If cantrip was pressed for time, I would expect him to be more apologetic as town instead of self defeatist scum.
While I don't disagree with that, you are leaving out the extenuating circumstance; he has soft-claimed a role that gives info on death. Depending on what it is, that could change the mindset you are using to gauge his alignment.
My judgment is that he isn't doing it as a play to survive as scum, it feels genuine and I believe he is town.
Well I just felt like with that claim, he could have an excuse to not die and then try in end game to clean up the scum disaster. I'll follow your lead if you have a better idea. I'm generally better with town reading then scum reading.
Given that we are talking about Cantrip here, I would be extremely surprised if this is just some kind of gambit. He is not that kind of player in my experience. Not even a little bit. Anyway.
That extension helps, but not by much. We're still nowhere near a lynch and half of the game thread has made a VLA for the next 3-4 days(meaning they'll return 1-2 days max before the deadline).
Meaningful progress needs to happen here. The 2 best suspects that we have currently are Fulcrum and Karn. I'm willing to lynch either, but prefer Karn. I'm not swayed by Niv's attitude toward Karn Day 1. And Karn's own behavior was pretty poor. He put meaningful effort into getting Generic lynched, but never voted him. He had his vote on Shockwave the entire time, but put much effort into actually making a case there. He has absolutely no involvement in the Antny wagon.
Early today, he used Seppel dying as a point against Shockwave, saying 'Shockwave said he wanted to kill Seppel, now Seppel is dead'. This feels much more like Karn killed Seppel and is trying to set Shockwave up to take the fall.
I don't think I want to lynch Fulcrum or Generic, but I'm running out of non-town reads, which means I need to re-evaluate some of the weaker reads (Hence Wheat and Karn focus).
I do agree that Cantrip isn't a good lynch for today given his soft claim.
I do want him to prove it or full claim at some point though.
Unvote ; Vote: Sir Karn
Subject to change after re-read, I just have this thing stuck in my head where Niv kept tacking Karn's name on like an afterthought. Like 'Oh, I better make sure to list one of my buddies as a possible scum' thing.
Karn: Let me put it this way. I think it's very likely there's been scum on my wagon. People who have been on my wagon include: Shockwave, Rhand, Generic, you, Voxx and now TK and Cyan.
Rhand and TK are town. Generic and Shockwave are probably town. I really want to lynch Cyan, but that's not happening toDay without a counterclaim. That leaves you and Voxx, and Voxx at least is likely to get shot if he's town.
So, I'm going to ask this one more time. Why did you vote for me?
And then you unvoted and voted Karn for points, making yourself the main wagon. Your best chance of avoiding a lynch was to keep pushing me, and you didn't ->town.
My plan of spending the evening dedicated to this game just got torpedoed by the fiancee wanting to go watch fireworks.
I'd rather put my head in a blander, for similar degree of pain (I have some ear issues), but she's doing a mix of the puppy dog eyes and an implied 'or else' glare.
And then you unvoted and voted Karn for points, making yourself the main wagon. Your best chance of avoiding a lynch was to keep pushing me, and you didn't ->town.
This is the most level 1 thinking I have seen in my life. Have you ever actually caught a scum?
I mean like, I don't think Generic is scum, but this seems much more like a 'how can I save face' line than an actual legitimate train of thought. For your sake, I really hope you're just lying here.
@WG: I'm reading you as town here, but I am currently only willing to vote 2 people, and I will be voting one of them. They are Karn and Fulcrum. You can decide which I should vote(for now). You can't pick anyone else and you can't pick 'no vote', or I'm revoking your privilege and going to frown at you alot.
My plan of spending the evening dedicated to this game just got torpedoed by the fiancee wanting to go watch fireworks.
I'd rather put my head in a blander, for similar degree of pain (I have some ear issues), but she's doing a mix of the puppy dog eyes and an implied 'or else' glare.
Women.
I hope you at least got laid out of the deal. That's my reward for doing stuff my wife wants to do but I don't.
@Cantrip: Do you gain more information the longer you're alive? If so, then there's only one obvious choice. If not, well, the choice get harder...
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She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
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And then you unvoted and voted Karn for points, making yourself the main wagon. Your best chance of avoiding a lynch was to keep pushing me, and you didn't ->town.
This is the most level 1 thinking I have seen in my life. Have you ever actually caught a scum?
I mean like, I don't think Generic is scum, but this seems much more like a 'how can I save face' line than an actual legitimate train of thought. For your sake, I really hope you're just lying here.
And you wonder why I think you're scum.
Generic's reversal was genuine. And no, I'm not going to explain what makes it genuine because it simply is.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
And then you unvoted and voted Karn for points, making yourself the main wagon. Your best chance of avoiding a lynch was to keep pushing me, and you didn't ->town.
This is the most level 1 thinking I have seen in my life. Have you ever actually caught a scum?
I mean like, I don't think Generic is scum, but this seems much more like a 'how can I save face' line than an actual legitimate train of thought. For your sake, I really hope you're just lying here.
@WG: I'm reading you as town here, but I am currently only willing to vote 2 people, and I will be voting one of them. They are Karn and Fulcrum. You can decide which I should vote(for now). You can't pick anyone else and you can't pick 'no vote', or I'm revoking your privilege and going to frown at you alot.
I pick which ever one of them has less votes at any given time because I don't think either of them is scum.
@Cantrip: Do you gain more information the longer you're alive? If so, then there's only one obvious choice. If not, well, the choice get harder...
No, I don't gain more information. I just might get different information or, possibly, no information. So if you're looking for a sure thing, now's more certain than later.
So I think Antny calling Cyan, Hans, and TK scum with no reasoning at the time makes it pretty likely that one of them is scum, though of course there is some strong WIFOM there.
Cyan isn't getting lynched without a CC.
Voxx has done nothing much since replacing in, busy in real life or not, so while there isn't anything I recall as overly scummy about his play at this juncture, I also don't have a town read on him. So mostly a not-town read leaning potential scum because of this Antny interaction.
TK has also done nothing, and his recent posts that pretty much just joke around and add nothing to the game aren't sitting right with me. I believe I had him as town based on Niv interactions, but I need to reread him and Niv. Will do that toDay, but I'm growing wary of his lack of effort and everyone writing him off as town. His vote on the Fulcrum wagon right now is a pretty good spot for scum to start trying to push through a town lynch if Fulcrum is indeed town. He follows the claimed doc and makes a safe vote on someone that a lot of people are suspicious of and I don't recall him adding any of his own insight toDay. Going to start reading him after this post.
Wheat - Calls Shock town for reasons, but doesn't give those reasons. I've been becoming progressively more wary of Wheat, I really don't like the "x is town" without any reasons type of play and he has done that for like 3 or 4 people. Someone that has played with him more, is this normal? In this game alone, he has shown the ability to think about things and question people, so it doesn't really add up to me that it's just his style, there seems to be two styles happening.
I like to see if any cages get rattled so I usually don't post reasoning unless I really wanted the player dead immediately. And if I really want that, I go back and make a full case.
And then I forget that I've never posted reasoning.
But I thought I did give reasons for Shock? Let me look...
Ah. I did not. Post 68 I said I would but didn't: He's trying to get town to figure out what they're gonna do when he flips, no matter what he flips. He was promoting thinking and getting mileage out of his death, while still accepting that he was gonna die. That's a townie mindset.
So you are towning him for one thing where he says the most blatantly obvious thing to say in that situation to buy town cred while getting pressure? That seems really weak.
@Cyan, you called out Fulcrum for, "1st level thinking," what do you think about Wheat's reasoning for town-reading Shock?
Hawk suggests I'm the safest lynch. I very much doubt he will get a majority agreement on that, but if you are toog to panic lynch someone on a compromise can you just get on with it cos I have effectively lost all enthusiasm for this game and several others.
My vote will be staying on karn, nobody has given a good reason as to how he is town.
My biggest reason for thinking he is town is the Niv interaction. Antny was getting wagon'd and in the midst of it, Niv had been pushing TK as certain scum, but then in the midst of the Antny wagon he switches to Karn because his initial misrep of you being cautious had been, "bothering him a lot," despite still thinking TK is scum. It totally reads like he was trying to divert attention from Antny to start something on Karn.
Also, in the game I was just in where Karn was scum, he tunneled on a single town the whole game. Here is jumping all over the place and not even trying. Small sample size and all, and I hate his effort in this game, but I'm reading him as town right now for it. I just think he is trying to avoid a NK.
OK, reread TK and Niv's interactions with him. Back to being pretty sure he is Town. Their back forth seemed genuine and Niv seemed legitimately miffed that TK was right for calling him scum, but under some weak reasoning.
That raises my scum read on Voxx a bit for being the mostly likely scum of Antny's scum pile.
It makes more sense to not vote if I need to hammer.
Right now we don't know who to lynch and you claimed VT. Cantrip said he has some info, cyan claimed doc.
I'm not worried about vox because if he is town, he is very useful. We also have enough of a lead to get a cop shot on him.
TK is useless but town based on Niv. I think killjoy would be a good lynch. Shockwave would be fine as well just for conflicting reads day 1 and 2. I'm also fine with a rhand lyn check because I can't read him very well and I've lost to him as scum but also have lost when we were both town. Also I think he had interactions with generic which could be useful.
I think karn is town because when we were masons recently, he had the same matter of fact town demeanor that he has right now.
We are almost out of time and need to make a decision.
So you think that..what? With a scumbuddy already clearly dying, hawk decided that would be a good time to run out a 'must hammer' gambit? I doubt it. Hawk shouldn't get too much longer to provide results for this 'let me hammer' request, but I don't think he is a good suspect for today.
Fulcrum is our best lead, by far, especially with the deadline being like 2 days away. I don't know why anyone would have an actual town read on him.
And cyan actually hasn't been reading any posts from me or about me, or he would know I'm a she.
Hawk: Why the **** are you waiting to hammer instead of voting for scum?
I don't notice/don't care about gender. But congrats on making a big deal out of nothing. And it's rich for you to attack me for not reading, while simultaneously not understanding why Hawk doesn't want to vote yet.
I'm not 100% clear on when the deadline is, but I know it's soon enough that, if you don't claim, you should assume that you're going to get lynched then. So if you want to spite the rest of us by refusing to claim, congratulations. Or you could just follow normal procedure.
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My judgment is that he isn't doing it as a play to survive as scum, it feels genuine and I believe he is town.
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That extension helps, but not by much. We're still nowhere near a lynch and half of the game thread has made a VLA for the next 3-4 days(meaning they'll return 1-2 days max before the deadline).
Meaningful progress needs to happen here. The 2 best suspects that we have currently are Fulcrum and Karn. I'm willing to lynch either, but prefer Karn. I'm not swayed by Niv's attitude toward Karn Day 1. And Karn's own behavior was pretty poor. He put meaningful effort into getting Generic lynched, but never voted him. He had his vote on Shockwave the entire time, but put much effort into actually making a case there. He has absolutely no involvement in the Antny wagon.
Early today, he used Seppel dying as a point against Shockwave, saying 'Shockwave said he wanted to kill Seppel, now Seppel is dead'. This feels much more like Karn killed Seppel and is trying to set Shockwave up to take the fall.
Will finish my Karn-and-Wheat read-through then.
I don't think I want to lynch Fulcrum or Generic, but I'm running out of non-town reads, which means I need to re-evaluate some of the weaker reads (Hence Wheat and Karn focus).
I do agree that Cantrip isn't a good lynch for today given his soft claim.
I do want him to prove it or full claim at some point though.
Unvote ; Vote: Sir Karn
Subject to change after re-read, I just have this thing stuck in my head where Niv kept tacking Karn's name on like an afterthought. Like 'Oh, I better make sure to list one of my buddies as a possible scum' thing.
Or do anything.
Being town doesn't give you a free pass to do nothing.
That would be answering Fulcrum's "why am I scum" question, which he clearly doesn't want to do.
WG, are you a member of the Illuminati?
@Cantrip: do you have flavor that explains how your ability only works when you die?
Yes.
I will take you to the fire
and show you the strength
of my singular
eye
....
Unvote Karn, Vote fulcrum
I had this assumption that it actually did.
Rhand and TK are town. Generic and Shockwave are probably town. I really want to lynch Cyan, but that's not happening toDay without a counterclaim. That leaves you and Voxx, and Voxx at least is likely to get shot if he's town.
So, I'm going to ask this one more time. Why did you vote for me?
I'd rather put my head in a blander, for similar degree of pain (I have some ear issues), but she's doing a mix of the puppy dog eyes and an implied 'or else' glare.
Women.
This is the most level 1 thinking I have seen in my life. Have you ever actually caught a scum?
I mean like, I don't think Generic is scum, but this seems much more like a 'how can I save face' line than an actual legitimate train of thought. For your sake, I really hope you're just lying here.
@WG: I'm reading you as town here, but I am currently only willing to vote 2 people, and I will be voting one of them. They are Karn and Fulcrum. You can decide which I should vote(for now). You can't pick anyone else and you can't pick 'no vote', or I'm revoking your privilege and going to frown at you alot.
But giving you the benefit of the doubt: no, I was given no flavor for why my ability only works when I die.
Why did you say you thought it was too soon for me to die (or whatever it was you said)?
I hope you at least got laid out of the deal. That's my reward for doing stuff my wife wants to do but I don't.
@Cantrip: Do you gain more information the longer you're alive? If so, then there's only one obvious choice. If not, well, the choice get harder...
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Because of how you crumbed your role earlier.
But now I am wondering if you're not simply an item-based scum rolecop.
And you wonder why I think you're scum.
Generic's reversal was genuine. And no, I'm not going to explain what makes it genuine because it simply is.
Your assumption is bad and you should feel bad.
Being town is a free pass to have all your ideas considered with strong weight and you've squandered it.
I pick which ever one of them has less votes at any given time because I don't think either of them is scum.
I see how you could arrive at that conclusion, but no, that's not the case.
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Says we need to lynch. Doesn't actually do anything to get a lynch.
Are you volunteering Hawk?
I think Generic is the safest lynch but I don't know if it's the correct one.
unvote
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So I think Antny calling Cyan, Hans, and TK scum with no reasoning at the time makes it pretty likely that one of them is scum, though of course there is some strong WIFOM there.
Cyan isn't getting lynched without a CC.
Voxx has done nothing much since replacing in, busy in real life or not, so while there isn't anything I recall as overly scummy about his play at this juncture, I also don't have a town read on him. So mostly a not-town read leaning potential scum because of this Antny interaction.
TK has also done nothing, and his recent posts that pretty much just joke around and add nothing to the game aren't sitting right with me. I believe I had him as town based on Niv interactions, but I need to reread him and Niv. Will do that toDay, but I'm growing wary of his lack of effort and everyone writing him off as town. His vote on the Fulcrum wagon right now is a pretty good spot for scum to start trying to push through a town lynch if Fulcrum is indeed town. He follows the claimed doc and makes a safe vote on someone that a lot of people are suspicious of and I don't recall him adding any of his own insight toDay. Going to start reading him after this post.
So you are towning him for one thing where he says the most blatantly obvious thing to say in that situation to buy town cred while getting pressure? That seems really weak.
@Cyan, you called out Fulcrum for, "1st level thinking," what do you think about Wheat's reasoning for town-reading Shock?
Umm...what the hell is this about?
I don't want to lynch Karn or Fulcrum I don't think.
@hawk - Not sure what you are up to toDay, but offering some sort of insight right now would be optimal.
Cyan (1): Killjoy
fulcrum (4): Shockwave07, Rhand, TK-421, Cyan
Generic (2): Sir Karn, Wheat_Grinder
Sir Karn (3): Generic, Voxxicus, fulcrum
Shockwave07 (1): Hunger
Not voting (2): Cantripmancer, 7hawk77
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to burn. The deadline is in 27 hours.
Also, in the game I was just in where Karn was scum, he tunneled on a single town the whole game. Here is jumping all over the place and not even trying. Small sample size and all, and I hate his effort in this game, but I'm reading him as town right now for it. I just think he is trying to avoid a NK.
That raises my scum read on Voxx a bit for being the mostly likely scum of Antny's scum pile.
Right now we don't know who to lynch and you claimed VT. Cantrip said he has some info, cyan claimed doc.
I'm not worried about vox because if he is town, he is very useful. We also have enough of a lead to get a cop shot on him.
TK is useless but town based on Niv. I think killjoy would be a good lynch. Shockwave would be fine as well just for conflicting reads day 1 and 2. I'm also fine with a rhand lyn check because I can't read him very well and I've lost to him as scum but also have lost when we were both town. Also I think he had interactions with generic which could be useful.
I think karn is town because when we were masons recently, he had the same matter of fact town demeanor that he has right now.
We are almost out of time and need to make a decision.
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So you think that..what? With a scumbuddy already clearly dying, hawk decided that would be a good time to run out a 'must hammer' gambit? I doubt it. Hawk shouldn't get too much longer to provide results for this 'let me hammer' request, but I don't think he is a good suspect for today.
Fulcrum is our best lead, by far, especially with the deadline being like 2 days away. I don't know why anyone would have an actual town read on him.
Hawk: Why the **** are you waiting to hammer instead of voting for scum?
I think it's more likely that he is scum than him losing the ability to read me.
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I don't notice/don't care about gender. But congrats on making a big deal out of nothing. And it's rich for you to attack me for not reading, while simultaneously not understanding why Hawk doesn't want to vote yet.