty of time to say something with substance.
...Where is everyone at? Did they not notice that there were new posts here or something? And @Wheat_Grinder, did you ever find replacements for Olli*** and Audio?
And Mog, the issue is, you never said anything in regards to the D_V situation. You commented on him once when he first came in, based on a joking comment he made - even though you did post things after D_V joined in, you put your vote on Audio, went into lurk mode where you offered no real content, then came out of the blue to hammer D_V. If you were suspicious of him, why didn't you interject during the actual conversations there?
I was more suspicious of audio. He was who I wanted to lynch, but I was the only one left on him. D_V had brought up some interesting things, and I wasn't as sure about him being scum. I wanted to hear more from him, but he already had pressure on him and was talking a lot. I also was intimidated by the flame war, I don't do well in confrontations like that. Like I said, The nail in the coffin was that he never had any actually arguments to the stuff that people brought up. He already had 6 votes at the time, and the deadline was almost upon us.
Also, Blues, did you notice too that Nago used reasoning from before he said DV was town to later vote him as scum. You (Blues, #319) made those points thirty post before nago said DV was town, and then Nago used those same posts to say he was scum. #354 Nago reads EL and DV and TvT, then #384 says that DV is scum, referencing unanswered questions from #319 as to some of the reasoning why. It seems a little odd to me that it took him over 60 posts to go back to that and say he wanted more substance, and then deciding he was scum. Especially after saying he was town. Seems like a hard 180.
actually on review let's lynch blue unvote, vote blueseclipse
Well, can't dissagree with that logic. Vote: blueseclipse
@Blues Yeah, I didn't provide much inclination to vote for D_V before I did, which was because I really didn't have any. I was reading back through posts to find some content for the question that you asked me, and as I was looking, something clicked and I was like: "damn, this dude is scummy."
I don't have any regrets lynching him, since even if the arguments against him weren't good, his reasons not to lynch him were worse, or on occasion plain stupid. Also, when I posted it was about 2 hours from the deadline, so nothing I did was going to keep him from dying anyway.
@Meggido Welcome to the game! That said, if you could give a two sentence explanation of why you're doing what you're doing, that would be awesome.
Unvote. (the first thing I said was a joke, if any of you were wondering)
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@Mograppler: It was already confirmed by Wheat prior to your vote that there would be a lynch at the deadline regardless of whether anyone hit majority or not, based on who had the most votes. So saying 'the deadline was almost upon us' isn't relevant to anything. And if you agreed that he wasn't offering any real arguments to the points brought up, all that was needed was for you to say so - multiple people putting pressure on someone can get results that a single person would not.
@Megiddo: First, what is up with your avatar? It looks like a glitchy NES game almost. Second, welcome to the game. And third, would you care to offer any reasoning for the vote on me - or, for that matter, the prior vote on Mograppler?
@Bloodmoon0324: Yeah, that's exactly what's making me wonder about him - I'm hoping he'll show up soon so we can see what he has to say on the subject.
@Vaimes: Welcome to the game? When you get the chance, could you explain why you thought the D_V lynch was bad? It was a mislynch, but I do feel that my scumread on him was justified given what I'd cited previously.
@King Torg: Ugh... and now you've got me questioning the reason for your vote.
Also, when I posted it was about 2 hours from the deadline, so nothing I did was going to keep him from dying anyway.
Something like this leaves me questioning the merit of your vote - again, so long as he had the most votes at deadline, he would've been lynched regardless. This was in the initial rules, and confirmed by Wheat when there was confusion about that fact. Using the deadline as an argument for submitting the vote, with the ruleset we have, isn't relevant unless you're trying to get in without allowing people the chance to change their vote. And this...
Quote from King Torg »
nothing I did was going to keep him from dying anyway.
Saying this as part of your justification has me questioning whether you voted intending to hammer (and weren't aware of the number of votes), or whether you were hoping to be seen as on the wagon while trying to wash your hands of any responsibility for your vote by saying 'yeah, I voted for him with the rest of you, but I didn't do anything wrong because it didn't matter whether I voted or not'.
I said the deadline was upon us because it was. I had already said that I thought D_V was scum, and I was backing that statement up with my vote. Let's say D_V had flipped mafia, and I had made statements saying that i thought he was mafia, but didn't vote for him. You would be on me right now saying that I was trying to distance myself from him, but by not voting, I didn't want to help kill a fellow mafia. I thought about everything people said, including D_V saying that he thought you were mafia. I wasn't sure anymore; I wanted to get more information. But at the end of the day (literally) the evidence was pointing to D_V being scum. I wanted to back up my feelings and give everyone the most information that I could give, which was where I was putting my vote. Yes I could have sat back and not voted, and there would have been no difference in the end result, but I wanted to be part of the killing of the mafia. If I was scum, why would I put a huge target on myself by being the hammer vote if it was going to happen anyways?
No need to poke me! I'm alive and well, I just ended up accdientally getting busy after my V/LA announcement.
I'll be sure to be more active in the coming days for this game, that I can guarantee. However, like moast others, I cannot really form very many other opinions about the game state if there isn't very much activity. So let's get to some of my comments:
Welcome Megiddo! It's a pleasure to have someone experienced as yourself join us.
Welcome Vaimes! I hope you enjoy your stay and that you can get you re-reading done very soon. I look forward to hearing what you've got to say
With the information provided that the lynch on D-V didn't go well, I am still in favor of the previous Town opinion that Mograppler is scummy, but his response in post #443 indicates to me that many of are still trying to adjust to the game. It's really honestly too bad there has been so many replacements, but we cannot let that affect the final outcome.
For now, I cannot justify voting for anyone until I hear from the replacements and other folks who have not posted since Day 1.
Hmm... still very slow. Hopefully, we get a bit more dialogue going once Vaimes finishes his readthrough. That being said, Folza, you say you still agree that Mograppler is scum, yet you clearly aren't confident in that read - what is it that you're expecting to hear from some of the others, and why does your read on Mograppler hinge on that input?
@King Torg: Ugh... and now you've got me questioning the reason for your vote.
I do my best.
What I said was in no way a justification for my vote, and just as to blame as the rest of us. Since you've seen my play for the last four weeks, I assume you'd guess that I neither had the skill nor put in the effort to know the number of votes at the time. And if you guessed that, you would be 100% correct. (I assume hammering is putting in the last vote to prevent others from changing their votes, but correct me if I'm wrong) My vote had more of the intention of showing I supported a D_V lynch and read him as scummy, without just waiting for him to be scum and saying: "yup, I wanted to kill him." I'm realizing now that that's not really what my previous post expressed, so I'm sorry for that.
I was suspicious of fugg as scum D1, primarily because of what I think was his last post. He talked about his personality type not aligning with expressing opinions and things, which just seemed at the time to justify lurking. (again, correct me if I'm wrong about his post or something, I barely have the time to post right now, much less read back through 450 posts) Now that he's out, that read is less clear, but since it's the only lead I'm kinda confident on I'm gonna go for it. Vote: Vaimes
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"When I'm sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story"
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I don't like wallposting, but I also don't want to blow up the thread with like, twenty small posts, so. Here we go.
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Mog and his No Lynch spiel reads like cautious newbtown than mafia.
I don't really know what to make of the fact that several people jumped on him for going on about No Lynching, but people were pretty okay with him openly role-speculating? It feels like there's a weird double-standard there or something, dunno how to articulate it.
Checking in: I am Child of Alara, just chilling in the Maelstrom.
As a true WUBRG dopeboi, I have no alignment to any of the shards, and therefore no alignment with any of you.
I will reserve my vote until I have more information.
You've had a whole page of information, vastly more than anyone else who's voted thus far.
I don't wanna move my vote off of MysticSunray at the moment. Anyone else available to vote this WUBRG scum back into the Maelstrom from whence it came?
Dislike this.
Folza's entrance was fluffy and contained an RVS vote with no real mention of anything that happened page one, yet you didn't bat an eye at them. Even though Folza and my predecessor posted nearly at the same time.
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Man, the activity stalking (attacking people for being active elsewhere on the forum) on page two is bad, bad, bad. Don't do that. I understand why you think it's okay, but it's not.
at top right (just next to the thread title), "Tools" -> "Subscribe"
It's also rather impressive that you've now made three posts and still managed to avoid giving even a single opinion on what's happened over the last two pages.
This is overly harsh, and not even constructive to getting someone to participate. Especially when they're new.
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Kiiinda leaning town on nagobcnik, though I find him more "reasonable" than towny. The KingBacon thing was hilarious.
And yes, there are other problematic people, Folza being the most notable. I'm fine with piling onto Folza as well. But so far that hasn't happened, so Sunray seemed the best bet for getting a wagon going to focus the new players' attention onto something. There's no activity in this thread and having something (or someone) concrete to discuss will help with that.
If you think we can get something going on Folza, by all means lemme know and I'll move my vote there.
>Folza being the most notable
>has mentioned Folza maybe one time before this post
While I agree that Folza is scummy, I really dislike the way you're positioning yourself vis-a-vis that slot. It looks like you're saying "I'm prepared to bus my buddy if you guys REALLY want me to, but I'd rather keep my vote elsewhere!"
@nagobcnik: I understand your thoughts there, and accept your suspicion - the only time I want you to trust me unconditionally is after I've flipped town (and even then, it's still worth considering that I could reach the wrong conclusions when evaluating others). But you said you're unwilling to put more pressure on Sunray at the moment - do you believe it'll be best to put that pressure on Juls? Folza? Or someone else perhaps? At the moment, Juls, Folza and Sunray (or his slot, anyway) are my three strongest scumleans, so I'd prefer to get some pressure onto one of those three and get more info from them. If you think we should be looking elsewhere, then by all means feel free to offer alternatives.
swish
swish
swish
I think this is a town post. Mostly for the parentheses bit.
Blues, you joined in 2006 but only have a hundred posts? Who hurt you?
This game has been full of inactive players from the start, such as you. It'd be hilariously easy for Mafia to hide among them and get a free win.
So I cannot for the life of me figure out how you turn around and scum-read the person who's been trying his damnedest all game to ensure that the game doesn't devolve into a lurk-fest, even if it's required occasionally silly posts like #56 just to keep things going.
@new people, take notes: this behavior is completely NAI. Town do it to be helpful, mafia do it to look helpful. I've replaced into lurky games as scum and complained about the other players' lack of activity and pretty much skipped off to endgame for an easy victory, 'cause who can justify lynching one of the few active players?
Not saying EL is scum for this, but it looks an awful lot like he thinks he deserves to be townread for it, which sucks.
wait I just realized that DV and Rhand both replaced in and were immediately killed, this scumteam has no chill
They also have no balls and I'm guessing they want an easy win via town lurking itself to death. No dice.
god I'm only on page five
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Did I say Blues is town? I think Blues is town.
Wait, DV was scumreading EL too? I'm blessed.
hooo my god, if 235 isn't the queen of overreactions. Reposting for everyone's pleasure:
****in' A, apparently I should've just lurked if I wanted to be Town-read. The scum reads on me that you people are pulling from your asses are quite impressive in how completely they manage to ignore what's actually going on in the thread.
Contrast that with Eternal Lurker who is rapidly moving down on my scum list for his attempt to lynch anyone who he sees as trying to take the reigns from him.
Where the actual **** do you get this *****? Literally none of my votes have been on people who are trying to present themselves as town leaders. I've pressure-voted lurkers, and I worked with nago and BluesEclipse on building a wagon on one of the lurkers to get some activity going; I even switched over to nago's choice rather than forcing him to join mine. I've never once presented myself as the leader nor attacked anyone who's tried to do so. Present a ******* quote instead of talking out of your ass.
7. EternalLurker
I love eternal hes got it all imo.
First post vote a scum buddy? Check Second vote move to weak player and keep it there? Check. Set up speculation? Check. Defending himself or saying things that don't progress the game state? Check.
Talking about Flavor mechanics? Check. Voting another weak player? Check.
Any actual scum hunting noperino.
******* amazing.
"Vote a scum buddy"? You're chain-reading me off your scum-read of Mograppler, and the multiple posts I make after that are altogether far too much early interaction with Mograppler for there to be even the slightest chance he's my scum-buddy. I'd have to be idiotic and suicidal to spend several of my first posts like that. So chain-reading is trash, your particular chain is trash, and your scum-read on the first link of the chain is trash. This is a great start.
"Second vote"? What, you mean when I'm still RVS-ing early on to get people to post, cuz it's clear we've got a major lurking issue? Sure, read into RVS cuz that'll get you far.
"Set up speculation"? You mean respond to speculation? Are you even trying to read the thread?
"Defending himself"? I wouldn't have to keep doing that if y'all wouldn't keep making trash reads.
"Talking about Flavor mechanics"? You mean explaining that flavor generally doesn't matter in response to a newbie question about it? Again, READ.
"Voting another weak player"? Did you not ******* read how nago (the guy you are Town-reading) asked me to do that, LITERALLY ONE POST BEFORE? And how BluesEclipse (the other guy you are Town-reading) joined the two of us right afterwards, yet somehow my doing it is suspicious while him doing it is fine in your books?
Incredibly stupid ***** like this is why I'm forced to waste posts and time and sanity defending myself.
9. Mograppler
I've talked about this before. They just ooze scum.
Your entire "read" was based on his focus on a Day One No Lynch (unless there's more information you'd like to share, but you say you've "talked about this before" and that was all you mentioned). We all discussed this already. You can scum-read it if you'd like, but it's possibly an honest mistake, and given that almost everything he's posted since then has been pretty Townie, it's best to give him the benefit of the doubt on that. Unless you'd like to continue picking and choosing your evidence on him as you have on me, so that his one early mistake is a scum-tell and every post he's made since then is irrelevant for you.
MOLEGRAPPLER! YOUR'E OBVIOUSLY SCUM! Don't try to deny it because I have undisputable evidence that you don't even know exists yet! You should just confess now and get it over with.
This just reads as scum to me.
So with that said Unvote Vote King Torg
...Jesus.
**** the Folza wagon; my vote's going back to the slot where it's always belonged.
Vote: D_V
Vote: EternalLurker
Highly doubt my vote will be changing toDay, but I'm open to discussion.
I'll post the rest of my catchup in a separate post because ending here with a vote is super dramatic.
Like people were obviously townreading EL early on for being active, helpful, and writing a lot of words. I tend to do that more often than not, writing off people like him as town, so I understand how tempting it is to not bat an eye and let him be the town leader. But you know what? That's just too damn bad, because mafia can and will do their best to look towny to make it super hard to justify lynching them. Especially when there's a bunch of town lurking.
I know EL said something like "mafia can lurk for an ez victory" but if he actually did that, then there'd be a greater chance of him getting lollynched.
Sorry if this comes off as "trust no one all of your reads will be wrong forever." Just...try not to rely on superficial tells too much. Activity/helpfulness/long posts =/= town. I pointed out a bunch of scummy ***** EL was getting away with in the first half of the game, feel free to look it over and explain why you agree/disagree.
I'd rather EL didn't engage me on his own alignment, because 1) I refuse to wall-war with anyone, and 2) I know he's already suspecting my slot and this'll turn into a huge NOU. I'm happy to talk to him about other players, though.
(fake edit: whoops, EL is no longer in this game. All the stuff I wrote @ him is now kinda useless but I'm not gonna edit it out because it has stuff I want to say to everyone in the game, so. Shrug)
Ohla that's omgus if I ever saw any.
@EL: do you often react aggressively when someone accuses you?
OMGUS? The hell? He voted Torg, not me.
Another tip @ the new players: people can OMGUS vote even if a vote was never actually cast on them in the first place. It's all about the attitude of the accusee towards their accuser. EL's reaction to DV is very, very much OMGUS. You can replace the last part of "Oh my god you suck...for voting me" with "...for suspecting me" and it still fits like a glove.
I hate to say it because I'm not quite ready to end the day yet
Honestly, I don't mind ending Day One early. Scum has a massive information advantage on Day One, so, the longer it goes on, the more time they have to spread misinformation. As far as I'm concerned, Day One should generally be:
1) No Lynch, if we have lots of investigative Town roles who can do good work on Night One. We have no confirmation that's the case here, so that's not an option.
or
2) a quick lynch on the most blatantly scummy person, to limit the damage that scum can do with their information advantage.
Day Two is usually the longest day in my experience, as that gives Town the best balance of numerical advantage and information with which to work.
Regarding the vote count, only two people's votes have changed (you, and D_V twice). That's technically "five" on D_V, though it's really four.
WHAT?
Do you actually believe this? I'm going to be sad if you say yes.
Day 1 sets the stage for literally the rest of the game. Scum's TMI is a DISADVANTAGE that they are trying to HIDE, so if anything, Day 1 sucks for scum because they don't want to reveal that they have inside information. Going straight to Night means scum don't have to make votes, justify those votes, and show a logical progression of reads on everyone else.
So like...what??
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I'm gonna start skipping wallposts, sorry, it's late and I'm tired. Please learn to condense.
DV lynch was bad because there was no legitimate case on him. He was more or less forced into a self-defense loop and people kept attacking him for it, rinse and repeat.
Also Mog definitely feels like toDay's designated mislynch bait.
(I mash up replacements and predecessors when I track votes. Except for my slot, because "fuggvaimes" doesn't sound very nice.)
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Can everyone do the following for me?
0) Be a bit more active, or town will lose. Period.
1) State who you believe is most likely to be on the mafia team.
2) State why you believe that. Doesn't have to be a wall.
3) Vote for them.
I'm torn between a few that I think are most likely to be scum. One is Ophidia because we can't discredit what happened when EL was here. There at the end he kinda flew off the handle really bad before Ophidia replaced. And yes, I know they're two different people, but we can't sit here and act like nothing EL said is important for Ophidia's slot.
The second person is Nago. One, because he hard 180'ed on us all with DV. (Obviously, we were all wrong and I wish I had more experience so that I could feel players better) and the other is because now he is lurking. He has very specific questions directed his way because of the way he turned. I pointed it out earlier in a post, (438 for those who are curious) and still we've heard nothing. He isn't V/LA or at least he didn't announce it to the thread that I saw (Wheat, can you confirm whether he pmed you on being V/LA) and now that we are questioning him he isn't answering. It felt less like he was really scum reading him and more like "okay, time to join this wagon to lynch town!"
The third person that I am questioning hard is Torg. The way that he responded to Blues has me bothered. He nonchalantly says his vote on DV didn't really matter but chose to throw it on there anyway. Blues addresses it pretty well in 441. Why? If you knew him having the most votes didn't really matter, why throw it on there, especially with no justification? (Again, I now understand that the DV lynch was bad.)
Nago bothers me the most of the three. He's not answering, and that flip all of a sudden feels wrong. vote Nago
@Vaimes: I forget exactly why I signed up initially - I think it was for some custom card creation thing, or maybe something to do with RoboRosewater? I'm not sure. Until recently, though, I was only really visiting the site for spoilers, and rarely hitting the forums.
Regarding the lynch on D_V, I explained to him in detail why I felt his actions were scum, and gave him opportunity to explain why they are not - his responses came down to 'there is no case on me' or 'you're too new at this and don't understand good play'. I can't speak for anyone else's reasoning, but that was why I was pushing for that lynch.
As for Ophidia/EL, I'm convinced that it's a townslot, and will hold to that decision unless proven otherwise.
At the moment, I'm still inclined to say that Mograppler seems scummy to me - I'll do a reread of everything (rather than just focusing on the last page or two) and see if I still come to that conclusion, though. (I'm tempted to put a vote on Bloodmoon just because he hasn't gotten any yet, but I don't really have a justification for it at the moment.)
Yep. Anyways,
Rhand, BluesEclipse, JulsSkogs, Ophidia, nagobcnik, King Torg, and Mog are the ones voting D_V at the time of the lynch.
Of the bunch, Rhand and I are town, and that leaves Blues, Juls, Nago, King Torg and mog.
Considering that king torg and mogg kinda jumped on the wagon and hammered D_V, and mogg said that the deadline is coming up despite the fact that he said nolynch at the beginning, it is pretty apparent that mogg is a newscum.
Attention all yoctograms, Osieorb18 is present and abiding. Have no fear, for I am here!
Will be doing a full catch up tonight/tomorrow morning; I already read over the game a while ago but need to take better notes, and get my T/S list going.
Let me know if you guys want me to address anything specific.
Thanks wheat for the update. Welcome Osie! Hopefully adding you will help bring life back to the game. I wish you could answer the questions that I raised in regards to the previous player in your slot, but I know you cannot tell me what was going through his mind.
@Vaimes Its hard for me to think of ELphidia as scum because of how hard he flamed out against DV. When someone gets that into accusing someone, I find it remarkably hard to believe that he was lying. (I think I phrased it better in a previous post, but I don't have enough time to find it) Even if he is/was scum, then he was willing to sacrifice himself to accuse one townie, which just seems dumb. All of your points against him seem logically sound, but I don't think they're enough to justify lynching.
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@Vaimes: Sorry for the delay - life got in the way of my reread. Looking over Mog's posting, I still have the feeling that he's scum. He's shown a pattern of voting with no real comments or indications of suspicion towards the people he's voted, and the rationale he gives is entirely parroting whatever the others who have voted on the same wagon have given - see his vote on Sunray in #124 (when Sunray was tied for most votes - all he did was say he agreed with Lurker's analysis, when his prior posts didn't even mention Sunray save for his absence), Folza in #165 (no reason given at all and Folza had 3 votes prior to that), and his vote on D_V. His only vote that was not jumping on a wagon was on Audio.
As for why I thought EL/Ophidia is town, it's largely due to Lurker's posting throughout the thread. I didn't necessarily agree with all of his conclusions, though I can understand his line of thought, and it always looked to come from the standpoint of 'what will be in the best interest of the town'. I don't condone his delivery of some of the points, but that has already been addressed (by Wheat forcibly replacing him), but the logic behind them was definitely town. Ophidia's line of thought, thus far, has followed that thread as well.
As for why I disagree with your specific scumreads on Lurker:
You say that it's a scumtell that he called out Olli***, but didn't call out Folza - but Folza provided an RVS vote at the tail end of RVS (and on Lurker, no less), while Olli*** simply didn't vote. Are you suggesting that Lurker should have called out Folza as well for providing a vote - or that he could have done so without getting called out himself for OMGUS?
At the time that he mentioned Folza as the most notable of the 'problem players' - I.E. players who were posting infrequently, Folza was the most notable - he was posting just enough to keep from being prodded, yet adamantly not offering anything in the way of information or opinions (even when explicitly asked for opinions). And where you see his comment being that he was willing to bus a scumbuddy if absolutely necessary, keep in mind that Nago was asking for his opinion of several other players - Lurker chose to single out Folza as a viable option to build a pressure wagon on. He could just as easily tried to push Nago's attention towards Skogs, or even Mog.
Lurker's comment at the time that he voted for Folza makes sense - his vote on Sunray was a carry over from the tail end of RVS stage with only a small number of posts to judge by. While it seemed scummy, knowing that the player was replacing out due to lack of posting, it makes sense to question whether it was scumplay or simply a new player making mistakes, and wanting to see whether the replacement also looked scummy is appropriate. It was essentially saying 'Vote for Folza until I see if my other scumread was a false positive due to newbness.'
You claimed his #235 as 'the queen of overreactions'. However, given that the emotion that was evoked there continued to build to the point where Lurker was forcibly replaced, I can't help but feel that it was honest as opposed to being faked. And while I can see scum trying to appeal to emotion, or to fake emotional responses as a deflection tactic, I can't see it being pushed to the point of getting kicked from the game.
Overall, you've only provided opinions on Mog, Lurkerphida, Folza, and myself. What about the rest of the field?
@Ophidia: You say that Rhand and yourself are town - can I ask what it is that's got you townreading Rhand so strongly?
@osieorb18: I resent that! I am not a yoctogram - I am clearly a zeptoliter. That being said, welcome! Also, what is that first GIF of? I could swear it's something I've seen before, but I cannot for the life of me think of where it's from.
That said, I'll hold any questions for you until I see what you have to provide here.
@JulsSkogs: Good luck in your tournament!
@Everyone Who Is Not Posting Anything Relevant: Please. Post something. Your town needs you... even if you're scum.
@Wheat_Grinder: You may want to remove Vaimes from the available replacements list in the first post when you update it next. I don't think he can replace in for anybody else.
Ophidia has felt scummy to me ever since he joined. The only think that is keeping me from voting is that I had a strong read that EL was town. Ophidia has made lots of statements but doesn't have much content. and he comes in and still is on the no lynch thing that I have explained many times. God it's really hard to keep track of everybody. More than half of the people have been switched out.
@King Torg you say that you don't believe that that is enough to vote for a lynch, who would you consider voting for. With less than a week left you are going to have to have enough evidence to vote for someone.
For me it is between meg and Ophidia.
I was suspicious of fugg as scum D1, primarily because of what I think was his last post. He talked about his personality type not aligning with expressing opinions and things, which just seemed at the time to justify lurking. (again, correct me if I'm wrong about his post or something, I barely have the time to post right now, much less read back through 450 posts) Now that he's out, that read is less clear, but since it's the only lead I'm kinda confident on I'm gonna go for it. Vote: Vaimes
I'm pretty sure I'm one of the three people who have actually cast a vote today.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"When I'm sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story"
-Barney Stinson
Looking through the voting history, I see one thing that particularly sticks out: Mog is the one that hammered D_V, but he provided no actual opinions regarding DV prior to that vote.
