Holy crap Ghosting looks like you caught us!!!! Can you please just vote Mindreaver? He's a double-roleblocker. My other buddies are Kraj (poisoner), Matowar (ascetic), and Hunger (quadruple voter)!!!!! Thanks for the game it was fun but Ghosting is really just too good for us I'm sure he'll top8 in ProTourGPNorthKorea looks like I should just play at DieStoreMoval until I get better at this forum game of mafia, clearly MTGS is way too pro for me
Don't you miss Manders though? You could play over there... with the 7 others that are left.
I will laugh really hard though if you just named your team. Seems like a ballsy Seppel move to pull.
This is basically just a PTAP. Like, I've been reading along and some good things have been posted (mostly looking at you, silver), but I do not have anything to say. I find myself less invested now, as if I'm just a neutral third party.
I will edit my town block a little though.
matowar, tappingstones, bloscovi, seppel, silver, prophylaxis, huntzilla, jobie (in order of strength of my townread)
I have been putting kraj and brinatoo in there for quite some time based on their early interactions with tappingstones. But it occurs to me that thats the easiest sort of scum/town interaction to fake.
Kraj is just null now, but add brinatoo to the group* I wouldn't mind seeing a corpse of.
I might save a brinatoo push for another day, as I'm reasonably happy with a ghosting lynch and don't really have the desire to lead a counterwagon.
* that group now includes ghosting, mindreaver, hunger (i guess), forever and always businessman, and now brinatoo.
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Curiosity killed the cat. But for awhile, I was a suspect.
Can you explain the Jobie townread (I realize it's super light), as well as why Matowar is so solidly town? I've been kind of waffling back and forth on him so further clarity would be nice.
Can you explain the Jobie townread (I realize it's super light), as well as why Matowar is so solidly town? I've been kind of waffling back and forth on him so further clarity would be nice.
Sure.
Jobie is an extremely light townread, somewhat based on seppel being town. He has been completely jokey/dismissive with seppel, who has him as a strong town read. I find it unlikely that scumjobie would take that line with (iirc) the only townie who feels strongly about him.
Matowar I've already talked about a bit. I'm completely sure he is genuinely trying to improve, and that just does not make any sense if this is his first scum game.
There are worlds where either could be scum. You can see how likely I think those worlds are based on where they are on my list.
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Curiosity killed the cat. But for awhile, I was a suspect.
Holy crap Ghosting looks like you caught us!!!! Can you please just vote Mindreaver? He's a double-roleblocker. My other buddies are Kraj (poisoner), Matowar (ascetic), and Hunger (quadruple voter)!!!!! Thanks for the game it was fun but Ghosting is really just too good for us I'm sure he'll top8 in ProTourGPNorthKorea looks like I should just play at DieStoreMoval until I get better at this forum game of mafia, clearly MTGS is way too pro for me
Don't you miss Manders though? You could play over there... with the 7 others that are left.
I will laugh really hard though if you just named your team. Seems like a ballsy Seppel move to pull.
ARE YOU KIDDING I WOULD NEVER DO THAT, THATS GAMETHROWING!!
Since you decided to only provide explanations for your townreads, could you answer a few questions?
1) Of the five players you listed as scum, who is the most? Least?
2) If you think the player is scum, why do you not value scum flipping higher than information gained? If we lynch scum, how is that not good? You imply that three people are strongly scum, but just don't give us enough information. This is reading as highly opportunistic.
3) Of those five, do you think there are any pairs? Do you think any couldn't be scum together?
4) So what did you notice about Brinatoo that makes you think he's scum? Otherwise this is fencesitting with an incredibly vague clue attached.
First, if you want better explanations, my original t/s list is probably where you should check first.
Onto the questions!
1) Reads are for different reasons, so it's hard to put them in a strict order, but I'd say something along the lines of:
Less Scum
Matowar77
Hunger
...
Ghosting
Kraj
...
imabusinessman
More Scum
That's my preference right now. What did you hope to gain out of that? That I like IABM's game thus far the least out of anyone?
2) You can read it however you want, I'm not saying anything new here. I'm actually voting IABM right now, he's somebody I'd lynch today, yesterday, the day before. He's not helping, and what town mindset does this much WIFOM/unhelpful crap? But lets say it's all just him having fun, he's town, and we lynch him. What does that tell us? Nothing. Can we look on his wagon? Probably not, because lots of my townreads (and yours too btw) are saying they'd vig him if possible. How do we analyze that? Easy for scum to hide and say "he's unhelpful" when lots of town are saying it too. Now lets say he's scum instead. Yay, we're one step closer to winning, lets look for his partners... only the ONE person he's even talked to was seppel, about Sonic, the hedgehog. ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE, LYNCH THAT GUY. No? We're back to square one, but yeah, we're ahead one.
Instead, if I go to the next scum person on the list instead, say Kraj (there is a similar case for you as well), he's voted 3 times, and interacted with more people. There are things to chase down on a scum flip. On a town flip too, every person that voted for him, or listed him in a t/s list, is now re-evaluated. Who was opportunistic? Who's reasoning was shaky? Who knew too much? We use that information to find more scum.
Why is this such a foreign concept? That I'd rather lynch the best choice that gives us the best chance at winning? I don't understand what you and seppel are even trying to get at here. It's not like I'm advocating a lynch on a townread just for flip/interaction info, I'm talking specifically my top scumreads, and weighing the possible gains when deciding where my vote does the most good.
3) Well, for mato, IABM, and hunger; I don't think there is enough posts to say they'd be partners one way or another. I'd have to double check whether mato/hunger ever mentioned IABM, but I don't think so. You specifically left our your detailed read on Kraj, which I thought was suspicious. Kraj has never mentioned you, although he has mentioned your wagon, so he's aware of the votes on you and didn't have any specific concerns or questions. You're also left off of his t/s breakdown. So if I had to come up with a pair, I'd say Ghosting/Kraj is the most probable at this point, of those 5 names.
4) Yeah, probably not my strongest post. But I'm not sharing yet. Call it what you will, fence-sitting, or whatever, I'm not ready to go there. If it continues, I'll share.
The problem is that if we don't seem to be threatening the scummiest person by lynching them, it gives a free pass to act scummy because you won't get lynched as long as you don't provide "information" from your flip. It muddies the waters and makes lurking scum harder to catch.
When is it appropriate to lynch based solely on scumminess? Lylo? Wait until they're the only scum left? What if all the scum have close to no interactions (Matowar/Jobie/Kraj/IMAB team)?
Mindreaver the way you play mafia is aggravating. It seems like you're just coming up with an excuse To Vote Ghosting instead of any of the good options on your list.
Jobie - ???. I've got literally nothing. He dropped his vote on Kraj and vanished. He's pushing nothing, and making minimal attempt to figure anything out. He's a fairly plausible scumbuddy of Ghosting for the way he dismissed the wagon on him in one of his few posts, maybe.
I'm useless on D1. Like as an analyst.
Also, the seriousness of my # question did not turn out as I hoped. I think this lends credence to the "Iso doesn't want/like mod-gaming". Hunger's lack of desire to answer annoys me, I could be swayed towards voting him.
Can you point to my dismissal of the Ghosting wagon, because I don't remember doing that?
if the Ghosting wagon had any strength behind it, it would have persevered through my one-liner.
As for not lynching me, there are people that have actually been scummy (Kraj and Matowar, for example) and have some small consensus regarding their scumminess.
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Many of his posts I have minor issues with - barning reasons for vote on TS wagon in post 84; ignoring Jobie's valid attack of wagon-hopping in favor of asking GJ for reasons in 201; throwaway vote on IAMB in 267. Post 259 is what does it for me, though:
When pressured for scum reads, he comes up with Seppel for being Seppel (while also suspiciously borrowing phrasing from NAG's post 125 regarding Proph coaching Mindreaver; clearly that post caught his attention), IAMB for being "unhelpful" (scum love to get the town to view players as being difficult or not contributing when there's nothing to otherwise justify an attack), and Matowar for better reasons but that ultimately are just a fence sit. Futher, his Matowar vote follows Seppel's (one of his scum reads) vote just 10 posts prior at a time when there is no other wagon to divert attention to (he's already voting TS, which is a dead wagon, and Ghosting's wagon had been stalled out for a while already).
Seriously though, do you guys not realize why I actually claimed now?
I wasn't going to claim the lovers part, but I wanted my other half to know who I was.
Maybe I would have if I had realized I wasn't town.
Actually this does nothing to explain. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but I don't see why it's important for your partner to know who you are immediately. What's the risk? Why wouldn't it be way, way, way, better to wait until you were under pressure to claim? I would have totally called B.S. on not knowing your own alignment if other people hadn't apparently had the same problem. Which, in a Normal game, is completely absurd. But whatever. It is what it is.
I find it hilarious that everyone is quick to lament my 'horrible' vote on NAG and call me scum for it while agreeing with my logic and not bothering to say where or why it goes wrong, or even whether I'm wrong at all. I was well-aware the vote would be controversial; I'm not surprised no one agreed with me because the strength of the evidence isn't there, but I still think I'm right.
@Kraj - Reconcile your attack on TS for not thinking through both town and scum motivations of NAG's claim while you are voting NAG here and seemingly not considering the town/neutral motivations.
Fair question, but I had already considered the town motivation. My immediate reaction to NAG's claim was that James Bond is obvtown and he claimed either because he wanted the attention drawn to himself for some reason, or he literally claimed just "because it's awesome" (and it is). A neutral motivation is irrelevant because he thought he was town at the time.
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The Golden Rule of forums: If you're going to be rude, be right. If you might be wrong, be polite.
If we guess or assume that NaG thought he was town (because his role PM didn't explicitly say he was neutral) we could probably further assume that he thought his "lover" might be scum.
If he thought his lover was scum, he would want to out himself to his lover to ensure he doesn't draw the NK without claiming Lover because we might try to lynch him to get his lover.
Then GJ claimed neutral, of course.
Now, if NaG is scum, either he lied and GJ is scum with him (because GJ said Bond was his lover and then NaG confirmed he was lovers with Natalya) or he doubled his chances of being lynched because he dies if we lynch either him or GJ.
I don't think he was lying; he breadcrumbed lovers so hard for his five or six posts that I'm surprised no one picked up on it. "Lover's quarrel," etc.
While I have some suspicions about the true alignments of the lovers, I'm going to accept their neutral claim for at least Today. If the lovers are tragic, I think GJ is far more likely scum than NaG.
I'm not going to rely on flavor gaming here, Bond claimed neutral and basically my entire town block claimed (and my own role PM has) Russian flavor even though Janus is supposed to be the scum team.
So, yeah. A name drop from the GoldenEye game isn't going to sell me on someone's alignment.
But like I said, I'm not looking at the lovers right now. They claimed neutral, neutral seems reasonable, and there's scum to hunt. If it seems worth visiting later, then I'll come back to it.
@Seppel: I'm still looking for a response to my question about Silvercry and your earlier scumread on him. I also still feel that your response read incredibly upset at me for thinking you're scum. Do you feel that the response came across as level-headed and rational, or fueled by emotion? I have more to ask you when I'm back on my computer, but let's start there.
@Mindreaver: So...your replies said next to nothing new. Essentially, you still have two reads you think are more likely to be scum, and are still valuing information over lynching scum. Additionally, you're still hiding the reason you're fencesitting on Brinatoo, and I think it's because you don't actually have a reason. Also, what makes you think I'm the most probable lynch? Can you list three reasons you think I'm scum for me?
One more question for you, Mindreaver, since my lynch is bursting with potential information in your eyes. Considering you view two players as more likely to be scum than me, do you think my hypothetical mislynch would provide more information than your top two read's lynch if they flip scum? As in, is a more likely town flip better in your eyes because of information than a more likely scum flip? Are you also factoring in that we get more information every nice based on roles/if someone is killed? It looks to me like you're trying to push my wagon solely for "information", which I think is very poor reasoning and you just trying to make something up to get it to happen. I'm not convinced.
@Seppel: I'm still looking for a response to my question about Silvercry and your earlier scumread on him. I also still feel that your response read incredibly upset at me for thinking you're scum. Do you feel that the response came across as level-headed and rational, or fueled by emotion? I have more to ask you when I'm back on my computer, but let's start there.
What about my earlier scumread? OT was fueled my emotion. Your paranoia is so stupid and wasteful of my time that I wanted to say something like, "You're an idiot" but since that's infraction-worthy, I resorted to sarcasm instead.
Essentially I feel like I've been put in charge of babysitting you. And it's not a pleasant feeling.
@ghosting - that's two misreps in two posts. I never said you were the most probable lynch. I also didn't say there were two people more scummy, but wanted you anyway. Quote me saying either one, I'll wait.
Also, you guys are asking my thought process, that's what I gave you. I'm not posting "new information" because that wasn't what your problem was with my original post. It wasn't "Where are your scumreads" it was "we don't understand why you'd think that way". So that's what I posted.
If you don't agree with my reads, say that. If you don't agree with why we should be looking at Kraj/Ghosting over Hunger/IABM/Mato, SAY WHY. But I'm not going to change my opinions if they only arguments I hear are about how stupid my conclusions are, when you aren't responding to how I arrived there, and not offering your own thought process. Is my process scummy? Should we all just push iamabusinesssman and not think too much about it? Is that the argument here?
@ghosting - that's two misreps in two posts. I never said you were the most probable lynch. I also didn't say there were two people more scummy, but wanted you anyway. Quote me saying either one, I'll wait.
Okay, lol.
"I'd say Ghosting/Kraj is the most probable at this point"
Also, you guys are asking my thought process, that's what I gave you. I'm not posting "new information" because that wasn't what your problem was with my original post. It wasn't "Where are your scumreads" it was "we don't understand why you'd think that way". So that's what I posted.
Your thought process is why we are questioning you. It's the fact that your thought process isn't aligning with a town perspective: if you are more confident that two people are scum than the person you're trying to lynch, and justifying that through "information gained", your thought process isn't town. That's what has been said.
If you don't agree with my reads, say that. If you don't agree with why we should be looking at Kraj/Ghosting over Hunger/IABM/Mato, SAY WHY. But I'm not going to change my opinions if they only arguments I hear are about how stupid my conclusions are, when you aren't responding to how I arrived there, and not offering your own thought process. Is my process scummy? Should we all just push iamabusinesssman and not think too much about it? Is that the argument here?
Can you answer the questions I asked you?
1) Can you list three reasons you think I'm scum for me?
2) What makes you think I'm the most probable lynch? (You said this and I quoted you, so please answer it.)
3) What is your reason for Brinatoo? Fencesitting and saying "I have a reason but I won't tell anyone because...reasons" is benefiting town...how? I'm 99% sure you are saying you have a reason but actually don't.
Ignore the probable part, I misinterpreted what you said. My apologies.
I still would like you to list three reasons you think I'm scum, and also why you won't tell us the thing that Brinatoo is doing that is making you think he could be scum.
(Fyi the probable part has no effect on my argument, because I'm arguing that you are pushing for my lynch over your two stronger scumreads because you think it's more likely due to the timing and votes already on me, etc.)
Essentially, I think "he didn't say he was town" is a really menial reason that should not even be considered when determining someone's alignment. An argument could be made that saying he was in fact town could be more likely to come from scum, so it's a totally moot point. You bringing it up and calling him scum in two posts, one referencing him not calling himself town as the reason, reads as highly suspect to me.
OT was fueled my emotion.
Which is why I'm saying it was a bad reaction. Town shouldn't get so blatantly frustrated at one other player suggesting they could be scum. It's an overreaction.
Your paranoia is so stupid and wasteful of my time that I wanted to say something like, "You're an idiot" but since that's infraction-worthy, I resorted to sarcasm instead.
My paranoid is stupid and wasteful? My "paranoia" is scumhunting. It's not like it's out of nowhere, I have paragraphs with posts referenced and very legitimate points. If you are town, there are better responses than saying someone who is trying is wasting your time. This is another example of a reaction I do not see coming from town.
Essentially I feel like I've been put in charge of babysitting you. And it's not a pleasant feeling.
Yes, "babysit" me. As in, having to tell me you're not scum.
Last post I promise, was waiting for someone else to post lol but about to go to school so getting this in before I do.
Less Scum
Matowar77
Hunger
...
Ghosting
Kraj
...
imabusinessman
More Scum
So both imab and Kraj are listed as more scummy than me. Undeniably, at least Imab. This is in response to you saying:
I also didn't say there were two people more scummy, but wanted you anyway.
You want me lynched today, and you did say two people are more scummy. Really recently too so idk why you would say this when I can just go back and copy your T/S list.
imabusinessman has been suspended for a week. I will not be seeking a replacement for him. However, it seems Hardwood_Paneling has no intention of returning, so I will be seeking one for him.
When can we expect him to start participating again? It's been over a week since the suspension.
Yeah, I understand that. Playstyle differences/culture clash, etc.
What are your views of the gamestate so far?
I think you, Mato, and GJ are town.
Mindreaver jumped from Hardwood to TS pretty quickly and retracted his vote from Hardwood by saying "I guess RVS is over, so Unvote", when his vote on Hardwood wasn't an RVS vote. So I'm curious his reasoning for that.
TS always is hard to read for me so I'm not sure where I stand on him, typically I find he reads very natural as town.
Hardwood seems town.
Also, I'm liking how analytical everyone seems so far. And active. But then again, it's the beginning of the game, and it's always that way at first lol.
Ghosting didn't come up with any "reads" besides the GJ thing until here and it was baseless reads at that. Saying he was developing reads with only content like this is suspicious.
Now I at least have something to work with if I at some point get knocked off. We have at least two instances of non-town mindset interacting with me.
Do you think it makes sense for Proph to so openly defend Kraj in this manner, though? It's so far from discreet that if Proph was town and Kraj flipped scum, it'd look incredibly suspicious, especially so early on.
Can't come from a town perspective? Even Kraj who is voting me said he say the town mindset in that question. There actually isn't a scum motivation to ask that question. From my point of view James Bond is likely one of our big power roles. I suppose there are some roles where Bond would be safe to claim on day one maybe he has something cool like the first time he would die it redirects some sort of evasion plus counter attack flavor? Even so I think it would be best to at least let the game develop a bit first.
Could be a VT trying to create value for us down the road but that would risk a possible counter-claim and maybe things spiral out of control and we have a mislynch. It's just a ton of WIFOM. No one else has volunteered their role so it's absolutely worthy of discussion.
Let's say that Bond is a town role. Do you think further discussion benefits town or scum more? Hypothetically, let's imagine James Bond is the doctor. If he tells us this, he's dead tonight. You can imagine similar scenarios.
This nicely sums up my problem with TS's play, and his entire reaction to the pressure on him has been OMGUS, with flimsy or inconsistent logic. I've also seen scum implode to pressure on less evidence than this on day 1. If it were later in the game and I had made a full case on him and strongly felt he's scum, then I'd dismiss his defense as desperate flailing and push for his lynch. However, time and time again I've seen townies - particularly on day 1 - get stuck in the mindset that anyone attacking them must be scum because the only thing they know for sure is they are town. In fact, I just finished a game Manders ran on DiesToRemoval as scum and used that exact reaction to push a case on a townie. That's the read I get off of TS here and I'm reasonably certain he's town. Unvote
Regarding my play history, I semi-retired years ago and only join a game once in a while. Return to Amistaria might be the most recent town game, and Cyberspace the scum game. I can easily name older, more memorable games if you want. I earned a town MVP in my very first game, Mushroom Kingdom, and in Inheritance. I pulled off a miracle mafia win in Fairytale mini, and as a wacky neutral in Sword of Truth. More?
Also, why do you ask?
Having played with TS more than once, I can verify that his play thus far and what you're perceiving as OMGUS votes is in fact within his town playstyle. I'm reading him very much as town, and think that when you consider the motivations behind his posting as well as the raw emotion, it's clear he is also town in this game.
I think you're obvtown and am fairly sure everyone else will come to that conclusion eventually.
All relevant interactions, Ghosting meta-confirms TS as town. Flavor-theory crafting and also a bold statement from Ghosting saying he thinks everyone will read TS as town eventually.
Do you think it makes sense for Proph to so openly defend Kraj in this manner, though? It's so far from discreet that if Proph was town and Kraj flipped scum, it'd look incredibly suspicious, especially so early on.
I don't think it hurts Proph to defend in that manner as scum, no. I also disagree that it looks incredibly suspicious if Kraj flips scum. My read on Proph isn't based in any part on his assurances about Kraj. They are based on his interactions with me.
Let's say that Bond is a town role. Do you think further discussion benefits town or scum more? Hypothetically, let's imagine James Bond is the doctor. If he tells us this, he's dead tonight. You can imagine similar scenarios.
Does "doctor" James Bond come out and say "Here I am"? Your questions are required to make sense and this one doesn't. The doctor doesn't want to do anything of this sort. I'm just at a loss to how this is useful to town in anyway. I'm going to file it away as town vanilla who hopes to eat a nightkill for now but I'm still troubled about revealing for no reason.
More flavor/mod gaming and a bit of discussion about Proph/Kraj.
I'm also very wary of anyone who is claiming a scumread on Ghosting right now. This game is mirrioring the other games I've played with him in and they were town games. The things people are saying are scummy like "overexplaining" (WTF?) are his normal posting methods.I think it's more likely that at least one scum player thinks he could get Ghosting run up since it has recently gone down that way. But Seppel, GJ, Hunt and I are all in this game and we just played with town!Ghosting doing the same thing. I want to know what other think about Proph. I think he seems like a good first lynch option for us!
Openly defending Ghosting and suspicious of anyone who claims a scumread on Ghosting with respect to his meta from a prior game.
I didn't like his early interactions with Ghosting. Reminds me of how scum tried to run up Ghosting in AA. Scum!Meggido made some very weak attacks on Ghosting which I voted him and tried to get him lynched (but alas too many people were town-reading him).
Hum.
@TappingStones
Let's try a thought exercise.
Pretend Proph and myself are both mod-confirmed town, publicly.
What does that mean for the gamestate, and the Ghosting wagon, in particular?
Literally no other person has expressed any interest in the wagon, or Ghosting, despite two town being the only people pushing it.
Granted, a large chunk of the game isn't exactly playing, admittedly.
Like. In this world (Proph/myself town), who is scum? What are they doing? If you could kill three people in that world, who would you kill to have the highest chance at killing multiple scum?
Why are you so sure that Proph is town? Can you put into words with good examples? Like, I don't think you can just say "He feels like town to me" and expect I should reasonably agree with you. As you said a big chunk of the playerbase is just not here/not contributing so I can't with any degree of confidence say I'm right about anything (sucks to say, but it's the most reasonable conclusion to make). I do have to trust myself though. And as such I also am aware of my own limitations and I am very well known for lettting people show me that they are town and moving on to killing the actual scum. My final votes of the day are very, very rarely on town players. I would wager I'm in the Top 2-3 players on the whole site for that stat, granted a lot of that is due to small sample size but some of it is due to working hard in thread and being fluid enough to jump on and off when I feel something strange or when a player shows me his reads are valid.Right now Proph isn't doing much. He's handing out townreads and he was scum reading Ghosting and then said he wanted to unvote because Ghosting responded well. He has no reason to continue voting Ghosting but he can't lure himself away. The question is why?
I think this is TS's worst post concerning meta-gaming considering he thinks Blos shouldn't consider Proph town if "he feels like town to me." This logic completely debunks TS's logic toward Ghosting because meta-gaming and townclearing for past game is along the same avenue as "he feels like town to me." Not exactly the same but feelings like this could be stemmed from past gaming.
It would be a lot more helpful if Blos and Proph weren't playing as if they were a single person. This isn't a hydra game. Proph is barning everything Blos is saying and providing close to no scum reads. The only thing they want to push is Ghosting even though Proph said he wanted to unvote him because he liked how Ghosting answered the questions. Blos is reading as very crafted especially over the last few pages. Really hate his "it's an 'easy' lynch. It could still be on scum! But I had a light town read on Hardwood, and am just vaguely uncomfortable with the push on Silver. There's been stuff he's done I don't like, but there's also stuff like straight up putting no scum reads in a town/scum list that I have trouble seeing scum in his position doing." This kind of fence sitting is so unhelpful. And Proph barning everything without reasons is less then useless.
Still pushing Proph and critically evaluating his means to the Ghosting wagon. Still Ghosting invested.
@Blos-Why is it wrong for Ghosting to "know" GJ is town but not wrong for you to "know" Proph is town? You've played as if he was confirmed town long before he had posted enough to give you any reason. I think it's strange that it's ok for you to have such an early town clearance but Ghosting can't. Also you just fished onto why Seppel would claim so early when I asked the same thing of James Bond claiming. I literally asked what's the point of claiming like that? But several of you, wrongly assumed there was something wrong with that. I see a lot of "Do as I say but not as I do". Want to clarify so I can understand your positions better?
@Ghosting-I think I mentioned I wanted T/S list with reasoning. Are you going to provide that?
Definitely man, as I said I'm just in the process of rereading, and answering questions as I complete the reread. I'm also finishing a lab report for my physics class tonight so that is prioritised, although I am obviously playing a bit right now.
Very casual/interpersonal response, I found it strange at first but idk about language tells per person/length into the day.
@Ghosting-I think I mentioned I wanted T/S list with reasoning.
Are you going to provide that?
Definitely man, as I said I'm just in the process of rereading, and answering questions as I complete the reread. I'm also finishing a lab report for my physics class tonight so that is prioritised, although I am obviously playing a bit right now.
Well I would think you could play a little hooky to help us clarify your role in this game old sport.
I've had a hard time shaking a particular idea. after reading through Ghosting vs. Blos I keep coming back to the idea of Blos hard bussing. Is that a thing? He really put the gas on Ghosting from the word go and hasn't let up. The latest post really made me stop and think about it. I considered "He just said he isn't moving his vote until Ghosting is dead. That's pretty extreme. But he has invested a big attack on Ghosting. IF it's bussing he gets nothing out of it until Ghosting flips. Then he gets the 'See I was right all along' cred. One of his other points that he's brought up multiple times is that 'no scum is on the wagon', well, unless that scum is you and town wants no part of it. In fact IF Blos is scum and Proph is town, Proph already said he's just /barn what Blos case is. This could literally be one scum player trying to nail Ghosting"Ok, now someone tell me I'm crazt for thinking about all that, but it's bothering me.
Something about the Proph/Blos slots are gross.
First signs of this theory by him, I think of it as opening to abandoning ship on his meta-clear stance from before.
#378: Can someone please try to convince me TS is scum after this. What a genuine, town mindset. I feel like TS is blatantly town and this is just further proof.
#392: By TS, I like this post, he sounds like a townie who is genuinely frustrated and trying to make other people see his view.
Man, TS seems like a very genuine guy.... How is it genuine? He was defending you with meta in 378 then saying Proph is a good lynch.
@Hunt-How likely do you think it is that Bloscovi is bussing Ghosting? I'd appreciate you having a look at their interactions. He seems very sure that Ghosting "knows" GJ isn't scum...to me that also seems to imply that Blos knows as well. Reading Blos seems like he is hard-bussing and Ghosting is trying to copy his AA meta.
@TappingStones
Bussing is a two way street.
Ghosting is very likely scum, yes, but I'm not bussing him.
Look at it both ways - both the way I'm treating him, and the way he's treating me. You're focusing on the former exclusively.
Scum never comes back to the game after being away, sees a buddy voting them with functionally being the only pressure on them, and reacts the way he has with a near single-minded fervor. They'd dismiss it, ignore it, or attack back hard.
He's doing some weird thing where he's obviously frustrated, but it feels like frustrated scum who was caught for the wrong (or no) reasons.
Check out post #629, and if you have the time/inclination, check out the game linked. One of the reasons I'm staying locked on Ghosting the way I am is how much he reminds me of Baramur, that I caught on day one of that game. The same kind of frustration over being caught, but for reasons they don't think are valid.
You'll also see Proph treating me the way he is this game, if that will help sort out your concerns with our interactions.
I don't like meta.
I didn't want to drag meta into this.
But Proph kind of ruined that by treating me like...me, instead of just a random player. So I guess meta is relevant to explain why.
I hear ya. The thing is I just got done playing with GHosting where he was getting run up in a similar manner and defended himself EXACTLY the same way. In Ace Attorney mafia, he was town and Meggido (who was scum) was tunneling him in a similar manner to you. So that's where I'm at. So I wouldn't mind if you would at least continue to engage with him so we can flesh this out. I caught onto Meggido and that might be why I'm quick to feel the same way about you. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't have my heart set on killing you, but I do want people to start fleshing out their arguments more.
I will check out that game, as I did with Twinborn when I checked out Proph. But you should really see what meggido and Tom did to Ghosting just pathetic tunneling on town.
Ghosting is not the lynch today unless something drastically new presents itself.
Bloscovi
Proph
Kraj
Cyrstal
Mato
These are the places I'm interested in working at the moment.
I'm down for a Ghosting lynch. I can see your earliest interactions with/about Ghosting as weak defenses in an attempt to be damage control and then increased your efforts on defense to make a stance of the situation and not make a scumslip. Waiting on more content from a select few which they will likely reach near deadline at this rate. I'm also going to look at the Mindreaver wagon/interactions but I'm not down for it based on some interactions I came across during this, particularly #160. But I'll need to take another look at how Ghosting's opinion developed toward Mindreaver.
Hey Brinatoo, am I right in saying this is your case:
1) One of Ghosting's first posts has "weak" reads (I disagree, but let's say they are weak). Have you read my recent reads, and the depth associated with them? How do you feel about them? What made you choose that specific post?
2) "Casual" language with TS. Are you also including my casual language towards...literally every other player.
3) Me thinking TS is town.
Let me know if I'm misinterpreting your "case", but all I'm seeing are incredibly weak reasons so you can hop on the Ghosting wagon.
That aside, I look forward to your thoughts on Mindreaver. And Seppel, do you have any thoughts about him?
A fair bit of my curiosity comes from the fact you've never mentioned me as scummy before that post. In fact, in post #57 you actually asked Proph how my posts feel crafted, because you weren't quite seeing it. So this is, as I'm sure you understand, a bit of a surprise.
1) Can you list three reasons you think I'm scum for me?
2) What makes you think I'm the most probable lynch? (You said this and I quoted you, so please answer it.)
3) What is your reason for Brinatoo? Fencesitting and saying "I have a reason but I won't tell anyone because...reasons" is benefiting town...how? I'm 99% sure you are saying you have a reason but actually don't.
(Fyi the probable part has no effect on my argument, because I'm arguing that you are pushing for my lynch over your two stronger scumreads because you think it's more likely due to the timing and votes already on me, etc.)
Look, I realize you're scummy, and that you seem to think I'm an easy target, but if you're going to characterize me as some scummy maniac who just wants to lynch obvtown instead of IABM, at least get my stances right.
I have never voted you. I was asked for t/s list, I gave one, you're on it. Near the top. NOT the scummiest, IMO, whom I'm already voting for BTW.
Then YOU asked for the thought process behind why I'd be happier lynching Kraj or you when I think IABM is worse for the game. I explained. You hate my thought process. But you won't answer my question about what should be done with IABM. Do we actually lynch him today? If so, lets end the damn day, since he's so flagrently unhelpful, I can't see how anyone wouldn't think he's the most suspect. Unless somebody can point to an IABM game where he's behaved like this as town.
I'm not pushing you ghosting. I have NEVER said that I wanted to lynch you with any more specificity than "I think Kraj or Ghosting is the way to go". Yet there are a few posts on this very page, where you say I want you over other people.
If anything, you've made assumptions and half-read me. My list has three groups of scumreads, not 5. Just because I listed Kraj first doesn't mean I find him more/less scummy. But you didn't ask for clarification, just kept going down the rabbit hole. IN FACT, you even say "Undeniably, at least Imab." because you KNOW that it isn't necessarily true that I thought you were more scummy than Kraj. That sentence to me means: "I'm still making this point, even though it's a dubious argument".
I'm not ignoring your "three reasons". I already did that in the t/s list, but at this point, I don't know how much I'm colored by OMGUS, and how much is you purposely crafting this exchange. I'll be re-reading you and Kraj and re-evaluating, because that's the best path I see right now.
Also, as far as Brinatoo, that last post was a lot better, and I feel much better about him. The thing I was watching was that most of his responses to be started with bewilderment (432, 508, 570, 686, 705). I thought it was a "verbal kent" type tell, where every time he was addressed negatively, he played weak, confused, and innocent (and granted, some of those could easily be just asking for clarification). Are you happy I revealed that now? Or would it have been better to let that play out and see if it continued.
Look, I realize you're scummy, and that you seem to think I'm an easy target, but if you're going to characterize me as some scummy maniac who just wants to lynch obvtown instead of IABM, at least get my stances right.
Is Seppel also scummy and voting you because you're an easy target? I can't remember if I already asked you, but I don't see a response if I did, so what do you think of Seppel currently?
I have never voted you. I was asked for t/s list, I gave one, you're on it. Near the top. NOT the scummiest, IMO, whom I'm already voting for BTW.
Right, you've never before thought I was scum, yet your one reference to me was in defense of me very early on. But all of a sudden, a wagon develops, and you jump on it with reasoning that "it provides good information". This is your T/S list:
The scum is strong with these ones:
Matowar77
imabusinessman
Hunger
But we get almost nothing from their flip either way, which leads me to:
Ghosting
Kraj
There are no reasons. I've asked you twice now to please provide three reasons that you think I'm scum. Can you please do it? Hoping third time's the charm.
Then YOU asked for the thought process behind why I'd be happier lynching Kraj or you when I think IABM is worse for the game. I explained. You hate my thought process. But you won't answer my question about what should be done with IABM. Do we actually lynch him today? If so, lets end the damn day, since he's so flagrently unhelpful, I can't see how anyone wouldn't think he's the most suspect. Unless somebody can point to an IABM game where he's behaved like this as town.
Anddddd we're going in circles. Again, the issue is that you want to lynch a player for information, even though there are two people you are reading more strongly as scum. That implies a comfort with a greater likelihood to lynch town, because of "information", when you could instead make a case for someone you think is more likely to be scum. Your information argument isn't very valid, because lynching imab would be a great lynch for us if imab is in fact scum, like you very strongly feel. If you want to lynch Imab, make a case, and maybe we'll do so.
I'm not pushing you ghosting. I have NEVER said that I wanted to lynch you with any more specificity than "I think Kraj or Ghosting is the way to go". Yet there are a few posts on this very page, where you say I want you over other people.
Yes, you are pushing me. Yes, you do want me lynched. Saying "Ghosting is the way to go" and "I'm happy lynching Ghosting", etc., that's wanting me lynched. Like literally that is what that directly implies. It's less of an implication even and more of a direct statement that you want me to be the lynch today.
If anything, you've made assumptions and half-read me. My list has three groups of scumreads, not 5. Just because I listed Kraj first doesn't mean I find him more/less scummy. But you didn't ask for clarification, just kept going down the rabbit hole. IN FACT, you even say "Undeniably, at least Imab." because you KNOW that it isn't necessarily true that I thought you were more scummy than Kraj. That sentence to me means: "I'm still making this point, even though it's a dubious argument".
This is a terrible argument and you are flailing. The fact I said "Undeniably, at least Imab" shows that I considered that possibility and accounted for it in relation to my argument; if I was just aimlessly going down a rabbit hole, I wouldn't have made that point. The sentence means "There's at LEAST one player you feel more strongly is scum", which is perfectly valid.
I'm not ignoring your "three reasons". I already did that in the t/s list, but at this point, I don't know how much I'm colored by OMGUS, and how much is you purposely crafting this exchange. I'll be re-reading you and Kraj and re-evaluating, because that's the best path I see right now.
Why are you lying again? There are exactly 0 reasons in your T/S list about me.
Also, as far as Brinatoo, that last post was a lot better, and I feel much better about him. The thing I was watching was that most of his responses to be started with bewilderment (432, 508, 570, 686, 705). I thought it was a "verbal kent" type tell, where every time he was addressed negatively, he played weak, confused, and innocent (and granted, some of those could easily be just asking for clarification). Are you happy I revealed that now? Or would it have been better to let that play out and see if it continued.
Yes, I'm very happy you revealed it, and I'll go ahead and look at those posts and see if I feel the way you do. It'll be more interesting to see if Brinatoo continues to play that way, or notes your awareness and changes. That would also be quite telling.
I am fairly confident you're scum though and am happy moving forward with your lynch, and your responses are only continuing to prove it to me.
Look, I realize you're scummy, and that you seem to think I'm an easy target, but if you're going to characterize me as some scummy maniac who just wants to lynch obvtown instead of IABM, at least get my stances right.
"I realize that you're scummy and seem to think I'm an easy target"
>Essentially ad hom and trying to reduce my argument to me just being scum. OMGUS.
"Characterize me as some scummy maniac"
>Nice hyperbole. Your use loaded language that is far from the reality of the situation is very telling.
"who just wants to lynch obvtown instead of IABM"
>Yes, because I'm saying you want to lynch obvtown. Again, nice exaggeration. My claim, which you very well know, is that you are saying you don't care that you think I'm less scummy than another player, because you value information. It is not that you are trying to lynch obvtown, and for you to misconstrue it as such is, yet again, very telling.
Hey Brinatoo, am I right in saying this is your case:
1) One of Ghosting's first posts has "weak" reads (I disagree, but let's say they are weak). Have you read my recent reads, and the depth associated with them? How do you feel about them? What made you choose that specific post?
2) "Casual" language with TS. Are you also including my casual language towards...literally every other player.
3) Me thinking TS is town.
Let me know if I'm misinterpreting your "case", but all I'm seeing are incredibly weak reasons so you can hop on the Ghosting wagon.
That aside, I look forward to your thoughts on Mindreaver. And Seppel, do you have any thoughts about him?
You have no explanation for your reads where you do call people town(aside from a really weak one on GJ earlier in the thread at that point) on 86 and evaluate your opinion on both mindreaver and TS without applying a label to them. With Mindreaver on that post you are curious for his voting pattern, but it feels implied you find it scummy and are awaiting more content. And on TS you say he's hard to read and find he reads very natural as town, but you quickly meta-cleared him soon after. I've read your recent reads but I'm looking at your early reads and the lack of depth, yes.
Specifically "Definitely man and old sport". The only other time you were casual in talking with someone was 702 towards silver. And I guess I should reclarify that I meant with the use of pronouns. Like a person higher in command being called Sir.
Because you found it difficult to read TS in 86 AND say he reads very natural as town then jumped on meta-clearing him. I briefly talk about 378/392 in the wall. I don't think there is anything to tell if it's genuine nor do I think it's a way to meta-clear like that. I don't remember who said their opinion, I'll have to reread to find who said that they thought Seppel was engaged/trying/reading but Seppel has on more than a few occasions forgot his own opinions and votes- which would mean he isn't reading the thread. Seppel is null to me.
A fair bit of my curiosity comes from the fact you've never mentioned me as scummy before that post. In fact, in post #57 you actually asked Proph how my posts feel crafted, because you weren't quite seeing it. So this is, as I'm sure you understand, a bit of a surprise.
I was asking him to state what he thought was crafted, and he did. "because you weren't quite seeing it" doesn't imply that I don't think his opinion on the matter is wrong, I'm just having him elaborate at the time so I can get a feel for his motives behind his case and a feel for what he presented- the crafted points. But since we are on the matter of implied messages, I did in 322 and was leaning towards scum then.
You have no explanation for your reads where you do call people town(aside from a really weak one on GJ earlier in the thread at that point) on 86 and evaluate your opinion on both mindreaver and TS without applying a label to them. With Mindreaver on that post you are curious for his voting pattern, but it feels implied you find it scummy and are awaiting more content. And on TS you say he's hard to read and find he reads very natural as town, but you quickly meta-cleared him soon after. I've read your recent reads but I'm looking at your early reads and the lack of depth, yes.
So my point is this: why are you using reads from my first 3 or 4 posts, which are just barely out of RVS? All town reads from since I've returned have included a wealth of references to quotes, paragraphs of description, etc. It's misleading and very a abnormal choice to craft your reason on reads from just after RVS.
Specifically "Definitely man and old sport". The only other time you were casual in talking with someone was 702 towards silver. And I guess I should reclarify that I meant with the use of pronouns. Like a person higher in command being called Sir.
Again, are you going to ignore that I've talked this way to everyone? I'm barely 21 and talk like it, and I talk like it to everyone. To single out my discussions with TS and claim that they're sooo telling, whilst ignoring that I've spoken this way to literally every player, is absolutely misleading and invalid. If you read my posts you can find probably 100 instances of casual speech, varying from lols, to mans, to casually worded phrases. It's how I talk, especially at night when I have free time.
Because you found it difficult to read TS in 86 AND say he reads very natural as town then jumped on meta-clearing him. I briefly talk about 378/392 in the wall. I don't think there is anything to tell if it's genuine nor do I think it's a way to meta-clear like that. I don't remember who said their opinion, I'll have to reread to find who said that they thought Seppel was engaged/trying/reading but Seppel has on more than a few occasions forgot his own opinions and votes- which would mean he isn't reading the thread. Seppel is null to me.
Nice try reducing my townread on TS to simply meta, but I've listed other reasons as well, including that his thought process on various points has matched mine, as well as how he defended me in the Blosc v. Ghosting spam. Additionally, I've provided further reasoning in my T/S list, iirc.
Seppel is null to you, but he's no reading the thread. Would you say that not reading the thread is inherently town, or scum? Fencesitting at this point is interesting, because you are well aware that there could be a wagon on Seppel, but could also not be. Out of interest, have you read my posts regarding Seppel's alignment? If not, I encourage you to, and to read Seppel's reaction to me thinking he's scum.
Can you expand your scumread on me beyond "casual language" and "reading TS as town"?
Additionally, TS and I have played I think 2 games together? 3 if you're including this one. As a result, we're definitely more likely to interact in a friendly manner. But again, I've interacted this way with literally everyone.
Definitely wanting to hear more from Matowar, GJ, TS, imab, Jobie, Hunt, Hunger, and not_a_gimmick (although he posted recently iirc). Feels like half the players are missing right now. :/
I also didn't say there were two people more scummy, but wanted you anyway.
When I proved that you did do that. You didn't respond to it in your most recent reply, and I'm just wondering why you said it when it's not true.
You haven't proved anything. You selectively read. I said IABM is more scummy than you and KRaj, but that I'd rather lynch one of the two of you. That's different than me saying "I want GHOSTING DEAD, SPECIFICALLY HIM, regardless of these other two which are also valid lynches".
Look, I realize you're scummy, and that you seem to think I'm an easy target, but if you're going to characterize me as some scummy maniac who just wants to lynch obvtown instead of IABM, at least get my stances right.
Is Seppel also scummy and voting you because you're an easy target? I can't remember if I already asked you, but I don't see a response if I did, so what do you think of Seppel currently?
Seppel's voted more than anyone, and he's not the one selectively misrepping. He doesn't like my thought process, yelled in caps and voted, didn't deliberately go after me selectively reading what I wrote.
I'm still townreading seppel, and I have no reason to doubt his claim.
I have never voted you. I was asked for t/s list, I gave one, you're on it. Near the top. NOT the scummiest, IMO, whom I'm already voting for BTW.
Right, you've never before thought I was scum, yet your one reference to me was in defense of me very early on. But all of a sudden, a wagon develops, and you jump on it with reasoning that "it provides good information". This is your T/S list:
I'll just stop you there. Go back further, to the actual t/s list I posted. The one with reasons. You probably will remember cause you hated them.
But this is also possibly you just pushing this narrative that I've somehow only got one view of this game, and it's those 5 reads. That's complete garbage.
There are no reasons. I've asked you twice now to please provide three reasons that you think I'm scum. Can you please do it? Hoping third time's the charm.
I'll make you a deal. You stop making posts that aren't true, that I have to correct, I'll answer your questions? Didn't I just say I was going to do a re-read?
Then YOU asked for the thought process behind why I'd be happier lynching Kraj or you when I think IABM is worse for the game. I explained. You hate my thought process. But you won't answer my question about what should be done with IABM. Do we actually lynch him today? If so, lets end the damn day, since he's so flagrently unhelpful, I can't see how anyone wouldn't think he's the most suspect. Unless somebody can point to an IABM game where he's behaved like this as town.
Anddddd we're going in circles. Again, the issue is that you want to lynch a player for information, even though there are two people you are reading more strongly as scum. That implies a comfort with a greater likelihood to lynch town, because of "information", when you could instead make a case for someone you think is more likely to be scum. Your information argument isn't very valid, because lynching imab would be a great lynch for us if imab is in fact scum, like you very strongly feel. If you want to lynch Imab, make a case, and maybe we'll do so.
Dodging the question. What is your opinion of IABM? Should he be the lynch today?
I'm not pushing you ghosting. I have NEVER said that I wanted to lynch you with any more specificity than "I think Kraj or Ghosting is the way to go". Yet there are a few posts on this very page, where you say I want you over other people.
Yes, you are pushing me. Yes, you do want me lynched. Saying "Ghosting is the way to go" and "I'm happy lynching Ghosting", etc., that's wanting me lynched. Like literally that is what that directly implies. It's less of an implication even and more of a direct statement that you want me to be the lynch today.
Quoting you, responding to you, is not pushing you. Show me the post where I said either of those sentences, and I'll self vote right now.
If anything, you've made assumptions and half-read me. My list has three groups of scumreads, not 5. Just because I listed Kraj first doesn't mean I find him more/less scummy. But you didn't ask for clarification, just kept going down the rabbit hole. IN FACT, you even say "Undeniably, at least Imab." because you KNOW that it isn't necessarily true that I thought you were more scummy than Kraj. That sentence to me means: "I'm still making this point, even though it's a dubious argument".
This is a terrible argument and you are flailing. The fact I said "Undeniably, at least Imab" shows that I considered that possibility and accounted for it in relation to my argument; if I was just aimlessly going down a rabbit hole, I wouldn't have made that point. The sentence means "There's at LEAST one player you feel more strongly is scum", which is perfectly valid.
But if you're so DEAD sure that I am reading "two other people" as more scum than you, who I am trying to "push", you don't say that sentence. You actually don't post this paragraph, and I think others will see that.
I'm not ignoring your "three reasons". I already did that in the t/s list, but at this point, I don't know how much I'm colored by OMGUS, and how much is you purposely crafting this exchange. I'll be re-reading you and Kraj and re-evaluating, because that's the best path I see right now.
Why are you lying again? There are exactly 0 reasons in your T/S list about me.
Again, you didn't scroll back far enough to the actual t/s list.
Also, as far as Brinatoo, that last post was a lot better, and I feel much better about him. The thing I was watching was that most of his responses to be started with bewilderment (432, 508, 570, 686, 705). I thought it was a "verbal kent" type tell, where every time he was addressed negatively, he played weak, confused, and innocent (and granted, some of those could easily be just asking for clarification). Are you happy I revealed that now? Or would it have been better to let that play out and see if it continued.
Yes, I'm very happy you revealed it, and I'll go ahead and look at those posts and see if I feel the way you do. It'll be more interesting to see if Brinatoo continues to play that way, or notes your awareness and changes. That would also be quite telling.
Definitely wanting to hear more from Matowar, GJ, TS, imab, Jobie, Hunt, Hunger, and not_a_gimmick (although he posted recently iirc). Feels like half the players are missing right now. :/
I'm around, but I have not read the quotewar going on yet.
Is there a specific reason you left others out of this? Such as Seppel, Proph, Kraj, etc?
You haven't proved anything. You selectively read. I said IABM is more scummy than you and KRaj, but that I'd rather lynch one of the two of you. That's different than me saying "I want GHOSTING DEAD, SPECIFICALLY HIM, regardless of these other two which are also valid lynches".
I'm still townreading seppel, and I have no reason to doubt his claim.
Really, you are? Because literally one post ago, you said:
Seppel is null to me.
Why the discrepancy?
I'll ask you again...Would you say that not reading the thread is inherently town, or scum?
I'll just stop you there. Go back further, to the actual t/s list I posted. The one with reasons. You probably will remember cause you hated them.
But this is also possibly you just pushing this narrative that I've somehow only got one view of this game, and it's those 5 reads. That's complete garbage.
Yes, it's totally just me trying to push some narrative. This is what your reasons were:
"Two of my townreads are reading him as scum, very little posting recently."
After reading that, do you understand why I'm asking you for reasons? Those "reasons" are long outdated and, even if they weren't, are also incredibly weak. Half the game has been posting very little, and your townreads reading someone as scum is literally just you barning them. For the fourth time, do you have any real reasons you think I'm scum? I just want three.
I'll make you a deal. You stop making posts that aren't true, that I have to correct, I'll answer your questions? Didn't I just say I was going to do a re-read?
To say my posts aren't true is a massive misrep when I've disproven a plethora or things you have now said. You're welcome to reread before answering me, but I want the questions answered eventually. Especially the one about me, since I fully believe it is you being opportunistic due to lack of reasons, timing, framing of responses and arguments, etc.
Like how you said you "aren't pushing me" and "didn't say you wanted me lynched", when we both know that's not true.
Dodging the question. What is your opinion of IABM? Should he be the lynch today?
I literally answered your question.
Here is what you asked:
Do we actually lynch him today?
Here is what I said, in response to your question:
If you want to lynch Imab, make a case, and maybe we'll do so.
So thanks for lying again, I love my responses having to be me proving you're making stuff up, or how manipulative your language is, etc. Also, stop deflecting onto Imab, it's sooooo obvious lol. Your eagerness to move the conversation to Imab's lynch is fairly transparent.
If you look at my T/S list, you'll also see my view of Imab.
And here's that mountain of reasoning!
imabusinessman - flagrantly unhelpful.
What a view! What invaluable insight!
Quoting you, responding to you, is not pushing you. Show me the post where I said either of those sentences, and I'll self vote right now.
Another instance of misrepresentation of the truth. You are not simply quoting me, and responding to me. You have blatantly, more than once, said that I should be today's lynch. That's where this all started, with you coming back and saying that. You've said it since then. I am genuinely curious how you are even trying to act like you don't want me lynched. You literally said earlier "I haven't said I wanted you lynched", when anyone can see that the opposite is undeniably the case. Your post history shows that.
But if you're so DEAD sure that I am reading "two other people" as more scum than you
Again, another misrep. In my original response, I said that you find at LEAST one person scummier than me, at most two. I clearly drew attention to the fact that it may just be Imab, so I am clearly no "so DEAD sure", and I have already had to clarify this for you.
Again, you didn't scroll back far enough to the actual t/s list.
I'm around, but I have not read the quotewar going on yet.
Is there a specific reason you left others out of this? Such as Seppel, Proph, Kraj, etc?
Thanks for letting me know you're here at least, I appreciate that. I didn't include them because Kraj just posted recently, and Seppel and Proph both have as well. I went down the list in the OP and picked out the names that stood out to me as not having posted in a bit.
Mindreaver: I have NEVER said that I wanted to lynch you with any more specificity than "I think Kraj or Ghosting is the way to go"
Me: Saying "Ghosting is the way to go" and "I'm happy lynching Ghosting", etc.
Mindreaver: Show me the post where I said either of those sentences, and I'll self vote right now.
So you literally say “Ghosting is the way to go”, I respond and say how you saying that is you saying you want me lynched, and you reply by saying “I’ve never said that”.
Patiently awaiting Mindreaver's "reread" where he comes to the realisation that I'm actually his scummiest read and he DOES want to lynch his scummiest read, so he's not scum anymore! I eagerly await the OMGUS.
I am still around. TS had a list of five people he was interested in, and I think all but mindreaver I was fine with. I really think he is a trap, and his wagon feels like it can't grip the wheels and someone is lubing it up.
I could of course be wrong, as he triggered my spidey senses earlier, but eh.
School is giving me an ass whooping, and I apologize for pretty much not posting. Having to remake complete curriculum for a whole year in a six week period is fricken brutal.
Yes, I'm leaning GJ's way. I feel like this Mindreaver wagon is pretty opportunistic.
Gonna post more tomorrow.
Have you read the recent responses by myself and Mindreaver? There's multiple instances of him lying, backtracking, misrepping, insults, using terrible logic, referring to things as evidence that aren't true or aren't evidence, etc. I feel that this is probably the most confident I've felt about a case in my history of playing. I know you've been busy though so maybe you haven't seen that.
I will laugh really hard though if you just named your team. Seems like a ballsy Seppel move to pull.
This is basically just a PTAP. Like, I've been reading along and some good things have been posted (mostly looking at you, silver), but I do not have anything to say. I find myself less invested now, as if I'm just a neutral third party.
I will edit my town block a little though.
matowar, tappingstones, bloscovi, seppel, silver, prophylaxis, huntzilla, jobie (in order of strength of my townread)
I have been putting kraj and brinatoo in there for quite some time based on their early interactions with tappingstones. But it occurs to me that thats the easiest sort of scum/town interaction to fake.
Kraj is just null now, but add brinatoo to the group* I wouldn't mind seeing a corpse of.
I might save a brinatoo push for another day, as I'm reasonably happy with a ghosting lynch and don't really have the desire to lead a counterwagon.
* that group now includes ghosting, mindreaver, hunger (i guess), forever and always businessman, and now brinatoo.
Can you explain the Jobie townread (I realize it's super light), as well as why Matowar is so solidly town? I've been kind of waffling back and forth on him so further clarity would be nice.
Jobie is an extremely light townread, somewhat based on seppel being town. He has been completely jokey/dismissive with seppel, who has him as a strong town read. I find it unlikely that scumjobie would take that line with (iirc) the only townie who feels strongly about him.
Matowar I've already talked about a bit. I'm completely sure he is genuinely trying to improve, and that just does not make any sense if this is his first scum game.
There are worlds where either could be scum. You can see how likely I think those worlds are based on where they are on my list.
...
I NAMED THEM ALL BUT ONE
First, if you want better explanations, my original t/s list is probably where you should check first.
Onto the questions!
1) Reads are for different reasons, so it's hard to put them in a strict order, but I'd say something along the lines of:
Less Scum
Matowar77
Hunger
...
Ghosting
Kraj
...
imabusinessman
More Scum
That's my preference right now. What did you hope to gain out of that? That I like IABM's game thus far the least out of anyone?
2) You can read it however you want, I'm not saying anything new here. I'm actually voting IABM right now, he's somebody I'd lynch today, yesterday, the day before. He's not helping, and what town mindset does this much WIFOM/unhelpful crap? But lets say it's all just him having fun, he's town, and we lynch him. What does that tell us? Nothing. Can we look on his wagon? Probably not, because lots of my townreads (and yours too btw) are saying they'd vig him if possible. How do we analyze that? Easy for scum to hide and say "he's unhelpful" when lots of town are saying it too. Now lets say he's scum instead. Yay, we're one step closer to winning, lets look for his partners... only the ONE person he's even talked to was seppel, about Sonic, the hedgehog. ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE, LYNCH THAT GUY. No? We're back to square one, but yeah, we're ahead one.
Instead, if I go to the next scum person on the list instead, say Kraj (there is a similar case for you as well), he's voted 3 times, and interacted with more people. There are things to chase down on a scum flip. On a town flip too, every person that voted for him, or listed him in a t/s list, is now re-evaluated. Who was opportunistic? Who's reasoning was shaky? Who knew too much? We use that information to find more scum.
Why is this such a foreign concept? That I'd rather lynch the best choice that gives us the best chance at winning? I don't understand what you and seppel are even trying to get at here. It's not like I'm advocating a lynch on a townread just for flip/interaction info, I'm talking specifically my top scumreads, and weighing the possible gains when deciding where my vote does the most good.
3) Well, for mato, IABM, and hunger; I don't think there is enough posts to say they'd be partners one way or another. I'd have to double check whether mato/hunger ever mentioned IABM, but I don't think so. You specifically left our your detailed read on Kraj, which I thought was suspicious. Kraj has never mentioned you, although he has mentioned your wagon, so he's aware of the votes on you and didn't have any specific concerns or questions. You're also left off of his t/s breakdown. So if I had to come up with a pair, I'd say Ghosting/Kraj is the most probable at this point, of those 5 names.
4) Yeah, probably not my strongest post. But I'm not sharing yet. Call it what you will, fence-sitting, or whatever, I'm not ready to go there. If it continues, I'll share.
When is it appropriate to lynch based solely on scumminess? Lylo? Wait until they're the only scum left? What if all the scum have close to no interactions (Matowar/Jobie/Kraj/IMAB team)?
As for not lynching me, there are people that have actually been scummy (Kraj and Matowar, for example) and have some small consensus regarding their scumminess.
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
Actually this does nothing to explain. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but I don't see why it's important for your partner to know who you are immediately. What's the risk? Why wouldn't it be way, way, way, better to wait until you were under pressure to claim? I would have totally called B.S. on not knowing your own alignment if other people hadn't apparently had the same problem. Which, in a Normal game, is completely absurd. But whatever. It is what it is.
I find it hilarious that everyone is quick to lament my 'horrible' vote on NAG and call me scum for it while agreeing with my logic and not bothering to say where or why it goes wrong, or even whether I'm wrong at all. I was well-aware the vote would be controversial; I'm not surprised no one agreed with me because the strength of the evidence isn't there, but I still think I'm right.
Fair question, but I had already considered the town motivation. My immediate reaction to NAG's claim was that James Bond is obvtown and he claimed either because he wanted the attention drawn to himself for some reason, or he literally claimed just "because it's awesome" (and it is). A neutral motivation is irrelevant because he thought he was town at the time.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
If he thought his lover was scum, he would want to out himself to his lover to ensure he doesn't draw the NK without claiming Lover because we might try to lynch him to get his lover.
Then GJ claimed neutral, of course.
Now, if NaG is scum, either he lied and GJ is scum with him (because GJ said Bond was his lover and then NaG confirmed he was lovers with Natalya) or he doubled his chances of being lynched because he dies if we lynch either him or GJ.
I don't think he was lying; he breadcrumbed lovers so hard for his five or six posts that I'm surprised no one picked up on it. "Lover's quarrel," etc.
While I have some suspicions about the true alignments of the lovers, I'm going to accept their neutral claim for at least Today. If the lovers are tragic, I think GJ is far more likely scum than NaG.
I might just be lashing out because that was an awful vote.
So, yeah. A name drop from the GoldenEye game isn't going to sell me on someone's alignment.
But like I said, I'm not looking at the lovers right now. They claimed neutral, neutral seems reasonable, and there's scum to hunt. If it seems worth visiting later, then I'll come back to it.
@Mindreaver: So...your replies said next to nothing new. Essentially, you still have two reads you think are more likely to be scum, and are still valuing information over lynching scum. Additionally, you're still hiding the reason you're fencesitting on Brinatoo, and I think it's because you don't actually have a reason. Also, what makes you think I'm the most probable lynch? Can you list three reasons you think I'm scum for me?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Essentially I feel like I've been put in charge of babysitting you. And it's not a pleasant feeling.
Also, you guys are asking my thought process, that's what I gave you. I'm not posting "new information" because that wasn't what your problem was with my original post. It wasn't "Where are your scumreads" it was "we don't understand why you'd think that way". So that's what I posted.
If you don't agree with my reads, say that. If you don't agree with why we should be looking at Kraj/Ghosting over Hunger/IABM/Mato, SAY WHY. But I'm not going to change my opinions if they only arguments I hear are about how stupid my conclusions are, when you aren't responding to how I arrived there, and not offering your own thought process. Is my process scummy? Should we all just push iamabusinesssman and not think too much about it? Is that the argument here?
Okay, lol.
"I'd say Ghosting/Kraj is the most probable at this point"
Your thought process is why we are questioning you. It's the fact that your thought process isn't aligning with a town perspective: if you are more confident that two people are scum than the person you're trying to lynch, and justifying that through "information gained", your thought process isn't town. That's what has been said.
Can you answer the questions I asked you?
1) Can you list three reasons you think I'm scum for me?
2) What makes you think I'm the most probable lynch? (You said this and I quoted you, so please answer it.)
3) What is your reason for Brinatoo? Fencesitting and saying "I have a reason but I won't tell anyone because...reasons" is benefiting town...how? I'm 99% sure you are saying you have a reason but actually don't.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I still would like you to list three reasons you think I'm scum, and also why you won't tell us the thing that Brinatoo is doing that is making you think he could be scum.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Essentially, I think "he didn't say he was town" is a really menial reason that should not even be considered when determining someone's alignment. An argument could be made that saying he was in fact town could be more likely to come from scum, so it's a totally moot point. You bringing it up and calling him scum in two posts, one referencing him not calling himself town as the reason, reads as highly suspect to me.
Which is why I'm saying it was a bad reaction. Town shouldn't get so blatantly frustrated at one other player suggesting they could be scum. It's an overreaction.
My paranoid is stupid and wasteful? My "paranoia" is scumhunting. It's not like it's out of nowhere, I have paragraphs with posts referenced and very legitimate points. If you are town, there are better responses than saying someone who is trying is wasting your time. This is another example of a reaction I do not see coming from town.
Yes, "babysit" me. As in, having to tell me you're not scum.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
So both imab and Kraj are listed as more scummy than me. Undeniably, at least Imab. This is in response to you saying:
You want me lynched today, and you did say two people are more scummy. Really recently too so idk why you would say this when I can just go back and copy your T/S list.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
As always, there's the chance I poke my nose in, but don't count on it.
When can we expect him to start participating again? It's been over a week since the suspension. Claims lean town for meta defending himself well/active , developing reads etc. but.... Ghosting didn't come up with any "reads" besides the GJ thing until here and it was baseless reads at that. Saying he was developing reads with only content like this is suspicious.
All relevant interactions, Ghosting meta-confirms TS as town. Flavor-theory crafting and also a bold statement from Ghosting saying he thinks everyone will read TS as town eventually.
More flavor/mod gaming and a bit of discussion about Proph/Kraj. TS states Ghosting is clearly town. Openly defending Ghosting and suspicious of anyone who claims a scumread on Ghosting with respect to his meta from a prior game. More metagaming. I think this is TS's worst post concerning meta-gaming considering he thinks Blos shouldn't consider Proph town if "he feels like town to me." This logic completely debunks TS's logic toward Ghosting because meta-gaming and townclearing for past game is along the same avenue as "he feels like town to me." Not exactly the same but feelings like this could be stemmed from past gaming. Still pushing Proph and critically evaluating his means to the Ghosting wagon. Still Ghosting invested. Oh the irony. Back to directly conversing with Ghosting, loose prod. Very casual/interpersonal response, I found it strange at first but idk about language tells per person/length into the day. Both sides casual/interpersonal now. First signs of this theory by him, I think of it as opening to abandoning ship on his meta-clear stance from before. Man, TS seems like a very genuine guy.... How is it genuine? He was defending you with meta in 378 then saying Proph is a good lynch. Weighing on Bussing theory with this. Back to original idea. I'm down for a Ghosting lynch. I can see your earliest interactions with/about Ghosting as weak defenses in an attempt to be damage control and then increased your efforts on defense to make a stance of the situation and not make a scumslip. Waiting on more content from a select few which they will likely reach near deadline at this rate. I'm also going to look at the Mindreaver wagon/interactions but I'm not down for it based on some interactions I came across during this, particularly #160. But I'll need to take another look at how Ghosting's opinion developed toward Mindreaver.
1) One of Ghosting's first posts has "weak" reads (I disagree, but let's say they are weak). Have you read my recent reads, and the depth associated with them? How do you feel about them? What made you choose that specific post?
2) "Casual" language with TS. Are you also including my casual language towards...literally every other player.
3) Me thinking TS is town.
Let me know if I'm misinterpreting your "case", but all I'm seeing are incredibly weak reasons so you can hop on the Ghosting wagon.
That aside, I look forward to your thoughts on Mindreaver. And Seppel, do you have any thoughts about him?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Look, I realize you're scummy, and that you seem to think I'm an easy target, but if you're going to characterize me as some scummy maniac who just wants to lynch obvtown instead of IABM, at least get my stances right.
I have never voted you. I was asked for t/s list, I gave one, you're on it. Near the top. NOT the scummiest, IMO, whom I'm already voting for BTW.
Then YOU asked for the thought process behind why I'd be happier lynching Kraj or you when I think IABM is worse for the game. I explained. You hate my thought process. But you won't answer my question about what should be done with IABM. Do we actually lynch him today? If so, lets end the damn day, since he's so flagrently unhelpful, I can't see how anyone wouldn't think he's the most suspect. Unless somebody can point to an IABM game where he's behaved like this as town.
I'm not pushing you ghosting. I have NEVER said that I wanted to lynch you with any more specificity than "I think Kraj or Ghosting is the way to go". Yet there are a few posts on this very page, where you say I want you over other people.
If anything, you've made assumptions and half-read me. My list has three groups of scumreads, not 5. Just because I listed Kraj first doesn't mean I find him more/less scummy. But you didn't ask for clarification, just kept going down the rabbit hole. IN FACT, you even say "Undeniably, at least Imab." because you KNOW that it isn't necessarily true that I thought you were more scummy than Kraj. That sentence to me means: "I'm still making this point, even though it's a dubious argument".
I'm not ignoring your "three reasons". I already did that in the t/s list, but at this point, I don't know how much I'm colored by OMGUS, and how much is you purposely crafting this exchange. I'll be re-reading you and Kraj and re-evaluating, because that's the best path I see right now.
Also, as far as Brinatoo, that last post was a lot better, and I feel much better about him. The thing I was watching was that most of his responses to be started with bewilderment (432, 508, 570, 686, 705). I thought it was a "verbal kent" type tell, where every time he was addressed negatively, he played weak, confused, and innocent (and granted, some of those could easily be just asking for clarification). Are you happy I revealed that now? Or would it have been better to let that play out and see if it continued.
When I proved that you did do that. You didn't respond to it in your most recent reply, and I'm just wondering why you said it when it's not true.
Is Seppel also scummy and voting you because you're an easy target? I can't remember if I already asked you, but I don't see a response if I did, so what do you think of Seppel currently?
Right, you've never before thought I was scum, yet your one reference to me was in defense of me very early on. But all of a sudden, a wagon develops, and you jump on it with reasoning that "it provides good information". This is your T/S list:
There are no reasons. I've asked you twice now to please provide three reasons that you think I'm scum. Can you please do it? Hoping third time's the charm.
Anddddd we're going in circles. Again, the issue is that you want to lynch a player for information, even though there are two people you are reading more strongly as scum. That implies a comfort with a greater likelihood to lynch town, because of "information", when you could instead make a case for someone you think is more likely to be scum. Your information argument isn't very valid, because lynching imab would be a great lynch for us if imab is in fact scum, like you very strongly feel. If you want to lynch Imab, make a case, and maybe we'll do so.
Yes, you are pushing me. Yes, you do want me lynched. Saying "Ghosting is the way to go" and "I'm happy lynching Ghosting", etc., that's wanting me lynched. Like literally that is what that directly implies. It's less of an implication even and more of a direct statement that you want me to be the lynch today.
This is a terrible argument and you are flailing. The fact I said "Undeniably, at least Imab" shows that I considered that possibility and accounted for it in relation to my argument; if I was just aimlessly going down a rabbit hole, I wouldn't have made that point. The sentence means "There's at LEAST one player you feel more strongly is scum", which is perfectly valid.
Why are you lying again? There are exactly 0 reasons in your T/S list about me.
Yes, I'm very happy you revealed it, and I'll go ahead and look at those posts and see if I feel the way you do. It'll be more interesting to see if Brinatoo continues to play that way, or notes your awareness and changes. That would also be quite telling.
I am fairly confident you're scum though and am happy moving forward with your lynch, and your responses are only continuing to prove it to me.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
"I realize that you're scummy and seem to think I'm an easy target"
>Essentially ad hom and trying to reduce my argument to me just being scum. OMGUS.
"Characterize me as some scummy maniac"
>Nice hyperbole. Your use loaded language that is far from the reality of the situation is very telling.
"who just wants to lynch obvtown instead of IABM"
>Yes, because I'm saying you want to lynch obvtown. Again, nice exaggeration. My claim, which you very well know, is that you are saying you don't care that you think I'm less scummy than another player, because you value information. It is not that you are trying to lynch obvtown, and for you to misconstrue it as such is, yet again, very telling.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Specifically "Definitely man and old sport". The only other time you were casual in talking with someone was 702 towards silver. And I guess I should reclarify that I meant with the use of pronouns. Like a person higher in command being called Sir.
Because you found it difficult to read TS in 86 AND say he reads very natural as town then jumped on meta-clearing him. I briefly talk about 378/392 in the wall. I don't think there is anything to tell if it's genuine nor do I think it's a way to meta-clear like that. I don't remember who said their opinion, I'll have to reread to find who said that they thought Seppel was engaged/trying/reading but Seppel has on more than a few occasions forgot his own opinions and votes- which would mean he isn't reading the thread. Seppel is null to me.
I was asking him to state what he thought was crafted, and he did. "because you weren't quite seeing it" doesn't imply that I don't think his opinion on the matter is wrong, I'm just having him elaborate at the time so I can get a feel for his motives behind his case and a feel for what he presented- the crafted points. But since we are on the matter of implied messages, I did in 322 and was leaning towards scum then.
So my point is this: why are you using reads from my first 3 or 4 posts, which are just barely out of RVS? All town reads from since I've returned have included a wealth of references to quotes, paragraphs of description, etc. It's misleading and very a abnormal choice to craft your reason on reads from just after RVS.
Again, are you going to ignore that I've talked this way to everyone? I'm barely 21 and talk like it, and I talk like it to everyone. To single out my discussions with TS and claim that they're sooo telling, whilst ignoring that I've spoken this way to literally every player, is absolutely misleading and invalid. If you read my posts you can find probably 100 instances of casual speech, varying from lols, to mans, to casually worded phrases. It's how I talk, especially at night when I have free time.
Nice try reducing my townread on TS to simply meta, but I've listed other reasons as well, including that his thought process on various points has matched mine, as well as how he defended me in the Blosc v. Ghosting spam. Additionally, I've provided further reasoning in my T/S list, iirc.
Seppel is null to you, but he's no reading the thread. Would you say that not reading the thread is inherently town, or scum? Fencesitting at this point is interesting, because you are well aware that there could be a wagon on Seppel, but could also not be. Out of interest, have you read my posts regarding Seppel's alignment? If not, I encourage you to, and to read Seppel's reaction to me thinking he's scum.
Can you expand your scumread on me beyond "casual language" and "reading TS as town"?
Any read on Mindreaver?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
n0 wut i mean m4n?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
You haven't proved anything. You selectively read. I said IABM is more scummy than you and KRaj, but that I'd rather lynch one of the two of you. That's different than me saying "I want GHOSTING DEAD, SPECIFICALLY HIM, regardless of these other two which are also valid lynches".
Go look, it's right there.
Seppel's voted more than anyone, and he's not the one selectively misrepping. He doesn't like my thought process, yelled in caps and voted, didn't deliberately go after me selectively reading what I wrote.
I'm still townreading seppel, and I have no reason to doubt his claim.
I'll just stop you there. Go back further, to the actual t/s list I posted. The one with reasons. You probably will remember cause you hated them.
But this is also possibly you just pushing this narrative that I've somehow only got one view of this game, and it's those 5 reads. That's complete garbage.
I'll make you a deal. You stop making posts that aren't true, that I have to correct, I'll answer your questions? Didn't I just say I was going to do a re-read?
Dodging the question. What is your opinion of IABM? Should he be the lynch today?
Quoting you, responding to you, is not pushing you. Show me the post where I said either of those sentences, and I'll self vote right now.
But if you're so DEAD sure that I am reading "two other people" as more scum than you, who I am trying to "push", you don't say that sentence. You actually don't post this paragraph, and I think others will see that.
Again, you didn't scroll back far enough to the actual t/s list.
Fair enough
Good thing we need other people to also read this and decide which of us is accurately describing the situation.
Is there a specific reason you left others out of this? Such as Seppel, Proph, Kraj, etc?
Really, you are? Because literally one post ago, you said:
Why the discrepancy?
I'll ask you again...Would you say that not reading the thread is inherently town, or scum?
Yes, it's totally just me trying to push some narrative. This is what your reasons were:
"Two of my townreads are reading him as scum, very little posting recently."
After reading that, do you understand why I'm asking you for reasons? Those "reasons" are long outdated and, even if they weren't, are also incredibly weak. Half the game has been posting very little, and your townreads reading someone as scum is literally just you barning them. For the fourth time, do you have any real reasons you think I'm scum? I just want three.
To say my posts aren't true is a massive misrep when I've disproven a plethora or things you have now said. You're welcome to reread before answering me, but I want the questions answered eventually. Especially the one about me, since I fully believe it is you being opportunistic due to lack of reasons, timing, framing of responses and arguments, etc.
Like how you said you "aren't pushing me" and "didn't say you wanted me lynched", when we both know that's not true.
I literally answered your question.
Here is what you asked:
Here is what I said, in response to your question:
So thanks for lying again, I love my responses having to be me proving you're making stuff up, or how manipulative your language is, etc. Also, stop deflecting onto Imab, it's sooooo obvious lol. Your eagerness to move the conversation to Imab's lynch is fairly transparent.
And here's that mountain of reasoning!
What a view! What invaluable insight!
Another instance of misrepresentation of the truth. You are not simply quoting me, and responding to me. You have blatantly, more than once, said that I should be today's lynch. That's where this all started, with you coming back and saying that. You've said it since then. I am genuinely curious how you are even trying to act like you don't want me lynched. You literally said earlier "I haven't said I wanted you lynched", when anyone can see that the opposite is undeniably the case. Your post history shows that.
Again, another misrep. In my original response, I said that you find at LEAST one person scummier than me, at most two. I clearly drew attention to the fact that it may just be Imab, so I am clearly no "so DEAD sure", and I have already had to clarify this for you.
I've explained this already, but thanks.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Thanks for letting me know you're here at least, I appreciate that. I didn't include them because Kraj just posted recently, and Seppel and Proph both have as well. I went down the list in the OP and picked out the names that stood out to me as not having posted in a bit.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mindreaver: I have NEVER said that I wanted to lynch you with any more specificity than "I think Kraj or Ghosting is the way to go"
Me: Saying "Ghosting is the way to go" and "I'm happy lynching Ghosting", etc.
Mindreaver: Show me the post where I said either of those sentences, and I'll self vote right now.
So you literally say “Ghosting is the way to go”, I respond and say how you saying that is you saying you want me lynched, and you reply by saying “I’ve never said that”.
I…I just don’t know how this is happening. Lol.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I could of course be wrong, as he triggered my spidey senses earlier, but eh.
School is giving me an ass whooping, and I apologize for pretty much not posting. Having to remake complete curriculum for a whole year in a six week period is fricken brutal.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Gonna post more tomorrow.
Have you read the recent responses by myself and Mindreaver? There's multiple instances of him lying, backtracking, misrepping, insults, using terrible logic, referring to things as evidence that aren't true or aren't evidence, etc. I feel that this is probably the most confident I've felt about a case in my history of playing. I know you've been busy though so maybe you haven't seen that.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
And on that note, unvote, vote Brinatoo because in a game of 18 players, you're going to attack me for forgetting a read or two? Get out.