@Vaimes- Is it normal for you to not scum hunt and just pick at others opinions? Like, I haven't seen you making any cases. Just asking little busy work questions about other people's ideas.
*sighing intensifies*
Ok. So that's a yes?
I'll have to find it from a computer to see why it didnt make an impression. Right now, it's all I can do to keep up the formatting on mobile.
I can tell you that vaimes is completely null in my mind. I like vaimes, but he hasn't really showed us anything yet.
maybe after you finally finish the long promised wheat case you can also post a t/s list so we can find something we agree on to work together
"Long promised"=yesterday....are you serious Tom?
@Tom-Serious question. Was this a misrep or just an error on your part?
@Vaimes- Is it normal for you to not scum hunt and just pick at others opinions? Like, I haven't seen you making any cases. Just asking little busy work questions about other people's ideas.
yes
I am very passive and derive most of my reads simply from asking/clarifying others' opinions, noting them, and (usually) presenting them later when I feel it's relevant to a change in a read or something
I made some cases in a couple of games on this site but, as said, those are the exceptions to my usual style
@Vaimes- Is it normal for you to not scum hunt and just pick at others opinions? Like, I haven't seen you making any cases. Just asking little busy work questions about other people's ideas.
yes
I am very passive and derive most of my reads simply from asking/clarifying others' opinions, noting them, and (usually) presenting them later when I feel it's relevant to a change in a read or something
I made some cases in a couple of games on this site but, as said, those are the exceptions to my usual style
I'm actually not as against this as some others. But I do think you could do some ISOs and give us some reads on players. There is actually quite a bit of content already.
Mato I wouldn't have a huge issue with, but WG needs to findhimself with me.
Actually, Seppel and WG. DO IT REST OF THE PLAYERS. ME, WG, AND SEPPEL. JUST...DO IT. DONT LET YOUR FEARS, BECOME FEARS. JUST DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO IT.
Why do you have a scumread on Seppel?
WHEATGRINDERMYBOTTOM:
No, you are MY bottom. Good morning, ****cub.
Why do have a town read on dota2 Frozen Throne, and what makes you think ***** tits McGee (aka Seppel, aka the craziest guy, aka, Frosted Flakes) has a scum read. Almost postivie I asked you, but just in case. RHARAHRH
You did ask, but you made it sound like you were mostly asking about Seppel. Since I answered that, I'll answer about Dota.
The answer is post 129, in which he asks the right questions and also makes decent observations. I also just looked at the rest of his posts which I couldn't remember off-hand, and I see the same from pretty much all of his other posts.
Mato I wouldn't have a huge issue with, but WG needs to findhimself with me.
Actually, Seppel and WG. DO IT REST OF THE PLAYERS. ME, WG, AND SEPPEL. JUST...DO IT. DONT LET YOUR FEARS, BECOME FEARS. JUST DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO IT.
Why do you have a scumread on Seppel?
WHEATGRINDERMYBOTTOM:
No, you are MY bottom. Good morning, ****cub.
Why do have a town read on dota2 Frozen Throne, and what makes you think ***** tits McGee (aka Seppel, aka the craziest guy, aka, Frosted Flakes) has a scum read. Almost postivie I asked you, but just in case. RHARAHRH
You did ask, but you made it sound like you were mostly asking about Seppel. Since I answered that, I'll answer about Dota.
The answer is post 129, in which he asks the right questions and also makes decent observations. I also just looked at the rest of his posts which I couldn't remember off-hand, and I see the same from pretty much all of his other posts.
Is there something wrong with you? I have said twice now that when I have time for the long post it will come. Why are you not hounding all the people who are barely playing the game.
Stop acting like a child please. "Mommy are we there yet? Are we there yet?"
ah, but youre asking the wrong question.
towntapping is not conventionally townie. but he is consistent.
the better question is "what else is tappingstonesy?" and the answer is "basically everything"
*sighing intensifies*
Ok. So that's a yes?
I'll have to find it from a computer to see why it didnt make an impression. Right now, it's all I can do to keep up the formatting on mobile.
I can tell you that vaimes is completely null in my mind. I like vaimes, but he hasn't really showed us anything yet.
maybe after you finally finish the long promised wheat case you can also post a t/s list so we can find something we agree on to work together
"Long promised"=yesterday....are you serious Tom?
@Tom-Serious question. Was this a misrep or just an error on your part?
yes, this was an intentional misrep. thats clearly the only explanation.
idk how long ago you started promising a post about wheat, but it seems longer the more times you mention it without doing it.
(for the record, i just checked and it was 41 hours ago.)
i also looked back at your vaimes case. the thing you say is "particularly alarming" was based on something iso said, not vaimes. the rest is just vaimes vaimesing around and being pleasant.
like, you could be right about vaimes. but that wasnt proof of anything.
if i may get referential for a moment, youre grasping at macaws.
I think Johnny is scum, and I don't want to see him on the bench.
The first post of any significance is a naked scum read on GJ. It's directed towards Iso. It's not clear why Wheat gave no reasoning behind this. Others have been criticized in this very game for not showing any work or a single explanation for this kind of read.
Post 24 implies to me that Johnny wants to be the strongest player on the bench - It feels like he wants free reign of any jury he's on, and the proposed jury doesn't allow for that.
GJ's post doesn't imply this at all and it's quite early for Wheat to be suggesting that this is some kind of scum read. Equally easy would be for me to say "Hey look! Iso picked a jury team with SC and other strong players to blend in. Any set-up suggested can be interpreted for WIFOM purposes and I don't like that people are trying to crucify someone so hard for essentially no reason. Besides, GJ wouldn't have "free reign" on that proposed jury.
Your only sentence on Vaimes is that he'll tether the other two to reality - I don't know Vaimes so that means nothing to me, try again.
What is the point here? GJ knows Vaimes and you don't. He gave you a reason and because you don't know Vaimes that means his reason is invalid? How is YOUR lack of knowledge something that he has to solve? That's actually something for you to figure out by skimming previous Vaimes games.
I've read your post #7 three times now, Iso. Let me put it another way since you're being stubborn, why Vaimes instead of someone like Rhand?
This one is directed at Iso. Again, the way you are asking this doesn't come across like you really care about the answer. Considering your reaction to GJ telling you about why he picked Vaimes I don't see why an Iso answer should be more useful.
I want to know more about this. I've reread the Sir Chris posts up till this post. There's nothing there. He talks about looking out a window. That's it. Buddying with a strong player? Being lazy? What is this?
I'm eager to figure out alignments, re: Chris. For you, I don't care about your mindset because I can't read you anyway. What I'm trying to dig into is literally any info about Vaimes since you regard him pretty highly, and you post more often than anyone so you're a good jumping off point or SO I THOUGHT
You are eager to figure out alignments? How is that true based on your play? You town cleared Chris with zero data.
The part about wanting to know about Vaimes is also a falsehood. If you were eager to know about Vaimes you would have already asked to see some relevant games from him. Others have already asked for your relevant games and you dug them up. Asking Iso his opinion of Vaimes AFTER he's already suggested him (along with GJ) is just trying to ride along with Iso.
Quote from Gentleman Johnny »
I find your argument about my complaint to be incorrect then.
you find it to be *incorrect*??? Of course it's automatically incorrect by your perspective if you're town, why would you phrase it that way?
In response to GJ. You admit that his answer implies his town as if that's strange. What's going on here?
[quote from="Wheat_Grinder »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/677880-ace-attorney-mafia-investigation-1-unlimited?comment=517"]As to why Chris is town: Most folks tend to play around more when they're town, and if they play around as scum it doesn't come off as genuine. In particular, my gut thinks Chris is exactly that way.
As you well know, Sir Chris is very hard to read as either alignment. I've found him to be playful and carefree and scum and town. it isn't a tell. This reeks of backpedaling. You have to do better than this or else it looks like a slip.
While you're not most players, in this regard you are like most players.
I didn't used to think so but then I discovered you're secretly a massive weeb.
OoG: Alan Shore is the best character of all time, but I feel like The Practice wouldn't get as lighthearted as Boston Legal so I won't go out of my way to watch it. It's unfortunate. Boston Legal is like the only legal show that ever interested me.
SC rightly catches onto Wheat's mistake. Wheat tries to say he has a town tell on SC and then changes the subject to something non-game related.
TappingStones is scum. I feel like CitricBase believed his link between Vaimes/Iso even though it's kinda dumb, but I don't believe TappingStones does - he's pushing the wagon because it's there I feel like.
There is no wagon. What are you talking about? I found Iso over-stepping with the Vaimes non-sense. Even Vaimes admitted he has no idea what Iso is going on about. To be fair I referenced my two previous games with Vaimes that have no such "analytical Vaimes" and Iso said those games are outliers (perhaps). My questioning here is fair and reasonable. Your push against me is hasty as was your push against GJ and your town read of SC.
I agree that Vaimes/Iso never went anywhere, but that didn't stop TappingStones from trying - Citric lightly tapped the wagon, and Tapping was on it immediately.
Even when the reasoning was showed to be bunk.
Again, there was never a wagon. There was Citrus posting his idea and me adding to it and asking based on my games with Vaimes why the weird statement from Iso. Iso acknowledged that my games with Vaimes DON'T show the qualities that he is giving to Vaimes. This should be enough for you to get where I'm going.
Person A hears that person B has a behavior pattern of which person A has not witnessed.
Person A goes back and reads the previous games and then asks person C why he made the statement.
Person C admits that based on Person A's experience he knows why I feel this way about Person B.
Please show your work on the statement that "the case was shown to be bunk". Because "the case" was actually acknowledged by the accused as showing merit.
My town read of Chris came from the fact that he's having fun. I don't think that he could be as genuine about it as scum.
You are making SC sound like a terrible player and we all know this to be untrue. SC has shown many times that he can have fun and joke around as scum. Even more so than this. He's been pretty tame so far.
My problem is not that you are RP'ing (which is completely appropriate and within bounds). My problem is that it doesn't feel genuine. You having stated that you would do so in sign-up thread explains a lot of that - I feel like if you hadn't said you would RP, you wouldn't be RP'ing right now. It doesn't feel like you really want to do it anymore, but you feel you have to because you said you would.
This part is total scum writing.
My rping doesn't feel genuine? Explain this. Show in detail which parts aren't genuine. All they consist of are lead-ins to some posts. And I enjoy doing them. Explain why you think I don't want to do them? I have many more to come as people start dying and the game progresses. I also don't feel like I have to at all. I could stop at any moment and no one would even reference them again. I wouldn't think twice about stopping the RP. I'm in no way bound to do it the whole game if it becomes a chore.
It's just such a fake thing for you to say. I can't imagine anyone from a town mindset ever thinking about this. It's just...gross.
HOS: Wheat Grinder
I will support most lynch groups that include Wheat as I think SC and Iso are going to see he's scum right away and then we will be in sweet shape for Day two.
tapping-
All your cases are about people playing poorly (in your mind at least)
You aren't showing any scum motivation whatsoever. This is now common to your cases on me, vaimes, and wheat.
Like, I see what you're saying, or at least what I think you're trying to say. And I appreciate the work you're clearly putting in. But it hasn't been convincing in the least.
If it's obvious to you why scum would be more likely to do/say these things, please explain it. Because as far as i can tell, these are just meaningless isos.
tapping-
All your cases are about people playing poorly (in your mind at least)
You aren't showing any scum motivation whatsoever. This is now common to your cases on me, vaimes, and wheat.
Like, I see what you're saying, or at least what I think you're trying to say. And I appreciate the work you're clearly putting in. But it hasn't been convincing in the least.
If it's obvious to you why scum would be more likely to do/say these things, please explain it. Because as far as i can tell, these are just meaningless isos.
I don't think you read what I wrote. I clearly explained the scum mindset. The SC part is very obvious. His hasty jumps on me and GJ feel too forced. His retreats are nervous at best.
I can't see why you would be so dismissive. Like, what have you actually done to pursue scum this game?
no, if I wanted to be dismissive I would have just said "your cases are awful. Let the grownups talk"
I agree that wheat is wrong to have town cleared chris so early. I even agree that hes incorrectly scum reading you for *****ty reasons.
Tell me why this makes wheat scum rather than silly
no, if I wanted to be dismissive I would have just said "your cases are awful. Let the grownups talk"
I agree that wheat is wrong to have town cleared chris so early. I even agree that hes incorrectly scum reading you for *****ty reasons.
Tell me why this makes wheat scum rather than silly
Ok, so who is scum Tom?
Wheat has had the scummiest posts. Next is you and then Vaimes. What's a man to do?
dude, i think rhand is just bad at time zones.
he posted that at 4 PM california time.
though to be fair i believe i was taking a nap under the stage at the time...
seriously though. read the last two pages and tell me tappingstones is mafia. you can just feel how bad he wants me to be scum.
Nah I'm talking about my American passengers.
This evening I have no time to continue the reading. Our drop off point tomorrow has changed and i need to rework my city tour.
@D_V: Can you expand on your current view of Cyan? I know you unvoted him recently, but you didn't mention if that's because you think he's town or if it was for some other reason. If you're still suspicious of him, mind sharing the rational? From what I can gather, it mostly seems based on him wanting GJ lynched and not believing his claim will be valid. Aside from that one point, I've been reading Cyan as pretty firmly town, as his thought process has been almost identical to mine on a lot of issues. If you're able to explain a scum motivation for his posts, I'd be happy to hear what you have to say (if you still think he is scummy).
Additionally, how are you feeling about Wheat? Three days ago you said you initially assumed he was scum, but have to reread him. Did you end up rereading him? If not, I have to assume you still think he is scum (if you haven't reread him, I can't see how your view would change, since no new information would have been presented)? If you did reread, how did that affect your view?
Also, initially, you suspected WG was scum, but within a couple of posts voted Cyan. Was your scumread on Cyan stronger than your scumread on WG? I have to assume so since you never voted Wheat at all. If this is the case, I'm curious how such a strong read ended up with you unvoting him. If it's not the case, I'd need a reason for you voting Cyan but not Wheat.
One other thing, you dismissed the case on GJ as stupid, but didn't let us know why. You immediately followed that up (in the same post) with: I need to reread GJ. Why do you need to reread him if the case is obviously stupid?
Please respond to all of these if you can, more information = more stuff to analyze, and I'm curious to hear your responses.
oh good, I have another vote. vote ghosting
that was way overexplainy
And reads more like a setup than actual questions
Can you clarify what you mean by "overexplainy"? I'm assuming you're referencing the various follow-up questions I included in my queries, which are references to D_V's play and highlight the reason I'm asking the question? If that's the case, are you saying you'd prefer I ask less questions, and therefore receive less information in turn? If you think a player is behaving abnormally or in a suspicious manner, would you not be wanting them to be as thorough with their responses as possible? When you watch a presidential debate, do the narrators simply say, "Do you support Wall Street?", or do they say, "You say you don't support Wall Street, yet I see you voted for this bill. Was your vote for this bill for reasons unclear to the casual observer, or is it an indication that you do in fact support Wall Street.", etc. That might be a horrible comparison, but essentially, I'm saying that there's zero reason to not be thorough and provide follow-up questions, support, etc.
If you'd like a simplified version that further demonstrates the simplicity behind my questions, here you are:
1) What is your current opinion of Cyan?
+ You unvoted him recently, does that mean your opinion changed?
+ I think he's town, what makes you think he's scum?
2) What is your current opinion of Wheat?
+You thought he was scum, but now say you need to reread him. Following up on if he actually did what he said he would. If a player says they're going to reread another player, and that they thought that player is scum, it's pretty important to make sure these interactions aren't ignored.
3) Why do you need to reread a case that you claim is obviously stupid?
As you can see, there's really no complexity here. I don't intend to cut down my posts and ensure they're tl;dr ready, because everything I'm saying, I'm saying for a reason. You get a lot more quality out of the content you ask if you put a little extra time into your investigative processes.
Also tom, you said that my post #473 "was more of the ghosting [you] expected" in post #475. Seeing as post #572 is very similarly formatted, why did the former make you feel better about me, and the latter make you feel worse?
I think Johnny is scum, and I don't want to see him on the bench.
The first post of any significance is a naked scum read on GJ. It's directed towards Iso. It's not clear why Wheat gave no reasoning behind this. Others have been criticized in this very game for not showing any work or a single explanation for this kind of read.
I don't always give reasoning behind my reads, especially on the first two pages.
Post 24 implies to me that Johnny wants to be the strongest player on the bench - It feels like he wants free reign of any jury he's on, and the proposed jury doesn't allow for that.
GJ's post doesn't imply this at all and it's quite early for Wheat to be suggesting that this is some kind of scum read. Equally easy would be for me to say "Hey look! Iso picked a jury team with SC and other strong players to blend in. Any set-up suggested can be interpreted for WIFOM purposes and I don't like that people are trying to crucify someone so hard for essentially no reason. Besides, GJ wouldn't have "free reign" on that proposed jury.
I have several issues with this so I've bolded them all. In order:
1. Yes, they do.
2. Too early? At 24 posts everyone's been allowed RVS and there's usually meat by then (and in this case, there wasn't RVS so that means there was extra meat).
3. I suppose you could say that, but the tone doesn't really back it up. Then again, I'm ***** at reading Iso.
4. Even if you were right and I had no reason (which is false), I tend to like to do exactly that - it goes hand-in-hand with not giving reasoning; make a man sweat even just a little and you can taste if he's a liar.
5. Yes, and he was unhappy with that. That's the basis of my reasoning - how can you say that it doesn't imply it when you agree with the basis?
Your only sentence on Vaimes is that he'll tether the other two to reality - I don't know Vaimes so that means nothing to me, try again.
What is the point here? GJ knows Vaimes and you don't. He gave you a reason and because you don't know Vaimes that means his reason is invalid? How is YOUR lack of knowledge something that he has to solve? That's actually something for you to figure out by skimming previous Vaimes games.
You mean Iso, rather than GJ. My objective was to figure out why Iso evaluated Vaimes so high, because Iso is not someone who gives out that level of respect that quickly to new folks, so I see it as weird. Always, always, ALWAYS jump on weird.
I've read your post #7 three times now, Iso. Let me put it another way since you're being stubborn, why Vaimes instead of someone like Rhand?
This one is directed at Iso. Again, the way you are asking this doesn't come across like you really care about the answer. Considering your reaction to GJ telling you about why he picked Vaimes I don't see why an Iso answer should be more useful.
Following up on a question that wasn't satisfactorily answered means I don't care about it?
And again, it was all to Iso in the first place, not to GJ.
I want to know more about this. I've reread the Sir Chris posts up till this post. There's nothing there. He talks about looking out a window. That's it. Buddying with a strong player? Being lazy? What is this?
When I saw Chris' looking out the window thing I immediately thought to myself, "Yep, that's Chris". No other RP/storytelling bit that has happened this whole game has made me feel that way.
I'm eager to figure out alignments, re: Chris. For you, I don't care about your mindset because I can't read you anyway. What I'm trying to dig into is literally any info about Vaimes since you regard him pretty highly, and you post more often than anyone so you're a good jumping off point or SO I THOUGHT
You are eager to figure out alignments? How is that true based on your play? You town cleared Chris with zero data.
The part about wanting to know about Vaimes is also a falsehood. If you were eager to know about Vaimes you would have already asked to see some relevant games from him. Others have already asked for your relevant games and you dug them up. Asking Iso his opinion of Vaimes AFTER he's already suggested him (along with GJ) is just trying to ride along with Iso.
Yes, I'm eager. It's very true based on my play where I now have decent reads on oh 8-10 people. I cleared him with reasoning that makes perfect sense to me - you're new, so get used to hearing this - WELCOME TO THE MIND OF THE GRINDER
It's also not a falsehood. Hearing about Vaimes from Iso is completely different information than hearing it from Vaimes. I didn't want the info from Vaimes, that wouldn't have been helpful - the information from Iso would have been very helpful.
As to why Chris is town: Most folks tend to play around more when they're town, and if they play around as scum it doesn't come off as genuine. In particular, my gut thinks Chris is exactly that way.
As you well know, Sir Chris is very hard to read as either alignment. I've found him to be playful and carefree and scum and town. it isn't a tell. This reeks of backpedaling. You have to do better than this or else it looks like a slip.
As I well know, eh???
I had a hard time grasping Chris' mindset until one day I found out he was, on some level, a weeb (I mean no offense, Chris, I'm one too). I don't understand how you can call it backpedaling when I've doubled down on this all game.
And the point isn't that he's playful, it's that he's GENUINELY playful. There is a MASSIVE difference.
While you're not most players, in this regard you are like most players.
I didn't used to think so but then I discovered you're secretly a massive weeb.
OoG: Alan Shore is the best character of all time, but I feel like The Practice wouldn't get as lighthearted as Boston Legal so I won't go out of my way to watch it. It's unfortunate. Boston Legal is like the only legal show that ever interested me.
SC rightly catches onto Wheat's mistake. Wheat tries to say he has a town tell on SC and then changes the subject to something non-game related.
Oh ***** I said Chris was a weeb there too.
And yes, I did move on to non-game related. The timing wasn't good, but James Spader is my favorite actor and I couldn't help myself.
TappingStones is scum. I feel like CitricBase believed his link between Vaimes/Iso even though it's kinda dumb, but I don't believe TappingStones does - he's pushing the wagon because it's there I feel like.
There is no wagon. What are you talking about? I found Iso over-stepping with the Vaimes non-sense. Even Vaimes admitted he has no idea what Iso is going on about. To be fair I referenced my two previous games with Vaimes that have no such "analytical Vaimes" and Iso said those games are outliers (perhaps). My questioning here is fair and reasonable. Your push against me is hasty as was your push against GJ and your town read of SC.
So get trapped in semantics then - You saw someone else push on Iso and Vaimes, and you pushed too, even though Citric's reasoning was bunk ("Man, Iso sure talks about Vaimes a lot..." no ***** when I'm trying to press Iso for info on Vaimes).
I agree that Vaimes/Iso never went anywhere, but that didn't stop TappingStones from trying - Citric lightly tapped the wagon, and Tapping was on it immediately.
Even when the reasoning was showed to be bunk.
Again, there was never a wagon. There was Citrus posting his idea and me adding to it and asking based on my games with Vaimes why the weird statement from Iso. Iso acknowledged that my games with Vaimes DON'T show the qualities that he is giving to Vaimes. This should be enough for you to get where I'm going.
Person A hears that person B has a behavior pattern of which person A has not witnessed.
Person A goes back and reads the previous games and then asks person C why he made the statement.
Person C admits that based on Person A's experience he knows why I feel this way about Person B.
Please show your work on the statement that "the case was shown to be bunk". Because "the case" was actually acknowledged by the accused as showing merit.
I was calling it bunk because you barned Citric. I don't know what you're talking about here but your barn of Citric was awful and THAT's what I called bunk.
My town read of Chris came from the fact that he's having fun. I don't think that he could be as genuine about it as scum.
You are making SC sound like a terrible player and we all know this to be untrue. SC has shown many times that he can have fun and joke around as scum. Even more so than this. He's been pretty tame so far.
You seem to be under the delusion that just because a player is good doesn't mean you can't gain insight on them.
My problem is not that you are RP'ing (which is completely appropriate and within bounds). My problem is that it doesn't feel genuine. You having stated that you would do so in sign-up thread explains a lot of that - I feel like if you hadn't said you would RP, you wouldn't be RP'ing right now. It doesn't feel like you really want to do it anymore, but you feel you have to because you said you would.
This part is total scum writing.
My rping doesn't feel genuine? Explain this. Show in detail which parts aren't genuine. All they consist of are lead-ins to some posts. And I enjoy doing them. Explain why you think I don't want to do them? I have many more to come as people start dying and the game progresses. I also don't feel like I have to at all. I could stop at any moment and no one would even reference them again. I wouldn't think twice about stopping the RP. I'm in no way bound to do it the whole game if it becomes a chore.
It's just such a fake thing for you to say. I can't imagine anyone from a town mindset ever thinking about this. It's just...gross.
I thought about this. I started typing, then erased it because it wasn't right. I went to the bathroom, and I urinated while pondering this. The only answer I have is: Explain to me the concept of blue.
To me, it feels forced. It feels...off. And if I could point exactly to where, I would. But I can't, because I can't explain the concept of blue. And I don't mean "certain wavelengths of light produce the color perceived as blue", I mean "but why do we perceive it as blue instead of something else entirely"?
---
Your case mostly boils down to "I don't understand it, so it must be wrong". Normally, that's the sort of case that I expect from town. However, you're pretty clever and I think you hit on it as a pretty good vehicle with which to push me. So in the end I still think you're scum.
Heyo, everyone!
I just looked at this player list. I'm going to ******* love this game.
In other news, I mostly understand this game's mechanics and will read this game sometime this week. Stay tuned.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My thoughts are with the friends and family of the Orlando Shooting victims and with the rest of the LGBTQA+ community.
Check out my Newborder Peasant Cube here! http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/37467
Necarg, please don't acknowledge this in any way whatsoever.
True Name Mafia (Win),Clan Contest IX Mafia (Win), Bravely Default Mafia (Loss), BOTAS (loss), BfV (Loss), Ace Attourney (loss)
Rules Advisor before they were eradicated
Heyo, everyone!
I just looked at this player list. I'm going to ******* love this game.
In other news, I mostly understand this game's mechanics and will read this game sometime this week. Stay tuned.
Daisuke pulled a manilla envelope from his briefcase. "Mr. Vaimes, I'd like you to explain a few interactions that we've come across, if you don't mind"...
Hi TS. I hope we can be friends this game.
If you are scum I will have to kill you so I'll keep a safe distance = p
This one is glossed over because it's so early, but Iso and a couple others are advocating for Vaimes to be on the jury. Vaimes wants to pick people he likes (which has ZERO correlation to helping us actually win).
Was joke. Clearly if I'm going to spend the entire game only voting for people I like, I deserve to be lynched without mercy.
At this point Sir Chris hasn't really said anything. The last sentence is strange. Why three pages? Why not right away? Why not after seeing a read you don't like? Seems like a fake thing to say.
Was also joke. I did the same thing in Stargate: someone called Sir Chris town in the first couple of pages (I think it was Cyan), and I voiced my disagreement.
Three pages was also not a literal statement. So in a sense, yes, it was a fake statement.
I don't understand this. So you agree that this was a fake action on your part? Why would town need to fake something like this? Can you see why that comes across as scummy behavior?
Like, Vaimes has a lot of posts but their isn't anything like trying to help us select or figure things out...at all.
The reason it strikes me is that Iso has defended him three or four times in thread. I don't remember Iso ever saying such nice things about Vaimes before. Does anyone else? I referenced my two games with Vaimes and Iso called them "outliers" or non-indicative I can't remember the exact word he used. Something is strange here.
I play the game on my own time, is basically all I have to say to this. Plus, it was the Intro phase and I tend to stay on the sidelines when it comes to mechanical discussions because I suck at them.
Again, I mean it's just fluff. Vaimes wasn't like this in Classic when he was town.
I mentioned this in Mafia vs. Wolves, but that game was a New Thing for me. I used to fluff a /lot/ until I got annoyed at people scumreading for lack of fluff, even when I actually was town, because I wasn't in the mood to do it.
So would you say that in the early part as town you are putting the burden on the rest of us to find the scum? Under that rational shouldn't you be less eager to criticize those of us that are putting time and effort into looking for interactions? I can't tell you how annoyed I feel when I put a lot of effort into the game to see people refuse to post or vote me after one sentence and then never back it up.
Well yeah, we do need defendants to be scum at some point and then convicted or we LOSE. [u]It's not ideal, it's a requirement of the win condition.[/i] And yes, lynching town is bad. = /
:/
This is a case of tone not coming across correctly on the Internet. Imagine I obnoxiously emphasized the word 'ideally' to indicate that it was, in fact, completely necessary. I could have bolded/underlined/whatever the word, but eh.
Another joke, heavily implied with the second hashtag.
I joke a lot.
Can you see why joking a lot looks like fluff? It doesn't advance the game state and increases your thread presence. Jokes are fine but we are trying to win the game as well.
This is particularly alarming. Iso is a diehard that Vaimes is an "analyst". But he has now said otherwise twice and said he has to fight not to sheep people. Oh boy.
I mean, it's not really my fault if Iso has a different perspective of my play.
That's true, it's not your fault. But it could have relevance if you too have some sort of "connection".
So there are quite a few posts but not much going on in the way of interacting or questioning people's reads, motivations, etc. Not sure why Vaimes is playing this way but on Day One in Classic he at least tried to ask questions.
I know why I'm playing this way! It's not really game related, though, so we'll leave that be.
///
((Vaimes))
KoolKoal
Anaklusmos
Iso
Deaths_Vampire
Seppel
DoTArchon
TappingStones
??Megiddo??
??tomsloger??
---
CitricBase
Gentleman Johnny
Wheat_Grinder
Kayo115
Ghosting
??Matowar77??
---
??Cyan??
Sir Chris
Rhand
is about where I'm at. The Sir Chris read isn't like, a hard scumread. More like 'keep him on a short leash' or something. I just didn't feel like giving him his own special category.
Question marks mean I'm flip-flopping on a person. Townreading tom so strongly last game destroyed me spiritually.
Will elaborate on certain reads if asked.
Vote: Rhand
Vote: Cyan
third vote TBD
I actually don't have a read on GJ, nor do I understand the wagon on him. I think I was too worried about being biased, because when I started rereading I already knew there was a wagon on him. Not really satisfied with the quote Cyan cited, otherwise I haven't really seen a comprehensive 'this is why he's scum' post.
How would you feel about a Wheat, Tomsloger, Rhand defendant triad?
If you're able to explain a scum motivation for his posts, I'd be happy to hear what you have to say (if you still think he is scummy).
if you haven't reread him, I can't see how your view would change, since no new information would have been presented
Please respond to all of these if you can, more information = more stuff to analyze, and I'm curious to hear your responses.
maybe this part is nothing, but does he think DV needs to know these things? ghosting ostensibly wants answers to these questions, but in that second line hes overexplaining to the point of undercutting some of the answers he could have gotten.
but what really struck me about the post was how tailored it seemed to organically lead to a scum read. read it again and think about how DV could answer in order for ghosting to think hes town.
i think ghosting has decided to scum read DV, and this post was justification.
or prejustification. or whatever.
perhaps i should have waited a bit longer before posting about it, but someone keeps yelling at me for only having two scumreads. :/
If you're able to explain a scum motivation for his posts, I'd be happy to hear what you have to say (if you still think he is scummy).
if you haven't reread him, I can't see how your view would change, since no new information would have been presented
Please respond to all of these if you can, more information = more stuff to analyze, and I'm curious to hear your responses.
maybe this part is nothing, but does he think DV needs to know these things? ghosting ostensibly wants answers to these questions, but in that second line hes overexplaining to the point of undercutting some of the answers he could have gotten.
but what really struck me about the post was how tailored it seemed to organically lead to a scum read. read it again and think about how DV could answer in order for ghosting to think hes town.
i think ghosting has decided to scum read DV, and this post was justification.
or prejustification. or whatever.
perhaps i should have waited a bit longer before posting about it, but someone keeps yelling at me for only having two scumreads. :/
Tom you are accusing him of doing the same thing that you are famous for. Tunneling and constructing/reading to confirm your own beliefs.
I'm a bit jealous I haven't gotten the chance to play with Ghosting more often. i don't know if he's skilled or not, but he thinks about the game and puts in effort. he is miles ahead of some other players! It's refreshing.
ok, about that ghosting post.
when i say overexplainy, i mean these statements:maybe this part is nothing, but does he think DV needs to know these things? ghosting ostensibly wants answers to these questions, but in that second line hes overexplaining to the point of undercutting some of the answers he could have gotten.
He does need to know these, I'll explain why in case it wasn't apparent.
1) I want him to explain what he personally thinks Cyan's scum motivation in his posts would be. I'm not the first player to request this of someone this game, and it's a very reasonable question. By not asking it, there's no guarantee I'd get that insight otherwise.
2) This is a polite way of saying that if he didn't reread (like he said he would), I expect an explanation for the change in view, if there happens to be one
3) Not sure if you meant to include the last one, but I'm literally just saying a pretty typical "Please respond, thanks," that's non-aggressive and simply there as a closing statement. It'd feel weird to just address a bunch of points and not say bye or some other equivalent.
but what really struck me about the post was how tailored it seemed to organically lead to a scum read. read it again and think about how DV could answer in order for ghosting to think hes town.
i think ghosting has decided to scum read DV, and this post was justification.
or prejustification. or whatever.
Let's assume D_V is town. If he is, and he answers those questions, it should only make it more clear he is town. As is, I've noticed some abnormal behaviours that piqued my interest. Assuming he's able to explain them in a town manner, that's great. I question players to clarify, which helps construct my opinion of them, as well as ensures players are keeping up with their promises/not behaving abnormally and it going unnoticed.
perhaps i should have waited a bit longer before posting about it, but someone keeps yelling at me for only having two scumreads. :/
ok, about that ghosting post.
when i say overexplainy, i mean these statements:maybe this part is nothing, but does he think DV needs to know these things? ghosting ostensibly wants answers to these questions, but in that second line hes overexplaining to the point of undercutting some of the answers he could have gotten.
but what really struck me about the post was how tailored it seemed to organically lead to a scum read. read it again and think about how DV could answer in order for ghosting to think hes town.
i think ghosting has decided to scum read DV, and this post was justification.
or prejustification. or whatever.
perhaps i should have waited a bit longer before posting about it, but someone keeps yelling at me for only having two scumreads. :/
Don't worry about only having two scum reads. For this early on, two is a good number. Worry about solidifying your reads and continuing to play at a pace comfortable to you.
tom: I haven't noticed anything definitive from you yet.
cyan: We have 3 votes at a time now that can't be doubled up. When we pick a defendant, we lose a vote. So we always have as many votes as defendants left to choose. Probably just so we can easily pick multiple defendants at once if that's what we want to do.
seppel: Someone already asked, but why did you unvote GJ?
[quote from="Seppel »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/677880-ace-attorney-mafia-investigation-1-unlimited?comment=465"]Posts are out of order because mobile. [quote from="TappingStones »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/677880-ace-attorney-mafia-investigation-1-unlimited?comment=461"][quote from="tomsloger »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/677880-ace-attorney-mafia-investigation-1-unlimited?comment=460"][quote from="TappingStones »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/677880-ace-attorney-mafia-investigation-1-unlimited?comment=459"]
By the way, you following me voting Wheat, makes it seem pretty fake that you don't like where I'm headed.
There are multiple ways to go about this statement.
You and wheat are scum: You're attempting to discredit me because you're scared at how right it am.
You are scum and wheat is town: I'll look really bad after a wheat lynch.
You are town and wheat is scum: I should unvote you and ignore you because of how you're being such a detriment to our team.
You are town and wheat is town: We're all screwed since none of us know what we're doing.
In order of likeliness, 3 > 2 > 1 > 4.
So Unvote TS, vote KK
I'll assess my votes in a moment. I've seen wheat say "Welcome to the mind of the grinder" as scum.
If you want reasons I've probably posted them. Most reads are because I've stopped reading what people are saying and I've started reading the voice behind the words.
No sorting because mobile.
1. Megiddo - Town
2. Rhand - Unknown
3. Matowar77 - Lean Scum
4. D_V - Town
5. DoTArchon - Scum
6. Sir Chris - Unknown
7. Vaimes - Town
8. Kayo115/Necarg - Lean Scum (yes really)
9. tomsloger - Town
10. Ghosting - Lean Town
11. CitricBase - Lean Town
12. KoolKoal - Lean Scum
13. Seppel - Lean Seppel
14. TappingStones - Lean Town
15. Gentleman Johnny - Lean Scum
16. Anaklusmos - Town
17. Cyan - Lean Town
18. Iso - Unknown
19. Wheat_Grinder - Lean Scum
6 scumreads, 9 townreads, 3 unknowns. Not bad for D1.
[quote from="KoolKoal »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/677880-ace-attorney-mafia-investigation-1-unlimited?comment=480"]tom: I haven't noticed anything definitive from you yet.
cyan: We have 3 votes at a time now that can't be doubled up. When we pick a defendant, we lose a vote. So we always have as many votes as defendants left to choose. Probably just so we can easily pick multiple defendants at once if that's what we want to do.
seppel: Someone already asked, but why did you unvote GJ?
[quote from="Seppel »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/677880-ace-attorney-mafia-investigation-1-unlimited?comment=465"]Posts are out of order because mobile. [quote from="TappingStones »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/677880-ace-attorney-mafia-investigation-1-unlimited?comment=461"][quote from="tomsloger »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/677880-ace-attorney-mafia-investigation-1-unlimited?comment=460"]There are multiple ways to go about this statement.
You and wheat are scum: You're attempting to discredit me because you're scared at how right it am.
You are scum and wheat is town: I'll look really bad after a wheat lynch.
You are town and wheat is scum: I should unvote you and ignore you because of how you're being such a detriment to our team.
You are town and wheat is town: We're all screwed since none of us know what we're doing.
In order of likeliness, 3 > 2 > 1 > 4.
So Unvote TS, vote KK
I'll assess my votes in a moment. I've seen wheat say "Welcome to the mind of the grinder" as scum.
I don't understand your reasoning on number 3. If I have caught on to Wheat being scum and I am town then that is a good thing. Why are you saying it's negative. Put me on ignore for voting and making a case against the scum??
Your case against wheat is the only good thing you've done all game. Everything else has been awful.
The game is still new. Instead of focusing so much on the things you consider mistakes why aren't you focusing on the fact that the Wheat case is good? I mean, it isn't exactly easy to find EVERY scum on day one. Seems like you're trying to talk down to me for no reason.
@Ts: I know that feeling. Cyan is now claiming I'm scum for three in a row. I havenothing left to do but laugh. Laugh at the fact he can't even get me to a guilty, laugh at the people still on my wagon, and laugh at the one true way to play mafia, apparently that I don't fit in. The case on me, I'd laugh if it weren't so pathetic:
This is a deliberate misrepresentation of what actually happened. In the Invitational, I went back and forth about whether or not GJ was scum. Here is the last post that I made on the subject:
Quote from Cyan from Invitational re: GJ »
And let's talk about GJ some more. GJ is sitting here touting himself as a master scum player. Who actually does that WHILE THEY ARE SCUM? Nobody. You know what people do while they are scum? Downplay their capabilities. Because that is smart. Because you know what townies do when you tell them 'I'm a great scum player?' They react *exactly like Sir Chris did*. This ***** isn't rocket science.
And don't act high and mighty with me. If you're town this game, you deserve to get lynched. You've been given 7,000 opportunities to be a contributing member of the town and play a positive town game. You've failed 7,001 times. You got run up legitimately and forced to claim on DAY 1. And of course, you declined to answer my question about the last time you were forced to claim on Day 1 as town. But I know a time recently you were forced to claim on Day 1 in general, which was CT3. Granted, we bussed the ***** out of you that game, but it doesn't matter. It still took 4 townies to come along, and one of them(Iso) to get the ball rolling. Anyway, I digress somewhat. Your play has been miserable. I'm happy to continue this discussion with you post-game, where we can bring in plenty of other voices, and I will firmly stand my ground. At no point EVER have you tried to promote the town agenda. I've already said this so many times so far, that I don't think it needs to be repeated.
And GJ was not 'already caught'. He could have sat around in the background and just went along with the Seppel lynch that was literally a foregone conclusion as of yesterday. If he and Seppel are scumbuddies, he could have found a way to aggressively push that lynch, instead of randomly deciding that it was a super great idea to start pushing your lynch out of nowhere.
Like I said. If you are town, the only scum team that makes sense for GJ to be a part of is GJ/Proph, and that can be explored later. But it just doesn't make sense for you to be town. If you are fine. But you have no one but yourself to blame for your lynch. Period. I've made some questionable lynches happen in the past. I feel bad for getting on the ZDS wagon toward the end of Day 1. I didn't feel great about it, but the deadline was incoming, blahblah. I don't feel bad about your lynch. You brought it on yourself. Repeatedly.
And it's not 'random people'. I've looked at every single person in this game and had varying stances on ALL OF THEM. I've even had times when I thought you were town for brief moments. But you just keep changing my mind. You just continue to act like scum, over and over and over.
This is me(in the Invi) coming to the conclusion that GJ is *not* scum.
And he's right that I called him scum in Stargate, but it was a pretty short lived moment.
He is trumping up those moments to try and diminish my suspicion of him here. This is a scummy thing to do. And I've already gone over how ridiculous his claim is. Please freaking arrest him already. It's pretty clear that Mato could easily be scum, and WITH GJ at that, so we can send him to trial too.
@Ts: I know that feeling. Cyan is now claiming I'm scum for three in a row. I havenothing left to do but laugh. Laugh at the fact he can't even get me to a guilty, laugh at the people still on my wagon, and laugh at the one true way to play mafia, apparently that I don't fit in. The case on me, I'd laugh if it weren't so pathetic:
This is a deliberate misrepresentation of what actually happened. In the Invitational, I went back and forth about whether or not GJ was scum. Here is the last post that I made on the subject:
Quote from Cyan from Invitational re: GJ »
And let's talk about GJ some more. GJ is sitting here touting himself as a master scum player. Who actually does that WHILE THEY ARE SCUM? Nobody. You know what people do while they are scum? Downplay their capabilities. Because that is smart. Because you know what townies do when you tell them 'I'm a great scum player?' They react *exactly like Sir Chris did*. This ***** isn't rocket science.
And don't act high and mighty with me. If you're town this game, you deserve to get lynched. You've been given 7,000 opportunities to be a contributing member of the town and play a positive town game. You've failed 7,001 times. You got run up legitimately and forced to claim on DAY 1. And of course, you declined to answer my question about the last time you were forced to claim on Day 1 as town. But I know a time recently you were forced to claim on Day 1 in general, which was CT3. Granted, we bussed the ***** out of you that game, but it doesn't matter. It still took 4 townies to come along, and one of them(Iso) to get the ball rolling. Anyway, I digress somewhat. Your play has been miserable. I'm happy to continue this discussion with you post-game, where we can bring in plenty of other voices, and I will firmly stand my ground. At no point EVER have you tried to promote the town agenda. I've already said this so many times so far, that I don't think it needs to be repeated.
And GJ was not 'already caught'. He could have sat around in the background and just went along with the Seppel lynch that was literally a foregone conclusion as of yesterday. If he and Seppel are scumbuddies, he could have found a way to aggressively push that lynch, instead of randomly deciding that it was a super great idea to start pushing your lynch out of nowhere.
Like I said. If you are town, the only scum team that makes sense for GJ to be a part of is GJ/Proph, and that can be explored later. But it just doesn't make sense for you to be town. If you are fine. But you have no one but yourself to blame for your lynch. Period. I've made some questionable lynches happen in the past. I feel bad for getting on the ZDS wagon toward the end of Day 1. I didn't feel great about it, but the deadline was incoming, blahblah. I don't feel bad about your lynch. You brought it on yourself. Repeatedly.
And it's not 'random people'. I've looked at every single person in this game and had varying stances on ALL OF THEM. I've even had times when I thought you were town for brief moments. But you just keep changing my mind. You just continue to act like scum, over and over and over.
This is me(in the Invi) coming to the conclusion that GJ is *not* scum.
And he's right that I called him scum in Stargate, but it was a pretty short lived moment.
He is trumping up those moments to try and diminish my suspicion of him here. This is a scummy thing to do. And I've already gone over how ridiculous his claim is. Please freaking arrest him already. It's pretty clear that Mato could easily be scum, and WITH GJ at that, so we can send him to trial too.
GJ said he is a master scum player? Shrugs...we caught him easily enough based on behavior in Classic but meh...
@Cyan-How about Wheat and Tom? Now those are fellas I'd love to see SC and Iso rangle with in this game! I would put Wheat at 70% scum and Tom around 60%.
my free time, while significant, is quite intermittent.
but what is a post count analysis? do you just mean a list of post counts? because everyone can just see that if they want.
He is trumping up those moments to try and diminish my suspicion of him here. This is a scummy thing to do.
i dont actually thinks thats scummy. it seems natural to remember those moments more.
i mean, look at tapping thinking about me. what he remembers is that at some point in all of our games together, i have called him scum. and he apparently completely forgot that i came to the right conclusion eventually.
i mean, i dont quite relate to this because my first couple of games pretty much everyone called me scum. but my strongest memories of stargate were when people were sure i was town.
its much more notable when people are wrong about you, and that sticks.
GJ's claim is still garbage and i still think hes scum, but that wasnt a tell
This is a deliberate misrepresentation of what actually happened. In the Invitational, I went back and forth about whether or not GJ was scum. Here is the last post that I made on the subject:
I am almost positive you were tilting yourself in a position to turn on me, had Tare not hammered Azrael, so no, what I said was true.
And he's right that I called him scum in Stargate, but it was a pretty short lived moment.
To your small credit, you were reading my predecessor as scum. But I wouldn't say it was a short minute, there were simply too many scum around. I also think you had SC caught, but like me, were simply waiting to see if it resolved itself. However, the premise is still the same: You somehow every game we have played together in recent somehow came to the conclusion that I was scum.
Quote from TS »
GJ said he is a master scum player? Shrugs...we caught him easily enough based on behavior in Classic but meh...
I don't consider PoE lynched day 5-6 to really be considered "caught easily" but sure. I was too busy being salty about the identical kills, and for whatever reason, didn't understand Zio's ability was PERMANENT. #yessalt.
Quote from Seppel »
Why do you have a scumread on Seppel?
His misrep about me he still hasn't answered, his lurkish attitude, and his terrible (even for him) voting track. Like come on: 0 post ghosting? Having three votes, but moving his lynch vote off me rather than ghosting?
No, you are MY bottom. Good morning, ****cub.
Ugh, it was NOT a good morning.
The answer is post 129, in which he asks the right questions and also makes decent observations. I also just looked at the rest of his posts which I couldn't remember off-hand, and I see the same from pretty much all of his other posts.
That is still an incredibly immature read to be putting a strong town read (if you don't use lean town/scum, I'll amend this statement). It is also polar opposite of Seppel, and I don't recall you challenging that read.
Quote from tom »
GJ's claim is still garbage and i still think hes scum, but that wasnt a tell
Come on Cyan, tom thinks I am scum too, and even he thinks your going after the wrong tree...Wait a minute.
@Tom: 1) What's your opinion of Cyan?
2) Does the mod revealing my chat at the beginning of the next day change your stance at all? I am literally saying Proph (or atog) will confirm my ability.
@GJ: I use my vote for maximum effectiveness. And I have three votes, which is absolutely awesome. And what misrep are you talking about? The whole thing where you wrote a sentence that implies that you think DoTA is scum, then turn around to say you don't think he's scum, and now you STILL somehow don't think he's scum? You're insane.
@TS: You asked a question so I answered it. I'm not trying to talk down to you.
Why does it strike nobody else as weird that TS posts a whole big iso on WG, but doesn't actually vote him at the end? Except its not that he forgot, because he put the HOS at the end, so he remembered to something WG. And then an hour later, claims he forgot to vote WG, and then votes him with almost nothing else happening? Again, if he did nothing at the end of the iso, I could buy forgetting. However, HOS-ing him, then voting an hour later and claiming you forgot? No, you waited to vote until you saw feedback, or that was your thought when you posted the PBPA until you realized that was really scummy, so you tried to pass it off like you forgot to vote WG.
Cyan doesn't strike me as scum, he is consistent and can rationally explain his actions.
@Tom: 1) What's your opinion of Cyan?
2) Does the mod revealing my chat at the beginning of the next day change your stance at all? I am literally saying Proph (or atog) will confirm my ability.
i think cyan is town, but meh. i recently read an old scum game of his that really impressed/scared me.
and to be clear, ive never heard of an ability like the one youve claimed. it sounds somewhat useless but plausible.
my problem is that it doesnt go at all with your claimed character
but if you do have it, does that imply that youre town in some way? sure, honest claims are a (minor) town point, but that role in particular could certainly go either way. it sounds like an extremely ineffective investigative role as town or a mediocre tool for sowing dissent as scum.
right now, based on you asking this question, im sort of assuming you claimed your real ability and the name from your falseclaim. or one of your buddy's names. or something.
you see, i think your lack of knowledge hurt you here. asking questions totally goes with cop in your mind.
but not in ace attorney. the cops dont ask questions. thats the lawyers' job. cops are there to leak information and be questioned.
yeah, this is flavorgaming. but its just so heinous that if youre telling the truth ill be really disappointed with proph and atog.
especially when mikiko is right there for that role and makes a ton of sense
@GJ: I use my vote for maximum effectiveness. And I have three votes, which is absolutely awesome. And what misrep are you talking about? The whole thing where you wrote a sentence that implies that you think DoTA is scum, then turn around to say you don't think he's scum, and now you STILL somehow don't think he's scum? You're insane.
How the **** does my sentence imply I was reading dota AT ALL?! You misreped, you got caught. Your pattern is garbage and YOU AREN'T EVEN VOTING ME, DESPITE STATING A LEANING SCUM READ. Like seriously, who of your other 5 "lean scum" reads do you think is a better use of one of your 3 votes?
Quote where I implied a dota scum read. That's all I have been asking. Quote my exact post where I imply dota is scum. Because he has been a null read from the get go, and I don't know what's happening in the chat, so he is still null.
Quote from tom »
my problem is that it doesnt go at all with your claimed character
*large sigh.
right now, based on you asking this question, im sort of assuming you claimed your real ability and the name from your falseclaim. or one of your buddy's names. or something.
you see, i think your lack of knowledge hurt you here. asking questions totally goes with cop in your mind.
but not in ace attorney. the cops dont ask questions. thats the lawyers' job. cops are there to leak information and be questioned.
I could have told you that, even never playing the game. I swore I mentioned my flavor was the mod revealing it was "leaking" the chat. But eh, w.e Flavor gaming is actually straight up worse than mod gaming.
yeah, this is flavorgaming. but its just so heinous that if youre telling the truth ill be really disappointed with proph and atog.
especially when mikiko is right there for that role and makes a ton of sense
Did I just wonder into a Denny's, because this post was a grand slam.
Unvote: TappingStones
I'm curious, tom: do you think if/when TappingStones rolls mafia in a game you're both in, that he's /not/ going to keep scumreading you?
pretty baller move if he didnt though.
remove 'he totally wants [tom] to be mafia'
what else is towny
@Vaimes- Is it normal for you to not scum hunt and just pick at others opinions? Like, I haven't seen you making any cases. Just asking little busy work questions about other people's ideas.
@Tom-Serious question. Was this a misrep or just an error on your part?
yes
I am very passive and derive most of my reads simply from asking/clarifying others' opinions, noting them, and (usually) presenting them later when I feel it's relevant to a change in a read or something
I made some cases in a couple of games on this site but, as said, those are the exceptions to my usual style
I'm actually not as against this as some others. But I do think you could do some ISOs and give us some reads on players. There is actually quite a bit of content already.
Why do you have a scumread on Seppel?
No, you are MY bottom. Good morning, ****cub.
You did ask, but you made it sound like you were mostly asking about Seppel. Since I answered that, I'll answer about Dota.
The answer is post 129, in which he asks the right questions and also makes decent observations. I also just looked at the rest of his posts which I couldn't remember off-hand, and I see the same from pretty much all of his other posts.
[/quote]
so when are you making the goddamn case
like christ you are posting like a madman but keep saying you have no time for it
Is there something wrong with you? I have said twice now that when I have time for the long post it will come. Why are you not hounding all the people who are barely playing the game.
Stop acting like a child please. "Mommy are we there yet? Are we there yet?"
towntapping is not conventionally townie. but he is consistent.
the better question is "what else is tappingstonesy?" and the answer is "basically everything" yes, this was an intentional misrep. thats clearly the only explanation.
idk how long ago you started promising a post about wheat, but it seems longer the more times you mention it without doing it.
(for the record, i just checked and it was 41 hours ago.)
i also looked back at your vaimes case. the thing you say is "particularly alarming" was based on something iso said, not vaimes. the rest is just vaimes vaimesing around and being pleasant.
like, you could be right about vaimes. but that wasnt proof of anything.
if i may get referential for a moment, youre grasping at macaws.
The first post of any significance is a naked scum read on GJ. It's directed towards Iso. It's not clear why Wheat gave no reasoning behind this. Others have been criticized in this very game for not showing any work or a single explanation for this kind of read.
GJ's post doesn't imply this at all and it's quite early for Wheat to be suggesting that this is some kind of scum read. Equally easy would be for me to say "Hey look! Iso picked a jury team with SC and other strong players to blend in. Any set-up suggested can be interpreted for WIFOM purposes and I don't like that people are trying to crucify someone so hard for essentially no reason. Besides, GJ wouldn't have "free reign" on that proposed jury.
What is the point here? GJ knows Vaimes and you don't. He gave you a reason and because you don't know Vaimes that means his reason is invalid? How is YOUR lack of knowledge something that he has to solve? That's actually something for you to figure out by skimming previous Vaimes games.
This one is directed at Iso. Again, the way you are asking this doesn't come across like you really care about the answer. Considering your reaction to GJ telling you about why he picked Vaimes I don't see why an Iso answer should be more useful.
I can see that = p
I want to know more about this. I've reread the Sir Chris posts up till this post. There's nothing there. He talks about looking out a window. That's it. Buddying with a strong player? Being lazy? What is this?
You are eager to figure out alignments? How is that true based on your play? You town cleared Chris with zero data.
The part about wanting to know about Vaimes is also a falsehood. If you were eager to know about Vaimes you would have already asked to see some relevant games from him. Others have already asked for your relevant games and you dug them up. Asking Iso his opinion of Vaimes AFTER he's already suggested him (along with GJ) is just trying to ride along with Iso.
As you well know, Sir Chris is very hard to read as either alignment. I've found him to be playful and carefree and scum and town. it isn't a tell. This reeks of backpedaling. You have to do better than this or else it looks like a slip.
SC rightly catches onto Wheat's mistake. Wheat tries to say he has a town tell on SC and then changes the subject to something non-game related.
There is no wagon. What are you talking about? I found Iso over-stepping with the Vaimes non-sense. Even Vaimes admitted he has no idea what Iso is going on about. To be fair I referenced my two previous games with Vaimes that have no such "analytical Vaimes" and Iso said those games are outliers (perhaps). My questioning here is fair and reasonable. Your push against me is hasty as was your push against GJ and your town read of SC.
Again, there was never a wagon. There was Citrus posting his idea and me adding to it and asking based on my games with Vaimes why the weird statement from Iso. Iso acknowledged that my games with Vaimes DON'T show the qualities that he is giving to Vaimes. This should be enough for you to get where I'm going.
Person A hears that person B has a behavior pattern of which person A has not witnessed.
Person A goes back and reads the previous games and then asks person C why he made the statement.
Person C admits that based on Person A's experience he knows why I feel this way about Person B.
Please show your work on the statement that "the case was shown to be bunk". Because "the case" was actually acknowledged by the accused as showing merit.
You are making SC sound like a terrible player and we all know this to be untrue. SC has shown many times that he can have fun and joke around as scum. Even more so than this. He's been pretty tame so far.
This part is total scum writing.
My rping doesn't feel genuine? Explain this. Show in detail which parts aren't genuine. All they consist of are lead-ins to some posts. And I enjoy doing them. Explain why you think I don't want to do them? I have many more to come as people start dying and the game progresses. I also don't feel like I have to at all. I could stop at any moment and no one would even reference them again. I wouldn't think twice about stopping the RP. I'm in no way bound to do it the whole game if it becomes a chore.
It's just such a fake thing for you to say. I can't imagine anyone from a town mindset ever thinking about this. It's just...gross.
HOS: Wheat Grinder
I will support most lynch groups that include Wheat as I think SC and Iso are going to see he's scum right away and then we will be in sweet shape for Day two.
All your cases are about people playing poorly (in your mind at least)
You aren't showing any scum motivation whatsoever. This is now common to your cases on me, vaimes, and wheat.
Like, I see what you're saying, or at least what I think you're trying to say. And I appreciate the work you're clearly putting in. But it hasn't been convincing in the least.
If it's obvious to you why scum would be more likely to do/say these things, please explain it. Because as far as i can tell, these are just meaningless isos.
I don't think you read what I wrote. I clearly explained the scum mindset. The SC part is very obvious. His hasty jumps on me and GJ feel too forced. His retreats are nervous at best.
I can't see why you would be so dismissive. Like, what have you actually done to pursue scum this game?
I agree that wheat is wrong to have town cleared chris so early. I even agree that hes incorrectly scum reading you for *****ty reasons.
Tell me why this makes wheat scum rather than silly
Ok, so who is scum Tom?
Wheat has had the scummiest posts. Next is you and then Vaimes. What's a man to do?
Nah I'm talking about my American passengers.
This evening I have no time to continue the reading. Our drop off point tomorrow has changed and i need to rework my city tour.
Additionally, how are you feeling about Wheat? Three days ago you said you initially assumed he was scum, but have to reread him. Did you end up rereading him? If not, I have to assume you still think he is scum (if you haven't reread him, I can't see how your view would change, since no new information would have been presented)? If you did reread, how did that affect your view?
Also, initially, you suspected WG was scum, but within a couple of posts voted Cyan. Was your scumread on Cyan stronger than your scumread on WG? I have to assume so since you never voted Wheat at all. If this is the case, I'm curious how such a strong read ended up with you unvoting him. If it's not the case, I'd need a reason for you voting Cyan but not Wheat.
One other thing, you dismissed the case on GJ as stupid, but didn't let us know why. You immediately followed that up (in the same post) with: I need to reread GJ. Why do you need to reread him if the case is obviously stupid?
Please respond to all of these if you can, more information = more stuff to analyze, and I'm curious to hear your responses.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Investigation ~ Cornered
[6] Gentleman Johnny - Cyan, tomsloger, Wheat_Grinder, Rhand, Anaklusmos, Megiddo
[3] TappingStones - Wheat_Grinder, Seppel, Anaklusmos
[3] Vaimes - D_V, TappingStones, Matowar77
[3] Wheat_Grinder - KoolKoal, TappingStones, Seppel
[2] Matowar77 - tomsloger, Seppel
[1] Cyan - Vaimes
[1] KoolKoal - Wheat_Grinder
[1] Rhand - Vaimes
[1] Seppel - Gentleman Johnny
[1] tomsloger - TappingStones
[1] CitricBase - Matowar77
Unused Votes - Matowar77 (1), Anaklusmos (1), tomsloger(1), Vaimes(1), D_V (2), Gentleman Johnny (2), Cyan (2), Rhand (2), KoolKoal (2), Megiddo (2), Kayo115 (3), Ghosting (3), CitricBase (3)
With 16 on the case, it's 9 votes to arrest.
CitricBase is V/LA through Monday, March 21st.
Vaimes is V/LA until the evening of Tuesday, March 22nd.
Kayo115 has requested replacement.
Deadline is Wednesday, March 30th.
Previous: 1.01, 1.02, 1.03, 1.04, 1.05, 1.06
vote ghosting
that was way overexplainy
And reads more like a setup than actual questions
Can you clarify what you mean by "overexplainy"? I'm assuming you're referencing the various follow-up questions I included in my queries, which are references to D_V's play and highlight the reason I'm asking the question? If that's the case, are you saying you'd prefer I ask less questions, and therefore receive less information in turn? If you think a player is behaving abnormally or in a suspicious manner, would you not be wanting them to be as thorough with their responses as possible? When you watch a presidential debate, do the narrators simply say, "Do you support Wall Street?", or do they say, "You say you don't support Wall Street, yet I see you voted for this bill. Was your vote for this bill for reasons unclear to the casual observer, or is it an indication that you do in fact support Wall Street.", etc. That might be a horrible comparison, but essentially, I'm saying that there's zero reason to not be thorough and provide follow-up questions, support, etc.
If you'd like a simplified version that further demonstrates the simplicity behind my questions, here you are:
1) What is your current opinion of Cyan?
+ You unvoted him recently, does that mean your opinion changed?
+ I think he's town, what makes you think he's scum?
2) What is your current opinion of Wheat?
+You thought he was scum, but now say you need to reread him. Following up on if he actually did what he said he would. If a player says they're going to reread another player, and that they thought that player is scum, it's pretty important to make sure these interactions aren't ignored.
3) Why do you need to reread a case that you claim is obviously stupid?
As you can see, there's really no complexity here. I don't intend to cut down my posts and ensure they're tl;dr ready, because everything I'm saying, I'm saying for a reason. You get a lot more quality out of the content you ask if you put a little extra time into your investigative processes.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Also tom, you said that my post #473 "was more of the ghosting [you] expected" in post #475. Seeing as post #572 is very similarly formatted, why did the former make you feel better about me, and the latter make you feel worse?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Here we go
I don't always give reasoning behind my reads, especially on the first two pages.
I have several issues with this so I've bolded them all. In order:
1. Yes, they do.
2. Too early? At 24 posts everyone's been allowed RVS and there's usually meat by then (and in this case, there wasn't RVS so that means there was extra meat).
3. I suppose you could say that, but the tone doesn't really back it up. Then again, I'm ***** at reading Iso.
4. Even if you were right and I had no reason (which is false), I tend to like to do exactly that - it goes hand-in-hand with not giving reasoning; make a man sweat even just a little and you can taste if he's a liar.
5. Yes, and he was unhappy with that. That's the basis of my reasoning - how can you say that it doesn't imply it when you agree with the basis?
You mean Iso, rather than GJ. My objective was to figure out why Iso evaluated Vaimes so high, because Iso is not someone who gives out that level of respect that quickly to new folks, so I see it as weird. Always, always, ALWAYS jump on weird.
Following up on a question that wasn't satisfactorily answered means I don't care about it?
And again, it was all to Iso in the first place, not to GJ.
I'm not lazy yet, thanks.
When I saw Chris' looking out the window thing I immediately thought to myself, "Yep, that's Chris". No other RP/storytelling bit that has happened this whole game has made me feel that way.
Yes, I'm eager. It's very true based on my play where I now have decent reads on oh 8-10 people. I cleared him with reasoning that makes perfect sense to me - you're new, so get used to hearing this - WELCOME TO THE MIND OF THE GRINDER
It's also not a falsehood. Hearing about Vaimes from Iso is completely different information than hearing it from Vaimes. I didn't want the info from Vaimes, that wouldn't have been helpful - the information from Iso would have been very helpful.
No, it implies that he's scum because if he was town he would have phrased it differently.
It's like how a human wouldn't say "Hello, fellow humans", but an alien pretending to be a human might.
As I well know, eh???
I had a hard time grasping Chris' mindset until one day I found out he was, on some level, a weeb (I mean no offense, Chris, I'm one too). I don't understand how you can call it backpedaling when I've doubled down on this all game.
And the point isn't that he's playful, it's that he's GENUINELY playful. There is a MASSIVE difference.
Oh ***** I said Chris was a weeb there too.
And yes, I did move on to non-game related. The timing wasn't good, but James Spader is my favorite actor and I couldn't help myself.
So get trapped in semantics then - You saw someone else push on Iso and Vaimes, and you pushed too, even though Citric's reasoning was bunk ("Man, Iso sure talks about Vaimes a lot..." no ***** when I'm trying to press Iso for info on Vaimes).
I was calling it bunk because you barned Citric. I don't know what you're talking about here but your barn of Citric was awful and THAT's what I called bunk.
You seem to be under the delusion that just because a player is good doesn't mean you can't gain insight on them.
I thought about this. I started typing, then erased it because it wasn't right. I went to the bathroom, and I urinated while pondering this. The only answer I have is: Explain to me the concept of blue.
To me, it feels forced. It feels...off. And if I could point exactly to where, I would. But I can't, because I can't explain the concept of blue. And I don't mean "certain wavelengths of light produce the color perceived as blue", I mean "but why do we perceive it as blue instead of something else entirely"?
---
Your case mostly boils down to "I don't understand it, so it must be wrong". Normally, that's the sort of case that I expect from town. However, you're pretty clever and I think you hit on it as a pretty good vehicle with which to push me. So in the end I still think you're scum.
Really? I actually quite like Ghosting's posts here.
My point of view is that Ghosting was giving context to the questions in order to get better answers - Explain to me why that point of view is wrong.
I just looked at this player list. I'm going to ******* love this game.
In other news, I mostly understand this game's mechanics and will read this game sometime this week. Stay tuned.
Check out my Newborder Peasant Cube here! http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/37467
True Name Mafia (Win),Clan Contest IX Mafia (Win), Bravely Default Mafia (Loss), BOTAS (loss), BfV (Loss), Ace Attourney (loss)
Rules Advisor before they were eradicated
Welcome Necarg!
How would you feel about a Wheat, Tomsloger, Rhand defendant triad?
when i say overexplainy, i mean these statements: maybe this part is nothing, but does he think DV needs to know these things? ghosting ostensibly wants answers to these questions, but in that second line hes overexplaining to the point of undercutting some of the answers he could have gotten.
but what really struck me about the post was how tailored it seemed to organically lead to a scum read. read it again and think about how DV could answer in order for ghosting to think hes town.
i think ghosting has decided to scum read DV, and this post was justification.
or prejustification. or whatever.
perhaps i should have waited a bit longer before posting about it, but someone keeps yelling at me for only having two scumreads. :/
Tom you are accusing him of doing the same thing that you are famous for. Tunneling and constructing/reading to confirm your own beliefs.
I'm a bit jealous I haven't gotten the chance to play with Ghosting more often. i don't know if he's skilled or not, but he thinks about the game and puts in effort. he is miles ahead of some other players! It's refreshing.
He does need to know these, I'll explain why in case it wasn't apparent.
1) I want him to explain what he personally thinks Cyan's scum motivation in his posts would be. I'm not the first player to request this of someone this game, and it's a very reasonable question. By not asking it, there's no guarantee I'd get that insight otherwise.
2) This is a polite way of saying that if he didn't reread (like he said he would), I expect an explanation for the change in view, if there happens to be one
3) Not sure if you meant to include the last one, but I'm literally just saying a pretty typical "Please respond, thanks," that's non-aggressive and simply there as a closing statement. It'd feel weird to just address a bunch of points and not say bye or some other equivalent.
Let's assume D_V is town. If he is, and he answers those questions, it should only make it more clear he is town. As is, I've noticed some abnormal behaviours that piqued my interest. Assuming he's able to explain them in a town manner, that's great. I question players to clarify, which helps construct my opinion of them, as well as ensures players are keeping up with their promises/not behaving abnormally and it going unnoticed.
Don't worry about only having two scum reads. For this early on, two is a good number. Worry about solidifying your reads and continuing to play at a pace comfortable to you.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
You and wheat are scum: You're attempting to discredit me because you're scared at how right it am.
You are scum and wheat is town: I'll look really bad after a wheat lynch.
You are town and wheat is scum: I should unvote you and ignore you because of how you're being such a detriment to our team.
You are town and wheat is town: We're all screwed since none of us know what we're doing.
In order of likeliness, 3 > 2 > 1 > 4.
So Unvote TS, vote KK
I'll assess my votes in a moment. I've seen wheat say "Welcome to the mind of the grinder" as scum.
No sorting because mobile.
1. Megiddo - Town
2. Rhand - Unknown
3. Matowar77 - Lean Scum
4. D_V - Town
5. DoTArchon - Scum
6. Sir Chris - Unknown
7. Vaimes - Town
8. Kayo115/Necarg - Lean Scum (yes really)
9. tomsloger - Town
10. Ghosting - Lean Town
11. CitricBase - Lean Town
12. KoolKoal - Lean Scum
13. Seppel - Lean Seppel
14. TappingStones - Lean Town
15. Gentleman Johnny - Lean Scum
16. Anaklusmos - Town
17. Cyan - Lean Town
18. Iso - Unknown
19. Wheat_Grinder - Lean Scum
6 scumreads, 9 townreads, 3 unknowns. Not bad for D1.
I don't understand your reasoning on number 3. If I have caught on to Wheat being scum and I am town then that is a good thing. Why are you saying it's negative. Put me on ignore for voting and making a case against the scum??
The game is still new. Instead of focusing so much on the things you consider mistakes why aren't you focusing on the fact that the Wheat case is good? I mean, it isn't exactly easy to find EVERY scum on day one. Seems like you're trying to talk down to me for no reason.
How about it old sport?
This is a deliberate misrepresentation of what actually happened. In the Invitational, I went back and forth about whether or not GJ was scum. Here is the last post that I made on the subject:
This is me(in the Invi) coming to the conclusion that GJ is *not* scum.
And he's right that I called him scum in Stargate, but it was a pretty short lived moment.
He is trumping up those moments to try and diminish my suspicion of him here. This is a scummy thing to do. And I've already gone over how ridiculous his claim is. Please freaking arrest him already. It's pretty clear that Mato could easily be scum, and WITH GJ at that, so we can send him to trial too.
GJ said he is a master scum player? Shrugs...we caught him easily enough based on behavior in Classic but meh...
@Cyan-How about Wheat and Tom? Now those are fellas I'd love to see SC and Iso rangle with in this game! I would put Wheat at 70% scum and Tom around 60%.
but what is a post count analysis? do you just mean a list of post counts? because everyone can just see that if they want.
i mean, look at tapping thinking about me. what he remembers is that at some point in all of our games together, i have called him scum. and he apparently completely forgot that i came to the right conclusion eventually.
i mean, i dont quite relate to this because my first couple of games pretty much everyone called me scum. but my strongest memories of stargate were when people were sure i was town.
its much more notable when people are wrong about you, and that sticks.
GJ's claim is still garbage and i still think hes scum, but that wasnt a tell
I am almost positive you were tilting yourself in a position to turn on me, had Tare not hammered Azrael, so no, what I said was true.
To your small credit, you were reading my predecessor as scum. But I wouldn't say it was a short minute, there were simply too many scum around. I also think you had SC caught, but like me, were simply waiting to see if it resolved itself. However, the premise is still the same: You somehow every game we have played together in recent somehow came to the conclusion that I was scum.
I don't consider PoE lynched day 5-6 to really be considered "caught easily" but sure. I was too busy being salty about the identical kills, and for whatever reason, didn't understand Zio's ability was PERMANENT. #yessalt.
His misrep about me he still hasn't answered, his lurkish attitude, and his terrible (even for him) voting track. Like come on: 0 post ghosting? Having three votes, but moving his lynch vote off me rather than ghosting?
Ugh, it was NOT a good morning.
That is still an incredibly immature read to be putting a strong town read (if you don't use lean town/scum, I'll amend this statement). It is also polar opposite of Seppel, and I don't recall you challenging that read.
Come on Cyan, tom thinks I am scum too, and even he thinks your going after the wrong tree...Wait a minute.
@Tom: 1) What's your opinion of Cyan?
2) Does the mod revealing my chat at the beginning of the next day change your stance at all? I am literally saying Proph (or atog) will confirm my ability.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
@TS: You asked a question so I answered it. I'm not trying to talk down to you.
Why does it strike nobody else as weird that TS posts a whole big iso on WG, but doesn't actually vote him at the end? Except its not that he forgot, because he put the HOS at the end, so he remembered to something WG. And then an hour later, claims he forgot to vote WG, and then votes him with almost nothing else happening? Again, if he did nothing at the end of the iso, I could buy forgetting. However, HOS-ing him, then voting an hour later and claiming you forgot? No, you waited to vote until you saw feedback, or that was your thought when you posted the PBPA until you realized that was really scummy, so you tried to pass it off like you forgot to vote WG.
Cyan doesn't strike me as scum, he is consistent and can rationally explain his actions.
and to be clear, ive never heard of an ability like the one youve claimed. it sounds somewhat useless but plausible.
my problem is that it doesnt go at all with your claimed character
but if you do have it, does that imply that youre town in some way? sure, honest claims are a (minor) town point, but that role in particular could certainly go either way. it sounds like an extremely ineffective investigative role as town or a mediocre tool for sowing dissent as scum.
right now, based on you asking this question, im sort of assuming you claimed your real ability and the name from your falseclaim. or one of your buddy's names. or something.
you see, i think your lack of knowledge hurt you here. asking questions totally goes with cop in your mind.
but not in ace attorney. the cops dont ask questions. thats the lawyers' job. cops are there to leak information and be questioned.
yeah, this is flavorgaming. but its just so heinous that if youre telling the truth ill be really disappointed with proph and atog.
especially when mikiko is right there for that role and makes a ton of sense
How the **** does my sentence imply I was reading dota AT ALL?! You misreped, you got caught. Your pattern is garbage and YOU AREN'T EVEN VOTING ME, DESPITE STATING A LEANING SCUM READ. Like seriously, who of your other 5 "lean scum" reads do you think is a better use of one of your 3 votes?
Quote where I implied a dota scum read. That's all I have been asking. Quote my exact post where I imply dota is scum. Because he has been a null read from the get go, and I don't know what's happening in the chat, so he is still null.
*large sigh.
I could have told you that, even never playing the game. I swore I mentioned my flavor was the mod revealing it was "leaking" the chat. But eh, w.e Flavor gaming is actually straight up worse than mod gaming.
Did I just wonder into a Denny's, because this post was a grand slam.
The GJ way path to no lynching: