I think I might have the same formatting that Proph is speaking of if he is on the level, which is certainly different than what Silver posted. I think the fact that Silver posted it though without being explicitly asked is a good sign.
@Proph - Given what I said above, how do you feel about Bloscovi's 484?
I think all role PMs are formatted differently, and I don't want to go deep into the modgaming trap, so I'm inclined to believe Bloscovi on that matter.
Quote from Bloscovi »
If it helps, I'm pretty sure I'd reflexively bus Proph into the ground on day one if I ever rolled scum with him.
Because he's getting lynched at some point.
(I'm aware that this doesn't help at all)
The bolded is accurate. My biggest weakness is that I get mislynched far too often for an experienced player (heck, I wouldn't even call myself experienced, as there are a ton of players better than me, but I chug along and do what I can).
If I tell you don't you think that will probably influence your answer? It's not really a hard question, why so defensive about answering it? You have played with me enough to know that I probably have a reason for asking a question. Even if I don't have a reason, why wouldn't you just answer and then if I have no follow up you can gut me for it?
Anyway, I asked because of Twinborn. I pushed your misslynch (as town) in that game and I don't want to make the same mistake here. I am getting a similar vibe in this game of your posts lacking conviction and I'm trying to figure out whether you are actually just scum this time or if your mindstate is similar to what it was in that game. I don't want to be wrong about you again and I thought this would help filter my read on you. Considering you didn't answer though makes it hard to tell now if you did answer. Obviously Seppel and Bloscovi have differing opinions than myself so perhaps I am missing something and just need to reread you, but I also like some of what TS has pointed out.
OK, your answer explanation makes sense.
I wanted to know what you would get out of me answering the question because if I had a big post and deleted it and had to ask three questions to get caught back up in the game, the question "How are you feeling about this game?" wouldn't be one of the questions I would ask. I was just struggling to see in my brain, if I put myself in your shoes, how my answer would tell you much of anything.
However, your connection to Twinborn makes sense, and I'd actually say that I feel similar to my Twinborn self now this game, with the exception of me being active and engaged in this one. The reason for this is that I'm at a similar point I was in Day 1 of Twinborn, where I have a bunch of mild light town reads yet no solid scum suspects. If you remember any of my posts in Twinborn I was lacking conviction on anybody and I think it's similar in this game as well. The only person I have a legit scumread on is Ghosting, and that's because Bloscovi convinced me to stay on his wagon (if he wasn't there, I would back off on Ghosting due to his questions post).
And now I've read the other posts, and I'm woefully behind, lol.
Yeah mine is different from Silver and Proph's so they all might be different. I'm just surprised there is any ambiguity.
How do you know yours is different from Proph's? He didn't say how his was formatted other than to say it's different than Silver's.
Mine says specifically you are a member of the town, and that I work for the good guys. It doesn't say townie, which is what proph claimed above, nor does my role name say Town _____ like silver claimed.
But I'm satisfied with Blos now, that "Good Guys" thing was the real deal.
If you'd allow me to engage in the role PM speculation: I was mildly paranoid of Bloscovi for the same reason Hunger is (in that my role PM says Townie in it somewhat prominently) ...
I think the only person I'm willing to give any degree of town read to out of this whole role PM fiasco is Silver.
Because if he's scum, he knows I'm town, and he does not come in as scum, when someone he knows is town is saying otherwise, and straight up claim his role is Town X.
Like, there's a tiny chance he has the balls for that if his role is Mafia X and he gambles, but I don't see it.
Anyone else it's relatively easy to hop on the 'Wow, yep, there sure is wackiness afoot!' bandwagon, so it's null.
@Bloscovi - if you could name a scumteam right now, what would it be? If there are any scum both in our respective pockets, who would they be?
Like I said to Hunger, I have a lot of light town reads right now and it's making me worried because this was similar to Twinborn, where I also had a lot of light town reads and zero conviction on any scum. I think the major takeaway from this is that most of the scum are probably lurking.
(Also, I'll get to your Brinatoo exercise tonight, a full PBPA I don't really have the time/motivation for right now)
Ghosting I want dead. There's probably 2 scum in Hunger, Jobie, Kraj, IMAB.
This assumes 4 scum though. I guess I could see a 3-man scum team if our lovers are both neutral.
If I had to pick one semi-consensus town read who might be scum, I'd probably say Tapping.
Too many posts where it feels like he's being the Good Little Townie and trying to do what he thinks he should be doing. Combine this with his reads that were pretty different from mine, and the early game jumping on James Bond thing, and I could absolutely see him being a 'deep cover' scum.
I think it's more likely he's just kind of...unique town, though, so I don't really want to pursue it. It's just that niggling thought in the back of my mind that I don't want to dismiss completely.
Nah, I'm betting on four scum. Last Iso game (Iji) I got messed with since I assumed three scum when there were two neutrals, so I'm purposefully planning to not be screwed over this time.
I echo with you on Tapping in that he might be the Rodemy of the game, but that's obviously something that we figure out on Day 4 if both of us are still alive rather than Day 1, with zero flips.
Not going to have reliable access for a day or two starting in about oh. 2 minutes.
But hopefully the third of the game that isn't playing starts to play so I have something more interesting than the same 4-5 people talking to themselves to come back to.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Brinatoo - Not sure about the last few interactions with Proph/Bloscovi. After I mentioned the vig speculation, he bit right into the "which three would you shoot?" stuff. Not sure what that means, either fishing or buddying or breadcrumbing.
What? I was talking about wagons. I don't understand what you are referring to with fishing/buddying/breadcrumbing.
The question was a different take on your "if you had to shoot so and so now, who?"
That's the line that stood out for me. You asked which of the three wagon's he'd kill if the "deadline was right now", then this line was in your response.
I can't tell if you're trying to send a message that you're a vig and if blos really wants somebody dead, you'll do it (breadcrumbing), just trying to befriend Blos by asking him who he wants to kill (Buddying), or if you're trying to see if Proph or Blos is actually a vig and you can trick them into selecting who their target will be (fishing).
I thought it was suspicious, because I just finished saying "why are you speculating on vig kills?" and you came in with "Who do you want dead, if the day ended now blos?"
That's the line that stood out for me. You asked which of the three wagon's he'd kill if the "deadline was right now", then this line was in your response.
I can't tell if you're trying to send a message that you're a vig and if blos really wants somebody dead, you'll do it (breadcrumbing), just trying to befriend Blos by asking him who he wants to kill (Buddying), or if you're trying to see if Proph or Blos is actually a vig and you can trick them into selecting who their target will be (fishing).
I thought it was suspicious, because I just finished saying "why are you speculating on vig kills?" and you came in with "Who do you want dead, if the day ended now blos?"
Lynching =/= Vig That's why I said a different take on that type of question- we get wagon analysis in addition to the interactions.
I'd rather people not publicly speculate on that though. I signed up on a gimmmick because I wanted to help this game fire, but did not plan to be as active and thorough as I usually am, regardless of the alignment I rolled.
I think meta would confirm that I'm town, but I'd rather people just view me through the lens of my posts and mindset this game.
So do you consider the fact that some people know who you are and the rest of us don't a fair way to play the game? I certainly think Proph and whoever else knows who you are have a distinct and unfair advantage,
Well, we might as well be town at this stage. Claiming this made me more likely to be killed by town vig/lynch, but pre claim, I was more scared of being killed. I have been drawing a few night 1 kills when town lately (Stargate, Praetor, True Name).
Quote from NAG »
Hello my beautiful Natalya.
I was initially not sure if you were talking about me.
Weird story, I just assumed I was town because there wasn't a link to a QT or list of my scumteam.
But it doesn't actually say it anywhere. Iso was a bit skimpy on the win condition. Do we just have to live?
We do. We can win with either team, but lose regardless if one of us dies. Since the chance of being nightkilled is now close to zero, best interest to help the town.
Quote from Hunger »
GJ/gimmick - Lovers. Nothing to worry about now and they both seem to be providing some input. If they can win with scum though we need to be really careful since they have no loyalty towards us. It also messes with lylo/mylo numbers if scum is able to take them out during the Night.
Not that I am nitpicking, but the scum have zero motivation to kill us. We can win with them. For what it's worth though, I intend to scum hunt, as I would rather not eat a vig shot or lynch.
I want to see prodded players react more. Also unless I missed a vacation call, ghosting disappearing is making me more intrigued in that route. Still feeling good about Proph/Mindreaver right now. Hunger and TS are lean town as well.
TCM, my love. Sorry I've been away all month.
Now that I figured out what is going on, do you want to actually play as neutral?
We could withhold our votes until someone gets to claim range and then just decide if we still think they should die or something like that.
Speaking of: UNVOTE
Silver has looked fine.
Hunger also looks ok.
I (obviously) have no real opinion on the role PM thing. But don't most mods give some sort of false claim?
I have some new thoughts, but they are not particularly insightful or groundbreaking. Just waiting on lurkers.
Also my new avatar is delightful.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Curiosity killed the cat. But for awhile, I was a suspect.
Anyway I'm going to have to spend a bunch of time rereading the past two pages 0.0
I didn't really expect this D1 Shame the only thing I can claim is freedom I feel slightly upset that someone gets to be neutral and the super awesome main character too, but I've only been in games with neutral sk's so I don't know how this is gonna work out
TOWN
Seppel - I'm invincible
Silver - for not cracking under pressure, as well as the whole Town ____ thing.
Bloscovi - The heart of the role PM outing
8. Mindreaver - for speculating deeply on this ("Mine says specifically you are a member of the town, and that I work for the good guys. It doesn't say townie, which is what proph claimed above, nor does my role name say Town _____ like silver claimed.")
TappingStones - Finally made a townpost. Maybe I'll find it.
Proph - for dredging up Hunt's meta
LUVNAHS
GJ
NAG
DUNNO
imabusinessman - Hasn't ruined the game enough to be a townclear.
Jobie - I literally haven't seen a post from Jobie.
Brinatoo - Still a mystery.
Kraj - Haven't read any of his posts.
Ghosting - I only have him marked as "not scum with Bloscovi or GJ" which is irrelevant now.
SCUM
Matowar - Even for the "America" roleplaying, he's not acting at all like his previous game. He's talking *about* people instead of *to* people, repeatedly.
Huntzilla - Proph confirms that this is Hunt's scum meta.
Hunger - Has been desperately trying to do damage control for all the role PM shenanigans.
Wow. Only 5 people whose alignments are unknown. Nice.
TOWN
Seppel - I'm invincible
Silver - for not cracking under pressure, as well as the whole Town ____ thing.
Bloscovi - The heart of the role PM outing
8. Mindreaver - for speculating deeply on this ("Mine says specifically you are a member of the town, and that I work for the good guys. It doesn't say townie, which is what proph claimed above, nor does my role name say Town _____ like silver claimed.")
TappingStones - Finally made a townpost. Maybe I'll find it.
Proph - for dredging up Hunt's meta
LUVNAHS
GJ
NAG
DUNNO
imabusinessman - Hasn't ruined the game enough to be a townclear.
Jobie - I literally haven't seen a post from Jobie.
Brinatoo - Still a mystery.
Kraj - Haven't read any of his posts.
Ghosting - I only have him marked as "not scum with Bloscovi or GJ" which is irrelevant now.
SCUM
Matowar - Even for the "America" roleplaying, he's not acting at all like his previous game. He's talking *about* people instead of *to* people, repeatedly.
Huntzilla - Proph confirms that this is Hunt's scum meta.
Hunger - Has been desperately trying to do damage control for all the role PM shenanigans.
Wow. Only 5 people whose alignments are unknown. Nice.
Ghosting I want dead. There's probably 2 scum in Hunger, Jobie, Kraj, IMAB.
This assumes 4 scum though. I guess I could see a 3-man scum team if our lovers are both neutral.
If I had to pick one semi-consensus town read who might be scum, I'd probably say Tapping.
Too many posts where it feels like he's being the Good Little Townie and trying to do what he thinks he should be doing. Combine this with his reads that were pretty different from mine, and the early game jumping on James Bond thing, and I could absolutely see him being a 'deep cover' scum.
I think it's more likely he's just kind of...unique town, though, so I don't really want to pursue it. It's just that niggling thought in the back of my mind that I don't want to dismiss completely.
Electricity is back on, went out day after wifi which was incredibly inconvenient. I'm reading backwards and on my phone right now so just wanted to point out that this logic is horribly flawed: essentially, you're saying that me acting so town makes me scum, simply because you think so. This is nothing more than a gut read you attempted to thrown an explanation behind that considers no objective of provable rational. Additionally, I've said maybe...5? Posts in this game, and for you to push on that reason alone continuously to me just points negatively in your favour.
Also, do you have any response to me behaving the same way as town in my most recent game, where I was also called scummy for doing the exact same thing?
Your third reason isn't even true: me jumping on the James Bond thing? I literally did the exact opposite of that, lol. I was telling tom (I think it was tom?) that there's no point pushing it further and that it's basically a waste of time and only worse if Bond is town. So I don't understand why you made that up, unless I'm misinterpreting what you are saying.
Your reasons boil down to:
1) Acting too town
2) Different reads on the first 3 pages of a game
3) Something that isn't true (how you said I was on the Bond thing)
This doesn't necessarily mean I think you're scum, but pushing a wagon on a player based on maybe 5 posts who hasn't posted in forever for 3 incredible flawed reasons is certainly a push I find fallacious.
I would genuinely love some more discussion with you though Bosc, I find that a lot of my most solid town reads come from when I get tunneled and end up getting a lot of back and forth in. So feel free to ask whayever, it'll also help guide my reading, since I've read nothing more than this page since I have come back lol.
I would genuinely love some more discussion with you though Bosc, I find that a lot of my most solid town reads come from when I get tunneled and end up getting a lot of back and forth in. So feel free to ask whayever, it'll also help guide my reading, since I've read nothing more than this page since I have come back lol.
@Ghosting
Catch up completely and give us a reasoned T/S list.
@Ghosting:
Any chance of a catch up post soonish? We could use a T/S list and some comments on recent events.
Working on it tonight, I promise! I feel really bad for being as horribly inactive as I've been, it was a hue culmination of awesome weekend followed by lots of inconvenience and sickness (caught strep, wifi modem broke, electricity went out, two physics tests and a Chem test, etc.).
Bloscovi's reasons were talking about TappingStones, not you.
Ooooh, lol. I'm on my phone rn and when I clicked the quote button, it made it look like he was talking about me. Playing mafia and driving is not the best idea.
As Proph said, that reasoning was not for you. It was in response to his hypothetical of 'if there is a deep cover scum, who is it, and why?' or such.
I want you dead because I don't believe that back and forth early game about TCM comes from town. It reads like you knew both TCM and I were town.
And the fact that I have town reads on everyone but 4-5 players makes me perfectly fine with keeping my vote on you. Even if you'd made zero posts this game you'd be likely scum due to that.
As Proph said, that reasoning was not for you. It was in response to his hypothetical of 'if there is a deep cover scum, who is it, and why?' or such.
I want you dead because I don't believe that back and forth early game about TCM comes from town. It reads like you knew both TCM and I were town.
And the fact that I have town reads on everyone but 4-5 players makes me perfectly fine with keeping my vote on you. Even if you'd made zero posts this game you'd be likely scum due to that.
Yeah I'm sorry about that man, like I said was playing on my phone while driving lol.
Can you elaborate on how the interactions read in a way that indicated I'm aware of your alignments? I appreciate the reasoning, would just like some clarification. Are there any specific posts that you think are a good example of what you're saying?
I see now that everyone's saying the numerous town reads thing, so with process of elimination, I definitely see why you're saying that now.
Do you have any other reasons? I'm still reading, but this gives me a chance to provide a little input while I am doing my notes and reading.
Bloscovi's reasons were talking about TappingStones, not you.
@Proph-Can you please seperate yourself from Blos...for at least a little bit? If you are free enough to jump onto that then why aren't you free enough to read the game over. You said you are being lazy, but obviously you are reading the new posts so why aren't you contributing or scum hunting? For you it's literally just tunneling Ghosting today?
That's also kind of a misrepresentation of what I was saying, though.
I was saying I can see a world where Tapping is scum, and is trying a little too hard to be seen as town, rather than it being naturally occurring. That's entirely different from what you said.
Like, I'm reading the post of mine you quoted, and then reading your response and just going
That's also kind of a misrepresentation of what I was saying, though.
I was saying I can see a world where Tapping is scum, and is trying a little too hard to be seen as town, rather than it being naturally occurring. That's entirely different from what you said.
Like, I'm reading the post of mine you quoted, and then reading your response and just going
???
to be honest I think Blos choosing me in that spot is a fairly natural response for paranoid town. I had no problem with it at all. I would hope that if it came down to it that he would actually try to lynch someone based on reasoning though and not something like TS is trying to hard to win the game. I mean it's a little silly to suggest that me playing hard to win, which I'm known to do is somehow now scummy. I bet I'm likely to do it as either alignment because I think being active is not only the best way to find scum but the best way for the other players to understand you better.
If you're scum the more you post the more likely you are to slip as you need to craft so much of your writing. Introspectively I think if I was scum I would try to post enough so that people thought that I was being normal but not so much that I'd be likely to blunder away the role. Moving along.
@Blos-What do you think about Proph saying he feels lazy this game but every post of his is a barn of you or something against Ghosting? Are you guys wed at the hip? Do we have two pairs of "lovers"?
@Proph-Can you please seperate yourself from Blos...for at least a little bit? If you are free enough to jump onto that then why aren't you free enough to read the game over. You said you are being lazy, but obviously you are reading the new posts so why aren't you contributing or scum hunting? For you it's literally just tunneling Ghosting today?
Rereading the game takes time and motivation. It's something I'll get to, but it's far easier to read the thread looking at new posts and responding to them (ie coasting).
My 6-7 post stretch from yesterday wasn't contributing or scumhunting to you? I was engaging with a lot of players yesterday which really helped me solidify my reads. Classifying all of my posts as "just tunneling Ghosting" feels like a strawman argument to me.
I've talked about why I think you're scum a few times, you'll see it as you read through.
I don't really like engaging with people I think are scum, because I mean... I'm not going to convince you you're scum. I'll talk about my reads or your reads on any other player, but have no interest in discussing your alignment with you.
It really just boils down to it reading like you saw me town read TCM, and you went 'Wow, well done fellow townie on identifying that fellow town of ours!'
Especially given you said a few posts after that you hate reads with no reasoning.
There was too much depth to the read on TCM for it to come from town given the amount of content TCM posted.
(There's also the fact that your wagon has generated zero traction, despite me effectively taking full responsibility for it. If you were town, why are scum not going 'Hm. Yeah, I can see your point, this seems like an okay direction to go)
I've talked about why I think you're scum a few times, you'll see it as you read through.
I don't really like engaging with people I think are scum, because I mean... I'm not going to convince you you're scum. I'll talk about my reads or your reads on any other player, but have no interest in discussing your alignment with you.
It really just boils down to it reading like you saw me town read TCM, and you went 'Wow, well done fellow townie on identifying that fellow town of ours!'
Especially given you said a few posts after that you hate reads with no reasoning.
There was too much depth to the read on TCM for it to come from town given the amount of content TCM posted.
(There's also the fact that your wagon has generated zero traction, despite me effectively taking full responsibility for it. If you were town, why are scum not going 'Hm. Yeah, I can see your point, this seems like an okay direction to go)
Why aren't you considering that scum might have been on other wagons and maybe didn't want to hop around? You've repeatedly mentioned that somehow you and Proph tunneling Ghosting and no one agreeing with you is some sort of validation. the scum might have taken a stab at my wagon, or Hunt, Mato, or whoever else had votes on them.
That's also kind of a misrepresentation of what I was saying, though.
I was saying I can see a world where Tapping is scum, and is trying a little too hard to be seen as town, rather than it being naturally occurring. That's entirely different from what you said.
Like, I'm reading the post of mine you quoted, and then reading your response and just going
???
to be honest I think Blos choosing me in that spot is a fairly natural response for paranoid town. I had no problem with it at all. I would hope that if it came down to it that he would actually try to lynch someone based on reasoning though and not something like TS is trying to hard to win the game. I mean it's a little silly to suggest that me playing hard to win, which I'm known to do is somehow now scummy. I bet I'm likely to do it as either alignment because I think being active is not only the best way to find scum but the best way for the other players to understand you better.
If you're scum the more you post the more likely you are to slip as you need to craft so much of your writing. Introspectively I think if I was scum I would try to post enough so that people thought that I was being normal but not so much that I'd be likely to blunder away the role. Moving along.
@Blos-What do you think about Proph saying he feels lazy this game but every post of his is a barn of you or something against Ghosting? Are you guys wed at the hip? Do we have two pairs of "lovers"?
You misunderstand. I'm not saying you playing hard is scummy.
I'm saying that some of your posts feel like there is more sizzle than steak, maybe? Like, if I tilt my head, I get the vibe that you're posting some of your posts to make yourself look town, rather than it being a natural post that you'd make as town. It's hard to articulate, but it's an over-arching feel I've gotten from some of your play that isn't strong enough for me to want to pursue it, but it's still there.
With regards to Proph, it's kind of unfortunate, and it makes reading him a pain in the ass, but being lazy and falling off from strong starts is something Proph does. As both alignments.
And is why he repeatedly gets mislynched.
I don't think he's a good lynch or even pressure target day one though. The key is just going to be to track his engagement and effort as the game goes on, and how he responds to new information/flips being presented.
I'll be up front and say my read on him isn't as strong as I may indicate, but I don't think he's someone that an accurate read will be formed on by pressuring him, because he kind of implodes as either alignment.
I'm mildly annoyed at the 'Wow, this game sure is an echo chamber' while attempting to do nothing to change that fact, as well as dodging the request to talk about Brinatoo, but they're lazy tells rather than scum tells.
Realistically it's probably a /town/ lazy tell, because I feel like as scum he'd put in a token effort rather than just admit that he's being lazy. Perception, and such.
That's also kind of a misrepresentation of what I was saying, though.
I was saying I can see a world where Tapping is scum, and is trying a little too hard to be seen as town, rather than it being naturally occurring. That's entirely different from what you said.
Like, I'm reading the post of mine you quoted, and then reading your response and just going
???
to be honest I think Blos choosing me in that spot is a fairly natural response for paranoid town. I had no problem with it at all. I would hope that if it came down to it that he would actually try to lynch someone based on reasoning though and not something like TS is trying to hard to win the game. I mean it's a little silly to suggest that me playing hard to win, which I'm known to do is somehow now scummy. I bet I'm likely to do it as either alignment because I think being active is not only the best way to find scum but the best way for the other players to understand you better.
If you're scum the more you post the more likely you are to slip as you need to craft so much of your writing. Introspectively I think if I was scum I would try to post enough so that people thought that I was being normal but not so much that I'd be likely to blunder away the role. Moving along.
@Blos-What do you think about Proph saying he feels lazy this game but every post of his is a barn of you or something against Ghosting? Are you guys wed at the hip? Do we have two pairs of "lovers"?
You misunderstand. I'm not saying you playing hard is scummy.
I'm saying that some of your posts feel like there is more sizzle than steak, maybe? Like, if I tilt my head, I get the vibe that you're posting some of your posts to make yourself look town, rather than it being a natural post that you'd make as town. It's hard to articulate, but it's an over-arching feel I've gotten from some of your play that isn't strong enough for me to want to pursue it, but it's still there.
With regards to Proph, it's kind of unfortunate, and it makes reading him a pain in the ass, but being lazy and falling off from strong starts is something Proph does. As both alignments.
And is why he repeatedly gets mislynched.
I don't think he's a good lynch or even pressure target day one though. The key is just going to be to track his engagement and effort as the game goes on, and how he responds to new information/flips being presented.
I'll be up front and say my read on him isn't as strong as I may indicate, but I don't think he's someone that an accurate read will be formed on by pressuring him, because he kind of implodes as either alignment.
I'm mildly annoyed at the 'Wow, this game sure is an echo chamber' while attempting to do nothing to change that fact, as well as dodging the request to talk about Brinatoo, but they're lazy tells rather than scum tells.
Realistically it's probably a /town/ lazy tell, because I feel like as scum he'd put in a token effort rather than just admit that he's being lazy. Perception, and such.
Yeah, that actually all sounds reasonable. I guess someone keeping a high post count while still claiming to be lazy is annoying. Especially as a veteran player I would think if he has the time to post and keep up with the game but just makes all his posts a variation on "I agree with Blos" and "I want Ghosting dead" is unfortunate.
On a seperate note I really don't like Mato's response to the prod. Hop in, say something nervous, add a bunch of emoticons and not leave anything substantive.
Did you play with him in Twinborn? I can't remember I just reread Proph in that game I know Hunger was there.
I've talked about why I think you're scum a few times, you'll see it as you read through.
I don't really like engaging with people I think are scum, because I mean... I'm not going to convince you you're scum. I'll talk about my reads or your reads on any other player, but have no interest in discussing your alignment with you.
It really just boils down to it reading like you saw me town read TCM, and you went 'Wow, well done fellow townie on identifying that fellow town of ours!'
Especially given you said a few posts after that you hate reads with no reasoning.
There was too much depth to the read on TCM for it to come from town given the amount of content TCM posted.
(There's also the fact that your wagon has generated zero traction, despite me effectively taking full responsibility for it. If you were town, why are scum not going 'Hm. Yeah, I can see your point, this seems like an okay direction to go)
Why aren't you considering that scum might have been on other wagons and maybe didn't want to hop around? You've repeatedly mentioned that somehow you and Proph tunneling Ghosting and no one agreeing with you is some sort of validation. the scum might have taken a stab at my wagon, or Hunt, Mato, or whoever else had votes on them.
It's possible, sure. But none of those wagons have gotten any traction, either.
It's not an absolute case of 'No one is piling onto Ghosting, this makes him scum', it's a case of 'The fact that scum aren't hopping on the wagon that is being driven by town, that they don't even have to really justify the vote for, just /barn the reasoning, makes him more likely scum than he'd be otherwise'.
@Ghosting
I've talked about why I think you're scum a few times, you'll see it as you read through.
I don't really like engaging with people I think are scum, because I mean... I'm not going to convince you you're scum. I'll talk about my reads or your reads on any other player, but have no interest in discussing your alignment with you.
Right, but I definitely want to talk to you. I'm not trying to be convinced I'm scum, I'm trying to interact and respond to your views on me because you have said I'm scum. It only makes sense to respond to that and for us to interact as a result, and maybe you'll end up convinced. If nothing I say could make you think I'm town, that'd be a pretty hard-headed view to have; obviously, tunnel visioning isn't a good quality, so you should also want to discuss to further verify or disprove your view of me. So I am all for us talking.
It really just boils down to it reading like you saw me town read TCM, and you went 'Wow, well done fellow townie on identifying that fellow town of ours!'
Can you quote where I said this, like I asked? I want you to show me actual posts and not just "oh I read it this way". What did I say that actually made you think that's? Do you think that early on I should've had something more substantial to say? Do you see this scenario as impossible for town?
Especially given you said a few posts after that you hate reads with no reasoning.
Right, and I provided reads for everything. Why would you misrepresent that I didn't?
There was too much depth to the read on TCM for it to come from town given the amount of content TCM posted.
Too much depth? Care to elaborate? It was like a two sentence read if I recall, and certainly wasn't solidified. If you can quote and explain this excessive depth, maybe it'll be more clear, but it seems that this far your excuses are exaggerated, untrue, or misrepresented.
(There's also the fact that your wagon has generated zero traction, despite me effectively taking full responsibility for it. If you were town, why are scum not going 'Hm. Yeah, I can see your point, this seems like an okay direction to go)
Alternatively, the wagon may have no traction because of how few posts I've posted, my v/la status, people not agreeing, other wagons being present, etc. There's a million scenarios and yours seems to be the least rational.
On a seperate note I really don't like Mato's response to the prod. Hop in, say something nervous, add a bunch of emoticons and not leave anything substantive.
Did you play with him in Twinborn? I can't remember I just reread Proph in that game I know Hunger was there.
I have not read Twinborn.
Every instinct I have is telling me he's scum for his most recent post, but I think that might be an inherent bias against emoticons in general.
My thing with Mato is, if he's scum, this is his first scum game.
2. I'm pretty vocally against reads without reasons as I feel that it allows scum to casually buddy/cast suspicion without legitimate reason. It also helps me when I reference my own posts to see why I was thinking what I was thinking.
Quote from Ghosting »
I think you, Mato, and GJ are town.
Mindreaver jumped from Hardwood to TS pretty quickly and retracted his vote from Hardwood by saying "I guess RVS is over, so Unvote", when his vote on Hardwood wasn't an RVS vote. So I'm curious his reasoning for that.
TS always is hard to read for me so I'm not sure where I stand on him, typically I find he reads very natural as town.
Hardwood seems town.
I might be reading this very superficially, but you stated that you were against reads without reasoning, then when I asked you what your views of the gamestate was you pulled out.. reads without reasoning. Can you clarify that?
The bolded is accurate. My biggest weakness is that I get mislynched far too often for an experienced player (heck, I wouldn't even call myself experienced, as there are a ton of players better than me, but I chug along and do what I can).
Don't put off the Brinatoo thing forever, please.
I have stuff I want to talk about wrt him, but don't want to until you post.
If you have too many town reads and need to re-evaluate, looking at someone whose posts you haven't even read seems like the logical start.
I wanted to know what you would get out of me answering the question because if I had a big post and deleted it and had to ask three questions to get caught back up in the game, the question "How are you feeling about this game?" wouldn't be one of the questions I would ask. I was just struggling to see in my brain, if I put myself in your shoes, how my answer would tell you much of anything.
However, your connection to Twinborn makes sense, and I'd actually say that I feel similar to my Twinborn self now this game, with the exception of me being active and engaged in this one. The reason for this is that I'm at a similar point I was in Day 1 of Twinborn, where I have a bunch of mild light town reads yet no solid scum suspects. If you remember any of my posts in Twinborn I was lacking conviction on anybody and I think it's similar in this game as well. The only person I have a legit scumread on is Ghosting, and that's because Bloscovi convinced me to stay on his wagon (if he wasn't there, I would back off on Ghosting due to his questions post).
Mine says specifically you are a member of the town, and that I work for the good guys. It doesn't say townie, which is what proph claimed above, nor does my role name say Town _____ like silver claimed.
But I'm satisfied with Blos now, that "Good Guys" thing was the real deal.
That part, for ease of reference.
Because if he's scum, he knows I'm town, and he does not come in as scum, when someone he knows is town is saying otherwise, and straight up claim his role is Town X.
Like, there's a tiny chance he has the balls for that if his role is Mafia X and he gambles, but I don't see it.
Anyone else it's relatively easy to hop on the 'Wow, yep, there sure is wackiness afoot!' bandwagon, so it's null.
Like I said to Hunger, I have a lot of light town reads right now and it's making me worried because this was similar to Twinborn, where I also had a lot of light town reads and zero conviction on any scum. I think the major takeaway from this is that most of the scum are probably lurking.
(Also, I'll get to your Brinatoo exercise tonight, a full PBPA I don't really have the time/motivation for right now)
@Proph - OK. I could buy that as being your mindset. I do remember you saying the exact same thing in that game about having too many town reads.
Uh.
I don't have a scum team locked in or anything.
Ghosting I want dead. There's probably 2 scum in Hunger, Jobie, Kraj, IMAB.
This assumes 4 scum though. I guess I could see a 3-man scum team if our lovers are both neutral.
If I had to pick one semi-consensus town read who might be scum, I'd probably say Tapping.
Too many posts where it feels like he's being the Good Little Townie and trying to do what he thinks he should be doing. Combine this with his reads that were pretty different from mine, and the early game jumping on James Bond thing, and I could absolutely see him being a 'deep cover' scum.
I think it's more likely he's just kind of...unique town, though, so I don't really want to pursue it. It's just that niggling thought in the back of my mind that I don't want to dismiss completely.
I echo with you on Tapping in that he might be the Rodemy of the game, but that's obviously something that we figure out on Day 4 if both of us are still alive rather than Day 1, with zero flips.
But hopefully the third of the game that isn't playing starts to play so I have something more interesting than the same 4-5 people talking to themselves to come back to.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That's the line that stood out for me. You asked which of the three wagon's he'd kill if the "deadline was right now", then this line was in your response.
I can't tell if you're trying to send a message that you're a vig and if blos really wants somebody dead, you'll do it (breadcrumbing), just trying to befriend Blos by asking him who he wants to kill (Buddying), or if you're trying to see if Proph or Blos is actually a vig and you can trick them into selecting who their target will be (fishing).
I thought it was suspicious, because I just finished saying "why are you speculating on vig kills?" and you came in with "Who do you want dead, if the day ended now blos?"
So do you consider the fact that some people know who you are and the rest of us don't a fair way to play the game? I certainly think Proph and whoever else knows who you are have a distinct and unfair advantage,
Well, we might as well be town at this stage. Claiming this made me more likely to be killed by town vig/lynch, but pre claim, I was more scared of being killed. I have been drawing a few night 1 kills when town lately (Stargate, Praetor, True Name).
We do. We can win with either team, but lose regardless if one of us dies. Since the chance of being nightkilled is now close to zero, best interest to help the town.
Not that I am nitpicking, but the scum have zero motivation to kill us. We can win with them. For what it's worth though, I intend to scum hunt, as I would rather not eat a vig shot or lynch.
I want to see prodded players react more. Also unless I missed a vacation call, ghosting disappearing is making me more intrigued in that route. Still feeling good about Proph/Mindreaver right now. Hunger and TS are lean town as well.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Gonna wait and see if Jobie/Kraj/Ghosting show up.
Or, you could put some work in looking at your light town reads.
Or Brinatoo.
If you try to coast I will make you dead.
Yeah, I will put effort into this game sooner or later. But for right now, I'm just enjoying these back and forths with you, Hunger, and others.
We might not have that luxury. Deadline is Sunday isn't it?
Now that I figured out what is going on, do you want to actually play as neutral?
We could withhold our votes until someone gets to claim range and then just decide if we still think they should die or something like that.
Speaking of:
UNVOTE
Silver has looked fine.
Hunger also looks ok.
I (obviously) have no real opinion on the role PM thing. But don't most mods give some sort of false claim?
I have some new thoughts, but they are not particularly insightful or groundbreaking. Just waiting on lurkers.
Also my new avatar is delightful.
Matowar my read on you is dropping dramatically.
TOWN
Seppel - I'm invincible
Silver - for not cracking under pressure, as well as the whole Town ____ thing.
Bloscovi - The heart of the role PM outing
8. Mindreaver - for speculating deeply on this ("Mine says specifically you are a member of the town, and that I work for the good guys. It doesn't say townie, which is what proph claimed above, nor does my role name say Town _____ like silver claimed.")
TappingStones - Finally made a townpost. Maybe I'll find it.
Proph - for dredging up Hunt's meta
LUVNAHS
GJ
NAG
DUNNO
imabusinessman - Hasn't ruined the game enough to be a townclear.
Jobie - I literally haven't seen a post from Jobie.
Brinatoo - Still a mystery.
Kraj - Haven't read any of his posts.
Ghosting - I only have him marked as "not scum with Bloscovi or GJ" which is irrelevant now.
SCUM
Matowar - Even for the "America" roleplaying, he's not acting at all like his previous game. He's talking *about* people instead of *to* people, repeatedly.
Huntzilla - Proph confirms that this is Hunt's scum meta.
Hunger - Has been desperately trying to do damage control for all the role PM shenanigans.
Wow. Only 5 people whose alignments are unknown. Nice.
Oh, and unvote, vote Huntzilla
TOWN
Seppel - I'm invincible
Silver - for not cracking under pressure, as well as the whole Town ____ thing.
Bloscovi - The heart of the role PM outing
8. Mindreaver - for speculating deeply on this ("Mine says specifically you are a member of the town, and that I work for the good guys. It doesn't say townie, which is what proph claimed above, nor does my role name say Town _____ like silver claimed.")
TappingStones - Finally made a townpost. Maybe I'll find it.
Proph - for dredging up Hunt's meta
LUVNAHS
GJ
NAG
DUNNO
imabusinessman - Hasn't ruined the game enough to be a townclear.
Jobie - I literally haven't seen a post from Jobie.
Brinatoo - Still a mystery.
Kraj - Haven't read any of his posts.
Ghosting - I only have him marked as "not scum with Bloscovi or GJ" which is irrelevant now.
SCUM
Matowar - Even for the "America" roleplaying, he's not acting at all like his previous game. He's talking *about* people instead of *to* people, repeatedly.
Huntzilla - Proph confirms that this is Hunt's scum meta.
Hunger - Has been desperately trying to do damage control for all the role PM shenanigans.
Wow. Only 5 people whose alignments are unknown. Nice.
Oh, and unvote, vote Huntzilla
I will reread in the next 24-48 hours and get back to all y'all.
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
Electricity is back on, went out day after wifi which was incredibly inconvenient. I'm reading backwards and on my phone right now so just wanted to point out that this logic is horribly flawed: essentially, you're saying that me acting so town makes me scum, simply because you think so. This is nothing more than a gut read you attempted to thrown an explanation behind that considers no objective of provable rational. Additionally, I've said maybe...5? Posts in this game, and for you to push on that reason alone continuously to me just points negatively in your favour.
Also, do you have any response to me behaving the same way as town in my most recent game, where I was also called scummy for doing the exact same thing?
Your third reason isn't even true: me jumping on the James Bond thing? I literally did the exact opposite of that, lol. I was telling tom (I think it was tom?) that there's no point pushing it further and that it's basically a waste of time and only worse if Bond is town. So I don't understand why you made that up, unless I'm misinterpreting what you are saying.
Your reasons boil down to:
1) Acting too town
2) Different reads on the first 3 pages of a game
3) Something that isn't true (how you said I was on the Bond thing)
This doesn't necessarily mean I think you're scum, but pushing a wagon on a player based on maybe 5 posts who hasn't posted in forever for 3 incredible flawed reasons is certainly a push I find fallacious.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Um.
Bloscovi's reasons were talking about TappingStones, not you.
@Ghosting
Catch up completely and give us a reasoned T/S list.
Working on it tonight, I promise! I feel really bad for being as horribly inactive as I've been, it was a hue culmination of awesome weekend followed by lots of inconvenience and sickness (caught strep, wifi modem broke, electricity went out, two physics tests and a Chem test, etc.).
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Ooooh, lol. I'm on my phone rn and when I clicked the quote button, it made it look like he was talking about me. Playing mafia and driving is not the best idea.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
As Proph said, that reasoning was not for you. It was in response to his hypothetical of 'if there is a deep cover scum, who is it, and why?' or such.
I want you dead because I don't believe that back and forth early game about TCM comes from town. It reads like you knew both TCM and I were town.
And the fact that I have town reads on everyone but 4-5 players makes me perfectly fine with keeping my vote on you. Even if you'd made zero posts this game you'd be likely scum due to that.
Yeah I'm sorry about that man, like I said was playing on my phone while driving lol.
Can you elaborate on how the interactions read in a way that indicated I'm aware of your alignments? I appreciate the reasoning, would just like some clarification. Are there any specific posts that you think are a good example of what you're saying?
I see now that everyone's saying the numerous town reads thing, so with process of elimination, I definitely see why you're saying that now.
Do you have any other reasons? I'm still reading, but this gives me a chance to provide a little input while I am doing my notes and reading.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
@Proph-Can you please seperate yourself from Blos...for at least a little bit? If you are free enough to jump onto that then why aren't you free enough to read the game over. You said you are being lazy, but obviously you are reading the new posts so why aren't you contributing or scum hunting? For you it's literally just tunneling Ghosting today?
I was saying I can see a world where Tapping is scum, and is trying a little too hard to be seen as town, rather than it being naturally occurring. That's entirely different from what you said.
Like, I'm reading the post of mine you quoted, and then reading your response and just going
???
I refresh and there's no posts, so I hit post reply, and then randomly posts show up 3 minutes later from 5 minutes ago.
to be honest I think Blos choosing me in that spot is a fairly natural response for paranoid town. I had no problem with it at all. I would hope that if it came down to it that he would actually try to lynch someone based on reasoning though and not something like TS is trying to hard to win the game. I mean it's a little silly to suggest that me playing hard to win, which I'm known to do is somehow now scummy. I bet I'm likely to do it as either alignment because I think being active is not only the best way to find scum but the best way for the other players to understand you better.
If you're scum the more you post the more likely you are to slip as you need to craft so much of your writing. Introspectively I think if I was scum I would try to post enough so that people thought that I was being normal but not so much that I'd be likely to blunder away the role. Moving along.
@Blos-What do you think about Proph saying he feels lazy this game but every post of his is a barn of you or something against Ghosting? Are you guys wed at the hip? Do we have two pairs of "lovers"?
My 6-7 post stretch from yesterday wasn't contributing or scumhunting to you? I was engaging with a lot of players yesterday which really helped me solidify my reads. Classifying all of my posts as "just tunneling Ghosting" feels like a strawman argument to me.
I've talked about why I think you're scum a few times, you'll see it as you read through.
I don't really like engaging with people I think are scum, because I mean... I'm not going to convince you you're scum. I'll talk about my reads or your reads on any other player, but have no interest in discussing your alignment with you.
It really just boils down to it reading like you saw me town read TCM, and you went 'Wow, well done fellow townie on identifying that fellow town of ours!'
Especially given you said a few posts after that you hate reads with no reasoning.
There was too much depth to the read on TCM for it to come from town given the amount of content TCM posted.
(There's also the fact that your wagon has generated zero traction, despite me effectively taking full responsibility for it. If you were town, why are scum not going 'Hm. Yeah, I can see your point, this seems like an okay direction to go)
Why aren't you considering that scum might have been on other wagons and maybe didn't want to hop around? You've repeatedly mentioned that somehow you and Proph tunneling Ghosting and no one agreeing with you is some sort of validation. the scum might have taken a stab at my wagon, or Hunt, Mato, or whoever else had votes on them.
You misunderstand. I'm not saying you playing hard is scummy.
I'm saying that some of your posts feel like there is more sizzle than steak, maybe? Like, if I tilt my head, I get the vibe that you're posting some of your posts to make yourself look town, rather than it being a natural post that you'd make as town. It's hard to articulate, but it's an over-arching feel I've gotten from some of your play that isn't strong enough for me to want to pursue it, but it's still there.
With regards to Proph, it's kind of unfortunate, and it makes reading him a pain in the ass, but being lazy and falling off from strong starts is something Proph does. As both alignments.
And is why he repeatedly gets mislynched.
I don't think he's a good lynch or even pressure target day one though. The key is just going to be to track his engagement and effort as the game goes on, and how he responds to new information/flips being presented.
I'll be up front and say my read on him isn't as strong as I may indicate, but I don't think he's someone that an accurate read will be formed on by pressuring him, because he kind of implodes as either alignment.
I'm mildly annoyed at the 'Wow, this game sure is an echo chamber' while attempting to do nothing to change that fact, as well as dodging the request to talk about Brinatoo, but they're lazy tells rather than scum tells.
Realistically it's probably a /town/ lazy tell, because I feel like as scum he'd put in a token effort rather than just admit that he's being lazy. Perception, and such.
Yeah, that actually all sounds reasonable. I guess someone keeping a high post count while still claiming to be lazy is annoying. Especially as a veteran player I would think if he has the time to post and keep up with the game but just makes all his posts a variation on "I agree with Blos" and "I want Ghosting dead" is unfortunate.
On a seperate note I really don't like Mato's response to the prod. Hop in, say something nervous, add a bunch of emoticons and not leave anything substantive.
Did you play with him in Twinborn? I can't remember I just reread Proph in that game I know Hunger was there.
It's possible, sure. But none of those wagons have gotten any traction, either.
It's not an absolute case of 'No one is piling onto Ghosting, this makes him scum', it's a case of 'The fact that scum aren't hopping on the wagon that is being driven by town, that they don't even have to really justify the vote for, just /barn the reasoning, makes him more likely scum than he'd be otherwise'.
Just another data point, so to speak.
Right, but I definitely want to talk to you. I'm not trying to be convinced I'm scum, I'm trying to interact and respond to your views on me because you have said I'm scum. It only makes sense to respond to that and for us to interact as a result, and maybe you'll end up convinced. If nothing I say could make you think I'm town, that'd be a pretty hard-headed view to have; obviously, tunnel visioning isn't a good quality, so you should also want to discuss to further verify or disprove your view of me. So I am all for us talking.
Can you quote where I said this, like I asked? I want you to show me actual posts and not just "oh I read it this way". What did I say that actually made you think that's? Do you think that early on I should've had something more substantial to say? Do you see this scenario as impossible for town?
Right, and I provided reads for everything. Why would you misrepresent that I didn't?
Too much depth? Care to elaborate? It was like a two sentence read if I recall, and certainly wasn't solidified. If you can quote and explain this excessive depth, maybe it'll be more clear, but it seems that this far your excuses are exaggerated, untrue, or misrepresented.
Alternatively, the wagon may have no traction because of how few posts I've posted, my v/la status, people not agreeing, other wagons being present, etc. There's a million scenarios and yours seems to be the least rational.
I eagerly await your responses!
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I have not read Twinborn.
Every instinct I have is telling me he's scum for his most recent post, but I think that might be an inherent bias against emoticons in general.
My thing with Mato is, if he's scum, this is his first scum game.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/search?search-thread-id=700341&by-author=Matowar77
That's his ISO for the game.
Does first time scum come in and so aggressively role play like that, and be so blase in general?
It's a warring thing in my head where my gut screams that he's scummy, but my brain can't believe he'd post some of those posts as scum.
I think on the aggregate he's a slight town lean, but it's not strong.
Reconcile these two statements:
I might be reading this very superficially, but you stated that you were against reads without reasoning, then when I asked you what your views of the gamestate was you pulled out.. reads without reasoning. Can you clarify that?