Okay, let's run through the town!Az worlds assuming no busted reads (never a safe assumption, especially this early, but the exercise is useful):
As a reminder, assuming 0-1 scum on my wagon ({shadow}), 1-2 scum on the Osie wagon {D_V, Anak, Huntzilla}, 1-2 scum off both wagons {Iso, tomsloger}.
Shadow, D_V, Iso - doubt it, don't think shadow and D_V are buddies
Shadow, D_V, tomsloger - again, this is a D_V/Shadow team and thus unlikely. Also, would D_V and tomsloger really be willing to both vote Az despite lacking townie support if they were scumbuddies?
Shadow, Anak, Iso - pretty much the scumteam equivalent of a nullread (nothing to support or refute this team)? That's true for basically every Anak/Iso team, actually - Iso's been too inactive and off to the side to generate strong connections, Anak's PR has had the same effect.
Shadow, Anak, tomsloger - Plausible. Shadow/tom haven't really interacted, and Anak is Anak.
Shadow, Huntzilla, Iso - Leaning against this team, but with low confidence because it's based on an assessment of how Hunt would act on it. Hunt's play so far gutfeels like if he's scum then he's the deep wolf, and considering Iso's reputation and Huntzilla's middling scumgame deepwolf!Hunt doesn't mesh well with scum!Iso.
Shadow, Huntzilla, tomsloger - Much more plausible than the Iso version, given how lynchable tom tends to be.
D_V, Anak, Iso - another Anak/Iso team, so perfectly plausible
D_V, Anak, tomsloger - again, D_V/Tom teams require that both D_V and Tom were willing to vote Az despite lacking any support from town.
D_V, Huntzilla, Iso - another Hunt/Iso team, same reason for being skeptical as before.
D_V, Huntzilla, tomsloger - See previous D_V/Tom comments, but this is the one team where a coordinated scum assault on Az might make sense - if this is the team then Az has nailed two of them D1, and that's a situation I could see scum try to counterattack to try to discredit the attacker (Chainsaw Defense!).
Anak, Huntzilla, Iso - another Hunt/Iso team, previous comments apply.
Anak, Huntzilla, tomsloger - Don't see any reason why not?
D_V, Iso, tomsloger - Again, requires D_V and Tom to both be scum voting Az without support. Making a special note of this one, however - I've got gutfeels that this team is actually plausible in spite of that.
Anak, Iso, tomsloger - Again, all the Anak/Iso teams are plausible to me.
Huntzilla, Iso, tomsloger - See previous comments on Hunt/Iso.
So, best-fit teams in town!Az world are {Shadow, Anak, Iso}, {Shadow, Anak, Tom}, {Shadow, Hunt, Tom}, {D_V, Anak, Iso}, {Anak, Hunt, tom}, {Anak, Iso, tom}, maybe {D_V, Hunt, Tom}, maaaaaaybe {D_V, Iso, Tom}. All three scum on the Osie wagon isn't out of the realm of possibility, in which case the team would be exactly {D_V, Anak, Hunt}; I'm dubious about the possibility of no scum on the Osie wagon, but {Shadow, Iso, Tom} feels plausible enough outside of that to not discount it completely.
Actually, looking at that... I don't like D_V's play, but there's not a lot of scumteams that make sense for him since I think he's anti-aligned with shadow *and* tomsloger. There's the D_V version of the little black dress scumteam {Anak/Iso/X} and a couple of "I think my argument against these two players being buddies is less likely to be accurate in the case of this specific team" and that's it. Couple that with being the first player to suggest mass name claim (fairly bold move for scum) and there's a pretty good chance I'm wrong on D_V and he's town.
So, I'm rereading the game and I just realized how much I dislike Tare's 68. It's kind of a roller coaster, and a little stretchy. Particularly the "if you have the name, you have a strong idea of what the role could be. Is it egregious enough to be a strawman, though? And would scum!Tare be that obvious about it?
@Anak: Do you think there are scum on the Tare wagon? If so, who?
@Hunt: In 94, you say in the middle of it that you "would put your vote down hard if it wasn't so early in the Day" but then at the end of it you vote for Osie because she "isn't at L-2". In 127 you say you didn't want her to self-hammer, implying you WANTED to vote her but only if her wagon was at a certain point. If this is the case, why claim to be 'on the fence'? Explain your mindset here.
@Az: can you go through your T/S list and put some reasons to those names please?
@Tare: in 114, you say again that you still think Cyan is town. Orginally you said it was because you thought all the scum had posted already. You upped him to a strong townread, where he still apperently sits in 164. Do you have a more substancial reason now?
@Tare: What is the question in 116 supposed to accomplish?
@Tare: in 117, you ask Az to expand on Iso, DV, and Cyan. I notice Anak is missing. Do you have a read on Anak, and if so, what is it?
Tares 164 makes a lot of assumptions. I feel like that makes it wholly illogical.
@Tom: In 189 you vote Hunt for backing off the Osie wagon. You didn not say anything when I did the same. Explain please.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Why do you need a read list from me? There's other people with read lists. I've listed my top two scum. Poked and prodded at a few people. A read list from me is just so unnneccesary.
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KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
hollow content is content that actually means a whole bunch of nothing. My content is the exact opposite.
I go for quality not quantity of words.
Well you're not succeeding with either. Seriously, do a read list, get into this game instead of posting crap that doesn't actually do anything but take up space. If you're town, make it show, if you're not, then keep doing what you're doing, I'll PoE lynch you when the time comes.
Well you're not succeeding with either. Seriously, do a read list, get into this game instead of posting crap that doesn't actually do anything but take up space. If you're town, make it show, if you're not, then keep doing what you're doing, I'll PoE lynch you when the time comes.
hahahahahahaha.
I've accomplished twice as much this game as you have amigo.
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Well you're not succeeding with either. Seriously, do a read list, get into this game instead of posting crap that doesn't actually do anything but take up space. If you're town, make it show, if you're not, then keep doing what you're doing, I'll PoE lynch you when the time comes.
hahahahahahaha.
I've accomplished twice as much this game as you have amigo.
Go ahead and list your accomplishments. And while your at it, that read list would be great. Unvote, Vote kpaca
Go ahead and list your accomplishments. And while your at it, that read list would be great. Unvote, Vote kpaca
You must think I'm new at this or something lol. It's going to take a lot more than that to scare me homie.
You assume I haven't seen your name in previous games I've read? No, I don't think you're new at this, I think you're never going to be out of my PoE, and you're lack of anything of substance means I'd rather be rid of you now instead of later.
I have no interest in scaring you, I do think your reads will be useful once you flip, so might as well put them down.
You assume I haven't seen your name in previous games I've read? No, I don't think you're new at this, I think you're never going to be out of my PoE, and you're lack of anything of substance means I'd rather be rid of you now instead of later.
I have no interest in scaring you, I do think your reads will be useful once you flip, so might as well put them down.
Man you are really into wasting your own time which is ironic since you're accusing me of wasting people's time.
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So asking you game related questions is wasting my own time?
How about this, a direct question, tell me specifically what you see that indicates that tom is scum.
So asking you game related questions is wasting my own time?
How about this, a direct question, tell me specifically what you see that indicates that tom is scum.
Voting me is wasting your time.
And I'm voting taredas rn. So there's not much of a reason to spend any amount of time discussing tomslog. That'll be later.
What exactly have you accomplished this game?
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So asking you game related questions is wasting my own time?
How about this, a direct question, tell me specifically what you see that indicates that tom is scum.
Voting me is wasting your time.
And I'm voting taredas rn. So there's not much of a reason to spend any amount of time discussing tomslog. That'll be later.
What exactly have you accomplished this game?
Disagree
Strongly disagree
Well for one, managed to not be a total waste of screen space.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I was voting for dumb reasons. Kpaca, seriously, can you at least try and move the game forward? Or answer my questions?
Bro. It's a slow dance that moves into a waltz.
We're on page five let the soup simmer some.
The last mini I played that was a "slow dance", turned into the date leaving me standing by the punch bowl when she went to "use the bathroom", so forgive me if I'm not interested in continuous filler (see Janken Mafia)
The last mini I played that was a "slow dance", turned into the date leaving me standing by the punch bowl when she went to "use the bathroom", so forgive me if I'm not interested in continuous filler (see Janken Mafia)
shoulda grabbed her butt one time.
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KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Maybe Az is right and the nervousness I'm seeing is not scum nervousness.
Maybe I should also check Avalon to see what she did that game to see if it compares.
... Do I need to rethink my Killjoy townread? Because this reads like how I tend to bail off of scumreads as scum (like how I bailed off AI in Return to Ravnica).
It's a 100% classic mislynch/misread of a new townie player. And I hate that Taredas was trying to contribute to it in the limp-wristed, inauthentic fashion that he did. It was pretty awful.
You're quite right that my opening vote was inauthentic. You're just wrong about *why*.
As I commented on back in signups, my tonal analysis reads have been giving me bad results lately - see the 2015 Invitational, and there's a couple of games I've lurked offsite while I didn't have time to play (the Mafia Championships and a game or two on 'Scum). It's gotten to the point where having a strong tonal townread on a player is a reason to *scumread* that player. So I've busted out a few of my older tricks, including a classic from MafiaScum Large Normals - run a vote on a scummy-but-I'm-not-sure-they're-scum player early D1 and see how many people bite. (Think I talked about this back in Redux Mirror, where it didn't work due to a combination of a voting restriction and a wagon-averse group of players.)
Which is exactly what I was doing with Osie. He was scummy enough that I was comfortable breaking RVS to vote him, but thought it was entirely possible that my first instincts were wrong and Osie was, in fact, town. I could have voted my *other* scumread (shadow), but I wanted to keep him on the backburner until he'd answered why he was supporting D_V's mass name claim suggestion. So I ran Osie up the flagpole. (To put it another way, I was trying to answer the question "are we in a world where the Osie wagon will gain lots of support or are we in a world where the Osie wagon flames out like a damp squib?".)
Only problem was, the technique I was using is one I developed for *Large* Normals (usually 16 players or more), where the lynch threshold is 8 or higher. More problematically, D_V had placed a true random vote, and in Minis the third vote has the combined effect of the third and fourth vote in a Large - I wanted to see if the Osie wagon would blow up but didn't want to force it to do so. Hence, a vote with no belief behind it. I mean, I guess I could have just *not posted*, but **** that noise - especially since I *did* want to get shadow's explanation for supporting nameclaim without tipping him off that I considered it voteworthy. Almost certainly botched the execution, but :shrug:.
And... I'm not even sure why I'm bothering to type this, because I kind of think I'm the correct lynch toDay given the gamestate *despite knowing I'll flip town* (assuming Az is town, but at this point I think that is the case). Not going to push through my own lynch, but not going to fight it either.
(Really wish Cyan hadn't morphed into MTGS's equivalent of DGB [aka Kami of Lunacy in the Crosstown games] sometime around the 2015 Invitational - would be a lot more confident .)
I agree with him you could stop trying to play so cryptic despite the pr.
These waters remain uncharted, though not for lack of trying.
Great devotion yields great reward.
nice
id like to be in charge of reading anak please. because im good at it and posting restrictions are my bailiwick.
so far, town. especially if he's really me. i'm always town in this setup.
Not sure if this makes {Anak, Tom, X} more or less likely, but I think this probably comes from a scum mindset either way?
And while I'm trying not to put much stock in tonal analysis the little nagging voice in my head is reading tomsloger's posts and going "wait, are you *sure* you're reading this game and not SG-1/Mind Screw?".
And tom fits into basically all of the scumteams.
Yeah, kinda think tom's more likely to flip scum than shadow at this point.
Unvote, Vote: tomsloger
(Hi Az! Welcome to inauthentic reasoning based on "I'm not going to have the time/opportunity to actually see whether my new techniques work this game, so **** putting more work into this game than the bare minimum".)
Actually, considering that I've 99% burned any chance of being the N1 Mafia kill I should probably just claim (even setting aside "deadline and wagon state says you should consider claiming") - if I can't draw the N1 Mafia kill my ability is better off in the open so that the relevant players know to take it into account when using their abilities.
I'm Vaimes, all-around nice person and antidote to Mafia burnout. There's two burnouts I'd expect to be in the game given the mechanic and the number of players, and as you might expect given my flavor I've got one of them: I can burnout to let another player reuse their own burnout. This doesn't let the target reuse their regular abilities, and it only works on players who have already burned out (hence why I need to claim, because if I'm *not* lynched toDay then the roles with strong burnouts need to consider firing early). No other abilities.
(The other burnout I expect in the game is a vig shot. Suspect there's 4-5 strong town burnouts total [counting the vig] plus 1 or 2 strong scum burnouts that I don't want to recharge; design senses say scum are likely to have a permablock/ mass roleblock/"deplete target player's burnout" as a burnout, so keep that in mind.)
So, I'm rereading the game and I just realized how much I dislike Tare's 68. It's kind of a roller coaster, and a little stretchy. Particularly the "if you have the name, you have a strong idea of what the role could be. Is it egregious enough to be a strawman, though? And would scum!Tare be that obvious about it?
@Anak: Do you think there are scum on the Tare wagon? If so, who?
@Hunt: In 94, you say in the middle of it that you "would put your vote down hard if it wasn't so early in the Day" but then at the end of it you vote for Osie because she "isn't at L-2". In 127 you say you didn't want her to self-hammer, implying you WANTED to vote her but only if her wagon was at a certain point. If this is the case, why claim to be 'on the fence'? Explain your mindset here.
@Az: can you go through your T/S list and put some reasons to those names please?
@Tare: in 114, you say again that you still think Cyan is town. Orginally you said it was because you thought all the scum had posted already. You upped him to a strong townread, where he still apperently sits in 164. Do you have a more substancial reason now?
@Tare: What is the question in 116 supposed to accomplish?
@Tare: in 117, you ask Az to expand on Iso, DV, and Cyan. I notice Anak is missing. Do you have a read on Anak, and if so, what is it?
Tares 164 makes a lot of assumptions. I feel like that makes it wholly illogical.
@Tom: In 189 you vote Hunt for backing off the Osie wagon. You didn not say anything when I did the same. Explain please.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
And... I'm not even sure why I'm bothering to type this, because I kind of think I'm the correct lynch toDay given the gamestate *despite knowing I'll flip town* (assuming Az is town, but at this point I think that is the case). Not going to push through my own lynch, but not going to fight it either.
(Really wish Cyan hadn't morphed into MTGS's equivalent of DGB [aka Kami of Lunacy in the Crosstown games] sometime around the 2015 Invitational - would be a lot more confident .)
As a reminder, assuming 0-1 scum on my wagon ({shadow}), 1-2 scum on the Osie wagon {D_V, Anak, Huntzilla}, 1-2 scum off both wagons {Iso, tomsloger}.
Shadow, D_V, Iso - doubt it, don't think shadow and D_V are buddies
Shadow, D_V, tomsloger - again, this is a D_V/Shadow team and thus unlikely. Also, would D_V and tomsloger really be willing to both vote Az despite lacking townie support if they were scumbuddies?
Shadow, Anak, Iso - pretty much the scumteam equivalent of a nullread (nothing to support or refute this team)? That's true for basically every Anak/Iso team, actually - Iso's been too inactive and off to the side to generate strong connections, Anak's PR has had the same effect.
Shadow, Anak, tomsloger - Plausible. Shadow/tom haven't really interacted, and Anak is Anak.
Shadow, Huntzilla, Iso - Leaning against this team, but with low confidence because it's based on an assessment of how Hunt would act on it. Hunt's play so far gutfeels like if he's scum then he's the deep wolf, and considering Iso's reputation and Huntzilla's middling scumgame deepwolf!Hunt doesn't mesh well with scum!Iso.
Shadow, Huntzilla, tomsloger - Much more plausible than the Iso version, given how lynchable tom tends to be.
D_V, Anak, Iso - another Anak/Iso team, so perfectly plausible
D_V, Anak, tomsloger - again, D_V/Tom teams require that both D_V and Tom were willing to vote Az despite lacking any support from town.
D_V, Huntzilla, Iso - another Hunt/Iso team, same reason for being skeptical as before.
D_V, Huntzilla, tomsloger - See previous D_V/Tom comments, but this is the one team where a coordinated scum assault on Az might make sense - if this is the team then Az has nailed two of them D1, and that's a situation I could see scum try to counterattack to try to discredit the attacker (Chainsaw Defense!).
Anak, Huntzilla, Iso - another Hunt/Iso team, previous comments apply.
Anak, Huntzilla, tomsloger - Don't see any reason why not?
D_V, Iso, tomsloger - Again, requires D_V and Tom to both be scum voting Az without support. Making a special note of this one, however - I've got gutfeels that this team is actually plausible in spite of that.
Anak, Iso, tomsloger - Again, all the Anak/Iso teams are plausible to me.
Huntzilla, Iso, tomsloger - See previous comments on Hunt/Iso.
So, best-fit teams in town!Az world are {Shadow, Anak, Iso}, {Shadow, Anak, Tom}, {Shadow, Hunt, Tom}, {D_V, Anak, Iso}, {Anak, Hunt, tom}, {Anak, Iso, tom}, maybe {D_V, Hunt, Tom}, maaaaaaybe {D_V, Iso, Tom}. All three scum on the Osie wagon isn't out of the realm of possibility, in which case the team would be exactly {D_V, Anak, Hunt}; I'm dubious about the possibility of no scum on the Osie wagon, but {Shadow, Iso, Tom} feels plausible enough outside of that to not discount it completely.
Actually, looking at that... I don't like D_V's play, but there's not a lot of scumteams that make sense for him since I think he's anti-aligned with shadow *and* tomsloger. There's the D_V version of the little black dress scumteam {Anak/Iso/X} and a couple of "I think my argument against these two players being buddies is less likely to be accurate in the case of this specific team" and that's it. Couple that with being the first player to suggest mass name claim (fairly bold move for scum) and there's a pretty good chance I'm wrong on D_V and he's town.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
@Anak: Do you think there are scum on the Tare wagon? If so, who?
@Hunt: In 94, you say in the middle of it that you "would put your vote down hard if it wasn't so early in the Day" but then at the end of it you vote for Osie because she "isn't at L-2". In 127 you say you didn't want her to self-hammer, implying you WANTED to vote her but only if her wagon was at a certain point. If this is the case, why claim to be 'on the fence'? Explain your mindset here.
@Az: can you go through your T/S list and put some reasons to those names please?
@Tare: in 114, you say again that you still think Cyan is town. Orginally you said it was because you thought all the scum had posted already. You upped him to a strong townread, where he still apperently sits in 164. Do you have a more substancial reason now?
@Tare: What is the question in 116 supposed to accomplish?
@Tare: in 117, you ask Az to expand on Iso, DV, and Cyan. I notice Anak is missing. Do you have a read on Anak, and if so, what is it?
Tares 164 makes a lot of assumptions. I feel like that makes it wholly illogical.
@Tom: In 189 you vote Hunt for backing off the Osie wagon. You didn not say anything when I did the same. Explain please.
lol what?
Because you are currently voting town while simultaneously providing incredibly hollow content.
Also I unvoted, so I'm not voting for Osie anymore.
I want people to answer my questions. I'd love to see the readlist shadow is asking for with reasons as well,actually.
I go for quality not quantity of words.
I've accomplished twice as much this game as you have amigo.
Unvote, Vote kpaca
You must think I'm new at this or something lol. It's going to take a lot more than that to scare me homie.
I have no interest in scaring you, I do think your reads will be useful once you flip, so might as well put them down.
Man you are really into wasting your own time which is ironic since you're accusing me of wasting people's time.
How about this, a direct question, tell me specifically what you see that indicates that tom is scum.
Voting me is wasting your time.
And I'm voting taredas rn. So there's not much of a reason to spend any amount of time discussing tomslog. That'll be later.
What exactly have you accomplished this game?
Strongly disagree
Well for one, managed to not be a total waste of screen space.
Well how rude.
I was voting for dumb reasons. Kpaca, seriously, can you at least try and move the game forward? Or answer my questions?
Bro. It's a slow dance that moves into a waltz.
We're on page five let the soup simmer some.
I'll have some thoughts here tonight/tomorrow morning.
Just from reading the last post, I'm confident in declaring Kpaca town if that matters.
Taredas (4) - Azrael, kpaca, Cyan, shadowlancerx
osieorb18 (1) - Anaklusmos
D_V (2) - Iso, osieorb18
shadowlancerx (1) - Taredas
Azrael (1) - D_V
Huntzilla (1) - tomsloger
Not Voting (2): Huntzilla, Killjoy
With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch. Deadline is at Thursday 23rd of March, 9:59PM GMT.
No, I'm pretty sure kpaca is right, and they're both town. Shadow's just getting irritated by kpaca's playstyle, which is not that surprising.
I'm not yet convinced that Taredas is scum. They're more in the middle with a positive lean.
I'm going to be busy until tomorrow afternoon at least, maybe tomorrow evening.
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It's a useful tool/starting point, in that it's a proxy for the questions I'm actually trying to answer.
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... Do I need to rethink my Killjoy townread? Because this reads like how I tend to bail off of scumreads as scum (like how I bailed off AI in Return to Ravnica).
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You're quite right that my opening vote was inauthentic. You're just wrong about *why*.
As I commented on back in signups, my tonal analysis reads have been giving me bad results lately - see the 2015 Invitational, and there's a couple of games I've lurked offsite while I didn't have time to play (the Mafia Championships and a game or two on 'Scum). It's gotten to the point where having a strong tonal townread on a player is a reason to *scumread* that player. So I've busted out a few of my older tricks, including a classic from MafiaScum Large Normals - run a vote on a scummy-but-I'm-not-sure-they're-scum player early D1 and see how many people bite. (Think I talked about this back in Redux Mirror, where it didn't work due to a combination of a voting restriction and a wagon-averse group of players.)
Which is exactly what I was doing with Osie. He was scummy enough that I was comfortable breaking RVS to vote him, but thought it was entirely possible that my first instincts were wrong and Osie was, in fact, town. I could have voted my *other* scumread (shadow), but I wanted to keep him on the backburner until he'd answered why he was supporting D_V's mass name claim suggestion. So I ran Osie up the flagpole. (To put it another way, I was trying to answer the question "are we in a world where the Osie wagon will gain lots of support or are we in a world where the Osie wagon flames out like a damp squib?".)
Only problem was, the technique I was using is one I developed for *Large* Normals (usually 16 players or more), where the lynch threshold is 8 or higher. More problematically, D_V had placed a true random vote, and in Minis the third vote has the combined effect of the third and fourth vote in a Large - I wanted to see if the Osie wagon would blow up but didn't want to force it to do so. Hence, a vote with no belief behind it. I mean, I guess I could have just *not posted*, but **** that noise - especially since I *did* want to get shadow's explanation for supporting nameclaim without tipping him off that I considered it voteworthy. Almost certainly botched the execution, but :shrug:.
And... I'm not even sure why I'm bothering to type this, because I kind of think I'm the correct lynch toDay given the gamestate *despite knowing I'll flip town* (assuming Az is town, but at this point I think that is the case). Not going to push through my own lynch, but not going to fight it either.
(Really wish Cyan hadn't morphed into MTGS's equivalent of DGB [aka Kami of Lunacy in the Crosstown games] sometime around the 2015 Invitational - would be a lot more confident .)
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Not sure if this makes {Anak, Tom, X} more or less likely, but I think this probably comes from a scum mindset either way?
And while I'm trying not to put much stock in tonal analysis the little nagging voice in my head is reading tomsloger's posts and going "wait, are you *sure* you're reading this game and not SG-1/Mind Screw?".
And tom fits into basically all of the scumteams.
Yeah, kinda think tom's more likely to flip scum than shadow at this point.
Unvote, Vote: tomsloger
(Hi Az! Welcome to inauthentic reasoning based on "I'm not going to have the time/opportunity to actually see whether my new techniques work this game, so **** putting more work into this game than the bare minimum".)
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
I'm Vaimes, all-around nice person and antidote to Mafia burnout. There's two burnouts I'd expect to be in the game given the mechanic and the number of players, and as you might expect given my flavor I've got one of them: I can burnout to let another player reuse their own burnout. This doesn't let the target reuse their regular abilities, and it only works on players who have already burned out (hence why I need to claim, because if I'm *not* lynched toDay then the roles with strong burnouts need to consider firing early). No other abilities.
(The other burnout I expect in the game is a vig shot. Suspect there's 4-5 strong town burnouts total [counting the vig] plus 1 or 2 strong scum burnouts that I don't want to recharge; design senses say scum are likely to have a permablock/ mass roleblock/"deplete target player's burnout" as a burnout, so keep that in mind.)
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."