See that's the sort of thing that concerns me at this point. Tired brains are not good solving brains. Also, brains that just joined the game, maybe not the best either. New game tons of null/scummy feeling posts, it's a world of colorless cardboard. Even the obvious becomes unobvious. I think Anak gets there since he comes into the game sharply, but no idea how GJ is feeling and he's not super present or wimmy thusfar.
So, until the ref does stop the fight, I will use the empty space that I apparently own outright in this thread to continue tossing haymakers.
Or, better yet.
Brb getting my helicopter and rifle to hunt wolves, Sarah Palin style. That's how politicians hunt wolves, and I was told I was a politician this game.
I kinda want to actually try and lynch tom/pizza, because I'd pretty much hate myself forever of tom true-claimed on page one and we just rode with it.
seriously you people think shadow thinks its me/pizza right now?
if you think thats the team you dont love me for that post youre like "haha he's just trying to whatever" shadow is pushing a lynch because he'd hate himself if i won by true claiming
that is not real
it is fearmongering
it is opportunistic
shadow is scum
of course
the question is does he believe in it
hes not even saying "tom would totally trueclaim his partner"
which is true, but its not what hes saying
he said he doesnt want to lose to that.
think about that. hes decided thats a lynch that needs to happen. instead of evaluating either of us after. were 200 posts into a game where me and pizza are top-ish posters. but he wants to base 1/3 of our chances off my rvs. and he's moved nowhere?
nah bro. that aint town shadow. that dude has nimble reads.
The corpse of the once-handsome man with the questionably silky hair called out shadow for fearmongering.
Shadow doesn't play town based on fear. Near as I can tell he's a fearless townie in the games I've seen.
Click for context. The "fearmongering" in question was me saying this when I was at 3 votes: "Yet some folks seem okay with the round being over absent two people's discussion and before I've had a proper chance to identify any townies, leading to a day two where we are at lynch or lose -1 and absolutely no information has happened"
That's not fear, that's basic bleeping towning behavior. Hey, some people ain't had a chance to be villagery yet or form reads, maybe we should majority lynch on day one halfway through day one on Shadow's amazing case of "I think Tom totally claimed his real team, I can't lose to that, lynching pizza forever after this point!"
I mean, guys. You're the ones saying fearmongering is wolfy. And I agree.
I think I just threw up a little. You guys are reading this right? Pizza sounds like a politician mixed with Iso. If this is a town game of his...yeah, it's just not.
If plurality Lynches mean what I think they do, we really should have 6 people voting for 6 different teams (except Megs said don't do that, so I'd be content with 3 groups of 2 if we can't do 6).
Missing from shadow's posts up to this point, any actual reason why pizza was wolfy. He voted tom for tom's joke about being a wolf with me, he said I was "wolfy" sure. At least I actually said what I found wolfy about osie and shadow, no matter how thin it was. He never said why before this point in the game. I feel like that would have been a thing town-shadow would have said, since he usually gives reasons for his serious votes as soon as possible, whenever he has actual reasons.
That's a #realvillagingprocess
"He's like Iso!" That's good. I played with Iso. But I get the feeling that this was meant to persuade folks from this forum to view me negatively.
Seems kind of... fearmongering.
He's like this other person, therefore you shouldn't trust him.
#realvillagingthoughts
Notice that his pushback against me is purely emotional or feeling-based. Fear, distrust, nausea.
That's how shadow towns. He pretends to have all these emotions and gut feelings and uses that in lieu of cases.
This is the shadow you guys all know and love. I bet this is all very familiar to you, since that's his villager game to a T.
Fear, lack of reasoning, no case. Barely there, no townies found, no reasons given at least. Instead of finding villagers or exploring the rest of the game state, locks in in just me whenever he's in the thread.
Funny, I saw him acting really differently everywhere else I looked. But Osie totally thinks this is his villaging game, and can predict who he'd kill if he were a wolf this game.
That's some expert meta knowledge.
If I'm beating you on meta knowledge of shadow, you're a wolf.
I kinda want to actually try and lynch tom/pizza, because I'd pretty much hate myself forever of tom true-claimed on page one and we just rode with it.
seriously you people think shadow thinks its me/pizza right now?
if you think thats the team you dont love me for that post youre like "haha he's just trying to whatever" shadow is pushing a lynch because he'd hate himself if i won by true claiming
that is not real
it is fearmongering
it is opportunistic
shadow is scum
of course
the question is does he believe in it
hes not even saying "tom would totally trueclaim his partner"
which is true, but its not what hes saying
he said he doesnt want to lose to that.
think about that. hes decided thats a lynch that needs to happen. instead of evaluating either of us after. were 200 posts into a game where me and pizza are top-ish posters. but he wants to base 1/3 of our chances off my rvs. and he's moved nowhere?
nah bro. that aint town shadow. that dude has nimble reads.
The corpse of the once-handsome man with the questionably silky hair called out shadow for fearmongering.
Shadow doesn't play town based on fear. Near as I can tell he's a fearless townie in the games I've seen.
Click for context. The "fearmongering" in question was me saying this when I was at 3 votes: "Yet some folks seem okay with the round being over absent two people's discussion and before I've had a proper chance to identify any townies, leading to a day two where we are at lynch or lose -1 and absolutely no information has happened"
That's not fear, that's basic towning behavior. Hey, some people ain't had a chance to be villagery yet or form reads, maybe we should majority lynch on day one halfway through day one on Shadow's amazing case of "I think Tom totally claimed his real team, I can't lose to that, lynching pizza forever after this point".
I mean, guys. You're the ones saying fearmongering is wolfy. And I agree. So let's lynch the fearmongers.
I think I just threw up a little. You guys are reading this right? Pizza sounds like a politician mixed with Iso. If this is a town game of his...yeah, it's just not.
If plurality Lynches mean what I think they do, we really should have 6 people voting for 6 different teams (except Megs said don't do that, so I'd be content with 3 groups of 2 if we can't do 6).
Missing from shadow's posts up to this point, any actual reason why pizza was wolfy. He voted tom for tom's joke, he said I was wolfy. Never said why before this point.
I feel like that would have been a thing shadow-town would have said, since he usually gives reasons for his serious votes as soon as possible, whenever he has actual reasons. That's a #realvillagingprocess
Also shadow I see your point about pizza, I actually started with a scumlean when I was reading through the game but by the end I had flipped it. At some point I think pizza reached a critical mass where I don't believe he could continue to keep his tone and thought process as scum this long and consistent.
I am a bit worried about my pizza read, because it's sometimes easy to trust the person posting a ton, but I'm comfortable with pizza there
As comfortable as you were with Cantrip and I in Overwatch?
"I feel comfortable with pizza this game"
"Yeah, but you felt comfortable with these other people in this other game, doesn't that make you doubt yourself?"
(By the way, whatever happens and however you flip, I actually enjoy you as a player; you're just so wrong it's hilarious)
Appeal to doubting oneself.
Fear, doubt, undermining confidence. Abandoning his method of looking for townies that he uses in other games, with actual leans lists, townies with reasons, scum with reasons, a POE.
Doubt yourself, pizza.
Doubt yourself, Anaklusmos.
Don't listen to pizza, everyone. He's a politician. He's like Iso. Everyone stop listening to pizza, it's the only way town wins.
Haha, this wasn't the exact scum team, that makes me town.
You're fearmongering by pointing out facts, says wolfy shadow wolf while fearmongering and undermining confidence.
This is the behavior that I don't tolerate; vanity. You could be the best town player ever, but being so full of yourself regarding it is folly. I don't care if you're right 90% of the time with your reads, playing like you're always right is wrong.
More attempts to undermine based on character.
Shadow spent the game assassinating my character, while being unable to point out the scummy things I did. The things he pointed out, like noting it was about to majority lynch, is a total scumtell I am sure.
Meanwhile, I put my reasoning thinking brain to work, iso'ed him, pointed out his scummy behavior post by post, pointed out his meta is off, and pointed out his actual fear tactics and confidence disruption tactics and appeals to emotion.
I can appeal to emotion and undermine confidence too. That's why I'm hammering the ever living daylights out of these two wolves. As of right now, I'm just trying to break their wolfy spirits. This is called laying the smack down.
A little bit of that appeal to emotion from me, too. Plus the actual villaging work of pointing out their wildly wolfy game just in case it's not transparent to all. At least until the ref stops the fight.
Stop the fight, ref. Judges, call it. It's a double KO.
-If he's scum: we actually have slightly better odds because that means Osie and I have two other townies to help get to the right conclusion, but again, they'll have to not listen to pizza.
friggen software wouldn't let me post. Thought I lost the post altogether, good thing I had it partially copied to clipboard from all the various tabs I have open.
Well, the ending to that second post has more observations now. So read the latter half of that one too I guess.
They could point out any example in any recent game where they were town and decided suspicion based on the choice of nightkill.
I don't have enough games on site to share for this; the only ones I can share from are Avalon (No nightkills) and Revolution (I was the first nightkill).
You wanna explain why you're voting for Gentleman Johnny then, if this is your #realvillagingprocess
Because none of the other options are inherently as open to being on a team with you. And if that's wrong, I agree wholeheartedly with Shadow that You + Anak is the next best thing. Unless this grandstanding is normal for you. Can you show me a town game in which you grandstand this much?
That's not fear, that's basic bleeping towning behavior. Hey, some people ain't had a chance to be villagery yet or form reads, maybe we should majority lynch on day one halfway through day one on Shadow's amazing case of "I think Tom totally claimed his real team, I can't lose to that, lynching pizza forever after this point!"
Alright, I'm here and I will start from the beginning. From when I subbed out, I don't think Pizza is ever a wolf. Tone, wim, and the amount of work he is putting into the game, if he is a wolf, he could have just slanked himself to victory. I read a strong desire to solve, and Ill guess I am not the first person to notice this.
Also, if game is pure vanilla, and we don't know if there even 1 wolf in a wrong pairing, this game feels stupidly wolf sided.
Page 2, I don't like randwolfsubs response to osierb. It seems like he makes a vote, osierb calls him out and explains why he thinks tom is hunting, and than argues that he has been doing the same thing. Feels like he is bothered that he isn't getting town read which seems really weird this early into the game.
Lol tom calling powerwolf.
Page 3:
concinved Pizza, Osierb, Shadow, tom and rand are the only 5 people in the game. I know it's a 7 person mumbo, but this is basically mtgs's version of a turbo. Step it up.
Lol mtgs rules. Err Curse rules...
Spicy shadow wolf pairing. Tom and Pizza, but no consideration to my slot or the other guy I can't be bothered to remember right now.
25% complete, reads are from top down
Nipple
Pizza
Osierb
Shadow
Rand
Unknown name (champs rule)
Okay, let's say I'm horribly wrong and Pizza is town. I don't think I win if he's a wolf, he's just played it too strong to get taken down. So I'm going to just lock him as town and try and solve.
@Pizza: if you have a specific question that you'd like me to answer, post it by itself without being grandiose or burying it without 4 consecutive posts. I'll answer what I can, but if I don't respond to you, it's because I'm of the opinion that most of what I could even say to you at this point will have no effect on you.
I still don't think Osie is ever a wolf for his reaction to my end of day 1. I have no idea what his wolf game looks like, but faking a reaction like that is something not a lot of scum players could do. And even less likely in a first scum game. Unless...hmm, unless something that I'm just not going to consider at this point because reasons.
So 2 scum between RandWolf, GJ, and Anak.
RandWolf had a strong day one, but he's coasting, and that could just be real life, but it's troublesome.
@Randwolf: Do you think the game is solved, or are you just lacking time and energy to put more into the game? Also, while making a page one post about someone being lock town is obviously subject to change, what caused you to say that about me in the first place, and what made you change your mind?
Anak had a goodish entrance, but some of his phrasing, along with that Tom kill seem off.
@Anak: if you were scum last night and had full control over the NK, who do you kill and why?
Also, do you have any examples of town games where you used the phrase "@[playername] my friend" because it feels pockety and off.
GJ has nothing posted this game of note. I feel pretty confident that I could read him well if we had more time and he had started this game instead of replacing in, but I might still be able to get a feeling one way or another by the end of the game.Unvote, vote Anak and GJ
I am a bit leery at the idea that both scum lurked and replaced out, but this is my current best guess if pizza is town.
Pizza posting well. I have never seen him wolf so I don't know how true the statement is, but I never think he is a wolf here. Admittedly, I could be biased because I have read his recent real time posts.
Page 5
Just from brief memory, shadow seems slankier than in games I remember him in.
I am starting to get more vibes of rand being frustrated town. His series of posts seems incredibly hard to fake, and seems to be really frusterated with how the gamestate seems unfavorable to the town. Kind of the feeling I felt when meg explained the set-up to me. He is moving up on my list, but doesn't change read on pizza though.
Shadow lays some slank cover.
toms list is weird
ghosting
osi
pizza
rwso
togs
shadow
283 is either the best double down on a town player as wolf I have ever seen, or Pizza is townie.
Rands reaction to pizza is similar to my own so looks good.
Anak's entrance feels flimsy. Some of those questions look like busywork more than actual game solving.
Nipple
Pizza
Rand
Osierb
Shadow
Ghosting
Ima going to take a break, quote me if you need anything immediately. Btw, when does this day starT?
The closest resemblance to this game's behavior from me as scum might be endgame of futurama and endgame of final fantasy mafia on this site.
Futurama is linked above and FF mafia hosted by Seppel is 2015 and found easily in my history or by going to page 2 out in the forum probably.
Those selections at least demonstrate a large amount of wim, posts, and fake analysis, which shows you that I can do that, and that I'll give you the truth about my meta whether it's to my advantage or not.
Those selections are highlighted deliberately as examples that wouldn't be to my advantage here.
If I'm a wolf in endgame I usually bring the wim and look townie enough.
I typically wait until midgame to pull out such guns because if you fire them too early / look too townie, that's bad for your survival and you then can't explain why you weren't nightkilled. As villager I can't hold anything back on d1, because if I die I can't solve. If I die on d1 as scum while giving off little data, my team survives the game more often. That's why there's an early game difference between my alignments. There will continue to be until I get punished for it as a wolf.
If you're town, this will make it harder to read me, probably. If you're scum, I pointed you directly at the fuel you need.
Still, I went meta rummaging on you guys. Fair is fair.
Okay, let's say I'm horribly wrong and Pizza is town. I don't think I win if he's a wolf, he's just played it too strong to get taken down. So I'm going to just lock him as town and try and solve.
@Pizza: if you have a specific question that you'd like me to answer, post it by itself without being grandiose or burying it without 4 consecutive posts. I'll answer what I can, but if I don't respond to you, it's because I'm of the opinion that most of what I could even say to you at this point will have no effect on you.
That's fair. I am at the point where I have to see osie-shadow is not the team. I'm reading all your posts and everyone's regardless and I never stop re-assessing and I never don't reverse a read that I think should be reversed, despite strong language to the contrary for hyperbole's sake, but I don't know how you or osie get there from here, so I don't want to dangle something unrealistic in front of your face.
I've had townie games where I was super confident on some scummy townies and I had to keep playing for the win with egg on my face when it was wrong.
I keep chugging along like a roomba regardless. The floor's gotta be vacuumed no matter how many walls I bump into.
And if we lose then we lose. Is a guessing game on the internets between friends and soon to be friends. Even if I care, guessing wrong and losing is allowable play. Beratements do not come for being scummy townies or wrong guessing townies.
Something I tell all my wolf teams, is that it is town's game to win or lose, because they always have a forced checkmate while the game is in play, if it's a 2 faction game. Wolf's objective is to be a challenge and they win by default when town guesses wrong. If town guesses right, there's nothing you can do and it's no poor reflection on you. If you provided the challenge you did your jobs well and nothing more can be expected.
Likewise, if town tried to win, that's all we can expect.
Anyone who even has looked at the game of poker should know meta is garbage to push for.
Yeah, I'm about halfway on that. Meta poorly understood is garbage, and meta that is being played into is misleading. But, I've found that meta that is read properly, understood well, and not being played into properly is a good resource.
Meta is bull***** / I still use it.
If there's a chance it can be useful, I try for it. But if I'm not getting a super strong feeling from it, it's better to just focus on the game in progress and give my best guess, is how I approach it.
Shadow I'm pretty sure is town for meta reasons based on past games of his, scum Shadow is very engaged and forthcoming, where this shadow is the most asleep at the wheel I have ever seen.
TownShadow is often engaged, so I don't know where you are getting this?
speeding through to present: I am confirmed not wolf with shadow. Neato
That's really useful info to have, given your slot was MIA yesterday and Shadow's howling.
One of the main themes of my analysis of the game was during the final moments of d1 where shadow was, imo, panicking.
I pushed the (you)-Shadow lynch all the way to 4 because his self-vote looked a bit bluffy, and he looked a lot scummy.
But the alternative wagon being discussed by me (since I had/have rand as near-lock town) was a shadow-osie team, and I was pushing for 3 votes to occur.
I mentioned moving from (you)-Shadow to that wagon, and Shadow's move was to instantly self-vote (you)-Shadow.
I don't think a townie ever does that, and I think a scum does that to ensure it's not Osie-Shadow being lynched.
I mentioned this theory already but I wanted to highlight it again, because the timing is really suspect on that move, and it was getting close to end of round when the move was made.
My read on shadow was scummy before that, and I have scummy behavior from him after, so this is only like 5 percent of the case against shadow. But it does suggest a link of osie-shadow. There was real danger of that lynch happening since there was one vote on osie-shadow and anuk was following me and I declared my intent to move there.
It's a lot of really bad looks and coincidences from those two this game. Too many to be accidental.
That's really useful info to have, given your slot was MIA yesterday and Shadow's howling.
One of the main themes of my analysis of the game was during the final moments of d1 where shadow was, imo, panicking.
I pushed the (you)-Shadow lynch all the way to 4 because his self-vote looked a bit bluffy, and he looked a lot scummy.
But the alternative wagon being discussed by me (since I had/have rand as near-lock town) was a shadow-osie team, and I was pushing for 3 votes to occur.
I mentioned moving from (you)-Shadow to that wagon, and Shadow's move was to instantly self-vote (you)-Shadow.
I don't think a townie ever does that, and I think a scum does that to ensure it's not Osie-Shadow being lynched.
I mentioned this theory already but I wanted to highlight it again, because the timing is really suspect on that move, and it was getting close to end of round when the move was made.
My read on shadow was scummy before that, and I have scummy behavior from him after, so this is only like 5 percent of the case against shadow. But it does suggest a link of osie-shadow. There was real danger of that lynch happening since there was one vote on osie-shadow and anuk was following me and I declared my intent to move there.
It's a lot of really bad looks and coincidences from those two this game. Too many to be accidental.
It seems to be mostly bleh information though. The only information you know for certain is that me and shadow can't be w/w. We could still be w/v or v/v. Seems like a really *****ty place to be, especially because we cannot actually re-evaluate a mislynch to see if there was any one pushing this town train shadily. I was surprised when someone pointed out yesterday there were no information role or anything.
Going into today, I feel realy underwhelmed with rand again. I believe he was one of the tom wolf readers, and I feel like there wasn't a huge shift in mechanics from him today. Too many people are just reading weird to me.
I mentioned this theory already but I wanted to highlight it again, because the timing is really suspect on that move, and it was getting close to end of round when the move was made.
I didn't notice that. I wish mtgs had the countdown timers, and vote counts, would make the world much easier.
@Shadow I would have killed pizza in a vacuum as he is the one driving the game the most. If you mean with all the posted reads the same, probably rand as he is the least likely to be lynched.
I did the same to Osie, or maybe silver, at some point but I can't recall when. It's easy to forget there are people in this game and I don't want that to go by the wayside.
@GJ my questions were meant to be a bit flimsy, I was using them to flesh out reads. It's not like I was seriously asking Tom if he was scum, it was how he answered that question that I cared about.
