The only problem with that is that most of the low-content players are town. I don't want to lynch dC until I know what's up with Seppel.
I miss the word 'likely' in this post.
@Meg: your reasoning on not lynching Seppel is bad. Look at what happened when Iso didn't get lynched when the wagon momentum got disrupted in Xyre's pope experiment. He never got wagoned again and won as scum.
If Seppel is scum, he needs to get lynched period.
I think you don't think what you just said you think because you just recently called me town, and what you just said you think is not something I would be doing as town?
I think I know what you are. Is your ability why you are at 20 vitality instead of 21? Is your ability "traditional" or does it have some sort of game-specific twist?
Ok, here's something cool: I thought about leaving those two lines out because they would do exactly what you called me out on doing. Unfortunately I had misread your first response to me, which ruined my chance of getting a good read out of you when I asked you to list the important points.
I figured a town DC3 would highlight the most important thing, but I thought you had dodged an answer to that. When I reread, I realized you hadn't ignored my request, so I had to push you in some other way -- goading.
I'm not sure what I was expecting, and I knew I could be inviting this attack. I think your attack is well thought out (and compared to your D1 posts is much better).
I AM using these as a scum-hunting tool; they're just not good ones.
Gun to my head I'd say DC3 is town, but I'd kick myself for being wrong.
DC3 keep talking with me.
Question re: the bolded: How is this not the classic "I agree with your case on me" scumtell?
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Seriously, I forget: Has there been an actual case on Seppel of any sort? Show it to me.
I think you knew I had a case out there on Seppel - especially since you've had an odd approach to me all game that seems intentional, liked one of my posts where, in part, I summarized what I felt was most important about my case on him, and just referenced another part of my case but snipped it out with the discrediting "blah, blah."
while DCIII actually has a good point in what I saw of his post
Case in point. He's acknowledging that DCIII had a "good point" when DCIII was casing him.
Quote from DCIII »
Also, in Deus Ex that's how I figured out that you weren't scum eventually.
Really? You re-evaluated me after the flip (and due to me outing myself):
Quote from DCIII »
Alright, so. I was wrong about Proph. Two man scum team + power of Dag's role means he wouldn't have CCed there.
Quote from DCIII »
Also, to be forthcoming, I figured out that Proph was Town toward the very end of Yesterday based on his posting style (last page or two) but felt like I needed to keep that read alive until after the Dag flip based on the way the game was flowing and how suspicion was likely to come my way.
This isn't really relevant, but every time I tried to engage with you in that game, you became even more tunneled on me.
Quote from DCIII »
You've seen me do it with Scarbo (incorrectly) and Karn (correctly) in Dinosaurs, too, and that's how I figured out which was scum... and, having seen me approach my scum reads this way, it is off to me that you'd still question why I was doing this with Seppel when we've previously discussed why I do it, especially when you think Seppel is scum.
I saw you do it to me in Deus Ex, too, and you were wrong there, so I'm just speaking from personal experience.
Quote from LnGrrrR »
@Proph, just because you don't see any point in my questions, doesn't mean there is one. And re: no man's land, let's see who the wagons are... Oh! Seppel and me. So unless I agree wit the Seppel wagon (and I don't right now), my only other option is to push one of my scumreads. This would be pretty obvious if you were actually trying to understand my mindset, which you aren't.
The problem is that you're not casing Karn or anything - you're sniping at him from the sidelines while everyone is ignoring you and going for either Seppel or you. It's the same behavior you repeated all throughout D1.
Quote from LnG »
Also, you ask me to "cite evidence" that your play has been fake when it's pretty obvious it's a vibe I have been getting, the reasons for which I have brought it up throughout the game.
Sniping from the sidelines.
Another problem I've seen from you is that I can't remember a big push you've made this game - nothing where you started a wagon and were actually convinced about it. You weakly pushed on Niv and Sir Karn D1 before hopping onto the killjoy wagon. You're weakly pushing on Sir Karn right now. Etc.
Quote from Karn »
I'm okay with a Seppel lynch even though he's not my #1.
The only problem with that is that most of the low-content players are town. I don't want to lynch dC until I know what's up with Seppel.
I miss the word 'likely' in this post.
Nah, I think they're town, so they're town. That's how it works.
Quote from Rhand »
@Meg: your reasoning on not lynching Seppel is bad. Look at what happened when Iso didn't get lynched when the wagon momentum got disrupted in Xyre's pope experiment. He never got wagoned again and won as scum.
If Seppel is scum, he needs to get lynched period.
This is pretty much what I argued RE: Killjoy on Day 1.
I'm town, I've already claimed (those of you who are reading everything know where it is), and I see Iso's scheme unfolding.
Unvote, vote Iso.
I'll explain later. Just got back from the con. But Iso's "how can you reconcile" is totally a fallacy in a question.
"Oh no, Iso's scheme to lynch who he thinks is scum is unfolding! Better OMGUS!"
There is no fallacy; you're approaching me as someone who doesn't genuinely believe I'm scum. I knew you would counter-vote me - do you know how? Because you're scum and a counter-vote here is not what townSeppel would do. It's a completely unnatural reaction to the pressure.
Ok, here's something cool: I thought about leaving those two lines out because they would do exactly what you called me out on doing. Unfortunately I had misread your first response to me, which ruined my chance of getting a good read out of you when I asked you to list the important points.
I figured a town DC3 would highlight the most important thing, but I thought you had dodged an answer to that. When I reread, I realized you hadn't ignored my request, so I had to push you in some other way -- goading.
I'm not sure what I was expecting, and I knew I could be inviting this attack. I think your attack is well thought out (and compared to your D1 posts is much better).
I AM using these as a scum-hunting tool; they're just not good ones.
Gun to my head I'd say DC3 is town, but I'd kick myself for being wrong.
DC3 keep talking with me.
Question re: the bolded: How is this not the classic "I agree with your case on me" scumtell?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Seppel mentioned that he claimed. I went back through his posts to jog my memory and saw that. I didn't think it had been addressed yet so I bumped it up.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I remember you making, on average, a post a day in Survival Horror. Your tone between this game and Survival Horror is completely off, while we're speaking of such things.
This is utterly false, and amazingly easily verified. There were sections in that game when I posted more frequently, but the vast majority of my posts in that game came 2 or even 3 days apart, which a simple search of my posts in that game shows.
Second - not only does that 'appeal to emotion' point look completely cribbed from DCIII, it's also a complete misrepresentation. Like I reply to DCIII below, I post like that all the time whenever I miss my posting schedule. It's the only polite thing to do in a team game that requires a time commitment, and it's something that can be easily verified just by checking any of my past games. So trying to paint the use of the word 'apologies' as some kind of appeal to emotion to achieve... what exactly again?... is misinformed at best, and yes, outright malicious at worst.
If I'm going to do a comprehensive case, I need to address the 'appeal to emotion point' regardless of its original source. Accuse me of "cribbing" all you want, but it's a point that needs to be brought up. The fact that I'm not the person who originally made it shouldn't even enter into the equation.
Uh huh. Way to not at all address the actual point, and instead choose the sidetrack to use as a strawman. No dice. You constructed or outright borrowed points based on false meta and attempted to use them against me - meta that you should know is inaccurate at best. Blatantly ignoring said point doesn't make it go away.
Third - I was vitriolic towards Seppel because I was legitimately pissed off. Duh. I'd love to know how you read 'scum-mindedness' into that. In fact, I want you to detail how in the world that was supposedly the case to you.
I read scum-mindedness into it because I haven't seen you express that degree of emotion in a mafia game before. You've always been very even-keeled, even when being wagoned. This is in stark contrast to here, where you and Seppel have been damn near coming to blows. From my admittedly outsider perspective, that reads like you have yourself under a lot of pressure and you're disappointed in yourself for not living up to your ideals of yourself. You yourself mentioned in "Second" that mafia is a "team game." Mafia is only a team game if you're scum, however -- if you're your town, it's much more selfish than that. So, what team are you part of that you have a commitment to, exactly?
Ah hah. And here you are outright trying to say that emotion is a scum tell for me. After previously having used language like 'wouldn't go so far as to call it a scum tell' - and, again, after you've very well seen me express that level of emotion and more in previous games with me. Who do you think you're kidding?
And Mafia is a team game regardless of which team you're on, unless you're an independent neutral of some sort. If you're town, and not playing like you're on a team, you're doing it wrong; and that's entirely why I refuse to play in league games, because I think the scoring makes it less about the team and more about yourself. So to my view, that latter point is utter and complete nonsense.
I spoiled all of the relevant quotes for concision, in their entirity so people can read full context if they wish. Note that they go from most recent -> oldest. LIkewise, I'm going to progress from most recent -> oldest in my evaluation.
-) Rezombied opinion:
rezombied seems more likely to be town. He's still done basically nothing of consequence, but his 'oh *****, don't hammer yet, I need to catch up' in response to what he thought was KJ being hammered doesn't make sense from mafia that knew KJ was town at all.
vs
But on this same page rezombied's 'oh ***** please don't hammer' just looks horrible.
Complete 180 on that.
This is completely obvious. I thought KJ was scum - therefore rezombied coming in and saying 'oh ***** don't hammer' looked utterly horrible. Now in the context that KJ was town, it makes absolutely no sense for a scum rezombied to come in and say that, when he would obviously know KJ was town. The above quote even details this same reasoning.
This 'point' doesn't even stand up to the most casual scrutiny.
'case'
'point'
You can cut out the subtle devaluations any time. It doesn't help you look any better -- in fact, it has the opposite effect.
Regarding Rezombied, in what world do you live in where scum!Rez wouldn't say something like "oh ***** don't hammer?" It was obvious to everyone that KJ was going to get lynched if only because everyone was sick of the day continuing endlessly. It would be actually free townpoints for scum!Rez to say something like that.
This I will actually concede, after seeing DCIII's point about it. I failed to consider that even if rezombied ended up stopping KJ's lynch with that post, the lynch would probably have defaulted to AI. So fair enough.
Easy enough to make that statement, huh? How are these supposed to be 'staged and insecure', hm? And I find it very interesting that basically your only statement on me vs. DCIII is to plaster an 'OMGUS' label on it... as though I hadn't already stated I found something off about DCIII on day 1.
Scum never bus, distance, or vote each other :eyeroll:.
This, however...
Again, brushing off the main point - which is that you slap 'staged and insecure' as labels on those posts without quantifying why they're supposed to be so in the slightest - and instead only addressing the other point. And with a ridiculously flippant response that barely addresses said point in the first place.
I'll reiterate my original point here that scum are less likely to replace out [when not under pressure, obviously] than town is, because they feel as if they owe it to their team to stick it out. Scum usually form a tighter bond with each other as a result of the sensation of "it's us vs the world." Unless your name is Iso, in which case it's "it's me vs the world."
dC displays a lot of self-consciousness throughout these sections. He knows that he isn't pulling his weight, but he defends himself -- viciously -- against those who attack him. I don't remember seeing this level of vehemence from dC ever before -- he's usually pretty calm and collected. I don't know that I would go so far as to say that emotion is a scumtell from him, but it's something that I think I should mention in case someone has more experience with dC than I do and can say with greater certainty.
That's a whole lot of fence-straddling language right there, for someone apparently confident enough that I'm scum to be voting me. You 'wouldn't go so far as to say that'... but you 'think you should mention it'. Riiiight. That's classic waving the thread and hoping someone else picks it up.
You 'not seeing this level of vehemence' from me before is also an utter lie, because you were in Ataghan and in Survival Horror, and you should have seen this 'vehemence' and worse from me multiple times over. Especially in Survival Horror, from my ongoing argument with Seppel for basically the whole of day 1. I refuse to believe you could have 'forgotten' that.
All I remember of Seppel in Survival Horror is that I was absolutely, 100% stake my life on it convinced that he was scum....and that I was wrong. My memory of you from Survival Horror was that you were fairly even-tempered and that you made a lot of dreadnought posts with a ton of quotes and questions. I remember that you actually applied yourself and were invested in the game.
More slanderous quotation marks. I can't even remember how long ago Survival Horror was, let alone minutiae from it. I have general impressions, and I go off of those when applying to the current game. Mafia may be the most important thing in your life, but it's not in mine. You can knock off the adhoms at any time.
Ah, so now we're claiming faulty memory. Fine, fair enough... except, you know, where basically 90% of your whole case is meta, and your meta is blatantly inaccurate.
You see, this is the whole problem I have with your case. It's almost completely a meta construct, and yet when I challenge you on the accuracy of your (very blatantly wrong) meta... your first instinct is neither to check said meta or to even halfway consider your stance again - but instead to defensively shore up your meta arguments with 'I don't remember'. 'I don't remember', yet you're pushing a case based entirely on what you remember from previous games. That's utterly laughable, and not a town mindset in the least. You're not trying to figure things out. You're pushing a krap logick case with everything you can throw at me.
Oh, and seriously, you think these are ad hominems? You're cute. Or, you know, plastic. Because I don't see how what I said could possibly have been taken as an 'ad hominem', and I think you're blatantly manufacturing that emotion.
Prophylaxis is continuing his vote analysis today, which I'm never had faith in and additionally been disgusted with since Voxxicus got me mislynched with his vote analysis - but despite town flips from both Killjoy and AI, his conclusions appear to have not changed in the slightest.
I don't doubt the veracity of his historical anecdote about being mislynched because of Voxx's analysis. What I don't like, though, is that he seemingly bases his entire read on Prophylaxis on this one item. I further dislike this overall trend of people coming out against the votecount analysis that Proph has been doing, and it makes question if there's a concerted scum attempt at discrediting it because Proph is on the track of something.
You seem very in love with Prophylaxis for some reason. And more than that, you seem so in love with him that you're rubbishing the actual point I had in there - that despite multiple flips, including Killjoy as town when the day 1 vote count analysis was ostensibly predicated on Killjoy being scum... his actual conclusions today appear to be exactly the same as his conclusions yesterday.
That strawman attempt wasn't very subtle.
I have a town read on Proph -- apparently one of the only people who does. Amusingly enough, Killjoy's alignment doesn't actually alter the votecount analysis much. Per my reads (and Proph's as well, it seems), most of the scum stayed away from that wagon. There's a few question marks and holes, but by and large not much -would- have changed. AI and Sir Chris were basically dead weight.
For someone who hates votecount analysis so much, you certainly seem to put a lot of stock in evaluating gamestate after just the Day 1 lynch for relevant data.
Sir Chris was 'basically dead weight'... and yet I seem to recall you tossing the point that maybe he was killed because he was suspicious of me. Uh huh. And if one of the top wagons for the day and the eventual lynch wagon flipping town doesn't affect the 'votecount analysis' much, when the one making said analysis was apparently sure said lynch was scum on day 1... I say there was something wrong with the vote analysis in the first place.
And that last bit? Completely apples and oranges. Evaluating game state on a new day is one thing, following ridiculous 'rules' like '5-man wagons on town must have scum on them' is utter rubbish. Trying to suggest the two are on the same level is disingenuous, and the way you did it just feels like slime-hurling.
-) Pushes Sir Chris, AI, and Killjoy all on D1 -- all three of which have flipped town.
This one re@Killjoy especially bothers me:
Question 2. Riddle me this. How in the world are you reading a town mindset into Killjoy's claim and the choices he was apparently intending to make? He has a vitality-destroying ability, that lowers a player's lifespan by a not insignificant amount over a few days... and his first thought is not to use this on someone he thinks is scum, but rather supposedly on one of his town reads. Because, apparently, he thinks that having their vitality hidden is enough of a benefit to scum to offset being effectively poisoned. Also note where he never appears to have considered the choice of just not using the ability, which is something I would have considered if I, as town truly thought that my ability would hurt town regardless on who I used it on, which would be the case if I had his role and actually thought hidden vitality was a real benefit to scum. That's why I never used my ability in Mostly Mute Monk, even when I could. This apparently has never crossed his mind.
I can't find the post now, but I am 100% certain that Killjoy specifically mentioned the possibility of not using his ability before dC posted this. dC either missed it or opted to neglect mentioning it.
Also, considering how much Megiddo's Vitality went nuts overnight, it's pretty obvious that 3 vit / night is meaningless to Meg. This reflects poorly on dC, because obviously KillJoy had actually considered the applications of his ability.
This one doesn't have any basis in fact or logic. First - I haven't actually gone back to look, but I'm pretty sure that he never said any such thing. And, in fact, he even said he was planning to use it on a town read.
The latter sentence there is even more laughable, because it's predicated on both mKilljoy somehow knowing exactly what Meg's vitality was going to be like. Killjoy outright said he didn't want to use his ability on his scum read Megiddo because 'he didn't want Meg's vitality to be hidden', so if you want to claim that he factored Megiddo's current vitality into 'the applications of his ability', then you're going to have to argue he somehow knew what Megiddo's vitality fluctuation would be like. And frankly, I don't even get how that's supposed to 'reflect poorly' on me, given that Killjoy outright said he was planning on hitting one of his town reads - not Megiddo - and which would shorten the lifespan of said townread perhaps quite drastically.
I wasn't going to use it on Meg. I'm currently scumreading him, and have been all game. Likely it'll be one of Rhand, DC3, or DK.
Is there a reason you want a townread to lose vitality?
I don't. But it's either that or let a scumread get his abilities hidden.
A third option is I just not use it at all to target anyone, but then I'm useless.
Good thing you prefaced your remark by ramming a fencepole up your ass in case it existed and you just missed it.
I did derp and misremembered that he was planning on targeting Megiddo -- I think that's because Megiddo was asking for KJ to use it on him and I got it mixed up in my head. I will defend my assertion that everyone knew that Meg's vitality gain was going to be like that, though. He started at like 6 vitality compared to everyone elses' 25+, and he specifically asked that nobody bother raising his vitality. Obviously it follows that he can handle that himself. That was public information.
I did in fact miss that, but upon checking, that came after he'd already claimed, said he was intending on using it on a town read instead of one of his scum reads, and was grilled about that by multiple people. So frankly even if I had seen that, it wouldn't have changed a thing - if he'd said that it one of his first few posts on the subject, fair enough, but by this point there's no way that could have been taken as evidence that he'd been considering it from the beginning.
And come off it. Without private information, there's no way anyone could have guessed that Megiddo's vitality was going to do that. He could have had anything - like a passive that prevented vitality loss from planes or whatever. Any number of possibilities existed, and trying to claim that 'it should have been obvious' is a blatant falsehood.
Oh, and you could be bothered to go and find this quote, I note.
It's ironic that someone at some point said he thought there was a concerted effort to get AI through the day, because right now I'm feeling there's a distinct effort to get Killjoy through the day. One that's reminding me a lot of Cyberspace Mafia, and how three out of RobRoy's four teammates apparently felt his extra kill (which he also tried to spin as a town ability and wanted to be left alive one night to use and 'prove himself') was worth falling all over themselves to attempt to keep him from being lynched. Of these, Rhand looks particularly bad, but I don't like the way Sir Chris and HookerPunch are responding either.
Except, you know, KillJoy and AI both flipped town.
And?
It was a nice fearmonger.
Uh huh. So everyone who said something about KJ v. AI on day 1 was 'fearmongering'? That's blatant rubbish. More slime-hurling.
I'm rather torn on AI. The most recent game I remember playing with him as scum was Survival Horror, and I thought I remembered him being dismissive and stonewalling there, but when I looked back at that game it was actually mostly the opposite. It doesn't change the fact that his play this game has been less than convincing, though. Eh.
I distinctly recall later posting that I was against the AI wagon. Cherry pick much?
Find it and quote it, don't just say that you think it exists.
...but you couldn't be bothered to go and find this one.
Again, I reiterate - you're not attempting to actually figure things out. You're just throwing whatever you can at me to try and paint me as scum.
I'm still wary of DCIII. His #694 instantly reminded me of his endgame case in the just-concluded CT3, which is why I asked if that kind of case was usual for him. (Interestingly, as far as I saw while skimming, Prophylaxis was the only person who responded to that question.) Then there's his long emotional spiel in #945, which, as I understand it, is rather out of character for him - and he just finished the aforementioned CT3, where blatant emotional fakery basically won the scum team the game. And then there's how in that same post, he says he's 'feeling better about AI due to interactions with Iso'... but in his latest post he appears to be right back on AI as scum, despite having not mentioned him again in between. And his scumreads in that post are the erratic brothers and the two leading wagons.
...so wait. Let me get this straight. Earlier you accuse me of OMGUS against DCIII... but here you seem to be suggesting DCIII is my scummate? What?
I say again: because scum never vote/distance/etc each other. Why is OMGUS necessarily just a townie reaction? I know that when I'm scum-aligned, I often have an omgus reaction to my teammates because I don't enjoy getting bussed. It's that whole pesky team mentality thing again. In my head, I don't feel like my teammates should be bussing me because, goddamnit, we're supposed to be a team. Us vs the world. Etc. I was unspeakably furious with Rhand when he bussed me unnecessarily in Winterfell. I understood why he did it later when I calmed down (although to this day I disagree with his call), but that didn't change the knee-jerk emotive response I had.
...I don't even know where to begin to respond to how blatantly wrong this is. Bussing happens, yes. But if you're suggesting I, as scum, called out scum!DCIII (totally not under scrutiny) on day 1, out of nowhere, quoting a just-finished game... I think you either need to get your head examined, or just plain swing.
Oh, and incidentally? That's a 'historical anecdote that doesn't necessarily apply to this game'. Nice to know you agree you're scummy.
1) Seppel interaction reeks of annoyed teammate.
2) Wrong about everyone who flipped N1: unlikely for someone of dC's skill. (aka: the not-an-idiot argument)
3) Uses historical anecdotes which don't necessarily apply to this game to attempt to guide opinions.
Bonus 4) Prophylaxis, can you check on this? I'm out of time to look back now, but I -think- that dC never actually voted for Chris, AI, or KillJoy despite having commented several times that he didn't like X / that Y was scummy etc. He voted DCIII twice, I believe, but never any of the three corpses. Can you confirm this since you have all the information handy courtesy of your vote analysis anyway?
Other than mostly being complete meta, let me illustrate just how poor all these points are:
1. No, it's just plain annoyed.
2. I'm distinctly sure I was right about AI. But other than how absolutely ridiculous the 'not-an-idiot' argument is... you were in Ataghan Mafia, as scum. Where I was town, and so utterly wrong about just about everything day 1 that I remember being outright surprised you lot killed me night 1 upon seeing the alignment spread in the spectator chat. You know very well that I can and have been just about totally wrong. I'm having a very hard time seeing how you can possibly have made this argument in any kind of honest fashion.
3. Uh huh. Obviously I thought they did apply, if I brought them up. Just like I thought, rightly, that they applied when I brought up the past in CT3. And you're being very oddly selective about this, given that Prophylaxis (who, again, you seem absolutely in love with) literally just did the exact same thing in his case against LnGrrrR. To, obviously, no complaint whatsoever from you.
1. So you say. I see it differently.
2. I hold you in high regard as a player, and the more experienced the player, the more unlikely it is for me to excuse being wrong about everything. I've been fooled by Iso too many times. Hell, you were voted to represent Salvation in the Crosstown games. I'm supposed to just turn a blind eye to that? If Seppel makes it to midgame after having been wrong about every single read he's put forth in the thread, am I supposed to think that he's just having a bad game, or that he's scum?
3. I have nothing to say about this. It may be bias from my reads. At best, it's very manipulating, conniving, and conversation-guiding. I don't remember Proph employing this, but I probably missed it -- I don't remember a case by him on LnG at all.
1. Wow. There really is no responding to that, is there?
2. You're really pushing the 'too good to be wrong' point there, aren't you? (And, I note, utterly ignoring that I was, in fact, right about AI.) But even disregarding how ridiculous that point always is, the reasoning you give right there illustrates why that point is particularly rubbish now. 'If Seppel makes it to midgame...'... but it's not midgame now, is it? It's Day 2. And you're trying to use me being wrong about two people on day 1 (a day I was barely around for the whole later half of, no less) as a justification for the 'too good to be wrong' point. Played your hand a bit too fast there, didn't you?
3. There it is again. 'I don't remember'. You could be bothered to scan Killjoy's posts, but not mine, and not Proph's, when he outright prefaced said post with 'case on LnGrrrR' - and it wasn't a short post, either. And you don't seem to have even attempted to consider this since then, either. There's no way this is an honest read.
Read these replies, people. There isn't a shred of a town mindset to be found here. Arian has a set conclusion he's trying to link everything to, and is using blatant deception and handwaving to attempt to do so.
------------------
Need to head out now, and will have to be out literally the whole of tomorrow, so the reply to DCIII will have to wait until then. But I want a reply to the below before then as well.
"She flew at them, pointed teeth parted, razor claws flailing. In the hazy darkness, only the sounds of slaughter gave proof of what Yblisa was doing to the Celestials. Finally, the stars above twinkled once more (for of course Yblisa had been feeding on their energy to empower her dark rage, and to grant herself the cover of darkness), and there was no sign of Voes or Yblisa - save the twisted corpses of the Celestials who had tried to claim her."
"How horrible."
...explain to me, Iso, how that lines up with 'unmarked'. Because if I go by the above, it looks more like it lines up with AI's death flavour rather than Sir Chris's. So tell me again how you know that Yblisa targeted Sir Chris?
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
"She flew at them, pointed teeth parted, razor claws flailing. In the hazy darkness, only the sounds of slaughter gave proof of what Yblisa was doing to the Celestials. Finally, the stars above twinkled once more (for of course Yblisa had been feeding on their energy to empower her dark rage, and to grant herself the cover of darkness), and there was no sign of Voes or Yblisa - save the twisted corpses of the Celestials who had tried to claim her."
"How horrible."
...explain to me, Iso, how that lines up with 'unmarked'. Because if I go by the above, it looks more like it lines up with AI's death flavour rather than Sir Chris's. So tell me again how you know that Yblisa targeted Sir Chris?
I understand that reading is hard, but if you look at the OP, it very clearly states: "Sir Chris, Demernae's Passion, found dead but unmarked Night 1."
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Seppel: So what happened to me being 'probably scum', then? Additionally, how do you reconcile this with your previous read toDay of me being 'leaning town'?
First off, reads can change all the time and you know it. Just because I think something at one point doesn't mean I have to think the same thing for the rest of the game. That's willful ignorance of new information and it'd make you a great politician.
But hey let's look at EVERYTHING I SAID ABOUT ISO'S ALIGNMENT TODAY, in chronological order:
Yeah. That's all. He was "leaning town" because I hadn't seen anything out of the ordinary, and then much later, after he started his dumb push on me, I don't feel good about Iso.
Now I'm not say it's aliens, but it's probably aliens.
Iso seriously how many times have you played with me and we were both town? I got ML'd in Amistaria 3 (the burning couch episode) but I was able to find like 3 scum simply based on my wagon alone.
Coincidentally it happened on D2 once I started getting aggressive on people and dropping hints about my ability.
The EXACT SAME THING is happening this game and Iso isn't even addressing this! And the 3 scum? Take a look:
Iso is scum being willfully ignorant, Hooker is scum voting me because he made up implications that I didn't want to move to Alway, and Rhand is scum for pushing the AI wagon and not coming over to the Killjoy wagon and then subsequently lying about dodged questions.
That's three scum right there.
Additionally, if I were scum, there'd have been a counter-wagon long before now.
Now I'm going to find the post where I claimed because I think I'm at L-2.
First off, I said I could sum up my ability in 12 words:
Pay 1 vit: Bodyguard higher vit target from kills and vit loss.
I'm Deltrese's Esophagus, my ability name is Dragonforce, and I paid 1 vit to protect Wildfire. I think my ability is pointless because it just means I'm going to die faster than everyone else for a random chance of bodyguarding someone, but I used it anyway in hope that I don't completely understand the vit system. I have to choose a target that has a higher vit after the payment of vit, which, while it can make the ability function on most players N1, the vit payment and higher vit restriction really feels arbitrary.
Without any other driving force here, my ability, at best, causes a 1 vit loss. At worst, you lose a Seppel.
Had a thought RE: Iso's plan:
Iso + LnG on Alway seems like a great combination. Llikeh teb dinos rep, enote gratlla ewfi. They'd both be unblockable, effectively Watched (so not really NK-able), and LnG would be able to Watch somebody else to boot.
If no better target for Iso's motivate comes up toDay, that's what I'd recommend.
I agree with this, although I would also suggest that LnG verify @Zindamod whether or not his illumination would show as different 'shades' for different instances of his ability.
Actually.
Isn't his ability just literally broken? Like, can't just say, okay, LnG targets (person). ToNight, everyone targets (person). And then if someone doesn't, we know who made the NK -- or, at worst case scenario, there would then be no NK that Night.
Additionally, if I were scum, there'd have been a counter-wagon long before now.
This bit is really forced. The image link is amusing but unnecessary.
Also curious why you chose to target Wildfire. Gut reaction to your ability (whose breadcrumb I completely missed) is that it's very odd to have that in the same game as DKing's Lightning Rod.
Also curious why you chose to target Wildfire. Gut reaction to your ability (whose breadcrumb I completely missed) is that it's very odd to have that in the same game as DKing's Lightning Rod.
I didn't make the roles. DK's probably scum anyway.
@Iso - You didn't really actually. Just that one post I quoted. But whatever, if it matters we can figure it out tomorrow because the Seppel wagon is happening toDay.
How was that one town post enough to change your opinion of Hooker? Also, the way you worded this it's like you were expecting Hooker to be town, why is that and why had you been calling her scum before this one post?
@DC3: If there's anything you'd like me to respond to in that post that would in any way change your mind about me, please let me know what is most important to you. Yes I really want you to do this.
The most important thing is the feeling that I get about the way you're playing. Like, even now, last I saw you had a scum lean on me - but you're approaching me very diplomatically here and kind of appealing to me to change my mind, like you aren't really suspicious of me and are more concerned with what I think of you, which doesn't seem very you, to me. I feel like you're humoring some people more than I'm used to seeing from you and a lot of your posts feel designed to look care free/indignant. I think you're concerned about appearing a certain way this game.
You couldn't be more wrong. I asked you to say what was most important because I wanted a better read on you. I want to know if you're dumb town (who I have a chance of convincing) versus scum (who I obviously can't convince). I don't want to go through the effort of trying to convince a scum to stop voting me. That's bonkers and I've done it way too many times. Most recently with AI(?) in Amistaria 3.
In other words, I care more about getting a read on you than trying to defend a case. So keep attacking me if you dare. Show me who you are.
A player asked me to rule on Seppel's breadcrumbed claim, which I did in PM - here it is so that there's no dispute on the topic:
Quote from zindabad »
The prohibition against crypto-claiming is subforum-wide, so I didn't feel the need to specifically enumerate it in the Celestial Mafia rules (although rule #3 does remind players "the Forum Rules apply in this game and in all games.")
I do not feel that Seppel's breadcrumbed quote qualifies as crypto-claiming. Hiding a breadcrumb in plaintext in a nested quote would surely be seen as acceptable. The modification that he performed on his claim (reversing it and changing the grouping of letters in an intelligible manner), for me, was within the boundaries of what is legal in the game of Mafia.
Whether it violates the spirit of crypto-claiming is a matter for debate, so I am allowing his action at the present time.
It only took two replies before I got somebody to misrep me!
unvote.
Vote: Seppel
Unvote
Vote Seppel
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Unvote. Vote Seppel.
Seppel (7) - HookerPunch, DCIII, Iso, KamikazeArchon, Sir Karn, Cythare, Arianrhiod
dkingsland (2) - Megiddo, Seppel
LnGrrrR (1) - Prophylaxis
Sir Karn (1) - LnGrrrR
Arianrhiod (1) - desCoures
Megiddo (1) - rezombied
With 18 alive, it's 10 to lynch or move.
At the end of the day, after the lynch, you will move to Alway Etteem.[/quote]
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
I miss the word 'likely' in this post.
@Meg: your reasoning on not lynching Seppel is bad. Look at what happened when Iso didn't get lynched when the wagon momentum got disrupted in Xyre's pope experiment. He never got wagoned again and won as scum.
If Seppel is scum, he needs to get lynched period.
dkingsland (2) - Megiddo, Seppel
LnGrrrR (1) - Prophylaxis
Sir Karn (1) - LnGrrrR
Arianrhiod (1) - desCoures
Megiddo (1) - rezombied
Not Voting:
hansanator
Hunger
Rhand
Wildfire393
dkingsland967
Let's hear from these guys on this.
Unvote, vote Iso.
I'll explain later. Just got back from the con. But Iso's "how can you reconcile" is totally a fallacy in a question.
Question re: the bolded: How is this not the classic "I agree with your case on me" scumtell?
I think you knew I had a case out there on Seppel - especially since you've had an odd approach to me all game that seems intentional, liked one of my posts where, in part, I summarized what I felt was most important about my case on him, and just referenced another part of my case but snipped it out with the discrediting "blah, blah."
This post doesn't feel honest.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Case in point. He's acknowledging that DCIII had a "good point" when DCIII was casing him.
Really? You re-evaluated me after the flip (and due to me outing myself):
This isn't really relevant, but every time I tried to engage with you in that game, you became even more tunneled on me.
I saw you do it to me in Deus Ex, too, and you were wrong there, so I'm just speaking from personal experience.
The problem is that you're not casing Karn or anything - you're sniping at him from the sidelines while everyone is ignoring you and going for either Seppel or you. It's the same behavior you repeated all throughout D1.
Sniping from the sidelines.
Another problem I've seen from you is that I can't remember a big push you've made this game - nothing where you started a wagon and were actually convinced about it. You weakly pushed on Niv and Sir Karn D1 before hopping onto the killjoy wagon. You're weakly pushing on Sir Karn right now. Etc.
/barn
Unvote, vote Seppel
Either way, we're all gonna burn
This makes me feel better about you after you suggested a lurker lynch.
Explain this on Day 3.
Nah, I think they're town, so they're town. That's how it works.
This is pretty much what I argued RE: Killjoy on Day 1.
I think you think I think we think that Rhand doesn't think that, but what do you think about that thought?
I laughed entirely too hard at this.
"Oh no, Iso's scheme to lynch who he thinks is scum is unfolding! Better OMGUS!"
There is no fallacy; you're approaching me as someone who doesn't genuinely believe I'm scum. I knew you would counter-vote me - do you know how? Because you're scum and a counter-vote here is not what townSeppel would do. It's a completely unnatural reaction to the pressure.
What made you decide to dig this up?
If Seppel flips scum, I want them BOTH dead.
I believe you mean " ".
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Explain how.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Seppel/dC's interactions each make the other look scummier with a scumflip.
Re: & @Arianrhod
This is utterly false, and amazingly easily verified. There were sections in that game when I posted more frequently, but the vast majority of my posts in that game came 2 or even 3 days apart, which a simple search of my posts in that game shows.
Uh huh. Way to not at all address the actual point, and instead choose the sidetrack to use as a strawman. No dice. You constructed or outright borrowed points based on false meta and attempted to use them against me - meta that you should know is inaccurate at best. Blatantly ignoring said point doesn't make it go away.
Ah hah. And here you are outright trying to say that emotion is a scum tell for me. After previously having used language like 'wouldn't go so far as to call it a scum tell' - and, again, after you've very well seen me express that level of emotion and more in previous games with me. Who do you think you're kidding?
And Mafia is a team game regardless of which team you're on, unless you're an independent neutral of some sort. If you're town, and not playing like you're on a team, you're doing it wrong; and that's entirely why I refuse to play in league games, because I think the scoring makes it less about the team and more about yourself. So to my view, that latter point is utter and complete nonsense.
This I will actually concede, after seeing DCIII's point about it. I failed to consider that even if rezombied ended up stopping KJ's lynch with that post, the lynch would probably have defaulted to AI. So fair enough.
This, however...
Again, brushing off the main point - which is that you slap 'staged and insecure' as labels on those posts without quantifying why they're supposed to be so in the slightest - and instead only addressing the other point. And with a ridiculously flippant response that barely addresses said point in the first place.
Get real.
Ah, so now we're claiming faulty memory. Fine, fair enough... except, you know, where basically 90% of your whole case is meta, and your meta is blatantly inaccurate.
You see, this is the whole problem I have with your case. It's almost completely a meta construct, and yet when I challenge you on the accuracy of your (very blatantly wrong) meta... your first instinct is neither to check said meta or to even halfway consider your stance again - but instead to defensively shore up your meta arguments with 'I don't remember'. 'I don't remember', yet you're pushing a case based entirely on what you remember from previous games. That's utterly laughable, and not a town mindset in the least. You're not trying to figure things out. You're pushing a krap logick case with everything you can throw at me.
Oh, and seriously, you think these are ad hominems? You're cute. Or, you know, plastic. Because I don't see how what I said could possibly have been taken as an 'ad hominem', and I think you're blatantly manufacturing that emotion.
Sir Chris was 'basically dead weight'... and yet I seem to recall you tossing the point that maybe he was killed because he was suspicious of me. Uh huh. And if one of the top wagons for the day and the eventual lynch wagon flipping town doesn't affect the 'votecount analysis' much, when the one making said analysis was apparently sure said lynch was scum on day 1... I say there was something wrong with the vote analysis in the first place.
And that last bit? Completely apples and oranges. Evaluating game state on a new day is one thing, following ridiculous 'rules' like '5-man wagons on town must have scum on them' is utter rubbish. Trying to suggest the two are on the same level is disingenuous, and the way you did it just feels like slime-hurling.
I did in fact miss that, but upon checking, that came after he'd already claimed, said he was intending on using it on a town read instead of one of his scum reads, and was grilled about that by multiple people. So frankly even if I had seen that, it wouldn't have changed a thing - if he'd said that it one of his first few posts on the subject, fair enough, but by this point there's no way that could have been taken as evidence that he'd been considering it from the beginning.
And come off it. Without private information, there's no way anyone could have guessed that Megiddo's vitality was going to do that. He could have had anything - like a passive that prevented vitality loss from planes or whatever. Any number of possibilities existed, and trying to claim that 'it should have been obvious' is a blatant falsehood.
Oh, and you could be bothered to go and find this quote, I note.
Uh huh. So everyone who said something about KJ v. AI on day 1 was 'fearmongering'? That's blatant rubbish. More slime-hurling.
...but you couldn't be bothered to go and find this one.
Again, I reiterate - you're not attempting to actually figure things out. You're just throwing whatever you can at me to try and paint me as scum.
...I don't even know where to begin to respond to how blatantly wrong this is. Bussing happens, yes. But if you're suggesting I, as scum, called out scum!DCIII (totally not under scrutiny) on day 1, out of nowhere, quoting a just-finished game... I think you either need to get your head examined, or just plain swing.
Oh, and incidentally? That's a 'historical anecdote that doesn't necessarily apply to this game'. Nice to know you agree you're scummy.
1. Wow. There really is no responding to that, is there?
2. You're really pushing the 'too good to be wrong' point there, aren't you? (And, I note, utterly ignoring that I was, in fact, right about AI.) But even disregarding how ridiculous that point always is, the reasoning you give right there illustrates why that point is particularly rubbish now. 'If Seppel makes it to midgame...'... but it's not midgame now, is it? It's Day 2. And you're trying to use me being wrong about two people on day 1 (a day I was barely around for the whole later half of, no less) as a justification for the 'too good to be wrong' point. Played your hand a bit too fast there, didn't you?
3. There it is again. 'I don't remember'. You could be bothered to scan Killjoy's posts, but not mine, and not Proph's, when he outright prefaced said post with 'case on LnGrrrR' - and it wasn't a short post, either. And you don't seem to have even attempted to consider this since then, either. There's no way this is an honest read.
Read these replies, people. There isn't a shred of a town mindset to be found here. Arian has a set conclusion he's trying to link everything to, and is using blatant deception and handwaving to attempt to do so.
------------------
Need to head out now, and will have to be out literally the whole of tomorrow, so the reply to DCIII will have to wait until then. But I want a reply to the below before then as well.
@Iso
The flavour of the kill?
...explain to me, Iso, how that lines up with 'unmarked'. Because if I go by the above, it looks more like it lines up with AI's death flavour rather than Sir Chris's. So tell me again how you know that Yblisa targeted Sir Chris?
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
People on Seppel, what do you think of this?
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That didn't really answer the "how".
I understand that reading is hard, but if you look at the OP, it very clearly states: "Sir Chris, Demernae's Passion, found dead but unmarked Night 1."
So...that's how that lines up with unmarked.
I think you should do it.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
It has occurred to me that I don't actually know who you think is scum and why - except maybe LnGr?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
First off, reads can change all the time and you know it. Just because I think something at one point doesn't mean I have to think the same thing for the rest of the game. That's willful ignorance of new information and it'd make you a great politician.
But hey let's look at EVERYTHING I SAID ABOUT ISO'S ALIGNMENT TODAY, in chronological order:
Yeah. That's all. He was "leaning town" because I hadn't seen anything out of the ordinary, and then much later, after he started his dumb push on me, I don't feel good about Iso.
Now I'm not say it's aliens, but it's probably aliens.
And then there's this:
The EXACT SAME THING is happening this game and Iso isn't even addressing this! And the 3 scum? Take a look:
^^^ These are the scum on my wagon.
Iso is scum being willfully ignorant, Hooker is scum voting me because he made up implications that I didn't want to move to Alway, and Rhand is scum for pushing the AI wagon and not coming over to the Killjoy wagon and then subsequently lying about dodged questions.
That's three scum right there.
Additionally, if I were scum, there'd have been a counter-wagon long before now.
Now I'm going to find the post where I claimed because I think I'm at L-2.
First off, I said I could sum up my ability in 12 words:
Pay 1 vit: Bodyguard higher vit target from kills and vit loss.
I'm Deltrese's Esophagus, my ability name is Dragonforce, and I paid 1 vit to protect Wildfire. I think my ability is pointless because it just means I'm going to die faster than everyone else for a random chance of bodyguarding someone, but I used it anyway in hope that I don't completely understand the vit system. I have to choose a target that has a higher vit after the payment of vit, which, while it can make the ability function on most players N1, the vit payment and higher vit restriction really feels arbitrary.
Without any other driving force here, my ability, at best, causes a 1 vit loss. At worst, you lose a Seppel.
Here's where I claimed:
Just read the bolded part backwards:
"If we all targeted one person, I'd be the kill."
I'm really surprised nobody saw that.
Further proof of my target:
And here's my first (second) post softclaim:
That's about it.
tl;dr: I'm an awful bodyguard variant. Iso, Hooker, and Rhand are scum.
Why did you target me? Did you miss the part where I softclaimed bulletproof yesterday?
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
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Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
This bit is really forced. The image link is amusing but unnecessary.
Also curious why you chose to target Wildfire. Gut reaction to your ability (whose breadcrumb I completely missed) is that it's very odd to have that in the same game as DKing's Lightning Rod.
@Iso: I explained all of that re@dC/Seppel in my dC case. It's there for the reading, I don't feel like reiterating it all right now.
I'd say this depends on whether DK's ability can stop the kill or not.
Currently Playing:
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Uh crap yes I did. :x
People misuse the subjunctive all the time!
I didn't make the roles. DK's probably scum anyway.
@Seppel
Can you give flavor for your claim, please?
And where does "Deltrese" show up on the OP?
Vote: Seppel
Seppel (9) - HookerPunch, DCIII, Iso, KamikazeArchon, Sir Karn, Cythare, Arianrhiod, Prophylaxis, Hunger
dkingsland (1) - Megiddo
Iso (1) - Seppel
Sir Karn (1) - LnGrrrR
Arianrhiod (1) - desCoures
Megiddo (1) - rezombied
With 18 alive, it's 10 to lynch or move.
At the end of the day, after the lynch, you will move to Alway Etteem.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
who hasn't checked in...
1m KamikazeArchon
1m Hunger
1m Sir Karn
3m Megiddo
6m Arianrhod
1h Iso
2h Prophylaxis
2h Wildfire
2h DCIII
3h LnGrrrR
3h hansanator
-----------------
4h dkingsland967
7h Cythare
8h desCoures
9h Rhand
15h HookerPunch
19h rezombied
But holy crap that's a lot of lurkers.
Just throwing that out there. I'm bearish on this wagon if that isn't clear.