Replace me, please. Extreme anger at the game of mafia, combined with RL stressing me out to no end is not a good combination. No time to play, and the desire got sucked out of me. Not fair to either site to have a dead slot, or someone in the game that's just going to be vitriolic.
And now I'm getting cold feet on just flat out quitting.
But I'm far too angry and stressed to play right this second. Let's see how it is after I calm down.
@Mod (s)
Requesting 2-3 day V/LA, at the end of which I'll either fully participate, or replace out for good. I'm not in a good state of mind right now to make the decision.
I want to lynch Nacho because he spent most of yesterday not really doing much(from what I see from re-reading his posts, he mostly just declared various people town, and didn't meaningfully try to get anyone lynched). He also spent a huge # of posts explaining why I should be town, and then voted me out of nowhere, for basically nothing. This doesn't strike me as something a person would do as town. Vote Nacho
¥.¥
The nondefense, combined with the emoticon, isn't making me feel terribly good about you. Especially since that doesn't fit with your vote on Cyan.
Rather, Vi wasn't defending Cyan, either. It's like you didn't even read Day 1 and you're taking what I'm saying, misinterpreting it, and then using it as the basis for your push. What?
"Vi's ad hom defense of Cyan"
Explain to me how you're not just proving his point, and what the point of saying this is.
Big Vi town case was on the to do list, but I was trying to do a big overhaul on reads and find better direction/a better picture of the gamestate before I got to the Vi ISO (which was very long). But as far as appealing to anyone else on the wagon goes, who was there to appeal to? DGB and I usually don't convince each other on our reads, Cyan/Iso/Voxxicus were pushing for their own moonlogic reasons, and Cyouni was pushing Vi for claimstalling and claimstalling only.
What?
I recall you were the one who went back and said that he followed how my pressuring Vi lead to a vote. And now you're claiming the opposite?
So, can you point out where me not being extraordinary is somehow an indication of me being scum? I'd say I did an extraordinary amount of research yesterday trying to figure out if the lynch was heading in the right direction yesterday. The only role who were extraordinary were the scum who got their mislynch, so me not being extraordinary confirms me as town, so thanks for that!
You'll have to forgive me for not being impressed by you tooting your own horn. (Now I know what it feels like when I do it to other people. >.>)
I grabbed this just to laugh at turnabout being fair play.
No, I haven't decided cyan was town. I lean towards it because it seems strange for any scum to attack the highest fruit on the tree for two days in a row (if you're going for credibility, you attack one and one only to cover up for easy opportunity attacks elsewhere), but I want to make sure that his scum meta isn't like Thor's in that he beats down people day after day.
The same thing would apply to iso then, no?
Iso started out the day attacking Cyan, not me. He only started significantly turning on me after I pushed him for a while.
I'd like to hear your definition of "highest fruit on the tree", because it doesn't seem to fit with the actual one.
I want to lynch Nacho because he spent most of yesterday not really doing much(from what I see from re-reading his posts, he mostly just declared various people town, and didn't meaningfully try to get anyone lynched). He also spent a huge # of posts explaining why I should be town, and then voted me out of nowhere, for basically nothing. This doesn't strike me as something a person would do as town. Vote Nacho
¥.¥
The nondefense, combined with the emoticon, isn't making me feel terribly good about you. Especially since that doesn't fit with your vote on Cyan.
There was no defense here because the actual accusation was absolute bull****; if you go back through my posts yesterday, you can't say that I "wasn't doing much", because I objectively was. I've gone over why I voted Cyan plenty of times already, and the reason I end up voting him is pretty obvious.
Because that opening was boring as **** and normally I don't link that phrase with Thor665? What are your reads?
If I had a clear thrust I'd be screaming about it more. But I think a Voxx thrust is a good one.
I agree that he's a great candidate (especially since dC kill), but I don't think pushing on him is going to produce many interesting things.
I'd like to hear the rationale behind this more.
Voxxicus is busy doing other things, and clearly is not going to spend much time in this thread. As a result, pushing on him is not really going to make him react much (he's not going to be around), and there isn't a significant case on him by virtue of posting absolutely nothing. dC kill makes him a good candidate because of their history, as I stated before.
Rather, Vi wasn't defending Cyan, either. It's like you didn't even read Day 1 and you're taking what I'm saying, misinterpreting it, and then using it as the basis for your push. What?
"Vi's ad hom defense of Cyan"
Explain to me how you're not just proving his point, and what the point of saying this is.
I figured what he meant by an ad hom defense was an insulting defense of another player. A defense is still a defense, and I wondered if he thought Vi was trying to defend Cyan-scumbuddy, or scum-Vi was white-knighting Cyan town while simultaneously discrediting him. It turns out I didn't understand what he meant by that in the first place.
Big Vi town case was on the to do list, but I was trying to do a big overhaul on reads and find better direction/a better picture of the gamestate before I got to the Vi ISO (which was very long). But as far as appealing to anyone else on the wagon goes, who was there to appeal to? DGB and I usually don't convince each other on our reads, Cyan/Iso/Voxxicus were pushing for their own moonlogic reasons, and Cyouni was pushing Vi for claimstalling and claimstalling only.
What?
I recall you were the one who went back and said that he followed how my pressuring Vi lead to a vote. And now you're claiming the opposite?
I'd like to see the explanation for this.
I understand how your questioning of Vi lead to a vote, but the strong point that had you actually pushing Vi was claimstalling; you let everything else drop. Feel free to go back and correct me if that wasn't the case.
No, I haven't decided cyan was town. I lean towards it because it seems strange for any scum to attack the highest fruit on the tree for two days in a row (if you're going for credibility, you attack one and one only to cover up for easy opportunity attacks elsewhere), but I want to make sure that his scum meta isn't like Thor's in that he beats down people day after day.
The same thing would apply to iso then, no?
Iso started out the day attacking Cyan, not me. He only started significantly turning on me after I pushed him for a while.
I'd like to hear your definition of "highest fruit on the tree", because it doesn't seem to fit with the actual one.
After Day 1 yesterday, there wasn't many people (if anyone) who expressed suspicions of me. Tammy and I expressed suspicions of Cyan. Thus, I was a harder target for scum to attack than Cyan was. Vi was a high-hanging fruit mostly because of last game, where I'd say he had the best day play of any of us. Hence, high hanging fruit being targets who are the hardest to attack. Who do you think would be higher hanging fruit?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I don't particularly mind Nacho claiming.
I've got reservations all around and the path isn't clear.
Wanna just lynch Thor?
Vote: Thor
May as well put my vote on something, even if I don't really know the answers at this stage.
Also DGB not claiming a result on Cyan makes Cyan much more reasonable as a lynch.
Especially since he just went away after being townread.
I want to lynch Nacho because he spent most of yesterday not really doing much(from what I see from re-reading his posts, he mostly just declared various people town, and didn't meaningfully try to get anyone lynched). He also spent a huge # of posts explaining why I should be town, and then voted me out of nowhere, for basically nothing. This doesn't strike me as something a person would do as town. Vote Nacho
¥.¥
The nondefense, combined with the emoticon, isn't making me feel terribly good about you. Especially since that doesn't fit with your vote on Cyan.
There was no defense here because the actual accusation was absolute bull****; if you go back through my posts yesterday, you can't say that I "wasn't doing much", because I objectively was. I've gone over why I voted Cyan plenty of times already, and the reason I end up voting him is pretty obvious.
Clarification: The emoticon doesn't fit with your vote on Cyan. Similarly, if you thought he was scum, not disassembling his argument is really odd.
"He's scum and attacked me. So I'm just going to look sad and not do anything."
Because that opening was boring as **** and normally I don't link that phrase with Thor665? What are your reads?
If I had a clear thrust I'd be screaming about it more. But I think a Voxx thrust is a good one.
I agree that he's a great candidate (especially since dC kill), but I don't think pushing on him is going to produce many interesting things.
I'd like to hear the rationale behind this more.
Voxxicus is busy doing other things, and clearly is not going to spend much time in this thread. As a result, pushing on him is not really going to make him react much (he's not going to be around), and there isn't a significant case on him by virtue of posting absolutely nothing. dC kill makes him a good candidate because of their history, as I stated before.
You said "especially since dC kill". That implies you have something aside from that.
Yet now you say there's effectively nothing aside from the dC kill. Explain that.
Rather, Vi wasn't defending Cyan, either. It's like you didn't even read Day 1 and you're taking what I'm saying, misinterpreting it, and then using it as the basis for your push. What?
"Vi's ad hom defense of Cyan"
Explain to me how you're not just proving his point, and what the point of saying this is.
I figured what he meant by an ad hom defense was an insulting defense of another player. A defense is still a defense, and I wondered if he thought Vi was trying to defend Cyan-scumbuddy, or scum-Vi was white-knighting Cyan town while simultaneously discrediting him. It turns out I didn't understand what he meant by that in the first place.
See the first line of what Iso said.
See the second line of what Iso said.
Big Vi town case was on the to do list, but I was trying to do a big overhaul on reads and find better direction/a better picture of the gamestate before I got to the Vi ISO (which was very long). But as far as appealing to anyone else on the wagon goes, who was there to appeal to? DGB and I usually don't convince each other on our reads, Cyan/Iso/Voxxicus were pushing for their own moonlogic reasons, and Cyouni was pushing Vi for claimstalling and claimstalling only.
What?
I recall you were the one who went back and said that he followed how my pressuring Vi lead to a vote. And now you're claiming the opposite?
I'd like to see the explanation for this.
I understand how your questioning of Vi lead to a vote, but the strong point that had you actually pushing Vi was claimstalling; you let everything else drop. Feel free to go back and correct me if that wasn't the case.
You didn't say anything to any of the other points I raised when I made them.
And no, the fact that she was claimstalling wasn't the main point. It was the fact that the reasoning she gave for it didn't actually line up with reality. See everything I said.
No, I haven't decided cyan was town. I lean towards it because it seems strange for any scum to attack the highest fruit on the tree for two days in a row (if you're going for credibility, you attack one and one only to cover up for easy opportunity attacks elsewhere), but I want to make sure that his scum meta isn't like Thor's in that he beats down people day after day.
The same thing would apply to iso then, no?
Iso started out the day attacking Cyan, not me. He only started significantly turning on me after I pushed him for a while.
I'd like to hear your definition of "highest fruit on the tree", because it doesn't seem to fit with the actual one.
After Day 1 yesterday, there wasn't many people (if anyone) who expressed suspicions of me. Tammy and I expressed suspicions of Cyan. Thus, I was a harder target for scum to attack than Cyan was. Vi was a high-hanging fruit mostly because of last game, where I'd say he had the best day play of any of us. Hence, high hanging fruit being targets who are the hardest to attack. Who do you think would be higher hanging fruit?
A minute of checking tells me that Tammy expressed suspicion on you in the same one she did Cyan. So that invalidates one of your two people, the other one being yourself.
On a slightly different note, I can't see anyone being particularly hard to attack right now. Saying "no one expressed suspicion on someone" doesn't make them hard to attack.
And I'd like to hear who you expected Cyan to attack aside from you. Obviously, he couldn't attack himself.
Thor665 gets his first prod and has 48 hours to post or be replaced.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I don't particularly mind Nacho claiming.
I've got reservations all around and the path isn't clear.
Wanna just lynch Thor?
Vote: Thor
May as well put my vote on something, even if I don't really know the answers at this stage.
Also DGB not claiming a result on Cyan makes Cyan much more reasonable as a lynch.
Especially since he just went away after being townread.
I think Nacho is scum. I just have a really difficult time articulating WHY, and that appears to be the case with all of you guys. Your posting style(as a group) continues to be difficult for me to point to various posts and say 'I think that this is scummy for this reason'.
In Nacho's case, I still maintain that during Day 1 he pretended to be active while letting everyone else lynch Vierni, and while he sort of protested that lynch, it was mostly just lip service, because he didn't make a meaningful effort to get anyone else lynched.
And today, his defense that 'everyone else did that too/more' comes across as poorly as possible to me, as do his attempts to handwave away the fact that he said this.
He actually got out of his seat to see in a stupor, watching the band of subjects banter and debate their minds out while all puppetted by GLaDOS... Well, not all, or this experiment wouldn't even be under way. that was the beauty of it... even he could not identify those he was silenty rooting for, to actually pull through with overthrowing the tyrant machine. Just maybe...
/*-+-*/
wondrous TWELFTH VOTE COUNT! (I made my bed this morning!)
Voxxicus (1) - Thor665 Nachomamma8 (3) - Cyan, Iso, Kami of Lunacy Iso (1) - Nachomamma8 Thor665 (1) - llamarable
I want to lynch Nacho because he spent most of yesterday not really doing much(from what I see from re-reading his posts, he mostly just declared various people town, and didn't meaningfully try to get anyone lynched). He also spent a huge # of posts explaining why I should be town, and then voted me out of nowhere, for basically nothing. This doesn't strike me as something a person would do as town. Vote Nacho
¥.¥
The nondefense, combined with the emoticon, isn't making me feel terribly good about you. Especially since that doesn't fit with your vote on Cyan.
There was no defense here because the actual accusation was absolute bull****; if you go back through my posts yesterday, you can't say that I "wasn't doing much", because I objectively was. I've gone over why I voted Cyan plenty of times already, and the reason I end up voting him is pretty obvious.
Clarification: The emoticon doesn't fit with your vote on Cyan. Similarly, if you thought he was scum, not disassembling his argument is really odd.
"He's scum and attacked me. So I'm just going to look sad and not do anything."
I don't actually know what that emoticon is, but it isn't sad. That symbol look really really cool and I didn't feel like responding to something that I had already responded to and was obviously wrong, hence that thing. It ended up looking like >.>, which summed up my mood pretty nicely.
Because that opening was boring as **** and normally I don't link that phrase with Thor665? What are your reads?
If I had a clear thrust I'd be screaming about it more. But I think a Voxx thrust is a good one.
I agree that he's a great candidate (especially since dC kill), but I don't think pushing on him is going to produce many interesting things.
I'd like to hear the rationale behind this more.
Voxxicus is busy doing other things, and clearly is not going to spend much time in this thread. As a result, pushing on him is not really going to make him react much (he's not going to be around), and there isn't a significant case on him by virtue of posting absolutely nothing. dC kill makes him a good candidate because of their history, as I stated before.
You said "especially since dC kill". That implies you have something aside from that.
Yet now you say there's effectively nothing aside from the dC kill. Explain that.
Lurking and doing nothing generally makes people good candidates (aka there's not a whole lot that points them to not being scum), but that doesn't mean that they're good pushes at all.
Rather, Vi wasn't defending Cyan, either. It's like you didn't even read Day 1 and you're taking what I'm saying, misinterpreting it, and then using it as the basis for your push. What?
"Vi's ad hom defense of Cyan"
Explain to me how you're not just proving his point, and what the point of saying this is.
I figured what he meant by an ad hom defense was an insulting defense of another player. A defense is still a defense, and I wondered if he thought Vi was trying to defend Cyan-scumbuddy, or scum-Vi was white-knighting Cyan town while simultaneously discrediting him. It turns out I didn't understand what he meant by that in the first place.
See the first line of what Iso said.
See the second line of what Iso said.
Be more clear. I thought Vi's ... defense of Cyan meant that Vi was defending Cyan. I didn't see where I was misinterpreting his argument at that point.
Big Vi town case was on the to do list, but I was trying to do a big overhaul on reads and find better direction/a better picture of the gamestate before I got to the Vi ISO (which was very long). But as far as appealing to anyone else on the wagon goes, who was there to appeal to? DGB and I usually don't convince each other on our reads, Cyan/Iso/Voxxicus were pushing for their own moonlogic reasons, and Cyouni was pushing Vi for claimstalling and claimstalling only.
What?
I recall you were the one who went back and said that he followed how my pressuring Vi lead to a vote. And now you're claiming the opposite?
I'd like to see the explanation for this.
I understand how your questioning of Vi lead to a vote, but the strong point that had you actually pushing Vi was claimstalling; you let everything else drop. Feel free to go back and correct me if that wasn't the case.
You didn't say anything to any of the other points I raised when I made them.
And no, the fact that she was claimstalling wasn't the main point. It was the fact that the reasoning she gave for it didn't actually line up with reality. See everything I said.
I didn't say anything to your other points because it looked like you dropped them for a while.
There is not a significant difference between Claimstalling/not liking the reasons for claimstalling.
No, I haven't decided cyan was town. I lean towards it because it seems strange for any scum to attack the highest fruit on the tree for two days in a row (if you're going for credibility, you attack one and one only to cover up for easy opportunity attacks elsewhere), but I want to make sure that his scum meta isn't like Thor's in that he beats down people day after day.
The same thing would apply to iso then, no?
Iso started out the day attacking Cyan, not me. He only started significantly turning on me after I pushed him for a while.
I'd like to hear your definition of "highest fruit on the tree", because it doesn't seem to fit with the actual one.
After Day 1 yesterday, there wasn't many people (if anyone) who expressed suspicions of me. Tammy and I expressed suspicions of Cyan. Thus, I was a harder target for scum to attack than Cyan was. Vi was a high-hanging fruit mostly because of last game, where I'd say he had the best day play of any of us. Hence, high hanging fruit being targets who are the hardest to attack. Who do you think would be higher hanging fruit?
A minute of checking tells me that Tammy expressed suspicion on you in the same one she did Cyan. So that invalidates one of your two people, the other one being yourself.
On a slightly different note, I can't see anyone being particularly hard to attack right now. Saying "no one expressed suspicion on someone" doesn't make them hard to attack.
And I'd like to hear who you expected Cyan to attack aside from you. Obviously, he couldn't attack himself.
Who else expressed suspicion of me aside from Tammy? (No one). Tammy and I had expressed suspicion of Cyan, no one really called him a townread. Tammy was the only person calling me scummy yesterday, there were townreads on me yesterday, etc.
If Cyan wanted to attack an easier target, he could attack either you or Voxxicus without too much trouble.
If you think what I've done is staying below the radar, you don't know what the phrase means and should probably stop using terms when you have no clue what it is.
Well NOW you're starting to contribute, but prior to this, you had absolutely no impact on the state of the game whatsoever - so yeah, you were staying below the radar.
Quote from Tammy »
It has to do with your bull**** reads and how similar your bull**** reads look here. And just so you know the two of you screeching at each other when you were each other's counter wagons because the town had realized you were both scum isn't you catching her and doing awesome scumhunting. (Also just so your aware, the town credit would have gone to a dead me considering I'd been pushing that lynch for two days, so sorry but no deal and you can't complain about being lynched when you were practically confirmed scum.)
I am taking ino account context, and the one and only thing that matters is that you didn't really scum hunt in that game, and you going I caught mollie, when shed already been caught and you fighting with her but not doing anything else doesn't constitute as scumhunting. (And the one thing that is incomparable is that was multiball, so even in an environment where you could Scumhunt naturally you really weren't.)
Here your doing a similar thing. The context issues don't matter when the feeling I'm getting is a lack of trying to figure out the game is the common thread.
Um...what?
This is utter bull****. mollie endgamed and won for the other scumteam. You ARE completely ignoring context. Talk to me when you're not going to just spout lies that nobody else is going to bother checking up on.
Quote from Tammy »
Oh I responded to that other response about the lie in here. And the one thing that matters is my feelings of similarity between here and there. In that game I ended up hammering you over the person I had been pushing because aside from fighting with mollie you weren't trying to figure the game out and you were all but confirmed scum. And I thought they would lynch mollie the next day not let her coast to the win. But you still weren't trying to figure out the game as a whole, and you clutching onto realizing mollie was the obvscum she was doesn't mean you were.
Iso - Vi wasn't the only person who didn't vote in rvs. I pointed this out before but instead of answer you criticized my reading comprehension, but now is saying its scummy. Which is it? And why weren't you bothered by the other people who also didn't vote in rvs?
Also and as a backup to my accusation of you not feeling like you're trying to figure out this game, you said you've caught cyan, but the only thing you've done is vote. You're not eying to get him lynched or explain why we should see him as scum.
My explanations for Cyanscum are in Day 1.
As for the Vi thing, Vi was the first person not to do it, dodged my questions, etc. So naturally I looked at Vi first, and she continued to add to her repertoire of scummy behavior. It read a lot to me like the way mollie evaded my questioning in Bowser's Potluck, actually, which is one reason why I was so convinced I was right.
You're saying I'm not trying to figure out the game...which is exactly why I asked Voxx to post something to help me parse his alignment, right?
I have two townreads.
Two.
When everyone's posting at such an intermittent frequency, there's not much I can do about that except ask questions and read into their posts when they do actually post.
Additionally, I typically have more town reads that what I have right now - this is the exact opposite of what I'm used to. There are certain nuances and behaviors once can pick up on that you'd expect town to portray; I'm getting very few of those from a number of other players at this point in time. Usually, I can discount other people from being lynch targets based on this. However, as it is, I can only go for who I think is the scummiest at this point in time - that being Nacho and Cyan at this point, who I don't believe can be scum together.
So how about you be a doll, get the ball rolling, and have an impact on the state of the game, mmkay?
Also, let's all take a moment to appreciate how flimsy Iso's reasoning for calling me scum is. I didn't explain why I didn't lay a nonsense vote on page 1
And you don't think that's scummy?
Why would it be? I doubt there's a single player in this list who is so incredibly incompetent as scum that they couldn't make an RVS vote, so why would scum decide not to put one down for no reason?
Firstly, not voting doesn't step on anyone's toes - which is an immediate red flag. Additionally, I was calling Vi's lack of explanation here scummy - not the lack of a vote initially (since I had already called that scummy).
Voting someone for the RVS isn't stepping on their toes. I can vote you for absolutely no reason and go "Hi!" in the RVS and you will not give a **** at all. Why is the lack of an explanation scummy?
Voting anybody steps on their toes, RVS or not. Making a point not to vote for a player or someone in particular (i.e. not yourself) looks nervous. So when you're asked, "Hey, why are you avoiding tying yourself to anyone in RVS by voting for them?", it's a damn valid question and you'd better answer it.
I've seen it happen before, though I can't, for the life of me, remember what game it was in. Maybe that's the alcohol speaking, though.
"It happened once" doesn't explain why it was the first conclusion you jumped to.
Pretty sure "I've seen it happen before" doesn't necessitate "I've seen it happen once".
The point is that it isn't something that happens often, so I wonder why you'd think of it as the first thing that you put out in thread. It's not natural to open up with a conspiracy theory; paranoia of those sorts of things is something that tends to come after you've thought about the normal possibilities at first and dismissed them for one reason or another. I'd understand if it was the type of thing that you were used to, but I'd bet several shiny pennies that you couldn't link me to a game where the scumteam opens up with a three way bus of that magnitude.
Because it's unnatural scum behavior and I've noticed people trying to dodge out of RVS scum meta as of late. WIFOM's been the name of the game lately, and I had no intention of allowing myself to be duped in the event that my paranoia was correct.
I don't care for Vi's vote on Kami, either. At the time, there was no viable counter-wagon to Vi (another good sign, I think, that Vi's scum) and Vi just created that counterwagon on Kami.
What is the town reaction when there is no counterwagon to the wagon on you? This is a no-win situation where pretty much all Vi could do by this point was lay down and die.
Then she shouldn't have played so terribly. When I got run up last game, I explained exactly why my wagon was bull**** and tried to move the momentum on to who I thought was the most likely scum candidate on my wagon - who, incidentally, was Vi. Regardless, I was stuck in tunnelmode when it came to yesterDay's lynch, so yeah, I guess I can see why a few things I did yesterDay are questionable. I like being right early in the game and have been trying to trust my gut more but it's bitten me in the ass in times like this.
So, Nacho. Where were you yesterDay when this was happening? Why weren't you white-knighting Vi then instead of crying about how I pushed her now?
That's exactly what Vi did and you called her scum for it.
Yes, which is why I said "I guess I can see why a few things I did yesterDay are questionable" - because I didn't draw the parallel to me in the last Crosstown game and Vi in this one.
Quote from Nachomamma8 »
Please don't ask me the same question Tammy already did. Please.
Answer me.
Quote from Nachomamma8 »
Going over my quotewalls with Nacho, I've realized that Nacho is Naked City's Thor. I can't believe for a second that anyone could misconstrue what I'm saying so badly, given the context right in front of him.
Unvote, Vote Nacho
I haven't even come close to burying you to the extent that Thor did in Naked City. I also haven't misconstrued anything that you're saying with the exception of the Tammy thing (but I admitted to not being able to find the quote and spoke from memory, so that might explain why I messed up that bit!) and the "it happened once" comment.
Well first, llama was the one who was buffoonish enough in the last game to buy into Thor's WIFOM - which is never good in the hands of a Vig. Secondly, Thor didn't "bury" me - he just numbed everyone else's mind (barring Cyan, maybe) to the point of where they decided not to think about what was going on. Finally, I wasn't just talking about the Tammy thing or the "it happened once" thing, but also the thing about the Vi/Cyan ad hom defense.
No, I haven't decided cyan was town. I lean towards it because it seems strange for any scum to attack the highest fruit on the tree for two days in a row (if you're going for credibility, you attack one and one only to cover up for easy opportunity attacks elsewhere), but I want to make sure that his scum meta isn't like Thor's in that he beats down people day after day.
Cyan will lynch whoever he thinks he can/needs to as scum. See his lynch of WellOfLostGnomes in MTGS Mafia Redux 2's Invitational. Who exactly do you think is the highest fruit on the tree?
Also, I'm feeling better about Thor now that I sat on his play for a while. If there was one thing Thor's scum play seems to maintain, it's that he always seems to maintain some sort of direction, some constant drive towards a scum agenda. Last game, he tunneled on Iso for a while as an alternative to his buddy, he made a big stink about refusing to hammer his buddy so that it would be "too ridiculous to be town", made a couple "is anyone there?" posts so he could show how much he was contributing even while he had limited access, things like that. In Walking Dead, he was a big presence day 1, sheeped someone into bussing his buddy, tunneled on Sugar Cain to break up the town block a bit since Nero freaks out when being pressured, things like that. Here, he just feels like he went "**** it, let's pressure Voxxicus". Although that could in and of itself be Thor doing something he doesn't think we'd think he'd do as scum.
This is probably the biggest reason I have a town read on Thor right now.
So, can you point out where me not being extraordinary is somehow an indication of me being scum? I'd say I did an extraordinary amount of research yesterday trying to figure out if the lynch was heading in the right direction yesterday. The only role who were extraordinary were the scum who got their mislynch, so me not being extraordinary confirms me as town, so thanks for that!
You'll have to forgive me for not being impressed by you tooting your own horn. (Now I know what it feels like when I do it to other people. >.>)
I grabbed this just to laugh at turnabout being fair play.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
There was no defense here because the actual accusation was absolute bull****; if you go back through my posts yesterday, you can't say that I "wasn't doing much", because I objectively was. I've gone over why I voted Cyan plenty of times already, and the reason I end up voting him is pretty obvious.
Clarification: The emoticon doesn't fit with your vote on Cyan. Similarly, if you thought he was scum, not disassembling his argument is really odd.
"He's scum and attacked me. So I'm just going to look sad and not do anything."
I don't actually know what that emoticon is, but it isn't sad. That symbol look really really cool and I didn't feel like responding to something that I had already responded to and was obviously wrong, hence that thing. It ended up looking like >.>, which summed up my mood pretty nicely.
Sure, we'll take it as >.>. (The yen symbol looks most like T out of the possibilities, but sure.)
Still doesn't fit if you thought he was scum. "He's scum and attacked me. So I'm just going to and not do anything."
I agree that he's a great candidate (especially since dC kill), but I don't think pushing on him is going to produce many interesting things.
I'd like to hear the rationale behind this more.
Voxxicus is busy doing other things, and clearly is not going to spend much time in this thread. As a result, pushing on him is not really going to make him react much (he's not going to be around), and there isn't a significant case on him by virtue of posting absolutely nothing. dC kill makes him a good candidate because of their history, as I stated before.
You said "especially since dC kill". That implies you have something aside from that.
Yet now you say there's effectively nothing aside from the dC kill. Explain that.
Lurking and doing nothing generally makes people good candidates (aka there's not a whole lot that points them to not being scum), but that doesn't mean that they're good pushes at all.
You said he's a 'great' candidate - not just good. One would expect you to have more than nothing.
One would also expect you to push on someone you think is a goodgreat candidate for being scum.
Rather, Vi wasn't defending Cyan, either. It's like you didn't even read Day 1 and you're taking what I'm saying, misinterpreting it, and then using it as the basis for your push. What?
"Vi's ad hom defense of Cyan"
Explain to me how you're not just proving his point, and what the point of saying this is.
I figured what he meant by an ad hom defense was an insulting defense of another player. A defense is still a defense, and I wondered if he thought Vi was trying to defend Cyan-scumbuddy, or scum-Vi was white-knighting Cyan town while simultaneously discrediting him. It turns out I didn't understand what he meant by that in the first place.
See the first line of what Iso said.
See the second line of what Iso said.
Be more clear. I thought Vi's ... defense of Cyan meant that Vi was defending Cyan. I didn't see where I was misinterpreting his argument at that point.
> "Rather, Vi wasn't defending Cyan, either."
That's rather self-explanatory. A simple statement of fact.
> "It's like you didn't even read Day 1 and you're taking what I'm saying, misinterpreting it, and then using it as the basis for your push."
It's like you didn't read Day 1 (in other words, knowing that Vi wasn't defending Cyan), and you took what he said ("Vi's ad hom defense of Cyan"), misinterpreted it, and then used it as the basis for your push (Vi was defending Cyan).
I'm pretty sure there's nothing except plain English there.
You didn't say anything to any of the other points I raised when I made them.
And no, the fact that she was claimstalling wasn't the main point. It was the fact that the reasoning she gave for it didn't actually line up with reality. See everything I said.
I didn't say anything to your other points because it looked like you dropped them for a while.
There is not a significant difference between Claimstalling/not liking the reasons for claimstalling.
That wouldn't preclude you from answering them at the point when they were brought up.
And reasons for an action =/= the action. That's a pretty big difference.
After Day 1 yesterday, there wasn't many people (if anyone) who expressed suspicions of me. Tammy and I expressed suspicions of Cyan. Thus, I was a harder target for scum to attack than Cyan was. Vi was a high-hanging fruit mostly because of last game, where I'd say he had the best day play of any of us. Hence, high hanging fruit being targets who are the hardest to attack. Who do you think would be higher hanging fruit?
A minute of checking tells me that Tammy expressed suspicion on you in the same one she did Cyan. So that invalidates one of your two people, the other one being yourself.
On a slightly different note, I can't see anyone being particularly hard to attack right now. Saying "no one expressed suspicion on someone" doesn't make them hard to attack.
And I'd like to hear who you expected Cyan to attack aside from you. Obviously, he couldn't attack himself.
Who else expressed suspicion of me aside from Tammy? (No one). Tammy and I had expressed suspicion of Cyan, no one really called him a townread. Tammy was the only person calling me scummy yesterday, there were townreads on me yesterday, etc.
If Cyan wanted to attack an easier target, he could attack either you or Voxxicus without too much trouble.
There was one townread on you from alive people, and that was from llamarble. If you're counting Vi's opinions into the mix, then his opinion on Cyan and me would also be in there, invalidating your point.
And we're drifting aside from the point. "Very little suspicion on someone" (actually, that's a pretty good description of half the game at that point) isn't the qualification for "highest fruit on the tree".
ISO - I'm not going to keep arguing with you about this. You feel like you did in Mario where you were scum, in which I voted you for doing nothing but ate and yelling instead of scum hunting. I was tsunami by the way. And you need to drop the mollie bit. You were both scum and each other's counter wagons, but you are burying my original argument in trivialities and you know what you're doing and it makes you look scummier than hell.
You feel like the game we played in which you were scum. You don't look like the tales of game I followed where you were town. The particulars don't matter, you don't feel like you're trying to figure out this game.
Someone said day one that he's best read late day one, day two. That might have been Dc though.
Can someone tell me if he always has the kind of nitpicky scum hunting? Like for instance questioning nacho on his use of the word especially denoting that he would have another reason. That just feels so mechanical to me.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
1) the RVS point is seriously dumb and only the ****tiest of players are afraid to vote someone in RVS. It's safe to say that none of us fit in that category.
2) see above.
3) OK.
4) forgot the question, scrolling is hard right now. I'll look it up and probably be pissed when I answer it.
5) not realizing that you meant that vi was attacking cyan when you said Vi's defense of cyan isn't miscontruing anything. Burying someone versus numbing everyone else is the exact same thing in my mind.
6) Tammy is pretty much the only high hanging fruit left. Before day 2, things seemed a bit clearer. What does this have to do with anything?
Cyouni, did you notice where I refuted cyan several times after the fact? I didn't feel like responding at that moment because his accusation was bad and I didn't feel like responding. Doesn't matter whether I thought he was scum or town; didn't feel like responding. Why am I more likely to respond to him if I think he's scum? Why does it matter that I ignored a question once when I answered it down the road? What do you think of cyan completely ignoring the entirety of my previous case against him?
Great and good are two words that mean positive things. I think he's a great candidate for scum, but his inactivity means that he's a poor candidate to push. It doesn't mean that I have wonderful reasons for voting him (or else probably would be voting him). I just think that he's a solid candidate for scum.
"Vi wasn't defending Cyan" is self explanatory, yes. It doesn't make sense when it is paired up with an earliern comment that suggested Vi WAS defending Cyan. So I pointed out his previous comment. Where did I use this in a push? What did I misconstrue?
I wasn't interested in your points when you made them; I didn't bring them up when referring to your later Vi push because you dropped them. I don't understand the big difference; your push on Vi was because he didn't explain his claimstalling awesomely enough. If you didn't care about claim stalling in the first place, you wouldn't care about his explanation for it.
I was high hanging fruit because I was active, I posted a ton of good ****, there are three people here who can read me well from our side (Thor probably can too, but he's always scum when we play together or I'm trying to mislynch him soo). I was high hanging fruit because generally I don't have a problem connecting with a lot of players on this player list, I am hard to lynch under pressure because I become town in one way or another, I am high hanging fruit because not a lot of people really cared to lynch me yesterday. The point was that I was an odd target for cyan to go after as scum. Do you disagree? Is mislynching me proving as easy as you hoped it would be? Do you understand what I'm talking about when I talk about opportunistic targets and not opportunistic targets, and what does my reasoning on me being a hard target have to do with anything?
@Nacho - Re:Cyouni's questions generally not going anywhere, as I said earlier on in the game, this is the case. However, in the long term, the point becomes distinguishing if his 'going nowhere questions' are actually him trying to figure things out but bumping into all kinds of walls, or him finding something to pick at in a corner. I'm not quite sure which it is with him just yet. Beyond that, reading Cyouni pre-flip is also a bit of a tone thing. As of right now, #335-338 still reads the worst of his posts to me.
Here is dc's cyouni quote, and right now, this feels a lot more like the latter.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Cyan is doing that thing where he latches on to someone and construes them to be scum for every action they take. This is more likely a good sign that he is town.
Unvote
Thor is acting completely different than he did last game - Kami's comment about him seeming "happier" is totally on the mark.
@dC: My questioning Cyan about last game feeds directly into the question I asked this game. He was so off-the-mark about Kami that I wanted to understand what he saw differently this time that would warrant him to be suspicious again. While he got her gender wrong, I understand the point he was making. That, coupled with his rabid attraction to Vierni has me feeling fine about him.
You and Iso have drastically different reads than me at this point, and that's alarming.
I'm going to fence-sit this Vierni wagon and :munch:.
Well, Iso, because you and I have this knack for nabbing people early.
desCoures because - while I made up a bunch of crap last game about how "off" his reads were - well, it was just that. Me making stuff up. Which I seem to recall dC saying was exactly what I was doing. What I didn't make up last game is how dC is generally the benchmark for analysts.
So, with that said - I feel good about my reads, but the two of you dissenting says that the likelihood I'm off is higher and/or there's scum amongst you.
I don't think Kami's analysis of Vi is correct at all. I realize desCoures has already touched on this, somewhat, but as someone who was scum last game - even if I didn't control the kill until Thor had died - I didn't feel that way about her at all. I tried to put some doubt in the other townies about her, but the way she strode into the last day made it very clear that route was going nowhere. Vierni didn't get killed because there were other pressing matters like a doc, a vig, and a gunsmith. It's incredibly disingenuous to suggest otherwise. Those were the only three scum kills. Had I been forced to kill someone Night 4, it would have very obviously been Vierni.
So, my read on KoL has flipped in one post - and by extension, my read on Vierni - who I was previously leaning over the scum side of the fence towards.
@Thor: See, even though I was scum with you last game and knew your alignment, I completely agreed with Kami's case on you. I was actually infuriated enough in the early game that I wanted to see you hang beyond just the amazing TownCred points it would've bought me. Kami's attack here on Vi is utter garbage. That's the sticking point for me.
So, KoL, tell me exactly what else has been "utter rubbish" in my previous posts. It seems like you have more of an issue with my ultimate conclusion - as Tammy noted - and the lack of posts, themselves (get over it), than with anything contained in them.
I think you misunderstand me, Thor. My 'sticking point' is the issue with Kami in that last game I agreed with her premise of the case on you - even though I had inside information. She was town, she made a good push against you.
My problem here is that I don't agree with her thoughts about Vi from last game, and she drops a wall in 256 designed to propel the wagon forward with them. Here she is unknown alignment making a bad push filled with misinformation.
There is a disconnect between these two things; hence the reason I am voting KoL. See: why I asked Cyan about KoL. She was doing KoL things at that point, now she's doing other things which I don't like.
I already addressed why #256 sucks in my post above.
Jokes aside, I like where dC's vote ended up, but Thor is on to something with the response to his post. On the flip side, I also appreciate dC's comments about Cyouni.
@Cyouni: Are you actually going to address dC's remarks or just make light of them?
Erm - I may be approaching some of this wrong. I've been expecting one to be odd the wagon (still could) based on Trojan man hammering, but I totally disregarded dyh's white knighting of Vi. That slot had no intention of being on that wagon.
Mostly just this:
"Especially regarding that series of posts from Fate - it was all rather pointless. It feels like a lot of his stuff has been that way- I can't remember anything specific he's done. Very high noise-to-content ratio based on the number of posts. Is this typical? "
Hmm...I wish I knew if he had a pattern for interacting with partners. Here he interacted with cyan, iso, cyouni and descoures from mtgs, but only with Thor and kami from ms. He mentioned a couple of us.
He decided cyan was likely town after questioning, expressed concern about desc and iso, called Thor town, Vi town, and kami scum and liked desc's question to cyouni.
I think that his interaction with cyouni and iso sounds the fakest and the case on kami has me worried.
I think I'm going to try to find another scum game of dyh's over the holiday and see if last game is more typical or less.
Oh also forgot to mention last night, well actually wanted to see Isos reaction, but I feel slightly better about him after his complaint about having only two town reads.
After I catch up on rest.
Replace me, please. Extreme anger at the game of mafia, combined with RL stressing me out to no end is not a good combination. No time to play, and the desire got sucked out of me. Not fair to either site to have a dead slot, or someone in the game that's just going to be vitriolic.
@Players
This slot is town.
Make Iso, Nacho, Cyouni dead. Profit.
So long, and thanks for all the fish.
And now I'm getting cold feet on just flat out quitting.
But I'm far too angry and stressed to play right this second. Let's see how it is after I calm down.
@Mod (s)
Requesting 2-3 day V/LA, at the end of which I'll either fully participate, or replace out for good. I'm not in a good state of mind right now to make the decision.
I wish he weren't angry though. But he's town.
I believe your post is lacking in reasons why.
I'd like a reason for that and a more complete answer.
I'd like to hear the rationale behind this more.
Explain to me how you're not just proving his point, and what the point of saying this is.
What?
I recall you were the one who went back and said that he followed how my pressuring Vi lead to a vote. And now you're claiming the opposite?
I'd like to see the explanation for this.
I grabbed this just to laugh at turnabout being fair play.
I'd like to hear your definition of "highest fruit on the tree", because it doesn't seem to fit with the actual one.
There was no defense here because the actual accusation was absolute bull****; if you go back through my posts yesterday, you can't say that I "wasn't doing much", because I objectively was. I've gone over why I voted Cyan plenty of times already, and the reason I end up voting him is pretty obvious.
Voxxicus is busy doing other things, and clearly is not going to spend much time in this thread. As a result, pushing on him is not really going to make him react much (he's not going to be around), and there isn't a significant case on him by virtue of posting absolutely nothing. dC kill makes him a good candidate because of their history, as I stated before.
I figured what he meant by an ad hom defense was an insulting defense of another player. A defense is still a defense, and I wondered if he thought Vi was trying to defend Cyan-scumbuddy, or scum-Vi was white-knighting Cyan town while simultaneously discrediting him. It turns out I didn't understand what he meant by that in the first place.
I understand how your questioning of Vi lead to a vote, but the strong point that had you actually pushing Vi was claimstalling; you let everything else drop. Feel free to go back and correct me if that wasn't the case.
After Day 1 yesterday, there wasn't many people (if anyone) who expressed suspicions of me. Tammy and I expressed suspicions of Cyan. Thus, I was a harder target for scum to attack than Cyan was. Vi was a high-hanging fruit mostly because of last game, where I'd say he had the best day play of any of us. Hence, high hanging fruit being targets who are the hardest to attack. Who do you think would be higher hanging fruit?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
This list, at least, does not partake of the balls.
Nacho may be scum.
Cyouni may be scum.
Thor may be scum.
Iso may be scum.
Shouldn't we be dunking Cyouni a lot harder than we currently are?
Nacho is a really legitimate possibility though.
L-2
I've got reservations all around and the path isn't clear.
Wanna just lynch Thor?
Vote: Thor
May as well put my vote on something, even if I don't really know the answers at this stage.
Also DGB not claiming a result on Cyan makes Cyan much more reasonable as a lynch.
Especially since he just went away after being townread.
dC was the one who flipped town remember?
No I thought he bc'd the vig... on DYH/Condoms, sorry for the mixup.
"He's scum and attacked me. So I'm just going to look sad and not do anything."
You said "especially since dC kill". That implies you have something aside from that.
Yet now you say there's effectively nothing aside from the dC kill. Explain that.
See the first line of what Iso said.
See the second line of what Iso said.
You didn't say anything to any of the other points I raised when I made them.
And no, the fact that she was claimstalling wasn't the main point. It was the fact that the reasoning she gave for it didn't actually line up with reality. See everything I said.
A minute of checking tells me that Tammy expressed suspicion on you in the same one she did Cyan. So that invalidates one of your two people, the other one being yourself.
On a slightly different note, I can't see anyone being particularly hard to attack right now. Saying "no one expressed suspicion on someone" doesn't make them hard to attack.
And I'd like to hear who you expected Cyan to attack aside from you. Obviously, he couldn't attack himself.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I think Nacho is scum. I just have a really difficult time articulating WHY, and that appears to be the case with all of you guys. Your posting style(as a group) continues to be difficult for me to point to various posts and say 'I think that this is scummy for this reason'.
In Nacho's case, I still maintain that during Day 1 he pretended to be active while letting everyone else lynch Vierni, and while he sort of protested that lynch, it was mostly just lip service, because he didn't make a meaningful effort to get anyone else lynched.
And today, his defense that 'everyone else did that too/more' comes across as poorly as possible to me, as do his attempts to handwave away the fact that he said this.
You're at L-2
FAKECLAIM TIME
Although this is bull**** and is another indication that he isn't even bothering to try to figure out the game.
/*-+-*/
wondrous
TWELFTH VOTE COUNT! (I made my bed this morning!)
Voxxicus (1) - Thor665
Nachomamma8 (3) - Cyan, Iso, Kami of Lunacy
Iso (1) - Nachomamma8
Thor665 (1) - llamarable
Not Voting (3) - Tammy, Voxxicus, Cyouni
With 9 still alive, it takes 5 to lynch!
[Day Two "deadline" is December 4th.]
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
This is why you thought Cyan was town?
I don't actually know what that emoticon is, but it isn't sad. That symbol look really really cool and I didn't feel like responding to something that I had already responded to and was obviously wrong, hence that thing. It ended up looking like >.>, which summed up my mood pretty nicely.
Lurking and doing nothing generally makes people good candidates (aka there's not a whole lot that points them to not being scum), but that doesn't mean that they're good pushes at all.
Be more clear. I thought Vi's ... defense of Cyan meant that Vi was defending Cyan. I didn't see where I was misinterpreting his argument at that point.
I didn't say anything to your other points because it looked like you dropped them for a while.
There is not a significant difference between Claimstalling/not liking the reasons for claimstalling.
Who else expressed suspicion of me aside from Tammy? (No one). Tammy and I had expressed suspicion of Cyan, no one really called him a townread. Tammy was the only person calling me scummy yesterday, there were townreads on me yesterday, etc.
If Cyan wanted to attack an easier target, he could attack either you or Voxxicus without too much trouble.
Well NOW you're starting to contribute, but prior to this, you had absolutely no impact on the state of the game whatsoever - so yeah, you were staying below the radar.
Um...what?
This is utter bull****. mollie endgamed and won for the other scumteam. You ARE completely ignoring context. Talk to me when you're not going to just spout lies that nobody else is going to bother checking up on.
I don't even remember you being in that game.
My explanations for Cyanscum are in Day 1.
As for the Vi thing, Vi was the first person not to do it, dodged my questions, etc. So naturally I looked at Vi first, and she continued to add to her repertoire of scummy behavior. It read a lot to me like the way mollie evaded my questioning in Bowser's Potluck, actually, which is one reason why I was so convinced I was right.
You're saying I'm not trying to figure out the game...which is exactly why I asked Voxx to post something to help me parse his alignment, right?
I have two townreads.
Two.
When everyone's posting at such an intermittent frequency, there's not much I can do about that except ask questions and read into their posts when they do actually post.
Additionally, I typically have more town reads that what I have right now - this is the exact opposite of what I'm used to. There are certain nuances and behaviors once can pick up on that you'd expect town to portray; I'm getting very few of those from a number of other players at this point in time. Usually, I can discount other people from being lynch targets based on this. However, as it is, I can only go for who I think is the scummiest at this point in time - that being Nacho and Cyan at this point, who I don't believe can be scum together.
So how about you be a doll, get the ball rolling, and have an impact on the state of the game, mmkay?
Voting anybody steps on their toes, RVS or not. Making a point not to vote for a player or someone in particular (i.e. not yourself) looks nervous. So when you're asked, "Hey, why are you avoiding tying yourself to anyone in RVS by voting for them?", it's a damn valid question and you'd better answer it.
Because it's unnatural scum behavior and I've noticed people trying to dodge out of RVS scum meta as of late. WIFOM's been the name of the game lately, and I had no intention of allowing myself to be duped in the event that my paranoia was correct.
Yes, which is why I said "I guess I can see why a few things I did yesterDay are questionable" - because I didn't draw the parallel to me in the last Crosstown game and Vi in this one.
Answer me.
Well first, llama was the one who was buffoonish enough in the last game to buy into Thor's WIFOM - which is never good in the hands of a Vig. Secondly, Thor didn't "bury" me - he just numbed everyone else's mind (barring Cyan, maybe) to the point of where they decided not to think about what was going on. Finally, I wasn't just talking about the Tammy thing or the "it happened once" thing, but also the thing about the Vi/Cyan ad hom defense.
Please do.
Cyan will lynch whoever he thinks he can/needs to as scum. See his lynch of WellOfLostGnomes in MTGS Mafia Redux 2's Invitational. Who exactly do you think is the highest fruit on the tree?
This is probably the biggest reason I have a town read on Thor right now.
Because I'm not scum.
Not really.
Go hump a cactus.
-
hi nacho claim
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Still doesn't fit if you thought he was scum. "He's scum and attacked me. So I'm just going to and not do anything."
You said he's a 'great' candidate - not just good. One would expect you to have more than nothing.
One would also expect you to push on someone you think is a
goodgreat candidate for being scum.> "Rather, Vi wasn't defending Cyan, either."
That's rather self-explanatory. A simple statement of fact.
> "It's like you didn't even read Day 1 and you're taking what I'm saying, misinterpreting it, and then using it as the basis for your push."
It's like you didn't read Day 1 (in other words, knowing that Vi wasn't defending Cyan), and you took what he said ("Vi's ad hom defense of Cyan"), misinterpreted it, and then used it as the basis for your push (Vi was defending Cyan).
I'm pretty sure there's nothing except plain English there.
That wouldn't preclude you from answering them at the point when they were brought up.
And reasons for an action =/= the action. That's a pretty big difference.
There was one townread on you from alive people, and that was from llamarble. If you're counting Vi's opinions into the mix, then his opinion on Cyan and me would also be in there, invalidating your point.
And we're drifting aside from the point. "Very little suspicion on someone" (actually, that's a pretty good description of half the game at that point) isn't the qualification for "highest fruit on the tree".
I draw a comparison to last game, where:
So I know you're willing to do it as town. The question is, why not here? Where's the explanation here?
The rule still holds despite the ONE exception.
You feel like the game we played in which you were scum. You don't look like the tales of game I followed where you were town. The particulars don't matter, you don't feel like you're trying to figure out this game.
Ending of. Finito.
Someone said day one that he's best read late day one, day two. That might have been Dc though.
Can someone tell me if he always has the kind of nitpicky scum hunting? Like for instance questioning nacho on his use of the word especially denoting that he would have another reason. That just feels so mechanical to me.
@Tammy: ur rong etc.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
1) the RVS point is seriously dumb and only the ****tiest of players are afraid to vote someone in RVS. It's safe to say that none of us fit in that category.
2) see above.
3) OK.
4) forgot the question, scrolling is hard right now. I'll look it up and probably be pissed when I answer it.
5) not realizing that you meant that vi was attacking cyan when you said Vi's defense of cyan isn't miscontruing anything. Burying someone versus numbing everyone else is the exact same thing in my mind.
6) Tammy is pretty much the only high hanging fruit left. Before day 2, things seemed a bit clearer. What does this have to do with anything?
Who is your other town read and why?
Great and good are two words that mean positive things. I think he's a great candidate for scum, but his inactivity means that he's a poor candidate to push. It doesn't mean that I have wonderful reasons for voting him (or else probably would be voting him). I just think that he's a solid candidate for scum.
"Vi wasn't defending Cyan" is self explanatory, yes. It doesn't make sense when it is paired up with an earliern comment that suggested Vi WAS defending Cyan. So I pointed out his previous comment. Where did I use this in a push? What did I misconstrue?
I wasn't interested in your points when you made them; I didn't bring them up when referring to your later Vi push because you dropped them. I don't understand the big difference; your push on Vi was because he didn't explain his claimstalling awesomely enough. If you didn't care about claim stalling in the first place, you wouldn't care about his explanation for it.
I was high hanging fruit because I was active, I posted a ton of good ****, there are three people here who can read me well from our side (Thor probably can too, but he's always scum when we play together or I'm trying to mislynch him soo). I was high hanging fruit because generally I don't have a problem connecting with a lot of players on this player list, I am hard to lynch under pressure because I become town in one way or another, I am high hanging fruit because not a lot of people really cared to lynch me yesterday. The point was that I was an odd target for cyan to go after as scum. Do you disagree? Is mislynching me proving as easy as you hoped it would be? Do you understand what I'm talking about when I talk about opportunistic targets and not opportunistic targets, and what does my reasoning on me being a hard target have to do with anything?
Here is dc's cyouni quote, and right now, this feels a lot more like the latter.
Let's hang him now.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Your iso function sucks, so some housekeeping I can look at in one place.
Marble - do you remember how DYH interacted with fate last game?
"Especially regarding that series of posts from Fate - it was all rather pointless. It feels like a lot of his stuff has been that way- I can't remember anything specific he's done. Very high noise-to-content ratio based on the number of posts. Is this typical? "
He decided cyan was likely town after questioning, expressed concern about desc and iso, called Thor town, Vi town, and kami scum and liked desc's question to cyouni.
I think that his interaction with cyouni and iso sounds the fakest and the case on kami has me worried.
I think I'm going to try to find another scum game of dyh's over the holiday and see if last game is more typical or less.
Let's focus on people who are alive.