**** it, let's dig in. Yesterday Killjoy was convinced I was scum and railroading a town Antny. Antny clearly flipped scum. Has this caused Killjoy to reconsider? Nope. He is just continuing on. This is indicative of scum that realizes that they messed up re: the Antny wagon, and is just trying to take someone(me) down with them, plain and simple.
And Shock is as obviously town as it gets. Your attitude re: him is just further evidence of you being scum, especially in that you are just repeating what other people have already said. Some people in this thread are being sincere re: Shock, albeit still wrong. Killjoy is clearly being insincere re: Shock AND is wrong. That is the difference that makes him scum.
**** it, let's dig in. Yesterday Killjoy was convinced I was scum and railroading a town Antny. Antny clearly flipped scum. Has this caused Killjoy to reconsider? Nope. He is just continuing on. This is indicative of scum that realizes that they messed up re: the Antny wagon, and is just trying to take someone(me) down with them, plain and simple.
None of the reasoning you have posted all game has made any sense whatsoever. But it's not the sort of nonsense I'd expect from town, either.
Man, I don't think you can get any townier than Hunger.
@Wheat: Is your town read on Generic based on that he's just so bad he has to be good?
My read on Generic is that he's getting confrontational and believes in his reads. I've seen him put that on as an act when we were scum together in Majora's Mask though, so I'm not convinced. My general rule of thumb is that two players who dig in and 1v1 are typically town.
@Generic: Never say "I've yet to be proven wrong" because there's always contrary evidence. Mafia as a game would not exist were everyone to be always right, remember.
Your answer isn't sufficient. You say that rhand is scum because he waited for a vote count before he voted anty and the at he stil trying to show that you were scum. If memory recalls, you viciously trying to get rhand lynched is why he was probably suspicious of you. Now show some real evidence why antsy flip makes rhand scum.
This is an announcement that I will be on vacation tomorrow through Sunday. Behave yourselves. Those of you getting close to prod range (Sir Karn, SelesnyaNewLife) are lucking out.
Right now I'm torn because hunger and WG are my two biggest town reads. I think Generic and killjoy look the scumiest. I also don't think Shockwave is scum.
Can someone that doesn't find Shockwave to be scummy spell it out for me? Like what in his actions makes you think he is town? Or in Niv/Antny's actions? Why are my analysis and Karn's reads wrong? Like what parts of those arguments can be construed as town? I certainly have my doubts about whether I am correct, but I'm just not seeing any arguments from the people that are sure he is town to actually convince me, because his play clearly hasn't convinced me.
I think Rhand is the only that explained it, and I honestly think that reasoning is a bit of a trap. Shock admitted and has proven himself to be self-aware regardless of alignment, and if he is self-aware and knows he games setups as town, it would be a pretty easy thing to fake.
I'd like to hear more people comment on Shock's interactions with Niv/Antny and vice-versa.
@Hunger: I don't know if Shock knows his own meta well enough to fake it. I will check if he did so in scum games when I am back from vacation.
Him being unhappy with my townclearing him: what do you make of that?
But I'm beig accused of being bad, when not one of my major suspicions has been proven wrong.
The point I'm making is for someone who has been playing so lazily to pass judgement on my scumhunting this game when so far I consider myself 1 for 1 and not proven wrong yet on any of the others I have presented any sort of case against is pathetic.
And yes I can replicate most things as scum because I don't play according to my alignment, I play according to how my day has been.
Tk, unless I've misinterpreted something there was a point in the game where Rhand was stalling voting for antny waiting on a vote count. That felt tactical to me because it can easily be counted up what votes he had. Stalling. Then there was the constant need to keep trying to link me as scum through the antny wagon and to discredit me as I'm his biggest detractor.
And I've just spotted how keen Rhand was to activate hawks 'power'. Could easily be a scum power but without any further enquiry is keen to see it activated. And hawk keeps working with Rhand to try and double team the attack on me. And then when I point that out hawk immediately switches who he seems support from about me to cantrip.
Unless someone else flips scum I'm starting to believe they are the last two. But then again... Can you get 4 scum in a 13 player game?
I'm pretty sure I can pass judgement on what constitutes bad play, since I'm well versed in it. You're hyper-aggressiveness is anti-town and counter-productive towards solving this puzzle.
I remember when he waited for the vote count. I also remember the vote count being wrong at one point due to a vote being hidden in text. So it's not that suspicious. But I understand your views on Hawk.
Remember, this is a 16 person game. 1/4 (the commonly held number) of the players would be 4. So it stands good reason to believe that there are 2 more mafiates.
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She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
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I'm going to be super busy today and this weekend, but I will do my absolute best to be fully caught up and dump thoughts by Sunday evening, despite all of that.
I hadn't anticipated all of this happening when I agreed to replace in, or I'd have let someone else do so - isn't fair to the game to have a player slot that isn't caught up.
This wagon is bad and everyone on it should feel bad. Shockwave has bled town tells if you look closely enough(and frankly, they've been correctly pointed out by others, but are somehow being ignored).
This wagon is bad and everyone on it should feel bad. Shockwave has bled town tells if you look closely enough(and frankly, they've been correctly pointed out by others, but are somehow being ignored).
Quote them all and explain why they are town tells. Otherwise I don't believe you.
Anyone can breadcrumb, and anyone can modgame. Those are *****ty excuses, Rhand.
@Karn: if you're leaning town on me, then the above post seems off.
Why would you call my read on Shock "excuses" if you think I am town?
vote Karn
Why does a Karn that has a town read on you not think those are excuses for a town read? They actually ARE bad, considering you STILL haven't answered as to WHY THOSE ARE TOWNIE THINGS. Unless I missed the part where you clarified that.
So I'll ask again: Why are modgaming and breadcrumbs more likely town than not?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Hunger: I don't know if Shock knows his own meta well enough to fake it. I will check if he did so in scum games when I am back from vacation.
Him being unhappy with my townclearing him: what do you make of that?
I don't make much of it. He just seems to take offense to you implying he is that easy to read. I could see him not wanting to be so easily read as town or scum. What do you make of it?
The Rhand vote on Karn is pretty bad. Not just for the reasoning, but also the fact that he has been jumping all over the place with his votes. I don't get any sort of real conviction in anything he is doing and it feels like he is trying to get something to stick.
I was hoping more people would address the Shockwave issue and respond to my previous post, but I suppose there aren't too many active people. So far the only response is Cyan doing more of exactly what I didn't like already, saying Shock is so town without giving actual reasons.
Sometimes, a person is just so obviously town to me, based on..having ever played more than one game of mafia before..that it's hard for me to quantify WHY that person is town. Shock also clearly falls under the 'TDTBS'(Too Dumb To Be Scum) category of mafia players. His posts have been so abysmal that, if he were scum, he presumably would have told us this straight out by now.
There is also too much clearly honest mindset/awareness to his posts for him to be scum. There are like..no leaks(I guess that is the word I'm looking for) that show inconsistencies in his mindset. Is Shockwave a bad player? Apparently. But he's a bad town one.
I like the current push on Sir Karn, and I really should get around to making a real case on Killjoy.
Sometimes, a person is just so obviously town to me, based on..having ever played more than one game of mafia before..that it's hard for me to quantify WHY that person is town. Shock also clearly falls under the 'TDTBS'(Too Dumb To Be Scum) category of mafia players. His posts have been so abysmal that, if he were scum, he presumably would have told us this straight out by now.
There is also too much clearly honest mindset/awareness to his posts for him to be scum. There are like..no leaks(I guess that is the word I'm looking for) that show inconsistencies in his mindset. Is Shockwave a bad player? Apparently. But he's a bad town one.
I like the current push on Sir Karn, and I really should get around to making a real case on Killjoy.
Push on Karn? You mean like 4 people calling him town and then Rhand voting him for weak reasons and getting voted for himself for it? Not sure how that constitutes a push on Karn, but I wouldn't mind hearing what you don't like about Karn and what you like about the "push."
Alright, so humor me then on Shock. If his posts are so abysmal and so obviously town, it should be easy to quote some stuff that looks like it can't come from scum and you should also be able to easily refute the points Karn and I have made for Shock being scum, so do that please. And look at Niv/Antny's posts for yourself and let us know what their Shock interactions say in regards to his alignment.
For those wondering I don't want Rhand using something that I have done as town or scum to prove me town. I was aware at least one part was flawed, and figured at least test if the other had some credibility. I'm not sure I like setup gaming for a town tell of mine either as in Star Wars I used some to press a bus on a failing teammate, as it was semi-open.
And no, it's not that I don't want to be easy to read as town, I just want the reasons to be based on something solid.
Getting back into things and will get a list going.
I just checked Llama's with Hats for Shock's scum play. It is as I thought: I know that Shock uses setupgaming to figure out the game as town. I've seen him do that very often.
In Llama's with Hats, he tried to get town to STOP setupgaming, probably because he doesn't want his favorite tool being used against him.
I'm pretty sure that this is indeed a town tell for Shock and I will not vote him.
@Killjoy and whoever else that asked it: I do not believe setupgaming to be a universal towntell. I do believe it is a towntell for Shock.
I've read your sentences twice over, and I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Is that "Yes, mafia!Rhand will prove town!Shock because he knows all alignments"? That's how I read what you wrote.
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She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
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I think Rhand and Generic are probably town.
Killjoy is probably still scum. TK is probably town though.
I don't like the idea of going after Cyan just yet.
I still haven't looked back and made more sense of things but that's my opinions that I either remember or developed toDay.
Unvote, Vote: Killjoy
And Shock is as obviously town as it gets. Your attitude re: him is just further evidence of you being scum, especially in that you are just repeating what other people have already said. Some people in this thread are being sincere re: Shock, albeit still wrong. Killjoy is clearly being insincere re: Shock AND is wrong. That is the difference that makes him scum.
Vote Killjoy
@Wheat: Is your town read on Generic based on that he's just so bad he has to be good?
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And thus, your emotive OMGUS becomes a compliment.
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None of the reasoning you have posted all game has made any sense whatsoever. But it's not the sort of nonsense I'd expect from town, either.
Unvote, Vote: Cyan
My read on Generic is that he's getting confrontational and believes in his reads. I've seen him put that on as an act when we were scum together in Majora's Mask though, so I'm not convinced. My general rule of thumb is that two players who dig in and 1v1 are typically town.
@Generic: Never say "I've yet to be proven wrong" because there's always contrary evidence. Mafia as a game would not exist were everyone to be always right, remember.
@Generic: What links Antny and Rhand for you?
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Let's take it down a skosh, mk?
Outdated Mafia Stats
Outdated Mafia Stats
Generic (1): 7hawk77
Killjoy (1): Cyan
7hawk77 (1): Generic
Shockwave07 (2): Sir Karn, Hunger
Cyan (2): Killjoy, Wheat_Grinder
SelsnyaNewLife (3): TK-421, Rhand, Shockwave07
Rhand (1): SelesnyaNewLife
Not voting (2): Cantripmancer, Voxxicus
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to burn.
This is an announcement that I will be on vacation tomorrow through Sunday. Behave yourselves. Those of you getting close to prod range (Sir Karn, SelesnyaNewLife) are lucking out.
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I think Rhand is the only that explained it, and I honestly think that reasoning is a bit of a trap. Shock admitted and has proven himself to be self-aware regardless of alignment, and if he is self-aware and knows he games setups as town, it would be a pretty easy thing to fake.
I'd like to hear more people comment on Shock's interactions with Niv/Antny and vice-versa.
Also, V/LA from tomorrow through Sunday as well.
Him being unhappy with my townclearing him: what do you make of that?
I remember when he waited for the vote count. I also remember the vote count being wrong at one point due to a vote being hidden in text. So it's not that suspicious. But I understand your views on Hawk.
Remember, this is a 16 person game. 1/4 (the commonly held number) of the players would be 4. So it stands good reason to believe that there are 2 more mafiates.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
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Outdated Mafia Stats
He could be scum, but I'm not completely sold either way. I have bigger priorities at the moment.
My parents came 7000km to visit so I probably won't be playing much mafia while they're here.
I'm going to be super busy today and this weekend, but I will do my absolute best to be fully caught up and dump thoughts by Sunday evening, despite all of that.
I hadn't anticipated all of this happening when I agreed to replace in, or I'd have let someone else do so - isn't fair to the game to have a player slot that isn't caught up.
Quote them all and explain why they are town tells. Otherwise I don't believe you.
Undecided. If I had to: slight lean town.
@Karn: if you're leaning town on me, then the above post seems off.
Why would you call my read on Shock "excuses" if you think I am town?
vote Karn
So I'll ask again: Why are modgaming and breadcrumbs more likely town than not?
Prods have been suspended and will be issued 72 hours from the time of this post.
I was keeping up with the thread, thought there wasn't much, but I will reread and post something in the morning.
Outdated Mafia Stats
The Rhand vote on Karn is pretty bad. Not just for the reasoning, but also the fact that he has been jumping all over the place with his votes. I don't get any sort of real conviction in anything he is doing and it feels like he is trying to get something to stick.
I was hoping more people would address the Shockwave issue and respond to my previous post, but I suppose there aren't too many active people. So far the only response is Cyan doing more of exactly what I didn't like already, saying Shock is so town without giving actual reasons.
There is also too much clearly honest mindset/awareness to his posts for him to be scum. There are like..no leaks(I guess that is the word I'm looking for) that show inconsistencies in his mindset. Is Shockwave a bad player? Apparently. But he's a bad town one.
I like the current push on Sir Karn, and I really should get around to making a real case on Killjoy.
Alright, so humor me then on Shock. If his posts are so abysmal and so obviously town, it should be easy to quote some stuff that looks like it can't come from scum and you should also be able to easily refute the points Karn and I have made for Shock being scum, so do that please. And look at Niv/Antny's posts for yourself and let us know what their Shock interactions say in regards to his alignment.
What, exactly, do you like about it? Which of the pushers are you a fan of?
As the game currently stands, I still want to lynch SNL most, but my vote there doesn't do much work. All he posts is omgus.
Hunger's right about Shock. Niv and Antny's flips show just where Shock's poor play comes from. These are not town posts.
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And no, it's not that I don't want to be easy to read as town, I just want the reasons to be based on something solid.
Getting back into things and will get a list going.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
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In Llama's with Hats, he tried to get town to STOP setupgaming, probably because he doesn't want his favorite tool being used against him.
I'm pretty sure that this is indeed a town tell for Shock and I will not vote him.
@Killjoy and whoever else that asked it: I do not believe setupgaming to be a universal towntell. I do believe it is a towntell for Shock.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
not that i mind lynching rhand