I think we may be onto something with GJ+Pizza, enough that Pizza got scared enough to make a mistake like suggest there's a day chat.
We are not onto anything.
Talk to me about your GJ read? FYI, day chat being a norm is a thing on other sites, I wouldn't put much stock into it. Frankly, if I was going to read anything into it, it would be that pizza isn't scum for not knowing that day that wasn't a thing.
I felt that anyone starting as late as GJ should, on average, have more content in their posts. I can do a PBPA once I get back on my computer. He's also scum by POE as Anak has better post quality in a similar number of posts, and you're town unless something dumb is going on.
Pizza, your biggest reason for clearing GJ yesterday was because you thought I was scum, but upon realizing I'm town, you didn't hardly give him a second glance, why?
Gentleman Johnny always looks townier than Anak for the way Anak hammered. He wasted all of yesterday. He was skating.
That doesn't mean GJ was clear, and I can't individually lock clear him based on his behavior like I could for Tom and like I could for randwolf.
There just isn't enough data to reasonably accomplish this.
What I can do, on the other hand, is weigh him against the other unclear slots.
You suddenly being lock clear makes things much easier, as I only have the three suspects. Osie, who I've already laid out why they're scummy this game, Anak, whose behavior I went into greater detail on.
Essentially, the reason why not Gentleman Johnny is the same reason today as it was yesterday.
Yesterday you were lock scum with osie, based on all the available data to me. Then, in a distant third was Anak, based on his slightly weak opening post and his deliberate skating. But his opening today also takes the cake because his previous posts predict that we'd still be deliberating this on day 3, when he was lynching people he suspected to be scum, or so he claimed.
That's problematic.
GJ doesn't have a chance to really behave like a scum this game. He can't get lock clear, but Osie's vote sure suggests you're not scum with him. Stuff like that I can read into easily. Then, cold reading his posts, it looks like solving to me.
Examine the difference between how GJ cleared me and how Anak did for me, and for you.
GJ made a solid read and stuck with it, because it's a real read. Anak cleared me and he town read you. Then he proceeded to vote for you, and set up several posts walking back his town read of me, while not explicitly pushing that idea.
That's not a townie process.
GJ's process looks townie. Yours did not. You get to be clear mechanically though, and thank balls for that.
While there was a nonzero chance I would have gotten there, it would have been a gutsy guess based on Anak's behavior and Osie's behavior and the fact that you and I are still alive. But Osie slipping with the tally makes it obvious.
Now I'm sitting in a very pretty spot. My slot can see easily that it's gotta be Osie and Anak based on their behavior, and that GJ is significantly townier than both of them.
This isn't even a difficult round for me. It's all obvious from my POV.
You and GJ have to get there on your own, but I'm ready to not suck for the first time. Although I must say, I might be the first townie in the game to legitimately scum read osie, whereas tom and yourself did not get that read right.
So, in general, town played bad and got there, and I don't have to feel completely ashamed of this game, I knew going in it would be mega hard for town to win.
But killing rand, and voting pizza-anak, makes the game super clear to me. Those were both horrendous mistakes by that wolf team.
Also, how am I going to scum read Anak-slot on d1? Just not likely.
So I don't even think town got a fair d1 this game due to the 2 inactive slots. And that's super neutering to any accurate analysis.
I was hoping I could cold read the active people and I didn't get there on osie until later and I was not getting there on you based on your posts.
They look bad, and I said why. You can tell easily that I believed those reasons. I believed them to the point of being overconfident, because both you and osie posted less on d2 and it looked like you were shook.
If you've ever been town in that situation you style all over your wolves there. Thats what I was doing, burying my scums so town wins.
Sadly, it's taking me 3 guesses to get there. But there was always a strong chance of that.
This endgame is actually great. You should not expect to have gotten such a partially solved endgame in a typical game of this setup.
We have so few pairs to actually examine. Those mislynches were not the worst ones we could have gotten because they preclude so many worlds.
And if I at least look townie as hell right now, that's also helping you and GJ get there.
So even if we took bruises, if this guess is right, town did a successful process. You guess and guess and solve. That's what I tried to do anyway.
I'd love to have gotten there on Osie d1 (I partially did) and Anak, but Anak wasn't there.
We were never getting there day 1.
Day 2 is where analysis is more relevant. Day 2 looks much clearer. You can see all of my intent, you can see osie's and anak's, and you can even judge GJ's performance.
Give me every slot being somewhat active and I can do this. Make it blind darts with an active scummy looking townie and I can't.
But I'd lean 90 percent GJ-Osie is not the team. I put so much effort into this and I always pull that trigger on Anak-Osie versus GJ-Osie. It's a truly significant difference.
If it's GJ-Osie then my reads are just ***** and they're not. It may not look like it right now, but my track record of finding townies and scums even in unfamiliar environments is good.
I am confident here on this read. I blame the inactivity and the fact that, well, your process doesn't look like other games. Not blaming you, just saying that's an easy false positive for me to get trapped in.
Heads up, as it is summer, and in Norway the sun is up at 11pm and up at 3am this time of year, my sleep cycle is all wacky right now. I've been sleeping mid-day. I will be here to talk to GJ and Shadow as much as you guys need, but the times I'm going to do it will be out of pattern.
Osie brings up a really valid point, how do you have any idea scum have daychat?
Scum always have 24 hour chat where I play. In fact, it's been so long that I forgot I didn't have day chat in FF Mafia.
It's utterly irrelevant to the game, because this could be out of character deliberate derpclearing attempts from me. So you cannot clear me based on this supposed lack of knowledge and this is yet another reason why derpclearing people is a bad policy.
If you can't focus on the meat of the posts and derive alignment from that, then you're just trying to peek behind the curtain. Not you, players in general.
It's a really poor policy to think about derp clears in this manner and I don't think I'll ever fit in with this site's meta if this is what takes up space in posts instead of substantive discussion, tbqh.
That post is quoted to anaklusmos but it's really directed at my town reads.
Ignore the yickiness of derp clears, and alignment read me by my posts's solving content only.
All of this horsing around with scum chats and accusations of cheating are super bad for a casual game anyway. If we're going to win or lose, let it be based off of something we really think based on how we're playing the game. Ignore all the other distractions.
Osie brings up a really valid point, how do you have any idea scum have daychat?
Scum always have 24 hour chat where I play. In fact, it's been so long that I forgot I didn't have day chat in FF Mafia.
It's utterly irrelevant to the game, because this could be out of character deliberate derpclearing attempts from me. So you cannot clear me based on this supposed lack of knowledge and this is yet another reason why derpclearing people is a bad policy.
If you can't focus on the meat of the posts and derive alignment from that, then you're just trying to peek behind the curtain. Not you, players in general.
It's a really poor policy to think about derp clears in this manner and I don't think I'll ever fit in with this site's meta if this is what takes up space in posts instead of substantive discussion, tbqh.
You did see that Megs confirmed that there was no daychat right? We already knew that something like that must have been the case. I certainly didn't accuse you of cheating, or tried to go the derpclearing route.
@Shadow I don't know what you want me to explain from the start of today, my mindset was well this has all gone to ***** hasn't it.
My mind is on the GJ-Pizza scumteam as actually being the way to go Osie, and I do see GJ as being pizzas most likely partner is pizza is scum.
Like at some point a townie in this situation has to be going "shadow was town, you burned all town's lynches on him, only now declaring him townie, and now you're voting me? OMGUS vote pizza+GJ, I had a feeling and this confirms it".
Something along those lines. Especially given how quick you hammered it yesterday.
If I really wanted to play this hard, I'd have "unvote" in bold ready to fire the instant sloppy scum coordination happens.
Thing is, I still believe it's Osie and Anak and I frankly stopped caring if it's not.
But protip to future townies if there's no day chat, scum coordination would therefore obviously be a bit of a bee. Enterprising townies could take advantage, catch em in the act.
I left the legacy reads so someone could solve it between shadow-anak and osie-anak, since I wasn't sure. I'd want to make that final call on d3 if I lived, not let my legacy be abused if it was wrong.
In that order. Lynch of Osie Shadow not gg, then Anak+ one of Osie or Shadow. That's my legacy read.
The common denominator was Anak. I marked it as villagery so it wouldn't be obvious, but if you read the bottom sentence, I'm saying Anak is always scum if this lynch fails.
In games where cops leave fakepeeks, they often order their lists a certain way. So they don't have to hard claim their peeks.
If I die, and randwolf wanted to know who I'd be lynching today, he sees osie-shadow team is impossible and looks up one space.
He reads the sentence and concludes that Anak is the most likely scummo out of the remaining group, and he makes a 50/50 call between shadow and osie as the partner.
That list is ordered as such and combined with that sentence which makes it utterly unambiguous to randwolf what I was saying about my actual leans.
If I die, he's my strongest town lean and he's also feeling lazy. He might even sheep my reads.
If it was Shadow-anak, well, at least I found both of you scummy, and considered it strongly that you were together.
And I found townie rand, tom, and GJ townie. But format of the game making it really difficult to get there, and then osie would be town and I don't know how I can get there either.
Usually there's like, posts in between my posts, made by other people. The silence this game has often been deafening. Thank goodness the mods went easy on the spam rules. I'd have gone literally insane if I had to not post and had to just accumulate thoughts as they came and shat them out in one swoop.
It's gotta be the exact team, or else GJ can hammer it and win.
But you and Anak both seem to have made votes provoked by my posts, as opposed to a careful and strategic analysis, that would worry about something like that.
I don't know how many years it has been, since I lost as town in final 3.
I take great pride in my work. That much should show. And no one is a bigger critic of me than myself when I get it wrong.
You must know how hungry I am, how desperate I was all game to find the wolf team.
I considered this setup to be a personal challenge. And yes, that's a bit selfish. But if I can't find you, when I cannot be lynched as town, then I don't feel my town game is good enough.
No cops. No vigilantes. No mislynches. Just pure guesses and analysis and interrogative processes.
I've bled townieness into this game world. And now, at final 5, I think I finally have you.
My current thoughts: I don't think Anak is town, like at all. His opener against pizza today was super gross.
Quick aside: Someone (actually GJ I think?) told me LyLo is all about the why. If you're town, you ask yourself why you've been brought to LyLo; who you're meant to mislynch, and who has been brought forward to be mislynched.
I think there is a nonzero chance that pizza and I are in LyLo because we were supposed to mislynch each other. But I also think that it's still possible pizza is scum, though mechanically he would have to be scum with GJ, and I kinda find that difficult to believe. So let's say pizza is town, because I've got a soft town read on GJ, and a pretty solid scum read on Anak. That means the team is Osie/Anak, but I kinda still think Osie might be town, though the hard buddying is off putting. Osie, I don't remember you being this buddy buddy in Avalon, but as we were tunneling each other, was there someone that you were buddying up to?
So at this moment, from my perspective, it's either Anak/Osie, or Anak/GJ.
It could be Pizza/GJ I guess, I just have trouble with that team. But pizza voting and then pushing for the counter vote feels off. Pizza, let's say you are wrong on Osie, why push him to make an incorrect vote? Actually, I guess if you're wrong on Osie, then you've already setup for the game ending mislynch and it wouldn't matter. Hmm. I'm going to sleep now and will see if we've lost by morning.
I felt that anyone starting as late as GJ should, on average, have more content in their posts. I can do a PBPA once I get back on my computer. He's also scum by POE as Anak has better post quality in a similar number of posts, and you're town unless something dumb is going on.
Gentleman Johnny always looks townier than Anak for the way Anak hammered. He wasted all of yesterday. He was skating.
