Okay so we're getting close enough to the deadline 29th from memory, and have a clear enough lynch pool that people who don't want one of Kpaca, AG, Shinichi, or Rhand lynched should start being very clear as to why.
I'm in a spot where 3 of those feel like shrug lynched and the other just replaced.
If we're going to lynch one of Terry v RE (which I don't want to do) I'm always going for Terry.
I'm never lynching Mind or Vaimes.
I don't want to lynch QH or Shadow, but that is largely based on bias and not this game. Plus I still haven't read QH's big post with spoilers... Next week I'll have access to a laptop again.
As for Wheat I don't know what to make of them. The level of gung-ho on vaimes strikes me the same way Mind talked about Terry. But unlike Terry I don't have anything giving me town vibes.
TLDR:
Want to lynch: Kpaca (for being Kpaca but not really doing anything even more so)
Shinichi (for dodging a ton of questions and doing some heavy FUD'ing)
AG (as a compromise lynch only, for being very absent)
Rhand (for Roger running an aggressive discrediting style while largely not commiting to views of his own)
Willing to be persuaded into anyone else but Vaimes or Mind.
Which lynch are you talking about? You're voting Shadow best I can tell by yourself, but I have a feeling you're not talking about that one.
Sorry, I mean the kpaca lynch.
I don't particularly hate it, but I'm not really liking it.
It's a mix of - how AtheistGod voted him, - how the votes slowly started to pile up on him for reasons akin to why people would vote AG, - how kpaca looks like a relatively easy mislynch because of his behavior, - and how shortly after Terry's vote on him the thread went silent for about 15 hours only to be revived by you who, as if to find some secure ground, is asking everyone to vote for one of kpaca, AG, Shinichi, or Rhand unless good reasons are given.
Suppose you and Vaimes are mafia, or perhaps you and AG, or perhaps only you. There's the fact that AG's game activity is very similar to kpaca's. And with this comes the fact that AG voted kpaca but kpaca didn't vote AG. kpaca's slot seems to me here like a wonderful spot for mafia to go to.
I didn't particularly scumread you until your #451, and I'm not sure I even do now, because I'd like to think that you're trying to get things organized for town, and that the scum's votes are more scattered than this (following my previous suspicions, that'd be shadowlx on Shinichi, WG on Vaimes (in which case I'm not sure why kpaca would have followed him on that wagon if he was scum with him), and the third one who knows).
With all this, I'm not sure if AG is scum being spared by his teammates in favor of a kpaca lynch, or if AG is town whose vote is being used to build on kpaca because building on kpaca became easier than building on AG, or if kpaca scum is genuinely caught.
If someone could point me to something that differentiates kpaca and AG's approach to the current game by a decently long shot (from how I see it, both come in and out by posting brief reads in the same way, only kpaca is slightly more brutal (?)), that'd make things more understandable for me. I remember reading that AG was once mislynched as he had a similar posting style, but I also remember reading that the kpaca we're getting is a typical kpaca.
Seriously bad feeling about Grapefruit. Rhand hasn't done much. My scumread of WG may just be a result of different playstyles, either way, apparently nobody else wants to lynch him. Quickhoodies is now town to me, I agree very much with #454. It's troubling that nobody is actually asking kpaca to give reads or be more active (as far as I can remember), although that's mainly kpaca's fault.
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Forgetting what you write in a forum that actually allows proper isoing seems odd but maybe that's just me, as scum u should be wary of what you write so the fact that you forget seems more town telling than scum.
I can't really say for sure why I am always scum read, I think vaimes already picked up on one of the reasons lol. It may be coupled with the fact that when i first started playing mafia, I was scum 4 times in a row so many people found it easy to read me. Why do you think people always scum read based on my posts in this game alone?
2 Biggest problems I have
1.Bad Memory so i tend to contradict myself.
2.I'm really bad at building cases and explaining my reads.
At first I actually liked Shinichi's reply here about his biggest problems, but as I was looking back, I came across the previous post, where he talks about it being odd for someone to forget what they wrote. And then he declares it to be a more townie thing than a scum thing, which reads to me as a subtle "I'm being townie guys!"
@Shinichi: if that is one of your biggest problems, why would you find it weird that someone else did the same thing?
@Mind: He used too many words and still didn't really convey what he meant, but I like where his pressure was.
Can you explain me why you're voting him / me?
That pretty much sums up why I'm voting him/you. Well minus the pressure part. Didn't care for that much either. That said I'll give you a chance to work and try this in the mean time.
Vote: Kpaca
FYI still not fully caught up. Will try to keep up but playing while traveling sucks.
Grapefruit, talk to me about your vote here, it seems out of place and just kind of thrown into the middle of your post. What was your thought process in this post?
I'm all caught up, and uhhh I don't really have anything to add, plus my previous post is mostly unanswered. Terry VS RE1031 looks town but 1: I've never seen RE1031 being this flustered, and 2: I think I get what Grape means when he's saying he feels like Terry could be scum.
Shadow hasn't added much so my scumread on him feels crappy but it hasn't changed and I don't see why it would have.
Two things for you. One, yeah, my activity hasn't been great, I've been disconnected, real life has made it hard to get into this game, and I'm working on it. Two, your scum read on me in the first place was hot garbage, like from your big post I'm not even entirely sure why you're scum reading me. You talk about my "pragmatic" questions that have already been talked about and I've gone over the reasoning, then you spend the rest of your spoilers post talking about everyone else and come back at the end to vote me. I was planning on just ignoring it, but I'm not sure anyone else even read your big post because no one else even questioned you on this, and it was really strange. If my activity level is what's giving you pause, fine, I'll be fixing that.
You have posted a lot, but upon reflection I was having a tough time remembering anything you've said; maybe it's me, but for someone to post a significant amount and not make an impression is strange to me.
Yeah, that's probably you. I wouldn't scumread someone for the reason that I can't remember what he has posted, this seems somewhat selfish, and I would actually reread their posts instead. Unless you mean something like "nothing he has posted really had any impact," in which case I can definitely follow your logic.
Definitely a case of low impact posting. Where did you get from there that I was scumreading RE1031 for this though?
I'm not interested in lynching Terry yet, mainly because I would say that Rhand is probably the safest lynch for today. Will never get over that unexplained flavor slip until I see a flip. If I don't see WG getting lynched today, then I'll probably switch to Rhand.
Not interested in lynching Terry "Yet"? Why do you want to go for a safe lynch, and what makes a Rhand lynch safe in your mind? Also, what is the flavor slip you're referring to?I want to lynch Shinichi/kpaca, and since kpaca already has a wagon: unvote, Vote kpaca I believe that's 5, you should claim.
Anyone else today seems like a bad idea, because I'm pretty sure those two are just scum.
@QH: The difference to me for kpaca and AG is the specific interactions and reads between kpaca and Shinichi feel incredibly scum v scum.Grapefruit, here is the contents of QH's spoilered post:
Okay, I'm done with page 6 and my eyelids feel heavier than osmium so I'll stop here. My reads are starting to take some shape, or so I'd like to believe anyway. I'll insert this one in a spoiler tag to not give you a massive headache each time you scroll around here, because this is one of the good ol' Quickhoodies posts where I type up my comments on various stuff..
Spoiler:
I'm actually surprised no one negatively called me out for my long post (108). I was expecting something like "you're overexplaining to Mindreaver what your posts were about. Well, I guess Mindreaver did call me out, following up on his push on me.
but I'm not going to do what AG just did, and come in, say "vaimes and grape, shadow too, wooooooo".
That post of AG rubs me the wrong way, now that you made me think about it. I do my best to not confuse him with Vaimes, those darn images... Anyway, people have been calling on Shin for not explaining his read but not on AG.
I was specifically referring to your post #27, subsection 3. Lol. Where you talked about stuff you obviously were making up and then made a joke about it. I don't know you well enough, but basing reads(?) on stuf you know is dubious and then saying that you know what you're doing is dubious, makes YOU even more dubious. But it might just be your posting style.
So why the worry that you're going to get lynched over the length of your posts? Cause Grape agreed? You seem antsy.
Well darn, sorry for not understanding what you were specifically referring to. You just said my post was too long for what it was worth, I thought you might include my other posts as well in that thinking. I thought it was unfair to say it was about literally nothing. 'but basing reads(?) on stuf you know is dubious'
Sorry (seriously sorry) but I don't even know where you're coming from with this. I'll try something? I didn't know my post was dubious when I posted it, and would have never known about it if you didn't tell me you thought it was dubious. When I was explaining the post to you, I did it under the assumption that it felt like a dubious post because that's what you marked it off as. So I explained why you shouldn't think it's dubious... makes sense?
And I'm not truly worried to get lynched over that. I guess you're right when you say I'm worried about Grape agreeing, though. Never feels good to get punched from two sides. I think Grape doesn't shy off from agreeing with people, and if he feels strongly about things then that makes me feel better. (well hey, #125 is an example of this)
Why do you believe Shinichi couldn't answer the question?
'Wouuld help if tell me what you didn't like unless you expect me to have mind reading powers lol.' (#40)
He says he's missing info to answer it. Anyone who was to take his place there technically could have answered the question but Shin felt like he couldn't. He even lol'd because of how obvious he thought the fact that he can't answer the question was.
I guess it was confusing because I lumped both together, but the question I didn't think was townie was the "why all the pragmatics based questions" part. I actually really liked the question they quoted there and gave me town vibes on Shadow. I did not like the dismissive response to it. Showed that lack of game solving intent that so often comes from scum.
I didn't like shadow's question(s), so I agree with RE1031: Grape, my man, you know that's what I was implying with my 'pragmatics' comeback. I'm not solving the game, I'm saying shadow's questions are out of this world. And I didn't need to question him about his questions because that wouldn't be relevant to my point.
I knew WG was gonna scumread me at some point based on how he treated me in that silly cult mini, so I'd probably be sketched out if he were townreading me early on.
I don't know about that game, but it feels to me like you're brushing off WG's vote on you as 'something that was expected to happen.' I'm not sure you get what I'm saying but it's like you're telling everyone that WG's vote holds no real weight.
Honestly this prob silly but this post alone gives huge town vibes, because he instead of skipping rvs actually incorporated it into his first post while also leaving it.
Honestly we've all expressed our thoughts on Terry's entrance and we've all said it looks good so no it's not silly just parrot-y. Dun dun dunnn.
Hey, somehow I could guess he was Astros. His entrance was in the style of good old Astros (what with the long post after a couple of days), so I feel good about it. Too bad I've never seen him play scum.
If anything it gives me a slight scum read of shadow a very small one at that tho, because asking questions to push the thread is not something scum would necessarily would do, but the would do it to try to create fasle accusations.
Creating false accusations sounds like something scum would do, so you're kind of contradicting yourself, but I do get your point. All things said, Shadow's question felt scummy to me because of this.
Nobody townreads Shinichi that early. Nobody townreads Shinichi unless they've played with him before. Even if they've played with him before, they don't townread him. It doesn't matter much to me atm if Shinichi is town or scum, only that that's a read I can't buy. To top it off, I don't think I've read any justification behind the read. Yes, I'm sheeping a bit.
I got town vibes from Shinichi in the first pages. Fight me. Looking at kpaca's posting style I didn't even take his read on Shin seriously though, lol.
QH is more of a shrugread. I think it'd be weird for scum to be accused of making large empty posts, by responding to that accusation with an even bigger wallpost going over his own past posts to make a point. Reads more as towny defiance/snark.
So if I'm scum I don't think carefully about what I'm doing and if I'm town I'm a prickly bastard, is what you're saying? I'm not sure how to feel about this but I think I like your line of thinking.
As it stands, there is nothing ruling out you two being on the mafia team together. There's a small link re: kpaca townreading you for reasons that are nonexistent or flimsy.
Mmh, from my (completely reliable!) experience, those kinds of super early townreads are more often made by scum to protect town, not by scum to protect scum. So yeah, that defense by kpaca looked too obvious to come from scum protecting scum, I'm not sure why he would have singled out his scum partner like that in his 'townreads list.' So yeah, in this I feel like Shinichi has more chances of being the townie, if both aren't.
I don't like this vote. Seems like an early bandwagon disguised as thought. I town read Sinichi early, well pretty close to that, I didn't see anything outwardly scummy. I'm just not feeling the sincerity.
Oh sweet, Terry agrees with me in his own way. Not sure I would scumread RE though, his vote looked decent. I can sort of see where he's coming from because it's true that Shinichi is a mislynch magnet.
Yeah, that's actually how I felt about it too, but I wanted to do something slightly productive. So I thought it was a little weird that you voted right after me.
Damn, town vibes anyone? Never seen a mafia admit that they weren't onto anything big but still (basically) say "meh, I just wanted to look like I've been doing something."
I can only recall one game I played in with WG, some micro with a cult mechanic. He scumread me most of D1 for some reason, can't remember and don't feel like looking it up, then he reversed his read on me when I self-voted. Basically I feel like he's handling me in a similar fashion.
Were you scum in that game (or cult, whatever)? I'm curious, this somewhat matters.
Though the way he's handling me also means that trying to interact with him will suck the fun out of the game for me. It gives off a very "you're scum so I don't care about anything you have to say," vibe, which I don't feel like subjecting myself to. So I'll interact with other people and he'll see I'm town sooner or later.
Mmh, I said earlier in this post of mine that I felt you were just brushing aside the issue by belittling WG's vote, but your lines here (especially the last sentence) almost convince me that you genuinely don't want to deal with WG. I'm confused now.
When someone says "I don't think xyz is scummy," that does not register as a townread to me. It registers as null.
Same here, but in the end, one can only be of one of two alignments. So while it's fair to null-read people in the meantime, if ultimately someone is not scummy, he will be considered a townie.
I don't recall that playstyle from you. That said, I also don't mind being wrong. I'll reread Titanic Ultimatum soon. If you do play like that, then I'll reconsider the read. But if you don't play like that, it's the last nail in the coffin because it means you're trying to play like you think you do when you're town.
You could literaly, during your rereading of that game, find some posts of Vaimes and contextualize them your way to present them to us as so and no one would notice. The part I bolded just makes it look like you've set up every weapon and wall needed to surround Vaimes.
kpaca says he doesn't have a strong read on anyone, everybody is okay with it
vaimes says he doesn't have a strong read on anyone, everybody is okay with it
shinichi says he doesn't have a strong read on anyone NOW EVERYONE IS PISSED
Is it just me or everything WG says in this post is just false? There are people who weren't okay with kpaca and vaimes' reads. And I'm pretty sure just as many people are okay with Shinichi than not okay with him.
Wait, cite the posts where people are pissed at Shinichi.
Oh see, even a drunk Vaimes agrees, haha.
---
I was gonna focus on Mindreaver because he was onto me until I saw #184. This post screams town on a deep level to me because of how much it mirrors my thoughts on the game start. I'm more and more positive that one of Vaimes or WG is scum. If Mindreaver happens to be scum somehow, I'm not sure who would be aligned with him. The post suggests he would be scum with kpaca because he favors him over WG (unless I misunderstood), but Mindreaver could be doing a fake FOS on WG, by which I mean he's declaring that he's suspecting WG but he still ends up voting for someone with reasons that are weaker. Pretty common with scum. Kind of like bussing without actually bussing. Doesn't really matter though if Mindreaver is town, which I think he most likely is. And not sure I'd call his vote on AG any weaker than a potential vote on WG. (props to Vaimes for mentioning something about it here, though!)
Pages 7-8 left to read.
Who feels town to me: Terry, Roger/Rhand, Shinichi, Mindreaver
I can understand the scumreads on Roger, but I know him like that so I'm less fazed by his barrage of questions. Honestly hard to read because he's all about the analysis, I see he has been replaced now, though.
Who I'm not sure what to think of: RE1031, kpaca, AG, Vaimes, Grape
Vaimes is definitely town if WG is scum. Wait, can I really say that? These two seem to have some kind of history where one used to scumread the other pretty hard. It's possible that they're playing around with this scenario again but this time they're both scum and they're using it to distract. Some kind of weird plotting by these two is not out of the picture for me.
Who I'd say is scummy: shadowlx, WG, (if there's a third one, for now I'd say it's AG, I guess. Much like everyone I don't like what he has done so far.)
Matter of fact, I don't even think Wheat and shadowlx have interacted once, which makes me feel even better about this listing. Then again, Wheat has only really interacted with Vaimes, lol. End spoiler Unvote Vote: shadowlancerx
This spreads out the vote count even more than it already was, so I feel bad to do this, but I do think shadowlx is the most likely scum. Hopefully after having fully caught up I will be able to focus even more on him.
QuickHoodies I have mislynched AG twice recently so I'm a bit gun shy to go in, but you are correct that there is nothing to town read him for. He's just always absent D1. Possibly later too, but I've only played with him as a D1 mislynch.
With Kpaca part of it is the brutality you alluded to even if it's not the right word. Another part is in my other game with him he was still a one liner machine, but he was very obviously town. This game I got nothing that gives me any sort of town feeling. At all. Which even when he's an argumentative quip machine I usually got.
That's why I'm leaning Kpaca over AG even if the case is very similar. Would rather lynch Shinichi or Rhand if there is enough time for him to get his bearings and attempt to defend himself.
Wheat_Grinder I appreciate your conviction but I'm never lynching Vaimes today. And probably not going to lynch RE but I promise you a reread there and see if it changes my mind. If Vaimes were mod confirmed town where do you go from there? All in on RE or does that change other things for you. And the reverse if Vaimes were confirmed scum but you couldn't vote him today where does your vote go?
@Re1031 I don't think its an exaggeration I mean I can read the thread myself and what WG is seeing i also see. It's just different opinion's on the alignment of the interactions.
I don't know if that's actually true... You ask if WG if they're thinking that the interaction between me and Vaimes is faked, so SvS, but there is no me vs. Vaimes, it's always been me vs. Terry. And then in #435 you say that WG is wrong about Vaimes focusing on him more than you. So I'm not sure why you're defending his reads if you don't agree with them or understand them.
While for re1031 I can tell her reaction is genuine but I also know she is very good at faking this kind of interaction which is why i suggested the probability of the other options.
When have I faked this before? I've been scum only once (since I got back into mafia) and converted cult member in another. I don't think I did much faking in either...
The fact that you didn't just roll with the statement or turnn it into a joke worries me, why are you so serious about a statement like that if you know it's not true. Town can be hypocrits too, i do it quite a fair bit do to my bad memory. Other than that is there a major reason for your vote?
I'm asking you because I don't remember ever faking a reaction like that. I'm also asking because if you can't give me an example of when I faked, that means you either forgot, or you threw shade on me to make to me an even bigger suspect. The major reason for my vote is WG has been throwing the "scum" word around a lot without actually backing their reads up. When I asked them to provide a scum read other than "Vaimes is 100% scum," WG said I was, which doesn't actually help me and certainly does not change my read on them.
There is so much CFTWR going on (caught for the wrong reasons).
Where do you get your blind certainty? I want some of that.
Man now i realize why i mislynch you so much, its cause of your blantly overreaction to every post that quotes you lmao. Also why the need for sarcasm?
No, just the posts that accuse me of being scum for silly reasons. You even admitted that Terry's read on me was hypocritical, and now Terry and WG are treating my question as a slip for faking annoyance. Trust me, I am annoyed at them.
Those posts generate reaction lol, so if you lose your cool on every little thing its just not a natural thing coming from someone thats town aligned. I would think if your town people will eventually come to see it.
Why do i need to prove it, are your saying your scum. I mean my post wasnt to throw shade or lie, its just the kind of player I think you are if anything it was a compliment. So your overreaction to this is just off and just not needed. Also maybe WG has notice something that we haven't they've played together have they not so its possible something vaimes posted is a scum tell for WG.
I was just putting a little support towards his read on the interaction that is all. I still town read terry, WG is still iffy territory but nonetheless I think his statement on the interaction is possible.
On the bolded portion of the defense, I would strongly disagree with that. I don't see a coherent view of the game coming through and I don't know where you stand on almost anyone in the game. With the exception of Mindreaver.
On the italics the first part rings much more true to me than the previous section. I see someone coming in and asking questions and poking holes in arguments. But that is all I see. And more poking holes than anything else. 3 of those statements are close to just flat dismissals. What I see more than anything else is an attempt to disrupt and discredit cases, which sure it will prevent mislynches, but it prevents scum lynches too.
And the underlined portion again starts off great very reasonable and matches up with your behavior but you haven't taken the next step of incorporating responses. You seem to be missing Mindreaver's point over and over again to the point where it begins to feel intentional. And the ad hominem attack at the end is again defensive in a way that feels similarlly scummy to the opening monologue about the confederate flag.
@grapefruit
This part specifically is what I dislike, you think he's trying to disrupt the game but in actuality I believe he's trying to catch scum by weeding out the faulty reads that people are throwing out all over the place. It's the same reason Re1031 seems to be gettinng mad since she feels like the reads are her are either bad or just faked. His defense actually seems alot more genuine than RE's defense so maybe that's why i trust roger a little. Also I still wanna know how weeding out the lies causes mislynches, so are you implying your ok following half baked reads?
PS. This is random but i dislike that confederate flag reference lol.
While for re1031 I can tell her reaction is genuine but I also know she is very good at faking this kind of interaction which is why i suggested the probability of the other options.
When have I faked this before? I've been scum only once (since I got back into mafia) and converted cult member in another. I don't think I did much faking in either...
That was the question I was being scumread over, or "caught" for. I genuinely don't know how anyone could be lead to that conclusion, and even now, I don't think that the phrasing implicates that I was faking in this game. Did you know the full context of my "deflecting" before interpreting it as bad?
Also, the flavor slip I'm referring to is in #241. It's why I think Rhand is the safest place to vote today.
Why do i need to prove it, are your saying your scum. I mean my post wasnt to throw shade or lie, its just the kind of player I think you are if anything it was a compliment. So your overreaction to this is just off and just not needed. Also maybe WG has notice something that we haven't they've played together have they not so its possible something vaimes posted is a scum tell for WG.
That I can agree with. But I don't think it's overreacting to ask when has ____ happened if you don't recall it ever happening.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
@QH I hate ur post lol can't u back read in smaller posts like *****.
Yes creating false accusations is scummy but if you believe thats the only thing that could be gotten from the post then sure i am a hypocrit, but it's not like we 100% know that was the meaning of the post.
Man i hate that your pocketing me, you might even be scum because of it. I just gah i can't stand the fact that i'm being pocketed but cant get a good read on you at all.
I dislike when you take 30 consecutive posts to reply to everything so I guess we're even <3
Nah it just felt weird to me when you said "scum wouldn't ask questions to push the thread" then directly followed with "scum would try to create false accusations" because from how I see it, doing the latter implies doing the former.
It's not pocketing if I'm town. I know you're not used to being townread but I'm not voting you toDay. You can take a breather now.
HEY atleast you can multi quote them XD. How so as scum you would want town to continue being misinformed, so why would scum try to get answers that would help town is seems detremental to their win con. Scum would try to create false accusations becasue scum can't make proper read lists and if anything u can later on tell if the read list is faked. Which is why they need to create those false accusations, to get someone lynched. They know who is town, so they need to find a way to make town players scum or just sheep other peoples trains on them.
I don't know your town and you don't know i'm town. If you do know im 100% town that implies your scum *wink wink
As in not artificial. Not in any way trying to mislead.
So from what i'm reading you think that re1031 and Vaimes interaction are completely faked leading to it being S v Sright?
Have they had many interactions? Mostly they've talked about each other but not to each other.
But yes I do believe both are scum.
If I May ask a 2nd question what is so anti vaimes about that post I don't know him at all it seems like a pretty norm post.
I don't expect Vaimes to, when asked a question, completely blow it off because he doesn't like who asked it.
Ok thanks for that answer i get what ya mean now
Even if they interactions are little they could still be faked which is why i asked that question, atleast u didnt blow off the answer.
I'm used to that atleast from where ive been playing mafia so it's not even that strange, but if he really is scum why would he do something that is obviously not town vaimes?
Okay so we're getting close enough to the deadline 29th from memory, and have a clear enough lynch pool that people who don't want one of Kpaca, AG, Shinichi, or Rhand lynched should start being very clear as to why.
I'm in a spot where 3 of those feel like shrug lynched and the other just replaced.
If we're going to lynch one of Terry v RE (which I don't want to do) I'm always going for Terry.
I'm never lynching Mind or Vaimes.
I don't want to lynch QH or Shadow, but that is largely based on bias and not this game. Plus I still haven't read QH's big post with spoilers... Next week I'll have access to a laptop again.
As for Wheat I don't know what to make of them. The level of gung-ho on vaimes strikes me the same way Mind talked about Terry. But unlike Terry I don't have anything giving me town vibes.
TLDR:
Want to lynch: Kpaca (for being Kpaca but not really doing anything even more so)
Shinichi (for dodging a ton of questions and doing some heavy FUD'ing)
AG (as a compromise lynch only, for being very absent)
Rhand (for Roger running an aggressive discrediting style while largely not commiting to views of his own)
Willing to be persuaded into anyone else but Vaimes or Mind.
I don't dodge questions I miss them, I never dodge anything if I was mafia it be extremely careless of me to purposely ignore questions it be like putting a target on myself.
Also why are you even protecting people based on factors outside of this game, that just seems like your blaintly protecting buddies.
Why never on mind or vaimes? Are you 100% certain of their role cause that be impossible unless you were scum.
Everyone else seems to like the idea of lynching vaimes/Kpaca/Rhandes
Thanks Shadow! I really appreciate the massive quote.
I really disliked a couple parts (I don't see the shadow thing and still disagree on the pragmatic question being useful) but that is probably a town post. QH joins Vaimes and Mind in the never lynch pile.
Shinichi thanks for finally responding to that. I'm still not quoting, but I largely disagree with your take on Roger. I see an attempt to look like weeding out bad reads. But I don't see the next step. I don't see any interest in figuring out the game. I know you said you saw more in them and saw stances and such, but there just isn't anything there except discrediting. And that leads back to my issue with you: I see you throwing out reads and then working backwards to justify them. That's what I see with the Kpaca read way back on page 1 and 2 and I keep seeing a similar sort of thing now.
As for saying I don't want to lynch QH or Shadow yeah it was partly bias (I could see the engagement level and coherence that makes the game more interesting). Shadow's commitment flagged, but I have experience with him and know he's usually a high quality poster. And to a fault I use that as a tiebreaker.
As for being 100% on Vaimes, Mind, and now QH that isn't a forever read, but a never lynching based on what's happened so far today. There are multiple people scummier in my eyes and they (Vaimes, Mind, and QH) are actually exhibiting town traits. So never voting for them today.
RE1031: I don't know where you're getting your bad feelings about me, but I'm sure it will sort itself out. I'm more curious about your thoughts on Kpaca. What gives you the impression that we are treating him differently to AG? I feel like I'm treating the two the same.
Shadow on my random vote in the middle of the post I was really out of it and feeling a bit lost. And I do find Roger scummy, but I want to give Rhand a chance. So I moved my vote.
Going to reread RE since I seem to be on a different wavelength to most people there. I just felt the indignation at Terry and the vote not moving felt town. I know over-defensiveness is usually a scum trait, but I just read those posts as very strongly town.
RE1031: I don't know where you're getting your bad feelings about me, but I'm sure it will sort itself out. I'm more curious about your thoughts on Kpaca. What gives you the impression that we are treating him differently to AG? I feel like I'm treating the two the same.
Well, people are voting for him with intent to lynch, I would say that is different treatment. Like I said, I agree with Quickhoodies's post. Given kpaca's lack of activity and contribution, it's not a significant loss if we mislynch him (unless he's a PR), but I have a feeling it will be a mislynch. Certainly kpaca's done scummy things this game, but scum who do scummy things try to balance it out with other posts, and that isn't happening here. If kpaca were new to playing as scum, perhaps their inactivity would make sense, but that isn't the case.
As for my bad feelings, you are squeaky clean. You're not taking any stabs that might lead to getting unwanted attention, and the posts that seem townie feel more like opportunities taken to appear town rather than genuine scumhunting. I don't know if you'll get this reference, but your playstyle this game is reminding me a lot of Crossbell's scum games. Time will tell (well, flips), and I'm not interested in lynching you yet, because I factor in the possibility I'm completely wrong and the reason you are squeaky clean is simply because you're town. (You may not be curious, but I think it's worth putting this out there.)
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RE I think I'm seeing something different to what you intended in your post. I read it as "it's strange that people are pressuring Kpaca but not AG because Kpaca has only shown scummy behavior." That's kind of exactly the reason I'm pressuring him. AG pretty much falls in the same bucket, but I feel like AG's behavior is more in line with his town game than Kpaca's is with his. Not that either screams town to me at all.
I have really come to hate the to scummy to be scum defense. If it's something town do more than scum it's not scummy behavior and it shouldn't be called that.
And RE I'd say I made some stabs (I lead the charge on QH and Roger being scum), but my strongest stances right now are on my town reads.
That was the question I was being scumread over, or "caught" for. I genuinely don't know how anyone could be lead to that conclusion, and even now, I don't think that the phrasing implicates that I was faking in this game. Did you know the full context of my "deflecting" before interpreting it as bad?
I knew the context. Terry's "catch" on you was whatever to me, wasn't really a smoking gun like he thought it was, but your reaction felt wrong. Instead of looking as though you though he was mistaken, you look as though you faked complete ignorance about it. Emphasis on "faked".
Quote from RE1031 »
Also, the flavor slip I'm referring to is in #241. It's why I think Rhand is the safest place to vote today.
Okay sure, that post is odd, but why not go:
"Hey Rhand, can you address this linked post of your predecessor for me, any idea what he's talking about?"
And again, you're voting someone "safe". That tells me that you probably know that your vote is bogus, but feel like that's a good reason.
As an aside, Cantrip just got out of a game where flavor was a total trap, I really doubt he's going to host a game that a flavor slip is even possible.
Shadow on my random vote in the middle of the post I was really out of it and feeling a bit lost. And I do find Roger scummy, but I want to give Rhand a chance. So I moved my vote.
Fair enough, what are your thoughts on Rhand so far?
Shadow on my random vote in the middle of the post I was really out of it and feeling a bit lost. And I do find Roger scummy, but I want to give Rhand a chance. So I moved my vote.
Fair enough, what are your thoughts on Rhand so far?
No impression of him so far. Nothing sticks out to me one way or another. Do you have thoughts on him?
Shadow on my random vote in the middle of the post I was really out of it and feeling a bit lost. And I do find Roger scummy, but I want to give Rhand a chance. So I moved my vote.
Fair enough, what are your thoughts on Rhand so far?
No impression of him so far. Nothing sticks out to me one way or another. Do you have thoughts on him?
Very slight town pings on him, though I'd rather not say why cause o want to see if it continues.
RE I think I'm seeing something different to what you intended in your post. I read it as "it's strange that people are pressuring Kpaca but not AG because Kpaca has only shown scummy behavior." That's kind of exactly the reason I'm pressuring him. AG pretty much falls in the same bucket, but I feel like AG's behavior is more in line with his town game than Kpaca's is with his. Not that either screams town to me at all.
I have really come to hate the to scummy to be scum defense. If it's something town do more than scum it's not scummy behavior and it shouldn't be called that.
And RE I'd say I made some stabs (I lead the charge on QH and Roger being scum), but my strongest stances right now are on my town reads.
How on earth did you read it as that? I did not mention AG at all nor did I mention "pressure." I said it was troubling that I didn't see people asking kpaca for other reads, or something like that. Yes, it's kpaca's fault for not actually doing anything, but I found it strange that people kept piling on the votes without asking questions or trying get kpaca to be more active. Solely based on kpaca's reactions, it seems like he's not feeling the pressure at all. But anyway, I've never played with kpaca or AG, and I do think that meta is actually pretty reliable, so we'll see. I'll just say compared to the game Vaimes linked, I see little similarity to this game.
That was the question I was being scumread over, or "caught" for. I genuinely don't know how anyone could be lead to that conclusion, and even now, I don't think that the phrasing implicates that I was faking in this game. Did you know the full context of my "deflecting" before interpreting it as bad?
I knew the context. Terry's "catch" on you was whatever to me, wasn't really a smoking gun like he thought it was, but your reaction felt wrong. Instead of looking as though you though he was mistaken, you look as though you faked complete ignorance about it. Emphasis on "faked".
Well, you're not wrong. People have different reactions to "whatever," and that was mine. I faked not being a grammar expert, because I was irritated that Terry was once again picking on something that (from my perspective) couldn't make me scum.
Quote from RE1031 »
Also, the flavor slip I'm referring to is in #241. It's why I think Rhand is the safest place to vote today.
Okay sure, that post is odd, but why not go:
"Hey Rhand, can you address this linked post of your predecessor for me, any idea what he's talking about?"
And again, you're voting someone "safe". That tells me that you probably know that your vote is bogus, but feel like that's a good reason.
As an aside, Cantrip just got out of a game where flavor was a total trap, I really doubt he's going to host a game that a flavor slip is even possible.
Good point, I should have asked (actually, @Rhand, you can treat this as me asking), but I didn't because I assumed the answer would be he didn't know (whether it's true or not). You're misunderstanding me when I say safe. "Safe" doesn't mean bogus, it means I'm relying on something more concrete (a slip) than behavior. If it's not explicitly stated that flavor is NAI, then we can't really be certain, no? Plus I already have a theory on what it means for someone to not "have a specific character name attached to your [their] role."
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I do have a name, but it's a bit weird. Not really a "character's name", so I understand where Roger was coming from.
I think that actually clears RE here.
I think Grapefruit would be the best lynch toDay, but I really won't have time to dig into anything before deadline, and I don't want to push a lynch based on just a few posts.
@Shadow: talk to me here. What is your read on Grape? Any posts you can link that can help me figure out his alignment?
I do have a name, but it's a bit weird. Not really a "character's name", so I understand where Roger was coming from.
I think that actually clears RE here.
I think Grapefruit would be the best lynch toDay, but I really won't have time to dig into anything before deadline, and I don't want to push a lynch based on just a few posts.
@Shadow: talk to me here. What is your read on Grape? Any posts you can link that can help me figure out his alignment?
Is this just in reference to this post? Were there any others that make you think he's scum?
1. I'm not sure why you're singling him out as the best lynch when originally you said you're gonna add him to the list of people you want to look at, and then never brought him up again before now (or anyone else on your list, for that matter) that differentiates him from other people you want to look into.
2. How can you think he's the best lynch if you don't even believe you have a good handle on his alignment?
I do have a name, but it's a bit weird. Not really a "character's name", so I understand where Roger was coming from.
I think that actually clears RE here.
How does it clear me? I'm a little skeptical.
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RE1031: I don't know where you're getting your bad feelings about me, but I'm sure it will sort itself out. I'm more curious about your thoughts on Kpaca. What gives you the impression that we are treating him differently to AG? I feel like I'm treating the two the same.
Well, people are voting for him with intent to lynch, I would say that is different treatment. Like I said, I agree with Quickhoodies's post. Given kpaca's lack of activity and contribution, it's not a significant loss if we mislynch him (unless he's a PR), but I have a feeling it will be a mislynch. Certainly kpaca's done scummy things this game, but scum who do scummy things try to balance it out with other posts, and that isn't happening here. If kpaca were new to playing as scum, perhaps their inactivity would make sense, but that isn't the case.
As for my bad feelings, you are squeaky clean. You're not taking any stabs that might lead to getting unwanted attention, and the posts that seem townie feel more like opportunities taken to appear town rather than genuine scumhunting. I don't know if you'll get this reference, but your playstyle this game is reminding me a lot of Crossbell's scum games. Time will tell (well, flips), and I'm not interested in lynching you yet, because I factor in the possibility I'm completely wrong and the reason you are squeaky clean is simply because you're town. (You may not be curious, but I think it's worth putting this out there.)
The bolded parts are what gave me that impression. And rereading it I stand by that impression.
You refer to AG by stating the difference between him and Kpaca being the scum reads. You try to absolve his scumminess by saying he hasn't done anything town which you'd expect from town.
As for what you were saying about votes not affecting Kpaca I pretty much agree, but I have to try because he's been overtly scummy this game. As for not asking any questions I'd rather not direct him and I just want any sort of input on the game. Same from AG.
I do have a name, but it's a bit weird. Not really a "character's name", so I understand where Roger was coming from.
I think that actually clears RE here.
I think Grapefruit would be the best lynch toDay, but I really won't have time to dig into anything before deadline, and I don't want to push a lynch based on just a few posts.
@Shadow: talk to me here. What is your read on Grape? Any posts you can link that can help me figure out his alignment?
Going to echo the question of how I got singled out from your group of 3. What makes me more likely scum than the others you wanted to look at? Do you no longer find Mind or RE scummy?
Second I'm getting a bit worried about Vaimes. He's now now off the never lynch list. Probably suspecting him for different reasons to everyone else. Still no interest in lynching today, just no longer super townie.
RE1031: I don't know where you're getting your bad feelings about me, but I'm sure it will sort itself out. I'm more curious about your thoughts on Kpaca. What gives you the impression that we are treating him differently to AG? I feel like I'm treating the two the same.
Well, people are voting for him with intent to lynch, I would say that is different treatment. Like I said, I agree with Quickhoodies's post. Given kpaca's lack of activity and contribution, it's not a significant loss if we mislynch him (unless he's a PR), but I have a feeling it will be a mislynch. Certainly kpaca's done scummy things this game, but scum who do scummy things try to balance it out with other posts, and that isn't happening here. If kpaca were new to playing as scum, perhaps their inactivity would make sense, but that isn't the case.
As for my bad feelings, you are squeaky clean. You're not taking any stabs that might lead to getting unwanted attention, and the posts that seem townie feel more like opportunities taken to appear town rather than genuine scumhunting. I don't know if you'll get this reference, but your playstyle this game is reminding me a lot of Crossbell's scum games. Time will tell (well, flips), and I'm not interested in lynching you yet, because I factor in the possibility I'm completely wrong and the reason you are squeaky clean is simply because you're town. (You may not be curious, but I think it's worth putting this out there.)
The bolded parts are what gave me that impression. And rereading it I stand by that impression.
You refer to AG by stating the difference between him and Kpaca being the scum reads. You try to absolve his scumminess by saying he hasn't done anything town which you'd expect from town.
As for what you were saying about votes not affecting Kpaca I pretty much agree, but I have to try because he's been overtly scummy this game. As for not asking any questions I'd rather not direct him and I just want any sort of input on the game. Same from AG.
Okay, I'm confused. I thought you were referring to my post #456. This is the conversation I'm seeing (with commentary):
Seriously bad feeling about Grapefruit. Rhand hasn't done much. My scumread of WG may just be a result of different playstyles, either way, apparently nobody else wants to lynch him. Quickhoodies is now town to me, I agree very much with #454. It's troubling that nobody is actually asking kpaca to give reads or be more active (as far as I can remember), although that's mainly kpaca's fault. [I do not mention AG in this post at all]
RE1031: I don't know where you're getting your bad feelings about me, but I'm sure it will sort itself out. I'm more curious about your thoughts on Kpaca. What gives you the impression that we are treating him differently to AG? [What made you think that?] I feel like I'm treating the two the same.
Well, people are voting for him with intent to lynch, I would say that is different treatment. [I was not thinking of AG at this time, hence the straightforward answer.] Like I said, I agree with Quickhoodies's post. Given kpaca's lack of activity and contribution, it's not a significant loss if we mislynch him (unless he's a PR), but I have a feeling it will be a mislynch. Certainly kpaca's done scummy things this game, but scum who do scummy things try to balance it out with other posts, and that isn't happening here. If kpaca were new to playing as scum, perhaps their inactivity would make sense, but that isn't the case.
As for my bad feelings, you are squeaky clean. You're not taking any stabs that might lead to getting unwanted attention, and the posts that seem townie feel more like opportunities taken to appear town rather than genuine scumhunting. I don't know if you'll get this reference, but your playstyle this game is reminding me a lot of Crossbell's scum games. Time will tell (well, flips), and I'm not interested in lynching you yet, because I factor in the possibility I'm completely wrong and the reason you are squeaky clean is simply because you're town. (You may not be curious, but I think it's worth putting this out there.)
RE I think I'm seeing something different to what you intended in your post. [I thought you meant my first post, #456] I read it as "it's strange that people are pressuring Kpaca but not AG because Kpaca has only shown scummy behavior." That's kind of exactly the reason I'm pressuring him. AG pretty much falls in the same bucket, but I feel like AG's behavior is more in line with his town game than Kpaca's is with his. Not that either screams town to me at all.
If you were referring to my post #468, you are making a whole lot of assumptions from it, which is kind of troubling and I'd prefer you ask if you don't understand. I was not even comparing kpaca to AG in the second and third bolded parts, just making observations. After stating that the votes are what make AG and kpaca different, I stopped comparing them. I never compared kpaca to AG until you brought it up, unless you want to indirectly include my agreement of QH's post, which I apologize for, since while I said I agreed with the post, I mainly just agreed with his point being that kpaca seems like a mislynch & your #451 looking scummy (I didn't pay attention to the final paragraph). In any case, if you're interested in hearing my thoughts on AG, I still think it is impossible to read him with what he has given us, and the fact that he isn't under any pressure right now. Like, I just checked AG's ISO and I don't know how anyone can even get a town feel from what they've posted.
And a bit late, but there's always too scummy for scum. It's just another way of saying not caring enough about appearance to be scum. It works sometimes.
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I do have a name, but it's a bit weird. Not really a "character's name", so I understand where Roger was coming from.
I think that actually clears RE here.
How does it clear me? I'm a little skeptical.
Because your instinct was to compare my role to yours.
re:the Grape suspicion: that is because he never reacted to the sk thing and because of the reason he voted Roger.
Because your instinct was to compare my role to yours.
This I like. unvote
The more I think about it, the flavor thing doesn't make sense as a slip. Scum probably would not mention it at all if their flavor differed in any way from town (assuming Mindreaver is town). I mean, I guess that's what would make it a slip in theory, but that's still way too careless coming from scum.
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Hey guys, I'm actually vacationing for the next week and a half. I can check in mobile pretty often and I need to take about an hour a day for work emails, so I'll probably be able to post then. Tldnr is that I'm VLA for 10 days. I can keep up, but posting will be light. If you guys are ok with that I'd like to keep playing, but if Cantrip decides to replace me I understand.
I do have a name, but it's a bit weird. Not really a "character's name", so I understand where Roger was coming from.
I think that actually clears RE here.
I think Grapefruit would be the best lynch toDay, but I really won't have time to dig into anything before deadline, and I don't want to push a lynch based on just a few posts.
@Shadow: talk to me here. What is your read on Grape? Any posts you can link that can help me figure out his alignment?
I have grapefruit as town lean, I've had a couple of moments that give me pause, but his play this game feels genuine. I don't get the feel of his posts being forced or faked. One of the big things with him, is I don't think scum!Grapefruit has the gall to cut out context of town!Roger's posts just for the sake of pushing him for it, he'd have to know he'd get called out. So I mean I guess he could be scum if you are, but that seems unlikely. I don't have the energy to go back and link posts for you atm, sorry.
Grape, can you walk me through why you're echoing me but also somehow more suspicious of me? My questions to Rhand are the only post between your stated townread of me weakening, so there seems to be a leap there from "Yeah what Vaimes said" and "Vaimes is less town now" that I'm missing.
I do have a name, but it's a bit weird. Not really a "character's name", so I understand where Roger was coming from.
I think that actually clears RE here.
How does it clear me? I'm a little skeptical.
Because your instinct was to compare my role to yours.
re:the Grape suspicion: that is because he never reacted to the sk thing and because of the reason he voted Roger.
That doesn't really answer either of the questions.
I do have a name, but it's a bit weird. Not really a "character's name", so I understand where Roger was coming from.
I think that actually clears RE here.
I think Grapefruit would be the best lynch toDay, but I really won't have time to dig into anything before deadline, and I don't want to push a lynch based on just a few posts.
@Shadow: talk to me here. What is your read on Grape? Any posts you can link that can help me figure out his alignment?
I have grapefruit as town lean, I've had a couple of moments that give me pause, but his play this game feels genuine. I don't get the feel of his posts being forced or faked. One of the big things with him, is I don't think scum!Grapefruit has the gall to cut out context of town!Roger's posts just for the sake of pushing him for it, he'd have to know he'd get called out. So I mean I guess he could be scum if you are, but that seems unlikely. I don't have the energy to go back and link posts for you atm, sorry.
It's been a while since I've played with Grape, but the last time I did, I recall him saying he's never played as scum. I probably should have asked earlier, but can you link a scum!Grapefruit game?
That doesn't really answer either of the questions.
I don't know about the second part, but the logic behind the first makes sense. If I were mafia, I most likely would not make a fuss over someone having a different kind of flavor. As town, the "natural" reaction to the difference would be to question it, whereas mafia would privately accept that their flavor is different.
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@RE1031: I haven't seen a scum game for Grapefruit, so I don't have one to link; my point was more that I don't think any scum would make an attack on a townie like that.
QuickHoodies I have mislynched AG twice recently so I'm a bit gun shy to go in, but you are correct that there is nothing to town read him for. He's just always absent D1. Possibly later too, but I've only played with him as a D1 mislynch.
With Kpaca part of it is the brutality you alluded to even if it's not the right word. Another part is in my other game with him he was still a one liner machine, but he was very obviously town. This game I got nothing that gives me any sort of town feeling. At all. Which even when he's an argumentative quip machine I usually got.
That's why I'm leaning Kpaca over AG even if the case is very similar. Would rather lynch Shinichi or Rhand if there is enough time for him to get his bearings and attempt to defend himself.
Wheat_Grinder I appreciate your conviction but I'm never lynching Vaimes today. And probably not going to lynch RE but I promise you a reread there and see if it changes my mind. If Vaimes were mod confirmed town where do you go from there? All in on RE or does that change other things for you. And the reverse if Vaimes were confirmed scum but you couldn't vote him today where does your vote go?
If Vaimes is scum, RE is scum without question.
If Vaimes is town, RE probably isn't scum. It doesn't feel like a pocket attempt to me, which is the requirement for town Vaimes, scum RE.
I see kpaca, Shinichi, and Rhand being floated as possible lynch targets. I don't like the idea of lynching any of them, particularly Shinichi. I don't really feel like kpaca is scum either, and Rhand is someone I'd expect to contribute more later.
AG I wouldn't really be opposed to. Not really in favor, just not against.
As in not artificial. Not in any way trying to mislead.
So from what i'm reading you think that re1031 and Vaimes interaction are completely faked leading to it being S v Sright?
Have they had many interactions? Mostly they've talked about each other but not to each other.
But yes I do believe both are scum.
If I May ask a 2nd question what is so anti vaimes about that post I don't know him at all it seems like a pretty norm post.
I don't expect Vaimes to, when asked a question, completely blow it off because he doesn't like who asked it.
Ok thanks for that answer i get what ya mean now
Even if they interactions are little they could still be faked which is why i asked that question, atleast u didnt blow off the answer.
I'm used to that atleast from where ive been playing mafia so it's not even that strange, but if he really is scum why would he do something that is obviously not town vaimes?
scum under pressure do many things that they wouldn't as town.
I do have a name, but it's a bit weird. Not really a "character's name", so I understand where Roger was coming from.
I think that actually clears RE here.
How does it clear me? I'm a little skeptical.
Because your instinct was to compare my role to yours.
re:the Grape suspicion: that is because he never reacted to the sk thing and because of the reason he voted Roger.
Hold on just a second. I reacted to the serial killer thing. I think I may even have been the first to react.
My reaction to Mindreaver's original post is here here. And I had a long back and forth with Roger about that reference. So reading me based on not reacting to the SK reference is just making things up.
@Vaimes It's basically how quickly you leapt to my defense. You've had me as a strong town lean for most of this game, but that was a really quick leap to my defense. I had the same questions for Rhand as you, but I was worried about you trying to tie yourself to me as scum. I have a very egocentric way of playing the game and get worried when people get too comfortable with me. And you stealing the questions I had for Rhand that quickly when you were on leave has me worried. Probably coincidence, but has me worried.
I also had a scum game I replaced out midway through here so combined I have one full game. No ISO feature though so I'm not linking it unless someone really wants to read a whole game that I wasn't in the whole way.
@RE1031: I haven't seen a scum game for Grapefruit, so I don't have one to link; my point was more that I don't think any scum would make an attack on a townie like that.
I would agree, but Roger was already receiving attention from other players. The game you linked is actually consistent with my read on Grapefruit, the tone is extremely similar. Also, his reads have been all over the place this page.
If Vaimes is town, RE probably isn't scum. It doesn't feel like a pocket attempt to me, which is the requirement for town Vaimes, scum RE.
I almost want to lynch Vaimes solely to see your reaction. Even if he's scum, well, that's a win/win scenario.
Also, please explain clearly why I am automatically scum if Vaimes is scum. This is twice I've been involved in "dichotomies" and it's annoying because I can't actually defend myself from it because there's no incriminating evidence. It's like me saying you are automatically scum if Vaimes is town, or everyone should lynch Terry when I flip town. These if ___, then ___ almost never work in mafia. You have to work with flips AND new information/posts that follow. Town beat up town all the time, and bussing is a thing. Is there anything else besides me thinking your read on Vaimes is backed up by nothing that would indicate that I am scum?
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@Grapefruit
Could you respond to #481? Why did you think I thought people were treating kpaca differently from AG? The first post you quoted did not say that, and even if you assumed I agreed with QH's assessment of the AG/kpaca scenario, why did you ask me instead of QH? Also, QH brought up a lot of good points, why were you so interested in the ones comparing kpaca to AG? You say you are not completely against an AG lynch, but you are rather defensive of him. If you reread the posts I made, you should be able to tell that I was not using AG as a basis for saying kpaca is probably mislynch, but purely kpaca's behavior. Somehow something made you extremely wary of the similarities between kpaca and AG, to the point you assumed I was suspicious of the difference in treatment despite me saying nothing of the sort.
Let me ask you this: if kpaca is scum, what would scum be doing in this situation? Please don't be cute and say it's what I'm doing now.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Suppose you and Vaimes are mafia, or perhaps you and AG, or perhaps only you. There's the fact that AG's game activity is very similar to kpaca's. And with this comes the fact that AG voted kpaca but kpaca didn't vote AG. kpaca's slot seems to me here like a wonderful spot for mafia to go to.
If we based the votes off of Kpaca posts alone i don't see anythiing wrong with them, He's not trying to defend himself atleast it doesnt seem that way, THe problem is we don't know his alignment. All we can be sure about is if someone Kpaca does get lynched it will be gunranteed if the flip is town that atleast 1 or 2 scum will have been on that train.
@Grapefruit
Could you respond to #481? Why did you think I thought people were treating kpaca differently from AG? The first post you quoted did not say that, and even if you assumed I agreed with QH's assessment of the AG/kpaca scenario, why did you ask me instead of QH? Also, QH brought up a lot of good points, why were you so interested in the ones comparing kpaca to AG? You say you are not completely against an AG lynch, but you are rather defensive of him. If you reread the posts I made, you should be able to tell that I was not using AG as a basis for saying kpaca is probably mislynch, but purely kpaca's behavior. Somehow something made you extremely wary of the similarities between kpaca and AG, to the point you assumed I was suspicious of the difference in treatment despite me saying nothing of the sort.
Let me ask you this: if kpaca is scum, what would scum be doing in this situation? Please don't be cute and say it's what I'm doing now.
RE1031: I don't know where you're getting your bad feelings about me, but I'm sure it will sort itself out. I'm more curious about your thoughts on Kpaca. What gives you the impression that we are treating him differently to AG? I feel like I'm treating the two the same.
Well, people are voting for him with intent to lynch, I would say that is different treatment. Like I said, I agree with Quickhoodies's post. Given kpaca's lack of activity and contribution, it's not a significant loss if we mislynch him (unless he's a PR), but I have a feeling it will be a mislynch. Certainly kpaca's done scummy things this game, but scum who do scummy things try to balance it out with other posts, and that isn't happening here. If kpaca were new to playing as scum, perhaps their inactivity would make sense, but that isn't the case.
As for my bad feelings, you are squeaky clean. You're not taking any stabs that might lead to getting unwanted attention, and the posts that seem townie feel more like opportunities taken to appear town rather than genuine scumhunting. I don't know if you'll get this reference, but your playstyle this game is reminding me a lot of Crossbell's scum games. Time will tell (well, flips), and I'm not interested in lynching you yet, because I factor in the possibility I'm completely wrong and the reason you are squeaky clean is simply because you're town. (You may not be curious, but I think it's worth putting this out there.)
The bolded parts are what gave me that impression. And rereading it I stand by that impression.
You refer to AG by stating the difference between him and Kpaca being the scum reads. You try to absolve his scumminess by saying he hasn't done anything town which you'd expect from town.
As for what you were saying about votes not affecting Kpaca I pretty much agree, but I have to try because he's been overtly scummy this game. As for not asking any questions I'd rather not direct him and I just want any sort of input on the game. Same from AG.
Okay, I'm confused. I thought you were referring to my post #456. This is the conversation I'm seeing (with commentary):
Seriously bad feeling about Grapefruit. Rhand hasn't done much. My scumread of WG may just be a result of different playstyles, either way, apparently nobody else wants to lynch him. Quickhoodies is now town to me, I agree very much with #454. It's troubling that nobody is actually asking kpaca to give reads or be more active (as far as I can remember), although that's mainly kpaca's fault. [I do not mention AG in this post at all][You don't but you refer to QH'd post that does and you agreed with. So I made the inference that you considered them differently.]
RE1031: I don't know where you're getting your bad feelings about me, but I'm sure it will sort itself out. I'm more curious about your thoughts on Kpaca. What gives you the impression that we are treating him differently to AG? [What made you think that?] I feel like I'm treating the two the same.
Well, people are voting for him with intent to lynch, I would say that is different treatment. [I was not thinking of AG at this time, hence the straightforward answer.][If you weren't thinking of him why did you respond like you were rather than stating you weren't? Like I said, I agree with Quickhoodies's post. Given kpaca's lack of activity and contribution, it's not a significant loss if we mislynch him (unless he's a PR), but I have a feeling it will be a mislynch. Certainly kpaca's done scummy things this game, but scum who do scummy things try to balance it out with other posts, and that isn't happening here. If kpaca were new to playing as scum, perhaps their inactivity would make sense, but that isn't the case.
As for my bad feelings, you are squeaky clean. You're not taking any stabs that might lead to getting unwanted attention, and the posts that seem townie feel more like opportunities taken to appear town rather than genuine scumhunting. I don't know if you'll get this reference, but your playstyle this game is reminding me a lot of Crossbell's scum games. Time will tell (well, flips), and I'm not interested in lynching you yet, because I factor in the possibility I'm completely wrong and the reason you are squeaky clean is simply because you're town. (You may not be curious, but I think it's worth putting this out there.)
RE I think I'm seeing something different to what you intended in your post. [I thought you meant my first post, #456][I wasn't, but it wasn't clear because I wasn't quoting. Back on computer now so it should be clearer moving forward] I read it as "it's strange that people are pressuring Kpaca but not AG because Kpaca has only shown scummy behavior." That's kind of exactly the reason I'm pressuring him. AG pretty much falls in the same bucket, but I feel like AG's behavior is more in line with his town game than Kpaca's is with his. Not that either screams town to me at all.
If you were referring to my post #468, you are making a whole lot of assumptions from it, which is kind of troubling and I'd prefer you ask if you don't understand. I was not even comparing kpaca to AG in the second and third bolded parts, just making observations. After stating that the votes are what make AG and kpaca different, I stopped comparing them. I never compared kpaca to AG until you brought it up, unless you want to indirectly include my agreement of QH's post, which I apologize for, since while I said I agreed with the post, I mainly just agreed with his point being that kpaca seems like a mislynch & your #451 looking scummy (I didn't pay attention to the final paragraph). In any case, if you're interested in hearing my thoughts on AG, I still think it is impossible to read him with what he has given us, and the fact that he isn't under any pressure right now. Like, I just checked AG's ISO and I don't know how anyone can even get a town feel from what they've posted.
And a bit late, but there's always too scummy for scum. It's just another way of saying not caring enough about appearance to be scum. It works sometimes.
I agree on your AG read. But I will explain my town feel stems from the fact that he's so absent. I haven't seen him give so little effort as scum. I have as town. It's so week though that I'd lynch him because he's been useless and thrown out some unsupported claims. I think that this really stemmed from my inability to use quotes effectively. I was trying to draw a comparison between the two and wasn't trying to protect AG. Or I wouldn't have had him in my pack of four to be lynched.
I made some assumptions about your agreement with the QH post and extrapolated from there causing a chain of misunderstanding. My bad.
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I'm in a spot where 3 of those feel like shrug lynched and the other just replaced.
If we're going to lynch one of Terry v RE (which I don't want to do) I'm always going for Terry.
I'm never lynching Mind or Vaimes.
I don't want to lynch QH or Shadow, but that is largely based on bias and not this game. Plus I still haven't read QH's big post with spoilers... Next week I'll have access to a laptop again.
As for Wheat I don't know what to make of them. The level of gung-ho on vaimes strikes me the same way Mind talked about Terry. But unlike Terry I don't have anything giving me town vibes.
TLDR:
Want to lynch: Kpaca (for being Kpaca but not really doing anything even more so)
Shinichi (for dodging a ton of questions and doing some heavy FUD'ing)
AG (as a compromise lynch only, for being very absent)
Rhand (for Roger running an aggressive discrediting style while largely not commiting to views of his own)
Willing to be persuaded into anyone else but Vaimes or Mind.
Is what I really wanted to say for the past couple of silent hours.
Which lynch are you talking about? You're voting Shadow best I can tell by yourself, but I have a feeling you're not talking about that one.
Sorry, I mean the kpaca lynch.
I don't particularly hate it, but I'm not really liking it.
It's a mix of - how AtheistGod voted him, - how the votes slowly started to pile up on him for reasons akin to why people would vote AG, - how kpaca looks like a relatively easy mislynch because of his behavior, - and how shortly after Terry's vote on him the thread went silent for about 15 hours only to be revived by you who, as if to find some secure ground, is asking everyone to vote for one of kpaca, AG, Shinichi, or Rhand unless good reasons are given.
Suppose you and Vaimes are mafia, or perhaps you and AG, or perhaps only you. There's the fact that AG's game activity is very similar to kpaca's. And with this comes the fact that AG voted kpaca but kpaca didn't vote AG. kpaca's slot seems to me here like a wonderful spot for mafia to go to.
I didn't particularly scumread you until your #451, and I'm not sure I even do now, because I'd like to think that you're trying to get things organized for town, and that the scum's votes are more scattered than this (following my previous suspicions, that'd be shadowlx on Shinichi, WG on Vaimes (in which case I'm not sure why kpaca would have followed him on that wagon if he was scum with him), and the third one who knows).
With all this, I'm not sure if AG is scum being spared by his teammates in favor of a kpaca lynch, or if AG is town whose vote is being used to build on kpaca because building on kpaca became easier than building on AG, or if kpaca scum is genuinely caught.
If someone could point me to something that differentiates kpaca and AG's approach to the current game by a decently long shot (from how I see it, both come in and out by posting brief reads in the same way, only kpaca is slightly more brutal (?)), that'd make things more understandable for me. I remember reading that AG was once mislynched as he had a similar posting style, but I also remember reading that the kpaca we're getting is a typical kpaca.
Seriously bad feeling about Grapefruit. Rhand hasn't done much. My scumread of WG may just be a result of different playstyles, either way, apparently nobody else wants to lynch him. Quickhoodies is now town to me, I agree very much with #454. It's troubling that nobody is actually asking kpaca to give reads or be more active (as far as I can remember), although that's mainly kpaca's fault.
@Shinichi: if that is one of your biggest problems, why would you find it weird that someone else did the same thing? Grapefruit, talk to me about your vote here, it seems out of place and just kind of thrown into the middle of your post. What was your thought process in this post? This post feels soooo bad. It's faking ignorance and then deflecting to a different point altogether. Looking back at it, this feels like deflecting here too. Two things for you. One, yeah, my activity hasn't been great, I've been disconnected, real life has made it hard to get into this game, and I'm working on it. Two, your scum read on me in the first place was hot garbage, like from your big post I'm not even entirely sure why you're scum reading me. You talk about my "pragmatic" questions that have already been talked about and I've gone over the reasoning, then you spend the rest of your spoilers post talking about everyone else and come back at the end to vote me. I was planning on just ignoring it, but I'm not sure anyone else even read your big post because no one else even questioned you on this, and it was really strange. If my activity level is what's giving you pause, fine, I'll be fixing that. Definitely a case of low impact posting. Where did you get from there that I was scumreading RE1031 for this though? Same as I said above, this is totally my fault, and I'm working to fix it. For what it's worth I'm sorry, I'm not usually one to coast. Not interested in lynching Terry "Yet"? Why do you want to go for a safe lynch, and what makes a Rhand lynch safe in your mind? Also, what is the flavor slip you're referring to?
I want to lynch Shinichi/kpaca, and since kpaca already has a wagon:
unvote, Vote kpaca I believe that's 5, you should claim.
Anyone else today seems like a bad idea, because I'm pretty sure those two are just scum.
@QH: The difference to me for kpaca and AG is the specific interactions and reads between kpaca and Shinichi feel incredibly scum v scum.
Grapefruit, here is the contents of QH's spoilered post:
With Kpaca part of it is the brutality you alluded to even if it's not the right word. Another part is in my other game with him he was still a one liner machine, but he was very obviously town. This game I got nothing that gives me any sort of town feeling. At all. Which even when he's an argumentative quip machine I usually got.
That's why I'm leaning Kpaca over AG even if the case is very similar. Would rather lynch Shinichi or Rhand if there is enough time for him to get his bearings and attempt to defend himself.
Wheat_Grinder I appreciate your conviction but I'm never lynching Vaimes today. And probably not going to lynch RE but I promise you a reread there and see if it changes my mind. If Vaimes were mod confirmed town where do you go from there? All in on RE or does that change other things for you. And the reverse if Vaimes were confirmed scum but you couldn't vote him today where does your vote go?
Those posts generate reaction lol, so if you lose your cool on every little thing its just not a natural thing coming from someone thats town aligned. I would think if your town people will eventually come to see it.
Why do i need to prove it, are your saying your scum. I mean my post wasnt to throw shade or lie, its just the kind of player I think you are if anything it was a compliment. So your overreaction to this is just off and just not needed. Also maybe WG has notice something that we haven't they've played together have they not so its possible something vaimes posted is a scum tell for WG.
I was just putting a little support towards his read on the interaction that is all. I still town read terry, WG is still iffy territory but nonetheless I think his statement on the interaction is possible.
@grapefruit
This part specifically is what I dislike, you think he's trying to disrupt the game but in actuality I believe he's trying to catch scum by weeding out the faulty reads that people are throwing out all over the place. It's the same reason Re1031 seems to be gettinng mad since she feels like the reads are her are either bad or just faked. His defense actually seems alot more genuine than RE's defense so maybe that's why i trust roger a little. Also I still wanna know how weeding out the lies causes mislynches, so are you implying your ok following half baked reads?
PS. This is random but i dislike that confederate flag reference lol.
That was the question I was being scumread over, or "caught" for. I genuinely don't know how anyone could be lead to that conclusion, and even now, I don't think that the phrasing implicates that I was faking in this game. Did you know the full context of my "deflecting" before interpreting it as bad?
Also, the flavor slip I'm referring to is in #241. It's why I think Rhand is the safest place to vote today.
That I can agree with. But I don't think it's overreacting to ask when has ____ happened if you don't recall it ever happening.
HEY atleast you can multi quote them XD. How so as scum you would want town to continue being misinformed, so why would scum try to get answers that would help town is seems detremental to their win con. Scum would try to create false accusations becasue scum can't make proper read lists and if anything u can later on tell if the read list is faked. Which is why they need to create those false accusations, to get someone lynched. They know who is town, so they need to find a way to make town players scum or just sheep other peoples trains on them.
I don't know your town and you don't know i'm town. If you do know im 100% town that implies your scum *wink wink
So instead we should just not use the word I'm actually really confused at this statement.
Ok thanks for that answer i get what ya mean now
Even if they interactions are little they could still be faked which is why i asked that question, atleast u didnt blow off the answer.
I'm used to that atleast from where ive been playing mafia so it's not even that strange, but if he really is scum why would he do something that is obviously not town vaimes?
I don't dodge questions I miss them, I never dodge anything if I was mafia it be extremely careless of me to purposely ignore questions it be like putting a target on myself.
Also why are you even protecting people based on factors outside of this game, that just seems like your blaintly protecting buddies.
Why never on mind or vaimes? Are you 100% certain of their role cause that be impossible unless you were scum.
Everyone else seems to like the idea of lynching vaimes/Kpaca/Rhandes
I really disliked a couple parts (I don't see the shadow thing and still disagree on the pragmatic question being useful) but that is probably a town post. QH joins Vaimes and Mind in the never lynch pile.
Shinichi thanks for finally responding to that. I'm still not quoting, but I largely disagree with your take on Roger. I see an attempt to look like weeding out bad reads. But I don't see the next step. I don't see any interest in figuring out the game. I know you said you saw more in them and saw stances and such, but there just isn't anything there except discrediting. And that leads back to my issue with you: I see you throwing out reads and then working backwards to justify them. That's what I see with the Kpaca read way back on page 1 and 2 and I keep seeing a similar sort of thing now.
As for saying I don't want to lynch QH or Shadow yeah it was partly bias (I could see the engagement level and coherence that makes the game more interesting). Shadow's commitment flagged, but I have experience with him and know he's usually a high quality poster. And to a fault I use that as a tiebreaker.
As for being 100% on Vaimes, Mind, and now QH that isn't a forever read, but a never lynching based on what's happened so far today. There are multiple people scummier in my eyes and they (Vaimes, Mind, and QH) are actually exhibiting town traits. So never voting for them today.
RE1031: I don't know where you're getting your bad feelings about me, but I'm sure it will sort itself out. I'm more curious about your thoughts on Kpaca. What gives you the impression that we are treating him differently to AG? I feel like I'm treating the two the same.
Shadow on my random vote in the middle of the post I was really out of it and feeling a bit lost. And I do find Roger scummy, but I want to give Rhand a chance. So I moved my vote.
Well, people are voting for him with intent to lynch, I would say that is different treatment. Like I said, I agree with Quickhoodies's post. Given kpaca's lack of activity and contribution, it's not a significant loss if we mislynch him (unless he's a PR), but I have a feeling it will be a mislynch. Certainly kpaca's done scummy things this game, but scum who do scummy things try to balance it out with other posts, and that isn't happening here. If kpaca were new to playing as scum, perhaps their inactivity would make sense, but that isn't the case.
As for my bad feelings, you are squeaky clean. You're not taking any stabs that might lead to getting unwanted attention, and the posts that seem townie feel more like opportunities taken to appear town rather than genuine scumhunting. I don't know if you'll get this reference, but your playstyle this game is reminding me a lot of Crossbell's scum games. Time will tell (well, flips), and I'm not interested in lynching you yet, because I factor in the possibility I'm completely wrong and the reason you are squeaky clean is simply because you're town. (You may not be curious, but I think it's worth putting this out there.)
I have really come to hate the to scummy to be scum defense. If it's something town do more than scum it's not scummy behavior and it shouldn't be called that.
And RE I'd say I made some stabs (I lead the charge on QH and Roger being scum), but my strongest stances right now are on my town reads.
"Hey Rhand, can you address this linked post of your predecessor for me, any idea what he's talking about?"
And again, you're voting someone "safe". That tells me that you probably know that your vote is bogus, but feel like that's a good reason.
As an aside, Cantrip just got out of a game where flavor was a total trap, I really doubt he's going to host a game that a flavor slip is even possible.
No impression of him so far. Nothing sticks out to me one way or another. Do you have thoughts on him?
How on earth did you read it as that? I did not mention AG at all nor did I mention "pressure." I said it was troubling that I didn't see people asking kpaca for other reads, or something like that. Yes, it's kpaca's fault for not actually doing anything, but I found it strange that people kept piling on the votes without asking questions or trying get kpaca to be more active. Solely based on kpaca's reactions, it seems like he's not feeling the pressure at all. But anyway, I've never played with kpaca or AG, and I do think that meta is actually pretty reliable, so we'll see. I'll just say compared to the game Vaimes linked, I see little similarity to this game.
Well, you're not wrong. People have different reactions to "whatever," and that was mine. I faked not being a grammar expert, because I was irritated that Terry was once again picking on something that (from my perspective) couldn't make me scum.
Good point, I should have asked (actually, @Rhand, you can treat this as me asking), but I didn't because I assumed the answer would be he didn't know (whether it's true or not). You're misunderstanding me when I say safe. "Safe" doesn't mean bogus, it means I'm relying on something more concrete (a slip) than behavior. If it's not explicitly stated that flavor is NAI, then we can't really be certain, no? Plus I already have a theory on what it means for someone to not "have a specific character name attached to your [their] role."
I think that actually clears RE here.
I think Grapefruit would be the best lynch toDay, but I really won't have time to dig into anything before deadline, and I don't want to push a lynch based on just a few posts.
@Shadow: talk to me here. What is your read on Grape? Any posts you can link that can help me figure out his alignment?
Is this just in reference to this post? Were there any others that make you think he's scum?
1. I'm not sure why you're singling him out as the best lynch when originally you said you're gonna add him to the list of people you want to look at, and then never brought him up again before now (or anyone else on your list, for that matter) that differentiates him from other people you want to look into.
2. How can you think he's the best lynch if you don't even believe you have a good handle on his alignment?
How does it clear me? I'm a little skeptical.
The bolded parts are what gave me that impression. And rereading it I stand by that impression.
You refer to AG by stating the difference between him and Kpaca being the scum reads. You try to absolve his scumminess by saying he hasn't done anything town which you'd expect from town.
As for what you were saying about votes not affecting Kpaca I pretty much agree, but I have to try because he's been overtly scummy this game. As for not asking any questions I'd rather not direct him and I just want any sort of input on the game. Same from AG.
Going to echo the question of how I got singled out from your group of 3. What makes me more likely scum than the others you wanted to look at? Do you no longer find Mind or RE scummy?
Second I'm getting a bit worried about Vaimes. He's now now off the never lynch list. Probably suspecting him for different reasons to everyone else. Still no interest in lynching today, just no longer super townie.
Okay, I'm confused. I thought you were referring to my post #456. This is the conversation I'm seeing (with commentary):
And a bit late, but there's always too scummy for scum. It's just another way of saying not caring enough about appearance to be scum. It works sometimes.
Because your instinct was to compare my role to yours.
re:the Grape suspicion: that is because he never reacted to the sk thing and because of the reason he voted Roger.
This I like.
unvote
The more I think about it, the flavor thing doesn't make sense as a slip. Scum probably would not mention it at all if their flavor differed in any way from town (assuming Mindreaver is town). I mean, I guess that's what would make it a slip in theory, but that's still way too careless coming from scum.
Had a wife but couldn't keep her.
Had another, didn't love her,
Up the chimney he did shove her.
Votecount 1.5 - With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.
Vaimes (2): Wheat_Grinder, kpaca
kpaca (5): AtheistGod, Vaimes, Grapefruit21, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry, shadowlancerx
AtheistGod (1): Mindreaver
shadowlancerx (1): Quickhoodies
Not Voting: RE1031, Rhand, Shinichi
AtheistGod has been prodded. kpaca and Mindreaver will be prodded if they don't post in the next 10-12 hours.
Please inform me of any errors.
Deadline is at 0900 hours MDT on Friday June 29th, ~72 hours from now.
That doesn't really answer either of the questions.
I think I did answer 1?
It's been a while since I've played with Grape, but the last time I did, I recall him saying he's never played as scum. I probably should have asked earlier, but can you link a scum!Grapefruit game?
I don't know about the second part, but the logic behind the first makes sense. If I were mafia, I most likely would not make a fuss over someone having a different kind of flavor. As town, the "natural" reaction to the difference would be to question it, whereas mafia would privately accept that their flavor is different.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/772633-revolution-mafia-game-over-start-of-the-new-era
If Vaimes is scum, RE is scum without question.
If Vaimes is town, RE probably isn't scum. It doesn't feel like a pocket attempt to me, which is the requirement for town Vaimes, scum RE.
I see kpaca, Shinichi, and Rhand being floated as possible lynch targets. I don't like the idea of lynching any of them, particularly Shinichi. I don't really feel like kpaca is scum either, and Rhand is someone I'd expect to contribute more later.
AG I wouldn't really be opposed to. Not really in favor, just not against.
scum under pressure do many things that they wouldn't as town.
Hold on just a second. I reacted to the serial killer thing. I think I may even have been the first to react.
My reaction to Mindreaver's original post is here here. And I had a long back and forth with Roger about that reference. So reading me based on not reacting to the SK reference is just making things up.
@Vaimes It's basically how quickly you leapt to my defense. You've had me as a strong town lean for most of this game, but that was a really quick leap to my defense. I had the same questions for Rhand as you, but I was worried about you trying to tie yourself to me as scum. I have a very egocentric way of playing the game and get worried when people get too comfortable with me. And you stealing the questions I had for Rhand that quickly when you were on leave has me worried. Probably coincidence, but has me worried.
I also had a scum game I replaced out midway through here so combined I have one full game. No ISO feature though so I'm not linking it unless someone really wants to read a whole game that I wasn't in the whole way.
I would agree, but Roger was already receiving attention from other players. The game you linked is actually consistent with my read on Grapefruit, the tone is extremely similar. Also, his reads have been all over the place this page.
I almost want to lynch Vaimes solely to see your reaction. Even if he's scum, well, that's a win/win scenario.
Also, please explain clearly why I am automatically scum if Vaimes is scum. This is twice I've been involved in "dichotomies" and it's annoying because I can't actually defend myself from it because there's no incriminating evidence. It's like me saying you are automatically scum if Vaimes is town, or everyone should lynch Terry when I flip town. These if ___, then ___ almost never work in mafia. You have to work with flips AND new information/posts that follow. Town beat up town all the time, and bussing is a thing. Is there anything else besides me thinking your read on Vaimes is backed up by nothing that would indicate that I am scum?
@Grapefruit
Could you respond to #481? Why did you think I thought people were treating kpaca differently from AG? The first post you quoted did not say that, and even if you assumed I agreed with QH's assessment of the AG/kpaca scenario, why did you ask me instead of QH? Also, QH brought up a lot of good points, why were you so interested in the ones comparing kpaca to AG? You say you are not completely against an AG lynch, but you are rather defensive of him. If you reread the posts I made, you should be able to tell that I was not using AG as a basis for saying kpaca is probably mislynch, but purely kpaca's behavior. Somehow something made you extremely wary of the similarities between kpaca and AG, to the point you assumed I was suspicious of the difference in treatment despite me saying nothing of the sort.
Let me ask you this: if kpaca is scum, what would scum be doing in this situation? Please don't be cute and say it's what I'm doing now.
If we based the votes off of Kpaca posts alone i don't see anythiing wrong with them, He's not trying to defend himself atleast it doesnt seem that way, THe problem is we don't know his alignment. All we can be sure about is if someone Kpaca does get lynched it will be gunranteed if the flip is town that atleast 1 or 2 scum will have been on that train.
Sure!
My replies are underlined!
I made some assumptions about your agreement with the QH post and extrapolated from there causing a chain of misunderstanding. My bad.