But you've done absolutely nothing this game other than throw reasonless vote after reasonless vote around, and it's exasperating.
Hey, hey Voxxy.
I don't throw reasonless votes around. Pardon me if I don't fit your narrow box of How Mafia Should Be Played.
Now how are my votes exasperating? As I recall, I basically made the wagon on Fate, thereby giving this game a scumlynch where a mislynch was pretty much agreed upon... and before unvoting, I also made the wagon on desCoures, who you're currently halfway in the process of backtracking on.
"Exasperating" would be my description of reading your posts and deciding whether you actually believe half of what you're saying.
And yet you're currently voting no one, despite distancing yourself from the dC wagon, and even in that post, not giving anything resembling a read on another player.
Who do you think is scum, if you apparently think dC is now town?
There's four options for you to pick from:
Nacho
Thor
Cyouni
Cyan
From your perspective, thinking dC is town, you should be pushing for the lynch on one of those, and making the case for Llamarble to shoot the other one you think is scum.
Yet you just come in, handwave the dC lynch with 'but oh noes he's probably town but we should lynch him anyways' when you were perfectly fine speedlynching Fate?
I'm around; I'll be back before the deadline to put my vote somewhere relevant if there's no "change of heart, let's vote scum" Thor speed-wagon by then.
I'm around.
My ability can be used to correct for insufficiency of votes, if necessary, though that would eliminate the 'cannot avoid an extra clear/lynch' situation scum is in on whether to kill me or voxx.
If dC flips town, Nacho is the only possible scum on the wagon, currently.
That's not exactly rocket surgery.
So there are roughly four options.
*desCoures is scum
*Nacho is scum (vote post is 1117 - and since you're unable to grasp implied motives, it's an obvious ViSheep)
*Voxxicus is scum (though I'm not going to push that with you in particular)
*The scum are somewhere else (none of the other players have talked about desCoures at this point)
Let's take one option off. Why would desCoures-scum vote now, rather than wait until deadline to self-hammer if necessary? He had an out to do both, and there is no readily available competing wagon where sympathizers can go flock.
Also, you're remarkably bad at this whole L-1 wagon distinguishment concept.
Wagons don't need to reach L-1 to have viable voting blocks for analysis.
And I'm able to do that same analysis - though I don't automatically think dC is town due to the self-voting and WHEN IF FLIP TOWN YOU'LL BE SORRY stuff - that's extremely fakable WiFOM that could have been a desperation attempt to cause a counter-wagon.
But I'm willing to operate off of 'dC flips town' worlds of thought, because if he does flip scum, they don't matter.
I'm just straight up asking you - if you think dC is town, who are your remaining two scum and why? It's not a complicated question.
llamarble - At this time, do you think it would be feasible to lynch anyone else? Not just to get the votes, but to make it a "good lynch" as well.
Voxxicus -
1) Three-vote wagons on Day 1 are fairly weak for vote analysis.
2) I don't do scumteams and think it's remarkably silly that you do. Right now, in this specific situation, trying to solve the puzzle in its entirety is pointless.
3) desCoures has to flip to start with before anything gets proven per se. I'm simply pointing out what's likely based on what's in front of me. Which leads to my next question - do you think it's likely that desCoures is Town? Not "but he could do this as scum" crap; we know most people here are capable of being surprising. What is he likely to flip?
It makes it not a terrible lynch from both a perspective of lynching possible scum, and Figuring Things Out.
Which is the main reason we lynch anyone prior to LyLo. Lynching scum is great, but lynching town is not a bad thing, as mislynches are baked into the game.
You are flat out refusing to commit to anything, and I'm having a lot of trouble seeing it coming from town. I'm asking for you to tell me who you think is scum, and why, so I can evaluate your thought process, and whether or not it is remotely genuine.
That's the distinction between town and scum, after all - scum don't have to solve the game, town do. And you're slinging insults and arguing semantics rather than actually trying to accomplish anything.
If there were no votes placed right now, who would your vote be placed on?
Let's pretend you're town, the rubric awards points for voting for scum, even if they aren't being lynched!
So how about voting for who you think is the most likely scum.
But I'm also 95% sure that he's town, due to my N1 action. Which I'm not claiming right now.
If I die overnight, my role should make it clear why I'm clearing DYH as town. If I don't die overnight, I'll full claim at the start of D3.
I want the scum team to have to decide whether it is worth killing me, rather than letting them make a fully informed decision.
So he's now not a cop. (Big surprise - that would have to be a pretty daring falseclaim.) He's sure as heck not a doc and not a vig, given KoL and his reaction to llamarble.
I do want to apologize for my abysmal play this game, though - abruptly getting yanked across the country and thrown into 80 hour work weeks was unexpected, and has caused both a lack of presence, and a lack of... mindpower, for lack of a better term.
I was never worried about getting lynched, due to my role, so that probably didn't help my lack of ****s to give regarding appearing obvious town as usual.
So at a Basic/Normal level, what in the blazing hells could he possibly be that would make him 'never be worried about getting lynched', that would additionally have some way of being '95% sure' that DYH is town?
Answer - NONE. He's spinning a tangled web of lies, and somehow you're all just walking into it.
Also, now that he's committed to 'not being a cop', that means DYH is back on the table if Voxxicus is scum. Which tallies with this:
I'm around; I'll be back before the deadline to put my vote somewhere relevant if there's no "change of heart, let's vote scum" Thor speed-wagon by then.
Scumposting. Implying that he doesn't actually think I'm scum and that Thor is, as though he hadn't supported this wagon much of the way. Backtrack post #1.
I think I'm still alright with lynching dC, because I can absolutely see the self-voting and self-righteous 'YOU'LL BE SORRY WHEN I FLIP TOWN' being faked from scum.
