@GJ - No, I straightened that Jobie thing out with his last response. I understand why my vote, in his eyes, was more significant than I thought it was. I made a silly vote, he saw a a 4th vote on a wagon. I can appreciate that, and I didn't give it any consideration at the time.
As far as:
You come off way too uncaring. "This is dangerously close to a misrep" implies that you are trying to scare him, without actually engaging. Misrep is intended to be something intentionally done by scum, to flip the words town said. Either you think Hunt misreped you, or you have an alternative explaination to your voting style, or you were unclear. There is no middle ground like that quote tends to imply.
By dangerously close to a misrep, I meant that technically I voted for HP. The misrep is in the nuanced "he casually moved his vote from wagon to wagon". Because in my head, I hadn't. I had RVS, a silly vote about nothing substantial, then a legit vote on TS. It's misrepping my motives to say "I'm just voting wagons whichever way the wind blows". But I DID vote that way, so it's not as if it's a complete misrep. I'm not sure i'm explaining that well.
In short, I hadn't considered Jobie's perspective, that the 4th vote on HPs wagon would have weight regardless of the reason for that vote. I felt he was painting me as scum, who didn't care who got lynched, or for what reason. That was why I had a problem, and why I've backed away.
On a separate note, my voting frequency will be less over this weekend. I'm not gone per se, I'll just be enjoying a deserved weekend off with family, and probably will only check on this in the late evening, hopefully buzzing nicely
not a gimmick - What's your reasoning for having businessman as your primary scum read? I would be happy to vote for him since he's not contributing anything useful, but want to see what you'd get out of a businessman lynch.
This was already talked about some since my last post but I still want to answer it.
Businessman was at the bottom of my list, but still orange. I have no one red ATM.
So I don't think I am worth sheeping here.
As has been said, there is a handful of players making this thread more hospitable for scum. Among them, businessman has also done stone nothing.
So until I have an actual red read, I'm just going to park my vote on the person helping the town least. And that is businessman by a fairly wide margin.
He does not seem to respond to pressure in any way, which is what I would expect from scum that has decided to just embrace his internal scumminess for the lulz/wifom. But that doesn't mean very much.
Is there any particular reason I am absent from this list?
Is there any particular reason you feel you deserve to be on it? click here after reading this response
Seriously though, I was just making a list and you didn't come to mind. But consider yourself promoted to an extremely light town read for your thoughts on businessman, as they seem to mirror my own (albeit with different conclusions)
In AA I got picked apart in seconds when I hit Ghosting and TS's scumdar, and completely fell flat trying to defend myself. Hence I'm pretty worried about appearing scummy, which will probably get me killed. I'll try to relax a bit more and focus on getting something solid so I can participate in a way that doesn't suddenly derail town into all hating me.
Oh cool. My first real townread was 100% correct.
If anyone still thinks matowar might be scum, please show me a world in which someone makes this post in their first scum game.
This is a clear thought process that shows he is trying to improve his game. If he hasn't been scum before, what exactly is he trying to improve upon? He is perhaps overcorrecting for his past town play, but it is NOT scummy.
@matowar I'm sorry you're having so much trouble with the avatars. Perhaps it would help to think of mine as a smiley face instead of a table...
Seriously. His is just wood. Mine is two eyeballs and a smear of blood on a table. How is that more similar than a dozen cartoon characters?
Do you know how many people in this thread alone have said "Oh that's TS being TS", or "That's Huntz being Huntz". Those are the kind of reps I'm talking about. Nobody could come in this thread and say "oh this is mind being mind".
If mindreaver is scum, this may be the first instance of the "caught for the wrong reasons" scumtell that I've personally witnessed.
I'm not saying it is this way, but this could easily be "Dammit why am I being scumread? I'm totally copying my town meta!"
I am going to stop here for right now. I will be back later today to finish responding to things.
I would also like to ask what I have to do to get tappingstones to answer my questions. Perhaps when I get back I will quote them all again.
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Curiosity killed the cat. But for awhile, I was a suspect.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Will you explain this before Day 3? Because I cannot hold my breath that long.
I have brinatoo (and kraj) as lightly town because they seem, at least to me, to be trying to understand why they cannot see eye to eye with tappingstones.
This is almost certainly a fakable interaction, but it is a good sign.
The third sentence contradicts itself with respect to the second, care to explain the sloppiness?
He was actively trying to evolve the game and didn't back off or change his tune when I voted him.
You never voted me though.
@Jobie/IABM/Hunt: Since the three of you joined us a lil late, I'd like your opinions on the Ghosting/HWP wagons? I think the three of you could offer a different perspective since you weren't present during the action.
@Jobie/IABM/Hunt: Since the three of you joined us a lil late, I'd like your opinions on the Ghosting/HWP wagons? I think the three of you could offer a different perspective since you weren't present during the action.
I'm willing to wagon and lynch Hardwood paneling because I hate having to deal with replacements. don't know anything about what Ghosting or HWP wagons look like.
However...
Knowing what I know about NEWBS replacing under pressure I'm going to...
@Jobie/IABM/Hunt: Since the three of you joined us a lil late, I'd like your opinions on the Ghosting/HWP wagons? I think the three of you could offer a different perspective since you weren't present during the action.
I'm willing to wagon and lynch Hardwood paneling because I hate having to deal with replacements. don't know anything about what Ghosting or HWP wagons look like.
However...
Knowing what I know about NEWBS replacing under pressure I'm going to...
I just went back and reread HWP and for the life of me can't figure out the motivation behind his posts. I'd love to know what he's getting at and am interested in him answering the questions that have been laid out for him.
@prophylaxis you've asked me about something like half my reads. Instead of answering, I'm just going to do a reread and then another list with reasoning. Sorry to make you wait.
I think you and I are sympatico though. We might need some sort of mind meld eventually. One of those back and forths that someone will call "scum theater" and then get run up for it because we are both such obvious town by the end.
That person will probably just be paranoid town (likely matowar. just sayin) but I think we'll be able to figure something out.
I personally hate the way he is playing this game, but don't think he would have the balls to pull that off as scum. I feel pretty comfortable town for now.
Apparently he's always like this. So I'm not sure what balls it takes to continue it.
Is that not the point of always acting scummy? So its easier when you do roll scum?
@GJ - No, I straightened that Jobie thing out with his last response. I understand why my vote, in his eyes, was more significant than I thought it was. I made a silly vote, he saw a a 4th vote on a wagon. I can appreciate that, and I didn't give it any consideration at the time.
How aware are you of votecounts?
Do you know who is voting for you without checking?
Will you explain this before Day 3? Because I cannot hold my breath that long.
I have brinatoo (and kraj) as lightly town because they seem, at least to me, to be trying to understand why they cannot see eye to eye with tappingstones.
This is almost certainly a fakable interaction, but it is a good sign.
The third sentence contradicts itself with respect to the second, care to explain the sloppiness?
umm... huh?
My questions to tappingstones:
Tell me what we would learn about the people on Mindreaver's wagon if we had his rolecard?
Why do you consider yourself a wildcard?
How hard are you trying to live up to huntzilla's meta read of you? (this one is probably rhetorical)
If you'd like to see them in context, you'll have to check my extremely lengthy posting history. Its two pages now.
Bonus questions:
Why do you keep referencing people not in the game?
Will you ever learn what a misrep is, or at least how to apply it to mafia?
I also have a question out to businessman. But it would be totally out of character for him to answer it.
So just keep on being scummy I guess.
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Curiosity killed the cat. But for awhile, I was a suspect.
@prophylaxis you've asked me about something like half my reads. Instead of answering, I'm just going to do a reread and then another list with reasoning. Sorry to make you wait.
I think you and I are sympatico though. We might need some sort of mind meld eventually. One of those back and forths that someone will call "scum theater" and then get run up for it because we are both such obvious town by the end.
That person will probably just be paranoid town (likely matowar. just sayin) but I think we'll be able to figure something out.
I personally hate the way he is playing this game, but don't think he would have the balls to pull that off as scum. I feel pretty comfortable town for now.
Apparently he's always like this. So I'm not sure what balls it takes to continue it.
Is that not the point of always acting scummy? So its easier when you do roll scum?
@GJ - No, I straightened that Jobie thing out with his last response. I understand why my vote, in his eyes, was more significant than I thought it was. I made a silly vote, he saw a a 4th vote on a wagon. I can appreciate that, and I didn't give it any consideration at the time.
How aware are you of votecounts?
Do you know who is voting for you without checking?
Will you explain this before Day 3? Because I cannot hold my breath that long.
I have brinatoo (and kraj) as lightly town because they seem, at least to me, to be trying to understand why they cannot see eye to eye with tappingstones.
This is almost certainly a fakable interaction, but it is a good sign.
The third sentence contradicts itself with respect to the second, care to explain the sloppiness?
umm... huh?
My questions to tappingstones:
Tell me what we would learn about the people on Mindreaver's wagon if we had his rolecard?
Why do you consider yourself a wildcard?
How hard are you trying to live up to huntzilla's meta read of you? (this one is probably rhetorical)
If you'd like to see them in context, you'll have to check my extremely lengthy posting history. Its two pages now.
Bonus questions:
Why do you keep referencing people not in the game?
Will you ever learn what a misrep is, or at least how to apply it to mafia?
I also have a question out to businessman. But it would be totally out of character for him to answer it.
So just keep on being scummy I guess.
Why are your questions so condescending?
I'm here to enjoy myself and figure out who the scum is, not constantly deal with a couple bad apples insulting others and being condescending.
And why are you making snotty remarks about businessmen?
These month long deadlines are hard for me to handle. I'm fine with trolling and being in RVS for two more weeks.
Yeah, I'm likely to take some time away until people are back and playing. Right now there are several people just being snotty. And it's making me ask myself why I'm taking time out of a busy weekend to keep up? Look at the things NAG said about you and I right above.
Well you don't have to answer the rhetorical one.
And I guess you can keep using misrep as a meaningless buzzword if thats what you're in to. Just know that you saying you've been misrepped will not elicit any response but an eyeroll. Boy who cried wolf and all.
I'll admit to getting a little frustrated with you not reading my posts or answering my questions and letting it leak into my wording. But those other three questions are not condescending at all, and I wouldn't be asking them if I didn't think the answers would help me figure you out. I would absolutely love to be sure of your alignment so I can use your insights appropriately.
I am being snotty with businessman. But, unlike you, he 100% deserves it. And I think he knows that.
When you act like a petulant child that just learned what wifom is, expect to be treated accordingly.
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Curiosity killed the cat. But for awhile, I was a suspect.
I'm worried you don't know what misrep means. HWP #275 is a textbook misrep. He even put the misrep in quotes to make it look more like it was a quote from me when he in fact chaged words and totally changed the meaning.
That IS a misrep. Like, did you even read that post?
I see your explanation back to Ghosting as over explanatory, what made your questioning slightly different and not the same thing? You site crafted responses as one of your reasons, but your posts always look well put together and "crafted" in a sense... how can I be sure you aren't projecting your own scum fear onto another person?
I don't see how my questioning is over-explanatory? Can you clarify this question?
I also don't really see how my posts are crafted. I literally just play from the hip. Can you point to me to some posts of mine that you've found crafted?
Quote from Huntzilla »
Also, Why can't NaG's "solving the game" be him blending in? What makes it more of a townie lean?
He's genuinely excited to have found his first town read. I adopted a similar tone of excitement in Gatecrash Mafia in my notes QT:
Quote from Prophylaxis »
I have formed my first town read.
Also, Hunt, why in the world are you voting Bloscovi?
So I was merely trying to show you that "crafted" and "over-explainy" can be subjective, and that it really lies in the eye of the beholder. I mean there are times where it is more clear than others, but epecially the "crafted" nature of posts can simply be related to the level of effort someone is putting into the game. For example; New players, try-hards, and sometimes scum yes...
Your point on NaG makes a lot of sense. I hadn't came at it from that PoV.
I was (am at this second) voting Bloscovi for a couple reasons. I didn't like his negativity, and I have found that comes from a scum mindset in the past, or at the very BEST an unhelpful town mindset. I also wanted to sheep Imab and see who hated that and what Imab might say. Plus, I was hoping it might cause Imab to actually put his "reasons" down in writing. Lastly, I was hoping it would cause BLoscovi to feel a little pressure and start talking.
With that said, now that he is on VLA it is not serving any purpose and there has been enough time for people to react, and I didn't get a lot. C'est le vie.
How should my post have ended then, according to you?
You expressed several scumreads that seemed much better thought out than "fearmongering through negativity"
Why is that where you voted?
Are you just sheeping businessman?
It's odd to answer questions meant for other people... It's inserting yourself into a conversation that isn't really meant for you. Especially if you do it before the other person answers. Then it looks like coaching.
And here I thought you would appreciate being notified that the direction you're going is devoid of alignment indicative content because you disliked contentless posting.. My bad. Why is it odd? You publicly post it in the thread for everyone to read, surely you don't think it's correct for everybody to ingore it. Being before the person themselves answered is unfortunately not surprising given activity levels.
Why didn't you answer the question? I care so that I can figure out your mindset. You are an unknown, and I would really like to know what the hell you are thinking and trying to accomplish this game. Right now, it looks like you plan to be snarky and not helpful. That doesn't appear townie to me. Maybe you have something else going on, and getting an answer as to how you would have been thinking in that scenario will help me to determine whether or not you are town. So... again... how should it have ended?
Wait what which question? How your post should have ended? Eh. Even if that was directed towards me and I was thus 'allowed' to answer it by your decree, I would never answer it since it's a terrible question to ask. 'Please tell me how to act so you will like me' is basic red behaviour.
And I personally don't think setting arbitrary rules about who can talk about what is very helpful for the town, so I suppose we can just scumread each other, that'll be fun.
I found it odd that you took to chainsawing through others questions. That usually comes from a place of scum trying to a) shape the conversation and b) protect their buddies. I am fine with people answering questions, but at least give the intended target time to answer.
I think you will quickly find that I don't give a ***** about people liking me one way or the other. One man's trash is another man's treasure. The question allows me to get into the head of the other person, because I can see how they would be thinking about it in the same context. That will allow me to figure out if it's from a "red" mindset or a "green"... However, now that it has been bastardized by the chainsawing, I get nothing out of it. I'm leaning towards you doing that out of a "red" mindset right now.
In every game I've played in there has been well established lines that you shouldn't be answering questions directed at others before that person gives an answer. It's rude for one. For two we don't get to see as natural respense from the intended person because you are already throwing out other ideas. If you are so eager to interact then ask questions and start scum hunting. I see a lot of new faces in this game acting like brand new players. "Yeah, he's scum. He does something I wouldn't do" Makes the rest of us want to shoot ourselves having to read this poop.
I dismissed that interpretation because it regards a topic he is confident in and he feels like he has more insight in. That is not a situation you ask for advice about.
Yeah, I think that is where the disconnect is. It isn't advice. It's eliciting a response to determine contextual thought process...
I thought I was on Hunger... Oh well ghosting is V/LA... In America! TS is town, Hunt is getting run up unexplainably in his usual Hunty way. I can't find the questions directed at me but they exist. Proph's friendly neibourhood announcement that he his definitely is annoying me because it's probably true. GJ hates us all. I'm not liking the direction IABM or Bloscovi are going, I mean sexual tension is hard to portray in a game of mafia but they're going for it. NAB or Hardwood need to change their picture because at a glance I can't keep track of their previous interactions. Also in big games it'll take me a year to work out what the hell is going on under the surface so don't expect anything groundbreaking for a while.
I don't like this for making excuses for lack of content and for the "Hunt being Hunt" which sounds vaguely similar to "Seppel being Seppel" which has traditionally come from a scum perspective.
What's Mindreaver doing wrong then? He doesn't seem to be going down too well with people though not for lack of trying to engage.
It wasn't to me, but what the hell. I am town this game, you can take that to the bank. But I don't have the reps that other players do. Deservedly so, I haven't played as much, most people in this game haven't played with me at all. I suspect in 6 months things might be different and people will be able to tell town!mind from scum!mind with more accuracy.
As promised, I'd rather apply pressure elsewhere:
Unvote, Vote iamabusinessman
I want to see a real post from you.
I hate the need to throw in "I am town guaranteed," That reads scummy as hell to me. Then you have a chance to put a vote on a well-reasoned wagon, but instead you stick it on Imab, who has stated he was going to play this way and isn't really around right now. It looks like a throwaway vote on somewhere safe instead of taking a chance. It looks scummy.
I personally hate the way he is playing this game, but don't think he would have the balls to pull that off as scum. I feel pretty comfortable town for now.
Same, though I'm hesitant to townread players based off of doing flat out Nothing. I wouldn't shed a tear if he was vigged, for instance.
I'll take a page out of Chris's book from a recent game: If he is scum, what he is doing will not end up with his team winning the game.
not a gimmick - What's your reasoning for having businessman as your primary scum read? I would be happy to vote for him since he's not contributing anything useful, but want to see what you'd get out of a businessman lynch.
This was already talked about some since my last post but I still want to answer it.
Businessman was at the bottom of my list, but still orange. I have no one red ATM.
So I don't think I am worth sheeping here.
As has been said, there is a handful of players making this thread more hospitable for scum. Among them, businessman has also done stone nothing.
So until I have an actual red read, I'm just going to park my vote on the person helping the town least. And that is businessman by a fairly wide margin.
He does not seem to respond to pressure in any way, which is what I would expect from scum that has decided to just embrace his internal scumminess for the lulz/wifom. But that doesn't mean very much.
Is there any particular reason I am absent from this list?
Is there any particular reason you feel you deserve to be on it? click here after reading this response
Seriously though, I was just making a list and you didn't come to mind. But consider yourself promoted to an extremely light town read for your thoughts on businessman, as they seem to mirror my own (albeit with different conclusions)
In AA I got picked apart in seconds when I hit Ghosting and TS's scumdar, and completely fell flat trying to defend myself. Hence I'm pretty worried about appearing scummy, which will probably get me killed. I'll try to relax a bit more and focus on getting something solid so I can participate in a way that doesn't suddenly derail town into all hating me.
Oh cool. My first real townread was 100% correct.
If anyone still thinks matowar might be scum, please show me a world in which someone makes this post in their first scum game.
This is a clear thought process that shows he is trying to improve his game. If he hasn't been scum before, what exactly is he trying to improve upon? He is perhaps overcorrecting for his past town play, but it is NOT scummy.
@matowar I'm sorry you're having so much trouble with the avatars. Perhaps it would help to think of mine as a smiley face instead of a table...
Seriously. His is just wood. Mine is two eyeballs and a smear of blood on a table. How is that more similar than a dozen cartoon characters?
Do you know how many people in this thread alone have said "Oh that's TS being TS", or "That's Huntz being Huntz". Those are the kind of reps I'm talking about. Nobody could come in this thread and say "oh this is mind being mind".
If mindreaver is scum, this may be the first instance of the "caught for the wrong reasons" scumtell that I've personally witnessed.
I'm not saying it is this way, but this could easily be "Dammit why am I being scumread? I'm totally copying my town meta!"
I am going to stop here for right now. I will be back later today to finish responding to things.
I would also like to ask what I have to do to get tappingstones to answer my questions. Perhaps when I get back I will quote them all again.
I really like these points. The Mato as newbscum was something I hadn't considered, and I think you are right. It is unlikely he would do something so bold as a newbscum.
I think you could be correct on the CFTWR tell as well. I am not getting townie vibes from Mindreaver, but I am getting the feeling of ... astonishment?... from him.
Will you explain this before Day 3? Because I cannot hold my breath that long.
I have brinatoo (and kraj) as lightly town because they seem, at least to me, to be trying to understand why they cannot see eye to eye with tappingstones.
This is almost certainly a fakable interaction, but it is a good sign.
The third sentence contradicts itself with respect to the second, care to explain the sloppiness?
He was actively trying to evolve the game and didn't back off or change his tune when I voted him.
You never voted me though.
@Jobie/IABM/Hunt: Since the three of you joined us a lil late, I'd like your opinions on the Ghosting/HWP wagons? I think the three of you could offer a different perspective since you weren't present during the action.
I haven't joined the Harp wago yet, but I was about to until he requested replacement. What are you looking for here? Just a general impression on the wagon?
@Huntzilla- On my reread one of the things that stands out to me is the criticism you took.
What are your thoughts on those reactions to you?
Who are your scumreads and why?
What was the criticism? I might not have payed attention to it. I'm attempting to play less emotional so that I can avoid misplays and mislynches at this stage. So I guess the short answer is that I probably wrote the criticisms off as unhelpful to the game and continued trudging along. Could you let me know which posts you were thinking of?
Scumreads right now are Harp because of his strange twisting of my thought processes and tunneling on me. Bad votes are still bad votes, but some come from scum. Mato's "catch up" post reeked of scum, but it very well could be from a newb just being himself. I have him at lean scum right now. I also keep getting scum vibes from Mindreavers posts, but then he presents himself better in the next. I have him at lean scum as well. I have MANY at null right now; Bloscovi, Seppel, Imab (though he is more of a town lean since this seems like normal Imab to me)... and others that I need more time to be able to tell; Proph, and GJ for example (both are in my townie lean pile right now).
Do you know how many people in this thread alone have said "Oh that's TS being TS", or "That's Huntz being Huntz". Those are the kind of reps I'm talking about. Nobody could come in this thread and say "oh this is mind being mind".
If mindreaver is scum, this may be the first instance of the "caught for the wrong reasons" scumtell that I've personally witnessed.
I'm not saying it is this way, but this could easily be "Dammit why am I being scumread? I'm totally copying my town meta!"
This is actually an instance of "selective quoting". The way this came about was:
1) TS to Mindreaver: Why do you think people are scumreading you?
2) Me to TS: Probably because I'm new and don't have a rep, so people are having a tough time reading me.
3) TS to Me: How does a rep come into play? My rep is that I'm a good player, how does that help?
4) ME to TS: Your rep is that your attitude is designed to provoke responses, which people are saying isn't a scum tell because <insert what I said here>.
5) You take only my #4, and say I'm thinking "Dammit why am I being scumread? I'm totally copying my town meta".
I don't think that's a fair representation of the whole conversation. I was asked specifically why I was being read that way, and THAT question provoked my response. Your selective quote makes it seem like I just volunteered that sentence out of nowhere, because I'm paranoid. Do you still think this is a scumtell on my part? How did you miss the whole convo? And why do you think Huntz agreed with you so quickly, since the entire conversation is right there in the thread?
If nothing else, TS's tilting at windmills with Mindreaver has clarified my read of him.
@brinatoo(I think?) I didn't like the HWP wagon because it came and went so quickly.
The Ghosting wagon in my notes (which are not up to date because I've been busy) is two early votes, so I don't think that's what you're referring to. I'll reread at some point to fix that.
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If nothing else, TS's tilting at windmills with Mindreaver has clarified my read of him.
@brinatoo(I think?) I didn't like the HWP wagon because it came and went so quickly.
The Ghosting wagon in my notes (which are not up to date because I've been busy) is two early votes, so I don't think that's what you're referring to. I'll reread at some point to fix that.
Is there any particular reason you feel you deserve to be on it? click here after reading this response
Seriously though, I was just making a list and you didn't come to mind. But consider yourself promoted to an extremely light town read for your thoughts on businessman, as they seem to mirror my own (albeit with different conclusions)
I assume you aren't town reading him, then?
If mindreaver is scum, this may be the first instance of the "caught for the wrong reasons" scumtell that I've personally witnessed.
I'm not saying it is this way, but this could easily be "Dammit why am I being scumread? I'm totally copying my town meta!"
Everything you just said about mato, I would apply to mindreaver right now. His last few responses to me have come off incredibly genuine, and his explaination of his mindset I could follow. Unvote Mindreaver.
Apparently he's always like this. So I'm not sure what balls it takes to continue it.
Is that not the point of always acting scummy? So its easier when you do roll scum?
I don't know, frankly. I do no IMAB will lie as town, but I don't think he ever point blank said he was just going to lurk to a town that is looking to be a bit more hostile to lurkers (:thumbsup:)
Quote from Seppel »
I don't know where my vote is, so unvote,vote huntzilla
He has stated before that he will try to be more active. So, unless there was something you didn't like, I would like a reason.
I'm gonna have to agree with Seppel. Posting more is kind of a waste if you're not posting awesome cat pictures. Like he's trying too hard. But instead of trying to solve this game let's just lynch Hardwood so we don't have to worry about getting a replacement.
Could you all tell me what you had for dinner. Also if anyone wants to discuss which character in Sonic The Hedgehog is the best I'm willing to hijack this thread and discuss that at length.
I'm gonna have to agree with Seppel. Posting more is kind of a waste if you're not posting awesome cat pictures. Like he's trying too hard. But instead of trying to solve this game let's just lynch Hardwood so we don't have to worry about getting a replacement.
Could you all tell me what you had for dinner. Also if anyone wants to discuss which character in Sonic The Hedgehog is the best I'm willing to hijack this thread and discuss that at length.
Nachos and a bunch of chocolate. I'm in the Charlotte airport.
Will you explain this before Day 3? Because I cannot hold my breath that long.
I have brinatoo (and kraj) as lightly town because they seem, at least to me, to be trying to understand why they cannot see eye to eye with tappingstones.
This is almost certainly a fakable interaction, but it is a good sign.
The third sentence contradicts itself with respect to the second, care to explain the sloppiness?
umm... huh?
I read it as "This can almost certainly be a fakable interaction, but it is a good sign" the first time through. But with how it's worded currently, it implies the opposite of thinking both I and Kraj are lightly town. I was gauging if you were subtlely misrepping me or not.
@Jobie/IABM/Hunt: Since the three of you joined us a lil late, I'd like your opinions on the Ghosting/HWP wagons? I think the three of you could offer a different perspective since you weren't present during the action.
I haven't joined the Harp wago yet, but I was about to until he requested replacement. What are you looking for here? Just a general impression on the wagon?
Yes I think you three could have a different impression on the events.
If nothing else, TS's tilting at windmills with Mindreaver has clarified my read of him.
@brinatoo(I think?) I didn't like the HWP wagon because it came and went so quickly.
The Ghosting wagon in my notes (which are not up to date because I've been busy) is two early votes, so I don't think that's what you're referring to. I'll reread at some point to fix that.
Upon rereading, I think Ghosting only defended his opinion and theory about GJ without "trying to solve the game" as Proph would put it until Proph prodded him to do so on #83.
No other insights or reactions? The reason I am suspicious of you is that I don't think you care about catching scum this game. Feels eerily similar to Classic where you made a lot of comments about procedural stuff and didn't push reads very hard. This game is a stark contrast with AA. I challenge anyone who played or read through AA to argue that this is the same GJ (am I wrong?)
No other insights or reactions? The reason I am suspicious of you is that I don't think you care about catching scum this game. Feels eerily similar to Classic where you made a lot of comments about procedural stuff and didn't push reads very hard. This game is a stark contrast with AA. I challenge anyone who played or read through AA to argue that this is the same GJ (am I wrong?)
I thought we talked about meta, TS. I am trying to townhunt more than scum hunt this game. So yes, I expect my play to be different than AA.
No other insights or reactions? The reason I am suspicious of you is that I don't think you care about catching scum this game. Feels eerily similar to Classic where you made a lot of comments about procedural stuff and didn't push reads very hard. This game is a stark contrast with AA. I challenge anyone who played or read through AA to argue that this is the same GJ (am I wrong?)
I thought we talked about meta, TS. I am trying to townhunt more than scum hunt this game. So yes, I expect my play to be different than AA.
No other insights or reactions? The reason I am suspicious of you is that I don't think you care about catching scum this game. Feels eerily similar to Classic where you made a lot of comments about procedural stuff and didn't push reads very hard. This game is a stark contrast with AA. I challenge anyone who played or read through AA to argue that this is the same GJ (am I wrong?)
I thought we talked about meta, TS. I am trying to townhunt more than scum hunt this game. So yes, I expect my play to be different than AA.
"I am changing my playstyle."
I really need to research how much of an actual scumtell this is.
Alright. Let's drop the misrep thing. You are using it properly in a dictionary denotation sense, and I would love for you to use it in the context of finding scum in a mafia game. But it just doesn't matter that much.
So sure. You have been misrepresented.
Can you answer my three simple, non-condescending questions?
If you answer them correctly, I will quite happily not ask you any more in perpetuity. Because frankly, its exhausting.
1. You stated that the mindreaver wagon is the only good one. Why do you say that/what information would we gain from his flip?
2. You said that businessman is a wildcard like you. Why do you consider yourself a wildcard?
3. What is the purpose of constantly referencing players who are not in this game? (I am not confident this is alignment indicative in any way, but please humor me and answer it)
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Curiosity killed the cat. But for awhile, I was a suspect.
Alright. Let's drop the misrep thing. You are using it properly in a dictionary denotation sense, and I would love for you to use it in the context of finding scum in a mafia game. But it just doesn't matter that much.
So sure. You have been misrepresented.
Can you answer my three simple, non-condescending questions?
If you answer them correctly, I will quite happily not ask you any more in perpetuity. Because frankly, its exhausting.
1. You stated that the mindreaver wagon is the only good one. Why do you say that/what information would we gain from his flip?
2. You said that businessman is a wildcard like you. Why do you consider yourself a wildcard?
3. What is the purpose of constantly referencing players who are not in this game? (I am not confident this is alignment indicative in any way, but please humor me and answer it)
1. Ghosting and Mato are clearly town and Hunt is playing well and I haven't picked up anything scummy from him yet. Mindreaver did look like he was trying hard to be on a wagon. And it felt slightly off. Based on his more recent interactions I've cooled off on that read(My T/S list is up for discussion). I'm not sure what information we would get from his flip, at the time I just would have been more interested in seeing him get strung up than guys I felt were town.
2. More that others consider me a wildcard.
3. Not sure which things you are referring to. I also don't know what you consider as "constant" as I can point out other players in this game that have multiple references to outside players. The more interesting question is why you are so curious about me...referencing players?
May I ask why you aren't scum-hunting? I don't know who you are so should I assume that you are another one of these guys that want to "townhunt" today
If you are town I would advise trying to get on board with pressuring the people who aren't giving much content and of course anyone you are unsure of. Discussion would be greatly appreciated. Scum can't hide as easier if they have to constantly interact with people who are trying to catch them.
I have trouble believing that a Town!TS has these reads.
I'm not fully caught up, just skimming through on phone while I prepare for a barbeque this afternoon, but these reads are almost polar opposite to mine.
Proph is very probably town, Brinatoo is a decently strong town read, and I think Ghosting spewed GJ clear as town.
I'll be doing a full re-read to catch up this evening likely, since life has kicked me in the balls the past week, and I don't have my finger on pulse of game, but these reads just stand out to me in terms of sheer contrast to my own.
I guess it'll be my objective to try and figure out which of the three reasons for that it is.
(Namely: 1. Tapping is town and wrong. 2. I am wrong. 3. Tapping is scum. I guess 4. Tapping is scum, and I am wrong, is also possible, but that seems to be the least likely world)
I will go into more detail on my early game thought process and why Ghosting is scum when I can post more in depth, but for now it's time to grill enough meat to clog my arteries properly.
I have trouble believing that a Town!TS has these reads.
I'm not fully caught up, just skimming through on phone while I prepare for a barbeque this afternoon, but these reads are almost polar opposite to mine.
Proph is very probably town, Brinatoo is a decently strong town read, and I think Ghosting spewed GJ clear as town.
I'll be doing a full re-read to catch up this evening likely, since life has kicked me in the balls the past week, and I don't have my finger on pulse of game, but these reads just stand out to me in terms of sheer contrast to my own.
I guess it'll be my objective to try and figure out which of the three reasons for that it is.
(Namely: 1. Tapping is town and wrong. 2. I am wrong. 3. Tapping is scum. I guess 4. Tapping is scum, and I am wrong, is also possible, but that seems to be the least likely world)
I will go into more detail on my early game thought process and why Ghosting is scum when I can post more in depth, but for now it's time to grill enough meat to clog my arteries properly.
Those options you listed don't make sense. What if I am right about some of yours and I am right about some of mine? What if we are both town and the scum resides among the lurkers? You need to think a little more outside the box. It isn't a "you vs. me dichotomy"
Theres actually a pretty interesting interaction on page 1, over the course of 8 posts/2 hours
#40 bloscovi calls TCM town
#43 ghosting barns bloscovi
#45 bloscovi votes ghosting
#46 prophylaxis barns bloscovi
#47 ghosting defends himself to proph (not bloscovi)
Barning a buddy, or barning someone else's townread of a buddy that early, are very weird plays I can't see scum!ghosting making.
I'm calling this ghosting is unaligned with bloscovi and with TCM
It is curious that you would ask him directly now, when while you thought it was myself, you decided to ask the thread at large. What was it that made this difference?
hardwood and tapping are not knowingly aligned unless I am on their team too (I'm not)
Calling out your buddy for treating you differently than another player? Nah.
Given that you 'could say the same' about Kraj, would you mind explaining this townread further? I don't see it.
I liked this post at the time, but hardwood has since stated he does not justify townreads unless they are about to be lynched.
If he doesn't replace, I would like to get to the bottom of this.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I rather like the page 3 interaction between tapping and TCM. They could definitely both be town having a nice, calm chat about how to win.
TCM is forgettable, but vaguely villagery. I am familiar with him, and know that he is capable of fooling people in general and me specifically, but I trust him for now.
Jobie seems ok too.
Brinatoo asks some leading questions. Noting this here so I can revisit it.
Huntzilla eventually explained quite adequately the one thing made me balk about townreading him, so now I am.
Speaking of:
Imab can be pretty derisive, and his style is brash, but he can be effectual when necessary. If he's derping it could be for various reasons, so asking if he's actually doing something is seeing if we need to keep a watchful eye on him right away, or let him do his thing.
How would you describe the state of your eye? Watchful?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I like mindreaver's spunk in #201, but it certainly doesn't clear him.
Calling out sheeple on your wagon would be a pretty inspired move as scum.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I just got to #226 and am out of time. That is where I will start when I get back to the thread.
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Curiosity killed the cat. But for awhile, I was a suspect.
Well, browser just ate my post, so here's the short version.
Mod: I unvoted TappingStones in post 121 and have not voted since. I will also be on vacation a few days this week but will stay as current as I can.
Vote: Mindreaver
Many of his posts I have minor issues with - barning reasons for vote on TS wagon in post 84; ignoring Jobie's valid attack of wagon-hopping in favor of asking GJ for reasons in 201; throwaway vote on IAMB in 267. Post 259 is what does it for me, though:
@Mindreaver: Of the people on your wagon, who is the strongest scum read, and who is the other strongest scum read from people off your wagon?
I'm so paranoid about that right now. I'll explain.
On the wagon, I think it's clear the worst vote is Seppel. Jobbie I've re-evaluated a bit, and his reasoning was fine. As you just explained yours, I'm okay with that too. I still don't know what Seppel's reasoning is beyond "I'll buy that for a buck". If ever there was a casual vote on a wagon, that was it.
Off the wagon, I'm frustrated with IABM. These posts are deliberately unhelpful, and whenever he's directly addressed he does something silly like his last post. I really thought I was going to get a real response when he had trouble quoting me last night, but then nothing happened. If I have to go off of general helpfulness to solving the game, he's near the bottom.
The reason I'm paranoid about those two reads, is that they are based off of lack of posts, and lack of analysis more than anything they've done.
I also didn't like matowars post, it was too self-conscious about his own participation. As if to say "I haven't been around but here is everything I think in one long sentence". I'm not sure whether this was somebody in a rush/busy, or somebody trying to appear engaged while really lurking. Time will tell on that one.
When pressured for scum reads, he comes up with Seppel for being Seppel (while also suspiciously borrowing phrasing from NAG's post 125 regarding Proph coaching Mindreaver; clearly that post caught his attention), IAMB for being "unhelpful" (scum love to get the town to view players as being difficult or not contributing when there's nothing to otherwise justify an attack), and Matowar for better reasons but that ultimately are just a fence sit. Futher, his Matowar vote follows Seppel's (one of his scum reads) vote just 10 posts prior at a time when there is no other wagon to divert attention to (he's already voting TS, which is a dead wagon, and Ghosting's wagon had been stalled out for a while already).
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The Golden Rule of forums: If you're going to be rude, be right. If you might be wrong, be polite.
Well, browser just ate my post, so here's the short version.
Mod: I unvoted TappingStones in post 121 and have not voted since. I will also be on vacation a few days this week but will stay as current as I can.
Vote: Mindreaver
Many of his posts I have minor issues with - barning reasons for vote on TS wagon in post 84; ignoring Jobie's valid attack of wagon-hopping in favor of asking GJ for reasons in 201; throwaway vote on IAMB in 267. Post 259 is what does it for me, though:
@Mindreaver: Of the people on your wagon, who is the strongest scum read, and who is the other strongest scum read from people off your wagon?
I'm so paranoid about that right now. I'll explain.
On the wagon, I think it's clear the worst vote is Seppel. Jobbie I've re-evaluated a bit, and his reasoning was fine. As you just explained yours, I'm okay with that too. I still don't know what Seppel's reasoning is beyond "I'll buy that for a buck". If ever there was a casual vote on a wagon, that was it.
Off the wagon, I'm frustrated with IABM. These posts are deliberately unhelpful, and whenever he's directly addressed he does something silly like his last post. I really thought I was going to get a real response when he had trouble quoting me last night, but then nothing happened. If I have to go off of general helpfulness to solving the game, he's near the bottom.
The reason I'm paranoid about those two reads, is that they are based off of lack of posts, and lack of analysis more than anything they've done.
I also didn't like matowars post, it was too self-conscious about his own participation. As if to say "I haven't been around but here is everything I think in one long sentence". I'm not sure whether this was somebody in a rush/busy, or somebody trying to appear engaged while really lurking. Time will tell on that one.
When pressured for scum reads, he comes up with Seppel for being Seppel (while also suspiciously borrowing phrasing from NAG's post 125 regarding Proph coaching Mindreaver; clearly that post caught his attention), IAMB for being "unhelpful" (scum love to get the town to view players as being difficult or not contributing when there's nothing to otherwise justify an attack), and Matowar for better reasons but that ultimately are just a fence sit. Futher, his Matowar vote follows Seppel's (one of his scum reads) vote just 10 posts prior at a time when there is no other wagon to divert attention to (he's already voting TS, which is a dead wagon, and Ghosting's wagon had been stalled out for a while already).
Are you also in the "Who Usurped Roger Rabbit" game over at Cracked?
Why was Roger Rabbit your other scumread? Or were you reading him as town until he got vigged and flipped useless ****?
Unvote, Vote IABM
This gamestate isn't moving, everyone's on holiday and I'm tired of your RLS. How about some explaining? You've gotta be better than me at it, you've been playing long enough -.-
I wasn't planning on getting too serious before page 12. But if you wanna get serious then we better prepare...
This is a clear thought process that shows he is trying to improve his game. If he hasn't been scum before, what exactly is he trying to improve upon? He is perhaps overcorrecting for his past town play, but it is NOT scummy.
What do you think about the self awareness of him realizing that he needs to not be scummy?
Quote from not a gimmick »
I think you and I are sympatico though. We might need some sort of mind meld eventually. One of those back and forths that someone will call "scum theater" and then get run up for it because we are both such obvious town by the end.
Yeah, once I start building the Box we will definitely have to mind meld this game. I just need a little more time (and scumhunt a bit more).
I'm fine with Huntzilla's explanation, though I'm still a bit paranoid about him just being.. different. There's no denying that his posts are much improved compared to what I'm usually seeing, though.
Huntzilla: You pointed out two things that might be indicative of a scum mindset from Mindreaver. Why aren't you voting him then?
Quote from Seppel »
It's weird not having three votes any more.
That was a pain in the behind to track, heh.
Quote from Bloscovi »
Proph is very probably town, Brinatoo is a decently strong town read, and I think Ghosting spewed GJ clear as town.
Are you able to walk me through your reasoning as to why Brinatoo is a decently strong town read? I haven't been able to get to his posts yet, but his posts so far aren't moving me one way or another.
Plus, what do you think of Ghosting's question time post in #144? I was considering unvoting Ghosting for that since the questions were decently strong, but I still want to keep it on there for [reasons].
Quote from not a gimmick »
Calling out sheeple on your wagon would be a pretty inspired move as scum.
That was one of the primary reasons why I was townreading him. "Sheeple" is more of a term of townie frustration, I think.
Why was Roger Rabbit your other scumread? Or were you reading him as town until he got vigged and flipped useless ****?
Unvote, Vote IABM
This gamestate isn't moving, everyone's on holiday and I'm tired of your RLS. How about some explaining? You've gotta be better than me at it, you've been playing long enough -.-
Oh yeah. When it comes to Sally Acorn she was actually alright. Considering how the comic flubs so many characterizations I'm surprised that that went well for her. But I absolutely hated her character in the Sonic SatAM version. She stole screentime from Rotor Walrus. Plus in the second season she the ABC executives forced her to put some clothes on so that she didn't appear so stripperific. Apparantly one of the executives pre-teen sons was being led down the dark path of furry fandom.
For the comics my favorite character is easily Thrash The Tasmanian Devil. He was allowed to beat up and punk Knuckles when usually the main characters are given plot armor.
For the games it's something of a tie between Fang The Sniper and Vector The Crocodile. Fang weilds a gun which is pretty intense for the kid friendly series and is a bounty hunter. Vector is a really good guy who cares about his teammates in a real way. He also seems to have dimensions to his character even if it's shallow. That's says more than most of the characters in the games and the comics.
Sucks about the lame dinner at the airport. Remember to arrive about 4 hours before your flight takes off due to TSA budget cuts.
Oh yeah. When it comes to Sally Acorn she was actually alright. Considering how the comic flubs so many characterizations I'm surprised that that went well for her. But I absolutely hated her character in the Sonic SatAM version. She stole screentime from Rotor Walrus. Plus in the second season she the ABC executives forced her to put some clothes on so that she didn't appear so stripperific. Apparantly one of the executives pre-teen sons was being led down the dark path of furry fandom.
For the comics my favorite character is easily Thrash The Tasmanian Devil. He was allowed to beat up and punk Knuckles when usually the main characters are given plot armor.
For the games it's something of a tie between Fang The Sniper and Vector The Crocodile. Fang weilds a gun which is pretty intense for the kid friendly series and is a bounty hunter. Vector is a really good guy who cares about his teammates in a real way. He also seems to have dimensions to his character even if it's shallow. That's says more than most of the characters in the games and the comics.
Sucks about the lame dinner at the airport. Remember to arrive about 4 hours before your flight takes off due to TSA budget cuts.
I only read the first comics that came with Sega Visions magazine or something.
Well, browser just ate my post, so here's the short version.
Mod: I unvoted TappingStones in post 121 and have not voted since. I will also be on vacation a few days this week but will stay as current as I can.
Vote: Mindreaver
Many of his posts I have minor issues with - barning reasons for vote on TS wagon in post 84; ignoring Jobie's valid attack of wagon-hopping in favor of asking GJ for reasons in 201; throwaway vote on IAMB in 267. Post 259 is what does it for me, though:
@Mindreaver: Of the people on your wagon, who is the strongest scum read, and who is the other strongest scum read from people off your wagon?
I'm so paranoid about that right now. I'll explain.
On the wagon, I think it's clear the worst vote is Seppel. Jobbie I've re-evaluated a bit, and his reasoning was fine. As you just explained yours, I'm okay with that too. I still don't know what Seppel's reasoning is beyond "I'll buy that for a buck". If ever there was a casual vote on a wagon, that was it.
Off the wagon, I'm frustrated with IABM. These posts are deliberately unhelpful, and whenever he's directly addressed he does something silly like his last post. I really thought I was going to get a real response when he had trouble quoting me last night, but then nothing happened. If I have to go off of general helpfulness to solving the game, he's near the bottom.
The reason I'm paranoid about those two reads, is that they are based off of lack of posts, and lack of analysis more than anything they've done.
I also didn't like matowars post, it was too self-conscious about his own participation. As if to say "I haven't been around but here is everything I think in one long sentence". I'm not sure whether this was somebody in a rush/busy, or somebody trying to appear engaged while really lurking. Time will tell on that one.
When pressured for scum reads, he comes up with Seppel for being Seppel (while also suspiciously borrowing phrasing from NAG's post 125 regarding Proph coaching Mindreaver; clearly that post caught his attention), IAMB for being "unhelpful" (scum love to get the town to view players as being difficult or not contributing when there's nothing to otherwise justify an attack), and Matowar for better reasons but that ultimately are just a fence sit. Futher, his Matowar vote follows Seppel's (one of his scum reads) vote just 10 posts prior at a time when there is no other wagon to divert attention to (he's already voting TS, which is a dead wagon, and Ghosting's wagon had been stalled out for a while already).
I''m hammered so this is gonna be short and sweet, but I read 125 like 100 times toniught and... wtf dude. Neither looks remotely the same. quote both parts that are so similar, or go home.
Off the top of my head? IMAB, Mindreaver, Huntzilla. I have leaning town reads on Proph and TS.
I will post more, but I also want to take it easy. I am a little wary that too many people like me, so I am just going to claim now. I am a neutral lover who can with either team, and since I have no actual alignment, I am inclined to believe my partner doesn't either.
As far as:
You come off way too uncaring. "This is dangerously close to a misrep" implies that you are trying to scare him, without actually engaging. Misrep is intended to be something intentionally done by scum, to flip the words town said. Either you think Hunt misreped you, or you have an alternative explaination to your voting style, or you were unclear. There is no middle ground like that quote tends to imply.
By dangerously close to a misrep, I meant that technically I voted for HP. The misrep is in the nuanced "he casually moved his vote from wagon to wagon". Because in my head, I hadn't. I had RVS, a silly vote about nothing substantial, then a legit vote on TS. It's misrepping my motives to say "I'm just voting wagons whichever way the wind blows". But I DID vote that way, so it's not as if it's a complete misrep. I'm not sure i'm explaining that well.
In short, I hadn't considered Jobie's perspective, that the 4th vote on HPs wagon would have weight regardless of the reason for that vote. I felt he was painting me as scum, who didn't care who got lynched, or for what reason. That was why I had a problem, and why I've backed away.
On a separate note, my voting frequency will be less over this weekend. I'm not gone per se, I'll just be enjoying a deserved weekend off with family, and probably will only check on this in the late evening, hopefully buzzing nicely
Businessman was at the bottom of my list, but still orange. I have no one red ATM.
So I don't think I am worth sheeping here.
As has been said, there is a handful of players making this thread more hospitable for scum. Among them, businessman has also done stone nothing.
So until I have an actual red read, I'm just going to park my vote on the person helping the town least. And that is businessman by a fairly wide margin.
He does not seem to respond to pressure in any way, which is what I would expect from scum that has decided to just embrace his internal scumminess for the lulz/wifom. But that doesn't mean very much. Is there any particular reason you feel you deserve to be on it? click here after reading this response
Seriously though, I was just making a list and you didn't come to mind. But consider yourself promoted to an extremely light town read for your thoughts on businessman, as they seem to mirror my own (albeit with different conclusions) Oh cool. My first real townread was 100% correct.
If anyone still thinks matowar might be scum, please show me a world in which someone makes this post in their first scum game.
This is a clear thought process that shows he is trying to improve his game. If he hasn't been scum before, what exactly is he trying to improve upon? He is perhaps overcorrecting for his past town play, but it is NOT scummy.
@matowar I'm sorry you're having so much trouble with the avatars. Perhaps it would help to think of mine as a smiley face instead of a table...
Seriously. His is just wood. Mine is two eyeballs and a smear of blood on a table. How is that more similar than a dozen cartoon characters? If mindreaver is scum, this may be the first instance of the "caught for the wrong reasons" scumtell that I've personally witnessed.
I'm not saying it is this way, but this could easily be "Dammit why am I being scumread? I'm totally copying my town meta!"
I am going to stop here for right now. I will be back later today to finish responding to things.
I would also like to ask what I have to do to get tappingstones to answer my questions. Perhaps when I get back I will quote them all again.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Jobie/IABM/Hunt: Since the three of you joined us a lil late, I'd like your opinions on the Ghosting/HWP wagons? I think the three of you could offer a different perspective since you weren't present during the action.
If you have time then please link the questions you consider unanswered.
I'm willing to wagon and lynch Hardwood paneling because I hate having to deal with replacements. don't know anything about what Ghosting or HWP wagons look like.
However...
Knowing what I know about NEWBS replacing under pressure I'm going to...
UNVOTE: Bloscovi
Vote: Hardwood Paneling
@Iso
Please consider this sexy role next time.
I just went back and reread HWP and for the life of me can't figure out the motivation behind his posts. I'd love to know what he's getting at and am interested in him answering the questions that have been laid out for him.
I think you and I are sympatico though. We might need some sort of mind meld eventually. One of those back and forths that someone will call "scum theater" and then get run up for it because we are both such obvious town by the end.
That person will probably just be paranoid town (likely matowar. just sayin) but I think we'll be able to figure something out. Apparently he's always like this. So I'm not sure what balls it takes to continue it.
Is that not the point of always acting scummy? So its easier when you do roll scum? How aware are you of votecounts?
Do you know who is voting for you without checking? umm... huh?
My questions to tappingstones:
Tell me what we would learn about the people on Mindreaver's wagon if we had his rolecard?
Why do you consider yourself a wildcard?
How hard are you trying to live up to huntzilla's meta read of you? (this one is probably rhetorical)
If you'd like to see them in context, you'll have to check my extremely lengthy posting history. Its two pages now.
Bonus questions:
Why do you keep referencing people not in the game?
Will you ever learn what a misrep is, or at least how to apply it to mafia?
I also have a question out to businessman. But it would be totally out of character for him to answer it.
So just keep on being scummy I guess.
Why are your questions so condescending?
I'm here to enjoy myself and figure out who the scum is, not constantly deal with a couple bad apples insulting others and being condescending.
And why are you making snotty remarks about businessmen?
Yeah, I'm likely to take some time away until people are back and playing. Right now there are several people just being snotty. And it's making me ask myself why I'm taking time out of a busy weekend to keep up? Look at the things NAG said about you and I right above.
It's just demotivating.
What are your thoughts on those reactions to you?
Who are your scumreads and why?
And I guess you can keep using misrep as a meaningless buzzword if thats what you're in to. Just know that you saying you've been misrepped will not elicit any response but an eyeroll. Boy who cried wolf and all.
I'll admit to getting a little frustrated with you not reading my posts or answering my questions and letting it leak into my wording. But those other three questions are not condescending at all, and I wouldn't be asking them if I didn't think the answers would help me figure you out. I would absolutely love to be sure of your alignment so I can use your insights appropriately.
I am being snotty with businessman. But, unlike you, he 100% deserves it. And I think he knows that.
When you act like a petulant child that just learned what wifom is, expect to be treated accordingly.
That IS a misrep. Like, did you even read that post?
So I was merely trying to show you that "crafted" and "over-explainy" can be subjective, and that it really lies in the eye of the beholder. I mean there are times where it is more clear than others, but epecially the "crafted" nature of posts can simply be related to the level of effort someone is putting into the game. For example; New players, try-hards, and sometimes scum yes...
Your point on NaG makes a lot of sense. I hadn't came at it from that PoV.
I was (am at this second) voting Bloscovi for a couple reasons. I didn't like his negativity, and I have found that comes from a scum mindset in the past, or at the very BEST an unhelpful town mindset. I also wanted to sheep Imab and see who hated that and what Imab might say. Plus, I was hoping it might cause Imab to actually put his "reasons" down in writing. Lastly, I was hoping it would cause BLoscovi to feel a little pressure and start talking.
With that said, now that he is on VLA it is not serving any purpose and there has been enough time for people to react, and I didn't get a lot. C'est le vie.
See above
I found it odd that you took to chainsawing through others questions. That usually comes from a place of scum trying to a) shape the conversation and b) protect their buddies. I am fine with people answering questions, but at least give the intended target time to answer.
I think you will quickly find that I don't give a ***** about people liking me one way or the other. One man's trash is another man's treasure. The question allows me to get into the head of the other person, because I can see how they would be thinking about it in the same context. That will allow me to figure out if it's from a "red" mindset or a "green"... However, now that it has been bastardized by the chainsawing, I get nothing out of it. I'm leaning towards you doing that out of a "red" mindset right now.
Yes. This. Very much this. Yeah, I think that is where the disconnect is. It isn't advice. It's eliciting a response to determine contextual thought process...
I don't like this for making excuses for lack of content and for the "Hunt being Hunt" which sounds vaguely similar to "Seppel being Seppel" which has traditionally come from a scum perspective.
I hate the need to throw in "I am town guaranteed," That reads scummy as hell to me. Then you have a chance to put a vote on a well-reasoned wagon, but instead you stick it on Imab, who has stated he was going to play this way and isn't really around right now. It looks like a throwaway vote on somewhere safe instead of taking a chance. It looks scummy. I agree with this entirely.
I really like these points. The Mato as newbscum was something I hadn't considered, and I think you are right. It is unlikely he would do something so bold as a newbscum.
I think you could be correct on the CFTWR tell as well. I am not getting townie vibes from Mindreaver, but I am getting the feeling of ... astonishment?... from him. I haven't joined the Harp wago yet, but I was about to until he requested replacement. What are you looking for here? Just a general impression on the wagon?
What was the criticism? I might not have payed attention to it. I'm attempting to play less emotional so that I can avoid misplays and mislynches at this stage. So I guess the short answer is that I probably wrote the criticisms off as unhelpful to the game and continued trudging along. Could you let me know which posts you were thinking of?
Scumreads right now are Harp because of his strange twisting of my thought processes and tunneling on me. Bad votes are still bad votes, but some come from scum. Mato's "catch up" post reeked of scum, but it very well could be from a newb just being himself. I have him at lean scum right now. I also keep getting scum vibes from Mindreavers posts, but then he presents himself better in the next. I have him at lean scum as well. I have MANY at null right now; Bloscovi, Seppel, Imab (though he is more of a town lean since this seems like normal Imab to me)... and others that I need more time to be able to tell; Proph, and GJ for example (both are in my townie lean pile right now).
Hopefully that helps.
Unvote Bloscovi
This is actually an instance of "selective quoting". The way this came about was:
1) TS to Mindreaver: Why do you think people are scumreading you?
2) Me to TS: Probably because I'm new and don't have a rep, so people are having a tough time reading me.
3) TS to Me: How does a rep come into play? My rep is that I'm a good player, how does that help?
4) ME to TS: Your rep is that your attitude is designed to provoke responses, which people are saying isn't a scum tell because <insert what I said here>.
5) You take only my #4, and say I'm thinking "Dammit why am I being scumread? I'm totally copying my town meta".
I don't think that's a fair representation of the whole conversation. I was asked specifically why I was being read that way, and THAT question provoked my response. Your selective quote makes it seem like I just volunteered that sentence out of nowhere, because I'm paranoid. Do you still think this is a scumtell on my part? How did you miss the whole convo? And why do you think Huntz agreed with you so quickly, since the entire conversation is right there in the thread?
If nothing else, TS's tilting at windmills with Mindreaver has clarified my read of him.
@brinatoo(I think?) I didn't like the HWP wagon because it came and went so quickly.
The Ghosting wagon in my notes (which are not up to date because I've been busy) is two early votes, so I don't think that's what you're referring to. I'll reread at some point to fix that.
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
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Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
@Jobie-How do you feel about Proph?
leantown
Mato
Hunt
Seppel
HWP
Ghosting
Jobie
mindreaver
null
IABM
NAG
Kraj
Hunger
Bloscovi
leanscum
Proph
GJ
Brinatoo
Discuss...
I assume you aren't town reading him, then?
Everything you just said about mato, I would apply to mindreaver right now. His last few responses to me have come off incredibly genuine, and his explaination of his mindset I could follow. Unvote Mindreaver.
I don't know, frankly. I do no IMAB will lie as town, but I don't think he ever point blank said he was just going to lurk to a town that is looking to be a bit more hostile to lurkers (:thumbsup:)
He has stated before that he will try to be more active. So, unless there was something you didn't like, I would like a reason.
I thought we were buddies....
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I'm gonna have to agree with Seppel. Posting more is kind of a waste if you're not posting awesome cat pictures. Like he's trying too hard. But instead of trying to solve this game let's just lynch Hardwood so we don't have to worry about getting a replacement.
@Seppel
@Matowar77
@Gentleman Johnny
@TappingStones
@imabusinessman
@Jobie
@Brinatoo
@Mindreaver
@Huntzilla
@Hunger
@Prophylaxis
@not_a_gimmick
@Hardwood_Paneling
@Kraj
@Ghosting
@Bloscovi
Could you all tell me what you had for dinner. Also if anyone wants to discuss which character in Sonic The Hedgehog is the best I'm willing to hijack this thread and discuss that at length.
This was before this game ever started, after Stargate.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Also this is what I have to say about what Sonic the Hedgehog has become: http://tailkiss.com/sfnet/comic.php?quote=975
No other insights or reactions? The reason I am suspicious of you is that I don't think you care about catching scum this game. Feels eerily similar to Classic where you made a lot of comments about procedural stuff and didn't push reads very hard. This game is a stark contrast with AA. I challenge anyone who played or read through AA to argue that this is the same GJ (am I wrong?)
I thought we talked about meta, TS. I am trying to townhunt more than scum hunt this game. So yes, I expect my play to be different than AA.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Then I'm going to insist on more townhunting.
Who is town by the way?
I really need to research how much of an actual scumtell this is.
Why are so few people trying to find the scum?
So sure. You have been misrepresented.
Can you answer my three simple, non-condescending questions?
If you answer them correctly, I will quite happily not ask you any more in perpetuity. Because frankly, its exhausting.
1. You stated that the mindreaver wagon is the only good one. Why do you say that/what information would we gain from his flip?
2. You said that businessman is a wildcard like you. Why do you consider yourself a wildcard?
3. What is the purpose of constantly referencing players who are not in this game? (I am not confident this is alignment indicative in any way, but please humor me and answer it)
1. Ghosting and Mato are clearly town and Hunt is playing well and I haven't picked up anything scummy from him yet. Mindreaver did look like he was trying hard to be on a wagon. And it felt slightly off. Based on his more recent interactions I've cooled off on that read(My T/S list is up for discussion). I'm not sure what information we would get from his flip, at the time I just would have been more interested in seeing him get strung up than guys I felt were town.
2. More that others consider me a wildcard.
3. Not sure which things you are referring to. I also don't know what you consider as "constant" as I can point out other players in this game that have multiple references to outside players. The more interesting question is why you are so curious about me...referencing players?
May I ask why you aren't scum-hunting? I don't know who you are so should I assume that you are another one of these guys that want to "townhunt" today
If you are town I would advise trying to get on board with pressuring the people who aren't giving much content and of course anyone you are unsure of. Discussion would be greatly appreciated. Scum can't hide as easier if they have to constantly interact with people who are trying to catch them.
I have trouble believing that a Town!TS has these reads.
I'm not fully caught up, just skimming through on phone while I prepare for a barbeque this afternoon, but these reads are almost polar opposite to mine.
Proph is very probably town, Brinatoo is a decently strong town read, and I think Ghosting spewed GJ clear as town.
I'll be doing a full re-read to catch up this evening likely, since life has kicked me in the balls the past week, and I don't have my finger on pulse of game, but these reads just stand out to me in terms of sheer contrast to my own.
I guess it'll be my objective to try and figure out which of the three reasons for that it is.
(Namely: 1. Tapping is town and wrong. 2. I am wrong. 3. Tapping is scum. I guess 4. Tapping is scum, and I am wrong, is also possible, but that seems to be the least likely world)
I will go into more detail on my early game thought process and why Ghosting is scum when I can post more in depth, but for now it's time to grill enough meat to clog my arteries properly.
Those options you listed don't make sense. What if I am right about some of yours and I am right about some of mine? What if we are both town and the scum resides among the lurkers? You need to think a little more outside the box. It isn't a "you vs. me dichotomy"
"What if I am right about some of mine and you are right about some of yours? What if we are both wrong to a decent extent?
#40 bloscovi calls TCM town
#43 ghosting barns bloscovi
#45 bloscovi votes ghosting
#46 prophylaxis barns bloscovi
#47 ghosting defends himself to proph (not bloscovi)
Barning a buddy, or barning someone else's townread of a buddy that early, are very weird plays I can't see scum!ghosting making.
I'm calling this ghosting is unaligned with bloscovi and with TCM hardwood and tapping are not knowingly aligned unless I am on their team too (I'm not)
Calling out your buddy for treating you differently than another player? Nah. I liked this post at the time, but hardwood has since stated he does not justify townreads unless they are about to be lynched.
If he doesn't replace, I would like to get to the bottom of this.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I rather like the page 3 interaction between tapping and TCM. They could definitely both be town having a nice, calm chat about how to win.
TCM is forgettable, but vaguely villagery. I am familiar with him, and know that he is capable of fooling people in general and me specifically, but I trust him for now.
Jobie seems ok too.
Brinatoo asks some leading questions. Noting this here so I can revisit it.
Huntzilla eventually explained quite adequately the one thing made me balk about townreading him, so now I am.
Speaking of: How would you describe the state of your eye? Watchful?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I like mindreaver's spunk in #201, but it certainly doesn't clear him.
Calling out sheeple on your wagon would be a pretty inspired move as scum.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I just got to #226 and am out of time. That is where I will start when I get back to the thread.
Mod: I unvoted TappingStones in post 121 and have not voted since. I will also be on vacation a few days this week but will stay as current as I can.
Vote: Mindreaver
Many of his posts I have minor issues with - barning reasons for vote on TS wagon in post 84; ignoring Jobie's valid attack of wagon-hopping in favor of asking GJ for reasons in 201; throwaway vote on IAMB in 267. Post 259 is what does it for me, though:
When pressured for scum reads, he comes up with Seppel for being Seppel (while also suspiciously borrowing phrasing from NAG's post 125 regarding Proph coaching Mindreaver; clearly that post caught his attention), IAMB for being "unhelpful" (scum love to get the town to view players as being difficult or not contributing when there's nothing to otherwise justify an attack), and Matowar for better reasons but that ultimately are just a fence sit. Futher, his Matowar vote follows Seppel's (one of his scum reads) vote just 10 posts prior at a time when there is no other wagon to divert attention to (he's already voting TS, which is a dead wagon, and Ghosting's wagon had been stalled out for a while already).
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
Are you also in the "Who Usurped Roger Rabbit" game over at Cracked?
I wasn't planning on getting too serious before page 12. But if you wanna get serious then we better prepare...
Yeah, once I start building the Box we will definitely have to mind meld this game. I just need a little more time (and scumhunt a bit more).
I'm fine with Huntzilla's explanation, though I'm still a bit paranoid about him just being.. different. There's no denying that his posts are much improved compared to what I'm usually seeing, though.
Huntzilla: You pointed out two things that might be indicative of a scum mindset from Mindreaver. Why aren't you voting him then?
That was a pain in the behind to track, heh.
Are you able to walk me through your reasoning as to why Brinatoo is a decently strong town read? I haven't been able to get to his posts yet, but his posts so far aren't moving me one way or another.
Plus, what do you think of Ghosting's question time post in #144? I was considering unvoting Ghosting for that since the questions were decently strong, but I still want to keep it on there for [reasons].
That was one of the primary reasons why I was townreading him. "Sheeple" is more of a term of townie frustration, I think.
Oh yeah. When it comes to Sally Acorn she was actually alright. Considering how the comic flubs so many characterizations I'm surprised that that went well for her. But I absolutely hated her character in the Sonic SatAM version. She stole screentime from Rotor Walrus. Plus in the second season she the ABC executives forced her to put some clothes on so that she didn't appear so stripperific. Apparantly one of the executives pre-teen sons was being led down the dark path of furry fandom.
For the comics my favorite character is easily Thrash The Tasmanian Devil. He was allowed to beat up and punk Knuckles when usually the main characters are given plot armor.
For the games it's something of a tie between Fang The Sniper and Vector The Crocodile. Fang weilds a gun which is pretty intense for the kid friendly series and is a bounty hunter. Vector is a really good guy who cares about his teammates in a real way. He also seems to have dimensions to his character even if it's shallow. That's says more than most of the characters in the games and the comics.
Sucks about the lame dinner at the airport. Remember to arrive about 4 hours before your flight takes off due to TSA budget cuts.
I''m hammered so this is gonna be short and sweet, but I read 125 like 100 times toniught and... wtf dude. Neither looks remotely the same. quote both parts that are so similar, or go home.
Off the top of my head? IMAB, Mindreaver, Huntzilla. I have leaning town reads on Proph and TS.
I will post more, but I also want to take it easy. I am a little wary that too many people like me, so I am just going to claim now. I am a neutral lover who can with either team, and since I have no actual alignment, I am inclined to believe my partner doesn't either.
The GJ way path to no lynching: