If I had to pick my 3 right now, I'd do Rhand/Silver and <somebody else>. I'm leaning Vaimes, but I'm trying to see what Rhand/Silver are seeing in Cantrip. Plus shadow is on a lot of lists, so I want to look closer at him (and the people who are pushing for him).
Which I don't know if that helps you at all shadow, I think I've been fairly transparent thus far. I haven't crossed anyone off a list, it's too early. I don't know if it serves a purpose to take those choices that seriously. Like I said before, we're waiting on 3 other people, so who knows, there might be more contenders, or Silver might completely break down and claim scum by then. I've seen it happen. #thefableoffable
If I had to pick my 3 right now, I'd do Rhand/Silver and <somebody else>. I'm leaning Vaimes, but I'm trying to see what Rhand/Silver are seeing in Cantrip. Plus shadow is on a lot of lists, so I want to look closer at him (and the people who are pushing for him).
Which I don't know if that helps you at all shadow, I think I've been fairly transparent thus far. I haven't crossed anyone off a list, it's too early. I don't know if it serves a purpose to take those choices that seriously. Like I said before, we're waiting on 3 other people, so who knows, there might be more contenders, or Silver might completely break down and claim scum by then. I've seen it happen. #thefableoffable
By picking Vaimes are you taking a stance against DV?
This is my first non-IRL and non-traditional Mafia game...
------
My current reads:
Leaning More Scum:
D_V
Rhand
Silvercrys3467
Leaning Somewhat Scum/Neutral:
dkingsland967
AthiestGod
Bur
Mindreaver - Probably Mordred
Leaning Somewhat Town:
Vaimes
Cantripmancer
Leaning More Town:
Osieorb18
shadowlancerx
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
I combined my neutral list and somewhat scum list because while lack of presence is likely innocent, it does inherently help scum some, if they are scum, since noone on town can read them. I think that's more significant than helping town, since town relies more throughout the game on information; scum plays the long game.
I don't really agree with Rhand re: Cantrip. I'm trying to figure out why he's rethinking his D_V read because of me when we both think it makes him town and I'm not coming up with anything. I would tentatively put Vaimes in that slot.
That said, I don't really feel like Cantrip is being malicious. So if he goes it's not really the end of the world.
I was going to not post reads lists because they'll probably make me, Merlin, easier to identify from my copycats.
But I believe this will be instructional.
Hrm. Probably at least one scum in my townreads there, statistically speaking. That may or may not be intentional.
(or else every lurker is scum, which. Probably isn't true.)
If I had to point to one thing on you, it's the case you posted on me. I could lie and say "it's totally not omgus" but, well. It is, at least a little.
The main thing that bothers me about is there's no substance. You just kind of said that I said some suspicious things and then quoted me a bunch without saying why you thought those quotes were suspicious. Actually, I half expected Vaimes to call you out on that since you were replying to him, but he posted a few times after that and didn't really follow up.
JoeTerry's strategy posts don't really check out and I feel like he's subtly pushing +scum plays. Although, I guess this could be a bit of confirmation bias since I think my strategies are inherently superior.
@JoeTerry:
Have you played Mafia before, here or elsewhere?
By picking Vaimes are you taking a stance against DV?
That's not my reason for choosing Vaimes.
But there is a reason I don't have D_V listed in those 5. I don't like the D_V percy-claim, I'll respect Silver's appeal to not talk it to death, but I don't see to be a good reason for town to claim that role. Maybe later on in the game Silver will explain his thought process, we're all have a laugh, drink some lemonade, and talk about old times when we thought D_V was a traitor.
\If I had to point to one thing on you, it's the case you posted on me. I could lie and say "it's totally not omgus" but, well. It is, at least a little.
The main thing that bothers me about is there's no substance. You just kind of said that I said some suspicious things and then quoted me a bunch without saying why you thought those quotes were suspicious. Actually, I half expected Vaimes to call you out on that since you were replying to him, but he posted a few times after that and didn't really follow up.
I can see that. I mean, at the time I was less sure on a read for you, I think.
I mostly just disagreed on Rhand and D_V, and then also was not happy with the "I'm not doing this because it nullifies the tells" which seems like more of a scum move. Though if there's no strategic aspect to it... I'm unsure.
I definitely still mistrust Rhand and to some degree D_V. Your strat posts do actually check out though, on second look, even if you play a riskier strat than I might otherwise go with.
I'm not sure what I think on JoeTerry's strat posts... Hmm. I was pretty certain, and based on his votes, I'd probably still guess town.
I'd probably pick Silver/Vaimes/Shadow as I'm relatively certain there's no particular reason for anyone on town to not hop on the "I'm Merlin" train.
If I had to point to one thing on you, it's the case you posted on me. I could lie and say "it's totally not omgus" but, well. It is, at least a little.
The main thing that bothers me about is there's no substance. You just kind of said that I said some suspicious things and then quoted me a bunch without saying why you thought those quotes were suspicious. Actually, I half expected Vaimes to call you out on that since you were replying to him, but he posted a few times after that and didn't really follow up.
JoeTerry's strategy posts don't really check out and I feel like he's subtly pushing +scum plays. Although, I guess this could be a bit of confirmation bias since I think my strategies are inherently superior.
@JoeTerry:
Have you played Mafia before, here or elsewhere?
I've played Internet mafia before on the old wizards of the coast forum, but that was years ago. I've never played Avalon mafia. I'm interested to hear why your stratagies are superior to my strategy because it seems like I've only really proposed two things, only one of which I strongly believe in (dv should never quest). The other strategy I recall mentioning is that I think it'd be worth veto-ing the Mindreaver team just so we could put him on Quest #1 being that he is my top town read.
Please educate me why that wouldn't be a good idea.
I caught up, saw that you had claimed Percival, went back to check, and decided that it made you very likely to be scum. Unless you want to refute my points that scum can openly rolefish and still win, despite town passing three quests?
This point?
Cause like NO *****?
But theres literally only one person that can counter claim me and that person will be auto scum. So like...
Its a 1 for 1 with the scum.
@Iso: Do we get to see the vote count for missions, rather than just whether it passed or not?
My recommended team right now would be Me/Rhand/Silver. I'm not certain on who I'd send out myself.
I played 5 player Avalon/Resistance. We stopped using Merlin since we had 1 game out of about 9 where scum didn't find Merlin (and both town knew who Merlin was in that game).
I'd guess that at least one of Silver and Cantrip is scum, based on Rhand's post, and at the moment I'd lean Silver. Also, this is an iso game, hence why I'm not more certain on Mindreaver.
That’s OMGUS to the extreme. I say that you’re scum so now I’m scum?
Your conclusion is awful. You’re basically saying that scum!me wants to quest with 3 scum on the first quest (me, D_V, one of Cantrip / Silver). Do you really think I want to fail the first quest with 3 fail votes as scum? That would be pretty awful for the scumteam, wouldn’t it?
And then the bad modgaming… I don’t trust you at all.
I'd guess that at least one of Silver and Cantrip is scum, based on Rhand's post, and at the moment I'd lean Silver. Also, this is an iso game, hence why I'm not more certain on Mindreaver.
Interesting. I'm always paranoid of silver, because I've never seen his scum game, and I suspect he'd be hard to figure out. I'll have to go take another look, because I have his as practically towncleared for <reasons I'll reveal in due time>.
Interesting? Really? Look above.
Do you think I’m scum?
@TheRealStinky: why is Mindreaver your top town read?
On D_V: you say that a Percy claim is anti-town. I agree, he should’ve stayed hidden. But do you really think that makes D_V scum? Do you believe scum would risk a 1 vs 1 with a counterclaim there?
In fact, this game it isn't at all awful for the scumteam to "out" themselves, or be openly scummy. As long as some of them can get information via fakeclaims and rolefishing, they can still win with the Assassinatino even if we pass three quests. Scum have less of an incentive to stay hidden here.
I like Vaimes for this post. It’s naïve, but not something scum could write as it might out his buddies if they’re just as naïve.
Can you elborate on what this being an Iso game has to do with my alignment? Just curious. I know Iso is famously difficult to break via massclaims, role names, role PMs, etc. I just don't know how it applies here.
Just that I would not rely on iso putting a town member as the first chooser. Though I'd have to look more into strategies and math to figure out exactly what's the best plan on that. I'll see if I can do that before the weekend, or on my train this weekend.
I wasn't the first chooser though Although Shockwave/Vaimes doesn't seem scummy either.
Eww. Why are you defending yourself vs bad modgaming?
If I had to pick my 3 right now, I'd do Rhand/Silver and <somebody else>. I'm leaning Vaimes, but I'm trying to see what Rhand/Silver are seeing in Cantrip. Plus shadow is on a lot of lists, so I want to look closer at him (and the people who are pushing for him).
Which I don't know if that helps you at all shadow, I think I've been fairly transparent thus far. I haven't crossed anyone off a list, it's too early. I don't know if it serves a purpose to take those choices that seriously. Like I said before, we're waiting on 3 other people, so who knows, there might be more contenders, or Silver might completely break down and claim scum by then. I've seen it happen. #thefableoffable
Cantrip wanted to figure out my alignment off the bat. I’m pretty sure he’s town. I don’t think Cantrip would’ve chosen me there if he was scum.
People I’m ok with going on quests:
Me / Cantrip / D_V / Vaimes / Silver
People I won’t pass:
TheRealStinky / osieorb
People I would consider passing:
Mindreaver / shadow
Do you really think I want to fail the first quest with 3 fail votes as scum? That would be pretty awful for the scumteam, wouldn’t it?
Interesting. Do you think we get to see the group votecounts? I didn't read it that way. I just figured Iso would say "this quest failed/passed". Not necessarily "2 pass votes, 1 fail vote". But that will be crazy useful if true. @Iso - Clarification here?
I'd guess that at least one of Silver and Cantrip is scum, based on Rhand's post, and at the moment I'd lean Silver. Also, this is an iso game, hence why I'm not more certain on Mindreaver.
Interesting. I'm always paranoid of silver, because I've never seen his scum game, and I suspect he'd be hard to figure out. I'll have to go take another look, because I have his as practically towncleared for <reasons I'll reveal in due time>.
Interesting? Really? Look above.
Do you think I’m scum?
I thought it was "interesting" that he thought Silver was scum, I wasn't commenting on your alignment at all. And no, I don't think you're scum.
Can you elborate on what this being an Iso game has to do with my alignment? Just curious. I know Iso is famously difficult to break via massclaims, role names, role PMs, etc. I just don't know how it applies here.
Just that I would not rely on iso putting a town member as the first chooser. Though I'd have to look more into strategies and math to figure out exactly what's the best plan on that. I'll see if I can do that before the weekend, or on my train this weekend.
I wasn't the first chooser though Although Shockwave/Vaimes doesn't seem scummy either.
Eww. Why are you defending yourself vs bad modgaming?
Well, I'm probably going to get accused of defending myself against over-defending myself now. But I was being really tongue in cheek here. I thought that argument was hilariously bad, and decided to highlight one of the funnier things about it. i.e. Even if it made sense that Iso would 1) make a "random list" not-random on purpose and 2) That we could successfully modgame him in such a way (when he's notoriously hard to modgame); I wasn't even the first one. So I didn't feel pressure to respond, and I wasn't trying to defend hard, I just was really tickled.
I don't know what Rhand's deal is, but I've been playing a straight town game... Maybe some more emotional decisions than rational, but sitting back seems like the wrong move for town in this game. I will vote against any quest with Rhand or D_V on it.
@JoeTerry: I was just being tongue in cheek with the "inherently superior strategies" thing, but a tongue out smiley didn't seem appropriate at the end of that. I was really just saying I don't like your strategies. If you're coming back to Mafia after a few years off and haven't played Avalon before you might not be scum, though. Hmm.
As far as passing just to put Mindreaver on a team, it gives people a reason to not vote well on whatever team he proposes and gives us less info.
@Rhand: I've played a bunch of games (well, like 3) with town!Mindreaver and I'm pretty sure this is him. It's partly a read based on stuff like proposing to send Shockwave so he sends a pass no matter what - that doesn't strike me as something that would occur to scum. And the other part is tone, I guess. He just sounds like town.
