Initially, I had a strong townread on QuickHoodies, but that's since disappeared as I barely remember anything they've posted.
RE, I'm not sure if you remember this or not, but what initially gave you this strong townread of QH? The most I could ever find was this:
Quote from RE1031 »
QH I like so far. When mini spats happen, I find myself rooting for him. Which could be a very bad thing.
And I'm not exactly tracking your thought process here.
It's a weird thing I've noticed. Town annoys me more than scum. When I was reading Vaimes' posts from early, early game and was still becoming accustomed to who was actually playing, I found myself annoyed by his posts. Actually funny you brought that up...
To be honest, I don't 100% remember what made me townread QH. Maybe he just seemed likable, which thinking back, should have been all the warning signs. I think I also just found myself agreeing to his posts.
And then, I did really like his response to Grapefruit's post regarding the kpaca lynch. I had a similar view.
QH knows me from MAL. #441.
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You mean the "do work or else you'll end up being lynched"? I'm not.. exactly sure what is there to see in that post? JT is literally asking my slot to provide content or get lynched, and we all know how kpaca plays.
RE, now that you're here, I want to tell you something. I'm tunneling you pretty hardcore, but I don't want to lose the game. If you are town, and want to win, assume, for the moment, that I am scum, and try to look for someone else, unless you are similarly tunneled. And can we be polite to each other? I think that putting down others tends to come from a place of scumminess, to try to win off emotions than logic. No matter what happens, this is only a game, right? *offers handshake*
RE, now that you're here, I want to tell you something. I'm tunneling you pretty hardcore, but I don't want to lose the game. If you are town, and want to win, assume, for the moment, that I am scum, and try to look for someone else, unless you are similarly tunneled. And can we be polite to each other? I think that putting down others tends to come from a place of scumminess, to try to win off emotions than logic. No matter what happens, this is only a game, right? *offers handshake*
Yup. Today, I paid off a 40 dollar fine because I thought I purchased my parking permit but I apparently I didn't. It's really just a game. I apologize for being immature.
...
I don't think I'm voting Proph today or ever. If I don't read into the thing with shadow's defense of Grapefruit, then I think he is scum.
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shadowlx is still a lynch I like, but I might just reset my views on him from D1 and get somewhere with his D2 posts instead. It's true that my suspicions on him yesterday didn't feel properly strong with what I expressed in-thread.
"I still like this lynch on shadow, but I'm going to reset my views on him from Day 1 and evaluate his Day 2 posts". Does he do that ever?
Right now I'm at shadow/LnG/RE. I'd be very surprised if Terry was scum.
Final Day 1 Votecount - With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.
Sorry I've been lacking here. I got burnt out catching up in the game I just replaced into. I've read about the first 12 pages again and will keep reading. What I'm sitting at right now is the fact that despite the play of their replacements Kpaca and AG both looked really scummy. Do we have to call the extension now or could we wait till the last minute?
I am also in favor of an extension, we have 3 available and I don't think we need to rush through this.@RE: Walk me through your process today; I'm trying to figure out how you came to me being scum, because iirc you started saying I was scum yesterday because of my ethereal Grapefruit defense, which I've adequately explained now. I'm fine with you not considering it alignment indicative, as I tried to play it pretty tight to avoid ugly OoG scenarios, but what exactly are you scum reading me for then? And who is the third in that world?
@Proph: Why does your wagon specifically require one of Lingerer or I to be scum? It was a CFD attempt off of one townie onto (from your pov) another townie. What makes you think scum didn't sit back and let a no lynch happen?
@Lingerer: From a behavior standpoint, I'd say the same about you as you did about Terry, if you're scum you're doing a darn good job (and I think you are >rand scum here because game design, but it's LyLo and I don't want to lose by not exploring all options).
Who do you think makes the most sense as a partner for RE?
I stand by the fact that I don't think Shadow and Lng and be on a scum team with QH, too much PR for scum not enough for town. So we either have AG/LNG handing out shots as scum to ONLY town, or we have Town AG/LNG handing out shots at their best discretion.
Now let's plug in who shadow targeted when handed the shots. Proph and Vaimes. If AG/LNG is town handing out shots, shadow is scum, targeting Proph and Vaimes, making Proph town (Shadow doesn't use that shot on a teammate because it does no good to the scum team). That makes Proph and LNG the town team. I think this is all I need.
If AG/LNG are scum only handing out shots to town, we have no concrete data, but it is a stretch to think AG/LNG's ability has a restriction on it that they can only hand out shots to town. On top of that the targets seem pretty logical from a AG/LNG!town perspective.
Now plug in Shadow's targets as a neighborizer assuming that the scum team is him & RE and AG/LNG. He chatted with Proph, Grape Fruit and Me. It doesn't conflict.
The QH vs. Proph fight works in this scenario, the LNG vs. RE fight works in this scenario.
RE is scum in two of the three real possibilities on the scum teams.
@Shadow, you make the most sense to me as a partner to RE. Terry and RE fought the entire game. It could be turbobussing, but that early? Felt genuine. And on my read-through, Proph saw the same weird things about RE, and asked nearly the exact same questions. Like, in my head while doing RE's iso, I would be like, "Wait, that makes no sense" and then Proph would say a few posts later, "Hey RE, that makes no sense." If he is scum, he is playing with a very townie process. Also, I feel like Proph pushed RE far more than RE actually pushed Proph. RE says that Proph is scum, but she never got into a battle with him like she did Terry.
I will say your defense of GF felt pretty townie, and it's honorable one way or another.
@Shadow, you make the most sense to me as a partner to RE. Terry and RE fought the entire game. It could be turbobussing, but that early? Felt genuine. And on my read-through, Proph saw the same weird things about RE, and asked nearly the exact same questions. Like, in my head while doing RE's iso, I would be like, "Wait, that makes no sense" and then Proph would say a few posts later, "Hey RE, that makes no sense." If he is scum, he is playing with a very townie process. Also, I feel like Proph pushed RE far more than RE actually pushed Proph. RE says that Proph is scum, but she never got into a battle with him like she did Terry.
I got into a battle with Terry because he frequently called many of my posts slips. He also made this dichotomy where if kpaca was town, then he would bet I was scum, which I disliked. It was more of a battle of me being annoyed of having to put up with reasoning I found inadequate than a battle of suspicion.
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I made a solid post on #3069, can I get feedback? I seriously am ready to vote RE right now. The only reason I didn't was because it was actually RE's list I started working off.
RE, he wasn't the only one though. I am pretty sure others also said the same things as Terry.
You mean if kpaca wasn't scum, I was? And that I was slipping? I don't think anyone else agreed with those points specifically, at least at the stage of the game.
I made a solid post on #3069, can I get feedback? I seriously am ready to vote RE right now. The only reason I didn't was because it was actually RE's list I started working off.
I think you are too reliant on what shadow would and would not do as scum.
It'd be nice to win but I'm not even confident that my vote will land on scum. So this will be the less guilt free route, I guess.
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I made a solid post on #3069, can I get feedback? I seriously am ready to vote RE right now. The only reason I didn't was because it was actually RE's list I started working off.
Terry: I think Lingerer is way more likely to be scum, and the team that makes the most sense with RE is with Lingerer anyway. Like say what you want about bussing, but it's a thing that wins games.
I'll try to sort through this game tomorrow and finish my reread, but @shadow: Why do you think the scumteam is LnG/RE? Why am I not a possibility from your point of view?
I'll try to sort through this game tomorrow and finish my reread, but @shadow: Why do you think the scumteam is LnG/RE? Why am I not a possibility from your point of view?
Where are you getting that from? My currently top pick for scum team is Lingerer/you, and your multiple instances of misrepresenting/misreading people is not making me feel any better about you.
I partially requested an extension because I would otherwise have been gone as we got to the deadline; V/LA until Sunday night/Monday morning
I made a solid post on #3069, can I get feedback? I seriously am ready to vote RE right now. The only reason I didn't was because it was actually RE's list I started working off.
Terry: I think Lingerer is way more likely to be scum, and the team that makes the most sense with RE is with Lingerer anyway. Like say what you want about bussing, but it's a thing that wins games.
From this basically, but I understand how I could misread it.
If you think I'm scum then why have you made no attempt to interact or engage with me? Like I'm literally Ctrl-Fing "Proph" in your first page ISO and all I see are 7 mentions.
Also shadow if you could pick one thing you did this game that makes you town this game, what would it be? Other people can answer this question if they want.
Hey Proph. I'm rereading during slow bouts at work. Hypothetical: RE flips scum. Who is the last scum left, and why?
That's hard.
I don't think JoeTerry is scum, especially not with RE's interactions with him early in the game. That'd be a lot of distancing before distancing is required, and I think JoeTerry is town regardless due to his behavior for most of the game.
It's either between you or shadow tbh, and I am slightly leaning towards shadow because Quickhoodies's push on shadow felt really really weird. Like, he started it in Day 1 and then just dropped it.
@RE: Walk me through your process today; I'm trying to figure out how you came to me being scum, because iirc you started saying I was scum yesterday because of my ethereal Grapefruit defense, which I've adequately explained now. I'm fine with you not considering it alignment indicative, as I tried to play it pretty tight to avoid ugly OoG scenarios, but what exactly are you scum reading me for then? And who is the third in that world?
Sorry, I missed this. I've seen that defense where you defend/whiteknight someone with little to no reasoning come far more often from scum than town. It wasn't the only thing I was reading you off of, but it did make me more confident in you being scum. Disregarding that, I'm less confident, but my scum read still comes from the fact your most townie actions have not been reads but a genuine tone and something along the lines of "would scum really do that?"
Also, I don't really know what to make of how you've used your ability. I think if you are town, it should be used to figure out who you think is scum by grilling them. The only person I think you did this with was Proph. Personal preference, maybe.
Something strange I noticed: I am the only one still alive who has had zero interaction with abilities. Hmm.
@Shadow, you make the most sense to me as a partner to RE. Terry and RE fought the entire game. It could be turbobussing, but that early? Felt genuine. And on my read-through, Proph saw the same weird things about RE, and asked nearly the exact same questions. Like, in my head while doing RE's iso, I would be like, "Wait, that makes no sense" and then Proph would say a few posts later, "Hey RE, that makes no sense." If he is scum, he is playing with a very townie process. Also, I feel like Proph pushed RE far more than RE actually pushed Proph. RE says that Proph is scum, but she never got into a battle with him like she did Terry.
What do you make of the fact he was not scumreading me at the time of those questions?
Also, I should have asked this earlier, but day 5, you said you would target me or Proph. Today, you said you would have targeted Terry. Why the change?
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1. AtheistGod's posts felt like they were coming from a mafia mindset. He was willing to lynch both Shinichi and Wheat by saying that "both were scum". It feels like he was trying to aggressively push through townie mislynches, and he barely had any desire to solve or any townie tonal posts. I do realize that you can't defend against that since you replaced in, but it's something I'm taking into account.
2. I am kind of paranoid of your hard push on RE. I know that most of it started Yesterday, but I have a slight gut feeling that you might be strong arming the RE mislynch for the win. Now, I've looked over your posts and reasoning and your suspicion on RE seems legit (like, I can read it and it can conceivably be coming from a town mindset) but paranoia man.
3. Your interactions with QH aren't that great. He was townreading you for most of the time when he was alive and he refused to suspect you even though both of your claims overlapped.
3. Your interactions with QH aren't that great. He was townreading you for most of the time when he was alive and herefused to suspect you even though both of your claims overlapped.
I feel #454 and #1126 are key posts where QH talks about AG. The first doesn't say much actually, and looking back, I think this was an (successful) attempt to gain townpoints (as Mindreaver and I gave him some for it). What's noteworthy is QH directly compares AG and kpaca. I can see this as if kpaca were to flip town, the pressure on AG would have been alleviated. Or it could be QH just townreading everyone, idk. The second is strange to me because if AG were to be lynched and flip scum, it would instantly put QH in a very compromising position. I can't tell if this is an example of "power wolfing" or whiteknighting.
Basically, thoughts?
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Man QH just put RE and AG into his town slot, which makes it really difficult to discern if he is actually townreading a buddy or townreading somebody he knows is town. :/
Quote from QH »
Vaimes and AG are town to me, as I explained in #1126, and I doubt this will ever change, especially if we're starting to catch scum outside of Vaimes and AG.
Quote from QH »
RE1031: the reaction to Terry's trap or whatever is the biggest town-tell. And for #1234.
3. Your interactions with QH aren't that great. He was townreading you for most of the time when he was alive and herefused to suspect you even though both of your claims overlapped.
I feel #454 and #1126 are key posts where QH talks about AG. The first doesn't say much actually, and looking back, I think this was an (successful) attempt to gain townpoints (as Mindreaver and I gave him some for it). What's noteworthy is QH directly compares AG and kpaca. I can see this as if kpaca were to flip town, the pressure on AG would have been alleviated. Or it could be QH just townreading everyone, idk. The second is strange to me because if AG were to be lynched and flip scum, it would instantly put QH in a very compromising position. I can't tell if this is an example of "power wolfing" or whiteknighting.
Basically, thoughts?
I feel like his 454 was an attempt to take a hard stance and look like he was actually trying to care about the game. I agree with you it was a successful attempt to gain townpoints by whiteknighting my slot.