Bloodmoon checks out (IMO) on the vote there, as #6 on the wagon - he was reading scum on D_V prior. He actually had voted before that, as #4 (before Folza and Ophidia), before unvoting.
Nago, with the #5 vote, didn't give any indications of a scumread on D_V prior to voting, and wasn't mentioning him at all prior to that - his post in #354 was the last one prior to the vote, where he mentioned he thought that D_V v Lurker was TvT. The flip on that seems a bit sudden.
Ophidia was #4 on the D_V wagon, but scumread D_V from the start.
Folza, interestingly, was originally #4 before he switched his vote to Olli***.
I was #3 (if anyone is wondering), and I'm still willing to answer any questions about the vote previously.
Rhand was #2, and EL was the start of the wagon.
(Torg gets an honorable mention as #8, though he again provided little in relation to D_V prior to the vote.)
Blood's hop off of the wagon before coming back in at L-1 seems a bit funny to me, but explainable - Mog's hammer vote is far more suspicious in my mind. Vote: Mograppler
And Mog, the issue is, you never said anything in regards to the D_V situation. You commented on him once when he first came in, based on a joking comment he made - even though you did post things after D_V joined in, you put your vote on Audio, went into lurk mode where you offered no real content, then came out of the blue to hammer D_V. If you were suspicious of him, why didn't you interject during the actual conversations there?
joined too early to coast to victory
joined just in time to destroy the scumteam
vote mograppler
unvote, vote blueseclipse
Um, please explain?
Also, Blues, did you notice too that Nago used reasoning from before he said DV was town to later vote him as scum. You (Blues, #319) made those points thirty post before nago said DV was town, and then Nago used those same posts to say he was scum. #354 Nago reads EL and DV and TvT, then #384 says that DV is scum, referencing unanswered questions from #319 as to some of the reasoning why. It seems a little odd to me that it took him over 60 posts to go back to that and say he wanted more substance, and then deciding he was scum. Especially after saying he was town. Seems like a hard 180.
Just based on this page alone, DV lynch was superbad.
Well, can't dissagree with that logic. Vote: blueseclipse
@Blues Yeah, I didn't provide much inclination to vote for D_V before I did, which was because I really didn't have any. I was reading back through posts to find some content for the question that you asked me, and as I was looking, something clicked and I was like: "damn, this dude is scummy."
I don't have any regrets lynching him, since even if the arguments against him weren't good, his reasons not to lynch him were worse, or on occasion plain stupid. Also, when I posted it was about 2 hours from the deadline, so nothing I did was going to keep him from dying anyway.
@Meggido Welcome to the game! That said, if you could give a two sentence explanation of why you're doing what you're doing, that would be awesome.
Unvote. (the first thing I said was a joke, if any of you were wondering)
-Barney Stinson
"Hodor"
-Hodor
@Megiddo: First, what is up with your avatar? It looks like a glitchy NES game almost. Second, welcome to the game. And third, would you care to offer any reasoning for the vote on me - or, for that matter, the prior vote on Mograppler?
@Bloodmoon0324: Yeah, that's exactly what's making me wonder about him - I'm hoping he'll show up soon so we can see what he has to say on the subject.
@Vaimes: Welcome to the game? When you get the chance, could you explain why you thought the D_V lynch was bad? It was a mislynch, but I do feel that my scumread on him was justified given what I'd cited previously.
@King Torg: Ugh... and now you've got me questioning the reason for your vote. Something like this leaves me questioning the merit of your vote - again, so long as he had the most votes at deadline, he would've been lynched regardless. This was in the initial rules, and confirmed by Wheat when there was confusion about that fact. Using the deadline as an argument for submitting the vote, with the ruleset we have, isn't relevant unless you're trying to get in without allowing people the chance to change their vote. And this... Saying this as part of your justification has me questioning whether you voted intending to hammer (and weren't aware of the number of votes), or whether you were hoping to be seen as on the wagon while trying to wash your hands of any responsibility for your vote by saying 'yeah, I voted for him with the rest of you, but I didn't do anything wrong because it didn't matter whether I voted or not'.
Vote Moggrappler
Will try to read/comment on at least some of the game within the next few hours.
I'll be sure to be more active in the coming days for this game, that I can guarantee. However, like moast others, I cannot really form very many other opinions about the game state if there isn't very much activity. So let's get to some of my comments:
Welcome Megiddo! It's a pleasure to have someone experienced as yourself join us.
Welcome Vaimes! I hope you enjoy your stay and that you can get you re-reading done very soon. I look forward to hearing what you've got to say
With the information provided that the lynch on D-V didn't go well, I am still in favor of the previous Town opinion that Mograppler is scummy, but his response in post #443 indicates to me that many of are still trying to adjust to the game. It's really honestly too bad there has been so many replacements, but we cannot let that affect the final outcome.
For now, I cannot justify voting for anyone until I hear from the replacements and other folks who have not posted since Day 1.
other than Vaimes, who I know, is everybody else here new?
What I said was in no way a justification for my vote, and just as to blame as the rest of us. Since you've seen my play for the last four weeks, I assume you'd guess that I neither had the skill nor put in the effort to know the number of votes at the time. And if you guessed that, you would be 100% correct. (I assume hammering is putting in the last vote to prevent others from changing their votes, but correct me if I'm wrong) My vote had more of the intention of showing I supported a D_V lynch and read him as scummy, without just waiting for him to be scum and saying: "yup, I wanted to kill him." I'm realizing now that that's not really what my previous post expressed, so I'm sorry for that.
