What? You're okay with "going with the flow" when we no lynched Day 1 and mislynched Day 2?
By "going with the flow," I mean looking at what people post and identifying what they say as townie/scummy when it strikes me so. It's how I've always played and it's how everyone plays. Going with the flow means to interpret things as they come, not sheeping people or acting like a dead log on a river lol.
He was clearly tilted and was more focused on proving EL wrong than actually caring about winning this game.
Doesn't change the fact that it was impossible for scum!Wheat to vote Shinichi anyway, so for you to townread him because he didn't move to the wagon "when it was readily available for him" (note: it wasn't) and discredit people who voted Wheat is wrong.
Because I saw Wheat's towniness and you guys didn't or are scum trying to push the mislynch? Why do you think defending Wheat comes from a mafia mindset, anyways? I genuinely believed that he was town and should not have been lynched.
That's fair enough, but what matters the most to me was that my read on Wheat was based on basically all of his posts, while you just spoke up and said "his frustration looks genuine and townie" by mostly only relying on the posts he had made after receiving a bunch of pressure.
...why are you starting from the conclusion that I'm scum, and then finding reasoning to explain that fact?
I guess that's what I'm doing? Not sure how that's wrong. I'm not painting you as scum, I'm looking for reasons that a scum!Proph world makes sense. And it does for me, which is why I'm keeping the suspicions alive.
You mentioned in the thread that you like to bus as scum. You mentioned it loud and clear for everyone to hear. That's what rubbed me the wrong way. You're aware of how you play as scum, and you're aware that others in here are aware too. So if you're scum, playing how you usually do is much more risky than doing what I suggested you were doing, which is: mentioning how you play as scum (which is not something the average player will just... randomly do), and then play how you don't usually play (in this case, not bus your buddies). That way, you're safe NOT bussing and actually spending time defending your teammates.
I never concluded anything about your alignment though, especially considering I'm open to Shinichi being scum, which means you would gain many town points, if such a thing exists.
This: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/777879-silence-of-the-lambs-d3-no-man-down?comment=1344
There were also some posts he made regarding his roleclaim which I thought were weird, but I've lost them.
Here's how things happened near the end of D2. I scumread Wheat. Everyone starts voting him. By then, I'm almost sure a Wheat lynch is going through. Which is why in #1227 I say I won't move my vote. EL starts giving reasons to dislike Shinichi's play alongside Wheat's. People start voting Shinichi, so now we have two clear lynch options, which means my vote should probably be reconsidered. I come back to some solid reasoning from EL and say I could help out with the Shinichi lynch if needed even though I prefer lynching Wheat more. Because I reconsidered my vote. My options. I stay on Wheat afterall. People stay on Wheat afterall. The lynch goes through.
Explain this? Scum defend their buddies all the time in order to prevent them from being lynched. Preventing scum from being lynched makes winning as scum easier.
Are YOU really asking someone to explain why a mafia wouldn't defend his buddy? You?
They are still questions whose purpose is to discern your alignment. I don't like how you're dismissing them as "run of the mill questions".
No, they are not. They are the perfect example of the type of questions scum are asking. Here are the few I quoted, once again: "Explain to me how these two questions help you figure out who the scum are?," "Why.. are you concerned about that, though? Your concern if you're town is to hunt the scum, correct?," "If you think RE1031 or AG is scum then why are you currently not voting either of them?"
You're questioning what people should be doing as townie when in fact there are a ton of things townies can do, and a ton of questions they can ask, which can all ultimately lead to catching scum without directly hunting scum, and you're being concerned about where people place their votes when there's no justification to do so. Like, "why is your vote not on your newest scumread from two posts ago?!?!" is a fair question near the endphase, but during midDay it sounds so incredibly picky.
- Quickhoodies is my preferred lynch Today because I went through his big posts and they show a willingness to keep the status quo/trying to remain under the radar. Plus, his reads reversal on me skeeves me out and he's not really showing that much active questioning or interrogation. His posting strongly reminds me of Precarious, who in my Championship game dodged real time interactions all game, just posted walls, and ended up flipping scum.
- Shinichi is.. I dunno, man. I had a lot of paranoia last Night about him/Wheat possibly being town/town but his posts Today, even when I've been gone for a week, don't line up. He plops his vote down on RE and uses a meta based reason for scumreading her. He sees JT being suspected by EL and says "@Terry you are very flip floppity maybe just as much as me, so that town read at that point is very minor prob the weakest of them all" which just reads as incredibly opportunistic to me. HE CONTRADICTS HIMSELF IN THE SAME SENTENCE. I try to throw him a rope but he's not solving, he's not hunting, he's not interrogating. He's plopping his vote down on RE, a lynch that is never going to happen Today, and tries to keep all of his lynch options open.
Ok. Fair enough about the reads reversal. If I put myself in your shoes, it does make sense to be confused as to why I townread kpaca more than you who is more productive. I still argue that your content is scummier. But I'll consider that you're town for a moment and make you think about the following: suppose I'm scum, what's the deal with me defending kpaca? There was absolutely nothing in it for me, especially considering I wasn't particularly town-reading him before I defended his lynch.
About Shinichi, I can't say I disagree with you, annoyingly enough. I know a player can make mistakes during a game, or phrase their opinions incorrectly, but Shinichi's posts have reached a point where I think he might just be forcing goofiness. And I say this being familiar with the posting style of Shinichi. The deal right now, is that besides EL and Vaimes (?), everyone is scumreading Shinichi for that one same reason.
His reads feel well-reasoned enough that he should be confident in them, yet he always hedges his bets like he's uncertain of them anyway, which I'd expect only from a weaker player.
My win record is rather impressive (esp. as mafia) but I have never successfully led a scum lynch as town, from what I can recall. So no, I'm not a very confident player. I appreciate you liking my reads, though. I also keep thinking that your thought pattern is similar to mine, which opposite from you being uncomfortable, makes me feel comfortable. People who think like you, in the setting of a mafia game, is usually a good sign; of course, unless such people follow your reads so as to either sheep or pocket you. Anyway, you're like an assertive version of me (also much less busy, which helps with the activity), and I don't see you pocketing me or anything. Like sure, you got on the Wheat train, but I don't see you being curious about what I think to the point where it indicates that you want to follow what I think. Or something like that. Plus I don't really want to lynch Terry.
Why are you focussed on "clearing yourself as much as possible" over, say.. finding the bad guys?
Your focus is noted.
Because I can definitely see scum trying out a lynch on me. It's impossible for them, if Shinichi is town, to restrict themselves to him. And if Shinichi is scum, even more reason to open up some options. So yeah, I figure I be trying to clear myself toDay, which can be done BY finding the bad guys.
Everyone wants to find the bad guys anyway. I don't believe in non-opiniated scum.
You liked kpaca's play, but you aren't liking my play. Yet, your playstyle is mostly reactive as opposed to proactive.
Discussion is heavy, and there are four players with votes on them. You are under pressure. Why aren't you even bothering to try and.. utilize your vote?
I dunno. When I read your posts I feel like they're more concerned with responding and catching up to things, which is fine, just. Where's the proactivity? Where's the scumhunting?
I didn't like kpaca's play. I didn't like his wagon. Thus, I was sort of open to lynching him but not really.
Also you do raise a good point on me, but that's not the first time I've seen someone misreading me because of this. I'm sorry about the lack of proactivity. I'm a catch-up-with-stuff-by-reacting-to-what-pings-me-and-catch-scum-accordingly. Honestly, reactivity could be said to be a form of proactivity, unless you're saying my pushes on you, on Wheat yesterDay and on various other people throughout the game, are complete garbage and hold no value. Plus, there's no telling which between reactivity and proactivity makes people scum and which doesn't.
If you don't like how I am playing this particular game, maybe ask yourself why? Why aren't you shooting some questions to me, in order for you to figure out my alignment? Why am I the one questioning you, instead of the other way around, if you're not liking my play much?
I tend to not know which questions to ask to actually help me solve the game, especially when I feel there's no need to ask you anything, so... that's probably why the questions are one-sided. I identified something I didn't like about your play and that I think could come from scum. I'm not an idiot, I know that the so-called 'run-of-the-mill questions' you're asking could very well come from a townie you, who just happens to try to to solve the game in a way I just so happen to think likely comes from a scum mind. But if I negate my own opinions like this and give them the benefit of the doubt, for every bad feeling I get, how am I supposed to come to any conclusions? Sure, I want to understand you better so that my read on you is as fair as possible, but I'm not gonna be all merciful. Also, I probably say this in every mafia game I've played in the history of time and eternity, but pointing out stuff I don't like about people and quoting them is just as efficient as asking them questions.
I don't even get how this is a response to the accusations I leveled in the quoted post. The defense boils down to: "Did I really say those things? It doesn't sound like me. And yeah but why did you stop pushing Kpaca?"
You've lost me, Grape.
So from what I understand, you were saying that me saying "I need to look into Grape more" does not make sense because I had actually already looked into you before. However, the posts you quoted don't show this. Here they are:
Grapefruit's general presence in the thread ever since the attempt on pushing kpaca just gives me a bad feeling, it's not a matter of activity so don't get me wrong. Forgot who asked me to explain it but I can't really, sorry. So I won't try anything against Grapefruit now because as I said it's more of a feeling thing.
Tomorrow I catch up. Bad vibes from Grapefruit.
Pretty sure Wheat is scum.
Plus people (including Grapefruit) pretty much gave you peace once you came in replacing kpaca.
My opinion of you boils down to "ehh, I get bad feelings from him from time to time, but nothing extremely alarming, and nothing I can really explain." I can see you not liking this, since I'm kind of just not reading you at all, but I do have something I know about you, as I've mentioned: the kpaca lynch from D1 died - you were the one who pushed it the most yet went onto Shinichi on D2. That fact kind of stuck with me.
Also you twist words quite alot too I just want to point that out there.
I've read the whole EL/JT conflict (and came out conflicted, if not utterly confused as to what was even going on) and I never once thought that EL was twisting words. Like when JT was saying so, it just looked to me as if EL misunderstood some kind of sentence from JT.
Do you think a townie or a mafia would want their posts to be more readable as opposed to difficult to read?
Do you think I purposely make my posts difficult to read? That is the question. Because I don't. But to answer your question myself, I honestly don't think scum even pay attention to this kind of thing. Scum would probably be more careful about the content of their posts rather than their form. Making their posts difficult to understand will just make them get questioned about it afterall, no?
I could do my catch-ups by replying to every quote post-by-post like Shinichi if you want. I just find that even more difficult to parse. I'm good at handling quotes and BBCode so I don't really have any issues with my current posting.
Am equally fine with a Shinichi or QH lynch Today.
I think both have a strong chance of being scumbuddies with each other - especially when QH said that he was willing to vote Shinichi but stuck with the Wheat lynch until the very end.
I'm not sure I'm enjoying this.
You start the day by saying Shinichi is your preferred lynch, but you place your vote on me for pressure purposes and because you think I'm the next most likely scum. This is totally fair and doesn't make me bat an eye. But now, the lynch on me has grown and I can smell you staying on me and profiting from the successful pressure. Or even switching to someone else when I have received enough votes to confirm that people really are suspicious of me. I think if you're scum with Shinichi, this is a great dodge. And I think if you're scum without Shinichi, this is also a great dodge, because which scum wouldn't want to keep town!Shin alive for the LyLo phase?
This is somewhat unfair from me though. There's nothing really stopping you from being a townie in what I'm suggesting above. But no, I think a you-Shin scumteam makes more sense than a Shin-me scumteam, if we're bothering to talk about potential scumteams. But who knows what you're seeing that I don't see.
Ok, so a Shinichi lynch is happening.
Here's the list of what we could do today, in order of what I prefer more to what I prefer less.
1. Lynching a mafia.
2. Lynching Shinichi to help us solve the game (according to EL).
3. Lynching my townreads (Vaimes, AG, a hint of EL, a hint of shadow, a slight hint of RE)
4. Lynching me.
The first option is what everyone wants, but it seems incredibly difficult to do in the current gamestate. Seeing that I don't want to see my ass get lynched, I will agree to any counter-lynch that's on one of the people I don't really townread. This includes Proph, Terry, Grape, and Shinichi.
That said, I'm not sure a Grape lynch would help me with anything, to be frank. But maybe if I dig. As for other lynches: Terry's, there are the people who town-locked him plus RE and EL with which he spent a lot of time arguing. Proph's, probably a less useful lynch, but it could help us with Shinichi and maybe Grapefruit (thanks to the kpaca slot) and shadow. Shinichi's, I'm not completely sold on his lynch being the most helpful because so many people want him dead right now but EL seems to be onto something.
That said, if someone disagrees with my reasons for suspecting Proph, shoot ahead. I want to know if it's possible to get him lynched right now, because I'm up for it.
As for QH (who are they on MAL, btw?) - their early posts don't appear to be Actively Scumhunting in any way and I'm not really getting the sense that they are actually interested in figuring out the alignments of others. Like, they voted shadow, but they haven't really probed shadow or actually actively interrogated him; they just left the vote and dipped out of the thread. Their activity level isn't super great either; instead of wall posts and comments/catch-up, I want real time interactions with the game and back and forth interrogation.
Mmh I forgot about this. Proph has been thinking about targeting me for longer than I thought, and for the same reasons roughly. So he's not just making stuff up for toDay. Okay, I like this, I think? Now his gripe on my play seems more legit. It's like his annoyance at my playstyle has hit him since the start and hasn't quit him.
What I'm getting at is...Are you fairly confident that there's no way Vaimes would have known it was you who gave him the ability? Your Role PM is quite clear that the gift is fully anonymous?
It's not something I'd expect from you. "Put my foot down" - or something like that. If WG were a scumbuddy, I doubt you'd make ties with him so blatantly, especially when your townread on him would get lost in all the scumreads of him, up until the point where WG would flip scum and you'd get scrutinized for it. (Because it was pretty clear that WG/Shinichi would be lynched yesterday). And that's why I'm so reluctant to move past Shinichi today, because I don't see another lynch happening.
Just because you think Shinichi will be the lynch doesn't mean that you can't talk about other players, in the meantime.
What are your thoughts on my alignment? What do you make of JT/EL arguing? What are your thoughts on Quickhoodies, and Vaimes's re-entry into the thread?
@QuickHoodies Yes I wanted Kpaca lynched D1. And if Shin flips scum then I'll want to lynch Proph and probably won't be talked out of it. But ever since entering the thread I haven't been actively scum reading Proph. Could be bias since Proph is a player I look up to, but I haven't seen the scum tells I've seen from him before. So my focus hasn't been on him.
As for the push but not a push I finally get what you're saying. You have been getting bad feelings off my posts ever since I dropped the Kpaca push. But you haven't investigated heavily to try and build a case. Fair enough. That said I find that behavior to be rather scummy. If you've been consistently getting these bad feelings I'd expect (based on the way you are treating the rest of your cases) that you would have looked into me. I know you for some reason don't feel entitled to, but it's mafia. This is a game. That's exactly what you're entitled to do. But your reluctance to do so feels like trying to keep the idea alive without committing to a push. And that's why I keep pushing it as scummy behavior.
Ok, so a Shinichi lynch is happening.
Here's the list of what we could do today, in order of what I prefer more to what I prefer less.
1. Lynching a mafia.
2. Lynching Shinichi to help us solve the game (according to EL).
3. Lynching my townreads (Vaimes, AG, a hint of EL, a hint of shadow, a slight hint of RE)
4. Lynching me.
The first option is what everyone wants, but it seems incredibly difficult to do in the current gamestate. Seeing that I don't want to see my ass get lynched, I will agree to any counter-lynch that's on one of the people I don't really townread. This includes Proph, Terry, Grape, and Shinichi.
That said, I'm not sure a Grape lynch would help me with anything, to be frank. But maybe if I dig. As for other lynches: Terry's, there are the people who town-locked him plus RE and EL with which he spent a lot of time arguing. Proph's, probably a less useful lynch, but it could help us with Shinichi and maybe Grapefruit (thanks to the kpaca slot) and shadow. Shinichi's, I'm not completely sold on his lynch being the most helpful because so many people want him dead right now but EL seems to be onto something.
That said, if someone disagrees with my reasons for suspecting Proph, shoot ahead. I want to know if it's possible to get him lynched right now, because I'm up for it.
Well, for one, you make options 1 and 2 sound like they're mutually exclusive.
For another, you're option selecting. If you believe Proph is mafia, put your vote on him and convince us that you're right. None of this "oh I guess all of these lynches are fine, whatever you guys want" bull*****. At this rate, I'm going to think you're scum trying to defend what you know will be a town flip, and I'm sorely tempted to flip this game on its ass and lynch you instead.
Also I'm pretty sure you know that if Shinichi flips town, you're gonna get roasted as soon as the next Day rolls in.
The last time I played with a suuuper scummy slot that I thought was town, they were actually town. But it was easier to townread them, because they kept getting wagoned (by the scumteam and some awful townies) and the wagon would stall out for literally four or five game Days.
Whereas here, Shinichi's wagon never really went anywhere. Dunno if it's due to the different number of players or what, but I think if mafia wanted to mislynch Shinichi, then he'd be long dead. Dude's practically a consequence-free, easily justifiable mislynch, and he's a PR to boot. I literally don't understand what the scumteam is doing re: him.
Honestly, 99% of it is "if he's scum, how is he planning on winning???"
I'd have an easier time believing he's Neutral. Or that he's playing this way on purpose to throw everyone for a loop.
Survive till mylo based on town apathy and TSBS based arguements? Dunno. Sometimes scum start trying to get lynched when they reach a point of no return. It's why I refered everyone to Mindreaver's play in Mistborn. He stayed alive a long time after taking heavy pressure and was damaged goods. Eventually he started posting sloppy nonsense to get lynched and avoid implicating his teammates.
And for the record I am not opposed to a CFD onto QH. Will be happy lynching either them or Shin.
Honestly, 99% of it is "if he's scum, how is he planning on winning???"
I'd have an easier time believing he's Neutral. Or that he's playing this way on purpose to throw everyone for a loop.
By letting buddies bus him, is an idea. I just got out of a game (lol) where he was scum. His playstyle works a lot better on his home site, where people (like me...) are inclined to give him a pass because of meta.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Let's say we CFD onto QH (because screw it right, Shin can live another bloody day) and he flips scum. Then what? Is the game plan "Let shin live to endgame"? Because I'm not willing to bet the game on one line here that would make shin town. I'm just not.
Ugh, I sound unreasonable don't I? It's late and I don't feel like staying up for a several more hours, but I think I need a hard reset this game. Can we not lynch anyone until at least Sunday night and I can reread some people over the weekend?
Why didn't you hammer shin yesterday when he was at L-1?
I didn't want to hammer Shinichi because I wanted to hear his last thoughts, plus I wanted to save Cantrip the trouble of looking for a replacement.
Quote from Vaimes »
I don't recall seeing the votecount near EoD. Just had a vague understanding that Wheat had more votes. It's not like I could have hammered him anyways, nor could the wagon have shifted to Shinichi at the last minute.
Got it.
--
Quote from Quickhoodies »
So like at least three people agree that I have had zero impact this game. My feelings are hurt as heck. Especially since it's not true. Anyway.
Well, tell me what you've actually accomplished so far in this game? I don't really remember what you have done, off the top of my head.
Quote from Quickhoodies »
By "going with the flow," I mean looking at what people post and identifying what they say as townie/scummy when it strikes me so. It's how I've always played and it's how everyone plays. Going with the flow means to interpret things as they come, not sheeping people or acting like a dead log on a river lol.
Is that all you want to be doing, though? Looking at what people post and saying if it's townie or scummy? How about actively questioning/interrogating them?
Quote from Quickhoodies »
Doesn't change the fact that it was impossible for scum!Wheat to vote Shinichi anyway, so for you to townread him because he didn't move to the wagon "when it was readily available for him" (note: it wasn't) and discredit people who voted Wheat is wrong.
..what exactly do you mean by this, QH? Why was it impossible for scum!Wheat to vote Shinichi, especially since we know that Wheat flipped town?
And I'm focused on you because you have had very minor impact this game and I think you've been under the radar. I want your slot to receive more pressure and to actually hunt the bad guys.
Quote from Quickhoodies »
That's fair enough, but what matters the most to me was that my read on Wheat was based on basically all of his posts, while you just spoke up and said "his frustration looks genuine and townie" by mostly only relying on the posts he had made after receiving a bunch of pressure.
..what?
I did my own analysis of Wheat_Grinder as you can see here. My read on Wheat was based on all of his posts, too!
Quote from Quickhoodies »
I guess that's what I'm doing? Not sure how that's wrong. I'm not painting you as scum, I'm looking for reasons that a scum!Proph world makes sense. And it does for me, which is why I'm keeping the suspicions alive.
So, you're openly admitting to shading me, without even casting a vote on me. Cool.
Quote from Quickhoodies »
You mentioned in the thread that you like to bus as scum. You mentioned it loud and clear for everyone to hear. That's what rubbed me the wrong way. You're aware of how you play as scum, and you're aware that others in here are aware too.
How is me stating the facts rubbing you the wrong way? I bus as scum to cover up the fact that I suck at it. I can't fake pushing townies, which is why I like to bus my scumbuddies as scum. I have several games I can show you to prove this. Why do you think me stating that I like to bus as scum comes from a mafia mindset?
Quote from Quickhoodies »
if you're scum, playing how you usually do is much more risky than doing what I suggested you were doing, which is: mentioning how you play as scum (which is not something the average player will just... randomly do)
I didn't just randomly do it, though. shadow asked me what my was general stance on powerwolfing. You're misinterpreting the facts in order to shade me.
Quote from Quickhoodies »
I never concluded anything about your alignment though, especially considering I'm open to Shinichi being scum, which means you would gain many town points, if such a thing exists.
Leaving an opening/escape hatch to townread me
Quote from Quickhoodies »
People start voting Shinichi, so now we have two clear lynch options, which means my vote should probably be reconsidered.
Town vibes because of a carefree Shinichi and a carefree Shinichi is usually a townie Shinichi. I tell you all, I've studied the Shinichi. I have a doctorate in Shinichi. (just slight town vibes though, don't think I'm too serious)
Plus you stated in post 961:
Quote from Quickhoodies »
Ahh that's a good question though. I don't see any scummy intent behind both of his posts. They both look like posts that could have been made without being anonymously announced, actually. I think I'm just gonna ignore the fact that Shinichi has this ability because I don't think it's too relevant. So basically, Shinichi is a good old townread of mine again. Still confused as to why town would be announcer though and I'm not sure where all of you people are getting the "anouncer = town" equation, so my guess is he has a second ability and I probably shouldn't be mentioning that.
"Shinichi is a good old townread of mine once again." Then you state that you are willing to vote Wheat. Your progression doesn't make any sense. How did Shinichi go from a townread to a "willing to help out with the vote"?
Quote from Quickhoodies »
Are YOU really asking someone to explain why a mafia wouldn't defend his buddy? You?
No? I was just questioning RE as to why I would have jumped higher on her townreads if I heavily defended scum.
Quote from Quickhoodies »
You're questioning what people should be doing as townie when in fact there are a ton of things townies can do, and a ton of questions they can ask, which can all ultimately lead to catching scum without directly hunting scum, and you're being concerned about where people place their votes when there's no justification to do so. Like, "why is your vote not on your newest scumread from two posts ago?!?!" is a fair question near the endphase, but during midDay it sounds so incredibly picky.
Do I really have to repeat this diatribe again?
If you're town, then your vote and your voice are the only two weapons you have in order to catch scum. You withholding your vote for so long puzzles me in that regard because you're deliberately not using one of your only two weapons.
What are the "lots of things townies can do that lead to them catching scum without directly hunting scum"? Every townie should be hunting the baddies as their first priority tbh.
Quote from Quickhoodies »
. But I'll consider that you're town for a moment and make you think about the following: suppose I'm scum, what's the deal with me defending kpaca? There was absolutely nothing in it for me, especially considering I wasn't particularly town-reading him before I defended his lynch.
Maybe you were trying to pocket kpaca or appear as though you had townreads. If you defended the lynch and it went through and my slot flipped town, it would look good for you, versus if you hopped on the bandwagon and would get heat for it.
Quote from Quickhoodies »
Because I can definitely see scum trying out a lynch on me. It's impossible for them, if Shinichi is town, to restrict themselves to him. And if Shinichi is scum, even more reason to open up some options. So yeah, I figure I be trying to clear myself toDay, which can be done BY finding the bad guys.
Everyone wants to find the bad guys anyway. I don't believe in non-opiniated scum.
Who are the baddies then?
Quote from Quickhoodies »
Also you do raise a good point on me, but that's not the first time I've seen someone misreading me because of this. I'm sorry about the lack of proactivity. I'm a catch-up-with-stuff-by-reacting-to-what-pings-me-and-catch-scum-accordingly. Honestly, reactivity could be said to be a form of proactivity, unless you're saying my pushes on you, on Wheat yesterDay and on various other people throughout the game, are complete garbage and hold no value. Plus, there's no telling which between reactivity and proactivity makes people scum and which doesn't.
You say that you are reacting to what pings you and catch scum that way. What has pinged you? Who do you think is scum?
I disagree with the fact that reactivity is a form of proactivity. If we want to catch the baddies then we need to be proactive. We can't just fixate on defense. Scum won't lynch themselves.
Proactive people = more town. More reactive people = more scum.
Quote from Quickhoodies »
I tend to not know which questions to ask to actually help me solve the game, especially when I feel there's no need to ask you anything, so... that's probably why the questions are one-sided. I identified something I didn't like about your play and that I think could come from scum. I'm not an idiot, I know that the so-called 'run-of-the-mill questions' you're asking could very well come from a townie you, who just happens to try to to solve the game in a way I just so happen to think likely comes from a scum mind. But if I negate my own opinions like this and give them the benefit of the doubt, for every bad feeling I get, how am I supposed to come to any conclusions? Sure, I want to understand you better so that my read on you is as fair as possible, but I'm not gonna be all merciful. Also, I probably say this in every mafia game I've played in the history of time and eternity, but pointing out stuff I don't like about people and quoting them is just as efficient as asking them questions.
I disagree with the last sentence but this is giving me some doubt about this read. Hm. I kind of like how QH is explaining his mindset here but it doesn't really change the fact that he hasn't really been hunting?
Quote from Quickhoodies »
You start the day by saying Shinichi is your preferred lynch, but you place your vote on me for pressure purposes and because you think I'm the next most likely scum. This is totally fair and doesn't make me bat an eye.
How is it fair? If you're town, you know that you are town. Why are votes on you fair?
Quote from QH »
But now, the lynch on me has grown and I can smell you staying on me and profiting from the successful pressure.
Feels like QH is trying to test the waters on a potential wagon on me before they commit to a vote which is just pretty scummy in all worlds
I have slight doubts on him due to his explaining mindset post but I'm still pretty happy with him or Shinichi being lynched Today. I think they are both scumbuddies who are both under pressure and he's trying to weasel his way out of not lynching Shinichi or himself by softly floating me as a potential lynch option
Quote from QH »
Umm what makes you think so?
Shin is far from an easy case for me at this point, I don't have a good idea of what he is.
Then why don't you try to ask questions in order to figure him out
Well, for one, you make options 1 and 2 sound like they're mutually exclusive.
For another, you're option selecting. If you believe Proph is mafia, put your vote on him and convince us that you're right. None of this "oh I guess all of these lynches are fine, whatever you guys want" bull*****. At this rate, I'm going to think you're scum trying to defend what you know will be a town flip, and I'm sorely tempted to flip this game on its ass and lynch you instead.
Also I'm pretty sure you know that if Shinichi flips town, you're gonna get roasted as soon as the next Day rolls in.
They're not mutually exclusive, man.
First option is lynching mafia. That's always the first option in any game any day. Second is lynching Shin, and considering all these votes on him, that does sound like a pretty damn relevant option. But since we can't be 100% sure he's mafia I can't put it up there lol. Hence why I said "Lynching mafia" is an impossible option.
Option selecting is fine, isn't it?
I specifically asked if any of you were fine with Proph. I don't need to convince you further, I've done what I could about that by underlining what I don't like about Proph. If you guys don't agree with it it's not the end of the world because your reads can have as much value as mine. But I'm gonna disagree with what I can disagree with and agree with what I can agree with. I get called out for having an 'agenda' one day and now I'm 'too cooperative' I guess? This disjointment is making me scummy, maybe? I'm not gonna camp a useless vote on Proph if I'm gonna get called out for "avoiding the heated lynches" like Shinichi's anyway. I don't need to put my vote on Proph to write to him and about him, you all should please stop with your "your vote is your only weapon" fallacy.
How am I defending any lynch, much less any town flip? You just said I'm apparently open to any lynch. Where did you get that I know Shinichi flips town? I don't particularly think he's a certain town.
If Shin flips town I'm doomed? I though people said it was the other way around lol.
I'm town and I'm not letting this jump on me succeed.
@Vaimes I think going for a Shinichi lynch would be difficult as mafia. You never want to have only one lynch option to focus on, which is why you try to create a second townie wagon.
Plus, can you imagine if the scum team manages to keep Shin alive for LyLo? Town is lost.
I think it's fair to say that the Shinichi wagon has been stalled for a very long time, I'm not sure what's different here.
So yeah, Shin is either mafia, either mafia's tool towards a win.
@Vaimes I think going for a Shinichi lynch would be difficult as mafia. You never want to have only one lynch option to focus on, which is why you try to create a second townie wagon.
Plus, can you imagine if the scum team manages to keep Shin alive for LyLo? Town is lost.
I think it's fair to say that the Shinichi wagon has been stalled for a very long time, I'm not sure what's different here.
So yeah, Shin is either mafia, either mafia's tool towards a win.
I can't say what alignment this is coming from, but I agree with this post. Shinichi must go.
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1. How do you feel about a Shinichi lynch? You say it's a "pretty relevant option" but you provide no insight as to whether you think he's scum or not. This feels like scum weighing a lynch option on their buddy, rather than actually committing a vote somewhere.
2. If you think that I am scum, why are you just putting out feelers for it? You weighing the option that I am scum and saying "if you guys disagree with it, that's fine" is not a town mindset. Townies would push and actively fight for a person that they want lynched, because they need to lynch scum in order to win the game. You putting out feelers just reads like you're trying to shade me.
Quote from QH »
don't need to put my vote on Proph to write to him and about him, you all should please stop with your "your vote is your only weapon" fallacy.
What fallacy is this? Voting early and voting often is how you win games of mafia.
Quote from QH »
How am I defending any lynch, much less any town flip? You just said I'm apparently open to any lynch. Where did you get that I know Shinichi flips town? I don't particularly think he's a certain town.
Don't particularly think he's a certain town? What?
Quote from QH »
I'm town and I'm not letting this jump on me succeed.
Then start hunting baddies then because I don't see you doing it
I'd move my vote to a Shinichi wagon, but QH's posts are just so darn scummy.
Him explicitly shading me, refusing to cast a vote, and refusing to vote/case me even though he says he thinks I am scum feels so much like scum trying to see if they can get any traction on me before casting their vote. Plus, the way that QH is refusing to vote for Shinichi even though he says that Shinichi is either scum or mafia's tool towards a win makes me think that he's trying to do damage control.
Their wagons should be tied, plus QH should probably claim.
Been super busy today, will try to make up for it tomorrow.
One quick question @Shinichi in the meantime, though: if Town-you is sure that either I'm scum or Terry is, how does Town-you possibly imagine that I could be the scum out of the pair given that I don't want you lynched toDay, when you'd be such an easy mislynch?
Your basically saying if your mafia why wouldn't you push for an obvious lynch, and honestly that answer is pretty simple. You know the lynch won't happen, scum would want to cause a mislynch not spending the entire day to fail at one. That is just my hypothesis and answer to your question. If I am wrong about that hypothesis then it would mean you are actually town.
Been super busy today, will try to make up for it tomorrow.
One quick question @Shinichi in the meantime, though: if Town-you is sure that either I'm scum or Terry is, how does Town-you possibly imagine that I could be the scum out of the pair given that I don't want you lynched toDay, when you'd be such an easy mislynch?
Oh Mr. White Knight, thank you for coming to my aid! You've voted shin as many times as I have today. Now you don't want to lynch him?
Should it really be considered white knighting? It's not like hes defending me at all, the people who are focusing me are the ones that will eventually drive themselves into a corner either that or town will actually lynch me. YOu also seemed pretty inclined not to lynch me until you finally snapped saying i had to be sorted out for the game to continue on. Which could obviously be a statement you want to hide behind incase i am mislynched.
Been super busy today, will try to make up for it tomorrow.
One quick question @Shinichi in the meantime, though: if Town-you is sure that either I'm scum or Terry is, how does Town-you possibly imagine that I could be the scum out of the pair given that I don't want you lynched toDay, when you'd be such an easy mislynch?
Ohhh give me a break. You've been saying all day you don't want to lynch Shin but you'd be willing to. You aren't leading the charge but you also haven't been fighting against it. Look I think you/Terry is t/t but that is a silly leading question.
How are they T/T? Also who is the 1st sentence refering to for reference?
Vaimes can you explain to me your thought process in that EoD? Like, did you wake up, see that Wheat was at L-1?
I don't recall seeing the votecount near EoD. Just had a vague understanding that Wheat had more votes. It's not like I could have hammered him anyways, nor could the wagon have shifted to Shinichi at the last minute.
Why didn't you hammer shin yesterday when he was at L-1?
When was this?
tbh I am waffling on Shinichi. Like, completely. He's probably the scummmiest slot I've ever had to deal with, but for some reason, the idea of killing him freaks me out. I really don't know how to describe it, but I think other people feel it too, otherwise he wouldn't be alive.
Kinda just want to bite the bullet and kill him, since if he's a mislynch I'd rather not lose the game off of it. But I also don't want to just have everyone park their attention on him and let the rest of the gamestate stagnate.
This isn't really an answer, since you're asking about a window of time in a two-week period, but it's probably going to be close to the actual answer.
I don't know how I am alive, but the fact that I am alive means people have doubts that I am scum, seeing as how I havent been anywhere close to being hammered during this phase. I already told you and others atleast 1 or 2 people who are ok voting me are scum. The people that are reluctant to hammer have to reasons why.
1.They are scum, which means they rather not hammer someone that will flip town
2.They are town, which means they have doubts about me flipping scum so they don't wanna hammer a mislynch.
I want it known for the record that I really would have liked to lynch Shinichi Day 1, but SOME people decided that he wasn't scummy enough, and look where we are now.
Regardless of his alignment, I think we'd be having a much easier time had we offed him early.
I do agree to this, if day 1 hadnt been a no lynch me dieing would have saved the game lots of trouble. Alas i am still alive though.
Well, for one, you make options 1 and 2 sound like they're mutually exclusive.
For another, you're option selecting. If you believe Proph is mafia, put your vote on him and convince us that you're right. None of this "oh I guess all of these lynches are fine, whatever you guys want" bull*****. At this rate, I'm going to think you're scum trying to defend what you know will be a town flip, and I'm sorely tempted to flip this game on its ass and lynch you instead.
Also I'm pretty sure you know that if Shinichi flips town, you're gonna get roasted as soon as the next Day rolls in.
Who is that last sentence refering too? As I would like to convince you of my reads, but alas I havent had the chance.
i know you said it was one of re/(el/jt) but you've made no effort to convince others of that fact. do you think you will get re lynched today based on how you are playing thus far?
The last time I played with a suuuper scummy slot that I thought was town, they were actually town. But it was easier to townread them, because they kept getting wagoned (by the scumteam and some awful townies) and the wagon would stall out for literally four or five game Days.
Whereas here, Shinichi's wagon never really went anywhere. Dunno if it's due to the different number of players or what, but I think if mafia wanted to mislynch Shinichi, then he'd be long dead. Dude's practically a consequence-free, easily justifiable mislynch, and he's a PR to boot. I literally don't understand what the scumteam is doing re: him.
jt: i want to lynch people with 24 hours of the deadline left because i don't want to risk another no lynch. i don't want what happened in day 1 (no lynch) and day 2 (us risking the no lynch until you stepped in and hammered wheat) to happen again.
is this clear? i can try to explain better when i am not on mobile
@everyone so im gonna full claim to clear up any misunderstandings
I am precious the Poodle
My role is Town Yapper
My ability is called Bark my head off: Each Day, before I've made my fifth post of the day, I can send a message of no more than 50 characters to the host via PM. The Host will post that message anonymously in the thread.
Honestly, 99% of it is "if he's scum, how is he planning on winning???"
I'd have an easier time believing he's Neutral. Or that he's playing this way on purpose to throw everyone for a loop.
By letting buddies bus him, is an idea. I just got out of a game (lol) where he was scum. His playstyle works a lot better on his home site, where people (like me...) are inclined to give him a pass because of meta.
Thats why i was so confused on how you easily trust me here, leads me to believe something is up.
Let's say we CFD onto QH (because screw it right, Shin can live another bloody day) and he flips scum. Then what? Is the game plan "Let shin live to endgame"? Because I'm not willing to bet the game on one line here that would make shin town. I'm just not.
Ugh, I sound unreasonable don't I? It's late and I don't feel like staying up for a several more hours, but I think I need a hard reset this game. Can we not lynch anyone until at least Sunday night and I can reread some people over the weekend?
So your not willing to let town live to the entire game noted, there no way in hell ill have a night kill wasted on me at this point.
Honestly, 99% of it is "if he's scum, how is he planning on winning???"
I'd have an easier time believing he's Neutral. Or that he's playing this way on purpose to throw everyone for a loop.
By letting buddies bus him, is an idea. I just got out of a game (lol) where he was scum. His playstyle works a lot better on his home site, where people (like me...) are inclined to give him a pass because of meta.
Thats why i was so confused on how you easily trust me here, leads me to believe something is up.
Well, when I did trust you, that was before I saw your other scum games. And I will try to avoid using meta from here on out, at least when town-clearing people.
@RE1031 - You've played with scum!Shinichi in Grape's most recent game. Would you say he is similar to that game in this one?
I don't want to talk about that game. My reads were crap. Plus I skimmed through a little over 20 pages in one night, so I honestly don't remember much from it. But he was facing far less heat than in this game.
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@everyone so im gonna full claim to clear up any misunderstandings
I am precious the Poodle
My role is Town Yapper
My ability is called Bark my head off: Each Day, before I've made my fifth post of the day, I can send a message of no more than 50 characters to the host via PM. The Host will post that message anonymously in the thread.
Something about this claim bugged me. I realized it was something from the sign up thread:
This is a mildly flavorful game that focuses on behavior. The list of characters (without roles) was randomized by alignment, then roles were assigned accordingly.
You know the drill: /in or /replace as desired. I will not be creating a spectator chat for this one until and unless D1 proceeds without replacement hitches, but you can /spectate in anticipation of that possibility if you want.
It was my impression that flavor and roles were handed out separately. Discuss. I'm mobile, so I can't do a ton into this today, but if some other peeps can consider this please look into it.
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By "going with the flow," I mean looking at what people post and identifying what they say as townie/scummy when it strikes me so. It's how I've always played and it's how everyone plays. Going with the flow means to interpret things as they come, not sheeping people or acting like a dead log on a river lol.
Doesn't change the fact that it was impossible for scum!Wheat to vote Shinichi anyway, so for you to townread him because he didn't move to the wagon "when it was readily available for him" (note: it wasn't) and discredit people who voted Wheat is wrong.
That's fair enough, but what matters the most to me was that my read on Wheat was based on basically all of his posts, while you just spoke up and said "his frustration looks genuine and townie" by mostly only relying on the posts he had made after receiving a bunch of pressure.
I guess that's what I'm doing? Not sure how that's wrong. I'm not painting you as scum, I'm looking for reasons that a scum!Proph world makes sense. And it does for me, which is why I'm keeping the suspicions alive.
You mentioned in the thread that you like to bus as scum. You mentioned it loud and clear for everyone to hear. That's what rubbed me the wrong way. You're aware of how you play as scum, and you're aware that others in here are aware too. So if you're scum, playing how you usually do is much more risky than doing what I suggested you were doing, which is: mentioning how you play as scum (which is not something the average player will just... randomly do), and then play how you don't usually play (in this case, not bus your buddies). That way, you're safe NOT bussing and actually spending time defending your teammates.
I never concluded anything about your alignment though, especially considering I'm open to Shinichi being scum, which means you would gain many town points, if such a thing exists.
This: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/777879-silence-of-the-lambs-d3-no-man-down?comment=1344
There were also some posts he made regarding his roleclaim which I thought were weird, but I've lost them.
Here's how things happened near the end of D2. I scumread Wheat. Everyone starts voting him. By then, I'm almost sure a Wheat lynch is going through. Which is why in #1227 I say I won't move my vote. EL starts giving reasons to dislike Shinichi's play alongside Wheat's. People start voting Shinichi, so now we have two clear lynch options, which means my vote should probably be reconsidered. I come back to some solid reasoning from EL and say I could help out with the Shinichi lynch if needed even though I prefer lynching Wheat more. Because I reconsidered my vote. My options. I stay on Wheat afterall. People stay on Wheat afterall. The lynch goes through.
---
Are YOU really asking someone to explain why a mafia wouldn't defend his buddy? You?
No, they are not. They are the perfect example of the type of questions scum are asking. Here are the few I quoted, once again: "Explain to me how these two questions help you figure out who the scum are?," "Why.. are you concerned about that, though? Your concern if you're town is to hunt the scum, correct?," "If you think RE1031 or AG is scum then why are you currently not voting either of them?"
You're questioning what people should be doing as townie when in fact there are a ton of things townies can do, and a ton of questions they can ask, which can all ultimately lead to catching scum without directly hunting scum, and you're being concerned about where people place their votes when there's no justification to do so. Like, "why is your vote not on your newest scumread from two posts ago?!?!" is a fair question near the endphase, but during midDay it sounds so incredibly picky.
Ok. Fair enough about the reads reversal. If I put myself in your shoes, it does make sense to be confused as to why I townread kpaca more than you who is more productive. I still argue that your content is scummier. But I'll consider that you're town for a moment and make you think about the following: suppose I'm scum, what's the deal with me defending kpaca? There was absolutely nothing in it for me, especially considering I wasn't particularly town-reading him before I defended his lynch.
About Shinichi, I can't say I disagree with you, annoyingly enough. I know a player can make mistakes during a game, or phrase their opinions incorrectly, but Shinichi's posts have reached a point where I think he might just be forcing goofiness. And I say this being familiar with the posting style of Shinichi. The deal right now, is that besides EL and Vaimes (?), everyone is scumreading Shinichi for that one same reason.
My win record is rather impressive (esp. as mafia) but I have never successfully led a scum lynch as town, from what I can recall. So no, I'm not a very confident player. I appreciate you liking my reads, though. I also keep thinking that your thought pattern is similar to mine, which opposite from you being uncomfortable, makes me feel comfortable. People who think like you, in the setting of a mafia game, is usually a good sign; of course, unless such people follow your reads so as to either sheep or pocket you. Anyway, you're like an assertive version of me (also much less busy, which helps with the activity), and I don't see you pocketing me or anything. Like sure, you got on the Wheat train, but I don't see you being curious about what I think to the point where it indicates that you want to follow what I think. Or something like that. Plus I don't really want to lynch Terry.
Because I can definitely see scum trying out a lynch on me. It's impossible for them, if Shinichi is town, to restrict themselves to him. And if Shinichi is scum, even more reason to open up some options. So yeah, I figure I be trying to clear myself toDay, which can be done BY finding the bad guys.
Everyone wants to find the bad guys anyway. I don't believe in non-opiniated scum.
I didn't like kpaca's play. I didn't like his wagon. Thus, I was sort of open to lynching him but not really.
Also you do raise a good point on me, but that's not the first time I've seen someone misreading me because of this. I'm sorry about the lack of proactivity. I'm a catch-up-with-stuff-by-reacting-to-what-pings-me-and-catch-scum-accordingly. Honestly, reactivity could be said to be a form of proactivity, unless you're saying my pushes on you, on Wheat yesterDay and on various other people throughout the game, are complete garbage and hold no value. Plus, there's no telling which between reactivity and proactivity makes people scum and which doesn't.
I tend to not know which questions to ask to actually help me solve the game, especially when I feel there's no need to ask you anything, so... that's probably why the questions are one-sided. I identified something I didn't like about your play and that I think could come from scum. I'm not an idiot, I know that the so-called 'run-of-the-mill questions' you're asking could very well come from a townie you, who just happens to try to to solve the game in a way I just so happen to think likely comes from a scum mind. But if I negate my own opinions like this and give them the benefit of the doubt, for every bad feeling I get, how am I supposed to come to any conclusions? Sure, I want to understand you better so that my read on you is as fair as possible, but I'm not gonna be all merciful. Also, I probably say this in every mafia game I've played in the history of time and eternity, but pointing out stuff I don't like about people and quoting them is just as efficient as asking them questions.
*the sound of my heart breaking*
You've lost me, Grape.
So from what I understand, you were saying that me saying "I need to look into Grape more" does not make sense because I had actually already looked into you before. However, the posts you quoted don't show this. Here they are:
inb4 shadow, Grape and Proph are all mafia and the plotting is more real than ever.
I've read the whole EL/JT conflict (and came out conflicted, if not utterly confused as to what was even going on) and I never once thought that EL was twisting words. Like when JT was saying so, it just looked to me as if EL misunderstood some kind of sentence from JT.
Do you think I purposely make my posts difficult to read? That is the question. Because I don't. But to answer your question myself, I honestly don't think scum even pay attention to this kind of thing. Scum would probably be more careful about the content of their posts rather than their form. Making their posts difficult to understand will just make them get questioned about it afterall, no?
I could do my catch-ups by replying to every quote post-by-post like Shinichi if you want. I just find that even more difficult to parse. I'm good at handling quotes and BBCode so I don't really have any issues with my current posting.
I'm not sure I'm enjoying this.
You start the day by saying Shinichi is your preferred lynch, but you place your vote on me for pressure purposes and because you think I'm the next most likely scum. This is totally fair and doesn't make me bat an eye. But now, the lynch on me has grown and I can smell you staying on me and profiting from the successful pressure. Or even switching to someone else when I have received enough votes to confirm that people really are suspicious of me. I think if you're scum with Shinichi, this is a great dodge. And I think if you're scum without Shinichi, this is also a great dodge, because which scum wouldn't want to keep town!Shin alive for the LyLo phase?
This is somewhat unfair from me though. There's nothing really stopping you from being a townie in what I'm suggesting above. But no, I think a you-Shin scumteam makes more sense than a Shin-me scumteam, if we're bothering to talk about potential scumteams. But who knows what you're seeing that I don't see.
Ugh. Town vibes, anyone? I do like him pointing out how people are teaming him with a bunch of people.
Here's the list of what we could do today, in order of what I prefer more to what I prefer less.
1. Lynching a mafia.
2. Lynching Shinichi to help us solve the game (according to EL).
3. Lynching my townreads (Vaimes, AG, a hint of EL, a hint of shadow, a slight hint of RE)
4. Lynching me.
The first option is what everyone wants, but it seems incredibly difficult to do in the current gamestate. Seeing that I don't want to see my ass get lynched, I will agree to any counter-lynch that's on one of the people I don't really townread. This includes Proph, Terry, Grape, and Shinichi.
That said, I'm not sure a Grape lynch would help me with anything, to be frank. But maybe if I dig. As for other lynches: Terry's, there are the people who town-locked him plus RE and EL with which he spent a lot of time arguing. Proph's, probably a less useful lynch, but it could help us with Shinichi and maybe Grapefruit (thanks to the kpaca slot) and shadow. Shinichi's, I'm not completely sold on his lynch being the most helpful because so many people want him dead right now but EL seems to be onto something.
That said, if someone disagrees with my reasons for suspecting Proph, shoot ahead. I want to know if it's possible to get him lynched right now, because I'm up for it.
Mmh I forgot about this. Proph has been thinking about targeting me for longer than I thought, and for the same reasons roughly. So he's not just making stuff up for toDay. Okay, I like this, I think? Now his gripe on my play seems more legit. It's like his annoyance at my playstyle has hit him since the start and hasn't quit him.
But then there's this:
As for the push but not a push I finally get what you're saying. You have been getting bad feelings off my posts ever since I dropped the Kpaca push. But you haven't investigated heavily to try and build a case. Fair enough. That said I find that behavior to be rather scummy. If you've been consistently getting these bad feelings I'd expect (based on the way you are treating the rest of your cases) that you would have looked into me. I know you for some reason don't feel entitled to, but it's mafia. This is a game. That's exactly what you're entitled to do. But your reluctance to do so feels like trying to keep the idea alive without committing to a push. And that's why I keep pushing it as scummy behavior.
She let it go a little way, then pulled it back again.
Buzz wuzz went that little fly, and flew and flew in vain.
Till Nelly gave a little yank, and sliced the fly in twain.
Votecount 3.3 - With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch.
QuickHoodies (1): Prophylaxis
Shinichi (4): shadowlancerx, RE1031, Vaimes, Grapefruit21
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (1): EternalLurker
Not Voting: AtheistGod, Quickhoodies, Shinichi, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Please inform me of any errors.
Deadline is next Wednesday, August 9th, at 2pm MDT.
Umm what makes you think so?
Shin is far from an easy case for me at this point, I don't have a good idea of what he is.
Well, for one, you make options 1 and 2 sound like they're mutually exclusive.
For another, you're option selecting. If you believe Proph is mafia, put your vote on him and convince us that you're right. None of this "oh I guess all of these lynches are fine, whatever you guys want" bull*****. At this rate, I'm going to think you're scum trying to defend what you know will be a town flip, and I'm sorely tempted to flip this game on its ass and lynch you instead.
Also I'm pretty sure you know that if Shinichi flips town, you're gonna get roasted as soon as the next Day rolls in.
Whereas here, Shinichi's wagon never really went anywhere. Dunno if it's due to the different number of players or what, but I think if mafia wanted to mislynch Shinichi, then he'd be long dead. Dude's practically a consequence-free, easily justifiable mislynch, and he's a PR to boot. I literally don't understand what the scumteam is doing re: him.
Also, was the game you're previously referring to on this site?
I'd have an easier time believing he's Neutral. Or that he's playing this way on purpose to throw everyone for a loop.
I can dance with this:
Vote: Quickhoodies
Survive till mylo based on town apathy and TSBS based arguements? Dunno. Sometimes scum start trying to get lynched when they reach a point of no return. It's why I refered everyone to Mindreaver's play in Mistborn. He stayed alive a long time after taking heavy pressure and was damaged goods. Eventually he started posting sloppy nonsense to get lynched and avoid implicating his teammates.
And for the record I am not opposed to a CFD onto QH. Will be happy lynching either them or Shin.
By letting buddies bus him, is an idea. I just got out of a game (lol) where he was scum. His playstyle works a lot better on his home site, where people (like me...) are inclined to give him a pass because of meta.
I should have more time to participate in this game now, for [reasons].
Got it.
--
Well, tell me what you've actually accomplished so far in this game? I don't really remember what you have done, off the top of my head.
Is that all you want to be doing, though? Looking at what people post and saying if it's townie or scummy? How about actively questioning/interrogating them?
..what exactly do you mean by this, QH? Why was it impossible for scum!Wheat to vote Shinichi, especially since we know that Wheat flipped town?
And I'm focused on you because you have had very minor impact this game and I think you've been under the radar. I want your slot to receive more pressure and to actually hunt the bad guys.
..what?
I did my own analysis of Wheat_Grinder as you can see here. My read on Wheat was based on all of his posts, too!
So, you're openly admitting to shading me, without even casting a vote on me. Cool.
How is me stating the facts rubbing you the wrong way? I bus as scum to cover up the fact that I suck at it. I can't fake pushing townies, which is why I like to bus my scumbuddies as scum. I have several games I can show you to prove this. Why do you think me stating that I like to bus as scum comes from a mafia mindset?
I didn't just randomly do it, though. shadow asked me what my was general stance on powerwolfing. You're misinterpreting the facts in order to shade me.
Leaving an opening/escape hatch to townread me
But you stated that you had a townread on Shinichi in 108, though:
Plus you stated in post 961:
"Shinichi is a good old townread of mine once again." Then you state that you are willing to vote Wheat. Your progression doesn't make any sense. How did Shinichi go from a townread to a "willing to help out with the vote"?
No? I was just questioning RE as to why I would have jumped higher on her townreads if I heavily defended scum.
Do I really have to repeat this diatribe again?
If you're town, then your vote and your voice are the only two weapons you have in order to catch scum. You withholding your vote for so long puzzles me in that regard because you're deliberately not using one of your only two weapons.
What are the "lots of things townies can do that lead to them catching scum without directly hunting scum"? Every townie should be hunting the baddies as their first priority tbh.
Maybe you were trying to pocket kpaca or appear as though you had townreads. If you defended the lynch and it went through and my slot flipped town, it would look good for you, versus if you hopped on the bandwagon and would get heat for it.
Who are the baddies then?
You say that you are reacting to what pings you and catch scum that way. What has pinged you? Who do you think is scum?
I disagree with the fact that reactivity is a form of proactivity. If we want to catch the baddies then we need to be proactive. We can't just fixate on defense. Scum won't lynch themselves.
Proactive people = more town. More reactive people = more scum.
I disagree with the last sentence but this is giving me some doubt about this read. Hm. I kind of like how QH is explaining his mindset here but it doesn't really change the fact that he hasn't really been hunting?
How is it fair? If you're town, you know that you are town. Why are votes on you fair?
How would I be profiting from pressure on you?
I have slight doubts on him due to his explaining mindset post but I'm still pretty happy with him or Shinichi being lynched Today. I think they are both scumbuddies who are both under pressure and he's trying to weasel his way out of not lynching Shinichi or himself by softly floating me as a potential lynch option
Then why don't you try to ask questions in order to figure him out
Also kind of want to see QH claim
If Shinichi or QH is at L-1 I will hammer them in order to stop what happened in Day 2
They're not mutually exclusive, man.
First option is lynching mafia. That's always the first option in any game any day. Second is lynching Shin, and considering all these votes on him, that does sound like a pretty damn relevant option. But since we can't be 100% sure he's mafia I can't put it up there lol. Hence why I said "Lynching mafia" is an impossible option.
Option selecting is fine, isn't it?
I specifically asked if any of you were fine with Proph. I don't need to convince you further, I've done what I could about that by underlining what I don't like about Proph. If you guys don't agree with it it's not the end of the world because your reads can have as much value as mine. But I'm gonna disagree with what I can disagree with and agree with what I can agree with. I get called out for having an 'agenda' one day and now I'm 'too cooperative' I guess? This disjointment is making me scummy, maybe? I'm not gonna camp a useless vote on Proph if I'm gonna get called out for "avoiding the heated lynches" like Shinichi's anyway. I don't need to put my vote on Proph to write to him and about him, you all should please stop with your "your vote is your only weapon" fallacy.
How am I defending any lynch, much less any town flip? You just said I'm apparently open to any lynch. Where did you get that I know Shinichi flips town? I don't particularly think he's a certain town.
If Shin flips town I'm doomed? I though people said it was the other way around lol.
I'm town and I'm not letting this jump on me succeed.
Plus, can you imagine if the scum team manages to keep Shin alive for LyLo? Town is lost.
I think it's fair to say that the Shinichi wagon has been stalled for a very long time, I'm not sure what's different here.
So yeah, Shin is either mafia, either mafia's tool towards a win.
Ah. I wrote that in a weird way. We can lynch mafia, OR we can lynch Shinichi who MIGHT be mafia.
I can't say what alignment this is coming from, but I agree with this post. Shinichi must go.
1. How do you feel about a Shinichi lynch? You say it's a "pretty relevant option" but you provide no insight as to whether you think he's scum or not. This feels like scum weighing a lynch option on their buddy, rather than actually committing a vote somewhere.
2. If you think that I am scum, why are you just putting out feelers for it? You weighing the option that I am scum and saying "if you guys disagree with it, that's fine" is not a town mindset. Townies would push and actively fight for a person that they want lynched, because they need to lynch scum in order to win the game. You putting out feelers just reads like you're trying to shade me.
What fallacy is this? Voting early and voting often is how you win games of mafia.
Don't particularly think he's a certain town? What?
Then start hunting baddies then because I don't see you doing it
who is mafia then
who are the baddies
You hammered Wheat when I was out on vacation hours before the deadline.
Him explicitly shading me, refusing to cast a vote, and refusing to vote/case me even though he says he thinks I am scum feels so much like scum trying to see if they can get any traction on me before casting their vote. Plus, the way that QH is refusing to vote for Shinichi even though he says that Shinichi is either scum or mafia's tool towards a win makes me think that he's trying to do damage control.
Their wagons should be tied, plus QH should probably claim.
I will, I just didn't want to leave my vote on AG or Proph pretty sure i changed it to him at some point.
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Your basically saying if your mafia why wouldn't you push for an obvious lynch, and honestly that answer is pretty simple. You know the lynch won't happen, scum would want to cause a mislynch not spending the entire day to fail at one. That is just my hypothesis and answer to your question. If I am wrong about that hypothesis then it would mean you are actually town.
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Should it really be considered white knighting? It's not like hes defending me at all, the people who are focusing me are the ones that will eventually drive themselves into a corner either that or town will actually lynch me. YOu also seemed pretty inclined not to lynch me until you finally snapped saying i had to be sorted out for the game to continue on. Which could obviously be a statement you want to hide behind incase i am mislynched.
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How are they T/T? Also who is the 1st sentence refering to for reference?
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I don't know how I am alive, but the fact that I am alive means people have doubts that I am scum, seeing as how I havent been anywhere close to being hammered during this phase. I already told you and others atleast 1 or 2 people who are ok voting me are scum. The people that are reluctant to hammer have to reasons why.
1.They are scum, which means they rather not hammer someone that will flip town
2.They are town, which means they have doubts about me flipping scum so they don't wanna hammer a mislynch.
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I do agree to this, if day 1 hadnt been a no lynch me dieing would have saved the game lots of trouble. Alas i am still alive though.
Vaimes do you think I am town?
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Well you have 2 options vote me cause i am scum or vote someone else that has been pressuing me because they're scum.
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Who is that last sentence refering too? As I would like to convince you of my reads, but alas I havent had the chance.
Forgot for a second that the lock needs less people whoopsie XD.
i know you said it was one of re/(el/jt) but you've made no effort to convince others of that fact. do you think you will get re lynched today based on how you are playing thus far?
what do you think about qh?
SO what about my case are you implying here?
is this clear? i can try to explain better when i am not on mobile
I am precious the Poodle
My role is Town Yapper
My ability is called Bark my head off: Each Day, before I've made my fifth post of the day, I can send a message of no more than 50 characters to the host via PM. The Host will post that message anonymously in the thread.
Thats why i was so confused on how you easily trust me here, leads me to believe something is up.
So your not willing to let town live to the entire game noted, there no way in hell ill have a night kill wasted on me at this point.
Really hoping my viewpoint of the gamestate is correct here and I'm not being hard pocketed by Grape/Vaimes/Terry/shadow.
Where is AtheistGod?
Well, when I did trust you, that was before I saw your other scum games. And I will try to avoid using meta from here on out, at least when town-clearing people.
I don't want to talk about that game. My reads were crap. Plus I skimmed through a little over 20 pages in one night, so I honestly don't remember much from it. But he was facing far less heat than in this game.
It was my impression that flavor and roles were handed out separately. Discuss. I'm mobile, so I can't do a ton into this today, but if some other peeps can consider this please look into it.