Here's the thing, I don't like how random and pizza pushed each other, then cleared each other as town, and just moved on. But I might just be making this harder on myself than it is.
I'm still down with Osie as scum, haven't been moved from that, and checking him with Shadow is the most likely course of action today so I am okay with it. Feels like our only chance to win this is Day 3 anyway.
What's the vote count currently? Dont want to put to L-1 yet while GJ is catching up.
Here's the thing, I don't like how random and pizza pushed each other, then cleared each other as town, and just moved on. But I might just be making this harder on myself than it is.
That's a pretty conspicuous final 5 with the two top posters alive. Especially if we've lock cleared each other.
If it's shadow and not osie, it's shadow anaklusmos.
I have no evidence this is the team or that anak is even scum, though. All I have are osie and shadow's posts which look truly scummy, together and apart.
@Shadow I would have killed pizza in a vacuum as he is the one driving the game the most. If you mean with all the posted reads the same, probably rand as he is the least likely to be lynched.
I did the same to Osie, or maybe silver, at some point but I can't recall when. It's easy to forget there are people in this game and I don't want that to go by the wayside.
@GJ my questions were meant to be a bit flimsy, I was using them to flesh out reads. It's not like I was seriously asking Tom if he was scum, it was how he answered that question that I cared about.
Here's the thing, I don't like how random and pizza pushed each other, then cleared each other as town, and just moved on. But I might just be making this harder on myself than it is.
I'm still down with Osie as scum, haven't been moved from that, and checking him with Shadow is the most likely course of action today so I am okay with it. Feels like our only chance to win this is Day 3 anyway.
What's the vote count currently? Dont want to put to L-1 yet while GJ is catching up.
If this game were run again I feel like either night one or night too we should be able to see if there is one will 40 wolfs in the Lynch for that day. It seems ridiculous that we can't get any read on me or Shadow for sure.
@GJ, the host is a stickler for proper voting format.
You must ##Vote: Name, Name
in bold.
My votes didn't count earlier because of this format problem.
@Anaklusmos, as much as I want you to hammer the round, let the hours tick down.
I don't want you to tinfoil away from osie-shadow, but I would like everyone who cares to give "if it's not them" reads to do so.
Also, in case I don't see you again this game, thank you very much for subbing in halfway into a very short game with a lot of posts. Game is busted without you and we put a lot of work into it, those of us that were present at all.
@GJ, the host is a stickler for proper voting format.
You must ##Vote: Name, Name
in bold.
My votes didn't count earlier because of this format problem.
@Anaklusmos, as much as I want you to hammer the round, let the hours tick down.
I don't want you to tinfoil away from osie-shadow, but I would like everyone who cares to give "if it's not them" reads to do so.
Also, in case I don't see you again this game, thank you very much for subbing in halfway into a very short game with a lot of posts. Game is busted without you and we put a lot of work into it, those of us that were present at all.
Hashtag so much blood.
jurying + sickness is not a good combo.
Still happy to call atpg villa for now, happy to lose to someone who tries
no read on anak and GJ and not sure how im supposed to get one
cross my fingers and pray time
So, until the ref does stop the fight, I will use the empty space that I apparently own outright in this thread to continue tossing haymakers.
Or, better yet.
Brb getting my helicopter and rifle to hunt wolves, Sarah Palin style. That's how politicians hunt wolves, and I was told I was a politician this game.
I guess I'd better self-fulfill that prophecy.
The corpse of the once-handsome man with the questionably silky hair called out shadow for fearmongering.
Shadow doesn't play town based on fear. Near as I can tell he's a fearless townie in the games I've seen.
Tom backs up that meta 100 percent.
Click for context. The "fearmongering" in question was me saying this when I was at 3 votes: "Yet some folks seem okay with the round being over absent two people's discussion and before I've had a proper chance to identify any townies, leading to a day two where we are at lynch or lose -1 and absolutely no information has happened"
That's not fear, that's basic bleeping towning behavior. Hey, some people ain't had a chance to be villagery yet or form reads, maybe we should majority lynch on day one halfway through day one on Shadow's amazing case of "I think Tom totally claimed his real team, I can't lose to that, lynching pizza forever after this point!"
I mean, guys. You're the ones saying fearmongering is wolfy. And I agree.
So let's lynch the fearmongers.
Missing from shadow's posts up to this point, any actual reason why pizza was wolfy. He voted tom for tom's joke about being a wolf with me, he said I was "wolfy" sure. At least I actually said what I found wolfy about osie and shadow, no matter how thin it was. He never said why before this point in the game. I feel like that would have been a thing town-shadow would have said, since he usually gives reasons for his serious votes as soon as possible, whenever he has actual reasons.
That's a #realvillagingprocess
"He's like Iso!" That's good. I played with Iso. But I get the feeling that this was meant to persuade folks from this forum to view me negatively.
Seems kind of... fearmongering.
He's like this other person, therefore you shouldn't trust him.
#realvillagingthoughts
Notice that his pushback against me is purely emotional or feeling-based. Fear, distrust, nausea.
