To answer why Anak:
I would expect people to understand this by now, but I would never target the "most townread" person. Aside from the probability of that person being at higher risk of being the night kill, I'd also rather use the neighborhood to help sort my reads out. Anak was my choice for being a little out there.
I don't trust Cantrip. Now Rhand, you were high on my list, but I actually thought you might turn up dead today, and it wasn't worth risking it.
There is no way in hell I'm participating in that Meteor idea. It's bad enough I wonder if you were TRYING to get us mod killed.
Not only am I active in the chat, I posted my day one notes on people as we went. The chat was open to me from the start of the game.
Bark up another tree Rhand.
I pretty much claimed here who was next on my list.
I feel like you have to be trying pretty hard to ignore the fact that there are guaranteed scum within Huntz/Scarbo/Shadow. I'm fairly certain anyone who's town and thinking even a little can come to that conclusion.
you and Scarbo can die. Being the scum team and all. It is unfortunate for Fulcrum to have to replace into that slot.
I dig the way shadow mentioned he was going to hold his vote at reread at first. I doubt he would mention that if he were bussing here.
So if you think Shadow is town, which you clearly do, how do you justify town watcher, town roleblocker, and town jailer (who acts as a roleblock) -- and add town neighborizer to that list if you're townreading Huntz (are you? I can't remember). You don't think it's more likely scum and town have roles that mirror each other? It certainly seems most obvious that rather than town having two roleblocking roles, scum has one, and they have the one that's incredibly common for scum to have (plain roleblocker).
@Ghosting: I'm gonna be frank, I don't think you're a bad player, I think you actually play a pretty solid game, so when you do something like fake claim doc that ends up outing the real protective role, and being the instrumental reason our actual information role got lynched, I just don't believe that you're town that screwed up that badly.
Just...give it a rest.
I'm ready to end the day, let me know when we can move on from here.
Same.
I want to make sure Ghosting is really mafia before I start rereading him looking for mafia buddies, and the night would be a good time to do that.
@Ghosting: I'm gonna be frank, I don't think you're a bad player, I think you actually play a pretty solid game, so when you do something like fake claim doc that ends up outing the real protective role, and being the instrumental reason our actual information role got lynched, I just don't believe that you're town that screwed up that badly.
Just...give it a rest.
I'm ready to end the day, let me know when we can move on from here.
I understand where you're coming from, and I appreciate you saying I have a pretty solid game, so I get that I may end up being the lynch today as a result of my stupidity. However, as town, is there any possibility of you believing me, and if so, how? If not, can I at least get you to admit that there has to be scum between Huntz and Scarbo?
If you agree, is it not best we go for guaranteed scum (as in, mechanically this is verified), instead of someone we are lynching because they messed up (as in, assume is scum, but just a guess)? I would love if I could just copy/paste my role PM and everyone sees I'm just VT and I did mess up, but obviously I can't do that, so I just hope that the Huntz/Scarbo logic at least appeals to you. I'm like 100% certain at least one of, and probably both of, Huntz and Scarbo are scum, and I really don't want scum grabbing another mislynch and we end up even worse off because of my claim. And I know it was a stupid claim, I just figured like I said that I'd end up eating the NK and saving a real town PR. :/
Like I get why people see it as scummy, but it isn't solely scummy -- town don't want to get lynched, town would rather save a PR, and town would be convinced so much in their reads that they'd do something like that in hopes of lynching scum.
There must be scum between Huntz/Scarbo, and as jailer shouldn't you also be pushing that? You pushed for my lynch as doctor because of your role, so why not now when there's a claimed roleblocker and neighbourizer?
Also, right now we have 9 players alive. Of that, we likely have 3 scum and 6 town. If we lynch me, we go down to 3 scum and 5 town. Scum get an NK, so we'd go down to 3 scum and 4 town. If we lynch me and tomorrow is a mislynch as well, we go down to 3 scum and 3 town, then scum win at night, so you can see why I really want to emphasize to people that while lynching me might look good on paper, please consider the possibilities, and also just factor in that one, if not both of, Huntz/Scarbo must be scum.
Even worse, if we do mislynch me today, scum have 3 players remaining to make that mislynch happen, which would be incredibly easy to push, so them mislynching today is incredibly important.
I dig the way shadow mentioned he was going to hold his vote at reread at first. I doubt he would mention that if he were bussing here.
So if you think Shadow is town, which you clearly do, how do you justify town watcher, town roleblocker, and town jailer (who acts as a roleblock) -- and add town neighborizer to that list if you're townreading Huntz (are you? I can't remember). You don't think it's more likely scum and town have roles that mirror each other? It certainly seems most obvious that rather than town having two roleblocking roles, scum has one, and they have the one that's incredibly common for scum to have (plain roleblocker).
Pffft.
If you're going to try to act town, at least read the posts of the person you're talking to. There's like 15 of them, it's not hard.
@Ghosting: I'm not sure why you think I'm ignoring the possibility of the scarbo slot as scum considering I literally said we're lynching fonti after you.
That said, the point about Hunt + shadow is fair, and I'd be more inclined to lynch Hunt after noting that. As a matter of fact, if you flip town, I'm not letting Huntzilla survive this game.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Ghosting: I'm not sure why you think I'm ignoring the possibility of the scarbo slot as scum considering I literally said we're lynching fonti after you.
That said, the point about Hunt + shadow is fair, and I'd be more inclined to lynch Hunt after noting that. As a matter of fact, if you flip town, I'm not letting Huntzilla survive this game.
But I think shadow is town, here.
Okay, so if you think Scarbo is scum, and also think Huntz is probably scum since you're townreading Shadow, why are you lynching me first? Do you agree that if I'm town and mislynched, that it is significantly harder for town to win?
If you're going to try to act town, at least read the posts of the person you're talking to. There's like 15 of them, it's not hard.
Okay, so you're scumreading Huntz. Aside from that, nothing was answered by your previous posts.
Why do you think Huntz is scum, but we shouldn't think you're scum?
Do you think Huntz is for sure scum? If so, again, why are you wanting to lynch me over him?
I'm essentially asking you both to justify lynching someone you think might be scum because of a doctor false claim that could easily come from town, versus someone who mechanically must be scum because there is no possible way all those roles exist together as town. Better yet, you're both townreading Shadow, so deciding between Huntz/Fulcrum should be easy, especially for Fulcrum, even more so when considering the repurcussions of a mislynch.
@Ghosting: I'm gonna be frank, I don't think you're a bad player, I think you actually play a pretty solid game, so when you do something like fake claim doc that ends up outing the real protective role, and being the instrumental reason our actual information role got lynched, I just don't believe that you're town that screwed up that badly.
Just...give it a rest.
I'm ready to end the day, let me know when we can move on from here.
I understand where you're coming from, and I appreciate you saying I have a pretty solid game, so I get that I may end up being the lynch today as a result of my stupidity. However, as town, is there any possibility of you believing me, and if so, how? If not, can I at least get you to admit that there has to be scum between Huntz and Scarbo?
If you agree, is it not best we go for guaranteed scum (as in, mechanically this is verified), instead of someone we are lynching because they messed up (as in, assume is scum, but just a guess)? I would love if I could just copy/paste my role PM and everyone sees I'm just VT and I did mess up, but obviously I can't do that, so I just hope that the Huntz/Scarbo logic at least appeals to you. I'm like 100% certain at least one of, and probably both of, Huntz and Scarbo are scum, and I really don't want scum grabbing another mislynch and we end up even worse off because of my claim. And I know it was a stupid claim, I just figured like I said that I'd end up eating the NK and saving a real town PR. :/
Except the fact that Shadow could have easily Jailed you (you even wanted that).
I also don't see how Shadow and Hunt roles mirror each other - Shadow RB, protects and chats while Hunt ability just chats.
Also, right now we have 9 players alive. Of that, we likely have 3 scum and 6 town. If we lynch me, we go down to 3 scum and 5 town. Scum get an NK, so we'd go down to 3 scum and 4 town. If we lynch me and tomorrow is a mislynch as well, we go down to 3 scum and 3 town, then scum win at night, so you can see why I really want to emphasize to people that while lynching me might look good on paper, please consider the possibilities, and also just factor in that one, if not both of, Huntz/Scarbo must be scum.
Even worse, if we do mislynch me today, scum have 3 players remaining to make that mislynch happen, which would be incredibly easy to push, so them mislynching today is incredibly important.
We could easily mislynch between Hunt and Fulcrum so whats the difference? It can still be 50-50, and look where that mechanics angle brought us - we lynched our Watcher. There is much better chance getting mafia (you) through behaviour based on the fake doctor claim which doesn't make sense in context of your previous posts (see post #1616 for details), than flipping a coin between Hunt and Fulcrum and getting it right.
Why does it so matter to you we lynch Fulcrum first? Even if she turns mafia (which you seem to be pretty sure of), we still lynch you next.
If you're going to try to act town, at least read the posts of the person you're talking to. There's like 15 of them, it's not hard.
Okay, so you're scumreading Huntz. Aside from that, nothing was answered by your previous posts.
Why do you think Huntz is scum, but we shouldn't think you're scum?
Do you think Huntz is for sure scum? If so, again, why are you wanting to lynch me over him?
I think Huntz is scum for the numerous reasons already outlined. I can't give anyone a reason to think I'm not scum, except the logic I'm using to try to solve the game.
I'm not pushing for any lynch at the moment, because I've only read a third of the game. I doubt I will ever be lynching someone over you, because apparently you fakeclaimed doc to save yourself, didn't rescind to save the Watcher, and have now rescinded.
I'm essentially asking you both to justify lynching someone you think might be scum because of a doctor false claim that could easily come from town, versus someone who mechanically must be scum because there is no possible way all those roles exist together as town. Better yet, you're both townreading Shadow, so deciding between Huntz/Fulcrum should be easy, especially for Fulcrum, even more so when considering the repurcussions of a mislynch.
Babe.
The only town to do what you did are the thoughtless and incredibly selfish kind. You strike me as neither of those things. Behavior trumps all other analysis.
The only town to do what you did are the thoughtless and incredibly selfish kind. You strike me as neither of those things. Behavior trumps all other analysis.
So in your opinion, behaviour trumps mechanically confirmed role conflicts? As in, there MUST be scum, UNDENIABLY, between you, Huntz, and Shadow. You can assume what I did makes me scum, but it will never be as important or definitive of a read as a scumread on one or both of you/Huntz. Do you genuinely believe that, in this exact situation, behaviour is the better choice? And if so, can you explain why? Do you disagree that there must be scum in Shadow/Huntz/you?
Additionally, do you disagree that the fake claim could come from town? You say you don't perceive me as thoughtless, so why wouldn't you think that I would make the elaborate plan to false claim in order to prevent me (who I know is town) from being lynched and attempt to save the real power roles by hoping scum will kill me?
We're looking at what you interpret as maybe scum, to something that absolutely must be scum.
And again, if you think Huntz is scum, why not lynch him before me, especially considering that mechanically if you are scumreading him and his role doesn't fit with town jailer, he must be scum?
@Rhand - can you see the chat from the beginning? What do you think about Hunt?
Except the fact that Shadow could have easily Jailed you (you even wanted that).
I also don't see how Shadow and Hunt roles mirror each other - Shadow RB, protects and chats while Hunt ability just chats.
We could easily mislynch between Hunt and Fulcrum so whats the difference? It can still be 50-50, and look where that mechanics angle brought us - we lynched our Watcher. There is much better chance getting mafia (you) through behaviour based on the fake doctor claim which doesn't make sense in context of your previous posts (see post #1616 for details), than flipping a coin between Hunt and Fulcrum and getting it right.
Why does it so matter to you we lynch Fulcrum first? Even if she turns mafia (which you seem to be pretty sure of), we still lynch you next.
It matters to me because if we lynch me first, I flip town, everyone goes "Wow, we were wrong, Ghosting really does just suck", then we have to get the lynch correct or we lose. Did you see the math I posted to verify that? It's why I'm trying to get everyone to see that as long as we assume Shadow is town, Scarbo and Huntz have to be scum. There's no way town have Jailer + Watcher + RB, or Jailer + Watcher + Neighborizer with the overlap/conflict. And if we are wrong about Shadow, we will know today and then we 100% know who to lynch tomorrow. So statistically this is undeniably a better choice still in that regard because of the trichotomy.
But even behaviourally, you'd be hard pressed to convince me of town Hunt or town Scarbo.
Every action has its equal, opposite reaction
Thanks to modgaming, our game fractured into factions
Try not to crack under the stress, we're breaking down like fractions
We smack each other in the thread, and we don't post retractions
No time for a traditional post, but Ghosting is pushing the "no jailer+watcher+RB or jailer+watcher+neighborizer" logic really hard, to the point where he's now using phrases like "statistically this is undeniably a better choice".
I don't know if one of Ghosting's 50 posts toDay explained this, but I don't see the conflict between watcher and the other two. I *do* see overlap between jailer and neighborizer, and also between roleblocker and jailer, and I agree that it's unlikely that we have those overlapping roles on the same side. Mechanically, the argument still stands that town would have the (solely) roleblocking role and the (solely) chat-creating role, while scum would have a role that combines the two. So yes, I could get behind lynching Shadow before Hunt or Fulcrum, but with behavior factored in, I don't know that there's anything that would convince me to vote any of the three over Ghosting.
And that's what this feels like: Ghosting pushing hard to stay alive at all costs. Could it come from town? Town fight their lynch all the time. What I still don't see from town is the fake doc claim. If nothing else, if we did have a doctor that was continuing to keep silent yesterday for some reason, this almost certainly would have caused THAT counterclaim, too. That makes much more sense given that Ghosting knew he was already on the ropes and would likely continue to get scrutiny toDay, so after hearing Rhand scream that there couldn't be a watcher and a doctor, he fake-claimed, feeling like it was a chance to get Anak lynched, or--worst case scenario--expose the real doctor.
I *do* see overlap between jailer and neighborizer, and also between roleblocker and jailer, and I agree that it's unlikely that we have those overlapping roles on the same side.
This line is what I mean, so if I'm saying something different, I don't mean to be (assuming I understand you correctly).
If we were lynching literally anyone who wasn't one of Fulcrum/Huntz/Shadow, I would be just as passionately against it, I assure you. I don't feel comfortable supporting the lynch of anyone who isn't one of those three, because I know, and I think anyone thinking about the odds genuinely, know that 1 to 2 scum are among those three players.
If I can't convince the rest of the town that I'm also town, just please be really really careful tomorrow choosing the lynch, I promise you guys I'll flip town so even if you are dead set on lynching me, please analyze as though I flip town. I just hope I don't get chewed out post-game lol.
Also, it's not as though I haven't been pushing mechanics even before I was a wagon. Yesterday I voted Huntz initially and primarily because of the role issues. But if someone like Iso or you were being voted right now, I'd be asking those players to consider the likelihood of catching scum through Huntz/Shadow/Scarbo instead.
@Ghosting: I'm not sure why you think I'm ignoring the possibility of the scarbo slot as scum considering I literally said we're lynching fonti after you.
That said, the point about Hunt + shadow is fair, and I'd be more inclined to lynch Hunt after noting that. As a matter of fact, if you flip town, I'm not letting Huntzilla survive this game.
But I think shadow is town, here.
Okay, so if you think Scarbo is scum, and also think Huntz is probably scum since you're townreading Shadow, why are you lynching me first? Do you agree that if I'm town and mislynched, that it is significantly harder for town to win?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Are you going to skirt around my questions the entire game?
If you also think Fulcrum is scum, and you think so for behavioural and mechanical reasons, and those mechanical reasons hint much more likely at your analysis being correct as it's an objective claim, why lynch me first instead of him?
If you also think Fulcrum is scum, and you think so for behavioural and mechanical reasons, and those mechanical reasons hint much more likely at your analysis being correct as it's an objective claim, why lynch me first instead of him?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
T/S (and I think this answers all questions to me):
Town
Rhand
Ophidia
Huntzilla: I can read the whole chat he had with Anak. The reason I am townclearing him is that before Anak joined, Huntz already used the chat as a read dump. That is something scum would never do: Why create content that can later be seen by townies for no reason?
Probably town
Iso: For his Ghosting and Scarbo/fulcrum pushes. Unless one of them flips town, I don't think Iso is scum here.
shadow: Sure town if fulcrum flips scum. Since the doc was a falseclaim, he's our protection.
Maybe scum
Mete0r
Cantrip
Both Mete0r and Cantrip are the only possible scum candidates if there's 3 more scum and fulcrum / Ghosting are indeed scum.
Scum
fulcrum: I first thought Scarbo was playing like a strong PR, preventing himself from becoming the NK, but he was probably simply lurking scum. Especially since he didn't use his ability N1: it makes no sense to play like a strong PR and then not using the power.
Ghosting: ready to lynch him when we're ok with ending the Day. I shouldn't have reconsidered this read D1 :/
@Rhand - can you see the chat from the beginning? What do you think about Hunt?
Except the fact that Shadow could have easily Jailed you (you even wanted that).
I also don't see how Shadow and Hunt roles mirror each other - Shadow RB, protects and chats while Hunt ability just chats.
We could easily mislynch between Hunt and Fulcrum so whats the difference? It can still be 50-50, and look where that mechanics angle brought us - we lynched our Watcher. There is much better chance getting mafia (you) through behaviour based on the fake doctor claim which doesn't make sense in context of your previous posts (see post #1616 for details), than flipping a coin between Hunt and Fulcrum and getting it right.
Why does it so matter to you we lynch Fulcrum first? Even if she turns mafia (which you seem to be pretty sure of), we still lynch you next.
It matters to me because if we lynch me first, I flip town, everyone goes "Wow, we were wrong, Ghosting really does just suck", then we have to get the lynch correct or we lose. Did you see the math I posted to verify that? It's why I'm trying to get everyone to see that as long as we assume Shadow is town, Scarbo and Huntz have to be scum. There's no way town have Jailer + Watcher + RB, or Jailer + Watcher + Neighborizer with the overlap/conflict. And if we are wrong about Shadow, we will know today and then we 100% know who to lynch tomorrow. So statistically this is undeniably a better choice still in that regard because of the trichotomy.
But even behaviourally, you'd be hard pressed to convince me of town Hunt or town Scarbo.
You didn't even bother posting the other side of that math (What happens if we do lynch mafia), but I get your point. It's just that this reasoning is exactly why we should lynch the one we believe is mafia, which is you sadly, and exactly why you desperately trying to push off your lynch makes you look even worse (because mislynching is REALLY important for mafia right now).
I do appreciate your fight regardless of alignment, but wow how akward is this game right now.
Yeah clearly nobody is believing me and the school week starts today so I probably won't be bothering to try much from this point on lol. I really am town and it'll be discovered when I flip, good luck guys and I really am sorry about the stupid claim.
I do feel that we're being careless by not lynching one of Scarbo/Huntz, like I know you guys think I'm scum and maybe you'll see past that, or maybe see that it does make more sense to lynch one of those two, but idk at this point what more I can do to convince everyone of that.
So good luck and maybe I'll check in before the end of day otherwise good luck town!
If town feels that lynching maybe scum because of stupid claim is a better idea than has to be scum based on mechanics and behaviour, I can't change that. I feel like just the fact that certain players are also scumreadimg Scarbo and/or Huntz but want me first is telling, but pls just lynch Huntz and Scarbo when I flip town.
I very seriously doubt this, Ghosting's scum flip should all but confirm iso as town.
I know it means nothing coming from me but I will flip town and just don't let Iso etc all persuade you guys who to lynch, please analyze mechanics and don't let them act like the role conflicts don't exist. I messed up but we can still win this if we're smart tomorrow.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
"Don't listen to Iso who wants to lynch fonti next Day, but totally lynch fonti anyway"
~Ghosting, 2017
Clearly missing the point here, but I'm sure that's intentional.
I've acknowledged more than once your willingness, I take issue with you choosing to lynch me first when Fulcrum is likely through both mechanics and behaviour to be scum.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The last Votecount was -
Ghosting(3): Iso, Huntzilla, Ophidia
Huntzilla(1): Ghosting
I didn't see any votes since then, so it's the same.
Considering no one really posting any content and everyone seem to wait for end of day, I might as well go ahead and put Ghosting at L-1 (sorry!) Vote: Ghosting
Unvote
I need to stop second guessing myself, but since I was wrong about Anak I am starting to get paranoid. Would mafia write this last post? I never seen it in any of my games.
Unvote
I need to stop second guessing myself, but since I was wrong about Anak I am starting to get paranoid. Would mafia write this last post? I never seen it in any of my games.
Heh. I actually thought this too. Imo, meteor is town if ghosting is mafia.
Vote; Ghosting
Ghosting cannot be allowed to live after his fakeclaim. Lynching him asap is important to me on the off chance he is town, as I've been running with the assumption that he's mafia for most of my catchup.
Please hammer.
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Breadcrumbs
If you think Scarbo is scum, how do you justify town Shadow and town you? You think we have two incredibly similar roles?
Do you feel Scarbo is guaranteed scum?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
You think this only because it means you're scum if not, and you saying this makes it only more likely that Shadow is the town half of your dichotomy.
So if you think Shadow is town, which you clearly do, how do you justify town watcher, town roleblocker, and town jailer (who acts as a roleblock) -- and add town neighborizer to that list if you're townreading Huntz (are you? I can't remember). You don't think it's more likely scum and town have roles that mirror each other? It certainly seems most obvious that rather than town having two roleblocking roles, scum has one, and they have the one that's incredibly common for scum to have (plain roleblocker).
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Just...give it a rest.
I'm ready to end the day, let me know when we can move on from here.
I want to make sure Ghosting is really mafia before I start rereading him looking for mafia buddies, and the night would be a good time to do that.
I understand where you're coming from, and I appreciate you saying I have a pretty solid game, so I get that I may end up being the lynch today as a result of my stupidity. However, as town, is there any possibility of you believing me, and if so, how? If not, can I at least get you to admit that there has to be scum between Huntz and Scarbo?
If you agree, is it not best we go for guaranteed scum (as in, mechanically this is verified), instead of someone we are lynching because they messed up (as in, assume is scum, but just a guess)? I would love if I could just copy/paste my role PM and everyone sees I'm just VT and I did mess up, but obviously I can't do that, so I just hope that the Huntz/Scarbo logic at least appeals to you. I'm like 100% certain at least one of, and probably both of, Huntz and Scarbo are scum, and I really don't want scum grabbing another mislynch and we end up even worse off because of my claim. And I know it was a stupid claim, I just figured like I said that I'd end up eating the NK and saving a real town PR. :/
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
There must be scum between Huntz/Scarbo, and as jailer shouldn't you also be pushing that? You pushed for my lynch as doctor because of your role, so why not now when there's a claimed roleblocker and neighbourizer?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Even worse, if we do mislynch me today, scum have 3 players remaining to make that mislynch happen, which would be incredibly easy to push, so them mislynching today is incredibly important.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Pffft.
If you're going to try to act town, at least read the posts of the person you're talking to. There's like 15 of them, it's not hard.
That said, the point about Hunt + shadow is fair, and I'd be more inclined to lynch Hunt after noting that. As a matter of fact, if you flip town, I'm not letting Huntzilla survive this game.
But I think shadow is town, here.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Okay, so if you think Scarbo is scum, and also think Huntz is probably scum since you're townreading Shadow, why are you lynching me first? Do you agree that if I'm town and mislynched, that it is significantly harder for town to win?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Okay, so you're scumreading Huntz. Aside from that, nothing was answered by your previous posts.
Why do you think Huntz is scum, but we shouldn't think you're scum?
Do you think Huntz is for sure scum? If so, again, why are you wanting to lynch me over him?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Except the fact that Shadow could have easily Jailed you (you even wanted that).
I also don't see how Shadow and Hunt roles mirror each other - Shadow RB, protects and chats while Hunt ability just chats.
We could easily mislynch between Hunt and Fulcrum so whats the difference? It can still be 50-50, and look where that mechanics angle brought us - we lynched our Watcher. There is much better chance getting mafia (you) through behaviour based on the fake doctor claim which doesn't make sense in context of your previous posts (see post #1616 for details), than flipping a coin between Hunt and Fulcrum and getting it right.
Why does it so matter to you we lynch Fulcrum first? Even if she turns mafia (which you seem to be pretty sure of), we still lynch you next.
I think Huntz is scum for the numerous reasons already outlined. I can't give anyone a reason to think I'm not scum, except the logic I'm using to try to solve the game.
I'm not pushing for any lynch at the moment, because I've only read a third of the game. I doubt I will ever be lynching someone over you, because apparently you fakeclaimed doc to save yourself, didn't rescind to save the Watcher, and have now rescinded.
Babe.
The only town to do what you did are the thoughtless and incredibly selfish kind. You strike me as neither of those things. Behavior trumps all other analysis.
So in your opinion, behaviour trumps mechanically confirmed role conflicts? As in, there MUST be scum, UNDENIABLY, between you, Huntz, and Shadow. You can assume what I did makes me scum, but it will never be as important or definitive of a read as a scumread on one or both of you/Huntz. Do you genuinely believe that, in this exact situation, behaviour is the better choice? And if so, can you explain why? Do you disagree that there must be scum in Shadow/Huntz/you?
Additionally, do you disagree that the fake claim could come from town? You say you don't perceive me as thoughtless, so why wouldn't you think that I would make the elaborate plan to false claim in order to prevent me (who I know is town) from being lynched and attempt to save the real power roles by hoping scum will kill me?
We're looking at what you interpret as maybe scum, to something that absolutely must be scum.
And again, if you think Huntz is scum, why not lynch him before me, especially considering that mechanically if you are scumreading him and his role doesn't fit with town jailer, he must be scum?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
It matters to me because if we lynch me first, I flip town, everyone goes "Wow, we were wrong, Ghosting really does just suck", then we have to get the lynch correct or we lose. Did you see the math I posted to verify that? It's why I'm trying to get everyone to see that as long as we assume Shadow is town, Scarbo and Huntz have to be scum. There's no way town have Jailer + Watcher + RB, or Jailer + Watcher + Neighborizer with the overlap/conflict. And if we are wrong about Shadow, we will know today and then we 100% know who to lynch tomorrow. So statistically this is undeniably a better choice still in that regard because of the trichotomy.
But even behaviourally, you'd be hard pressed to convince me of town Hunt or town Scarbo.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Thanks to modgaming, our game fractured into factions
Try not to crack under the stress, we're breaking down like fractions
We smack each other in the thread, and we don't post retractions
I don't modgame. Go try to convince someone else.
I don't know if one of Ghosting's 50 posts toDay explained this, but I don't see the conflict between watcher and the other two. I *do* see overlap between jailer and neighborizer, and also between roleblocker and jailer, and I agree that it's unlikely that we have those overlapping roles on the same side. Mechanically, the argument still stands that town would have the (solely) roleblocking role and the (solely) chat-creating role, while scum would have a role that combines the two. So yes, I could get behind lynching Shadow before Hunt or Fulcrum, but with behavior factored in, I don't know that there's anything that would convince me to vote any of the three over Ghosting.
And that's what this feels like: Ghosting pushing hard to stay alive at all costs. Could it come from town? Town fight their lynch all the time. What I still don't see from town is the fake doc claim. If nothing else, if we did have a doctor that was continuing to keep silent yesterday for some reason, this almost certainly would have caused THAT counterclaim, too. That makes much more sense given that Ghosting knew he was already on the ropes and would likely continue to get scrutiny toDay, so after hearing Rhand scream that there couldn't be a watcher and a doctor, he fake-claimed, feeling like it was a chance to get Anak lynched, or--worst case scenario--expose the real doctor.
I should be able to post more tomorrow morning.
This line is what I mean, so if I'm saying something different, I don't mean to be (assuming I understand you correctly).
If we were lynching literally anyone who wasn't one of Fulcrum/Huntz/Shadow, I would be just as passionately against it, I assure you. I don't feel comfortable supporting the lynch of anyone who isn't one of those three, because I know, and I think anyone thinking about the odds genuinely, know that 1 to 2 scum are among those three players.
If I can't convince the rest of the town that I'm also town, just please be really really careful tomorrow choosing the lynch, I promise you guys I'll flip town so even if you are dead set on lynching me, please analyze as though I flip town. I just hope I don't get chewed out post-game lol.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Ghost
Shadow/Fulc
Iso
DEAR GHOSTING,
I AM LYNCHING YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE SCUM
REGARDS,
ISO
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Are you going to skirt around my questions the entire game?
If you also think Fulcrum is scum, and you think so for behavioural and mechanical reasons, and those mechanical reasons hint much more likely at your analysis being correct as it's an objective claim, why lynch me first instead of him?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
DEAR GHOSTING,
I AM LYNCHING YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE SCUM
REGARDS,
ISO
Shh, that's a secret.
Anyway, you're next.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Whatever helps you sleep at night, dear.
Town
Rhand
Ophidia
Huntzilla: I can read the whole chat he had with Anak. The reason I am townclearing him is that before Anak joined, Huntz already used the chat as a read dump. That is something scum would never do: Why create content that can later be seen by townies for no reason?
Probably town
Iso: For his Ghosting and Scarbo/fulcrum pushes. Unless one of them flips town, I don't think Iso is scum here.
shadow: Sure town if fulcrum flips scum. Since the doc was a falseclaim, he's our protection.
Maybe scum
Mete0r
Cantrip
Both Mete0r and Cantrip are the only possible scum candidates if there's 3 more scum and fulcrum / Ghosting are indeed scum.
Scum
fulcrum: I first thought Scarbo was playing like a strong PR, preventing himself from becoming the NK, but he was probably simply lurking scum. Especially since he didn't use his ability N1: it makes no sense to play like a strong PR and then not using the power.
Ghosting: ready to lynch him when we're ok with ending the Day. I shouldn't have reconsidered this read D1 :/
You didn't even bother posting the other side of that math (What happens if we do lynch mafia), but I get your point. It's just that this reasoning is exactly why we should lynch the one we believe is mafia, which is you sadly, and exactly why you desperately trying to push off your lynch makes you look even worse (because mislynching is REALLY important for mafia right now).
I do appreciate your fight regardless of alignment, but wow how akward is this game right now.
I do feel that we're being careless by not lynching one of Scarbo/Huntz, like I know you guys think I'm scum and maybe you'll see past that, or maybe see that it does make more sense to lynch one of those two, but idk at this point what more I can do to convince everyone of that.
So good luck and maybe I'll check in before the end of day otherwise good luck town!
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Maybe this chatter between him and Iso points to Iso and him being scum buddies who accuse each other to clear Iso.
I very seriously doubt this, Ghosting's scum flip should all but confirm iso as town.
I know it means nothing coming from me but I will flip town and just don't let Iso etc all persuade you guys who to lynch, please analyze mechanics and don't let them act like the role conflicts don't exist. I messed up but we can still win this if we're smart tomorrow.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
~Ghosting, 2017
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Clearly missing the point here, but I'm sure that's intentional.
I've acknowledged more than once your willingness, I take issue with you choosing to lynch me first when Fulcrum is likely through both mechanics and behaviour to be scum.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The point is being made because of people choosing to lynch me first, the point wouldn't exist if I wasn't being lynched lol.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Ghosting(3): Iso, Huntzilla, Ophidia
Huntzilla(1): Ghosting
I didn't see any votes since then, so it's the same.
Considering no one really posting any content and everyone seem to wait for end of day, I might as well go ahead and put Ghosting at L-1 (sorry!)
Vote: Ghosting
Ghosting(4): Iso, Huntzilla, Ophidia, Mete0rShower (L-1)
Huntzilla(1): Ghosting
Deadline: 2100 6th of February (Approx. 1 week)
Huntz/Fulcrum are very likely two of the remaining scum.
If there's a third remaining scum I would look between Iso and Rhand.
Gg guys, good luck to town, I'll see you all in the post game.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I need to stop second guessing myself, but since I was wrong about Anak I am starting to get paranoid. Would mafia write this last post? I never seen it in any of my games.
Heh. I actually thought this too. Imo, meteor is town if ghosting is mafia.
Vote; Ghosting
Ghosting cannot be allowed to live after his fakeclaim. Lynching him asap is important to me on the off chance he is town, as I've been running with the assumption that he's mafia for most of my catchup.
Please hammer.