dC is an exceptional town player. Given my thoughts thus far, I'm not seeing the typical results, hence the suspicion.
Oh, really?
That sounds rather unlike what you said here, which distinctly reads like you disagree with what llamarble said. You know, where llamarble says basically the exact same thing you say here.
And what exactly are the 'typical results', pray tell?
That post is a week into the game. I certainly didn't agree that you should be dead from a lynch, and I suspect llama wasn't aware/used to your play style of the once-a-day-content dumps.
As far as "typical results" - much better reads. This is clearly subjective in part because of how I feel about people who aren't dead yet (llama, Thor).
Re: KoL - I recall you poking at her in the early game, and then later harping on Cyan for his read on her. His read was founded in her early play, because he was on her case all day long; feels inconsistent.
Two things -
Firstly, yes, I poked at her in the early game. Like less than a hundred posts in, because she was doing nothing and then went V/LA. And then when she actually started contributing I was pretty sure she was town. What's inconsistent there?
Likewise, because I had a town read on her after that, I 'harped on Cyan' for his apparently unchanging read of her - especially since, as I noted in my review, he was not, in fact, 'on her case all day long'. What's inconsistent there?
(Answer - nothing is inconsistent. You're making up points as you go along.)[/quote]
No, it's pretty straightforward. You had an issue with her play early, Cyan's read on her was pretty much all day long. Therefore, the two things were related. Not sure what there is to miss about this. We apparently disagree on Cyan being on her case "all day long", but I don't seem to recall one instance where Cyan wasn't including KoL as a lynch/vig candidate and harping on her play.
As for the rest, your 890 comes on the heels of two votes for Fate in the prior five posts, so that reads a little insincere. The possibility of a scum roleblocker exists as it pertains to the poison-targeting.
So are we playing what-ifs now? 'What if' there is a scum roleblocker. 'What if' I had some convoluted plan involving said scum roleblocker, when I could have easily exhorted him to shoot Voxxicus instead - or do you think Voxxicus and I are scum together after this whole rigmarole? Those aren't the words of someone looking for scum. Those are the words of someone looking to cast doubt.[/QUOTE]
It's certainly possible, yes. I don't see reason to elaborate at this point, but my speculation isn't entirely baseless. You are right insofar that I hadn't thought the combinations through that far yet. I spent much of day one tied up in Thor, so to say I'm evaluating things in hindsight would be fair.
dC is an exceptional town player. Given my thoughts thus far, I'm not seeing the typical results, hence the suspicion.
Oh, really?
That sounds rather unlike what you said here, which distinctly reads like you disagree with what llamarble said. You know, where llamarble says basically the exact same thing you say here.
And what exactly are the 'typical results', pray tell?
That post is a week into the game. I certainly didn't agree that you should be dead from a lynch, and I suspect llama wasn't aware/used to your play style of the once-a-day-content dumps.
As far as "typical results" - much better reads. This is clearly subjective in part because of how I feel about people who aren't dead yet (llama, Thor).
Re: KoL - I recall you poking at her in the early game, and then later harping on Cyan for his read on her. His read was founded in her early play, because he was on her case all day long; feels inconsistent.
Two things -
Firstly, yes, I poked at her in the early game. Like less than a hundred posts in, because she was doing nothing and then went V/LA. And then when she actually started contributing I was pretty sure she was town. What's inconsistent there?
Likewise, because I had a town read on her after that, I 'harped on Cyan' for his apparently unchanging read of her - especially since, as I noted in my review, he was not, in fact, 'on her case all day long'. What's inconsistent there?
(Answer - nothing is inconsistent. You're making up points as you go along.)
No, it's pretty straightforward. You had an issue with her play early, Cyan's read on her was pretty much all day long. Therefore, the two things were related. Not sure what there is to miss about this. We apparently disagree on Cyan being on her case "all day long", but I don't seem to recall one instance where Cyan wasn't including KoL as a lynch/vig candidate and harping on her play.
As for the rest, your 890 comes on the heels of two votes for Fate in the prior five posts, so that reads a little insincere. The possibility of a scum roleblocker exists as it pertains to the poison-targeting.
So are we playing what-ifs now? 'What if' there is a scum roleblocker. 'What if' I had some convoluted plan involving said scum roleblocker, when I could have easily exhorted him to shoot Voxxicus instead - or do you think Voxxicus and I are scum together after this whole rigmarole? Those aren't the words of someone looking for scum. Those are the words of someone looking to cast doubt.
It's certainly possible, yes. I don't see reason to elaborate at this point, but my speculation isn't entirely baseless. You are right insofar that I hadn't thought the combinations through that far yet. I spent much of day one tied up in Thor, so to say I'm evaluating things in hindsight would be fair.
I've played this game enough to understand that playstyle isn't the same thing as alignment. If you want a real playstyle vote, dC's day one "doesn't give reasons for reads when asked" is a solid example.
The first thing I see is that you're somehow thinking that he's arguing that you arranged for everyone to die, when it's obviously more along the lines of "all the flips fit with you being scum".
That doesn't actually make sense though - they "fit" with a large number of people being scum, they certainly don't fit with me more for some reason. Also, i don't think that's what he's saying, he specifically pointed out how the dead who flipped town suspected me - that's an accusation that I arranged for their deaths, yeah? That's how I read it. Why do you think it isn't?
What I read out of it, given their suspicion had nothing to do with why they're dead, is the fact that their alignment's confirmed.
Second, no, it's not about the change in your playstyle (and not anything re: snark/sarcasm, despite how much you've been shouting it), it's how you dropped aggression - "He's just going along with the flow - even saying as much, that he'd basically place a vote on anyone at one point - yet trying to convince people he's still the same ol' snarky, belligerent Thor when he's really not been."
Well...I will note that *is* an argument about a change in playstyle. I can't very well be defending that I didn't change if I hadn't been accussed of changing.
Yes, it does have to do with the snark/sarcasm thing because that's what he noted as the change.
He did also note the "going with the flow thing" But I would counter that Nacho, probably the player here who has the most awareness of my playstyle specifically noted that comment as exceedingly normal from me - ergo, not a "change". If DYH is pushing what you say he's pushing (and I don't think he is) does it not worry you that he ignored that rather relevant piece of meta from an outside party?
No, there's a difference between snark -> sarcasm and snark/sarcasm -> nonexistent.
Third, nowhere will you find that he says you arranged for both to be dead, and I'm also sure that nowhere will you find that he says that it benefits you.
Which brings us back again to what is he saying about it. He pointed out there were two dead town who suspected me - my inference is that he means it is beneficial to me they are dead.
If all he's saying is, two players who are no confirmed town suspected you so we know their suspicion was honest...I guess I'd say 'sure - but that hardly means it was right either' I suspected Iso, that doesn't make Iso magically scum if I died first unless my case was any good to begin with.
They're the only two confirmed opinions. That means a lot more than you're ascribing.
I haven't bothered for a while since it's falling on deaf ears. Hell, the only reason you even noticed that once was because I challenged you to quote it. It's not worth the energy.
And I did quote it.
I'm sorry that debate tuckers you out, but it's how I scumhunt. I don't see the actual issue there as I'm not ignoring things with 'deaf ears' I'm hearing things and stating why I don't agree with them. I could just as easily whine that my brilliance is falling on deaf ears back at you and have the same validity to do so, it's a nonsensical point - neither of us are deaf, we have a difference of opinion.
No, when I challenged you to quote it you realized it didn't exist and retracted it.
That doesn't mean stopping communication is pro-town when communication isn't easy - in fact that is when it's best *not* to stop communication.
Last I checked.
Do you think the flips make me more likely to be scum in the way DYH is suggesting to your mind? Or do you think the flips simply don't totally rule me out of being scum, in which case it seems an odd tack for DYH to take as a push on me, yeah?
I think it would have been a good tack, if I didn't have reasons for you to be town that overrode that.
I don't have extensive experience with Town!Cyan. Checks and Balances as it. The rest is all reputation, and I was struggling to reconcile the Cyan I've seen (and heard about) with the 'yeah, I guess you can lynch me, it might be for the best' humble, almost self-depreciating Cyan I was seeing there. It felt weird, and I wanted to see how he'd respond.
With such a soft question, that's really odd.
Your question gets nowhere no matter the answer. If he says yes, then it goes nowhere. If he says no, then it still goes nowhere - see his answer. It's a throwaway question.
I'm happy with the DC wagon being the biggest, and am eagerly awaiting his claim(given that he is at L-2).
I remain unsurprised.
And now that I look at how you've been addressing Voxxicus, you've never stated a read on him, yet have leaped to defend him at every opportunity. This is especially true on that question that only works if Thor's statement is taken out of context.
desCoures, please offer your best explanation for why you almost completely ignored Fate D1, given your "thorough" style of posting.
Huh? Ignored Fate?
I'm pretty certain I had a scum read of him since his less than inspiring exchange with Cyouni - the same one that led me to entirely reverse my scum read on Cyouni up to that point.
If you're asking why I didn't quote many of his posts, then I'd say the first reason is because my posting style tends to lean towards going through the posts since my last post, quote-marking anything I want to respond to and/or point out, then clicking 'Post Reply'. And as far as Fate's posts went, his noise-to-content ratio was remarkably high. And I'm not in the habit of quoting nonsense posts often. People already say they have problems paying attention to my posts as it is.
As for the other reason, I was focused on llamarble, and growing increasingly frustrated at the mix of people ignoring me and being stonewalled on various fronts. Not proud of it, but there it is.
dC is an exceptional town player. Given my thoughts thus far, I'm not seeing the typical results, hence the suspicion.
Oh, really?
That sounds rather unlike what you said here, which distinctly reads like you disagree with what llamarble said. You know, where llamarble says basically the exact same thing you say here.
And what exactly are the 'typical results', pray tell?
That post is a week into the game. I certainly didn't agree that you should be dead from a lynch, and I suspect llama wasn't aware/used to your play style of the once-a-day-content dumps.
As far as "typical results" - much better reads. This is clearly subjective in part because of how I feel about people who aren't dead yet (llama, Thor).
And yet, as day 1 went on, you still never said half a word about me. Nor did you do so at the beginning of day 2. And now suddenly I'm near the bottom of your T/S list? What gives?
And I know for a fact you've played enough with me to know that sometimes, just like Cyan, I'm just plain wrong. I don't even know why I got killed N1 in Ataghan, considering how ridiculously off I was that game. And in Conflux Mafia, I was right about RobRoy for the wrong reasons, but thanks to those wrong reasons was after some town player for the entirety of day 1.
...and, come to think of it, what in the world is your metric for 'better reads' anyway? Yes, I was wrong on Iso and llamarble. I was also right about KoL and Fate. And as for day 2, both of the people I was initially attacking - Voxxicus and Cyan - were only just above me on your T/S list.
I don't buy it. Your reasoning sounds very much like the sound of male cows defecating in an open field.
Re: KoL - I recall you poking at her in the early game, and then later harping on Cyan for his read on her. His read was founded in her early play, because he was on her case all day long; feels inconsistent.
Two things -
Firstly, yes, I poked at her in the early game. Like less than a hundred posts in, because she was doing nothing and then went V/LA. And then when she actually started contributing I was pretty sure she was town. What's inconsistent there?
Likewise, because I had a town read on her after that, I 'harped on Cyan' for his apparently unchanging read of her - especially since, as I noted in my review, he was not, in fact, 'on her case all day long'. What's inconsistent there?
(Answer - nothing is inconsistent. You're making up points as you go along.)
No, it's pretty straightforward. You had an issue with her play early, Cyan's read on her was pretty much all day long. Therefore, the two things were related. Not sure what there is to miss about this. We apparently disagree on Cyan being on her case "all day long", but I don't seem to recall one instance where Cyan wasn't including KoL as a lynch/vig candidate and harping on her play.
I had an issue with her play 'less than a week into the game', to use the exact same justification you used above re: the response you gave to llamarble. And I'm really not sure how you can have missed that she was playing entirely differently (read: much better) once she got off V/LA, and how that changed my read of her. That was very much a reason why I started 'harping on Cyan', because his opinion appeared to have not changed in the least despite this dramatic change in her play quality, and he couldn't even give me proper reasons when I asked.
Speaking of Cyan, now you're just showing how you're not actually reading. In my review of you, Voxxicus, and Cyan, I quoted the exact post where Cyan sides with Fate over Cyouni while saying that 'the only players he finds scummy are from MtGS', with his only hedge being Nacho, not KoL.
Despite having Cyan near the bottom of your T/S list, you're showing absolutely no interest in what I had to say about him, hm? Not a town mindset in the least.
As for the rest, your 890 comes on the heels of two votes for Fate in the prior five posts, so that reads a little insincere. The possibility of a scum roleblocker exists as it pertains to the poison-targeting.
So are we playing what-ifs now? 'What if' there is a scum roleblocker. 'What if' I had some convoluted plan involving said scum roleblocker, when I could have easily exhorted him to shoot Voxxicus instead - or do you think Voxxicus and I are scum together after this whole rigmarole? Those aren't the words of someone looking for scum. Those are the words of someone looking to cast doubt.
It's certainly possible, yes. I don't see reason to elaborate at this point, but my speculation isn't entirely baseless. You are right insofar that I hadn't thought the combinations through that far yet. I spent much of day one tied up in Thor, so to say I'm evaluating things in hindsight would be fair.
'Here we see the scum indulging in his native activity - flinging clods of damp earth at an animal of a different species. Note how when approached in a challenging manner by said animal, he swiftly retreats to the safety of a nearby grass hedge, and quiets considerably.'
-------------
It's nearly ironic just how much Voxxicus' accusation of me not reading and/or not thinking apply far more to both him and DYH.
I hadn't realized I wasn't voting Voxxicus. Bar some miraculously townie response and/or claim from him in the next 36-48 hours, I will vote him, before leaving for Prerelease weekend.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
I think I'm back to just wanting to lynch everyone and let Mod sort them out.
I want to be the lazy one in the game again, this is annoying.
I have the golden opportunity for you to be lazy and it comes in the form of a scumwagon. If you miss out on two in a row I'm afraid that you won't be able to live it down
First: I refuse to claim. I see no reason to, as the votes on me are mostly naked votes with zero reasoning.
Why does it matter if our reasoning comes with our votes? I thought the MS-MTGS playstyle differences had already been thoroughly hashed out by this point.
DYH is a more interesting read. I mostly skimmed the D1 Thor/Iso/DYH walls of words, because I found them profoundly uninteresting (and I was working on limited time). Given that, the only thing I had any read on DYH from was him backing down off of Cyan after their interactions, which didn't feel anything like Town!DYH to me at the time. So he was squarely in the Not Town cluster prior to flips and a re-read.
But I re-read the game overnight, and paid closer attention to the Thor/Iso/DYH interactions - I was pretty sure Iso and Fate were scum together, and wanted to solidify that, as well as determine DYH's alignment. What I found was that DYH was incredibly likely to be town. He's convinced he's right, and is tunneling everything into that world view. That's absolutely a town tell, and is one of the most accurate. There's a mindset difference between twisting everything to paint someone as scum, and tunneling hard on them, believing that what they're doing, and what you're saying makes them scum. DYH has that mindset, and is town.
You never actually went in to explain that mindset difference; what makes DYH a town-tunneler as opposed to a scum-tunneler?
Nacho, though, my gut still screams at me that he's scum. His play this game has been beyond abysmal, and everything I said about him early in D1 yesterday still stands. But I can't shake the fact that the Fate/Nacho interactions don't look anything like scumbuddies. It looks like Fate appeasing town that is voting for him, and that conciliatory buddying is just... not something I can really see scum doing to a buddy. Probably. I'd probably have shot him N1 if I was he vig, regardless, though, because gut.
If you still have problems with me, there's no reason to let them simmer at the back of your mind. Address them; dance with me.
I've been focusing on the interactions between people in this cluster, and trying to determine plausible scum teams.
Vi coming out with guns blazing and voting Cyouni prooobbbably means they aren't scum together, not after we lynched Fate on D1. And yes, I think it's entirely likely that Vi bussed Fate D1 - go back and look at the interactions with the late Iso wagon, and everyone pointing Fate out as a good vig target. Scum!Vi trying to get the town credit for leading that lynch rather than just letting Fate get vigged and not benefiting his scum team with the flip at all seems pretty plausible.
I've read back through looking for the Cyan/Vi interaction that indicates they aren't scum together that I noted but I can't find it. I'm going to assume that I wasn't bat**** crazy when I first made that note, though, and there's something there - but not writing it off absolutely.
dC fits fine with any of the other three. I'd say slightly less likely to be scum with Cyouni than Cyan or Vi, but not drastically so (due to wagon analysis).
At least one of dC and Cyouni is scum. I'm heavily leaning towards dC, especially given the way he dismissed the vote count analysis - scum can't argue against wagon analysis, the only thing they can do is A) dismiss it, and B) discredit the person trying to use it.
I see a distinct lack of "why these people are actually scum". Forgive me if I missed it before, but could you supply/requote that reasoning?
@Vi - what happened to wanting to push DYH? I feel like the Cy wagon crumbled and all of a sudden you're on Voxx, I thought I was promised DYH...and if it wasn't you it was Nacho...
I wouldn't protest a DYH lynch. I just think that I should instead Unvote: Voxxicus
Vote: desCoures (L-2)
This stung a little bit. Why?
Llamarble, what do you think of Cyan's latest posting?
@desCoures and the activity disclaimer - I mean everyone, inclusive of you and not exclusive to you.
With regards to your content on Fate - It's not there. Here, I'll even quote mine where you talked about Fate in the post you mentioned where your stance on the Cyouni wagon changed.
Quote from "desCoures 439" »
Although now the thing you're [Cyouni] no longer one of my top suspects for scum, after your back and forth with Aggressive Fate.
Not a stance on Fate.
Quote from "desCoures 439" »
As of right now, I think better of Cyouni (as noted, from his exchange with Aggressive Fate) but worse of you [Iso].
Not a stance on Fate.
Quote from "desCoures 440" »
As previously noted, Cyouni's back-and-forth with Aggressive Fate very much makes him look better and Fate look worse. The way his [Cyouni's] wagon came and went following his vanilla claim makes me very wary of those who switched over to Nacho on the heels of that claim - those being Vierni and DYH, the former more than the latter (admittedly thanks to Iso's interactions with DYH). I suspect an attempt to draw out more claims.
A hint of a stance on Fate promptly brushed over with accusations leveled at other people.
Without quoting everything, Fate gets mentioned in some of your posts later as a potential lynchee, but a reason is never presented and there are always at least two people ahead of him in line for the gallows each time. You even say this--
Quote from "desCoures 890" »
Deadline is closing. I wouldn't mind lynching Fate, but that's probably not going to happen.
Unvote: DYH (who is scum, and all of you are derps)
Vote: Voxx (who stands a far better chance of being scum than desCoures)
There you go Nacho.
Also, apparently I'm being scummy again, because look how eager I am to not address and discuss everything like I had been doing.
The v/la?
Posh, I'm sure that's meaningless.
Later, after being called on my "change in posting" when my v/la ends I'll suddenly and magically begin posting like I had been doing.
The above is a short explanation of why people not voting DYH are derpy.
@dC: See Cyan's note about his attitude re: KoL. I commented on Cyan's odd behavior today, which I'm trying to sort out yet. His Cyouni vote is terrible (inasmuch that I don't think Cyouni is scum), but I don't see a reason for scum!Cyan to be hopping wagons here unless he's scum with you.
@Nacho: That's a fair assessment. I won't bore you with details, but suffice it to say I'm busy and this is way down the priority list.
Voxx needs to claim. The "I'm not claiming for the good of the team" ship has sailed.
Voxx's claim of 'I know DYH is town based on night actions' seems believable to me. If he were scum, I would expect him to just actually commit to a claim somehow.
And I disagree that my vote on Cyouni is bad. Cyouni was run up yesterday, and has continued to act scummy since. This rarely happens with townies, except for really bad ones(which is not a relevant factor for this game).
@dC: See Cyan's note about his attitude re: KoL. I commented on Cyan's odd behavior today, which I'm trying to sort out yet. His Cyouni vote is terrible (inasmuch that I don't think Cyouni is scum), but I don't see a reason for scum!Cyan to be hopping wagons here unless he's scum with you.
@Nacho: That's a fair assessment. I won't bore you with details, but suffice it to say I'm busy and this is way down the priority list.
Voxx needs to claim. The "I'm not claiming for the good of the team" ship has sailed.
He claimed. It's a soft out, but I don't really need to see more quite yet.
Llamarble, since Voxxicus is liable to get shot before you, you have an opportunity for another poison!
I will 100% full claim at the start of Day Three, if I'm alive.
I will say the following:
-I am not a full cop.
-I may or may not have a relevant action to take tonight.
-I am 90-95% certain that DYH is town due to my N1 action, and that he is a bad lynch due to the fact. If I'm shot N2, it should explain what that action was.
That's realistically all that town needs, right now - anything else benefits the scum team far more. They need to decide if I'm worth wasting resources on, or if Llamarble is a better use of them.
Re-read my posts today from the new mindset that I'm town, and DYH is town.
This should explain the hard flip on DYH, as well why it felt like I was 'flailing', defending DYH. I wanted to paint it as a purely meta read, and talk my way out of suspicion, but I simply didn't have time to dedicate to this game, and I'm pretty sure scum are/were pushing against me.
There are two scum in this cluster of six:
Thor
Nacho
Vi
Cyouni
Cyan
desCoures
I want to stretch this day out until near deadline if possible, because now that I'm revealed, I want to dump everything I've been thinking about and working on into the thread prior to that, given the fact that I'm likely to be shot tonight.
I'm frankly willing to consider any of those six as scum at this point.
Vote Count analysis indicates that at least one of desCoures and Cyouni is amazingly likely scum if Llamarble is town, which is a fairly safe bet.
I'm currently leaning towards lynching one, and having Llamarble shoot the other, but more on that once I re-read, look over my notes, and dump.
But that's not happening tonight - I just got home from a 5 hour presentation, I think it went extremely well, and I'm going out with my fiancee to celebrate.
I don't anticipate remembering anything about tonight.
Voxx, me, DYH, Vi are all strong town now. Cyan is the next tier, and then Thor / Cyouni, with Nacho / dC making most sense as the scumteam. So much scum effort >_>
I want to read all Nacho's posts and dC's posts again, but it'll be a labor so that's happening tomorrow. Thor looks awkward after everyone he ever wanted to lynch flipped town and his best friend Fate flipped scum, but eh. I still think Vi has played GREAT if he's scum and the same goes for Cyan (I'm just less familiar with him).
Fate is very very good as scum (he got lynched D1 this game, but to be fair he had all manner of claims get in the way of the 3 people who would've been lynched before him actually dying). "Appeasing" a scumpartner is not out of his range. Honestly it's a little silly to be giving Nacho as my top partner for dC without really doing the reread, but I'll get through that tomorrow afternoon.
Betting that Voxxicus would say that the scum chose to target llamarble over him if the night went through.
And I'm pretty sure that no option he could claim would make sense with both the game and his claimed action.
Voxx's claim of 'I know DYH is town based on night actions' seems believable to me. If he were scum, I would expect him to just actually commit to a claim somehow.
And I disagree that my vote on Cyouni is bad. Cyouni was run up yesterday, and has continued to act scummy since. This rarely happens with townies, except for really bad ones(which is not a relevant factor for this game).
Mhm.
That's why you mentioned it...once. And didn't vote. Or make any move towards that. And immediately decided to talk about how my claim "speaks well of me", but say nothing else regarding how that correlates to my alignment.
And not to mention that once Fate started to be a wagon:
Well, some wagon needs to actually happen here. I still don't think Thor is scum, and while I still think that Iso and KoL are the most likely to be scum, and DYH could be, I don't think I was ever going to make any of those cases stick today.
So, Unvote, Vote AF
Huh. It's like you didn't have any reason for voting Fate, but that you just did so to get on a scumwagon.
And not to mention that for a case that's "not sticking", Iso had the same number of votes that Fate did at that point, which is only increased later on by Fate's vote.
And your vote was malleable enough that one vote on KoL was enough to make a case "stick". That being the same person (llamarble) who was the only person voting DYH with you when you said that. With you putting absolutely no effort towards that, despite her going from not being a strong scum read to one of the scummier people in the game. Without you mentioning a single post she made in between then.
What you did was talk about how she's scum, but make literally no effort towards trying to get her lynched until someone else voted her. For all that about "cases not sticking", you put practically no effort into trying to make any of them stick.
Maybe scum will protect Llamarble during the night. But if they do, Voxxicus should have a pretty solid explanation of what he did last night. The thing is, he is claiming investigative role, meaning any real life investigative roles have the chance to counterclaim, sort him out themselves. They know that they won't get shot, and if they get roleblocked then it will look pretty ****ing suspicious, so there's not a whole lot of room for him to navigate at this point. We're not lynching him today.
@Cyan: Do you not have anything to say about Cyouni's most recent post?
Thor picking Voxxicus over desCoures here has all the makings of yesterday's Iso/Fate conundrum. I can't say I'm particularly surprised by his choice. After all, the scum already have to deal with llamarmble, so if the town could not lynch his partner and (BONUS!) go ahead and mislynch the now-claimed investigative role, that'd be great!
So yeah, I'd lynch either Thor or dC at this point. A lot of my feelings about Cyan are tied up in the answer to my question to him above.
Thor picked Voxxicus over dC before the investigative claim, so I don't think your accusation of him trying to mislynch an investigative role is accurate unless he's psychic or something.
@Cyan: Do you not have anything to say about Cyouni's most recent post?
Thor picking Voxxicus over desCoures here has all the makings of yesterday's Iso/Fate conundrum. I can't say I'm particularly surprised by his choice. After all, the scum already have to deal with llamarmble, so if the town could not lynch his partner and (BONUS!) go ahead and mislynch the now-claimed investigative role, that'd be great!
So yeah, I'd lynch either Thor or dC at this point. A lot of my feelings about Cyan are tied up in the answer to my question to him above.
Meh. I didn't have a scum read on AF, and he flipped scum. It happens. It happened yesterday. Cyouni suddenly trying to make a big deal out of this immediately after I called him scum looks really poor. And yes, his claim spoke well of him, for reasons already stated. And then he continued to act scummy. In my experience, when that happens, it usually means that the person is scum.
And Cyouni's response only reinforces this belief for me.
Maybe scum will protect Llamarble during the night. But if they do, Voxxicus should have a pretty solid explanation of what he did last night. The thing is, he is claiming investigative role, meaning any real life investigative roles have the chance to counterclaim, sort him out themselves. They know that they won't get shot, and if they get roleblocked then it will look pretty ****ing suspicious, so there's not a whole lot of room for him to navigate at this point. We're not lynching him today.
@Cyan: Do you not have anything to say about Cyouni's most recent post?
Thor picking Voxxicus over desCoures here has all the makings of yesterday's Iso/Fate conundrum. I can't say I'm particularly surprised by his choice. After all, the scum already have to deal with llamarmble, so if the town could not lynch his partner and (BONUS!) go ahead and mislynch the now-claimed investigative role, that'd be great!
So yeah, I'd lynch either Thor or dC at this point. A lot of my feelings about Cyan are tied up in the answer to my question to him above.
Meh. I didn't have a scum read on AF, and he flipped scum. It happens. It happened yesterday. Cyouni suddenly trying to make a big deal out of this immediately after I called him scum looks really poor. And yes, his claim spoke well of him, for reasons already stated. And then he continued to act scummy. In my experience, when that happens, it usually means that the person is scum.
And Cyouni's response only reinforces this belief for me.
You voted him on the reasoning of the person you were saying was likely scum. And saying "he's suddenly making a big deal out of it" is completely avoiding the fact that I agreed with dC when he mentioned it before, which you completely ignored anyways.
And it was only due to you mentioning my claim that I went back and grabbed the surrounding posts to make a completely different point. Namely, your reaction to it compared to the posts immediately previous to that. Which you still haven't addressed.
I honestly don't even know what you are talking about. I voted AF because 3 people that were likely town were voting AF, and the deadline was very imminent. That is the only reason. I will never attempt to claim any credit for being involved in his wagon.
@desCoures and the activity disclaimer - I mean everyone, inclusive of you and not exclusive to you.
With regards to your content on Fate - It's not there. Here, I'll even quote mine where you talked about Fate in the post you mentioned where your stance on the Cyouni wagon changed.
Quote from "desCoures 439" »
Although now the thing you're [Cyouni] no longer one of my top suspects for scum, after your back and forth with Aggressive Fate.
Not a stance on Fate.
Quote from "desCoures 439" »
As of right now, I think better of Cyouni (as noted, from his exchange with Aggressive Fate) but worse of you [Iso].
Not a stance on Fate.
Quote from "desCoures 440" »
As previously noted, Cyouni's back-and-forth with Aggressive Fate very much makes him look better and Fate look worse. The way his [Cyouni's] wagon came and went following his vanilla claim makes me very wary of those who switched over to Nacho on the heels of that claim - those being Vierni and DYH, the former more than the latter (admittedly thanks to Iso's interactions with DYH). I suspect an attempt to draw out more claims.
A hint of a stance on Fate promptly brushed over with accusations leveled at other people.
Without quoting everything, Fate gets mentioned in some of your posts later as a potential lynchee, but a reason is never presented and there are always at least two people ahead of him in line for the gallows each time. You even say this--
Quote from "desCoures 890" »
Deadline is closing. I wouldn't mind lynching Fate, but that's probably not going to happen.
Unvote: llamarble
Vote: Iso
That should be L-1.
as if you hadn't wanted Iso dead all Day.
Vote stays.
Huh. I looked through my posts and you're actually right. I thought I'd made my position clearer than that, but apparently not.
And yes, I wanted Iso dead all day, because I was convinced of him and llamarble both being scum. Duh.
I will 100% full claim at the start of Day Three, if I'm alive.
I will say the following:
-I am not a full cop.
-I may or may not have a relevant action to take tonight.
-I am 90-95% certain that DYH is town due to my N1 action, and that he is a bad lynch due to the fact. If I'm shot N2, it should explain what that action was.
Claiming a cop is one thing, although it makes your behaviour to this point just plain bad. But at a Basic/Normal complexity, I can think of absolutely no other roles that would give you a '90-95%' certainty that DYH is town. Roleblocker tells you nothing certain. Track tells you he did nothing, big whoop. And one-shot cop or odd-day cop are ridiculously easy false claims to make.
I want to stretch this day out until near deadline if possible, because now that I'm revealed, I want to dump everything I've been thinking about and working on into the thread prior to that, given the fact that I'm likely to be shot tonight.
I'm frankly willing to consider any of those six as scum at this point.
Vote Count analysis indicates that at least one of desCoures and Cyouni is amazingly likely scum if Llamarble is town, which is a fairly safe bet.
I'm currently leaning towards lynching one, and having Llamarble shoot the other, but more on that once I re-read, look over my notes, and dump.
But that's not happening tonight - I just got home from a 5 hour presentation, I think it went extremely well, and I'm going out with my fiancee to celebrate.
I don't anticipate remembering anything about tonight.
That's literally everyone in this game other than you, DYH, and llamarble. And you're still pushing to have me lynched based on... wagon analysis of essentially a single wagon. This when, after having read through the spectator chat of Amistarian 3, you were presented with an example of an 8-man wagon in that game on town with no scum on it.
You say your 'wagon analysis' makes it likely one of me or Cyouni is scum. Yet from the very beginning of this day, you've wanted me dead... or, should I say, the very beginning of this day following my vote on you. You keep mentioning Cyouni in passing as a possible llamarble target but your sights have been set on me since the beginning, and given that I see absolutely no possible reason for this from your posts - Vierni is the only person today who has brought any kind of valid points against me - the only conclusion I can come to is that you want me dead because I was voting you.
@Cyan
...the 'many times you pointed out where KoL was scum'? The 'many times' that you couldn't even reiterate a single one of to me here?
You alternated between vague swipes at KoL, interspersed with bits where you appeared to have 'no real scum read' or 'only MtGS scum reads'. Your 'reasoning' against her was always a one-liner at best, mere assertions at worst, and as pointed out above, you weren't able to quantify a single one when asked about it.
Trying to retcon your history isn't exactly the lesson you should be taking from WotC, Cyan.
------------------------------
....you know what? This isn't worth the headache. Lynch me, so some of you can realize how wrong you've been, and so Voxxicus can be hoist by his own petard.
It's still overwhelmingly likely to me that Voxxicus is false-claiming scum based on behaviour. Beyond that, it's hard to say whether he'd be faking an investigation on a scumbuddy or on someone he knows to be town. Between Cyan and DYH, DYH definitely has the more questionable behaviour today in any case - especially since he was the mod of Amistarian 3, and obviously knows about the 8-man town wagon on town that I mentioned above. However, that would be a ridiculous risk for him to take, unless DYH was a godfather, in which case it would be suicide for him to claim an investigation.
...mm. Actually, now that I work that out, it's exceedingly unlikely that DYH would be scum in this case, if and unless Voxxicus intends to backtrack and claim something other than some brand of cop. DYH should be off the list of possibilities for now, then, pending Voxxicus. So perhaps Voxxicus and Cyan. Cyan's attempts to retcon his behaviour re: KoL yesterday are extremely bad in any case.
In the off-chance that Voxxicus is just playing hideously bad and is seriously pushing a theory lynch by the same stance he took in the Amistarian 3 spectator thread, in which case we will have words in the post-game once I flip town and, as I'm fairly certain, Cyouni will flip town (and if he is scum and people let him get away with this bullcrap, then I'll have words with the rest of the town) - then that means DYH is also town, barring godfather shenanigans. At which point my only strong scumread remaining is Cyan, and I can't see both him and DYH being scum. In which case I'm obviously wrong about one of the other players.
Of the remaining players, llamarble should be resolved automatically one way or the other. I still don't believe Vierni can be anything but town. I've already outlined the reasons why with regard to yesterday, and additionally she's the only person who actually raised any valid points at all against me today.
Cyouni I've also quantified why I think he's town, re:Fate. Granted, his barning of me today is a little strange... but, at the risk of being impolitic, let me make something clear. I think Cyouni is pretty bad at being scum, and should have been obvious as day by now if he was. So while he's still possibly scum, I'd put him just after Vierni and llamarble in unlikelihood to be scum.
That leaves Nacho and Thor. There might be some amount of bias contingent in my read, but Thor has consistently read genuine to me, despite having been wrong about Fate. His late day 1 posts still seem very much like someone who doesn't already know what Fate was going to flip.
Nacho, however... his switching from wondering why Vierni was voting me and questioning Voxxicus' (lack of) reasoning to voting me now seems strange, to say the least. And now that I think about it, I'm not actually sure what his possible remaining scumpairs are, and he did have Cyan as consistently obvtown yesterday. At the same time, however, he had a very strong day 1, which is why I had him as town for all of late day 1 and early day 2.
Mmmh. If Voxxicus is somehow actually town, I'll lay odds on Cyan/Nacho, then Cyan/Cyouni. Vierni is simply not a possibility, and I don't believe Thor is scum at all.
------------------
If you haven't actually lynched me by Monday, I'll take a look at this again. And if I'm the only lynch possibility at that point, I will damned well hammer myself.
As of this point, however, consider me voting both Voxxicus and Cyan - those are the only two wagons I'm actually willing to support today.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
....mmmhh. Actually, that doesn't sound right at all either. I don't believe Cyouni would dare bus his one remaining scumbuddy at this point - see Redux 2 Mirror for what I mean. No. Cyan/Cyouni makes no sense either.
I should take a look at when exactly Nacho started poking at Cyan on this day, but frankly, I haven't the energy to bother right now. But now I'm starting to doubt if Cyan can be scum with anyone if Voxxicus is somehow town.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
That entire post feels like 'a bunch of words that don't actually say anything'. I also feel like dC is forcing the 'go ahead and lynch me' card a little too much here.
I don't think phoneclaiming is a point against voxxicus.
It's not like he hadn't laid groundwork for an innocent on DYH, so here's a question for you MTGS folks:
Is the overnight-reversal on DYH and putting him in supertown land etc believable as a thing he'd fake in order to prepare a cop fakeclaim likely to get him killed by a counterclaim? (I obviously lean toward no, but my upbringing doesn't necessarily prepare me as a judge here so as Vi would say, etc)
No, I don't think it is. But to be fair, I had him as solidly town all game the last time he was scum(recently in the game that DRey Modded...U something).
But even taking that into account, this doesn't seem like something Voxx would do.
Alright it's getting near 5 am so I am not going to finish this tonight, but what I'm hoping will happen is:
reestablish Vi / Cyan obvtownness
Role-related clears on Voxx/DYH (and me)
We have 4 shots to eliminate dC, Cyouni, Nacho, and Thor (regardless whether I shoot or not) so we win. Ideally we lynch correctly today / tomorrow and don't get too deep into the lands of paranoia. Maybe the Cyan wagon is heavily scum supported in hopes of avoiding this scenario.
@Nacho: Oh, I know. Hence the (BONUS!) and "now-claimed". It's more about who he's not willing to vote (Fate/dC) than who he did.
How much straw did you manage to get ahold of with that one?
@Cyan
@Cyouni
Seriously, neither of your cases on the other make that much sense. Cyan's townplay has been aggressive throughout, Cyouni was a clear mislynch attempt by Fate unless you take that as a lulz bus. I'd love it if you guys could stop sniping each other.
@Voxx - Is your 95% because you fear powers that effect your ability creating false negatives/positives or is it a lack of confidence in what the ability is even saying to you?
I honestly don't even know what you are talking about. I voted AF because 3 people that were likely town were voting AF, and the deadline was very imminent. That is the only reason. I will never attempt to claim any credit for being involved in his wagon.
Name those people. I'll wait.
In the meantime, I'm betting you're going to name me, Vi, and Kami of Lunacy, as we were the only people pressuring AF at that point. But you called Kami of Lunacy scum both before and after that post, and she wasn't even voting AF at that point.
Seriously, neither of your cases on the other make that much sense. Cyan's townplay has been aggressive throughout, Cyouni was a clear mislynch attempt by Fate unless you take that as a lulz bus. I'd love it if you guys could stop sniping each other.
I'll agree regarding how he was towards Iso, but the rest of his play has been pretty backseat.
I'll elaborate once searching comes back up.
In the meantime, please take a look.
That post is a week into the game. I certainly didn't agree that you should be dead from a lynch, and I suspect llama wasn't aware/used to your play style of the once-a-day-content dumps.
As far as "typical results" - much better reads. This is clearly subjective in part because of how I feel about people who aren't dead yet (llama, Thor).
Two things -
Firstly, yes, I poked at her in the early game. Like less than a hundred posts in, because she was doing nothing and then went V/LA. And then when she actually started contributing I was pretty sure she was town. What's inconsistent there?
Likewise, because I had a town read on her after that, I 'harped on Cyan' for his apparently unchanging read of her - especially since, as I noted in my review, he was not, in fact, 'on her case all day long'. What's inconsistent there?
(Answer - nothing is inconsistent. You're making up points as you go along.)[/quote]
No, it's pretty straightforward. You had an issue with her play early, Cyan's read on her was pretty much all day long. Therefore, the two things were related. Not sure what there is to miss about this. We apparently disagree on Cyan being on her case "all day long", but I don't seem to recall one instance where Cyan wasn't including KoL as a lynch/vig candidate and harping on her play.
So are we playing what-ifs now? 'What if' there is a scum roleblocker. 'What if' I had some convoluted plan involving said scum roleblocker, when I could have easily exhorted him to shoot Voxxicus instead - or do you think Voxxicus and I are scum together after this whole rigmarole? Those aren't the words of someone looking for scum. Those are the words of someone looking to cast doubt.[/QUOTE]
It's certainly possible, yes. I don't see reason to elaborate at this point, but my speculation isn't entirely baseless. You are right insofar that I hadn't thought the combinations through that far yet. I spent much of day one tied up in Thor, so to say I'm evaluating things in hindsight would be fair.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Fixed:
That post is a week into the game. I certainly didn't agree that you should be dead from a lynch, and I suspect llama wasn't aware/used to your play style of the once-a-day-content dumps.
As far as "typical results" - much better reads. This is clearly subjective in part because of how I feel about people who aren't dead yet (llama, Thor).
No, it's pretty straightforward. You had an issue with her play early, Cyan's read on her was pretty much all day long. Therefore, the two things were related. Not sure what there is to miss about this. We apparently disagree on Cyan being on her case "all day long", but I don't seem to recall one instance where Cyan wasn't including KoL as a lynch/vig candidate and harping on her play.
It's certainly possible, yes. I don't see reason to elaborate at this point, but my speculation isn't entirely baseless. You are right insofar that I hadn't thought the combinations through that far yet. I spent much of day one tied up in Thor, so to say I'm evaluating things in hindsight would be fair.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Players needed to lynch: 5
desCoures - 3 - Voxxicus, Vierni, Cyan - (L-2)
Voxxicus - 2 - Nachomamma8, Llamarble - (L-3)
Cyan - 1 - Cyouni - (L-4)
DYH - 1 - Thor665 - (L-4)
Thor665 - 1 - DYH - (L-4)
Players not voting: desCoures
Anytime someone wants to pick their posting rate above "once every two days" would be appreciated.
What I read out of it, given their suspicion had nothing to do with why they're dead, is the fact that their alignment's confirmed.
No, there's a difference between snark -> sarcasm and snark/sarcasm -> nonexistent.
They're the only two confirmed opinions. That means a lot more than you're ascribing.
No, when I challenged you to quote it you realized it didn't exist and retracted it.
I think it would have been a good tack, if I didn't have reasons for you to be town that overrode that.
Mhm.
Unfortunately, I don't really find that to be a good point for you. Unvote, Vote Voxxicus
With such a soft question, that's really odd.
Your question gets nowhere no matter the answer. If he says yes, then it goes nowhere. If he says no, then it still goes nowhere - see his answer. It's a throwaway question.
I remain unsurprised.
And now that I look at how you've been addressing Voxxicus, you've never stated a read on him, yet have leaped to defend him at every opportunity. This is especially true on that question that only works if Thor's statement is taken out of context.
The Naked City Mafia is Basic-Normal level difficulty, based on the standards of both communities.
If that was aimed at me, then I very much don't appreciate that, given that I think I've put in the most effort of anyone this entire game day.
@Vierni
Huh? Ignored Fate?
I'm pretty certain I had a scum read of him since his less than inspiring exchange with Cyouni - the same one that led me to entirely reverse my scum read on Cyouni up to that point.
If you're asking why I didn't quote many of his posts, then I'd say the first reason is because my posting style tends to lean towards going through the posts since my last post, quote-marking anything I want to respond to and/or point out, then clicking 'Post Reply'. And as far as Fate's posts went, his noise-to-content ratio was remarkably high. And I'm not in the habit of quoting nonsense posts often. People already say they have problems paying attention to my posts as it is.
As for the other reason, I was focused on llamarble, and growing increasingly frustrated at the mix of people ignoring me and being stonewalled on various fronts. Not proud of it, but there it is.
@DYH
And yet, as day 1 went on, you still never said half a word about me. Nor did you do so at the beginning of day 2. And now suddenly I'm near the bottom of your T/S list? What gives?
And I know for a fact you've played enough with me to know that sometimes, just like Cyan, I'm just plain wrong. I don't even know why I got killed N1 in Ataghan, considering how ridiculously off I was that game. And in Conflux Mafia, I was right about RobRoy for the wrong reasons, but thanks to those wrong reasons was after some town player for the entirety of day 1.
...and, come to think of it, what in the world is your metric for 'better reads' anyway? Yes, I was wrong on Iso and llamarble. I was also right about KoL and Fate. And as for day 2, both of the people I was initially attacking - Voxxicus and Cyan - were only just above me on your T/S list.
I don't buy it. Your reasoning sounds very much like the sound of male cows defecating in an open field.
I had an issue with her play 'less than a week into the game', to use the exact same justification you used above re: the response you gave to llamarble. And I'm really not sure how you can have missed that she was playing entirely differently (read: much better) once she got off V/LA, and how that changed my read of her. That was very much a reason why I started 'harping on Cyan', because his opinion appeared to have not changed in the least despite this dramatic change in her play quality, and he couldn't even give me proper reasons when I asked.
Speaking of Cyan, now you're just showing how you're not actually reading. In my review of you, Voxxicus, and Cyan, I quoted the exact post where Cyan sides with Fate over Cyouni while saying that 'the only players he finds scummy are from MtGS', with his only hedge being Nacho, not KoL.
Despite having Cyan near the bottom of your T/S list, you're showing absolutely no interest in what I had to say about him, hm? Not a town mindset in the least.
'Here we see the scum indulging in his native activity - flinging clods of damp earth at an animal of a different species. Note how when approached in a challenging manner by said animal, he swiftly retreats to the safety of a nearby grass hedge, and quiets considerably.'
-------------
It's nearly ironic just how much Voxxicus' accusation of me not reading and/or not thinking apply far more to both him and DYH.
I hadn't realized I wasn't voting Voxxicus. Bar some miraculously townie response and/or claim from him in the next 36-48 hours, I will vote him, before leaving for Prerelease weekend.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
That last post was overflowing with scum undertones.
I have the golden opportunity for you to be lazy and it comes in the form of a scumwagon. If you miss out on two in a row I'm afraid that you won't be able to live it down
Your analysis seems oddly shallow, DYH.
Why does it matter if our reasoning comes with our votes? I thought the MS-MTGS playstyle differences had already been thoroughly hashed out by this point.
You never actually went in to explain that mindset difference; what makes DYH a town-tunneler as opposed to a scum-tunneler?
If you still have problems with me, there's no reason to let them simmer at the back of your mind. Address them; dance with me.
I see a distinct lack of "why these people are actually scum". Forgive me if I missed it before, but could you supply/requote that reasoning?
This stung a little bit. Why?
Llamarble, what do you think of Cyan's latest posting?
With regards to your content on Fate - It's not there. Here, I'll even quote mine where you talked about Fate in the post you mentioned where your stance on the Cyouni wagon changed.
Not a stance on Fate. Not a stance on Fate. A hint of a stance on Fate promptly brushed over with accusations leveled at other people.
Without quoting everything, Fate gets mentioned in some of your posts later as a potential lynchee, but a reason is never presented and there are always at least two people ahead of him in line for the gallows each time. You even say this-- as if you hadn't wanted Iso dead all Day.
Vote stays.
Vote: Voxx (who stands a far better chance of being scum than desCoures)
There you go Nacho.
Also, apparently I'm being scummy again, because look how eager I am to not address and discuss everything like I had been doing.
The v/la?
Posh, I'm sure that's meaningless.
Later, after being called on my "change in posting" when my v/la ends I'll suddenly and magically begin posting like I had been doing.
The above is a short explanation of why people not voting DYH are derpy.
someone needs to unvote or scum dc will hammer
ill claim in more detail later but i know dyh is town because night action
@Nacho: That's a fair assessment. I won't bore you with details, but suffice it to say I'm busy and this is way down the priority list.
Voxx needs to claim. The "I'm not claiming for the good of the team" ship has sailed.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Voxxicus - 3 - Llamarble, Cyouni, Thor665 - (L-2)
desCoures - 3 - Voxxicus, Vierni, Nachomamma8 - (L-2)
Thor665 - 1 - DYH - (L-4)
Cyouni - 1 - Cyan (L-4)
Players not voting: desCoures
---
Also, I think you mean "Basic-Normal level complexity"...
And I disagree that my vote on Cyouni is bad. Cyouni was run up yesterday, and has continued to act scummy since. This rarely happens with townies, except for really bad ones(which is not a relevant factor for this game).
He claimed. It's a soft out, but I don't really need to see more quite yet.
Llamarble, since Voxxicus is liable to get shot before you, you have an opportunity for another poison!
I will say the following:
-I am not a full cop.
-I may or may not have a relevant action to take tonight.
-I am 90-95% certain that DYH is town due to my N1 action, and that he is a bad lynch due to the fact. If I'm shot N2, it should explain what that action was.
That's realistically all that town needs, right now - anything else benefits the scum team far more. They need to decide if I'm worth wasting resources on, or if Llamarble is a better use of them.
Re-read my posts today from the new mindset that I'm town, and DYH is town.
This should explain the hard flip on DYH, as well why it felt like I was 'flailing', defending DYH. I wanted to paint it as a purely meta read, and talk my way out of suspicion, but I simply didn't have time to dedicate to this game, and I'm pretty sure scum are/were pushing against me.
There are two scum in this cluster of six:
Thor
Nacho
Vi
Cyouni
Cyan
desCoures
I want to stretch this day out until near deadline if possible, because now that I'm revealed, I want to dump everything I've been thinking about and working on into the thread prior to that, given the fact that I'm likely to be shot tonight.
I'm frankly willing to consider any of those six as scum at this point.
Vote Count analysis indicates that at least one of desCoures and Cyouni is amazingly likely scum if Llamarble is town, which is a fairly safe bet.
I'm currently leaning towards lynching one, and having Llamarble shoot the other, but more on that once I re-read, look over my notes, and dump.
But that's not happening tonight - I just got home from a 5 hour presentation, I think it went extremely well, and I'm going out with my fiancee to celebrate.
I don't anticipate remembering anything about tonight.
I'm starting to think Nacho + dC.
Voxx, me, DYH, Vi are all strong town now. Cyan is the next tier, and then Thor / Cyouni, with Nacho / dC making most sense as the scumteam. So much scum effort >_>
I want to read all Nacho's posts and dC's posts again, but it'll be a labor so that's happening tomorrow. Thor looks awkward after everyone he ever wanted to lynch flipped town and his best friend Fate flipped scum, but eh. I still think Vi has played GREAT if he's scum and the same goes for Cyan (I'm just less familiar with him).
Fate is very very good as scum (he got lynched D1 this game, but to be fair he had all manner of claims get in the way of the 3 people who would've been lynched before him actually dying). "Appeasing" a scumpartner is not out of his range. Honestly it's a little silly to be giving Nacho as my top partner for dC without really doing the reread, but I'll get through that tomorrow afternoon.
Unvote: Voxxicus
And I'm pretty sure that no option he could claim would make sense with both the game and his claimed action.
Mhm.
That's why you mentioned it...once. And didn't vote. Or make any move towards that. And immediately decided to talk about how my claim "speaks well of me", but say nothing else regarding how that correlates to my alignment.
And not to mention that once Fate started to be a wagon:
Huh. It's like you didn't have any reason for voting Fate, but that you just did so to get on a scumwagon.
And not to mention that for a case that's "not sticking", Iso had the same number of votes that Fate did at that point, which is only increased later on by Fate's vote.
And your vote was malleable enough that one vote on KoL was enough to make a case "stick". That being the same person (llamarble) who was the only person voting DYH with you when you said that. With you putting absolutely no effort towards that, despite her going from not being a strong scum read to one of the scummier people in the game. Without you mentioning a single post she made in between then.
What you did was talk about how she's scum, but make literally no effort towards trying to get her lynched until someone else voted her. For all that about "cases not sticking", you put practically no effort into trying to make any of them stick.
I wouldn't be particularly surprised if both DC and Cyouni are scum, but I feel alot stronger about the possibility of it being Cyouni.
Thor picking Voxxicus over desCoures here has all the makings of yesterday's Iso/Fate conundrum. I can't say I'm particularly surprised by his choice. After all, the scum already have to deal with llamarmble, so if the town could not lynch his partner and (BONUS!) go ahead and mislynch the now-claimed investigative role, that'd be great!
So yeah, I'd lynch either Thor or dC at this point. A lot of my feelings about Cyan are tied up in the answer to my question to him above.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Meh. I didn't have a scum read on AF, and he flipped scum. It happens. It happened yesterday. Cyouni suddenly trying to make a big deal out of this immediately after I called him scum looks really poor. And yes, his claim spoke well of him, for reasons already stated. And then he continued to act scummy. In my experience, when that happens, it usually means that the person is scum.
And Cyouni's response only reinforces this belief for me.
You voted him on the reasoning of the person you were saying was likely scum. And saying "he's suddenly making a big deal out of it" is completely avoiding the fact that I agreed with dC when he mentioned it before, which you completely ignored anyways.
And it was only due to you mentioning my claim that I went back and grabbed the surrounding posts to make a completely different point. Namely, your reaction to it compared to the posts immediately previous to that. Which you still haven't addressed.
Huh. I looked through my posts and you're actually right. I thought I'd made my position clearer than that, but apparently not.
And yes, I wanted Iso dead all day, because I was convinced of him and llamarble both being scum. Duh.
@Voxxicus
I have literally never seen you post like this before.
And I seriously hope no one is utterly blind and lets this blatant rushed claim/fearmongering go after I flip town.
Why do I say rushed claim? Well...
Claiming a cop is one thing, although it makes your behaviour to this point just plain bad. But at a Basic/Normal complexity, I can think of absolutely no other roles that would give you a '90-95%' certainty that DYH is town. Roleblocker tells you nothing certain. Track tells you he did nothing, big whoop. And one-shot cop or odd-day cop are ridiculously easy false claims to make.
And then you follow with this...
That's literally everyone in this game other than you, DYH, and llamarble. And you're still pushing to have me lynched based on... wagon analysis of essentially a single wagon. This when, after having read through the spectator chat of Amistarian 3, you were presented with an example of an 8-man wagon in that game on town with no scum on it.
You say your 'wagon analysis' makes it likely one of me or Cyouni is scum. Yet from the very beginning of this day, you've wanted me dead... or, should I say, the very beginning of this day following my vote on you. You keep mentioning Cyouni in passing as a possible llamarble target but your sights have been set on me since the beginning, and given that I see absolutely no possible reason for this from your posts - Vierni is the only person today who has brought any kind of valid points against me - the only conclusion I can come to is that you want me dead because I was voting you.
@Cyan
...the 'many times you pointed out where KoL was scum'? The 'many times' that you couldn't even reiterate a single one of to me here?
You alternated between vague swipes at KoL, interspersed with bits where you appeared to have 'no real scum read' or 'only MtGS scum reads'. Your 'reasoning' against her was always a one-liner at best, mere assertions at worst, and as pointed out above, you weren't able to quantify a single one when asked about it.
Trying to retcon your history isn't exactly the lesson you should be taking from WotC, Cyan.
------------------------------
....you know what? This isn't worth the headache. Lynch me, so some of you can realize how wrong you've been, and so Voxxicus can be hoist by his own petard.
It's still overwhelmingly likely to me that Voxxicus is false-claiming scum based on behaviour. Beyond that, it's hard to say whether he'd be faking an investigation on a scumbuddy or on someone he knows to be town. Between Cyan and DYH, DYH definitely has the more questionable behaviour today in any case - especially since he was the mod of Amistarian 3, and obviously knows about the 8-man town wagon on town that I mentioned above. However, that would be a ridiculous risk for him to take, unless DYH was a godfather, in which case it would be suicide for him to claim an investigation.
...mm. Actually, now that I work that out, it's exceedingly unlikely that DYH would be scum in this case, if and unless Voxxicus intends to backtrack and claim something other than some brand of cop. DYH should be off the list of possibilities for now, then, pending Voxxicus. So perhaps Voxxicus and Cyan. Cyan's attempts to retcon his behaviour re: KoL yesterday are extremely bad in any case.
In the off-chance that Voxxicus is just playing hideously bad and is seriously pushing a theory lynch by the same stance he took in the Amistarian 3 spectator thread, in which case we will have words in the post-game once I flip town and, as I'm fairly certain, Cyouni will flip town (and if he is scum and people let him get away with this bullcrap, then I'll have words with the rest of the town) - then that means DYH is also town, barring godfather shenanigans. At which point my only strong scumread remaining is Cyan, and I can't see both him and DYH being scum. In which case I'm obviously wrong about one of the other players.
Of the remaining players, llamarble should be resolved automatically one way or the other. I still don't believe Vierni can be anything but town. I've already outlined the reasons why with regard to yesterday, and additionally she's the only person who actually raised any valid points at all against me today.
Cyouni I've also quantified why I think he's town, re:Fate. Granted, his barning of me today is a little strange... but, at the risk of being impolitic, let me make something clear. I think Cyouni is pretty bad at being scum, and should have been obvious as day by now if he was. So while he's still possibly scum, I'd put him just after Vierni and llamarble in unlikelihood to be scum.
That leaves Nacho and Thor. There might be some amount of bias contingent in my read, but Thor has consistently read genuine to me, despite having been wrong about Fate. His late day 1 posts still seem very much like someone who doesn't already know what Fate was going to flip.
Nacho, however... his switching from wondering why Vierni was voting me and questioning Voxxicus' (lack of) reasoning to voting me now seems strange, to say the least. And now that I think about it, I'm not actually sure what his possible remaining scumpairs are, and he did have Cyan as consistently obvtown yesterday. At the same time, however, he had a very strong day 1, which is why I had him as town for all of late day 1 and early day 2.
Mmmh. If Voxxicus is somehow actually town, I'll lay odds on Cyan/Nacho, then Cyan/Cyouni. Vierni is simply not a possibility, and I don't believe Thor is scum at all.
------------------
If you haven't actually lynched me by Monday, I'll take a look at this again. And if I'm the only lynch possibility at that point, I will damned well hammer myself.
As of this point, however, consider me voting both Voxxicus and Cyan - those are the only two wagons I'm actually willing to support today.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
....mmmhh. Actually, that doesn't sound right at all either. I don't believe Cyouni would dare bus his one remaining scumbuddy at this point - see Redux 2 Mirror for what I mean. No. Cyan/Cyouni makes no sense either.
I should take a look at when exactly Nacho started poking at Cyan on this day, but frankly, I haven't the energy to bother right now. But now I'm starting to doubt if Cyan can be scum with anyone if Voxxicus is somehow town.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
I still would rather lynch Cyouni though.
Unvote: desCoures
It's not like he hadn't laid groundwork for an innocent on DYH, so here's a question for you MTGS folks:
Is the overnight-reversal on DYH and putting him in supertown land etc believable as a thing he'd fake in order to prepare a cop fakeclaim likely to get him killed by a counterclaim? (I obviously lean toward no, but my upbringing doesn't necessarily prepare me as a judge here so as Vi would say, etc)
But even taking that into account, this doesn't seem like something Voxx would do.
I don't see my opinion on Vi as likely to change. Who knows what'll happen with Nacho / the rest wheee
This is a pretty wtfawful vote.
reestablish Vi / Cyan obvtownness
Role-related clears on Voxx/DYH (and me)
We have 4 shots to eliminate dC, Cyouni, Nacho, and Thor (regardless whether I shoot or not) so we win. Ideally we lynch correctly today / tomorrow and don't get too deep into the lands of paranoia. Maybe the Cyan wagon is heavily scum supported in hopes of avoiding this scenario.
How much straw did you manage to get ahold of with that one?
@Cyan
@Cyouni
Seriously, neither of your cases on the other make that much sense. Cyan's townplay has been aggressive throughout, Cyouni was a clear mislynch attempt by Fate unless you take that as a lulz bus. I'd love it if you guys could stop sniping each other.
@Voxx - Is your 95% because you fear powers that effect your ability creating false negatives/positives or is it a lack of confidence in what the ability is even saying to you?
Why SHOULDN'T we take it as exactly that?
Cyouni is just scummy, period. Look at the vote that llamarble just quoted. How does that post come from a town mindset?
In the meantime, I'm betting you're going to name me, Vi, and Kami of Lunacy, as we were the only people pressuring AF at that point. But you called Kami of Lunacy scum both before and after that post, and she wasn't even voting AF at that point.
In other words, bull.
You find withholding a claim and continually repeating "because I'm town" to be town behaviour?
I'll agree regarding how he was towards Iso, but the rest of his play has been pretty backseat.
I'll elaborate once searching comes back up.
In the meantime, please take a look.
Mostly trying to decide if Cyan's passiveness this game is scum trying to coast, or town being lazy and/or apathetic.