Where did i backtrack on vaimes i still town read him do i not?
The fact that you're asking this as a question for town to answer, when it's your opinion we're discussing, is hilarious to me.
You just called Vaimes "hit or miss" in #1109.
Is he not tho? Only scum could confirm his exact alignment so im confused at why i can't state something like that. I'm really only town reading vaimes from his behavior at the start of the game.
Grapefruit i am still iffy about, i'm always catious about his slot.
WHAT?
Your previous read on Grape was:
Quote from Shinichi »
Only 2 people im truly convinced have the highest chance of being town that would be vaimes and grapefruit. Shadow and AG seem to have the highest chance of being scum in my book.
Quote from Shinichi »
I made it clear i don't scum read grape so why would i include him with others. My bad on the phrasing, i should have stated that everyone but grape and vaimes set off alarm bells.
PLEASE explain this progression to me.
The second post you quoted also came literally 4 posts (all his mind you, save my V/LA post) after saying I was town too, and I pointed out then but it fell on deaf ears.
People, Shinichi is scum! Behaviorally with a side of mechanics to sharpen the noose. There is a difference between being flakey and forgetful and just making crap up as you go. His reads are made up.
Grapefruit, Vaimes, shadow are all pretty strongly town.
AG/Mind I think.
I agree on the vaimes and Grapefruit, a little on shadow, and i agree that the scum is prob between mind and AG. I mean ag it seems like he sheeped the vote more than anything.
Only 2 people im truly convinced have the highest chance of being town that would be vaimes and grapefruit. Shadow and AG seem to have the highest chance of being scum in my book.
What exactly changed in the last hour? The only post not by you between these was my OoG post, I do not believe you forget that easily, you're scum just making crap up as you go.
..and then Shinichi dodges the question by posting:
I'd rather Wheat be the first lynch out of these two given Shinichi's role, but if y'all prefer to get Shinichi and then Wheat, I can get behind that order, I guess.
Vote: Shinichi
I'm just kinda worried Wheat has Mafia-useful night effects, so lynching him first out of the two seems safer. It's highly unlikely that Shinchi has any such abilities given that he's already a Crier.
I think that Shinichi flipping reads is consistent with him being town based on how he's been playing so far. He's been very scatterbrained and I think if he was scum he'd be more careful to keep his reads consistent to avoid exactly this sort of pressure.
Reading the latest posts have been entertaining in a way that I don't think I can really articulate.
EternalLurker, please sign up for more games here so I can play with you.
I'm gonna be suuuuper annoyed if Shinichi is scum because we totally could have lynched him D1. Not gonna vote 'cause I can't recall the current votal.
The good news is that I didn't make any CoC violating drunk posts last night after the concert I went to (Mistborn players will get this, no one else).
The bad news is that I'm not feeling great today and reading this kind of makes my head hurt more.
I could get behind a Shin Lynch. I have a good thing to go back and check since I talked about the EOD1 stuff earlier. BRB
I dont scum read him tho, i'm just always keeping an eye on that slot not sure whats strange about that?
Why did you say he was "iffy"? "Iffy" is not a townread in my book.
Quote from Shinichi »
Where did i backtrack on vaimes i still town read him do i not?
You said:
Quote from Shinichi »
While I aint a fan of AG role claim nor who he chose to give the cop check too.
You aren't a fan of AG's claim, nor are you a fan of Vaimes. WHY are you not a fan of Vaimes? Especially since you said that you were townreading him.
U act like that is different than how i normally play, grapefruit isnt someone im sure of when i read him. His play is has been town consistent but ive been wrong about him before.
Not a fan of the claim nor the choice true, but not cause i scum read vaimes i just think grapefruit would have been a better choice.
Grapefruit, Vaimes, shadow are all pretty strongly town.
AG/Mind I think.
I agree on the vaimes and Grapefruit, a little on shadow, and i agree that the scum is prob between mind and AG. I mean ag it seems like he sheeped the vote more than anything.