That doesn't mean GJ was clear, and I can't individually lock clear him based on his behavior like I could for Tom and like I could for randwolf.
There just isn't enough data to reasonably accomplish this.
What I can do, on the other hand, is weigh him against the other unclear slots.
You suddenly being lock clear makes things much easier, as I only have the three suspects. Osie, who I've already laid out why they're scummy this game, Anak, whose behavior I went into greater detail on.
Essentially, the reason why not Gentleman Johnny is the same reason today as it was yesterday.
Yesterday you were lock scum with osie, based on all the available data to me. Then, in a distant third was Anak, based on his slightly weak opening post and his deliberate skating. But his opening today also takes the cake because his previous posts predict that we'd still be deliberating this on day 3, when he was lynching people he suspected to be scum, or so he claimed.
That's problematic.
GJ doesn't have a chance to really behave like a scum this game. He can't get lock clear, but Osie's vote sure suggests you're not scum with him. Stuff like that I can read into easily. Then, cold reading his posts, it looks like solving to me.
Examine the difference between how GJ cleared me and how Anak did for me, and for you.
GJ made a solid read and stuck with it, because it's a real read. Anak cleared me and he town read you. Then he proceeded to vote for you, and set up several posts walking back his town read of me, while not explicitly pushing that idea.
That's not a townie process.
GJ's process looks townie. Yours did not. You get to be clear mechanically though, and thank balls for that.
While there was a nonzero chance I would have gotten there, it would have been a gutsy guess based on Anak's behavior and Osie's behavior and the fact that you and I are still alive. But Osie slipping with the tally makes it obvious.
Now I'm sitting in a very pretty spot. My slot can see easily that it's gotta be Osie and Anak based on their behavior, and that GJ is significantly townier than both of them.
This isn't even a difficult round for me. It's all obvious from my POV.
You and GJ have to get there on your own, but I'm ready to not suck for the first time. Although I must say, I might be the first townie in the game to legitimately scum read osie, whereas tom and yourself did not get that read right.
So, in general, town played bad and got there, and I don't have to feel completely ashamed of this game, I knew going in it would be mega hard for town to win.
But killing rand, and voting pizza-anak, makes the game super clear to me. Those were both horrendous mistakes by that wolf team.
So I don't even think town got a fair d1 this game due to the 2 inactive slots. And that's super neutering to any accurate analysis.
I was hoping I could cold read the active people and I didn't get there on osie until later and I was not getting there on you based on your posts.
They look bad, and I said why. You can tell easily that I believed those reasons. I believed them to the point of being overconfident, because both you and osie posted less on d2 and it looked like you were shook.
If you've ever been town in that situation you style all over your wolves there. Thats what I was doing, burying my scums so town wins.
Sadly, it's taking me 3 guesses to get there. But there was always a strong chance of that.
This endgame is actually great. You should not expect to have gotten such a partially solved endgame in a typical game of this setup.
We have so few pairs to actually examine. Those mislynches were not the worst ones we could have gotten because they preclude so many worlds.
And if I at least look townie as hell right now, that's also helping you and GJ get there.
So even if we took bruises, if this guess is right, town did a successful process. You guess and guess and solve. That's what I tried to do anyway.
I'd love to have gotten there on Osie d1 (I partially did) and Anak, but Anak wasn't there.
We were never getting there day 1.
Day 2 is where analysis is more relevant. Day 2 looks much clearer. You can see all of my intent, you can see osie's and anak's, and you can even judge GJ's performance.
Give me every slot being somewhat active and I can do this. Make it blind darts with an active scummy looking townie and I can't.
But I'd lean 90 percent GJ-Osie is not the team. I put so much effort into this and I always pull that trigger on Anak-Osie versus GJ-Osie. It's a truly significant difference.
If it's GJ-Osie then my reads are just ***** and they're not. It may not look like it right now, but my track record of finding townies and scums even in unfamiliar environments is good.
I am confident here on this read. I blame the inactivity and the fact that, well, your process doesn't look like other games. Not blaming you, just saying that's an easy false positive for me to get trapped in.
Heads up, as it is summer, and in Norway the sun is up at 11pm and up at 3am this time of year, my sleep cycle is all wacky right now. I've been sleeping mid-day. I will be here to talk to GJ and Shadow as much as you guys need, but the times I'm going to do it will be out of pattern.
Accusing me of cheating is not a good look. Won't be responding to these posts.
Scum always have 24 hour chat where I play. In fact, it's been so long that I forgot I didn't have day chat in FF Mafia.
It's utterly irrelevant to the game, because this could be out of character deliberate derpclearing attempts from me. So you cannot clear me based on this supposed lack of knowledge and this is yet another reason why derpclearing people is a bad policy.
If you can't focus on the meat of the posts and derive alignment from that, then you're just trying to peek behind the curtain. Not you, players in general.
It's a really poor policy to think about derp clears in this manner and I don't think I'll ever fit in with this site's meta if this is what takes up space in posts instead of substantive discussion, tbqh.
Ignore the yickiness of derp clears, and alignment read me by my posts's solving content only.
All of this horsing around with scum chats and accusations of cheating are super bad for a casual game anyway. If we're going to win or lose, let it be based off of something we really think based on how we're playing the game. Ignore all the other distractions.
At this point I've put in the effort and made my sincere calls, and I'm fine if they're wrong based on what I had to work with.
##Vote: Anaklusmos and Osieorb18
If this vote is wrong go ahead and hammer it, scummy scums. Once the fun starts to run, the game is done.
You did see that Megs confirmed that there was no daychat right? We already knew that something like that must have been the case. I certainly didn't accuse you of cheating, or tried to go the derpclearing route.
@Shadow I don't know what you want me to explain from the start of today, my mindset was well this has all gone to ***** hasn't it.
My mind is on the GJ-Pizza scumteam as actually being the way to go Osie, and I do see GJ as being pizzas most likely partner is pizza is scum.
I am willing to forgive but I'd rather just focus on the game itself, and have the showdown between town and mafia now.
Lynch to defeat townies as wolves, lynch to defeat wolves as mafia, none of this extracurricular nonsense.
I'm eager for postgame atp.
Blah, wolves as town. So much cross forum lingo. Anyway let's have it out.
Something along those lines. Especially given how quick you hammered it yesterday.
Thing is, I still believe it's Osie and Anak and I frankly stopped caring if it's not.
But protip to future townies if there's no day chat, scum coordination would therefore obviously be a bit of a bee. Enterprising townies could take advantage, catch em in the act.
250 posts, lock town.
Also you know I didn't actually hammer yesterday right? GJs vote was a miss, then I placed mine, and he revoted and hammered after me.
Yeah, so you could have kept on talking.
I was nice and didn't mention it. That was your chance to kill me and have it not be obvious.
The common denominator was Anak. I marked it as villagery so it wouldn't be obvious, but if you read the bottom sentence, I'm saying Anak is always scum if this lynch fails.
In games where cops leave fakepeeks, they often order their lists a certain way. So they don't have to hard claim their peeks.
If I die, and randwolf wanted to know who I'd be lynching today, he sees osie-shadow team is impossible and looks up one space.
He reads the sentence and concludes that Anak is the most likely scummo out of the remaining group, and he makes a 50/50 call between shadow and osie as the partner.
That list is ordered as such and combined with that sentence which makes it utterly unambiguous to randwolf what I was saying about my actual leans.
If I die, he's my strongest town lean and he's also feeling lazy. He might even sheep my reads.
@Shadow I know I sound like I only believe my reads can be right, but I've enough experience being a townie to have a plan B.
I have run into scummy looking townies before, but I still couldn't choose between you and osie. I had to see it wasn't the team.
Today it is much clearer.
And I found townie rand, tom, and GJ townie. But format of the game making it really difficult to get there, and then osie would be town and I don't know how I can get there either.
Usually there's like, posts in between my posts, made by other people. The silence this game has often been deafening. Thank goodness the mods went easy on the spam rules. I'd have gone literally insane if I had to not post and had to just accumulate thoughts as they came and shat them out in one swoop.
Vote: GJ + Pizza
Or, it would be, if that wasn't the generic state of affairs. Still, I like that GJ stuck around to talk to me in real time when he was here.
Assuming you are talking to me, I am on my phone on the way back from Independence day festivities. Whaddya want to talk about?
Will pizza's reads pay off? Or will it be laffy time at silly town?
Tune in right now to find out.
*munches so much popcorn*
Oh you know, this n that. Like how you have spewed GJ townie to Shadowlancer.
Was that a good thing?
But you and Anak both seem to have made votes provoked by my posts, as opposed to a careful and strategic analysis, that would worry about something like that.
Seems like flinching to me.
When? I have been somewhat unsure on GJ and Anak, and admitted that I felt that individually, GJ was probably scummier than Anak.
Why do you guys have to hide from me? Surely you don't think you can't beat me in a battle of wits, goblets of poison akimbo?
You can go against a sicilian when death is on the line. Didn't you hear what happened to the last guy who drank the wine?
I'm sorry. That was over the line. I thought it was normal to assume no daychat and the implication followed.
However this turns out, if it's you or if I'm wrong, I enjoyed playing with you.
Thank you sincerely, and likewise.
This is all in good fun, and whether you are playing the villain, or I am, at the end of it, we take off those roles and be friends, hopefully.
You seem like a decent fellow, and I hate to kill you [/image]
Can't be arsed to upload that image, so just know it's from the princess bride and it's famous.
Well.... this is something I can post.
It's thematic!
I take great pride in my work. That much should show. And no one is a bigger critic of me than myself when I get it wrong.
You must know how hungry I am, how desperate I was all game to find the wolf team.
I considered this setup to be a personal challenge. And yes, that's a bit selfish. But if I can't find you, when I cannot be lynched as town, then I don't feel my town game is good enough.
No cops. No vigilantes. No mislynches. Just pure guesses and analysis and interrogative processes.
I've bled townieness into this game world. And now, at final 5, I think I finally have you.
This is the only thing that can redeem this town.
And I want it.
I gotta see your cards so I can sleep again.
Ok Osie and Anak both kind of unable to stand toe to toe with me. Pizza too townie here.
That more than anything else redeems a bad pair of guesses from me.
Chess videos maybe so I can sleep for a few hours. I dunno. It's clear that the sword duel portion of final 5 is over.
glgl Shadow and GJ. Be back later.
Princess Bride is a good movie.
You didn't say much that warranted responding.
Your grandstanding also continues to look really scummy.
Been away from phone, holiday and stuff.
Quick aside: Someone (actually GJ I think?) told me LyLo is all about the why. If you're town, you ask yourself why you've been brought to LyLo; who you're meant to mislynch, and who has been brought forward to be mislynched.
I think there is a nonzero chance that pizza and I are in LyLo because we were supposed to mislynch each other. But I also think that it's still possible pizza is scum, though mechanically he would have to be scum with GJ, and I kinda find that difficult to believe. So let's say pizza is town, because I've got a soft town read on GJ, and a pretty solid scum read on Anak. That means the team is Osie/Anak, but I kinda still think Osie might be town, though the hard buddying is off putting. Osie, I don't remember you being this buddy buddy in Avalon, but as we were tunneling each other, was there someone that you were buddying up to?
It could be Pizza/GJ I guess, I just have trouble with that team. But pizza voting and then pushing for the counter vote feels off. Pizza, let's say you are wrong on Osie, why push him to make an incorrect vote? Actually, I guess if you're wrong on Osie, then you've already setup for the game ending mislynch and it wouldn't matter. Hmm. I'm going to sleep now and will see if we've lost by morning.
Happy 4th of July
The GJ way path to no lynching: