So I was hoping Joe would respond, but in true scum fashion, he waffled and defended himself instead. I don't really see any quest he proposes succeeding, anyway.
So here's why I fear voting for Rhand's quest and getting a 2-2 split. The logical next step, in my opinion, would be to declare all four of us untrustworthy, which, while true that it would be a net gain for town/net loss for scum, we'd lose four players that people seem to have stronger positive opinions on. That means we would have to eventually find six out of:
Mindreaver - His explanation for 235 is ok and sounds sincere...lean town.
dkingsland967 - Need replacement
Rhand - Likely town
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - Likely scum
Brinatoo - Still getting a feel, please post more
AtheistGod - Like his posts
osieorb18 - Don't like his posts, but forum mafia virgin, so hard to read
shadowlancerx - Lean town
So I could see Q4 with Mind, Rhand, AG, Shadow...but then things start getting questionable, with two slots going to players I don't like or can't read at this point because they haven't posted enough. I'd rather we sent the Q1 group + one, and if Q2 comes to me, that's what I'll suggest.
@terry:
Your initial "case" on DV was bad.
You kept trying to convince us of a proposal of intentionally not accepting quest proposals while that was already shown bad for town.
And it bothers me immensely that from the start you kept on pushing to get Mindreaver on the team while never mentioning yourself as candidate until you lost the "pass to get Mindreaver on the team" fight, and then suddenly you are a candidate. Actually, now that I reread that part, I think Shadow is likely town.
Are you effing kidding me? What has changed since I've played years ago? Everything DV did was 100% scummy, a literal text book of how to be scummy (claiming, declaring himself a sheep, OMGUS, etc.) I still don't grasp how an intentional pass is such a terrible thing, heck you guys are going to make me do it.
Anyways, thank you for verbalize your case in more detail, sorry for faux-cussing. I just can not fathom how DV is not scum.
What's the argument against sending D_V, Silver, and Shadow on Q2? Other than "scum may have passed the quest" which is completely null by itself. Does anyone have a case against any of those players?
@terry:
Your initial "case" on DV was bad.
You kept trying to convince us of a proposal of intentionally not accepting quest proposals while that was already shown bad for town.
And it bothers me immensely that from the start you kept on pushing to get Mindreaver on the team while never mentioning yourself as candidate until you lost the "pass to get Mindreaver on the team" fight, and then suddenly you are a candidate. Actually, now that I reread that part, I think Shadow is likely town.
Are you effing kidding me? What has changed since I've played years ago? Everything DV did was 100% scummy, a literal text book of how to be scummy (claiming, declaring himself a sheep, OMGUS, etc.) I still don't grasp how an intentional pass is such a terrible thing, heck you guys are going to make me do it.
Anyways, thank you for verbalize your case in more detail, sorry for faux-cussing. I just can not fathom how DV is not scum.
So I was hoping Joe would respond, but in true scum fashion, he waffled and defended himself instead. I don't really see any quest he proposes succeeding, anyway.
Ok, at least Rhand explained himself a bit more, which will just get repeated by anyone else FOSing me.
VOTE: NO
I still think DV is scum and I think if we got three passes last quest and we aren't swapping out the person who was most likely in my opinion, we are just opening ourselves up for more questions if it were to fail. I'd consider swapping out DV instead of shadow, for example:
Had just enough time to put my game into Day. No time to assess that party but I'm curious to see DV's opinion about him testing Vaimes straight up. That's about all I can think of on the fly but I gotta get some shuteye for this test. Hopefully more tomorrow before my Snowboarding Day Trip: I'll be V/LA this Saturday and on my mobile at best.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Attention all yoctograms, this is the end of the guess and check! Prophylaxis (Proph for short), PhD in Mathematics and Scumhunting, is present and abiding. Class is now in session!
Will be catching up tomorrow; a summary of the game is appreciated, but won't be necessary since this game is only 8 pages long.
Let me know if you guys want me to address anything specific.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So I was hoping Joe would respond, but in true scum fashion, he waffled and defended himself instead. I don't really see any quest he proposes succeeding, anyway.
Ok, at least Rhand explained himself a bit more, which will just get repeated by anyone else FOSing me.
I asked who you would send on a quest. I feel like this should be a question that's on just about everyone's mind, for as soon as a quest gets proposed, each player should be comparing the submission with their own private ideal quest team to see how it differs, who is or isn't ideal to be on it, etc. I could see [early in a Day/right after a quest is proposed/right after a major revelation in the game] a player being uncertain of 1-2 slots in their ideal team, but everyone should have SOME idea. So how did you respond?
I can't tell you right now. I actually need some people to actual present a case on me instead of just throwing shade on me for me "throwing shade" on DV, who I actually was "blasting with darkness" (not subtle like throwing shade). I think the people calling me scum need to present a reasonable case instead of just saying DERP SJT is scum before I can properly assess who I'll propose to go on a quest.
You completely abstained from the question. Not "well, my tendency would be to pick the people who aren't scumreading me, so X, Y, and Z". Not "I'd definitely send A and B, and I definitely wouldn't send Y or Z, but I'm not sure on the rest". Complete abstention. So yeah, I think you faltered, waffled, and defended ("people need to actually present evidence on me before I'm going to participate"). News flash: without lynches/deaths, I suspect "cases" are going to be a lot rarer.
Quote from TRSJT »
I still think DV is scum and I think if we got three passes last quest and we aren't swapping out the person who was most likely in my opinion, we are just opening ourselves up for more questions if it were to fail. I'd consider swapping out DV instead of shadow, for example:
Quest 2: Shadow, Silver, Rhand and Mindreaver
Hm. That's almost reasonable, which is concerning.
@terry:
Your initial "case" on DV was bad.
You kept trying to convince us of a proposal of intentionally not accepting quest proposals while that was already shown bad for town.
And it bothers me immensely that from the start you kept on pushing to get Mindreaver on the team while never mentioning yourself as candidate until you lost the "pass to get Mindreaver on the team" fight, and then suddenly you are a candidate. Actually, now that I reread that part, I think Shadow is likely town.
Are you effing kidding me? What has changed since I've played years ago? Everything DV did was 100% scummy, a literal text book of how to be scummy (claiming, declaring himself a sheep, OMGUS, etc.) I still don't grasp how an intentional pass is such a terrible thing, heck you guys are going to make me do it.
Anyways, thank you for verbalize your case in more detail, sorry for faux-cussing. I just can not fathom how DV is not scum.
How is claiming scummy? Especially since a counter-claim would keep him from ever questing?
OMGUS is NOT a scumtell.
what is the etc.?
I still think DV is scum and I think if we got three passes last quest and we aren't swapping out the person who was most likely in my opinion, we are just opening ourselves up for more questions if it were to fail. I'd consider swapping out DV instead of shadow, for example:
Quest 2: Shadow, Silver, Rhand and Mindreaver
Hm. That's almost reasonable, which is concerning.
Sorry guys, we've been passing a bad flu or something back and forth in my house and I guess it's my turn to be sick so I haven't reread yet.
Proph's entrance kind of makes me think he's town, though.
Vote: No
@Proph:
I think there's only like 36 hours left to vote on this quest or else you'll automatically vote yes. So that's kind of important. Uhm. D_V claimed Percy really early and split us between people who think he's town and people who think he's scum. Me/Shadow/D_V went on Q1 and passed it. Those are the major events anyway.
@cantrip: There is nothing wrong with saying I would like a bit more information before I give you my quest-reads. I got that info and provided. I don't see anything scummy about that, but I do see as scummy is laziness and that leads right into my case on DV...
@Rhand: OMGUS is a scum tell when part of a general non-chalant, lazy attitude towards scum hunting, which is precisely what DV has done this whole thread. If you don't see this you clearly need to go back and read DV. He's lazy about it because he knows the scum team already and has claimed not merlin who would be the one person besides scum that would.
I still think DV is scum and I think if we got three passes last quest and we aren't swapping out the person who was most likely in my opinion, we are just opening ourselves up for more questions if it were to fail. I'd consider swapping out DV instead of shadow, for example:
Quest 2: Shadow, Silver, Rhand and Mindreaver
Hm. That's almost reasonable, which is concerning.
Why "almost" reasonable?
Because I'd rather keep the OG3 and just add one. Given that Joe's obviously not going to send DV on a quest, it's understandable that he wouldn't leave DV in, so it's probably the best I could expect from someone I strongly suspect is scum. Makes me wonder, though, which (or how many) of the four is scum, if Joe is up for that team.
Oh, hey Proph! Long time no play.
Silver taking the time to play and bring Proph up to speed despite being sick gives me town vibes.
@Vaimes: Why do you think the dkings/Proph slot is scum?
Terry, nothing you have said about D_V overrides his claim and passing of Q1. Ignore D_V and put together any case you can for town or scum among the 10 other players. Getting hung up on your D_V stance is not useful.
What's your thought on this current quest? (Silvercrys3467/D_V/Vaimes/Cantripmancer)
Basically, why are you voting yes?
My current thoughts are "Wow there is some very interesting info to be gleaned from this quest actually firing" but I'm not dead set for it, as I think doing me/silver/DV/+1 would be better. However, Cantrip's post and vote make me really want to see the results here.
I admit the thought hadn't really occurred to me. Would Proph even use a gimmick to cover his weak scum game? It's pretty bad by reputation, but you've played with him more than me. I thought it would feel more stilted/fake if he was scum.
(Also, while I appreciate the thought Cantrip, posting while sick is NAI for me. I'm sort of addicted, I just can't concentrate long enough to read a bunch of posts right now.)
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
D_V claimed Percival, and since there is no counterclaim, I think he's just likely town. I'm following Cantrip's line of reasoning on this one: Claiming Percival is anti-town because it aids us in the short term but harms us in the long term. Still, I don't think scum!D_V would one for one himself by claiming Percival and having someone else counterclaim him. IMO, it's similar to claiming a confirmed power role in an open setup.
Quote from Cantripmancer »
Oy, the lack of flips is going to throw me all game. Ok, so really the only downside for scum claiming Percival is that the real Percival knows they're scum and will discourage them going on a quest. So if DV is scum, he's not Morgana, as the real Percival would see one of his two "Merlin" possibilities and know which one could be trusted. But he would still know that DV is lying, and would discourage quests that included DV. Which is why town would be highly unlikely to false claim Percival, right? So it still feels likely that DV really is Percival.
Vaimes - I know I got snowed by Vaimes the last time I played with him, but there have been some tonal markers that make me think he is town this game. In his first post, I like how he went "Mind/Vaimes/Cantrip mission is a go". I know Vaimes tends to be pretty not-confident in his scum game, and I feel like he wouldn't have the balls to instantly nominate himself for the first quest? I dunno, maybe putting yourself in the quest is something both scum and town do, but I like the tone of how Vaimes did it. His questions to D_V are also pretty solid. I can sort of see his reasoning as to why he wanted D_V to not be put on any quests, and I like how he re-evaluated in #236 (as opposed to JoeTerry, whom I'll get into). I also like Vaimes's "I've never been scum in Avalon, just realized this now". It's the kind of mindset thing that Vaimes probably doesn't even think about if he's scum.
So yeah, Vaimes is a pretty solid townread from me this game based on how many town!Vaimes games I've seen - I can sort of read him better when he gets pressured because he starts getting real snippy and transparent, but I've seen enough tonally town markers from him to be comfortable for now.
I liked Cantrip's posts a lot during the early game; specifically "let me take a stab at why I want to quest with you" w/r/t Rhand. Also adding onto that,
Rhand's "because you love me" feels kind of cheeky/on the nose to come from scum/scum. One thing I was a fan of was Cantrip's mindset explanation of his MU game (I was slightly following that game because Reasons, and I knew how crazy it was). He's pretty transparent about laying out his reasoning, and he's still showing a mindset of trying to get reads on players (which is why he assigned the townread to shadow). Except: Why did Mindreaver get town points for post #42? That post was a very mechanical post to me. I also liked "Oy, the lack of flips is going to throw me all game". Him catching himself on the coaching tell w/r/t Silver and then redacting it I think was a townie thought process. Overall, I feel like his posts have been pretty solve-y and solid? It's like, I find myself nodding along when I read his posts.
As for Silver, I know that if I keep townreading him in every game he's eventually going to get good as scum and then he's going to crush me. That said, the first thing that I liked about him is that he went "Must... resist... urge... to be... pocketed... again..." on shadow's . When I was reading through, I liked shadow's for some weird gut reasons, and Silver liked what I like (mind-meld) and it makes sense for Silver to be paranoid about shadow based off of how hard Silver was pocketed by shadow in Bare Bones. Another thing I liked was that he was intentionally trying to withhold information from the scum team in #127, and the admittance that he "is" coaching feels like he's lacking self awareness. I like the tone of Silver's #276 and finally I like how he said that him helping me catching up to Cantrip was not alignment-indicative - if he was scum he could have easily taken the town-points.
Second tier of townreads.
I'm kind of trusting about Rhand's "not scum, let's quest"? One of these days my reliance on the "I'm town" tell will land me in hot water. I like how Rhand was engaging with osieorb to get a better read on him. Same with Rhand's 180; I like how he's saying that he's actively looking into mindsets because that was the general vibe I got from reading his posts. His reads are also quite similar to mine, and the way he's re-evaluating his Mindreaver read makes me feel like it came from town - he asks other people about their read on Mindreaver and then says that he doesn't trust him. After the outburst, though, Rhand re-evaluated and is more comfortable with him. I totally see his mindset and thought process behind his Mindreaver read and it feels like a townie, organic thought process that is interested in solving the game. I'm a little unconfident in this read though and out of my green townreads, Rhand might be the first one I need to re-evaluate because it's been a while since I've seen his scumgame and I know it is really good.
Mindreaver: I was nonplussed by Mindreaver's mechanics posts early in the game but I feel like he has some townie tonal markers. His "I am the only trustworthy person here" kiiiiiind of feels genuine if I squint? He pokes at lurkers and talks/asks questions about D_V. He then says that Silver is cleared for [redacted reasons] which I like. I also like how his quest proposal also mostly consists of my townreads. I also like this post:
Quote from Mindreaver »
Well, I'm probably going to get accused of defending myself against over-defending myself now. But I was being really tongue in cheek here. I thought that argument was hilariously bad, and decided to highlight one of the funnier things about it. i.e. Even if it made sense that Iso would 1) make a "random list" not-random on purpose and 2) That we could successfully modgame him in such a way (when he's notoriously hard to modgame); I wasn't even the first one. So I didn't feel pressure to respond, and I wasn't trying to defend hard, I just was really tickled
Seeing an argument against you is "hilariously bad" and wanting to ridicule it feels more like coming from a town mindset, since from your point of view all arguments against you are terrible. I also really like his post in 248 where he's trying to get more information from the quest process.
shadowlancerx: I like how shadow was the first to bring up the claiming Merlin stuff (even though that's a terrible reason for townreading him) and he did the smiley things that for weird bizarre gut reason I liked. His posts have been pretty short though (one-liners mostly full of questions). His 288 I found to be a pretty townie post.
---------------
Gonna cut off this post here for now because I've been working on this post/catching up for like 2-3 hours and my scumreads should be self-explanatory. With regards to the quest voting, I think I'll play devil's advocate and
Vote Yes
It's literally all of my blue townreads, so if it passes or fails either way I think it'll help me with my reads. If it passes, then we put the scum in a tight spot and if it fails, then it'll give me a chance to re-evaluate my reads. I understand sort of why people are voting No on it, but I'm pretty sold by Rhand's proposal myself.
Later tonight/tomorrow I'll explain my scumreads. If anyone has any questions about my reads please let me know.
And because this post wouldn't be complete without a Sho roleplay:
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Eh... Actually. I kind of like Proph's read wall. Even though read walls are ~probably not great in this format.
(It's possible I'm being pocketed by his toan. I'll burn that bridge if this quest fires and fails.)
osie, humor me and participate in an exercise for a second.
Give a top townread outside of the Q1 group and a little explanation as to why. Pretend the mod confirms that there is one mafia among four players: the Q1 group and your top townread.
Who is mafia and why?
Just want something fresh to swirl around in my mind while I'm rereading and have you here.
If my proposal fails, I think Vaimes, D_V, Mind, me is our safest bet.
So here's why I fear voting for Rhand's quest and getting a 2-2 split. The logical next step, in my opinion, would be to declare all four of us untrustworthy, which, while true that it would be a net gain for town/net loss for scum, we'd lose four players that people seem to have stronger positive opinions on. That means we would have to eventually find six out of:
Mindreaver - His explanation for 235 is ok and sounds sincere...lean town.
dkingsland967 - Need replacement
Rhand - Likely town
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry - Likely scum
Brinatoo - Still getting a feel, please post more
AtheistGod - Like his posts
osieorb18 - Don't like his posts, but forum mafia virgin, so hard to read
shadowlancerx - Lean town
So I could see Q4 with Mind, Rhand, AG, Shadow...but then things start getting questionable, with two slots going to players I don't like or can't read at this point because they haven't posted enough. I'd rather we sent the Q1 group + one, and if Q2 comes to me, that's what I'll suggest.
Vote: No
Sorry, Rhand.
Anyways, thank you for verbalize your case in more detail, sorry for faux-cussing. I just can not fathom how DV is not scum.
DV is Percival, that's how he isn't scum.
VOTE: NO
I still think DV is scum and I think if we got three passes last quest and we aren't swapping out the person who was most likely in my opinion, we are just opening ourselves up for more questions if it were to fail. I'd consider swapping out DV instead of shadow, for example:
Quest 2: Shadow, Silver, Rhand and Mindreaver
What do you mean by this?
Yes (1): shadowlancerx
No (2): Cantripmancer, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
6 is majority.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Shadow is currently Yes.
What's your thought on this current quest? (Silvercrys3467/D_V/Vaimes/Cantripmancer)
Basically, why are you voting yes?
Attention all yoctograms, this is the end of the guess and check! Prophylaxis (Proph for short), PhD in Mathematics and Scumhunting, is present and abiding. Class is now in session!
Will be catching up tomorrow; a summary of the game is appreciated, but won't be necessary since this game is only 8 pages long.
Let me know if you guys want me to address anything specific.
Fixed.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You completely abstained from the question. Not "well, my tendency would be to pick the people who aren't scumreading me, so X, Y, and Z". Not "I'd definitely send A and B, and I definitely wouldn't send Y or Z, but I'm not sure on the rest". Complete abstention. So yeah, I think you faltered, waffled, and defended ("people need to actually present evidence on me before I'm going to participate"). News flash: without lynches/deaths, I suspect "cases" are going to be a lot rarer.
Hm. That's almost reasonable, which is concerning.
Hm. What changed?
I obviously don't trust Silver over myself, but I would accept it.
How is claiming scummy? Especially since a counter-claim would keep him from ever questing?
OMGUS is NOT a scumtell.
what is the etc.?
How are we making you do an "intentional" pass?
Why "almost" reasonable?
Sorry you replaced into a scum slot.
Proph's entrance kind of makes me think he's town, though.
Vote: No
@Proph:
I think there's only like 36 hours left to vote on this quest or else you'll automatically vote yes. So that's kind of important. Uhm. D_V claimed Percy really early and split us between people who think he's town and people who think he's scum. Me/Shadow/D_V went on Q1 and passed it. Those are the major events anyway.
@Rhand: OMGUS is a scum tell when part of a general non-chalant, lazy attitude towards scum hunting, which is precisely what DV has done this whole thread. If you don't see this you clearly need to go back and read DV. He's lazy about it because he knows the scum team already and has claimed not merlin who would be the one person besides scum that would.
Oh, hey Proph! Long time no play.
Silver taking the time to play and bring Proph up to speed despite being sick gives me town vibes.
@Vaimes: Why do you think the dkings/Proph slot is scum?
I'd say that this is a bad group because it adds more unknowns.
Vote No
@Cantrip: see above
I was hanging out with friends today and did not have time to read the thread.
I will read it tomorrow + the rules because I've literally only played one game of Avalon my entire life and that was a 30 minute session online.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I am
the PriestMerlin, so I'm town.Townreads:
D_V claimed Percival, and since there is no counterclaim, I think he's just likely town. I'm following Cantrip's line of reasoning on this one: Claiming Percival is anti-town because it aids us in the short term but harms us in the long term. Still, I don't think scum!D_V would one for one himself by claiming Percival and having someone else counterclaim him. IMO, it's similar to claiming a confirmed power role in an open setup.
Vaimes - I know I got snowed by Vaimes the last time I played with him, but there have been some tonal markers that make me think he is town this game. In his first post, I like how he went "Mind/Vaimes/Cantrip mission is a go". I know Vaimes tends to be pretty not-confident in his scum game, and I feel like he wouldn't have the balls to instantly nominate himself for the first quest? I dunno, maybe putting yourself in the quest is something both scum and town do, but I like the tone of how Vaimes did it. His questions to D_V are also pretty solid. I can sort of see his reasoning as to why he wanted D_V to not be put on any quests, and I like how he re-evaluated in #236 (as opposed to JoeTerry, whom I'll get into). I also like Vaimes's "I've never been scum in Avalon, just realized this now". It's the kind of mindset thing that Vaimes probably doesn't even think about if he's scum.
So yeah, Vaimes is a pretty solid townread from me this game based on how many town!Vaimes games I've seen - I can sort of read him better when he gets pressured because he starts getting real snippy and transparent, but I've seen enough tonally town markers from him to be comfortable for now.
I liked Cantrip's posts a lot during the early game; specifically "let me take a stab at why I want to quest with you" w/r/t Rhand. Also adding onto that,
Rhand's "because you love me" feels kind of cheeky/on the nose to come from scum/scum. One thing I was a fan of was Cantrip's mindset explanation of his MU game (I was slightly following that game because Reasons, and I knew how crazy it was). He's pretty transparent about laying out his reasoning, and he's still showing a mindset of trying to get reads on players (which is why he assigned the townread to shadow). Except: Why did Mindreaver get town points for post #42? That post was a very mechanical post to me. I also liked "Oy, the lack of flips is going to throw me all game". Him catching himself on the coaching tell w/r/t Silver and then redacting it I think was a townie thought process. Overall, I feel like his posts have been pretty solve-y and solid? It's like, I find myself nodding along when I read his posts.
As for Silver, I know that if I keep townreading him in every game he's eventually going to get good as scum and then he's going to crush me. That said, the first thing that I liked about him is that he went "Must... resist... urge... to be... pocketed... again..." on shadow's . When I was reading through, I liked shadow's for some weird gut reasons, and Silver liked what I like (mind-meld) and it makes sense for Silver to be paranoid about shadow based off of how hard Silver was pocketed by shadow in Bare Bones. Another thing I liked was that he was intentionally trying to withhold information from the scum team in #127, and the admittance that he "is" coaching feels like he's lacking self awareness. I like the tone of Silver's #276 and finally I like how he said that him helping me catching up to Cantrip was not alignment-indicative - if he was scum he could have easily taken the town-points.
Second tier of townreads.
I'm kind of trusting about Rhand's "not scum, let's quest"? One of these days my reliance on the "I'm town" tell will land me in hot water. I like how Rhand was engaging with osieorb to get a better read on him. Same with Rhand's 180; I like how he's saying that he's actively looking into mindsets because that was the general vibe I got from reading his posts. His reads are also quite similar to mine, and the way he's re-evaluating his Mindreaver read makes me feel like it came from town - he asks other people about their read on Mindreaver and then says that he doesn't trust him. After the outburst, though, Rhand re-evaluated and is more comfortable with him. I totally see his mindset and thought process behind his Mindreaver read and it feels like a townie, organic thought process that is interested in solving the game. I'm a little unconfident in this read though and out of my green townreads, Rhand might be the first one I need to re-evaluate because it's been a while since I've seen his scumgame and I know it is really good.
Mindreaver: I was nonplussed by Mindreaver's mechanics posts early in the game but I feel like he has some townie tonal markers. His "I am the only trustworthy person here" kiiiiiind of feels genuine if I squint? He pokes at lurkers and talks/asks questions about D_V. He then says that Silver is cleared for [redacted reasons] which I like. I also like how his quest proposal also mostly consists of my townreads. I also like this post:
Seeing an argument against you is "hilariously bad" and wanting to ridicule it feels more like coming from a town mindset, since from your point of view all arguments against you are terrible. I also really like his post in 248 where he's trying to get more information from the quest process.
shadowlancerx: I like how shadow was the first to bring up the claiming Merlin stuff (even though that's a terrible reason for townreading him) and he did the smiley things that for weird bizarre gut reason I liked. His posts have been pretty short though (one-liners mostly full of questions). His 288 I found to be a pretty townie post.
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Gonna cut off this post here for now because I've been working on this post/catching up for like 2-3 hours and my scumreads should be self-explanatory. With regards to the quest voting, I think I'll play devil's advocate and
Vote Yes
It's literally all of my blue townreads, so if it passes or fails either way I think it'll help me with my reads. If it passes, then we put the scum in a tight spot and if it fails, then it'll give me a chance to re-evaluate my reads. I understand sort of why people are voting No on it, but I'm pretty sold by Rhand's proposal myself.
Later tonight/tomorrow I'll explain my scumreads. If anyone has any questions about my reads please let me know.
And because this post wouldn't be complete without a Sho roleplay:
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Current Votes:
2 Yes: Shadow, Proph
5 No: Cantrip, Terry, Silver, D_V, and AG.
Vote No
vote: no
Current Votes (Quest started by Rhand):
2 Yes: Shadowlancerx, Prophylaxis
7 No: Cantripmancer, RJST, Silvercrys3467, D_V, AtheistGod, Mindreaver, Brinatoo, Osieorb18.
Currently hasn't voted:
Vaimes
(It's possible I'm being pocketed by his toan. I'll burn that bridge if this quest fires and fails.)
vote: Yes
Current Votes
3 Yes: Shadowlancerx, Prophylaxis, Silvercrys3467
7 No: Cantripmancer, RJST, D_V, AtheistGod, Mindreaver, Brinatoo, Osieorb18.
Hasn't Voted: Vaimes
About 40 hours remain.
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Looks like my vote isn't very relevant now. I have no idea why everyone's voting no, as far as I can recall Rhand's list looked good.
I'll try to do a reread and poke at things tonight, I designated today my "day of productivity" but that probably won't last.
Initial response to Proph wall is that I like it (only read the first couple townreads), but he has ways to go to earn my trust.
Unless enough (two) people switch to Yes. Which given the current track record isn't so unlikely.
Give a top townread outside of the Q1 group and a little explanation as to why. Pretend the mod confirms that there is one mafia among four players: the Q1 group and your top townread.
Who is mafia and why?
Just want something fresh to swirl around in my mind while I'm rereading and have you here.