Oh, carry on, then. ^^ Getting people to look at the game is good, and I apologize if I offended you - I just needed you to put on the brakes for a moment to prevent you from driving this game off of a cliff.
I am not caught up but that is like the third time now Blue has used hyperbole to describe a dystopian game state for what I find to be reasonable suspicion of their motives.
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I notice you don't mention an alignment when you say that.
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See, I've played like... a lot of games with you at this point. I don't know if it is a staggering number or anything but it's a lot. And the more I play with people the more I get a sense for them, the more I refine in my mind what is essential to them. You can put on a wig and say Mister and Miss a lot, but it doesn't change the essence of your mafia soul. I have seen the relentless, brutal way you play the game of mafia. It stains your bones in its intensity. You... are not that same person here. Throw away the spectacle, and throw away the different phrasings and all I get is a very different person. You are defending yourself as a player, not as a member of town.
I do not like this at all.
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See this is actually part of my point. This ENTIRE GAME whenever I have brushed up against you are VERY reactionary to my words. Everyone else you brush off, you spin them around, but you just seem to have my words be very weighted and I think it is legitimate scum fear. That or you respect me way more than I give you credit for and you don't want me to murder you.
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Of the people in this game that I want to have on my side, I would place you somewhere in the top 3. But that's neither here nor there. What it's about is that when a lot of people are making noise, if the volumes are equal, people tend to either defer towards the more experienced player, or the player whose views align with their own. I think you feel like I should be questioning you, but I've already established a solid town read on you. There is no reason for me to push suspicion your way, as I do not see you acting scummy. Because I tend to use my townreads as sounding boards for my own reads and theories, it's important to me that we understand what each other is saying. You see it as a conflict of interest, but I see it as moving to the next step of the game. What I'm trying to do is to get us on the same page, because you're a valuable ally to have, and I'm sure you recall how we wrecked the scum in XKCD together. However, we were butting heads in that game. I feel that it's a much more intuitive process to have more people pushing my reads than fewer, and as much as you try to alienate me, it doesn't change my read of you. Perhaps the jokey nature of my self-inflating was lost in Blue's syntax, and that's why you're confused. I'm a humorous person. I like to have fun and make jokes. What's baffling me about all of this is why I have to explain it to you. Do you really not see that Iso is not BlueElectric in demeanor at all? And hell, even I'M not in-game Iso. Do you understand that, or is that where your supposed disconnect in my mindset is coming from?
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I think the disconnect here is, honestly, I have never had to deal with this sort of thing before in my long history of playing mafia. On my forum we didn't really do complete alternate personalities and accounts for the sake of a gimmick. The idea is very foreign to me, even as someone who writes for a living and knows all too well about sinking into character. It is very strange to have to deal with a persona of a person.
Although one thing that I find striking... is how you misunderstand me in this process. See I don't think it is a conflict of interest, I think that just because you have a strong town read on me doesn't mean I need return the sentiment if I don't feel that way. I have had many scum over my career try to get onto my good side by declaring me town. I am very, very cautious about declaring excellent players town unless I think I have a very solid read on them. Very solid. Because as you should know when I declare people town I do so with conviction. When I say someone is town in my mind they are town unless they get scanned otherwise. It is how I am able to, most of the time, effectively narrow games because of my willingness to dismiss my paranoia once I reach a certain point. It is, in my opinion, one of my greatest strengths.
I... don't know where your strong game is right now. Like I don't THINK my problem with you is your choice of hair color, for example. I think it is something else, disguised under that wig that makes it both harder to figure out and easier for you to disguise if you are scum. I cannot put my finger on it, but if it was simply a matter of persona I don't think I would have much of a problem. I parsed through Scarlet easily enough, for example.
Regardless of persona, I don't feel as if you're crisp this game so far. Or maybe I am the one who isn't crisp and just doesn't realize it, to be fair. I am not trying to 'alienate' you, I am trying my best to declare you town but I can't figure out how yet. As I do everyone, if you haven't caught on yet. That's just how I play most of the time. I vote in the hopes that someone will show their town self so that I may add them to my collection. Thus far you haven't given me reason to unvote. (note: haven't read several posts still, I am just bantering with you from work atm)
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Level with me here, for a moment, please, Mister DC. You are hypothesizing that the bad guys are Mister Id/Miss Blue/Miss Scarlet, correct? Does that mean, then, that you believe that Miss Blue, as a bad guy, would go for a dual soft bus but then push someone else that nobody was convinced on instead of pushing the hard bus when there was sufficient data on the table to lynch both Mister Id AND Miss Scarlet? I know that you know I can read the flow of the game very well - so what on earth am I trying to gain, here, as a bad guy? If anything, as a bad guy, my vote would be parked on Mister Id right now.
That being said, I think I will concede the point on Mister Necarg's play differences to you. I believe my incorrecolletion (see what I did, there? ^^) was a result of reading the end parts of True Name Mafia with Mister Necarg's alignment in mind. While I believe it is entirely possible for him to have become more relaxed while wearing an evil goatee since he succeeded at first with it, I do believe you are correct that he feels a lot more relaxed, here, in retrospect.
Unvote
I will wait for Mister Sep's claim before I vote for Mister Id, though I would also be in favor of lynching Miss Scarlet. ^^
There are a lot of things that could be going on here if you're scum, and I think the first paragraph over simplifies it a bit. The short answer is, yes, if you are scum, I don't think you were in a good place to jump on Id regardless of his alignment as you'd already voted Necarg and then Id sprung up as the counter to you. Better probably to try to look convicted with your read (prior to that aspect of the read on you being in focus). Your soft bus of Wheat early is more than reasonable and your stance later is a result of me asking you about it (and, actually, your earlier focus on Wheat seemed off the radar entirely when you were considering that I was scum). Maybe you'd have bused Id hard there if he was scum, maybe you'd think that was too obvious, though. Maybe you thought the Id wagon was more likely to take anyway and he's Town, then you stay away from it entirely. But, if anything, that makes me question my read of Id more than my read on you.
I'd rather wait to talk about Wheat in depth until after he gets a chance to respond; there are parts of your case where I can see a possible town mindset for why Wheat's doing what he's doing and I'm not really interested in feeding him answers. I will say that his scum game in True Name and in Inflammable was a lot more image-conscious than his game here; one of the things I noticed about Wheat's scum game way back then is that he is pretty proactive about making plays to look good and True Name reaffirms that pretty solidly. His game here doesn't look like he's doing that.
I do miss the Wheat from earlier in the game, though.
I know that Hunt gets mislynched on this site before, but it seems like he gets mislynched for stupid reasons. He has a lot of conviction when he argues points, he has good depth in his thought process when he presents it and usually has weird theories about a ton of things happening in the game; making one rushed and lame catchup post and doing literally nothing else is not my expectation of town!Huntzilla. Rhand and Bur doing absolutely nothing reinforces this.
I don't think Id/Iso/Iso2 is the scumteam; the Iso behavior towards Id makes that unlikely in my mind. I was also okay with how he responded to pressure recently; yes his big diatribe on Day 1s was missing the point entirely and yes his posting still reads as pretty fake, but I thought the dive against Seppel looked good; I think Id as scum would play more transparently survivalistic; not sure he has the savvy to go for a towncred play which would be what that vote on Seppel would have to be since it sure as he isn't a viable wagon. I think Hunger would be a much stronger choice for third scum. Why do you think that he's town over Tammy or Chris?
Okay on Wheat, we can discuss later.
I don't disagree about Iso2, I'm just not as convinced as some of this other stuff.
Re: Id - he still hasn't done any scum hunting yet. I thought his dive on Seppel was more around seeing if there's a hidden vote, etc. There was a mechanical crutch behind it which I chalked up to more doing things that aren't doing things to appear to be doing things.
Re: Tammy or Chris over Hunger - mostly more paranoia over the former two. Hunger's big entry post also felt towny to me for the reasons I stated earlier about how he was phrasing his thought process and going out of his way to call my favorable read on Chris into question which felt authentic based on the timing and game state and the way he approached it. I don't believe he has familiarity with Necarg, so I buy that. I've played as scum buddies with Hunger before and he felt a little more buttoned up to me in his content (back to the thought process phrasing point). Also Blue interactions (both pushing Necarg in succession, Blue going out of his way recently to undermine Seppel's town read of Hunger) don't really have a scum buddy feel to me and I'm much more in the Blue is scum camp. Things like that.
Also @DC3, I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't scum on your wagon; it was a very very quick wagon and people just sort of ended up on it when they got here. The wagons that are more likely to have scum on them are the mislynches that have been on the table for days and days so scum has time to work their way onto them and seem like they have staying power.
You may be right about my wagon, I'll mull. I still don't feel like Id/Iso2/Blue feels correct as a team, though - and Wheat feels very scummy to me all on his own.
Chris, I also noticed that a majority of Iso's responses to you were explaining about the Blue persona which I didn't think was the point you were making. I think that it's possible he missed the point regardless of alignment, in which case I don't think his response would be particularly telling, but there's also a chance that he would try to shuffle it under the rug and distract you from the read itself if you think that's a way that scumIso would think about playing.
DC3, think your point on the Id wagon popping up when it did would be bad timing is good (assuming it happened shortly after the Necarg vote), didn't think of that before.
Also think your Id point is another solid one; I think your interpretation of that series of posts makes more sense than my initial one, guess I'm just pushing back against the wagon because I want Isoread nailed down.
Both Blue and Hunger pushing Necarg in succession is a good point against a Blue-Hunger partnership.
, but I think that if Hunger voted second there's a chance he was just following his legendary scumbuddy a bit too closely. I'm not quite sure Id-Blue-Scarlet works as a scum team; the position Iso has currently put himself in readswise is a position where it makes the most sense for him to push Wheat after Id and while I think Iso would be willing to bus both partners and go it alone, I don't think he would paint himself into that type of situation if there was a reasonable alternative, especially when Wheat was his other scumbuddy.
My town read on Chris is getting stronger, and I'm not sure what to think about iso going back to iso.
in case i forgot to mention it last night, Id's vote on seppel sucks.
Still fine with lynching either id or iso ii. How many heads are in that hydra? I was under the impression that there were several and none of them can find time to post?
Speaking of that, I doubt I'll have anything more substantial than this response to a super quick skim until Sunday.
My town read on Chris is getting stronger, and I'm not sure what to think about iso going back to iso.
in case i forgot to mention it last night, Id's vote on seppel sucks.
Still fine with lynching either id or iso ii. How many heads are in that hydra? I was under the impression that there were several and none of them can find time to post?
Speaking of that, I doubt I'll have anything more substantial than this response to a super quick skim until Sunday.
Please show your work on this read. I dislike vague statements about my alignment both ways.
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What posts or points have I raised to strengthen your town read on me? Why?
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I like your interaction with Iso. It feels like you're really suspicious of him and trying to figure him out. It doesn't feel fake to me. As you continue to interact with him it feels more and more real to me, hence my read getting stronger.
On par, it feels different than the interaction between iso and wheat, which I can see going either or.
Someone vig Iso tonight so we don't have to waste a second day lynching him.
Good luck with that.
I guess a re-read is in order so I have a better grasp on what I'm going into toNight. I might be able to get it in either on Tuesday or Wednesday after work.
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Chris - I've been calling you town since pretty early in the day. Why did it just catch your attention now?
I don't specifically remember it earlier, but I am going to assume I was chasing another lead when you said it and I didn't care enough about you at the time to change gears/distract myself.
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Thats fine you can go ahead and wait on a claim that isnt coming because i already did my soft claim. You stated you were fine with claiming without me claiming and just lynching me. Now you are waiting for me to claim before you claim?
No sir. I do not think i will claim before the scum who started this claiming bs and then said was going to do a full claim ans then decides to wait since there is a bus rolling. You are scum and i will make my arguement for it forthcoming with or without your so called full claim after everyone else has made a claim.
I am really sorry guys but my phone is dying. I will post in a bit when i can either recgharge or get to a computer.
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The man has a point. Seppel did say that he would claim when he soft claimed.
Well, Seppel?
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I'm untargetable by anything, which is why I wanted to know active or passive. Lots of active is good. Passives are suspect. I dropped a hint that I should be seeing more passives, just to throw people off the trail when claiming.
Oh, one caveat, I'm not immune to kills, so come get me scum!
The way you've played and what you've claimed do not match up.
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I read most of your posts DC, but keep in mind that I've only really been looking at the thread once a day (sometimes once every two days) so I've essentially been in catch-up mode each time.
Ugh I thought seppel was a neighborizer and was looking for the actives because he wanted to do coordination/have a receptacle for results should the active die.
I dislike even more the outing of passive/active now that it wasn't for an actual useful purpose.
I'm actually concerned with the power level at this point, and I agree with Scarlet that the actions don't match up.
Vote Seppel
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Necarg, please don't acknowledge this in any way whatsoever.
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Weird. When I said that about Scarlett, I was referring to the case post. The post just above mine didn't show up.
How doesn't the play match up though Scarlett? How would you expect an ascetic to behave?
if you point out the case post i'll respond
I wouldn't expect an ascetic to go around figuring out who the power roles are. He's immune to them, mostly, why would he care?
Nor does he seem to have got any leads going that are going to help us find scum; I don't see how doing so would find scum anyway. It wouldn't really narrow down the pool of possible scum because not all the scum are going to suddenly claim passive because he hinted at it.
I think Seppel did have a reason to ask, but the reason he gave is definitely not it.
I kind of want Necarg to answer first, but I don't want Wheat to get ideas from Necarg.
So I think Wheat should answer first. Any objections?
Yes. Wheat already did.
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Okay so i think the best way to do this is just to do a play by play of what seppel has done all game. I apologize that i will not be quoting nor hrmling posts as i am still posting from my phone.
#17 wall of rvs. Kinda normal rvs junk
#21 null. #22 suggests that we all massclsim because he is a power roll that confirms other power rolls. I have already gone into length about how suggesting such a thing d1 is scummy, but also it is still early enough to be considered rvs. I feel like this was intentional as to give a fallback.
#25 claims mafia rolecop. Again still early enough to be considered rvs so fallback. Done in a sarcastic way. Reads as deflective to those who would keep questioning d1 claiming. Also it has been pointed out that claiming scum as scum is a high level scum tactic.
#36 suggests chris claims at the back of the line. Reasons for this as town? I can think of none. As scum: either giving a scum buddy a longer chance to see what everyone else is claiming OR putting a town in that category in order to throw the rest of the town off.
#41 asks sir chris if his role makes sense with his own claim. Seppel had claimed scum rolecop... reason for a town to do this? I guess to get a feel for what category chris falls into, but as seppel is an experienced player, i really doubt thats what it is.
#46 in response to chris's "every role makes sense with role cop," inplies that he is nor actually a rolecop. So what was the point of asking #41 if he expected chris to think he wasnt a role cop?
#47 restates that he is a pr that interacts with other prs and that chris is a town rolecop and scarlet is vt. To be clear the only indication that scarlet might be vt at this point is she asks if her fpellow electric is VT. Scummy to me because he is continuing to push everyone into massclaiming despite the fact that no one has really even made a claim.
#49 in response to chris stating that sep only calls him town very early as scum.
Sep states that the only reason that work is when it is based off of behavior and not a claim. Classic deflection. It should also be noted that chris did not make a claim, and has stated so. For some reason sep thinks "a good guy version of you" means the same claim as seppel, except town. I dont seea town sep making this assumption and sticking with it. A scum trying to push a massclaim by moving everything forward is much more likely.
#51 i like this post. A lot. Recall in 49 sep deflected crhis's tell. Now makes a statement based on chris's actions and calls him town. Also states "unless you're a godly page 1 bluffer," ill let you all think on what this could mean.
#52 asks how post 37 is not a counterclaim. I have already said my opinion on the denseness of this assumption
#53 a correction in quoting in 52
#58 swears in response to chris stating that he only counterclaimed sepp claiming scum. Null?
#60 beats a dead horse asking how chris wasnt counterclaiming (as if the horse wasnt dead to begin with) and asks why chris didnt correct him. Chris didnt need to correct him. He was pushing a massclaim.
#61 calls into question scarlet stating that's unfortunate by asking if he is refering to the fact that iso claimed town. What is the point of asking this?
Refers back to chris stating that his arguement is stupid and nothing more can be gained from it. Deflection.
Refers to iso asking if his power is active or passive and thats all he needs to know. Why the back peddle from full claims? Why even expect that anyone would make a fullclaim in the first place? Why not put the whole claim sillyness aside especially since the whole thing was happening between 4 players, by his own admittance.
#68 null statement of game state
#69 null continuation
#77 iso 2's post. Only brought up as it is the first post to truly call into question the massclaim, however, he does not even put up a fight against it.
#78 nacho's "sepp's town" post. Lol random
I would like to ask nacho why he had this initial reaction at this point? Anywho...
#99 sep continues to push massclaim (i guess its inevitable at this point so i will stop pointing it out)
Bouns: offers to full claim after everyone soft claims, so dont bother voting seppel.
So this reads as scummy for 2 noteable reasons. 1 says not to vote him. Votes= suspicion no votes= no one will call into suspicion because "cmon guys i am going to claim anyways" 2 says will do something after evryone else does something. Not a very town way to go about imho. 3 a delay in claiming until after everyone gives info leads to "thats what i thought beacause..."
#101. Another post i absolutely love. States "you can search for mafia now." Not only is this an attempt to distance himself from suspicion, but it discounts all of the posts before as "everyone is town, now lets hunt some mafia"
#103 excitement about a scum tell on dc. Null?
#115 states scum team isnt iso, dc, chris.
An attempt to distance a sumbuddy from a scum list? Me thinks so.
Quotes iso ignoring votes until they are actually relavent. States that is one of his rules for being scum. This reads as him pointing the finger at iso after indirectly clearing him. Also this again refers to his own scum plays.
Challenges chris to come at him, again deflecting.
#121 states is eager to get his claim out of the way, but doesnt want to reval fully until eveyone has weighed in. States is surprised to see so many active powers.
#123 claim update
#124 states that 121 is him wanting to claim right away, but the best play is to not claim until everyone else does. Why wouldnt you want to do the best play as town?
#152 votes dc does not add anyhting "original" to the wagon. I will discuss the dc wagon later.
States that power is confirmable, but does not make him townie at all. If sepp is town, this doesnt make at all.
In regards to chris not liking nacho, says that he thinks that chris's point of dc's claim against me is poop makes chris townie. This is very important in the later shambly bus that builds against me.
Again states nacho is town in response to tammy voting nacho
Quotes tammy's confusing fecesitting post. I actually agree... huh?
#164 not sure who the question of both being scummy is directed at? Maybe chris? I dont know but i would like to know.
Double bonus: again states will fullclaim after evryone else soft claims
Asks for dc's opinion on people not on his wagon. Again more on dc's wagon later.
#166 states that chris as scun does exactly what town chris would do. Not sure what the point is here aside from diversion?
#181 responds to chris pointing out that sep had said scum chris is readable. Asks for a link on it.
Responds to hunger questioning why the scum team isnt as stated above by saying they were the first 3 to vote for him. What an odd thing to assune that the first 3 to vote are not scum. Especially when by own admittance above there were only 4 played ib the game. So very odd.
Votes chilly. Null.
#189 refers back to the above convo with chris having reread the game. Gives a vague reason as to why he thought he had that read. I beleive sep foes actually know what he saw in that game but doesnt want to say. Either because he doesnt want to say something that would cause people to think he thibks chris is town. OR he is scum and doesnt want to give us the information that would all but confirm chris is town.
But he found a new sig quote
Posts up until #209. Null
#209 claim update and a vote against iso 2 with bo reasoning.
#217 in response to chris caling out the vote changing, says oops, then says dc and necarg just played as scum and did the exact same play, cant lynch necarg even if dc flips scum. Also states hunger is town.
#221 in reaponse to my not claiming, attenpts to push me into claiming
Then calls into question my missuse of massclaim vs fullclaim
States that his ability specifically hints at there being other PR in the game.
States that would rather lock people into a tight lie early game to prevent larger lies late game. Would be good logic except that everyone is probably lying in d1 massclaim.
States that some games would be broken by d1 claim. BUT doesnt expect it to happen this game. So the result is everyone is lying and is locked into a lie? Except for the few people who maybe told the truth? I am going to bring this point up in another post.
#222 states that misslynches would probably happen in midgame for "too much power" unless we locked in claims now.
#230 claim update
#234 confirms that double voters are all but confirmed town. Null.
Sorry this is taking a heck of a lot linger than i thought. I will take a break and continue later today.
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That was so pointless I can't believe it comes from scum.
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I wouldn't think it came from scum if it had come from a worse player. Seppel doesn't do anything for no reas- well, that's not entirely true but he's not THIS INSISTENT for no reason.
@Seppel: I already answered. I'll say it again just for you though:
1. Your claim has no link to what you were asking info on because you claim that you can't be affected by anything outside of kills, and therefore having this knowledge is completely irrelevant. This particularly makes no sense because you stated (or at least VERY strongly hinted) that your claim was linked to wanting this info.
2. Even aside from linking the claim to your actions, there's also the fact that having people claim active/passive/vanilla doesn't really help because it's hard to define what is a "normal" amount of each. Hiding an extra scum or even two in a category seems very unlikely to stand out (as evidenced by the fact that nothing DID stand out).
I crave Day 1 massclaims. This is probably the best I'll get, and we have some very clear divides that forced the scum into claiming something that they can't take back, and that they couldn't talk over (unless there's daytalk but I'm counting on there not being since this is "Battle for Vanillaville" (where very few people are vanilla)).
1. Your claim has no link to what you were asking info on because you claim that you can't be affected by anything outside of kills, and therefore having this knowledge is completely irrelevant. This particularly makes no sense because you stated (or at least VERY strongly hinted) that your claim was linked to wanting this info.
Active is affected by me, passive isn't. A high number of passives means we've got a golden scumgroup.
2. Even aside from linking the claim to your actions, there's also the fact that having people claim active/passive/vanilla doesn't really help because it's hard to define what is a "normal" amount of each. Hiding an extra scum or even two in a category seems very unlikely to stand out (as evidenced by the fact that nothing DID stand out).
States that would rather lock people into a tight lie early game to prevent larger lies late game. Would be good logic except that everyone is probably lying in d1 massclaim.
States that some games would be broken by d1 claim. BUT doesnt expect it to happen this game. So the result is everyone is lying and is locked into a lie? Except for the few people who maybe told the truth? I am going to bring this point up in another post.
I was referring to the post where you popped in and said "there's a case on me." You hadn't posted in a bit, so I was wondering why that was all you had to say.
So my read on this situation is we shouldn't be lynching Id. His big wall against Seppel feels genuinely passionate. Also Seppel's play is... pretty selfish and awful, any way you slice it. I think it makes him town and all, but Id finding it objectionable and thinking it comes from a scum perspective is a fairly okay line of thought. It doesn't feel forced to me. I think Id is fine.
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Oh, if someone can also summarize the case on me that isn't just "I don't like Iso this game" (Seppel), "You were playing with a style I am not used to seeing from you as a gimmick" (Sir Chris), "You were phoneposting and did not do things that you would have done if you had more time" (Nacho), "lol /barn Seppel, Nacho, and Chris" (DCIII), I'm sure I could save us all a lot of time and lynch desperation when I address whatever is standing against me tomorrow night. Thanks in advance.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
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I do not like this at all.
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But fine.
@imab: I am replacing BlueElectric.
Come at me.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Although one thing that I find striking... is how you misunderstand me in this process. See I don't think it is a conflict of interest, I think that just because you have a strong town read on me doesn't mean I need return the sentiment if I don't feel that way. I have had many scum over my career try to get onto my good side by declaring me town. I am very, very cautious about declaring excellent players town unless I think I have a very solid read on them. Very solid. Because as you should know when I declare people town I do so with conviction. When I say someone is town in my mind they are town unless they get scanned otherwise. It is how I am able to, most of the time, effectively narrow games because of my willingness to dismiss my paranoia once I reach a certain point. It is, in my opinion, one of my greatest strengths.
I... don't know where your strong game is right now. Like I don't THINK my problem with you is your choice of hair color, for example. I think it is something else, disguised under that wig that makes it both harder to figure out and easier for you to disguise if you are scum. I cannot put my finger on it, but if it was simply a matter of persona I don't think I would have much of a problem. I parsed through Scarlet easily enough, for example.
Regardless of persona, I don't feel as if you're crisp this game so far. Or maybe I am the one who isn't crisp and just doesn't realize it, to be fair. I am not trying to 'alienate' you, I am trying my best to declare you town but I can't figure out how yet. As I do everyone, if you haven't caught on yet. That's just how I play most of the time. I vote in the hopes that someone will show their town self so that I may add them to my collection. Thus far you haven't given me reason to unvote. (note: haven't read several posts still, I am just bantering with you from work atm)
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There are a lot of things that could be going on here if you're scum, and I think the first paragraph over simplifies it a bit. The short answer is, yes, if you are scum, I don't think you were in a good place to jump on Id regardless of his alignment as you'd already voted Necarg and then Id sprung up as the counter to you. Better probably to try to look convicted with your read (prior to that aspect of the read on you being in focus). Your soft bus of Wheat early is more than reasonable and your stance later is a result of me asking you about it (and, actually, your earlier focus on Wheat seemed off the radar entirely when you were considering that I was scum). Maybe you'd have bused Id hard there if he was scum, maybe you'd think that was too obvious, though. Maybe you thought the Id wagon was more likely to take anyway and he's Town, then you stay away from it entirely. But, if anything, that makes me question my read of Id more than my read on you.
Okay on Wheat, we can discuss later.
I don't disagree about Iso2, I'm just not as convinced as some of this other stuff.
Re: Id - he still hasn't done any scum hunting yet. I thought his dive on Seppel was more around seeing if there's a hidden vote, etc. There was a mechanical crutch behind it which I chalked up to more doing things that aren't doing things to appear to be doing things.
Re: Tammy or Chris over Hunger - mostly more paranoia over the former two. Hunger's big entry post also felt towny to me for the reasons I stated earlier about how he was phrasing his thought process and going out of his way to call my favorable read on Chris into question which felt authentic based on the timing and game state and the way he approached it. I don't believe he has familiarity with Necarg, so I buy that. I've played as scum buddies with Hunger before and he felt a little more buttoned up to me in his content (back to the thought process phrasing point). Also Blue interactions (both pushing Necarg in succession, Blue going out of his way recently to undermine Seppel's town read of Hunger) don't really have a scum buddy feel to me and I'm much more in the Blue is scum camp. Things like that.
You may be right about my wagon, I'll mull. I still don't feel like Id/Iso2/Blue feels correct as a team, though - and Wheat feels very scummy to me all on his own.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
@Mod - V/LA until Sept. 21.
DC3, think your point on the Id wagon popping up when it did would be bad timing is good (assuming it happened shortly after the Necarg vote), didn't think of that before.
Also think your Id point is another solid one; I think your interpretation of that series of posts makes more sense than my initial one, guess I'm just pushing back against the wagon because I want Isoread nailed down.
Both Blue and Hunger pushing Necarg in succession is a good point against a Blue-Hunger partnership.
, but I think that if Hunger voted second there's a chance he was just following his legendary scumbuddy a bit too closely. I'm not quite sure Id-Blue-Scarlet works as a scum team; the position Iso has currently put himself in readswise is a position where it makes the most sense for him to push Wheat after Id and while I think Iso would be willing to bus both partners and go it alone, I don't think he would paint himself into that type of situation if there was a reasonable alternative, especially when Wheat was his other scumbuddy.
in case i forgot to mention it last night, Id's vote on seppel sucks.
Still fine with lynching either id or iso ii. How many heads are in that hydra? I was under the impression that there were several and none of them can find time to post?
Speaking of that, I doubt I'll have anything more substantial than this response to a super quick skim until Sunday.
Please show your work on this read. I dislike vague statements about my alignment both ways.
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2015 - Best Town Player
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2015 - Best Overall Player
You could ask me a less vague question.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
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2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
On par, it feels different than the interaction between iso and wheat, which I can see going either or.
Waiting on Id's claim. It likely won't be disastrous if I claim before him, but I might as well wait.
Good luck with that.
I guess a re-read is in order so I have a better grasp on what I'm going into toNight. I might be able to get it in either on Tuesday or Wednesday after work.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I don't specifically remember it earlier, but I am going to assume I was chasing another lead when you said it and I didn't care enough about you at the time to change gears/distract myself.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
So you're paying pretty close attention to what I'm saying then...
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
No sir. I do not think i will claim before the scum who started this claiming bs and then said was going to do a full claim ans then decides to wait since there is a bus rolling. You are scum and i will make my arguement for it forthcoming with or without your so called full claim after everyone else has made a claim.
I am really sorry guys but my phone is dying. I will post in a bit when i can either recgharge or get to a computer.
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Well, Seppel?
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Anyway, I claimed in my first post:
I'm untargetable by anything, which is why I wanted to know active or passive. Lots of active is good. Passives are suspect. I dropped a hint that I should be seeing more passives, just to throw people off the trail when claiming.
Oh, one caveat, I'm not immune to kills, so come get me scum!
FTFY.
The way you've played and what you've claimed do not match up.
---
I read most of your posts DC, but keep in mind that I've only really been looking at the thread once a day (sometimes once every two days) so I've essentially been in catch-up mode each time.
I'm not going to go back and look for it.
I dislike even more the outing of passive/active now that it wasn't for an actual useful purpose.
Is that really all scarlet has to say?
How doesn't the play match up though Scarlett? How would you expect an ascetic to behave?
I'm actually concerned with the power level at this point, and I agree with Scarlet that the actions don't match up.
Vote Seppel
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if you point out the case post i'll respond
I wouldn't expect an ascetic to go around figuring out who the power roles are. He's immune to them, mostly, why would he care?
Nor does he seem to have got any leads going that are going to help us find scum; I don't see how doing so would find scum anyway. It wouldn't really narrow down the pool of possible scum because not all the scum are going to suddenly claim passive because he hinted at it.
I think Seppel did have a reason to ask, but the reason he gave is definitely not it.
So I think Wheat should answer first. Any objections?
Yes. Wheat already did.
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Rules Advisor before they were eradicated
#17 wall of rvs. Kinda normal rvs junk
#21 null. #22 suggests that we all massclsim because he is a power roll that confirms other power rolls. I have already gone into length about how suggesting such a thing d1 is scummy, but also it is still early enough to be considered rvs. I feel like this was intentional as to give a fallback.
#25 claims mafia rolecop. Again still early enough to be considered rvs so fallback. Done in a sarcastic way. Reads as deflective to those who would keep questioning d1 claiming. Also it has been pointed out that claiming scum as scum is a high level scum tactic.
#36 suggests chris claims at the back of the line. Reasons for this as town? I can think of none. As scum: either giving a scum buddy a longer chance to see what everyone else is claiming OR putting a town in that category in order to throw the rest of the town off.
#41 asks sir chris if his role makes sense with his own claim. Seppel had claimed scum rolecop... reason for a town to do this? I guess to get a feel for what category chris falls into, but as seppel is an experienced player, i really doubt thats what it is.
#46 in response to chris's "every role makes sense with role cop," inplies that he is nor actually a rolecop. So what was the point of asking #41 if he expected chris to think he wasnt a role cop?
#47 restates that he is a pr that interacts with other prs and that chris is a town rolecop and scarlet is vt. To be clear the only indication that scarlet might be vt at this point is she asks if her fpellow electric is VT. Scummy to me because he is continuing to push everyone into massclaiming despite the fact that no one has really even made a claim.
#49 in response to chris stating that sep only calls him town very early as scum.
Sep states that the only reason that work is when it is based off of behavior and not a claim. Classic deflection. It should also be noted that chris did not make a claim, and has stated so. For some reason sep thinks "a good guy version of you" means the same claim as seppel, except town. I dont seea town sep making this assumption and sticking with it. A scum trying to push a massclaim by moving everything forward is much more likely.
#51 i like this post. A lot. Recall in 49 sep deflected crhis's tell. Now makes a statement based on chris's actions and calls him town. Also states "unless you're a godly page 1 bluffer," ill let you all think on what this could mean.
#52 asks how post 37 is not a counterclaim. I have already said my opinion on the denseness of this assumption
#53 a correction in quoting in 52
#58 swears in response to chris stating that he only counterclaimed sepp claiming scum. Null?
#60 beats a dead horse asking how chris wasnt counterclaiming (as if the horse wasnt dead to begin with) and asks why chris didnt correct him. Chris didnt need to correct him. He was pushing a massclaim.
#61 calls into question scarlet stating that's unfortunate by asking if he is refering to the fact that iso claimed town. What is the point of asking this?
Refers back to chris stating that his arguement is stupid and nothing more can be gained from it. Deflection.
Refers to iso asking if his power is active or passive and thats all he needs to know. Why the back peddle from full claims? Why even expect that anyone would make a fullclaim in the first place? Why not put the whole claim sillyness aside especially since the whole thing was happening between 4 players, by his own admittance.
#68 null statement of game state
#69 null continuation
#77 iso 2's post. Only brought up as it is the first post to truly call into question the massclaim, however, he does not even put up a fight against it.
#78 nacho's "sepp's town" post. Lol random
I would like to ask nacho why he had this initial reaction at this point? Anywho...
#99 sep continues to push massclaim (i guess its inevitable at this point so i will stop pointing it out)
Bouns: offers to full claim after everyone soft claims, so dont bother voting seppel.
So this reads as scummy for 2 noteable reasons. 1 says not to vote him. Votes= suspicion no votes= no one will call into suspicion because "cmon guys i am going to claim anyways" 2 says will do something after evryone else does something. Not a very town way to go about imho. 3 a delay in claiming until after everyone gives info leads to "thats what i thought beacause..."
#101. Another post i absolutely love. States "you can search for mafia now." Not only is this an attempt to distance himself from suspicion, but it discounts all of the posts before as "everyone is town, now lets hunt some mafia"
#103 excitement about a scum tell on dc. Null?
#115 states scum team isnt iso, dc, chris.
An attempt to distance a sumbuddy from a scum list? Me thinks so.
Quotes iso ignoring votes until they are actually relavent. States that is one of his rules for being scum. This reads as him pointing the finger at iso after indirectly clearing him. Also this again refers to his own scum plays.
Challenges chris to come at him, again deflecting.
#121 states is eager to get his claim out of the way, but doesnt want to reval fully until eveyone has weighed in. States is surprised to see so many active powers.
#123 claim update
#124 states that 121 is him wanting to claim right away, but the best play is to not claim until everyone else does. Why wouldnt you want to do the best play as town?
#152 votes dc does not add anyhting "original" to the wagon. I will discuss the dc wagon later.
States that power is confirmable, but does not make him townie at all. If sepp is town, this doesnt make at all.
In regards to chris not liking nacho, says that he thinks that chris's point of dc's claim against me is poop makes chris townie. This is very important in the later shambly bus that builds against me.
Again states nacho is town in response to tammy voting nacho
Quotes tammy's confusing fecesitting post. I actually agree... huh?
#164 not sure who the question of both being scummy is directed at? Maybe chris? I dont know but i would like to know.
Double bonus: again states will fullclaim after evryone else soft claims
Asks for dc's opinion on people not on his wagon. Again more on dc's wagon later.
#166 states that chris as scun does exactly what town chris would do. Not sure what the point is here aside from diversion?
#181 responds to chris pointing out that sep had said scum chris is readable. Asks for a link on it.
Responds to hunger questioning why the scum team isnt as stated above by saying they were the first 3 to vote for him. What an odd thing to assune that the first 3 to vote are not scum. Especially when by own admittance above there were only 4 played ib the game. So very odd.
Votes chilly. Null.
#189 refers back to the above convo with chris having reread the game. Gives a vague reason as to why he thought he had that read. I beleive sep foes actually know what he saw in that game but doesnt want to say. Either because he doesnt want to say something that would cause people to think he thibks chris is town. OR he is scum and doesnt want to give us the information that would all but confirm chris is town.
But he found a new sig quote
Posts up until #209. Null
#209 claim update and a vote against iso 2 with bo reasoning.
#217 in response to chris caling out the vote changing, says oops, then says dc and necarg just played as scum and did the exact same play, cant lynch necarg even if dc flips scum. Also states hunger is town.
#221 in reaponse to my not claiming, attenpts to push me into claiming
Then calls into question my missuse of massclaim vs fullclaim
States that his ability specifically hints at there being other PR in the game.
States that would rather lock people into a tight lie early game to prevent larger lies late game. Would be good logic except that everyone is probably lying in d1 massclaim.
States that some games would be broken by d1 claim. BUT doesnt expect it to happen this game. So the result is everyone is lying and is locked into a lie? Except for the few people who maybe told the truth? I am going to bring this point up in another post.
#222 states that misslynches would probably happen in midgame for "too much power" unless we locked in claims now.
#230 claim update
#234 confirms that double voters are all but confirmed town. Null.
Sorry this is taking a heck of a lot linger than i thought. I will take a break and continue later today.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Outbreak
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2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
@Seppel: I already answered. I'll say it again just for you though:
1. Your claim has no link to what you were asking info on because you claim that you can't be affected by anything outside of kills, and therefore having this knowledge is completely irrelevant. This particularly makes no sense because you stated (or at least VERY strongly hinted) that your claim was linked to wanting this info.
2. Even aside from linking the claim to your actions, there's also the fact that having people claim active/passive/vanilla doesn't really help because it's hard to define what is a "normal" amount of each. Hiding an extra scum or even two in a category seems very unlikely to stand out (as evidenced by the fact that nothing DID stand out).
Active is affected by me, passive isn't. A high number of passives means we've got a golden scumgroup.
Don't care. That's worthless.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Unvote
I want to put some more work into this game before I vote someone else.
I was referring to the post where you popped in and said "there's a case on me." You hadn't posted in a bit, so I was wondering why that was all you had to say.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
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2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
On that note, I don't think I'm voting Iso.
Unvote, vote Iso.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player