That's how shadow towns. He pretends to have all these emotions and gut feelings and uses that in lieu of cases.
This is the shadow you guys all know and love. I bet this is all very familiar to you, since that's his villager game to a T.
Fear, lack of reasoning, no case. Barely there, no townies found, no reasons given at least. Instead of finding villagers or exploring the rest of the game state, locks in in just me whenever he's in the thread.
Funny, I saw him acting really differently everywhere else I looked. But Osie totally thinks this is his villaging game, and can predict who he'd kill if he were a wolf this game.
That's some expert meta knowledge.
If I'm beating you on meta knowledge of shadow, you're a wolf.
The corpse of the once-handsome man with the questionably silky hair called out shadow for fearmongering.
Shadow doesn't play town based on fear. Near as I can tell he's a fearless townie in the games I've seen.
Tom backs up that meta 100 percent.
Click for context. The "fearmongering" in question was me saying this when I was at 3 votes: "Yet some folks seem okay with the round being over absent two people's discussion and before I've had a proper chance to identify any townies, leading to a day two where we are at lynch or lose -1 and absolutely no information has happened"
That's not fear, that's basic towning behavior. Hey, some people ain't had a chance to be villagery yet or form reads, maybe we should majority lynch on day one halfway through day one on Shadow's amazing case of "I think Tom totally claimed his real team, I can't lose to that, lynching pizza forever after this point".
I mean, guys. You're the ones saying fearmongering is wolfy. And I agree. So let's lynch the fearmongers.
Missing from shadow's posts up to this point, any actual reason why pizza was wolfy. He voted tom for tom's joke, he said I was wolfy. Never said why before this point.
I feel like that would have been a thing shadow-town would have said, since he usually gives reasons for his serious votes as soon as possible, whenever he has actual reasons. That's a #realvillagingprocess
"I feel comfortable with pizza this game"
"Yeah, but you felt comfortable with these other people in this other game, doesn't that make you doubt yourself?"
Appeal to doubting oneself.
Fear, doubt, undermining confidence. Abandoning his method of looking for townies that he uses in other games, with actual leans lists, townies with reasons, scum with reasons, a POE.
Doubt yourself, pizza.
Doubt yourself, Anaklusmos.
Don't listen to pizza, everyone. He's a politician. He's like Iso. Everyone stop listening to pizza, it's the only way town wins.
Haha, this wasn't the exact scum team, that makes me town.
You're fearmongering by pointing out facts, says wolfy shadow wolf while fearmongering and undermining confidence.
More attempts to undermine based on character.
Shadow spent the game assassinating my character, while being unable to point out the scummy things I did. The things he pointed out, like noting it was about to majority lynch, is a total scumtell I am sure.
Meanwhile, I put my reasoning thinking brain to work, iso'ed him, pointed out his scummy behavior post by post, pointed out his meta is off, and pointed out his actual fear tactics and confidence disruption tactics and appeals to emotion.
I can appeal to emotion and undermine confidence too. That's why I'm hammering the ever living daylights out of these two wolves. As of right now, I'm just trying to break their wolfy spirits. This is called laying the smack down.
A little bit of that appeal to emotion from me, too. Plus the actual villaging work of pointing out their wildly wolfy game just in case it's not transparent to all. At least until the ref stops the fight.
Stop the fight, ref. Judges, call it. It's a double KO.
Shadow: "Everyone, don't read pizza's posts"
Pizza: "Everyone, read shadow's posts."
The difference between a wolf and a villager.
Well, the ending to that second post has more observations now. So read the latter half of that one too I guess.
I don't have enough games on site to share for this; the only ones I can share from are Avalon (No nightkills) and Revolution (I was the first nightkill).
Nah, my read is a tone read, as I definitely mentioned or at least implied.
Because none of the other options are inherently as open to being on a team with you. And if that's wrong, I agree wholeheartedly with Shadow that You + Anak is the next best thing. Unless this grandstanding is normal for you. Can you show me a town game in which you grandstand this much?
Why so defensive?
Ehh, I've only played two and a half games with him before this one, but I'm just seeing posts that don't seem to come from scum!Shadow.
"Fearmongering" is being thrown around too much, though, I'll agree with that.
Also, I'm actually just reading Shadow's posts without preconceptions rather than metagaming...
Also, if game is pure vanilla, and we don't know if there even 1 wolf in a wrong pairing, this game feels stupidly wolf sided.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Lol tom calling powerwolf.
Page 3:
concinved Pizza, Osierb, Shadow, tom and rand are the only 5 people in the game. I know it's a 7 person mumbo, but this is basically mtgs's version of a turbo. Step it up.
Lol mtgs rules. Err Curse rules...
Spicy shadow wolf pairing. Tom and Pizza, but no consideration to my slot or the other guy I can't be bothered to remember right now.
25% complete, reads are from top down
Nipple
Pizza
Osierb
Shadow
Rand
Unknown name (champs rule)
The GJ way path to no lynching:
@Pizza: if you have a specific question that you'd like me to answer, post it by itself without being grandiose or burying it without 4 consecutive posts. I'll answer what I can, but if I don't respond to you, it's because I'm of the opinion that most of what I could even say to you at this point will have no effect on you.
I still don't think Osie is ever a wolf for his reaction to my end of day 1. I have no idea what his wolf game looks like, but faking a reaction like that is something not a lot of scum players could do. And even less likely in a first scum game. Unless...hmm, unless something that I'm just not going to consider at this point because reasons.
So 2 scum between RandWolf, GJ, and Anak.
RandWolf had a strong day one, but he's coasting, and that could just be real life, but it's troublesome.
@Randwolf: Do you think the game is solved, or are you just lacking time and energy to put more into the game? Also, while making a page one post about someone being lock town is obviously subject to change, what caused you to say that about me in the first place, and what made you change your mind?
Anak had a goodish entrance, but some of his phrasing, along with that Tom kill seem off.
@Anak: if you were scum last night and had full control over the NK, who do you kill and why?
Also, do you have any examples of town games where you used the phrase "@[playername] my friend" because it feels pockety and off.
GJ has nothing posted this game of note. I feel pretty confident that I could read him well if we had more time and he had started this game instead of replacing in, but I might still be able to get a feeling one way or another by the end of the game.
Unvote, vote Anak and GJ
I am a bit leery at the idea that both scum lurked and replaced out, but this is my current best guess if pizza is town.
So many ******* gifs, my word.
Osierb voting the spicy combo.
Ah, mystery man is Ghosting. Fair enough
Pizza posting well. I have never seen him wolf so I don't know how true the statement is, but I never think he is a wolf here. Admittedly, I could be biased because I have read his recent real time posts.
Page 5
Just from brief memory, shadow seems slankier than in games I remember him in.
@Randwolf: Are you on MU?
Would like to hear why my slot with 2-3 posts at this stage is lock town, even if you are right that pizza is a wolf...
Nipple
Pizza
Osierb
Shadow
Rand
Unknown name (champs rule)
Not budging on this so far.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I am starting to get more vibes of rand being frustrated town. His series of posts seems incredibly hard to fake, and seems to be really frusterated with how the gamestate seems unfavorable to the town. Kind of the feeling I felt when meg explained the set-up to me. He is moving up on my list, but doesn't change read on pizza though.
Shadow lays some slank cover.
toms list is weird
283 is either the best double down on a town player as wolf I have ever seen, or Pizza is townie.
Rands reaction to pizza is similar to my own so looks good.
Anak's entrance feels flimsy. Some of those questions look like busywork more than actual game solving.
Nipple
Pizza
Rand
Osierb
Shadow
Ghosting
Ima going to take a break, quote me if you need anything immediately. Btw, when does this day starT?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
48 hours ago.
It may be 24 hours left, but the host mentioned a deadline extension. Thing is, I don't know what that means and they've not updated when round ends.
So, to be on the safe side, you've got about 24 hours unless the mod posts again, if the host means 72 hours from this post.
Yeah. I asked for meta stuff, it's okay to ask me for mine, regardless of your alignment.
I'm dead and flipped town in this game, so it's okay to look at. Town game before that had private communication so it's a poor sample.
http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152111-Futuramafia-Concluded
http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152222-Tokens-of-My-Confection-Concluded
http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?152287-Visor-s-Small-Mafia-Game-Concluded
Here's my 3 most recent scum games as well.
The closest resemblance to this game's behavior from me as scum might be endgame of futurama and endgame of final fantasy mafia on this site.
Futurama is linked above and FF mafia hosted by Seppel is 2015 and found easily in my history or by going to page 2 out in the forum probably.
Those selections at least demonstrate a large amount of wim, posts, and fake analysis, which shows you that I can do that, and that I'll give you the truth about my meta whether it's to my advantage or not.
Those selections are highlighted deliberately as examples that wouldn't be to my advantage here.
If I'm a wolf in endgame I usually bring the wim and look townie enough.
I typically wait until midgame to pull out such guns because if you fire them too early / look too townie, that's bad for your survival and you then can't explain why you weren't nightkilled. As villager I can't hold anything back on d1, because if I die I can't solve. If I die on d1 as scum while giving off little data, my team survives the game more often. That's why there's an early game difference between my alignments. There will continue to be until I get punished for it as a wolf.
Still, I went meta rummaging on you guys. Fair is fair.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
That's fair. I am at the point where I have to see osie-shadow is not the team. I'm reading all your posts and everyone's regardless and I never stop re-assessing and I never don't reverse a read that I think should be reversed, despite strong language to the contrary for hyperbole's sake, but I don't know how you or osie get there from here, so I don't want to dangle something unrealistic in front of your face.
I've had townie games where I was super confident on some scummy townies and I had to keep playing for the win with egg on my face when it was wrong.
I keep chugging along like a roomba regardless. The floor's gotta be vacuumed no matter how many walls I bump into.
And if we lose then we lose. Is a guessing game on the internets between friends and soon to be friends. Even if I care, guessing wrong and losing is allowable play. Beratements do not come for being scummy townies or wrong guessing townies.
Something I tell all my wolf teams, is that it is town's game to win or lose, because they always have a forced checkmate while the game is in play, if it's a 2 faction game. Wolf's objective is to be a challenge and they win by default when town guesses wrong. If town guesses right, there's nothing you can do and it's no poor reflection on you. If you provided the challenge you did your jobs well and nothing more can be expected.
Likewise, if town tried to win, that's all we can expect.
Yeah, I'm about halfway on that. Meta poorly understood is garbage, and meta that is being played into is misleading. But, I've found that meta that is read properly, understood well, and not being played into properly is a good resource.
Meta is bull***** / I still use it.
If there's a chance it can be useful, I try for it. But if I'm not getting a super strong feeling from it, it's better to just focus on the game in progress and give my best guess, is how I approach it.
TownShadow is often engaged, so I don't know where you are getting this?
speeding through to present: I am confirmed not wolf with shadow. Neato
The GJ way path to no lynching:
One of the main themes of my analysis of the game was during the final moments of d1 where shadow was, imo, panicking.
I pushed the (you)-Shadow lynch all the way to 4 because his self-vote looked a bit bluffy, and he looked a lot scummy.
But the alternative wagon being discussed by me (since I had/have rand as near-lock town) was a shadow-osie team, and I was pushing for 3 votes to occur.
I mentioned moving from (you)-Shadow to that wagon, and Shadow's move was to instantly self-vote (you)-Shadow.
I don't think a townie ever does that, and I think a scum does that to ensure it's not Osie-Shadow being lynched.
I mentioned this theory already but I wanted to highlight it again, because the timing is really suspect on that move, and it was getting close to end of round when the move was made.
My read on shadow was scummy before that, and I have scummy behavior from him after, so this is only like 5 percent of the case against shadow. But it does suggest a link of osie-shadow. There was real danger of that lynch happening since there was one vote on osie-shadow and anuk was following me and I declared my intent to move there.
It's a lot of really bad looks and coincidences from those two this game. Too many to be accidental.
It seems to be mostly bleh information though. The only information you know for certain is that me and shadow can't be w/w. We could still be w/v or v/v. Seems like a really *****ty place to be, especially because we cannot actually re-evaluate a mislynch to see if there was any one pushing this town train shadily. I was surprised when someone pointed out yesterday there were no information role or anything.
Going into today, I feel realy underwhelmed with rand again. I believe he was one of the tom wolf readers, and I feel like there wasn't a huge shift in mechanics from him today. Too many people are just reading weird to me.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I didn't notice that. I wish mtgs had the countdown timers, and vote counts, would make the world much easier.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
6 possible people to chose from.
I don't see many worlds where pizza doesn't die tonight. I was actually surprised tom died yesterday tbh.
Is there anyone apart from myself shadow is unlikely to ever be wolf with?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I did the same to Osie, or maybe silver, at some point but I can't recall when. It's easy to forget there are people in this game and I don't want that to go by the wayside.
@GJ my questions were meant to be a bit flimsy, I was using them to flesh out reads. It's not like I was seriously asking Tom if he was scum, it was how he answered that question that I cared about.
Here's the thing, I don't like how random and pizza pushed each other, then cleared each other as town, and just moved on. But I might just be making this harder on myself than it is.
I'm still down with Osie as scum, haven't been moved from that, and checking him with Shadow is the most likely course of action today so I am okay with it. Feels like our only chance to win this is Day 3 anyway.
What's the vote count currently? Dont want to put to L-1 yet while GJ is catching up.
Osie and Shadow have their votes split on you/GJ and GJ/me, not in that order.
That's a pretty conspicuous final 5 with the two top posters alive. Especially if we've lock cleared each other.
Shadow-rand highly not probable, if I die that's the read I want you to take to heart the most.
I have no evidence this is the team or that anak is even scum, though. All I have are osie and shadow's posts which look truly scummy, together and apart.
I just don't know how you get to shadow-town based on this game or any recent meta.
These are the scenarios I consider unlikely but *shrug* a weak legacy is better than no legacy.
I think game ends town victory osie-shadow.
They're too scummy, toss those scenarios, imo.
Agreed.only team that even street of works would be rand/anak.
shadow and osie
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Pretty much caught up, mate.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Vote Shadow Osie
Vote Shadow Osie
The GJ way path to no lynching:
You must ##Vote: Name, Name
in bold.
My votes didn't count earlier because of this format problem.
@Anaklusmos, as much as I want you to hammer the round, let the hours tick down.
I don't want you to tinfoil away from osie-shadow, but I would like everyone who cares to give "if it's not them" reads to do so.
Also, in case I don't see you again this game, thank you very much for subbing in halfway into a very short game with a lot of posts. Game is busted without you and we put a lot of work into it, those of us that were present at all.
Me, town
randwolf, basically lock
GJ, villagery
Anak, villagery
Osie wolfy
Shadow wolfy
In that order. Lynch of Osie Shadow not gg, then Anak+ one of Osie or Shadow. That's my legacy read.
Vote shadow, osie
Pizza we could use a hero for a turbo on mu
The GJ way path to no lynching:
GlGl in case this isn't the solve. Bring it home in final 5 if so.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching: