Time for that stretch of limited/no access to actually start now, unfortunately.
I might still be able to poke my nose in through the next day or two, because I'm terrible at being responsible and allocating my time to things I should be allocating it to, over mafia.
So are you going to respond to what I said, or completely ignore it?
You have made up points against me, vastly misconstrued me, and refused to elaborate on your views when asked for proof. Additionally, you have refused to discuss and demonstrated that you are not willing to even listen to a response I have. Can you explain how that possibly comes from a town mindset, or is asking for a reply too much?
I want you to respond for many reasons. You can't just make illegitimate points or not engage in conversation when I'm asking for elaborations and proof. When you build a case, if it's a legitimate one and not just like Iso, Megiddo, etc.'s cases on me in Ace Attorney, you need to respond. Like simply handwaving when I made real points and am asking for genuine discussion is pointing huge red flags in your direction.
I might be reading this very superficially, but you stated that you were against reads without reasoning, then when I asked you what your views of the gamestate was you pulled out.. reads without reasoning. Can you clarify that?
Yeah, no problem.
I had already explained my reasons for thinking these people are town earlier (you can check back to see this as well). I said Mato sounds like he did in Ace where he was town, GJ I explained in more than one post in decent detail, and I said I think you're town with reasons as well in an earlier post. I actually read my earlier posts to make that post, so that's how I know I for sure did lol.
Also, I had very few reads and very little material to work with to determine reads, so I was working with what I have.
Keep the questions coming though, it really helps me feel like I'm a part of the game lol. After not reading or playing for so long I came back in having no idea what's up. I still feel that way, but I'm working on my reread, so it's getting better.
I promise I won't stick to this habit of posting a bunch of times in a row, sorry guys. When I play, I'm typically also doing homework or other stuff so I'll read a post, reply, then do that again. But I'll do my best not to in the future.
Anyway, my vote's going on Bloscovi. His case against me is horrible, as I've explained, and he's refused to acknowledge my questions or engage in conversation with me. I'm not giving him any reason not to (like I'm not just insulting him or not asking questions, I'm being pretty nice and just asking for a few simple things, as well as wonder why he had to misrep me). Town doesn't think and act like that. Megs and Iso specifically, as scum, recently acted like that. I can't reconcile how town could behave and think in that manner, if someone I think is scum is defending themselves, that's awesome. If they're engaging in genuine conversation and questioning my argument, I'd want to make sure my argument was proven solid by responding and all that. Like why would you not be like, sure Ghosting, these posts are why you're scum, and here's why. Or why would you say "No I'm not going to talk to you, I don't care, I'm ignoring anything you ask or say".
@Ghosting-I think I mentioned I wanted T/S list with reasoning.
Are you going to provide that?
Definitely man, as I said I'm just in the process of rereading, and answering questions as I complete the reread. I'm also finishing a lab report for my physics class tonight so that is prioritised, although I am obviously playing a bit right now.
@Ghosting-I think I mentioned I wanted T/S list with reasoning.
Are you going to provide that?
Definitely man, as I said I'm just in the process of rereading, and answering questions as I complete the reread. I'm also finishing a lab report for my physics class tonight so that is prioritised, although I am obviously playing a bit right now.
Well I would think you could play a little hooky to help us clarify your role in this game old sport.
2) Is my wagon better than the earlier ones on TappingStones and Mindreaver?
3) Who's your top scum read?
It'd be cool if you gave us a T/S list, too.
1. Will have to read it carefully, but I thought your vote on Seppel was for a better reason than his vote on you.
2. Define "better". But considering those two wagons are the ones I was on, probably not.
3. Seeing as how I'm voting Mindreaver... That said:
So early on NAG comes out and claims James Bond and TS in particular doesn't understand why a Townie would do such a thing. Possible reasons other than " because its awesome" are pure speculation, but what is certain is that NAG does not fear a mafia NK.
Then GJ, whom I and several others read as town and (iirc) was under no pressure, claims neutral lover w NAG. I believe him. Notably, he assumes NAG is also neutral, meaning Iso intentionally did not confirm the lover's alignments to each other. Unless I missed it, GJ did not claim his role name, but when someone said Natalya he didn't deny.
Seppel then claims Boris, a character that flavor-wise should obviously be mafia. Again, he does this unprompted and his reasoning makes sense, and I'm inclined to believe him.
The role PM 'fiasco' further reinforces that the mod is blurring alignment lines.
I am a Siberian Guard and am vanilla town, though I do have an item. Flavor-wise my expectation for a Russian guard would be mafia goon.
So we have an obvmafia character as town, a generic bad guy as town, an obvtown character as neutral lover with an ambiguously aligned James Bond as a partner.
So why would James Bond claim during RVS without fear of a mafia NK? Because the mafia know from their collective roles that alignments don't all match flavor, but NAG assumed we would never lynch James Bond, especially with lover status.
unvote, vote: not a gimmick
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The Golden Rule of forums: If you're going to be rude, be right. If you might be wrong, be polite.
2) Is my wagon better than the earlier ones on TappingStones and Mindreaver?
3) Who's your top scum read?
It'd be cool if you gave us a T/S list, too.
1. Will have to read it carefully, but I thought your vote on Seppel was for a better reason than his vote on you.
2. Define "better". But considering those two wagons are the ones I was on, probably not.
3. Seeing as how I'm voting Mindreaver... That said:
So early on NAG comes out and claims James Bond and TS in particular doesn't understand why a Townie would do such a thing. Possible reasons other than " because its awesome" are pure speculation, but what is certain is that NAG does not fear a mafia NK.
Then GJ, whom I and several others read as town and (iirc) was under no pressure, claims neutral lover w NAG. I believe him. Notably, he assumes NAG is also neutral, meaning Iso intentionally did not confirm the lover's alignments to each other. Unless I missed it, GJ did not claim his role name, but when someone said Natalya he didn't deny.
Seppel then claims Boris, a character that flavor-wise should obviously be mafia. Again, he does this unprompted and his reasoning makes sense, and I'm inclined to believe him.
The role PM 'fiasco' further reinforces that the mod is blurring alignment lines.
I am a Siberian Guard and am vanilla town, though I do have an item. Flavor-wise my expectation for a Russian guard would be mafia goon.
So we have an obvmafia character as town, a generic bad guy as town, an obvtown character as neutral lover with an ambiguously aligned James Bond as a partner.
So why would James Bond claim during RVS without fear of a mafia NK? Because the mafia know from their collective roles that alignments don't all match flavor, but NAG assumed we would never lynch James Bond, especially with lover status.
unvote, vote: not a gimmick
So in reality my questioning that was mercilessly ridiculed as scummy and fishing comes full circle. Nice to be validated. I do wish some of you were quicker on the take though. Like why did people have to argue over this for 20 pages, only Hunt agreed with my original questioning outside of this.
Due to some personal stuff I had to bail out last minute on my camping trip so I am around, but on a related note will have family in town Friday evening and Saturday so will be mostly unavailable still.
@Ghosting - I went back and read your posts and the only one you mentioned a town read on before the post in question was GJ. The rest of your reads in that post were never explained upon before. Most of your other posts were actually just you defending yourself against questions and not really talking about your reads at all.
So how does that mesh?
@GJ - Yeah, there is no reason for scum to shoot you I guess from a numbers perspective assuming you two don't count towards control of the vote. However, if you guys are telling the truth, it's still the classic survivor conundrum of you need to be scumhunting enough for town to not want you out of the way, but you can't actually do it too well and get scum lynched or the scum way just want to clear you out of the way. There will be a point in this game most likely where at least one of the teams would be better off without your presence.
On top of that, I don't believe you are being entirely truthful. I don't think James Bond in a Bond-themed game is simply a lover/survivor with no other bearing on the game. So I think there is going to be a point in this game where we need to reassess what your impact on the game is. If I'm not around at that point in the game I hope others will not continue to write you guys off as non-threats that never need to be given a second thought. You are openly not town that can win with scum you say, which means we can only trust you up until we can't and that's a dangerous game to play. Like, if we miss scum for 3 days and are way behind, you suddenly become a threat as survivors because it's in your best interest to just help scum end the game ASAP.
@Seppel - That's a cute read on me. Explain how Bloscovi being "The heart of the role PM outing" makes him have to be town? Also, do you honestly think I am the type of player that, as scum, would be the one to randomly bring this issue up without knowing whether or not Town appeared in anyones pms? What do you think I have to gain there if I guess right and what do you think the outcome is if I guess wrong?
I agree with this statement; his play is genuine, remarkably similar to Ace Attorney where he flipped town, and his response to my interpretation of his post was natural and didn't show any paranoia or anything, also didn't attack me in response.
But, if you must know, his intro post came off way too politely. Almost kind of like yours...
Interesting choice of words here, lol. "Almost kind of like". That's three different descriptions of how somewhat similar to Hardwood's intro post. Is it just not similar enough, but you want to still be able to cast suspicion as you very directly are?
I have been finding that scum typically come off more politely than town some of the time, myself included. I wanted to poke the bear a little bit, and see what happened
I'm just going to start out with a flavor claim because I'm James ******* Bond and that's awesome.
vote: gentleman johnny for getting serious
Well.........*****.
Unvote.
As if we could leave the defense of Mother R, eh, I mean the Great British Nation to those Yankees (In America)!
I am a most loyal subject to both the Crown and God, dear Sir.
You bastard, that's MY SCHTICK, in pretty much every game I play (accept mafia). Get back in line, peasant.
Quote from Proph »
GJ: What's your reasoning for the read on Hardwood?
Don't worry Proph. Just a bit of a lover's quarrel.
But, if you must know, his intro post came off way too politely. Almost kind of like yours...
My question is: Did GJ actually have enough content that you could reasonably say "his play is remarkably similar to Ace Attorney"?
Bloscovi and Proph say no.
I'm inclined to agree with them, but I wanted you to have a chance to get caught up so you had a chance to defend yourself. Seppel and Tapping seem to think your meta clears you. I'm not sure one way or the other, and my town/lean town reads are split down the middle on it.
If it isn't you or Hunger, I'll be shocked but it's not the end of the world. Hopefully Kraj comes back and Jobie makes an actual post soon.
after reading through Ghosting vs. Blos I keep coming back to the idea of Blos hard bussing. Is that a thing? He really put the gas on Ghosting from the word go and hasn't let up. The latest post really made me stop and think about it. I considered "He just said he isn't moving his vote until Ghosting is dead. That's pretty extreme. But he has invested a big attack on Ghosting. IF it's bussing he gets nothing out of it until Ghosting flips. Then he gets the 'See I was right all along' cred. One of his other points that he's brought up multiple times is that 'no scum is on the wagon', well, unless that scum is you and town wants no part of it. In fact IF Blos is scum and Proph is town, Proph already said he's just /barn what Blos case is. This could literally be one scum player trying to nail Ghosting"
Ok, now someone tell me I'm crazt for thinking about all that, but it's bothering me.
My opinion of Kraj has tanked to the point that I will jump on his wagon. I was with him all the way until he tried to throw suspicion onto NAG. Like, what? Kraj you're smarter than that.
Hunger continues to be scum.
Based on Kraj's roleclaim, I would appreciate it if everyone would claim their roles. There's one obscure one in particular that I personally know Iso loved playing as in multi-player.
I was actually thinking about that when I was updating my T/S list a minute ago... I moved Blos to lean town because he's been tunneled literally all game on Ghosting, and that would be really dangerous for scum if Ghosting is town. But what if he's been bussing all game? That's sort of dangerous in it's own right, but not nearly as dangerous as it would be if Ghosting is town.
So, I've been thinking about it too and I can't honestly say you're crazy.
He even said earlier he's well-known for hard bussing day one and two because people who know his meta know he's scum if he tries for a mislynch.
And he's a gimmick who's main is apparently well-known.
Plus he said he would kill Proph if he got lazy (#514). Threatening to bus him too? Scum slip and threatening him with the NK? Banter between old buddies?
Something is really fishy here but I can't put my finger on it.
Seriously though, do you guys not realize why I actually claimed now?
I wasn't going to claim the lovers part, but I wanted my other half to know who I was.
Maybe I would have if I had realized I wasn't town.
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Curiosity killed the cat. But for awhile, I was a suspect.
My flavor is also Russian, but not JANUS affiliated. I don't think we can count on flavor gaming here.
Or we can and all the Russians are town and the Americans are scum and Mato outed himself with his attempt at RP'ing. And if Mato is scum, I think there is a chance Bloscovi is covering for him by trying to downplay the actual relevance of his roleplay.
I also didn't love Mato's prod response. Reads as though he very intentionally is actively lurking.
I think all town being Russian is a bit too easy though.
To claim a bit more, I am Xenia. I left Janus after I realized he was only using me to get the Key and after falling for Bond's charm I agreed to lend my survival knowledge to his cause.
So, Seppel and I are both former Janus agents that are difficult to kill. I can't decide if that creates a dichotomy and he just has to be scum or if that's a flavor trap given the fact that items can change hands and most likely be stolen. I'm actually leaning towards the latter especially considering I have been reading Seppel as town.
Why are we diving into the morass of flavor gaming?
@Silvercrys: I don't think it's useful to determine Bloscovi's alignment currently. He definitely can be wrong at some point if he's town, and he will bus his own buddies if he's scum. If he is town, though, then he will probably lead us on to victory, since he is probably the best mafia player I've ever come across. If he is scum, though, then he will bus his buddies at some point, and then later game we can examine/re-evaluate his play more closely. But on Day 1? I'm trusting him automatically.
No Read
Ghosting
Brinatoo
Mindreaver
Hunger
imabusinessman
Lean Scum
Matowar77
Probably Scum
Bloscovi
Claimed Neutrals
Gentleman Johnny
not_a_gimmick
Lurking
Kraj
Jobie
Changes from last T/S
--- not_a_gimmick claimed neutral.
--- Bloscovi - see my #562, #565 & TappingStones' #559. His claim ("good guy" VT) doesn't sit well with me either. If he's that experienced I'm not sure an accidental full claim slips out that easily.
--- Matowar77 - If he's town, he's not helping. Seems to be actively lurking and posting random comments on current events full of emoticons. If he's town, he needs to at least post a reasoned T/S list or something.
--- Moved Ghosting and Hunger to no read from lurking.
--- Huntzilla - read him in iso. Asking good questions and seems to be scum hunting.
@Hunger - Interesting thought. The OP made me think that the scum team was current JANUS agents though. But then it is an Iso game. Bah. I'm gonna stick to behavior but that might be worth pursuing if we end up in a mass-claim.
@Proph:
I think that ship sailed. He probably knows bussing his buddies won't do him or them any good now.
Hell, if I were him, I'd try to get lynched so I don't reflexively bus my team.
Unless he just wants town to win even though he's scum. That might explain some things. He hates playing scum, only signed up to help Iso get enough players, is playing on a gimmick but admits to bussing heavily on his main...
I'm vaguely uncomfortable voting Ghosting when he's barely posted anything and he doesn't seem particularly scummy.
Unvote
Vote: Matowar77
@Matowar:
Give us a T/S list or something at least.
Tapping's ego makes me want to vomit. Blaming us for being slow to the take and not mod/flavor gaming? I don't get his logic at all. #556 makes me think he could have known more about it than the rest of us. Still- inflated ego regardless.
Russian Scientist here.
@Proph: Could you please get to reading me? I'd like to converse with whatever Blos has for me sooner than later.
@Jobie: Hopefully people will want to join my Normal once my turn is up I'll have a vote for what the lobby would want me to do and Overwatch is among those choices. Awaiting your reads/catchup.
But his self-interested, single-minded focus on defense does not come from town who hasn't caught up.
"Self-interested, single-minded focus on defense"? Any defense against calling anyone scum is going to be "self-interested" and "single-minded". Not only is that unbelievably loaded language and an intentionally manipulative choice of words, but I literally can only defend my previous actions until I am caught up. I am in the process of catching up, as I've said, and have tried to create a very open communication with you that you are refusing to respond to.
The accusation of misrepresentation is false. I've been explicit in why I think he is scum throughout the game.
It's literally not, and you still won't answer my questions. Respond to what I've said. Why are you so afraid of it? If you're so sure, you should have no problem elaborating, referencing quotes as examples, and refuting my points. As town, you should want to respond so you can prove me wrong.
I am in physics so will continue to catch up after that, but seriously Blosc, if you're town, start acting like it. Your mindset and headstrong attitude are in no way reflective of a townie.
I will talk with you about your reads or my reads on other players.
I will not talk with you about why you are scum, because I have no interest in any line of defense you'd try to give.
The case is literally: I don't think there is sufficient content for you to have the town read you did on GJ, for the reasons you gave.
This is only possible if you are scum, and know GJ is not scum.
The manner that you agreed with my reason-less town read feels like you knew I was town that identified a town correctly, and kind of awkwardly hopped on the 'Yep, GJ sure is town, nice catch!' bandwagon.
The fact that you later state that you hate reads without reasoning makes it hard for me to reconcile this behavior, because my initial town read on GJ had zero reasoning. If this is behavior you find scummy, I think Town!You tries to figure out my alignment in some form, rather than talking to me like I'm town with a correct read.
Your singleminded focus on defense, when there's functionally nothing to defend against, makes me convinced you are scum. The only line you have to take is to attack me and try to discredit me, which, well, you did!
This is the last I'll address my read on you, because it just serves no purpose to do so. I'm not going to convince you that you're scum, and you the reason I think you're scum means you can't really defend against it.
The way to 'defend' is to actively scumhunt, and try to figure out the game, and show that you're town - which you are not doing. You're self-centric in a way that town rarely is.
Trying to flavor game an Iso setup will only end poorly.
Can you tell us how you know town are not all Russians? You're welcome to say we shouldn't flavour game, but if you don't objectively know that, then it's just as speculative as claiming all town are.
@Silver - How am I only in your no read pool and how is Ghosting now not really someone you want to vote when you just said you would be, "shocked," if one of us isn't scum?
Can you please respond to my points? I asked a lot of questions and am seeking an amount of clarification that really does require your response. There's no reason we can't talk, you're just trying to have my points buried so you can hope to push my wagon while ignoring me picking your case apart.
If you think what I'm saying is wrong, prove it by replying to me.
Anyway, I'm exclusively catching up now, so next post will be something bigger.
I'm not asking to serve your interest in what I'm saying, I'm asking because I 1) will respond to what you say, and 2) want you to have to be held responsible for providing evidence and elaboration of your points. You can't just say "oh I read it as scummy", but not show me a post with an example and show how it's scummy.
I see you replied, but not specifically to what I was asking, and you've still missed some questions. I want you to answer those.
Can you explain a town mindset who would shut down another player trying to communicate? Why would you not be open to someone explaining their views if that could make you see them as town? Your job isn't to see how much you can convince yourself I'm scum, it's to be genuinely convinced after analysing data without tunnel vision and with an actual desire to catch scum.
Additionally, if responding to me makes your case more solid, don't you want that?
At this point though I see it's futile to argue with Bloscovi, and I really hope people take a look and see how he's acting. I'm just going to finish my reread and see what I get out of that. No point clogging the thread with the back and forth that's going nowhere, however, I would like if every one kept my response to him in mind and how easily his case was broken apart as well as his attitude in response to my very polite request for discussion with him.
@Hunger:
My thought process follows directly from my answer to Bloscovi's "Which three would you shoot" question (You, Ghosting, and someone at random) and my answer to your other question about why I thought you were more likely to be scum than Kraj and Jobie.
1) Scum is hiding in the people who haven't posted much. (Essentially: Hunger, Ghosting, Jobie, Kraj, IABM)
2) Of those 5, I'm assuming at least one is scum.
3) Hunger, Ghosting together have a 40% (2/5) of flipping scum.
4) I would be shocked if one of Hunger or Ghosting didn't flip scum.
Of course, statistically that's true of any pair from those five. I chose you and Ghosting based on a gut feeling I had that you two had a higher chance than the other three of containing one scum.
Then,
5) Hunger is posting more, and his posts so far are decently strong.
5a) Hunger is less likely to be scum than before -> no read until I see more.
6) Ghosting still hasn't posted much, but is posting more now.
6a) Ghosting is less likely to be scum than before -> no read until I see more.
Statistically, it seemed likely one of you would flip scum so I would be "shocked" if one of you didn't. One of you could still flip scum, anyway. But I prefer to vote/lynch based on behavior not sheer statistics, so I was waiting for you both to get back. Now you're both null, though I'm starting to lean scum on Ghosting. I don't like the way he's so tunneled on defending himself from Blos even though his wagon is almost non-existent. He's probably in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario there because if he just leaves it Blos is going to keep pushing him anyway.
Now Matowar is actively lurking, Jobie hasn't made a real catch-up post yet, and I haven't gotten a chance to really analyze Kraj.
My notes, if necessary I can organise them into more coherent thoughts, I'll have a T/D list momentarily, 10% battery and in physics lab rn lol.
Hunger likely town
492 by Blosc is literally just him trying to earn town points.
Proph and Blosc agree a LOT. Already caught like 20 instances of this, and it's very weird.
Silvercry's 404 makes me think he's town.
407: Blosc says I could over explain as town or scum, but that he "feels" like I'm doing it as scum. I've already addressed this with him and explained, but I guess that doesn't matter to him lol. GJ read very town to me, and I was simply noting my read my replying to his same read. Additionally, his point that I didn't try to determine his alignment is so weak, it was the first page, maybe the second, and barely out of RVS. He's trying to push incredibly weak points as these definitive and objective indications of my alignment.
Also, in 408, Blosc calls Hunt town.
In 412, Blosc responds to Proph pointing out a post he thinks is town of me, and says it's good but doesn't indicate my alignment. So of my like 5 posts at that point, the ones where I don't try to figure out Blosc's alignment but explain why I think GJ is town mean I'm scum, but a huge post with genuine scum hunting somehow doesn't at all reflect positively on me. How? No matter what his motivation is, he's tunnel visioning me. He's definitively just choosing which posts to call scummy and ignoring any that reflect otherwise.
He also says "Mindreaver is a light town read for reasons I don't remember". What? Well go back and look for them! I don't know how you forget that even, but I find it hard to believe he can't think of SOMETHING.
#415: Proph says that my wagon could exist in me as town world, Blosc totally dismisses it. Again, just another example where he refuses to acknowledge any likeliness I'm town, even if it's the rational option in a hypothetical situation.
Just now seeing Seppel's claim. I can help you, but in a unique way. I'm not sure I want to disclose just how. But I can absolutely help you.
#447 by Silvercry looks like he's trying to act active but isn't actually doing anything.
#351: What a surprise, people ask questions of Blosc and his response is "I see the questions, just don't have time to respond to them". Yet another instance of Blosc not cooperating or answering what's asked of him.
#353: Blosc town clears Seppel based on what he said about me, considers he might need to reread me, but obviously nothing has changed. He's acknowledged the possibility of me being town, but is headstrong on wanting me dead.
#371: By Silvercry, runs to Hunt's defense, looks like he really wants Seppel to be voting for Mato instead? How this is posted is very weird too. Will have to look at it again later.
#378: Can someone please try to convince me TS is scum after this. What a genuine, town mindset. I feel like TS is blatantly town and this is just further proof.
#392: By TS, I like this post, he sounds like a townie who is genuinely frustrated and trying to make other people see his view.
Post #398 is how I feel about Proph almost exactly, lol. TS in this game is Cyan in AA. Defending me, very genuine, obviously town. If he gets killed, they'll be identical.
Post #399 by Bosc, paragraphs upon paragraphs of WIFOM, where he really doesn't say much at all. "I agree, but I don't, but yeah he's probably town he won't get lynched", followed by lots of WIFOM.
Not a gimmick is town for #333.
#336 by Mato is horribly bad, and I feel like this is one of the most obvious indicators of his alignments. At this point, I'm thinking Blosc/Mato are paired, and am working from there. Possibly Kraj? He just seems to be playing so lazily thus far.
Post #349: "I think Hunger is scum, it's a gut read and nothing more, but I think he's scum." What a terrible reason, lol. Also, "Imab is obviously anti-town, but I don't want him lynched". He basically fencesits on him, clearly seeing which way people go on him before placing an actual read.
Post #350: Your reason for calling me scum is listed here, and it's not even what I was doing. I wasn't congratulating you on saying he's town, I thought he was town and was like I also think this, here's why I do. In no way was I congratulating you or acting in the ridiculously over exaggerated and misconstrued manner you presented me to be acting.
So in reality my questioning that was mercilessly ridiculed as scummy and fishing comes full circle. Nice to be validated. I do wish some of you were quicker on the take though. Like why did people have to argue over this for 20 pages, only Hunt agreed with my original questioning outside of this.
Well, not to get drawn into a quagmire here, but my thinking was that James Bond is bulletproof. I mean, a few dozen movies, hundreds of bad guys, thousands of bullets... and 6 actors later, he's still walking. So in that way, NAG's claim would make sense for town, but any speculation that would lead toward a bulletproof/unkillable NAG, would have helped scum avoid targeting him. Hence my desire to avoid that discussion at all costs. Also, when I was saying I could think of multiple reasons, I was thinking of Proph's claim of a PGO from twinborn, which would have also been pretty good for us, if NAG was trying to specifically draw the NK.
Now, I still see where he'd want the name out there (since he knew his lover's name, the logical assumption is that his lover would also know his). Not sure about the part where he didn't realize he wasn't town though. If NAG thought he was town, and that the lover claim would townclear them both, that definitely puts a bullseye on their heads, immediately. GJ's neutral status claim makes that less likely.
As I said earlier there is something weird between the Blos/Proph slots and I'm interested in a flip here. It would be surprising at this point if one of the two isn't scum. He imploded over the last few pages over the Ghosting read.
Proph says the best players he's played with? Doesn't read anything like Sir Chris but I guess Proph might have higher regard for someone else? Not sure.
So, Proph is reading for me exactly the same as twinborn (he was town), where I pushed really hard for a D1 lynch. Blos's thoughts on this point, echoed exactly what I was thinking. I might be being fooled by proph, but I'm not willing to chance it at this point.
That said, I didn't like the tone of "I'm going to leave my vote here forever" (paraphrased). But the rest of the ghosting interaction was fine. I think the case on ghosting was more based on lack of participation than actual evidence, which he's trying to remedy. Keeping an eye on it.
My flavor is also Russian, but not JANUS affiliated. I don't think we can count on flavor gaming here.
Or we can and all the Russians are town and the Americans are scum and Mato outed himself with his attempt at RP'ing. And if Mato is scum, I think there is a chance Bloscovi is covering for him by trying to downplay the actual relevance of his roleplay.
This I hated. I think most people are of the opinion that flavor gaming isn't going to get us anywhere. But this example is clearly using it, not to solve anything, but to draw suspicion onto not one, but two others. Not town.
Can you expand on your read? As in, please don't say "Proph thinks he's town, so I do too", like you did in post #449. Your only other inference of thinking he's town is when you said that his PM confirms him in your eyes, but I'd like more.
Additionally, how do you feel about his recent responses to me?
#371: By Silvercry, runs to Hunt's defense, looks like he really wants Seppel to be voting for Mato instead? How this is posted is very weird too. Will have to look at it again later.
I can help you here - I was confused as to why Seppel would vote Hunt after he seemed so convinced Matowar was scum without even telling TappingStones why he thought that might be. I didn't really like the way he just jumped from what he obviously thought was scum!Matowar to Hunt with such a flimsy excuse as "he's posting too much" when he clearly wasn't.
I wasn't trying to defend Hunt or trying to get him to vote Matowar, I was looking for a reaction.
@Everyone: Thoughts on Seppel's mass claim request? I feel like it's a little soon (we still have 2 weeks in day 1) but I'm not strongly against full claiming.
@TappingStones: If Blos flips scum, do you think that makes it more likely Proph is scum or Ghosting?
@Seppel: Would you share the basis for your Hunger scum read?
I don't understand what you're getting at with this.
The sample PM says townies are (or can be) members of Russian Execution Squad.
KA roleplays being a Russian in their first post, then flips Member of Hell's Grannies/Mafia Goon.
Are you just emphasizing that flavor gaming is usually pointless? I don't get the connection to Kraj's first post, unless you're saying roleplayers should be lynched because they might be lying and/or scum or something. I don't know that that is alignment indicative.
I can't seem to find the smiley for fishing (which I thought they had at one point)
Here he accuses TappingStones of fishing, though it's worded somewhat passively?
Quote from Brinatoo »
Care to elaborate on the "just feel crafted" portions of any post. I'm having a hard time feeling up on my computer.
@ModSo: What is the timer for when prods can be given? Thanks.
The thing I like here is that he says "I'm having a hard time feeling up on my computer". It shows that he is interested in the causal method of behavioral analysis, aka, where he steps into someone else's shoes and tries to figure out where they are coming from. He's doing that in regards to me, which shows that he is trying to figure out my alignment. So yeah, I'd give minor town points to Brinatoo for this.
Quote from Brinatoo »
From the beginning you explain James Bond could be, by flavor, a very powerful role. Then you proceed to call this fake. Sure, he could have a plan or idea based on his role (for example he knows James Bond isn't among the populace and takes it as his own to indicate flavor-town or draws NKs from mafioso) but that is far-fetched and too many assumptions, but what you say after doesn't indicate this thought process. You ask others if town would do this and point out he could be a vanilla drawing fire for a NK and then under this circumstance say he is trying too hard. Because of the order of how you did this, and the discrepancies of thought process- I lean heavily scum mindset from this post.
This shows some critical thought and analysis when it comes to TappingStones's posts thus far. I can see where Brinatoo is coming from, with this - TappingStones's first couple of posts about James Bond were not that great, after all. The "discrepancies of thought process" is again something I like - it's a phrase that shows that Brinatoo is actively trying to get inside TappingStones's head.
Quote from Brinatoo »
He thought you were faking the claim then proposed a vanilla town NK theory which was "trying too hard." "Seems fake to me." is tied together with "vanilla eat a night kill trying too hard" and "very powerful role" is tied together with "would town do that?" I have a hard time believing a townie would post those 4 in THAT order.
Notices a discrepancy and scumreads TappingStones for it. Everything makes sense and is logical thus far from Brinatoo.
Quote from Brinatoo »
I'm mostly interested in the paranoia part of the statement but can't speak from experience. When, in your experience, does paranoia traits begin to emerge in a game? Right after RVS?
Follows up on his question (and it was a good question, as well!) which shows that he is interested in the answer to it.
Quote from Brinatoo »
@Proph: What is your opinion on paranoia early in a game?
I feel compelled to mention this because I thought this was an oddly placed question since he asked it while I was V/LA, but it follows through with his earlier questions about Ghosting to paranoia.
Quote from Brinatoo »
No. Yes. Leaning Heavily- meaning I believe it was most likely scum mindset. The other case being as what Kraj described in #127 as legitimately insane. Hell it could be a combination of the two with what I'm seeing. "you haven't presented"- I don't think any words could be town (Unless you meant phrases). But I'm analyzing your posting behavior. Then you essentially called my reasoning a low level mistake and think my method is "Player x does things I wouldn't do, therefore I think he's scum." Again, posting behavior not a "if i was in his shoes" scenario. This coupled with your reactionary play after just dug the hole deeper for me.
Brinatoo is also voting TappingStones and actively pressuring him on it, which is good!
Quote from Brinatoo »
No it wasn't and I apologize if you mistook it for a personal attack. I don't think it's a derogatory statement and I think you also have to understand where I'm coming from with this. I am trying to understand your methods, scum or town. Insane is synonymous with eclectic to me. Heck, irl I've had people I've known that fall under this category. In particular there was someone very close to me that literally was clinically insane. Do I think it is something to poke fun at? No, not at all. Do I think it can help to understand where said person is coming from? Yes. But if you can't engage with me or treat me/my posts with any respect, I agree we probably can't work together.
"I am trying to understand your methods, scum or town" is a great phase to use, as I keep mentioning throughout this PBPA. It consistently shows that Brinatoo is performing causation analysis. He's trying to understand where TS is coming from.
Quote from Brinatoo »
I brought up Hunger because I'm curious about your opinion on Seppel and "forcing him to care if he's town." With Hunger lurking and Seppel not caring, in your experience with Sep and your play to nudge him in a town direction if the same thing couldn't be applied to Hunger because your past experience with them is null?
This is also an insightful question to Gentleman Johnny. I really like this question because it displays deeper thinking about the game.
Couple more posts - Brinatoo is still asking good and relevant questions. He's trying to make people take more stances via the question to Bloscovi here:
Quote from Brinatoo »
@Blos: Of the mindreaver/silver/ghosting wagons, what do you think would be the most beneficial on interactions alone aside from scumhunting? We still have plenty of time but if deadline was now- that scenario.
.. as well as asked a good question to Gentleman Johnny here:
Quote from Brinatoo »
@GJ: You are inclined to believe your partner has no alignment, why? From your post #129 about being nervous about early town/scum reads, I believe you care one way or another about an alignment. Or is it that you are playing assuming they are of an alignment just in case?
So yeah, from ISOing Brinatoo, I've come to the conclusion that he is pretty strongly town for asking relevant questions that contribute to the gamestate. He also seems to want to actually be figuring things out, which is a good sign. Him adopting the actus reus method of scumhunting and putting it on display is great as well. If I had reservations, it would be that Brinatoo has voted two probable townies so far, but it's something that I have troubles with, with most of the playerbase.
Though, I do have one question:
@Brinatoo: This may be something lost by simply ISOing you (so I don't get any context) but what happened to your scumread on TappingStones? Your last relevant post about Tapping was on post #161, then you vote Silvercrys. What's your read on TappingStones now, and why did you stop pressuring him? Are you still scumreading Silvercrys?
Going to catchup a bit later/respond to Ghosting, but I just wanted to be put on record that any votes on Bloscovi are useless for Today since it's -EV to lynch a strong player Day 1. (inb4 Tapping complains about MTGS meta strong player rep)
He's not going to get lynched, since if he is town we will wrap up the game in pretty short order. If he is scum then he has buddies to hunt - we can kill them off first, then re-evaluate when we hit Day 4 or so. But we'll win more games in the long run if we accept Bloscovi is town and let him work his magic to kill the scum.
I might still be able to poke my nose in through the next day or two, because I'm terrible at being responsible and allocating my time to things I should be allocating it to, over mafia.
Sometimes your posts really make me want to eat shards of broken glass.
So are you going to respond to what I said, or completely ignore it?
You have made up points against me, vastly misconstrued me, and refused to elaborate on your views when asked for proof. Additionally, you have refused to discuss and demonstrated that you are not willing to even listen to a response I have. Can you explain how that possibly comes from a town mindset, or is asking for a reply too much?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Yeah, no problem.
I had already explained my reasons for thinking these people are town earlier (you can check back to see this as well). I said Mato sounds like he did in Ace where he was town, GJ I explained in more than one post in decent detail, and I said I think you're town with reasons as well in an earlier post. I actually read my earlier posts to make that post, so that's how I know I for sure did lol.
Also, I had very few reads and very little material to work with to determine reads, so I was working with what I have.
Keep the questions coming though, it really helps me feel like I'm a part of the game lol. After not reading or playing for so long I came back in having no idea what's up. I still feel that way, but I'm working on my reread, so it's getting better.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Are you going to provide that?
Anyway, my vote's going on Bloscovi. His case against me is horrible, as I've explained, and he's refused to acknowledge my questions or engage in conversation with me. I'm not giving him any reason not to (like I'm not just insulting him or not asking questions, I'm being pretty nice and just asking for a few simple things, as well as wonder why he had to misrep me). Town doesn't think and act like that. Megs and Iso specifically, as scum, recently acted like that. I can't reconcile how town could behave and think in that manner, if someone I think is scum is defending themselves, that's awesome. If they're engaging in genuine conversation and questioning my argument, I'd want to make sure my argument was proven solid by responding and all that. Like why would you not be like, sure Ghosting, these posts are why you're scum, and here's why. Or why would you say "No I'm not going to talk to you, I don't care, I'm ignoring anything you ask or say".
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Definitely man, as I said I'm just in the process of rereading, and answering questions as I complete the reread. I'm also finishing a lab report for my physics class tonight so that is prioritised, although I am obviously playing a bit right now.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Well I would think you could play a little hooky to help us clarify your role in this game old sport.
1. Will have to read it carefully, but I thought your vote on Seppel was for a better reason than his vote on you.
2. Define "better". But considering those two wagons are the ones I was on, probably not.
3. Seeing as how I'm voting Mindreaver... That said:
So early on NAG comes out and claims James Bond and TS in particular doesn't understand why a Townie would do such a thing. Possible reasons other than " because its awesome" are pure speculation, but what is certain is that NAG does not fear a mafia NK.
Then GJ, whom I and several others read as town and (iirc) was under no pressure, claims neutral lover w NAG. I believe him. Notably, he assumes NAG is also neutral, meaning Iso intentionally did not confirm the lover's alignments to each other. Unless I missed it, GJ did not claim his role name, but when someone said Natalya he didn't deny.
Seppel then claims Boris, a character that flavor-wise should obviously be mafia. Again, he does this unprompted and his reasoning makes sense, and I'm inclined to believe him.
The role PM 'fiasco' further reinforces that the mod is blurring alignment lines.
I am a Siberian Guard and am vanilla town, though I do have an item. Flavor-wise my expectation for a Russian guard would be mafia goon.
So we have an obvmafia character as town, a generic bad guy as town, an obvtown character as neutral lover with an ambiguously aligned James Bond as a partner.
So why would James Bond claim during RVS without fear of a mafia NK? Because the mafia know from their collective roles that alignments don't all match flavor, but NAG assumed we would never lynch James Bond, especially with lover status.
unvote, vote: not a gimmick
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
So in reality my questioning that was mercilessly ridiculed as scummy and fishing comes full circle. Nice to be validated. I do wish some of you were quicker on the take though. Like why did people have to argue over this for 20 pages, only Hunt agreed with my original questioning outside of this.
@Ghosting - I went back and read your posts and the only one you mentioned a town read on before the post in question was GJ. The rest of your reads in that post were never explained upon before. Most of your other posts were actually just you defending yourself against questions and not really talking about your reads at all.
So how does that mesh?
@GJ - Yeah, there is no reason for scum to shoot you I guess from a numbers perspective assuming you two don't count towards control of the vote. However, if you guys are telling the truth, it's still the classic survivor conundrum of you need to be scumhunting enough for town to not want you out of the way, but you can't actually do it too well and get scum lynched or the scum way just want to clear you out of the way. There will be a point in this game most likely where at least one of the teams would be better off without your presence.
On top of that, I don't believe you are being entirely truthful. I don't think James Bond in a Bond-themed game is simply a lover/survivor with no other bearing on the game. So I think there is going to be a point in this game where we need to reassess what your impact on the game is. If I'm not around at that point in the game I hope others will not continue to write you guys off as non-threats that never need to be given a second thought. You are openly not town that can win with scum you say, which means we can only trust you up until we can't and that's a dangerous game to play. Like, if we miss scum for 3 days and are way behind, you suddenly become a threat as survivors because it's in your best interest to just help scum end the game ASAP.
@Seppel - That's a cute read on me. Explain how Bloscovi being "The heart of the role PM outing" makes him have to be town? Also, do you honestly think I am the type of player that, as scum, would be the one to randomly bring this issue up without knowing whether or not Town appeared in anyones pms? What do you think I have to gain there if I guess right and what do you think the outcome is if I guess wrong?
Gentleman Johnny's posts to that point: My question is: Did GJ actually have enough content that you could reasonably say "his play is remarkably similar to Ace Attorney"?
Bloscovi and Proph say no.
I'm inclined to agree with them, but I wanted you to have a chance to get caught up so you had a chance to defend yourself. Seppel and Tapping seem to think your meta clears you. I'm not sure one way or the other, and my town/lean town reads are split down the middle on it.
If it isn't you or Hunger, I'll be shocked but it's not the end of the world. Hopefully Kraj comes back and Jobie makes an actual post soon.
after reading through Ghosting vs. Blos I keep coming back to the idea of Blos hard bussing. Is that a thing? He really put the gas on Ghosting from the word go and hasn't let up. The latest post really made me stop and think about it. I considered "He just said he isn't moving his vote until Ghosting is dead. That's pretty extreme. But he has invested a big attack on Ghosting. IF it's bussing he gets nothing out of it until Ghosting flips. Then he gets the 'See I was right all along' cred. One of his other points that he's brought up multiple times is that 'no scum is on the wagon', well, unless that scum is you and town wants no part of it. In fact IF Blos is scum and Proph is town, Proph already said he's just /barn what Blos case is. This could literally be one scum player trying to nail Ghosting"
Ok, now someone tell me I'm crazt for thinking about all that, but it's bothering me.
Something about the Proph/Blos slots are gross.
Hunger continues to be scum.
Based on Kraj's roleclaim, I would appreciate it if everyone would claim their roles. There's one obscure one in particular that I personally know Iso loved playing as in multi-player.
Well that's a waste of a town vote. You know Hunt is proven scum, right?
You're overwatching it. Put it down.
So, I've been thinking about it too and I can't honestly say you're crazy.
He even said earlier he's well-known for hard bussing day one and two because people who know his meta know he's scum if he tries for a mislynch.
And he's a gimmick who's main is apparently well-known.
Plus he said he would kill Proph if he got lazy (#514). Threatening to bus him too? Scum slip and threatening him with the NK? Banter between old buddies?
Something is really fishy here but I can't put my finger on it.
I wasn't going to claim the lovers part, but I wanted my other half to know who I was.
Maybe I would have if I had realized I wasn't town.
@Proph - any thoughts on this? I almost think (hope?) he's scum, buddying town!Proph since you know he's so great at analysis.
I also didn't love Mato's prod response. Reads as though he very intentionally is actively lurking.
I think all town being Russian is a bit too easy though.
To claim a bit more, I am Xenia. I left Janus after I realized he was only using me to get the Key and after falling for Bond's charm I agreed to lend my survival knowledge to his cause.
So, Seppel and I are both former Janus agents that are difficult to kill. I can't decide if that creates a dichotomy and he just has to be scum or if that's a flavor trap given the fact that items can change hands and most likely be stolen. I'm actually leaning towards the latter especially considering I have been reading Seppel as town.
@Silvercrys: I don't think it's useful to determine Bloscovi's alignment currently. He definitely can be wrong at some point if he's town, and he will bus his own buddies if he's scum. If he is town, though, then he will probably lead us on to victory, since he is probably the best mafia player I've ever come across. If he is scum, though, then he will bus his buddies at some point, and then later game we can examine/re-evaluate his play more closely. But on Day 1? I'm trusting him automatically.
Town
TappingStones
Lean Town
Prophylaxis
Seppel
Huntzilla
No Read
Ghosting
Brinatoo
Mindreaver
Hunger
imabusinessman
Lean Scum
Matowar77
Probably Scum
Bloscovi
Claimed Neutrals
Gentleman Johnny
not_a_gimmick
Lurking
Kraj
Jobie
Changes from last T/S
--- not_a_gimmick claimed neutral.
--- Bloscovi - see my #562, #565 & TappingStones' #559. His claim ("good guy" VT) doesn't sit well with me either. If he's that experienced I'm not sure an accidental full claim slips out that easily.
--- Matowar77 - If he's town, he's not helping. Seems to be actively lurking and posting random comments on current events full of emoticons. If he's town, he needs to at least post a reasoned T/S list or something.
--- Moved Ghosting and Hunger to no read from lurking.
--- Huntzilla - read him in iso. Asking good questions and seems to be scum hunting.
Previous T/S
Vote: Bloscovi
Someone convince me Proph is scum with Blos.
@Hunger - Interesting thought. The OP made me think that the scum team was current JANUS agents though. But then it is an Iso game. Bah. I'm gonna stick to behavior but that might be worth pursuing if we end up in a mass-claim.
I think that ship sailed. He probably knows bussing his buddies won't do him or them any good now.
Hell, if I were him, I'd try to get lynched so I don't reflexively bus my team.
Unless he just wants town to win even though he's scum. That might explain some things. He hates playing scum, only signed up to help Iso get enough players, is playing on a gimmick but admits to bussing heavily on his main...
I'm vaguely uncomfortable voting Ghosting when he's barely posted anything and he doesn't seem particularly scummy.
Unvote
Vote: Matowar77
@Matowar:
Give us a T/S list or something at least.
Russian Scientist here.
@Proph: Could you please get to reading me? I'd like to converse with whatever Blos has for me sooner than later.
@Jobie: Hopefully people will want to join my Normal once my turn is up I'll have a vote for what the lobby would want me to do and Overwatch is among those choices. Awaiting your reads/catchup.
Trying to flavor game an Iso setup will only end poorly.
If you think I'm bussing Ghosting, then you should vote Ghosting!
But his self-interested, single-minded focus on defense does not come from town who hasn't caught up.
The accusation of misrepresentation is false. I've been explicit in why I think he is scum throughout the game.
"Self-interested, single-minded focus on defense"? Any defense against calling anyone scum is going to be "self-interested" and "single-minded". Not only is that unbelievably loaded language and an intentionally manipulative choice of words, but I literally can only defend my previous actions until I am caught up. I am in the process of catching up, as I've said, and have tried to create a very open communication with you that you are refusing to respond to.
It's literally not, and you still won't answer my questions. Respond to what I've said. Why are you so afraid of it? If you're so sure, you should have no problem elaborating, referencing quotes as examples, and refuting my points. As town, you should want to respond so you can prove me wrong.
I am in physics so will continue to catch up after that, but seriously Blosc, if you're town, start acting like it. Your mindset and headstrong attitude are in no way reflective of a townie.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I will talk with you about your reads or my reads on other players.
I will not talk with you about why you are scum, because I have no interest in any line of defense you'd try to give.
The case is literally: I don't think there is sufficient content for you to have the town read you did on GJ, for the reasons you gave.
This is only possible if you are scum, and know GJ is not scum.
The manner that you agreed with my reason-less town read feels like you knew I was town that identified a town correctly, and kind of awkwardly hopped on the 'Yep, GJ sure is town, nice catch!' bandwagon.
The fact that you later state that you hate reads without reasoning makes it hard for me to reconcile this behavior, because my initial town read on GJ had zero reasoning. If this is behavior you find scummy, I think Town!You tries to figure out my alignment in some form, rather than talking to me like I'm town with a correct read.
Your singleminded focus on defense, when there's functionally nothing to defend against, makes me convinced you are scum. The only line you have to take is to attack me and try to discredit me, which, well, you did!
This is the last I'll address my read on you, because it just serves no purpose to do so. I'm not going to convince you that you're scum, and you the reason I think you're scum means you can't really defend against it.
The way to 'defend' is to actively scumhunt, and try to figure out the game, and show that you're town - which you are not doing. You're self-centric in a way that town rarely is.
Can you tell us how you know town are not all Russians? You're welcome to say we shouldn't flavour game, but if you don't objectively know that, then it's just as speculative as claiming all town are.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
And I'm Q.
If you think what I'm saying is wrong, prove it by replying to me.
Anyway, I'm exclusively catching up now, so next post will be something bigger.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I see you replied, but not specifically to what I was asking, and you've still missed some questions. I want you to answer those.
Can you explain a town mindset who would shut down another player trying to communicate? Why would you not be open to someone explaining their views if that could make you see them as town? Your job isn't to see how much you can convince yourself I'm scum, it's to be genuinely convinced after analysing data without tunnel vision and with an actual desire to catch scum.
Additionally, if responding to me makes your case more solid, don't you want that?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
My thought process follows directly from my answer to Bloscovi's "Which three would you shoot" question (You, Ghosting, and someone at random) and my answer to your other question about why I thought you were more likely to be scum than Kraj and Jobie.
1) Scum is hiding in the people who haven't posted much. (Essentially: Hunger, Ghosting, Jobie, Kraj, IABM)
2) Of those 5, I'm assuming at least one is scum.
3) Hunger, Ghosting together have a 40% (2/5) of flipping scum.
4) I would be shocked if one of Hunger or Ghosting didn't flip scum.
Of course, statistically that's true of any pair from those five. I chose you and Ghosting based on a gut feeling I had that you two had a higher chance than the other three of containing one scum.
Then,
5) Hunger is posting more, and his posts so far are decently strong.
5a) Hunger is less likely to be scum than before -> no read until I see more.
6) Ghosting still hasn't posted much, but is posting more now.
6a) Ghosting is less likely to be scum than before -> no read until I see more.
Statistically, it seemed likely one of you would flip scum so I would be "shocked" if one of you didn't. One of you could still flip scum, anyway. But I prefer to vote/lynch based on behavior not sheer statistics, so I was waiting for you both to get back. Now you're both null, though I'm starting to lean scum on Ghosting. I don't like the way he's so tunneled on defending himself from Blos even though his wagon is almost non-existent. He's probably in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario there because if he just leaves it Blos is going to keep pushing him anyway.
Now Matowar is actively lurking, Jobie hasn't made a real catch-up post yet, and I haven't gotten a chance to really analyze Kraj.
Others can do so as well, but hold off until at least 1-2 of those do it, please.
Rather, I encourage everyone to read it and form an opinion, but don't necessarily post it yet.
RIP inability to edit things.
Hunger likely town
492 by Blosc is literally just him trying to earn town points.
Proph and Blosc agree a LOT. Already caught like 20 instances of this, and it's very weird.
Silvercry's 404 makes me think he's town.
407: Blosc says I could over explain as town or scum, but that he "feels" like I'm doing it as scum. I've already addressed this with him and explained, but I guess that doesn't matter to him lol. GJ read very town to me, and I was simply noting my read my replying to his same read. Additionally, his point that I didn't try to determine his alignment is so weak, it was the first page, maybe the second, and barely out of RVS. He's trying to push incredibly weak points as these definitive and objective indications of my alignment.
Also, in 408, Blosc calls Hunt town.
In 412, Blosc responds to Proph pointing out a post he thinks is town of me, and says it's good but doesn't indicate my alignment. So of my like 5 posts at that point, the ones where I don't try to figure out Blosc's alignment but explain why I think GJ is town mean I'm scum, but a huge post with genuine scum hunting somehow doesn't at all reflect positively on me. How? No matter what his motivation is, he's tunnel visioning me. He's definitively just choosing which posts to call scummy and ignoring any that reflect otherwise.
He also says "Mindreaver is a light town read for reasons I don't remember". What? Well go back and look for them! I don't know how you forget that even, but I find it hard to believe he can't think of SOMETHING.
#415: Proph says that my wagon could exist in me as town world, Blosc totally dismisses it. Again, just another example where he refuses to acknowledge any likeliness I'm town, even if it's the rational option in a hypothetical situation.
Just now seeing Seppel's claim. I can help you, but in a unique way. I'm not sure I want to disclose just how. But I can absolutely help you.
#447 by Silvercry looks like he's trying to act active but isn't actually doing anything.
#351: What a surprise, people ask questions of Blosc and his response is "I see the questions, just don't have time to respond to them". Yet another instance of Blosc not cooperating or answering what's asked of him.
#353: Blosc town clears Seppel based on what he said about me, considers he might need to reread me, but obviously nothing has changed. He's acknowledged the possibility of me being town, but is headstrong on wanting me dead.
#371: By Silvercry, runs to Hunt's defense, looks like he really wants Seppel to be voting for Mato instead? How this is posted is very weird too. Will have to look at it again later.
#378: Can someone please try to convince me TS is scum after this. What a genuine, town mindset. I feel like TS is blatantly town and this is just further proof.
#392: By TS, I like this post, he sounds like a townie who is genuinely frustrated and trying to make other people see his view.
Post #398 is how I feel about Proph almost exactly, lol. TS in this game is Cyan in AA. Defending me, very genuine, obviously town. If he gets killed, they'll be identical.
Post #399 by Bosc, paragraphs upon paragraphs of WIFOM, where he really doesn't say much at all. "I agree, but I don't, but yeah he's probably town he won't get lynched", followed by lots of WIFOM.
Not a gimmick is town for #333.
#336 by Mato is horribly bad, and I feel like this is one of the most obvious indicators of his alignments. At this point, I'm thinking Blosc/Mato are paired, and am working from there. Possibly Kraj? He just seems to be playing so lazily thus far.
Post #349: "I think Hunger is scum, it's a gut read and nothing more, but I think he's scum." What a terrible reason, lol. Also, "Imab is obviously anti-town, but I don't want him lynched". He basically fencesits on him, clearly seeing which way people go on him before placing an actual read.
Post #350: Your reason for calling me scum is listed here, and it's not even what I was doing. I wasn't congratulating you on saying he's town, I thought he was town and was like I also think this, here's why I do. In no way was I congratulating you or acting in the ridiculously over exaggerated and misconstrued manner you presented me to be acting.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Well, not to get drawn into a quagmire here, but my thinking was that James Bond is bulletproof. I mean, a few dozen movies, hundreds of bad guys, thousands of bullets... and 6 actors later, he's still walking. So in that way, NAG's claim would make sense for town, but any speculation that would lead toward a bulletproof/unkillable NAG, would have helped scum avoid targeting him. Hence my desire to avoid that discussion at all costs. Also, when I was saying I could think of multiple reasons, I was thinking of Proph's claim of a PGO from twinborn, which would have also been pretty good for us, if NAG was trying to specifically draw the NK.
Now, I still see where he'd want the name out there (since he knew his lover's name, the logical assumption is that his lover would also know his). Not sure about the part where he didn't realize he wasn't town though. If NAG thought he was town, and that the lover claim would townclear them both, that definitely puts a bullseye on their heads, immediately. GJ's neutral status claim makes that less likely.
As I said earlier there is something weird between the Blos/Proph slots and I'm interested in a flip here. It would be surprising at this point if one of the two isn't scum. He imploded over the last few pages over the Ghosting read.
Proph says the best players he's played with? Doesn't read anything like Sir Chris but I guess Proph might have higher regard for someone else? Not sure.
Where is everyone else at with Blos?
Still townlean.
So, Proph is reading for me exactly the same as twinborn (he was town), where I pushed really hard for a D1 lynch. Blos's thoughts on this point, echoed exactly what I was thinking. I might be being fooled by proph, but I'm not willing to chance it at this point.
That said, I didn't like the tone of "I'm going to leave my vote here forever" (paraphrased). But the rest of the ghosting interaction was fine. I think the case on ghosting was more based on lack of participation than actual evidence, which he's trying to remedy. Keeping an eye on it.
This I hated. I think most people are of the opinion that flavor gaming isn't going to get us anywhere. But this example is clearly using it, not to solve anything, but to draw suspicion onto not one, but two others. Not town.
Can you expand on your read? As in, please don't say "Proph thinks he's town, so I do too", like you did in post #449. Your only other inference of thinking he's town is when you said that his PM confirms him in your eyes, but I'd like more.
Additionally, how do you feel about his recent responses to me?
Thanks.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Also I feel slightly better about Ghosting after that notespam.
I wasn't trying to defend Hunt or trying to get him to vote Matowar, I was looking for a reaction.
@Everyone: Thoughts on Seppel's mass claim request? I feel like it's a little soon (we still have 2 weeks in day 1) but I'm not strongly against full claiming.
@TappingStones: If Blos flips scum, do you think that makes it more likely Proph is scum or Ghosting?
@Seppel: Would you share the basis for your Hunger scum read?
The sample PM says townies are (or can be) members of Russian Execution Squad.
KA roleplays being a Russian in their first post, then flips Member of Hell's Grannies/Mafia Goon.
Are you just emphasizing that flavor gaming is usually pointless? I don't get the connection to Kraj's first post, unless you're saying roleplayers should be lynched because they might be lying and/or scum or something. I don't know that that is alignment indicative.
Here he accuses TappingStones of fishing, though it's worded somewhat passively? The thing I like here is that he says "I'm having a hard time feeling up on my computer". It shows that he is interested in the causal method of behavioral analysis, aka, where he steps into someone else's shoes and tries to figure out where they are coming from. He's doing that in regards to me, which shows that he is trying to figure out my alignment. So yeah, I'd give minor town points to Brinatoo for this.
This shows some critical thought and analysis when it comes to TappingStones's posts thus far. I can see where Brinatoo is coming from, with this - TappingStones's first couple of posts about James Bond were not that great, after all. The "discrepancies of thought process" is again something I like - it's a phrase that shows that Brinatoo is actively trying to get inside TappingStones's head.
Notices a discrepancy and scumreads TappingStones for it. Everything makes sense and is logical thus far from Brinatoo.
Follows up on his question (and it was a good question, as well!) which shows that he is interested in the answer to it.
I feel compelled to mention this because I thought this was an oddly placed question since he asked it while I was V/LA, but it follows through with his earlier questions about Ghosting to paranoia.
Brinatoo is also voting TappingStones and actively pressuring him on it, which is good!
"I am trying to understand your methods, scum or town" is a great phase to use, as I keep mentioning throughout this PBPA. It consistently shows that Brinatoo is performing causation analysis. He's trying to understand where TS is coming from.
This is also an insightful question to Gentleman Johnny. I really like this question because it displays deeper thinking about the game.
Couple more posts - Brinatoo is still asking good and relevant questions. He's trying to make people take more stances via the question to Bloscovi here:
.. as well as asked a good question to Gentleman Johnny here:
So yeah, from ISOing Brinatoo, I've come to the conclusion that he is pretty strongly town for asking relevant questions that contribute to the gamestate. He also seems to want to actually be figuring things out, which is a good sign. Him adopting the actus reus method of scumhunting and putting it on display is great as well. If I had reservations, it would be that Brinatoo has voted two probable townies so far, but it's something that I have troubles with, with most of the playerbase.
Though, I do have one question:
@Brinatoo: This may be something lost by simply ISOing you (so I don't get any context) but what happened to your scumread on TappingStones? Your last relevant post about Tapping was on post #161, then you vote Silvercrys. What's your read on TappingStones now, and why did you stop pressuring him? Are you still scumreading Silvercrys?
He's not going to get lynched, since if he is town we will wrap up the game in pretty short order. If he is scum then he has buddies to hunt - we can kill them off first, then re-evaluate when we hit Day 4 or so. But we'll win more games in the long run if we accept Bloscovi is town and let him work his magic to kill the scum.