Name those people. I'll wait.
In the meantime, I'm betting you're going to name me, Vi, and Kami of Lunacy, as we were the only people pressuring AF at that point. But you called Kami of Lunacy scum both before and after that post, and she wasn't even voting AF at that point.
In other words, bull.
Here is my exact statement on the subject, which I have already previously referenced today:
Sigh. Looking at the vote counts, the claimed Vig and claimed Doc are voting for AF, and are from his site. DYH has also strongly implied a power role and is voting him as well.
And on the flip-side, AF is one of the people voting Iso.
Maybe I've been wrong all along. Unvote, Vote AF
If I were scum, I would never have bussed AF there. I gain absolutely nothing out of doing so(you could even argue that I look worse because I gave up the Iso case that I had been on all day). But I did it anyway, because it was the correct play, as town.
@Voxx: Meh. This game has made me realize how much I depend upon meta, honestly. I'm pretty lost without having it to filter out 'naturally scummy playstyles'. I had no such analysis available for KoL, and look how that turned out. And Nacho looks like town now as well based on his behavior toward AF yesterday, despite acting thoroughly scummy for most of Day 1.
But you seem very determined to have people vote for AF, and I have no idea why.
It's hard to explain, but normally Fate is elbow-deep in a game and I can follow his train of thought.
Here I find him very cautious and manufactured.
I'm accounting for a playstyle adjustment for him playing with seasoned debaters of semantic nuances - my inability to understand how his posts relate to anything currently happening in game state is behind my evaluation of Fatescum. It's possible he doesn't care about the game as town, it's possible he doesn't care as scum. As town he should make more sense than he does.
Well, some wagon needs to actually happen here. I still don't think Thor is scum, and while I still think that Iso and KoL are the most likely to be scum, and DYH could be, I don't think I was ever going to make any of those cases stick today.
So, Unvote, Vote AF
You know, given that this was the post that you were responding to when you said "I didn't have a scum read on AF, and he flipped scum."
I had a big revelation today. Cyan's behavior is odd, I agree (hence a few twinges on him). But then I realize that it makes no ****ing sense for Cyan-scum who is being read by a majority of the game as town (especially the MSers) to complain about being lost and act so... defeated. This means that I'm pretty reassured in my earlier townread in him and no longer are waffling over his alignment.
[QUOTE=DYH;/comments/12588557]@Voxx - Is your 95% because you fear powers that effect your ability creating false negatives/positives or is it a lack of confidence in what the ability is even saying to you?
Seriously, neither of your cases on the other make that much sense. Cyan's townplay has been aggressive throughout, Cyouni was a clear mislynch attempt by Fate unless you take that as a lulz bus. I'd love it if you guys could stop sniping each other.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=14367
Thor, do you know why his two scumpartners were lynched the first two days? Because Fate bussed the hell out of them. If there's anyone who lulz busses, it's Fate.
Nacho, however... his switching from wondering why Vierni was voting me and questioning Voxxicus' (lack of) reasoning to voting me now seems strange, to say the least. And now that I think about it, I'm not actually sure what his possible remaining scumpairs are, and he did have Cyan as consistently obvtown yesterday. At the same time, however, he had a very strong day 1, which is why I had him as town for all of late day 1 and early day 2.
Investigative soft claim clearing DYH did wonders, actually. I had you as town for most of Day 1 and Day 2 for your intensive questioning, but now I'm starting to lean that I might have just been in love with your playstyle. I'm gonna venture into the selective reread business right about now since ISOs still drive me crazy, so be prepared for an unnecessarily long wall!
Cyouni I've also quantified why I think he's town, re:Fate. Granted, his barning of me today is a little strange... but, at the risk of being impolitic, let me make something clear. I think Cyouni is pretty bad at being scum, and should have been obvious as day by now if he was.
What has he done that would be particularly impressive for him to pull off as scum?
OK so i won't wall, but i will drop a series of what I like to call "minor observations" by examining what everyone has done today:
Thor: Thor maybe maybe might be scum. There is at least one scum in {dC, Cyouni} and he is definitely defending both of them (special emphasis on the dc defense). He has been shutting down his options if he actually is scum, so there's always that, and there is the earlier townread that I sort of want to continue to value. Thor most likely defending two scum in a game pretty strongly is always worth a second look, though.
Cyan: Cyan is attacking {dC, Cyouni} which is definitely not something he would do while pulling the whole "i don't know what's going on" game as scum and with a buddy down day 1. He's back to solid townfriend.
dC: I actually read earlier that dC was so confident in Voxxicus-scum that he figured it was far more likely he was just fakeclaiming. That "I'm tunneling a claimed power role who is likely town" was something that worked decently once on Llamarble, but happening for a second time on another claimed power role doesn't really make me feel that good, not to mention that dC only gets REAL CONVICTION when Voxxicus starts pushing him pretty hard. His play is also pretty much what I'd expect from scum in his position; keeping his options open and protecting partner-Cyouni.
cyouni is not THAT commentable but i'll look through him again later, i've sort of been separating myself from his lately to see other things, but if thor's not scum (which i doubt at the moment), cyouni almost certainly is.
Thor, do you know why his two scumpartners were lynched the first two days? Because Fate bussed the hell out of them. If there's anyone who lulz busses, it's Fate.
How do you spot the difference between a Fate lulz bus and a Fate 'I want to lynch this filthy town' vote then?
Voxx and I should probably not target the same person. How to accomplish that I'm not sure, but if we want to check Cyan in addition to Thor/Nacho/dC/Cyouni we'll need to avoid overlap.
I mean, mafia doctor/bulletproof are the two other power roles I'm expecting that can mess things up but with both of those you either shoot the right scumbag or you don't.
I have Cyan back as town also following his responses to Cyouni.
I don't really care for where Cyouni's line of questioning is going with Cyan. He clearly stated at the times when he voted Fate why he was doing it, and how he felt regarding the votes. It seems like a bit of a stretch to assume malicious intent when it ended up being a vote on a guy who flipped scum.
I don't really care for where Cyouni's line of questioning is going with Cyan. He clearly stated at the times when he voted Fate why he was doing it, and how he felt regarding the votes. It seems like a bit of a stretch to assume malicious intent when it ended up being a vote on a guy who flipped scum.
Which ones specifically?
And that last line is pretty much "if the vote's on scum, there can't be anything wrong with it".
OK so i won't wall, but i will drop a series of what I like to call "minor observations" by examining what everyone has done today:
Thor: Thor maybe maybe might be scum. There is at least one scum in {dC, Cyouni} and he is definitely defending both of them (special emphasis on the dc defense). He has been shutting down his options if he actually is scum, so there's always that, and there is the earlier townread that I sort of want to continue to value. Thor most likely defending two scum in a game pretty strongly is always worth a second look, though.
Cyan: Cyan is attacking {dC, Cyouni} which is definitely not something he would do while pulling the whole "i don't know what's going on" game as scum and with a buddy down day 1. He's back to solid townfriend.
dC: I actually read earlier that dC was so confident in Voxxicus-scum that he figured it was far more likely he was just fakeclaiming. That "I'm tunneling a claimed power role who is likely town" was something that worked decently once on Llamarble, but happening for a second time on another claimed power role doesn't really make me feel that good, not to mention that dC only gets REAL CONVICTION when Voxxicus starts pushing him pretty hard. His play is also pretty much what I'd expect from scum in his position; keeping his options open and protecting partner-Cyouni.
cyouni is not THAT commentable but i'll look through him again later, i've sort of been separating myself from his lately to see other things, but if thor's not scum (which i doubt at the moment), cyouni almost certainly is.
If Cyouni is scum, I could see Thor being scum also.
Ultimately, Cyouni is the most likely scum in my book, no matter how you spin it.
Cyan: Cyan is attacking {dC, Cyouni} which is definitely not something he would do while pulling the whole "i don't know what's going on" game as scum and with a buddy down day 1. He's back to solid townfriend.
I'm curious as to what you're basing this on.
Both the behaviour and the analysis of that behaviour. Because the only statements he's made regarding that are all revolving around day 1.
But you seem very determined to have people vote for AF, and I have no idea why.
It's hard to explain, but normally Fate is elbow-deep in a game and I can follow his train of thought.
Here I find him very cautious and manufactured.
I'm accounting for a playstyle adjustment for him playing with seasoned debaters of semantic nuances - my inability to understand how his posts relate to anything currently happening in game state is behind my evaluation of Fatescum. It's possible he doesn't care about the game as town, it's possible he doesn't care as scum. As town he should make more sense than he does.
Well, some wagon needs to actually happen here. I still don't think Thor is scum, and while I still think that Iso and KoL are the most likely to be scum, and DYH could be, I don't think I was ever going to make any of those cases stick today.
So, Unvote, Vote AF
You know, given that this was the post that you were responding to when you said "I didn't have a scum read on AF, and he flipped scum."
I don't really care for where Cyouni's line of questioning is going with Cyan. He clearly stated at the times when he voted Fate why he was doing it, and how he felt regarding the votes. It seems like a bit of a stretch to assume malicious intent when it ended up being a vote on a guy who flipped scum.
Which ones specifically?
And that last line is pretty much "if the vote's on scum, there can't be anything wrong with it".
Both votes. And yeah, I just think Cyan would've done a better job bussing the hell out of Fate as his scum partner to, as you seem to be implying, get some town cred out of it. He really didn't.
And since I still don't think that Fate/you was a bus job, for once I think Thor and I agree on something - this feels like a town/town fight.
@Cyouni: Apparently I don't even understand what question you are trying to ask, since I feel like I have already answered it repeatedly and you disagree.
What does your vote on AF at deadline have anything to do with how you voted him earlier in the day (a week before deadline)?
Everything you've said has been related to the one at deadline, and absolutely nothing to do with the one significantly before that. And you obviously didn't think he was town then.
What does your vote on AF at deadline have anything to do with how you voted him earlier in the day (a week before deadline)?
Everything you've said has been related to the one at deadline, and absolutely nothing to do with the one significantly before that. And you obviously didn't think he was town then.
I didn't even remember that I ever voted him before my deadline vote on him. So..these two votes have nothing to do with each other, and never did.
Nothing has come up as of page 8 to make me think different from Thor + Nacho + Cyouni + dC wins.
DYH looks sketchy but roleinfo is roleinfo. Vi / Cyan look good.
Cyouni #124 does give me the 'urrgh is this guy gonna flip town' feeling.
It's a pretty well executed 'LOLNOPEFAIL' if he's scum
132 notable also.
Was dC trying to reverse psychology me into not killing Fate?
Fate/desCoures/Cyouni makes the most sense, but doesn't feel right.
It'd mean I was wrong about dC and Cyouni being town on D1, and my early town reads are usually more accurate than that.
But I think the only person I could justify lynching/vigging over them would be Nacho, and that's if I ignore interactions and go purely off gut and early game behavior.
I'll get shot tonight, which isn't the worst thing - will mean Llamarble gets 2 more kills off.
Lynch dC, vig Cyouni.
Lynch Nacho, vig Thor.
Hope the scum team isn't Fate/Vi/Cyan, as the last day would be DYH/Vi/Cyan, in the event that the game isn't over at that point.
Mm.
Still want to finish up my re-read and dump some votals/thoughts, but I'm pretty okay with a dC lynch, and either Cyouni or Nacho getting vigged.
I don't have an information night action tonight that would be relevant to overlap, so yeah.
Vi still bothers me on an instinctual, gut level. I still think there's a good chance of being one scum between Cyan and Vi based on voting blocks, and Vi is the more likely of the two.
Meh. I have Tuesday off of work, so I'll focus on this for a few hours then.
I do want to apologize for my abysmal play this game, though - abruptly getting yanked across the country and thrown into 80 hour work weeks was unexpected, and has caused both a lack of presence, and a lack of... mindpower, for lack of a better term.
I was never worried about getting lynched, due to my role, so that probably didn't help my lack of ****s to give regarding appearing obvious town as usual.
Tossing that up from my notes - it's not comprehensive, because I only went through and manually crafted one wagon - the Llamarble 9.1 one - that wasn't in the official VC's.
There's several Llamarble, Cyan, Vi voting blocks on town (Kami, DYH) that are kind of twigging paranoia regarding Cyan/Vi.
Plus that flashwagon on Iso early in game would be all town, which is possible given that I'm not even sure Fate or Cyouni had checked in at that point. Mm.
I didn't even remember that I ever voted him before my deadline vote on him. So..these two votes have nothing to do with each other, and never did.
Talk about much ado about nothing.
The point being it shows he has a point in what he's pushing on you.
I think he's wrong, but he has logical flow to what he's saying and isn't derpa-herping a scum case on you and also explains his apparent frustration with your play.
Hint: that increases the odds he's town.
@VOXX - I asked you a clarification question about your investigation and you just sort of slurped along without giving me the time of day.
Specifically - is the 90% sureness from you a matter of uncertainty of roles that could affect your results or is it because of unsureness in what the results themselves mean.
This matters to me quite a bit.
I'm annoyed no one else is asking it.
Please answer.
That entire post feels like 'a bunch of words that don't actually say anything'. I also feel like dC is forcing the 'go ahead and lynch me' card a little too much here.
I had a big revelation today. Cyan's behavior is odd, I agree (hence a few twinges on him). But then I realize that it makes no ****ing sense for Cyan-scum who is being read by a majority of the game as town (especially the MSers) to complain about being lost and act so... defeated. This means that I'm pretty reassured in my earlier townread in him and no longer are waffling over his alignment.
Cyouni I've also quantified why I think he's town, re:Fate. Granted, his barning of me today is a little strange... but, at the risk of being impolitic, let me make something clear. I think Cyouni is pretty bad at being scum, and should have been obvious as day by now if he was.
What has he done that would be particularly impressive for him to pull off as scum?
Fake a town mindset, for the most part. The only bubble of uncertainty for me is the bit where he barned what I said about Cyan.
OK so i won't wall, but i will drop a series of what I like to call "minor observations" by examining what everyone has done today:
Thor: Thor maybe maybe might be scum. There is at least one scum in {dC, Cyouni} and he is definitely defending both of them (special emphasis on the dc defense). He has been shutting down his options if he actually is scum, so there's always that, and there is the earlier townread that I sort of want to continue to value. Thor most likely defending two scum in a game pretty strongly is always worth a second look, though.
Cyan: Cyan is attacking {dC, Cyouni} which is definitely not something he would do while pulling the whole "i don't know what's going on" game as scum and with a buddy down day 1. He's back to solid townfriend.
dC: I actually read earlier that dC was so confident in Voxxicus-scum that he figured it was far more likely he was just fakeclaiming. That "I'm tunneling a claimed power role who is likely town" was something that worked decently once on Llamarble, but happening for a second time on another claimed power role doesn't really make me feel that good, not to mention that dC only gets REAL CONVICTION when Voxxicus starts pushing him pretty hard. His play is also pretty much what I'd expect from scum in his position; keeping his options open and protecting partner-Cyouni.
cyouni is not THAT commentable but i'll look through him again later, i've sort of been separating myself from his lately to see other things, but if thor's not scum (which i doubt at the moment), cyouni almost certainly is.
I like how you have me as 'protecting partner-Cyouni' without being sure my supposed partner is Cyouni, and in fact saying absolutely nothing about him. In fact, this entire 'analysis' is predicated on the, to my mind, 75% false premise that there's scum between me and Cyouni.
If Voxxicus is actually town, the way you seem to be totally swallowing his ridiculous assumption and appropriating it for your own use just screams scum.
Nothing has come up as of page 8 to make me think different from Thor + Nacho + Cyouni + dC wins.
DYH looks sketchy but roleinfo is roleinfo. Vi / Cyan look good.
Cyouni #124 does give me the 'urrgh is this guy gonna flip town' feeling.
It's a pretty well executed 'LOLNOPEFAIL' if he's scum
132 notable also.
Was dC trying to reverse psychology me into not killing Fate?
Oh, I was trying to reverse psychology you into not killing Fate, when Voxxicus did the exact same thing, only much less absolutely? You know, the very point I thought about and included in my analysis of Voxxicus, which I'm increasingly beginning to think you're just skipping?
Why in blazes does Cyan 'look good' to you again? Just because you thought he was town day 1?
I do want to apologize for my abysmal play this game, though - abruptly getting yanked across the country and thrown into 80 hour work weeks was unexpected, and has caused both a lack of presence, and a lack of... mindpower, for lack of a better term.
I was never worried about getting lynched, due to my role, so that probably didn't help my lack of ****s to give regarding appearing obvious town as usual.
Oh, if you actually are town, we will have words postgame.
Tossing that up from my notes - it's not comprehensive, because I only went through and manually crafted one wagon - the Llamarble 9.1 one - that wasn't in the official VC's.
There's several Llamarble, Cyan, Vi voting blocks on town (Kami, DYH) that are kind of twigging paranoia regarding Cyan/Vi.
Plus that flashwagon on Iso early in game would be all town, which is possible given that I'm not even sure Fate or Cyouni had checked in at that point. Mm.
I'll look stuff over more tomorrow.
....speaking of appropriating things as their own, here's Voxxicus taking only official VCs (easy enough to find for anyone) and a particular cherrypicked 5-vote wagon - when I already went through and listed every 5-vote wagon in the game, some of which were never on the vote counts.
Oh, and still not clarifying a thing about his claim. Which, I can predict, is going to be rather less a certain thing that some people imagine it to be tomorrow.
---------------------
Whatever. It's near deadline, no one wants to lynch Voxxicus, Cyan, or Nacho, and frankly, I'm past caring. Any lynch is better than no lynch, yadda, yadda.
Vote: desCoures
Do not shoot Cyouni tonight. Do not let Voxxicus off the hook tomorrow, especially if he claims roleblocker, tracker, one-shot cop, or odd day cop. JoaT is also one of the easiest things in the world to falseclaim.
Next best guesses for scum would be Cyan and Nacho. No matter how scummy his play this day 2 has been, DYH should be cleared - completely if Voxxicus is scum, mostly barring godfather shenanigans if Voxxicus is town.
Good luck to town. Don't let Voxxicus lead you astray - whether he be Judas or mere blind guide, that way lies ruin.
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Thor, do you know why his two scumpartners were lynched the first two days? Because Fate bussed the hell out of them. If there's anyone who lulz busses, it's Fate.
How do you spot the difference between a Fate lulz bus and a Fate 'I want to lynch this filthy town' vote then?
Generally you take this knowledge and use it to not clear people from Fate lulz busses. What would make Fate's push look more like a lulz bus to you?
Cyan: Cyan is attacking {dC, Cyouni} which is definitely not something he would do while pulling the whole "i don't know what's going on" game as scum and with a buddy down day 1. He's back to solid townfriend.
I'm curious as to what you're basing this on.
Both the behaviour and the analysis of that behaviour. Because the only statements he's made regarding that are all revolving around day 1.
"I don't know what's going on" - post #1050, which happened today. Cyan's been consistently pushing you/dC since then. Analysis of the behavior... it's not really something anyone would do as scum, really. I'm not sure where your confusion comes in.
Cyouni I've also quantified why I think he's town, re:Fate. Granted, his barning of me today is a little strange... but, at the risk of being impolitic, let me make something clear. I think Cyouni is pretty bad at being scum, and should have been obvious as day by now if he was.
What has he done that would be particularly impressive for him to pull off as scum?
Fake a town mindset, for the most part. The only bubble of uncertainty for me is the bit where he barned what I said about Cyan.
OK so i won't wall, but i will drop a series of what I like to call "minor observations" by examining what everyone has done today:
Thor: Thor maybe maybe might be scum. There is at least one scum in {dC, Cyouni} and he is definitely defending both of them (special emphasis on the dc defense). He has been shutting down his options if he actually is scum, so there's always that, and there is the earlier townread that I sort of want to continue to value. Thor most likely defending two scum in a game pretty strongly is always worth a second look, though.
Cyan: Cyan is attacking {dC, Cyouni} which is definitely not something he would do while pulling the whole "i don't know what's going on" game as scum and with a buddy down day 1. He's back to solid townfriend.
dC: I actually read earlier that dC was so confident in Voxxicus-scum that he figured it was far more likely he was just fakeclaiming. That "I'm tunneling a claimed power role who is likely town" was something that worked decently once on Llamarble, but happening for a second time on another claimed power role doesn't really make me feel that good, not to mention that dC only gets REAL CONVICTION when Voxxicus starts pushing him pretty hard. His play is also pretty much what I'd expect from scum in his position; keeping his options open and protecting partner-Cyouni.
cyouni is not THAT commentable but i'll look through him again later, i've sort of been separating myself from his lately to see other things, but if thor's not scum (which i doubt at the moment), cyouni almost certainly is.
I like how you have me as 'protecting partner-Cyouni' without being sure my supposed partner is Cyouni, and in fact saying absolutely nothing about him. In fact, this entire 'analysis' is predicated on the, to my mind, 75% false premise that there's scum between me and Cyouni.
If Voxxicus is actually town, the way you seem to be totally swallowing his ridiculous assumption and appropriating it for your own use just screams scum.
Right now, it looks like a decent assumption. In order for there not to be scum in {dC, Cyouni}, There needs to be scum in {Vi, Cyan}. Vi's play as scum this game would have to be stupidly bussy even from a surface level, and Cyan's play would be incredibly impressive to pull off as scum.
Swallowing his ridiculous assumption that he's town and his investigation target is town? It didn't seem the ridiculous to me.
Quote from DesCoures »
Do not shoot Cyouni tonight.
This sounds like something I would say as scum while I go down! It's a nice piece of WIFOM regardless of alignments.
Next best guesses for scum would be Cyan and Nacho. No matter how scummy his play this day 2 has been, DYH should be cleared - completely if Voxxicus is scum, mostly barring godfather shenanigans if Voxxicus is town.
Good luck to town. Don't let Voxxicus lead you astray - whether he be Judas or mere blind guide, that way lies ruin.
What happened to "I don't see Cyan as scum with anyone if Voxxicus is actually town"?
Shooting Cyouni is still probably best. If he flips town, Thor/I can be sorted tomorrow and I will most likely become obvtown in the process. I do think it's important for Llamarble to establish either a "getting shot" or "not getting shot" person for Voxxicus.
So, five hours to deadline and exactly one person has more than one vote on them. The best strategic option really seems to be letting this wagon go through...
...but since we're being graded, I'd rather someone else hammered. {\o^v^o/}
I'm not asking for a massive wall of quotes and words - a paragraph or so, or key points for two scum reads is fine.
But you've done absolutely nothing this game other than throw reasonless vote after reasonless vote around, and it's exasperating.
Convince me that you're not scum that knows dC is town, and is making sure to properly distance himself from the wagon, while making sure it goes through.
I think I'm still alright with lynching dC, because I can absolutely see the self-voting and self-righteous 'YOU'LL BE SORRY WHEN I FLIP TOWN' being faked from scum.
But Vi's two posts above make me significantly less happy with it.
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Here is my exact statement on the subject, which I have already previously referenced today:
If I were scum, I would never have bussed AF there. I gain absolutely nothing out of doing so(you could even argue that I look worse because I gave up the Iso case that I had been on all day). But I did it anyway, because it was the correct play, as town.
@Voxx: Meh. This game has made me realize how much I depend upon meta, honestly. I'm pretty lost without having it to filter out 'naturally scummy playstyles'. I had no such analysis available for KoL, and look how that turned out. And Nacho looks like town now as well based on his behavior toward AF yesterday, despite acting thoroughly scummy for most of Day 1.
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Non-Staff Quasi-ModYou know, given that this was the post that you were responding to when you said "I didn't have a scum read on AF, and he flipped scum."
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Non-Staff Quasi-ModTOWN:
Llamarble
Voxxicus
DYH
Cyan
Vi
Thor665
SCUM:
desCoures
Cyouni
I feel like I'm not the first to call dibs on this scumteam (Cyan might've called it first?), but in any case it feels really, really good right now.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=14367
Thor, do you know why his two scumpartners were lynched the first two days? Because Fate bussed the hell out of them. If there's anyone who lulz busses, it's Fate.
Investigative soft claim clearing DYH did wonders, actually. I had you as town for most of Day 1 and Day 2 for your intensive questioning, but now I'm starting to lean that I might have just been in love with your playstyle. I'm gonna venture into the selective reread business right about now since ISOs still drive me crazy, so be prepared for an unnecessarily long wall!
What has he done that would be particularly impressive for him to pull off as scum?
Thor: Thor maybe maybe might be scum. There is at least one scum in {dC, Cyouni} and he is definitely defending both of them (special emphasis on the dc defense). He has been shutting down his options if he actually is scum, so there's always that, and there is the earlier townread that I sort of want to continue to value. Thor most likely defending two scum in a game pretty strongly is always worth a second look, though.
Cyan: Cyan is attacking {dC, Cyouni} which is definitely not something he would do while pulling the whole "i don't know what's going on" game as scum and with a buddy down day 1. He's back to solid townfriend.
dC: I actually read earlier that dC was so confident in Voxxicus-scum that he figured it was far more likely he was just fakeclaiming. That "I'm tunneling a claimed power role who is likely town" was something that worked decently once on Llamarble, but happening for a second time on another claimed power role doesn't really make me feel that good, not to mention that dC only gets REAL CONVICTION when Voxxicus starts pushing him pretty hard. His play is also pretty much what I'd expect from scum in his position; keeping his options open and protecting partner-Cyouni.
cyouni is not THAT commentable but i'll look through him again later, i've sort of been separating myself from his lately to see other things, but if thor's not scum (which i doubt at the moment), cyouni almost certainly is.
How do you spot the difference between a Fate lulz bus and a Fate 'I want to lynch this filthy town' vote then?
I don't really care for where Cyouni's line of questioning is going with Cyan. He clearly stated at the times when he voted Fate why he was doing it, and how he felt regarding the votes. It seems like a bit of a stretch to assume malicious intent when it ended up being a vote on a guy who flipped scum.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
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Non-Staff Quasi-ModAnd that last line is pretty much "if the vote's on scum, there can't be anything wrong with it".
If Cyouni is scum, I could see Thor being scum also.
Ultimately, Cyouni is the most likely scum in my book, no matter how you spin it.
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Non-Staff Quasi-ModBoth the behaviour and the analysis of that behaviour. Because the only statements he's made regarding that are all revolving around day 1.
@Cyan:
Answer.
Both votes. And yeah, I just think Cyan would've done a better job bussing the hell out of Fate as his scum partner to, as you seem to be implying, get some town cred out of it. He really didn't.
And since I still don't think that Fate/you was a bus job, for once I think Thor and I agree on something - this feels like a town/town fight.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Players needed to lynch: 5
Cyan - 1 - Cyouni - (L-4)
Cyouni - 1 - Cyan - (L-4)
desCoures - 2 - Voxxicus, Nachomamma8 - (L-3)
Thor665 - 1 - DYH - (L-4)
Voxxicus - 1 - Thor665 - (L-4)
Players not voting: desCoures, Llamarble, Vierni
Deadline in 26 hours.
Also, you are not impressing anyone.
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Non-Staff Quasi-ModEverything you've said has been related to the one at deadline, and absolutely nothing to do with the one significantly before that. And you obviously didn't think he was town then.
I didn't even remember that I ever voted him before my deadline vote on him. So..these two votes have nothing to do with each other, and never did.
Talk about much ado about nothing.
DYH looks sketchy but roleinfo is roleinfo. Vi / Cyan look good.
Cyouni #124 does give me the 'urrgh is this guy gonna flip town' feeling.
It's a pretty well executed 'LOLNOPEFAIL' if he's scum
132 notable also.
Was dC trying to reverse psychology me into not killing Fate?
Which obviously hurts Cyouni
I think I want to vote dC though so I'm just going to reread him alone and hopefully finish the rest before deadline.
Unvote; Vote DesCoures
Not 100% sure of my vig target at this point.
Nacho / Thor / Cyouni all have arguments.
Fate/desCoures/Cyouni makes the most sense, but doesn't feel right.
It'd mean I was wrong about dC and Cyouni being town on D1, and my early town reads are usually more accurate than that.
But I think the only person I could justify lynching/vigging over them would be Nacho, and that's if I ignore interactions and go purely off gut and early game behavior.
I'll get shot tonight, which isn't the worst thing - will mean Llamarble gets 2 more kills off.
Lynch dC, vig Cyouni.
Lynch Nacho, vig Thor.
Hope the scum team isn't Fate/Vi/Cyan, as the last day would be DYH/Vi/Cyan, in the event that the game isn't over at that point.
Mm.
Still want to finish up my re-read and dump some votals/thoughts, but I'm pretty okay with a dC lynch, and either Cyouni or Nacho getting vigged.
I don't have an information night action tonight that would be relevant to overlap, so yeah.
Vi still bothers me on an instinctual, gut level. I still think there's a good chance of being one scum between Cyan and Vi based on voting blocks, and Vi is the more likely of the two.
Meh. I have Tuesday off of work, so I'll focus on this for a few hours then.
I was never worried about getting lynched, due to my role, so that probably didn't help my lack of ****s to give regarding appearing obvious town as usual.
I see.
I'll make some time tomorrow evening, then.
Somehow.
Voxxicus
Iso
Kami of Lunacy
Llamarble
DYH
desCoures
Cyan
Cyouni
Thor665
Nachomamma8
Vierni
Aggressive_Fate
VC1
Kami of Lunacy - 2 - Nachomamma8, desCoures - (L-5)
Thor665 - 2 - Vierni, DYH - (L-5)
Iso - 2 - Thor665, Cyan - (L-5)
desCoures - 1 - Voxxicus - (L-6)
DYH - 1 - Iso - (L-6)
Vierni - 1 - Llamarble - (L-6)
Abstaining - 3 - Kami of Lunacy, Aggressive_Fate, Cyouni
VC2
Iso - 5 - Thor665, Cyan, Vierni, Kami of Lunacy, Nachomamma8 - (L-2)
Kami of Lunacy - 1 - desCoures - (L-6)
Nachomamma8 - 1 - Voxxicus - (L-6)
Thor665 - 1 - DYH - (L-6)
Cyouni - 1 - Llamarble - (L-6)
Vierni - 1 - Iso - (L-6)
Abstaining - 2 - Aggressive_Fate, Cyouni
VC3
Iso - 4 - Thor665, Cyan, Kami of Lunacy, Aggressive_Fate - (L-3)
Cyouni - 2 - Llamarble, Vierni - (L-5)
Nachomamma8 - 2 - Voxxicus, Iso - (L-5)
Kami of Lunacy - 1 - desCoures - (L-6)
Aggressive_Fate - 1 - Nachomamma8 - (L-6)
Thor665 - 1 - DYH - (L-6)
Vierni - 1 - Cyouni - (L-6)
VC4
Iso - 4 - Thor665, Cyan, Kami of Lunacy, Aggressive_Fate - (L-3)
Thor665 - 2 - DYH, Iso - (L-5)
Cyouni - 2 - Llamarble, Vierni - (L-5)
Aggressive_Fate - 1 - Nachomamma8 - (L-6)
Llamarble - 1 - desCoures - (L-6)
Nachomamma8 - 1 - Voxxicus - (L-6)
Vierni - 1 - Cyouni - (L-6)
VC5
Cyouni - 5 - Llamarble, Vierni, Aggressive_Fate, Nachomamma8, Thor665 - (L-2)
Nachomamma8 - 3 - Voxxicus, Iso, Kami of Lunacy - (L-4)
Aggressive_Fate - 1 - Cyouni - (L-6)
Kami of Lunacy - 1 - Cyan - (L-6)
Llamarble - 1 - desCoures - (L-6)
Abstaining - 1 - DYH
VC6
Nachomamma8 - 4 - Voxxicus, Iso, DYH, Cyan - (L-3)
Cyouni - 4 - Llamarble, Aggressive_Fate, Nachomamma8, Thor665 - (L-3)
Aggressive_Fate - 1 - Cyouni - (L-6)
DYH - 1 - Vierni - (L-6)
Llamarble - 1 - desCoures - (L-6)
Thor665 - 1 - Kami of Lunacy - (L-6)
VC7
DYH - 3 - Vierni, Llamarble, Cyan - (L-4)
Cyouni - 2 - Aggressive_Fate, Nachomamma8 - (L-5)
Iso - 2 - Thor665, desCoures - (L-5)
Nachomamma8 - 2 - Voxxicus, Iso - (L-5)
Thor665 - 2 - DYH, Kami of Lunacy - (L-5)
Aggressive_Fate - 1 - Cyouni - (L-6)
VC8
Thor665 - 3 - DYH, Kami of Lunacy, Iso - (L-4)
Iso - 3 - Thor665, desCoures, Aggressive_Fate - (L-4)
Kami of Lunacy - 3 - Llamarble, Cyan, Vierni - (L-4)
Nachomamma8 - 1 - Voxxicus - (L-6)
Aggressive_Fate - 1 - Cyouni - (L-6)
Cyouni - 1 - Nachomamma8 - (L-6)
VC9
Llamarble - 4 - desCoures, Kami of Lunacy, Iso, Cyouni - (L-3)
Kami of Lunacy - 3 - Llamarble, Cyan, Vierni - (L-4)
Iso - 2 - Thor665, Aggressive_Fate - (L-5)
Nachomamma8 - 1 - Voxxicus - (L-6)
Thor665 - 1 - DYH - (L-6)
Cyouni - 1 - Nachomamma8 - (L-6)
VC9.1
Llamarble - 5 - desCoures, Kami of Lunacy, Iso, Cyouni, Voxxicus - (L-2)
Kami of Lunacy - 3 - Llamarble, Cyan, Vierni - (L-4)
Iso - 2 - Thor665, Aggressive_Fate - (L-5)
Thor665 - 1 - DYH - (L-6)
Cyouni - 1 - Nachomamma8 - (L-6)
VC10
Iso - 5 - Thor665, Aggressive_Fate, Cyan, Voxxicus, Llamarble - (L-2)
Llamarble - 3 - desCoures, Iso, Cyouni - (L-4)
Thor665 - 2 - DYH, Kami of Lunacy - (L-5)
Aggressive_Fate - 1 - Nachomamma8 - (L-6)
Kami of Lunacy - 1 - Vierni - (L-6)
VC11 - D1 End
Aggressive_Fate - 7 - Nachomamma8, Vierni, Llamarble, Kami of Lunacy, DYH, Cyan, Cyouni - (L-0)
Iso - 4 - Thor665, Aggressive_Fate, Voxxicus, desCoures - (L-3)
Llamarble - 1 - Iso - (L-6)
VC12
Voxxicus - 3 - Vierni, Nachomamma8, Llamarble - (L-2)
Cyan - 2 - desCoures, Cyouni - (L-3)
DYH - 1 - Thor665 - (L-4)
Thor665 - 1 - DYH - (L-4)
Abstaining - 2 - Cyan, Voxxicus
There's several Llamarble, Cyan, Vi voting blocks on town (Kami, DYH) that are kind of twigging paranoia regarding Cyan/Vi.
Plus that flashwagon on Iso early in game would be all town, which is possible given that I'm not even sure Fate or Cyouni had checked in at that point. Mm.
I'll look stuff over more tomorrow.
But sleep.
I needs it.
If Cyouni is town then I could see Thor being sane and not taking 'Fate can lulz bus' as 'Fate must lulz bus'.
It still doesn't look like a lulz bus.
I think that *is* a first.
The point being it shows he has a point in what he's pushing on you.
I think he's wrong, but he has logical flow to what he's saying and isn't derpa-herping a scum case on you and also explains his apparent frustration with your play.
Hint: that increases the odds he's town.
@VOXX - I asked you a clarification question about your investigation and you just sort of slurped along without giving me the time of day.
Specifically - is the 90% sureness from you a matter of uncertainty of roles that could affect your results or is it because of unsureness in what the results themselves mean.
This matters to me quite a bit.
I'm annoyed no one else is asking it.
Please answer.
Well...he could be a Godfather.
Or if you're like - I'm a PR that offers unclear info that I have chosen to translate as equating to town.
Because it makes a big difference when looking at wagons which theory we're going with.
LOLSCUM
MAYBE LOLSCUM
/Seppel
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@Nachomamma8
Fake a town mindset, for the most part. The only bubble of uncertainty for me is the bit where he barned what I said about Cyan.
I like how you have me as 'protecting partner-Cyouni' without being sure my supposed partner is Cyouni, and in fact saying absolutely nothing about him. In fact, this entire 'analysis' is predicated on the, to my mind, 75% false premise that there's scum between me and Cyouni.
If Voxxicus is actually town, the way you seem to be totally swallowing his ridiculous assumption and appropriating it for your own use just screams scum.
@llamarble
Oh, I was trying to reverse psychology you into not killing Fate, when Voxxicus did the exact same thing, only much less absolutely? You know, the very point I thought about and included in my analysis of Voxxicus, which I'm increasingly beginning to think you're just skipping?
Why in blazes does Cyan 'look good' to you again? Just because you thought he was town day 1?
And why the heck would scum want to lynch Cyan in particular when he's nowhere near leadership this game, or even close to being particularly right?
Get your head in the game, please. Which means not shooting Cyouni, by the way, because Cyan-scum wants it that way.
(And don't even start on the reverse psychology, or you'll feel that much more embarrassed when I flip townie.)
@Voxxicus
Oh, if you actually are town, we will have words postgame.
....speaking of appropriating things as their own, here's Voxxicus taking only official VCs (easy enough to find for anyone) and a particular cherrypicked 5-vote wagon - when I already went through and listed every 5-vote wagon in the game, some of which were never on the vote counts.
Oh, and still not clarifying a thing about his claim. Which, I can predict, is going to be rather less a certain thing that some people imagine it to be tomorrow.
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Whatever. It's near deadline, no one wants to lynch Voxxicus, Cyan, or Nacho, and frankly, I'm past caring. Any lynch is better than no lynch, yadda, yadda.
Vote: desCoures
Do not shoot Cyouni tonight. Do not let Voxxicus off the hook tomorrow, especially if he claims roleblocker, tracker, one-shot cop, or odd day cop. JoaT is also one of the easiest things in the world to falseclaim.
Next best guesses for scum would be Cyan and Nacho. No matter how scummy his play this day 2 has been, DYH should be cleared - completely if Voxxicus is scum, mostly barring godfather shenanigans if Voxxicus is town.
Good luck to town. Don't let Voxxicus lead you astray - whether he be Judas or mere blind guide, that way lies ruin.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Generally you take this knowledge and use it to not clear people from Fate lulz busses. What would make Fate's push look more like a lulz bus to you?
"I don't know what's going on" - post #1050, which happened today. Cyan's been consistently pushing you/dC since then. Analysis of the behavior... it's not really something anyone would do as scum, really. I'm not sure where your confusion comes in.
I'd be interested in hearing a Nacho argument.
I was hoping for something more... concrete?
Right now, it looks like a decent assumption. In order for there not to be scum in {dC, Cyouni}, There needs to be scum in {Vi, Cyan}. Vi's play as scum this game would have to be stupidly bussy even from a surface level, and Cyan's play would be incredibly impressive to pull off as scum.
Swallowing his ridiculous assumption that he's town and his investigation target is town? It didn't seem the ridiculous to me.
This sounds like something I would say as scum while I go down! It's a nice piece of WIFOM regardless of alignments.
What happened to "I don't see Cyan as scum with anyone if Voxxicus is actually town"?
I'm not thrilled with how that basically cements him as the lynch, but etc.
--
@Llamarble: Not yet.
...but since we're being graded, I'd rather someone else hammered. {\o^v^o/}
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desCoures - 4 - Voxxicus, Nachomamma8, llamarble, desCoures - (L-1)
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Q: Do all Days on this site go like this? The never-actually-deciding-anything-until-deadline-forces-people-to way, I mean.
Who do you actually think is scum, and why?
I'm not asking for a massive wall of quotes and words - a paragraph or so, or key points for two scum reads is fine.
But you've done absolutely nothing this game other than throw reasonless vote after reasonless vote around, and it's exasperating.
Convince me that you're not scum that knows dC is town, and is making sure to properly distance himself from the wagon, while making sure it goes through.
But Vi's two posts above make me significantly less happy with it.