Also, @Grapefruit, w.r.t. Proph v QH it's not exactly about any "textual points" during their wall. For one thing, I don't really care about analyzing Proph's buddies, only his individual Towniness/scumminess: he made a point to state specifically that he likes bussing his allies as scum, which is an easy way to spread wine if he's scum and immediately makes buddy reads on him fairly useless to me. (Knowing his meta isn't the problem; him making a point of stating his meta is the problem.) But even if you wanna read into his alliances...Proph opening the day with a vote on QH and then never seeming like he was actually willing to choose a QH lynch over a Shinichi lynch at any later point during the day? That makes the walls against QH pretty much meaningless in terms of alliance-reads.
So if we Mislynch today we lose.
If we no Lynch today we go into Day 5 as 4t v. 3s, but with someone gone that most likely wouldn't have been the Lynch anyway and we are in LyLo, instead of MyLo.
If we Lynch scum today we go into Day 5 as 4t v. 2s, most likely with the same person gone that would have been gone with a no Lynch anyway and we are in MyLo again.
Hmmm... I guess there isn't as much difference as I thought there would be.
Also, I would be all in on the AG Lynch for [REASONS] following the Vaimes Town flip.
@QH: Do you have anything to say?
Yeah, [reasons] aren't going to cut it right now. Is it based on out of game stuff?
@EL Fair enough on that mix it is a bit confusing. What is the connection between AG and Shadow? Why does it have to be those two exactly? Also you're not scum reading me and I was all in on lynching Shinichi regardless of Terry's push. You were just about the only person who was completely opposed to that lynch yesterday and you didn't fight all that hard against it.
@Proph: Wanna talk about it being suspicious that Town-firmed people would be alive this long? Then what's up with Grapefruit and Terry both being alive into MyLo, when QH is the toughest lynch in the game because he's so widely Town-read, and Terry is the second toughest lynch in the game because he's being magically Town-read for scum-tells?
Also, @Grapefruit, w.r.t. Proph v QH it's not exactly about any "textual points" during their wall. For one thing, I don't really care about analyzing Proph's buddies, only his individual Towniness/scumminess
That's weird, didn't you spend Day 2 trying to Lynch Shin AND Wheat because you were sure they were scum buddies?
I would much rather no lynch Today and hash it out Tomorrow.
No lynch is the best mechanical play for us because it protects us from deep scum and gives us an extra body to work with in order to figure out the game.
Tammy was the last scum who was cop checked as town because she was a one-shot godfather (WTH Iso). The last town were vanilla. They didn't no lynch, but they should have because Tammy being alive and being cop checked as town was VERY suspicious.
The problem with this analogy is that A: We don't have a cop. B: Two players that should be obvious town are having a pissing match so there is no possibility of either of us being killed and/or being suspicious for being alive.
Also, I would be all in on the AG Lynch for [REASONS] following the Vaimes Town flip.
@QH: Do you have anything to say?
Yeah, [reasons] aren't going to cut it right now. Is it based on out of game stuff?
Not really, it's based on how my trap was handled. Regardless I still see no reason for AG's ability to be town, I can't see why he would lurk out the end of the day yesterday, but still send in his night actions in the appropriate window. Frankly, I haven't seen anything town from him.
@Proph: Wanna talk about it being suspicious that Town-firmed people would be alive this long? Then what's up with Grapefruit and Terry both being alive into MyLo, when QH is the toughest lynch in the game because he's so widely Town-read, and Terry is the second toughest lynch in the game because he's being magically Town-read for scum-tells?
Wait, is there a sarcasm tag missing here? How is QH "so widely Town-Read"? He was the opposing Lynch option to Town-Shin yesterday and lurked out at the end of the day phase. I'm alive because they failed to kill me the other night and you decided to start a fight with me. I've determined that you are over-confident town, so we have two strong willed townies fighting each other. Why in any one's right mind would they kill either of us.
@Proph: Wanna talk about it being suspicious that Town-firmed people would be alive this long? Then what's up with Grapefruit and Terry both being alive into MyLo, when QH is the toughest lynch in the game because he's so widely Town-read, and Terry is the second toughest lynch in the game because he's being magically Town-read for scum-tells?
Ehhhh, I'm lazy and working on walls sucks. I think I can shed some light on why I'm alive and some more of why I'm confident Shadow wasn't trying to clear the way to kill Vaimes.
I'm Bulletproof. I'm Clarice Starling and it's flavored as plot armor (which is great, props to Cantrip). I am almost certain that I was the NK target N2 as a result. And since Shadow would know I was the target as scum he wouldn't be trying to have me distract attention away to Vaimes to clear the way. As a note this also explains why I thought the AG kill theory being completely ridiculous. I am just assuming I tanked the bullet rather than it being a weird kill town but leave scum alive thing.
Anyway with all of this in tow, I am getting super scummy vibes off of EL today. He is doing some serious FUD'ing and it's skeeving me out. Also now that Vaimes is confirmed town Mindreaver's D1 is slightly less townie in hindsight. A lot of his best moments were applying good pressure on Vaimes.
didn't feel like deleting this post, since I might as well explain what my previous views were, but note that there are things here which are likely incorrect what with GF's reveal just now
What is the connection between AG and Shadow? Why does it have to be those two exactly?
It could also be Terry+AG+you, but I don't see an AG+Grapefruit team at all. I'll be extremely impressed with your scum game if you're scum with AG; hats off to you in that case.
So, say the team is not Terry+AG+you. Then, if AG is scum, either you or Terry would be not-scum. You two are the hardest lynches in the game to push right now (as evidenced by the fact that yesterDay you all lynched the one person I was saying on Day Two would likely be semi-Town-cleared by Wheat's Town-flip, while completely poo-poo-ing the idea that I can literally count on one hand the number of posts from Terry all game that indicate any degree of Towniness).
If that's the case, one of you should've been the kill, not Vaimes. Vaimes was totally mislynchable, and that would've been game over. AG as scum, however, would want Vaimes or shadow to die in order to prove his ability, cuz chances were good he'd otherwise be the next lynch the way this was going.
The problem is, if AG makes himself look Townier via a Vaimes kill, he inherently makes his non-Vaimes gift recipients look Townier as well. And he's chosen shadow twice now. Scum-AG is thus walling himself away from a shadow mislynch by killing Vaimes, and shadow would've been super easy toDay given his case against Shinichi. Scum-AG making scum-buddy shadow look Townier, however, makes sense.
TL;DR: The Vaimes flip has pretty much created a situation in which AG, despite arguably looking Townier than he did yesterDay, now always gets lynched before shadow. If AG is scum and shadow is Town, AG obviously doesn't want to create that situation by killing Vaimes, and would instead have killed you (practically un-lynchable) or shadow (makes AG look good when one of his gift recipients flips Town, as Vaimes did). Therefore, I'm pretty sure that either they're scum together or AG isn't scum.
However, I don't think that they're scum together (partly since I'm independently Town-reading shadow, partly because of the current situation with shadow Couch-Chatting with you and telling you that AG gave him the shot), so I like AG post-Vaimes-flip.
Also you're not scum reading me and I was all in on lynching Shinichi regardless of Terry's push.
Who said I'm scum-reading based on the Shinichi push? If that were my primary criterion, I'd be all on shadow's ass cuz he's been tunneled on Shinichi since approximately forever -- and his reasoning about "shared ability space = opposite alignments" was, as I specifically warned him, likely to make him look really bad once Shinichi flipped Town. Clearly that's not my main concern. Shinichi was scummy, and I don't begrudge people voting him for that reason; it's just annoying that the Wheat Town-flip didn't factor into people's minds despite that being a huge part of why I wanted a Wheat flip in the first place. That made the Wheat info-flip totally wasted and has brought us into MyLo dangerously quickly, at a gamestate in which I'm pretty sure I can't get y'all to lynch Terry instead of No-Lynching. And then he kills me toNight and is forgotten toMorrow and the game is over.
Given the flavor of this game, Clarice is the one flavor claim which is guaranteed to be Town, even if the others are shuffled. (And Shinichi's role+flavor combo makes it highly unlikely that the other flavor+role combos are shuffled anyway.) Unless there's a counter-claim, GF as Clarice is Town-firmed. And, let's be honest, anyone who counter-claims GF should be insta-lynched. Him being bulletproof makes perfect sense in this gamestate. (And vastly more than Terry's hilariously scummy repeated claims that he was the one who was shot and saved.)
This also does mostly remove any worries I had about AG's ability having a side effect. Grapefruit made the most sense as the kill target that Night.
I'm kind of flabbergasted that you'd think my theorizing is scummy when you know you've had information none of us did all this time, but whatever.
I do think this reveal makes a No Lynch even less useful, however. For one thing, it pretty much guarantees we don't have any investigative roles left; I think that's it for all the Town Powers now. (And I'll remind you all again that Terry soft-claimed being non-Vanilla, presumably in an effort to avoid suspicion if targeted by AG's gift, so. Yeah.) Furthermore, it's now pretty much a guarantee that we end up with a no-lynch-no-kill sequence in which any Mafia Power Roles (like Terry) can possibly do something, because they'll just shoot you toNight and test if your plot armor is 1-shot or permanent.
Out of curiosity, GF, are you lynch-proof too or did Cantrip just expect (rightfully) that you'd never be lynched with that flavor claim? The flavor has all been written from Clarice's PoV, so her being dead while the game continues would kind of ruin everything.
Out of curiosity, GF, are you lynch-proof too or did Cantrip just expect (rightfully) that you'd never be lynched with that flavor claim? The flavor has all been written from Clarice's PoV, so her being dead while the game continues would kind of ruin everything.
Definitely not lynch proof. Just NK proof.
And fair point on you not having the info. Just still think that's a weird place to jump. Not scummy just quite the jump.
And flavor itself isn't clearing. It's my explaining of the missing NK that's clearing me RE.
But even if you wanna read into his alliances...Proph opening the day with a vote on QH and then never seeming like he was actually willing to choose a QH lynch over a Shinichi lynch at any later point during the day? That makes the walls against QH pretty much meaningless in terms of alliance-reads.
I'm not picky about to deciding who to lynch; as long I think they are scum, I will support their lynch.
Shinichi had much more support than QH and I repeatedly asked other players what their opinions on QH was.
Basically EL read this right here:
Quote from ZDS »
Personally I prefer lynching scum. In many cases, lynching town will hurt more than the information from the wagon will help. If the lynchee was scummy enough, and the scum aren't abysmal at finding good arguments against scummy townies, then wagon analysis will be of very limited use. This is why active "scumhunting" is such a great tactic as scum: even if you are wrong all the time, if your attacks look valid nobody will blame you for it (in fact you will even gain town cred).
I disagree the town ever has to "talk itself in circles for three months", although I admit it is a too common phenomenon. Players in general should learn not to be picky about who they lynch (as long as there is a decent change s/he is scum then it doesn't matter if s/he's "the scummiest" or only "the second scummiest"), and should learn to shut up once they have agreed on who to lynch (starting a new wagon when the Day's lynch has been decided is the worst thing that can happen).
They should however push against any wagon on a player they believe to be town (which is significantly different from "are not 100% sure is scum").
Good: "I think Player X is scum, let's lynch him!"
Good: "I think Player Y is scummier, but the case on Player X is good and there is more support for lynching Player X. Let's lynch him!"
Good: "I think Player X is town, let's not lynch him!"
Bad: "I think Player Y is scummier, so even though there is much less momentum against him, let's lynch him instead!"
Bad: "I have a hunch Player X is town, even though I agree the case is good. Let's not lynch him!"
Bad: "I think Player X is scum and should be lynched, but first, here's a case against Player Y."
^ basically the reason why I moved onto Shinichi Yesterday instead of sticking with QH
We are not clearing Grapefruit based on his flavor. If you want to play that game, everyone who hasn't done so already should claim their flavor.
You're doing what Terry did in #2158, taking my statement about one example and claiming it should apply to everything, even when I specifically said it shouldn't. I stated that Clarice was the one exception, which should be evident if you've read any of Cantrip's excellent flavor posts thus far.
I expect that sort of thing from Terry, because he hasn't even pretended to show intellectual honesty for Days now. But I expect better from you, RE. :'(
Regardless, if you care for some reason, I'm Buffalo Bill. It's not a relevant flavor in my case.
@Proph: Wanna talk about it being suspicious that Town-firmed people would be alive this long? Then what's up with Grapefruit and Terry both being alive into MyLo, when QH is the toughest lynch in the game because he's so widely Town-read, and Terry is the second toughest lynch in the game because he's being magically Town-read for scum-tells?
What is the town-firmed people we have in this game?
I'm not sure why Grapefruit and Terry are still alive. Why is QH so widely town read?
And I told you before, we can talk about Terry and come to a agreement/compromise on reads because I think it's strange that you're reading the gamestate differently than I am.
The problem with this analogy is that A: We don't have a cop. B: Two players that should be obvious town are having a pissing match so there is no possibility of either of us being killed and/or being suspicious for being alive.
But still, I think that it's always the correct play to no lynch in this sort of situation. Getting another dead town body helps us make the right/best decision in lylo.
Quote from Grapefruit »
I'm Bulletproof. I'm Clarice Starling and it's flavored as plot armor (which is great, props to Cantrip). I am almost certain that I was the NK target N2 as a result. And since Shadow would know I was the target as scum he wouldn't be trying to have me distract attention away to Vaimes to clear the way. As a note this also explains why I thought the AG kill theory being completely ridiculous. I am just assuming I tanked the bullet rather than it being a weird kill town but leave scum alive thing.
Ah, that makes a lot of sense as to where the N2 kill went. OK. So the scum on the Shinichi lynch is still probably just [shadow/JT]?
Quote from Grapefruit »
Anyway with all of this in tow, I am getting super scummy vibes off of EL today. He is doing some serious FUD'ing and it's skeeving me out. Also now that Vaimes is confirmed town Mindreaver's D1 is slightly less townie in hindsight. A lot of his best moments were applying good pressure on Vaimes.
We are not clearing Grapefruit based on his flavor. If you want to play that game, everyone who hasn't done so already should claim their flavor.
You're doing what Terry did in #2158, taking my statement about one example and claiming it should apply to everything, even when I specifically said it shouldn't. I stated that Clarice was the one exception, which should be evident if you've read any of Cantrip's excellent flavor posts thus far.
I expect that sort of thing from Terry, because he hasn't even pretended to show intellectual honesty for Days now. But I expect better from you, RE. :'(
Regardless, if you care for some reason, I'm Buffalo Bill. It's not a relevant flavor in my case.
I'm cracking up. I have no reason to believe that is the case. Either way, I have no intention of lynching someone today, unless AG is on the verge of being modkilled.
Being vanilla has never bothered me in the past, but there is too much reliance on uncomfirmable information in this game. I have to treat this as the worst possible situation - which is scum (you, grapefruit, ???) planned this so you can mislynch and take the win.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
The "support" for a Shinichi lynch boiled down to:
1) Terry repeatedly lying that I was "getting what I wanted by lynching both Shinichi and WG", even though I had very explicitly stated multiple times that I'd only be interested in lynching the second if the first flipped scum, regardless of order
2) shadow having been tunneled on him for ages, in large part due to shared ability space, which is a weak reason and one that should be backfiring hard right now if I didn't have solid other reasons to Town-read him
3) everyone else, like you, going "well there's widespread agreement on a Shinichi lynch so let's lynch him", creating real agreement out of imagined agreement, and ignoring the fact that when everyone (except for one person who's obv-Town anyway) agrees on a lynch, chances are high that person is not scum
So the scum on the Shinichi lynch is still probably just [shadow/JT]?
And it should be obvious which of those two is vastly more lynch-worthy, right? I don't understand why this is still a tough decision for everyone at this point.
spreading Fear/Uncertainty/Doubt...dunno where he's getting that when the only thing that's changed about my views since yesterDay is that I'm less inclined to lynch a couple people (AG by a lot, shadow by a little but I was already Town-reading him)
@RE I want to clearly say it again. Flavor should have nothing to do with clearing me. There wasn't a kill N2. I am bulletproof. That's why you should think I'm town.
@RE I want to clearly say it again. Flavor should have nothing to do with clearing me. There wasn't a kill N2. I am bulletproof. That's why you should think I'm town.
Deathguard. Idk.
Once again, I'm left in the dark...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Deathguard. Idk.
Once again, I'm left in the dark...
As the person who initially suggested the idea that the Deathguard had a post-death protective ability*, I should note that, while it's certainly one possibility, it was not the option in which I believed most strongly. My suggestion of the Deathguard's power was just a way to ease the pressure on a Doctor to claim, since Terry was trying to urge a Doctor to claim and I didn't want him/her to be pressured into revealing. It also had the added benefit of making the Mafia think that our protective role was only a 1-shot, encouraging them to shoot the same person again, which would've made it more likely for our hypothetical Doctor to be able to save the same person twice in a row and really screw over the Mafia.
* Of course, Terry then tried to claim credit for the suggestion, hilariously. And obviously he loved that idea because then there'd never be a counter-claim to his completely unfounded allegation that he was the one who was attacked and saved. Now that there has been a decisive counter-claim to that, he's gone silent, trying to figure out how to proceed from here. Cute. Seriously, how is this even remotely a difficult lynch decision for y'all?
Given the flavor of this game, Clarice is the one flavor claim which is guaranteed to be Town, even if the others are shuffled. (And Shinichi's role+flavor combo makes it highly unlikely that the other flavor+role combos are shuffled anyway.)
WHAT!? Just no. I'm not sure which one was a crazier; that AG was town and his role killed people instead of investigating them and the mafia had no control over their night kill or that in a game where it has been specifically stated that the roles were randomized in regards to flavor, that we can town clear some based on their flavor.
@RE I want to clearly say it again. Flavor should have nothing to do with clearing me. There wasn't a kill N2. I am bulletproof. That's why you should think I'm town.
Deathguard. Idk.
Once again, I'm left in the dark...
Then make the case that I'm scum. Sitting here half heartedly hand wringing that I'm not clear despite my claim doesn't do you any good. Either accept it or find evidence against me. Which I'd rather you do so we can put this behind us.
@RE I want to clearly say it again. Flavor should have nothing to do with clearing me. There wasn't a kill N2. I am bulletproof. That's why you should think I'm town.
Deathguard. Idk.
Once again, I'm left in the dark...
Then make the case that I'm scum. Sitting here half heartedly hand wringing that I'm not clear despite my claim doesn't do you any good. Either accept it or find evidence against me. Which I'd rather you do so we can put this behind us.
I'm not buying this claim as bullet proof 100% to town clear Ville for you Grape. I'm just going to put that out on the table right now. I don't see any logical reason for it not to be true, but let explain something in response to EL.
@EL does this particular bit of insight change your opinion on Shadow at all? Do you now see why I think a Vaimes flip with Shadow having targeted him is mostly a clear on Shadow?
So right now my hard game reset town block is me and Shadow.
My don't lynch today pile is RE, EL, and Terry.
Proph, QH, and AG make up my lynch today preferences with QH and AG being way way scummier than Proph atm. I think the main way we lose this game is if Terry or EL is scum with RE. I don't think Terry and RE are ever aligned so we're probably okay on that front. And I'm swinging wildly back and forth on EL right now. Around when I claimed I had him as >rand to be scum but now I'm having to stop myself from putting him in my town block. So I'm torn.
I still think no lynch is by far our best option today.
Mod can I have a prod update on AG and QH? Are they close to in range or in range?
WHAT!? Just no. I'm not sure which one was a crazier; that AG was town and his role killed people instead of investigating them and the mafia had no control over their night kill or that in a game where it has been specifically stated that the roles were randomized in regards to flavor, that we can town clear some based on their flavor.
I've obviously been refraining from interaction with Terry because he just keeps lying through his teeth and/or making ***** up, so interaction with this obv-scum is useless. But even so, this right here is just too hilarious to pass up. What he's saying is blatantly false: it was very explicitly stated that characters were alignment-indicative and roles were assigned accordingly. And I wasn't even involved in that sign-up thread. Still, it should've been painfully obvious when "Death's Head Moth, Town Deathguard" and "Poodle, Town Yapper" flipped, but expecting scum to use actual facts to push their cases is of course too much to ask.
@EL does this particular bit of insight change your opinion on Shadow at all? Do you now see why I think a Vaimes flip with Shadow having targeted him is mostly a clear on Shadow?
First of all, I never needed to change my opinion on shadow; I've been Town-reading him since yesterDay, as I've said. Just cuz I disagreed with your particular reason for Town-reading him (due to information I lacked at the time) didn't mean I disagreed with the outcome.
You really need to explain this *****, cuz I don't understand how he could make it any more obvious that he's willing to misrepresent and lie about everything everyone says in order to push his narrative. He just...hasn't done anything Townie. Like. All game. Even the rare things which you guys keep pointing to as Town-tells are just scum-tells.
@RE I want to clearly say it again. Flavor should have nothing to do with clearing me. There wasn't a kill N2. I am bulletproof. That's why you should think I'm town.
Deathguard. Idk.
Once again, I'm left in the dark...
Then make the case that I'm scum. Sitting here half heartedly hand wringing that I'm not clear despite my claim doesn't do you any good. Either accept it or find evidence against me. Which I'd rather you do so we can put this behind us.
I'm not buying this claim as bullet proof 100% to town clear Ville for you Grape. I'm just going to put that out on the table right now. I don't see any logical reason for it not to be true, but let explain something in response to EL.
Try to understand this from my perspective. I know NOTHING. Except that AG's ability does exist, which hardly helps because he is not here.
I have no proof you are bulletproof, nor that shadow's role is legit. And I think it's impossible to say that these abilities haven't influenced the game somewhat.
Like I've said, I don't want to lynch today. But I have plenty of reason to be doubtful of everyone.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
@RE I want to clearly say it again. Flavor should have nothing to do with clearing me. There wasn't a kill N2. I am bulletproof. That's why you should think I'm town.
Deathguard. Idk.
Once again, I'm left in the dark...
Then make the case that I'm scum. Sitting here half heartedly hand wringing that I'm not clear despite my claim doesn't do you any good. Either accept it or find evidence against me. Which I'd rather you do so we can put this behind us.
I'm not buying this claim as bullet proof 100% to town clear Ville for you Grape. I'm just going to put that out on the table right now. I don't see any logical reason for it not to be true, but let explain something in response to EL.
Try to understand this from my perspective. I know NOTHING. Except that AG's ability does exist, which hardly helps because he is not here.
I have no proof you are bulletproof, nor that shadow's role is legit. And I think it's impossible to say that these abilities haven't influenced the game somewhat.
Like I've said, I don't want to lynch today. But I have plenty of reason to be doubtful of everyone.
Okay so if you don't believe in Shadow's ability then the scum team has to be exactly me Shadow and Proph. If it's not than either town is carrying a lie for scum or it's true.
With mine, you're allowed to be skeptical, especially since you never had the strongest town read on me, but you need to inform that skepticism. Unless scum has a strongman I'm going to be here till the final 3 and you really should inform that read.
@EL Terry is never scum with you. And probably never scum with RE. So if he's scum then there are still really good odds lynching into the pool I find more compelling to be scum. I will reread Terry's ISO but at this stage I just don't agree with your assessment at all. Reread pending.
One for sorrow,
Two for joy,
Three for a girl,
Four for a boy,
Five for silver,
Six for gold,
Seven for a secret,
Never to be told.
Eight for a wish,
Nine for a kiss,
Ten for a bird,
I will not miss.
Votecount 4.1 - With 8 alive, it's 5 to lynch.
No Lynch (3): Grapefruit21, RE1031, Prophylaxis
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (1): EternalLurker
Not Voting: AtheistGod, Quickhoodies, shadowlancerx, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
AtheistGod and Quickhoodies have approximately 24 hours before a prod would normally be called for.
Proph, QH, and AG make up my lynch today preferences with QH and AG being way way scummier than Proph atm.
QH is my second choice, so I think most of the Townies are in agreement on lynching him if it comes down to it. I'd really rather that happen toDay rather than toMorrow, though, at least if you're gonna keep Terry in your won't-lynch pile as you stated. If you'd get him out, I'd be a lot more open to a No Lynch, but as long as he's there then he can just kill me toNight and he'll have a free win cuz no one else will lynch him.
Despite RE being one of my hardest Town-reads early on, toDay has not been a good showing for her, unfortunately. I still agree with her being in the no-lynch pile, though.
Can any Townie give me a good reason as to why we should No Lynch instead of lynching QH today, since we're pretty much all in agreement that he should be lynched? There's no way scum kills him toNight since he and AG are by far the two most likely to be lynched toMorrow, which means delaying by a Day doesn't actually do anything for us.
Try to understand this from my perspective. I know NOTHING. Except that AG's ability does exist, which hardly helps because he is not here.
Yes, and that's standard for any Mafia game. The addition of abilities, especially when they paint a consistent story, should not be changing your views. If you were scum-reading Grapefruit before based on behavior, that'd be fine (though odd), but suddenly deciding you're no longer Town-reading him after he claims an ability that makes perfect sense for the gamestate is completely nonsensica.
And I'm swinging wildly back and forth on EL right now. Around when I claimed I had him as >rand to be scum but now I'm having to stop myself from putting him in my town block. So I'm torn.
GF, I need you to reconsider your beliefs about me over the last two Days with this in mind...Outside of my constantly pointing out how Terry keeps twisting posts and facts to push his narrative, why are you scum-reading me at all? Cuz it really just looks like you're doing yet another chain-read, where you're thinking I'm scum only because you're so weirdly determined that Terry is Town. If you have other reasons for scum-reading me, that's fine and we can discuss them, but so far that's the only vibe I've gotten from you with regard to why you're suspicious of me, and that's vastly insufficient.
EL, keeps talking about this soft claim that I've made, which I find very interesting because EL has been one of those players VERY interested in people's roles. His Lynch targets have all been town so far, but the way he is pushing the CoC limits against me and basically forced Wheat to rage quit makes me want to have a little bit of faith in him that he's misguided town and not scum with zero morals. So let's talk about my role.
He was right, I did leave some ambiguous comments that could have been taken as a soft claim, but at the time, when he brought it up I specifically clarified that I was not claiming a power role or a vanilla role. When I first started implying that I might have a role, it was when I noticed the Vanilla Town vs. Town Vanilla thing and starting saying that RE could probably be town for it. Obviously, by the time I decided to come out with that I realized it was dumb. Since I wanted to leave it open for interpretation, I continued to not confirm nor deny a power role because I was honestly hoping to get night killed. With no kill on Night 2, I kind of wanted to play off that and imply it a bit harder and about mid-day I noticed QH kind of alluding to wanting to claim a power role ("I'm not going to let this jump on me happen"), so I continued to imply. What I was wanting QH to think twice about was falsely claiming a protective role, bullet proof being the most likely. So besides the fact that I thought it would be useful data to ask people who they thought the Night Kill was supposed to be, I was also hoping to make a scum-QH think twice before fake claiming. As soon as the pressure dropped off him, he disappeared, probably relieved that he didn't have to fake claim.
Now it seems a lot less likely a fake claim coming from grape, but as I'm verbally diarrheaing here something starts tickling my brain. Also, bullet proof is a logical scum fake claim at this point, which is what I was hoping to prevent. I'm a bit worried about this because there was no reason for Grape to blow his wad right now. In fact, a player with no reason to claim that just comes out and claims something like this in MyLo is definitely a bit disconcerting. It's actually a gross misuse of the role (queue EL yelling his head off that I'm scum for even suggesting that his dear flavor-town-cleared bulletproof friend, Grape might be scum). I'm going to go back and look at reactions following the no kill with the new pieces in place.
WHAT!? Just no. I'm not sure which one was a crazier; that AG was town and his role killed people instead of investigating them and the mafia had no control over their night kill or that in a game where it has been specifically stated that the roles were randomized in regards to flavor, that we can town clear some based on their flavor.
I've obviously been refraining from interaction with Terry because he just keeps lying through his teeth and/or making ***** up, so interaction with this obv-scum is useless. But even so, this right here is just too hilarious to pass up. What he's saying is blatantly false: it was very explicitly stated that characters were alignment-indicative and roles were assigned accordingly. And I wasn't even involved in that sign-up thread. Still, it should've been painfully obvious when "Death's Head Moth, Town Deathguard" and "Poodle, Town Yapper" flipped, but expecting scum to use actual facts to push their cases is of course too much to ask.
@EL does this particular bit of insight change your opinion on Shadow at all? Do you now see why I think a Vaimes flip with Shadow having targeted him is mostly a clear on Shadow?
First of all, I never needed to change my opinion on shadow; I've been Town-reading him since yesterDay, as I've said. Just cuz I disagreed with your particular reason for Town-reading him (due to information I lacked at the time) didn't mean I disagreed with the outcome.
You really need to explain this *****, cuz I don't understand how he could make it any more obvious that he's willing to misrepresent and lie about everything everyone says in order to push his narrative. He just...hasn't done anything Townie. Like. All game. Even the rare things which you guys keep pointing to as Town-tells are just scum-tells.
Just so wrong... DEEP BREATH. Here is what Cantrip wrote in the sign up post about flavor:
"This is a mildly flavorful game that focuses on behavior. The list of characters (without roles) was randomized by alignment, then roles were assigned accordingly."
This implies that the flavor was assigned before the roles. Stop misrepping everything I say and calling me a liar. I'm so done with you.
Proph, QH, and AG make up my lynch today preferences with QH and AG being way way scummier than Proph atm.
QH is my second choice, so I think most of the Townies are in agreement on lynching him if it comes down to it. I'd really rather that happen toDay rather than toMorrow, though, at least if you're gonna keep Terry in your won't-lynch pile as you stated. If you'd get him out, I'd be a lot more open to a No Lynch, but as long as he's there then he can just kill me toNight and he'll have a free win cuz no one else will lynch him.
You will never be killed because you are wrong about every person you want to Lynch and you're a pain in my side and I'm town. As long as you keep this crap up, you might as well be bulletproof too.
Despite RE being one of my hardest Town-reads early on, toDay has not been a good showing for her, unfortunately. I still agree with her being in the no-lynch pile, though.
Can any Townie give me a good reason as to why we should No Lynch instead of lynching QH today, since we're pretty much all in agreement that he should be lynched? There's no way scum kills him toNight since he and AG are by far the two most likely to be lynched toMorrow, which means delaying by a Day doesn't actually do anything for us.
But if Shadow is scum there I think they leave Vaimes alive and push him as the game winning mislynch for toMorrow (since Shadow locked himself in as no lynch today) and shoot Terry or EL instead. I don't know if scum shadow wastes all the effort having me case Vaimes when I will absolutely still reevaluate and look at Shadow if we're final 3. Very confident in not lynching him before we have a scum flip. If he's in a final 3, then by all means take a look, but not till then.
Yeah I did some urging, Shadow had no interest in lynching AG at and I pushed there and on QH and Proph.
Re who do you think is most likely to be scum here? What did you look at overnight?
Not very much, just regretting that my day 1 read of Shinichi was better than the days that followed.
For the record, I was bluffing about QH. I just wanted the day to be over.
Also, the fact that AG hasn't been here makes me wonder if he even gave out a shot last night (or the phase before, more accurately). But Vaimes dying at least confirms his ability.
Proph needs more pressure, that is for sure. I dearly hope AG is scum.
Conspiracy theory: You, shadow, and Proph are scum. I want need to know why shadow didn't choose someone new.
Also, contradiction alert on EL: He's good town-clearing Clarice based on her flavor, but not scum-locking AG, who claimed the antagonist of the whole story, Hannibal Lector.
Shadow targeted Grape for Night Chat (Day 1)
AG targeted Vaimes for Vanilla Cop (Day 1)
Vaimes targeted Rhand (Night 1)
Rhand is not vanilla
Rhand is killed by mafia (Night 1)
Shadow targeted Proph for Night Chat (Day 2)
AG targeted Shadow for Vanilla Cop (Day 2)
Shadow investigated Proph (Night 2)
Proph is Vanilla
No one is killed by Mafia supposedly because Grape is BP (Night 2)
Shadow targeted Grape for Night Chat (Day 3)
AG targeted Shadow for Vanilla Cop (Day 3)
Vaimes is killed by Mafia (Night 3)
Vaimes is targeted by Shadow (Night 3)
Vaimes is Vanilla
There is absolutely no good reason not to no lynch here. I will not entertain any push against doing so.
Grapefruit is 100% lock town, him being bulletproof is just icing on top of that, like I could not be more pleased in him rolling that, especially since it means scum now have to shoot into the Poe.
I will not be discussing in any form why he is lock town, you're going to have to trust me, but seriously don't ask.
I picked him to chat with because yesterday I believed very strongly that one of us would be killed over anyone else (assuming the Shinichi scum flip), and wanted to make sure that both of our thoughts were represented in thread today. I cannot change targets after a hammer vote.
Lurker...you can scream it from the top of your lungs, but until you explain how scum!Terry plays out his attempted mechanical trap, and his requisite frustration that it didn't work, then your cries will not sway me. I recommend you go read Terry's other games onsite, mistborn and Avalon, (town and scum respectively) and tell me that he's as black and white scum to you afterward. Because right now I'm really leery that you could actually be scum making a play to keep as many people in the PoE as you can.
I confirm that I did in fact receive the vanilla cop checker again, and I did target Vaimes. And I [i]did get a result and it was vanilla[i]. So order of operation be darned I guess. I'm asking Cantrip.
The suggestion that AG's role somehow doubles as the night kill is ridiculous even before the bulletproof claim, like maybe in a specialty level game, maybe. But in a mini with regular roles that is just dumb.I just realized I made a whole list of things I won't do/tolerate, sorry to sound irritable, it's probably because I am irritable. I think we have a real shot at winning this game if whoever the real townies are showed up/stopped acting ridiculous. Because right now I feel like this game will be won or lost on whether AG/QH/EL are town or scum. If anyone one of you is town and doesn't step up (or calm down), then this game is on you.
I've been focusing on another game which is currently in LyLo. Phase ends and (if game is not over by then) night falls on 12:00 tomorrow so I'll be good to catch up here. Everyone's posting a lot of game-solving posts right now so I'm gonna have to try harder.
I still have some beef with Proph from the last Day which I still have to finish reading.
I've been focusing on another game which is currently in LyLo. Phase ends and (if game is not over by then) night falls on 12:00 tomorrow so I'll be good to catch up here. Everyone's posting a lot of game-solving posts right now so I'm gonna have to try harder. Everyone's urging me to post >.< I feel super bad, I do.
I still have some beef with Proph from the last Day, which I still have to finish reading.
Still trying to avoid fruitless interactions with Terry, but since this particular tale keeps getting repeated and no one ever bats an eye no matter how often it happens...Here's yet another reminder to the Town that, no matter how much he claims otherwise, I stated from the very beginning that Shinichi would probably be Town if Wheat flipped Town. So him repeatedly trying to paint me as being wrong when I was 100% correct, and when he's the one that caused a lynch which totally wasted the information from our Wheat flip and sent us into MyLo, would be hilarious...if it weren't so disturbing that he just gets to keep saying things like this and constantly get magically Town-read for it.
I will directly interact for this part, though, because I'm sick of these consistent rules-exploitation attempts.
he is pushing the CoC limits against me and basically forced Wheat to rage quit
You directly called Shinichi a terrible player. Whining about me calling you out for your constant intellectual dishonesty -- which isn't a "personal attack" like your statement to Shinichi was, just a note that your behavior is quite consistent with standard scum tactics -- is ridiculously hypocritical and a clear attempt to use the rules to shield yourself from accusation.
Furthermore, the Wheat issue was related to a different game, as he himself stated (and as I'll be perfectly happy to explain in more detail after the relevant game is over, since discussing other ongoing games is against the rules). But your millionth angle-shoot attempt is, yet again, noted.
If you're going to act like scum, then I'm going to call you scum.
If you're going to be ridiculously ******* blatant about lying and twisting facts -- as you just did in #2158, fr'ex, where you quoted everything EXCEPT my explanation about how Proph was different from other examples, then tried to call me out on a non-Proph example -- then I'm going to call you out for lying and twisting facts.
And if you're gonna hide behind absurd claims that it's somehow rude for me to state that what you're doing is obvious scum behavior, then I'm going to continue to refrain from interacting directly with you, because that sort of interaction will be totally useless for Town.
If you're really Town, start acting your alignment and we won't have any more problems. Otherwise, just keep on doing what you're doing, cuz apparently it's working wonders on everyone else. But my vote isn't moving from you as long as you're acting like this, and it's probably far too late for you to fix things at this point anyway.
Lurker...you can scream it from the top of your lungs, but until you explain how scum!Terry plays out his attempted mechanical trap, and his requisite frustration that it didn't work, then your cries will not sway me.
Ah. Tone reads over content reads. So you're not ever going to be convinced. Got it.
I've discussed the content problems with that "trap" multiple times, such as here, but if you legitimately think that scum can't fake something as simple as frustration on a forum, I don't know what I'm supposed to tell you.
I'm really leery that you could actually be scum making a play to keep as many people in the PoE as you can.
Dude. My PoE right now is basically Terry+QH+Proph, with only a verrry slight AG worry after Grapefruit's correction. I probably have the smallest PoE here. It may not overlap as much with yours as you'd like, but telling me I'm keeping it open too widely is just...lol? QH seems to overlap with everyone else's PoEs, so I'm okay with lynching him before Terry if that makes you happy. Except for the alarm bells in my head telling me that a lynch everyone likes is probably Town just like Shinichi.
Ok, so it requires 3 passes and a living Merlin to win. The worst chances to pass quests are the first three. That means we need to be certain that there are no scum in the first three quests. If we even let 1 scum into quest 4 or 5, it's ok because they need two fails to kill the quest.
Here's the next thing. It's much harder for scum to win because they need to kill Merlin, IN ADDITION to nerving three quests. So absolutely in no circumstances should Merlin EVER claim... until two quests have succeeded and even at that point it needs to be with caution because Mordred can appear as town.
How long do we have until we decide who goes on Quest 1?
They win if they fail 3 quests OR kill Merlin.
So, in Terry's scum game, he opens up right away with the same detailed-yet-entirely-incorrect analysis of game-specific mechanics over which he keeps obsessing here.
Meanwhile, ISO-ing his Town game in Mistborn and he seems focused on tone reads, which is...lol, but not even remotely like what he's doing here. And he even acknowledges that's a PR-heavy game, yet in this one with plenty of Vanillas he's as mechanics-obsessed as he was in Avalon.
And then you say this, yet Terry constantly doing the same thing in this game ("we should analyze the lack of Night-kill and how it was definitely a shot on me since I'm obv-Town"; "my accuser and I are obv-Town") somehow doesn't bother you.
Man, I'm not even two Days/Quests into each thread and this is just locking the read down tight, while making me really worried that you're allegedly Town-reading him in spite of you having had this information. I'll keep reading when I have more time later, but I have no idea what you were trying to show me with this.
You've basically shown me that Terry's scum-game is to present fake content by focusing on mechanics, exactly as I've repeatedly described him doing here, while trying to claim that his doing the same here deserves a Town-read. Like...wut?
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If we no Lynch today we go into Day 5 as 4t v. 3s, but with someone gone that most likely wouldn't have been the Lynch anyway and we are in LyLo, instead of MyLo.
If we Lynch scum today we go into Day 5 as 4t v. 2s, most likely with the same person gone that would have been gone with a no Lynch anyway and we are in MyLo again.
Hmmm... I guess there isn't as much difference as I thought there would be.
Yeah, [reasons] aren't going to cut it right now. Is it based on out of game stuff?
@EL Fair enough on that mix it is a bit confusing. What is the connection between AG and Shadow? Why does it have to be those two exactly? Also you're not scum reading me and I was all in on lynching Shinichi regardless of Terry's push. You were just about the only person who was completely opposed to that lynch yesterday and you didn't fight all that hard against it.
Grapefruit is a better question to ask.
Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.... What even is that?
I'm Bulletproof. I'm Clarice Starling and it's flavored as plot armor (which is great, props to Cantrip). I am almost certain that I was the NK target N2 as a result. And since Shadow would know I was the target as scum he wouldn't be trying to have me distract attention away to Vaimes to clear the way. As a note this also explains why I thought the AG kill theory being completely ridiculous. I am just assuming I tanked the bullet rather than it being a weird kill town but leave scum alive thing.
Anyway with all of this in tow, I am getting super scummy vibes off of EL today. He is doing some serious FUD'ing and it's skeeving me out. Also now that Vaimes is confirmed town Mindreaver's D1 is slightly less townie in hindsight. A lot of his best moments were applying good pressure on Vaimes.
So, say the team is not Terry+AG+you. Then, if AG is scum, either you or Terry would be not-scum. You two are the hardest lynches in the game to push right now (as evidenced by the fact that yesterDay you all lynched the one person I was saying on Day Two would likely be semi-Town-cleared by Wheat's Town-flip, while completely poo-poo-ing the idea that I can literally count on one hand the number of posts from Terry all game that indicate any degree of Towniness).
If that's the case, one of you should've been the kill, not Vaimes. Vaimes was totally mislynchable, and that would've been game over. AG as scum, however, would want Vaimes or shadow to die in order to prove his ability, cuz chances were good he'd otherwise be the next lynch the way this was going.
The problem is, if AG makes himself look Townier via a Vaimes kill, he inherently makes his non-Vaimes gift recipients look Townier as well. And he's chosen shadow twice now. Scum-AG is thus walling himself away from a shadow mislynch by killing Vaimes, and shadow would've been super easy toDay given his case against Shinichi. Scum-AG making scum-buddy shadow look Townier, however, makes sense.
However, I don't think that they're scum together (partly since I'm independently Town-reading shadow, partly because of the current situation with shadow Couch-Chatting with you and telling you that AG gave him the shot), so I like AG post-Vaimes-flip. Who said I'm scum-reading based on the Shinichi push? If that were my primary criterion, I'd be all on shadow's ass cuz he's been tunneled on Shinichi since approximately forever -- and his reasoning about "shared ability space = opposite alignments" was, as I specifically warned him, likely to make him look really bad once Shinichi flipped Town. Clearly that's not my main concern. Shinichi was scummy, and I don't begrudge people voting him for that reason; it's just annoying that the Wheat Town-flip didn't factor into people's minds despite that being a huge part of why I wanted a Wheat flip in the first place. That made the Wheat info-flip totally wasted and has brought us into MyLo dangerously quickly, at a gamestate in which I'm pretty sure I can't get y'all to lynch Terry instead of No-Lynching. And then he kills me toNight and is forgotten toMorrow and the game is over.
This also does mostly remove any worries I had about AG's ability having a side effect. Grapefruit made the most sense as the kill target that Night.
I'm kind of flabbergasted that you'd think my theorizing is scummy when you know you've had information none of us did all this time, but whatever.
I do think this reveal makes a No Lynch even less useful, however. For one thing, it pretty much guarantees we don't have any investigative roles left; I think that's it for all the Town Powers now. (And I'll remind you all again that Terry soft-claimed being non-Vanilla, presumably in an effort to avoid suspicion if targeted by AG's gift, so. Yeah.) Furthermore, it's now pretty much a guarantee that we end up with a no-lynch-no-kill sequence in which any Mafia Power Roles (like Terry) can possibly do something, because they'll just shoot you toNight and test if your plot armor is 1-shot or permanent.
Definitely not lynch proof. Just NK proof.
And fair point on you not having the info. Just still think that's a weird place to jump. Not scummy just quite the jump.
And flavor itself isn't clearing. It's my explaining of the missing NK that's clearing me RE.
Shinichi had much more support than QH and I repeatedly asked other players what their opinions on QH was.
Basically EL read this right here:
^ basically the reason why I moved onto Shinichi Yesterday instead of sticking with QH
I expect that sort of thing from Terry, because he hasn't even pretended to show intellectual honesty for Days now. But I expect better from you, RE. :'(
Regardless, if you care for some reason, I'm Buffalo Bill. It's not a relevant flavor in my case.
I'm not sure why Grapefruit and Terry are still alive. Why is QH so widely town read?
And I told you before, we can talk about Terry and come to a agreement/compromise on reads because I think it's strange that you're reading the gamestate differently than I am.
Ah, that makes a lot of sense as to where the N2 kill went. OK. So the scum on the Shinichi lynch is still probably just [shadow/JT]?
FUDing?
I'm cracking up. I have no reason to believe that is the case. Either way, I have no intention of lynching someone today, unless AG is on the verge of being modkilled.
Being vanilla has never bothered me in the past, but there is too much reliance on uncomfirmable information in this game. I have to treat this as the worst possible situation - which is scum (you, grapefruit, ???) planned this so you can mislynch and take the win.
1) Terry repeatedly lying that I was "getting what I wanted by lynching both Shinichi and WG", even though I had very explicitly stated multiple times that I'd only be interested in lynching the second if the first flipped scum, regardless of order
2) shadow having been tunneled on him for ages, in large part due to shared ability space, which is a weak reason and one that should be backfiring hard right now if I didn't have solid other reasons to Town-read him
3) everyone else, like you, going "well there's widespread agreement on a Shinichi lynch so let's lynch him", creating real agreement out of imagined agreement, and ignoring the fact that when everyone (except for one person who's obv-Town anyway) agrees on a lynch, chances are high that person is not scum And it should be obvious which of those two is vastly more lynch-worthy, right? I don't understand why this is still a tough decision for everyone at this point. spreading Fear/Uncertainty/Doubt...dunno where he's getting that when the only thing that's changed about my views since yesterDay is that I'm less inclined to lynch a couple people (AG by a lot, shadow by a little but I was already Town-reading him)
Deathguard. Idk.
Once again, I'm left in the dark...
* Of course, Terry then tried to claim credit for the suggestion, hilariously. And obviously he loved that idea because then there'd never be a counter-claim to his completely unfounded allegation that he was the one who was attacked and saved. Now that there has been a decisive counter-claim to that, he's gone silent, trying to figure out how to proceed from here. Cute. Seriously, how is this even remotely a difficult lynch decision for y'all?
Then make the case that I'm scum. Sitting here half heartedly hand wringing that I'm not clear despite my claim doesn't do you any good. Either accept it or find evidence against me. Which I'd rather you do so we can put this behind us.
So right now my hard game reset town block is me and Shadow.
My don't lynch today pile is RE, EL, and Terry.
Proph, QH, and AG make up my lynch today preferences with QH and AG being way way scummier than Proph atm. I think the main way we lose this game is if Terry or EL is scum with RE. I don't think Terry and RE are ever aligned so we're probably okay on that front. And I'm swinging wildly back and forth on EL right now. Around when I claimed I had him as >rand to be scum but now I'm having to stop myself from putting him in my town block. So I'm torn.
I still think no lynch is by far our best option today.
Mod can I have a prod update on AG and QH? Are they close to in range or in range?
Try to understand this from my perspective. I know NOTHING. Except that AG's ability does exist, which hardly helps because he is not here.
I have no proof you are bulletproof, nor that shadow's role is legit. And I think it's impossible to say that these abilities haven't influenced the game somewhat.
Like I've said, I don't want to lynch today. But I have plenty of reason to be doubtful of everyone.
Okay so if you don't believe in Shadow's ability then the scum team has to be exactly me Shadow and Proph. If it's not than either town is carrying a lie for scum or it's true.
With mine, you're allowed to be skeptical, especially since you never had the strongest town read on me, but you need to inform that skepticism. Unless scum has a strongman I'm going to be here till the final 3 and you really should inform that read.
@EL Terry is never scum with you. And probably never scum with RE. So if he's scum then there are still really good odds lynching into the pool I find more compelling to be scum. I will reread Terry's ISO but at this stage I just don't agree with your assessment at all. Reread pending.
Two for joy,
Three for a girl,
Four for a boy,
Five for silver,
Six for gold,
Seven for a secret,
Never to be told.
Eight for a wish,
Nine for a kiss,
Ten for a bird,
I will not miss.
Votecount 4.1 - With 8 alive, it's 5 to lynch.
No Lynch (3): Grapefruit21, RE1031, Prophylaxis
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (1): EternalLurker
Not Voting: AtheistGod, Quickhoodies, shadowlancerx, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
AtheistGod and Quickhoodies have approximately 24 hours before a prod would normally be called for.
Please inform me of any errors.
Deadline is Friday, August 25th at 12pm MDT.
Despite RE being one of my hardest Town-reads early on, toDay has not been a good showing for her, unfortunately. I still agree with her being in the no-lynch pile, though.
Can any Townie give me a good reason as to why we should No Lynch instead of lynching QH today, since we're pretty much all in agreement that he should be lynched? There's no way scum kills him toNight since he and AG are by far the two most likely to be lynched toMorrow, which means delaying by a Day doesn't actually do anything for us. Yes, and that's standard for any Mafia game. The addition of abilities, especially when they paint a consistent story, should not be changing your views. If you were scum-reading Grapefruit before based on behavior, that'd be fine (though odd), but suddenly deciding you're no longer Town-reading him after he claims an ability that makes perfect sense for the gamestate is completely nonsensica. GF, I need you to reconsider your beliefs about me over the last two Days with this in mind...Outside of my constantly pointing out how Terry keeps twisting posts and facts to push his narrative, why are you scum-reading me at all? Cuz it really just looks like you're doing yet another chain-read, where you're thinking I'm scum only because you're so weirdly determined that Terry is Town. If you have other reasons for scum-reading me, that's fine and we can discuss them, but so far that's the only vibe I've gotten from you with regard to why you're suspicious of me, and that's vastly insufficient.
He was right, I did leave some ambiguous comments that could have been taken as a soft claim, but at the time, when he brought it up I specifically clarified that I was not claiming a power role or a vanilla role. When I first started implying that I might have a role, it was when I noticed the Vanilla Town vs. Town Vanilla thing and starting saying that RE could probably be town for it. Obviously, by the time I decided to come out with that I realized it was dumb. Since I wanted to leave it open for interpretation, I continued to not confirm nor deny a power role because I was honestly hoping to get night killed. With no kill on Night 2, I kind of wanted to play off that and imply it a bit harder and about mid-day I noticed QH kind of alluding to wanting to claim a power role ("I'm not going to let this jump on me happen"), so I continued to imply. What I was wanting QH to think twice about was falsely claiming a protective role, bullet proof being the most likely. So besides the fact that I thought it would be useful data to ask people who they thought the Night Kill was supposed to be, I was also hoping to make a scum-QH think twice before fake claiming. As soon as the pressure dropped off him, he disappeared, probably relieved that he didn't have to fake claim.
Now it seems a lot less likely a fake claim coming from grape, but as I'm verbally diarrheaing here something starts tickling my brain. Also, bullet proof is a logical scum fake claim at this point, which is what I was hoping to prevent. I'm a bit worried about this because there was no reason for Grape to blow his wad right now. In fact, a player with no reason to claim that just comes out and claims something like this in MyLo is definitely a bit disconcerting. It's actually a gross misuse of the role (queue EL yelling his head off that I'm scum for even suggesting that his dear flavor-town-cleared bulletproof friend, Grape might be scum). I'm going to go back and look at reactions following the no kill with the new pieces in place.
I'm still not confirming or denying a power role.
"This is a mildly flavorful game that focuses on behavior. The list of characters (without roles) was randomized by alignment, then roles were assigned accordingly."
This implies that the flavor was assigned before the roles. Stop misrepping everything I say and calling me a liar. I'm so done with you.
Why?
Because you're always wrong?
Shadow targeted Grape for Night Chat (Day 1)
AG targeted Vaimes for Vanilla Cop (Day 1)
Vaimes targeted Rhand (Night 1)
Rhand is not vanilla
Rhand is killed by mafia (Night 1)
Shadow targeted Proph for Night Chat (Day 2)
AG targeted Shadow for Vanilla Cop (Day 2)
Shadow investigated Proph (Night 2)
Proph is Vanilla
No one is killed by Mafia supposedly because Grape is BP (Night 2)
Shadow targeted Grape for Night Chat (Day 3)
AG targeted Shadow for Vanilla Cop (Day 3)
Vaimes is killed by Mafia (Night 3)
Vaimes is targeted by Shadow (Night 3)
Vaimes is Vanilla
There is absolutely no good reason not to no lynch here. I will not entertain any push against doing so.
Grapefruit is 100% lock town, him being bulletproof is just icing on top of that, like I could not be more pleased in him rolling that, especially since it means scum now have to shoot into the Poe.
I will not be discussing in any form why he is lock town, you're going to have to trust me, but seriously don't ask.
I picked him to chat with because yesterday I believed very strongly that one of us would be killed over anyone else (assuming the Shinichi scum flip), and wanted to make sure that both of our thoughts were represented in thread today. I cannot change targets after a hammer vote.
Lurker...you can scream it from the top of your lungs, but until you explain how scum!Terry plays out his attempted mechanical trap, and his requisite frustration that it didn't work, then your cries will not sway me. I recommend you go read Terry's other games onsite, mistborn and Avalon, (town and scum respectively) and tell me that he's as black and white scum to you afterward. Because right now I'm really leery that you could actually be scum making a play to keep as many people in the PoE as you can.
I confirm that I did in fact receive the vanilla cop checker again, and I did target Vaimes. And I [i]did get a result and it was vanilla[i]. So order of operation be darned I guess. I'm asking Cantrip.
The suggestion that AG's role somehow doubles as the night kill is ridiculous even before the bulletproof claim, like maybe in a specialty level game, maybe. But in a mini with regular roles that is just dumb.
I just realized I made a whole list of things I won't do/tolerate, sorry to sound irritable, it's probably because I am irritable. I think we have a real shot at winning this game if whoever the real townies are showed up/stopped acting ridiculous. Because right now I feel like this game will be won or lost on whether AG/QH/EL are town or scum. If anyone one of you is town and doesn't step up (or calm down), then this game is on you.
I still have some beef with Proph from the last Day which I still have to finish reading.
I still have some beef with Proph from the last Day, which I still have to finish reading.
Furthermore, the Wheat issue was related to a different game, as he himself stated (and as I'll be perfectly happy to explain in more detail after the relevant game is over, since discussing other ongoing games is against the rules). But your millionth angle-shoot attempt is, yet again, noted.
If you're going to act like scum, then I'm going to call you scum.
If you're going to be ridiculously ******* blatant about lying and twisting facts -- as you just did in #2158, fr'ex, where you quoted everything EXCEPT my explanation about how Proph was different from other examples, then tried to call me out on a non-Proph example -- then I'm going to call you out for lying and twisting facts.
And if you're gonna hide behind absurd claims that it's somehow rude for me to state that what you're doing is obvious scum behavior, then I'm going to continue to refrain from interacting directly with you, because that sort of interaction will be totally useless for Town.
If you're really Town, start acting your alignment and we won't have any more problems. Otherwise, just keep on doing what you're doing, cuz apparently it's working wonders on everyone else. But my vote isn't moving from you as long as you're acting like this, and it's probably far too late for you to fix things at this point anyway.
I've discussed the content problems with that "trap" multiple times, such as here, but if you legitimately think that scum can't fake something as simple as frustration on a forum, I don't know what I'm supposed to tell you. Dude. My PoE right now is basically Terry+QH+Proph, with only a verrry slight AG worry after Grapefruit's correction. I probably have the smallest PoE here. It may not overlap as much with yours as you'd like, but telling me I'm keeping it open too widely is just...lol? QH seems to overlap with everyone else's PoEs, so I'm okay with lynching him before Terry if that makes you happy. Except for the alarm bells in my head telling me that a lynch everyone likes is probably Town just like Shinichi.
And, yup, his next significant post is another incorrect wall of mechanical analysis. How on earth are you Town-reading his rampant mechanical obsession in this game even when you knew that this was his scum-meta? I am so ******* flabbergasted right now. o_O
Meanwhile, ISO-ing his Town game in Mistborn and he seems focused on tone reads, which is...lol, but not even remotely like what he's doing here. And he even acknowledges that's a PR-heavy game, yet in this one with plenty of Vanillas he's as mechanics-obsessed as he was in Avalon.
And then you say this, yet Terry constantly doing the same thing in this game ("we should analyze the lack of Night-kill and how it was definitely a shot on me since I'm obv-Town"; "my accuser and I are obv-Town") somehow doesn't bother you.
Man, I'm not even two Days/Quests into each thread and this is just locking the read down tight, while making me really worried that you're allegedly Town-reading him in spite of you having had this information. I'll keep reading when I have more time later, but I have no idea what you were trying to show me with this.