Meta means nothing to me lol, ive learned from the past you can play amazingly as town and still flip scum.
Also logically in a closed setup everyones guilty till proven innocent since people can claim and still be scum.
Well then that makes things harder for the both of us. I'm not exactly well at reading people I don't know either.
While true, it's also logical that the majority is town and not mafia. Though, I suppose you meant right now instead of forever when you mentioned kpaca is guilty.
Well ya of course right now, i still think its too early to get a 100% read on any player.
Do you think grapefruit would take away the context of your post as scum or town though?
@RE1031: You are in the number 8 spot. Why do you keep saying that I'm calling you scum? If I had to pick a scum team right this second, assuming there are 3 scum (or even 2 scum and 1 3P), it would be the #12, #11, and #10 spot. Obviously, I not claiming any super mafia abilities that allows me to be exactly right about everyone, so if it ends up being that #12, #11, or #10 don't end up being scum, you of course would be considered by me. You getting so hung up on this isn't helping anything.
I unvoted you with out switching to someone else because I thought your response was decent enough. I needed to read more to decide who was worth my vote after that.
Don't misquote me. I never said "so if kpaca isn't scum, I'd bet RE is". I said that I think there is a chance that you both could be scum and am willing to accept that neither of you could be scum, or any combination of the two. I just gave my reads at the moment and you getting all hot and bothered about it is pretty scummy.
I'm not misquoting you, that's exactly what you said. I don't care if it's making me scummy, I don't get why you're denying your read is hypocritical when it blatantly is. Well, your initial read. Because now you're saying we could both be scum or we could both be not scum, which was not included in your list.
So... Am I just supposed to ignore that I'm listed under "scum lean" because I'm in the number 8 spot and PoE means I'm not scum?
I dont think you should ignore it but ur def getting way to heated over it. Your one of his scum read's doesnt matter how many he has because like he said hes not psychic 10 11 12 could all be town for all we know 2 3 4 could be scum, I normally don't have only 3 scum reads at any moment of the game so idk why you care so much about being number 8.
@terry Ik its ur first read list but whats the point of saying people are scum but then saying they could also be town, doesnt really hold water.
It's really not a big deal where I put you, but your reaction says caught scum. If you're town, get a hold of yourself. If you're scum then please, by all means keep overreacting.
I'm overreacting because your read was hypocritical. Can you at least admit that?
My vote on you was for you to know that I'm serious. I don't see how you can call my vote on kpaca opportunistic when you are scum reading him yourself.
Whats the point of him admitting it tho, does it help you figure out his alignment or just make you feel better?
vote: TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
I'd like for you to answer my questions.
Why did you claim that I was misquoting you? Did you forget what you wrote?
Why is it that in your list I am under "scum lean" because I jumped on kpaca yet you have kpaca under "prob scum," meaning somehow I'd be scum for scumreading kpaca if he were to flip town yet you wouldn't?
Please explain because I'm not understanding how you're coming to these conclusions.
Are you OMGUS ing me on a scum lean read!?
I forgot I wrote that, you win.
I thought your jump on kpaca was weak in reasoning and felt opportunistic. That doesn't really change if he is scum or not. Do busses not exist where you come from?
I'm really not liking your progression on this topic. Take a step back and look at it. If you are town, as you claim, you are hugely (wow, spell check liked that, i guess trump made it a real word) over reacting. You weren't on the top of my list, why is this such a big deal? Lean scum, does not mean scum.
You want to lynch Kpaca? Roger? I don't think you really want to lynch me, you are just mad at me. But why? I literally said there are 4 people I'd rather lynch besides you. In a 12 person game with 3 scum, that would mean by the time I wanted to get to you, assuming nothing changed, with no scum deaths, we'd be on our last day which surely will have evolved my reads.
It's really not a big deal where I put you, but your reaction says caught scum. If you're town, get a hold of yourself. If you're scum then please, by all means keep overreacting.
She's doing it because she thinks ur read is either wrong or just hypocritical it seems. Regardless OMGUS a person no matter the reasons is pretty scummy i gotta say.
Forgetting what you write in a forum that actually allows proper isoing seems odd but maybe that's just me, as scum u should be wary of what you write so the fact that you forget seems more town telling than scum.
Her reaction seems more town than anything but I have way more experience playing with her so scum lean is quite possible.
@RE I agree with your observation on Wheat, but I'm not as sure of your conclusion. Will try to keepan eye on it. What do you think of my case on Roger.
Roger's posts come off to me as mostly town, but I would consider him a very good scum player. Before I dig deeper, I'd like a follow up on that weird flavor thing he said first.
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@RE I agree with your observation on Wheat, but I'm not as sure of your conclusion. Will try to keepan eye on it. What do you think of my case on Roger.
Roger's posts come off to me as mostly town, but I would consider him a very good scum player. Before I dig deeper, I'd like a follow up on that weird flavor thing he said first.
I still want to get into the nitty gritty of Grapefruits case on Roger. I'm started to get the feeling his first language is not english just due to some of his wordings and I wonder if that's making us think he's scum. I know this is an angleshot to hell, but the replace out does not look town.
Whats the point of him admitting it tho, does it help you figure out his alignment or just make you feel better?
Yes. It ticks me off that he has a superior attitude towards his reads when heh, he doesn't really have the right to.
I really don't think the issue should be me thinking my reads are better than yours, because in any situation a person should think that their reads are better than another person's reads because you know your own alignment and don't know others (unless your scum). That being said, I really think that what you are worked up about is that I even suggested that you MIGHT be scum. This screams over defensiveness and is a scum tell.
@terry Ik its ur first read list but whats the point of saying people are scum but then saying they could also be town, doesnt really hold water.
The point is that I'm talking a stance on how I believe people are behaving at that particular point of the game and willing to be held accountable for it. Sure, my reads will change as the game or even the day progresses, like for example, I would say that RE has moved to Prob scum and you are closer to null or lean scum since my last list.
Whats the point of him admitting it tho, does it help you figure out his alignment or just make you feel better?
Yes. It ticks me off that he has a superior attitude towards his reads when heh, he doesn't really have the right to.
I really don't think the issue should be me thinking my reads are better than yours, because in any situation a person should think that their reads are better than another person's reads because you know your own alignment and don't know others (unless your scum). That being said, I really think that what you are worked up about is that I even suggested that you MIGHT be scum. This screams over defensiveness and is a scum tell.
Superior attitude =/= thinking you have better reads
And think what you will, but that's not the case at all. My problem was the hypocriticalness of your read and your refusal to address it, while simultaneously insulting other people's reads. I was not even defending myself, I was attacking your logic and its inconsistency. In regards to you suggesting I might be scum, truthfully, scum most likely would have ignored your list entirely. If I were scum, I really had nothing to worry about, being four places away. But if you want to believe that I'm probably scum because of "over defensiveness" rather than being worked up because of your unjustified attitude, so be it. It's only going to distract you, as your dichotomy would have.
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Whats the point of him admitting it tho, does it help you figure out his alignment or just make you feel better?
Yes. It ticks me off that he has a superior attitude towards his reads when heh, he doesn't really have the right to.
I really don't think the issue should be me thinking my reads are better than yours, because in any situation a person should think that their reads are better than another person's reads because you know your own alignment and don't know others (unless your scum). That being said, I really think that what you are worked up about is that I even suggested that you MIGHT be scum. This screams over defensiveness and is a scum tell.
Superior attitude =/= thinking you have better reads
And think what you will, but that's not the case at all. My problem was the hypocriticalness of your read and your refusal to address it, while simultaneously insulting other people's reads. I was not even defending myself, I was attacking your logic and its inconsistency. In regards to you suggesting I might be scum, truthfully, scum most likely would have ignored your list entirely. If I were scum, I really had nothing to worry about, being four places away. But if you want to believe that I'm probably scum because of "over defensiveness" rather than being worked up because of your unjustified attitude, so be it. It's only going to distract you, as your dichotomy would have.
Guys, you can put away your rulers, my reads are the best
Hey since you bring this up without seeming to care what it actually is, why don't you rank those in order of likelihood with explanations + citing any posts that support your thoughts.
Please prove you're actually participating by giving reads on players and highlighting anything that jumps out at you as being alignment indicative.
TIA.
I don't see what about that interaction indicates TvT, which is why I'm asking how you came to that conclusion. I've already mentioned W_G and shadow as town. The only other thing that's jumped out to me is that Mindreaver feels off.
RE1030: Talk to me about your strongest reads, where are you at? I'm having a tough time figuring you out.
"Figuring me out," do you mean my reads or my behavior? My vote is on Wheat_Grinder, because they have been tunneling Vaimes nearly the entire game, and for reasoning that I cannot understand at all. It feels faked. Roger is also highly suspicious. I don't entirely see Grapefruit's reasoning for suspecting him, but he made a very weird flavor slip that hadn't been explained well. Shinichi is acting like his town self, as far as can tell, although I haven't yet seen a scum game from him. kpaca I don't know what to make of. I looked over the game Vaimes posted, and he was far more emotional in that one compared to now, and he wasn't even leading in the votes at the time in that game. It's hard to tell since he hasn't posted in a while, but I see a strong difference between his gameplay this game and his scum game, so my initial scumread of him is slowly turning to town. Vaimes is my strongest townread. He has been generally helpful; clarifying things & his calling out of AtheistGod. Mindreaver is second, for the soft flavor claim & asking what Terry meant by "mislynching AG," both are towntells for me. AtheistGod is very, very neutral. Their lack of posts is NAI. Initially, I had a strong townread on QuickHoodies, but that's since disappeared as I barely remember anything they've posted. Everything about Grapefruit says town, but I have a bad feeling about him, either because he's actually scum or it's been a while since I've played with him and I'm misremembering his gameplay (or it's changed). You are neutral; you were town up until saying you're having a hard time figuring me out, because I think I've posted plenty. Terry I don't quite see eye to eye with, but I'm going to give it time to see if he comes up with anything else.
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You have posted a lot, but upon reflection I was having a tough time remembering anything you've said; maybe it's me, but for someone to post a significant amount and not make an impression is strange to me. I appreciate your reply, I have a grasp of where you're head is at at least.
It's really not a big deal where I put you, but your reaction says caught scum. If you're town, get a hold of yourself. If you're scum then please, by all means keep overreacting.
I'm overreacting because your read was hypocritical. Can you at least admit that?
My vote on you was for you to know that I'm serious. I don't see how you can call my vote on kpaca opportunistic when you are scum reading him yourself.
Observe the difference in the two reads presented on Kpaca below. One is decent one is built on twigs.
Quote from RSJT »
11. kpaca (Prob Scum) - RVS stuff seemed off/aggressive for RVS, no reasoning or logic behind his votes and his posts, defensive
I see, alright. vote: kpaca
Nobody townreads Shinichi that early. Nobody townreads Shinichi unless they've played with him before. Even if they've played with him before, they don't townread him. It doesn't matter much to me atm if Shinichi is town or scum, only that that's a read I can't buy. To top it off, I don't think I've read any justification behind the read. Yes, I'm sheeping a bit.
Hmm whats wrong with these reads? You barely know Re1031 to me her read makes sense, and so does Terry's read. Coming from people that seem to love meta how u going to compare the 2 votes when 1 player you barely know. This actually feels surpisngly Hypocritical.
RE vs Terry is a strange fight and my first instinct was t/t but I have doubts creeping in on RSJ.
I said before but I feel like its too early to assume it's t/t, espically since alot of people town read terry while the opposite could be said for RE.
If we look at it like that it's most likely T v S or S vs T
JoeTerry, what game are you thinking of when you call me good scum?
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Does anyone else have any experience with kpaca? He's supe UTR.
Same wth AG but I've played with him enough times to know that it's just par for the course with him.
I was following the Champs discussion and I got the impression that yoy were strong in either alignment
You must have been talking to people who don't actually know me. Everyone on my homesite is of the opinion that my scum play is complete *****.
My interactions with you say otherwise, I feel like your scum game would be scary. U instantly turned me into a target, as scum that's a very good trait.
General thought: Kpaca, Hoodies, WG, and Shadow are all a bit under the radar right now. Also Shinichi somehow is as well (at least from my POV) despite leading the post count by a mile.
No one will ever beat my post count except logic haha.
So I was reading your post about astro, how sure are you of him being scum because if there is even a slight amount of doubt I feel like I can't trust that read this early on.
RE vs Terry is a strange fight and my first instinct was t/t but I have doubts creeping in on RSJ.
I said before but I feel like its too early to assume it's t/t, espically since alot of people town read terry while the opposite could be said for RE.
If we look at it like that it's most likely T v S or S vs T
Shin, I think you're missing the point here. And it's probably because of differences in meta. What I think people are looking for is: What about those interactions would point to either Unaligned, T v T, or S v S; in a vacuum. There are specific tells and ways to referring to each other, that might point to one over the others. I don't want to answer this for you, because I think Vaimes is looking for something specific. But you're kinda dancing around it (I don't think it's purposeful, hence this post).
Let me give you an example. RE seemed genuinely tilted at Terry's "hypocrisy". That kind of frustration is actually hard to fake, and equally hard to respond to believably. So if they are both scum, I'd say that was either a brilliant performance, or this interaction is not S v S.
So specifically, what do you think you can glean from this interaction?
@RE1031: Is your read of WG based primarily on your townread of Vaimes? If you think WG's attack itself is scummy rather than just disliking it for attacking a towny player, what specifically did WG say that was scummy?
Also, be very careful with this type of analysis, "Vaimes is my strongest townread. He has been generally helpful". Scum frequently appear generally helpful.
Also, be very careful with this type of analysis, "Vaimes is my strongest townread. He has been generally helpful". Scum frequently appear generally helpful.
I want to put this line inside of a fortune cookie.
AG, what are your thoughts on the people currently pushing you for more content?
Also, be very careful with this type of analysis, "Vaimes is my strongest townread. He has been generally helpful". Scum frequently appear generally helpful.
I want to put this line inside of a fortune cookie.
AG, what are your thoughts on the people currently pushing you for more content?
I just found this amusing because you're asking this and pushing him for more content.
Also, be very careful with this type of analysis, "Vaimes is my strongest townread. He has been generally helpful". Scum frequently appear generally helpful.
I want to put this line inside of a fortune cookie.
AG, what are your thoughts on the people currently pushing you for more content?
I just found this amusing because you're asking this and pushing him for more content.
Huh, I didn't even realize that. Contentception!
Terry what's your current read on AG? Sorry if you've said recently, I don't recall.
@RE1031: Is your read of WG based primarily on your townread of Vaimes? If you think WG's attack itself is scummy rather than just disliking it for attacking a towny player, what specifically did WG say that was scummy?
Actually, no. I read through their posts and the reasoning makes no sense. It's not that WG said something scummy, it's that their attack itself feels very faked. Example: Accusing Vaimes of attempting to pocket WG. I got none of that from Vaime's posts. Also, there's post #255, where WG completely exaggerated and twisted the situation. As for Vaimes being helpful, the "helpful" part I'm referring to specifically are posts #196, #197, and #201. Helpful to me isn't answering questions or posting links to other games, but questioning something that deserves questioning.
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Off my flight but travelling. Will be a bit spotty for the next couple.
One quick reply: Shinichi rather than just saying I shouldn't be confident in my read of Roger because it's early can you point to what's wrong with it? I really don't understand what you're trying to accomplish with that post.
I replaced in because I love Cantrip.
I just started a work-cruise, so it will take me a while to catch up. Also don't expect big activity from me the next 19 days.
I've done replacements into games while on a cruise before, and I noticed that wanting to catch up before engaging was a bad idea because that way it takes me too long to get into the game.
If someone can give me a summary of what has happened so far, that would be great. I will from post reactively to what happens from now on until I actually get the chance to catch up and work retro-actively from there. That will probably not happen before my cruise is finished.
I don't have much of a case but I'm fairly certain Wheat_Grinder is scum. Literally none of their reads make sense and it all seems like scum just trying to look busy. Regardless of whether Vaimes is town or scum (he's more town than scum to me atm), no one should be that focused on one player this early.
@Wheat_Grinder
Who are your suspects besides Vaimes?
There it is. I'm sad I missed it happening in real time.
If you think no one should be focused on one player that much this early then why are you okay with Vaimes when he was so laser-focused on me? And still thought I was town?
Please prove you're actually participating by giving reads on players and highlighting anything that jumps out at you as being alignment indicative.
TIA.
There goes any chance I'd move my vote today.
It's just so anti-Vaimes.
Yay Rhand became someone I don't have reads on.
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Vaimes is 100% scum, RE1031 is his buddy (both for chainsawing and on his own).
Grapefruit, Mindreaver, and Shinichi are all town.
Terry is lean town.
I don't have strong thoughts about Quickhoodies or Rhand.
I have strong feelings about kpaca which are ultimately inconclusive on their own. Vaimes' behavior makes me lean town on him overall though.
AtheistGod is really far in the background it feels like. And I have a gut bad feeling about shadow. I'm thinking one of those two is likely the third scum but there's really just not enough there.
I don't have much of a case but I'm fairly certain Wheat_Grinder is scum. Literally none of their reads make sense and it all seems like scum just trying to look busy. Regardless of whether Vaimes is town or scum (he's more town than scum to me atm), no one should be that focused on one player this early.