@Rhand: No reasons because town has more to hide than scum. There is a similar lose scenario to Kirby's dreamland Mafia, which makes me want to ensure that enough people are plausible decoys for me as possible
I don't know what Rhand's deal is, but I've been playing a straight town game... Maybe some more emotional decisions than rational, but sitting back seems like the wrong move for town in this game. I will vote against any quest with Rhand or D_V on it.
If you don't respond to my question and don't follow up on yours, then how are you planning on figuring out "what my deal is"?
Also, what happened with that weird "Mindreaver - probably Mordred" thing inbetween your 2 T/S lists?
I'm ok with Mindreaver now.
@Shadow: I read that last post 3 times and still don't understand what you're saying.
That’s OMGUS to the extreme. I say that you’re scum so now I’m scum?
Your conclusion is awful. You’re basically saying that scum!me wants to quest with 3 scum on the first quest (me, D_V, one of Cantrip / Silver). Do you really think I want to fail the first quest with 3 fail votes as scum? That would be pretty awful for the scumteam, wouldn’t it?
And then the bad modgaming… I don’t trust you at all.
I had a scum read on you towards the beginning (which may have been wrong, but I'm sticking with it until I have reason to believe otherwise).
You have a point though on the failing the first quest aspect.
I had a scum read on you towards the beginning (which may have been wrong, but I'm sticking with it until I have reason to believe otherwise).
You have a point though on the failing the first quest aspect.
Things you accused me of:
* claiming scum (which you simply misread)
* nothing else
Where did that scum read even come from?
You keep repeating it but never add any evidence. And then you go and make conclusions about other people based on my posts. In a bad way.
Things you accused me of:
* claiming scum (which you simply misread)
* nothing else
Where did that scum read even come from?
You keep repeating it but never add any evidence. And then you go and make conclusions about other people based on my posts. In a bad way.
You didn't merlin-claim early game, you did little to nothing to clear yourself or others, you suggested an actively bad play of intentionally voting no to get Mindreaver nominated... I've seen no sign that you're town beyond other people's reads, for which I have yet to see a reason.
Also, what happened with that weird "Mindreaver - probably Mordred" thing inbetween your 2 T/S lists?
I removed the note since it wasn't as sure.
Anyways, there's no reason for Merlin to go on quests, so I'm fine.
I'm sorry did you just say you edited your post? Is that allowed here? That's grounds for mod kill where I played before.
It is grounds for a modkill, however, that isn't what happened. He posted a t/s list with a note on it, and then the next time he posted it he removed the note.
Lol so I'm scum because I didn't claim Merlin? That's rich.
I am actively looking into mindsets and started doing so as soon as the first content-posts appeared.
I suggested one thing which turned out not a good idea yes. So did Stinky. Why is he not on your scumlist?
RJST was not on my scumlist, but at this point, he's not someone who I consider to definitively be town. But I think some of his plays are more likely to come from inexperience, as well (as do some of mine)...
Anyways, I'm going to be afk until this evening. The only person I'm still convinced is definitely town is shadow.
@rhandwall#168: Mindreaver is my top town read because of how he is handling of selecting the quest team and his true disappointment when he found out he can't self-nominate. RE: DV claiming percival is just one of the many things he did to claim scum. I'll due a PBP of his scum posts in a few.
@JoeTerry: I was just being tongue in cheek with the "inherently superior strategies" thing, but a tongue out smiley didn't seem appropriate at the end of that. I was really just saying I don't like your strategies. If you're coming back to Mafia after a few years off and haven't played Avalon before you might not be scum, though. Hmm.
As far as passing just to put Mindreaver on a team, it gives people a reason to not vote well on whatever team he proposes and gives us less info.
@Rhand: I've played a bunch of games (well, like 3) with town!Mindreaver and I'm pretty sure this is him. It's partly a read based on stuff like proposing to send Shockwave so he sends a pass no matter what - that doesn't strike me as something that would occur to scum. And the other part is tone, I guess. He just sounds like town.
Ok, I see where you're coming from, but I figured we should be expecting players to post there opinions, even make it mandatory.
If everyone could post their Quest 1 suggestions (not including Mindreaver) that'd be great. If you don't I'm not approving a quest with you on it.
Quest 1:
1. Me (duh)
2. Shadow (First Person to claim Merlin)
3. Vaimes (seems to be aggressively hunting, forcing people to take stances, and is Anti-DV)
If everyone could post their Quest 1 suggestions (not including Mindreaver) that'd be great. If you don't I'm not approving a quest with you on it.
Quest 1:
1. Me (duh)
2. Shadow (First Person to claim Merlin)
3. Vaimes (seems to be aggressively hunting, forcing people to take stances, and is Anti-DV)
@Cantrip:
I think D_V is town for his Percy claim.
If you agree, why am I making you double think it?
I just didn't want people going down certain paths there and posting them in thread because of reasons.
Because you agree. You sound very experienced, but hedge that experience with "but I can't go into details because I'll ruin tells". You may be right, but at this point, I don't know whether to trust you or not. Plus, you indicated you would still be townreading DV if he had rescinded the Percy claim, and without the Percy claim, DV just comes off as sounding like an angry old man to me. Almost grumpy that he has to play this inconvenient game. The *only* reason I was townreading him was for the Percy claim, and if you're agreeing with that, I want to take a step back. On top of that, see my response to DV below.
Also I wish you hadn't specifically said that because I don't think everyone understood what I had said.
Do you think we could have gotten reads based on whether someone correctly understood that?
Possibly.
Not sure.
It was interesting reading some players submit that they had strong "comprehension of the game" yet didn't pick up on what I said.
Terry being the main person for that.
Oooookay, but if your argument is "wahhhh, why'd you highlight that? We could have found out who was paying attention and who wasn't!!1!", then you don't get angry at the first person who shows that they were paying attention. Shadow pointed it out, so he was obviously reading the thread, but could have misunderstood you, as there's some ambiguity in what you meant by "claim". Silver was specifically looking for it, should have been invested enough to note any ambiguity and question it, but was quite eager to townclear you anyway. I saw it, read the context of what you said, and clarified what I thought you meant, because clear communication is town's greatest asset. But instead of handing me a prize for passing the test, you slap me upside the head?
And then Terry comes along 20 minutes after I've clarified and Silver's questioned me about it further, and still thinks that you've rescinded your Percy claim and continues to scum-push you.
I've never played Avalon, and I intentionally didn't do any research ahead of time because I wanted to enjoy the process of discovery. I'm a little bit of a purist sometimes.
@Cantrip: I think you're referring to me answering a question from shadow, how I felt about DV taking back his claim. I answered a direct question at a point where there was still confession on what he actually retracted. I've been pushing a case on DV for a lot more than claim stuff and if you go through my posts you'll see, but since there are still people that think he is town I'll clarify in a few minutes.
I do not like DV. Regardless of his alignment, I am leaning towards vetoing any quest that he picks or has him on it because of his claim.
Claiming Merlin is fine, but any and all claims after the fact only help the scumteam. Real claims means they will have an easier time hunting for Merlin, and fake claims could cause the real power roles to unintentionally slip up.
This is 100% opportunistic.
Vaimes is scum.
Vaimes had already commented multiple times yesterday when I made the claims that I did.
Only after osieorb18 scum read me for no reason and then the TheRealStinkyJoeTerry scum read me for a terrible reason did he decide to throw shade my way all of a sudden. He was actively looking for others opinions to echo. This also indicates that the other two are town members.
@TheRealStinkyJoeTerry As far as I am concerned there is no way to really tell a scum member out on the first mission. I look at it sort of like day one lynches a crap shoot. I'm more used to playing this in real life where as well and typically it is just best to throw a random squad together and go. That being said I'm actually going to rescind that claim for my now solid Vaimes read.
But for real guys what the hell is the proposal and how does it work I'm not getting that part and I've read the rules.
Then he OMGUS Vaimes and then goes on about not being able to tell scum after the first quest. I was so fired up on the OBV Scum tells that I didn't even catch the rescinded claim, which as you can see above is ambiguous, but as I stated when ask about it by shadow, if it was taking back the Percy claim it's even more scummy and when he tries to act like it was a trap and all part of his plan to catch scum, it just seems like backpedalling.
Pretty much go down the scum tell list and DV has checked off each box along the way.
I guess there are two explanations, actually, that depend entirely on role PM format.
Since I, Merlin, know how my PM is formatted, I suspect D_V simply misread the OP as he claimed. My PM makes it quite clear there are five scum and one of them is hidden from me.
Possibly.
Not sure.
It was interesting reading some players submit that they had strong "comprehension of the game" yet didn't pick up on what I said.
Terry being the main person for that.
Which I don't know if that helps you at all shadow, I think I've been fairly transparent thus far. I haven't crossed anyone off a list, it's too early. I don't know if it serves a purpose to take those choices that seriously. Like I said before, we're waiting on 3 other people, so who knows, there might be more contenders, or Silver might completely break down and claim scum by then. I've seen it happen. #thefableoffable
By picking Vaimes are you taking a stance against DV?
------
My current reads:
Leaning More Scum:
Leaning Somewhat Scum/Neutral:
Leaning Somewhat Town:
Leaning More Town:
I combined my neutral list and somewhat scum list because while lack of presence is likely innocent, it does inherently help scum some, if they are scum, since noone on town can read them. I think that's more significant than helping town, since town relies more throughout the game on information; scum plays the long game.
That said, I don't really feel like Cantrip is being malicious. So if he goes it's not really the end of the world.
But I believe this will be instructional.
Silvercrys3467
D_V
Mindreaver
Rhand
Vaimes
shadowlancerx
Cantripmancer
dkingsland967
Bur
AtheistGod
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
osieorb18
Hrm. Probably at least one scum in my townreads there, statistically speaking. That may or may not be intentional.
(or else every lurker is scum, which. Probably isn't true.)
What's your reasoning on scum for me and RSJTerry?
If I had to point to one thing on you, it's the case you posted on me. I could lie and say "it's totally not omgus" but, well. It is, at least a little.
The main thing that bothers me about is there's no substance. You just kind of said that I said some suspicious things and then quoted me a bunch without saying why you thought those quotes were suspicious. Actually, I half expected Vaimes to call you out on that since you were replying to him, but he posted a few times after that and didn't really follow up.
JoeTerry's strategy posts don't really check out and I feel like he's subtly pushing +scum plays. Although, I guess this could be a bit of confirmation bias since I think my strategies are inherently superior.
@JoeTerry:
Have you played Mafia before, here or elsewhere?
But there is a reason I don't have D_V listed in those 5. I don't like the D_V percy-claim, I'll respect Silver's appeal to not talk it to death, but I don't see to be a good reason for town to claim that role. Maybe later on in the game Silver will explain his thought process, we're all have a laugh, drink some lemonade, and talk about old times when we thought D_V was a traitor.
I can see that. I mean, at the time I was less sure on a read for you, I think.
I mostly just disagreed on Rhand and D_V, and then also was not happy with the "I'm not doing this because it nullifies the tells" which seems like more of a scum move. Though if there's no strategic aspect to it... I'm unsure.
I definitely still mistrust Rhand and to some degree D_V. Your strat posts do actually check out though, on second look, even if you play a riskier strat than I might otherwise go with.
I'm not sure what I think on JoeTerry's strat posts... Hmm. I was pretty certain, and based on his votes, I'd probably still guess town.
I'd probably pick Silver/Vaimes/Shadow as I'm relatively certain there's no particular reason for anyone on town to not hop on the "I'm Merlin" train.
Becoming a trend now...
My current reads:
Leaning More Scum:
D_V
Rhand
Leaning Somewhat Scum/Neutral:
dkingsland967
AthiestGod
Bur
Mindreaver
Cantripmancer
Leaning Somewhat Town:
Vaimes
Silvercrys3467
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Leaning More Town:
Osieorb18
shadowlancerx
Please educate me why that wouldn't be a good idea.
This point?
Cause like NO *****?
But theres literally only one person that can counter claim me and that person will be auto scum. So like...
Its a 1 for 1 with the scum.
How is that bad?
My recommended team right now would be Me/Rhand/Silver. I'm not certain on who I'd send out myself.
I played 5 player Avalon/Resistance. We stopped using Merlin since we had 1 game out of about 9 where scum didn't find Merlin (and both town knew who Merlin was in that game).
That’s OMGUS to the extreme. I say that you’re scum so now I’m scum?
Your conclusion is awful. You’re basically saying that scum!me wants to quest with 3 scum on the first quest (me, D_V, one of Cantrip / Silver). Do you really think I want to fail the first quest with 3 fail votes as scum? That would be pretty awful for the scumteam, wouldn’t it?
And then the bad modgaming… I don’t trust you at all.
Interesting? Really? Look above.
Do you think I’m scum?
@TheRealStinky: why is Mindreaver your top town read?
On D_V: you say that a Percy claim is anti-town. I agree, he should’ve stayed hidden. But do you really think that makes D_V scum? Do you believe scum would risk a 1 vs 1 with a counterclaim there?
I like Vaimes for this post. It’s naïve, but not something scum could write as it might out his buddies if they’re just as naïve.
I trust him because scum doesn’t do 1 for 1.
Eww. Why are you defending yourself vs bad modgaming?
@D_V: is your Vaimes read rational or emotional?
Why no reasons? What does this bring you?
@Silver: why is Mindreaver town?
To answer your experience question: I never played Avalon but did a lot of strategy reading.
Cantrip wanted to figure out my alignment off the bat. I’m pretty sure he’s town. I don’t think Cantrip would’ve chosen me there if he was scum.
People I’m ok with going on quests:
Me / Cantrip / D_V / Vaimes / Silver
People I won’t pass:
TheRealStinky / osieorb
People I would consider passing:
Mindreaver / shadow
People who should post (more):
Dkings / Bur / AG
I inherently don't trust him when he makes statements that I know he knows better than.
My line of reasoning shouldn't be hard for him to follow.
I thought it was "interesting" that he thought Silver was scum, I wasn't commenting on your alignment at all. And no, I don't think you're scum.
Well, I'm probably going to get accused of defending myself against over-defending myself now. But I was being really tongue in cheek here. I thought that argument was hilariously bad, and decided to highlight one of the funnier things about it. i.e. Even if it made sense that Iso would 1) make a "random list" not-random on purpose and 2) That we could successfully modgame him in such a way (when he's notoriously hard to modgame); I wasn't even the first one. So I didn't feel pressure to respond, and I wasn't trying to defend hard, I just was really tickled.
As far as passing just to put Mindreaver on a team, it gives people a reason to not vote well on whatever team he proposes and gives us less info.
@Rhand: I've played a bunch of games (well, like 3) with town!Mindreaver and I'm pretty sure this is him. It's partly a read based on stuff like proposing to send Shockwave so he sends a pass no matter what - that doesn't strike me as something that would occur to scum. And the other part is tone, I guess. He just sounds like town.
If you don't respond to my question and don't follow up on yours, then how are you planning on figuring out "what my deal is"?
Also, what happened with that weird "Mindreaver - probably Mordred" thing inbetween your 2 T/S lists?
I'm ok with Mindreaver now.
@Shadow: I read that last post 3 times and still don't understand what you're saying.
I had a scum read on you towards the beginning (which may have been wrong, but I'm sticking with it until I have reason to believe otherwise).
You have a point though on the failing the first quest aspect.
I removed the note since it wasn't as sure.
Anyways, there's no reason for Merlin to go on quests, so I'm fine.
Things you accused me of:
* claiming scum (which you simply misread)
* nothing else
Where did that scum read even come from?
You keep repeating it but never add any evidence. And then you go and make conclusions about other people based on my posts. In a bad way.
You didn't merlin-claim early game, you did little to nothing to clear yourself or others, you suggested an actively bad play of intentionally voting no to get Mindreaver nominated... I've seen no sign that you're town beyond other people's reads, for which I have yet to see a reason.
I'm sorry did you just say you edited your post? Is that allowed here? That's grounds for mod kill where I played before.
It is grounds for a modkill, however, that isn't what happened. He posted a t/s list with a note on it, and then the next time he posted it he removed the note.
I am actively looking into mindsets and started doing so as soon as the first content-posts appeared.
I suggested one thing which turned out not a good idea yes. So did Stinky. Why is he not on your scumlist?
RJST was not on my scumlist, but at this point, he's not someone who I consider to definitively be town. But I think some of his plays are more likely to come from inexperience, as well (as do some of mine)...
Anyways, I'm going to be afk until this evening. The only person I'm still convinced is definitely town is shadow.
If everyone could post their Quest 1 suggestions (not including Mindreaver) that'd be great. If you don't I'm not approving a quest with you on it.
Quest 1:
1. Me (duh)
2. Shadow (First Person to claim Merlin)
3. Vaimes (seems to be aggressively hunting, forcing people to take stances, and is Anti-DV)
Because you agree. You sound very experienced, but hedge that experience with "but I can't go into details because I'll ruin tells". You may be right, but at this point, I don't know whether to trust you or not. Plus, you indicated you would still be townreading DV if he had rescinded the Percy claim, and without the Percy claim, DV just comes off as sounding like an angry old man to me. Almost grumpy that he has to play this inconvenient game. The *only* reason I was townreading him was for the Percy claim, and if you're agreeing with that, I want to take a step back. On top of that, see my response to DV below.
Oooookay, but if your argument is "wahhhh, why'd you highlight that? We could have found out who was paying attention and who wasn't!!1!", then you don't get angry at the first person who shows that they were paying attention. Shadow pointed it out, so he was obviously reading the thread, but could have misunderstood you, as there's some ambiguity in what you meant by "claim". Silver was specifically looking for it, should have been invested enough to note any ambiguity and question it, but was quite eager to townclear you anyway. I saw it, read the context of what you said, and clarified what I thought you meant, because clear communication is town's greatest asset. But instead of handing me a prize for passing the test, you slap me upside the head?
And then Terry comes along 20 minutes after I've clarified and Silver's questioned me about it further, and still thinks that you've rescinded your Percy claim and continues to scum-push you.
Not a fan of DV, Terry, or Silver right now.
====================================================
I've never played Avalon, and I intentionally didn't do any research ahead of time because I wanted to enjoy the process of discovery. I'm a little bit of a purist sometimes.
Easy game.
Town
D_V
CantripMancer
Mindreaver
AtheistGod
Silvercrys3467
Rhand
shadowlancerx
Pick one for Town
dkingsland967
Vaimes
Bur
Scum Team
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
osieorb18
Well damn, this is as anti-town as it gets. It kind of snuck through and not many people took note of it, but what brought it to my attention was:
This is text-book scum.
Then he OMGUS Vaimes and then goes on about not being able to tell scum after the first quest. I was so fired up on the OBV Scum tells that I didn't even catch the rescinded claim, which as you can see above is ambiguous, but as I stated when ask about it by shadow, if it was taking back the Percy claim it's even more scummy and when he tries to act like it was a trap and all part of his plan to catch scum, it just seems like backpedalling.
Pretty much go down the scum tell list and DV has checked off each box along the way.
Its not just checked the OP.
K give me a minute.
Since I, Merlin, know how my PM is formatted, I suspect D_V simply misread the OP as he claimed. My PM makes it quite clear there are five scum and one of them is hidden from me.
Town:
Cantripmancer
dkingsland967
Bur
Vaimes
Mindreaver
Osieorb18
shadowlancerx
Scum:
AtheistGod
D_V
Rhand
Silvercrys3467
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Or:
Town:
Rhand
Silvercrys3467
shadowlancerx
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Mindreaver
osieorb18
Cantripmancer
Scum:
D_V
AtheistGod
Bur
dkingsland967
Vaimes
Or:
Town:
Rhand
Silvercrys3467
shadowlancerx
Mindreaver
osieorb18
Cantripmancer
Vaimes
Scum:
dkingsland967
Bur
D_V
AtheistGod
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
I really doubt D_V is town, but if he's playing some weird Percy game (which seems very unlikely):
Town:
D_V
Rhand
Silvercrys3467
shadowlancerx
osieorb18
Vaimes
Mindreaver
Scum:
dkingsland967
Bur
AtheistGod
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Cantripmancer
Literally couldn't be more scummy to make content look like more than that.