Thanks Grape for your response. Watching you work out my alignment is very enlightening to me.
This is a scum confession. This is scum saying, "Thank you for observing, aka critiquing, my performance as scum. I will use it for my later games as scum."
Also, been dying to say this, in response to the bold: SCUM SLIP. You are acknowledging the fact that Proph is scum. To accuse me of bussing is to indirectly address scum!Proph. Don't even get how Proph's town read on me ties us together. He's townreading everyone except QH. So glad I didn't die last night because...
#2364 - How did you come to that conclusion? I'm saying you and Proph are scumbuddies. Not you and Grape.
But you're also saying that EL and Proph are scum buddies and I think if anything is abundantly clear in this game it should be that EL and I are not scum buddies, so that makes what you're suggesting nearly impossible and the reason why I was confused.
Dear god, your posts at the end of phase change yesterday are a mess. There is a level of misunderstanding and misinterpreting and misrepresenting someone can reach, and you went up and beyond. That is as scummy as it gets.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
RE I was suggesting that you and proph are scum buddies, how is that a slip? For that to be a slip, I would have to be scum with YOU. This is exactly what I was talking about!
RE I was suggesting that you and proph are scum buddies, how is that a slip? For that to be a slip, I would have to be scum with YOU. This is exactly what I was talking about!
If you think Proph and I are scumbuddies, vote Proph with me~
Or before me. I'm good either way.
I was including flavor claiming which I don't think everyone has. Probably isn't helpful, but I want thoroughness. And unfortunately my shot doesn't tell me if they're scum which you know Terry.
Hello all! I haven't read the whole game, But I read the last ten pages or so and GF felt the towniest, plus claimed a tiny role. RE and StinkyTerry feel the scummiest to me, but I am on my phone so I will have to share why later. Terry's antagonism towards GF discussing the cop shot is one example.
Okay so let me express some regret for EL replacing out. I really appreciated that he was a replacement that was engaged, competent, and active - you really don't see those types of players nowadays, and him replacing out makes me kind of sad. I understand that he was combative but still.
EL if you're somehow still reading this game hit me up after the game ends, I can point you to other mafia sites you may have better times on.
---
Quote from Grapefruit »
So right now my hard game reset town block is me and Shadow.
My don't lynch today pile is RE, EL, and Terry.
Grape, assuming that I'm town, who do you think is the scum on the Shinichi wagon? That's the vote count I'm trying to base the game off of.
Quote from Grapefruit »
Proph, QH, and AG make up my lynch today preferences with QH and AG being way way scummier than Proph atm. I think the main way we lose this game is if Terry or EL is scum with RE. I don't think Terry and RE are ever aligned so we're probably okay on that front. And I'm swinging wildly back and forth on EL right now. Around when I claimed I had him as >rand to be scum but now I'm having to stop myself from putting him in my town block. So I'm torn.
Since EL was NK'd and flipped town, what's your view on the gamestate right now? If QH is scum, then who do you think his buddies are? Why do you think the scum killed EL?
I still like JT's 2190? I keep reading it over and over again and I am a fan of how he is trying to explain and run through his thought process, which scum don't normally do. This part in here feels especially townie to me:
Quote from JT »
Now it seems a lot less likely a fake claim coming from grape, but as I'm verbally diarrheaing here something starts tickling my brain. Also, bullet proof is a logical scum fake claim at this point, which is what I was hoping to prevent. I'm a bit worried about this because there was no reason for Grape to blow his wad right now. In fact, a player with no reason to claim that just comes out and claims something like this in MyLo is definitely a bit disconcerting. It's actually a gross misuse of the role (queue EL yelling his head off that I'm scum for even suggesting that his dear flavor-town-cleared bulletproof friend, Grape might be scum). I'm going to go back and look at reactions following the no kill with the new pieces in place.
I just really like the big window into his thought process there.
----
@shadowlancerx - Do you have any thoughts/reactions/re-evaluation to the Shinichi town flip? You were pushing for his lynch so hard and you seemed so convinced that he was scum that it feels kind of strange that immediately after his flip, I don't really see any outburst of surprise or anything like that. I dunno.
Quote from Quickhoodies »
I still have some beef with Proph from the last Day which I still have to finish reading.
Dude.
You completely avoiding taking hard stances Yesterday and you have zero reactions or re-evaluations to the Shinichi town flip. You literally just.. let the lynch happen, and I still don't understand your about-face on your stance on his lynch. Now that Wheat and Shin both flipped town, I really just think you're scum based off of PoE and behavior.
If you're town, this game is on you. Tell me, why are you a villager this game? What actions have you taken that have benefitted the town?
Oh my god, I'm going to get myself lynched with this, but I think that's game solved right there.
Town tone from JT.
Quote from RE »
@Proph
You've made it a point to say that you think you are being pocketed multiple times. What is the point in that? When you break it down, you are basically saying that anyone in your townreads could be scum.
It's lylo. We need to re-evaluate in order to win this game, because there are three bad guys left and we need to lynch all of them in succession to win. It's not impossible, but it is very difficult, especially since we don't have any mafia flips yet. I still am feeling comfortable on my townreads but I am worried that I am sinking into the realm of confirmation bias. That's why I'm trying to iron out the gamestate and see if I can crack it open Today.
Quote from RE »
Current team I'm thinking of but too lazy to explain but will if need be:
Proph/QH/Terry
Please explain? Want to hear your thought process here. <<< never mind Grape got to it.
Quote from RE »
Proph is bussing. And QH is actually doing nothing. And I know QH (Mishukax) has bussed before, so. Independently, they are scummy enough. Proph's reads list can actually be summarized as "people who could be scum and people we should lynch."
You're literally handwaving all of my posts by saying that. I know I haven't been the most active player this game, but I've been trying to make a concerted effort to solve it while I've been in the thread. I'm going to have to see more reasoning than that.
I've been arguing with QH because he fixated on me and no one seems to want to go through the effort of going through his walls. I am a professional wall-checker* so that's why I've been breaking down and analyzing his walls so that other people could digest them.
* (+1 if you get this reference)
Quote from RE »
Just check out his reads list. The people in his town pile he keeps claiming he's probably being pocketed - which is one way of saying he'll switch to any of them but doesn't want the repercussion of doing so. Also, he keeps narrowing down his suspects to include Terry, yet doesn't seem to want to doubt him.
Like I said earlier. Lylo is when we re-evaluate people. You can't just sit on your townreads the entire game and PoE the scum that way - if one scum is in your townreads, which is likely, then the game becomes lost.
I don't want to doubt Terry because he keeps making very townie posts that I have a hard time seeing him making as scum. But when I look at the votals he is in there along with Grape and shadow. Like, who is the scum on the Shinichi wagon?
Quote from RE »
I almost wish I planned this as a trap, but it was a lucky coincidence. Admitting to your own inactivity? You play the "reverse-psychology" method too much. Kinda like how you voted yourself in the second game I linked. Sigh.
I was just extremely interested when you said that inactivity is a way to catch me as scum but I was very inactive that entire week (because of Champs game) and you didn't really mention about it. Feels a little bit like mindset dissonance to me.
I'm 100% on board with full claims, we are in a true LyLo.
Last night I chatted with Terry, and I have some mulling over to do from our chat.
Can you repost the chat here?
Also can you answer my question about the Shinichi town flip? I'm kind of paranoid about you since we haven't engaged super much other than the neighbor chat so I want some dialogue with you.
@proph: I didn't react in thread the next day because I blew off all of my steam in my chat with Grapefruit immediately afterward. So yes, I did some reevaluation, and grape and I talked at length.
If any one remembers me from WotC Paranoia Paradise mafia forum, it was kind of my meta signature.
Who were you on Px2? I may recognize your name.
Also if the sleep tell is a thing then JT might just be town?
Quote from JT »
1. I lost sleep over this game last night and was thinking about it a lot.
Quote from QH »
This fight has become such a convoluted mess that I don't even want to analyze its posts. So excuse me if my catch-up post lacks comments about it.
I'm not lending my vote to an AG lynch today. No-lynch does sound like the logical move so I might have to hold off on Proph. I'll go into respectable details about my reads soon.
plz explain
JT's analysis about why he thinks I'm town due to the CFD attempt at EoD is good.
Big fan of how Grape is attempting to solve the game by rereading. Once I finish catching up I will have to do the same.
Quote from RE »
^^You can take this pretty much as a scum confession from Proph.
:rollseyes:
That has to be one of the weakest pieces of reasoning I've ever seen. How does me being inactive due to taking my final make you think I'm scum?
I'm so confused as to why you think I'm scum. Post 2362 does nearly nothing for me in terms of me trying to figure out your thought process and how you think.
Quote from RE »
This is a scum confession. This is scum saying, "Thank you for observing, aka critiquing, my performance as scum. I will use it for my later games as scum."
How? I was asking Grape questions because it feels like we haven't really worked together/interacted this game for the most part yet he kept scumreading me which came out of left field because he hasn't provided much reasoning as to why he thought I was scum. I wanted to hear his reasoning and for him to start engaging with me so I could remain more solidified on his alignment.
@proph: I didn't react in thread the next day because I blew off all of my steam in my chat with Grapefruit immediately afterward. So yes, I did some reevaluation, and grape and I talked at length.
Grapefruit, can you confirm this?
Where are you at with the game right now? If you had to shoot scum or the game would end (basically the same situation we are in right now), who would you pick?
Quote from shadowlancerx »
I quote the chat, but I'll summarize it if you'd like (probs later on today, only have time for fly by posting currently)
@LnGrrR With EL dead the only potential dichotomy's are heavy reciprocated pushes between proph/QH (D3 and 4) and Terry/Re (day 1 and 2). So I'd want evidence for having Terry and RE together. Not impossible, just feels less likely than other configurations.
I also have slight vibes based on your slot, but that doesn't help you at all LnGrrR.
@Proph I can confirm there was some Shin flip based debriefing/emotion in Shadow and my chat. I'll get into your content in a while, but can I ask where you are on RE? YesterDay you seemed pretty in the town camp, but you seem be walking that back toDay. Just went to see if this is reevaluation or a firm change in read?
Hello all! I haven't read the whole game, But I read the last ten pages or so and GF felt the towniest, plus claimed a tiny role. RE and StinkyTerry feel the scummiest to me, but I am on my phone so I will have to share why later. Terry's antagonism towards GF discussing the cop shot is one example.
You should probably read the whole game. We are in LyLo and I'm town and even if I were scum, I am most definitely not scum with RE. So do me a favor and don't vote until you've actually read the game.
@proph: I didn't react in thread the next day because I blew off all of my steam in my chat with Grapefruit immediately afterward. So yes, I did some reevaluation, and grape and I talked at length.
Grapefruit, can you confirm this?
Where are you at with the game right now? If you had to shoot scum or the game would end (basically the same situation we are in right now), who would you pick?
Quote from shadowlancerx »
I quote the chat, but I'll summarize it if you'd like (probs later on today, only have time for fly by posting currently)
Summarizing would be great.
I have to say, it was an interesting chat. Neither of us really trusted the other. It does at least confirm that if Shadow = scum, it's unlikely that Proph, Grape or I are buddies with him.
The problem is 1 of Shadow and AG pretty much has to be town or we're super under powered (assuming death guard=body guard). And I'm leaning towards betting the game on AG. That said I really want to hear from QH when their Mylo finishes.
This is something that I caught over the chat with Shadow. So if neither Shadow, night chatter, and AG, Vanilla Cop Giver Outer (both confirmed roles) then the town is underpowered with a bodyguard (in Grapes own opinion) and a bulletproof. See that's a problem, because if town has a bodyguard and a bulletproof and an announcer in a 12 player game, I think the town is OVER-powered.
So if neither Shadow, night chatter, and AG, Vanilla Cop Giver Outer (both confirmed roles) are town, then the town is underpowered with a bodyguard (in Grapes own opinion) and a bulletproof.
Wait, wasn't Terry the one who got all mad at the way EL was interacting with him? And then he responds like above? I replaced in to try and help out the game; telling me to read 45 pages like I don't have, oh, I don't know, a job and a family and life, is pretty rude.
The reason I gave Grape the shot was to at least prove my ability. I know my slot is the most likely right now for the game-ending mislynch, and I'm going to take pains to prevent it. But I'm pretty sure I can't just tell the wife to take care of my three kids because I have 7 hours of reading to do. Until I DO catch up, I'm going to interact.
Also, why the "fear" about me voting, when I haven't done so yet? Do you think I'm an idiot? Or are you just fearmongering me to push the mislynch?
So if neither Shadow, night chatter, and AG, Vanilla Cop Giver Outer (both confirmed roles) are town, then the town is underpowered with a bodyguard (in Grapes own opinion) and a bulletproof.
Yes, I believe that very firmly. Crier is close to vanilla in terms of power level imo, and body guard is among the weakest mess with the NK roles. BP on the otherhand is very powerful but that would leave town without any investigative role at all. And why I was fishing for opinions on Shadow's chat's as a quasi investigative role.
And we have very different ideas on game balance if you think BP, BG, crier and vanilla's is over powered compared to Neighborizor, vanilla cop giver, and X (presumably goon). Also that set up just doesn't make any sort of sense to me so I'm pretty sure LnGrrrR and Shadow aren't scum together at least.
Grapefruit: Clarice Starling: BP
RSJT: Miggs, Psychopath: Town Vanilla
Shadow: Frederick Chilton, Town Shrink (neighborizor)
RE: Catherine Martin, Town Vanilla
Proph: Senator Ruth Martin, Town Vanilla.
LnGrrrR: Hannibal Lector, Town Psycho-consultant (vanilla cop shot granter)
QH: ???
Wait, wasn't Terry the one who got all mad at the way EL was interacting with him? And then he responds like above? I replaced in to try and help out the game; telling me to read 45 pages like I don't have, oh, I don't know, a job and a family and life, is pretty rude.
The reason I gave Grape the shot was to at least prove my ability. I know my slot is the most likely right now for the game-ending mislynch, and I'm going to take pains to prevent it. But I'm pretty sure I can't just tell the wife to take care of my three kids because I have 7 hours of reading to do. Until I DO catch up, I'm going to interact.
Also, why the "fear" about me voting, when I haven't done so yet? Do you think I'm an idiot? Or are you just fearmongering me to push the mislynch?
No, I'm saying you should read the game because you're basing your reads of partial information, like you demonstrated by suggesting A) I was scum and B) that I was scum with RE. That's part of the deal by agreeing to replace in.
Okay so let me express some regret for EL replacing out. I really appreciated that he was a replacement that was engaged, competent, and active - you really don't see those types of players nowadays, and him replacing out makes me kind of sad. I understand that he was combative but still.
EL if you're somehow still reading this game hit me up after the game ends, I can point you to other mafia sites you may have better times on.
---
Quote from Grapefruit »
So right now my hard game reset town block is me and Shadow.
My don't lynch today pile is RE, EL, and Terry.
Grape, assuming that I'm town, who do you think is the scum on the Shinichi wagon? That's the vote count I'm trying to base the game off of.
First off why the Shinichi wagon as opposed to the Wheat wagon? I find the Shin wagon really hard to trust in this moment because of how Shin's play was being widely and completely scum read and shaded for 1.5 days before he was lynched. Purely based on those two vote counts though my eye is drawn to you. You have a late but not hammer slot on Shin and are off in nowhere-land for Wheat. It sticks out to me. I like what you're doing today, so definitely don't want to hang the game on your lynch right now. But the vote counts make very interested in lynching you.
Quote from Grapefruit »
Proph, QH, and AG make up my lynch today preferences with QH and AG being way way scummier than Proph atm. I think the main way we lose this game is if Terry or EL is scum with RE. I don't think Terry and RE are ever aligned so we're probably okay on that front. And I'm swinging wildly back and forth on EL right now. Around when I claimed I had him as >rand to be scum but now I'm having to stop myself from putting him in my town block. So I'm torn.
Since EL was NK'd and flipped town, what's your view on the gamestate right now? If QH is scum, then who do you think his buddies are? Why do you think the scum killed EL?[/quote]
I think scum killed EL because they were very close to confirmed town. Both players in that slot had been widely town read and EL's frustration felt very genuine. NKA is pretty useless here though. Might be more helpful tomorrow. I don't have a likely scum buddy for QH based on the point you were pointing out about walls. There aren't a ton of interactions to see who his buddies are. I'm not going to lock myself into anything based on his flip right now. I think the most likely worlds are Me, Shadow, and Terry as town, but right now I can't make a scum team work with those assumptions. So I'm taking it a bit slowly.
I still like JT's 2190? I keep reading it over and over again and I am a fan of how he is trying to explain and run through his thought process, which scum don't normally do. This part in here feels especially townie to me:
Quote from JT »
Now it seems a lot less likely a fake claim coming from grape, but as I'm verbally diarrheaing here something starts tickling my brain. Also, bullet proof is a logical scum fake claim at this point, which is what I was hoping to prevent. I'm a bit worried about this because there was no reason for Grape to blow his wad right now. In fact, a player with no reason to claim that just comes out and claims something like this in MyLo is definitely a bit disconcerting. It's actually a gross misuse of the role (queue EL yelling his head off that I'm scum for even suggesting that his dear flavor-town-cleared bulletproof friend, Grape might be scum). I'm going to go back and look at reactions following the no kill with the new pieces in place.
I just really like the big window into his thought process there.
----
I agree on liking that post from JT, but I am fairly sure there will be one goon on the mafia team. It's probably you or QH, but I need to keep RE and RSJT in mind. I'm also wavering a bit on LnGrrrR because of this, balancing the setup is getting tricky. Then again I might just be letting myself get pocketed by him having granted me the shot.
Also, you don't put a BP in a 12 player game if scum doesn't have a strongman and Grape is alive, the night after claiming. I'm sure he is fake claiming scum. BP is overpowered in general, let alone in a 12 player game.
Wait, wasn't Terry the one who got all mad at the way EL was interacting with him? And then he responds like above? I replaced in to try and help out the game; telling me to read 45 pages like I don't have, oh, I don't know, a job and a family and life, is pretty rude.
The reason I gave Grape the shot was to at least prove my ability. I know my slot is the most likely right now for the game-ending mislynch, and I'm going to take pains to prevent it. But I'm pretty sure I can't just tell the wife to take care of my three kids because I have 7 hours of reading to do. Until I DO catch up, I'm going to interact.
Also, why the "fear" about me voting, when I haven't done so yet? Do you think I'm an idiot? Or are you just fearmongering me to push the mislynch?
No, I'm saying you should read the game because you're basing your reads of partial information, like you demonstrated by suggesting A) I was scum and B) that I was scum with RE. That's part of the deal by agreeing to replace in.
Fortunately we have about a week and can request an extra 72 hours. So while a reread would be ideal I'm happy just to get thoughts on the last 10 pages in the meantime.
And B) while unlikely you/RE isn't impossible. I think it's improbable to a high degree but not enough to rule it out.
I've been arguing with QH because he fixated on me and no one seems to want to go through the effort of going through his walls. I am a professional wall-checker* so that's why I've been breaking down and analyzing his walls so that other people could digest them.
* (+1 if you get this reference)
I don't. And unfortunately, there is nothing new from him to pan through.
Quote from RE »
Just check out his reads list. The people in his town pile he keeps claiming he's probably being pocketed - which is one way of saying he'll switch to any of them but doesn't want the repercussion of doing so. Also, he keeps narrowing down his suspects to include Terry, yet doesn't seem to want to doubt him.
Like I said earlier. Lylo is when we re-evaluate people. You can't just sit on your townreads the entire game and PoE the scum that way - if one scum is in your townreads, which is likely, then the game becomes lost.
I don't want to doubt Terry because he keeps making very townie posts that I have a hard time seeing him making as scum. But when I look at the votals he is in there along with Grape and shadow. Like, who is the scum on the Shinichi wagon?
Like I said, tone is super easy to fake. And you are reading him based on tone. What do you think of his reads? Do you agree or disagree that Grape is fakeclaiming? What do you make of his suggestion that we are scumbuddies? What do you make of him continuously misinterpreting my posts - accusing me of claiming EL and him are scumbuddies, of claiming Grape of being scum? Because that misinterpretation/putting words in someone else's mouth alone is a classic scum tactic.
Quote from RE »
I almost wish I planned this as a trap, but it was a lucky coincidence. Admitting to your own inactivity? You play the "reverse-psychology" method too much. Kinda like how you voted yourself in the second game I linked. Sigh.
I was just extremely interested when you said that inactivity is a way to catch me as scum but I was very inactive that entire week (because of Champs game) and you didn't really mention about it. Feels a little bit like mindset dissonance to me.
I don't know if I said this yet, but it's actually pretty difficult to calculate activity in long phased games. I only notice people's absences.
That has to be one of the weakest pieces of reasoning I've ever seen. How does me being inactive due to taking my final make you think I'm scum?
I'm so confused as to why you think I'm scum. Post 2362 does nearly nothing for me in terms of me trying to figure out your thought process and how you think.
It doesn't, which is why I'm reading into your posts, and not just mere inactivity.
Quote from RE »
This is a scum confession. This is scum saying, "Thank you for observing, aka critiquing, my performance as scum. I will use it for my later games as scum."
How? I was asking Grape questions because it feels like we haven't really worked together/interacted this game for the most part yet he kept scumreading me which came out of left field because he hasn't provided much reasoning as to why he thought I was scum. I wanted to hear his reasoning and for him to start engaging with me so I could remain more solidified on his alignment.
Oh, I see. Interesting choice of phrasing, then.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Also, you don't put a BP in a 12 player game if scum doesn't have a strongman and Grape is alive, the night after claiming. I'm sure he is fake claiming scum. BP is overpowered in general, let alone in a 12 player game.
Or scum left me alive so town like you would drink wine. Or you are scum and chose not to shoot me to start laying the seeds for this push. See isn't wine fun?
Yeah... I'll be here toDay as much as physically possible. Time to solve a good ol' LyLo like I just did in another game. No-Lynch got prematurely hammered yesterDay so I didn't really post. I basically got ninja'd by the phase change post, actually. Here I am though.
Gonna post my catch-up then hopefully get some sleep then hopefully write some reads on everyone shortly after and try to come up with a legit scumteam from them. I pretty much have to conclude from this gamestate that we have a fake claim on our hands but I'll get a focus on things before saying anything concerning this.
I hope people suspecting me from PoE are willing to give me a chance; putting me alone in PoE is like saying other players are inherently town. Unless you have an idea of who I'd be teamed up with, in which case your vote for me would be more fair. Ideally at this stage you want to find the most plausible team and then target the one you're more certain is scum, then as the Days and Nightkills go on, you keep reevaluating whether your team still makes sense. You can't just target the scummier player of all without looking at the great picture that is the mafia team.
Plus considering scum only need one mislynch to go through without having to worry about the repercussions, getting someone who is in the people's general PoE sounds like the way to go... Caution is required, scum tend to power through LyLos by identifying which townies have wrong reads (aka which to follow) and which townies have dangerous reads (aka who to go after).
So anyway, that's my rough mindset as I go head-on into a LyLo situation.
In my case I've got a pretty sexy scumteam in mind. Spoilers in case you didn't know: Proph is in there lol.
No, from a mechanical standpoint it just makes no sense. It doesn't matter how you slice my accusations of you, BP town, no mater who it is, is a fake claim in this game. You played an excellent game up until you claimed.
@terry, how do you know scum DOESN'T have a strongman shot? In fact, discussing the town's ppwer seems useless without a single scum flip. Also Terry, if you want me to start thinking you are town, don't do it by acting like you are 100% townfirmed. But, if you would like to tell me why you are so towny, go right ahead. I am sure you will point to all those scum lynches you led, right? Oh, wait...
@terry, how do you know scum DOESN'T have a strongman shot? In fact, discussing the town's ppwer seems useless without a single scum flip. Also Terry, if you want me to start thinking you are town, don't do it by acting like you are 100% townfirmed. But, if you would like to tell me why you are so towny, go right ahead. I am sure you will point to all those scum lynches you led, right? Oh, wait...
I've spent a lot of time telling people why I'm town this game because EL couldn't figure it out and I'm pretty burnt out of it. I would really appreciate if you just read the game for yourself.
Discussing town power structure is not useless when we have flipped town PRs. Do you think having a protective role in Rhand AND a BP is balanced?
It is definitely a bit weird, but I have seen strange (and bastardy) roles before. If there is a scum strongman, do you think that would even it out? Do you think GF is the scummiest player in the game?
I am catching up, btw. But I plan on participating as well throughout. If my slot had less heat on it, I might have the luxury of reading more slowly, but it looks like I will have to burn both ends at once.
Yeah... I'll be here toDay as much as physically possible. Time to solve a good ol' LyLo like I just did in another game. No-Lynch got prematurely hammered yesterDay so I didn't really post. I basically got ninja'd by the phase change post, actually. Here I am though.
Gonna post my catch-up then hopefully get some sleep then hopefully write some reads on everyone shortly after and try to come up with a legit scumteam from them. I pretty much have to conclude from this gamestate that we have a fake claim on our hands but I'll get a focus on things before saying anything concerning this.
I hope people suspecting me from PoE are willing to give me a chance; putting me alone in PoE is like saying other players are inherently town. Unless you have an idea of who I'd be teamed up with, in which case your vote for me would be more fair. Ideally at this stage you want to find the most plausible team and then target the one you're more certain is scum, then as the Days and Nightkills go on, you keep reevaluating whether your team still makes sense. You can't just target the scummier player of all without looking at the great picture that is the mafia team.
Plus considering scum only need one mislynch to go through without having to worry about the repercussions, getting someone who is in the people's general PoE sounds like the way to go... Caution is required, scum tend to power through LyLos by identifying which townies have wrong reads (aka which to follow) and which townies have dangerous reads (aka who to go after).
So anyway, that's my rough mindset as I go head-on into a LyLo situation.
In my case I've got a pretty sexy scumteam in mind. Spoilers in case you didn't know: Proph is in there lol.
Since you haven't caught up can you full claim when you come back. Role and flavor name. And I like where your head is at on Lylo theory. Just need to see the work now.
My first post of the game, several people read me as town for. I don't necessarily agree with that type of read, but they were right. I think it was Grape, Wheat Grinder (TOWN), Shadow (he said he liked it, not quite the same as saying town) and Shin (TOWN).
My Second big town tell was the trap I set for Vaimes, who claimed to get a not-vanilla result on Rhand the same night he was killed, but the order of operations as posted by Cantrip says that kills occur BEFORE investigations, meaning that Vaimes was lying, but apparently Cantrip had mistakenly sent Vaimes the results and addressed it in the main thread. The trap itself, should be a pretty obvious town tell that I am actively trying to hunt scum, but even if you were to argue that I was scum trying to abuse the rules to get a mislynch, my reaction to the trap (HERE) and subsequent grumbling about the mod error that nerfed it also should be a very significant town tell.
Besides a constant attempt at solving the game, I would also say if I were scum it would pretty awful for me to post this EOD scum analysis of Vaimes (HERE) and then kill him that night.
That's the quick and dirty version of why I'm town.
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Meta. Sorry, it's terrible. But it all fits. Read his scum games if you want. So many catch up posts, it hurts. But if that isn't enough, have this:
This is a scum confession. This is scum saying, "Thank you for observing, aka critiquing, my performance as scum. I will use it for my later games as scum."
Also, been dying to say this, in response to the bold: SCUM SLIP. You are acknowledging the fact that Proph is scum. To accuse me of bussing is to indirectly address scum!Proph. Don't even get how Proph's town read on me ties us together. He's townreading everyone except QH. So glad I didn't die last night because...
Dear god, your posts at the end of phase change yesterday are a mess. There is a level of misunderstanding and misinterpreting and misrepresenting someone can reach, and you went up and beyond. That is as scummy as it gets.
Or before me. I'm good either way.
Haven't all of us full claimed except for QH?
That requires me being town read though. Which at EoD yesterday didn't seem like a given.
Anyway I'm not going to say more till I hear from LnGrrrR, QH, and Shadow. Preferably Proph as well, but that can wait.
Catherine Martin, Town Vanilla
Are we related? I'm Senator Ruth Martin, Town Vanilla.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Yup, I'm your daughter.
EL if you're somehow still reading this game hit me up after the game ends, I can point you to other mafia sites you may have better times on.
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Grape, assuming that I'm town, who do you think is the scum on the Shinichi wagon? That's the vote count I'm trying to base the game off of.
Since EL was NK'd and flipped town, what's your view on the gamestate right now? If QH is scum, then who do you think his buddies are? Why do you think the scum killed EL?
I still like JT's 2190? I keep reading it over and over again and I am a fan of how he is trying to explain and run through his thought process, which scum don't normally do. This part in here feels especially townie to me:
I just really like the big window into his thought process there.
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@shadowlancerx - Do you have any thoughts/reactions/re-evaluation to the Shinichi town flip? You were pushing for his lynch so hard and you seemed so convinced that he was scum that it feels kind of strange that immediately after his flip, I don't really see any outburst of surprise or anything like that. I dunno.
Dude.
You completely avoiding taking hard stances Yesterday and you have zero reactions or re-evaluations to the Shinichi town flip. You literally just.. let the lynch happen, and I still don't understand your about-face on your stance on his lynch. Now that Wheat and Shin both flipped town, I really just think you're scum based off of PoE and behavior.
If you're town, this game is on you. Tell me, why are you a villager this game? What actions have you taken that have benefitted the town?
I'm 100% on board with full claims, we are in a true LyLo.
Last night I chatted with Terry, and I have some mulling over to do from our chat.
It's lylo. We need to re-evaluate in order to win this game, because there are three bad guys left and we need to lynch all of them in succession to win. It's not impossible, but it is very difficult, especially since we don't have any mafia flips yet. I still am feeling comfortable on my townreads but I am worried that I am sinking into the realm of confirmation bias. That's why I'm trying to iron out the gamestate and see if I can crack it open Today.
Please explain? Want to hear your thought process here. <<< never mind Grape got to it.
You're literally handwaving all of my posts by saying that. I know I haven't been the most active player this game, but I've been trying to make a concerted effort to solve it while I've been in the thread. I'm going to have to see more reasoning than that.
I've been arguing with QH because he fixated on me and no one seems to want to go through the effort of going through his walls. I am a professional wall-checker* so that's why I've been breaking down and analyzing his walls so that other people could digest them.
* (+1 if you get this reference)
Like I said earlier. Lylo is when we re-evaluate people. You can't just sit on your townreads the entire game and PoE the scum that way - if one scum is in your townreads, which is likely, then the game becomes lost.
I don't want to doubt Terry because he keeps making very townie posts that I have a hard time seeing him making as scum. But when I look at the votals he is in there along with Grape and shadow. Like, who is the scum on the Shinichi wagon?
I was just extremely interested when you said that inactivity is a way to catch me as scum but I was very inactive that entire week (because of Champs game) and you didn't really mention about it. Feels a little bit like mindset dissonance to me.
Also can you answer my question about the Shinichi town flip? I'm kind of paranoid about you since we haven't engaged super much other than the neighbor chat so I want some dialogue with you.
Also if the sleep tell is a thing then JT might just be town?
plz explain
JT's analysis about why he thinks I'm town due to the CFD attempt at EoD is good.
Big fan of how Grape is attempting to solve the game by rereading. Once I finish catching up I will have to do the same.
:rollseyes:
That has to be one of the weakest pieces of reasoning I've ever seen. How does me being inactive due to taking my final make you think I'm scum?
I'm so confused as to why you think I'm scum. Post 2362 does nearly nothing for me in terms of me trying to figure out your thought process and how you think.
How? I was asking Grape questions because it feels like we haven't really worked together/interacted this game for the most part yet he kept scumreading me which came out of left field because he hasn't provided much reasoning as to why he thought I was scum. I wanted to hear his reasoning and for him to start engaging with me so I could remain more solidified on his alignment.
Where are you at with the game right now? If you had to shoot scum or the game would end (basically the same situation we are in right now), who would you pick?
Summarizing would be great.
Will be posting pre-reread reads list as well as a list of votals in a bit, after I get my morning duties done.
What scum teams make sense? For instance, if I were to throw out a team of Proph, RE13, and Terry, what would you say?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I also have slight vibes based on your slot, but that doesn't help you at all LnGrrR.
@Proph I can confirm there was some Shin flip based debriefing/emotion in Shadow and my chat. I'll get into your content in a while, but can I ask where you are on RE? YesterDay you seemed pretty in the town camp, but you seem be walking that back toDay. Just went to see if this is reevaluation or a firm change in read?
Miggs, Psychopath
Town Vanilla
So if neither Shadow, night chatter, and AG, Vanilla Cop Giver Outer (both confirmed roles) are town, then the town is underpowered with a bodyguard (in Grapes own opinion) and a bulletproof.
The reason I gave Grape the shot was to at least prove my ability. I know my slot is the most likely right now for the game-ending mislynch, and I'm going to take pains to prevent it. But I'm pretty sure I can't just tell the wife to take care of my three kids because I have 7 hours of reading to do. Until I DO catch up, I'm going to interact.
Also, why the "fear" about me voting, when I haven't done so yet? Do you think I'm an idiot? Or are you just fearmongering me to push the mislynch?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Yes, I believe that very firmly. Crier is close to vanilla in terms of power level imo, and body guard is among the weakest mess with the NK roles. BP on the otherhand is very powerful but that would leave town without any investigative role at all. And why I was fishing for opinions on Shadow's chat's as a quasi investigative role.
And we have very different ideas on game balance if you think BP, BG, crier and vanilla's is over powered compared to Neighborizor, vanilla cop giver, and X (presumably goon). Also that set up just doesn't make any sort of sense to me so I'm pretty sure LnGrrrR and Shadow aren't scum together at least.
Grapefruit: Clarice Starling: BP
RSJT: Miggs, Psychopath: Town Vanilla
Shadow: Frederick Chilton, Town Shrink (neighborizor)
RE: Catherine Martin, Town Vanilla
Proph: Senator Ruth Martin, Town Vanilla.
LnGrrrR: Hannibal Lector, Town Psycho-consultant (vanilla cop shot granter)
QH: ???
First off why the Shinichi wagon as opposed to the Wheat wagon? I find the Shin wagon really hard to trust in this moment because of how Shin's play was being widely and completely scum read and shaded for 1.5 days before he was lynched. Purely based on those two vote counts though my eye is drawn to you. You have a late but not hammer slot on Shin and are off in nowhere-land for Wheat. It sticks out to me. I like what you're doing today, so definitely don't want to hang the game on your lynch right now. But the vote counts make very interested in lynching you.
Since EL was NK'd and flipped town, what's your view on the gamestate right now? If QH is scum, then who do you think his buddies are? Why do you think the scum killed EL?[/quote]
I think scum killed EL because they were very close to confirmed town. Both players in that slot had been widely town read and EL's frustration felt very genuine. NKA is pretty useless here though. Might be more helpful tomorrow. I don't have a likely scum buddy for QH based on the point you were pointing out about walls. There aren't a ton of interactions to see who his buddies are. I'm not going to lock myself into anything based on his flip right now. I think the most likely worlds are Me, Shadow, and Terry as town, but right now I can't make a scum team work with those assumptions. So I'm taking it a bit slowly.
I agree on liking that post from JT, but I am fairly sure there will be one goon on the mafia team. It's probably you or QH, but I need to keep RE and RSJT in mind. I'm also wavering a bit on LnGrrrR because of this, balancing the setup is getting tricky. Then again I might just be letting myself get pocketed by him having granted me the shot.
Fortunately we have about a week and can request an extra 72 hours. So while a reread would be ideal I'm happy just to get thoughts on the last 10 pages in the meantime.
And B) while unlikely you/RE isn't impossible. I think it's improbable to a high degree but not enough to rule it out.
I don't. And unfortunately, there is nothing new from him to pan through.
Like I said, tone is super easy to fake. And you are reading him based on tone. What do you think of his reads? Do you agree or disagree that Grape is fakeclaiming? What do you make of his suggestion that we are scumbuddies? What do you make of him continuously misinterpreting my posts - accusing me of claiming EL and him are scumbuddies, of claiming Grape of being scum? Because that misinterpretation/putting words in someone else's mouth alone is a classic scum tactic.
I don't know if I said this yet, but it's actually pretty difficult to calculate activity in long phased games. I only notice people's absences.
It doesn't, which is why I'm reading into your posts, and not just mere inactivity.
Oh, I see. Interesting choice of phrasing, then.
Or scum left me alive so town like you would drink wine. Or you are scum and chose not to shoot me to start laying the seeds for this push. See isn't wine fun?
Gonna post my catch-up then hopefully get some sleep then hopefully write some reads on everyone shortly after and try to come up with a legit scumteam from them. I pretty much have to conclude from this gamestate that we have a fake claim on our hands but I'll get a focus on things before saying anything concerning this.
I hope people suspecting me from PoE are willing to give me a chance; putting me alone in PoE is like saying other players are inherently town. Unless you have an idea of who I'd be teamed up with, in which case your vote for me would be more fair. Ideally at this stage you want to find the most plausible team and then target the one you're more certain is scum, then as the Days and Nightkills go on, you keep reevaluating whether your team still makes sense. You can't just target the scummier player of all without looking at the great picture that is the mafia team.
Plus considering scum only need one mislynch to go through without having to worry about the repercussions, getting someone who is in the people's general PoE sounds like the way to go... Caution is required, scum tend to power through LyLos by identifying which townies have wrong reads (aka which to follow) and which townies have dangerous reads (aka who to go after).
So anyway, that's my rough mindset as I go head-on into a LyLo situation.
In my case I've got a pretty sexy scumteam in mind. Spoilers in case you didn't know: Proph is in there lol.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Discussing town power structure is not useless when we have flipped town PRs. Do you think having a protective role in Rhand AND a BP is balanced?
I am catching up, btw. But I plan on participating as well throughout. If my slot had less heat on it, I might have the luxury of reading more slowly, but it looks like I will have to burn both ends at once.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Since you haven't caught up can you full claim when you come back. Role and flavor name. And I like where your head is at on Lylo theory. Just need to see the work now.
My first post of the game, several people read me as town for. I don't necessarily agree with that type of read, but they were right. I think it was Grape, Wheat Grinder (TOWN), Shadow (he said he liked it, not quite the same as saying town) and Shin (TOWN).
My Second big town tell was the trap I set for Vaimes, who claimed to get a not-vanilla result on Rhand the same night he was killed, but the order of operations as posted by Cantrip says that kills occur BEFORE investigations, meaning that Vaimes was lying, but apparently Cantrip had mistakenly sent Vaimes the results and addressed it in the main thread. The trap itself, should be a pretty obvious town tell that I am actively trying to hunt scum, but even if you were to argue that I was scum trying to abuse the rules to get a mislynch, my reaction to the trap (HERE) and subsequent grumbling about the mod error that nerfed it also should be a very significant town tell.
Besides a constant attempt at solving the game, I would also say if I were scum it would pretty awful for me to post this EOD scum analysis of Vaimes (HERE) and then kill him that night.
That's the quick and dirty version of why I'm town.