Can you talk to me about these two. Is the order important? Because I don't really get why from your perspective Delphine should be lower than Iso? Is passivity so damning for you?
Order not really important for my two scum reads. I kinda feel that either I've not been objective at all and Iso is actually town (and Delphine scum) or I've just been misreading Delphine's playstyle a lot (and Iso is still scum).
Though his proposed team of Iso/Delphine/Nacho with Nacho as his second highest townread is a bit... horrific.
Eh, I mean in the world that two scum were happy to hop onto my wagon at 4 votes, I think the third scum would have to be someone I'm townreading heavily...
Good lord I suck at foruming.... Really need to remember to preview things before posting...
@Pozzai Anyway I reread Regfan and you and I just don't see it. Yes he's disregarding meta, but he's giving a solid reason to do so. It's definitely lowered my town read confidence a little bit. But like all his interactions with you seem normal to me.
@tomsloger I'm more inclined to believe you wrt to scum Iso tells today than I was yesterday for raisins. Still think we should lynch x=y and be done with it though.
@tomsloger I'm more inclined to believe you wrt to scum Iso tells today than I was yesterday for raisins. Still think we should lynch x=y and be done with it though.
You are almost certainly correct. He's a perfectly fine lynch, and I think everyone wants the flip.
@Grapefruit: I don't even remember if you made me upset but you probably didn't and even if you did it obviously didn't leave much of an impression on me! So, no worries - I'm also just playing the game.
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@tom: Okay, so which is it? Are you the Iso meta expert or aren't you? With regards to autopilotIso, I was on autopilot for the first part of Murders in Townville. I've been a successful townie so far in this game because I'm about to lynch scum. With regards to Pozzai, he had a fairly distinct personality in video Mafia and once I was reminded of where I knew him from, it all came back to me.
If Day is still open tonight after work, I'll get to #224 and #226 for you.
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@Nacho: I don't remember specifically anything Typhrous has said, but I remember his early posting being more important that his "lolz brb guise" (obviously).
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@Vaimes: RE: #547: Someone gets it!
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@X=Y: If you're wrong about both Delphi and myself, who's scum?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@X=Y: If you're wrong about both Delphi and myself, who's scum?
tom would be my first instinct - simply because he's arranged himself in such a way that he's free to push further on you D2 after I flip town. in a town!iso world, his vote on you is a bit like why I'm suspicious of Regfan, especially the bit where he pulled back on his reasoning on Iso/me being unaligned - his Iso vote seems a bit of a vanity vote in that case, whilst he is still happy with my lynch.
I'd also say Regfan, but in the case my reads have been so wrong that neither of you are scum I'd probably start to look at my null and lean town reads a lot more.
Though I think I'm strongly town-reading Grapefruit now for this post. I moderately disliked his earlier comment about thinking my summary/reads post seems towny BUT early stuff means the vote stays (especially since it was after a couple other people expressed that). I kinda feel like some scum at least would sort of mention that so they don't look like they were totally off base after my flip. I think for someone who hasn't hitched his ride to my wagon throughout D1, coming back and sort of doubling down on it - I just can't see scum doing.
Vaguely going over Ophidia's posts again and still getting a weird feeling from them; I guess the best way to put it is that they make me uncomfortable.
I've played, oh, two or three games with him. And he was town in all of them (minus a Micro scumgame, but I'm not really counting that since the setup was very different). But for some reason, he chose this game to suddenly highlight how "new" he is.
Bringing up that English is not his native language is, uh. I don't want to cross any lines here, but he never brought it up before, and to be honest I never would have guessed that it wasn't his first language.
So what I'm thinking is more likely is that he rolled scum for the first time, and is trying to build up some wiggle room, some "hey guys if you notice anything ~weird~ about my posts it's because of these convenient reasons that I never mentioned in any of my other towngames." That makes more sense to me than him just...suddenly deciding that he wants to play the newbie card for the first time.
And it's one of the reasons I'm side-eyeing Newcomb. I thought Ophidia was laying it on pretty thick with his "people are right to suspect me, I didn't answer Vaimes' question and that was scummy" that Newcomb handwaved as earnest or whatever.
In fact, the only natural thing I find towny about him is how he sassed me in response to suspecting him (and even that's being pretty generous), but I learned my lesson with holding "weaker" players to a lower standard of playing.
@X=Y: If you're wrong about both Delphi and myself, who's scum?
tom would be my first instinct - simply because he's arranged himself in such a way that he's free to push further on you D2 after I flip town. in a town!iso world, his vote on you is a bit like why I'm suspicious of Regfan, especially the bit where he pulled back on his reasoning on Iso/me being unaligned - his Iso vote seems a bit of a vanity vote in that case, whilst he is still happy with my lynch.
If a world somehow existed in which you and Iso were both town, this is an excellent point.
In case you get NK'd N1, I'd like your thoughts on the game state down assuming I was town. Am I completely off base on Iso being scummy in that world where he slapped down scum reads he doesn't explain, and then a vote he doesn't really explain? Who are the top town on my wagon and off it?
Decently strong townreads on Grapefruit, tom, Iso. Maybe Typhrous if Ophidia is scum. Maaaybe Nacho. Dunno about Regfan, still think his early Nacho townread was a red flag, which probably looks /better/ for Nacho than not if Regfan is indeed scum.
Regfan
Newcomb
DelphiBlue
Ophidia
Pozzai
xequalsy
Leaves six names for three mafia, in an ideal world. Maybe two is more realistic; highly doubt all six of these names are town, unless I'm absolute trash at this game.
My postgame cred read is that Ophidia is scum, and got some sick coaching from Newcomb. Dunno if xequalsy makes sense with them, but we'll see.
(Still reading so I won't vote yet.)
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x=y, I want to end the Day because we're reaching the point where the thread is going to become overloaded with information that will make rereading a chore, as well as cause people to second-guess themselves too much without hard information to check against. It's one of the main reasons I waffle and mafia becomes a chore for me: information overload. Words words words, 90% of which is spam or NAI.
tom, I swear if you don't stop asking me questions that make me think I should be scumreading Nacho when you're townreading him, I will eat the chocolate heart I got you.
(I don't know if you've changed your read on him, just assuming you haven't.)
At a glance, it doesn't really ping me as much. Nacho's reasoning feels more honest and objective, whereas Newcomb's felt like he was trying to nudge me into overlooking it.
x=y, I want to end the Day because we're reaching the point where the thread is going to become overloaded with information that will make rereading a chore, as well as cause people to second-guess themselves too much without hard information to check against. It's one of the main reasons I waffle and mafia becomes a chore for me: information overload. Words words words, 90% of which is spam or NAI.
I take your point, but from the direction of the thread, I get the feeling that almost everyone (I can't even really name anyone off the top of my head who isn't up for my lynch for one reason or another) is ready for the day to end today or maybe tomorrow at the latest (as in 14/02 or the 15/02 depending on time zones).
But it seems hasty when Typhon has just said he's come back now and ready to post something (which seems important given he was actually absent for most of the day after slapping a vote down on me) for example. It doesn't actually seem like the day is in any danger of dragging on too long without a flip.
It doesn't really seem sensible to me for the day to end before we get at least some of that or a post from Newcomb/Regfan/Nacho.
I have incredibly vague and weak "Delphine is doing her scum thing where she sits on the outskirts and rambles about things that don't really advance her understanding of the game" pings.
It's a very specific thing where I feel like, as scum, she tries to have super detailed, wordy, and (sometimes) convoluted reads to compensate for her inability to genuinely solve the game, as well as throwing out empty questions.
It took me the better part of 9 hours of prep to complete post #545, as sad as that is, so yeah, I'm feeling a bit differently now than before that. I'm feeling like I don't believe that you really cared to meta anyone you said upteen times that you were going to meta since you're not doing it now, though.
I mean, I was planning to do that last weekend before something came up RL. But yeah, I don't really feel like doing that now, when my meta reads on you/Iso/Pozzai aren't really going to change anyone else's minds.
I like most of Nachos discussion re; his way of reading me or what he is looking out for inside #541, it's all fairly accurate. I also liked his discussion re; X=Y's read on me inside #544, it's one of the few reads of X=Y's that I actually follow in that he's not wrong about me being fairly happy with either of himself or Pozzai being the lynch today given I've got decent scum reads on the both of them here and think they make plenty of sense as scum together.
I really like Delphis 'walked through thought process' inside #575 and very much agree with her in that X=Y is coming across as robotic which is one of the bigger concerns I have with his reads post, most of them are based on fairly weak reasoning and his scum reads particularly lack conviction behind them; think her point about him having difficulty faking scum reads is a very solid one.
I don't exactly agree with Vaimes; re Ophidias ESL comment being alignment indicative but agree with him on the over emphasis of the 'new' mentions and find Vaimes thought process inside #586 to come across as very genuine and like is interactions with Tom that follows, still feel pretty good about him being town.
X=Y's comment of "Assess the game with me flipping town now" inside #588 comes across very forced; him focusing on posting around that rather than pushing or elaborating more on his scum reads makes very little sense as town and feels more like mafia attempting to force a town-tell.
@Vaimes - Know we've touched on this conversation before but can you give me a quick cliffs note version on your Typhon town read; there's a few posts of his earlier I liked but think his continued avoidance and lack of activity inside the thread (even before/after his V/LA period) is a problem and need to try and work out if this is just me being too hard on him given a conversation I had with him after SVM about this game or not.
So pretty up to date now, would bet a lot on Vaimes/Tom/Newbcomb all being town. Feel pretty good about Grapes/Nacho being town and have weak town reads on Delphi/Iso. Think the scum team is probably some combination of Pozzai/X=Y/Ophi/Typhon in descending likelihood.
Also my CEO has moved to sit directly behind me today for no explained reason, this is awkward as **** and means I probably won't be able to post much more at work.
Because that was an incredibly weak way to say don't lynch me yet! You didn't defend yourself or give a viable alternative. You just gave up and accepted it while giving people time to share their thoughts. If you were town and giving up I don't see you caring if other people get their thoughts in because everyone is scum reading you and all their opinions are warped by that glaring misread of the game. As scum it buys you and your partners more time to tie people to your wagon and obfuscate other reads.
Since you're looking for things to say I'd appreciate a full t/s list with everyone on and sorted by relative strength of reads.
Also my CEO has moved to sit directly behind me today for no explained reason, this is awkward as **** and means I probably won't be able to post much more at work.
It probably has something to do with Tammy, should watch what you say about her and maybe the CEO problem will go away!
I have incredibly vague and weak "Delphine is doing her scum thing where she sits on the outskirts and rambles about things that don't really advance her understanding of the game" pings.
It's a very specific thing where I feel like, as scum, she tries to have super detailed, wordy, and (sometimes) convoluted reads to compensate for her inability to genuinely solve the game, as well as throwing out empty questions.
Does my Delphi read in 428 do anything to further convince of Delphi's vague scumminess?
Her recent posts with images attached hasn't done much to convince me she's town.
I mostlu want to hear Nachos up to date reads and something from Typhon (Although his VLA being extended means this isnt all that likely) before a hammer.
Also my CEO has moved to sit directly behind me today for no explained reason, this is awkward as **** and means I probably won't be able to post much more at work.
It probably has something to do with Tammy, should watch what you say about her and maybe the CEO problem will go away!
<that *****>, she gives my boss crabs and is now the reason my CEO is hanging around like a bad smell!
Part of my read on X=Y here stemmed from the way he approached my opening post. Literally everyone else ignored it, and his response was basically, "Plan on providing any content, CC? /loran" I made the post to see if anybody called me out on not saying anything, and from my general experience, I find that the people that tend to do that are more often scum looking like they have something to say than not.
With regards to #226:
X=Y specifically asked about two people that were not him that I listed as scum, which felt like he wanted me to elaborate on the other two reads, as well, but like he was too afraid of looking self-conscious to actually ask about my read on him. He manages to discredit said reads in the same breath. He also brings up Ophidia out of the blue and hard-defends him, there, for things that are more likely to come from scum than town but pretending that isn't the case. Additionally, he refers to Typhrous's actions as "interesting", and his vote on me was absolute garbage - of all the people he can think to vote at that point, he chooses to vote me to explain my reads, rather than asking me and voting for scum? Did he think he was going to be pressuring me? How does that make sense for a vote, contextually? One thing I notice scum often do is vote for things that they shouldn't be voting for. It's actually one of Void's biggest scumtells - he'll ask a question or say something that looks like he's scumhunting but then he'll vote off of it and it will completely have the wrong tone for the situation. That's exactly what X=Y's vote felt like, here. (And if we wanna get really anal about it, it's also a vote that lacks fire, as he votes me, tells me to explain my reads...and then tacks on a "please".)
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Iso I appreciate the Socratic approach (playing with people who use it helps make me a better player), and I'm not trying to take away from the fact that you were a part of getting the ball rolling on x=y. My only issue is that it doesn't clear you.
It moves you out of the PoE for now easily, but not to the point where it won't be revisited depending on later flips. You are already one of my top town reads, I'm not sure what else you want there. I'm not going to treat you like you've been mechanically confirmed but I am going to continue town reading you, especially if x=y flips scum.
You are correct that you didn't do the heavy lifting, but I think you're giving yourself too much credit to say that no one was looking at x=y before your post.
In 150 Newcomb referred to x=y's 89 in a negative sense before you mentioned your 4 scum reads.
In your 150 you call out x=y, regfan, vaimes, and me and give no indication which one you find scummiest.
Before your 282 where you zero in on x=y, 4 people either focus on or scum read x=y. tom almost immeadiately pulls him out of your list and questions just that one. Reg and I scum read x=y in back to back posts in 204 and 205. And Typh votes them making his own case. All of this before you throw your weight behind your X=y read. Yes your scum read of x=y was part of what drew my eye to him, but what did moreso was Newcomb calling out the scummy post in the middle of his wall.
So yes you were an integral part of it, despite tom's claim to the contrary. Does it happen without you? I think so just not as quickly or easily. So no I don't disagree with your premise that you were part of the lynch. Which I did not disagree with in my sarcastic previous post either. I just saw a contradiction in your posts with regards to you taking credit and pointed it out. To the people not clearing you for it, I'd imagine they feel the same way I do, that you are less likely to be scum for it, but not wanting to write you off because it could have been a turbo bussing gambit as unlikely as it seems. Which is where Regfan settled as well.
So in short, I'm sorry if my sarcastic post made you angry. It was intended in fun and to let others see the contradiction in case it was alignment indicative. I'm also sorry if I came across as a total creep for talking about knowing your meta without playing with you. I have a crappy job where I sit at a computer all day. I play online chess and read mafia games like they're detective novels to pass the time. I didn't mean to offend you, just trying to play the game.
This is just. Not a w/w conversation. I'd probably lock clear the other if one of Iso/Grapefruit flipped wolf here.
tom is 100% aware of all of this with regards to the way I play Mafia seeing as I talk about it often enough (and Newcomb SHOULD be, having played in the Invitational, but according to tom, he doesn't learn these sorts of things terribly well?) and that is why I will see tom dead if he continues to prompt me to be a less effective Mafia player.
Ok Iso. Since I'm fully aware of this I guess I'm an expert.
I've never seen you not share your thoughts before. You do that sometimes? Please provide an example of a game where you've done that, and I will read it, or at least your iso. I vastly prefer the Iso that beats you over the head with his thoughts. If you're town, bring that one back.
I have seen you in autopilot mode twice. Once as as scum in [ongoing game], and once as town in Titanic Ultimatum when we lynched you and won despite you. But as many times as you were wrong in TU (~many)... well, let me let recently lynched Iso tell it:
I have single-handedly generated more reactions and information from everybody about their alignment than anybody else. If that is not the definition of being a successful townie on Day 1, then I am the worst Mafia player alive.
And we all know that can't be true.
So what is it that you've done in this game to be a successful townie? I've just been through your iso, and the answer is nothing.
So, you've finally given a reason for the Pozzai read. He's off the cuff. I get that. But I don't think that means a lot for some players, me in my normal playstyle being a pretty obvious example. And even with "normal" players it wouldn't mean much in this situation, because Pozzai pretty clearly didn't know what was going on in thread or talk about anything relevant with those off the cuff posts.
One specific thing:
Quote from iso »
The extent of my experience with Pozzai is over video Mafia and I found him fairly easy to read there
What made you remember this experience? I seem to recall you not remembering in signups, and now this is so confident.
And since you've still haven't given your initial reason for scumreading xequalsy... would you? At least comment on 224/226 which are his contentful posts between you putting him on a team with zero thought and you dropping your vote with the stated intention to stay all day.
I'd say something similar about this - the prickly, pointed aggression just feels too natural - but because of the specific people involved I'd probably stop well short of lock clearing in the case that one flipped wolf.
Oh, just regarding my #504:
That is not a case that xequalsy/Iso are w/w. They could be is the only point I am trying to make. But if someone can show me how they are hard unaligned, I will promptly start townreading xequalsy because Iso is very probably scum here.
The bolded was a lie. I just went back to remind myself why I wanted to lynch him in the first place and it... still stands.
In order of preference: Iso>xequalsy>>>>>>>>Pozzai
I think this snapback from tom's pretty genuine and towny. It also kind of matches some internal musing I'd been doing, so.
I find Grapes big post dedicated to Iso inside Post #515 to come across as very town and like his interactions with Tom about Isos meta in the following post. I want to take a look at the meta myself, might do it on the bus on the way to work otherwise when I get home. The interaction between both Tom/Grapes there strengthens my town read on both actually.
Also don't want a hammer until I've had time to read X=Y's promised reads post and assess it properly.
@Nacho - I don't want to discuss Ophidia with you until you're fully caught up since most of my real concerns with the slot are based on his recent postings. I'll go into my Newcomb & Grapes town reads today though. As for your Post #530, I think one of scums biggest difficulties is in the very early game, entering the thread and staying active is something that scum struggle to do so yes I think Typhons point there is solid but yes, there were others that did a similar thing so it's not something solely attributed to X=Y. Eh, I really didn't like X=Y's Grapes interjection.
I agree, but that makes me think of Nacho more than anyone else. Like, I haven't read ahead yet, but as of the post I'm quoting, Nacho's in full-on commentary mode. He's asking things, and he's thrown out a ton of "I see where you're coming from but I disagree" type stuff - like, taking issue with specific tidbits, specific reads, but then not really going anywhere with it.
DelphiBlue - I've talked already about the passivity that I dislike. But in #480, I don't buy that her entire game view is so distorted by my play that she needs my flip to reconsider the game state.
What if I told you that I agreed with Delphine's stance; i.e. I also believe it's going to be next to impossible to move on from this gamestate until we resolve your alignment?
So yeah, please look at Iso&DelphiBlue D2 - in particular, please get her to fully explain #355, I'm sure N1 is long enough for her to formulate her experience on trying to read me this game.
Especially if Pozzai also turns out to be town, please come back and re-evaluate D1 being mostly t/t. I think Delphine would almost certainly be scum there.
If you do flip town I've had similar thoughts about wolf complacency D1, so. I think I've talked about this before even picking out Delphine, but this is a good reminder.
So yeah, please look at Iso&DelphiBlue D2 - in particular, please get her to fully explain #355, I'm sure N1 is long enough for her to formulate her experience on trying to read me this game.
Especially if Pozzai also turns out to be town, please come back and re-evaluate D1 being mostly t/t. I think Delphine would almost certainly be scum there.
No need to get all fake resigned. Should be posted in 9-10 hours.
I feel like there's something really incongruous with Delphine's tone here but it's not something that's coming immediately to mind so this is essentially a bookmark.
@Pozzai reading your posts makes me feel a bit slow because I'm not comprehending your Regfan case at all. Can you explain it to me in simple terms? What I got out of it is that you don't like how he skips asking you why you asked questions and he's making a case and behaving in the same way to the behavior that he's calling out. But I have no idea if I'm parsing that correctly.
In short:
I fail to see how Regfan scumreading me for basically playing identically to what he's experienced in another media ever comes from a town pov.
What Regfan is calling out for being 'scummy' is for me my personality. It seems that he's pushing "what is in general considered scummy" over "what is considered scummy of this said individual", he's then backing it up with 0 interest in what any of the questions he consider scummy from me, no interest in determining my thought process, because it is easier to just stick to "guys, this is overall a scumtell on more people than not"
I am not saying Regfan is playing like he accuses me of doing, I'm saying that Regfan is avoiding using any prior knowledge he has of me to determine my alignment, and at the same time ignores the prior experiences he does have with me.
Hella conflicted; absolutely hate the first paragraph - smacks of "caught for the wrong reasons" - but that last two sentences just reads... pure, for lack of a better word. Like, it feels like the issue Pozzai's been circling around and he just found the words to say it. But like, why is that town? idk. It puts the frustration in kind of a more understandable context? Like. Harping on the videomafia point is just such a silly point to hang your game on, as mafia here, especially when any sane wolf would have had some "crap, this isn't working" hipcheck.
And it's one of the reasons I'm side-eyeing Newcomb. I thought Ophidia was laying it on pretty thick with his "people are right to suspect me, I didn't answer Vaimes' question and that was scummy" that Newcomb handwaved as earnest or whatever.
I'm like 75% sure that it was a different bit of Ophidia's early posting that I found earnest, but you'll be happy to know that my intial townread on him is down to a big fat waffle.
In case you get NK'd N1, I'd like your thoughts on the game state down assuming I was town. Am I completely off base on Iso being scummy in that world where he slapped down scum reads he doesn't explain, and then a vote he doesn't really explain? Who are the top town on my wagon and off it?
In the world where you're town, the odds of you being right on Delphine go up a ton. I think off the top of my head, Delphine + at least one, maybe two of Iso/tom/Nacho/Vaimes. If it's just one, Ophidia maybe can be the third? Like, especially if Pozzai is town, there is just zero % chance that there weren't at least two scum just kinda floating along. That's not Reg, unless he's way better at faking that kind of thing than I am. He's seemed pretty genuinely invested in progressing the game, and I feel like that would be just /hard/ to muster up the energy for if Pozzai/you are both misses.
Like. If you flip town, I don't think I can say "I'd snap off [this person] and walk away from the thread D2", because, like. Most people have treated you the same way - you /are/ hella lifeless, and the whole game thinks so, including me. So... scum either started that train or just went along for the ride.
Gun to my head, I'm putting Delphine under a microscope if you flip town, but I'm not committing to killing her without a re-read.
If x=y flips town, I'd probably start looking more closely at her than at Iso, I think.
oh look at that
____
Want to talk holistically about xequalsy, this is kinda to myself to just make sure I've done my due diligence here.
I think there are a couple compelling reasons to townread him here but I'm pretty sure we still have to kill him.
1) Consensus scumread on D1 with lack of meaningful counterwagon. When you look at the lynchshape here, how the wagon's developed, with the context - D1, no redcheck, no info - does this look like a hit? No, it really doesn't.
2) VT claim. xequalsy was under a fair bit of heat before daychat closed, IIRC. Even if he wasn't, the first claim of the game being VT comes from scum, like... not super often. It's such an automatic +EV move to claim PR here, as mafia. To claim VT as scum in xequalsy's shoes here either shows a lack of care or insight into correct scumplay, or a pretty bold next level WIFOM move that no sane mafia player would give much credence to it actually saving them.
3) Asking specific people if he should claim. Would be a pretty nice touch to fake as mafia here; mafia in his shoes just either claims, or asks the whole game if he should. Asking a group of people like that - people he's townreading - is not a bad indicator that he's thinking about how to play this from a town perspective. Granted this isn't the strongest point; 1 and 2 are the main thrusts here, but it caught my eye and kind of reinforced what I was already thinking.
So, yeah. I think there's at least a coin flip that he's just VT.
That being said, because of the position we're in here, to not lynch him is essentially to clear him for the remainder of the game. And I just... can't quite do that. Because the persona he's got going on right now - which yeah, all the adjectives everyone's been throwing around, stiff, lifeless, robotic, that's all accurate.
The frustrating thing is that his townflip doesn't really tell us a ton; there are some directions to go, some leads to pursue, but the hugely consensus part of this read means, like. Yeah, like literally every town is okay with this lynch? No one is defending him? Meaning every single town player in this game is kind of on the same page here? Gonna make a townflip kinda messy to go back and sort.
I think if I were feeling a bit more bold, like I wanted to make a splash, I'd put my foot down here and try to swing it off him and onto Delphine. But that's projecting an awful lot of confidence that I just... don't really feel. Part of it's not having the time I'm accustomed to to invest in this game, for sure. I can't really confidently look at the future and say I'll have the time in the next few weeks to shove it down anyone's throat.
So, I'm good. Take us to D2 whenever, and xequalsy, if you're town, best I can do is a promise to not let people ignore or gloss over your reads tomorrow. Assuming I'm around and all.
Isos elaboration behind his X=Y scum read inside Post #614 makes plenty of sense and explains the increase in confidence in his push at the time, feeling better about him.
Growing increasingly impatient with Typhons lack of getting to this game & similarly want Nacho to just get around to his current reads / stances, would mean a lot more to me than the constant commenting on really old information method. Don't want this to hit a point where a prolonged stagnant day impacts on the gamestate entirely.
@Newcomb - 1) I don't think Pozzais over focus on the meta / different medians of mafia is a town tell at all nor do I think it reads 'pure'? It should be pretty obvious by now that my stance is that VM doesn't translate to FM so him harping on that rather than the actual real reasons I think he's mafia makes very little sense -- it's one of those things where scum tend to focus on what they think is a 'weak' point in a case against them while ignoring the rest. 2) I think your point #1 re; the consensus and ease the X=Y wagon has formed is a solid one (That said a fairly similar thing happened in TH7 where the leading two wagons D1 were scum (Miner/Math) with little resistance elsewhere and I can see that potentially being the case here), I don't make much from the VT claim personally; attempted to use that as a tell a few years ago (Expecting mafia run up to not claim VT) and got burnt by it far too often, similarly your point #3 does very little for me.
X=Y, could you find time to read up on one of the three people's prior game, post your conclussion and explain why you think that specific individual is the most important to solve for this game?
@Ophidia I for one do not overly care, it's nothing unusual for people with no experience to read me scummy for my playstyle in our first game together, I guess Vaimes would be the interesting party out of the bunch as he at least have played forum with me before.
Because that was an incredibly weak way to say don't lynch me yet! You didn't defend yourself or give a viable alternative. You just gave up and accepted it while giving people time to share their thoughts. If you were town and giving up I don't see you caring if other people get their thoughts in because everyone is scum reading you and all their opinions are warped by that glaring misread of the game. As scum it buys you and your partners more time to tie people to your wagon and obfuscate other reads.
Since you're looking for things to say I'd appreciate a full t/s list with everyone on and sorted by relative strength of reads.
I'm not going to vote for myself or anything, but at this point, given that nearly the entire game is happy with lynching me - I don't think keeping me around for a mislynch when it actually matters a lot more is going to help. Like I've been pushing for either Iso or Delphine most of the latter part of D1, but since nobody seems to want to take me up on them (except tom on Iso). *shrug*
I've shared my thoughts on the game already - please go back and read the reads list!
What if I told you that I agreed with Delphine's stance; i.e. I also believe it's going to be next to impossible to move on from this gamestate until we resolve your alignment?
The point was, I would buy such a stance from say Iso, or you. But at that point, before her actual post giving more detailed thoughts of her read of me - it seems not fully meant to me.
Like. If you flip town, I don't think I can say "I'd snap off [this person] and walk away from the thread D2", because, like. Most people have treated you the same way - you /are/ hella lifeless, and the whole game thinks so, including me. So... scum either started that train or just went along for the ride.
Gun to my head, I'm putting Delphine under a microscope if you flip town, but I'm not committing to killing her without a re-read.
I think a lot of appearing "lifeless" is because I don't think I was in a particularly bad position before this last weekend when I was going to be really committed to putting in the time and setting out arguments etc... But then RL happened and I came back to a gamestate where everyone seemed to be scum reading me? (Looking back at it from context, Ophidia starts to look a lot worse I think). Like I said earlier, at that point even I don't think I should get kept around. I know I've been focused a lot on people's reads on me, but a big part of that is trying to hold people accountable for their votes on me for D2.
But yeah, that's enough for me, I don't want any chain lynches/snap judgements anyway. I'm honestly getting a bit paranoid of Iso being town and tom trying to swing that wagon tomorrow. I know I should have a little confidence in my reads and all, but honestly after getting scumread by the whole thread there must be something wrong I did with my play.
X=Y, could you find time to read up on one of the three people's prior game, post your conclussion and explain why you think that specific individual is the most important to solve for this game?
I could, but given that people really seem to want the day to end I'm not sure people will want to wait a day or so for me to do it during the week. Anything I could get done shorter would probably be unrepresentative. I'd be happy to if people were ok with holding off.
Something about Regfan's #600 and his continued dismissal of all of my reads as "weak" but his continued mention of him following partly along with my read of him bugs me but I can't quite pinpoint what about it exactly bothers me. It's kind of the discrediting of my scum reads whilst others have picked up on similar things (like Vaimes about Delphine, though I admit his case was much stronger than mine)? But also I'm a little baffled why he continues to highlight my read on him continuously - sort of like highlighting that my reads are all weak, so the case on him is also bad? Not too sure.
This feels towny now... It might be me falling for a hail Mary but that felt pretty genuine. Going to sleep now. Will take a full reread on x=y in the morning. Also maybe get the Delphi train rolling.
In the meantime x=y why did you mediate tom and I in 89. Can't be bothered to link from mobile right now...
I just updated Wheat, but I wanted to toss this in the thread as well so you guys have some clue as to what's been going on/aren't overly harsh on whoever it is that comes next for my slot.
The very short story is that my health sort of imploded, and I had to undergo a stopgap surgery to try and remedy some of the issues yesterday. Resultantly, it is exceedingly unlikely that I will be able to give you guys the time the game/you deserve here, so I'm withdrawing. I'm sorry to have dallied this long when you could have had a replacement in my slot days ago, but I had no idea things were going to go ass up quite so quickly, and had been quite looking forward to this, so I was trying to avoid bailing if I could. Hope to one day catch a game with the lot of you again (preferably on MTGS when I don't have some sort of clusterf**k make me replace out -_-), catch up with you when my body isn't trying to end me.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Order not really important for my two scum reads. I kinda feel that either I've not been objective at all and Iso is actually town (and Delphine scum) or I've just been misreading Delphine's playstyle a lot (and Iso is still scum).
Eh, I mean in the world that two scum were happy to hop onto my wagon at 4 votes, I think the third scum would have to be someone I'm townreading heavily...
What's the rush? Some people seem to still have things they want to say.
What's the rush? Some people seem to still have things they want to say.
[/quote]
This post.
This is a scum post.
@Pozzai Anyway I reread Regfan and you and I just don't see it. Yes he's disregarding meta, but he's giving a solid reason to do so. It's definitely lowered my town read confidence a little bit. But like all his interactions with you seem normal to me.
@tomsloger I'm more inclined to believe you wrt to scum Iso tells today than I was yesterday for raisins. Still think we should lynch x=y and be done with it though.
You are almost certainly correct. He's a perfectly fine lynch, and I think everyone wants the flip.
-
@tom: Okay, so which is it? Are you the Iso meta expert or aren't you? With regards to autopilotIso, I was on autopilot for the first part of Murders in Townville. I've been a successful townie so far in this game because I'm about to lynch scum. With regards to Pozzai, he had a fairly distinct personality in video Mafia and once I was reminded of where I knew him from, it all came back to me.
If Day is still open tonight after work, I'll get to #224 and #226 for you.
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@Nacho: I don't remember specifically anything Typhrous has said, but I remember his early posting being more important that his "lolz brb guise" (obviously).
-
@Vaimes: RE: #547: Someone gets it!
-
@X=Y: If you're wrong about both Delphi and myself, who's scum?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
tom would be my first instinct - simply because he's arranged himself in such a way that he's free to push further on you D2 after I flip town. in a town!iso world, his vote on you is a bit like why I'm suspicious of Regfan, especially the bit where he pulled back on his reasoning on Iso/me being unaligned - his Iso vote seems a bit of a vanity vote in that case, whilst he is still happy with my lynch.
I'd also say Regfan, but in the case my reads have been so wrong that neither of you are scum I'd probably start to look at my null and lean town reads a lot more.
Ok? Care to explain your reasoning?
Though I think I'm strongly town-reading Grapefruit now for this post. I moderately disliked his earlier comment about thinking my summary/reads post seems towny BUT early stuff means the vote stays (especially since it was after a couple other people expressed that). I kinda feel like some scum at least would sort of mention that so they don't look like they were totally off base after my flip. I think for someone who hasn't hitched his ride to my wagon throughout D1, coming back and sort of doubling down on it - I just can't see scum doing.
I'll pass thanks. At this point I think my flip will do more to help my case on you than I ever can.
Look back on how Delphine's posts lack any of this sort of bite before I prod her to vote/scum read her.
I've played, oh, two or three games with him. And he was town in all of them (minus a Micro scumgame, but I'm not really counting that since the setup was very different). But for some reason, he chose this game to suddenly highlight how "new" he is.
Bringing up that English is not his native language is, uh. I don't want to cross any lines here, but he never brought it up before, and to be honest I never would have guessed that it wasn't his first language.
So what I'm thinking is more likely is that he rolled scum for the first time, and is trying to build up some wiggle room, some "hey guys if you notice anything ~weird~ about my posts it's because of these convenient reasons that I never mentioned in any of my other towngames." That makes more sense to me than him just...suddenly deciding that he wants to play the newbie card for the first time.
And it's one of the reasons I'm side-eyeing Newcomb. I thought Ophidia was laying it on pretty thick with his "people are right to suspect me, I didn't answer Vaimes' question and that was scummy" that Newcomb handwaved as earnest or whatever.
In fact, the only natural thing I find towny about him is how he sassed me in response to suspecting him (and even that's being pretty generous), but I learned my lesson with holding "weaker" players to a lower standard of playing.
If a world somehow existed in which you and Iso were both town, this is an excellent point.
In case you get NK'd N1, I'd like your thoughts on the game state down assuming I was town. Am I completely off base on Iso being scummy in that world where he slapped down scum reads he doesn't explain, and then a vote he doesn't really explain? Who are the top town on my wagon and off it?
Regfan
Newcomb
DelphiBlue
Ophidia
Pozzai
xequalsy
Leaves six names for three mafia, in an ideal world. Maybe two is more realistic; highly doubt all six of these names are town, unless I'm absolute trash at this game.
My postgame cred read is that Ophidia is scum, and got some sick coaching from Newcomb. Dunno if xequalsy makes sense with them, but we'll see.
(Still reading so I won't vote yet.)
---
x=y, I want to end the Day because we're reaching the point where the thread is going to become overloaded with information that will make rereading a chore, as well as cause people to second-guess themselves too much without hard information to check against. It's one of the main reasons I waffle and mafia becomes a chore for me: information overload. Words words words, 90% of which is spam or NAI.
What do you think of Nacho's Ophidia defense in 541? I thought it was significantly more partnery than anything I've seen from Newcomb.
(I don't know if you've changed your read on him, just assuming you haven't.)
At a glance, it doesn't really ping me as much. Nacho's reasoning feels more honest and objective, whereas Newcomb's felt like he was trying to nudge me into overlooking it.
I take your point, but from the direction of the thread, I get the feeling that almost everyone (I can't even really name anyone off the top of my head who isn't up for my lynch for one reason or another) is ready for the day to end today or maybe tomorrow at the latest (as in 14/02 or the 15/02 depending on time zones).
But it seems hasty when Typhon has just said he's come back now and ready to post something (which seems important given he was actually absent for most of the day after slapping a vote down on me) for example. It doesn't actually seem like the day is in any danger of dragging on too long without a flip.
It doesn't really seem sensible to me for the day to end before we get at least some of that or a post from Newcomb/Regfan/Nacho.
I'm just not interested in regurgitating topics that have come and gone.
And Regfan/Nacho/Newcomb have already provided a *****ton of content. They shouldn't get greedy.
@tom(or Grapefruit/Nacho/Newcomb), is there anything you'd like my perspective on that you'll find useful for D2?
It's a very specific thing where I feel like, as scum, she tries to have super detailed, wordy, and (sometimes) convoluted reads to compensate for her inability to genuinely solve the game, as well as throwing out empty questions.
I mean, I was planning to do that last weekend before something came up RL. But yeah, I don't really feel like doing that now, when my meta reads on you/Iso/Pozzai aren't really going to change anyone else's minds.
I really like Delphis 'walked through thought process' inside #575 and very much agree with her in that X=Y is coming across as robotic which is one of the bigger concerns I have with his reads post, most of them are based on fairly weak reasoning and his scum reads particularly lack conviction behind them; think her point about him having difficulty faking scum reads is a very solid one.
I don't exactly agree with Vaimes; re Ophidias ESL comment being alignment indicative but agree with him on the over emphasis of the 'new' mentions and find Vaimes thought process inside #586 to come across as very genuine and like is interactions with Tom that follows, still feel pretty good about him being town.
X=Y's comment of "Assess the game with me flipping town now" inside #588 comes across very forced; him focusing on posting around that rather than pushing or elaborating more on his scum reads makes very little sense as town and feels more like mafia attempting to force a town-tell.
@Vaimes - Know we've touched on this conversation before but can you give me a quick cliffs note version on your Typhon town read; there's a few posts of his earlier I liked but think his continued avoidance and lack of activity inside the thread (even before/after his V/LA period) is a problem and need to try and work out if this is just me being too hard on him given a conversation I had with him after SVM about this game or not.
So pretty up to date now, would bet a lot on Vaimes/Tom/Newbcomb all being town. Feel pretty good about Grapes/Nacho being town and have weak town reads on Delphi/Iso. Think the scum team is probably some combination of Pozzai/X=Y/Ophi/Typhon in descending likelihood.
Because that was an incredibly weak way to say don't lynch me yet! You didn't defend yourself or give a viable alternative. You just gave up and accepted it while giving people time to share their thoughts. If you were town and giving up I don't see you caring if other people get their thoughts in because everyone is scum reading you and all their opinions are warped by that glaring misread of the game. As scum it buys you and your partners more time to tie people to your wagon and obfuscate other reads.
Since you're looking for things to say I'd appreciate a full t/s list with everyone on and sorted by relative strength of reads.
He just did that, in #539.
vote: xequalsy
I don't remember who we were waiting for but I'm over it. Happy Valentine's Day.
A CHOIR of CHILDREN sings the SONG of their TRIBE. It goes something like:
VOTECOUNT
Iso - 1 (xequalsy)
Pozzai - 2 (Vaimes, Regfan)
Regfan - 2 (Nachomamma8, Pozzai)
Vaimes - 1 (Ophidia)
xequalsy - 6 (Typhrous, Iso, DelphiBlue, Newcomb, Grapefruit21, tomsloger) (L-1)
Not Voting - 0 ()
The SMALLEST CHILD then bursts into a SOLO, "So you are listening to children then. Perhaps you'll listen if I speak throu-"
You close the MOUTH of the SMALLEST CHILD, gently.
Ohhhhh... That's why I need to reread more than the last page before posting.
@Vaimes are you no longer willing to vote x=y? 565 says you are but you haven't moved yet. Is there someone specific that you are waiting on?
It probably has something to do with Tammy, should watch what you say about her and maybe the CEO problem will go away!
Does my Delphi read in 428 do anything to further convince of Delphi's vague scumminess?
Her recent posts with images attached hasn't done much to convince me she's town.
<that *****>, she gives my boss crabs and is now the reason my CEO is hanging around like a bad smell!
With regards to #224:
Part of my read on X=Y here stemmed from the way he approached my opening post. Literally everyone else ignored it, and his response was basically, "Plan on providing any content, CC? /loran" I made the post to see if anybody called me out on not saying anything, and from my general experience, I find that the people that tend to do that are more often scum looking like they have something to say than not.
With regards to #226:
X=Y specifically asked about two people that were not him that I listed as scum, which felt like he wanted me to elaborate on the other two reads, as well, but like he was too afraid of looking self-conscious to actually ask about my read on him. He manages to discredit said reads in the same breath. He also brings up Ophidia out of the blue and hard-defends him, there, for things that are more likely to come from scum than town but pretending that isn't the case. Additionally, he refers to Typhrous's actions as "interesting", and his vote on me was absolute garbage - of all the people he can think to vote at that point, he chooses to vote me to explain my reads, rather than asking me and voting for scum? Did he think he was going to be pressuring me? How does that make sense for a vote, contextually? One thing I notice scum often do is vote for things that they shouldn't be voting for. It's actually one of Void's biggest scumtells - he'll ask a question or say something that looks like he's scumhunting but then he'll vote off of it and it will completely have the wrong tone for the situation. That's exactly what X=Y's vote felt like, here. (And if we wanna get really anal about it, it's also a vote that lacks fire, as he votes me, tells me to explain my reads...and then tacks on a "please".)
Hopefully that answers your questions.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
This is just. Not a w/w conversation. I'd probably lock clear the other if one of Iso/Grapefruit flipped wolf here.
I'd say something similar about this - the prickly, pointed aggression just feels too natural - but because of the specific people involved I'd probably stop well short of lock clearing in the case that one flipped wolf.
I think this snapback from tom's pretty genuine and towny. It also kind of matches some internal musing I'd been doing, so.
I agree, but that makes me think of Nacho more than anyone else. Like, I haven't read ahead yet, but as of the post I'm quoting, Nacho's in full-on commentary mode. He's asking things, and he's thrown out a ton of "I see where you're coming from but I disagree" type stuff - like, taking issue with specific tidbits, specific reads, but then not really going anywhere with it.
What if I told you that I agreed with Delphine's stance; i.e. I also believe it's going to be next to impossible to move on from this gamestate until we resolve your alignment?
If you do flip town I've had similar thoughts about wolf complacency D1, so. I think I've talked about this before even picking out Delphine, but this is a good reminder.
I feel like there's something really incongruous with Delphine's tone here but it's not something that's coming immediately to mind so this is essentially a bookmark.
So Iso/xequalsy are hard not knowingly aligned IYO?
Hella conflicted; absolutely hate the first paragraph - smacks of "caught for the wrong reasons" - but that last two sentences just reads... pure, for lack of a better word. Like, it feels like the issue Pozzai's been circling around and he just found the words to say it. But like, why is that town? idk. It puts the frustration in kind of a more understandable context? Like. Harping on the videomafia point is just such a silly point to hang your game on, as mafia here, especially when any sane wolf would have had some "crap, this isn't working" hipcheck.
Bookmarked.
I'm like 75% sure that it was a different bit of Ophidia's early posting that I found earnest, but you'll be happy to know that my intial townread on him is down to a big fat waffle.
In the world where you're town, the odds of you being right on Delphine go up a ton. I think off the top of my head, Delphine + at least one, maybe two of Iso/tom/Nacho/Vaimes. If it's just one, Ophidia maybe can be the third? Like, especially if Pozzai is town, there is just zero % chance that there weren't at least two scum just kinda floating along. That's not Reg, unless he's way better at faking that kind of thing than I am. He's seemed pretty genuinely invested in progressing the game, and I feel like that would be just /hard/ to muster up the energy for if Pozzai/you are both misses.
Like. If you flip town, I don't think I can say "I'd snap off [this person] and walk away from the thread D2", because, like. Most people have treated you the same way - you /are/ hella lifeless, and the whole game thinks so, including me. So... scum either started that train or just went along for the ride.
Gun to my head, I'm putting Delphine under a microscope if you flip town, but I'm not committing to killing her without a re-read.
oh look at that
____
Want to talk holistically about xequalsy, this is kinda to myself to just make sure I've done my due diligence here.
I think there are a couple compelling reasons to townread him here but I'm pretty sure we still have to kill him.
1) Consensus scumread on D1 with lack of meaningful counterwagon. When you look at the lynchshape here, how the wagon's developed, with the context - D1, no redcheck, no info - does this look like a hit? No, it really doesn't.
2) VT claim. xequalsy was under a fair bit of heat before daychat closed, IIRC. Even if he wasn't, the first claim of the game being VT comes from scum, like... not super often. It's such an automatic +EV move to claim PR here, as mafia. To claim VT as scum in xequalsy's shoes here either shows a lack of care or insight into correct scumplay, or a pretty bold next level WIFOM move that no sane mafia player would give much credence to it actually saving them.
3) Asking specific people if he should claim. Would be a pretty nice touch to fake as mafia here; mafia in his shoes just either claims, or asks the whole game if he should. Asking a group of people like that - people he's townreading - is not a bad indicator that he's thinking about how to play this from a town perspective. Granted this isn't the strongest point; 1 and 2 are the main thrusts here, but it caught my eye and kind of reinforced what I was already thinking.
So, yeah. I think there's at least a coin flip that he's just VT.
That being said, because of the position we're in here, to not lynch him is essentially to clear him for the remainder of the game. And I just... can't quite do that. Because the persona he's got going on right now - which yeah, all the adjectives everyone's been throwing around, stiff, lifeless, robotic, that's all accurate.
The frustrating thing is that his townflip doesn't really tell us a ton; there are some directions to go, some leads to pursue, but the hugely consensus part of this read means, like. Yeah, like literally every town is okay with this lynch? No one is defending him? Meaning every single town player in this game is kind of on the same page here? Gonna make a townflip kinda messy to go back and sort.
I think if I were feeling a bit more bold, like I wanted to make a splash, I'd put my foot down here and try to swing it off him and onto Delphine. But that's projecting an awful lot of confidence that I just... don't really feel. Part of it's not having the time I'm accustomed to to invest in this game, for sure. I can't really confidently look at the future and say I'll have the time in the next few weeks to shove it down anyone's throat.
So, I'm good. Take us to D2 whenever, and xequalsy, if you're town, best I can do is a promise to not let people ignore or gloss over your reads tomorrow. Assuming I'm around and all.
Growing increasingly impatient with Typhons lack of getting to this game & similarly want Nacho to just get around to his current reads / stances, would mean a lot more to me than the constant commenting on really old information method. Don't want this to hit a point where a prolonged stagnant day impacts on the gamestate entirely.
@Newcomb - 1) I don't think Pozzais over focus on the meta / different medians of mafia is a town tell at all nor do I think it reads 'pure'? It should be pretty obvious by now that my stance is that VM doesn't translate to FM so him harping on that rather than the actual real reasons I think he's mafia makes very little sense -- it's one of those things where scum tend to focus on what they think is a 'weak' point in a case against them while ignoring the rest. 2) I think your point #1 re; the consensus and ease the X=Y wagon has formed is a solid one (That said a fairly similar thing happened in TH7 where the leading two wagons D1 were scum (Miner/Math) with little resistance elsewhere and I can see that potentially being the case here), I don't make much from the VT claim personally; attempted to use that as a tell a few years ago (Expecting mafia run up to not claim VT) and got burnt by it far too often, similarly your point #3 does very little for me.
@Ophidia I for one do not overly care, it's nothing unusual for people with no experience to read me scummy for my playstyle in our first game together, I guess Vaimes would be the interesting party out of the bunch as he at least have played forum with me before.
Another part of me doesn't because this D1 has dragged on long enough and a 50% shot at a scum lynch is actually pretty great.
@Newcomb If x=y flips town you find me more scummy correct?
I'm not going to vote for myself or anything, but at this point, given that nearly the entire game is happy with lynching me - I don't think keeping me around for a mislynch when it actually matters a lot more is going to help. Like I've been pushing for either Iso or Delphine most of the latter part of D1, but since nobody seems to want to take me up on them (except tom on Iso). *shrug*
I've shared my thoughts on the game already - please go back and read the reads list!
The point was, I would buy such a stance from say Iso, or you. But at that point, before her actual post giving more detailed thoughts of her read of me - it seems not fully meant to me.
I think a lot of appearing "lifeless" is because I don't think I was in a particularly bad position before this last weekend when I was going to be really committed to putting in the time and setting out arguments etc... But then RL happened and I came back to a gamestate where everyone seemed to be scum reading me? (Looking back at it from context, Ophidia starts to look a lot worse I think). Like I said earlier, at that point even I don't think I should get kept around. I know I've been focused a lot on people's reads on me, but a big part of that is trying to hold people accountable for their votes on me for D2.
But yeah, that's enough for me, I don't want any chain lynches/snap judgements anyway. I'm honestly getting a bit paranoid of Iso being town and tom trying to swing that wagon tomorrow. I know I should have a little confidence in my reads and all, but honestly after getting scumread by the whole thread there must be something wrong I did with my play.
I could, but given that people really seem to want the day to end I'm not sure people will want to wait a day or so for me to do it during the week. Anything I could get done shorter would probably be unrepresentative. I'd be happy to if people were ok with holding off.
Something about Regfan's #600 and his continued dismissal of all of my reads as "weak" but his continued mention of him following partly along with my read of him bugs me but I can't quite pinpoint what about it exactly bothers me. It's kind of the discrediting of my scum reads whilst others have picked up on similar things (like Vaimes about Delphine, though I admit his case was much stronger than mine)? But also I'm a little baffled why he continues to highlight my read on him continuously - sort of like highlighting that my reads are all weak, so the case on him is also bad? Not too sure.
This feels towny now... It might be me falling for a hail Mary but that felt pretty genuine. Going to sleep now. Will take a full reread on x=y in the morning. Also maybe get the Delphi train rolling.
In the meantime x=y why did you mediate tom and I in 89. Can't be bothered to link from mobile right now...
lol if Proph is mentoring scum again.
Probably. The more Iso sounds like he's throwing a fit at not getting his way, the less I think he's pushing on a teammate.
All the best.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Hope you recover soon, cool kid.
I don't want to lynch Delphine.