You've posted fewer posts by virtue of subbing into the game?
I had before this post, exactly 1 less post than anak did. How can you get a read on him, but not have "much to go on" for me?
I was able to read more from his posts. No biggie.
So what, are you flipping a coin then, you can't get a read on me or are unwilling?
This is lynch or lose. If you are town and I am a mystery to you, why aren't you trying harder to figure out my alignment?
Just hadn't happened yet. And you're not that much of a mystery; by POE, you're one of three people who are likely to be scum, and the question is which team is the most likely. Speaking of "hadn't happened yet," now it has...
Okay so I have
* GJ - High ratio of low-information posts to high-information posts, light analysis, follows Pizza.
* Anak - Decent but wrong posts, decent analysis, follows Pizza.
* Pizza - Lots of mediocre to scummy posts, some seemingly town posts, too many really bad posts. Seemingly hard-worked analysis, but not outside the realm of fakeable.
* Shadow - Some posts that are questionable, but can mostly be accounted for with being tired. A town tone and a very reasonable number of pretty good posts, including some posts that aren't likely to come from scum.
I'm might be getting WIFOM'ed really hard here, but I think there's no way that the two people with the *****tiest posts are actually scum, and that at least one of the scum team is more middle of the road. So if this was a standard game, I'd be more inclined to suspect both Pizza and GJ. But I think Anak + Pizza is the most likely team.
Osie, you realize it's LyLo and if your team is incorrect we just lose right? We have time, I strongly encourage you to Unvote.
Yeah, okay. I got over-excited.
Unvote
@Shadow: Who do you think is the most likely scum team? I'm still leaning Anak + Pizza, but I've been jumping on the other possibilities here and there over the course of the past couple of hours.
Shadow, on the other hand, if he was a wolf, probably knows I lynch him and Anaklusmos today, and I also get that lynch because I get everything I want this game because I'm the lickitiest of lock townies and I have more heart than the entire rest of the town combined.
Shadow doing that play is performance artistry ballsy as scum, so now he's lock town.
Discuss how we're lynching only Osie and Only Anaklusmos only together today only.
So read through and caught up, though haven't really compiled things yet.
Some questions for people after reading.
@Tom Are you scum?
@pizza that's a lot of words to articulate your thoughts, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
@shadow Are you awake?
@osie who if you had to lock in as town would you choose?
@rwso You were talked off your read of pizza through sheer number of posts, did you actually reevaluate your read because of that or was it a temporary reprieve to have a break from the back and forth?
Comes into the thread strong, with some questions that people kinda wondered what they were doing to solve. Asking tom if he's scum is... a joke, really, not a serious solve. Asking Shadow if he's awake, without a follow up, is not seriously solving.
But, I felt like his posts about Osie made him a contender for townieness.
Pizza did you say you would give me a tldr then respond with four posts describing your mindset?
My evaluation if the game is this, Osie and Tom are the scum, with what I will call the Atog clause where he could replace either of the two. But he is third to the both of them.
Osie felt odd to me, like he was trying to appease everyone. My question was to force him into a specific answer, one lock town, and even then he couldn't help listing three people to try and make sure he gave me an answer he thought I wanted.
Tom is more of a feel after playing often together, it's not really meta as I don't have immediate examples to cite. With as active as Pizza is, Tom has been content to sit back more instead of being the Tom I expect, saying what he wants when he wants. My question was to try and poke him into being the Tom I know, and he gave a one word answer, it's not the answer but how he did it. Just quick response, and move on. That's super bizarre to me, and is something I think is more likely to come from scum him than town him in a setup that appears to favor scum. Less rocking the boat and let someone else do it.
Shadow I'm pretty sure is town for meta reasons based on past games of his, scum Shadow is very engaged and forthcoming, where this shadow is the most asleep at the wheel I have ever seen.
Pizza is town because good luck faking that tone.
Rwso is in the middle of my list, I didn't like the beginning of his game but he seems to have straightened out.
Problems that are easier to see in retrospect, and with Shadow not on any possible team except with Anaklusmos.
Immediately locks onto Osie, in this evaluation, to distance himself from Osie-slot.
Evaluation of Shadow as town, where the meta should actually show Shadow as being a wolf. Especially in the analysis I gave. This is a strategic pocketing of Shadow.
Deals with the overwhelmingly townie townie Pizza-slot by simply marking it town. But, endgame is a thing, so later he starts to put little trail of breadcrumbs which reverses the read.
I don't disagree on shadow being different this game, but to me it feels more likely that it comes when he is town rather than scum.
It's something I could be persuaded though. The issue with our compromises here is it hinges rather heavily on Atog being scum, which is that something you are willing to bet the farm on? Otherwise more discussion is needed still
Instead of protecting his town read, as soon as he sees me pushing for that lynch desperately, he's willing to give me what I want.
How'd I do in protecting my town reads this game? None of them got lynched.
If we are close to deadline then I will vote with you to ensure it happens, otherwise I would love some time to discuss.
Here is my biggest gripe with that team, doesn't it feel too easy? Like the scumteam is the near constant lurker and the one player who is acting the most checked out I have ever seen him?
I get the need to check that, as why above I mention I will join you if needed at this point, but doesn't that really feel like a game being on easy mode?
Basically asking me to give him permission to crush his own townie read, so he can be like "I had reservations" later.
Yeah with that little time we aren't getting a better option, your caring is certainly noted and resonates. Will do my best to continue to push it along if all goes south
On mobile so it's not something I will really be able to do quickly, but will do my best.
I don't have a great recollection of Osie from other games specifically, at least ones that I can use as evidence here.
It's really central to the fact that it felt like he was trying to say what he thought we wanted to hear, hence my question to try and get him on a single hard read. His answer was to give three options for his one lock town, which fit right into the scum MO I had for him this game if trying to just appease me instead of genuinely answering. Let me go quote a couple things
Ok, here's where I screwed up the Anaklusmos read, making him a townie. This is what he quoted:
"It started here, I noticed he answered rwsos question and gave lots of details on how it was just random, and realized that he had already answered that exact rwso three posts above! Like it's fine to answer the first time like he did, but then to answer it a second time, and throw out other reads at a point where it's basically RVS told me that he was trying to appease others rather than genuinely be town.
(next post)
This post has it a lot too, responding to things that just don't really make sense to. The timezones thing, the being across the pond, the site errors a ton of this post is just polite comments. But they really come across to me as someone trying to gain some easy towncred by helping out everyone with random little things, continuing the theme of appeasing people when he can"
So this all looks like actual town analysis of Osie. Especially what he's picking at, the part where Osie posted the same thing twice.
But remember, all Anak-wolf has to do this game is not make it obvious he's wolfing with Osie.
Which, if I believe he's a possible wolf with Shadow, and he distanced himself from Osie, is quite believable that he's believe that I'd believe that.
He's gotta break up the rand-pizza-tom block, so that explains those two deaths. I've invested the most out of anyone in the read of Shadow-wolf.
I still can't believe it's not butter, by the way. But he's going to get the so wolfy he's town read that rand got, because it's so ridiculously silly how Osie and anak town-read his slot. But not without getting a couple of lynches off of him, Osie's vote on d1, Anak's vote on d2, for example.
Now I'm sure they want all the credit in the world for town reading him.
No, you don't get jack for credit because those town reads were wrong. Even if he's town, the correct read on his slot based on what I showed you was that he was a wolf. How you got to him being town is because you happened to know he's town despite looking like the wolfiest version of himself that ever wolfed.
I'm at it's Anaklusmos and Shadow, or Anaklusmos and Osie. I've had a death tunnel on Shadow all game, and I can use rand and tom's reads on shadow being wolf and I can also use my own big fat case against him all as evidence that the third lynch of the game needs to be Anak and Shadow.
I'm getting that lynch today if I wanted it. Especially with GJ marking me as town. But I digress.
After Anak's initial flurry, his WIM and analysis and contribution to the game all drops off the planet.
Also shadow I see your point about pizza, I actually started with a scumlean when I was reading through the game but by the end I had flipped it. At some point I think pizza reached a critical mass where I don't believe he could continue to keep his tone and thought process as scum this long and consistent.
I am a bit worried about my pizza read, because it's sometimes easy to trust the person posting a ton, but I'm comfortable with pizza there
And he's gotta make his reversing on pizza believable, so now "good luck faking that tone" becomes "I don't believe he can.... as scum", with "I'm worried about the read".
Those are odd thoughts to have simultaneously. Oh, randwolf is definitely town, no question. I'm worried about the read, though.
Still, everything's fine until day 2.
Here, Anak is safe as hell and has all day to do anything. This is what he does all day:
I need to do more reading and thinking, though it's the fourth so up at my cabin so won't have anything posted for a bit.
The issue is what my gut says and what the game state looks like don't jive, and my head is trying to rationalize which one is right
Third stalling post and more trail of breadcrumbs so he can reverse all his reads on day 3.
@Shadow I would have killed pizza in a vacuum as he is the one driving the game the most. If you mean with all the posted reads the same, probably rand as he is the least likely to be lynched.
I did the same to Osie, or maybe silver, at some point but I can't recall when. It's easy to forget there are people in this game and I don't want that to go by the wayside.
@GJ my questions were meant to be a bit flimsy, I was using them to flesh out reads. It's not like I was seriously asking Tom if he was scum, it was how he answered that question that I cared about.
Here's the thing, I don't like how random and pizza pushed each other, then cleared each other as town, and just moved on. But I might just be making this harder on myself than it is.
I'm still down with Osie as scum, haven't been moved from that, and checking him with Shadow is the most likely course of action today so I am okay with it. Feels like our only chance to win this is Day 3 anyway.
What's the vote count currently? Dont want to put to L-1 yet while GJ is catching up.
No GJ-Anak team.
Just waiting for GJ to hammer so the scum team can win in final 5.
Underlined, he's prepping to reverse his pizza town read.
"Feels like the only chance to win this is Day 3 anyway"
Meanwhile "checking Osie as scum with Shadow is the most likely course of action" and you're okay with it.
So Pizza, why are you alive? Most of this game considers you lock town, outside of shadow I think, so what is the reason you would guess?
Rand was the most thought of town outside of pizza so that makes sense in that regard.
Trail of breadcrumbs ends.
Outside of Shadow and Osie, you'd think. And yourself, since you've been hinting at your town read of pizza dropping until today.
So that's three votes.
Osie with no tally discipline and not a care in the world, pocketing scum-read shadow all game. Anak with no voicing of his "suspicions" on me and his unease with me until start of day 3 when he's the guy who had the hammer and could have voiced it at any time.
Anak voting for his town read, not defending his town read. Osie conveniently locking Shadow town once a lynch has already gone off on him and another one is in progress. Based on a process too convoluted to make any kind of sense, no reaction or response or actual debate to be had with the case I made against Shadow, which was brutal, which was based on hours of digging through Shadow's isos in several games, scum and town alike, which prove to anyone with no perfect information that he's scum as hell.
Which tom believed, which rand believed, which I believed, which GJ believed. That's 4 people who found Shadow to be wolfy based on him being frigging wolfy as all hell.
How do you arrive at that town read of Shadow?
By knowing he's not scum. It's the only way, since my meta argument blew away yours by leaps and bounds and miles and miles.
And how well did you defend your town read, guys?
He was lynched twice, at your hands, no less.
At least I actually thought the dude was howling scum. You can read it in all my danged posts.
And I still think Anak-Shadow is highly likely. His posts are that goddamned scummy.
But I don't buy Osie's town read of him, Osie's process in general, and Anak's process on him.
I'm a process guy. Even when I'm wrong, you can connect the dots easily from a to b to c to d on how I arrived at a wrong answer.
How you guys arrive at what may be the right answer, and still lynch your townie, is because it's good to have shadow being wolfy and pizza identifying his slot as wolfy, and letting those lynches happen.
GJ as scum: No real possibility for me to have arrived at a scum lean on him, since he was not here d1 and was absent most of d2.
Low information slot that looked at least a little townie when he did post = that's as good as I'm gonna get.
GJ town. I was only ever lynching inside Osie-Anak or Shadow-Anak today if I lived, as my legacy reads suggested.
Which I leave because yes, I can be wrong on wolfy looking townies, and I still want to win the game even when I'm wrong. So now that's part of my process, to have depth of thoughts which I express before someone has any chance to murder me, unlike Anak, because he's not worried about being murdered.
I should be dead or Shadow should be, for mechanical reasons only. That rand kill was not a good choice.
That's as far as my kill analysis goes. If the wolf team had me on it, one of those two slots would be dead, because I win games as scum.
That's a sloppy decision simply meant to remove someone who looks townie and who I never lynch. That's not the right call.
"I know who shadow would kill if he's a wolf" is not a real thought, Osie.
Anak reading Shadow townie and then lynching him and pre-expressing concerns about pizza which he deliberately saves until day 3 is not a real townie process.
Shadow's process isn't his real townie process either but you spewed him town. That overrides it.
I have no shame in roomba-ing a town win here. You should have killed me while I was still incorrect instead of getting greedy and not shooting inside pizza and shadow.
rand was checked out and stopped caring. You'd have won if he was alive. Not that I doubt his skills, he just stopped caring about the game due to the inactive slots.
Pizza-Shadow goating it up also impossible due to Osie's vote.
I self-vote with Anak for the win as well, because it's majority lynch.
Those majority lynch dangers are a son of a bee, aren't they? Osie's vote spews Anak-GJ mechanically clear as well, at least as far as not being the team.
That's not even exhaustive. Who else?
Shadow-GJ impossible due to d1
Shadow-Osie impossible due to d2
Shadow-Osie would be possible under majority lynch even if Osie votes first, because the scum team is never in danger of a scum majjing behind them, but it's impossible because of d2
Pizza-Anak impossible because we hammer that
Anak-GJ impossible because they hammer that
Pizza-GJ impossible because we hammer that
Wait until a townie misvotes in final 5, and townies have some awareness of the danger of voting, to boot.
I can be scum with Osie. I think that's the only possible way anyone can be scum atp, is to be scum with Osie.
Good thing I'm really town and that makes things easier to see, which is why I should have died last night if you ever shoot outside of shadow.
That avoids clusters like this. I talk all game about tally discipline, you'd think I'd have explained the concept to Osie by now in scum chat.
Oh technically pizza-anak possible because we can't hammer that because that's pizza-anak voting for pizza-anak.
Got ahead of myself.
But yeah I'm never wolfing with anak either because I'm town, so it makes things really easy and I should've been the murder or shadow should've been the murder.
Actual genuine bona fide derping from me. It's the only kind I do because derp clearing is for suckers who are afraid to read posts and make judgments based off of that.
So, is there a scum daychat that I don't know about? Because this sounds like you're talking about a scum daychat that you know about, probably because you were a part of it. Unless you're just calling Shadow a cheater.
Town Osie should have looked at all the analysis I did of Shadow and came to the same conclusion as me, that he was a wolf.
Umm... No? Your analysis was awful and basically entirely torn apart if Shadow is not playing to one part of his own, very diverse, metagame.
Keep in mind also that I have had issues with your posts throughout as well, and I'm significantly less likely to believe an argument from someone who I think to be scum on someone who I think to be town.
Osie brings up a really valid point, how do you have any idea scum have daychat?
Pizza you look like you live in absolutes, you finally have to accept that shadow is town so then you move onto me as scum-you-are-never-moving-off-of.
GJ I originally thought shadow was town, because his being checked out in the early game is so stark to the game I would have expected from scum him. So moving him to town is something that I can consider, especially with the vote shenanigans.
Pizza lists all the teams that don't work, and basically concludes that I have to be scum, but since I'm not he must be scum. I still believe Osie to be his best candidate for a partner, mostly because of what I thought of him earlier. Pointing out the daychat snafu changes that though, a buddy would have let that slide on D3, so it has to be GJ?
It's a normal game of mafia, except instead of voting for one player, you vote for two at once. Do this like Vote: Player1 and Player 2. Votecounts track pairs of players, so it could get a bit complex! When a pair reaches lynch threshold, the Day ends as normal in one of two ways:
1. Both players were scum: Game ends in a town win.
2. One or zero players were scum: Nothing happens and the game proceeds to Night.
Night phase is as normal.
There are 7 players, two of whom are scum.
Sign up today! We'll fire as soon as we have 7.
Note: As this is experimental, I reserve the right to make minor rules modifications to improve player experience.
Nothing about a daychat and that is categorically not a minor rules change. What the heck is going on?
I messaged Meg asking for confirmation on whether or not there is a daychat for scum. I really hope that the answer is no, because otherwise this is really dumb.
Normally I would not publicly answer this sort of question, but as this is an open setup and this is something that should have been included in the rules, I will confirm that the scum have only a Night chat, no Daychat.
Please carry on and, for those in my country, enjoy the holiday.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
I have some thoughts that I'm going to get to, I've been busy as well as wanting to see all the interactions at start of day without my opinions known.
Anak, I need you to go through your entrance into today and tell me what you were thinking, and give me your thoughts on Pizza.
Pizza, your biggest reason for clearing GJ yesterday was because you thought I was scum, but upon realizing I'm town, you didn't hardly give him a second glance, why?
Osie, do you have a plan for your first scum game here (if it's not this one); specifically, is there a certain scum playstyle that you'd try to mimic/improve upon?
GJ, what's your reason behind the "Shadow is town" thought exercise? What was your goal with it?
I have some thoughts that I'm going to get to, I've been busy as well as wanting to see all the interactions at start of day without my opinions known.
Osie, do you have a plan for your first scum game here (if it's not this one); specifically, is there a certain scum playstyle that you'd try to mimic/improve upon?
Not exactly. I have a bit of an idea, but it's not really fleshed out. Sorry to sorta dodge the question, but it's not something that I would want to reveal to a bunch of people on-site en masse at least until it is more fleshed out. I can talk to you about it out of thread at some point, though. Your opinion would probably be helpful in shoring up the rough edges.
Besides, I hope that before I have to try to play scum, I could go through a game as town without being heavy scumread. I will say that in a scum game, I would probably not try to grandstand and fearmonger to take over the game as "Town MVP," because that seems like a bad plan.
I will say that in a scum game, I would probably not try to grandstand and fearmonger to take over the game as "Town MVP," because that seems like a bad plan.
At least, no more than I do already in my games (which I'm certainly not trying to do much).
I have some thoughts that I'm going to get to, I've been busy as well as wanting to see all the interactions at start of day without my opinions known.
Why? Just to avoid shenanigans?
Because if no one knows my tin foils or my leanings coming into today, then they can't play to them. It's organic from town and guesswork from scum.
I have some thoughts that I'm going to get to, I've been busy as well as wanting to see all the interactions at start of day without my opinions known.
Why? Just to avoid shenanigans?
Because if no one knows my tin foils or my leanings coming into today, then they can't play to them. It's organic from town and guesswork from scum.
Okay, so to avoid shenanigans.
Seems good.
I think that I might not have enough patience to do that, but at the same time, it's mostly only viable if most people, including specifically people on both sides, are active. I don't know.
I think we may be onto something with GJ+Pizza, enough that Pizza got scared enough to make a mistake like suggest there's a day chat.
I think we may be onto something with GJ+Pizza, enough that Pizza got scared enough to make a mistake like suggest there's a day chat.
We are not onto anything.
Talk to me about your GJ read? FYI, day chat being a norm is a thing on other sites, I wouldn't put much stock into it. Frankly, if I was going to read anything into it, it would be that pizza isn't scum for not knowing that day that wasn't a thing.
Please stop posting.
Osieorb - Shadow (4): Pizza, randwolf, Anak, TCM
Pizza - TCM (1): Osieorb
Anak - Pizza (1): Shadow
The team of Osieorb and Shadowlancerx.....
is NOT the scum team!!!!!
It is now Night. Scumteam has 24h to submit a kill choice.
Randwolfsubout was killed! Obviously, he was town.
There are 5 alive now, which means 3 votes to lynch!
You will have a bit more deadline because of the holiday, but we'll still be aiming to finish somewhere in the 72 hour range.
Good luck!
Rand was the most thought of town outside of pizza so that makes sense in that regard.
I'm going with him being scum with you or GJ.
What does that even mean?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
You've posted fewer posts by virtue of subbing into the game?
I had before this post, exactly 1 less post than anak did. How can you get a read on him, but not have "much to go on" for me?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Discuss
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I was able to read more from his posts. No biggie.
So what, are you flipping a coin then, you can't get a read on me or are unwilling?
This is lynch or lose. If you are town and I am a mystery to you, why aren't you trying harder to figure out my alignment?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Just hadn't happened yet. And you're not that much of a mystery; by POE, you're one of three people who are likely to be scum, and the question is which team is the most likely. Speaking of "hadn't happened yet," now it has...
Okay so I have
* GJ - High ratio of low-information posts to high-information posts, light analysis, follows Pizza.
* Anak - Decent but wrong posts, decent analysis, follows Pizza.
* Pizza - Lots of mediocre to scummy posts, some seemingly town posts, too many really bad posts. Seemingly hard-worked analysis, but not outside the realm of fakeable.
* Shadow - Some posts that are questionable, but can mostly be accounted for with being tired. A town tone and a very reasonable number of pretty good posts, including some posts that aren't likely to come from scum.
I'm might be getting WIFOM'ed really hard here, but I think there's no way that the two people with the *****tiest posts are actually scum, and that at least one of the scum team is more middle of the road. So if this was a standard game, I'd be more inclined to suspect both Pizza and GJ. But I think Anak + Pizza is the most likely team.
Vote: Anak + Pizza
What does this mean?
Yeah, okay. I got over-excited.
Unvote
@Shadow: Who do you think is the most likely scum team? I'm still leaning Anak + Pizza, but I've been jumping on the other possibilities here and there over the course of the past couple of hours.
EBWODP: *considering
Town Osie should have looked at all the analysis I did of Shadow and came to the same conclusion as me, that he was a wolf.
None of it was ever acknowledged, so Osie is pocketing a wolfy-townie Shadow.
Shadow doing that play is performance artistry ballsy as scum, so now he's lock town.
Discuss how we're lynching only Osie and Only Anaklusmos only together today only.
Discuss.
Comes into the thread strong, with some questions that people kinda wondered what they were doing to solve. Asking tom if he's scum is... a joke, really, not a serious solve. Asking Shadow if he's awake, without a follow up, is not seriously solving.
But, I felt like his posts about Osie made him a contender for townieness.
Problems that are easier to see in retrospect, and with Shadow not on any possible team except with Anaklusmos.
Immediately locks onto Osie, in this evaluation, to distance himself from Osie-slot.
Evaluation of Shadow as town, where the meta should actually show Shadow as being a wolf. Especially in the analysis I gave. This is a strategic pocketing of Shadow.
Deals with the overwhelmingly townie townie Pizza-slot by simply marking it town. But, endgame is a thing, so later he starts to put little trail of breadcrumbs which reverses the read.
Instead of protecting his town read, as soon as he sees me pushing for that lynch desperately, he's willing to give me what I want.
How'd I do in protecting my town reads this game? None of them got lynched.
Basically asking me to give him permission to crush his own townie read, so he can be like "I had reservations" later.
Good sale.
Ok, here's where I screwed up the Anaklusmos read, making him a townie. This is what he quoted:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/778687-two-takes-it-day-three?comment=350
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/778687-two-takes-it-day-three?comment=351
Not copy and pasting all that.
"It started here, I noticed he answered rwsos question and gave lots of details on how it was just random, and realized that he had already answered that exact rwso three posts above! Like it's fine to answer the first time like he did, but then to answer it a second time, and throw out other reads at a point where it's basically RVS told me that he was trying to appease others rather than genuinely be town.
(next post)
This post has it a lot too, responding to things that just don't really make sense to. The timezones thing, the being across the pond, the site errors a ton of this post is just polite comments. But they really come across to me as someone trying to gain some easy towncred by helping out everyone with random little things, continuing the theme of appeasing people when he can"
So this all looks like actual town analysis of Osie. Especially what he's picking at, the part where Osie posted the same thing twice.
But remember, all Anak-wolf has to do this game is not make it obvious he's wolfing with Osie.
Which, if I believe he's a possible wolf with Shadow, and he distanced himself from Osie, is quite believable that he's believe that I'd believe that.
He's gotta break up the rand-pizza-tom block, so that explains those two deaths. I've invested the most out of anyone in the read of Shadow-wolf.
I still can't believe it's not butter, by the way. But he's going to get the so wolfy he's town read that rand got, because it's so ridiculously silly how Osie and anak town-read his slot. But not without getting a couple of lynches off of him, Osie's vote on d1, Anak's vote on d2, for example.
Now I'm sure they want all the credit in the world for town reading him.
No, you don't get jack for credit because those town reads were wrong. Even if he's town, the correct read on his slot based on what I showed you was that he was a wolf. How you got to him being town is because you happened to know he's town despite looking like the wolfiest version of himself that ever wolfed.
I'm at it's Anaklusmos and Shadow, or Anaklusmos and Osie. I've had a death tunnel on Shadow all game, and I can use rand and tom's reads on shadow being wolf and I can also use my own big fat case against him all as evidence that the third lynch of the game needs to be Anak and Shadow.
I'm getting that lynch today if I wanted it. Especially with GJ marking me as town. But I digress.
After Anak's initial flurry, his WIM and analysis and contribution to the game all drops off the planet.
And he's gotta make his reversing on pizza believable, so now "good luck faking that tone" becomes "I don't believe he can.... as scum", with "I'm worried about the read".
Those are odd thoughts to have simultaneously. Oh, randwolf is definitely town, no question. I'm worried about the read, though.
Still, everything's fine until day 2.
Here, Anak is safe as hell and has all day to do anything. This is what he does all day:
2 stalling posts
Third stalling post and more trail of breadcrumbs so he can reverse all his reads on day 3.
No GJ-Anak team.
Just waiting for GJ to hammer so the scum team can win in final 5.
Underlined, he's prepping to reverse his pizza town read.
"Feels like the only chance to win this is Day 3 anyway"
Meanwhile "checking Osie as scum with Shadow is the most likely course of action" and you're okay with it.
Look at that quick hammer after GJ places a vote. End the round. What's the legacy?
If Anak has all of these concerns, thoughts in his head about Pizza-scum, then he should be voicing them now, not hammering.
Instead, he's alluding to said scum lean, and making a path toward that reversal.
It's not a townie process to leave scum leans unvoiced and unfleshed out. Especially if it was dogging your mind for more than 1 entire phase.
Especially when the next round is lynch or lose and most of the folks in the game are town reading the slot.
Trail of breadcrumbs ends.
Outside of Shadow and Osie, you'd think. And yourself, since you've been hinting at your town read of pizza dropping until today.
So that's three votes.
Osie with no tally discipline and not a care in the world, pocketing scum-read shadow all game. Anak with no voicing of his "suspicions" on me and his unease with me until start of day 3 when he's the guy who had the hammer and could have voiced it at any time.
Anak voting for his town read, not defending his town read. Osie conveniently locking Shadow town once a lynch has already gone off on him and another one is in progress. Based on a process too convoluted to make any kind of sense, no reaction or response or actual debate to be had with the case I made against Shadow, which was brutal, which was based on hours of digging through Shadow's isos in several games, scum and town alike, which prove to anyone with no perfect information that he's scum as hell.
Which tom believed, which rand believed, which I believed, which GJ believed. That's 4 people who found Shadow to be wolfy based on him being frigging wolfy as all hell.
How do you arrive at that town read of Shadow?
By knowing he's not scum. It's the only way, since my meta argument blew away yours by leaps and bounds and miles and miles.
And how well did you defend your town read, guys?
He was lynched twice, at your hands, no less.
At least I actually thought the dude was howling scum. You can read it in all my danged posts.
And I still think Anak-Shadow is highly likely. His posts are that goddamned scummy.
But I don't buy Osie's town read of him, Osie's process in general, and Anak's process on him.
I'm a process guy. Even when I'm wrong, you can connect the dots easily from a to b to c to d on how I arrived at a wrong answer.
How you guys arrive at what may be the right answer, and still lynch your townie, is because it's good to have shadow being wolfy and pizza identifying his slot as wolfy, and letting those lynches happen.
By the way, Anak-Shadow team wins the game by majority lynching here.
So, despite my massive, massive, massive scum read on Shadow, the only possible team left for him was him and Anak.
And he doesn't slow roll. He told me so himself in other games. I can quote it, wanna know why, because I read his other games.
So, right here, all shadow has to do is go
Hey Anak, shh..... are you online?
-Yeah?
Let's both vote Anak Pizza for the win, brah!
-Awesome brah!
Thanks brah!
So, good job Osie, for blowing the possibility of Pizza lynching Shadow with your lack of tally discipline, same as day 1.
As scummy as that guy is, you just lock cleared him. Literally. There's no one in the game he can be scum with now.
m e c h a n i c a l l y
c l e a r
Not for being an apparent townie. Just because he now can't be a wolf unless he's slow rolling, which he says he doesn't do.
First thing he's said all game that I really believed.
If this is pocketing of you, I deserve this wolf win, don't I?
Lynch the folks that had the gall to both pocket you and lynch you, and arrived at a town read on you through the use of nothing but voodoo magic.
Low information slot that looked at least a little townie when he did post = that's as good as I'm gonna get.
GJ town. I was only ever lynching inside Osie-Anak or Shadow-Anak today if I lived, as my legacy reads suggested.
Which I leave because yes, I can be wrong on wolfy looking townies, and I still want to win the game even when I'm wrong. So now that's part of my process, to have depth of thoughts which I express before someone has any chance to murder me, unlike Anak, because he's not worried about being murdered.
I should be dead or Shadow should be, for mechanical reasons only. That rand kill was not a good choice.
That's as far as my kill analysis goes. If the wolf team had me on it, one of those two slots would be dead, because I win games as scum.
That's a sloppy decision simply meant to remove someone who looks townie and who I never lynch. That's not the right call.
"I know who shadow would kill if he's a wolf" is not a real thought, Osie.
Anak reading Shadow townie and then lynching him and pre-expressing concerns about pizza which he deliberately saves until day 3 is not a real townie process.
Shadow's process isn't his real townie process either but you spewed him town. That overrides it.
rand was checked out and stopped caring. You'd have won if he was alive. Not that I doubt his skills, he just stopped caring about the game due to the inactive slots.
Killing him such a bad play. That was your win.
Judge me Shadow, for I have judged you.
I'm placing Anak+Osie vote when GJ and Shadow are both ready. Never reversing.
I self-vote with Anak for the win as well, because it's majority lynch.
Those majority lynch dangers are a son of a bee, aren't they? Osie's vote spews Anak-GJ mechanically clear as well, at least as far as not being the team.
That's not even exhaustive. Who else?
Shadow-GJ impossible due to d1
Shadow-Osie impossible due to d2
Shadow-Osie would be possible under majority lynch even if Osie votes first, because the scum team is never in danger of a scum majjing behind them, but it's impossible because of d2
Pizza-Anak impossible because we hammer that
Anak-GJ impossible because they hammer that
Pizza-GJ impossible because we hammer that
Wait until a townie misvotes in final 5, and townies have some awareness of the danger of voting, to boot.
I can be scum with Osie. I think that's the only possible way anyone can be scum atp, is to be scum with Osie.
Good thing I'm really town and that makes things easier to see, which is why I should have died last night if you ever shoot outside of shadow.
That avoids clusters like this. I talk all game about tally discipline, you'd think I'd have explained the concept to Osie by now in scum chat.
Got ahead of myself.
But yeah I'm never wolfing with anak either because I'm town, so it makes things really easy and I should've been the murder or shadow should've been the murder.
So, is there a scum daychat that I don't know about? Because this sounds like you're talking about a scum daychat that you know about, probably because you were a part of it. Unless you're just calling Shadow a cheater.
Ramble ramble ramble ramble. What even is this garbage?
Umm... No? Your analysis was awful and basically entirely torn apart if Shadow is not playing to one part of his own, very diverse, metagame.
Keep in mind also that I have had issues with your posts throughout as well, and I'm significantly less likely to believe an argument from someone who I think to be scum on someone who I think to be town.
Pizza you look like you live in absolutes, you finally have to accept that shadow is town so then you move onto me as scum-you-are-never-moving-off-of.
GJ I originally thought shadow was town, because his being checked out in the early game is so stark to the game I would have expected from scum him. So moving him to town is something that I can consider, especially with the vote shenanigans.
Pizza lists all the teams that don't work, and basically concludes that I have to be scum, but since I'm not he must be scum. I still believe Osie to be his best candidate for a partner, mostly because of what I thought of him earlier. Pointing out the daychat snafu changes that though, a buddy would have let that slide on D3, so it has to be GJ?
Besides, there's no way meg gives scum a daychat in what is supposed to be a vanilla game, without telling town. That's bastard mod territory.
So either Pizza is admitting to cheating with a daychat or he's just fearmongering like nobody's business.
Nothing about a daychat and that is categorically not a minor rules change. What the heck is going on?
Please carry on and, for those in my country, enjoy the holiday.
You had half an hour in which to hammer it. That's not that long for this game, and we both know you're not on this 24/7.
@Anak, @Shadow: Pizza-GJ scum team?
Anak, I need you to go through your entrance into today and tell me what you were thinking, and give me your thoughts on Pizza.
Pizza, your biggest reason for clearing GJ yesterday was because you thought I was scum, but upon realizing I'm town, you didn't hardly give him a second glance, why?
Osie, do you have a plan for your first scum game here (if it's not this one); specifically, is there a certain scum playstyle that you'd try to mimic/improve upon?
GJ, what's your reason behind the "Shadow is town" thought exercise? What was your goal with it?
Why? Just to avoid shenanigans?
Not exactly. I have a bit of an idea, but it's not really fleshed out. Sorry to sorta dodge the question, but it's not something that I would want to reveal to a bunch of people on-site en masse at least until it is more fleshed out. I can talk to you about it out of thread at some point, though. Your opinion would probably be helpful in shoring up the rough edges.
Besides, I hope that before I have to try to play scum, I could go through a game as town without being heavy scumread. I will say that in a scum game, I would probably not try to grandstand and fearmonger to take over the game as "Town MVP," because that seems like a bad plan.
At least, no more than I do already in my games (which I'm certainly not trying to do much).
Okay, so to avoid shenanigans.
Seems good.
I think that I might not have enough patience to do that, but at the same time, it's mostly only viable if most people, including specifically people on both sides, are active. I don't know.
I think we may be onto something with GJ+Pizza, enough that Pizza got scared enough to make a mistake like suggest there's a day chat.
Talk to me about your GJ read? FYI, day chat being a norm is a thing on other sites, I wouldn't put much stock into it. Frankly, if I was going to read anything into it, it would be that pizza isn't scum for not knowing that day that wasn't a thing.