Only 2 people im truly convinced have the highest chance of being town that would be vaimes and grapefruit. Shadow and AG seem to have the highest chance of being scum in my book.
What exactly changed in the last hour? The only post not by you between these was my OoG post, I do not believe you forget that easily, you're scum just making crap up as you go.
..and then Shinichi dodges the question by posting:
I think that Shinichi flipping reads is consistent with him being town based on how he's been playing so far. He's been very scatterbrained and I think if he was scum he'd be more careful to keep his reads consistent to avoid exactly this sort of pressure.
I won't be participating in a Shinichi lynch.
Sad that the person supporting me others also scum read, i wish grape or cross would notice this. Wheat has never even played with me before yet hes noticed the behavior.
I'd rather Wheat be the first lynch out of these two given Shinichi's role, but if y'all prefer to get Shinichi and then Wheat, I can get behind that order, I guess.
Vote: Shinichi
I'm just kinda worried Wheat has Mafia-useful night effects, so lynching him first out of the two seems safer. It's highly unlikely that Shinchi has any such abilities given that he's already a Crier.
Your right on 1 part i don't have any other abilities but i aint mafia, and i rather prevent a mislynch. Also worried that if wheat actually his mafia i will be lynched next regardless of any sort of interaction.
"inconsistency is Townie and consistency is scummy"
man, reading Wheat's posts is always so entertaining
That should be solved case by case.
The Town gathers evidence and uses it logically to draw coherent conclusions.
The Mafia has an agenda and twists facts as necessary in order to achieve the lynches it wants.
Consistency is Townie. Inconsistency is scummy. Deviations from this are poor play and should not be rewarded with free-pass Town-reads; I don't do derp-clears. Mistakes certainly happen occasionally, but when they're happening constantly in spite of people repeatedly warning you about them throughout the thread, I don't buy it. Throughout the game thus far, you've played like you're making up reads as you go along in order to force your narrative, rather than having any actual interest in scum-hunting or Town-hunting.
So Wheat is going for a Seppel scumstyle. Still 100% scum.
Care to explain that for those of us who don't know Seppel?
And yes, I agree that Wheat is the better option. Agree enough, in fact, that I'ma go back to where I was before peer pressure...Vote: Wheat_Grinder. I'll definitely help push/hammer a Shin lynch if we get close to deadline and Wheat's not happening, but I'd really prefer making WG today's priority.
Vacation is now semi over and I'll be more involved after today. Haven't flown home, but going to have consistent wifi at least!
Anyway full catch up to come tonight or tomorrow, but in the mean time....
Vote: Shinichi
Shin I've played with you before and I know you're evasive and like to play devil's advocate and don't like to lock yourself in, but this is another level. It's so far removed from what I consider your normal game that I've stopped considering meta. Maybe you're town and just don't have any footing with the longer phases. That's a possibility, but it seems much more likely to me that you just are scum and are making it up as you go.
So Wheat is going for a Seppel scumstyle. Still 100% scum.
Care to explain that for those of us who don't know Seppel?
And yes, I agree that Wheat is the better option. Agree enough, in fact, that I'ma go back to where I was before peer pressure...Vote: Wheat_Grinder. I'll definitely help push/hammer a Shin lynch if we get close to deadline and Wheat's not happening, but I'd really prefer making WG today's priority.
His posting here could be copy-pasted from a game of scum.Seppel.
What is the difference between my normal town game and this one in regards to your first two points?
No clue. I don't remember how you play.
Less scummy than this game I can only assume.
He's trying to use ignorance as a defense for pushing a case built off easy "scum-tells" without caring about intent. He's going for low-hanging fruit and hoping repetition gets him there.
So Wheat is going for a Seppel scumstyle. Still 100% scum.
I'm good with a Shinichi lynch, 2nd best option after WG.
Why didn't you want to lynch shin day 1?
I felt it'd be more obvious whether he's town or scum going forward than it'd be for either Rhand or kpaca. I had that town ping and wanted to let Shinichi prove himself. He failed at proving his towniness, but I don't have that much issue with giving him the chance.
No. This is not happening. I am not supporting a Wheat lynch, and I am not going to let my townreads be lynched AGAIN, like in my Champs game.
Even though my townread on Wheat is not as strong as some others like Grape/Vaimes/JT, gun to my head I still think he is town. I don't see why scum!Wheat doesn't move to the Shinichi wagon when it is readily available for him, and we have QH and AG leading Wheat's wagon. Those two players are both in my PoE list.
I admit that I am a little curious about Wheat's alignment, and of course I will eat crow if I am wrong, but I am not liking the votes on Wheat and I will put my foot down to make sure that lynch doesn't happen.
U act like that is different than how i normally play, grapefruit isnt someone im sure of when i read him. His play is has been town consistent but ive been wrong about him before.
Why do you say he is iffy, though? You still haven't answered that question.
Also escape hatch attempt is noted.
Quote from Shinichi »
Sad that the person supporting me others also scum read, i wish grape or cross would notice this. Wheat has never even played with me before yet hes noticed the behavior.
Dude, if you're town, then I WANT to notice that. It's just that every time you post I don't understand how you come to the reads you've gotten. You take a stance and then a couple posts later you reverse it, and it just reads as incredibly opportunistic to me.
Like, look at 1154. You say that you agree with my shadow townread "a little" and then you say "Shadow and AG seem to have the highest chance of being scum in my book". HOW DOES THAT WORK? WHY DO YOU THINK THAT?
And like:
Quote from Shinichi »
Only 2 people im truly convinced have the highest chance of being town that would be vaimes and grapefruit.
Quote from Shinichi »
]U act like that is different than how i normally play, grapefruit isnt someone im sure of when i read him. His play is has been town consistent but ive been wrong about him before.
How do you go from "you're truly convinced have the highest chance of being town" to "I'm not sure about Grapefruit, I've been wrong about him before". It feels like you're setting up the stage to push Grapefruit late-game.
Also if Shinichi flips scum, then Wheat is probably cleared. I don't think Wheat is the type of guy who blatantly power wolfs just as his buddy is receiving a lot of pressure.
I've had 2 town pings from shinichi, but with how all over the place he is 2 slight town pings doesn't really hold up.
Can you explain what those town pings are? I have had similar moments of doubt with regards to Shinichi but I /need/ answers to my questions.
The fact that you are comfortable with the consensus scumreads kind of skeeves me out. Do you have any spicier scum reads? (spicy = someone who is generally townread but you think might be scum)
I forget what the day 1 ping was, although I could go back to find it; more recently he seemed to legitimately think his role is too strong for scum, which is going to be harder for a scum to pull off since they have evidence it's not.
Prior to the trap, I was worried about Terry. Shadow has been feeling off.
Vaimes, Grapefruit, and Terry are the only people I'm not at least somewhat suspicious of, although Eternal Lurker is working his way towards that pile.
Could you explain why you view Wheat's actions as towny? Not jumping from one wagon to another doesn't seem too impressive to me.
Bad vibes from Grapefruit.
Pretty sure Wheat is scum.
I feel like his play is more like "people scumread me for Reason X, but I'm gonna keep playing it out as if Reason X is a perfectly reasonable townie behavior coming from me."
Can you try to find the Day 1 ping for me? You raise a decent point about the "role is too strong for scum thing", though. I hadn't considered that.
As for why I think Wheat is town, did you take a look at my ISO? I admit, once again, that it's not my most confident townread by a long mile, but I'm not letting my townreads be lynched again. In particular I have a hard time of him going "aaaaaaah hahaha i love being right" to Vaimes when Vaimes is voting him.
Can you try to find the Day 1 ping for me? You raise a decent point about the "role is too strong for scum thing", though. I hadn't considered that.
As for why I think Wheat is town, did you take a look at my ISO? I admit, once again, that it's not my most confident townread by a long mile, but I'm not letting my townreads be lynched again. In particular I have a hard time of him going "aaaaaaah hahaha i love being right" to Vaimes when Vaimes is voting him.
Why do you think shadow is off?
That bolded is something Wheat does all the time as scum. That makes me scum-read him more, not less.
Shadow is very subdued. It's not quite either his town meta nor his scum meta, but is closer to his scum meta.
That bolded is something Wheat does all the time as scum. That makes me scum-read him more, not less.
Can you pull up actual quotes for me substantiating this? Especially since you said:
Quote from AG »
I'm torn on WG. QH's case is really good (huge townpoints) but I can't get past my metaread of Wheat. I'll check some of Wheat's scumgames I haven't played in to see if he's played like this as scum before.
we have QH and AG leading Wheat's wagon. Those two players are both in my PoE list.
Well, take them out already, then? QH already explained why AG is probably not scum. (It's not a lock as he describes, because scum certainly can give the ability to non-scum for Town cred, but it's a strong reason to Town-read in the absence of other evidence.)
Also if Shinichi flips scum, then Wheat is probably cleared. I don't think Wheat is the type of guy who blatantly power wolfs just as his buddy is receiving a lot of pressure.
...Okay, this is just bull*****. If Shinichi flips Town, Wheat is cleared because he was protecting a Townie, and if Shinichi is scum, Wheat is cleared because, yet again, you claim "that would be TOO SCUMMY FOR SCUM". You're just protecting Wheat under every outcome. No. Stop with that *****. "Too scummy for scum" is not a ******* thing.
As Grapefruit discussed, the trap leads to an RE Town-read because of RE's willingness to go along with it despite her reservations about Terry in general. I do not buy this argument that it clears Terry. I'm Town-reading Terry at the moment, but the trap has nothing to do with that assessment.
Proph, what's your general stance on powerwolfing a buddy under a lot of pressure? Cause your flip on shin, while great, kinda looks like a "cut my losses" bus. I've liked your posts today significantly, but I still feel like your slot is >rand scum.
Eternal, I'm confused, what does Rhand dying have to do with me at all?
@shadowlancerx: Mostly this post, in which you are one of the few arguing against a Rhand lynch, but decide not to provide actual reasons for doing so. In my experience, this is a fairly common scum tactic on Day One (when scum can still afford a No Lynch instead of a mislynch): block a growing wagon to defend a Townie, kill that Townie to prove he wasn't scum at all, and thus gain Town cred. Obviously you could've just been legitimately defending Rhand, and that'd be perfectly fine, but your lack of evidence in fighting the wagon raised alarm flags for me when Rhand was the night kill immediately afterwards.
There are two main problems with this, though:
1) No one else actually noticed this or gave you any Town cred for it. Could've been a failed plan, but it seems like that's just not a play people bother doing in this forum, and as an experienced player here you'd know that, so it doesn't seem like that was what happened.
2) As others have pointed out, the better reason for Rhand to be night-killed was that he had soft-claimed being a power role. I hadn't even considered that because, as I noted, I'm just not accustomed to games with any vanilla roles at all (which I guess you'd call Role Madness); I thought he was simply hinting at what specifically he would claim, not at the idea that he'd have anything to claim in the first place.
So I'm mostly Town-reading you at the moment, but Rhand's death is always gonna be ringing soft alarms in my head whenever I read your posts, due to my past biases. Sorry. I'll try to ignore them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On this subject of Rhand claiming PR and then being night-killed...Now that I've put myself into the mindset of non-Role-Madness games, this makes me even more convinced that we need to prioritize Wheat over Shinichi for today. If Rhand claimed PR and the wagon dissipated, clearly multiple Townies believed his soft-claim. This could have included potential protective roles such as a Doctor. The fact that the Mafia felt it was worthwhile to target Rhand immediately in spite of the likelihood that he'd be healed makes me believe that they have a Strongman. Shinichi, already being a Crier, probably wouldn't be the Strongman as well, so if it comes down to Wheat or Shinichi today I'd really like to get rid of the former, as he's more likely to have a useful Mafia night effect.
Proph is the only person making any sense (he at least smells that something is wrong) and yet people are flocking to the arguments that put Proph as scum
AGod has pretty much escaped from any pressure
Shinichi is still being scumread
No one will even bat an eye at Vaimes
everything is backwards and I don't even think flips proving the above to be false will turn the ship around.
If it would make you less concerned going forward, I told Grape the reason I was defending him in our chat overnight, so he can confirm this, but scum!Rhand is looser on mechanical analysis than town!rhand. Yesterday he felt very mechanical with his approach to the serial killer discussion, which gave me those town vibes. This is part of why I suspected and "caught" (couldn't actually get him lynched but knew he was scum) him in another game, he was wishy washy when there was a pretty solid mechanical divide.
Wheat: one of the reasons I'm not looking twice at Vaimes is because he is very easy to catch as scum in later days. And while he's not been completely connected, real life reasons have me content to let him be at the present.
Can you go into depth for me some about Shinichi, like do you think he's just TSTBS or what, because he's literally changing stances post by post. He's self admitted to a bad memory, but I feel like that would hurt him more as scum, causing him to forget the read he made up and change it, where as town!shinichi might forget what he's said, but should Coke to the same conclusion he did before.
@eternal, I forget if you've said or not already, but do you feel like a crier and a neighborizor are mechanically dissonant? Because if so, I feel like that's a significantly better reason to lynch Shinichi over Wheat.
Actually a thought just came to my mind...I'm going to try and phrase this so you understand without saying too much: You feel strongly about wheat needing to be a priority, is your reason more speculative than it is grounded? Because if it's grounded I am willing to trust you on this one. If you don't understand what I'm asking, then never mind, I don't want to say more.
Proph, what's your general stance on powerwolfing a buddy under a lot of pressure? Cause your flip on shin, while great, kinda looks like a "cut my losses" bus. I've liked your posts today significantly, but I still feel like your slot is >rand scum.
I've been...null on Proph's posts today, until the recent ones.
I don't see why scum!Wheat doesn't move to the Shinichi wagon when it is readily available for him
Here he argues that Wheat can't be scum if Shinichi is Town. It's a completely nonsensical argument because the Shinichi wagon isn't available for Wheat. Wheat spent much of Day One defending Shinichi. To turn around suddenly with no reason would make it clear he's just jumping on wagons rather than having actual reads, and he'd be lynched in a heartbeat.
Also if Shinichi flips scum, then Wheat is probably cleared. I don't think Wheat is the type of guy who blatantly power wolfs just as his buddy is receiving a lot of pressure.
Here he claims that Wheat can't be scum if Shinichi is Mafia. Again, this is the "TOO SCUMMY FOR SCUM" non-argument.
Both hypothetical defenses of Wheat are kind of total trash here.
I still haven't seen anything to make me doubt my WG+Shin+Proph scum-team read. This feels like Proph having to choose one of his two scum-buddies to save, upon recognizing that there's no way he'll keep them both alive today.
Also if Shinichi flips scum, then Wheat is probably cleared. I don't think Wheat is the type of guy who blatantly power wolfs just as his buddy is receiving a lot of pressure.
Here he claims that Wheat can't be scum if Shinichi is Mafia. Again, this is the "TOO SCUMMY FOR SCUM" non-argument.
Both hypothetical defenses of Wheat are kind of total trash here.
I still haven't seen anything to make me doubt my WG+Shin+Proph scum-team read. This feels like Proph having to choose one of his two scum-buddies to save, upon recognizing that there's no way he'll keep them both alive today.
I read the above as more of a meta read on Wheat than a TSTBS read, but I see your point. The posts from proph that I liked were more for the time and effort he actually put into them, shin flipping scum (and if you're spot on here wheat as well) would be a nail in the proph coffin.
Is he not tho? Only scum could confirm his exact alignment so im confused at why i can't state something like that. I'm really only town reading vaimes from his behavior at the start of the game.
People, Shinichi is scum! Behaviorally with a side of mechanics to sharpen the noose. There is a difference between being flakey and forgetful and just making crap up as you go. His reads are made up.
You said:
You aren't a fan of AG's claim, nor are you a fan of Vaimes. WHY are you not a fan of Vaimes? Especially since you said that you were townreading him.
..and then Shinichi dodges the question by posting:
I NEED these unexplained reads changes addressed.
Vote: Shinichi
I'm just kinda worried Wheat has Mafia-useful night effects, so lynching him first out of the two seems safer. It's highly unlikely that Shinchi has any such abilities given that he's already a Crier.
I think that Shinichi flipping reads is consistent with him being town based on how he's been playing so far. He's been very scatterbrained and I think if he was scum he'd be more careful to keep his reads consistent to avoid exactly this sort of pressure.
I won't be participating in a Shinichi lynch.
man, reading Wheat's posts is always so entertaining
EternalLurker, please sign up for more games here so I can play with you.
I'm gonna be suuuuper annoyed if Shinichi is scum because we totally could have lynched him D1. Not gonna vote 'cause I can't recall the current votal.
I should have my wifi back by tomorrow morning.
The good news is that I didn't make any CoC violating drunk posts last night after the concert I went to (Mistborn players will get this, no one else).
The bad news is that I'm not feeling great today and reading this kind of makes my head hurt more.
I could get behind a Shin Lynch. I have a good thing to go back and check since I talked about the EOD1 stuff earlier. BRB
I want to have Shinichi reply to my recent questions.
I'm good with a Shinichi lynch, 2nd best option after WG.
U act like that is different than how i normally play, grapefruit isnt someone im sure of when i read him. His play is has been town consistent but ive been wrong about him before.
Not a fan of the claim nor the choice true, but not cause i scum read vaimes i just think grapefruit would have been a better choice.
Which ones?
Ill explain them all in detail
That should be solved case by case.
Sad that the person supporting me others also scum read, i wish grape or cross would notice this. Wheat has never even played with me before yet hes noticed the behavior.
Your right on 1 part i don't have any other abilities but i aint mafia, and i rather prevent a mislynch. Also worried that if wheat actually his mafia i will be lynched next regardless of any sort of interaction.
The Mafia has an agenda and twists facts as necessary in order to achieve the lynches it wants.
Consistency is Townie. Inconsistency is scummy. Deviations from this are poor play and should not be rewarded with free-pass Town-reads; I don't do derp-clears. Mistakes certainly happen occasionally, but when they're happening constantly in spite of people repeatedly warning you about them throughout the thread, I don't buy it. Throughout the game thus far, you've played like you're making up reads as you go along in order to force your narrative, rather than having any actual interest in scum-hunting or Town-hunting.
And yes, I agree that Wheat is the better option. Agree enough, in fact, that I'ma go back to where I was before peer pressure...Vote: Wheat_Grinder. I'll definitely help push/hammer a Shin lynch if we get close to deadline and Wheat's not happening, but I'd really prefer making WG today's priority.
Anyway full catch up to come tonight or tomorrow, but in the mean time....
Vote: Shinichi
Shin I've played with you before and I know you're evasive and like to play devil's advocate and don't like to lock yourself in, but this is another level. It's so far removed from what I consider your normal game that I've stopped considering meta. Maybe you're town and just don't have any footing with the longer phases. That's a possibility, but it seems much more likely to me that you just are scum and are making it up as you go.
Unvote, vote WG
you piiiiiigs in human clothing
---
i guess no one else came here yesterday either
hint: he's scum
His posting here could be copy-pasted from a game of scum.Seppel.
He's trying to use ignorance as a defense for pushing a case built off easy "scum-tells" without caring about intent. He's going for low-hanging fruit and hoping repetition gets him there.
I felt it'd be more obvious whether he's town or scum going forward than it'd be for either Rhand or kpaca. I had that town ping and wanted to let Shinichi prove himself. He failed at proving his towniness, but I don't have that much issue with giving him the chance.
Even though my townread on Wheat is not as strong as some others like Grape/Vaimes/JT, gun to my head I still think he is town. I don't see why scum!Wheat doesn't move to the Shinichi wagon when it is readily available for him, and we have QH and AG leading Wheat's wagon. Those two players are both in my PoE list.
I admit that I am a little curious about Wheat's alignment, and of course I will eat crow if I am wrong, but I am not liking the votes on Wheat and I will put my foot down to make sure that lynch doesn't happen.
Also escape hatch attempt is noted.
Dude, if you're town, then I WANT to notice that. It's just that every time you post I don't understand how you come to the reads you've gotten. You take a stance and then a couple posts later you reverse it, and it just reads as incredibly opportunistic to me.
Like, look at 1154. You say that you agree with my shadow townread "a little" and then you say "Shadow and AG seem to have the highest chance of being scum in my book". HOW DOES THAT WORK? WHY DO YOU THINK THAT?
And like:
How do you go from "you're truly convinced have the highest chance of being town" to "I'm not sure about Grapefruit, I've been wrong about him before". It feels like you're setting up the stage to push Grapefruit late-game.
GUN TO HEAD IS TOWN: RE, shadow, Wheat, EL?
PoE: Shinichi, AG, QH
This does not feel right for some reason.
I'm probably gonna try and reread this game at Night, since I have a feeling that someone is pocketing me and I'm not sure who.
I support anyone in the PoE dying and will fight lynches on the top seven.
The fact that you are comfortable with the consensus scumreads kind of skeeves me out. Do you have any spicier scum reads? (spicy = someone who is generally townread but you think might be scum)
Prior to the trap, I was worried about Terry. Shadow has been feeling off.
Vaimes, Grapefruit, and Terry are the only people I'm not at least somewhat suspicious of, although Eternal Lurker is working his way towards that pile.
Could you explain why you view Wheat's actions as towny? Not jumping from one wagon to another doesn't seem too impressive to me.
Bad vibes from Grapefruit.
Pretty sure Wheat is scum.
I feel like his play is more like "people scumread me for Reason X, but I'm gonna keep playing it out as if Reason X is a perfectly reasonable townie behavior coming from me."
As for why I think Wheat is town, did you take a look at my ISO? I admit, once again, that it's not my most confident townread by a long mile, but I'm not letting my townreads be lynched again. In particular I have a hard time of him going "aaaaaaah hahaha i love being right" to Vaimes when Vaimes is voting him.
Why do you think shadow is off?
That bolded is something Wheat does all the time as scum. That makes me scum-read him more, not less.
Shadow is very subdued. It's not quite either his town meta nor his scum meta, but is closer to his scum meta.
Can you pull up actual quotes for me substantiating this? Especially since you said:
Well, take them out already, then? QH already explained why AG is probably not scum. (It's not a lock as he describes, because scum certainly can give the ability to non-scum for Town cred, but it's a strong reason to Town-read in the absence of other evidence.) ...Okay, this is just bull*****. If Shinichi flips Town, Wheat is cleared because he was protecting a Townie, and if Shinichi is scum, Wheat is cleared because, yet again, you claim "that would be TOO SCUMMY FOR SCUM". You're just protecting Wheat under every outcome. No. Stop with that *****. "Too scummy for scum" is not a ******* thing. As Grapefruit discussed, the trap leads to an RE Town-read because of RE's willingness to go along with it despite her reservations about Terry in general. I do not buy this argument that it clears Terry. I'm Town-reading Terry at the moment, but the trap has nothing to do with that assessment. I don't do meta, but I have been a little worried about Shadow today, mostly because Rhand as the night-kill seemed an attempt to Town-clear him.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So, yeah, WG + Proph looking even more solid than before, what with that completely bull***** #1179 post.
