ToDay's competing wagons are going to be DV and Rod. Obviously.
More people need to post thoughts on that.
No yeah jailer.
Remember our conversation?
Vote Vaimes
D_V is talking to someone that is obviously not going to respond, or outright DNE. Alright, that is kinda fishy. Also, if he really is jailed, the brevity of the night doesn't make sense to me. The Jailor needs time to talk to his target.
To further counter his statement that he is helped by a doc, D_V is not a potential NK target to me. He is extremely suspected as scum by Rodemy, and we all know he is going to be a lynch target day 2. Therefore no TP is going to go help him.
One theory that I had is that D_V is the jailor, and he is ****ing around just to draw enough flak from town that he won't get the NK. No one have counterclaimed being jailed yet, so this might just be the case.
You're high as *****. The night literally went to the moment it could.
Honestly, in what world is D_V not scum here? We had no kill, he was jailed, he had a bunch of bs claims yesterday probably to confuse the PRs...I just don't see how he isn't blatantly scum. Can anyone explain how he isn't our instantly chosen lynch today?
I see that someone asked me for a t/s list, just got off my first day back at school and been up since 7am so I'll get to it after homework and everything, just checking in because I feel like this game just got solved overnight.
Honestly, in what world is D_V not scum here? We had no kill, he was jailed, he had a bunch of bs claims yesterday probably to confuse the PRs...I just don't see how he isn't blatantly scum. Can anyone explain how he isn't our instantly chosen lynch today?
I see that someone asked me for a t/s list, just got off my first day back at school and been up since 7am so I'll get to it after homework and everything, just checking in because I feel like this game just got solved overnight.
How do my claims confuse the PR?
How.
They were name claims.
Ha. Haha. Did you just happen to foeget you claimed nuetral?
Thats not a name claim.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Honestly, in what world is D_V not scum here? We had no kill, he was jailed, he had a bunch of bs claims yesterday probably to confuse the PRs...I just don't see how he isn't blatantly scum. Can anyone explain how he isn't our instantly chosen lynch today?
I see that someone asked me for a t/s list, just got off my first day back at school and been up since 7am so I'll get to it after homework and everything, just checking in because I feel like this game just got solved overnight.
How do my claims confuse the PR?
How.
They were name claims.
Ha. Haha. Did you just happen to foeget you claimed nuetral?
Thats not a name claim.
But the multiple claims part is what he said.
Please read what is being said. I don't 100% disagree with that point but that wasn't what he said.
You are tunneling pretty hard and need to snap out of it.
It makes no sense when I created as much of a crazy free lynch today over the Rodemy things.
Then again when I told the jailer they said that was exactly what they thought. So maybe I out thought myself?
2 Questions:
1. Are you saying you and the jailor knew you are preventing a kill through the jail? If so, how?
2. If the answer to the first question is No, then the jailor purpose of targeting you was to kill you. Am I correct?
Jesus christ there is no way you can be that dumb.
A blocked nk? How convienient is that?
Why wouldn't scum just kill me and push d_v for lying?
D_v isn't town.
Because if they can get a lynch on you. And not on me. Then they get to lynch me the next day. Its literally 2 free days.
@Mete0rShower A jailer is someone who puts a person in "Jail". When in jail they can talk to that person. And ultimately decided if they want to kill who is in jail that night. My jailer also revealed his identity to me. But I'm keeping that one close to the chest.
Why do you trust the jailor?
Did you get a comfirmation from the mod that they are town?
Because I think he is scummy, even though my jail buddy had him at null at the end. I'm still not 100% but the way vaimes is aproaching the day is not scummy to me.
2 Questions:
1. Are you saying you and the jailor knew you are preventing a kill through the jail? If so, how?
2. If the answer to the first question is No, then the jailor purpose of targeting you was to kill you. Am I correct?
I don't get question one.
To explain more if someone is targeted in a jail it typically fizzles.
Or if your question is about me. I just don't see why the scum would ever kill Rodemy or I, it is too much WIFOM. And they know we both are not mafia so they won't kill us.
Umm to answer number 2 possibly? It can also be used as a talking device, which I believe my jailer used it for. I didn't actually ask them why.
Why do you trust the jailor?
Did you get a comfirmation from the mod that they are town?
A) This is a normal.
B) Why would he leave me alive.
C) No I wasn't told but look at A and B.
D) We did a lot of Town Scum lists during the day and his was very well thought out. More so than mine was even. Just all around town.
Hey Vaimes, since I haven't read anything before the last page and don't know the context of your statement, please tell me why you were fearmongering about this game possibly being multiball.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Hey Vaimes, since I haven't read anything before the last page and don't know the context of your statement, please tell me why you were fearmongering about this game possibly being multiball.
Thanks!
Oh ***** that's right.
Yo Iso go read the game mang or go read from like post 400 or so.
So I'm not allowed to be suspicious of more than the amount of scum we have?
It's that how are half the players in the game potential scum to you, it just comes across as so eager. I understand 3-5 at most, but we're talking 7/13 players who posted, and this is when a lot of people were v/la as well.
What are your current reads on those players?
What makes you think they're scum?
Have you changed your opinion about any of them?
I expect answers to all of these questions.
You: I’m starting to doubt. I’m getting the feeling you really think I’m scum.
Hunt: I still think he’s not town. He isn’t posting enough and isn’t inquisitive.
D_V: He lied a few times too much. I think I know who the jailer is and I would like him to explain why he chose not to kill D_V. I’m not sure what to think. More on him later.
Red: I explained why I thought he was scum early on. Anak hasn’t done anything to change that read.
Scarbo: I prefer not to explain this read.
Atog: lurking is his scum meta. But it turns out he wasn’t lurking but simply disappeared, which is null. No read here.
So...I'm confused, is it standard that in a two scum team setup, each team would know who was on the other team? If that's really what's happening, that seems odd to me.
No i dont know the other team except dv who is obv
@Iso: Would zomg be this bold if DV was his buddy? If Vaimes / D_V are scum with zomg, then the scumteam did a whole lot of distancing yesterDay. Vaimes vs D_V and zomg vs D_V.
I really need you to explain that D_V / Vaimes read. I have a hard time seeing Vaimes as scum.
zomg is scum, about to be lynched, and the last thing he does is make sure DV looks awful by claiming that he's on another mafia team and "bussing" him.
This only works after it's been proven that the setup is multiball, be it by scum flipping specifically as Team A or Team B, or after two scum each with different team flavor flips.
I could see zomg trying to spitefully get town to eliminate a Neutral. But DV retracted his Neutral claim, so.
I don't know why he even claimed here. If this setup has one scumteam, then he's very unlikely to get lynched or vigged after getting zomg lynched. And no vig is going to shoot him just because zomg said so, unless zomg's flip proves that we're in a multiball.
So. My overall feelings here are "leave DV alone if one scumteam, kill with fire if multiball."
Which he shouldn't have to worry about, since he's insisting it's a regular setup.
Moving on.
@Vaimes: if it would’ve been multiball, what makes you think zomg had a correct read on D_V?
In your analysis post, you say Shadow is an unlikely partner to zomg. Why?
Anak r 0mega
Mete0r r Atogaholic
Iso r kittyslot
Ghosting
Huntzilla
Five names, probably ~three more scum. Kill them all.
I personally want to look into Anak and Hunt.
Iso and Mete0r need to catch up, and they're both solid players that I personally think I can get a decent read on.
Ghosting is eh, participatory and I'll let him word-vomit some more.
Vote Anak
Ehm and how did you go from D_V and Rod to this?
Gah I write this whole thing to then realize Iso is probably right. That whole conversation toDay feels completely unnatural. D_V / Vaimes and I think if we have a 4th it’s Anak for trying out if a Ghosting wagon is a possibility.
Especially this post where he tries to get Rodemy on Ghosting without voting Ghosting himself:
Like I want everyone to take a step back here and realize what a vote on me means.
It means that you think that I
A) Counter name claimed my scum partner
B) Lead to his lynch to blend in to the town
C) I then out myself again? For what end?
D) I make myself a target instead of just blending in again.
E) ???????
F) ???????
I believe our Doctor or Roleblocker stopped the kill last night.
I was jailed last night.
I will tell the same thing I told the Jailer.
"I claimed Tracer for the lul value.
Rodemy counter claimed me. Which was god damn great. I just wanted to instantly act as ridiculous as I could. The scum now won't waste a night kill on our highest thought of town player because of all of the WIFOM and now they definitely won't waste a kill on me either."
You say that you think the doctor or roleblocker stopped the kill, while you were jailed.
The DOCTOR or ROLEBLOCKER while you know there’s a JAILOR?
You know that saying that you were the NK makes no sense, so without thinking you throw out some roles that can’t co-exist with a jailor.
Then you go on Vaimes, but as soon as Iso calls you AND VAIMES scum, you switch to Iso.
The guy called your biggest scumspect scum. He even voted Vaimes with you.
Seems to me that you saw a good shot at unvoting your buddy and voting someone else instead.
The weirdest of it all is that now you’re voting WITH VAIMES.
The town reaction would've been to convince Iso that you're not scum but that Vaimes is.
Which makes me think Iso is right about the 2 of you.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Good grief, people. 12 hours gone by and 100 posts to read? I'm starting this after Iso's 798 (yes, Iso, read the game, pls), but I'll bet there's another 20-30 posts before I get done.
I did some rereading during the Night focusing on Zomg's interactions, and while I didn't get all the way through, I did find some items of interest:
First off, to save time and space, there are so many of Rod's posts in my notes with "+town" next to them, it's ridiculous.
Vaimes
• Zomg's first post is 144, in which he responds to Rhand asking if Scarbo or myself even know the game started. Zomg explains why he's been a little absent (logical), then explains why Kitty's been absent (logical, she's his sister), then explains why Vaimes has been absent. Then goes "yada yada yada". Maybe null, as maybe (as he states) he knows that Vaimes is generally absent on weekends, but it struck an odd note for me.
• In 257, Zomg casts shade on every single town read...except Vaimes.
• 349 Zomg answers Rod's question to Vaimes. I originally thought that this was more indicative of Vaimes being town, but maybe not.
• 352-353: This is an odd two-part post on Vaimes' part. 352 feels very natural and towny, but then all of a sudden in 353 he feels the need to announce that it's going to be difficult to reach a lynch D1 because of lurkers, and then randomly indicates that he's going to pressure Hunt? This may be a bit tinfoily, but coming at the top of page 8, I almost wonder if he posted 352 before he saw that Rod had called out Zomg in 351, saw Rod's post, and felt compelled to distract from it.
@Vaimes: Can you explain your mindset behind making 353?
• 377 Vaimes agrees with the Zomg wagon, but pushes toward Rhand.
• In 385 Vaimes does a good job of killing the bad modgaming, then 386 feels strange, as he highlights that he's trying to change the conversation. Then 387 feels really strange, as he says "What are even my reads" and then townclears himself, Ophid, and Rod, and says everyone else is "vaguely lynchable".
@Vaimes: What happened to Zomg? What happened to Rhand? (You know, as you intimated just 10 posts earlier?)
• 422 Vaimes deflects my questions and declares VLA, then in 433 he says "almost forgot" and votes Zomg, then says if Zomg flips scum, we can probably leave DV alone. If Vaimes flips scum, I feel it likely that DV is scum, too. I also don't like that "almost forgot" + vote, because Vaimes hadn't been discussing Zomg or anything, he had been interacting with me and Scarbo (411) and randomly wondering if Kitty was going to post and asking who else hadn't posted. It feels like he wanted to get in on the wagon before he went VLA in case Zomg got lynched while Vaimes was on vacay.
• 425 is Vaimes goodquestioning Zomg, but Zomg is already on the ropes, so less of a +town than if he had started questioning Zomg prior.
• 427-428 Zomg and Vaimes go back and forth. Vaimes continues to ask pointed questions.
• 453 Zomg asks Shadow to unvote (to prevent the quicklynch, hah), but it's Vaimes in 454 who quickly unvotes.
• Vaimes' 506-507 stood out, as although Vaimes has pointed out MULTIPLE issues with Zomg, it's not until 506 that he finally sounds "convinced" that Zomg should be lynched. And then 507 he floats the idea of ending the day. Again, an odd one-two set of posts that felt off to me.
DV
• In 295, DV one-line attacks Zomg. This is where DV says he started the push on Zomg, but it's hardly a push, and then he disappears for literally two days while Rod and I build the case on Zomg, then joins back in with a naked vote when Zomg's speedwagon appears.
• 358 is DV's jump on the Zomg wagon (naked).
• 368 Zomg pops back in with "I'll answer questions later, and oh yeah, Vote DV!"
@All: In your experience, when scum first realize they're under serious scrutiny, do they divert onto town or onto a scumbuddy?
I ask because it seems like before this point, Zomg wasn't looking at DV. I even gave DV slight town points because Zomg seemed to be pocketing him in his T/S list, and then Zomg slightly smeared DV in 296. But he's really on the defensive now, and DV is who he chooses to divert to.
• 370-371: I can't tell if DV's 4-player scumteam mention followed by 1/3 correction is a slip or not.
• 443 DV says Zomg is scum fixating on a neutral, but not really pushing the wagon/case.
• 444 Zomg's response to DV is odd. It sounds like he's saying "I already explained why I'm fixating on a neutral; get off my back!" It's more annoyed than defensive.
• 460 DV counter-name-claims Zomg. I agree that Zomg was already on the ropes, so it feels odd for town!DV to gambit like this. I feel like DV wanted to get Zomg lynched without Zomg having a chance to claim. If DV flips scum, we should go back and examine the interactions here for why Zomg's posts were making DV nervous.
• 461 Zomg doesn't instavote DV in response...but I realized that Zomg "voted" DV waaaaaaaay back in 368. I say "voted" because Zomg typoed and the vote didn't bold. Brinatoo correctly didn't indicate it in the votecount in 431, but Zomg never questioned it or asked Brin to fix it. I don't think his DV vote was serious, even to the point that he had sorta forgotten about it himself by the time DV counter-name-claimed.
• 468 Zomg really pushes the "when I flip Angela, what then, eh? Eh?!" angle. Feels really odd, given that we would ALREADY be questioning DV for it. Why is Zomg focusing so much attention on DV?
@DV: Explain in detail why you awarded town points to Rod in 483, please?
Other
• 257 is Zomg's T/S House of Waffles. I think there's likely some gems hidden in here if we can decipher them, as no suspicion had really been leveled at Zomg by this point. Of note:
- I gave +town points to Omega for Zomg listing him at the bottom of the null reads...even below the two players who had only posted once at that point (Scarbo and Kitty).
- I also gave +town points to Rhand for "bottoming" Zomg's scumlist. Zomg implied a tie between Rhand and Atog-Meteor, so there's a chance that one of them is scum, but that's tenuous.
- Zomg sounds nervous when he gives his Ghosting read. At first I thought he was giving Ghosting "easy" things to argue/counter, but Ghosting was already under suspicion at that point, so I think this was Zomg trying to justify joining that wagon/furthering it. This town!Ghosting feeling is reinforced for me in 258, when Ghosting responds, but doesn't even mention that Zomg poorly asserted that Ghosting "pre-emptively" posted games. If Zomg was setting Ghosting up with softball responses, I think Ghosting would have jumped all over that.
• In 283, Zomg asks Hunt who Smoke is; slight +town to Omega, as I think if he were a scumbuddy, Zomg would have been more aware of him.
• Rhand is the first to call Zomg out on his bad T/S list, and Rhand isn't pulling punches. +town
• Zomg's response to Rhand feels placating. More +town to Rhand.
• In 302, Ghosting responds to Zomg's T/S list and uses a lot of words to basically say what Rhand said, then calls Zomg "certainly not a townread", which I didn't like...
• ...but in 315, Zomg responds to me and Ghosting, but pushes Ghosting even when answering my questions, which made me feel better about Ghosting.
• 315 is also the post where Zomg says "Wow the mood of this game changed fast", which implies to me that he's feeling pressure/going on the defensive. Everything after this I treated with an additional layer of wifom.
• 335 Zomg defends Ophid with the Noob card and sounds like he's giving advice to Ophid. Before 315, I would have seen this as a slight -town for Ophid, but with Zomg on the defensive, it may be +town (or just null).
• 345 Omega responds to Zomg's "who's Smoke" with :coolface:, but doesn't weigh in on Zomg at all. He does lightly question Ghosting's attack on Zomg.
• 351 Rod calls Zomg out on answering for Vaimes.
• 355 is Rod's vote on Zomg to start the wagon. 356 is my post with a pbpa of Zomg, 357 is Rhand's jump on the wagon (nearly naked, but Rhand's done good things otherwise), 358 is DV's jump on the wagon (naked, and he hasn't done good things otherwise). 359 is my jump on the wagon.
• 426 Zomg says "Dv/Buddy/Buddy/Buddy combinations". Is this a slip indicating a 4-person scumteam, or is he already in static mode?
• 452 Shadow's vote on Zomg sounds, as Anak pointed out, nervous and indecisive. His explanation to Anak in 489 could be legit, but I still don't like 452.
• 459 Ghosting pressures Zomg. +town
Around this time the wifom really starts to pile up, and while there are lots of interactions, I started getting burnt out realizing that Zomg was obviously scum at this point but we continued the Day for another 200 posts. I only made it to 550 or so before I ran out of Night, but Rhand, Rod, Shadow, Vaimes, and Ghosting all ask good questions/poke holes in Zomg's claim multiple times.
tl;dr:
• There were a lot of odd interactions between Zomg and Vaimes early on, Vaimes didn't do a whole lot to scrutinize Zomg until after Zomg came under significant fire, and even then his attacks feel reluctant.
• Zomg fixated on DV a lot, and DV's choices have been decidedly odd.
I support pressure on either Vaimes or Zomg. Not voting because while I skimmed the last 100 posts or so, I haven't really had the chance to dig into them, and I'm also not sure where the votes are at. I feel like Vaimes' interactions/choices are more sneaky, so I'm leaning toward voting him, while DV's choices could be a town gambit maybe, and Zomg pushed on DV really really hard. Still can't wrap my head around the Zomg-DV relationship + DV's bizarre zounterclaim behavior.
I originally had these points listed out in chronological order, but it was obnoxious to read and didn't really help make my points re: Vaimes and DV, but in case it helps to see the chronology:
First off, to save time and space, there are so many of Rod's posts in my notes with "+town" next to them, it's ridiculous.
• Zomg's first post is 144, in which he responds to Rhand asking if Scarbo or myself even know the game started. Zomg explains why he's been a little absent (logical), then explains why Kitty's been absent (logical, she's his sister), then explains why Vaimes has been absent. Then goes "yada yada yada". Maybe null, as maybe (as he states) he knows that Vaimes is generally absent on weekends, but it struck an odd note for me.
• 257 is Zomg's T/S House of Waffles. I think there's likely some gems hidden in here if we can decipher them, as no suspicion had really been leveled at Zomg by this point. Of note:
- Zomg casts shade on every single town read...except Vaimes.
- I gave +town points to Omega for Zomg listing him at the bottom of the null reads...even below the two players who had only posted once at that point (Scarbo and Kitty).
- I also gave +town points to Rhand for "bottoming" Zomg's scumlist. Zomg implied a tie between Rhand and Atog-Meteor, so there's a chance that one of them is scum, but that's tenuous.
- Zomg sounds nervous when he gives his Ghosting read. At first I thought he was giving Ghosting "easy" things to argue/counter, but Ghosting was already under suspicion at that point, so I think this was Zomg trying to justify joining that wagon/furthering it. This town!Ghosting feeling is reinforced for me in 258, when Ghosting responds, but doesn't even mention that Zomg poorly asserted that Ghosting "pre-emptively" posted games. If Zomg was setting Ghosting up with softball responses, Ghosting would have jumped all over that.
• In 283, Zomg asks Hunt who Smoke is; slight +town to Omega, as I think if he were a scumbuddy, Zomg would have been more aware of him.
• Rhand is the first to call Zomg out on his bad T/S list, and Rhand isn't pulling punches. +town
• Zomg's response to Rhand feels placating. More +town to Rhand.
• In 295, DV one-line attacks Zomg. This is where DV says he started the push on Zomg, but it's hardly a push, and then he disappears for literally two days while Rod and I build the case on Zomg, then joins back in with a naked vote when Zomg's speedwagon appears.
• In 302, Ghosting responds to Zomg's T/S list and uses a lot of words to basically say what Rhand said, then calls Zomg "certainly not a townread", which I didn't like...
• ...but in 315, Zomg responds to me and Ghosting, but pushes Ghosting even when answering my questions, which made me feel better about Ghosting.
• 315 is also the post where Zomg says "Wow the mood of this game changed fast", which implies to me that he's feeling pressure/going on the defensive. Everything after this I treated with an additional layer of wifom.
• 335 Zomg defends Ophid with the Noob card and sounds like he's giving advice to Ophid. Before 315, I would have seen this as a slight -town for Ophid, but with Zomg on the defensive, it may be +town (or just null).
• 345 Omega responds to Zomg's "who's Smoke" with :coolface:, but doesn't weigh in on Zomg at all. He does lightly question Ghosting's attack on Zomg.
• 349 Zomg answers Rod's question to Vaimes. I originally thought that this was more indicative of Vaimes being town, but maybe not.
• 351 Rod calls Zomg out on answering for Vaimes.
• 352-353: This is an odd two-part post on Vaimes' part. 352 feels very natural and towny, but then all of a sudden in 353 he feels the need to announce that it's going to be difficult to reach a lynch D1 because of lurkers, and then randomly indicates that he's going to pressure Hunt? This may be a bit tinfoily, but coming at the top of page 8, I almost wonder if he posted 352 before he saw that Rod had called out Zomg in 351, saw Rod's post, and felt compelled to distract from it.
@Vaimes: Can you explain your mindset behind making 353?
• 355 is Rod's vote on Zomg to start the wagon. 356 is my post with a pbpa of Zomg, 357 is Rhand's jump on the wagon (nearly naked, but Rhand's done good things otherwise), 358 is DV's jump on the wagon (naked, and he hasn't done good things otherwise). 359 is my jump on the wagon.
• 368 Zomg pops back in with "I'll answer questions later, and oh yeah, Vote DV!"
@All: In your experience, when scum first realize they're under serious scrutiny, do they divert onto town or onto a scumbuddy?
I ask because it seems like before this point, Zomg wasn't looking at DV. I even gave DV slight town points because Zomg seemed to be pocketing him in his T/S list, and then Zomg slightly smeared DV in 296. But he's really on the defensive now, and DV is who he chooses to divert to.
• 370-371: I can't tell if DV's 4-player scumteam mention followed by 1/3 correction is a slip or not.
• 377 Vaimes agrees with the Zomg wagon, but pushes toward Rhand.
• In 385 Vaimes does a good job of killing the bad modgaming, then 386 feels strange, as he highlights that he's trying to change the conversation. Then 387 feels really strange, as he says "What are even my reads" and then townclears himself, Ophid, and Rod, and says everyone else is "vaguely lynchable".
@Vaimes: What happened to Zomg? What happened to Rhand? (You know, as you intimated 10 posts earlier?)
• 422 Vaimes deflects my questions and declares VLA, then in 433 he says "almost forgot" and votes Zomg, then says if Zomg flips scum, we can probably leave DV alone. If Vaimes flips scum, I feel it likely that DV is scum, too. I also don't like that "almost forgot" + vote, because Vaimes hadn't been discussing Zomg or anything, he had been interacting with me and Scarbo (411) and randomly wondering if Kitty was going to post and asking who else hadn't posted. It feels like he wanted to get in on the wagon before he went VLA in case Zomg got lynched while Vaimes was on vacay.
• 425 is Vaimes goodquestioning Zomg, but Zomg is already on the ropes, so less of a +town than if he had started questioning Zomg prior.
• 426 Zomg says "Dv/Buddy/Buddy/Buddy combinations". Is this a slip indicating a 4-person scumteam, or is he already in static mode?
• 427-428 Zomg and Vaimes go back and forth. Vaimes continues to ask pointed questions.
• 443 DV says Zomg is scum fixating on a neutral, but not really pushing the wagon/case.
• 444 Zomg's response to DV is odd. It sounds like he's saying "I already explained why I'm fixating on a neutral; get off my back!" It's more annoyed than defensive.
• 452 Shadow's vote on Zomg sounds, as Anak pointed out, nervous and indecisive. His explanation to Anak in 489 could be legit, but I still don't like 452.
• 453 Zomg asks Shadow to unvote (to prevent the quicklynch, hah), but it's Vaimes in 454 who quickly unvotes.
• 459 Ghosting pressures Zomg. +town
• 460 DV counter-name-claims Zomg. I agree that Zomg was already on the ropes, so it feels odd for town!DV to gambit like this. I feel like DV wanted to get Zomg lynched without Zomg having a chance to claim. If DV flips scum, we should go back and examine the interactions here for why Zomg's posts were making DV nervous.
• 461 Zomg doesn't instavote DV in response...but I realized that Zomg "voted" DV waaaaaaaay back in 368. I say "voted" because Zomg typoed and the vote didn't bold. Brinatoo correctly didn't indicate it in the votecount in 431, but Zomg never questioned it or asked Brin to fix it. I don't think his DV vote was serious, even to the point that he had sorta forgotten about it himself by the time DV counter-name-claimed.
• 468 Zomg really pushes the "when I flip Angela, what then, eh? Eh?!" angle. Feels really odd, given that we would ALREADY be questioning DV for it. Why is Zomg focusing so much attention on DV?
@DV: Explain in detail why you awarded town points to Rod in 483, please?
Around this time the wifom really starts to pile up, and while there are lots of interactions, I started getting burnt out realizing that Zomg was obviously scum at this point but we continued the Day for another 200 posts. I only made it to 550 or so before I ran out of Night, but still:
• Rhand, Rod, Shadow, Vaimes, and Ghosting all ask good questions/poke holes in Zomg's claim multiple times.
• Vaimes' 506-507 stood out, as although Vaimes has pointed out MULTIPLE issues with Zomg, it's not until 506 that he finally sounds "convinced" that Zomg should be lynched. And then 507 he floats the idea of ending the day. Again, an odd one-two set of posts that felt off to me.
Also, I want Scarbo to actually play today. I remember him having good insights in previous games I've played with him, and I want to hear his opinion. Fleshed out, with, you know, content.
Like even with me
COUNTER NAME CLAIMING ZOMG. And his implosion of doom.
Ya'll still took about 3000 hours to many to lynch him.
Thats why i think you are scum. You had no reason to do that. He was going down. You may think it was "for the lulz" but in all honesty it was a ***** move as town.
Also, lynch all liars. That is a thing i have learned whilst playing mafia. I can't see you as town simple because of all the ***** you caused for no reason.
Jailer would have killed you the instant you said you claimed tracer for the lulz, the fact there is no NK is too convienient, no way there is a doc and a jailer, which means the scum would have to try and kill you, which makes no ****in sense.
Hell, if i were scum, i'd have killed ophi or kittyslot (because iso) but no, they go for d_v? I call bull*****.
Zomg ****ed up by garciaing a question meant for his scum buddy. Dv cc's tracer and then pushes for the vig to shoot me.
He literally kept calling me scum eod saying i needed to die. Why would you do that as town?
He wanted town dead. Zomg goes down. (No nk ability?)
Why would town!d_v push for a town!rod nightvig?
You even kept calling me scum.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Rhand, originally I believed Rod to be the town of the two. The "these two should be the wagons" was because I thought there was a dichotomy there. Because if the name CC. I no longer think this.
Iso: because zomg brought it up and I thought it was a weird thing to lie about. I have also played games with scum who have outed multiball setups as multiball. To any and all "Vaimes is echoing dead scum" complaints: I do not care.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Rod: I know your paranoia is high, but take a deep breath and step back from the entrance of the DV tunnel. He may be scum, but you're not going to convince anyone by sounding like a broken record.
That said, DV's 703 is really naive. He says he got jailed, but not killed (does jailer usually come with a kill? I thought it was normally more doctor + roleblocker with chat sometimes thrown in). Then he says the lack of NK is because there's a doctor or roleblocker. I can see his mindset if he's town of going "what? I just taped the "kick-me" sign to my own back, so I couldn't have been the nightkill target", but if we already have a jailer, doctor and/or roleblocker seem really unlikely, at least on the town side. I feel like it's more likely that we didn't lose anyone over the evening because DV was supposed to be the one who made the kill and he got blocked by the jailer.
I don't understand 704-705-706. @DV and Vaimes: Can you explain those to me? And then remind me to come back to 708.
710: Ooh, I like Meteor. Go team Textwall! And you're bringing relevant meta and asking good questions and other cool stuff. Who are the other people in this game who played in the games you mention in your meta-read? I had to go back and look at what you meant by Silver. Doh, I meant Shadow there.
@DV: When you say in 715 "Then again when I told the jailer they said that was exactly what they thought", can you clarify? What was exactly what they thought? Also, in 723, are you actually implying that scum might have thought they could get a lynch on Rod toDay? I find that ludicrous; Rod's the towniest player in the game.
744: DV's still trying to claim credit for Zomg's lynch. Same in 782. DV, explain to me in detail how your neutral claim caught Zomg.
@All: I want a show of hands: Who feels like DV pushed Zomg's wagon in any serious way? Who feels like Zomg would have gotten lynched without DV's counter-name-claim? (My response to these questions is "I don't, and I do, respectively.")
@Meteor: What do you think DV is lying about regarding not being killed?
@Iso: Are you saying in 771 that you didn't know that Kitty hadn't participated at all? Weren't you mentoring her? I'm guessing she didn't initiate any conversation with you; didn't you wonder why? Also, summarize your point regarding your entrance in Deus Ex and Mind Screw. You can wait until Vaimes responds, if you like.
@Ophid: What is "DNE" (776)? I also feel like you're fishing a bit on the jailer in this post.
784 - DV, how does this being a normal contribute to you trusting the jailer?
I've gotten weird vibes from Ghosting's few posts that I've read.
@Cantrip: Why do you think Ghosting pressuing zomg at the end of his lifecycle is townie?
Because his thoughts on Zomg's "wait a day" request mirrored my own (maybe he was just echoing me, but timestamps are pretty close, so I doubt it). And he sounds like he's trying to figure things out.
Vaimes, going to take this in a slightly different direction -- where do you want us to go from here? In your mind, what are our next ideal moves to make in order to catch scum? Who should we lynch today, and if they flip scum, tomorrow? Are there any specific posts or things people have said that stand out to you as convincing reasons for a wagon?
After you answer that -- do you have any doubts?
Quote from Cantripmancer »
@All: In your experience, when scum first realize they're under serious scrutiny, do they divert onto town or onto a scumbuddy?
I guess it depends on what's going on in the game. If there's a town wagon, diverting to that if it's not the player accusing you is an easy way to draw attention away, but also a pretty obvious route to take. If there was a second popular wagon, I imagine scum would probably go for that first. Diverting to a scumbuddy I don't think would happen much at first unless there's good reason, or the player is risky. I personally love playing scum or neutral and just doing out of ordinary things, and I'm sure other people feel the same way, but I think generally diverting to a less risky target is the most common initial play.
I'm going to read some interactions now with Zomg and D_V/Vaimes now, so I'll post more soon.
Oh, that reminds me. @Vaimes: You said you'd explain your "You mean your play that's gonna get you PoE lynched on Day 3" comment toDay. Please add that to your list of responses.
Decided to start with an ISO of Zomg to see if anything interesting pops up, obviously excluding posts that have no relevance to anything. Oh also, I have to use dates because the ISO isn’t showing post numbers for some reason, sorry guys. :/
December 23: Defends Rodemy, asking why people are giving him/her a hard time. Says current wagons are pathetic.
December 26: This is his big initial reads list, so should be interesting.
-Calls Ophidia town, but notes that he could be scum. I remember him doing this a lot, may actually have said that already earlier but obviously there’s no point addressing how it’s scummy now that he’s lynched and proven scum lol.
-Anyway, he then says Vaimes is town, and lists multiple reasons for the town read. Interestingly, he doesn’t say that Vaimes might be scum at all like he did with many other players.
-Also calls D_V town in the same manner as Vaimes, but the reasoning is even better so I’ll quote it: “D_V- Also hasn’t posted much, but as I reread I would start thinking something and he would say it, like his #113, literally 2 minutes ago I was thinking atog could be scummy because of his early posts then bam I read it.” Knowing he’s scum, it was pretty funny to read that he’s townreading him for thinking the same thoughts as scum.
-Calls Cantrip town, says it’s unlikely he’s scum unless the scum is wolfing (not sure what he means by this, always thought wolfing just meant playing like a wolf/scum).
-Reads Shadow as null, but the reasons he give seem better than some of his townreads lol. This makes me more confident in Shadow I think?
-Null Scarbo read because Scarbo’s posted no content, so that’s not really telling. Same for Kitty.
-Null on red_Omega. Speaking of r_0, I definitely want to hear more from him. I feel like we haven’t had a lot of content from him, and I remember scumreading him earlier, and then not hearing much more from him towards the latter half of the day. It was holidays so I’m sure that’s why, but I would still like to hear more nonetheless.
-Scum reads Atog for being opportunistic.
-Scumreads Rhand when it comes across way more as neutral or town. I don’t see how his reason for Rhand makes Rhand scum, but his reason for Ophidia makes Ophidia town? They seem pretty much the same.
December 27: D_V calls Zomg scum for townreading him, and Zomg replies by giving more reasons he thinks D_V is town. This is an interaction reaction and one I’m curious what other people think about.
January 3: Zomg seems pretty mad that his vote on D_V was called eager. I’m starting to think that this gambit was done intentionally so that Zomg could have D_V lynched, D_V flips scum, Zomg gets massive town credit? I’ll need to think more about it, but like there’s two paragraphs of him being pretty defensive over it, which makes it seem reaaaally weird.
January 4: Asks Shadow to unvote. I know this seems trivial, but it actually makes me think Shadow is more likely to be town. Bear with me, but do you really think scum would ask their scum buddy specifically to unvote, if that was the person who put them at L-2? Maybe it means nothing, but it did instantly make me think that.
Honestly after that point it’s just scum flailing and nothing useful comes, but from that I really just gathered that Shadow is probably town, and I feel more strongly that at least one of D_V/Vaimes is scum.
Anyone else have thoughts?
I’m going to look at D_V next, and then Vaimes, but I’m curious on everyone’s input in the mean time.
@Rod: I know your paranoia is high, but take a deep breath and step back from the entrance of the DV tunnel. He may be scum, but you're not going to convince anyone by sounding like a broken record.
That said, DV's 703 is really naive. He says he got jailed, but not killed (does jailer usually come with a kill? I thought it was normally more doctor + roleblocker with chat sometimes thrown in). Then he says the lack of NK is because there's a doctor or roleblocker. I can see his mindset if he's town of going "what? I just taped the "kick-me" sign to my own back, so I couldn't have been the nightkill target", but if we already have a jailer, doctor and/or roleblocker seem really unlikely, at least on the town side. I feel like it's more likely that we didn't lose anyone over the evening because DV was supposed to be the one who made the kill and he got blocked by the jailer.
I agree its the most likely, but lets try to think of other possibilities.
What do you think those other possibilities might be, even if they are less likely?
710: Ooh, I like Meteor. Go team Textwall! And you're bringing relevant meta and asking good questions and other cool stuff. Who are the other people in this game who played in the games you mention in your meta-read? I had to go back and look at what you meant by Silver. Doh, I meant Shadow there.
Wow Thanks! Yeah, Make sense you talked about him. Regarding past history with players:
1. Cops - played with town!Shadow, town!ZOMG, town!Ophidia and scum!DV. scum!Anak
2. Bare Bones - played with town!Vaimes, town!ZOMG, and scum!Rodemy, scum!Shadow
I only played those two games before so no other history, sorry if I forgot anyone.
@All: I want a show of hands: Who feels like DV pushed Zomg's wagon in any serious way? Who feels like Zomg would have gotten lynched without DV's counter-name-claim? (My response to these questions is "I don't, and I do, respectively.")
Same - I don't, and I do.
I read back - he never had any real justification for the ZOMG push and other players didn't seem to take it seriously.
Then he came back after a while and just voted without any reason, which was lame.
@Meteor: What do you think DV is lying about regarding not being killed?
I am not sure. I feel there are some lies there, but I'm not sure if they come from town!D_V or scum!D_V.
Continuing from the previous point of meta I will say that in Cops (although he had a weird gambit there too) he acted differently. His answers were really short and he wouldn't really engage with other players, so that makes me wonder if he really is town here.
The answers from him in post #784, he answered them seriously and way better than he attempted to did when I asked him stuff in the Cops game.
Maybe there really are both Jailor and Doctor this game, and D_V is a town player who wasn't the NK? I am not experienced enough to know if it can happen, if you guys say its not possible then I trust you and lets lynch D_V. Is it wrong though that I kinda also want him to stay in the game more for entertainment value? Lol.
Broken record or not i'm not letting up until another flip.
And i want that flip to be d_v.
I am okay with a vaimes wagon, only because of his quick flip in d_v.
I find it super weird that this d_v lynch is being so difficult.
I'm gonna take a day and catch up tomorrow. I tried re reading eod yesterday and all i saw was dv trying to get me killed. If he knew i was town, why put so much effort into that?
I just can't change my mind on it. Hes lied. What if zomg was town? His lying would lead straight to his lynch. That's not a gambit you take. He had to know zomg was scum.
Ugh.
I'm repeating myself because of the constant shrug offs and disregard.
Call me chaotic good or whatever, but liars need to be lynched.
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Before I catch up, Rod, I want to say that I do not think you are stupid.
I think you are incredibly stubborn and unwilling to listen to reasons put forth by your scumreads, which means it's only going to be incredibly frustrating for me to interact with you re: my own alignment.
Same with Iso, except I believe he's scum, so it's a little less annoying. His needling is more necessary since he needs mislynches to win.
Just wanted to nip potentially hurt feelings in the bud.
@DV: At what point did your jailer tell you that he could kill you?
@Meteor: in regards to DV's lying in Cops, I mentioned that his counterclaim here was different than Cops in post# 492, basically he slow rolled it in Cops for a couple of posts and snap countered here. I drew the wrong conclusion (I would have sworn that Zomg was lying), but regardless, it worked.
@Rhand: Are you asking for the jailer to openly claim? That seems like a really bad idea, as we've already outed one power role.
My advice, if you think you know who the jailer is, keep that to yourself.
@Rodemy: Talk to me about Lynch All Liars. Yes, it's a thing, but what does it mean to you? Do you not see how lies can be instrumental in helping town?
@Ghosting: A couple of times you hi-light that DV was Jailed and there was no NK, why is a strike against him, he clearly knew he was being jailed, yet you think he was going to try to perform the night kill anyway?
Something I fail to understand with everyone doubting DV was jailed: why would he claim that as scum?
He could claim BP. He could claim Commuter. Instead, he picked a claim that relies on someone else backing him up. He's guaranteed to die if he gets run up and no one claims to defend him (though they probably shouldn't, since outing a strong protective role that early is eh) or if other protective roles flip down the line.
Plus, what scum claims they were jailed but they don't think that's the reason the NK was stopped? He would literally be shooting himself in the foot there.
On top of all the other nonsense he's been doing that's getting him borderline policy scumread, I really, really don't think he's mafia. He could have stuck with his Neutral claim, gotten zomg lynched for fixating on a Neutral, and been left alone for several Days.
Further, he 180'd his read on me after people started FOS'ing us as scum together. Another shot in the foot if he's scum.
I think he is town.
Does anyone disagree with this? Please do not counter with wine.
Rod, I am going to ignore you for a bit. Feel free to pursue my lynch.
Anak, I already had the kittyslot in my lynch pool. Iso's entrance pinged me as scummy. I have explained why. Where is the overreaction?
Ghosting, you think scum!DV was exactly the one to have made the kill after drawing so much attention to himself?
It boils down to WIFOM, but it's not like he isn't experienced enough to make such a play. His play was not beneficial to town, he made it harder for PRs to figure the game out, scum already knows who's town so they get a narrow pool as is, and it's not like pulling a gambit to get a player you think is scum lynched is something I can ever genuinely agree with -- unless he's scum, he just did a bunch of bs that made the game confusing, made it easier for scum to hide, and ultimately, could've killed a town player.
Ghosting, like it or not, town players have done this, are doing this now, and will continue doing this in the future.
I am reading this as "scumreading him because he's bad."
I've seen worse plays from town, so I disagree.
I mean, if you generalize any scum read as "because he's bad", you can cover a lot of ground. For example...
Someone flails -- Oh, they're just bad.
Someone jumps vote around opportunistically -- Oh, they're just bad.
Someone intentionally makes it harder for town to solve the game -- Oh, they're just bad.
I could go on, but obviously you get the point. He's just bad is hardly an excuse for behavior that is scummy -- as well as a lack of an NK after being jailed.
Well, yeah, if you take everything out of context.
You're arguing that DV did all that attention-grabbing stuff as scum, but also didn't have a care in the world about potential Trackers targeting him and decided to make the group kill? Usually the most UTR scum is elected.
---
>Iso arguing that me hyperposting is scum indicative
:/
I'd scumread you for this alone if I weren't already.
I feel no pressure, because I firmly believe that I will be able to get everyone to see that I am town by laying out exactly what I'm thinking and move the focus back to people who are actually scum.
Also, I really don't think Mind Screw is a good example for meta. I'll take a look at DEM later.
---
Reminder to myself to answer Rhand and check why I had zomg/shadow as unaligned, too many tabs open.
---
@Cantrip
Re: 353, annoyed at how slow the game was, and felt like baiting Hunt to get a better read on him.
I don't really have a concrete answer for this question. I don't keep good track of my reads in long games, especially when they move so slowly and I lose interest a bit. I will say that I'm not as interested in pursuing Rhand toDay.
Re: 706, there isn't a lot to say. I point out my issue with DV's scumread on me, as well as reaffirming my read/conclusion on DV based on a previous larger post.
Oh, that reminds me. @Vaimes: You said you'd explain your "You mean your play that's gonna get you PoE lynched on Day 3" comment toDay. Please add that to your list of responses.
Now that I'm caught up:
Vote Vaimes
Combination of DV's Neutral claim + lazy play = I'd want him dead by Day 3 if we hadn't lynched scum. Because coasting Neutrals are awful.
Vaimes, going to take this in a slightly different direction -- where do you want us to go from here? In your mind, what are our next ideal moves to make in order to catch scum? Who should we lynch today, and if they flip scum, tomorrow? Are there any specific posts or things people have said that stand out to you as convincing reasons for a wagon?
All of these questions are literally answered in my opening posts.
I asked the Jailer told me that they have a one shot kill.
Any chance they used that as a fear tactic? I've not ever played with a jailer, but I'd never heard of one having the ability to kill until I read that link you posted.
______________________________
Vaimes stance on DV makes me think he's town, and I think it would be in everyone's best interest to look elsewhere besides DV/Vaimes today.
You're high as *****. The night literally went to the moment it could.
Brevity of the night?
Are you 4 real?
How do my claims confuse the PR?
How.
They were name claims.
Ha. Haha. Did you just happen to foeget you claimed nuetral?
Thats not a name claim.
But the multiple claims part is what he said.
Please read what is being said. I don't 100% disagree with that point but that wasn't what he said.
You are tunneling pretty hard and need to snap out of it.
Why did you vote Vaimes?
2 Questions:
1. Are you saying you and the jailor knew you are preventing a kill through the jail? If so, how?
2. If the answer to the first question is No, then the jailor purpose of targeting you was to kill you. Am I correct?
Why do you trust the jailor?
Did you get a comfirmation from the mod that they are town?
Why did you switch to Iso?
Because I think he is scummy, even though my jail buddy had him at null at the end. I'm still not 100% but the way vaimes is aproaching the day is not scummy to me.
I don't get question one.
To explain more if someone is targeted in a jail it typically fizzles.
Or if your question is about me. I just don't see why the scum would ever kill Rodemy or I, it is too much WIFOM. And they know we both are not mafia so they won't kill us.
Umm to answer number 2 possibly? It can also be used as a talking device, which I believe my jailer used it for. I didn't actually ask them why.
A) This is a normal.
B) Why would he leave me alive.
C) No I wasn't told but look at A and B.
D) We did a lot of Town Scum lists during the day and his was very well thought out. More so than mine was even. Just all around town.
Because I believe him to be scum.
Thanks!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Oh ***** that's right.
Yo Iso go read the game mang or go read from like post 400 or so.
You: I’m starting to doubt. I’m getting the feeling you really think I’m scum.
Hunt: I still think he’s not town. He isn’t posting enough and isn’t inquisitive.
D_V: He lied a few times too much. I think I know who the jailer is and I would like him to explain why he chose not to kill D_V. I’m not sure what to think. More on him later.
Red: I explained why I thought he was scum early on. Anak hasn’t done anything to change that read.
Scarbo: I prefer not to explain this read.
Atog: lurking is his scum meta. But it turns out he wasn’t lurking but simply disappeared, which is null. No read here.
@Iso: Would zomg be this bold if DV was his buddy? If Vaimes / D_V are scum with zomg, then the scumteam did a whole lot of distancing yesterDay. Vaimes vs D_V and zomg vs D_V.
I really need you to explain that D_V / Vaimes read. I have a hard time seeing Vaimes as scum.
This is an easy jab at a player under pressure.
@Vaimes: if it would’ve been multiball, what makes you think zomg had a correct read on D_V?
In your analysis post, you say Shadow is an unlikely partner to zomg. Why?
What makes you think D_V isn’t doing this exact same stuff as town?
Why Rod?
Ehm and how did you go from D_V and Rod to this?
Gah I write this whole thing to then realize Iso is probably right. That whole conversation toDay feels completely unnatural. D_V / Vaimes and I think if we have a 4th it’s Anak for trying out if a Ghosting wagon is a possibility.
Especially this post where he tries to get Rodemy on Ghosting without voting Ghosting himself:
I think the scumteam did go for the heavy bussing strat, especially when zomg reached the point of no return.
Only Hunt remains a mystery.
vote D_V
So I went for the heavy bussing Strat?
Me.
The person that started the downfall of Zomg?
Also at this point I'm claiming a PR. That's part of why I wasn't killed.
His only comment is that I lied "too many times".
Ya'll need to not make that a scum tell. What do I DV scum have to gain from my rando tracer call out claim?
It means that you think that I
A) Counter name claimed my scum partner
B) Lead to his lynch to blend in to the town
C) I then out myself again? For what end?
D) I make myself a target instead of just blending in again.
E) ???????
F) ???????
In short anyone voting for me is questionable.
COUNTER NAME CLAIMING ZOMG. And his implosion of doom.
Ya'll still took about 3000 hours to many to lynch him.
Yeh that's the main point against you.
You know... you could engage me instead of telling everyone else to see the logic that is in my brain.
Also, you're ignoring the last part of my post.
This post is nonsense:
You say that you think the doctor or roleblocker stopped the kill, while you were jailed.
The DOCTOR or ROLEBLOCKER while you know there’s a JAILOR?
You know that saying that you were the NK makes no sense, so without thinking you throw out some roles that can’t co-exist with a jailor.
Then you go on Vaimes, but as soon as Iso calls you AND VAIMES scum, you switch to Iso.
The guy called your biggest scumspect scum. He even voted Vaimes with you.
Seems to me that you saw a good shot at unvoting your buddy and voting someone else instead.
The weirdest of it all is that now you’re voting WITH VAIMES.
The town reaction would've been to convince Iso that you're not scum but that Vaimes is.
Which makes me think Iso is right about the 2 of you.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I did some rereading during the Night focusing on Zomg's interactions, and while I didn't get all the way through, I did find some items of interest:
First off, to save time and space, there are so many of Rod's posts in my notes with "+town" next to them, it's ridiculous.
Vaimes
• Zomg's first post is 144, in which he responds to Rhand asking if Scarbo or myself even know the game started. Zomg explains why he's been a little absent (logical), then explains why Kitty's been absent (logical, she's his sister), then explains why Vaimes has been absent. Then goes "yada yada yada". Maybe null, as maybe (as he states) he knows that Vaimes is generally absent on weekends, but it struck an odd note for me.
• In 257, Zomg casts shade on every single town read...except Vaimes.
• 349 Zomg answers Rod's question to Vaimes. I originally thought that this was more indicative of Vaimes being town, but maybe not.
• 352-353: This is an odd two-part post on Vaimes' part. 352 feels very natural and towny, but then all of a sudden in 353 he feels the need to announce that it's going to be difficult to reach a lynch D1 because of lurkers, and then randomly indicates that he's going to pressure Hunt? This may be a bit tinfoily, but coming at the top of page 8, I almost wonder if he posted 352 before he saw that Rod had called out Zomg in 351, saw Rod's post, and felt compelled to distract from it.
@Vaimes: Can you explain your mindset behind making 353?
• 377 Vaimes agrees with the Zomg wagon, but pushes toward Rhand.
• In 385 Vaimes does a good job of killing the bad modgaming, then 386 feels strange, as he highlights that he's trying to change the conversation. Then 387 feels really strange, as he says "What are even my reads" and then townclears himself, Ophid, and Rod, and says everyone else is "vaguely lynchable".
@Vaimes: What happened to Zomg? What happened to Rhand? (You know, as you intimated just 10 posts earlier?)
• 422 Vaimes deflects my questions and declares VLA, then in 433 he says "almost forgot" and votes Zomg, then says if Zomg flips scum, we can probably leave DV alone. If Vaimes flips scum, I feel it likely that DV is scum, too. I also don't like that "almost forgot" + vote, because Vaimes hadn't been discussing Zomg or anything, he had been interacting with me and Scarbo (411) and randomly wondering if Kitty was going to post and asking who else hadn't posted. It feels like he wanted to get in on the wagon before he went VLA in case Zomg got lynched while Vaimes was on vacay.
• 425 is Vaimes goodquestioning Zomg, but Zomg is already on the ropes, so less of a +town than if he had started questioning Zomg prior.
• 427-428 Zomg and Vaimes go back and forth. Vaimes continues to ask pointed questions.
• 453 Zomg asks Shadow to unvote (to prevent the quicklynch, hah), but it's Vaimes in 454 who quickly unvotes.
• Vaimes' 506-507 stood out, as although Vaimes has pointed out MULTIPLE issues with Zomg, it's not until 506 that he finally sounds "convinced" that Zomg should be lynched. And then 507 he floats the idea of ending the day. Again, an odd one-two set of posts that felt off to me.
DV
• In 295, DV one-line attacks Zomg. This is where DV says he started the push on Zomg, but it's hardly a push, and then he disappears for literally two days while Rod and I build the case on Zomg, then joins back in with a naked vote when Zomg's speedwagon appears.
• 358 is DV's jump on the Zomg wagon (naked).
• 368 Zomg pops back in with "I'll answer questions later, and oh yeah, Vote DV!"
@All: In your experience, when scum first realize they're under serious scrutiny, do they divert onto town or onto a scumbuddy?
I ask because it seems like before this point, Zomg wasn't looking at DV. I even gave DV slight town points because Zomg seemed to be pocketing him in his T/S list, and then Zomg slightly smeared DV in 296. But he's really on the defensive now, and DV is who he chooses to divert to.
• 370-371: I can't tell if DV's 4-player scumteam mention followed by 1/3 correction is a slip or not.
• 443 DV says Zomg is scum fixating on a neutral, but not really pushing the wagon/case.
• 444 Zomg's response to DV is odd. It sounds like he's saying "I already explained why I'm fixating on a neutral; get off my back!" It's more annoyed than defensive.
• 460 DV counter-name-claims Zomg. I agree that Zomg was already on the ropes, so it feels odd for town!DV to gambit like this. I feel like DV wanted to get Zomg lynched without Zomg having a chance to claim. If DV flips scum, we should go back and examine the interactions here for why Zomg's posts were making DV nervous.
• 461 Zomg doesn't instavote DV in response...but I realized that Zomg "voted" DV waaaaaaaay back in 368. I say "voted" because Zomg typoed and the vote didn't bold. Brinatoo correctly didn't indicate it in the votecount in 431, but Zomg never questioned it or asked Brin to fix it. I don't think his DV vote was serious, even to the point that he had sorta forgotten about it himself by the time DV counter-name-claimed.
• 468 Zomg really pushes the "when I flip Angela, what then, eh? Eh?!" angle. Feels really odd, given that we would ALREADY be questioning DV for it. Why is Zomg focusing so much attention on DV?
@DV: Explain in detail why you awarded town points to Rod in 483, please?
Other
• 257 is Zomg's T/S House of Waffles. I think there's likely some gems hidden in here if we can decipher them, as no suspicion had really been leveled at Zomg by this point. Of note:
- I gave +town points to Omega for Zomg listing him at the bottom of the null reads...even below the two players who had only posted once at that point (Scarbo and Kitty).
- I also gave +town points to Rhand for "bottoming" Zomg's scumlist. Zomg implied a tie between Rhand and Atog-Meteor, so there's a chance that one of them is scum, but that's tenuous.
- Zomg sounds nervous when he gives his Ghosting read. At first I thought he was giving Ghosting "easy" things to argue/counter, but Ghosting was already under suspicion at that point, so I think this was Zomg trying to justify joining that wagon/furthering it. This town!Ghosting feeling is reinforced for me in 258, when Ghosting responds, but doesn't even mention that Zomg poorly asserted that Ghosting "pre-emptively" posted games. If Zomg was setting Ghosting up with softball responses, I think Ghosting would have jumped all over that.
• In 283, Zomg asks Hunt who Smoke is; slight +town to Omega, as I think if he were a scumbuddy, Zomg would have been more aware of him.
• Rhand is the first to call Zomg out on his bad T/S list, and Rhand isn't pulling punches. +town
• Zomg's response to Rhand feels placating. More +town to Rhand.
• In 302, Ghosting responds to Zomg's T/S list and uses a lot of words to basically say what Rhand said, then calls Zomg "certainly not a townread", which I didn't like...
• ...but in 315, Zomg responds to me and Ghosting, but pushes Ghosting even when answering my questions, which made me feel better about Ghosting.
• 315 is also the post where Zomg says "Wow the mood of this game changed fast", which implies to me that he's feeling pressure/going on the defensive. Everything after this I treated with an additional layer of wifom.
• 335 Zomg defends Ophid with the Noob card and sounds like he's giving advice to Ophid. Before 315, I would have seen this as a slight -town for Ophid, but with Zomg on the defensive, it may be +town (or just null).
• 345 Omega responds to Zomg's "who's Smoke" with :coolface:, but doesn't weigh in on Zomg at all. He does lightly question Ghosting's attack on Zomg.
• 351 Rod calls Zomg out on answering for Vaimes.
• 355 is Rod's vote on Zomg to start the wagon. 356 is my post with a pbpa of Zomg, 357 is Rhand's jump on the wagon (nearly naked, but Rhand's done good things otherwise), 358 is DV's jump on the wagon (naked, and he hasn't done good things otherwise). 359 is my jump on the wagon.
• 426 Zomg says "Dv/Buddy/Buddy/Buddy combinations". Is this a slip indicating a 4-person scumteam, or is he already in static mode?
• 452 Shadow's vote on Zomg sounds, as Anak pointed out, nervous and indecisive. His explanation to Anak in 489 could be legit, but I still don't like 452.
• 459 Ghosting pressures Zomg. +town
Around this time the wifom really starts to pile up, and while there are lots of interactions, I started getting burnt out realizing that Zomg was obviously scum at this point but we continued the Day for another 200 posts. I only made it to 550 or so before I ran out of Night, but Rhand, Rod, Shadow, Vaimes, and Ghosting all ask good questions/poke holes in Zomg's claim multiple times.
tl;dr:
• There were a lot of odd interactions between Zomg and Vaimes early on, Vaimes didn't do a whole lot to scrutinize Zomg until after Zomg came under significant fire, and even then his attacks feel reluctant.
• Zomg fixated on DV a lot, and DV's choices have been decidedly odd.
I support pressure on either Vaimes or Zomg. Not voting because while I skimmed the last 100 posts or so, I haven't really had the chance to dig into them, and I'm also not sure where the votes are at. I feel like Vaimes' interactions/choices are more sneaky, so I'm leaning toward voting him, while DV's choices could be a town gambit maybe, and Zomg pushed on DV really really hard. Still can't wrap my head around the Zomg-DV relationship + DV's bizarre zounterclaim behavior.
I originally had these points listed out in chronological order, but it was obnoxious to read and didn't really help make my points re: Vaimes and DV, but in case it helps to see the chronology:
• Zomg's first post is 144, in which he responds to Rhand asking if Scarbo or myself even know the game started. Zomg explains why he's been a little absent (logical), then explains why Kitty's been absent (logical, she's his sister), then explains why Vaimes has been absent. Then goes "yada yada yada". Maybe null, as maybe (as he states) he knows that Vaimes is generally absent on weekends, but it struck an odd note for me.
• 257 is Zomg's T/S House of Waffles. I think there's likely some gems hidden in here if we can decipher them, as no suspicion had really been leveled at Zomg by this point. Of note:
- Zomg casts shade on every single town read...except Vaimes.
- I gave +town points to Omega for Zomg listing him at the bottom of the null reads...even below the two players who had only posted once at that point (Scarbo and Kitty).
- I also gave +town points to Rhand for "bottoming" Zomg's scumlist. Zomg implied a tie between Rhand and Atog-Meteor, so there's a chance that one of them is scum, but that's tenuous.
- Zomg sounds nervous when he gives his Ghosting read. At first I thought he was giving Ghosting "easy" things to argue/counter, but Ghosting was already under suspicion at that point, so I think this was Zomg trying to justify joining that wagon/furthering it. This town!Ghosting feeling is reinforced for me in 258, when Ghosting responds, but doesn't even mention that Zomg poorly asserted that Ghosting "pre-emptively" posted games. If Zomg was setting Ghosting up with softball responses, Ghosting would have jumped all over that.
• In 283, Zomg asks Hunt who Smoke is; slight +town to Omega, as I think if he were a scumbuddy, Zomg would have been more aware of him.
• Rhand is the first to call Zomg out on his bad T/S list, and Rhand isn't pulling punches. +town
• Zomg's response to Rhand feels placating. More +town to Rhand.
• In 295, DV one-line attacks Zomg. This is where DV says he started the push on Zomg, but it's hardly a push, and then he disappears for literally two days while Rod and I build the case on Zomg, then joins back in with a naked vote when Zomg's speedwagon appears.
• In 302, Ghosting responds to Zomg's T/S list and uses a lot of words to basically say what Rhand said, then calls Zomg "certainly not a townread", which I didn't like...
• ...but in 315, Zomg responds to me and Ghosting, but pushes Ghosting even when answering my questions, which made me feel better about Ghosting.
• 315 is also the post where Zomg says "Wow the mood of this game changed fast", which implies to me that he's feeling pressure/going on the defensive. Everything after this I treated with an additional layer of wifom.
• 335 Zomg defends Ophid with the Noob card and sounds like he's giving advice to Ophid. Before 315, I would have seen this as a slight -town for Ophid, but with Zomg on the defensive, it may be +town (or just null).
• 345 Omega responds to Zomg's "who's Smoke" with :coolface:, but doesn't weigh in on Zomg at all. He does lightly question Ghosting's attack on Zomg.
• 349 Zomg answers Rod's question to Vaimes. I originally thought that this was more indicative of Vaimes being town, but maybe not.
• 351 Rod calls Zomg out on answering for Vaimes.
• 352-353: This is an odd two-part post on Vaimes' part. 352 feels very natural and towny, but then all of a sudden in 353 he feels the need to announce that it's going to be difficult to reach a lynch D1 because of lurkers, and then randomly indicates that he's going to pressure Hunt? This may be a bit tinfoily, but coming at the top of page 8, I almost wonder if he posted 352 before he saw that Rod had called out Zomg in 351, saw Rod's post, and felt compelled to distract from it.
@Vaimes: Can you explain your mindset behind making 353?
• 355 is Rod's vote on Zomg to start the wagon. 356 is my post with a pbpa of Zomg, 357 is Rhand's jump on the wagon (nearly naked, but Rhand's done good things otherwise), 358 is DV's jump on the wagon (naked, and he hasn't done good things otherwise). 359 is my jump on the wagon.
• 368 Zomg pops back in with "I'll answer questions later, and oh yeah, Vote DV!"
@All: In your experience, when scum first realize they're under serious scrutiny, do they divert onto town or onto a scumbuddy?
I ask because it seems like before this point, Zomg wasn't looking at DV. I even gave DV slight town points because Zomg seemed to be pocketing him in his T/S list, and then Zomg slightly smeared DV in 296. But he's really on the defensive now, and DV is who he chooses to divert to.
• 370-371: I can't tell if DV's 4-player scumteam mention followed by 1/3 correction is a slip or not.
• 377 Vaimes agrees with the Zomg wagon, but pushes toward Rhand.
• In 385 Vaimes does a good job of killing the bad modgaming, then 386 feels strange, as he highlights that he's trying to change the conversation. Then 387 feels really strange, as he says "What are even my reads" and then townclears himself, Ophid, and Rod, and says everyone else is "vaguely lynchable".
@Vaimes: What happened to Zomg? What happened to Rhand? (You know, as you intimated 10 posts earlier?)
• 422 Vaimes deflects my questions and declares VLA, then in 433 he says "almost forgot" and votes Zomg, then says if Zomg flips scum, we can probably leave DV alone. If Vaimes flips scum, I feel it likely that DV is scum, too. I also don't like that "almost forgot" + vote, because Vaimes hadn't been discussing Zomg or anything, he had been interacting with me and Scarbo (411) and randomly wondering if Kitty was going to post and asking who else hadn't posted. It feels like he wanted to get in on the wagon before he went VLA in case Zomg got lynched while Vaimes was on vacay.
• 425 is Vaimes goodquestioning Zomg, but Zomg is already on the ropes, so less of a +town than if he had started questioning Zomg prior.
• 426 Zomg says "Dv/Buddy/Buddy/Buddy combinations". Is this a slip indicating a 4-person scumteam, or is he already in static mode?
• 427-428 Zomg and Vaimes go back and forth. Vaimes continues to ask pointed questions.
• 443 DV says Zomg is scum fixating on a neutral, but not really pushing the wagon/case.
• 444 Zomg's response to DV is odd. It sounds like he's saying "I already explained why I'm fixating on a neutral; get off my back!" It's more annoyed than defensive.
• 452 Shadow's vote on Zomg sounds, as Anak pointed out, nervous and indecisive. His explanation to Anak in 489 could be legit, but I still don't like 452.
• 453 Zomg asks Shadow to unvote (to prevent the quicklynch, hah), but it's Vaimes in 454 who quickly unvotes.
• 459 Ghosting pressures Zomg. +town
• 460 DV counter-name-claims Zomg. I agree that Zomg was already on the ropes, so it feels odd for town!DV to gambit like this. I feel like DV wanted to get Zomg lynched without Zomg having a chance to claim. If DV flips scum, we should go back and examine the interactions here for why Zomg's posts were making DV nervous.
• 461 Zomg doesn't instavote DV in response...but I realized that Zomg "voted" DV waaaaaaaay back in 368. I say "voted" because Zomg typoed and the vote didn't bold. Brinatoo correctly didn't indicate it in the votecount in 431, but Zomg never questioned it or asked Brin to fix it. I don't think his DV vote was serious, even to the point that he had sorta forgotten about it himself by the time DV counter-name-claimed.
• 468 Zomg really pushes the "when I flip Angela, what then, eh? Eh?!" angle. Feels really odd, given that we would ALREADY be questioning DV for it. Why is Zomg focusing so much attention on DV?
@DV: Explain in detail why you awarded town points to Rod in 483, please?
Around this time the wifom really starts to pile up, and while there are lots of interactions, I started getting burnt out realizing that Zomg was obviously scum at this point but we continued the Day for another 200 posts. I only made it to 550 or so before I ran out of Night, but still:
• Rhand, Rod, Shadow, Vaimes, and Ghosting all ask good questions/poke holes in Zomg's claim multiple times.
• Vaimes' 506-507 stood out, as although Vaimes has pointed out MULTIPLE issues with Zomg, it's not until 506 that he finally sounds "convinced" that Zomg should be lynched. And then 507 he floats the idea of ending the day. Again, an odd one-two set of posts that felt off to me.
Also, I want Scarbo to actually play today. I remember him having good insights in previous games I've played with him, and I want to hear his opinion. Fleshed out, with, you know, content.
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StaffThats why i think you are scum. You had no reason to do that. He was going down. You may think it was "for the lulz" but in all honesty it was a ***** move as town.
Also, lynch all liars. That is a thing i have learned whilst playing mafia. I can't see you as town simple because of all the ***** you caused for no reason.
Jailer would have killed you the instant you said you claimed tracer for the lulz, the fact there is no NK is too convienient, no way there is a doc and a jailer, which means the scum would have to try and kill you, which makes no ****in sense.
Hell, if i were scum, i'd have killed ophi or kittyslot (because iso) but no, they go for d_v? I call bull*****.
Zomg ****ed up by garciaing a question meant for his scum buddy. Dv cc's tracer and then pushes for the vig to shoot me.
He literally kept calling me scum eod saying i needed to die. Why would you do that as town?
He wanted town dead. Zomg goes down. (No nk ability?)
Why would town!d_v push for a town!rod nightvig?
You even kept calling me scum.
@Cantrip: Why do you think Ghosting pressuing zomg at the end of his lifecycle is townie?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Rhand, originally I believed Rod to be the town of the two. The "these two should be the wagons" was because I thought there was a dichotomy there. Because if the name CC. I no longer think this.
Iso: because zomg brought it up and I thought it was a weird thing to lie about. I have also played games with scum who have outed multiball setups as multiball. To any and all "Vaimes is echoing dead scum" complaints: I do not care.
Anything else will have to wait.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That said, DV's 703 is really naive. He says he got jailed, but not killed (does jailer usually come with a kill? I thought it was normally more doctor + roleblocker with chat sometimes thrown in). Then he says the lack of NK is because there's a doctor or roleblocker. I can see his mindset if he's town of going "what? I just taped the "kick-me" sign to my own back, so I couldn't have been the nightkill target", but if we already have a jailer, doctor and/or roleblocker seem really unlikely, at least on the town side. I feel like it's more likely that we didn't lose anyone over the evening because DV was supposed to be the one who made the kill and he got blocked by the jailer.
I don't understand 704-705-706. @DV and Vaimes: Can you explain those to me? And then remind me to come back to 708.
710: Ooh, I like Meteor. Go team Textwall! And you're bringing relevant meta and asking good questions and other cool stuff. Who are the other people in this game who played in the games you mention in your meta-read? I had to go back and look at what you meant by Silver. Doh, I meant Shadow there.
@DV: When you say in 715 "Then again when I told the jailer they said that was exactly what they thought", can you clarify? What was exactly what they thought? Also, in 723, are you actually implying that scum might have thought they could get a lynch on Rod toDay? I find that ludicrous; Rod's the towniest player in the game.
744: DV's still trying to claim credit for Zomg's lynch. Same in 782. DV, explain to me in detail how your neutral claim caught Zomg.
@All: I want a show of hands: Who feels like DV pushed Zomg's wagon in any serious way? Who feels like Zomg would have gotten lynched without DV's counter-name-claim? (My response to these questions is "I don't, and I do, respectively.")
@Meteor: What do you think DV is lying about regarding not being killed?
@Iso: Are you saying in 771 that you didn't know that Kitty hadn't participated at all? Weren't you mentoring her? I'm guessing she didn't initiate any conversation with you; didn't you wonder why? Also, summarize your point regarding your entrance in Deus Ex and Mind Screw. You can wait until Vaimes responds, if you like.
@Ophid: What is "DNE" (776)? I also feel like you're fishing a bit on the jailer in this post.
784 - DV, how does this being a normal contribute to you trusting the jailer?
792: I love the mass OMGUS from DV.
797 made me lol.
Because his thoughts on Zomg's "wait a day" request mirrored my own (maybe he was just echoing me, but timestamps are pretty close, so I doubt it). And he sounds like he's trying to figure things out.
After you answer that -- do you have any doubts?
I guess it depends on what's going on in the game. If there's a town wagon, diverting to that if it's not the player accusing you is an easy way to draw attention away, but also a pretty obvious route to take. If there was a second popular wagon, I imagine scum would probably go for that first. Diverting to a scumbuddy I don't think would happen much at first unless there's good reason, or the player is risky. I personally love playing scum or neutral and just doing out of ordinary things, and I'm sure other people feel the same way, but I think generally diverting to a less risky target is the most common initial play.
I'm going to read some interactions now with Zomg and D_V/Vaimes now, so I'll post more soon.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Doesn't really feel like two mafia members talking to each other. If it was some distancing attempt I would except it too be kinda more.. theatrical.
Cantripmancer - Gonna answer you next post.
Now that I'm caught up:
Vote Vaimes
December 23: Defends Rodemy, asking why people are giving him/her a hard time. Says current wagons are pathetic.
December 26: This is his big initial reads list, so should be interesting.
-Calls Ophidia town, but notes that he could be scum. I remember him doing this a lot, may actually have said that already earlier but obviously there’s no point addressing how it’s scummy now that he’s lynched and proven scum lol.
-Anyway, he then says Vaimes is town, and lists multiple reasons for the town read. Interestingly, he doesn’t say that Vaimes might be scum at all like he did with many other players.
-Also calls D_V town in the same manner as Vaimes, but the reasoning is even better so I’ll quote it: “D_V- Also hasn’t posted much, but as I reread I would start thinking something and he would say it, like his #113, literally 2 minutes ago I was thinking atog could be scummy because of his early posts then bam I read it.” Knowing he’s scum, it was pretty funny to read that he’s townreading him for thinking the same thoughts as scum.
-Calls Cantrip town, says it’s unlikely he’s scum unless the scum is wolfing (not sure what he means by this, always thought wolfing just meant playing like a wolf/scum).
-Reads Shadow as null, but the reasons he give seem better than some of his townreads lol. This makes me more confident in Shadow I think?
-Null Scarbo read because Scarbo’s posted no content, so that’s not really telling. Same for Kitty.
-Null on red_Omega. Speaking of r_0, I definitely want to hear more from him. I feel like we haven’t had a lot of content from him, and I remember scumreading him earlier, and then not hearing much more from him towards the latter half of the day. It was holidays so I’m sure that’s why, but I would still like to hear more nonetheless.
-Scum reads Atog for being opportunistic.
-Scumreads Rhand when it comes across way more as neutral or town. I don’t see how his reason for Rhand makes Rhand scum, but his reason for Ophidia makes Ophidia town? They seem pretty much the same.
December 27: D_V calls Zomg scum for townreading him, and Zomg replies by giving more reasons he thinks D_V is town. This is an interaction reaction and one I’m curious what other people think about.
January 3: Zomg seems pretty mad that his vote on D_V was called eager. I’m starting to think that this gambit was done intentionally so that Zomg could have D_V lynched, D_V flips scum, Zomg gets massive town credit? I’ll need to think more about it, but like there’s two paragraphs of him being pretty defensive over it, which makes it seem reaaaally weird.
January 4: Asks Shadow to unvote. I know this seems trivial, but it actually makes me think Shadow is more likely to be town. Bear with me, but do you really think scum would ask their scum buddy specifically to unvote, if that was the person who put them at L-2? Maybe it means nothing, but it did instantly make me think that.
Honestly after that point it’s just scum flailing and nothing useful comes, but from that I really just gathered that Shadow is probably town, and I feel more strongly that at least one of D_V/Vaimes is scum.
Anyone else have thoughts?
I’m going to look at D_V next, and then Vaimes, but I’m curious on everyone’s input in the mean time.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
In contrast, I actually find the interaction fairly theatrical.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I agree its the most likely, but lets try to think of other possibilities.
What do you think those other possibilities might be, even if they are less likely?
Wow Thanks! Yeah, Make sense you talked about him. Regarding past history with players:
1. Cops - played with town!Shadow, town!ZOMG, town!Ophidia and scum!DV. scum!Anak
2. Bare Bones - played with town!Vaimes, town!ZOMG, and scum!Rodemy, scum!Shadow
I only played those two games before so no other history, sorry if I forgot anyone.
Same - I don't, and I do.
I read back - he never had any real justification for the ZOMG push and other players didn't seem to take it seriously.
Then he came back after a while and just voted without any reason, which was lame.
I am not sure. I feel there are some lies there, but I'm not sure if they come from town!D_V or scum!D_V.
Continuing from the previous point of meta I will say that in Cops (although he had a weird gambit there too) he acted differently. His answers were really short and he wouldn't really engage with other players, so that makes me wonder if he really is town here.
The answers from him in post #784, he answered them seriously and way better than he attempted to did when I asked him stuff in the Cops game.
Maybe there really are both Jailor and Doctor this game, and D_V is a town player who wasn't the NK? I am not experienced enough to know if it can happen, if you guys say its not possible then I trust you and lets lynch D_V. Is it wrong though that I kinda also want him to stay in the game more for entertainment value? Lol.
Then read further in and realized I didn't know how most of them work.
I might have just gotten played. Now I gotta go reread my jailer chat.
For the record I'm used to this jailor
http://town-of-salem.wikia.com/wiki/Jailor
Not
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Jailkeeper
Town:
DV
Rodemy
Ophidia
Town lean:
Shadow
Rhand
Vaimes
Cantrip
Null
Kitty/Iso
Atog/meteor
Scarbo
Hunt
Scum lean:
Ghosting
Anak
Cause this was the list I was provided.
I'm starting to wonder if I got played here.
Seems pretty dangerous IMO cause that's exactly two more scum caught.
Broken record or not i'm not letting up until another flip.
And i want that flip to be d_v.
I am okay with a vaimes wagon, only because of his quick flip in d_v.
I find it super weird that this d_v lynch is being so difficult.
I'm gonna take a day and catch up tomorrow. I tried re reading eod yesterday and all i saw was dv trying to get me killed. If he knew i was town, why put so much effort into that?
I just can't change my mind on it. Hes lied. What if zomg was town? His lying would lead straight to his lynch. That's not a gambit you take. He had to know zomg was scum.
Ugh.
I'm repeating myself because of the constant shrug offs and disregard.
Call me chaotic good or whatever, but liars need to be lynched.
I think you are incredibly stubborn and unwilling to listen to reasons put forth by your scumreads, which means it's only going to be incredibly frustrating for me to interact with you re: my own alignment.
Same with Iso, except I believe he's scum, so it's a little less annoying. His needling is more necessary since he needs mislynches to win.
Just wanted to nip potentially hurt feelings in the bud.
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Staff@Meteor: in regards to DV's lying in Cops, I mentioned that his counterclaim here was different than Cops in post# 492, basically he slow rolled it in Cops for a couple of posts and snap countered here. I drew the wrong conclusion (I would have sworn that Zomg was lying), but regardless, it worked.
@Rhand: Are you asking for the jailer to openly claim? That seems like a really bad idea, as we've already outed one power role.
My advice, if you think you know who the jailer is, keep that to yourself.
@Rodemy: Talk to me about Lynch All Liars. Yes, it's a thing, but what does it mean to you? Do you not see how lies can be instrumental in helping town?
@Ghosting: A couple of times you hi-light that DV was Jailed and there was no NK, why is a strike against him, he clearly knew he was being jailed, yet you think he was going to try to perform the night kill anyway?
He could claim BP. He could claim Commuter. Instead, he picked a claim that relies on someone else backing him up. He's guaranteed to die if he gets run up and no one claims to defend him (though they probably shouldn't, since outing a strong protective role that early is eh) or if other protective roles flip down the line.
Plus, what scum claims they were jailed but they don't think that's the reason the NK was stopped? He would literally be shooting himself in the foot there.
On top of all the other nonsense he's been doing that's getting him borderline policy scumread, I really, really don't think he's mafia. He could have stuck with his Neutral claim, gotten zomg lynched for fixating on a Neutral, and been left alone for several Days.
Further, he 180'd his read on me after people started FOS'ing us as scum together. Another shot in the foot if he's scum.
I think he is town.
Does anyone disagree with this? Please do not counter with wine.
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Ghosting, like it or not, town players have done this, are doing this now, and will continue doing this in the future.
I believe DV did this as town.Well, yeah, if you take everything out of context.
You're arguing that DV did all that attention-grabbing stuff as scum, but also didn't have a care in the world about potential Trackers targeting him and decided to make the group kill? Usually the most UTR scum is elected.
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>Iso arguing that me hyperposting is scum indicative
:/
I'd scumread you for this alone if I weren't already.
I feel no pressure, because I firmly believe that I will be able to get everyone to see that I am town by laying out exactly what I'm thinking and move the focus back to people who are actually scum.
Also, I really don't think Mind Screw is a good example for meta. I'll take a look at DEM later.
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Reminder to myself to answer Rhand and check why I had zomg/shadow as unaligned, too many tabs open.
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@Cantrip
Re: 353, annoyed at how slow the game was, and felt like baiting Hunt to get a better read on him.
I don't really have a concrete answer for this question. I don't keep good track of my reads in long games, especially when they move so slowly and I lose interest a bit. I will say that I'm not as interested in pursuing Rhand toDay.
Re: 706, there isn't a lot to say. I point out my issue with DV's scumread on me, as well as reaffirming my read/conclusion on DV based on a previous larger post.Combination of DV's Neutral claim + lazy play = I'd want him dead by Day 3 if we hadn't lynched scum. Because coasting Neutrals are awful.
That's it.
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I don't know what the differences are between what constitutes "normal" on MS and MTGS, but I am referring to a Normal game.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=64409
The setup was not at all advertised to be multiball.
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All of these questions are literally answered in my opening posts.
In mafia? All the time.
That is a serious answer.
DV could not have made the Night kill if he was Jailed iff the Jailor also had a private QT with him.
I haven't seen many Jailors on this site so I'm not sure what the standard MTGS Jailor is like.
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StaffAny chance they used that as a fear tactic? I've not ever played with a jailer, but I'd never heard of one having the ability to kill until I read that link you posted.
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Vaimes stance on DV makes me think he's town, and I think it would be in everyone's best interest to look elsewhere besides DV/Vaimes today.
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StaffYou wish.