But Vi's two posts above make me significantly less happy with it.
Cyan: Cyan is attacking {dC, Cyouni} which is definitely not something he would do while pulling the whole "i don't know what's going on" game as scum and with a buddy down day 1. He's back to solid townfriend.
I'm curious as to what you're basing this on.
Both the behaviour and the analysis of that behaviour. Because the only statements he's made regarding that are all revolving around day 1.
"I don't know what's going on" - post #1050, which happened today. Cyan's been consistently pushing you/dC since then. Analysis of the behavior... it's not really something anyone would do as scum, really. I'm not sure where your confusion comes in.
That seems weak. I can absolutely see Cyan doing that as scum, and have no idea why anyone would think that would not be the case.
Cyouni I've also quantified why I think he's town, re:Fate. Granted, his barning of me today is a little strange... but, at the risk of being impolitic, let me make something clear. I think Cyouni is pretty bad at being scum, and should have been obvious as day by now if he was.
What has he done that would be particularly impressive for him to pull off as scum?
Fake a town mindset, for the most part. The only bubble of uncertainty for me is the bit where he barned what I said about Cyan.
I was hoping for something more... concrete?
Okay, let's put it this way - the last time I was scum with him, halfway through day 1 I thought the best use for him would be to get him killed to give our godfather town cred. Instead our godfather got himself killed via bad claim, but eh.
OK so i won't wall, but i will drop a series of what I like to call "minor observations" by examining what everyone has done today:
Thor: Thor maybe maybe might be scum. There is at least one scum in {dC, Cyouni} and he is definitely defending both of them (special emphasis on the dc defense). He has been shutting down his options if he actually is scum, so there's always that, and there is the earlier townread that I sort of want to continue to value. Thor most likely defending two scum in a game pretty strongly is always worth a second look, though.
Cyan: Cyan is attacking {dC, Cyouni} which is definitely not something he would do while pulling the whole "i don't know what's going on" game as scum and with a buddy down day 1. He's back to solid townfriend.
dC: I actually read earlier that dC was so confident in Voxxicus-scum that he figured it was far more likely he was just fakeclaiming. That "I'm tunneling a claimed power role who is likely town" was something that worked decently once on Llamarble, but happening for a second time on another claimed power role doesn't really make me feel that good, not to mention that dC only gets REAL CONVICTION when Voxxicus starts pushing him pretty hard. His play is also pretty much what I'd expect from scum in his position; keeping his options open and protecting partner-Cyouni.
cyouni is not THAT commentable but i'll look through him again later, i've sort of been separating myself from his lately to see other things, but if thor's not scum (which i doubt at the moment), cyouni almost certainly is.
I like how you have me as 'protecting partner-Cyouni' without being sure my supposed partner is Cyouni, and in fact saying absolutely nothing about him. In fact, this entire 'analysis' is predicated on the, to my mind, 75% false premise that there's scum between me and Cyouni.
If Voxxicus is actually town, the way you seem to be totally swallowing his ridiculous assumption and appropriating it for your own use just screams scum.
Right now, it looks like a decent assumption. In order for there not to be scum in {dC, Cyouni}, There needs to be scum in {Vi, Cyan}. Vi's play as scum this game would have to be stupidly bussy even from a surface level, and Cyan's play would be incredibly impressive to pull off as scum.
Swallowing his ridiculous assumption that he's town and his investigation target is town? It didn't seem the ridiculous to me.
There. Right there. What is your explanation for there to 'have to be' scum between me and Cyouni or in Vierni/Cyan? I don't believe I've seen that at all. And the only person who's ventured those very same pairs is Voxxicus, in his slanted wagon analysis - and even then, his postulation is actually kind of different. You're either appropriating it or supporting it without actually having properly read it. The former is a point against you if Voxxicus is town and wrong (the latter of which he is, and the former not), and the latter is a point against you if Voxxicus is scum.
And you know very well that I was talking about the above when I said 'ridiculous assumption'.
Next best guesses for scum would be Cyan and Nacho. No matter how scummy his play this day 2 has been, DYH should be cleared - completely if Voxxicus is scum, mostly barring godfather shenanigans if Voxxicus is town.
Good luck to town. Don't let Voxxicus lead you astray - whether he be Judas or mere blind guide, that way lies ruin.
What happened to "I don't see Cyan as scum with anyone if Voxxicus is actually town"?
Things happen. Winds blow. Change occurs. Or did you not read at all the posts I marked in Seppel fashion 'LOLSCUM' and 'MAYBE LOLSCUM'?
-------------------------
Near deadline, people. Hurry up and lynch me. And then you'll find that the following timeline is completely correct:
Day 2
1. I re-examine the game state in relation to Fate-scum and Iso-town. I vote Voxxicus pending re-read.
2. Voxxicus posts his reversal on DYH, calls Nacho town, and subsequently talks about Vierni, Cyan, and Cyouni, without any real rhyme or reasoning... then ends with three out of four 'possible scumpairs' including me, despite not having said a word about me and having read me as town all day 1. At this point, he obviously wants me dead.
3. I post analyses of Voxxicus, Cyan, DYH, and vote Cyan, while leaving an FoS on Voxxicus.
4. Voxxicus reaches L-2, and refuses to claim, calling votes on himself 'naked votes which zero reasoning.' He waffles a bit on Nacho, talks about everyone else, and ends clearly stating what was already obvious, that he wants me dead. He still has absolutely no behavioural argument against me, save that I called out his BS wagon analysis.
5. I reach L-2 and claim, continuing to point out gaping holes in Voxxicus' arguments, and showing where he cherrypicked his wagons for analysis.
6. Voxxicus reaches L-1 and phoneposts a fearmongering claim, saying 'someone please unvote or scum dc will hammer me.' To put it colloquially - yeah right. If I was scum and Voxxicus town, that would be utter suicide - I'd be 100% lynched the next day, and 1-for-1s are never good for scum, especially scum already 1 man down. Furthermore, see above for why his claim makes no sense, which is why he's being coy about it - to give himself more time to try and lie himself out of the web of lies he's already tangled in.
So whoever was saying that I lacked 'REAL CONVICTION' about Voxxicus - explain 3, then. Oh, right, it was Nacho. Surprise, surprise.
...I'm actually very much on to the idea of Voxxicus/Nacho now. Please kill them tomorrow, thanks.
Night, people. Like I said - follow not the guide to ruin.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Oh, and just in case it needs to be absolutely clearly spelled out for some people - the point of 1 and 2 in that above timeline is to show that the only reason Voxxicus could possibly have had for obviously wanting me dead above any of the other 3 people in his initial list, is because I was voting him at the time.
Which should have been obvious, but, well, you know. I figured you people could use all the obvious signposts you need at this point.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
...oh, what the hell, there's less than half an hour to deadline and nobody else is on. -_-
Don't make me have to try and cut through the obtuse again tomorrow.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
@dC: There is exactly one role that I can think of which Voxx must essentially be claiming.
Also, you're my #2 suspect; that's been pretty evident ever since the "T/S list" post. But everyone - and this should be plainly obvious - is miles behind Thor as far as I'm concerned. So yeah, I would much rather see him dead.
You mean the T/S post with the suspicion on me that I found came out of literally nowhere? Nice of you to point that out.
Albeit, Nacho's most recent list - in which he has 7 town and myself and Cyouni as the sole scum suspects - is far worse in terms of apparent and unjustified certainty.
But meh. It's not my problem any more.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Nacho is almost certain scum, and I hope Llamarble vigged him. (I need to trust my D1 gut more, as I was apparently dead on Nacho and dC from their first posts).
Vi felt weird today, please read back over that, and his play as a whole this game - there's just nothing there, other than insults, semantic arguments and 'etc'.
Thor becomes more likely with dC being apparently town - as if Thor is town, both of he remaining scum were on the Fate wagon.
Regardless, I'll be shot tonight, and Llamarble should get another kill off tomorrow night. Use the kill - it will guarantee that even in a worst case scenario there's a confirmed town alive with 3 remaining.
For DYH to be scum, the setup would be really, really weird. You'll see what I mean once I either flip, or claim. Just mark him as town for overnight analysis.
Eh.
There's two scum in:
Nacho
Cyouni
Cyan
Thor
Vierni
The flip of the vig target will be huge in figuring things out, but I don't anticipate still being alive for that.
So there's that.
@Cyan
If you're town, try to re-read and get your head in the game, going forwards. Please. If you're convinced on a scum read, push it.
@DYH
There's more than one scum. Make sure you aren't just tunneled on Thor for playstyle differences. I loathe his condescending sarcasm as much as you do, but try to ignore than and isolate what he's actually done (and not done). If he's still scum, sell it.
Annnnd with that, I guess I have to crash.
My gut says Nacho/Vi, but the Vi read is probbbably wrong. It's likely one of Cyan or Cyouni in the Vi slot's place, but eh.
There's 100% at least one scum between Vi/Nacho/Cyouni, though. Otherwise, the push on me today would have been all town, and that's unfathomable for how terrible it was.
It's 7:30 in the evening now. It's been a great day on the Dexter case. Developments: None. New clues: None. Progress? None. Ever try to catch a murderer? It has its depressing moments.
"Well it looks like we crossed off another suspect off our list."
"Yeah?"
"Yeah. Charles Meade just turned in his badge. Said he was done dealing with us incompetent fools."
"Meade? From traffic?"
"The very same."
"Huh..." he wonders, "didn't figure him for the quittin' type."
[MTGS] desCoures Town Vanilla Charles Meade
You are Charles Meade, Willie Garza's parole officer. You tip off investigators to Willie's description. He's a big man, professional acrobat and wrestler. He once stole a harmonica, and since it has little resale value, you figure he must like to play it. This information is critical to the Homicide squad's investigation into the Jean Dexter murder case, though you didn't know it at the time.
Town Vanilla do not have any abilities.
You win when the Mafia team is wiped out.
desCoures has retired from the force and gone fishing. All ties are severed from the boat trip.
It is now Night 2. Do not post. Night ends in 2 days (September 25th).
His name is Peter, maybe. He might have been a professional thief, maybe. He might be the man we're looking for, maybe. Oh yes, he's a thin man. Only half a million thin men in New York.
At the 10th Precinct...
Homicide squad wake early, rubbing their groggy eyes and waiting for coffee.
"It was the weirdest thing, captain. One minute Detective Halloran was on the horn, and the next he just stopped responding."
"We're going to have to tell his wife."
"You think something happened to him?"
"I am almost sure of it. And whoever did it knows we're after them."
__________
Llamarble hasn't reported back to the station since last night. You can only send out patrols to look for him, but hope is mostly lost.
[MS] Llamarble Town Poisoner Detective Jimmy Halloran
Tou are Detective Jimmy Halloran, a sharp-eyed family man who doesn't mind doing the legwork. Sometimes your initiative can put you in danger, but otherwise it serves as an excellent case-solving trait. An investigation for murder is now underway. It will advance methodically, by trial and error, by asking a thousand questions to get one answer, by brain-work and legwork. When it comes to legwork, detective Jimmy Haloran is an expert. In the war, he walked halfway across Europe with a rifle in his hand. Up until three months ago he was pounding a beat in the Bronx. And now he's playing button, button, in a city of 8 million people.
Due to your history, reputation, and initiative, you have the ability to remove a suspect from your investigation twice during the game. You select a target during the Day phase, and that target will be removed from the game at the beginning of the next Day phase, revealing their role.
You win when the Mafia team is wiped out.
Cyouni was cleared of suspicion last night and removed from the investigation.
[MTGS] Cyouni Town Vanilla Ruth Morrison
You are Ruth Morrison, a friend to the victim Jean Dexter. You've been brought in for questioning by the Homicide squad to learn more about her relationships. You are engaged to Frank Niles, a compulsive liar who's good with words. You find out that a stolen ring of yours was found on Jean Dexter's body when the police question you at your mother's apartment. Not only that, but your engagement ring is stolen too! Despite your love for Frank, you help the police in their investigation.
Town Vanilla do not have any abilities.
You win when the Mafia team is wiped out.
Player List:
[MTGS] DYH
[MTGS] Cyan
[MS] Thor665
[MTGS] Voxxicus
[MS] Nachomamma8
[MS] Vierni
It is now Day 3. You may post. With 6 alive, it's 4 to lynch.
Deadline is October 6th at 11:59pm CST.
If the player can submit a night kill, they will return guilty.
I don't see a mafia role where they can't make the kill, because...that'd basically turn them into a 2-man scum team with a survivor tacked on, and eh.
It's why I was so certain DYH was town, because gunsmith vs. cop = no godfather shenanigans likely.
And yes, any result is relevant, gun or no gun.
Which is why I'm not revealing it yet.
I want reasons out of you people, especially non-DYH variety of people.
Although I do want DYH to pony up a non-Thor scum read, because there's two scum left.
Gunsmith (and poisoner) are both very uncommon over here.
But considering this is a basic complexity, I can't fathom that there's a framer type role.
I'm a little surprised that there's no roleblocker, though - given we effectively have a cop/doc/vig town setup.
Mafia 1-shot bulletproof, maybe?
Eh.
Regardless, I'm 95%+ sure that DYH is town, because I think the behavior matches tunneled!town DYH on top of the result.
So we have two scum out of:
Nacho
Thor
Vi
Cyan
I've either cleared one of those four, or have a scum caught out of those four. I'll reveal which, and my own thoughts from there, once everyone gives scum reads with reasons.
On here, in my experience(the role doesn't come up TOO often, but it seems like what Zionite would use for this game), Gunsmith = role that can kill other people. The methodology of the kill doesn't really matter.
Also, you can take DYH off of my list of scum suspects. I forgot that Voxx cleared him yesterday. And I can't really see this being a gambit on Voxx' part, given that he would have had to start it yesterday, and it's unlikely that he was planning on lying about a guilty result before coming into the thread(the scum couldn't know for certain that llamarble would kill a townie).
Heh. How do you think I feel? I caught Nacho with his first post, and cleared dC with his first post, only to get busy and disconnected, and reverse on both of them by over-thinking it.
Thor/Vi is posssssible?
But Thor being like 'Yeah, Voxx is itching my paranoia to switch to Nacho, but Nacho is always dismissive of cases on him as town, so I'll keep my vote on Iso' is a Thing.
Also kind of hilarious that it's (probably) an all-MS scum team.
That's one point that kind of makes me think it could be Vi instead of Nacho, given Vi was the one trying to get us to split off and focus on our own sides.
But Nacho is far worse behaviorally in a vacuum, has worse interactions with confirmed scum, and has voting analysis against him as well.
Also kind of hilarious that it's (probably) an all-MS scum team.
*zing*
I'll take my share of blame for that. (and the Cyouni vote - my own inthread logic pointed to Nacho and I waffled out of it)
I'm just amused that Thor was right (either here or in some MD thread) - people don't lynch him because people don't read his posts. ...or, I think that's what he said. It was something similar. <.<
I do want to re-read in full one more time before we hammer, so don't put Thor at L-1, please.
He'll no doubt self-hammer.
Probably won't happen until tomorrow/weekend, but yeah.
/In before Thor claims Voxx is scum and that because we're at lynch or lose this is a gambit he's running.
I understand due diligence is in order, but this result pleases me greatly and I'll be happy to vote him whenever.
I could see either Nacho or Vierni as the scum partner - the former for Thor's unwillingness to pursue as Voxx pointed out, and the "I'm not gonna hammer Fate" is a quote that I'm going to put by my bedside tho" post at the end of D1; but I think odds are higher that it's Vierni on the "analyze our own side" logic. Both of them were early on the Fate wagon at the end of day 1, but that could be not expecting it to actually take off. I think Vi actually put Iso to L-1 at one point there near the end, as well.
Cyan is an outside shot at scum because of his defense of Thor, but I've played with Cyan a lot and I'm really not feeling this. Coming out today and forgetting I was targeted by Voxx seems incredibly sloppy and something disinterested Town Cyan is far more likely to have done.
And just to cover all the bases, if Voxx is running a gambit - kudos, you win. The irony here being that if Seppel had just left me alive at the end of Hobbit, I would've tunnel-voted you to death there, and in this case you could very well be taking advantage of my tunnel on Thor. It would be a perfect setup - gaining my trust to use it against me - and I know you're devious and a planner, but I'm not buying into the paranoia; especially since I never revealed those feelings until now. I think Seppel thought I was "on" to him. I really wasn't - I played an awful game there.
I can see the argument pretty cleanly for both of them, but I'm probably leaning towards Nacho a little bit.
Can understand some level of paranoia about me gambitting, but for me to be scum, there'd almost have to be another town power role somewhere, and well... yeah.
Surely one of Vi or Nacho want to claim that, right? DYH and Cyan will believe you and lynch me, I promise (lol).
The only thing that has me slightly paranoid is the fact that the scum almost certainly have to have a second power role of some kind, and that a redirecting role or something could be a possibility. I was expecting a roleblock to mess with the cop/doc/vig trio town has, but apparently not.
Regardless, I don't feel strongly enough about anyone to override a guilty result on Thor, so he's the lynch.
Just ask that you/Cyan take the time and do a dedicated re-read of Nacho and Vi at some point. We have like 2 weeks until this day end, and I'd like to make use of it before we lynch Thor and I get shot.
Just ask that you/Cyan take the time and do a dedicated re-read of Nacho and Vi at some point. We have like 2 weeks until this day end, and I'd like to make use of it before we lynch Thor and I get shot.
At risk of being a pain, there's going to be another two weeks Tomorrow, and this game has already showcased this site's unwillingness to lynch until forced to do so. Analyze as you like but please don't make it take forever.
For my own edification more than anything else, what is the likelihood of a redirecting role in a Basic game? My guess, in the evident absence of a Roleblocker, is that Mafia may have a Doctor (with a Role Cop in lieu of Roleblocker).
---
A reminder: Please look at Nacho's vote pattern Day 2 in relation to mine.
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The truth is only one.
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I'm not a cop.
So DYH is not a godfather.
But I'm also 95% sure that he's town, due to my N1 action. Which I'm not claiming right now.
If I die overnight, my role should make it clear why I'm clearing DYH as town. If I don't die overnight, I'll full claim at the start of D3.
I want the scum team to have to decide whether it is worth killing me, rather than letting them make a fully informed decision.
Fate/Vi/Nacho would be weird.
But I could see it.
Would also explain Vi's bit about how unlikely it is for all 3 scum to be from the same 'home'.
Vi/Thor is a possibility too, I suppose... gut says Thor is just bad/wrong town, though.
I don't throw reasonless votes around. Pardon me if I don't fit your narrow box of How Mafia Should Be Played.
Now how are my votes exasperating? As I recall, I basically made the wagon on Fate, thereby giving this game a scumlynch where a mislynch was pretty much agreed upon... and before unvoting, I also made the wagon on desCoures, who you're currently halfway in the process of backtracking on.
"Exasperating" would be my description of reading your posts and deciding whether you actually believe half of what you're saying.
This is the desCoures wagon. Is this an all-Town wagon? If not, where is the scum?
(I ask this knowing that there's basically nothing to be done about it other than No Lynch or lynch desCoures at this juncture, but etc..)
Who do you think is scum, if you apparently think dC is now town?
There's four options for you to pick from:
Nacho
Thor
Cyouni
Cyan
From your perspective, thinking dC is town, you should be pushing for the lynch on one of those, and making the case for Llamarble to shoot the other one you think is scum.
Yet you just come in, handwave the dC lynch with 'but oh noes he's probably town but we should lynch him anyways' when you were perfectly fine speedlynching Fate?
Something doesn't mesh here.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Why?
My ability can be used to correct for insufficiency of votes, if necessary, though that would eliminate the 'cannot avoid an extra clear/lynch' situation scum is in on whether to kill me or voxx.
That's not exactly rocket surgery.
I mean, if you want to go that route:
DYH - 3 - Vierni, Llamarble, Cyan - (L-4)
Kami of Lunacy - 3 - Llamarble, Cyan, Vierni - (L-4)
Voxxicus - 3 - Vierni, Nachomamma8, Llamarble - (L-2)
desCoures/Nacho
desCoures/Vierni
Cyan/Thor
Cyan/Nacho
Cyan/Vierni
Cyouni/Thor
Cyouni/Nacho
Thor/Nacho
Thor/Vierni
Nacho/Vierni
From my notes, in no particular order.
Is part of how I play - I hunt genuine interactions, and remove possible remaining scum teams, PoE'ing it down slowly.
There's a lot of Nacho on there - he's a high utility vig target, as well as very likely scum, I think.
*desCoures is scum
*Nacho is scum (vote post is 1117 - and since you're unable to grasp implied motives, it's an obvious ViSheep)
*Voxxicus is scum (though I'm not going to push that with you in particular)
*The scum are somewhere else (none of the other players have talked about desCoures at this point)
Let's take one option off. Why would desCoures-scum vote now, rather than wait until deadline to self-hammer if necessary? He had an out to do both, and there is no readily available competing wagon where sympathizers can go flock.
Also, you're remarkably bad at this whole L-1 wagon distinguishment concept.
And I'm able to do that same analysis - though I don't automatically think dC is town due to the self-voting and WHEN IF FLIP TOWN YOU'LL BE SORRY stuff - that's extremely fakable WiFOM that could have been a desperation attempt to cause a counter-wagon.
But I'm willing to operate off of 'dC flips town' worlds of thought, because if he does flip scum, they don't matter.
I'm just straight up asking you - if you think dC is town, who are your remaining two scum and why? It's not a complicated question.
Voxxicus -
1) Three-vote wagons on Day 1 are fairly weak for vote analysis.
2) I don't do scumteams and think it's remarkably silly that you do. Right now, in this specific situation, trying to solve the puzzle in its entirety is pointless.
3) desCoures has to flip to start with before anything gets proven per se. I'm simply pointing out what's likely based on what's in front of me. Which leads to my next question - do you think it's likely that desCoures is Town? Not "but he could do this as scum" crap; we know most people here are capable of being surprising. What is he likely to flip?
I'd probably say 40-45% likely he flips scum.
It makes it not a terrible lynch from both a perspective of lynching possible scum, and Figuring Things Out.
Which is the main reason we lynch anyone prior to LyLo. Lynching scum is great, but lynching town is not a bad thing, as mislynches are baked into the game.
You are flat out refusing to commit to anything, and I'm having a lot of trouble seeing it coming from town. I'm asking for you to tell me who you think is scum, and why, so I can evaluate your thought process, and whether or not it is remotely genuine.
That's the distinction between town and scum, after all - scum don't have to solve the game, town do. And you're slinging insults and arguing semantics rather than actually trying to accomplish anything.
If there were no votes placed right now, who would your vote be placed on?
Let's pretend you're town, the rubric awards points for voting for scum, even if they aren't being lynched!
So how about voting for who you think is the most likely scum.
Vote: Cyouni (L-3)
--
desCoures - 4 - Voxxicus, Nachomamma8, llamarble, desCoures - (L-1)
Cyouni - 2 - Cyan, Vierni - (L-3)
Cyan - 1 - Cyouni - (L-4)
Thor665 - 1 - DYH - (L-4)
Voxxicus - 1 - Thor665 - (L-4)
Deadline in 3:26 or so of this post.
So he's now not a cop. (Big surprise - that would have to be a pretty daring falseclaim.) He's sure as heck not a doc and not a vig, given KoL and his reaction to llamarble.
So at a Basic/Normal level, what in the blazing hells could he possibly be that would make him 'never be worried about getting lynched', that would additionally have some way of being '95% sure' that DYH is town?
Answer - NONE. He's spinning a tangled web of lies, and somehow you're all just walking into it.
Also, now that he's committed to 'not being a cop', that means DYH is back on the table if Voxxicus is scum. Which tallies with this:
Scumposting. Implying that he doesn't actually think I'm scum and that Thor is, as though he hadn't supported this wagon much of the way. Backtrack post #1.
Also,
Backtrack post #2.
Definite backtrack post #3.
Oh such great odds. As if he hasn't wanted me dead all day. Backtrack post #4.
There's at least one scum in here, and very probably both of the remaining scum. If there's only one scum here, then Nacho should be the other.
Speaking of which...
@Nachomamma8
That seems weak. I can absolutely see Cyan doing that as scum, and have no idea why anyone would think that would not be the case.
Okay, let's put it this way - the last time I was scum with him, halfway through day 1 I thought the best use for him would be to get him killed to give our godfather town cred. Instead our godfather got himself killed via bad claim, but eh.
There. Right there. What is your explanation for there to 'have to be' scum between me and Cyouni or in Vierni/Cyan? I don't believe I've seen that at all. And the only person who's ventured those very same pairs is Voxxicus, in his slanted wagon analysis - and even then, his postulation is actually kind of different. You're either appropriating it or supporting it without actually having properly read it. The former is a point against you if Voxxicus is town and wrong (the latter of which he is, and the former not), and the latter is a point against you if Voxxicus is scum.
And you know very well that I was talking about the above when I said 'ridiculous assumption'.
Things happen. Winds blow. Change occurs. Or did you not read at all the posts I marked in Seppel fashion 'LOLSCUM' and 'MAYBE LOLSCUM'?
-------------------------
Near deadline, people. Hurry up and lynch me. And then you'll find that the following timeline is completely correct:
Day 2
1. I re-examine the game state in relation to Fate-scum and Iso-town. I vote Voxxicus pending re-read.
2. Voxxicus posts his reversal on DYH, calls Nacho town, and subsequently talks about Vierni, Cyan, and Cyouni, without any real rhyme or reasoning... then ends with three out of four 'possible scumpairs' including me, despite not having said a word about me and having read me as town all day 1. At this point, he obviously wants me dead.
3. I post analyses of Voxxicus, Cyan, DYH, and vote Cyan, while leaving an FoS on Voxxicus.
4. Voxxicus reaches L-2, and refuses to claim, calling votes on himself 'naked votes which zero reasoning.' He waffles a bit on Nacho, talks about everyone else, and ends clearly stating what was already obvious, that he wants me dead. He still has absolutely no behavioural argument against me, save that I called out his BS wagon analysis.
5. I reach L-2 and claim, continuing to point out gaping holes in Voxxicus' arguments, and showing where he cherrypicked his wagons for analysis.
6. Voxxicus reaches L-1 and phoneposts a fearmongering claim, saying 'someone please unvote or scum dc will hammer me.' To put it colloquially - yeah right. If I was scum and Voxxicus town, that would be utter suicide - I'd be 100% lynched the next day, and 1-for-1s are never good for scum, especially scum already 1 man down. Furthermore, see above for why his claim makes no sense, which is why he's being coy about it - to give himself more time to try and lie himself out of the web of lies he's already tangled in.
So whoever was saying that I lacked 'REAL CONVICTION' about Voxxicus - explain 3, then. Oh, right, it was Nacho. Surprise, surprise.
...I'm actually very much on to the idea of Voxxicus/Nacho now. Please kill them tomorrow, thanks.
Night, people. Like I said - follow not the guide to ruin.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Oh, and just in case it needs to be absolutely clearly spelled out for some people - the point of 1 and 2 in that above timeline is to show that the only reason Voxxicus could possibly have had for obviously wanting me dead above any of the other 3 people in his initial list, is because I was voting him at the time.
Which should have been obvious, but, well, you know. I figured you people could use all the obvious signposts you need at this point.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Don't make me have to try and cut through the obtuse again tomorrow.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Also, you're my #2 suspect; that's been pretty evident ever since the "T/S list" post. But everyone - and this should be plainly obvious - is miles behind Thor as far as I'm concerned. So yeah, I would much rather see him dead.
Unvote; Vote: desCoures
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Albeit, Nacho's most recent list - in which he has 7 town and myself and Cyouni as the sole scum suspects - is far worse in terms of apparent and unjustified certainty.
But meh. It's not my problem any more.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Don't let him coast due to early game town reads.
I still think he's probably the most likely remaining town out of the Cyan/Cyouni/Nacho/Thor/Vierni cluster, though.
Cyan/Thor
Cyan/Nacho
Cyan/Vierni
Cyouni/Thor
Cyouni/Nacho
Thor/Nacho
Thor/Vierni
Nacho/Vierni
We're looking at one of those, almost certainly.
Nacho is almost certain scum, and I hope Llamarble vigged him. (I need to trust my D1 gut more, as I was apparently dead on Nacho and dC from their first posts).
Vi felt weird today, please read back over that, and his play as a whole this game - there's just nothing there, other than insults, semantic arguments and 'etc'.
Thor becomes more likely with dC being apparently town - as if Thor is town, both of he remaining scum were on the Fate wagon.
Regardless, I'll be shot tonight, and Llamarble should get another kill off tomorrow night. Use the kill - it will guarantee that even in a worst case scenario there's a confirmed town alive with 3 remaining.
For DYH to be scum, the setup would be really, really weird. You'll see what I mean once I either flip, or claim. Just mark him as town for overnight analysis.
Eh.
There's two scum in:
Nacho
Cyouni
Cyan
Thor
Vierni
The flip of the vig target will be huge in figuring things out, but I don't anticipate still being alive for that.
So there's that.
@Cyan
If you're town, try to re-read and get your head in the game, going forwards. Please. If you're convinced on a scum read, push it.
@DYH
There's more than one scum. Make sure you aren't just tunneled on Thor for playstyle differences. I loathe his condescending sarcasm as much as you do, but try to ignore than and isolate what he's actually done (and not done). If he's still scum, sell it.
Annnnd with that, I guess I have to crash.
My gut says Nacho/Vi, but the Vi read is probbbably wrong. It's likely one of Cyan or Cyouni in the Vi slot's place, but eh.
There's 100% at least one scum between Vi/Nacho/Cyouni, though. Otherwise, the push on me today would have been all town, and that's unfathomable for how terrible it was.
I need to be up early, so good luck.
But I can't see him putting in that kind of effort as a joke.
I want Nacho and Cyouni dead, and good luck sorting it out from there, if the game still continues.
Players needed to lynch: 5
desCoures - 5 - Voxxicus, Nachomamma8, Llamarble, desCoures, DYH - (L-0)
Cyouni - 2 - Cyan, Vierni - (L-3)
Cyan - 1 - Cyouni - (L-4)
Voxxicus - 1 - Thor665 - (L-4)
Twilight.
"Well it looks like we crossed off another suspect off our list."
"Yeah?"
"Yeah. Charles Meade just turned in his badge. Said he was done dealing with us incompetent fools."
"Meade? From traffic?"
"The very same."
"Huh..." he wonders, "didn't figure him for the quittin' type."
Town Vanilla Charles Meade
You are Charles Meade, Willie Garza's parole officer. You tip off investigators to Willie's description. He's a big man, professional acrobat and wrestler. He once stole a harmonica, and since it has little resale value, you figure he must like to play it. This information is critical to the Homicide squad's investigation into the Jean Dexter murder case, though you didn't know it at the time.
Town Vanilla do not have any abilities.
You win when the Mafia team is wiped out.
At the 10th Precinct...
Homicide squad wake early, rubbing their groggy eyes and waiting for coffee.
"It was the weirdest thing, captain. One minute Detective Halloran was on the horn, and the next he just stopped responding."
"We're going to have to tell his wife."
"You think something happened to him?"
"I am almost sure of it. And whoever did it knows we're after them."
__________
Llamarble hasn't reported back to the station since last night. You can only send out patrols to look for him, but hope is mostly lost.
Town Poisoner Detective Jimmy Halloran
Tou are Detective Jimmy Halloran, a sharp-eyed family man who doesn't mind doing the legwork. Sometimes your initiative can put you in danger, but otherwise it serves as an excellent case-solving trait.
An investigation for murder is now underway. It will advance methodically, by trial and error, by asking a thousand questions to get one answer, by brain-work and legwork. When it comes to legwork, detective Jimmy Haloran is an expert. In the war, he walked halfway across Europe with a rifle in his hand. Up until three months ago he was pounding a beat in the Bronx. And now he's playing button, button, in a city of 8 million people.
Due to your history, reputation, and initiative, you have the ability to remove a suspect from your investigation twice during the game. You select a target during the Day phase, and that target will be removed from the game at the beginning of the next Day phase, revealing their role.
You win when the Mafia team is wiped out.
[MTGS] Cyouni
Town Vanilla Ruth Morrison
You are Ruth Morrison, a friend to the victim Jean Dexter. You've been brought in for questioning by the Homicide squad to learn more about her relationships. You are engaged to Frank Niles, a compulsive liar who's good with words. You find out that a stolen ring of yours was found on Jean Dexter's body when the police question you at your mother's apartment. Not only that, but your engagement ring is stolen too! Despite your love for Frank, you help the police in their investigation.
Town Vanilla do not have any abilities.
You win when the Mafia team is wiped out.
Deadline is October 6th at 11:59pm CST.
I'm Town Gunsmith Detective Lt. Dan Muldoon.
I can check to see if a player is capable of killing, on a given night.
Which should explain both A) my immediate acceptance of Llamarble, given that he'd basically be a miller, and B) my nearly full clearing of DYH.
I was trying to insinuate that I was a JoaT or something just to create some paranoia in the scum team, but yeah.
I'm basically a cop, without being called a cop.
I got a relevant result last night, but I'm going to withhold that for the moment.
I want everyone remaining to state their two strongest scum reads, with reasons behind both.
Since I do have an extra alignment confirmation, I want to look for genuineness in the reads.
I need to back and reread Vierni and Nacho and see their various interactions.
Question. On this site, are there any Mafia-aligned roles that do not have guns? (e.g. Doctor)
--
Ignoring any result that may be forthcoming, I don't think I would vote anyone except Nacho Today.
I don't see a mafia role where they can't make the kill, because...that'd basically turn them into a 2-man scum team with a survivor tacked on, and eh.
It's why I was so certain DYH was town, because gunsmith vs. cop = no godfather shenanigans likely.
And yes, any result is relevant, gun or no gun.
Which is why I'm not revealing it yet.
I want reasons out of you people, especially non-DYH variety of people.
Although I do want DYH to pony up a non-Thor scum read, because there's two scum left.
Are there any Framer-type roles for Gunsmith? (not to be confused with Milleresque roles like Vig)
But considering this is a basic complexity, I can't fathom that there's a framer type role.
I'm a little surprised that there's no roleblocker, though - given we effectively have a cop/doc/vig town setup.
Mafia 1-shot bulletproof, maybe?
Eh.
Regardless, I'm 95%+ sure that DYH is town, because I think the behavior matches tunneled!town DYH on top of the result.
So we have two scum out of:
Nacho
Thor
Vi
Cyan
I've either cleared one of those four, or have a scum caught out of those four. I'll reveal which, and my own thoughts from there, once everyone gives scum reads with reasons.
Also, you can take DYH off of my list of scum suspects. I forgot that Voxx cleared him yesterday. And I can't really see this being a gambit on Voxx' part, given that he would have had to start it yesterday, and it's unlikely that he was planning on lying about a guilty result before coming into the thread(the scum couldn't know for certain that llamarble would kill a townie).
I want to re-read the Cyouni wagon and how that diffused.
Scum team is Fate/Thor/Nacho.
Thor has a gun, we're lynching Thor.
Vote: Thor
Sorry DYH. Looks like you've still got it.
I'll be happy if Nacho is the remaining scum, at least that means I was right about him at the beginning.
Thor/Vi is posssssible?
But Thor being like 'Yeah, Voxx is itching my paranoia to switch to Nacho, but Nacho is always dismissive of cases on him as town, so I'll keep my vote on Iso' is a Thing.
And yeah.
That's one point that kind of makes me think it could be Vi instead of Nacho, given Vi was the one trying to get us to split off and focus on our own sides.
But Nacho is far worse behaviorally in a vacuum, has worse interactions with confirmed scum, and has voting analysis against him as well.
In conclusion - eh.
He'll no doubt self-hammer.
Probably won't happen until tomorrow/weekend, but yeah.
I'll take my share of blame for that. (and the Cyouni vote - my own inthread logic pointed to Nacho and I waffled out of it)
I'm just amused that Thor was right (either here or in some MD thread) - people don't lynch him because people don't read his posts. ...or, I think that's what he said. It was something similar. <.<
It's Nacho.
I understand due diligence is in order, but this result pleases me greatly and I'll be happy to vote him whenever.
I could see either Nacho or Vierni as the scum partner - the former for Thor's unwillingness to pursue as Voxx pointed out, and the "I'm not gonna hammer Fate" is a quote that I'm going to put by my bedside tho" post at the end of D1; but I think odds are higher that it's Vierni on the "analyze our own side" logic. Both of them were early on the Fate wagon at the end of day 1, but that could be not expecting it to actually take off. I think Vi actually put Iso to L-1 at one point there near the end, as well.
Cyan is an outside shot at scum because of his defense of Thor, but I've played with Cyan a lot and I'm really not feeling this. Coming out today and forgetting I was targeted by Voxx seems incredibly sloppy and something disinterested Town Cyan is far more likely to have done.
And just to cover all the bases, if Voxx is running a gambit - kudos, you win. The irony here being that if Seppel had just left me alive at the end of Hobbit, I would've tunnel-voted you to death there, and in this case you could very well be taking advantage of my tunnel on Thor. It would be a perfect setup - gaining my trust to use it against me - and I know you're devious and a planner, but I'm not buying into the paranoia; especially since I never revealed those feelings until now. I think Seppel thought I was "on" to him. I really wasn't - I played an awful game there.
So to recap: Vi > Nacho > big gap > Cyan
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I'm pretty sure it comes down to Nacho or Vi.
I can see the argument pretty cleanly for both of them, but I'm probably leaning towards Nacho a little bit.
Can understand some level of paranoia about me gambitting, but for me to be scum, there'd almost have to be another town power role somewhere, and well... yeah.
Surely one of Vi or Nacho want to claim that, right? DYH and Cyan will believe you and lynch me, I promise (lol).
The only thing that has me slightly paranoid is the fact that the scum almost certainly have to have a second power role of some kind, and that a redirecting role or something could be a possibility. I was expecting a roleblock to mess with the cop/doc/vig trio town has, but apparently not.
Regardless, I don't feel strongly enough about anyone to override a guilty result on Thor, so he's the lynch.
Just ask that you/Cyan take the time and do a dedicated re-read of Nacho and Vi at some point. We have like 2 weeks until this day end, and I'd like to make use of it before we lynch Thor and I get shot.
For my own edification more than anything else, what is the likelihood of a redirecting role in a Basic game? My guess, in the evident absence of a Roleblocker, is that Mafia may have a Doctor (with a Role Cop in lieu of Roleblocker).
---
A reminder: Please look at Nacho's vote pattern Day 2 in relation to mine.