MTG Salvation

Would a solution be to change this to a rules thread and just have a rules thread for actual rules? I assume there's no rule against two rules threads, right?

I'll give more details once I fully understand what the issue is with our current setup.

Okay, good news! We can move our Rules into an Announcement, which will still preserve our articles, and we can keep the Council thread as-is without creating an additional helpdesk - we just have to note that the Council thread also functions as a helpdesk.

Cythare is handling the transfer of the Rules thread; if you have any questions about it, please direct them to him.

I will be touching up the Council OP and title accordingly. If you have any questions about that, please direct them to me.

I almost feel like this fell into the category of "who actually cares". Sorry if the higher ups were making things weird just so shake things up Iso old boy.

Thanks for the sympathy. The senior staff just wanted everything to be uniform across the site, and I wanted to make sure that whatever decision was made did not disrupt our long-standing structure.

I've touched up the Council OP as well as notated the additional thread purpose into the title, and I'll probably touch up the Rules post after a brief discussion with Proph on the matter.

Edit: Everything is all sparkly clean. I've updated the rules to reflect the more modern MTGS rules, as well as dropped mention of archaic ones that are no longer in effect (such as the double-posting rule).

As I said before, if you have any questions, feel free to run them by me.

I was about to just thumbsup and move on with life, but then I noticed a few unforeseen implications of that move:

1. The Secretary signup/mentoring/Q&A system just got blown up.

At minimum, we need to fix this blurb: "Our friendly neighborhood Mafia Secretaries would be happy to answer any questions you have and point you in the right direction, and will be in touch with you shortly." Which doesn't inform you who the secretaries are, and is useless since people aren't able to post there.

2. Did the powers that be realize that the "rules" thread wasn't MTGS subforum rules so much as "how the game actually plays"? The entirety of the MTGS rules portion was like, one paragraph out of nine. We can easily shove that para somewhere (anywhere) else if we want.

3. It's a bit harder to see the thread as is, and we want to make sure new players can find that info. Pretty imperative, really.

Can we shuffle things around a bit so our new player info/welcoming mat is still front and center?

Could there be an Announcement that just persists and points people in the direction of the articles and other welcomy things?

1. That blurb was always devoid of names. It can be updated as necessary. I was under the impression that mentors were requested in sign-up threads, as has been the case since I started Mafia here. Additionally, nobody ever actually posted there, and even from my beginnings, I was under the impression that one should not do so. We always have the Hosting thread, the Council thread, and the Theory thread for newbies to ask what's up.

2. Yes, that was something that was mentioned specifically in the discussion regarding how Mafia should handle the restructuring and part of why I strongly objected to the transition as it pertained to our area. They felt that an announcement would make this more visible (I disagree, but that's because I'm used to ignoring announcements at the top of our forums being that they usually don't apply to me). Old browsing habits die hard, I guess?

3. See: 2.

What exactly are you suggesting we shuffle around?

Quote from Iso »

1. That blurb was always devoid of names. It can be updated as necessary. I was under the impression that mentors were requested in sign-up threads, as has been the case since I started Mafia here. Additionally, nobody ever actually posted there, and even from my beginnings, I was under the impression that one should not do so. We always have the Hosting thread, the Council thread, and the Theory thread for newbies to ask what's up.

2. Yes, that was something that was mentioned specifically in the discussion regarding how Mafia should handle the restructuring and part of why I strongly objected to the transition as it pertained to our area. They felt that an announcement would make this more visible (I disagree, but that's because I'm used to ignoring announcements at the top of our forums being that they usually don't apply to me). Old browsing habits die hard, I guess?

3. See: 2.

What exactly are you suggesting we shuffle around?

My thought was, leave the single paragraph on MTGS rules as the "announcement" and either merge the content from that thread into something that already exists, or just bring back our old info thread sans the MTGS rules.

Original thread was sans names bc people could post in that thread, and the Secretaries would contact them instead of the other way around. If we wind up having to keep their format, we will have to add names in, is what I was trying to bring across.

I can add the names; it's a lot simpler that way, IMO.

Hmm. The new announcement font size and alert graphic are a lot more noticeable than I recall them being in times past, so I think we'll probably be ok relying on the newbies to look up far enough to see it, or failing that, to see one of our active signup threads.

Hi, guys! I have an announcement to make.

As my participation in Tare's active game comes to a closing, I wanted to advise you all that I am stepping down as an MTGS Moderator.

I love this community and I love helping you guys in every way I can, but I need a major break from Mafia; I've been burnt out since before the game over on 2+2 and I've barely been chugging along since. Most of the games I've joined have been to help them fill, but there's a lot that I'd like to be dedicating my extra time to. I want to start work on my YouTube channel, I want to start making music again, I want to grow hot peppers on my windowsill, and I want to spend more time on Magic.

I'm still going to host and review games, and I'm definitely staying on as a Council member. But I might not be checking MTGS every day like I used to, and I'm trying to avoid signing up for any games for a while. In the meantime, Cythare and Proph will take good care of you guys.

It's been a pleasure.

Good luck with everything bro.

I know I haven't been here nearly as long as everyone else, but this fills me with a great deal of sadness.

Quote from Iso »

Hi, guys! I have an announcement to make.

As my participation in Tare's active game comes to a closing, I wanted to advise you all that I am stepping down as an MTGS Moderator.

I love this community and I love helping you guys in every way I can, but I need a major break from Mafia; I've been burnt out since before the game over on 2+2 and I've barely been chugging along since. Most of the games I've joined have been to help them fill, but there's a lot that I'd like to be dedicating my extra time to. I want to start work on my YouTube channel, I want to start making music again, I want to grow hot peppers on my windowsill, and I want to spend more time on Magic.

I'm still going to host and review games, and I'm definitely staying on as a Council member. But I might not be checking MTGS every day like I used to, and I'm trying to avoid signing up for any games for a while. In the meantime, Cythare and Proph will take good care of you guys.

It's been a pleasure.

I'm calling a special meeting of the council to veto Iso's life choices.

Hey, if you wanna start paying me, I'll happily stay on.

Glad I got to play with you in your last few games, Iso: you are the reasons I started playing more consistently on this site, and I'm very grateful for that. You're a great player and a great person; hope we cross paths again.

Thanks, Nacho. I'll still be here. Go sign up for my Mini!

I noticed the league sticky has been unstickied (RIP). That probably means we can also get rid of the "Common Ground" subforum as well.

True.

I'll contact Feyd about it sometime in the upcoming week.

Based on some recent events in games as well as some other discussions I've had, I'm considering proposing the following change to the Mafia Subforum Rules, and I'd like the community's thoughts on it:

• The use of the Ignore function on another player in a game with you is disallowed. If you are considering joining a game and a player on your Ignore list has already joined, please take them off of your Ignore list prior to the start of the game.

Here are my thoughts - the use of the Ignore function is intended to be a last-resort function for when a user can't constructively interact with another user on the forums. Given that we're all here to enjoy a forum game, I'd like to think that we're in a different position that other forums are - a large part of Mafia is interaction and drawing conclusions based on the interaction of others. Ignoring another user completely undermines this, since you see no posts from them, and it can alter a game drastically due to a dearth of interaction that can just be explained away. If the ignoree posts something that is constructive, it requires another user to go out of his or her way to reiterate it for the ignorer to see, which puts a burden on the rest of the playerbase.

Thoughts?

I honestly thought that was a rule back when I was a moderator. Pretty much for every reason you have in your "thoughts" section.

I too thought this was a rule.

I was surprised when I saw some of the newer players using this so liberally.

I feel like the ignore list tends to perpetuate rather than alleviate flaming problems in-game, so I don't oppose ridding ourselves of that particular option.

Half the time, it seems like it's used more as an obnoxious insult to the player being ignored than as a legitimate attempt to reduce conflict.

I don't want to rush this along and not give other users the opportunity to weigh in, but I also don't want to leave this in limbo. There doesn't appear to be any opinions in here that would require further discussion at this time, so I'm going to leave discussion on this open until 5pm EST on Friday, March 4. If extended discussion does occur prior to this, then I'm fine with that - I just don't want too much time to pass if no one is interested in debating this proposed change.

I have a complaint about Proph and D_V that I would like to bring before the council. Please advise the best way to go about that. Whether that be to present my information here or elsewhere. Thank you.

Quote from TappingStones »

I have a complaint about Proph and D_V that I would like to bring before the council. Please advise the best way to go about that. Whether that be to present my information here or elsewhere. Thank you.

I'll leave the venue to your discretion. Sometimes, players prefer to get everything out in the open air, at other times, they prefer to keep things more private. Whatever you think is necessary to reach a resolution.

I don't know whether or not there have been some reported posts flying behind the scenes in Mind Screw, but I was a bit surprised that there hasn't been at least mod reminder text given some of the things that were said. Maybe it was in private? I really haven't looked very hard to parse who said what; that just would have been my first expectation on how things would be dealt with.

Out of respect for Taredas as the game moderator, I had wanted to give him the first opportunity to ask people to cool it off rather than jump into the thread and request it.

I can provide additional details on the rest of it here or in private, depending on TappingStones's preference.

As Im just looking for an equitable solution as opposed to causing anymore hard feelings perhaps it is best for me to comment in private. Thanks gentlemen fir the quick responses.

I'm fine with an open-air discussion on it without mentioning anything that has an impact on the game.

Quote from Cythare »

I don't want to rush this along and not give other users the opportunity to weigh in, but I also don't want to leave this in limbo. There doesn't appear to be any opinions in here that would require further discussion at this time, so I'm going to leave discussion on this open until 5pm EST on Friday, March 4. If extended discussion does occur prior to this, then I'm fine with that - I just don't want too much time to pass if no one is interested in debating this proposed change.

I'm happy for usage of the ignore list to be disallowed for players playing in games together. If a player dislikes another so much they put them on ignore, then they probably shouldn't be thinking about joining a game with them in the first place.

Quote from TappingStones »

I have a complaint about Proph and D_V that I would like to bring before the council. Please advise the best way to go about that. Whether that be to present my information here or elsewhere. Thank you.

Would absolutely recommend sending PMs to council members, excluding those currently in the game if necessary. I'd only really recommend public discussion if a player's actions relate to wider discussion (e.g. around ethics or whatever).

Who specifically should I send to?

Why not everyone on the Council?

I'm going to ask that if the council is dealing with this and not moderators that this be in the open.

Specifically, because one of the players had been so vocal about it here and in the mafia game as well.

Quote from D_V »

I'm going to ask that if the council is dealing with this and not moderators that this be in the open.

Specifically, because one of the players had been so vocal about it here and in the mafia game as well.

You dont get to decide how I deal with the complaint. Im going to ask you very politely to back off so I can resolve this.

TS, this is only tangentially related, but are you UA lives, by chance?

Quote from TappingStones »

Quote from D_V »

I'm going to ask that if the council is dealing with this and not moderators that this be in the open.

Specifically, because one of the players had been so vocal about it here and in the mafia game as well.

You dont get to decide how I deal with the complaint. Im going to ask you very politely to back off so I can resolve this.

You made it public in this and another thread.

At this point, I feel that its in the public view and to all of a sudden take it behind closed doors seems questionable.

Besides this isn't a request to you, this is to the council.

Quote from D_V »

Quote from TappingStones »

Quote from D_V »

I'm going to ask that if the council is dealing with this and not moderators that this be in the open.

Specifically, because one of the players had been so vocal about it here and in the mafia game as well.

You dont get to decide how I deal with the complaint. Im going to ask you very politely to back off so I can resolve this.

You made it public in this and another thread.

At this point, I feel that its in the public view and to all of a sudden take it behind closed doors seems questionable.

Besides this isn't a request to you, this is to the council.

The council has already stated that I am free to pursue my complaint by PM. This is definitely a form of harassment for you to continue on this course of action. I have now asked you multiple times to allow me to present my complaint against you to those in the council, if they choose to include you then that will be their decision. Cease and desist from replying to this subject. I will be replying in private. You don't get to dictate the terms of how someone makes a complaint about you. I will go to site moderation for harassment against you if you don't desist from this course of action.

Also, will you be PMing us any time soon?

I am more than free to ask that this be made public.

By making a public call out you have made it in the public view. There were many ways for you to make this private if you wanted to but you choose to make this public.

Quote from Iso »

Also, will you be PMing us any time soon?

Yeah, when I'm free. Weekends are busy.

After disabling the ignore feature on this forum and reviewing some posts I've discovered that there are things I would also like to report. Are the council members listed in the OP up to date and correct?

Quote from imabusinessman »

After disabling the ignore feature on this forum and reviewing some posts I've discovered that there are things I would also like to report. Are the council members listed in the OP up to date and correct?

Yes. Do note that if the things you wish to report fall under general site rules (e.g. flaming), it should be reported to the site moderators via the "report" button.

Quote from D_V »

I am more than free to ask that this be made public.

By making a public call out you have made it in the public view. There were many ways for you to make this private if you wanted to but you choose to make this public.

Let me know if the mods need my feelings on it. I felt you were being treated very innapropriately as well.

Quote from D_V »

I am more than free to ask that this be made public.

By making a public call out you have made it in the public view. There were many ways for you to make this private if you wanted to but you choose to make this public.

DV, there is no reciprocal right for you to force anyone to make a complaint public that they wish to make in private.

Now, at the point that the council was considering taking any action involving you, we would reach out to you ourselves and ask for your input on the process prior to making any decision. That's only fair. However, we feel this is a situation that is best handled by the site's moderation, and have said as much. This would only fall under council jurisdiction if it represented a systemic or repeated issue.

I'd recommend that all concerned take some deep breaths and consider whether or not they're handling this situation well.

Hey Iso... How are the peppers growing?

Real reason to pop in is that I thought of Rhand when I saw the news today. Glad to see you're well. Hope everyone else is too!

Thanks, don't have soil or pots for them yet I do start my new job on Monday, though, so they'll come along eventually.

When are you coming back to play more Mafia?

Quote from DCIII »

Hey Iso... How are the peppers growing?

Real reason to pop in is that I thought of Rhand when I saw the news today. Glad to see you're well. Hope everyone else is too!

I am okay and so is my family and friends

Quote from Iso »

Thanks, don't have soil or pots for them yet I do start my new job on Monday, though, so they'll come along eventually.

When are you coming back to play more Mafia?

Awesome on the job. Gratz!

Can't see it happening... I am getting back into Magic again though...

Quote from Rhand »

I am okay and so is my family and friends

So glad to hear it!