@Wheat_Grinder
Who are your suspects besides Vaimes?
There it is. I'm sad I missed it happening in real time.
If you think no one should be focused on one player that much this early then why are you okay with Vaimes when he was so laser-focused on me? And still thought I was town?
Hint: it's because you're scum.
*facepalm*
Because he wasn't? He wasn't tunneling anyone like you are tunneling him? You have been focused on him with unbelievable reasoning. You are completely exaggerating how much Vaimes was focused on you, as well as exaggerating how much people were focused on Shinichi compared to kpaca. And again, you are completely exaggerating what I'm focused on. I cannot buy a single thing you are saying, probably because it's backed up by nothing.
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Okay, I'm done with page 6 and my eyelids feel heavier than osmium so I'll stop here. My reads are starting to take some shape, or so I'd like to believe anyway. I'll insert this one in a spoiler tag to not give you a massive headache each time you scroll around here, because this is one of the good ol' Quickhoodies posts where I type up my comments on various stuff..
I'm actually surprised no one negatively called me out for my long post (108). I was expecting something like "you're overexplaining to Mindreaver what your posts were about. Well, I guess Mindreaver did call me out, following up on his push on me.
but I'm not going to do what AG just did, and come in, say "vaimes and grape, shadow too, wooooooo".
That post of AG rubs me the wrong way, now that you made me think about it. I do my best to not confuse him with Vaimes, those darn images... Anyway, people have been calling on Shin for not explaining his read but not on AG.
I was specifically referring to your post #27, subsection 3. Lol. Where you talked about stuff you obviously were making up and then made a joke about it. I don't know you well enough, but basing reads(?) on stuf you know is dubious and then saying that you know what you're doing is dubious, makes YOU even more dubious. But it might just be your posting style.
So why the worry that you're going to get lynched over the length of your posts? Cause Grape agreed? You seem antsy.
Well darn, sorry for not understanding what you were specifically referring to. You just said my post was too long for what it was worth, I thought you might include my other posts as well in that thinking. I thought it was unfair to say it was about literally nothing. 'but basing reads(?) on stuf you know is dubious'
Sorry (seriously sorry) but I don't even know where you're coming from with this. I'll try something? I didn't know my post was dubious when I posted it, and would have never known about it if you didn't tell me you thought it was dubious. When I was explaining the post to you, I did it under the assumption that it felt like a dubious post because that's what you marked it off as. So I explained why you shouldn't think it's dubious... makes sense?
And I'm not truly worried to get lynched over that. I guess you're right when you say I'm worried about Grape agreeing, though. Never feels good to get punched from two sides. I think Grape doesn't shy off from agreeing with people, and if he feels strongly about things then that makes me feel better. (well hey, #125 is an example of this)
Why do you believe Shinichi couldn't answer the question?
'Wouuld help if tell me what you didn't like unless you expect me to have mind reading powers lol.' (#40)
He says he's missing info to answer it. Anyone who was to take his place there technically could have answered the question but Shin felt like he couldn't. He even lol'd because of how obvious he thought the fact that he can't answer the question was.
I guess it was confusing because I lumped both together, but the question I didn't think was townie was the "why all the pragmatics based questions" part. I actually really liked the question they quoted there and gave me town vibes on Shadow. I did not like the dismissive response to it. Showed that lack of game solving intent that so often comes from scum.
I didn't like shadow's question(s), so I agree with RE1031: Grape, my man, you know that's what I was implying with my 'pragmatics' comeback. I'm not solving the game, I'm saying shadow's questions are out of this world. And I didn't need to question him about his questions because that wouldn't be relevant to my point.
I knew WG was gonna scumread me at some point based on how he treated me in that silly cult mini, so I'd probably be sketched out if he were townreading me early on.
I don't know about that game, but it feels to me like you're brushing off WG's vote on you as 'something that was expected to happen.' I'm not sure you get what I'm saying but it's like you're telling everyone that WG's vote holds no real weight.
Honestly this prob silly but this post alone gives huge town vibes, because he instead of skipping rvs actually incorporated it into his first post while also leaving it.
Honestly we've all expressed our thoughts on Terry's entrance and we've all said it looks good so no it's not silly just parrot-y. Dun dun dunnn.
Hey, somehow I could guess he was Astros. His entrance was in the style of good old Astros (what with the long post after a couple of days), so I feel good about it. Too bad I've never seen him play scum.
If anything it gives me a slight scum read of shadow a very small one at that tho, because asking questions to push the thread is not something scum would necessarily would do, but the would do it to try to create fasle accusations.
Creating false accusations sounds like something scum would do, so you're kind of contradicting yourself, but I do get your point. All things said, Shadow's question felt scummy to me because of this.
Nobody townreads Shinichi that early. Nobody townreads Shinichi unless they've played with him before. Even if they've played with him before, they don't townread him. It doesn't matter much to me atm if Shinichi is town or scum, only that that's a read I can't buy. To top it off, I don't think I've read any justification behind the read. Yes, I'm sheeping a bit.
I got town vibes from Shinichi in the first pages. Fight me. Looking at kpaca's posting style I didn't even take his read on Shin seriously though, lol.
QH is more of a shrugread. I think it'd be weird for scum to be accused of making large empty posts, by responding to that accusation with an even bigger wallpost going over his own past posts to make a point. Reads more as towny defiance/snark.
So if I'm scum I don't think carefully about what I'm doing and if I'm town I'm a prickly bastard, is what you're saying? I'm not sure how to feel about this but I think I like your line of thinking.
As it stands, there is nothing ruling out you two being on the mafia team together. There's a small link re: kpaca townreading you for reasons that are nonexistent or flimsy.
Mmh, from my (completely reliable!) experience, those kinds of super early townreads are more often made by scum to protect town, not by scum to protect scum. So yeah, that defense by kpaca looked too obvious to come from scum protecting scum, I'm not sure why he would have singled out his scum partner like that in his 'townreads list.' So yeah, in this I feel like Shinichi has more chances of being the townie, if both aren't.
I don't like this vote. Seems like an early bandwagon disguised as thought. I town read Sinichi early, well pretty close to that, I didn't see anything outwardly scummy. I'm just not feeling the sincerity.
Oh sweet, Terry agrees with me in his own way. Not sure I would scumread RE though, his vote looked decent. I can sort of see where he's coming from because it's true that Shinichi is a mislynch magnet.
Yeah, that's actually how I felt about it too, but I wanted to do something slightly productive. So I thought it was a little weird that you voted right after me.
Damn, town vibes anyone? Never seen a mafia admit that they weren't onto anything big but still (basically) say "meh, I just wanted to look like I've been doing something."
I can only recall one game I played in with WG, some micro with a cult mechanic. He scumread me most of D1 for some reason, can't remember and don't feel like looking it up, then he reversed his read on me when I self-voted. Basically I feel like he's handling me in a similar fashion.
Were you scum in that game (or cult, whatever)? I'm curious, this somewhat matters.
Though the way he's handling me also means that trying to interact with him will suck the fun out of the game for me. It gives off a very "you're scum so I don't care about anything you have to say," vibe, which I don't feel like subjecting myself to. So I'll interact with other people and he'll see I'm town sooner or later.
Mmh, I said earlier in this post of mine that I felt you were just brushing aside the issue by belittling WG's vote, but your lines here (especially the last sentence) almost convince me that you genuinely don't want to deal with WG. I'm confused now.
When someone says "I don't think xyz is scummy," that does not register as a townread to me. It registers as null.
Same here, but in the end, one can only be of one of two alignments. So while it's fair to null-read people in the meantime, if ultimately someone is not scummy, he will be considered a townie.
I don't recall that playstyle from you. That said, I also don't mind being wrong. I'll reread Titanic Ultimatum soon. If you do play like that, then I'll reconsider the read. But if you don't play like that, it's the last nail in the coffin because it means you're trying to play like you think you do when you're town.
You could literaly, during your rereading of that game, find some posts of Vaimes and contextualize them your way to present them to us as so and no one would notice. The part I bolded just makes it look like you've set up every weapon and wall needed to surround Vaimes.
kpaca says he doesn't have a strong read on anyone, everybody is okay with it
vaimes says he doesn't have a strong read on anyone, everybody is okay with it
shinichi says he doesn't have a strong read on anyone NOW EVERYONE IS PISSED
Is it just me or everything WG says in this post is just false? There are people who weren't okay with kpaca and vaimes' reads. And I'm pretty sure just as many people are okay with Shinichi than not okay with him.
Wait, cite the posts where people are pissed at Shinichi.
Oh see, even a drunk Vaimes agrees, haha.
---
I was gonna focus on Mindreaver because he was onto me until I saw #184. This post screams town on a deep level to me because of how much it mirrors my thoughts on the game start. I'm more and more positive that one of Vaimes or WG is scum. If Mindreaver happens to be scum somehow, I'm not sure who would be aligned with him. The post suggests he would be scum with kpaca because he favors him over WG (unless I misunderstood), but Mindreaver could be doing a fake FOS on WG, by which I mean he's declaring that he's suspecting WG but he still ends up voting for someone with reasons that are weaker. Pretty common with scum. Kind of like bussing without actually bussing. Doesn't really matter though if Mindreaver is town, which I think he most likely is. And not sure I'd call his vote on AG any weaker than a potential vote on WG. (props to Vaimes for mentioning something about it here, though!)
Pages 7-8 left to read.
Who feels town to me: Terry, Roger/Rhand, Shinichi, Mindreaver
I can understand the scumreads on Roger, but I know him like that so I'm less fazed by his barrage of questions. Honestly hard to read because he's all about the analysis, I see he has been replaced now, though.
Who I'm not sure what to think of: RE1031, kpaca, AG, Vaimes, Grape
Vaimes is definitely town if WG is scum. Wait, can I really say that? These two seem to have some kind of history where one used to scumread the other pretty hard. It's possible that they're playing around with this scenario again but this time they're both scum and they're using it to distract. Some kind of weird plotting by these two is not out of the picture for me.
Who I'd say is scummy: shadowlx, WG, (if there's a third one, for now I'd say it's AG, I guess. Much like everyone I don't like what he has done so far.)
Matter of fact, I don't even think Wheat and shadowlx have interacted once, which makes me feel even better about this listing. Then again, Wheat has only really interacted with Vaimes, lol.
Unvote Vote: shadowlancerx
This spreads out the vote count even more than it already was, so I feel bad to do this, but I do think shadowlx is the most likely scum. Hopefully after having fully caught up I will be able to focus even more on him.
@Quick: you say " Anyway, people have been calling on Shin for not explaining his read but not on AG."
Does that lead to any conclusions at all? It seems like a weird thought to just put out there and not do anything with.
1. The assertion that I've been focusing on him more than I've been focusing on Shinichi is...wrong, not to mention self-centered. Again. Pushing a lie that blatant as scum would be ???.
2. I'm not following the "Terry good > RE bad" progression.
3. "It's just so anti-Vaimes" ??? what do you presume to know about me.
Vaimes: I believe there is a strong chance that shin and kpaca are partners, what is your take?
Well, considering I've been scumreading them since page one... :/
I think Shinichi is displaying a pattern of showing no inclination of a villager thinking about the game. His questions feel extremely shallow, he makes comments and then doesn't follow up on them.
I know absolutely nothing about kpaca and found his townread on Shinichi questionable. Was hoping a vote would flush him out and at least produce something, even a "ur OMGUS'ing me scum scum scum" type post.
I might just ignore WG completely because he's confbiasing, bad, or possibly scum. Don't think he's scum right now.
AG just. He feels even less involved, which is super annoying (and to answer his question, I townread Mindreaver and RE independently, though less certain on Mind).
Hey Rhand, I appreciate your Iso-impression (Attitude of "I'm not here to reread, I'm here for scum finding"), and I don't really need a full reread from you. But would you look over Roger's posts? I think there are like 3 or 4, and give any impressions you have? Anything you'd like to correct or change?
I am currently fine lynching your slot, even though I'm not ready to end the day quite yet. So if there was a time for something dazzling, this is it.
Well ya of course right now, i still think its too early to get a 100% read on any player.
Do you think grapefruit would take away the context of your post as scum or town though?
I dont think you should ignore it but ur def getting way to heated over it. Your one of his scum read's doesnt matter how many he has because like he said hes not psychic 10 11 12 could all be town for all we know 2 3 4 could be scum, I normally don't have only 3 scum reads at any moment of the game so idk why you care so much about being number 8.
@terry Ik its ur first read list but whats the point of saying people are scum but then saying they could also be town, doesnt really hold water.
why not S v S or
S v T
T V S
I think its too early to assume its T v T
Whats the point of him admitting it tho, does it help you figure out his alignment or just make you feel better?
She's doing it because she thinks ur read is either wrong or just hypocritical it seems. Regardless OMGUS a person no matter the reasons is pretty scummy i gotta say.
Forgetting what you write in a forum that actually allows proper isoing seems odd but maybe that's just me, as scum u should be wary of what you write so the fact that you forget seems more town telling than scum.
Her reaction seems more town than anything but I have way more experience playing with her so scum lean is quite possible.
Roger's posts come off to me as mostly town, but I would consider him a very good scum player. Before I dig deeper, I'd like a follow up on that weird flavor thing he said first.
Yes. It ticks me off that he has a superior attitude towards his reads when heh, he doesn't really have the right to.
Edit: kpaca, Quickhooodies, and Wheat_Grinder have all been prodded.
The point is that I'm talking a stance on how I believe people are behaving at that particular point of the game and willing to be held accountable for it. Sure, my reads will change as the game or even the day progresses, like for example, I would say that RE has moved to Prob scum and you are closer to null or lean scum since my last list.
My dame has lost her head,
My master's lost in Waltham Cross,
And knows not that he's dead.
Votecount 1.3
Mindreaver (1): Quickhoodies
Vaimes (2): Wheat_Grinder, kpaca
kpaca (2): AtheistGod, Vaimes
Shinichi (1): shadowlancerx
AtheistGod (1): Mindreaver
Roger Sherman (2): Grapefruit21, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (1): RE1031
Not Voting: Roger Sherman, Shinichi
Please inform me of any errors.
A replacement for Roger Sherman is being sought.
Deadline is at 0900 hours MDT on Friday June 29th.
Superior attitude =/= thinking you have better reads
And think what you will, but that's not the case at all. My problem was the hypocriticalness of your read and your refusal to address it, while simultaneously insulting other people's reads. I was not even defending myself, I was attacking your logic and its inconsistency. In regards to you suggesting I might be scum, truthfully, scum most likely would have ignored your list entirely. If I were scum, I really had nothing to worry about, being four places away. But if you want to believe that I'm probably scum because of "over defensiveness" rather than being worked up because of your unjustified attitude, so be it. It's only going to distract you, as your dichotomy would have.
Asking questions won't get me that far if it isn't coupled with this.
Votecounts 1.2 and 1.3 have been corrected.
As always, please inform me of any errors.
TIA.
I don't see what about that interaction indicates TvT, which is why I'm asking how you came to that conclusion. I've already mentioned W_G and shadow as town. The only other thing that's jumped out to me is that Mindreaver feels off.
RE1030: Talk to me about your strongest reads, where are you at? I'm having a tough time figuring you out.
Shinichi: Would you agree with the earlier assertion that you're always scum read, and if so, why do you think you are?
AG: what feels off about Mindreaver, I find him to be pretty divergent from how he was in Mistborn; he's actually making quite a bit of sense.
Vaimes: I believe there is a strong chance that shin and kpaca are partners, what is your take?
I'll respond to this game tomorrow
"Figuring me out," do you mean my reads or my behavior? My vote is on Wheat_Grinder, because they have been tunneling Vaimes nearly the entire game, and for reasoning that I cannot understand at all. It feels faked. Roger is also highly suspicious. I don't entirely see Grapefruit's reasoning for suspecting him, but he made a very weird flavor slip that hadn't been explained well. Shinichi is acting like his town self, as far as can tell, although I haven't yet seen a scum game from him. kpaca I don't know what to make of. I looked over the game Vaimes posted, and he was far more emotional in that one compared to now, and he wasn't even leading in the votes at the time in that game. It's hard to tell since he hasn't posted in a while, but I see a strong difference between his gameplay this game and his scum game, so my initial scumread of him is slowly turning to town. Vaimes is my strongest townread. He has been generally helpful; clarifying things & his calling out of AtheistGod. Mindreaver is second, for the soft flavor claim & asking what Terry meant by "mislynching AG," both are towntells for me. AtheistGod is very, very neutral. Their lack of posts is NAI. Initially, I had a strong townread on QuickHoodies, but that's since disappeared as I barely remember anything they've posted. Everything about Grapefruit says town, but I have a bad feeling about him, either because he's actually scum or it's been a while since I've played with him and I'm misremembering his gameplay (or it's changed). You are neutral; you were town up until saying you're having a hard time figuring me out, because I think I've posted plenty. Terry I don't quite see eye to eye with, but I'm going to give it time to see if he comes up with anything else.
Hmm whats wrong with these reads? You barely know Re1031 to me her read makes sense, and so does Terry's read. Coming from people that seem to love meta how u going to compare the 2 votes when 1 player you barely know. This actually feels surpisngly Hypocritical.
I said before but I feel like its too early to assume it's t/t, espically since alot of people town read terry while the opposite could be said for RE.
If we look at it like that it's most likely T v S or S vs T
My interactions with you say otherwise, I feel like your scum game would be scary. U instantly turned me into a target, as scum that's a very good trait.
No one will ever beat my post count except logic haha.
So I was reading your post about astro, how sure are you of him being scum because if there is even a slight amount of doubt I feel like I can't trust that read this early on.
Let me give you an example. RE seemed genuinely tilted at Terry's "hypocrisy". That kind of frustration is actually hard to fake, and equally hard to respond to believably. So if they are both scum, I'd say that was either a brilliant performance, or this interaction is not S v S.
So specifically, what do you think you can glean from this interaction?
AG, what are your thoughts on the people currently pushing you for more content?
Terry what's your current read on AG? Sorry if you've said recently, I don't recall.
Actually, no. I read through their posts and the reasoning makes no sense. It's not that WG said something scummy, it's that their attack itself feels very faked. Example: Accusing Vaimes of attempting to pocket WG. I got none of that from Vaime's posts. Also, there's post #255, where WG completely exaggerated and twisted the situation. As for Vaimes being helpful, the "helpful" part I'm referring to specifically are posts #196, #197, and #201. Helpful to me isn't answering questions or posting links to other games, but questioning something that deserves questioning.
One quick reply: Shinichi rather than just saying I shouldn't be confident in my read of Roger because it's early can you point to what's wrong with it? I really don't understand what you're trying to accomplish with that post.
Welcome Rhand!
I replaced in because I love Cantrip.
I just started a work-cruise, so it will take me a while to catch up. Also don't expect big activity from me the next 19 days.
I've done replacements into games while on a cruise before, and I noticed that wanting to catch up before engaging was a bad idea because that way it takes me too long to get into the game.
If someone can give me a summary of what has happened so far, that would be great. I will from post reactively to what happens from now on until I actually get the chance to catch up and work retro-actively from there. That will probably not happen before my cruise is finished.
So @Terry: I have no idea.
i wonder who he is
time to find out
---
I still don't think Shinichi is scum. I think him and Mindreaver are so organic together that neither can be scum.
Feeling pretty good about terry throughout the start of page 7.
Which in turn makes me feel less good about RE1031. I think Vaimes is calling that fight TvT which makes me only feel worse about Vaimes.
god and then he votes kpaca
There it is. I'm sad I missed it happening in real time.
If you think no one should be focused on one player that much this early then why are you okay with Vaimes when he was so laser-focused on me? And still thought I was town?
Hint: it's because you're scum.
you don't just say that it's pressure, then it's empty and meaningless.
There goes any chance I'd move my vote today.
It's just so anti-Vaimes.
Yay Rhand became someone I don't have reads on.
---
Vaimes is 100% scum, RE1031 is his buddy (both for chainsawing and on his own).
Grapefruit, Mindreaver, and Shinichi are all town.
Terry is lean town.
I don't have strong thoughts about Quickhoodies or Rhand.
I have strong feelings about kpaca which are ultimately inconclusive on their own. Vaimes' behavior makes me lean town on him overall though.
AtheistGod is really far in the background it feels like. And I have a gut bad feeling about shadow. I'm thinking one of those two is likely the third scum but there's really just not enough there.
*facepalm*
Because he wasn't? He wasn't tunneling anyone like you are tunneling him? You have been focused on him with unbelievable reasoning. You are completely exaggerating how much Vaimes was focused on you, as well as exaggerating how much people were focused on Shinichi compared to kpaca. And again, you are completely exaggerating what I'm focused on. I cannot buy a single thing you are saying, probably because it's backed up by nothing.
That post of AG rubs me the wrong way, now that you made me think about it. I do my best to not confuse him with Vaimes, those darn images... Anyway, people have been calling on Shin for not explaining his read but not on AG.
Well darn, sorry for not understanding what you were specifically referring to. You just said my post was too long for what it was worth, I thought you might include my other posts as well in that thinking. I thought it was unfair to say it was about literally nothing.
'but basing reads(?) on stuf you know is dubious'
Sorry (seriously sorry) but I don't even know where you're coming from with this. I'll try something? I didn't know my post was dubious when I posted it, and would have never known about it if you didn't tell me you thought it was dubious. When I was explaining the post to you, I did it under the assumption that it felt like a dubious post because that's what you marked it off as. So I explained why you shouldn't think it's dubious... makes sense?
And I'm not truly worried to get lynched over that. I guess you're right when you say I'm worried about Grape agreeing, though. Never feels good to get punched from two sides. I think Grape doesn't shy off from agreeing with people, and if he feels strongly about things then that makes me feel better. (well hey, #125 is an example of this)
'Wouuld help if tell me what you didn't like unless you expect me to have mind reading powers lol.' (#40)
He says he's missing info to answer it. Anyone who was to take his place there technically could have answered the question but Shin felt like he couldn't. He even lol'd because of how obvious he thought the fact that he can't answer the question was.
I didn't like shadow's question(s), so I agree with RE1031: Grape, my man, you know that's what I was implying with my 'pragmatics' comeback. I'm not solving the game, I'm saying shadow's questions are out of this world. And I didn't need to question him about his questions because that wouldn't be relevant to my point.
I don't know about that game, but it feels to me like you're brushing off WG's vote on you as 'something that was expected to happen.' I'm not sure you get what I'm saying but it's like you're telling everyone that WG's vote holds no real weight.
Honestly we've all expressed our thoughts on Terry's entrance and we've all said it looks good so no it's not silly just parrot-y. Dun dun dunnn.
Hey, somehow I could guess he was Astros. His entrance was in the style of good old Astros (what with the long post after a couple of days), so I feel good about it. Too bad I've never seen him play scum.
Creating false accusations sounds like something scum would do, so you're kind of contradicting yourself, but I do get your point. All things said, Shadow's question felt scummy to me because of this.
I got town vibes from Shinichi in the first pages. Fight me. Looking at kpaca's posting style I didn't even take his read on Shin seriously though, lol.
Sounds pretty damn neutral to me. I mean, I wouldn't want my butt unsaved either. Especially if there's someone endlessy biting it.
Not taking townreads on him for granted, yup, Shinichi definitely feels town.
So if I'm scum I don't think carefully about what I'm doing and if I'm town I'm a prickly bastard, is what you're saying? I'm not sure how to feel about this but I think I like your line of thinking.
Mmh, from my (completely reliable!) experience, those kinds of super early townreads are more often made by scum to protect town, not by scum to protect scum. So yeah, that defense by kpaca looked too obvious to come from scum protecting scum, I'm not sure why he would have singled out his scum partner like that in his 'townreads list.' So yeah, in this I feel like Shinichi has more chances of being the townie, if both aren't.
Oh sweet, Terry agrees with me in his own way. Not sure I would scumread RE though, his vote looked decent. I can sort of see where he's coming from because it's true that Shinichi is a mislynch magnet.
Damn, town vibes anyone? Never seen a mafia admit that they weren't onto anything big but still (basically) say "meh, I just wanted to look like I've been doing something."
Were you scum in that game (or cult, whatever)? I'm curious, this somewhat matters.
Mmh, I said earlier in this post of mine that I felt you were just brushing aside the issue by belittling WG's vote, but your lines here (especially the last sentence) almost convince me that you genuinely don't want to deal with WG. I'm confused now.
>Guy gets called out for coming in only to forcibly make a read.
>Does it again.
Help.
Same here, but in the end, one can only be of one of two alignments. So while it's fair to null-read people in the meantime, if ultimately someone is not scummy, he will be considered a townie.
You could literaly, during your rereading of that game, find some posts of Vaimes and contextualize them your way to present them to us as so and no one would notice. The part I bolded just makes it look like you've set up every weapon and wall needed to surround Vaimes.
Can agree. I usually go by the townreading-with-process-of-elimination manual.
How would you know? I thought you played only one other game with him, where he was town. Unless you're the kind to spectate. Or unless I misread.
Is it just me or everything WG says in this post is just false? There are people who weren't okay with kpaca and vaimes' reads. And I'm pretty sure just as many people are okay with Shinichi than not okay with him.
Oh see, even a drunk Vaimes agrees, haha.
---
I was gonna focus on Mindreaver because he was onto me until I saw #184. This post screams town on a deep level to me because of how much it mirrors my thoughts on the game start. I'm more and more positive that one of Vaimes or WG is scum. If Mindreaver happens to be scum somehow, I'm not sure who would be aligned with him. The post suggests he would be scum with kpaca because he favors him over WG (unless I misunderstood), but Mindreaver could be doing a fake FOS on WG, by which I mean he's declaring that he's suspecting WG but he still ends up voting for someone with reasons that are weaker. Pretty common with scum. Kind of like bussing without actually bussing. Doesn't really matter though if Mindreaver is town, which I think he most likely is. And not sure I'd call his vote on AG any weaker than a potential vote on WG. (props to Vaimes for mentioning something about it here, though!)
Pages 7-8 left to read.
Who feels town to me: Terry, Roger/Rhand, Shinichi, Mindreaver
I can understand the scumreads on Roger, but I know him like that so I'm less fazed by his barrage of questions. Honestly hard to read because he's all about the analysis, I see he has been replaced now, though.
Who I'm not sure what to think of: RE1031, kpaca, AG, Vaimes, Grape
Vaimes is definitely town if WG is scum. Wait, can I really say that? These two seem to have some kind of history where one used to scumread the other pretty hard. It's possible that they're playing around with this scenario again but this time they're both scum and they're using it to distract. Some kind of weird plotting by these two is not out of the picture for me.
Who I'd say is scummy: shadowlx, WG, (if there's a third one, for now I'd say it's AG, I guess. Much like everyone I don't like what he has done so far.)
Matter of fact, I don't even think Wheat and shadowlx have interacted once, which makes me feel even better about this listing. Then again, Wheat has only really interacted with Vaimes, lol.
Vote: shadowlancerx
This spreads out the vote count even more than it already was, so I feel bad to do this, but I do think shadowlx is the most likely scum. Hopefully after having fully caught up I will be able to focus even more on him.
Does that lead to any conclusions at all? It seems like a weird thought to just put out there and not do anything with.
1. The assertion that I've been focusing on him more than I've been focusing on Shinichi is...wrong, not to mention self-centered. Again. Pushing a lie that blatant as scum would be ???.
2. I'm not following the "Terry good > RE bad" progression.
3. "It's just so anti-Vaimes" ??? what do you presume to know about me.
---
Well, considering I've been scumreading them since page one... :/
I think Shinichi is displaying a pattern of showing no inclination of a villager thinking about the game. His questions feel extremely shallow, he makes comments and then doesn't follow up on them.
I know absolutely nothing about kpaca and found his townread on Shinichi questionable. Was hoping a vote would flush him out and at least produce something, even a "ur OMGUS'ing me scum scum scum" type post.
I might just ignore WG completely because he's confbiasing, bad, or possibly scum. Don't think he's scum right now.
AG just. He feels even less involved, which is super annoying (and to answer his question, I townread Mindreaver and RE independently, though less certain on Mind).
Grape still town.
Don't reeeally have strong opinions elsewhere.
Now I don't have any more strong opinions.
I am currently fine lynching your slot, even though I'm not ready to end the day quite yet. So if there was a time for something dazzling, this is it.
WELCOME TO THE MIND OF THE GRINDER
Vaimes: '"It's just so anti-Vaimes" ??? what do you presume to know about me.'
The color of your role PM for starters
I came to the realization from posts 283/284 specifically.