Wanna start giving reasons for your votes, please? (-.-)
baa baa baa
The RE vote was purely "my reads are iffy, I don't know the formal, let me
put my vote somewhere because abstaining is awful."
Kinda lost touch with this game when I lost my wifi for several days. I'll get back into things in a bit.
Eternal, I'm confused, what does Rhand dying have to do with me at all?
There are two main problems with this, though:
1) No one else actually noticed this or gave you any Town cred for it. Could've been a failed plan, but it seems like that's just not a play people bother doing in this forum, and as an experienced player here you'd know that, so it doesn't seem like that was what happened.
2) As others have pointed out, the better reason for Rhand to be night-killed was that he had soft-claimed being a power role. I hadn't even considered that because, as I noted, I'm just not accustomed to games with any vanilla roles at all (which I guess you'd call Role Madness); I thought he was simply hinting at what specifically he would claim, not at the idea that he'd have anything to claim in the first place.
So I'm mostly Town-reading you at the moment, but Rhand's death is always gonna be ringing soft alarms in my head whenever I read your posts, due to my past biases. Sorry. I'll try to ignore them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On this subject of Rhand claiming PR and then being night-killed...Now that I've put myself into the mindset of non-Role-Madness games, this makes me even more convinced that we need to prioritize Wheat over Shinichi for today. If Rhand claimed PR and the wagon dissipated, clearly multiple Townies believed his soft-claim. This could have included potential protective roles such as a Doctor. The fact that the Mafia felt it was worthwhile to target Rhand immediately in spite of the likelihood that he'd be healed makes me believe that they have a Strongman. Shinichi, already being a Crier, probably wouldn't be the Strongman as well, so if it comes down to Wheat or Shinichi today I'd really like to get rid of the former, as he's more likely to have a useful Mafia night effect.
Proph is the only person making any sense (he at least smells that something is wrong) and yet people are flocking to the arguments that put Proph as scum
AGod has pretty much escaped from any pressure
Shinichi is still being scumread
No one will even bat an eye at Vaimes
everything is backwards and I don't even think flips proving the above to be false will turn the ship around.
Can you go into depth for me some about Shinichi, like do you think he's just TSTBS or what, because he's literally changing stances post by post. He's self admitted to a bad memory, but I feel like that would hurt him more as scum, causing him to forget the read he made up and change it, where as town!shinichi might forget what he's said, but should Coke to the same conclusion he did before.
Actually a thought just came to my mind...I'm going to try and phrase this so you understand without saying too much: You feel strongly about wheat needing to be a priority, is your reason more speculative than it is grounded? Because if it's grounded I am willing to trust you on this one. If you don't understand what I'm asking, then never mind, I don't want to say more.
Here he argues that Wheat can't be scum if Shinichi is Town. It's a completely nonsensical argument because the Shinichi wagon isn't available for Wheat. Wheat spent much of Day One defending Shinichi. To turn around suddenly with no reason would make it clear he's just jumping on wagons rather than having actual reads, and he'd be lynched in a heartbeat. Here he claims that Wheat can't be scum if Shinichi is Mafia. Again, this is the "TOO SCUMMY FOR SCUM" non-argument.
Both hypothetical defenses of Wheat are kind of total trash here.
I still haven't seen anything to make me doubt my WG+Shin+Proph scum-team read. This feels like Proph having to choose one of his two scum-buddies to save, upon recognizing that there's no way he'll keep them both alive today.