MTG Salvation

Quote from Rhand »

Haha you remembered that Winterfell thing?
I was amazed people fell for that

The North remembers.

Quote from Rhand »

Fulcrum: do you really believe that town has to sell itself as town? Have you said this before?

Yes. I actually got run up once on this site for explaining that I did something deliberately to get townread. I was town.

I don't like your reads? It's concerning. Pretend I'm town. How do they change?

Your main problem with me seems to be that I "downplayed my scumread" of Vaimes in post 45. I've since clarified that I thought he was town at the point and decided to keeping pushing for a bit solely to see what popped up. Does that effect your view of me? Your other criticism was that I didn't put a lot detail into my reads in a phonepost, which seems like a ridiculous thing to go after. If you want more details on something now that I have a laptop, ask.

I don't like your vote on Ato either. I also had the impression that Cythare was more involved in the game, and lying about that as scum is pointless anyway.

@Chris: you got a townread on me for putting you on place 4 of my scumreads? That's odd. People don't usually engage people that low on their scumlists, so it's not like I'm picking a fight with you.

@Generic: I'm gonna use you to bounce my thoughts this game. What do you think of the above?

Exactly, Rhand! If you were scum you would have made up another name there. I am confident of that.

Quote from Generic »

Why don't you expand on your reads and update them anyway fulcrum now you have a laptop?

Why do you need someone to ask you to do that? You know I had issues with the lack of detail, you have heard rhand say similar. And you have this belief you need to prove yourself town in games, so here is your chance.

They haven't really changed much?

Hunt's a bit lower, Antny's much lower, Cythare, you and Sepiriel are a bit higher. I don't really feel like making a thousand word post dissecting the game, so I'd prefer to only go into detail on things that are confusing.

Game aside for a moment good lord what a compliment from you, Generic. A cross between yourself and Iso... geesh I don't know if I am prepared for that.

So I am reading some of fulcrum's posts and got to the one 'hah, he's been obvious town for more than a day now!" and I kind of just hit my buzzer for 'town' and rolled my eyes. It is such a town thing to do to have such conceit that you believe everyone followed you onto a lynch despite that clearly not being the case for everyone. I tend to view naked conceit like this as a town tell because scum usually are more cautious with how they approach a situation. It would be very, very ballsy for a scum fulcrum to try that BS and I don't know if fulcrum has that in their kit as scum. Literally, I've never seen fulcrum's scum game so I don't know.

So as scum she gave out her handbook for your perusal? Like, 'this is what I am doing good luck stopping it noted excellent player Generic'? That's pretty badass if she is scum and did that.

Well without knowing her meta I just go off my list of basic assumptions for a day one. I will sometimes miss a scum here or there doing it but I have a pretty high clearance rate of townies with this method. If she's a really clever scum player it is more likely she can do tricky things.

For example, you got onto me for making a 'look at me, I'm town' while you just did it yourself here. Makes you look a bit silly, and I don't think scum Generic is so careless. See look how easy it is to town read people, it's fun.

Generic I am curious did you follow my game in that 65 site championship thingy that I was in awhile ago?

Ah, a shame. I played a brilliant game, and I am not one to use that word lightly. Not just patting my back, there's a point: I find my method of town hunting to be extremely effective. I don't lose a lot of games due to my own mistakes if I am left to my own devices, and it is a rare scum that's able to come at me directly and win. To sum up what I want, keep going after fulcrum. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean it isn't useful. By forcing action we create conflict and in conflict the truth tends to bleed out of the walls. The game I mentioned was a fine example of me at my best, and would have provided context for how I like to play mafia with people I am not very familiar with (this game has a lot of unfamiliar faces to me.)

You seem more relaxed this game than I've seen in your scum games. You started to rip into me and then kind of realized I didn't actually call you scum and backed off. I think scum Generic plays it up because scum Generic knows that shying away from a town Chris looks terrible given the base Generic play style of 'roar'

As you should know, I have played a good amount of IRL mafia, but not in this forum. If you would like me to summarize those games, I would be happy to do so, although it's been about a month since my last mafia game and my memory does not serve me the best.

Also, on the deadline thing, we have two weeks until a no-lynch.

So many posts while I was trapped at work all day. Boo.

Quote from Necarg »

For me, it's like 5 in the morning and I'm super tired. However, it is getting harder and harder for me to find a scum. I have no idea currently on who would be scum.
Unvote
I'm going to wait until the situation gets clearer.

I take it this means you won't answer my question?

Sepiriel, I really don’t want us to start walling at each other. I don’t have the energy for it. I’ll try to respond to most of the post though. Not gonna bother quoting everything, too much of a pain. I’ll just do it in brackets:

[I get bored easily.] [I am not scum, nor have I been caught for anything.] [I’m going to say it again: the player placement is irrelevant because it’s fake. The end. I disagree RVS was long dead and rotting? Anyway, it sparked discussion, so I don’t care.] [Ugh, you’re going to be one of those players who sees literally everything I do as 100% scummy. What was opportunistic about it? I wasn’t trying to, like, ignore fulcrum’s pressure or anything. Just prompting discussion with someone else in addition.] [Yeah, I am pretty dismissive. It’s a town thing.] [Okay.] [It’s not? It’d be nice if you did something unprompted, though.] [Nope, actually forgot. Anyway, if you really want to know my role, go for it.] [I mean in general, not specific to this site.] [Okay.] [Shh, I’m trying to flaunt my super awesome role to annoy the scumteam.] [I feel like this game could use with a bit more quantity, but that’s just me.] [That would be impressive if I were! And it came to me so naturally.] [Cool, thanks for letting me know.] [All you need to know is that Bubble Buddy = an imaginary friend. It feels like I’m playing with imaginary friends. Not an insult, just a joke.]

Okay, that’s all of the parts directed at me.

Rhand’s Atog vote feels really Out There? I agree with whoever said that scum have no reason to lie about something that anyone can look up really easily. fake edit: oh, that was fulcrum. Rhand, is there anything else about Atoga that's pinging you?

Chris and Generic are having like, bro-time or something. I kind of glazed over it.


I'm going to pee if my fake readslist is like, even remotely accurate.

Quote from Generic »

Knew you better than what? You pulled a trick I did in the bull***** game I don't even consider counting for anything other than small pointers to things (meaning it was an imbalanced PoS)...

I have a single post to look at from you, it pinged a gut response.

Huh, I'm intrigued which game?

I don't like people blindly sheeping me. Agreeing with me I have no beef with, drawing the same conclusion off their own analysis is even better... So is your vote through your own read or is it through seeing where my vote was?

Look at the order of 184, I voted Fulcrum before I read any of your non-rvs posting.

Quote from Sir Chris »

I for one think half of my votes in my mafia career have been on some basis of OMGUS and the truth of the matter is their aim is more often than not true in finding scum.

I don't like standing on ceremony when it comes to discussing techniques and that whole conversation felt pretty useless.

You say this, and I find myself struggling to recall you OMGUSing in the past. Can you point me towards some past towngames when you have been so reactive?

Quote from Vaimes »

For the third time, Antny, I've played one game here (Witchhunt). <3

Sorry for making you go over this again. I was in Witchhunt but I don't remember you. Which makes me wonder if you were anywhere near as post happy in that game.

Quote from Vaimes »

Antny, fulcrum's been attacked (by scum :P) for scumreading inactive players even though she was totally right. Give it a minute

Hold up, what makes you think that Fulcrum is right in scumreading the inactives?

quote from="fulcrum »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/outside-magic/mafia/611603-bravely-default-mafia-day-1-on-the-precipice-of?comment=194"]

Quote from Antny223 »

59 - @Fulcrum - How many posts prior this one would you classify as cases? Please just give the post numbers.

...
None. They were pokes.[/quote]

You felt the need to poke a player to make a case on page 2???

Quote from Antny223 »

78 - Necarg/Sepriel/Fulcrum is my page 2 scumteam.

So, I have two scumsuspects, one that you think is town and one that you think is scum. And I vote for the one that you think is mafia. And you think this makes me mafia?[/quote]

You know, I was quite tired when I made this post, so give me a moment to check whether I said "Fulcrum is scum for scumreading Generic and Sepriel, while voting Sepriel", give me a sec...

Nope can't find it. It's almost as if instead of worrying why I was scumreading you, you tried to construct some sort of strawman to protect yourself.

Also, it's never too easy do wagon analysis.

Did you mean early, because if so, it is too early for wagon analyse. Sorry to correct you.

Quote from Antny223 »

So Fulcrum let's get this clear. You pushed wagon on someone obvtown for reactions. And you think guy who found you scummy enough to vote (i.e. Generic) is scum. Meanwhile your leanscum list is 3/4 inactive and 1/4 Sir Chris - while Necarg is null despite following onto this bad wagon. I'm going to forget Sepriel for the time being, I think it's likely Fulcrum and Necarg together. The third is still unknown.

Ok, one, I pushed on Vaimes because his initial burst of posts was scummy for him. When I changed my mind, I decided to get something out of the wagon and reactions instead of a single townread on Vaimes.
Two, I think Generic is scummy, not scum, because of the way he went after Vaimes and Necarg without really going after them. Like, when he claims to have been townreading Vaimes when he was actually egging on the wagon. It's weird, and I don't like it.
Three, I don't have a scum lean list. That's a null list, and the order of it is completely random. This has been explained multiple times and was a major point in the argument between Generic and me.[/quote]

First, scummy/scum is a petty distinction, which almost looks as though you want to leave wiggle room for when he flips town, which is a fairly scummy trait.
Two, the fact that everyone above Gen/Sep is townier on your list than I orginally thought is worse. It basically means that you kept the wagon going for reactions, and then worried about a single playing pushing this so called town wagon being scum on it. Which doesn't really work? You still haven't addressed why you didn't find Necarg scummy, when he did close to what Sep did that you found voteworthy.

simply won't be able to keep up. Hopefully once we past the excitement of the first few days it won't be a problem. But given I'm not the only player to have not posted anything of substance, that probably a sign that some people need to slow their posting.
[/quote]


I like the rest of the PbP post, however, I do not like the wording of the bolded section. It feels like you are telling us you know you will be alive for days so your absence won't be an issue. But you would only know you were going to still be around doing nothing for days if you were scum. [/quote]

"days" not "Days". There is a difference

Quote from Necarg »

For me, it's like 5 in the morning and I'm super tired. However, it is getting harder and harder for me to find a scum. I have no idea currently on who would be scum.
Unvote
I'm going to wait until the situation gets clearer.

What would help you get some reads?

I like Rhand's catchup.

Unvote
Vote Antny

Hey Antny. I saw that attempt to buddy Generic. You should talk about that.

I would if I knew what you were talking about.

As a side note, I'm always a little worried about Rhand's catchup posts because he faked stopping a little early to avoid something awkward in the first Winterfell game. Doubt he'd do it here, but still, I'm keeping an eye on that.

Your worried he might do something you'd recognise as scum behaviour because....

Quote from Generic »

Hey vaimes, her s a wacky idea... Let's see a REAL list! Enough game has passed to put one together, away you go.

I have townreads on you, fulcrum, Huntzilla, Atoga, and Ioran.

I have a bad habit of scumreading people who scumread me so I'm tabling Sepiriel for a while longer.

Necarg is just really bad and I'm not sure how to read him. He should probably be vigged at some point unless he steps it up.

Antny, I'm saying it's something that's happened before, and scumreading inactive people isn't inherently a Bad Thing.

Oh man, quoting that Antny post is going to be a pain.

Necarg: Your history isn't really important here. What you need to do is try to solve the game by poking people, questioning things, and trying to understand reactions. Quote a post. Say what you think about it.

Generic: I think that's my only mafia game on this site? It was a while ago, so it might not still be relevant.

Quote from Vaimes »

I'm going to pee if my fake readslist is like, even remotely accurate.

This kind of excitement over having correct fake!reads is something concrete that I've never seen scum!Vaimes do.

Quote from Antny223 »

Quote from fulcrum »

Quote from Antny223 »

59 - @Fulcrum - How many posts prior this one would you classify as cases? Please just give the post numbers.

...
None. They were pokes.

You felt the need to poke a player to make a case on page 2???

What? No, I felt like poking players to jumpstart the game on page 2.

Quote from Antny223 »

You know, I was quite tired when I made this post, so give me a moment to check whether I said "Fulcrum is scum for scumreading Generic and Sepriel, while voting Sepriel", give me a sec...

Nope can't find it. It's almost as if instead of worrying why I was scumreading you, you tried to construct some sort of strawman to protect yourself.

No, I'm saying your scumteam at that time did not make sense, for the reasons I stated. Can you address that reasoning? Saying "Oh, you're probably just bussing" or "I might be wrong about x" is fine, but don't just ignore the votelogic.

First, scummy/scum is a petty distinction, which almost looks as though you want to leave wiggle room for when he flips town, which is a fairly scummy trait.

It’s the most important distinction. Town players can be scummy. They cannot be scum. When I call someone scummy, it means what they’re doing looks bad, but leaves the door open for them to be bad town. When I call them likely scum, it means they’re likely scum.

Two, the fact that everyone above Gen/Sep is townier on your list than I orginally thought is worse. It basically means that you kept the wagon going for reactions, and then worried about a single playing pushing this so called town wagon being scum on it. Which doesn't really work? You still haven't addressed why you didn't find Necarg scummy, when he did close to what Sep did that you found voteworthy.

Again, what?

I kept the wagon going because I didn’t feel like posting and I wanted to see a couple reactions. Then, when I felt like I wasn’t getting anything else out of it and I confirmed that loran was scumreading Sepiriel for a good reason and not just rvsing, I looked back at the wagon to find the likely scum. I think it’s fairly unlikely that all three people who joined me on it are town.

I actually have addressed why I don’t find Necarg to be likely scum. He’s new, he doesn’t really know what he’s doing, and he’s an easy target. He’ll probably lynched down the line or become obvious town without my help. I’m going to try to coach him into being decent for a while, and maybe we’ll get somewhere in the next few days.

Sepiriel appears to be a better player and should know better than Necarg.

You seem to be really set on misinterpreting my posts in ways I do not believe you could have honestly come to.

Quote from Antny223 »

I like Rhand's catchup.

Why?

Quote from Antny223 »

70 - Generic, do you think my life would be easier if I just sheeped you this game?

106 - Generic, I thought you knew me better than that.

Buddy, buddy, buddy.

Generic, are you going to give a reason eventually?

You say this, and I find myself struggling to recall you OMGUSing in the past. Can you point me towards some past towngames when you have been so reactive?

XKCD and Celestial, off hand.

Quote from Cythare »

Quote from Sepiriel »

@cythare: i dislike your dislike, fulcrum posted how he was waiting for content from me but he had never directly asked for anything as such it was not for me to bring up content because there was no content to bring.

fulcrum posted how she was waiting for you to do something. I couldn't find her ask anything of you before today, just discussion about you. I find that asking for something to do tends to either come from a newer player or from scum, and you're not that new.

the point was fulcrum stated she was waiting for me, however the wording made it look liek we had interacted or i had pending stuff with her, which was not the case, so suddenly seeing her state she was also waiting for me as if it was such a big hold up for her was odd, since we have had no interactions i asked he what she wanted.

as for whether asking comes from newbies or scum i again disagree, if you see someone act like they have questions and pending from you but they dont, its obvious you ae going to ask them what they are on about.

Quote from Generic »

unvote,

Vote huntzilla

Naked votes are scumtastic. Got any reasons or are you testing my patience?

I am not liking Sir Chris at the moment. His posts are sounding off compared to the super townie Sir Chris I am used to, and it is getting to me.

I like Rhand for town. I can't see scum!rhand buddying up to Generic in the manner he is.

Still need more from Atog.

Cythare's answer puts him in my lean town pile.

That is two people now saying I sound 'off' for whatever reason, okay then.

Quote from Generic »

*if someone would endulge me.

No.

Ps analyzing players by comparison to prior games is lousy - a. Not every player has read those games, so the evidence isn't helpful to everyone and b. if players have played a lot of games they basically have an example for any type of behavior.

Stick to this game.

Speaking of which, sepiriel, are you going to ignore me any longer?

@loran: i addressed your post in my catch up albeit inderectly. Your point was that i was reaching too far and thats it, i disagree.

i think i was weĺl within reach to state that a player who provides a list by the 9nth post and then goes rvs happy based on that post once rvs is done, only to later on state the list was a joke once questioned to be waffling and it strentgthened my view of vaimes being scummy.

@vaimes: ill get to your reply later tonight because im phone posting and i think a post break down would be better than a paragraph response

Quote from Generic »

So far loran my memory of you in this game in s telling people what not to do. I'm figuring it's about time you actually start doing something. Cos so far you haven't given me any reason to see why you think laying down the laws of what is best for scum hunting has any value...

Show me the wagon you think will bag scum. Because you sure as hell seem to think you know optimum play.

Okay Generic, let's explain.
A. You don't get to tell people what to do.
B. If you don't understand why these things I'm complaining about are wrong, well, sucks for you.
C. I won't show you the "wagon". I will aim to show you scum. (PS It's Sepiriel)

Quote from Generic »

Oh, and P.S...

I will guarantee no one besides you will stick to this game when analysing people.

If this is still true in later days, we'll have a problem. Better we stop the problem now.

Quote from Sepiriel »

@loran: i addressed your post in my catch up albeit inderectly. Your point was that i was reaching too far and thats it, i disagree.

i think i was weĺl within reach to state that a player who provides a list by the 9nth post and then goes rvs happy based on that post once rvs is done, only to later on state the list was a joke once questioned to be waffling and it strentgthened my view of vaimes being scummy.

@vaimes: ill get to your reply later tonight because im phone posting and i think a post break down would be better than a paragraph response

Yeah, no. I'm keeping my vote where it is since you:
A. ignored my attack
B. continue to insist a scum list in a person's first vote wasn't a joke and are attacking someone for it.

@Generic: I know we play well as a tandem since Reaching Nerd, so as long as I don't have reason to think you're scum, I would like to use your feeback on my views.

Quote from loran16 »

Quote from Sepiriel »

@loran: i addressed your post in my catch up albeit inderectly. Your point was that i was reaching too far and thats it, i disagree.

i think i was weĺl within reach to state that a player who provides a list by the 9nth post and then goes rvs happy based on that post once rvs is done, only to later on state the list was a joke once questioned to be waffling and it strentgthened my view of vaimes being scummy.

@vaimes: ill get to your reply later tonight because im phone posting and i think a post break down would be better than a paragraph response

Yeah, no. I'm keeping my vote where it is since you:
A. ignored my attack
B. continue to insist a scum list in a person's first vote wasn't a joke and are attacking someone for it.

I dont really care about your point A.

Your point B baffles the mind, because:
1. That list was NOT provided with Vaimes first vote, in fact that list contained no vote he was already voting fulcrum at that time.
2. He then decided he 'was bored' (by his own admission) and decided to make a joke T/S list.
3. Checking the time stamps shows that there was no way Vaimes was actually bored.
4. He comes back to this JOKE list as a way to try to RVS vote people at post #40 when fulcrum was in heavy swing of her 'vaimes is scum' (which she later reveals to be a ploy because she thought Vaimes was obv town and was fetching for reactions a different can of worms and one Generic went into in more detail).
5. He doubles back on the list using the 'it was a joke list' defense because i was calling him on it, if you notice (although i did not at the time) the 'RVS vote to engage people' gives him a sort of excuse for dropping his vote on fulcrum even tho fulcrum was nailing him hard at the time for being scummy (again she later on states that she was just looking for reactions BUT the point here is that there was no way for Vaimes to know that, lest he can read her mind or has access to some form of outside communication).

Quote from Sepiriel »

Quote from loran16 »

Quote from Sepiriel »

@loran: i addressed your post in my catch up albeit inderectly. Your point was that i was reaching too far and thats it, i disagree.

i think i was weĺl within reach to state that a player who provides a list by the 9nth post and then goes rvs happy based on that post once rvs is done, only to later on state the list was a joke once questioned to be waffling and it strentgthened my view of vaimes being scummy.

@vaimes: ill get to your reply later tonight because im phone posting and i think a post break down would be better than a paragraph response

Yeah, no. I'm keeping my vote where it is since you:
A. ignored my attack
B. continue to insist a scum list in a person's first vote wasn't a joke and are attacking someone for it.

I dont really care about your point A.

Your point B baffles the mind, because:
1. That list was NOT provided with Vaimes first vote, in fact that list contained no vote he was already voting fulcrum at that time.
2. He then decided he 'was bored' (by his own admission) and decided to make a joke T/S list.
3. Checking the time stamps shows that there was no way Vaimes was actually bored.
4. He comes back to this JOKE list as a way to try to RVS vote people at post #40 when fulcrum was in heavy swing of her 'vaimes is scum' (which she later reveals to be a ploy because she thought Vaimes was obv town and was fetching for reactions a different can of worms and one Generic went into in more detail).
5. He doubles back on the list using the 'it was a joke list' defense because i was calling him on it, if you notice (although i did not at the time) the 'RVS vote to engage people' gives him a sort of excuse for dropping his vote on fulcrum even tho fulcrum was nailing him hard at the time for being scummy (again she later on states that she was just looking for reactions BUT the point here is that there was no way for Vaimes to know that, lest he can read her mind or has access to some form of outside communication).

While loran's recollection of events isn't accurate, I'm baffled by point #5.

Also the rest of the subpoints there except for #1.

What relevance do time stamps have to my state of mind??? People can get bored of something in seconds???

My vote on fulcrum was RVS??? I moved my vote because I didn't think her push on me was scummy???

Ugh, I forgot to refresh.

My last post is @ Sepiriel.

From 2 hours ago?

Quote from Cythare »

From 2 hours ago?

The irony here is that you were just asking me about the validity or use for time stamps.

My point with regards to the time stamp is that it shows its not like he was idle waiting for people to talk to he waz in the middle of a back and forth with fulcrum so for him to suddenly go "oh well im bored" seems a stretch at best.

You are underestimating Vaimes' ability to become bored.

Quote from Sepiriel »

Quote from Cythare »

From 2 hours ago?

The irony here is that you were just asking me about the validity or use for time stamps.

These are not the same things. You're attributing things to your read on him based on your own perception of how you would approach the game or who you are, and it's something that can't be proved (you can't prove that he wasn't bored, because you are not him, but he may also not be able to convince you he was bored).

My point of confusion with Vaimes is that his second post means that he opened up the page after you posted, walked away, then posted 2 hours later without checking the gamestate. I'm not sure what to make of it, but it could mean that he was trying to figure out how to respond. It could also just mean that he loaded the page and walked away.

Ok, so they are actually kind of the same thing from Vaimes's perspective, but my issue is what you're inferring from it.

v/la until Monday evening

I was on my phone, and the browser automatically refreshes when I open it (which I hate) but for some reason the new posts didn't show up until I refreshed manually.

Also, most forums warn you that new posts have shown up /before/ you post something.

But here my post showed up below Sepiriel's and then I refreshed and suddenly there were like five other posts between mine and theirs.

Generic, are you still asking people to vote Huntzilla Just Because?

Oddly enough yes, yes I am.

Nothing catching my eye.

Generic, give the case on Hunt already. Save us from these doldrums.

Not to be rude but it's pretty obvious Generic wanted reactions to that very specific type of situation where a case on Hunt wasn't given to see where everyone stood geesh stop spoiling things.

I know. But the time has passed, we all know and the game is stalling.

Quote from Sepiriel »

Quote from loran16 »

Quote from Sepiriel »

@loran: i addressed your post in my catch up albeit inderectly. Your point was that i was reaching too far and thats it, i disagree.

i think i was weĺl within reach to state that a player who provides a list by the 9nth post and then goes rvs happy based on that post once rvs is done, only to later on state the list was a joke once questioned to be waffling and it strentgthened my view of vaimes being scummy.

@vaimes: ill get to your reply later tonight because im phone posting and i think a post break down would be better than a paragraph response

Yeah, no. I'm keeping my vote where it is since you:
A. ignored my attack
B. continue to insist a scum list in a person's first vote wasn't a joke and are attacking someone for it.

I dont really care about your point A.

Your point B baffles the mind, because:
1. That list was NOT provided with Vaimes first vote, in fact that list contained no vote he was already voting fulcrum at that time.
2. He then decided he 'was bored' (by his own admission) and decided to make a joke T/S list.
3. Checking the time stamps shows that there was no way Vaimes was actually bored.
4. He comes back to this JOKE list as a way to try to RVS vote people at post #40 when fulcrum was in heavy swing of her 'vaimes is scum' (which she later reveals to be a ploy because she thought Vaimes was obv town and was fetching for reactions a different can of worms and one Generic went into in more detail).
5. He doubles back on the list using the 'it was a joke list' defense because i was calling him on it, if you notice (although i did not at the time) the 'RVS vote to engage people' gives him a sort of excuse for dropping his vote on fulcrum even tho fulcrum was nailing him hard at the time for being scummy (again she later on states that she was just looking for reactions BUT the point here is that there was no way for Vaimes to know that, lest he can read her mind or has access to some form of outside communication).

It was his second post, right after his random vote post (so yes I was off by a post). You really expect us to believe such a list could be anything but a joke? Baloney. And yes, clearly you can see his state of mind to find whether he was bored or not (given his inability to wait for other people to post before posting 4 more times, seems plenty plausible to me).

@Generic - good news! All of us have totally read Hunts' prior games to be able to tell when he's playing differently. Wait, no we haven't.

Quote from Cythare »

Quote from Sepiriel »

Quote from Cythare »

From 2 hours ago?

The irony here is that you were just asking me about the validity or use for time stamps.

These are not the same things. You're attributing things to your read on him based on your own perception of how you would approach the game or who you are, and it's something that can't be proved (you can't prove that he wasn't bored, because you are not him, but he may also not be able to convince you he was bored).

Hmmm how else was i supposed to to ******* try to come up with a conclusion then? i mean everything we do is based on perception, if you perceive my posts are scummy you will act on that, then i engage you in order to attempt to change that perspective.... yes i cant prove that he wasn't bored but at the same time i cant prove he was i can only work under the assumption that he wasnt because that is what my perception inferred based on his post...

My point of confusion with Vaimes is that his second post means that he opened up the page after you posted, walked away, then posted 2 hours later without checking the gamestate. I'm not sure what to make of it, but it could mean that he was trying to figure out how to respond. It could also just mean that he loaded the page and walked away.

Quote from Cythare »

Ok, so they are actually kind of the same thing from Vaimes's perspective, but my issue is what you're inferring from it.

My point was that in a series of arguments detailing the use or validity of time stamps to prove intent you are ironically questioning vaimes about his delay in response as based by the time stamp.

It is humorous to say the least.

Quote from loran16 »

Quote from Sepiriel »

Quote from loran16 »

Quote from Sepiriel »

@loran: i addressed your post in my catch up albeit inderectly. Your point was that i was reaching too far and thats it, i disagree.

i think i was weĺl within reach to state that a player who provides a list by the 9nth post and then goes rvs happy based on that post once rvs is done, only to later on state the list was a joke once questioned to be waffling and it strentgthened my view of vaimes being scummy.

@vaimes: ill get to your reply later tonight because im phone posting and i think a post break down would be better than a paragraph response

Yeah, no. I'm keeping my vote where it is since you:
A. ignored my attack
B. continue to insist a scum list in a person's first vote wasn't a joke and are attacking someone for it.

I dont really care about your point A.

Your point B baffles the mind, because:
1. That list was NOT provided with Vaimes first vote, in fact that list contained no vote he was already voting fulcrum at that time.
2. He then decided he 'was bored' (by his own admission) and decided to make a joke T/S list.
3. Checking the time stamps shows that there was no way Vaimes was actually bored.
4. He comes back to this JOKE list as a way to try to RVS vote people at post #40 when fulcrum was in heavy swing of her 'vaimes is scum' (which she later reveals to be a ploy because she thought Vaimes was obv town and was fetching for reactions a different can of worms and one Generic went into in more detail).
5. He doubles back on the list using the 'it was a joke list' defense because i was calling him on it, if you notice (although i did not at the time) the 'RVS vote to engage people' gives him a sort of excuse for dropping his vote on fulcrum even tho fulcrum was nailing him hard at the time for being scummy (again she later on states that she was just looking for reactions BUT the point here is that there was no way for Vaimes to know that, lest he can read her mind or has access to some form of outside communication).

It was his second post, right after his random vote post (so yes I was off by a post). You really expect us to believe such a list could be anything but a joke? Baloney.

You act as if you have never seen scum attempt to pass a t/s list as a joke or even to try to use a joke list as valid before. You are also acting as if you have never seen scum post lists relatively early in the game in order to appear townie (the argument that "well if you know thats a scummy thing to do why would he do it?" is bogus since actual townies also do that from time to time, that in and of itself is not the tell, its what he did afterwards that tells me otherwise).

And yes, clearly you can see his state of mind to find whether he was bored or not (given his inability to wait for other people to post before posting 4 more times, seems plenty plausible to me).

Plausible to you doesnt mean its the truth, to paraphrase cythare you cant prove he was bored, its just your perception.