If I pushed Cyouni and he was lynched instead, Llamarble would probably have shot dC considering the mutual tunnel for most of the game. Freeing him up from dC was a great thing.
Post hoc justifications aside, you do realize that by that logic "freeing him up from dC" would have done nothing. Also, and let me make sure this is clear, "freeing him up from dC was a great thing" implies that your conscious choice to mislynch desCoures was a good thing.
It wasn't a conscious choice to mislynch him, no.
But there's such a thing as a good mislynch and a bad mislynch.
Mislynches that leave you with the game solved are good mislynches, mislynches that leave you feeling like an idiot and asking why the hell you just did what you did are bad mislynches. projectmatt in Wingate Mansion: good mislynch. Amethyst Kitty in HunterxHunter: bad mislynch. Llamarble's shots: good misvigs. That time I got vigged N1 because of Antihero's paranoia in some Mini Normal: bad misvig.
Cyan is the closest to being someone who looks town as hell
And yet Cyan's lurking kind of makes me want to throw it the other way. That should be fun to defend.
What I really mean to say to whichever of you two is Town is .
oh pshhhhh
I'm pulling my weight in LyLo.
I look decently town, I'm being pretty transparent. I'll probably type up something incredibly heartfelt tomorrow and at least try to explain my weirder thought process in a more focused, less weird way so you stop freaking out on me, hopefully.
That just means I'll end up dead and you kids get to have this fun on Day 5.
Deadline is tomorrow night, though, not tonight.
Cyan's lack of effort here is pretty annoying because I think I'm right.
You don't seem to be even considering the possibility that you're wrong, which is unbelievably frustrating for me. My play this LyLo hasn't been bad. It hasn't been scummy. I think I've pointed out Cyan's big flaws, but I feel it's just me and Vi doing our dance and you lurking in the background and just watching, waiting. He's trying to sort me out because I'm who he's more familiar with. Why aren't you trying to sort Cyan out and instead letting him drift through the waters of this game?
I just don't have that much confidence that Nacho is scum over anyone else. Hell, I'm partially convinced that DYH is a Godfather.
Like I am literally split 45/35/20(Nacho/Vi/DYH), and I don't want to cast my vote when it's that close.
I didn't realize that the deadline was tomorrow though, that is awfully soon for a day that started like a week ago.
Because this is ****ing bull****. We all know that Cyan is going to vote me in the end because I'm not going to vote Vi or DYH ever, and we know that I'm the chosen mislynch. But still he keeps his options open and he waffles because it's going fine for him, all he needs is Vi to make the jump and he's going to bring the hammer down. He has not made any pushes towards anyone. In MYLO. In the very last day of the game. I don't care who you are, you usually just don't throw the game in MyLo.
Take, for example, the strong position I've taken on Vi today, the strong position I've taken on him. If he was town, that should be worrisome since everyone should be on the same level, on the same page, and EVERYONE should be voting the scum. But he's let that read on him stagnate, and he's left me all alone like a crazy person saying "cyan scum, cyan scum". He could be 33/33/33 on all three of us and he would STILL know that's a bad position to take. But he's perfectly fine with just sitting there and going "yep, I have no idea what's going on". That is not a townie's position. That is coasting scum riding their bike with no handlebars.
And yet Cyan's lurking kind of makes me want to throw it the other way. That should be fun to defend.
What I really mean to say to whichever of you two is Town is .
oh pshhhhh
I'm pulling my weight in LyLo.
I look decently town, I'm being pretty transparent. I'll probably type up something incredibly heartfelt tomorrow and at least try to explain my weirder thought process in a more focused, less weird way so you stop freaking out on me, hopefully.
That just means I'll end up dead and you kids get to have this fun on Day 5.
Deadline is tomorrow night, though, not tonight.
Cyan's lack of effort here is pretty annoying because I think I'm right.
You don't seem to be even considering the possibility that you're wrong, which is unbelievably frustrating for me. My play this LyLo hasn't been bad. It hasn't been scummy. I think I've pointed out Cyan's big flaws, but I feel it's just me and Vi doing our dance and you lurking in the background and just watching, waiting. He's trying to sort me out because I'm who he's more familiar with. Why aren't you trying to sort Cyan out and instead letting him drift through the waters of this game?
I just don't have that much confidence that Nacho is scum over anyone else. Hell, I'm partially convinced that DYH is a Godfather.
Like I am literally split 45/35/20(Nacho/Vi/DYH), and I don't want to cast my vote when it's that close.
I didn't realize that the deadline was tomorrow though, that is awfully soon for a day that started like a week ago.
Because this is ****ing bull****. We all know that Cyan is going to vote me in the end because I'm not going to vote Vi or DYH ever, and we know that I'm the chosen mislynch. But still he keeps his options open and he waffles because it's going fine for him, all he needs is Vi to make the jump and he's going to bring the hammer down. He has not made any pushes towards anyone. In MYLO. In the very last day of the game. I don't care who you are, you usually just don't throw the game in MyLo.
Take, for example, the strong position I've taken on Vi today, the strong position I've taken on him. If he was town, that should be worrisome since everyone should be on the same level, on the same page, and EVERYONE should be voting the scum. But he's let that read on him stagnate, and he's left me all alone like a crazy person saying "cyan scum, cyan scum". He could be 33/33/33 on all three of us and he would STILL know that's a bad position to take. But he's perfectly fine with just sitting there and going "yep, I have no idea what's going on". That is not a townie's position. That is coasting scum riding their bike with no handlebars.
This doesn't seem like a town reaction.
And really, how can you think I am scum at this point? Vi came into the day straight up voting you, and my choice was to question him on that. Why would anyone EVER EVER EVER do that as scum? Even if you want to argue that I didn't want to appear overly eager, I could have just played it cool until DYH got around to voting you also. For me, as scum, to call out someone that is putting me one vote closer to winning the game would be complete nonsense. I might not be as good at this game as you MS guys, but I am not AWFUL, and that is what that would be.
I just don't have that much confidence that Nacho is scum over anyone else. Hell, I'm partially convinced that DYH is a Godfather.
Like I am literally split 45/35/20(Nacho/Vi/DYH), and I don't want to cast my vote when it's that close.
I didn't realize that the deadline was tomorrow though, that is awfully soon for a day that started like a week ago.
I don't believe a word of this. There is no way in the clear blue sky that you are that conflicted about DYH having some means of being a false negative to a Gunsmith that three different people on this site have never heard of. There is no way in the clear blue sky that you actually think I'm anywhere near Nacho-tier scumminess given what you've put out against me Today, which amounts to "you voted early when it was perfectly safe". And there is no way in the clear blue sky that, given that you're so conflicted, you refuse to post in this thread to do anything about it.
Quote from Nacho 1452 »
Amethyst Kitty in HunterxHunter: bad mislynch.
Actually it was a preventable mislynch but not a bad one.
Quote from Cyan 1454 »
This doesn't seem like a town reaction.
At this point I don't think you know what a Town reaction looks like.
Wow look at that huge overreaction by Vierni. If I were scum, clearly I would just have gone along with Nacho today, given that he is plainly the easier of the two of you to wagon.
You tried to pull that card already, Cyan. Although I don't know what "playing it cool" means in your book because in my book it means a bit of lurking, a bit of waffling, no strong positions, slowly crawling into your Nacho-scum position after someone votes me. I don't think that you questioning Vi on my vote was tearing the roof off of any proverbial houses. I think immediately crashing into you to start out the MyLo was closer to tearing off the roof than your little question was.
Actually, no, that could have been prevented (or rather, made a lot more interesting) by forcing deadline. In that context I'm not that thrilled about Zionite extending it without anyone asking - I wanted Night to fall.
Also, I checked to see if I had to commit a kill - to which the answer was no. Cyan's paranoia about all of us being potential scum was probably driving me to that choice (not killing).
Fair, though under the circumstances the deadline extension helped scum a lot more than Town. The Day was basically this (albeit less entertaining) and stretching it on for another four days doesn't seem like a good idea from a game facilitation point of view.
I had an ability, I just chose never to use it - I didn't want to accidentally get in the way. I was a Jailer - not a roleblocker.
I expected Voxx to be the kill, so I did not jail him. Jailing Llamarble would have made no sense since his ability triggered during the day (or so he said). Also, was entirely truthful- thought he was bluffing the second shot.
@Vierni: I figured it would happen given the extension from D1 - although I expected three days (# to lynch I believe was used earlier), not four.
Fair, though under the circumstances the deadline extension helped scum a lot more than Town. The Day was basically this (albeit less entertaining) and stretching it on for another four days doesn't seem like a good idea from a game facilitation point of view.
Cyan has been cleared of suspicion in the investigation into the Dexter homicide case.
[MTGS] Cyan Town Vanilla Captain Donahue
You are Captain Donahue, the man in charge of operations at the local precinct. You oversee dozens of cases at a time, giving each a cursory oversight to make sure procedure is followed. Because of this, you have only a basic knowledge of the Jean Dexter case. You trust your squad to do good police work, and from time to time you direct them toward your preferred course of action. You work in the 10th precinct in the Chelsea district of New York. A rather shabby building on a rather shabby street. Acts of violence in Manhattan are reported to the third floor of this building. Because here, rather quietly, the Homicide squad does it's work.
Town Vanilla do not have any abilities.
You win when the Mafia team is wiped out.
__________
Two women sit together in a coffee shop in the Chelsea district...
"Say, Mrs. Batory, did they ever catch the guy responsible for what happened to Jean?" Martha Swenson cautiously asked.
"No," Mrs. Batory replied teary-eyed, "he managed to skip town during the investigation. They caught the murderers, which I am grateful for. But they let the accomplice get away. There's no telling where he is now; probably living off the wealth he stole from his victims."
"It's a shame really. A sign of the times I suppose; when are we going to get a public service force that uses the head on their shoulders?"
[MS] Nachomamma8 Town Vanilla Mrs. Batory
You are Mrs. Batory, mother of the victim Jean Dexter. You live out of town with your husband, but after hearing the news, you are called in by Homicide squad to help them in their investigation. Unfortunately you don't know much about the case or who Jean knew while she lived in New York. Despite this, your feeling of responsibility for your daughter compels you to assist in finding her killers. You resent Jean for leaving home even after your warnings, saying time and time again "I hate her" before viewing the body and breaking down into tears.
Town Vanilla do not have any abilities.
You win when the Mafia team is wiped out.
[MS] Vierni Town Vanilla Martha Swenson
You are Martha Swenson, a housekeeper who stumbled upon poor Jean Dexter's body in the bathtub. Panicked, you removed the body from the bathtub with the help of the building manager and obstructed the Homicide squad's investigation. You are prone to flattery on a normal day, but on this day you are in shock. Regardless, you help the Homicide squad in every way you can.
Town Vanilla do not have any abilities.
You win when the Mafia team is wiped out.
__________
Frank Niles is on a train, speeding West to California at 85 miles per hour. He wears a pin-striped suit, holding a New York newspaper in front of his face, both to learn about the Dexter investigation and to hide his face from prying eyes. He sips at a bourbon on the rocks that he has no intention of paying for, contemplating his next big score in the land of opportunity.
[MTGS] DYH Mafia Traitor Jailer Frank Niles
You are Frank Niles, an accomplice to Jean Dexter and others in a burglary conspiracy. You've managed to seem innocent to the Homicide squad so far, and being engaged to Ruth Morrison lowers suspicion about your connection to Dexter. You also have a rock solid alibi placing you away from the scene of the murder at the time it went down. However, you're a thief being caught in a web of your own mistruths, a side-effect of your compulsive lying. You'll have to learn to lie where it matters and be truthful when it doesn't if you want to keep the Homicide squad off your case.
You know your teammates are Fate (Willie Garza) and Thor665 (Pete Backalis), but they don't know who you are. You join the team officially when you are targeted by the Mafia night kill or both your teammates are dead. You do not currently have the ability to activate the Mafia kill. However, due to your amazing skill at deflecting the police time and time again, you have the ability to jail a target at night. Your selected target will be both roleblocked and protected from a kill, if any.
Quote from False Claim »
Town Vanilla Detective Perelli
You are Detective Perelli, one of Homicide squad's resident investigators. You fact check answers that interrogations produce, revealing Frank Niles as a compulsive liar who still owes a food and liquor bill of $110.83. You work in the 10th precinct in the Chelsea district of New York. A rather shabby building on a rather shabby street. Acts of violence in Manhattan are reported to the third floor of this building. Because here, rather quietly, the Homicide squad does it's work.
Town Vanilla do not have any abilities.
You win when the Mafia team is wiped out.
You win when the Town team no longer has the majority of the population.
It's 1:00 in the morning, again. And this is the city. And these are the lights that a child, born to the name of Batory, hungered for. Her passion has been played out now. Her name, her face, her history, were worth five cents a day for four days. Tomorrow, a new case will hit the headlines. Yet some will remember Jean Dexter. She won't be entirely forgotten. Not entirely. Not altogether.
There are 8 million stories in The Naked City. This, has been one of them.
Congratulations Mafia Team, Aggressive_Fate, Thor665, and DYH, for winning Cross-Town Game #1, The Naked City Mafia!
Mafia Chat
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Arnnaria will be posting the scores in this thread as soon as it is complete. It was a pleasure to run this game! A real nail-biter through the end. Well played everyone.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@DYH: I knew it on Day 1 from the way that you came at me. Oh well.
Great job not lynching me Day 2 when I told you guys to in order to avoid this exact situation. But hey, scum that are already down a guy make statements like that all of the time, right?
I'm pretty bitter about this entire game, I'm not sure I'll be participating in the next one. The game was never enjoyable for me at any point, and I don't really see how that is going to change.
Arnnaria will be posting the scores in this thread as soon as it is complete. It was a pleasure to run this game! A real nail-biter through the end. Well played everyone.
Not really? The only people that played well were DYH, who had a very unique position that was easy to exploit, and Voxx. Everyone else's play was miserable, and if they don't realize it, they need a reality check.
Not really? The only people that played well were DYH, who had a very unique position that was easy to exploit, and Voxx. Everyone else's play was miserable, and if they don't realize it, they need a reality check.
Not really? The only people that played well were DYH, who had a very unique position that was easy to exploit, and Voxx. Everyone else's play was miserable, and if they don't realize it, they need a reality check.
I thought the game was very well designed. Instead of doing a cop/godfather which would feed the town false info (expected), the same result was achieved with a gunsmith/traitor (unexpected). I think the goal was to test the town's ability to trust their reads over their info roles. Voxx would have never investigated DYH if he didn't read him as scum.
The town should have no lynched. It would have better pointed at DYH being scum.
That said, I liked what Tanarin and the gang created with this setup. The only reason you're sour on it is because you were trying to game the setup, Cyan.
When did I *ever* try to game the setup in this game? I have zero problems with the game setup. Literally zero.
And no lynching would not have accomplished anything, because the scum just wouldn't have killed anyone. I suggested the NL anyway because there was no harm in it, but it was unlikely to actually work.
A traitor, hmm? Pretty sure that's Cyan's least favorite role of all time.
Read along early in the game. Regardless of how you feel about the ending, the level of play in what I read was pretty impressive, and I'll be interested to see (or participate in) the next round.
EDs: By way of explanation of where Cyan is coming from:
-Traitor/Alignment Switching Roles
Game moderators are strongly encouraged to be extraordinarily careful if they seek to include a traitor role in their designs. These roles are notorious for causing games to implode, for creating fairness concerns, and for the challenge they pose to the town's behavioral analysis. (See Discussion in Council Thread, Post 3351, onwards.)
Really? So it's just me? The town got one lynch right, and it was based entirely on AF being meta'd by other people from MS.
Traitor is, in fact, my least favorite role ever, and one that should never be included in a mafia game. But I don't have a problem with how it was implemented here, because DYH knew he was scum. His role was closer to Godfather, which is a fine role. Not everyone would have been able to turn the drawback of being set apart from your scumbuddies into a boon, but DYH is a good enough player that he was able to do exactly that. His role was skill-intensive, but rewarded good play. That is how it should be. DYH won this game pretty much single-handedly, and he deserved it. I recognized his scum play on Day 1, but it was based on tremendous personal history with him, and I was never going to get him lynched based on that in this type of setup.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
After having some time to think about it, I still believe the setup dictated most of what happened.
*Vigs on fairly Town players, in spite of it being "in the interest of the Town at large", cost the Town a lynch (though this didn't matter in the end, and you decide whether Iso or Cyouni would otherwise have been lynched) (also yes I do feel bad for putting my D2 vote on Cyouni)
*The Gunsmith nailed the second scum and gave the third scum a free ticket to endgame
*One drawback to the whole "unexpected Godfather" thing is that it was, well, unexpected. If no one can think of any way that a Gunsmith can produce a false negative, and that's what happens, that's closer to a bastard blindside than clever. (That said, the way it was set up was highly obscure but fair by the book.)
I don't know if scum would have won if the Gunsmith results had gone differently. Without the Gunsmith result Thor stood a decent chance at LyLo, although I don't know how DYH would have done without the clear.
Other things...
*The M:tGS side, minus Iso, was amazingly inactive. Like, this is your home site. WHERE WERE YOU. Yes, I get that desCoures has his schedule and Voxxicus was on holiday for some of it but there was no reason I should have been checking in at the end of each day and routinely finding that my post from the night before was still the most recent one. The ONLY reason Thor got as much playtime as he did Day 3 was because Voxxicus and Cyan (and DYH, though that makes things rather interesting) made themselves scarce and gave Thor time to let his voice be the only one speaking. It's said that it's awfully hard to talk your way out of a Cop result, but Thor did an excellent job of it and he couldn't have done it alone.
*I work full time and I posted more vote counts than Zionite. In addition, I maintain that forcing deadline was equivalent to No Lynch and that my opt for the "best Town play" was taken from me by scum.
*I think that, in general, most people played a good game. It didn't work out the way most of those people wanted by any means, but I can tell why the M:tGS people were invited to represent their site.
As should be obvious, I'm not really happy with how this turned out, but it is what it is. I took the slot, did my best, and didn't completely embarrass myself. Who could ask for anything more ♪
Thank you for letting me play here. I think in another game there will be a fair bit less culture shock, which will lead to a somewhat more pleasant experience (by Mafia standards).
M:tGS players - there's an old meta that softclaiming is scummy. In this game, Iso did it (as V. Townie), DYH did it (as M. Jailer), and Voxxicus did it (as Gunsmith) so I'm wondering if that catchphrase gets any playtime over here.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
About the vote counts: I don't have access to my computer and notes until late at night, and by that time Vi had already posted a good VC. I think only one of them was miscounted. That, and I like to be as hands-off as possible. I don't like to interrupt the game unless necessary or requested. The reasoning for that is its not my game, it's the players' game. I just facilitate play.
For the next game ill let the host know to keep the vote counts more frequent.
My name is Arn (to those I haven't met yet) and I'm going to be scoring this game. It's my birthday weekend so I will have a limited amount of time this particular weekend, but I will have scores posted at latest by 1700 Pacific 10/14/2013.
If you have any questions, comments, or concerns about the rubric and how it will be applied to this game, please PM me them or post in thread.
Thanks and ton and congratulations to the scum team for a close game.
Not really? The only people that played well were DYH, who had a very unique position that was easy to exploit, and Voxx. Everyone else's play was miserable, and if they don't realize it, they need a reality check.
I disagree.
How's that?
Well...how did everyone play so bad?
I thought you and Nacho both played a decent game. Nacho did better later and you better earlier, but neither of you were bad townies inherently.
I thought Vi actually played a very good game.
I think I played a good game.
I feel you are mistaking 'right' with 'played well'
Played well has so many levels and meanings to it - functionally Voxx played both well (spotted 2/3 scum) and also played poorly (didn't look town enough to prevent being run up for claim)
DYH also played well (distancing, and managing to soft sell through a lynch) and played poorly (highly suspected)
The end question is one of overall advancement of the win condition though, and as far as that went I think a lot of players played hard, played well, and didn't just derp it up. Now, they made some bad assumptions (both town *and* scum made poor decisions based off setup spec) but that doesn't mean they played badly - it means they were wrong. Which is quite different from bad.
"Not really? The only people that played well were DYH, who had a very unique position that was easy to exploit, and Voxx. Everyone else's play was miserable, and if they don't realize it, they need a reality check."
Eh, when Voxx claimed D2 I wrote this game off as a non-stellar-but-good-enough-to-win performance.
Removing Vi/Cyan for towniness and Voxx/DYH/llamarble due to roles, we had 4 eliminations to take care of Nacho, Thor, Cyouni, and DesCoures.
I had a "DYH is sketchy but roleinfo is roleinfo" post and Thor was under vig consideration D2.
Lynching Fate D1 was a Good Thing.
I didn't play awesome this game (running up KoL was lame and I did miss my shots) but I didn't suck hard either. Same goes for much of the rest of the players.
Fate for example got lynched D1 but it was on a hard to predict pivot after DGB and I rolecleared.
Losing to wrong role results is part of mafia (3 of my 8 town losses >_>).
It's almost never good play to mistrust your innocent investigation results and I think town actually did a pretty good job of doubting DYH.
Based on this game I think the level of play on our sites is pretty similar.
I look forward to playing game 2, though if it would be possible to host it as an invitational on MS (our isolation feature is extremely powerful) I would definitely vote for that.
*One drawback to the whole "unexpected Godfather" thing is that it was, well, unexpected. If no one can think of any way that a Gunsmith can produce a false negative, and that's what happens, that's closer to a bastard blindside than clever. (That said, the way it was set up was highly obscure but fair by the book.)
I feel awkward about this though.
It was clear to town that scum didn't have a roleblocker (or had some way to not have access to a roleblock via limited activation people)
Also, town had specifically theorized that there was a GF - which is why the lack of cop kill made sense.
I don't know why you all decided that the Gunsmith would then be immune to a GF effect - at that stage what PR did you think scum had for balance after I flipped goon?
Rolecop?
Eh - I think you all let yourselves get blinded on that aspect due to the love of investigations.
I don't know if scum would have won if the Gunsmith results had gone differently. Without the Gunsmith result Thor stood a decent chance at LyLo, although I don't know how DYH would have done without the clear.
I agree with this. But different Gunsmith results would have made different cleared town, and yadda, yadda. But the core idea holds.
*The M:tGS side, minus Iso, was amazingly inactive.
I agree with this - let's just chain lynch them all on policy next game
I actually didn't think it was bad till after Voxx's claim - it felt like they all shut down then. There's a reason I was making that an emotional keynote for me, because it would have been very frustrating to Thortown.
*I think that, in general, most people played a good game. It didn't work out the way most of those people wanted by any means, but I can tell why the M:tGS people were invited to represent their site.
About the vote counts: I don't have access to my computer and notes until late at night, and by that time Vi had already posted a good VC. I think only one of them was miscounted. That, and I like to be as hands-off as possible. I don't like to interrupt the game unless necessary or requested. The reasoning for that is its not my game, it's the players' game. I just facilitate play.
For the next game ill let the host know to keep the vote counts more frequent.
Please do.
I'll also admit - I don't care if a player is doing vote counts, the mod should do them regardless.
Also, I submit she started doing them from a feeling of a lack of them, and I agree with that feeling as I found their regularity to be lacking in my opinion as well. Hands off is brilliant, but vote counts should not fall within that aspect - I like them daily, personally, but consider once every 2-3 days appropriate regardless.
There's nothing ~game-influencing~ about vote counts unless you have mechanics pertaining to when the moderator is online (which shouldn't apply here). It also helps in case I get something wrong. <.<
I usually put vote counts up when I have no idea how things are. No comment on how often that occurs.
Quote from Thor »
I don't know why you all decided that the Gunsmith would then be immune to a GF effect - at that stage what PR did you think scum had for balance after I flipped goon?
Rolecop?
Eh - I think you all let yourselves get blinded on that aspect due to the love of investigations.
I was still a fan of Bulletproof. Plus, surely you admit investigation-immune people aren't that common on mafiascum. And in the end, I felt reliant on the M:tGS people to tell me what their meta was like, because I didn't really have any solid ideas (Bulletproof being the next best thing).
Quote from llamarble »
running up KoL was lame
Running up KoL was awesome and there is no blame to be assigned for it. <___<
Rolecop and Bulletproof with a Doc and a Gunsmith and a 2-shot Vig.
Mmmmm, doable...but why did they decide then to shoot the Vig and not the Gunsmith?
I don't really want to judge that conclusion, when you're in the town hotseat it's always different than armchairing it; I'm just not sure that makes sense as a scum play if I was the non BP one.
Speaking generally, a vig (assuming I had a third shot, as I was projecting to draw the shot away from voxx) is a bigger problem for scum than a cop:
Supposing no GF and the DYH result accurate, and strong townreads on Vi/Cyan:
We got 4 shots to eliminate Thor, Nacho, dC, and Cyouni.
If scum left me alive and I had an additional shot, we would have 5 shots and could eliminate someone else as a bonus. If Voxx got another innocent, assuming it's treated like a full clear we get 5 shots and can eliminate someone not from that list. But because Voxx got a guilty, we only get to eliminate the 4 in that list.
I also intentionally did not reveal my target because the scum only benefit from a vig/cop overlap if they shoot the vig (which is what I wanted them to do because I had no followup action).
Family visiting, so I'll post more thoughts later - but here's the basic rundown from me:
- Pregame: I hate this role.
- Should I claim miller? (That would have been an epic disaster)
- Game: I have a reputation to uphold (I get Day 1 right a lot- 5/6 since returning).
- I pick Thor to distance/bus.
- That ends up consuming most of the day. At that point, hoping for 'tunnel DYH is town read' from MTGS crew. Voxx later obliges, but b/c of inspection.
- The vote/unvote of Cyan was an attempt to gain his confidence by buddying up to him, calling him town. Scenario I referred to was legit, though.
- I get so deep in Thor case I had to ensure he died before me. Thor dead scum = basically cleared me. Me dead traitor revealed = questionable cred for Thor (argument could be I was intentionally trying to get his attention).
...I can't say I didn't see this coming when I saw the extension yesterday. Which is why I made the effort to check in today, for that matter.
I promised words after the game, but I don't really feel like throwing in a whole bitter tirade right now. I'll simply say this - Voxxicus, you had good gut reads. You should have trusted them. And given that now this is the second game in a very short time you've been in that featured an all-town L-2 wagon on town... the next time you attempt to use that argument with absolutely no behavioural backup to try to lynch someone, I'll take it as a sign that you're scum and will lynch you.
Other comments:
* I said not to shoot Cyouni. So of course Cyouni was shot. Feh.
* As far as the comments on MtGS activity - in general, fair enough. However, I have to utterly disagree that we 'all shut down' after Voxx's claim. I meant every word when I said that I was probably putting in the most effort that game day. And looking at day 2 I'm not entirely certain any MtGS player posted less than, say, llamarble, for instance.
* That being said, I suspect that the fact that the only remaining active game mod among the MtGS players was the scum contributed to the fact that no one seemed to find it odd that the game essentially had a cop/doc/vig versus... a rolecop and apparently no other role of significance.
(Also, I only realize now that Zionite sent a spectator chat link quite a bit afterwards... which I never saw because I had no active games ongoing. Heh.)
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Oh, and also - Vierni, I was highly impressed by your play. I actually wish we had more players like you here. Thor - you had me utterly fooled with how genuine you sounded, although now I get that a lot of that frustration was actually genuine, just with scum motivation.
Expect more wariness towards both of you from me if I actually play in the next one.
Private Mod Note
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Honestly I'm not sure why you'd shoot the Vig in general.
<- did not read the QTs
Short answer is; game balance didn't make sense with a Cop to me, so I decided he was probably a Tracker and thus the soft clear, worst case a JOAT who had already burnt his shot. Either case - probably not cop.
I didn't realize my traitor was a roleblocker/GF in order for game balance to still make any sense at all.
Therefore I shot the Vig, who I figured was full Vig.
Speaking generally, a vig (assuming I had a third shot, as I was projecting to draw the shot away from voxx) is a bigger problem for scum than a cop:
Depends very much on setup and moment - but I actually disagree with this since a Cop's 'kills' though slightly less trustworthy on their flips, tend to strengthen town, whilst Vig kills can weaken it.
Don't get me wrong, I love Vigs, and would rather be a Vig than almost any other town PR. I just don't think they're as powerful as sane Cops.
* As far as the comments on MtGS activity - in general, fair enough. However, I have to utterly disagree that we 'all shut down' after Voxx's claim. I meant every word when I said that I was probably putting in the most effort that game day. And looking at day 2 I'm not entirely certain any MtGS player posted less than, say, llamarble, for instance. [/quote\
To clarify - I meant shut down after his claim about me, Day 3. Town went totally silent from your side of things. It was me debating with Nacho and Vi all day.
Also, if we're pulling out the claimed and believed (and sadly lurking) PR as the standard for which to weigh you guys against on Day 2. Well, yes, I'll agree...but I don't think that's exactly a shining example of win.
[QUOTE=desCoures;/comments/12589955]* That being said, I suspect that the fact that the only remaining active game mod among the MtGS players was the scum contributed to the fact that no one seemed to find it odd that the game essentially had a cop/doc/vig versus... a rolecop and apparently no other role of significance.
I found it odd
But no one believed me for some reason...
But, yes, you're probably right here.
Thor - you had me utterly fooled with how genuine you sounded, although now I get that a lot of that frustration was actually genuine, just with scum motivation.
I try to avoid ever saying anything I don't believe when scum.
I am often accredited as tough to discern and tough to lynch as scum.
But, yes, I was certainly frustrated during parts of the game because I felt like an uniformed minority (And, indeed, I was - DYH was the informed minority in this game, and the rest of us were all in the dark to varying degrees)
Expect more wariness towards both of you from me if I actually play in the next one.
I get that a lot...:(
Also, i rather hope all of you come back for the next one, the repetition with high level players is something I personally am most interested about in this series.
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If the lynch threshold is not met, the day will end by No Lynch.
It wasn't a conscious choice to mislynch him, no.
But there's such a thing as a good mislynch and a bad mislynch.
Mislynches that leave you with the game solved are good mislynches, mislynches that leave you feeling like an idiot and asking why the hell you just did what you did are bad mislynches. projectmatt in Wingate Mansion: good mislynch. Amethyst Kitty in HunterxHunter: bad mislynch. Llamarble's shots: good misvigs. That time I got vigged N1 because of Antihero's paranoia in some Mini Normal: bad misvig.
...that I pushed.
oh pshhhhh
I'm pulling my weight in LyLo.
I look decently town, I'm being pretty transparent. I'll probably type up something incredibly heartfelt tomorrow and at least try to explain my weirder thought process in a more focused, less weird way so you stop freaking out on me, hopefully.
You don't seem to be even considering the possibility that you're wrong, which is unbelievably frustrating for me. My play this LyLo hasn't been bad. It hasn't been scummy. I think I've pointed out Cyan's big flaws, but I feel it's just me and Vi doing our dance and you lurking in the background and just watching, waiting. He's trying to sort me out because I'm who he's more familiar with. Why aren't you trying to sort Cyan out and instead letting him drift through the waters of this game?
Because this is ****ing bull****. We all know that Cyan is going to vote me in the end because I'm not going to vote Vi or DYH ever, and we know that I'm the chosen mislynch. But still he keeps his options open and he waffles because it's going fine for him, all he needs is Vi to make the jump and he's going to bring the hammer down. He has not made any pushes towards anyone. In MYLO. In the very last day of the game. I don't care who you are, you usually just don't throw the game in MyLo.
Take, for example, the strong position I've taken on Vi today, the strong position I've taken on him. If he was town, that should be worrisome since everyone should be on the same level, on the same page, and EVERYONE should be voting the scum. But he's let that read on him stagnate, and he's left me all alone like a crazy person saying "cyan scum, cyan scum". He could be 33/33/33 on all three of us and he would STILL know that's a bad position to take. But he's perfectly fine with just sitting there and going "yep, I have no idea what's going on". That is not a townie's position. That is coasting scum riding their bike with no handlebars.
This doesn't seem like a town reaction.
And really, how can you think I am scum at this point? Vi came into the day straight up voting you, and my choice was to question him on that. Why would anyone EVER EVER EVER do that as scum? Even if you want to argue that I didn't want to appear overly eager, I could have just played it cool until DYH got around to voting you also. For me, as scum, to call out someone that is putting me one vote closer to winning the game would be complete nonsense. I might not be as good at this game as you MS guys, but I am not AWFUL, and that is what that would be.
Actually it was a preventable mislynch but not a bad one.
At this point I don't think you know what a Town reaction looks like.
Here, let's see if we lose to Zionite.
Vote: Cyan (L-1)
You tried to pull that card already, Cyan. Although I don't know what "playing it cool" means in your book because in my book it means a bit of lurking, a bit of waffling, no strong positions, slowly crawling into your Nacho-scum position after someone votes me. I don't think that you questioning Vi on my vote was tearing the roof off of any proverbial houses. I think immediately crashing into you to start out the MyLo was closer to tearing off the roof than your little question was.
Unvote, Vote: Cyan
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Why did you leave Voxxicus alive after he investigated you?
I think I nailed it with my analysis on D3.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
that makes boatloads of sense.
Well, that wasn't not going to happen, so etc..
Also, I checked to see if I had to commit a kill - to which the answer was no. Cyan's paranoia about all of us being potential scum was probably driving me to that choice (not killing).
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I expected Voxx to be the kill, so I did not jail him. Jailing Llamarble would have made no sense since his ability triggered during the day (or so he said). Also, was entirely truthful- thought he was bluffing the second shot.
@Vierni: I figured it would happen given the extension from D1 - although I expected three days (# to lynch I believe was used earlier), not four.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
You'll have to ask Thor for his rendition of Hotel California once the game ends.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
yeah it was
Players needed to lynch: 3
Cyan - 3 - Nachomamma8, Vierni, DYH - (L-0)
Players not voting: Cyan
__________
Cyan has been cleared of suspicion in the investigation into the Dexter homicide case.
Town Vanilla Captain Donahue
You are Captain Donahue, the man in charge of operations at the local precinct. You oversee dozens of cases at a time, giving each a cursory oversight to make sure procedure is followed. Because of this, you have only a basic knowledge of the Jean Dexter case. You trust your squad to do good police work, and from time to time you direct them toward your preferred course of action.
You work in the 10th precinct in the Chelsea district of New York. A rather shabby building on a rather shabby street. Acts of violence in Manhattan are reported to the third floor of this building. Because here, rather quietly, the Homicide squad does it's work.
Town Vanilla do not have any abilities.
You win when the Mafia team is wiped out.
Two women sit together in a coffee shop in the Chelsea district...
"Say, Mrs. Batory, did they ever catch the guy responsible for what happened to Jean?" Martha Swenson cautiously asked.
"No," Mrs. Batory replied teary-eyed, "he managed to skip town during the investigation. They caught the murderers, which I am grateful for. But they let the accomplice get away. There's no telling where he is now; probably living off the wealth he stole from his victims."
"It's a shame really. A sign of the times I suppose; when are we going to get a public service force that uses the head on their shoulders?"
Town Vanilla Mrs. Batory
You are Mrs. Batory, mother of the victim Jean Dexter. You live out of town with your husband, but after hearing the news, you are called in by Homicide squad to help them in their investigation. Unfortunately you don't know much about the case or who Jean knew while she lived in New York. Despite this, your feeling of responsibility for your daughter compels you to assist in finding her killers. You resent Jean for leaving home even after your warnings, saying time and time again "I hate her" before viewing the body and breaking down into tears.
Town Vanilla do not have any abilities.
You win when the Mafia team is wiped out.
Town Vanilla Martha Swenson
You are Martha Swenson, a housekeeper who stumbled upon poor Jean Dexter's body in the bathtub. Panicked, you removed the body from the bathtub with the help of the building manager and obstructed the Homicide squad's investigation. You are prone to flattery on a normal day, but on this day you are in shock. Regardless, you help the Homicide squad in every way you can.
Town Vanilla do not have any abilities.
You win when the Mafia team is wiped out.
Frank Niles is on a train, speeding West to California at 85 miles per hour. He wears a pin-striped suit, holding a New York newspaper in front of his face, both to learn about the Dexter investigation and to hide his face from prying eyes. He sips at a bourbon on the rocks that he has no intention of paying for, contemplating his next big score in the land of opportunity.
Mafia Traitor Jailer Frank Niles
You are Frank Niles, an accomplice to Jean Dexter and others in a burglary conspiracy. You've managed to seem innocent to the Homicide squad so far, and being engaged to Ruth Morrison lowers suspicion about your connection to Dexter. You also have a rock solid alibi placing you away from the scene of the murder at the time it went down. However, you're a thief being caught in a web of your own mistruths, a side-effect of your compulsive lying. You'll have to learn to lie where it matters and be truthful when it doesn't if you want to keep the Homicide squad off your case.
You know your teammates are Fate (Willie Garza) and Thor665 (Pete Backalis), but they don't know who you are. You join the team officially when you are targeted by the Mafia night kill or both your teammates are dead. You do not currently have the ability to activate the Mafia kill. However, due to your amazing skill at deflecting the police time and time again, you have the ability to jail a target at night. Your selected target will be both roleblocked and protected from a kill, if any.
You win when the Town team no longer has the majority of the population.
It's 1:00 in the morning, again. And this is the city. And these are the lights that a child, born to the name of Batory, hungered for. Her passion has been played out now. Her name, her face, her history, were worth five cents a day for four days. Tomorrow, a new case will hit the headlines. Yet some will remember Jean Dexter. She won't be entirely forgotten. Not entirely. Not altogether.
Congratulations Mafia Team, Aggressive_Fate, Thor665, and DYH, for winning Cross-Town Game #1, The Naked City Mafia!
Mafia Chat
Spectator Chat
Well-payed, DYH. GG.
Looking forward to the next one.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Great job not lynching me Day 2 when I told you guys to in order to avoid this exact situation. But hey, scum that are already down a guy make statements like that all of the time, right?
I'm pretty bitter about this entire game, I'm not sure I'll be participating in the next one. The game was never enjoyable for me at any point, and I don't really see how that is going to change.
Not really? The only people that played well were DYH, who had a very unique position that was easy to exploit, and Voxx. Everyone else's play was miserable, and if they don't realize it, they need a reality check.
I disagree.
How's that?
The town should have no lynched. It would have better pointed at DYH being scum.
That said, I liked what Tanarin and the gang created with this setup. The only reason you're sour on it is because you were trying to game the setup, Cyan.
And no lynching would not have accomplished anything, because the scum just wouldn't have killed anyone. I suggested the NL anyway because there was no harm in it, but it was unlikely to actually work.
Read along early in the game. Regardless of how you feel about the ending, the level of play in what I read was pretty impressive, and I'll be interested to see (or participate in) the next round.
EDs: By way of explanation of where Cyan is coming from:
-Traitor/Alignment Switching Roles
Game moderators are strongly encouraged to be extraordinarily careful if they seek to include a traitor role in their designs. These roles are notorious for causing games to implode, for creating fairness concerns, and for the challenge they pose to the town's behavioral analysis. (See Discussion in Council Thread, Post 3351, onwards.)
Traitor is, in fact, my least favorite role ever, and one that should never be included in a mafia game. But I don't have a problem with how it was implemented here, because DYH knew he was scum. His role was closer to Godfather, which is a fine role. Not everyone would have been able to turn the drawback of being set apart from your scumbuddies into a boon, but DYH is a good enough player that he was able to do exactly that. His role was skill-intensive, but rewarded good play. That is how it should be. DYH won this game pretty much single-handedly, and he deserved it. I recognized his scum play on Day 1, but it was based on tremendous personal history with him, and I was never going to get him lynched based on that in this type of setup.
I should have stuck to my guns in the DYH/Cyan thing because that exchange looked so artificial.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
After having some time to think about it, I still believe the setup dictated most of what happened.
*Vigs on fairly Town players, in spite of it being "in the interest of the Town at large", cost the Town a lynch (though this didn't matter in the end, and you decide whether Iso or Cyouni would otherwise have been lynched) (also yes I do feel bad for putting my D2 vote on Cyouni)
*The Gunsmith nailed the second scum and gave the third scum a free ticket to endgame
*One drawback to the whole "unexpected Godfather" thing is that it was, well, unexpected. If no one can think of any way that a Gunsmith can produce a false negative, and that's what happens, that's closer to a bastard blindside than clever. (That said, the way it was set up was highly obscure but fair by the book.)
I don't know if scum would have won if the Gunsmith results had gone differently. Without the Gunsmith result Thor stood a decent chance at LyLo, although I don't know how DYH would have done without the clear.
Other things...
*The M:tGS side, minus Iso, was amazingly inactive. Like, this is your home site. WHERE WERE YOU. Yes, I get that desCoures has his schedule and Voxxicus was on holiday for some of it but there was no reason I should have been checking in at the end of each day and routinely finding that my post from the night before was still the most recent one. The ONLY reason Thor got as much playtime as he did Day 3 was because Voxxicus and Cyan (and DYH, though that makes things rather interesting) made themselves scarce and gave Thor time to let his voice be the only one speaking. It's said that it's awfully hard to talk your way out of a Cop result, but Thor did an excellent job of it and he couldn't have done it alone.
*I work full time and I posted more vote counts than Zionite. In addition, I maintain that forcing deadline was equivalent to No Lynch and that my opt for the "best Town play" was taken from me by scum.
*I think that, in general, most people played a good game. It didn't work out the way most of those people wanted by any means, but I can tell why the M:tGS people were invited to represent their site.
As should be obvious, I'm not really happy with how this turned out, but it is what it is. I took the slot, did my best, and didn't completely embarrass myself. Who could ask for anything more ♪
Thank you for letting me play here. I think in another game there will be a fair bit less culture shock, which will lead to a somewhat more pleasant experience (by Mafia standards).
M:tGS players - there's an old meta that softclaiming is scummy. In this game, Iso did it (as V. Townie), DYH did it (as M. Jailer), and Voxxicus did it (as Gunsmith) so I'm wondering if that catchphrase gets any playtime over here.
Even so, losing like this, etc.
BTW, Vi, I approve of your music tastes.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
For the next game ill let the host know to keep the vote counts more frequent.
My name is Arn (to those I haven't met yet) and I'm going to be scoring this game. It's my birthday weekend so I will have a limited amount of time this particular weekend, but I will have scores posted at latest by 1700 Pacific 10/14/2013.
If you have any questions, comments, or concerns about the rubric and how it will be applied to this game, please PM me them or post in thread.
Thanks and ton and congratulations to the scum team for a close game.
Well...how did everyone play so bad?
I thought you and Nacho both played a decent game. Nacho did better later and you better earlier, but neither of you were bad townies inherently.
I thought Vi actually played a very good game.
I think I played a good game.
I feel you are mistaking 'right' with 'played well'
Played well has so many levels and meanings to it - functionally Voxx played both well (spotted 2/3 scum) and also played poorly (didn't look town enough to prevent being run up for claim)
DYH also played well (distancing, and managing to soft sell through a lynch) and played poorly (highly suspected)
The end question is one of overall advancement of the win condition though, and as far as that went I think a lot of players played hard, played well, and didn't just derp it up. Now, they made some bad assumptions (both town *and* scum made poor decisions based off setup spec) but that doesn't mean they played badly - it means they were wrong. Which is quite different from bad.
@Iso - I spammed this game with many things, but music videos were not really one of them this time. We'll see how long that lasts.
Eh, when Voxx claimed D2 I wrote this game off as a non-stellar-but-good-enough-to-win performance.
Removing Vi/Cyan for towniness and Voxx/DYH/llamarble due to roles, we had 4 eliminations to take care of Nacho, Thor, Cyouni, and DesCoures.
I had a "DYH is sketchy but roleinfo is roleinfo" post and Thor was under vig consideration D2.
Lynching Fate D1 was a Good Thing.
I didn't play awesome this game (running up KoL was lame and I did miss my shots) but I didn't suck hard either. Same goes for much of the rest of the players.
Fate for example got lynched D1 but it was on a hard to predict pivot after DGB and I rolecleared.
Losing to wrong role results is part of mafia (3 of my 8 town losses >_>).
It's almost never good play to mistrust your innocent investigation results and I think town actually did a pretty good job of doubting DYH.
Based on this game I think the level of play on our sites is pretty similar.
I look forward to playing game 2, though if it would be possible to host it as an invitational on MS (our isolation feature is extremely powerful) I would definitely vote for that.
I feel awkward about this though.
It was clear to town that scum didn't have a roleblocker (or had some way to not have access to a roleblock via limited activation people)
Also, town had specifically theorized that there was a GF - which is why the lack of cop kill made sense.
I don't know why you all decided that the Gunsmith would then be immune to a GF effect - at that stage what PR did you think scum had for balance after I flipped goon?
Rolecop?
Eh - I think you all let yourselves get blinded on that aspect due to the love of investigations.
I agree with this. But different Gunsmith results would have made different cleared town, and yadda, yadda. But the core idea holds.
I agree with this - let's just chain lynch them all on policy next game
I actually didn't think it was bad till after Voxx's claim - it felt like they all shut down then. There's a reason I was making that an emotional keynote for me, because it would have been very frustrating to Thortown.
Agreed.
Please do.
I'll also admit - I don't care if a player is doing vote counts, the mod should do them regardless.
Also, I submit she started doing them from a feeling of a lack of them, and I agree with that feeling as I found their regularity to be lacking in my opinion as well. Hands off is brilliant, but vote counts should not fall within that aspect - I like them daily, personally, but consider once every 2-3 days appropriate regardless.
I usually put vote counts up when I have no idea how things are. No comment on how often that occurs.
I was still a fan of Bulletproof. Plus, surely you admit investigation-immune people aren't that common on mafiascum. And in the end, I felt reliant on the M:tGS people to tell me what their meta was like, because I didn't really have any solid ideas (Bulletproof being the next best thing).
Running up KoL was awesome and there is no blame to be assigned for it. <___<
Mmmmm, doable...but why did they decide then to shoot the Vig and not the Gunsmith?
I don't really want to judge that conclusion, when you're in the town hotseat it's always different than armchairing it; I'm just not sure that makes sense as a scum play if I was the non BP one.
<- did not read the QTs
Supposing no GF and the DYH result accurate, and strong townreads on Vi/Cyan:
We got 4 shots to eliminate Thor, Nacho, dC, and Cyouni.
If scum left me alive and I had an additional shot, we would have 5 shots and could eliminate someone else as a bonus. If Voxx got another innocent, assuming it's treated like a full clear we get 5 shots and can eliminate someone not from that list. But because Voxx got a guilty, we only get to eliminate the 4 in that list.
I also intentionally did not reveal my target because the scum only benefit from a vig/cop overlap if they shoot the vig (which is what I wanted them to do because I had no followup action).
- Pregame: I hate this role.
- Should I claim miller? (That would have been an epic disaster)
- Game: I have a reputation to uphold (I get Day 1 right a lot- 5/6 since returning).
- I pick Thor to distance/bus.
- That ends up consuming most of the day. At that point, hoping for 'tunnel DYH is town read' from MTGS crew. Voxx later obliges, but b/c of inspection.
- The vote/unvote of Cyan was an attempt to gain his confidence by buddying up to him, calling him town. Scenario I referred to was legit, though.
- I get so deep in Thor case I had to ensure he died before me. Thor dead scum = basically cleared me. Me dead traitor revealed = questionable cred for Thor (argument could be I was intentionally trying to get his attention).
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I promised words after the game, but I don't really feel like throwing in a whole bitter tirade right now. I'll simply say this - Voxxicus, you had good gut reads. You should have trusted them. And given that now this is the second game in a very short time you've been in that featured an all-town L-2 wagon on town... the next time you attempt to use that argument with absolutely no behavioural backup to try to lynch someone, I'll take it as a sign that you're scum and will lynch you.
Other comments:
* I said not to shoot Cyouni. So of course Cyouni was shot. Feh.
* As far as the comments on MtGS activity - in general, fair enough. However, I have to utterly disagree that we 'all shut down' after Voxx's claim. I meant every word when I said that I was probably putting in the most effort that game day. And looking at day 2 I'm not entirely certain any MtGS player posted less than, say, llamarble, for instance.
* That being said, I suspect that the fact that the only remaining active game mod among the MtGS players was the scum contributed to the fact that no one seemed to find it odd that the game essentially had a cop/doc/vig versus... a rolecop and apparently no other role of significance.
(Also, I only realize now that Zionite sent a spectator chat link quite a bit afterwards... which I never saw because I had no active games ongoing. Heh.)
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Expect more wariness towards both of you from me if I actually play in the next one.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Short answer is; game balance didn't make sense with a Cop to me, so I decided he was probably a Tracker and thus the soft clear, worst case a JOAT who had already burnt his shot. Either case - probably not cop.
I didn't realize my traitor was a roleblocker/GF in order for game balance to still make any sense at all.
Therefore I shot the Vig, who I figured was full Vig.
Depends very much on setup and moment - but I actually disagree with this since a Cop's 'kills' though slightly less trustworthy on their flips, tend to strengthen town, whilst Vig kills can weaken it.
Don't get me wrong, I love Vigs, and would rather be a Vig than almost any other town PR. I just don't think they're as powerful as sane Cops.
I found it odd
But no one believed me for some reason...
But, yes, you're probably right here.
I try to avoid ever saying anything I don't believe when scum.
I am often accredited as tough to discern and tough to lynch as scum.
But, yes, I was certainly frustrated during parts of the game because I felt like an uniformed minority (And, indeed, I was - DYH was the informed minority in this game, and the rest of us were all in the dark to varying degrees)
I get that a lot...:(
Also, i rather hope all of you come back for the next one, the repetition with high level players is something I personally am most interested about in this series.