I was suspicious of fugg as scum D1, primarily because of what I think was his last post. He talked about his personality type not aligning with expressing opinions and things, which just seemed at the time to justify lurking. (again, correct me if I'm wrong about his post or something, I barely have the time to post right now, much less read back through 450 posts) Now that he's out, that read is less clear, but since it's the only lead I'm kinda confident on I'm gonna go for it.
Vote: Vaimes
-Barney Stinson
"Hodor"
-Hodor
(It's my day off and I as running a bunch of errands, but I'm home and free for the next few hours. I'll be caught up shortly.)
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Mog and his No Lynch spiel reads like cautious newbtown than mafia.
I don't really know what to make of the fact that several people jumped on him for going on about No Lynching, but people were pretty okay with him openly role-speculating? It feels like there's a weird double-standard there or something, dunno how to articulate it.
Dislike this.
Folza's entrance was fluffy and contained an RVS vote with no real mention of anything that happened page one, yet you didn't bat an eye at them. Even though Folza and my predecessor posted nearly at the same time.
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Man, the activity stalking (attacking people for being active elsewhere on the forum) on page two is bad, bad, bad. Don't do that. I understand why you think it's okay, but it's not.
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Want to say EL and Jules aren't scum together.
This is overly harsh, and not even constructive to getting someone to participate. Especially when they're new.
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Kiiinda leaning town on nagobcnik, though I find him more "reasonable" than towny. The KingBacon thing was hilarious.
>Folza being the most notable
>has mentioned Folza maybe one time before this post
While I agree that Folza is scummy, I really dislike the way you're positioning yourself vis-a-vis that slot. It looks like you're saying "I'm prepared to bus my buddy if you guys REALLY want me to, but I'd rather keep my vote elsewhere!"
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swish
swish
swish
I think this is a town post. Mostly for the parentheses bit.
Blues, you joined in 2006 but only have a hundred posts? Who hurt you?
Booooooo.
DV save me please
That feel when someone with two posts is the only other person scumreading EL. This is gonna be fun.
@new people, take notes: this behavior is completely NAI. Town do it to be helpful, mafia do it to look helpful. I've replaced into lurky games as scum and complained about the other players' lack of activity and pretty much skipped off to endgame for an easy victory, 'cause who can justify lynching one of the few active players?
Not saying EL is scum for this, but it looks an awful lot like he thinks he deserves to be townread for it, which sucks.
wait I just realized that DV and Rhand both replaced in and were immediately killed, this scumteam has no chill
They also have no balls and I'm guessing they want an easy win via town lurking itself to death. No dice.
god I'm only on page five
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Did I say Blues is town? I think Blues is town.
Wait, DV was scumreading EL too? I'm blessed.
hooo my god, if 235 isn't the queen of overreactions. Reposting for everyone's pleasure:
Highly doubt my vote will be changing toDay, but I'm open to discussion.
I'll post the rest of my catchup in a separate post because ending here with a vote is super dramatic.
I know EL said something like "mafia can lurk for an ez victory" but if he actually did that, then there'd be a greater chance of him getting lollynched.
Sorry if this comes off as "trust no one all of your reads will be wrong forever." Just...try not to rely on superficial tells too much. Activity/helpfulness/long posts =/= town. I pointed out a bunch of scummy ***** EL was getting away with in the first half of the game, feel free to look it over and explain why you agree/disagree.
I'd rather EL didn't engage me on his own alignment, because 1) I refuse to wall-war with anyone, and 2) I know he's already suspecting my slot and this'll turn into a huge NOU. I'm happy to talk to him about other players, though.
(fake edit: whoops, EL is no longer in this game. All the stuff I wrote @ him is now kinda useless but I'm not gonna edit it out because it has stuff I want to say to everyone in the game, so. Shrug)
Rhand save me
Another tip @ the new players: people can OMGUS vote even if a vote was never actually cast on them in the first place. It's all about the attitude of the accusee towards their accuser. EL's reaction to DV is very, very much OMGUS. You can replace the last part of "Oh my god you suck...for voting me" with "...for suspecting me" and it still fits like a glove.
Or okay I guess Rhand said it more concisely.
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WHAT?
Do you actually believe this? I'm going to be sad if you say yes.
Day 1 sets the stage for literally the rest of the game. Scum's TMI is a DISADVANTAGE that they are trying to HIDE, so if anything, Day 1 sucks for scum because they don't want to reveal that they have inside information. Going straight to Night means scum don't have to make votes, justify those votes, and show a logical progression of reads on everyone else.
So like...what??
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I'm gonna start skipping wallposts, sorry, it's late and I'm tired. Please learn to condense.
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**** me, EL got replaced, okay uh. Hi Ophidia.
Vote: Ophidia
And now I'm caught up.
meg save me
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@Blue
DV lynch was bad because there was no legitimate case on him. He was more or less forced into a self-defense loop and people kept attacking him for it, rinse and repeat.
Also Mog definitely feels like toDay's designated mislynch bait.
Fun fact, you are the only living player that has received 0 votes this game.
Vaimes (1): KingTorg (#452)
ELphidia (1): Vaimes (#455)
Mog (2): Blues (#428), ELphidia (#442)
Abstaining (5): Juls, Bacon, Folza, Mog, Bloodmoon
(I mash up replacements and predecessors when I track votes. Except for my slot, because "fuggvaimes" doesn't sound very nice.)
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Can everyone do the following for me?
0) Be a bit more active, or town will lose. Period.
1) State who you believe is most likely to be on the mafia team.
2) State why you believe that. Doesn't have to be a wall.
3) Vote for them.
I will explain some time soon but I have a lot to do this week and the next. Sorry.
The second person is Nago. One, because he hard 180'ed on us all with DV. (Obviously, we were all wrong and I wish I had more experience so that I could feel players better) and the other is because now he is lurking. He has very specific questions directed his way because of the way he turned. I pointed it out earlier in a post, (438 for those who are curious) and still we've heard nothing. He isn't V/LA or at least he didn't announce it to the thread that I saw (Wheat, can you confirm whether he pmed you on being V/LA) and now that we are questioning him he isn't answering. It felt less like he was really scum reading him and more like "okay, time to join this wagon to lynch town!"
The third person that I am questioning hard is Torg. The way that he responded to Blues has me bothered. He nonchalantly says his vote on DV didn't really matter but chose to throw it on there anyway. Blues addresses it pretty well in 441. Why? If you knew him having the most votes didn't really matter, why throw it on there, especially with no justification? (Again, I now understand that the DV lynch was bad.)
Nago bothers me the most of the three. He's not answering, and that flip all of a sudden feels wrong.
vote Nago
Ophidia - please revote so that your vote gets counted via the program (instead of me manually adjusting).
BluesEclipse - 1 (Megiddo)
Mograppler - 2 (BluesEclipse, Ophidia)
nagobcnik - 1 (Bloodmoon0324)
Ophidia - 1 (Vaimes)
Vaimes - 1 (King Torg)
Not Voting - 4 (JulsSkogs, nagobcnik, Folza, Mograppler)
Regarding the lynch on D_V, I explained to him in detail why I felt his actions were scum, and gave him opportunity to explain why they are not - his responses came down to 'there is no case on me' or 'you're too new at this and don't understand good play'. I can't speak for anyone else's reasoning, but that was why I was pushing for that lynch.
As for Ophidia/EL, I'm convinced that it's a townslot, and will hold to that decision unless proven otherwise.
At the moment, I'm still inclined to say that Mograppler seems scummy to me - I'll do a reread of everything (rather than just focusing on the last page or two) and see if I still come to that conclusion, though. (I'm tempted to put a vote on Bloodmoon just because he hasn't gotten any yet, but I don't really have a justification for it at the moment.)
Could you at least point out why my points against ELphidia may be bad/incorrect?
Rhand, BluesEclipse, JulsSkogs, Ophidia, nagobcnik, King Torg, and Mog are the ones voting D_V at the time of the lynch.
Of the bunch, Rhand and I are town, and that leaves Blues, Juls, Nago, King Torg and mog.
Considering that king torg and mogg kinda jumped on the wagon and hammered D_V, and mogg said that the deadline is coming up despite the fact that he said nolynch at the beginning, it is pretty apparent that mogg is a newscum.
I'm tabulating prods now.
Will be doing a full catch up tonight/tomorrow morning; I already read over the game a while ago but need to take better notes, and get my T/S list going.
Let me know if you guys want me to address anything specific.
Heart, Heart, Wink, and Point! Over and out.
-Barney Stinson
"Hodor"
-Hodor
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
As for why I thought EL/Ophidia is town, it's largely due to Lurker's posting throughout the thread. I didn't necessarily agree with all of his conclusions, though I can understand his line of thought, and it always looked to come from the standpoint of 'what will be in the best interest of the town'. I don't condone his delivery of some of the points, but that has already been addressed (by Wheat forcibly replacing him), but the logic behind them was definitely town. Ophidia's line of thought, thus far, has followed that thread as well.
As for why I disagree with your specific scumreads on Lurker:
Overall, you've only provided opinions on Mog, Lurkerphida, Folza, and myself. What about the rest of the field?
@Ophidia: You say that Rhand and yourself are town - can I ask what it is that's got you townreading Rhand so strongly?
@osieorb18: I resent that! I am not a yoctogram - I am clearly a zeptoliter. That being said, welcome! Also, what is that first GIF of? I could swear it's something I've seen before, but I cannot for the life of me think of where it's from.
That said, I'll hold any questions for you until I see what you have to provide here.
@JulsSkogs: Good luck in your tournament!
@Everyone Who Is Not Posting Anything Relevant: Please. Post something. Your town needs you... even if you're scum.
@Wheat_Grinder: You may want to remove Vaimes from the available replacements list in the first post when you update it next. I don't think he can replace in for anybody else.
@King Torg you say that you don't believe that that is enough to vote for a lynch, who would you consider voting for. With less than a week left you are going to have to have enough evidence to vote for someone.
For me it is between meg and Ophidia.
I'm pretty sure I'm one of the three people who have actually cast a vote today.
-Barney Stinson
"Hodor"
-Hodor