Proph, Chris said he thought ZDS was probably town earlier than that. Been traveling but will be home tonight.
I checked and all I found that resembled a defense of ZDS was this:
Quote from Chris »
I feel as if ZDS is scum he is choosing an uncommon tactic of appealing to someone in hot water for reasons that are unclear to me. He started off by not liking me but in the middle of my worst moments he switched directions and then followed that up with voting Wheat. If Wheat is scum I see no way ZDS is his partner based on the fact that he kind of gave me a breather when he could have easily buried me alive there with no suspicion. He had laid the groundwork that he didn't like me much, no one would have thought anything of it...instead he takes a risky stance on me and then pounds into Wheat. That would be a very rare scum play to pull that off. He and I are seeing the game pretty similarly (We share 3 town reads as well as Wheat) I think he has fallen a bit too in love with vagueness at times, granted, but I don't think that's alignment determining. He could be playing me, because boy has he been a welcome sight, but I don't see the long term point for him.
I checked where he defended ZDS in Avant-Garde and the situations/context feel so different. In Avant-Garde, he defended ZDS when ZDS was at.. L-2 or L-1. This post was made when ZDS had only one vote on his wagon.
@Az: I'll also add a point for GJ in that I don't think he would be ballsy enough to hammer as scum when you basically flagged the vote over there. That struck me as a ill-mannered but ultimately townie move.
Quote from GJ »
I am predicting the scum team in some cluster of Azreal, Cythare, Chris, Wheat. Iso flipping means if a PR is lying, I think its probably Az, but like someone already said, it will resolve itself.
This is basically where I am at with regards to the game right now barring reread/vote analysis. I'm looking into Seppel/Cythare/Az/Chris/Wheat since the two flips we had thus far basically did not change my gamestate view (well, Iso flipping town was a bit surprising, since I thought he made some real bad posts Yesterday).
Wheat responded to my point adequately but the point about not pushing me (which he failed to respond to) still stands.
@Cyan: Wheat already responded to the massclaim point here, but you should vote him anyways.
Quote from Wheat »
@Chris (and by extension Proph): No, I don't think the massclaim helped. I think it would have helped if the game wasn't so vanilla, but as it stands I can't say that much was gained from it.
@Cythare: Since Iso died, who do you think is scum and why?
This sonds like a great time for you to extrapolate on your assessment(yesterday) that the mass-claim had 'solved' the game, WG. Because from where I am sitting, it was an unmitigated ******* disaster. The scum gained everything from it, and the town gained **** all nothing. So please explain what you want. Because the more I think about that statement, the more I think you were just talking out of your ass.
I'm not really happy about it not doing *****-all either so I don't really want you to tell me something I already ******* know. And especially don't pretend that I ever said the game was solved because I never did. And ESPECIALLY don't give me that abuse when you went ahead with the massclaim too. Please tell me how I was supposed to realize that it was a bad idea?
though it would gain us at least something if people would just realize that none of the PRs are scum, because almost everyone who has been a PR has been under fire which is *really stupid* because still no one has given a single believable motivation for any of the claimed PRs to have fake-claimed besides Iso. The power argument is also kinda silly because town redirector probably nerfs the town more than the scum.
If you thought the mass-claim was going to be this bad, why weren't you trying to help me fight it, Cyan?
I didn't think it was going to be this bad at the time, it literally played out in the worst possible way. A few claims were out(including theoretical vig and protective role), so I piled mine on, and then there was NOTHING else. Had I known that, obviously I would have said absolutely nothing.
WG's testiness here feels like a town reaction from him, honestly, even if I don't like how he is trying to hand-wave his previous posts toward the mass-claim.
Alright, since I have some time, here are some vote counts (that are actually organized right since Ged apparently organizes votals by player name):
First big wagon of the game (which is on me):
(5) Prophylaxis - Seppel, Azrael, ZeDorkSlipeur, Cyan, Iso (Rhand, Wheat)
(3) Gentleman Johnny - Gentleman Johnny, Sir Chris, Wheat_Grinder
(2) Sir Chris - DCIII, Prophylaxis
(1) Cythare - Rhand
(1) Iso - Cythare
(1) Cyan - Seppel
Seppel unvoted and Rhand/Wheat also voiced support for my wagon.
Reading this, it feels like either one of Seppel or Azrael has to be scum. This is actually a pretty ripe wagon for analysis since I have a townread on Cyan, and ZDS/Iso flipped and were bringing up the latter on my wagon. I'll focus on both on reread since these rationales for voting are both pretty bad:
Quote from Az »
I feel strongly that the GJ wagon is infested with silly townies and Proph is scum trying to get us to chase them.
I'm with you, Seppel.
vote Proph
Don't understand why anyone is reading GJ's attitude as scummy.
Quote from Seppel »
This is the next wagon I want to pursue:
Unvote, vote Proph
Wheat reminded me that Proph is scum.
The Gentleman Johnny wagon also got pretty big but I'm kind of discounting it, since he only got up to four votes and one of the votes was a self-vote.
Next up is the Az wagon.
(5) Azrael - Cyan, Sir Chris, Iso, Gentleman Johnny, DCIII
(4) Prophylaxis - Azrael, ZeDorkSlipeur, Rhand, Wheat_Grinder
(1) Cyan - Seppel
(1) Iso - Cythare
(1) Sir Chris - Prophylaxis
Worth noting that this wagon sprang up incredibly quickly, which means that analysis of this wagon might be a bit spotty since it's mostly regarding who was online at the time.
But yeah, this wagon really makes me want to look at Az. Most of the wagon are townreads outside of Chris, and reading back Az just pretty much claimed one-shot vig and then later on moved his vote back to Wheat. His vote was pretty useless most of the day (singular vote on me). I think if Az flips town it has to be Chris, though, unless I'm totally off somewhere with my townreads (yet another thing I should logic out at some point, since I'm still convinced that there's a super cunning scum hiding in my townreads).
Next, we get the Chris wagon.
(5) Sir Chris - Prophylaxis, Gentleman Johnny, Cyan, Rhand, Wheat_Grinder
(2) Iso - Cythare, Seppel
(2) Wheat_Grinder - Sir Chris, ZeDorkSlipeur
(1) Prophylaxis - Azrael
(1) ZeDorkSlipeur - DCIII
(1) Cyan - Iso
This actually makes me super convinced on Wheat. We have two solid town reads (GJ, Cyan) and the bodyguard (Rhand) voting Chris and it's very rare to see a five man completely town wagon. This is without flips which gives me some pause but for those of you who aren't voting Wheat this is a reason why you should.
Finally we get to ZDS and the final wagon:
(7) ZeDorkSlipeur - DCIII, Rhand, Seppel, Cythare, Cyan, Wheat_Grinder, Gentleman Johnny
(4) Wheat_Grinder - Sir Chris, ZeDorkSlipeur, Azrael, Prophylaxis
(1) DCIII - Iso
Virtually 100% chance that there's scum on this wagon. I will eat crow if there isn't scum in (Seppel, Cythare, Wheat).
Obviously I think this is another point against Wheat, but I have a feeling that this wagon will yield more info as the Days go by. This wagon was pushed somewhat awkwardly, and I wouldn't be surprised if two scum are in fact on the wagon.
The thing that really bothers me about this wagon was that DCIII was the major instigator of the wagon and everyone basically drank crazy juice and barned him, so it's difficult to distinguish between apathetic!town and barning scum.
Thoughts on this votal analysis? Main conclusions that I got from this are:
1) Wheat should be lynched with the passion of a thousand suns, because bad placements on two wagons
2) I want to look at Az again. Obviously if he proves his vig shot he's cleared, but I just want to isolate that and focus solely on his behavior. The main games I remember of him are True Name (where he tried to play scummy because doc claim) and Gatecrash (where he was firing on all cylinders and while ultimately wrong I townread him due to.. conviction?)
I do want to supplement this with a reread; we'll see. But this is my thoughts on the game right now, coming from the "vote analysis" perspective.
I'd be pretty happy to vote Seppel right now honestly. The way that he voted Iso felt so, so opportunist. It felt more like 'I'm scum that thinks I can get away with this because I'm Seppel' than it did 'I'm doing this because I'm town Seppel and really think Iso is scum'.
The same applies to his voting me today and his insinuation that Rhand is scum.
In fact, this is the best I've felt about anything all day. Vote Seppel
I want to lynch Wheat first. I've been tricked by Wheat's "townie" reactions in other games (FF, True Name) and while Seppel's been weird (ignoring behavior and solely modgaming) I'm not willing to compromise after what happened D1.
Sorry, but upon reading Seppel's posts, I'm happy with my vote. His posts just sound so hollow when you read them. Like his initial vote on ZDS.(Post 430).
Also, shortly, before that, Seppel names a 3 person scum team of..WG, Cythare, Proph(at least I think that is what he was saying in the post in question, he was kind of nebulous about it). Not really sure what to make of that, considering that Proph(and I think someone else?) seem to be now hovering around the idea of a 3 person scum team of Cythare, WG, Seppel?)
Unrelated to all of this.
@Sir Chris: Do you think I am town this game? If so, why?
Alright, since I have some time, here are some vote counts (that are actually organized right since Ged apparently organizes votals by player name):
For reference, I organize vote counts by order of voting. So the player who first voted for a player is listed first / is leftmost and the person to most recently vote them is last / rightmost.
Unless there is something wrong with the python script I made to create votecounts, which is always possible.
Alright, since I have some time, here are some vote counts (that are actually organized right since Ged apparently organizes votals by player name):
For reference, I organize vote counts by order of voting. So the player who first voted for a player is listed first / is leftmost and the person to most recently vote them is last / rightmost.
Unless there is something wrong with the python script I made to create votecounts, which is always possible.
@Sir Chris: Do you think I am town this game? If so, why?
I have seen you be anti-town three times now Cyan. In the first game I happened to be scum and you were SK and we both did our best ragin' cagin' town impression on one another when the game opened. I had absolutely no experience with you then and after that early clash we settled down with one another just fine. I think your SK play there was very close to your town play as I have come to know it in the games I have read, and it was a job well done on your part.
In the two scum games I have witnessed from you I have noticed something about how you operate: you're very deft. This is an observation I used to great affect as scum in AG. You can't help but position yourself in a good place to gain the trust of town. To slyly manipulate people. It takes a turning of the chessboard to see it in game, an odd glance at the gamestate to be like "wait a second!" but once noticed it is easy to attack you for it. You just... don't have the same level of righteousness about you as scum. That murderous genuine confidence. It's not a part of you, Cyan. You're a little too slick. A little too measured. You don't have that "to hell with you" button that I came to know in Wu Tang.
So it came to me as I was cursing you in my head some time during day one that... this reminded me so much of early game wu tang. Of the town games of yours I have researched. It was like seeing THE OLD STONE COLD stomping around, and not the calculating mastermind who is seen as an elite scum player.
Now, I did have some paranoia after Predator and how far removed from your normal fiery play you were there that maybe scum cyan did a remix on me and I was about to get rope a doped, but then you claimed cop and if you're scum it means we have no investigative roles and that just kind of capped off the love train.
Oh, this reminds me: now that vanillaville or whatever it is over I would like to apologize for a 'my bad' moment. I referenced the absolute slaughter I laid down upon scum Iso's soul in that game as why I thought he was town here. I wasn't thinking and I immediately regretted it. That was why I said I couldn't explain my read, because I realized I had goofed badly.
Speaking of completed games! Seppel after the complete trainwreck that was you in that game as town are you still going to persist that you know how to setup meta correctly? You still going to have that swagger? Because I don't think you should!
So Cyan, you voted Seppel. That's cool and all, but why didn't you vote Wheat? What is, in your opinion, the biggest thing he has done, or circumstance around him, that makes you think he is less likely to be scum than anyone else? Me personally I am mulling over his scum meta. I don't know if it'll stay my hand but I am trying to figure it out.
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It's the two people that I'm suspecting, so them attempting to discredit my analysis is natural.
@Az: Mostly looking for patterns such as a cluster of townreads on a wagon, or a scumread on a wagon with a bunch of townies.
Latter point is why I want Wheat dead so badly - he's pretty much the lone scumread on the Chris wagon, which I think is filled with townies.
Cluster of townreads is why I want to look at your posts more.
Eh. Yeah alright. I guess Seppel can wait. Unvote, Vote Wheat
@Sir Chris: I'll never know what to make of you. I think I have too much respect for you, and I actually hate being town in games you are in, because I am never comfortable around you.
Well... that doesn't make me feel good. I'm sorry to hear that. While I am a competitor I don't like it when I make the game worse for others. It is why I made sure to reign in my emo rage when I realized I was being a bit of a douche.
I mean just do whatever you did in Predator and you'll be fine. Wait, I hope I wasn't the reason you replaced out <_<.
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It's not like that. You're not doing anything wrong. It's kind of like..I wouldn't want to play a poker game with you, because I'm pretty sure you would just consistently beat me. I don't like to play games against people that I feel are above my level, if that makes sense. It's not fun. You seem like a consummate professional and all of that, no worries.
There is also the fact that you have me totally figured out, as evidenced by, you know, that post you just wrote. Heh. I dislike that. But I've long since given up on trying to change the way I play. I've tried that in the past and it has never accomplished anything positive.
Unrelatedly, I will say that, regarding this statement:
So Cyan, you voted Seppel. That's cool and all, but why didn't you vote Wheat? What is, in your opinion, the biggest thing he has done, or circumstance around him, that makes you think he is less likely to be scum than anyone else? Me personally I am mulling over his scum meta. I don't know if it'll stay my hand but I am trying to figure it out.
This kind of sets my teeth on edge. If Wheat flips town..I'm coming for you.
I've been thinking about Az claiming roleblocked. If he is scum, mafia still needs a roleblocker vs cop + redirector. (bodyguard is no real threat. I'm still a townie that dies if I protect succesfully)
So either he is trueclaiming being roleblocked or mafia didn't roleblock N1 to give him the opportunity to claim that.
However... if he is SK with multiple kills, then claiming 1-shot vig is long-term suicide. Iso was our only "protection" against his kills though. (again, I still die)
Having a Neutral with only 1 kill would be weird in this flavorless setup.
So I think he's either mafia or town. As SK he will get lynched with that claim.
Well, that's a huge compliment coming from you Cyan. I don't think you're below me as a player though, just a bit tunnely as town. You remind me of a person who I played with named Spiral. Spiral had the great misfortune of losing to my scum game something like five times in a row, each time me just carving him up to be served and so for a good 5 years no matter what game we were in he would scream "Chris is scum, Chris is scum!" Sometimes he would be right, often wrong. I am not accusing you of such extremes, but your comments reminded me of how I kind of worm my way into people's heads sometimes.
Anyway I do admit I have a secondary purpose for how I have opened the day, which will become obvious as soon as I say it, but we need to hear from a few people more meaningfully before I dig in. I will say I really hope Wheat is scum, because I don't think anyone is going to believe that town chris swung that hard and missed after day 1 in vanilla and every day in predator <_<. The curse of being on a roll.
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I've been thinking about Az claiming roleblocked. If he is scum, mafia still needs a roleblocker vs cop + redirector. (bodyguard is no real threat. I'm still a townie that dies if I protect succesfully)
So either he is trueclaiming being roleblocked or mafia didn't roleblock N1 to give him the opportunity to claim that.
However... if he is SK with multiple kills, then claiming 1-shot vig is long-term suicide. Iso was our only "protection" against his kills though. (again, I still die)
Having a Neutral with only 1 kill would be weird in this flavorless setup.
So I think he's either mafia or town. As SK he will get lynched with that claim.
I am still a little loose about power structures in games. Would a one shot mafia vig/roleblocker two man team be balanced in a game of 12 vs a cop/bg/redirect?
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I've been thinking about Az claiming roleblocked. If he is scum, mafia still needs a roleblocker vs cop + redirector. (bodyguard is no real threat. I'm still a townie that dies if I protect succesfully)
So either he is trueclaiming being roleblocked or mafia didn't roleblock N1 to give him the opportunity to claim that.
However... if he is SK with multiple kills, then claiming 1-shot vig is long-term suicide. Iso was our only "protection" against his kills though. (again, I still die)
Having a Neutral with only 1 kill would be weird in this flavorless setup.
So I think he's either mafia or town. As SK he will get lynched with that claim.
To be fair, he originally claimed 'X shot Vig', and later ratified this to 1 shot, if memory serves. After I claimed 1-shot Cop. And it's a small game? Why can't he be an SK that only has a limited # of shots? This would require a smaller mafia team of course. It's probably not what is happening, but it's a possibility.
I know Ged really hates modgaming, so I suppose it is possible that he included 1-shot Vig, Bodyguard, 1-Shot Cop AND Redirector, with the scum team having Roleblocker + whatever? but it just feels..off.
I also recently got burned by someone claiming X shot Vig and turning out to be scum, so, you know. I am wary. And Az's behavior this game(well..yesterday, really. Today he has been mostly fine, to be fair) is unforgivably scummy.
@SC: Thanks, but my town game is kind of miserable these days. In my last 2 town games, I gave scum a pass and lynched town instead, for reasons that I'm still really not sure about. I'm not really sure what's going on with me, and honestly, it's part of why I'm not going to play mafia anymore. At first I thought it was because I was scum for 5 games straight or whatever, but I haven't been for the last few, and and I still just generally can't tell when someone is scum. And even in Predator, I had Annorax AND Wildfire dead to rights and just couldn't be bothered to pin them down. Plus you know, I was totally fooled by you AND Jobie in AG. Hell, I didn't even really think Kami was scum. Blah was a nightmare.
I'm not really sure what you're going on about in that second paragraph, heh.
Cyan on a scale of 1-10, and I promise this is going to be explained shortly, how likely do you think it is that Cythare is scum?
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It's weird that we're suddenly talking about Cythare..
But..6.5? I guess? I don't know what to make of him, other than he has seemed super useless. I looked at some of his other scum games, and he seemed more engaged in those honestly, but if I were Cythare in this game, I would be really lurky too. I would say that he and WG are the 2 people I think are currently most likely to be scum. With Seppel and AZ pretty close behind. I'm not willing to lynch Az today, though I am willing to lynch any of the other mentioned 3.
We're talking about Cythare because he is the only guy who hasn't posted anything at all today, he was the holdout. But now I am a bit amped so let's just have ourselves a ball.
Okay so time to solve the game on day 2 and just go home happy. I need my music. I NEED MY JAM.
Wheat is scum. Why is Wheat scum? Because Wheat is actually really clever. Like, insanely so. And I now understand his day one play entirely based off the angle I perceive him in. Scum Wheat is good, a few people have let me know this (none moreso than GJ, more on that later) and after reading True Name I came to believe it. He was sharp. If he had brought that level of scum play to this game I am sure town would have been in trouble. Except, it already was. I want everyone, if they care to at any rate, to go back when I first started poking Wheat. Everyone thought I was insane. Wheat is town, Wheat is town, blah blah. Wheat himself was like “READ TRUE NAME!” and being very annoyed at my persistence. I get it now. It's clever. Being undetected as scum is all about perception manipulation. To project an image town expects to see and to not have it falter. And you know what? It was working like a charm. Why? Everyone but me actually has experience with scum Wheat's good games I am guessing. In my ignorance I kind of screwed Wheat over. Of course in an all star game Wheat would bring his best game. He wouldn't be so lazy. Right? It's logic! Basically Wheat played a masterful game of WIFOM and I kind of just stumbled into it and screwed it all up. Because unfortunately for Wheat I believe this game is going to mark a trend of him not standing up well to Chris pressure. ZDS was my first partner in crime. He died for it. Az is my next partner in crime, he's under heavy suspicion. Are we seeing the pattern yet? Even as people start to nod along with me a bit here the detractors of Wheat are still finding suspicion. Perception. Manipulation.
Okay and Az is probably right, GJ is his scum buddy. First he makes sure to let me know that Wheat is a GREAT scum player. Almost as good as himself. He is Wheat's alibi to greatness. He knows Wheat's plan for this game and knows hyping up his scum game will reinforce Wheat's deception. Many of GJ's plays are also counter-intuitive for scum to make. He votes himself. He hypes up his scum game. He and Wheat voted back to back on a town lynch to hammer, scum would NEVER do that, right? It's so obviously a scummy thing! Why would they do that, we ask ourselves. So we say things like that. They are both smart, they know better. As DCIII pointed out (and I am leaning town on DCIII right now, so we'll keep this version of events going because if Az really named all 3 scum as vig shots yesterday that's amazing) GJ defended DCIII yesterday! What scum does that? What CRAZINESS is that!? But as I already mentioned, its a sum zero game. They knew he was blocked, it has no harm to scum and gets DCIII to talk about how scum wouldn't do that. Sorry DCIII not to be a jerk but we just got out of a game where you didn't want to lynch a werewolf because they were giving effort. Your criteria is just a bit of out whack. Tilt the chessboard you beautiful man and come to see my vision for the game, it's going to work.
Also let's just discuss this gem of a post:
When I was trying to figure out Iso, the only reason I could justify him brute forcing a massclaim if he was telling the truth, was so that he wouldn't accidentally redirect a PR towards him. Instead, he purposefully forces Cyan to target him. So forgive me if I am not super motivated in this game right now, as either Cyan is lying, which means Iso was lying as town about his plans to redirect, or Cyan is telling the truth and Iso gave the mafia a free roleblock. I don't like either outcome.
Proph's 778 makes me feel better about his read.
I am predicting the scum team in some cluster of Azreal, Cythare, Chris, Wheat. Iso flipping means if a PR is lying, I think its probably Az, but like someone already said, it will resolve itself.
Az, humor me. You got roleblocked (fine, fine). You are relatively insistent that one of me or WG is scum, why is your vote on neither one of us?
By the way, his only indication at all yesterday that Wheat was suspected by him is calling a few posts bleh. He gives no consideration why he has decided to put Wheat on the same level as me (who he went to war with yesterday) so easily. Just, you know. One of those four. Let's throw Wheat's name in there, looks good. At multiple points yesterday GJ had the chance to agree with me about Wheat, and at every turn he rebuffed me and attempted to BURY ME.
Az, Proph – Let's have no other reason other than they are helping me blat blat Wheat. Want more, ask for more.
Cyan – Read this page, Cop
Rhand – Bodyguard, Cyan's not alive if he doesn't exist.
DCIII – Just a lean because I don't think I've seen his scum game yet, but so far so good.
???
Seppel – Keeps going after town power, that boy needs to stop
Cythare – I don't remember a damn thing you've posted.
There.
Almost done.
##vote: Wheat
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Hey guys - I'm really sorry and I hope you know that I don't take this lightly, because I've never replaced out of a game, ever... but I'm "retiring" from mafia, effective immediately.
Some combination of taking things more seriously than I should/feeling like it's a chore to play rather than looking forward to doing so... and when your hobby is just putting you in a bad mood, especially when you're otherwise not, that's when you know it's time to hang up the keyboard. I seriously considered waiting it out til the end of this game, because the game was my idea, of all things, how much I was looking forward to playing in it, and because of how much I like and respect all of you - but I just don't have the energy to play catch up late at night after work every day (and certainly don't have the energy to keep trying to find time away from work to make posts like I'm doing right now). And this game, and you all, deserve much better than the state of mind/energy I am able to give right now.
I've really enjoyed and appreciated this community, the games and stimulating discussion, and am continually impressed by the savvy and intellect routinely on display. It's been a pleasure to be able to test my mettle with you and get to know you - please don't hesitate to reach out if you want to stay in touch.
/replace (I also hope you'll seriously consider asking Voxx to take this spot - there was a huge amount of support to write him in and he's a great player, certainly better than I am!)
This slot is Town.
FWIW - I have a lock town read on Rhand and pretty strong town reads on GJ, Cythare, Proph, and am leaning town on Seppel - I think it's most likely Wheat AND Chris, and then either Az or Cyan... probably Az... but I also have Cyan and Chris playing a distancing dance paranoia that probably isn't justified but is worth mentioning. I certainly think one of Az and Cyan is scum, because Rhand isn't... but, whoever take my spot can decide if they agree.
I wanted to say something yesterday that I couldn't and since vanillaville just ended now i can:
I just got out of a game where I was vanilla and no one else for some reason and so I ended up in that mindset for this game, except mostly everyone turned out vanilla here after all. That only made it worse.
@WG: So who do you actually think IS scum then? I assume that you are not serious about your vote on Proph. Because like..how can you be.
He feels super hollow and doesn't really care about the game. The only time he started following-up is when I called him out for not following-up. He asked a large amount of questions whose answer he doesn't care about before that point.
It's the two people that I'm suspecting, so them attempting to discredit my analysis is natural.
@Az: Mostly looking for patterns such as a cluster of townreads on a wagon, or a scumread on a wagon with a bunch of townies.
Latter point is why I want Wheat dead so badly - he's pretty much the lone scumread on the Chris wagon, which I think is filled with townies.
Cluster of townreads is why I want to look at your posts more.
*nods*
Understood. I reckoned that was what you were going to say.
There really isn't any persuasive logic behind seeing a cluster of town-reads, and surmising that the unknowns on the wagon must be scum, or vice versa. There's just no dependable reasons to assume that's the case. There are wagons comprised of nothing but townies all the time. It's slightly less likely to see a wagon where all of the scum are on board, as a matter of human behavior, but scum vary widely enough in their philosophies of pushing wagons against townies vs. staying off wagons that pretending a statistical analysis is meaningful well get you in hot water real fast.
Or give you a really nice excuse as scum to push a sketchy wagon. There's always that, too.
Please chime in at the private QT once this game is over, but this seems really abrupt coming from you. Playing with you over the past.. two years? has been a great pleasure, and I sincerely hope that you'll come back sooner or later.
When I was trying to figure out Iso, the only reason I could justify him brute forcing a massclaim if he was telling the truth, was so that he wouldn't accidentally redirect a PR towards him. Instead, he purposefully forces Cyan to target him. So forgive me if I am not super motivated in this game right now, as either Cyan is lying, which means Iso was lying as town about his plans to redirect, or Cyan is telling the truth and Iso gave the mafia a free roleblock. I don't like either outcome.
I'd be pretty happy to vote Seppel right now honestly. The way that he voted Iso felt so, so opportunist. It felt more like 'I'm scum that thinks I can get away with this because I'm Seppel' than it did 'I'm doing this because I'm town Seppel and really think Iso is scum'.
The same applies to his voting me today and his insinuation that Rhand is scum.
In fact, this is the best I've felt about anything all day. Vote Seppel
It's the two people that I'm suspecting, so them attempting to discredit my analysis is natural.
@Az: Mostly looking for patterns such as a cluster of townreads on a wagon, or a scumread on a wagon with a bunch of townies.
Latter point is why I want Wheat dead so badly - he's pretty much the lone scumread on the Chris wagon, which I think is filled with townies.
Cluster of townreads is why I want to look at your posts more.
Eh. Yeah alright. I guess Seppel can wait. Unvote, Vote Wheat
@Sir Chris: I'll never know what to make of you. I think I have too much respect for you, and I actually hate being town in games you are in, because I am never comfortable around you.
I will make a better post with my own computer, but I am willing to admit that most of my unwillingness to lynch Wheat comes from my dislike of Chris (in game of course). I did the same thing with Rhand in XKCD when I disliked Iso.
I am still not confirmed on my read with Chris, but I would be fine with a Wheat lynch today.
We shouldn't be voting Wheat so quickly that Cythare doesn't have time to post stuff. I think Wheat is at -2 now?
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I will make a better post with my own computer, but I am willing to admit that most of my unwillingness to lynch Wheat comes from my dislike of Chris (in game of course). I did the same thing with Rhand in XKCD when I disliked Iso.
I am still not confirmed on my read with Chris, but I would be fine with a Wheat lynch today.
I am curious if you are capable of acknowledging the convenience that since multiple people have managed to really dig their claws into Wheat now you go "oh yeah, I'll totally lynch that guy."
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I am curious if you are capable of acknowledging the convenience that I am quite aware of how I interacted with Wheat yesterday will make me look bad today if Wheat is lynched and flips scum.
I am curious if you are capable of acknowledging the convenience that I am quite aware of how I interacted with Wheat yesterday will make me look bad today if Wheat is lynched and flips scum.
@Seppel: What's the rush?
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I am curious if you are capable of acknowledging the convenience that I am quite aware of how I interacted with Wheat yesterday will make me look bad today if Wheat is lynched and flips scum.
@Seppel: What's the rush?
If you are town, why would you care if you look bad if you're helping to lynch scum?
One of these Two Is Probably Scum, I guess?
Seppel
Azrael
I don't have anything specific to point to in this group, since I've been mostly coasting. Seppel could maybe be scum - don't have a ton of experience here. Azrael is mostly based on how many others I think are townier. I'm still not seeing how Chris is scum. DCIII and Rhand are super town.
Looking Like Scum
Wheat Grinder - Mostly what Chris said.
Gentleman Johnny - I still dislike his early stuff with Iso. I said I hadn't tracked him much, which is still true, but his recent posts still are scummy.
I am curious if you are capable of acknowledging the convenience that I am quite aware of how I interacted with Wheat yesterday will make me look bad today if Wheat is lynched and flips scum.
@Seppel: What's the rush?
If you are town, why would you care if you look bad if you're helping to lynch scum?
I....don't?
I still dislike his early stuff with Iso. I said I hadn't tracked him much, which is still true, but his recent posts still are scummy.
I checked and all I found that resembled a defense of ZDS was this:
I checked where he defended ZDS in Avant-Garde and the situations/context feel so different. In Avant-Garde, he defended ZDS when ZDS was at.. L-2 or L-1. This post was made when ZDS had only one vote on his wagon.
@Az: I'll also add a point for GJ in that I don't think he would be ballsy enough to hammer as scum when you basically flagged the vote over there. That struck me as a ill-mannered but ultimately townie move.
This is basically where I am at with regards to the game right now barring reread/vote analysis. I'm looking into Seppel/Cythare/Az/Chris/Wheat since the two flips we had thus far basically did not change my gamestate view (well, Iso flipping town was a bit surprising, since I thought he made some real bad posts Yesterday).
Wheat responded to my point adequately but the point about not pushing me (which he failed to respond to) still stands.
@Cyan: Wheat already responded to the massclaim point here, but you should vote him anyways.
@Cythare: Since Iso died, who do you think is scum and why?
floor?
I'm not really happy about it not doing *****-all either so I don't really want you to tell me something I already ******* know. And especially don't pretend that I ever said the game was solved because I never did. And ESPECIALLY don't give me that abuse when you went ahead with the massclaim too. Please tell me how I was supposed to realize that it was a bad idea?
though it would gain us at least something if people would just realize that none of the PRs are scum, because almost everyone who has been a PR has been under fire which is *really stupid* because still no one has given a single believable motivation for any of the claimed PRs to have fake-claimed besides Iso. The power argument is also kinda silly because town redirector probably nerfs the town more than the scum.
Vote: Proph
are you happy now? i'll even leave it there until you are lynched.
I didn't think it was going to be this bad at the time, it literally played out in the worst possible way. A few claims were out(including theoretical vig and protective role), so I piled mine on, and then there was NOTHING else. Had I known that, obviously I would have said absolutely nothing.
WG's testiness here feels like a town reaction from him, honestly, even if I don't like how he is trying to hand-wave his previous posts toward the mass-claim.
First big wagon of the game (which is on me):
(5) Prophylaxis - Seppel, Azrael, ZeDorkSlipeur, Cyan, Iso (Rhand, Wheat)
(3) Gentleman Johnny - Gentleman Johnny, Sir Chris, Wheat_Grinder
(2) Sir Chris - DCIII, Prophylaxis
(1) Cythare - Rhand
(1) Iso - Cythare
(1) Cyan - Seppel
Seppel unvoted and Rhand/Wheat also voiced support for my wagon.
Reading this, it feels like either one of Seppel or Azrael has to be scum. This is actually a pretty ripe wagon for analysis since I have a townread on Cyan, and ZDS/Iso flipped and were bringing up the latter on my wagon. I'll focus on both on reread since these rationales for voting are both pretty bad:
The Gentleman Johnny wagon also got pretty big but I'm kind of discounting it, since he only got up to four votes and one of the votes was a self-vote.
Next up is the Az wagon.
(5) Azrael - Cyan, Sir Chris, Iso, Gentleman Johnny, DCIII
(4) Prophylaxis - Azrael, ZeDorkSlipeur, Rhand, Wheat_Grinder
(1) Cyan - Seppel
(1) Iso - Cythare
(1) Sir Chris - Prophylaxis
Worth noting that this wagon sprang up incredibly quickly, which means that analysis of this wagon might be a bit spotty since it's mostly regarding who was online at the time.
But yeah, this wagon really makes me want to look at Az. Most of the wagon are townreads outside of Chris, and reading back Az just pretty much claimed one-shot vig and then later on moved his vote back to Wheat. His vote was pretty useless most of the day (singular vote on me). I think if Az flips town it has to be Chris, though, unless I'm totally off somewhere with my townreads (yet another thing I should logic out at some point, since I'm still convinced that there's a super cunning scum hiding in my townreads).
Next, we get the Chris wagon.
(5) Sir Chris - Prophylaxis, Gentleman Johnny, Cyan, Rhand, Wheat_Grinder
(2) Iso - Cythare, Seppel
(2) Wheat_Grinder - Sir Chris, ZeDorkSlipeur
(1) Prophylaxis - Azrael
(1) ZeDorkSlipeur - DCIII
(1) Cyan - Iso
This actually makes me super convinced on Wheat. We have two solid town reads (GJ, Cyan) and the bodyguard (Rhand) voting Chris and it's very rare to see a five man completely town wagon. This is without flips which gives me some pause but for those of you who aren't voting Wheat this is a reason why you should.
Finally we get to ZDS and the final wagon:
(7) ZeDorkSlipeur - DCIII, Rhand, Seppel, Cythare, Cyan, Wheat_Grinder, Gentleman Johnny
(4) Wheat_Grinder - Sir Chris, ZeDorkSlipeur, Azrael, Prophylaxis
(1) DCIII - Iso
Virtually 100% chance that there's scum on this wagon. I will eat crow if there isn't scum in (Seppel, Cythare, Wheat).
Obviously I think this is another point against Wheat, but I have a feeling that this wagon will yield more info as the Days go by. This wagon was pushed somewhat awkwardly, and I wouldn't be surprised if two scum are in fact on the wagon.
The thing that really bothers me about this wagon was that DCIII was the major instigator of the wagon and everyone basically drank crazy juice and barned him, so it's difficult to distinguish between apathetic!town and barning scum.
Thoughts on this votal analysis? Main conclusions that I got from this are:
1) Wheat should be lynched with the passion of a thousand suns, because bad placements on two wagons
2) I want to look at Az again. Obviously if he proves his vig shot he's cleared, but I just want to isolate that and focus solely on his behavior. The main games I remember of him are True Name (where he tried to play scummy because doc claim) and Gatecrash (where he was firing on all cylinders and while ultimately wrong I townread him due to.. conviction?)
I do want to supplement this with a reread; we'll see. But this is my thoughts on the game right now, coming from the "vote analysis" perspective.
The same applies to his voting me today and his insinuation that Rhand is scum.
In fact, this is the best I've felt about anything all day. Vote Seppel
The arguments that Seppel is scum (from both Cyan and Proph) don't do anything for me. I'll pass.
Also, shortly, before that, Seppel names a 3 person scum team of..WG, Cythare, Proph(at least I think that is what he was saying in the post in question, he was kind of nebulous about it). Not really sure what to make of that, considering that Proph(and I think someone else?) seem to be now hovering around the idea of a 3 person scum team of Cythare, WG, Seppel?)
Unrelated to all of this.
@Sir Chris: Do you think I am town this game? If so, why?
For reference, I organize vote counts by order of voting. So the player who first voted for a player is listed first / is leftmost and the person to most recently vote them is last / rightmost.
Unless there is something wrong with the python script I made to create votecounts, which is always possible.
I am so confused right now.
@Ged: Unless I made an error with my vote tabulation then I think your Python script has some problems. It's not a huge problem, regardless.
This would explain..alot.
@Az: Mostly looking for patterns such as a cluster of townreads on a wagon, or a scumread on a wagon with a bunch of townies.
Latter point is why I want Wheat dead so badly - he's pretty much the lone scumread on the Chris wagon, which I think is filled with townies.
Cluster of townreads is why I want to look at your posts more.
I have seen you be anti-town three times now Cyan. In the first game I happened to be scum and you were SK and we both did our best ragin' cagin' town impression on one another when the game opened. I had absolutely no experience with you then and after that early clash we settled down with one another just fine. I think your SK play there was very close to your town play as I have come to know it in the games I have read, and it was a job well done on your part.
In the two scum games I have witnessed from you I have noticed something about how you operate: you're very deft. This is an observation I used to great affect as scum in AG. You can't help but position yourself in a good place to gain the trust of town. To slyly manipulate people. It takes a turning of the chessboard to see it in game, an odd glance at the gamestate to be like "wait a second!" but once noticed it is easy to attack you for it. You just... don't have the same level of righteousness about you as scum. That murderous genuine confidence. It's not a part of you, Cyan. You're a little too slick. A little too measured. You don't have that "to hell with you" button that I came to know in Wu Tang.
So it came to me as I was cursing you in my head some time during day one that... this reminded me so much of early game wu tang. Of the town games of yours I have researched. It was like seeing THE OLD STONE COLD stomping around, and not the calculating mastermind who is seen as an elite scum player.
Now, I did have some paranoia after Predator and how far removed from your normal fiery play you were there that maybe scum cyan did a remix on me and I was about to get rope a doped, but then you claimed cop and if you're scum it means we have no investigative roles and that just kind of capped off the love train.
Oh, this reminds me: now that vanillaville or whatever it is over I would like to apologize for a 'my bad' moment. I referenced the absolute slaughter I laid down upon scum Iso's soul in that game as why I thought he was town here. I wasn't thinking and I immediately regretted it. That was why I said I couldn't explain my read, because I realized I had goofed badly.
Speaking of completed games! Seppel after the complete trainwreck that was you in that game as town are you still going to persist that you know how to setup meta correctly? You still going to have that swagger? Because I don't think you should!
So Cyan, you voted Seppel. That's cool and all, but why didn't you vote Wheat? What is, in your opinion, the biggest thing he has done, or circumstance around him, that makes you think he is less likely to be scum than anyone else? Me personally I am mulling over his scum meta. I don't know if it'll stay my hand but I am trying to figure it out.
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Eh. Yeah alright. I guess Seppel can wait. Unvote, Vote Wheat
@Sir Chris: I'll never know what to make of you. I think I have too much respect for you, and I actually hate being town in games you are in, because I am never comfortable around you.
I mean just do whatever you did in Predator and you'll be fine. Wait, I hope I wasn't the reason you replaced out <_<.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
There is also the fact that you have me totally figured out, as evidenced by, you know, that post you just wrote. Heh. I dislike that. But I've long since given up on trying to change the way I play. I've tried that in the past and it has never accomplished anything positive.
Unrelatedly, I will say that, regarding this statement:
This kind of sets my teeth on edge. If Wheat flips town..I'm coming for you.
So either he is trueclaiming being roleblocked or mafia didn't roleblock N1 to give him the opportunity to claim that.
However... if he is SK with multiple kills, then claiming 1-shot vig is long-term suicide. Iso was our only "protection" against his kills though. (again, I still die)
Having a Neutral with only 1 kill would be weird in this flavorless setup.
So I think he's either mafia or town. As SK he will get lynched with that claim.
Anyway I do admit I have a secondary purpose for how I have opened the day, which will become obvious as soon as I say it, but we need to hear from a few people more meaningfully before I dig in. I will say I really hope Wheat is scum, because I don't think anyone is going to believe that town chris swung that hard and missed after day 1 in vanilla and every day in predator <_<. The curse of being on a roll.
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I am still a little loose about power structures in games. Would a one shot mafia vig/roleblocker two man team be balanced in a game of 12 vs a cop/bg/redirect?
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
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To be fair, he originally claimed 'X shot Vig', and later ratified this to 1 shot, if memory serves. After I claimed 1-shot Cop. And it's a small game? Why can't he be an SK that only has a limited # of shots? This would require a smaller mafia team of course. It's probably not what is happening, but it's a possibility.
I know Ged really hates modgaming, so I suppose it is possible that he included 1-shot Vig, Bodyguard, 1-Shot Cop AND Redirector, with the scum team having Roleblocker + whatever? but it just feels..off.
I also recently got burned by someone claiming X shot Vig and turning out to be scum, so, you know. I am wary. And Az's behavior this game(well..yesterday, really. Today he has been mostly fine, to be fair) is unforgivably scummy.
@SC: Thanks, but my town game is kind of miserable these days. In my last 2 town games, I gave scum a pass and lynched town instead, for reasons that I'm still really not sure about. I'm not really sure what's going on with me, and honestly, it's part of why I'm not going to play mafia anymore. At first I thought it was because I was scum for 5 games straight or whatever, but I haven't been for the last few, and and I still just generally can't tell when someone is scum. And even in Predator, I had Annorax AND Wildfire dead to rights and just couldn't be bothered to pin them down. Plus you know, I was totally fooled by you AND Jobie in AG. Hell, I didn't even really think Kami was scum. Blah was a nightmare.
I'm not really sure what you're going on about in that second paragraph, heh.
Cyan on a scale of 1-10, and I promise this is going to be explained shortly, how likely do you think it is that Cythare is scum?
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2015 - Best Overall Player
But..6.5? I guess? I don't know what to make of him, other than he has seemed super useless. I looked at some of his other scum games, and he seemed more engaged in those honestly, but if I were Cythare in this game, I would be really lurky too. I would say that he and WG are the 2 people I think are currently most likely to be scum. With Seppel and AZ pretty close behind. I'm not willing to lynch Az today, though I am willing to lynch any of the other mentioned 3.
We're talking about Cythare because he is the only guy who hasn't posted anything at all today, he was the holdout. But now I am a bit amped so let's just have ourselves a ball.
Okay so time to solve the game on day 2 and just go home happy. I need my music. I NEED MY JAM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYF7H_fpc-g
Wheat is scum. Why is Wheat scum? Because Wheat is actually really clever. Like, insanely so. And I now understand his day one play entirely based off the angle I perceive him in. Scum Wheat is good, a few people have let me know this (none moreso than GJ, more on that later) and after reading True Name I came to believe it. He was sharp. If he had brought that level of scum play to this game I am sure town would have been in trouble. Except, it already was. I want everyone, if they care to at any rate, to go back when I first started poking Wheat. Everyone thought I was insane. Wheat is town, Wheat is town, blah blah. Wheat himself was like “READ TRUE NAME!” and being very annoyed at my persistence. I get it now. It's clever. Being undetected as scum is all about perception manipulation. To project an image town expects to see and to not have it falter. And you know what? It was working like a charm. Why? Everyone but me actually has experience with scum Wheat's good games I am guessing. In my ignorance I kind of screwed Wheat over. Of course in an all star game Wheat would bring his best game. He wouldn't be so lazy. Right? It's logic! Basically Wheat played a masterful game of WIFOM and I kind of just stumbled into it and screwed it all up. Because unfortunately for Wheat I believe this game is going to mark a trend of him not standing up well to Chris pressure. ZDS was my first partner in crime. He died for it. Az is my next partner in crime, he's under heavy suspicion. Are we seeing the pattern yet? Even as people start to nod along with me a bit here the detractors of Wheat are still finding suspicion. Perception. Manipulation.
Okay and Az is probably right, GJ is his scum buddy. First he makes sure to let me know that Wheat is a GREAT scum player. Almost as good as himself. He is Wheat's alibi to greatness. He knows Wheat's plan for this game and knows hyping up his scum game will reinforce Wheat's deception. Many of GJ's plays are also counter-intuitive for scum to make. He votes himself. He hypes up his scum game. He and Wheat voted back to back on a town lynch to hammer, scum would NEVER do that, right? It's so obviously a scummy thing! Why would they do that, we ask ourselves. So we say things like that. They are both smart, they know better. As DCIII pointed out (and I am leaning town on DCIII right now, so we'll keep this version of events going because if Az really named all 3 scum as vig shots yesterday that's amazing) GJ defended DCIII yesterday! What scum does that? What CRAZINESS is that!? But as I already mentioned, its a sum zero game. They knew he was blocked, it has no harm to scum and gets DCIII to talk about how scum wouldn't do that. Sorry DCIII not to be a jerk but we just got out of a game where you didn't want to lynch a werewolf because they were giving effort. Your criteria is just a bit of out whack. Tilt the chessboard you beautiful man and come to see my vision for the game, it's going to work.
Also let's just discuss this gem of a post:
By the way, his only indication at all yesterday that Wheat was suspected by him is calling a few posts bleh. He gives no consideration why he has decided to put Wheat on the same level as me (who he went to war with yesterday) so easily. Just, you know. One of those four. Let's throw Wheat's name in there, looks good. At multiple points yesterday GJ had the chance to agree with me about Wheat, and at every turn he rebuffed me and attempted to BURY ME.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py1WDlaIr9A
Okay so that's 2 scum.
Town:
Az, Proph – Let's have no other reason other than they are helping me blat blat Wheat. Want more, ask for more.
Cyan – Read this page, Cop
Rhand – Bodyguard, Cyan's not alive if he doesn't exist.
DCIII – Just a lean because I don't think I've seen his scum game yet, but so far so good.
???
Seppel – Keeps going after town power, that boy needs to stop
Cythare – I don't remember a damn thing you've posted.
There.
Almost done.
##vote: Wheat
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2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
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2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Some combination of taking things more seriously than I should/feeling like it's a chore to play rather than looking forward to doing so... and when your hobby is just putting you in a bad mood, especially when you're otherwise not, that's when you know it's time to hang up the keyboard. I seriously considered waiting it out til the end of this game, because the game was my idea, of all things, how much I was looking forward to playing in it, and because of how much I like and respect all of you - but I just don't have the energy to play catch up late at night after work every day (and certainly don't have the energy to keep trying to find time away from work to make posts like I'm doing right now). And this game, and you all, deserve much better than the state of mind/energy I am able to give right now.
I've really enjoyed and appreciated this community, the games and stimulating discussion, and am continually impressed by the savvy and intellect routinely on display. It's been a pleasure to be able to test my mettle with you and get to know you - please don't hesitate to reach out if you want to stay in touch.
/replace (I also hope you'll seriously consider asking Voxx to take this spot - there was a huge amount of support to write him in and he's a great player, certainly better than I am!)
This slot is Town.
FWIW - I have a lock town read on Rhand and pretty strong town reads on GJ, Cythare, Proph, and am leaning town on Seppel - I think it's most likely Wheat AND Chris, and then either Az or Cyan... probably Az... but I also have Cyan and Chris playing a distancing dance paranoia that probably isn't justified but is worth mentioning. I certainly think one of Az and Cyan is scum, because Rhand isn't... but, whoever take my spot can decide if they agree.
P.S. Sorry I was so wrong about you, ZDS.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
I just got out of a game where I was vanilla and no one else for some reason and so I ended up in that mindset for this game, except mostly everyone turned out vanilla here after all. That only made it worse.
He feels super hollow and doesn't really care about the game. The only time he started following-up is when I called him out for not following-up. He asked a large amount of questions whose answer he doesn't care about before that point.
Yes, I actually do think he's scum.
I will never forget True Name; one of the most fun games I've ever been in and a lot of that thanks to you.
*nods*
Understood. I reckoned that was what you were going to say.
There really isn't any persuasive logic behind seeing a cluster of town-reads, and surmising that the unknowns on the wagon must be scum, or vice versa. There's just no dependable reasons to assume that's the case. There are wagons comprised of nothing but townies all the time. It's slightly less likely to see a wagon where all of the scum are on board, as a matter of human behavior, but scum vary widely enough in their philosophies of pushing wagons against townies vs. staying off wagons that pretending a statistical analysis is meaningful well get you in hot water real fast.
Or give you a really nice excuse as scum to push a sketchy wagon. There's always that, too.
Please chime in at the private QT once this game is over, but this seems really abrupt coming from you. Playing with you over the past.. two years? has been a great pleasure, and I sincerely hope that you'll come back sooner or later.
Chris convinced me.
I find myself scrolling past all of Proph's posts without reading them. /agreed
I have issue with Iso after this game is over. Don't really to defend myself. Maybe WG is scum after all. YOU reviewed Vanillaville? :/ Or they fired it into the vast unknown in hopes of hitting an unclaimed PR.
I am still not confirmed on my read with Chris, but I would be fine with a Wheat lynch today.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I would like your feedback on my paragraph about GJ. Does that perspective change your mind from your page 4 read?
I am curious if you are capable of acknowledging the convenience that since multiple people have managed to really dig their claws into Wheat now you go "oh yeah, I'll totally lynch that guy."
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
@Seppel: What's the rush?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Town
Rhand
DCIII's slot
Sir Chris
Probably Town
Cyan
Prophylaxis
One of these Two Is Probably Scum, I guess?
Seppel
Azrael
I don't have anything specific to point to in this group, since I've been mostly coasting. Seppel could maybe be scum - don't have a ton of experience here. Azrael is mostly based on how many others I think are townier. I'm still not seeing how Chris is scum. DCIII and Rhand are super town.
Looking Like Scum
Wheat Grinder - Mostly what Chris said.
Gentleman Johnny - I still dislike his early stuff with Iso. I said I hadn't tracked him much, which is still true, but his recent posts still are scummy.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
TOWN
DCIII
Sir Chris
I DON'T KNOW
Azrael
Cyan
Cythare
Gentleman Johnny
Prophylaxis
Rhand
SCUM
Wheat_Grinder
I....don't?
Which recent posts?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I don't think it's possible for a post to feel any less sincere than this one does. Ugh.