@Blue - to your 1st point - you're either missing or talking past the point I was making. I'm not saying that you don't use a similar scum hunting method as both accounts, I'm saying that it's far fetched to assume that a player who hadn't played in a long time would recognize that you were the same person. Chris didn't and he's been playing here regularly. I didn't when I was first exposed to the account. So it's weird that you'd think that's a reason he'd know who you are.
You also said you found that point of mine dishonest but your read on me changed positively - so, what's up?
2nd point - I agree that Id is scum. I'm still dubious that you'd think it likely at that time that Id would be trying to bait you into saying something scummy, especially if you thought he knew who you were. I'd think that a more natural thought would be either that he actually thought what you did was scummy or that he was scum. He doesn't read like a baiting kind of player, he's too green for that, and you've played with him before, so the mindset would have to be that Iso, as Blue, thinks that Id knows who he is, and is trying to bait a reaction out of him by calling his first post scummy. I'm trying to decide if this is one of those "Iso and DCIII don't see eye to eye" points or if I should trust my gut on it.
3rd point - I was at L-3 when you chimed in. Tammy had previously unvoted and then Chris. But what was the actual purpose of giving your opinion there? Because what I took from that was that you liked Nacho's case, but the wagon felt quick, and you didn't like Seppel or Necarg's votes on it. But that neither supports nor opposes the wagon so why did you think it was time sensitive to express that opinion?
btw necarg when did u become such a sage with 3 whole games
It's this thing called a joke. Have you heard of them? They're a delicacy in most places, apparently.
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Necarg, please don't acknowledge this in any way whatsoever.
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This is your mod reminding you that you should always consume copious amounts of alcohol when watching Republican debates. Also JEB Bush thinks Dubya "kept us safe" even though the largest terrorist attack in our nation's history happened on his watch. The WTF'ery is strong with that dude.
I'm too drunk/angry for a vote count but one is coming tonight/tomorrow for sure.
@Blue - to your 1st point - you're either missing or talking past the point I was making. I'm not saying that you don't use a similar scum hunting method as both accounts, I'm saying that it's far fetched to assume that a player who hadn't played in a long time would recognize that you were the same person. Chris didn't and he's been playing here regularly. I didn't when I was first exposed to the account. So it's weird that you'd think that's a reason he'd know who you are.
Given that Mister Chris did not reveal his lack of knowledge of my identity until later on, I do not see how that is a relevant factor to this. For all intents and purposes, I came into the game assuming that every player knew that I was Mister Iso, and that Miss Scarlet was Mister Wheat. I know that in my hiatuses from MafiaScum, I have come back strongly remembering the details of my previous game on the site. If I am wrong for holding other people to my own standards, so be it.
Quote from DCIII »
You also said you found that point of mine dishonest but your read on me changed positively - so, what's up?
I want to hold on to this for the purpose of reading you in the future, but given the Electron Cloud QT, I imagine it is more sporting of me to out this now, as it is something that would eventually need to be discussed there, anyway. So, I am under the impression that the more ludicrous your case sounds on me, the more likely you are to be town. (Of course, saying this now invalidates this, but it is something that I picked up on in this game.) I believe that you as a bad guy would know when you no longer have the footing on which to push an invalid point and would cede that, but as town, I believe that you are more inclined to follow your gut and continue the push when you have been proven wrong.
Quote from DCIII »
2nd point - I agree that Id is scum. I'm still dubious that you'd think it likely at that time that Id would be trying to bait you into saying something scummy, especially if you thought he knew who you were. I'd think that a more natural thought would be either that he actually thought what you did was scummy or that he was scum. He doesn't read like a baiting kind of player, he's too green for that, and you've played with him before, so the mindset would have to be that Iso, as Blue, thinks that Id knows who he is, and is trying to bait a reaction out of him by calling his first post scummy. I'm trying to decide if this is one of those "Iso and DCIII don't see eye to eye" points or if I should trust my gut on it.
Well obviously it is the former and not the latter. ^^ At any rate, Mister Id has played before, though I do not know the extent of his game history; that being said, I do not think it is out of the realm of possibility for players who have not refined their playstyles to the degree that, for example, you or I have, to resort to tactics such as RVS baiting. It is certainly a tactic that I favored more frequently in my earlier days as a player. Anyway, apples and oranges, Mister DC!
Quote from DCIII »
3rd point - I was at L-3 when you chimed in. Tammy had previously unvoted and then Chris. But what was the actual purpose of giving your opinion there? Because what I took from that was that you liked Nacho's case, but the wagon felt quick, and you didn't like Seppel or Necarg's votes on it. But that neither supports nor opposes the wagon so why did you think it was time sensitive to express that opinion?
I must not have been following along very carefully, then - the last thing I recalled prior to my post was someone stating that you were at L-1, and I do not remember seeing any unvotes from your wagon up to the point where I made my post. Had you claimed by then? Perhaps I am chronologically mixing events up.
I am not certain why you feel that stating that I would have voted you is not me expressing support of the wagon on you - rather, it seems the exact opposite, to me. I felt that it was time-sensitive because I thought that you were at L-1 and I wished to advise of intent to hammer if I was not satisfied with your claim and subsequent follow-up. (Clearly, I was. ^^) As for my dislike for the speed of your wagon and the voters, I thought that there was a good chance that you would be the lynch toDay, and wanted other players to look into my interpretation of the events as they unfolded. As stated, I am a firm believer that my opinion holds more value than anybody else's, and my track record indicates that I am particularly adept at sniffing out the votes that bad guys cast on lynch wagons.
Quote from DCIII »
Where does your read on Wheat stand?
Miss Scarlet is playing in such a manner that I believe her to be leaning towards being a bad guy in my worldview. Her recent interactions with Mister Id seem strange, and forced, and it feels as though she is not entirely focused on solving the game at present. I believe there was some earlier play of hers that had me scratching my head, as well, but I do not recall off-hand what it was.
A recent family emergency has prevented me from doing a reread, apologies. But for now i have a lot to respond to, so I gues it will have to wait a bit longer.
Lets start with:
Top three scum reads are Id Ego, Seppel and Scarlet/Wheat. Id's actually the strongest read of the three because of the crocodile faces, but the Seppel wagon is good too.
Vote: Seppel
This is the reason for me being hesitant about whether or not it was brackets still. I wasnt sure if it was actually brackets or if there was just an error in the way dc posted. More to follow.
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Generation B1: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
Okay so here is a history lesson for those of you who dont know it (basically everyone except for a few)
I started in these forums way way back when i first started school. I had always used the site to look at the latest and greatest spoilers, but then eventually looked into the forums and saw all the fun i could have. I played MTG RPG in The coloseum forum.i tried my hand at a few pen and paper games that really just never took off. I tried playing a bit of other rpg . I also found the forum games section (which mafia used to be a subforum of...) i played the quick reply games and eventually headed over to mafia and signed up for a few games. I had aome stuff going on and got replaced in a few of my game, but the most memorable to me right now are southpark mafaia and left 4 dead mafia. These 2 games are really what caused me to start with my disclaimer. I was town in southpark mafia, i was actually satan. Which everyone assumed was mafia by meta. Then everyone realized satan was actually townish in the show. Then everyone thought i used satan as a "safe mafia claim." Anwyays we ended up ousting my lover who was sadam. I was suicidal and died as a result of his lynch. Looking back i guess it wasnt a bad death. But still left a bad d1 taste in my mouth since i was put in a l-2 position all based on something i did or said i believe even then in the RVS. Left 4 dead I was town roleblocker. I dont recall what happened but i ended up having to claim and claimed truthfully as a foolish noob that i was roleblocker. They decided roleblocker was a mafia ability and boom goes the lynching wagon. There was also another game where I was mafia, it had something to do with gods or some such, i dont recall that game so well, except that my mafia partner ousted himself in a gambit that actually got us pretty far towards victory.
Why is all of this important? Maybe it isnt to you, and claiming i hate d1 is enough to place traction down on me.
More to come.
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During the investigation it was concluded that this sign was actually written by a perpetrator of the crime.
Was it an internal cry for help or an attempt to trick the investigators?
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And so as chilly is the only person who is voting me (omg lol wtf) i am realizing i have a lot less to answer than i thought. I am down for sep claiming regardless of whay happens from this result so, sure
@sep: I am active.
Now it's yourn turn.
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A recent family emergency has prevented me from doing a reread, apologies. But for now i have a lot to respond to, so I gues it will have to wait a bit longer.
Lets start with: [snip]
During the investigation it was concluded that this sign was actually written by a perpetrator of the crime.
Was it an internal cry for help or an attempt to trick the investigators?
Clearly a trick. Otherwise the E's wouldn't have the exact same pattern to them.
Ahhhh sepp IS voting me. And chilly is confrimed double vote? Now for meta as to whether or not this makes him town... the only arguement i could make for it being a scum ability is if the town was all super powered.... which probably doesnt make sense in a mini.
Counter thought to a double vote is a hidden voter. But i am the only one not voting... vote seppel
Just so we can clear that up.
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A recent family emergency has prevented me from doing a reread, apologies. But for now i have a lot to respond to, so I gues it will have to wait a bit longer.
Lets start with: [snip]
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I am partially active and partially passive; pretty confident Necarg is decently town as a result, but will know far more about this in a couple of nights (hence my desire to hold off). Necarg, please don't acknowledge this in any way whatsoever.
I'm acknowledging it and noting it forever.
@Mod: Would it be against the rules to put "Necarg, please don;t acknowledge this in any way whatsoever." in my sig?
@Mod plz look at this thx.
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Necarg, please don't acknowledge this in any way whatsoever.
True Name Mafia (Win),Clan Contest IX Mafia (Win), Bravely Default Mafia (Loss), BOTAS (loss), BfV (Loss), Ace Attourney (loss)
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I am partially active and partially passive; pretty confident Necarg is decently town as a result, but will know far more about this in a couple of nights (hence my desire to hold off). Necarg, please don't acknowledge this in any way whatsoever.
I'm acknowledging it and noting it forever.
@Mod: Would it be against the rules to put "Necarg, please don;t acknowledge this in any way whatsoever." in my sig?
@Mod plz look at this thx.
Oh, I didn't think that was a serious comment. No I don't have a problem with that. It doesn't look objectionable that I can see.
My thoughts are with the friends and family of the Orlando Shooting victims and with the rest of the LGBTQA+ community.
Check out my Newborder Peasant Cube here! http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/37467
Necarg, please don't acknowledge this in any way whatsoever.
True Name Mafia (Win),Clan Contest IX Mafia (Win), Bravely Default Mafia (Loss), BOTAS (loss), BfV (Loss), Ace Attourney (loss)
Rules Advisor before they were eradicated
Mister Cyan's claim in The Wall Mafia should have gotten him lynched, and I did not believe him at the time of his claim, for the record.
Why does that matter?
I do not like my achievements going unnoticed.
Also, Mister Sep, correct me if I'm wrong - but did you just clear Mister Chilly for being a double voter when you just stated that we should stop clearing people for their claims?
Why would we lynch a good guy when we can lynch a bad guy, instead? ^^
-
@Mod: Why do you have me listed as voting for Mister Iso2? I am voting for Mister Necarg at present.
On that note, I would really, really like to lynch Mister Necarg for being on literally every major wagon he has been around to vote on, as well as Mister Id for the reasons I outlined to Mister DC. ^^
Okay never mind my star earlier, Seppel is town. I looked back at what I thought was off before and I think I was just being nitpicky...that and his posts just feel so damned town over the last page.
mod - I'm not voting myself - Iso II is voting me.
Id has a serious misunderstanding of the game if he thinks people are voting him because he hates day one. Newsflash bucko 80% of the people who play mafia hate day one. ~Percentage taken completely out of my ass btw~ There are very few people who thrive early game and way more of us who just hate and flail around waiting for flips to come. There's a reason I almost never die before night three.
The thing that bothers me the most about Miss Blue is that she seems to be leaving the door open for her scum reads or for trying to tear down people's town reads. It's not a really overt thing and the last time I thought someone was doing this they ended up being paranoid newb town. But there's one thing that some scum have a hard time with and that's naturally just changing their mind and that sometimes shows in having an aversion to calling someone town early on because they think they can't just change their mind tomorrow, and that's what it feels like she's doing. (I'd have to read back to even point out what I'm talking about and I'm getting tired and still have a contract to read tonight and send in thoughts on before sleep, and I'm not so sure it's that big a deal because it can be taken care of yesterday but it's something I want to note. It also might not be as prevalent as I remember it being as reading along, so more so for something to make note of and see if anyone else notices it as well.)
Anyway, unless something spectacular happens I'd still rather lynch Id or Iso II today.
OH DC - that's right. I wanted to say that I *do* tend to hold on to my vote regardless of my alignment. I can't remember why I was being extra sticky with my vote that game, but there was a particular reason. Though you did pick up on something actually real and alignment relevant and that's the way I scum hunt. I'm not going to point out much more because I know the difference, and try as I might I can't really replicate it, but it's the best way to read me.
The thing that bothers me the most about Miss Blue is that she seems to be leaving the door open for her scum reads or for trying to tear down people's town reads. It's not a really overt thing and the last time I thought someone was doing this they ended up being paranoid newb town. But there's one thing that some scum have a hard time with and that's naturally just changing their mind and that sometimes shows in having an aversion to calling someone town early on because they think they can't just change their mind tomorrow, and that's what it feels like she's doing. (I'd have to read back to even point out what I'm talking about and I'm getting tired and still have a contract to read tonight and send in thoughts on before sleep, and I'm not so sure it's that big a deal because it can be taken care of yesterday but it's something I want to note. It also might not be as prevalent as I remember it being as reading along, so more so for something to make note of and see if anyone else notices it as well.)
Anyway, unless something spectacular happens I'd still rather lynch Id or Iso II today.
I agree with this point about Blue, btw, I was thinking similarly about his last post.
@Nacho - I like that post and I like your reads (except I'm not sold on Wheat at all... why are you? And your list would have no scum on my wagon which I don't believe - and I haven't seen enough from Iso 2 yet than to get anything but a "well, they're not doing anything towny" vibe).
Responding to some of your stuff - I think Chris is the kind of mafia player who could work his way on to a wagon whimsically and use it as a reason he's town later. I think he could manufacture trying to look care free, knowing he'd take heat and thinking he could get out of it. I don't think he'd feel the need to over-justify himself there as scum and I think he'd feel confident that he could talk his way out of any pressure that came back as a result, especially considering on the surface there were votes that looked worse than his - which is why I don't think there was a ton of incentive for him to jump off of my wagon when he did. I get you and Hunger's point that he's sneaky, and I agree, but I doubt that the net advantage of endgaming town cred there would outweigh the advantage of getting my claim and/or getting me lynched. Maybe he was smart enough to see that my post was obv town enough to jump off and wanted to get in before anyone else did... but the converse of that is that he was taking me out of claim range before seeing how anyone else responded/then he was actively questioning Blue for his stance on me which would have discouraged him from pushing me as well, which, if Chris knew I was town, I'd think he'd let Blue dig that grave unless they were scum together, which is possible, but I don't think is more likely than not. How quickly my wagon built and getting me out of the game I feel like would have seemed pretty tempting, as well. It's a move that I think he's capable of making... but I still think it's a lot less likely than he just correctly read me.
Regarding the Id "dislike his post but disagree with the HTML tell" point - as scum it'd be a way to keep the suspicion on Id open so you could bus if you needed but to try to push me for a point you thought looked bad - then when I flip town, decide whether you still wanted to pursue Id or not - but I like the rest of your thought on him and how you got to them, the overdoing the brackets thing by doing the test I agree feels over the top.
Wheat is a read that is guided more significantly by gut than most of your other reads; you're right he should probably still be in the leaning town tier, but I just really like the way he's approaching the game, it feels really genuine. I'll pay closer attention to his later posts and see if I can't get something more concrete :/
To your Chris thoughts... If I was scum and I was in his position, I would move off the wagon 100% of the time. I don't particularly think he's scum so this point isn't particularly important for me to argue, but just something to think about if people start flipping town where they shouldn't flip town.
I don't see a need to "leave doors open to bus". If I want to bus, then I'm able to make a case on a player. If I can't make a case on a scumbuddy, then they are playing well enough where they don't need to be bussed. I'm also the type of town player with sudden suspicion appearing and disappearing, and thus am not really that concerned about outs when scum, but again, not really that relevant. I feel we're mostly on the ame page anyways.
---Iso2---
I remember someone saying that they actually liked the big catchup that is currently making me vomit blood, and I'd love to ask why. The only real stance they had beside "Tammy is scum because quickhammer" was...
1) Necarg is a wagoning machine that has watched space jam
2) Wheat can now ask them questions
3) Huh?
4) Chilly is scummy, then chilly is confirmed town for double voter
5) Id Ego is fencesitting
The only one of these things that isn't terrible or nothingness is the Id Ego point but bussing the weak point of the scumteam really isn't something that should get anyone townread. Seppel, what on god's green earth did you see in this post? I also thought Tammy's point that she might have seemed a decent against the grain target for scum not familiar with her was a good one; don't actually think anything she's posted is scummy but might seem a yummy target for scum because she hasn't done much and that horrible attack is scum trying to capitalize on a target like that even though they don't actually have any legitimate reasons for thinking what they think.
Will save my problems with blue for the other post I'm going to make. Id is the least likely scum out of the TRIFECTA so I'm unhappy we're lynching him today; I want a chance to look over Wheat/Chris/Hunger and again would much much much rather have Blue go down first because he is degrees scummier than Id (who could just be posting super awkwardly) for reasons I will get into in a moment.
1) To reiterate my position (since it's never been addressed), I thought that it was strange that you didn't acknowledge DCIII's big post when it came aka during your post before the Necarg vote post. I understand that you probably didn't have time to dissect it on a phone (this site is not kind to phone posters), but that doesn't mean you couldn't read or skim it or form some kind of opinion. As scum, I can see you not commenting on it because you wanted to leave your options open down the road, and I can see you as scum not wanting to take an immediate position or acknowledge you were familiar with the post because it did look very town and waiting would give you time to see if the town realized how town it was. I'm also nowhere close to believing your "oh DCIII makes bad pushes as town" tell is the reason you backed off if the reason you were pushing a case on him in the first place was because he was making a bad push. I'm also fairly confident that the big DCIII post also included the big push on Chris which additionally perfectly fits the towntell you're describing but you decided to keep plugging ahead... why, exactly? If you were still considering the post, why didn't you say as much instead of claim that you were waiting because you were uncomfortable with how the wagon formed?
2) Let's talk about that True Name comparison. The first warning flag for me was that Blue's True Name interpretation was completely different from DCIII's (DCIII said "serious, nervous", Blue said "fast and loose"). Let's look at a post:
Sorry for not posting recently. My tablet (which is how I am posting with my gimmick) went haywire. It's good now, though, so expect a bit more from me.
For the first time in a while, I agree with Juunn. Charm isn't posting like a VT would. He is instead posting like he has a role, and ,since he has said he isn't town PR, that means he is a good bet to be mafia.
Unvote
Vote Charm
If you have any unanswered questions towards me, please ask again.
Now maybe Necarg just improved like crazy in the later game but all posts on his gimmick account look like thi and are the farthest thing from "fast and loose" or from his ISO in this game, so explain please? Otherwise it seems far more likely you're using a shallow meta read to push one of the few viable mislynches left in the game.
So you had no intention of following through with the reading, initially?
This exchange is terrible terrible terrible.
That's not at all what Chris said and that much should be obvious; this reads far more like a potshot than a valid line of thought.
I also would love if anyone could explain why id is a stronger scumread than blue because I'm not feeling so great about that read anymore; don't think an Iso-Id-Iso2 team is that comfortable with bussing where both just sort of toss him under and I find it really strange that neither player tried to even float Hunger suspicion if they are scum and he is town because he seems like a really juicy target for me and a possible way to derail id wagon/lynch someone else after id.
Mister Nacho, you'll note that I did actually address your point; your failure to read is not my prerogative. ^^
As far as Mister Necarg's posting style goes, I will point out that he was V/LA for the first part of the game - it was only towards the end (his posts that I actually remember) that were "fast and loose".
@Nacho - I like where your head is. That shows the reason I don't like Blue's Necarg vote - Necarg's functional game play (i.e. voting with wagons) is similar - but he does do that as either alignment (Bravely Default he did this enough that ZDS called it out at the end of the game and encouraged him to keep doing it) - but his approach is way different. Blue saying that he was "fast and loose" later on I don't agree with, either. He mostly claimed miller, clammed up, and chimed in either to move his vote or when absolutely necessary. He wasn't a discussion driver and his content was game focused and serious. Here, he feels much more free with his posting. And Blue's most recent line about him being on every single major wagon feels bad - because it feels like a point that is more designed to sound bad than I think he'd actually think is bad, considering the player. Like, it feels like it's trying to divert the game play from the on going back toward Necarg - but Blue has also said it's likely Id is scum in his post to me and Id is the Blue counter wagon right now. And Tammy's comment.
So talk with me a bit. Wheat is playing all kind of scummy. I didn't like his push on Chilly or the way he described it, then he kind of clammed up about me entirely, probably because he realizes that's a dead end now - but he never corrected or changed that view, but he isn't doing anything with it. He also said he still liked his vote on Chilly after the double vote thing was exposed but very little detail or context around that chime in or why he thought that way when others weren't, and now he moves to Id after previously having beef with me for my read on Id and saying that Id seemed more newb than scum (which is what I'd say about Chilly, not Id). His world view is still convinced I'm scum (and I believe I picked apart that mindset earlier which is when he went quiet), but his reasoning for voting Id is because he's bored. Why would he be bored if a big scum read of his (me) is running around influencing the game. He's not taking issue with it, he's not updating that read, he's just letting it go and then jumping on some other wagons without much hubbub. Btw, you looked at True Name and picked up on the differences in Necarg's play - Wheat was scum with the two of us and hasn't raised any concern that Blue is pushing Necarg... which is something else that feels icky to me. And Blue's response to me about why Wheat feels scum actually seemed spot on - he doesn't feel like he's actually scum hunting despite it all.
So, what does that mean for Id? Probably nothing if Blue is also scum and although that's what I think the scum team most likely is, having a theory that's that exact doesn't seem overly great to count on. I don't disagree with what you and Tammy are saying about Iso2 - but I don't think Id, Blue, Iso2 is the scum team. I would be very surprised if there wasn't a scum on my wagon earlier (probably Wheat). And then there's how Blue's interactions around Id have felt weird all game, so... yeah, that still leads me to Id over Iso2 (also knowing that Huntzilla is probably the most mislynched player on this site right now and I don't have a great way to read him yet. His relative lack of activity is the thing that concerns me most because usually he is more active... and Bur's done very little and given Bur's experience level, I can see playing in a scum hydra (especially with Hunt) feeling challenging to know where to chime in)...
Long story short, I think you're right about sticking on Blue and I hope others come with. I feel very good about the scum team being within those four players, but I don't think it's the team you outlined. If not, then I'd think Tammy or Chris are probably being sneaksters, but I'm rejecting that paranoia at the moment.
Anyway I'd like to officially request no hasty action be taken until I have a chance to catch up, my content I think is suitably good for that request to be fair. I expect to be able to catch up this afternoon after work.
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When I made the bulk of my smaller posts earlier, I was posting from my phone at work; however, the post volume became entirely too large for me to keep up via phone when my mobile browser does not block ads, and Mister DC's post was entirely too large for me to dissect using a touchscreen. I took what I needed from it, and I did not see the need to substantiate beyond that. Whatever you are reading into my limited posting window of opportunity is incorrect, I assure you. ^^
Just pointing out that I've already responded to this.
Necarg being on V/LA makes no sense as a rebuttal; he still posted enough on his alt to have a large enough body of content to the point where your "fast and loose" claim is stupid. You mention that he plays fast and loose near the endgame: find me some posts because I'm still not seeing where his play looks anything like this game which means you're town with a horrible meta read or you're scum that's continuing to push this terrible point.
Level with me here, for a moment, please, Mister DC. You are hypothesizing that the bad guys are Mister Id/Miss Blue/Miss Scarlet, correct? Does that mean, then, that you believe that Miss Blue, as a bad guy, would go for a dual soft bus but then push someone else that nobody was convinced on instead of pushing the hard bus when there was sufficient data on the table to lynch both Mister Id AND Miss Scarlet? I know that you know I can read the flow of the game very well - so what on earth am I trying to gain, here, as a bad guy? If anything, as a bad guy, my vote would be parked on Mister Id right now.
That being said, I think I will concede the point on Mister Necarg's play differences to you. I believe my incorrecolletion (see what I did, there? ^^) was a result of reading the end parts of True Name Mafia with Mister Necarg's alignment in mind. While I believe it is entirely possible for him to have become more relaxed while wearing an evil goatee since he succeeded at first with it, I do believe you are correct that he feels a lot more relaxed, here, in retrospect.
Unvote
I will wait for Mister Sep's claim before I vote for Mister Id, though I would also be in favor of lynching Miss Scarlet. ^^
Monsieur Nacho, I take back what I said - you read it. But you obviously didn't understand it. I am not sure what I can make clearer about what I said, but if you wish to remove yourself from your high horse and consider for half a second that you may be wrong, then perhaps we can have a fruitful discussion about it. Otherwise, I have no more words for you.
I'd rather wait to talk about Wheat in depth until after he gets a chance to respond; there are parts of your case where I can see a possible town mindset for why Wheat's doing what he's doing and I'm not really interested in feeding him answers. I will say that his scum game in True Name and in Inflammable was a lot more image-conscious than his game here; one of the things I noticed about Wheat's scum game way back then is that he is pretty proactive about making plays to look good and True Name reaffirms that pretty solidly. His game here doesn't look like he's doing that.
I do miss the Wheat from earlier in the game, though.
I know that Hunt gets mislynched on this site before, but it seems like he gets mislynched for stupid reasons. He has a lot of conviction when he argues points, he has good depth in his thought process when he presents it and usually has weird theories about a ton of things happening in the game; making one rushed and lame catchup post and doing literally nothing else is not my expectation of town!Huntzilla. Rhand and Bur doing absolutely nothing reinforces this.
I don't think Id/Iso/Iso2 is the scumteam; the Iso behavior towards Id makes that unlikely in my mind. I was also okay with how he responded to pressure recently; yes his big diatribe on Day 1s was missing the point entirely and yes his posting still reads as pretty fake, but I thought the dive against Seppel looked good; I think Id as scum would play more transparently survivalistic; not sure he has the savvy to go for a towncred play which would be what that vote on Seppel would have to be since it sure as he isn't a viable wagon. I think Hunger would be a much stronger choice for third scum. Why do you think that he's town over Tammy or Chris?
Also @DC3, I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't scum on your wagon; it was a very very quick wagon and people just sort of ended up on it when they got here. The wagons that are more likely to have scum on them are the mislynches that have been on the table for days and days so scum has time to work their way onto them and seem like they have staying power.
Monsieur Nacho, I take back what I said - you read it. But you obviously didn't understand it. I am not sure what I can make clearer about what I said, but if you wish to remove yourself from your high horse and consider for half a second that you may be wrong, then perhaps we can have a fruitful discussion about it. Otherwise, I have no more words for you.
I could be wrong. I'm sorry for engendering a high horse attitude; that was never my intention and I would be far less inclined to push your wagon as hard as I am as opposed to talk about my problems with you if people not named DCIII were actually addressing my points and talking about my problems with you; my stubbornness in regards to you is more to make people think about you, still open to you possibly being town.
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You also said you found that point of mine dishonest but your read on me changed positively - so, what's up?
2nd point - I agree that Id is scum. I'm still dubious that you'd think it likely at that time that Id would be trying to bait you into saying something scummy, especially if you thought he knew who you were. I'd think that a more natural thought would be either that he actually thought what you did was scummy or that he was scum. He doesn't read like a baiting kind of player, he's too green for that, and you've played with him before, so the mindset would have to be that Iso, as Blue, thinks that Id knows who he is, and is trying to bait a reaction out of him by calling his first post scummy. I'm trying to decide if this is one of those "Iso and DCIII don't see eye to eye" points or if I should trust my gut on it.
3rd point - I was at L-3 when you chimed in. Tammy had previously unvoted and then Chris. But what was the actual purpose of giving your opinion there? Because what I took from that was that you liked Nacho's case, but the wagon felt quick, and you didn't like Seppel or Necarg's votes on it. But that neither supports nor opposes the wagon so why did you think it was time sensitive to express that opinion?
Where does your read on Wheat stand?
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
It's this thing called a joke. Have you heard of them? They're a delicacy in most places, apparently.
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True Name Mafia (Win),Clan Contest IX Mafia (Win), Bravely Default Mafia (Loss), BOTAS (loss), BfV (Loss), Ace Attourney (loss)
Rules Advisor before they were eradicated
This is your mod reminding you that you should always consume copious amounts of alcohol when watching Republican debates. Also JEB Bush thinks Dubya "kept us safe" even though the largest terrorist attack in our nation's history happened on his watch. The WTF'ery is strong with that dude.
I'm too drunk/angry for a vote count but one is coming tonight/tomorrow for sure.
~Your friendly neighborhood mod
Given that Mister Chris did not reveal his lack of knowledge of my identity until later on, I do not see how that is a relevant factor to this. For all intents and purposes, I came into the game assuming that every player knew that I was Mister Iso, and that Miss Scarlet was Mister Wheat. I know that in my hiatuses from MafiaScum, I have come back strongly remembering the details of my previous game on the site. If I am wrong for holding other people to my own standards, so be it.
I want to hold on to this for the purpose of reading you in the future, but given the Electron Cloud QT, I imagine it is more sporting of me to out this now, as it is something that would eventually need to be discussed there, anyway. So, I am under the impression that the more ludicrous your case sounds on me, the more likely you are to be town. (Of course, saying this now invalidates this, but it is something that I picked up on in this game.) I believe that you as a bad guy would know when you no longer have the footing on which to push an invalid point and would cede that, but as town, I believe that you are more inclined to follow your gut and continue the push when you have been proven wrong.
Well obviously it is the former and not the latter. ^^ At any rate, Mister Id has played before, though I do not know the extent of his game history; that being said, I do not think it is out of the realm of possibility for players who have not refined their playstyles to the degree that, for example, you or I have, to resort to tactics such as RVS baiting. It is certainly a tactic that I favored more frequently in my earlier days as a player. Anyway, apples and oranges, Mister DC!
I must not have been following along very carefully, then - the last thing I recalled prior to my post was someone stating that you were at L-1, and I do not remember seeing any unvotes from your wagon up to the point where I made my post. Had you claimed by then? Perhaps I am chronologically mixing events up.
I am not certain why you feel that stating that I would have voted you is not me expressing support of the wagon on you - rather, it seems the exact opposite, to me. I felt that it was time-sensitive because I thought that you were at L-1 and I wished to advise of intent to hammer if I was not satisfied with your claim and subsequent follow-up. (Clearly, I was. ^^) As for my dislike for the speed of your wagon and the voters, I thought that there was a good chance that you would be the lynch toDay, and wanted other players to look into my interpretation of the events as they unfolded. As stated, I am a firm believer that my opinion holds more value than anybody else's, and my track record indicates that I am particularly adept at sniffing out the votes that bad guys cast on lynch wagons.
Miss Scarlet is playing in such a manner that I believe her to be leaning towards being a bad guy in my worldview. Her recent interactions with Mister Id seem strange, and forced, and it feels as though she is not entirely focused on solving the game at present. I believe there was some earlier play of hers that had me scratching my head, as well, but I do not recall off-hand what it was.
Here's how today's events should go:
(1) Id claims passive or active -> (2) Seppel claims -> (3) we lynch Id
Actually, if we're all on board with (3), we can skip (1) and move right on to (2).
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Lets start with:
This is the reason for me being hesitant about whether or not it was brackets still. I wasnt sure if it was actually brackets or if there was just an error in the way dc posted. More to follow.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Outbreak
Generation B1: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
What limited time frame?
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Outbreak
Generation B1: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
I started in these forums way way back when i first started school. I had always used the site to look at the latest and greatest spoilers, but then eventually looked into the forums and saw all the fun i could have. I played MTG RPG in The coloseum forum.i tried my hand at a few pen and paper games that really just never took off. I tried playing a bit of other rpg . I also found the forum games section (which mafia used to be a subforum of...) i played the quick reply games and eventually headed over to mafia and signed up for a few games. I had aome stuff going on and got replaced in a few of my game, but the most memorable to me right now are southpark mafaia and left 4 dead mafia. These 2 games are really what caused me to start with my disclaimer. I was town in southpark mafia, i was actually satan. Which everyone assumed was mafia by meta. Then everyone realized satan was actually townish in the show. Then everyone thought i used satan as a "safe mafia claim." Anwyays we ended up ousting my lover who was sadam. I was suicidal and died as a result of his lynch. Looking back i guess it wasnt a bad death. But still left a bad d1 taste in my mouth since i was put in a l-2 position all based on something i did or said i believe even then in the RVS. Left 4 dead I was town roleblocker. I dont recall what happened but i ended up having to claim and claimed truthfully as a foolish noob that i was roleblocker. They decided roleblocker was a mafia ability and boom goes the lynching wagon. There was also another game where I was mafia, it had something to do with gods or some such, i dont recall that game so well, except that my mafia partner ousted himself in a gambit that actually got us pretty far towards victory.
Why is all of this important? Maybe it isnt to you, and claiming i hate d1 is enough to place traction down on me.
More to come.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Outbreak
Generation B1: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
During the investigation it was concluded that this sign was actually written by a perpetrator of the crime.
Was it an internal cry for help or an attempt to trick the investigators?
VOTE COUNT 1.4 (as of post 270)
blue_electric=Nachomamma8,DCIII,Sir Chris (L-4)
Id_Ego=Seppel, chilly_von_willy (L-4)
chilly_von_willy=necarg, scarlet_electric (L-5)
Iso_II=blue_electric, Tammy (L-5)
Necarg=Hunger (L-6)
Tammy=Tammy (L-6)
Not voting: Id_Ego
With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch. Deadline is September 25, 2015 @8pm Pacific Standard Time
~~~mod notes~~~
There's a new breakfast/brunch place that I'm finally going to check out today! Yay garlic fries!!!
In my zeal for garlic fries I made a minor error but it's fixed now! Thanks!
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Outbreak
Generation B1: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
@sep: I am active.
Now it's yourn turn.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Outbreak
Generation B1: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Outbreak
Generation B1: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
If not, why didn't you respond to anything else?
Clearly a trick. Otherwise the E's wouldn't have the exact same pattern to them.
Counter thought to a double vote is a hidden voter. But i am the only one not voting...
vote seppel
Just so we can clear that up.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Outbreak
Generation B1: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
Becasue i am posting from my phone and its hard to quote someone and keep reading without accidentally closing a window.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Outbreak
Generation B1: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Outbreak
Generation B1: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
meh...
This isn't part of any crime scene. It's just what the toilet looks like after you eat at Arby's.
VOTE COUNT 1.4 (as of post 270)
blue_electric=Nachomamma8,DCIII,Sir Chris (L-4)
Id_Ego=Seppel, chilly_von_willy (L-4)
chilly_von_willy=necarg, scarlet_electric (L-5)
Iso_II=blue_electric, Tammy (L-5)
Necarg=Hunger (L-6)
Tammy=Tammy (L-6)
Seppel=Id_Ego (L-6)
Not voting:
With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch. Deadline is September 25, 2015 @8pm Pacific Standard Time
~~~mod notes~~~
I've got
Georgiagarlic fries on my mind!!!@Mod plz look at this thx.
Check out my Newborder Peasant Cube here! http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/37467
True Name Mafia (Win),Clan Contest IX Mafia (Win), Bravely Default Mafia (Loss), BOTAS (loss), BfV (Loss), Ace Attourney (loss)
Rules Advisor before they were eradicated
Unvote, Vote: Id
Also bored in the Goddamn sort of way.
Vote Id
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True Name Mafia (Win),Clan Contest IX Mafia (Win), Bravely Default Mafia (Loss), BOTAS (loss), BfV (Loss), Ace Attourney (loss)
Rules Advisor before they were eradicated
I do not like my achievements going unnoticed.
Also, Mister Sep, correct me if I'm wrong - but did you just clear Mister Chilly for being a double voter when you just stated that we should stop clearing people for their claims?
I have been waiting for you to claim for some time, now.
Why would we lynch a good guy when we can lynch a bad guy, instead? ^^
-
@Mod: Why do you have me listed as voting for Mister Iso2? I am voting for Mister Necarg at present.
On that note, I would really, really like to lynch Mister Necarg for being on literally every major wagon he has been around to vote on, as well as Mister Id for the reasons I outlined to Mister DC. ^^
Id has a serious misunderstanding of the game if he thinks people are voting him because he hates day one. Newsflash bucko 80% of the people who play mafia hate day one. ~Percentage taken completely out of my ass btw~ There are very few people who thrive early game and way more of us who just hate and flail around waiting for flips to come. There's a reason I almost never die before night three.
Anyway, unless something spectacular happens I'd still rather lynch Id or Iso II today.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
I agree with this point about Blue, btw, I was thinking similarly about his last post.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Moving Outside to get some fresh air.
VOTE COUNT 1.5 (as of post 293)
Id_Ego=Seppel, chilly_von_willy, Scarlet_Electric, Necarg (L-2)
Blue_Electric=Nachomamma, DCIII, Sir Chris (L-4)
Necarg=Blue_Electric, Hunger (L-5)
Iso_II=Tammy (L-6)
Seppel=Id_Ego (L-6)
Tammy=Iso_II (L-6)
Not voting:
With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch. Deadline is September 25, 2015 @8pm Pacific Standard Time
~~~mod notes~~~
Curse you Curse!!! Shakes fist angrily. No fancy pants links because that's what was throwing me off.
Wheat is a read that is guided more significantly by gut than most of your other reads; you're right he should probably still be in the leaning town tier, but I just really like the way he's approaching the game, it feels really genuine. I'll pay closer attention to his later posts and see if I can't get something more concrete :/
To your Chris thoughts... If I was scum and I was in his position, I would move off the wagon 100% of the time. I don't particularly think he's scum so this point isn't particularly important for me to argue, but just something to think about if people start flipping town where they shouldn't flip town.
I don't see a need to "leave doors open to bus". If I want to bus, then I'm able to make a case on a player. If I can't make a case on a scumbuddy, then they are playing well enough where they don't need to be bussed. I'm also the type of town player with sudden suspicion appearing and disappearing, and thus am not really that concerned about outs when scum, but again, not really that relevant. I feel we're mostly on the ame page anyways.
---Iso2---
I remember someone saying that they actually liked the big catchup that is currently making me vomit blood, and I'd love to ask why. The only real stance they had beside "Tammy is scum because quickhammer" was...
1) Necarg is a wagoning machine that has watched space jam
2) Wheat can now ask them questions
3) Huh?
4) Chilly is scummy, then chilly is confirmed town for double voter
5) Id Ego is fencesitting
The only one of these things that isn't terrible or nothingness is the Id Ego point but bussing the weak point of the scumteam really isn't something that should get anyone townread. Seppel, what on god's green earth did you see in this post? I also thought Tammy's point that she might have seemed a decent against the grain target for scum not familiar with her was a good one; don't actually think anything she's posted is scummy but might seem a yummy target for scum because she hasn't done much and that horrible attack is scum trying to capitalize on a target like that even though they don't actually have any legitimate reasons for thinking what they think.
Will save my problems with blue for the other post I'm going to make. Id is the least likely scum out of the TRIFECTA so I'm unhappy we're lynching him today; I want a chance to look over Wheat/Chris/Hunger and again would much much much rather have Blue go down first because he is degrees scummier than Id (who could just be posting super awkwardly) for reasons I will get into in a moment.
1) To reiterate my position (since it's never been addressed), I thought that it was strange that you didn't acknowledge DCIII's big post when it came aka during your post before the Necarg vote post. I understand that you probably didn't have time to dissect it on a phone (this site is not kind to phone posters), but that doesn't mean you couldn't read or skim it or form some kind of opinion. As scum, I can see you not commenting on it because you wanted to leave your options open down the road, and I can see you as scum not wanting to take an immediate position or acknowledge you were familiar with the post because it did look very town and waiting would give you time to see if the town realized how town it was. I'm also nowhere close to believing your "oh DCIII makes bad pushes as town" tell is the reason you backed off if the reason you were pushing a case on him in the first place was because he was making a bad push. I'm also fairly confident that the big DCIII post also included the big push on Chris which additionally perfectly fits the towntell you're describing but you decided to keep plugging ahead... why, exactly? If you were still considering the post, why didn't you say as much instead of claim that you were waiting because you were uncomfortable with how the wagon formed?
2) Let's talk about that True Name comparison. The first warning flag for me was that Blue's True Name interpretation was completely different from DCIII's (DCIII said "serious, nervous", Blue said "fast and loose"). Let's look at a post:
Now maybe Necarg just improved like crazy in the later game but all posts on his gimmick account look like thi and are the farthest thing from "fast and loose" or from his ISO in this game, so explain please? Otherwise it seems far more likely you're using a shallow meta read to push one of the few viable mislynches left in the game.
3)
This exchange is terrible terrible terrible.
That's not at all what Chris said and that much should be obvious; this reads far more like a potshot than a valid line of thought.
I also would love if anyone could explain why id is a stronger scumread than blue because I'm not feeling so great about that read anymore; don't think an Iso-Id-Iso2 team is that comfortable with bussing where both just sort of toss him under and I find it really strange that neither player tried to even float Hunger suspicion if they are scum and he is town because he seems like a really juicy target for me and a possible way to derail id wagon/lynch someone else after id.
As far as Mister Necarg's posting style goes, I will point out that he was V/LA for the first part of the game - it was only towards the end (his posts that I actually remember) that were "fast and loose".
Did Iso_2 ever respond to me about what he meant by the underlined portion in one of my posts that he never actually underlined anything in?
So talk with me a bit. Wheat is playing all kind of scummy. I didn't like his push on Chilly or the way he described it, then he kind of clammed up about me entirely, probably because he realizes that's a dead end now - but he never corrected or changed that view, but he isn't doing anything with it. He also said he still liked his vote on Chilly after the double vote thing was exposed but very little detail or context around that chime in or why he thought that way when others weren't, and now he moves to Id after previously having beef with me for my read on Id and saying that Id seemed more newb than scum (which is what I'd say about Chilly, not Id). His world view is still convinced I'm scum (and I believe I picked apart that mindset earlier which is when he went quiet), but his reasoning for voting Id is because he's bored. Why would he be bored if a big scum read of his (me) is running around influencing the game. He's not taking issue with it, he's not updating that read, he's just letting it go and then jumping on some other wagons without much hubbub. Btw, you looked at True Name and picked up on the differences in Necarg's play - Wheat was scum with the two of us and hasn't raised any concern that Blue is pushing Necarg... which is something else that feels icky to me. And Blue's response to me about why Wheat feels scum actually seemed spot on - he doesn't feel like he's actually scum hunting despite it all.
So, what does that mean for Id? Probably nothing if Blue is also scum and although that's what I think the scum team most likely is, having a theory that's that exact doesn't seem overly great to count on. I don't disagree with what you and Tammy are saying about Iso2 - but I don't think Id, Blue, Iso2 is the scum team. I would be very surprised if there wasn't a scum on my wagon earlier (probably Wheat). And then there's how Blue's interactions around Id have felt weird all game, so... yeah, that still leads me to Id over Iso2 (also knowing that Huntzilla is probably the most mislynched player on this site right now and I don't have a great way to read him yet. His relative lack of activity is the thing that concerns me most because usually he is more active... and Bur's done very little and given Bur's experience level, I can see playing in a scum hydra (especially with Hunt) feeling challenging to know where to chime in)...
Long story short, I think you're right about sticking on Blue and I hope others come with. I feel very good about the scum team being within those four players, but I don't think it's the team you outlined. If not, then I'd think Tammy or Chris are probably being sneaksters, but I'm rejecting that paranoia at the moment.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Anyway I'd like to officially request no hasty action be taken until I have a chance to catch up, my content I think is suitably good for that request to be fair. I expect to be able to catch up this afternoon after work.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Just pointing out that I've already responded to this.
Necarg being on V/LA makes no sense as a rebuttal; he still posted enough on his alt to have a large enough body of content to the point where your "fast and loose" claim is stupid. You mention that he plays fast and loose near the endgame: find me some posts because I'm still not seeing where his play looks anything like this game which means you're town with a horrible meta read or you're scum that's continuing to push this terrible point.
Level with me here, for a moment, please, Mister DC. You are hypothesizing that the bad guys are Mister Id/Miss Blue/Miss Scarlet, correct? Does that mean, then, that you believe that Miss Blue, as a bad guy, would go for a dual soft bus but then push someone else that nobody was convinced on instead of pushing the hard bus when there was sufficient data on the table to lynch both Mister Id AND Miss Scarlet? I know that you know I can read the flow of the game very well - so what on earth am I trying to gain, here, as a bad guy? If anything, as a bad guy, my vote would be parked on Mister Id right now.
That being said, I think I will concede the point on Mister Necarg's play differences to you. I believe my incorrecolletion (see what I did, there? ^^) was a result of reading the end parts of True Name Mafia with Mister Necarg's alignment in mind. While I believe it is entirely possible for him to have become more relaxed while wearing an evil goatee since he succeeded at first with it, I do believe you are correct that he feels a lot more relaxed, here, in retrospect.
Unvote
I will wait for Mister Sep's claim before I vote for Mister Id, though I would also be in favor of lynching Miss Scarlet. ^^
I do miss the Wheat from earlier in the game, though.
I know that Hunt gets mislynched on this site before, but it seems like he gets mislynched for stupid reasons. He has a lot of conviction when he argues points, he has good depth in his thought process when he presents it and usually has weird theories about a ton of things happening in the game; making one rushed and lame catchup post and doing literally nothing else is not my expectation of town!Huntzilla. Rhand and Bur doing absolutely nothing reinforces this.
I don't think Id/Iso/Iso2 is the scumteam; the Iso behavior towards Id makes that unlikely in my mind. I was also okay with how he responded to pressure recently; yes his big diatribe on Day 1s was missing the point entirely and yes his posting still reads as pretty fake, but I thought the dive against Seppel looked good; I think Id as scum would play more transparently survivalistic; not sure he has the savvy to go for a towncred play which would be what that vote on Seppel would have to be since it sure as he isn't a viable wagon. I think Hunger would be a much stronger choice for third scum. Why do you think that he's town over Tammy or Chris?
I could be wrong. I'm sorry for engendering a high horse attitude; that was never my intention and I would be far less inclined to push your wagon as hard as I am as opposed to talk about my problems with you if people not named DCIII were actually addressing my points and talking about my problems with you; my stubbornness in regards to you is more to make people think about you, still open to you possibly being town.