There's a lot I don't like in tapping's posts, but hes probably just town. There's too many people he's clearly unaligned with and games just aren't that easy to solve.
I do agree with bloscovi that his list looks a little strange. But the way he just threw that list out there and challenged us to discuss it is townie in its own right.
@tapping
I'm also happy with those answers.
Well, happy isn't the right word. But they are townie answers.
Carry on.
As for your return questions, you've mentioned huntzilla (before he entered), bur, hans, rhand, oceanblack, sir chris, and tomsloger. That seems like a lot to me. (You've also talked about businessman alot, who has contributed less to this game than most of those players.)
When you add that to all the meta talk and diatribes about bad players, I was starting to think you didn't want to talk about this game.
But I'm over it.
I'm not going to respond to your return condescension, but I did enjoy the irony. Hope it was intentional.
businessman asking stupid, spammy questions about dinner and sonic is just a continuation of his persona apparently. I guess I can accept that this is how he is and he's less a mafia player than an obstacle that's sometimes in mafia games. Read is back to null. Sigh.
If we're going to do a policy lynch like the one he's currently advocating on hardwood, he seems like a better choice for the health of this game. Even has a chance to be scum. But we can probably do better than a policy lynch. unvote policy FOS: businessman
TCM is probably telling the truth, or at least part of the truth. Weird time to falseclaim.
This is a clear thought process that shows he is trying to improve his game. If he hasn't been scum before, what exactly is he trying to improve upon? He is perhaps overcorrecting for his past town play, but it is NOT scummy.
What do you think about the self awareness of him realizing that he needs to not be scummy?
That seems consistent with a new player who has been mislynched and hated it.
Which is, in turn, consistent with his play this game.
So.
Matowar is town for reasons I've stated.
Prophylaxis is town for reasons I haven't.
Huntzilla is town for trying his damndest to figure things out.
Brinatoo and kraj are town for standing their ground (credit: seppel) and trying to see eye to eye with tapping.
See above for why tapping is town.
bloscovi, seppel, and jobie are all mild townleans for good thinking.
TCM is neutral.
I still have no particularly strong scumreads, but if there are multiple scum within [businessman, ghosting, mindreaver, hardwood, hunger] I feel quite happy with where I am at right now. If anyone has a townread on any of those, please share.
My next chunk of time will be spent figuring them out. Mild leans too if I have time.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Curiosity killed the cat. But for awhile, I was a suspect.
Off the top of my head? IMAB, Mindreaver, Huntzilla. I have leaning town reads on Proph and TS.
I will post more, but I also want to take it easy. I am a little wary that too many people like me, so I am just going to claim now. I am a neutral lover who can with either team, and since I have no actual alignment, I am inclined to believe my partner doesn't either.
This actually helps my peace of mind a lot.
I've been trying to reconcile the way Ghosting town read you (I think he's very likely to be scum for it, but is never scum WITH you), with the fact that I haven't been getting town feelings from your posts in a vaccuum.
---
I believe the claim, and do not want him lynched or vigged unless numbers end up dictating it down the road. Scum in his position (generally town read, or at least under no real pressure) does not claim survivor in the way he did here.
Gut feeling: I think Hunger is very likely to be scum.
Reasoning: I have a ton of light town reads, and simply by virtue of comparison (he's true null) he looks pretty bad.
---
IMAB is obviously anti-town in behavior, and it's frustrating, but I don't want to lynch him. If I had a dayvig, he'd already be dead, mind you.
(Unless I caved in to the desire to kill Tapping for reasons not remotely related to my thoughts on his alignment)
My problem with IMAB is the warring WiFOM thought process behind his behavior.
1. Scum wouldn't be so brazen.
2. Yeah, but he knows scum usually wouldn't act this way, so it's an easy way to play it.
He strikes me as the type of player who is generally pretty anti-town as town, but also strikes me as the type of player who absolutely would straight up claim that they'll be lurking and take conversation off on unrelated tangents as scum, to cheekily rub their alignment in the threads' face.
I don't really know how to reconcile that, because I learn nothing from interacting with him (or even watching others futilely try to interact with him). I just want him dead, eventually, no matter what.
You looked at that early interaction between Myself, Proph, Ghosting, and TCM.
Take a closer look at it.
I did not have a strong town read on TCM - it's nothing I could articulate, just a vague 'I don't really think he does this as scum', but I threw it out there to generate reactions.
I acknowledge I might be falling into confirmation bias, though, where Ghosting gave me exactly the kind of reaction I'd expect scum to give me. Well, one of the two reactions.
I was looking for someone that either:
1. Fought with the town read out of principle, rather than seeking understanding.
or
2. Someone that agreed with the town read in a manner that showed they knew that he was town.
Ghosting over-explained the town read in a way that feels like he just made things up to justify the town read. It's too many words - too much justification, for what little TCM had said to that point. I don't think it's possible for a town member to have that kind of depth in a read based on the content TCM had.
So it was a case of Ghosting seeing me calling TCM probably town, and jumping in to go 'Why yes, fellow town member, congratulations on identifying another town! Hah hah.'
Maybe not quite that awkward. But close.
He addressed me like he knew I was town, who had a town read on someone that he knew was town.
I don't even want to re-read this game let alone read another game.
Dammit Sepple.
(I'll probably take a look at it in next day or two, but I stand by the fact that I don't think town has that much to say about TCM being town based on the amount of content he'd generated to that point)
(Also, Seppel is very probably town for 352. I don't he posts that so blase-ly if he's scum with Ghosting, or without)
Gut feeling: I think Hunger is very likely to be scum.
Reasoning: I have a ton of light town reads, and simply by virtue of comparison (he's true null) he looks pretty bad.
---
IMAB is obviously anti-town in behavior, and it's frustrating, but I don't want to lynch him. If I had a dayvig, he'd already be dead, mind you.
(Unless I caved in to the desire to kill Tapping for reasons not remotely related to my thoughts on his alignment)
My problem with IMAB is the warring WiFOM thought process behind his behavior.
1. Scum wouldn't be so brazen.
2. Yeah, but he knows scum usually wouldn't act this way, so it's an easy way to play it.
He strikes me as the type of player who is generally pretty anti-town as town, but also strikes me as the type of player who absolutely would straight up claim that they'll be lurking and take conversation off on unrelated tangents as scum, to cheekily rub their alignment in the threads' face.
I don't really know how to reconcile that, because I learn nothing from interacting with him (or even watching others futilely try to interact with him). I just want him dead, eventually, no matter what.
Interesting...I would still say he's added as much useful analysis to the game as you have.
Are you able to walk me through your reasoning as to why Brinatoo is a decently strong town read? I haven't been able to get to his posts yet, but his posts so far aren't moving me one way or another.
Plus, what do you think of Ghosting's question time post in #144? I was considering unvoting Ghosting for that since the questions were decently strong, but I still want to keep it on there for [reasons].
Quote from Gentleman Johnny »
I will post more, but I also want to take it easy. I am a little wary that too many people like me, so I am just going to claim now. I am a neutral lover who can with either team, and since I have no actual alignment, I am inclined to believe my partner doesn't either.
I believe this claim pretty strongly - there is absolutely no way GJ posts this as scum, since he already has a lot of people townreading him already.
Quote from gimmick »
There's a lot I don't like in tapping's posts, but hes probably just town. There's too many people he's clearly unaligned with and games just aren't that easy to solve.
I agree with this as well. There will probably come a time where TappingStones rolls scum and fools us all.. but then we can just do interaction analysis like we did in Star Wars and kind of rout the scumteam, so.
not a gimmick's most recent post is basically where I am, actually. I don't have a lot of strong scumreads (there's Ghosting but he hasn't posted in a while) but I do have a lot of townreads of varying strengths. I'll help not a gimmick assemble a stronger box than the one he already has.
GJ is at the very least not-mafia for the way he claimed. Don't feel like putting him in the neutral pile so he's still in the townbloc, despite not being town.
Kraj has displayed critical thinking and incredulity, even if he's pushing on people who I think are town.
TappingStones is here for the way he reacted to pressure. I also agree with not a gimmick about TS's way of presenting his reads feels town, even if they stand in direct opposition to our own.
Huntzilla is town for how thoughtful his posts are. They're a remarkable change from past games, but reading them in a vacuum it feels townie.
Bloscovi is here because Ghosting and [reasons].
Mindreaver is town because of the "Sheeple" thing which makes him slightly more town than not, and "I am town this game, you can take that to the bank". Ignoring posts like these almost cost me another game so I'm determined not to, at this rate. I have some slight reservations on this read since not a gimmick's "caught for the wrong reasons" can sort of apply, but that's a drop in the bucket compared to the townie things Mindreaver has done.
I am piggybacking on the townreads on Brinatoo and Seppel. I can sort of see why Seppel is town when he said "Hey I found a scum" which reads as somewhat mild conviction. Brinatoo... still haven't looked at his posts, and I should, but I trust Bloscovi to give me a good answer and not a gimmick's own read on Brinatoo.
So. Lynch/vig through this pile, profit? I'm pretty sure there's scum hiding in my townreads, but we can examine that later I guess.
GJ is at the very least not-mafia for the way he claimed. Don't feel like putting him in the neutral pile so he's still in the townbloc, despite not being town.
Kraj has displayed critical thinking and incredulity, even if he's pushing on people who I think are town.
TappingStones is here for the way he reacted to pressure. I also agree with not a gimmick about TS's way of presenting his reads feels town, even if they stand in direct opposition to our own.
Huntzilla is town for how thoughtful his posts are. They're a remarkable change from past games, but reading them in a vacuum it feels townie.
Bloscovi is here because Ghosting and [reasons].
Mindreaver is town because of the "Sheeple" thing which makes him slightly more town than not, and "I am town this game, you can take that to the bank". Ignoring posts like these almost cost me another game so I'm determined not to, at this rate. I have some slight reservations on this read since not a gimmick's "caught for the wrong reasons" can sort of apply, but that's a drop in the bucket compared to the townie things Mindreaver has done.
I am piggybacking on the townreads on Brinatoo and Seppel. I can sort of see why Seppel is town when he said "Hey I found a scum" which reads as somewhat mild conviction. Brinatoo... still haven't looked at his posts, and I should, but I trust Bloscovi to give me a good answer and not a gimmick's own read on Brinatoo.
So. Lynch/vig through this pile, profit? I'm pretty sure there's scum hiding in my townreads, but we can examine that later I guess.
imabusinessman
Jobie
Hunger
Hardwood
Ghosting
If you are pretty sure that scum is hiding in your town reads then why are they your town reads? I mean I'm all for paranoia and being careful but your lynchable list is likely mostly filled with town players.
Hunger is V-LA how is he on a list of lynchables already? I'm at a loss to how you can have Jobie in this list.
Also Blos has provided less IMO then the people who haven't posted as at least those folks aren't flaming.
imabusinessman has been suspended for a week. I will not be seeking a replacement for him. However, it seems Hardwood_Paneling has no intention of returning, so I will be seeking one for him.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I really hope Seppel, GJ and IABM are town...otherwise I don't have high hopes for us.
Well GJ claimed neutral lover.
And that makes my think that GJ should claim who his lover is because the town wants them alive because they'll scumhunt, and the scum want them alive to improve their numbers.
So at this point, neither of us want to see them accidentally dead, so the other lover should just come out now so you're not accidentally killed.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Hello SilverCrys3467, I apologize in advance if you got a mafia role I'm this game.
Ha ha. Well, I could say I'm not Mafia. But would you believe me if I did? Hardwood doesn't seem to have left a very good impression on you guys (not that I blame you, he seemed sort of smug to me).
I was going to do some wagon analysis but the most recent vote count is from two days ago.
@Iso could we get that vote count now? Pretty please?
I thought I was on Hunger... Oh well ghosting is V/LA... In America! TS is town, Hunt is getting run up unexplainably in his usual Hunty way. I can't find the questions directed at me but they exist. Proph's friendly neibourhood announcement that he his definitely is annoying me because it's probably true. GJ hates us all. I'm not liking the direction IABM or Bloscovi are going, I mean sexual tension is hard to portray in a game of mafia but they're going for it. NAB or Hardwood need to change their picture because at a glance I can't keep track of their previous interactions. Also in big games it'll take me a year to work out what the hell is going on under the surface so don't expect anything groundbreaking for a while.
Hey TS I found a scum.
Unvote,vote matowar
Could you talk about it a bit? I'd like to see your idea here.
Especially since Matowar is being town-read by Proph and TappingStones. Your other vote on Mindreaver didn't sit well with me either.
I'm also left wondering why TappingStones didn't push for an answer, but it was a while ago so I'm not sure what to make of that.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Bloscovi and @Proph, why are you guys speculating about vig targets? Specifically, what you'd do if you had those abilities? I noticed that in the last few pages you've both mentioned them.
I often say that X person needs to be vigged because they are either not contributing to the game or lurking - basically, people who need to die in order for us to solve the game but don't provide enough information for a Day 1 lynch.
imabusinessman fits that profile. I can see how it be speculating about vig targets, but it's something that I do every game.
Hey guys, just posting quickly from Panera, wifi is down and have someone coming out to fix it tomorrow. I'll be making sure to keep up, I'm really sorry for the v/la so early on.
I am piggybacking on the townreads on Brinatoo and Seppel. I can sort of see why Seppel is town when he said "Hey I found a scum" which reads as somewhat mild conviction. Brinatoo... still haven't looked at his posts, and I should, but I trust Bloscovi to give me a good answer and not a gimmick's own read on Brinatoo.
How can you trust Bloscovi's opinions if you don't have a strong town read on him?
@GJ: You are inclined to believe your partner has no alignment, why? From your post #129 about being nervous about early town/scum reads, I believe you care one way or another about an alignment. Or is it that you are playing assuming they are of an alignment just in case?
How can you trust Bloscovi's opinions if you don't have a strong town read on him?
This has to do with how much respect I have for Bloscovi for a player rather than something alignment indicative.
Quote from Sliver »
Could you help me with your read on Ghosting? Is it just the "crafted" posts from early in the day or is there more to your scum-read there?
The townread on GJ felt too forced and overexplanatory for my tastes. Plus, this is something that struck me as off, but every time I read his second post (the one where he suspects GJ) I always expect there to be a vote there and there isn't. The tone of that post also bothers me as well - it feels like Ghosting is trying to trap GJ.
I really hope Seppel, GJ and IABM are town...otherwise I don't have high hopes for us.
Well GJ claimed neutral lover.
And that makes my think that GJ should claim who his lover is because the town wants them alive because they'll scumhunt, and the scum want them alive to improve their numbers.
So at this point, neither of us want to see them accidentally dead, so the other lover should just come out now so you're not accidentally killed.
I'm also very wary of anyone who is claiming a scumread on Ghosting right now. This game is mirrioring the other games I've played with him in and they were town games. The things people are saying are scummy like "overexplaining" (WTF?) are his normal posting methods.
I think it's more likely that at least one scum player thinks he could get Ghosting run up since it has recently gone down that way. But Seppel, GJ, Hunt and I are all in this game and we just played with town!Ghosting doing the same thing.
I want to know what other think about Proph. I think he seems like a good first lynch option for us!
Hello SilverCrys3467, I apologize in advance if you got a mafia role I'm this game.
Ha ha. Well, I could say I'm not Mafia. But would you believe me if I did? Hardwood doesn't seem to have left a very good impression on you guys (not that I blame you, he seemed sort of smug to me).
I was going to do some wagon analysis but the most recent vote count is from two days ago.
@Iso could we get that vote count now? Pretty please?
I love how you didn't say you were town. Delicious scum post. ♥
I don't know where my vote is, so unvote,vote huntzilla
After Huntzilla made one post after not posting for three days.
1) Could you explain why you thought Matowar was scum and didn't push for a wagon on him?
2) Do you tend to vote without explaining much?
3) Why did you change votes from Matowar to Huntzilla?
Unvote
Vote: Seppel until this gets cleared up.
Oh look it asked questions. And the vote on me is "until this gets cleared up" which suggests that he knows there's rational answers to everything. Especially #3. Let's do this.
1) Matowar is being too playful, which is a dramatic change from his play in Ace Attorney where he got into people's faces. Notice how he's talking about people instead if to them.
2) Almost never.
3) You literally quoted my reason for voting Hunt. Like for real.
@Bloscovi and @Proph, why are you guys speculating about vig targets? Specifically, what you'd do if you had those abilities? I noticed that in the last few pages you've both mentioned them.
/barn this
Also if you notice Blos was only interacting with Proph early on.
Oh look it asked questions. And the vote on me is "until this gets cleared up" which suggests that he knows there's rational answers to everything. Especially #3. Let's do this.
Well, everyone else is town-reading you so I figured there must be.
1) Matowar is being too playful, which is a dramatic change from his play in Ace Attorney where he got into people's faces. Notice how he's talking about people instead if to them.
That's fair, but why didn't you push for a wagon on him?
3) You literally quoted my reason for voting Hunt. Like for real.
He posted #177, #192, and #200 basically back-to-back then didn't post again until #307 a few days later. You waited until #313 to vote him for posting a lot, which doesn't make a lot of sense but it doesn't have a scum motive either except trying to start a wagon.
I don't have a good read on you and I still don't. I voted you because you ignored TappingStones when he asked what you were thinking, and hiding your reasoning doesn't help town.
unvote
@TappingStones: I don't know about Proph. I'm leaning town on him right now because he's pushing people to form wagons to get information but that would be a safe scum play at the moment too. Do you have a case on him? What information would we get from a Proph flip?
@TappingStones: I don't know about Proph. I'm leaning town on him right now because he's pushing people to form wagons to get information but that would be a safe scum play at the moment too. Do you have a case on him? What information would we get from a Proph flip?
I'll try to get a T/S list out this evening.
You say that Proph is pushing people to form wagons. First of all if that were true, would it even be towny. As town I could care less if people were pushing others to form wagons. I want people to make cases against, and then vote for the people they think are scum. So I don't know that's he's actually doing what you say he's doing and if he was doing that it's not clear that it would in any way be towny. I would think scum can hide behind wagons and if there are many wagons they could make more use of where to hide their votes. At the end of the sentence you seem to realize that yeah, scum could use that to their advantage pretty easily.
Read what I wrote about him. Ask him some questions. You feel a little shaky out of the gate.
I mean, he was literally egging you on to vote him and push a wagon in #103. Then he doubled down in #379. I'm not sure scum does that unless he's sure he won't get run up.
I agree pushing others to form wagons isn't a scum- or town- tell necessarily but what makes you think he's scum?
I would like a little more than "he misrepresented me four pages ago and I disagree with his T/S reads," which seems to be what your case boils down to.
1. Seppel - Town. I'm invincible!
2. Matowar77 - Scum. Is talking about people instead of at people.
3. Gentleman Johnny - Neutral but really needs to claim his partner in his next post. Or his partner can claim. Otherwise I'm not buying the claim.
4. TappingStones - Unsure. Needs more action.
5. imabusinessman - Lean scum. He hasn't tried to ruin the game yet.
6. Jobie - Unsure. He's in the game?
7. Brinatoo - Unsure. I don't remember anything he's said.
8. Mindreaver - Unsure. I didn't actually read him closely. I just liked GJ's reason for voting him.
9. Dragon_Reign Huntzilla - Scum. I'd love to get some stats on how often D_R replaces out 's alignment, since he's a chronic replacer-outer.
10. Hunger - V/LA. Working together to solve Hunger.
11. Prophylaxis - Strong townread. Either that or he's jumped up his scumgame massively. Time will tell, baby.
12. not_a_gimmick - Unsure. I've seen his name thrown around and I just really haven't cared enough to read him.
13. Hardwood_Paneling SilverCrys3467 - Scum. See above.
14. Kraj - Unsure. Haven't paid attention to him, but I have heard people vouching strongly for him.
15. Ghosting - Unsure. Overexplains everything, not a scumtell.
16. Bloscovi - Unsure. Again, another guy I haven't seen nor heard much of interest from.
I agree pushing others to form wagons isn't a scum- or town- tell necessarily but what makes you think he's scum?
I would like a little more than "he misrepresented me four pages ago and I disagree with his T/S reads," which seems to be what your case boils down to.
I didn't like his early interactions with Ghosting. Reminds me of how scum tried to run up Ghosting in AA. Scum!Meggido made some very weak attacks on Ghosting which I voted him and tried to get him lynched (but alas too many people were town-reading him). Proph says this:
I agree with you on this, but here were my cardinal concerns when reading your posts:
1. Your #34 on Gentleman Johnny felt pretty accusatory, and the post felt like it should have had a vote tacked onto it at the end, but didn't. It felt to me as though you were afraid to commit your vote to someone.
2. Your explanation of why Gentleman Johnny was town was fine, but it felt needlessly over-explanatory, especially for something early in the game.
Okay considering Proph just modded a game where Ghosting showed how absolutely over-explanatory he could be as town in the silly back and forths with Tomsloger and Meggido I can't really be lead to believe that Proph could be thinking this. Considering this was basically the only case he wanted to make against Ghosting and he let ME off the hook when I told him why I didn't attach votes to my semi-scummy read we can see that Proph is not really behind the motivations that he says are leading to his reads.
Later on he asks Matowar about the votes on Ghosting. This almost felt like coaching because Mato is so new and if they were teammates I think a veteran player would look for spots where he could lead his partner.
In response Mato says "...I think I'll wait till a bit later on before I consider him for the Possibly Scum category, he's acted like this before."
and then Proph says "Why do you think Ghosting could be Possibly Scum, as opposed to Possibly Town?"
For one Mato said he is holding off on putting Ghosting in to the possible scum category. Proph is reading into this what he wants to hear even though it isn't at all what Mato said.
Then he bizarrely said that I was "You're reading Kraj's play and vote on you and asking yourself, "How is Kraj's play here scummy?" I actually did nothing of the sort and didn't vote Kraj because I didn't feel a confidence in a scum read. Absolutely zero relation to the picture Proph tried to paint of me.
Also a lot of posts that go like "I don't understand the x wagon". "I don't understand...." I don't really see him pushing many reads at all or scum hunting. Just making posts like "Ghosting can you ask someone a question?" I'd like Proph to start scum hunting more if he is actually town and stop being so buddy buddy with Blos. That's fine that you guys are friends outside the game but you've literally been buddying up to each other since the game began. Shouldn't you guys be playing with a bit of paranoia toward each other?
Refuses to really dig into scum reads "At this moment I have a fair number of townreads, but no one has done anything egregiously scummy at the moment, other than Ghosting who I'm still evaluating. Everyone else is just... Not Town." Playing it safe.
Then we have this," what do you think of Ghosting's question time post in #144? I was considering unvoting Ghosting for that since the questions were decently strong, but I still want to keep it on there for [reasons]." This suggests the Ghosting read, which is his only scum read, isn't actually a scum read.
And this is a big red flag,"I am piggybacking on the townreads on Brinatoo and Seppel. I can sort of see why Seppel is town when he said "Hey I found a scum" which reads as somewhat mild conviction. Brinatoo... still haven't looked at his posts, and I should, but I trust Bloscovi to give me a good answer and not a gimmick's own read on Brinatoo." How can you be town-reading people that you admit you haven't even read yet? That makes no sense in any universe. And you credit it to your buddy who on day one you should not have such a trusting relationship with.
I hope that's enough to let you see where I'm coming from at the moment Crystal. I also hope others can start fleshing out their scum reads a bit as it's a little lame seeing people just sheeping each others votes and reads.
Yeah, that'll happen when I lose a post. Just mispoke is all. "Vote" should be "scumread".
Nope. Not playing any other games at all.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
I do agree with bloscovi that his list looks a little strange. But the way he just threw that list out there and challenged us to discuss it is townie in its own right.
@tapping
I'm also happy with those answers.
Well, happy isn't the right word. But they are townie answers.
Carry on.
As for your return questions, you've mentioned huntzilla (before he entered), bur, hans, rhand, oceanblack, sir chris, and tomsloger. That seems like a lot to me. (You've also talked about businessman alot, who has contributed less to this game than most of those players.)
When you add that to all the meta talk and diatribes about bad players, I was starting to think you didn't want to talk about this game.
But I'm over it.
I'm not going to respond to your return condescension, but I did enjoy the irony. Hope it was intentional.
businessman asking stupid, spammy questions about dinner and sonic is just a continuation of his persona apparently. I guess I can accept that this is how he is and he's less a mafia player than an obstacle that's sometimes in mafia games. Read is back to null. Sigh.
If we're going to do a policy lynch like the one he's currently advocating on hardwood, he seems like a better choice for the health of this game. Even has a chance to be scum. But we can probably do better than a policy lynch.
unvote
policy FOS: businessman
TCM is probably telling the truth, or at least part of the truth. Weird time to falseclaim. That seems consistent with a new player who has been mislynched and hated it.
Which is, in turn, consistent with his play this game.
So.
Matowar is town for reasons I've stated.
Prophylaxis is town for reasons I haven't.
Huntzilla is town for trying his damndest to figure things out.
Brinatoo and kraj are town for standing their ground (credit: seppel) and trying to see eye to eye with tapping.
See above for why tapping is town.
bloscovi, seppel, and jobie are all mild townleans for good thinking.
TCM is neutral.
I still have no particularly strong scumreads, but if there are multiple scum within [businessman, ghosting, mindreaver, hardwood, hunger] I feel quite happy with where I am at right now. If anyone has a townread on any of those, please share.
My next chunk of time will be spent figuring them out. Mild leans too if I have time.
This actually helps my peace of mind a lot.
I've been trying to reconcile the way Ghosting town read you (I think he's very likely to be scum for it, but is never scum WITH you), with the fact that I haven't been getting town feelings from your posts in a vaccuum.
---
I believe the claim, and do not want him lynched or vigged unless numbers end up dictating it down the road. Scum in his position (generally town read, or at least under no real pressure) does not claim survivor in the way he did here.
Reasoning: I have a ton of light town reads, and simply by virtue of comparison (he's true null) he looks pretty bad.
---
IMAB is obviously anti-town in behavior, and it's frustrating, but I don't want to lynch him. If I had a dayvig, he'd already be dead, mind you.
(Unless I caved in to the desire to kill Tapping for reasons not remotely related to my thoughts on his alignment)
My problem with IMAB is the warring WiFOM thought process behind his behavior.
1. Scum wouldn't be so brazen.
2. Yeah, but he knows scum usually wouldn't act this way, so it's an easy way to play it.
He strikes me as the type of player who is generally pretty anti-town as town, but also strikes me as the type of player who absolutely would straight up claim that they'll be lurking and take conversation off on unrelated tangents as scum, to cheekily rub their alignment in the threads' face.
I don't really know how to reconcile that, because I learn nothing from interacting with him (or even watching others futilely try to interact with him). I just want him dead, eventually, no matter what.
You looked at that early interaction between Myself, Proph, Ghosting, and TCM.
Take a closer look at it.
I did not have a strong town read on TCM - it's nothing I could articulate, just a vague 'I don't really think he does this as scum', but I threw it out there to generate reactions.
I acknowledge I might be falling into confirmation bias, though, where Ghosting gave me exactly the kind of reaction I'd expect scum to give me. Well, one of the two reactions.
I was looking for someone that either:
1. Fought with the town read out of principle, rather than seeking understanding.
or
2. Someone that agreed with the town read in a manner that showed they knew that he was town.
Ghosting over-explained the town read in a way that feels like he just made things up to justify the town read. It's too many words - too much justification, for what little TCM had said to that point. I don't think it's possible for a town member to have that kind of depth in a read based on the content TCM had.
So it was a case of Ghosting seeing me calling TCM probably town, and jumping in to go 'Why yes, fellow town member, congratulations on identifying another town! Hah hah.'
Maybe not quite that awkward. But close.
He addressed me like he knew I was town, who had a town read on someone that he knew was town.
I want him dead for it.
Just taking advantage of being awake (if pretty hung over) at 5 am to post a little bit.
If people would re-state any questions that'd be radical, though.
I don't really want to have to carefully re-read to find them.
The entire reason I'm playing in this game is because it needed one more slot to fill, so I'd be relatively low effort to make the game happen.
(I say relatively low effort, because my definition of low effort and IMAB's definition of low effort are apparently pretty different)
Dammit Sepple.
(I'll probably take a look at it in next day or two, but I stand by the fact that I don't think town has that much to say about TCM being town based on the amount of content he'd generated to that point)
(Also, Seppel is very probably town for 352. I don't he posts that so blase-ly if he's scum with Ghosting, or without)
Interesting...I would still say he's added as much useful analysis to the game as you have.
Hope you improve as the game goes on Blos!
Are you able to walk me through your reasoning as to why Brinatoo is a decently strong town read? I haven't been able to get to his posts yet, but his posts so far aren't moving me one way or another.
Plus, what do you think of Ghosting's question time post in #144? I was considering unvoting Ghosting for that since the questions were decently strong, but I still want to keep it on there for [reasons].
I believe this claim pretty strongly - there is absolutely no way GJ posts this as scum, since he already has a lot of people townreading him already.
I agree with this as well. There will probably come a time where TappingStones rolls scum and fools us all.. but then we can just do interaction analysis like we did in Star Wars and kind of rout the scumteam, so.
not a gimmick's most recent post is basically where I am, actually. I don't have a lot of strong scumreads (there's Ghosting but he hasn't posted in a while) but I do have a lot of townreads of varying strengths. I'll help not a gimmick assemble a stronger box than the one he already has.
I'm town.
Matowar is town for lack of guile in his posts.
GJ is at the very least not-mafia for the way he claimed. Don't feel like putting him in the neutral pile so he's still in the townbloc, despite not being town.
Kraj has displayed critical thinking and incredulity, even if he's pushing on people who I think are town.
TappingStones is here for the way he reacted to pressure. I also agree with not a gimmick about TS's way of presenting his reads feels town, even if they stand in direct opposition to our own.
Huntzilla is town for how thoughtful his posts are. They're a remarkable change from past games, but reading them in a vacuum it feels townie.
Bloscovi is here because Ghosting and [reasons].
Mindreaver is town because of the "Sheeple" thing which makes him slightly more town than not, and "I am town this game, you can take that to the bank". Ignoring posts like these almost cost me another game so I'm determined not to, at this rate. I have some slight reservations on this read since not a gimmick's "caught for the wrong reasons" can sort of apply, but that's a drop in the bucket compared to the townie things Mindreaver has done.
I am piggybacking on the townreads on Brinatoo and Seppel. I can sort of see why Seppel is town when he said "Hey I found a scum" which reads as somewhat mild conviction. Brinatoo... still haven't looked at his posts, and I should, but I trust Bloscovi to give me a good answer and not a gimmick's own read on Brinatoo.
So. Lynch/vig through this pile, profit? I'm pretty sure there's scum hiding in my townreads, but we can examine that later I guess.
imabusinessman
Jobie
Hunger
Hardwood
Ghosting
If you are pretty sure that scum is hiding in your town reads then why are they your town reads? I mean I'm all for paranoia and being careful but your lynchable list is likely mostly filled with town players.
Hunger is V-LA how is he on a list of lynchables already? I'm at a loss to how you can have Jobie in this list.
Also Blos has provided less IMO then the people who haven't posted as at least those folks aren't flaming.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
And that makes my think that GJ should claim who his lover is because the town wants them alive because they'll scumhunt, and the scum want them alive to improve their numbers.
So at this point, neither of us want to see them accidentally dead, so the other lover should just come out now so you're not accidentally killed.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I've been skimming along, but I'm doing a full reread since I replaced in. I'll be back when I'm done.
Ha ha. Well, I could say I'm not Mafia. But would you believe me if I did? Hardwood doesn't seem to have left a very good impression on you guys (not that I blame you, he seemed sort of smug to me).
I was going to do some wagon analysis but the most recent vote count is from two days ago.
@Iso could we get that vote count now? Pretty please?
I'm also left wondering why TappingStones didn't push for an answer, but it was a while ago so I'm not sure what to make of that.
Hardwood_Paneling (1): imabusinessman
Ghosting (2): Prophylaxis, Bloscovi
TappingStones (1): Brinatoo
imabusinessman (2): Mindreaver, Matowar77
Huntzilla (2): Hardwood_Paneling, Seppel
Mindreaver (1): Kraj
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
..as well as a host of other errors, heh.
I guess I'm the fool now.
@Bloscovi and @Proph, why are you guys speculating about vig targets? Specifically, what you'd do if you had those abilities? I noticed that in the last few pages you've both mentioned them.
imabusinessman fits that profile. I can see how it be speculating about vig targets, but it's something that I do every game.
I see you forgot you caught "scum!Matowar" and moved your vote to Huntzilla, so I'll rephrase my post.
You said: After Huntzilla made one post after not posting for three days.
1) Could you explain why you thought Matowar was scum and didn't push for a wagon on him?
2) Do you tend to vote without explaining much?
3) Why did you change votes from Matowar to Huntzilla?
Unvote
Vote: Seppel until this gets cleared up.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
@GJ: You are inclined to believe your partner has no alignment, why? From your post #129 about being nervous about early town/scum reads, I believe you care one way or another about an alignment. Or is it that you are playing assuming they are of an alignment just in case?
I was hoping they were a bit longer, hadn't quite finished my reread. Looks like darts on a dartboard right now, so not much to analyze.
Could you help me with your read on Ghosting? Is it just the "crafted" posts from early in the day or is there more to your scum-read there?
The townread on GJ felt too forced and overexplanatory for my tastes. Plus, this is something that struck me as off, but every time I read his second post (the one where he suspects GJ) I always expect there to be a vote there and there isn't. The tone of that post also bothers me as well - it feels like Ghosting is trying to trap GJ.
Bloscovi had a good case on Ghosting here: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/700341-goldeneye-mafia-day-1-frigate?comment=350
I agree with Seppel here.
I think it's more likely that at least one scum player thinks he could get Ghosting run up since it has recently gone down that way. But Seppel, GJ, Hunt and I are all in this game and we just played with town!Ghosting doing the same thing.
I want to know what other think about Proph. I think he seems like a good first lynch option for us!
I'm already voting you = )
unvote, vote silver
Oh look it asked questions. And the vote on me is "until this gets cleared up" which suggests that he knows there's rational answers to everything. Especially #3. Let's do this.
1) Matowar is being too playful, which is a dramatic change from his play in Ace Attorney where he got into people's faces. Notice how he's talking about people instead if to them.
2) Almost never.
3) You literally quoted my reason for voting Hunt. Like for real.
https://youtu.be/TNwxv6TgsuU
/barn this
Also if you notice Blos was only interacting with Proph early on.
Well, everyone else is town-reading you so I figured there must be.
That's fair, but why didn't you push for a wagon on him?
Ok.
He posted #177, #192, and #200 basically back-to-back then didn't post again until #307 a few days later. You waited until #313 to vote him for posting a lot, which doesn't make a lot of sense but it doesn't have a scum motive either except trying to start a wagon.
I don't have a good read on you and I still don't. I voted you because you ignored TappingStones when he asked what you were thinking, and hiding your reasoning doesn't help town.
unvote
@TappingStones: I don't know about Proph. I'm leaning town on him right now because he's pushing people to form wagons to get information but that would be a safe scum play at the moment too. Do you have a case on him? What information would we get from a Proph flip?
I'll try to get a T/S list out this evening.
You say that Proph is pushing people to form wagons. First of all if that were true, would it even be towny. As town I could care less if people were pushing others to form wagons. I want people to make cases against, and then vote for the people they think are scum. So I don't know that's he's actually doing what you say he's doing and if he was doing that it's not clear that it would in any way be towny. I would think scum can hide behind wagons and if there are many wagons they could make more use of where to hide their votes. At the end of the sentence you seem to realize that yeah, scum could use that to their advantage pretty easily.
Read what I wrote about him. Ask him some questions. You feel a little shaky out of the gate.
I agree pushing others to form wagons isn't a scum- or town- tell necessarily but what makes you think he's scum?
I would like a little more than "he misrepresented me four pages ago and I disagree with his T/S reads," which seems to be what your case boils down to.
And I don't push wagons until I'm ready to end the day. And I probably wouldn't have responded.
And you're still here? Yet you couldn't be bothered to do a T/S list, lamenting how you have to do it. It's not hard if you're town.
Watch.
2. Matowar77 - Scum. Is talking about people instead of at people.
3. Gentleman Johnny - Neutral but really needs to claim his partner in his next post. Or his partner can claim. Otherwise I'm not buying the claim.
4. TappingStones - Unsure. Needs more action.
5. imabusinessman - Lean scum. He hasn't tried to ruin the game yet.
6. Jobie - Unsure. He's in the game?
7. Brinatoo - Unsure. I don't remember anything he's said.
8. Mindreaver - Unsure. I didn't actually read him closely. I just liked GJ's reason for voting him.
9. Dragon_Reign Huntzilla - Scum. I'd love to get some stats on how often D_R replaces out 's alignment, since he's a chronic replacer-outer.
10. Hunger - V/LA. Working together to solve Hunger.
11. Prophylaxis - Strong townread. Either that or he's jumped up his scumgame massively. Time will tell, baby.
12. not_a_gimmick - Unsure. I've seen his name thrown around and I just really haven't cared enough to read him.
13. Hardwood_Paneling SilverCrys3467 - Scum. See above.
14. Kraj - Unsure. Haven't paid attention to him, but I have heard people vouching strongly for him.
15. Ghosting - Unsure. Overexplains everything, not a scumtell.
16. Bloscovi - Unsure. Again, another guy I haven't seen nor heard much of interest from.
See how easy that was?
I didn't like his early interactions with Ghosting. Reminds me of how scum tried to run up Ghosting in AA. Scum!Meggido made some very weak attacks on Ghosting which I voted him and tried to get him lynched (but alas too many people were town-reading him). Proph says this:
I agree with you on this, but here were my cardinal concerns when reading your posts:
1. Your #34 on Gentleman Johnny felt pretty accusatory, and the post felt like it should have had a vote tacked onto it at the end, but didn't. It felt to me as though you were afraid to commit your vote to someone.
2. Your explanation of why Gentleman Johnny was town was fine, but it felt needlessly over-explanatory, especially for something early in the game.
Okay considering Proph just modded a game where Ghosting showed how absolutely over-explanatory he could be as town in the silly back and forths with Tomsloger and Meggido I can't really be lead to believe that Proph could be thinking this. Considering this was basically the only case he wanted to make against Ghosting and he let ME off the hook when I told him why I didn't attach votes to my semi-scummy read we can see that Proph is not really behind the motivations that he says are leading to his reads.
Later on he asks Matowar about the votes on Ghosting. This almost felt like coaching because Mato is so new and if they were teammates I think a veteran player would look for spots where he could lead his partner.
In response Mato says "...I think I'll wait till a bit later on before I consider him for the Possibly Scum category, he's acted like this before."
and then Proph says "Why do you think Ghosting could be Possibly Scum, as opposed to Possibly Town?"
For one Mato said he is holding off on putting Ghosting in to the possible scum category. Proph is reading into this what he wants to hear even though it isn't at all what Mato said.
Then he bizarrely said that I was "You're reading Kraj's play and vote on you and asking yourself, "How is Kraj's play here scummy?" I actually did nothing of the sort and didn't vote Kraj because I didn't feel a confidence in a scum read. Absolutely zero relation to the picture Proph tried to paint of me.
Also a lot of posts that go like "I don't understand the x wagon". "I don't understand...." I don't really see him pushing many reads at all or scum hunting. Just making posts like "Ghosting can you ask someone a question?" I'd like Proph to start scum hunting more if he is actually town and stop being so buddy buddy with Blos. That's fine that you guys are friends outside the game but you've literally been buddying up to each other since the game began. Shouldn't you guys be playing with a bit of paranoia toward each other?
Refuses to really dig into scum reads "At this moment I have a fair number of townreads, but no one has done anything egregiously scummy at the moment, other than Ghosting who I'm still evaluating. Everyone else is just... Not Town." Playing it safe.
Then we have this," what do you think of Ghosting's question time post in #144? I was considering unvoting Ghosting for that since the questions were decently strong, but I still want to keep it on there for [reasons]." This suggests the Ghosting read, which is his only scum read, isn't actually a scum read.
And this is a big red flag,"I am piggybacking on the townreads on Brinatoo and Seppel. I can sort of see why Seppel is town when he said "Hey I found a scum" which reads as somewhat mild conviction. Brinatoo... still haven't looked at his posts, and I should, but I trust Bloscovi to give me a good answer and not a gimmick's own read on Brinatoo." How can you be town-reading people that you admit you haven't even read yet? That makes no sense in any universe. And you credit it to your buddy who on day one you should not have such a trusting relationship with.
I hope that's enough to let you see where I'm coming from at the moment Crystal. I also hope others can start fleshing out their scum reads a bit as it's a little lame seeing people just sheeping each others votes and reads.
Seppel: Am I literally your only townread?
Proph has you in green (which I assume is lean town). Tapping has you lean town. No one has a negative interaction with you (except me).
I'm townreading you, Proph, and Tapping. I suspect scum is hiding in the lurkers.
I'll be back this evening with a full list.