Sorry, I was unexpectedly in a location without internet all weekend, which messed me up on many levels. Catching up as I can throughout the day, but if you want to lynch me...like I said, it won't be a horrible thing.
I know I haven't posted much, but what I have posted has included multiple references to the potential benefit of me being vigged and or lynched, and me being ok with it. Why are you just now questioning it?
Hm, I remember you asking for a Dayvig, which we obviously don't have or it would've been used D1, so that seemed to me to be an empty statement.
I didn't recall you adcovating your own lynch.
Reading back, you indeed kind of did do so. But I also noticed something else that I missed when reading you again.
Can you make a T/S list of how your reads were end D1 and one for how they are now?
So...wait. First I over-explained my vote, and now I didn't explain it enough? Which is it, exactly?
And I assumed that your 'my scumreads defending me blahblah' line was referring to Voxx, because like..who else could it be referring to.
...
Stop twisting my words. You overexplained by including unnecessary language that actually says nothing.
So I overexplained by...underexplaining. Got it. Makes all of the sense in the world.
Or you're just completely clueless. It's definitely one of those two.
@Hunger: I'll lay out what I don't like about Karn, but I'm not going to explain to you why obvious-town-Shock is obviously town. If you don't see it already, I don't think I can really help with that.
ToDay, I'm pretty lost, as I haven't had much time to devote to either of my current games (technically, I'm still in a third, but I'm pretty sure Generic has completely written me off in that one). Voxx is posting much better than Hans, you're posting a bit better, although I still have questions (which need to wait until I catch up, or I'll inevitably end up asking something that's been answered). But I've mostly been skim-catching up when I can.
That's one reason why my lynch toDay wouldn't be horrible: you'd eliminate a lurker-question mark, which would be better early game than late. But there are two other reasons: one has to do with information my lynch would provide (and no, it wouldn't be dependent on read-interpretation or anything else uncertain), and the second one is timing. I have no guarantee that the aforementioned information will still be around/useful in future Days.
So I guess it boils down to: do you think that I'll be a positive enough influence later in the game to allow me to try to catch up in the next...what, five days before deadline? Or do you want to remove me as a ??? now? Normally, I'd fight against it no matter what, but, like I said, my lynch has definite benefits that, combined with my lack of time, make it not a horrible choice.
So...wait. First I over-explained my vote, and now I didn't explain it enough? Which is it, exactly?
And I assumed that your 'my scumreads defending me blahblah' line was referring to Voxx, because like..who else could it be referring to.
...
Stop twisting my words. You overexplained by including unnecessary language that actually says nothing.
So I overexplained by...underexplaining. Got it. Makes all of the sense in the world.
Or you're just completely clueless. It's definitely one of those two.
@Hunger: I'll lay out what I don't like about Karn, but I'm not going to explain to you why obvious-town-Shock is obviously town. If you don't see it already, I don't think I can really help with that.
Cyan: Was my reasoning in any way not clear? I pointed out exactly what was wrong with your vote and why it comes from a scum mindset. You responded by attempting to obscure the issue. Again, please die.
Of course your reasoning is not clear. I called you on it, you changed it. I called you on that, and you changed it again. It's not clear because you made something up and apparently just expected no one to notice. But that ship has sailed, so now what are you going to do? Pro-tip: Saying 'please die' over and over doesn't help anyone.
Somewhat relatedly, you replaced in for SNL right?
I said I didn't like your vote. You asked why. I said it was overexplained and the fifth on the wagon. You said it wasn't overexplained or underexplained. I showed how you used unnecessary language (which I call overexplained) which is indicative of scum. You then said over explained != under explained. What.
You're over explained fifth on the wagon Antny vote? I don't think so.
My scum reads defending me is a thing. Paranoia says placating me, next level of paranoia says Voxx would know not to do that, etc.
Rhand: There's no way in hell I'm claiming. Go hunt some actual scum.
Providing a 2 line explanation is not over explaining. Nor is it under-explaining in this case. It was a good amount of explanation for a 5th vote on someone in a relatively large game.
And if you honestly think that every time someone defends you it means they're scum, you're in for a short and bitter mafia career. Townies defend each other all of the time, for literally every reason imaginable. Everyone thinks that scum are just so quick to jump in and defend a townie. They're not, because it limits their lynch options, and it takes a huge amount of effort as scum to 'go back' on a town read later. Credibility is a scum's #1 weapon. Townies don't think about these things, they just say what they think, because they know their feelings are insincere(even when they are wrong). And Voxx definitely seems like his normal town-self this game.
I'm sad that Karn is not getting more attention. His vote on fulcrum was miserable, and his 'bad' response to me was even worse. It's time for me to look at his behavior from yesterday and see what I can find to make the rest of you realize that he is scum. Or maybe to make myself realize that he's not(really it's probably not this one).
"That kind of error is a huge scum red flag." - Says nothing, yet makes your post look more contenty.
Where did I say Wheat and Voxx defending me makes them scum?
First of all, you didn't say that you you didn't like my vote at all. You quoted it and voted me, which I inferred to mean that you didn't like it. But I did not ask you why you didn't like it. I didn't actually care why. It was a good vote and I know it was a good vote, and I responded accordingly. But initially you said absolutely nothing about what was wrong with it, which is not a point in your favor. When I called you out, you said 'You're over explained fifth on the wagon Antny vote? I don't think so.' Still no REAL explanation, but hey at least now you have committed that I over explained. I disagreed, and then you said '"That kind of error is a huge scum red flag." - Says nothing, yet makes your post look more contenty.' In essence, you are saying here that I over-explained by saying nothing. Which is completely ridiculous. I didn't need to provide a quote, because I directly referenced Hungyr's post, which was literally 5 posts before mine. But let's put aside for a second the fact that the accusation you made against me is actually FACTUALLY INCORRECT. You still first said that I overexplained. And then when pressed to clarify this, you said that actually I didn't explain anything. It can only be one way or the other. I thought that SNL was misguided town, but you are rapidly making me second guess that.
Oh my god what? This ***** is ridiculous. I've got some votes piling up on me for reasons that I have no idea of, and fulcrum joining the party for reasons that are A)incorrect and B)he can't even keep straight(in my estimation).
I WIFOM'ed with the scum and lost there. I have a limited # of uses(not telling how many uses), and I didn't think that they would target someone that obvious, so I didn't submit a protect.
Explain again how you read SNL as obv-town please. I reread him, and I really don't see it.
And I reread Niv's SNL mentions, and those do not point towards scum-town interaction.
Right, because when you're a doc worried about dying or being forced to claim the longer you're in the game, the first thing you do is take no action Night 1.
Rhand: The reliance on meta and the series of figuring it out posts before pushing for a lynch. Compare it to the overeager aggression in Porcelain Waltz.
Rhand: The reliance on meta and the series of figuring it out posts before pushing for a lynch. Compare it to the overeager aggression in Porcelain Waltz.
* He threw the meta read out of the window first chance he got. 'reliance' on meta?
* There is no 'series of figuring it out posts', unless you call 2 posts a 'series' and not reading my answer 'figuring it out'
* There was no overeager aggression in Porcelain Waltz
1. I'm talking about the meta read on Shockwave, though the meta read on you also qualifies as it only changed after you made what he viewed as scummy actions.
2. There were four actually, before he even put a vote down. Do I need to quote them?
3. I would ask if you'd actually read Porcelain Waltz, but we both know you have. And yeah, there was.
1. His Shockwave meta read and his Rhand meta read in his first post are contradictory: he says Shock looks town because he's different than Llama's but I look town because I vote Shock for the same reason as in Llama's. How can I vote Shock for the same reason if Shock is so different? His meta reads are bollocks and typical from scum who like to clear townies for the townpoints.
2. We're not talking about the number of posts he made in total. We're talking about the number of posts he made that helped him figure out the situation and that made him decide to vote me. That number is not 4. Not by far.
3. I was scum with him in Porcelain Waltz . I don't know what qualifies as 'overeager aggression' for you, but I'm not seeing it in Porcelain Waltz.
1. Those aren't contradictory? He thought Shock's nervousness was a good thing, but didn't have a problem with you viewing it as scummy because you'd done that before. I actually thought that worked in his favor, because he was actually thinking mindsets through instead of jumping on stuff.
2. You're restricting it to posts trying to figure out you, which isn't the point. I'm talking about posts trying to figure out the game as a whole.
3. Don't make me dig up posts from Porcelain Waltz, man. The jumps on killjoy, MafiaSSK, the hydra and me there illustrate my point.
Just getting back into things. I see the claim up and given how Hayate and Marvel Madness 2 (at least the part I was involved in... Pre lynch) I want to get this right.
1. But how can Shock's nervousness be good if I correctly voted scum!Shock for it in Llama's? That makes no sense?
2. If he's figuring out the game, then why isn't he reading it? And why does he keep voting me when it's pointed out to him that I did answer his question?
3. I reread his KillJoy vote. I don't see how that is more 'overeager aggressive' than his Rhand vote here. Also, Day 2 starts very similar: compare #342 here to #112 there.
I don't think this conversation will get us anywhere. You won't convince me that your huge SNL townread is actually based on something, and you won't get me away from my SNL scumread.
I can't wrap my head around the idea that someone can have a sure townread on the only guy in the game that I have a sure scumread on. That's just insane.
Fulcrum is at 5 or 6 votes(it was 4 as of the last vote count, but I don't know if one of those 4 unvoted him to vote me between now and then). Pretty sure it's 6. Someone should unvote him so that he doesn't get lynched on accident, especially since it's his turn to claim and I'm certainly eagerly awaiting that. I really was reading SNL as misguided town based on his late posts toward Antny, but Fulcrum is very much challenging my convictions here.
Just getting back into things. I see the claim up and given how Hayate and Marvel Madness 2 (at least the part I was involved in... Pre lynch) I want to get this right.
Catching up.
Looking at Wiki about the claim, is it the amorality of the character that gives you pause?
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She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
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Kill shot: BB
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Fulcrum did say she was ok with replacing in as scum to try and dig her way out of this situation.
I need to figure out if fulcrum is just pushing cyan to try and do anything to play to win.
Uh, no.
I'm so incredibly sick of scum claiming a doc or some variant, and getting out of the lynch because the real doc somehow thinks their indentity is too important to trade for a scum death. It feels like it's happened every other game. Unless Cyan's a one-shot (which, what?) I can't understand why he would chose to no action. Further, if Seppel was such an obvious kill, then the scumteam are either reckless and didn't care about a protect or had information (probably based on their own role pms) that suggests there is no doc.
And hey, if I'm wrong, all the suspicion on Cyan makes him less likely to get shot.
I see the Seppel death as a scumteam that doesn't really know what it's doing.
OR a scumteam that did second level thinking and deduced that town wasn't going to protect or watch Seppel because scumteams don't N1-kill Seppel.
Well, yeah, that's the only likely explanation if Cyan is town. It's not particularly helpful either because implicates both new and experienced players, so bleh. Still doesn't explain why Cyan would no action.
So I have a problem with can trips claim. He basically said that if he dies it's bad for the scum which means he will stick around. We really need him vigged.
vote Cantripmancer
I didn't recall you adcovating your own lynch.
Reading back, you indeed kind of did do so. But I also noticed something else that I missed when reading you again.
Can you make a T/S list of how your reads were end D1 and one for how they are now?
unvote
So I overexplained by...underexplaining. Got it. Makes all of the sense in the world.
Or you're just completely clueless. It's definitely one of those two.
@Hunger: I'll lay out what I don't like about Karn, but I'm not going to explain to you why obvious-town-Shock is obviously town. If you don't see it already, I don't think I can really help with that.
Town
Wheat_Grinder - For leading the charge on Antny.
Sir Karn
Hunger
fulcrum (SelesnyaNewLife)
7hawk77
Killjoy
Seppel
Shockwave07
Cyan
Generic
TK-421
Niv
Voxxicus (hansanator)
Rhand
Scum
ToDay, I'm pretty lost, as I haven't had much time to devote to either of my current games (technically, I'm still in a third, but I'm pretty sure Generic has completely written me off in that one). Voxx is posting much better than Hans, you're posting a bit better, although I still have questions (which need to wait until I catch up, or I'll inevitably end up asking something that's been answered). But I've mostly been skim-catching up when I can.
That's one reason why my lynch toDay wouldn't be horrible: you'd eliminate a lurker-question mark, which would be better early game than late. But there are two other reasons: one has to do with information my lynch would provide (and no, it wouldn't be dependent on read-interpretation or anything else uncertain), and the second one is timing. I have no guarantee that the aforementioned information will still be around/useful in future Days.
So I guess it boils down to: do you think that I'll be a positive enough influence later in the game to allow me to try to catch up in the next...what, five days before deadline? Or do you want to remove me as a ??? now? Normally, I'd fight against it no matter what, but, like I said, my lynch has definite benefits that, combined with my lack of time, make it not a horrible choice.
2. Voxx is on another townie.
3.
Please die.
I need to go back and check exactly when CM started on his 'just kill me' campaign yesterday.
Anyway. Working on Karn now.
If my conclusions are correct, then it's way too early for you to die.
Somewhat relatedly, you replaced in for SNL right?
First of all, you didn't say that you you didn't like my vote at all. You quoted it and voted me, which I inferred to mean that you didn't like it. But I did not ask you why you didn't like it. I didn't actually care why. It was a good vote and I know it was a good vote, and I responded accordingly. But initially you said absolutely nothing about what was wrong with it, which is not a point in your favor. When I called you out, you said 'You're over explained fifth on the wagon Antny vote? I don't think so.' Still no REAL explanation, but hey at least now you have committed that I over explained. I disagreed, and then you said '"That kind of error is a huge scum red flag." - Says nothing, yet makes your post look more contenty.' In essence, you are saying here that I over-explained by saying nothing. Which is completely ridiculous. I didn't need to provide a quote, because I directly referenced Hungyr's post, which was literally 5 posts before mine. But let's put aside for a second the fact that the accusation you made against me is actually FACTUALLY INCORRECT. You still first said that I overexplained. And then when pressed to clarify this, you said that actually I didn't explain anything. It can only be one way or the other. I thought that SNL was misguided town, but you are rapidly making me second guess that.
but it's only in your estimation
this is why we're lynching cyan
No, you're really not.
Vote: Cyan
I'm Krieger, and I'm the Doc. My rolename is technically Quack, and I have a # of potions that I can use that prevent someone from being NKed.
Vote Fulcrum
Explain again how you read SNL as obv-town please. I reread him, and I really don't see it.
And I reread Niv's SNL mentions, and those do not point towards scum-town interaction.
Please no counterclaims just yet.
@Cyan: Is your ability item-based?
Reading is tech
Rhand: The reliance on meta and the series of figuring it out posts before pushing for a lynch. Compare it to the overeager aggression in Porcelain Waltz.
* He threw the meta read out of the window first chance he got. 'reliance' on meta?
* There is no 'series of figuring it out posts', unless you call 2 posts a 'series' and not reading my answer 'figuring it out'
* There was no overeager aggression in Porcelain Waltz
2. There were four actually, before he even put a vote down. Do I need to quote them?
3. I would ask if you'd actually read Porcelain Waltz, but we both know you have. And yeah, there was.
2. We're not talking about the number of posts he made in total. We're talking about the number of posts he made that helped him figure out the situation and that made him decide to vote me. That number is not 4. Not by far.
3. I was scum with him in Porcelain Waltz . I don't know what qualifies as 'overeager aggression' for you, but I'm not seeing it in Porcelain Waltz.
2. You're restricting it to posts trying to figure out you, which isn't the point. I'm talking about posts trying to figure out the game as a whole.
3. Don't make me dig up posts from Porcelain Waltz, man. The jumps on killjoy, MafiaSSK, the hydra and me there illustrate my point.
Just getting back into things. I see the claim up and given how Hayate and Marvel Madness 2 (at least the part I was involved in... Pre lynch) I want to get this right.
Catching up.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
2. If he's figuring out the game, then why isn't he reading it? And why does he keep voting me when it's pointed out to him that I did answer his question?
3. I reread his KillJoy vote. I don't see how that is more 'overeager aggressive' than his Rhand vote here. Also, Day 2 starts very similar: compare #342 here to #112 there.
I don't think this conversation will get us anywhere. You won't convince me that your huge SNL townread is actually based on something, and you won't get me away from my SNL scumread.
I can't wrap my head around the idea that someone can have a sure townread on the only guy in the game that I have a sure scumread on. That's just insane.
(last votecount: Shock - Generic - Rhand - Karn)
Looking at Wiki about the claim, is it the amorality of the character that gives you pause?
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
I need to figure out if fulcrum is just pushing cyan to try and do anything to play to win.
Outdated Mafia Stats
Ahhhh my mistake. Disregard,
Uh, no.
I'm so incredibly sick of scum claiming a doc or some variant, and getting out of the lynch because the real doc somehow thinks their indentity is too important to trade for a scum death. It feels like it's happened every other game. Unless Cyan's a one-shot (which, what?) I can't understand why he would chose to no action. Further, if Seppel was such an obvious kill, then the scumteam are either reckless and didn't care about a protect or had information (probably based on their own role pms) that suggests there is no doc.
And hey, if I'm wrong, all the suspicion on Cyan makes him less likely to get shot.
OR a scumteam that did second level thinking and deduced that town wasn't going to protect or watch Seppel because scumteams don't N1-kill Seppel.
I do like my vote more and more now. You failing to see the pro-town side of not using the X-shot doc N1 is bad.
Outdated Mafia Stats