For the second post, again, I am not sure if it is just QH trying to townread a buddy or if he KNOWS the AG slot was town.
@Roph, yeah that's fair. I just want to make sure that if I am the lynch and we lose, I did all I could to fight against it. I know QH threw some shade towards my slot, but I don't know if it was before or after the posts you quoted, and it is all pretty much WIFOM anyways.
@RE, you and Proph were at the bottom of my list yesterDay. I was hoping that scum would kill one of you for fear of being targeted with the shot. (Plus since I was giving it to Terry anyways, if you were both scum, no harm no foul.)
Also RE - if you could pick one thing you did this game that makes you town this game, what would it be?
I don't really know, but I would say my reaction Roger/Rhand's soft flavor claim. It wasn't a good reaction or anything, and now that it's pretty clear that flavor was never AI (I didn't read the sign up thread post properly), it doesn't mean much - but like Rhand said, it showed that I was willing to compare someone else's claim to mine, whereas scum would be more hesitant to do so.
I thought it was actually a pretty cool "trick," and I kinda want to use it as a gambit eventually...
Sadly I don't really have any scum lynches I got behind to back up my cause.
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Thinking out loud/conspiracy theory: There were only 2 scum in this game. I don't see Proph as scum. Terry is strange but he's gotten into too many fights, suspected nearly everyone, which is more of towntell. Without LnG's ability, QH probably would have gotten off scot-free (plus after I decided to read through my ISO in attempt to find something "town" I did, I could see why LnG is suspecting me - I've had AG as scum nearly since the beginning of the game; if LnG is town, this would be very weird.)
@RE, you and Proph were at the bottom of my list yesterDay. I was hoping that scum would kill one of you for fear of being targeted with the shot. (Plus since I was giving it to Terry anyways, if you were both scum, no harm no foul.)
Why would scum fear being targeted with the shot?
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To be honest, I don't 100% remember what made me townread QH. Maybe he just seemed likable, which thinking back, should have been all the warning signs. I think I also just found myself agreeing to his posts.
And then, I did really like his response to Grapefruit's post regarding the kpaca lynch. I had a similar view.
QH knows me from MAL. #441.
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...
I don't think I'm voting Proph today or ever. If I don't read into the thing with shadow's defense of Grapefruit, then I think he is scum.
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Right now I'm at shadow/LnG/RE. I'd be very surprised if Terry was scum.
My wagon virtually guarantees a scum between LnG and shadow I think.
LnG or RE here for Wheat wagon.
Blegh I'm always at shadow/RE in these vote counts. Like, it's always in between shadow/LnG, LnG/RE, or shadow/RE. This is not helpful
I'm going to try and look at this more tomorrow. Also, I think deadline is in three days, which means we should probably request an extension.
@RE: Walk me through your process today; I'm trying to figure out how you came to me being scum, because iirc you started saying I was scum yesterday because of my ethereal Grapefruit defense, which I've adequately explained now. I'm fine with you not considering it alignment indicative, as I tried to play it pretty tight to avoid ugly OoG scenarios, but what exactly are you scum reading me for then? And who is the third in that world?
@Proph: Why does your wagon specifically require one of Lingerer or I to be scum? It was a CFD attempt off of one townie onto (from your pov) another townie. What makes you think scum didn't sit back and let a no lynch happen?
@Lingerer: From a behavior standpoint, I'd say the same about you as you did about Terry, if you're scum you're doing a darn good job (and I think you are >rand scum here because game design, but it's LyLo and I don't want to lose by not exploring all options).
Who do you think makes the most sense as a partner for RE?
AG/LNG targeted:
Vaimes
shadow
shadow
Grape
Nobody
1. Vaimes checked Rhand
2. shadow checked Proph
3. shadow checked Vaimes
4. Grape checked QH
5. Nobody
I stand by the fact that I don't think Shadow and Lng and be on a scum team with QH, too much PR for scum not enough for town. So we either have AG/LNG handing out shots as scum to ONLY town, or we have Town AG/LNG handing out shots at their best discretion.
Now let's plug in who shadow targeted when handed the shots. Proph and Vaimes. If AG/LNG is town handing out shots, shadow is scum, targeting Proph and Vaimes, making Proph town (Shadow doesn't use that shot on a teammate because it does no good to the scum team). That makes Proph and LNG the town team. I think this is all I need.
If AG/LNG are scum only handing out shots to town, we have no concrete data, but it is a stretch to think AG/LNG's ability has a restriction on it that they can only hand out shots to town. On top of that the targets seem pretty logical from a AG/LNG!town perspective.
Now plug in Shadow's targets as a neighborizer assuming that the scum team is him & RE and AG/LNG. He chatted with Proph, Grape Fruit and Me. It doesn't conflict.
The QH vs. Proph fight works in this scenario, the LNG vs. RE fight works in this scenario.
RE is scum in two of the three real possibilities on the scum teams.
FOS: RE
I will say your defense of GF felt pretty townie, and it's honorable one way or another.
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It'd be nice to win but I'm not even confident that my vote will land on scum. So this will be the less guilt free route, I guess.
The Queen of Hearts
She made some tarts,
All on a summer's day;
The Knave of Hearts
He stole those tarts,
And took them clean away.
The King of Hearts
Called for the tarts,
And searched for days fourscore;
The Knave of Hearts
wooed and wed the tarts,
And vowed he'd steal some more.
Votecount 6.1 - With 5 alive, it's 3 to lynch.
Not Voting: LnGrrrR, Prophylaxis, RE1031, shadowlancerx, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Please inform me of any errors.
Deadline is Saturday, September 16th, at 1700 MDT (a little under 48 hours from now).
Deadline is now set to Tuesday, September 19th, at 1700 MDT.
> barely use it
I'll try to sort through this game tomorrow and finish my reread, but @shadow: Why do you think the scumteam is LnG/RE? Why am I not a possibility from your point of view?
I partially requested an extension because I would otherwise have been gone as we got to the deadline; V/LA until Sunday night/Monday morning
If you think I'm scum then why have you made no attempt to interact or engage with me? Like I'm literally Ctrl-Fing "Proph" in your first page ISO and all I see are 7 mentions.
Also shadow if you could pick one thing you did this game that makes you town this game, what would it be? Other people can answer this question if they want.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Will be around for the next three hours, working on homework and finally coming to a conclusion on this game.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
That's hard.
I don't think JoeTerry is scum, especially not with RE's interactions with him early in the game. That'd be a lot of distancing before distancing is required, and I think JoeTerry is town regardless due to his behavior for most of the game.
It's either between you or shadow tbh, and I am slightly leaning towards shadow because Quickhoodies's push on shadow felt really really weird. Like, he started it in Day 1 and then just dropped it.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Also, I don't really know what to make of how you've used your ability. I think if you are town, it should be used to figure out who you think is scum by grilling them. The only person I think you did this with was Proph. Personal preference, maybe.
Something strange I noticed: I am the only one still alive who has had zero interaction with abilities. Hmm.
What do you make of the fact he was not scumreading me at the time of those questions?
Also, I should have asked this earlier, but day 5, you said you would target me or Proph. Today, you said you would have targeted Terry. Why the change?
2. I am kind of paranoid of your hard push on RE. I know that most of it started Yesterday, but I have a slight gut feeling that you might be strong arming the RE mislynch for the win. Now, I've looked over your posts and reasoning and your suspicion on RE seems legit (like, I can read it and it can conceivably be coming from a town mindset) but paranoia man.
3. Your interactions with QH aren't that great. He was townreading you for most of the time when he was alive and he refused to suspect you even though both of your claims overlapped.
Basically, thoughts?
I feel like his 454 was an attempt to take a hard stance and look like he was actually trying to care about the game. I agree with you it was a successful attempt to gain townpoints by whiteknighting my slot.
For the second post, again, I am not sure if it is just QH trying to townread a buddy or if he KNOWS the AG slot was town.
Trying to figure out if one of LnG/RE is scum with shadow OR if RE/LnG are both scum bussing each other is kind of a chore.
@RE, you and Proph were at the bottom of my list yesterDay. I was hoping that scum would kill one of you for fear of being targeted with the shot. (Plus since I was giving it to Terry anyways, if you were both scum, no harm no foul.)
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I thought it was actually a pretty cool "trick," and I kinda want to use it as a gambit eventually...
Sadly I don't really have any scum lynches I got behind to back up my cause.
Thinking out loud/conspiracy theory: There were only 2 scum in this game. I don't see Proph as scum. Terry is strange but he's gotten into too many fights, suspected nearly everyone, which is more of towntell. Without LnG's ability, QH probably would have gotten off scot-free (plus after I decided to read through my ISO in attempt to find something "town" I did, I could see why LnG is suspecting me - I've had AG as scum nearly since the beginning of the game; if LnG is town, this would be very weird.)
Why would scum fear being targeted with the shot?