Proph, why haven't you told us what mutation causes us to lose a vote?
I think we'd all like to know what Proph's mutation does. But something about this line doesn't add up.
Why are you assuming that multiple people have the same mutation? That seems like one of two things:
A: The scum (who have shared their roles with each other), have some overlap in their mutations.
B: Fearmongering based on the idea of losing one's vote due to a mutation.
Neither of these are attractive reasons to be pushing the issue; nor is genuine curiosity a sufficient reason to vote someone. There are enough other reasons to vote Proph as is. Voting him for this looks bad IMO.
I hate to do this, but I don't foresee being able to post for a while as this sickness is not improving. I slept 15 hours last night and I can't stop vomiting, so I have to ask for a replacement.
Again, I am truly sorry to put Iso and everyone else in this position, but my health has to come first.
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Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
I hate to do this, but I don't foresee being able to post for a while as this sickness is not improving. I slept 15 hours last night and I can't stop vomiting, so I have to ask for a replacement.
Again, I am truly sorry to put Iso and everyone else in this position, but my health has to come first.
Get well soon!
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Think the MtgStaff is just swell? Join today! You too can be involved in an 8 year grudge and delete nearly 9000 of kpaca's posts!
I hate to do this, but I don't foresee being able to post for a while as this sickness is not improving. I slept 15 hours last night and I can't stop vomiting, so I have to ask for a replacement.
Again, I am truly sorry to put Iso and everyone else in this position, but my health has to come first.
I hate to do this, but I don't foresee being able to post for a while as this sickness is not improving. I slept 15 hours last night and I can't stop vomiting, so I have to ask for a replacement.
Again, I am truly sorry to put Iso and everyone else in this position, but my health has to come first.
What could possibly be the motivation for scum to pretend to misread a claim in an attempt to generate a mislynch when literally anyone could double-check the facts and invalidate the case?
If you want to attack me for being linked to SS, feel free. Even though it's still for a terrible reason, at least there is something approximating logic behind it (that being paranoia).
That said, I'm not sure how I feel about Prophylaxis piping up on my behalf.
No one is saying that you pretended to mis-read something..what kind of sense would that make? We're saying that you made a conclusion based off of inside scum information. I'm curious what you are asserting that you 'misread' here.
The bolded part gives me pause. If you were scum, I would expect you to just take whatever support you could, especially with DYH, Seppel, Kpaca, and myself all voting you. Maybe it's WIFOM, but that doesn't feel like something that occurs to a person to create WIFOM with. Unvote
I interpret Proph's question the opposite way, incidentally. Especially when you factori n that explaining that is how AI got into hot water in the first place, it feels like Proph is just trying to get onto the wagon more subtly. He continues to get scummier, in my eyes, as the day progresses.Vote Proph
I assumed, like several others did apparently, that W_G claimed to get his results in the form of a player name if that player has a mutation, while it now appears that he claimed to get results in the form of a mutation name.
I disagree; there is definitely a resistant tone to Prophy's question. While it's possible that he was hoping that someone could "talk him onto the wagon," that seems like a rather roundabout way to go about it considering other players were already jumping on without giving more justification than "says every caught scum ever" and "lol Axelrod."
What could possibly be the motivation for scum to pretend to misread a claim in an attempt to generate a mislynch when literally anyone could double-check the facts and invalidate the case?
If you want to attack me for being linked to SS, feel free. Even though it's still for a terrible reason, at least there is something approximating logic behind it (that being paranoia).
That said, I'm not sure how I feel about Prophylaxis piping up on my behalf.
Regardless, don't you think it's mildly amusing that - misinterpreted or not - AsianI is pushing to have WG killed when he can detect non-human kills. Why, you ask? Because AsianI has Las Plagas and would very likely have the abilities and tendencies of [insert non-human entity here]. I'm going to guess the scum would prefer to be powered up and killing without fear of being caught [if WG is dead].
Can someone please explain to me why " as well as what non-human entities targeted them, if any" + "identifying D as the killer" = scum?
This Asian wagon seems completely crazy to me.
@Prophylaxis: That's not the case - that's why AI was misunderstanding the role. Which he proceeded to make a case out of. Like I said above, AI is scum because he keeps attacking a townie, he's tied to SS, and his posts are awful.
Lastly, AsianI defending SS smelled all kinds of wrong from the get-go, but if he knows that SS isn't on the scum team - even if he is a cult leader, the natural assumption there for everyone else is A) would revert to old role, and B) can't be scum - it gives AsianI townie cred. And of course while SS is alive, AsianI is powered up. This has a scum AI gambit written all over it.
I have no doubt Iso would set this up, either, on the off-chance SS is telling the truth about his role. Guarantees the scum have a mole in the "super town" from day 1.
While that is a possibility, it's hardly a convincing point - it's just another possibility. At this point I can't credit this as anything more than speculation.
As someone who's played with AI as scum and modded a game where he was, this sort of play is right in his wheelhouse. The Iso bit is me gaming the mod, sure, but I'm comfortable with my first read.
Why would he support him at all if not for his own gain? As town, is he going to stick his neck out on the line for a guy he doesn't know his alignment for sure? Doubtful. As scum, knowing SS isn't scum, would he? Absolutely.
The information I was given by SS (which is now public) in our QT, when paired with my role PM indicating that being infected by Las Plagas gives me an ability, made it just about impossible for him to be mafia. As I bread-crumbed in my very first post.
Also, apparently I am still getting help from the most unlikely places:
It makes me want to draw your attention that this reminded me what AI has posted some time ago about he don't wanting us to lynch SS because he liked his las plagas skill.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I hate to do this, but I don't foresee being able to post for a while as this sickness is not improving. I slept 15 hours last night and I can't stop vomiting, so I have to ask for a replacement.
Again, I am truly sorry to put Iso and everyone else in this position, but my health has to come first.
Sorry for you having to leave.
@Iso Mod: Does that mean KosaKosa replaces AlphaI?
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Erm. Hi guys. Thanks for the warmth reception earlier today. I love you all. I love everybody. I don't love Seppel that much right now, though. He's being to sinister to be cuddled.
Although I've been skimming through the game, I wanna ask @Seppel (AND ONLY SEPPEL): would you mind resuming, in your perception, the major events of the game so far? Pretty please?
Erm. Hi guys. Thanks for the warmth reception earlier today. I love you all. I love everybody. I don't love Seppel that much right now, though. He's being to sinister to be cuddled.
Although I've been skimming through the game, I wanna ask @Seppel (AND ONLY SEPPEL): would you mind resuming, in your perception, the major events of the game so far? Pretty please?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Erm. Hi guys. Thanks for the warmth reception earlier today. I love you all. I love everybody. I don't love Seppel that much right now, though. He's being to sinister to be cuddled.
Although I've been skimming through the game, I wanna ask @Seppel (AND ONLY SEPPEL): would you mind resuming, in your perception, the major events of the game so far? Pretty please?
So someone having the right idea, but failing in execution, doesn't mean they are scum. Seppel's approach is through a pro-town in my view.
@dC:
I was not actively trying to discredit Cantripmancer's entire body of work this game (which feels fairly town), but he was the first to suggest a cult and that should have some weight if a cult flips. I still have another ~400+ posts to go through to find the cults, but from the initial burst, cantrip is up there in the biggest proponents in creating the cult myth.
Also, it's more likely though that scum is continuing the cult myth and making it last longer, so I expect that whoever pushes it more in the next half is more likely to be actually scum.
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
What does this say about kpaca, whose called me SK and SS the cult leader?
I don't see my actions as anywhere as trying to hunt neutrals than kpaca has. And I expect a few others have been more afraid of neutrals than I have. Until I see evidence otherwise, it's just a mafia game.
This is possibly the worst post you've made all game. You basically said, "Yeah I'm guilty of that, but some other guys are more guilty of it!", except you tried to make it look less obvious. Thumbs down.
I agree. My Shark-read has dropped to neutral-leaning scum.
You're welcome.
-Though, if you are taking that as a compliment, then you must be significantly less experienced than me. So, I'd guess around 10-15 completed games?
Unless you are iso. Are you iso? -That'd be hilarious and amazing.
I still don't think it's a scum tell though. Rather, it just makes him a gimmick/bad actor.
These, on the other hand, are pretty contradictory, you see.
First you say that me, on the case, am a "decent case", but shortly after you say that I'm just a bad actor (complimenting was better ): ) and that you don't think that it is a scum tell.
Please clarify that to me.
The case Meg made had good points about your stances and voting patterns.
The point Mao was making, however, I don't think indicates alignment at all.
So, I'm still leaning scum on you, but it's not at all because you are pretending to be new (which means nothing).
Hypothetically, if someone had the means to shut off all abilities, both scum and town, would you consider it scummy for someone to use that power? -If so, why?
Except it was never going to be 'all abilities'.
I never said it was -that is what the word "hypothetically" means.
I haven't seen any of the telltale signs of scum-seppel yet.
And what in blazes are those supposed to be? You've been excusing Seppel continuously with absolutely nothing but meta!
Well, yeah. Seppel is what I consider to be a non-model townie. Meaning, when he is town, he routinely sets off my standard scumdar (which is obviously not ideal for correct reads). So, he is one of the players who I look for much more personalized tells when analyzing. -And no, I'm not going into what those are at the moment, though I will point it out if I see one. Anyway, if you are sure he is scum, there are 16 other players for you to convince -I just won't be one of them unless I see something that makes me think he is scum.
But, there were some decent points mixed in, especially towards the end, that I thought were worth keeping in mind.
....which points?
I really don't feel like going back to look it up, but off the top of my head, I believe he made a point about Seppel's Asian-vote looking potentially scum motivated and his "good-guy" claim seeming out a bit of place in that post, both of which I agreed with (though, if either/both of those points were actually made in different posts, then please yell at me to go back and actually look it up).
I don't think that's worth a vote, but I'll let Alpha field that when he gets back.
Well, that's never happening, but seppel already fielded it anyway (and that explanation made sense) so :shrug:. However, while I agree that it wasn't lynch-worthy, by any means, why wouldn't it be worth a single D1 vote to get a response from him on it?
As I told Wheat, there's nothing in those two posts that doesn't mesh at all.
IDK, a '1' is pretty low on that scale if Shark has an overall accepting opinion of WG's claim. -Shark even agreed that his read was inconsistent and modified it after being questioned on it.
If anything, it's questionable to me why this hurts your town read on Shark but not Shark's absolutely bogus opinions on Seppel and his attempt to paint Cantrip as being a 'main proponent of the cult leader theory'.
Overall, I've thought his posts have had a town tone to them, so anything that I could see potentially coming from a town-shark wasn't going to change my read.
However, now that I've seen some things that are making me suspicious, I'll go back and reread for these issues to reevaluate.
Erm. Hi guys. Thanks for the warmth reception earlier today. I love you all. I love everybody. I don't love Seppel that much right now, though. He's being to sinister to be cuddled.
Although I've been skimming through the game, I wanna ask @Seppel (AND ONLY SEPPEL): would you mind resuming, in your perception, the major events of the game so far? Pretty please?
Man, this post is so wildly different to anything KK ever posted in his latest game as town that I'm having trouble not voting him on reflex alone.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
Erm. Hi guys. Thanks for the warmth reception earlier today. I love you all. I love everybody. I don't love Seppel that much right now, though. He's being to sinister to be cuddled.
Although I've been skimming through the game, I wanna ask @Seppel (AND ONLY SEPPEL): would you mind resuming, in your perception, the major events of the game so far? Pretty please?
RVS
SharkFinnigan asks a bad question about infections
Kpaca wants a Hospital Slumber Party (HSP)
Silver breadcrumbs using a whole loaf of bread about his "cult but not really a cult honestly" role
AsianInvasion steps in and says that he's a mason with Silver, unconfirmed alignment
Wheat gets pushed to claim and claims forensic scientist
Proph starts to post once he gets votes
desCoures starts a Seppel wagon
DYH vouches that Cyan is town
Seppel gets suspicious but upon review, desCoures and DYH turn out to be town
Proph disappears so we vote him again
KCC is being super weird
Kosakosa replaces in
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
How does Prophylaxis not have more votes? Every time he shows up, he says something scummy, draws attention, and then vanishes for awhile. That is textbook scum behavior.
Btw guys, as it seems relevant in some way now, kosa is my bf.
So I do actually know someone better now lol
(so we won´t have future misunderstandings)
@Megiddo: I see. Regardless, his behavior regarding his lack of vote was just so bad. Especially the interaction with Cantripmancer. That doesn't sit well, and he has never bothered to try to explain it. I presume that this is because he can't explain it, and is just hoping people will forget about it.
@Magento: To clarify..A)you are female and B)you and your boyfriend are both in this game?
@dC: I didn't really think of bringing it up until now. However, I do think you're town, so please forgive me for not replying to 90% of your post. You also deconstructed my previous post piece by piece, even though it should have been obvious by the end that I didn't believe what I said at the beginning -- for example, you defended yourself with Ataghan, yet I defended you with Ataghan further down on the same post!
By now you should know that my posts are heavy in stream-of-consciousness.
Point on the Ataghan thing, although it's still strange why you chose me talking to Iso - who I never actually pursued in that game thanks to dying night 1 - over me and ced, who I was actively pursuing. Also fair enough on not having brought it up until now, although that still leaves the question of why you kept pushing the hospital plan after Iso's clarification on the Otherworld, without mentioning the caveat of leaving the hospital to be 'free' of the Otherworld.
However, it's precisely that 'not responding to 90% of my post' thing that reinforces my scum read of you, because that's a perfect to brush aside points inconvenient to you. For example - how your counterargument to Maokun was basically pushing the burden of proof onto him to prove something that no one except you can possibly prove.
@the Kpaca part of the Hospital plan - Kpaca never argued strongly or effectively for it. He never provided reasons. He may have tried to bully people into it, but I actually see Seppel as the primary driving force behind that plan. I suspect that Kpaca started it as a means to get reactions and to scumhunt, and then Seppel saw it as a town-seeming way to effectively cripple the town, so he took up the mantle of convincing players to join on.
....really. Even after the bit where he suggested lynching anyone who didn't follow the plan?[/QUOTE]
While that didn't sit well with me at first, I pretty quickly figured out that he wasn't being serious. At least, I don't think he was being serious.[/quote]
Everything that I've ever seen from Kpaca suggests that he's brilliant, erratic, a massive dick, and a belligerent troll, all at the same time. Just look at his exchanges with Magneto Magenta, up on top of this very page. He asks a fine question, trolls a little, and we move on with our lives.
I see his originating the hospital plan in the same light. I can see the progression of
"hey, let's gauge some reactions"
"hey, let's poke people who have given reactions with sticks"
"hey, let's troll a little and see if we can get a rise out of anyone"
"okay, got what I wanted"
as making perfect sense coming from Kpaca. I don't see malice on his side of the hospital plan. Just Seppel's.
Which, speaking of which, I'm still onboard on the Seppel train, and I also find it amazing that your points against him have just been ignored by the masses. I suspect one or more of his scumbuddies have been helping to deflect attention.
But I mean, really, did you think that lynching Seppel would be easy?
Apparently I overestimated the attention span and underestimated the gullibility of the players in this game. -_-;;;
Then, lynch me too, because I assumed (and am still assuming), that WG's ability gives him player names and not monster names.
Makes zero sense for that to be the case. I'll have more to say on that once WG comes back and confirms one way or another.
I'm not getting this. Why would this 'make zero sense'?
Because why get the additional information? I mean, what's the point of knowing about infections if he gets: "desCoures targeted DYH"? It's far more likely he gets "Zombie targeted DYH" and that we're going to have to work together to glean useful information from it. I have my own reasons for believing this, as well, but don't see the need to elaborate just yet.
...because the player would still need to have been mutated in some way for him to get that result? It doesn't exactly take an Olympic standing long jump leap of logic to get to that, either.
While that is a possibility, it's hardly a convincing point - it's just another possibility. At this point I can't credit this as anything more than speculation.
As someone who's played with AI as scum and modded a game where he was, this sort of play is right in his wheelhouse. The Iso bit is me gaming the mod, sure, but I'm comfortable with my first read.
Why would he support him at all if not for his own gain? As town, is he going to stick his neck out on the line for a guy he doesn't know his alignment for sure? Doubtful. As scum, knowing SS isn't scum, would he? Absolutely.
...have you never defended someone you thought was town?
Honestly, at this point KCC's point on AsianI possibly wanting to keep his ability for now is a far better point than this seems to be.
This begs the question - should we be claiming our infected/otherworld/las plagas entities today? If we have a non-entity cop out there, could catch scum in a lie even before they kill. Also, obviously WG.
Same for infections.
I say yes, and I'll be happy to lead off if we reach a majority.
Sounds too much like a massclaim to me. I say no.
I also highly have doubts as to the final effectiveness of such a claim, looking at what Wheat claimed.
You all are killing me. This is not a mass-claim. It's a non-human entity claim where zero role information is released and basically guarantees us the scum either get caught or can get caught lying. I'm floored at all the resistance to this plan.
...okay, let's put it this way. The reason why I'm less than enthused by this plan has to do with me seeing your plan, then looking at Wheat's claim, doing some extrapolation, and then immediately seeing at least two ways in which I would be able to screw with this plan or even use it to my advantage as scum. Granted, at least one of them requires some conditions to be cleared, but those conditions are far from an impossibility or even an improbability.
@DYH: No to the mutation massclaim. I disagree that it paints targets on our faces, since I'm assuming everyone has at least one positive mutation and potentially one negative mutation. But I can't see any possible gain -- scum can still lie about their abilities. The only point of interest is if two people claim duplicate positive mutations. (And in that case, their abilities should be made public ASAP, because we, as scum, won in Eeveeloution by killing off town that had duplicate roles as us before they could claim.) Maybe early D2?
As long as it's before WG reveals his information, sure, I can see this. Also allows for the case where WG is nightkilled. This hesitation at least makes sense.
And yes, now that you mention it, just killing off WG also invalidates the point of the claim as well, doesn't it?
You gotta figure out a new way to post content bro.
Shark's metric indicates me as irrevocably scum, but his analysis has just about as many points in my favor as against.
...if you'd actually read it, his metric is 0=scum, 2=neutral. So 1 is?... right halfway in between. Duh.
I don't like the metric because it looks a bit skewed, but since the only person he has as 5 is himself, it's more or less really a 0-4 metric. This point is just weak.
...why I am even arguing this when Shark is probably scum?... Meh.
It's a pity because I like when Seppel is town because he's a good player. I don't think he's scum because I haven't seen whatever it is that made everyone vote him. I specifically asked for it but no one ever answered.
Yes I realize that is partly why he can win as third parties but it doesn't change the facts.
You must be joking, or blatantly not paying attention. You asked, and I answered, pointing you to the entire freaking case on Seppel one post above. The case that is helpfully mentioned in bold on top, with a tl;dr version on the bottom. Further, the line where I answer and point you to said case is directly above the question I wanted you to answer, and which you did.
If you're town, you're doing a very poor job of it right now.
Erm. Hi guys. Thanks for the warmth reception earlier today. I love you all. I love everybody. I don't love Seppel that much right now, though. He's being to sinister to be cuddled.
Although I've been skimming through the game, I wanna ask @Seppel (AND ONLY SEPPEL): would you mind resuming, in your perception, the major events of the game so far? Pretty please?
So someone having the right idea, but failing in execution, doesn't mean they are scum. Seppel's approach is through a pro-town in my view.
Not good enough. For one thing, 'doesn't mean they are scum' is not equivalent to 'pro-town'. What you just outlined is a whole string of neutral to anti-town actions, that you yourself disagreed with (thus already failing the 'right idea' bit too), and then you're saying that 'he might still be town'. Which is always a possibility anyway except in the most blatant of cases.
...simply put? You're giving me a lot of 'this doesn't necessarily mean he's 100% scum', but none of that should make you think he's town. The one point you have is the horribly vague 'his mindset is town'... which, if you'd bothered to read my case, you should know that I disagree with, and have provided reasons why I feel his mindset is inconsistent with town. You... have had absolutely no comment on any of this except to handwave his actions as 'pro-town' with little to no reasoning.
I was not actively trying to discredit Cantripmancer's entire body of work this game (which feels fairly town), but he was the first to suggest a cult and that should have some weight if a cult flips. I still have another ~400+ posts to go through to find the cults, but from the initial burst, cantrip is up there in the biggest proponents in creating the cult myth.
Also, it's more likely though that scum is continuing the cult myth and making it last longer, so I expect that whoever pushes it more in the next half is more likely to be actually scum.
....really? You're still persisting in trying to pin this on Cantrip? And do you know the meaning of the word 'proponents'? Because past the initial hypothetical I don't recall Cantrip saying a single word about it.
I also like your escape clause in that last line. Or rather, I really don't like it.
....although now that I notice, Cantrip hasn't actually posted in a long while...
Hypothetically, if someone had the means to shut off all abilities, both scum and town, would you consider it scummy for someone to use that power? -If so, why?
Except it was never going to be 'all abilities'.
I never said it was -that is what the word "hypothetically" means.
@AE: I'd still like an answer to this, BTW.
Then that hypothetical is still totally irrelevant to this case, because that's patently not what was going on here. Which begs the question of why in the world you're bringing up said hypothetical.
I haven't seen any of the telltale signs of scum-seppel yet.
And what in blazes are those supposed to be? You've been excusing Seppel continuously with absolutely nothing but meta!
Well, yeah. Seppel is what I consider to be a non-model townie. Meaning, when he is town, he routinely sets off my standard scumdar (which is obviously not ideal for correct reads). So, he is one of the players who I look for much more personalized tells when analyzing. -And no, I'm not going into what those are at the moment, though I will point it out if I see one. Anyway, if you are sure he is scum, there are 16 other players for you to convince -I just won't be one of them unless I see something that makes me think he is scum.[/quote]
I'm well aware Seppel is far from a 'standard 1/1 townie'. No matter how ridiculously eccentric you are, however, as long as you're at a certain standard of play quality there's no faking inconsistencies in motives and mindsets, which is at least part of my case on him.
And I don't at all like the 'look thee elsewhere' line at the end there.
But, there were some decent points mixed in, especially towards the end, that I thought were worth keeping in mind.
....which points?
I really don't feel like going back to look it up, but off the top of my head, I believe he made a point about Seppel's Asian-vote looking potentially scum motivated and his "good-guy" claim seeming out a bit of place in that post, both of which I agreed with (though, if either/both of those points were actually made in different posts, then please yell at me to go back and actually look it up).
....the point on the 'good guy' claim was bad, because Seppel obviously said it in response to Silver's claim, to further incriminate Silver. I don't see how you could have thought it a good point.
I don't think that's worth a vote, but I'll let Alpha field that when he gets back.
Well, that's never happening, but seppel already fielded it anyway (and that explanation made sense) so :shrug:. However, while I agree that it wasn't lynch-worthy, by any means, why wouldn't it be worth a single D1 vote to get a response from him on it?
As I told Wheat, there's nothing in those two posts that doesn't mesh at all.
IDK, a '1' is pretty low on that scale if Shark has an overall accepting opinion of WG's claim. -Shark even agreed that his read was inconsistent and modified it after being questioned on it.
If anything, it's questionable to me why this hurts your town read on Shark but not Shark's absolutely bogus opinions on Seppel and his attempt to paint Cantrip as being a 'main proponent of the cult leader theory'.
Overall, I've thought his posts have had a town tone to them, so anything that I could see potentially coming from a town-shark wasn't going to change my read.
However, now that I've seen some things that are making me suspicious, I'll go back and reread for these issues to reevaluate.
Yes. Please do.
----------------------------
Nearly every recent kpaca post says nothing and does nothing. He's rapidly climbing up my 'lynch now' list.
I still think Seppel is scum, but kpaca (as mentioned) and Shark are definitely stoking my urge to kill right now.
Cantripmancer, ganderin_dan, and Prophylaxis all need to get in here. Especially the last two.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Dc if you really think I can remember anytjing other than I won ghost town mafia, well you dont know much about my life. I think someone else here can corroborate that you shouldn't expect much of my memory.
I dont recall you as voteless mafia. Did you get a vote when you died?
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@dC: I gave Maokun the "burden of proof" argument because he was being so narrow minded. I had told him the exact events that happened, and he was like, "no it obviously happened this other way, which makes you scum." I didn't expect him to try to come up with an answer (if he did, that would have been instant scumtell) -- I expected him to understand that his logic was flawed.
To my surprise, he flat out dropped the argument. Ergo, he's town, and I'm really glad he's getting better at mafia, because, from my experience with him in KotH, I believe he has a lot of potential.
Man, this post is so wildly different to anything KK ever posted in his latest game as town that I'm having trouble not voting him on reflex alone.
Man, you trying, in my very first post, to subtly imply I'm not town based on the meta of a single game where I was lynched on Day 1 is making me have trouble not voting you on reflex alone.
RVS
SharkFinnigan asks a bad question about infections
Kpaca wants a Hospital Slumber Party (HSP)
Silver breadcrumbs using a whole loaf of bread about his "cult but not really a cult honestly" role
AsianInvasion steps in and says that he's a mason with Silver, unconfirmed alignment
Wheat gets pushed to claim and claims forensic scientist
Proph starts to post once he gets votes
desCoures starts a Seppel wagon
DYH vouches that Cyan is town
Seppel gets suspicious but upon review, desCoures and DYH turn out to be town
Proph disappears so we vote him again
KCC is being super weird
Kosakosa replaces in
Because when I joined in I was having many shady vibes from Seppel, so I wanted to know his perspective of the game. Is his summary ok or do you (or anyone else) feel like there are things that shouldn't be there, or points he missed?
@all: As she chose to say, yes, I'm Magenta's boyfriend. She got interested in playing here after seeing me play in her house, and we also play it a lot IRL with our friends. This is her actual first online game, and no, she's not a gimmick.
As I've already clarified to Iso, since we planned to play in the same game, I wasn't helping her before joining in, and we don't talk about it when we're together. We pretend it doesn't exist, so obviously I don't know anything about her alignment, role, flavor, whatever, and vice-versa, so the spirit of the game is kept intact.
Alright, here's my thoughts on everyone / the general standing of the game at the moment. As mentioned previously, I'll be away from posting this afternoon until sometime on Wednesday, so I figured getting a nice summary of my positions up would be good to do.
1. Megiddo -- I haven't seen anything here that worries me yet. He's been asking good questions overall so far, and while he's not strongly town either, I have nothing to complain about at this time.
2. ganderin_dan -- Apparently Dan's life has been miserably busy lately, since he's had two long v/las back-to-back. Hopefully once he's back from wherever he's at atm, he'll provide some good content. I don't remember him as having any notably poor posts before his absence, and being busy isn't a scumtell. I'm fine with waiting.
3. AlphaInsidiousKosa^2 -- AlphaI said a few really peculiar things before falling ill, which unfortunately it seems like we're never going to get an answer to. I'm curious of what the reasoning was behind asking Seppel-only for the summary of events thusfar -- I'm assuming that Kosa wanted to try to get into Seppel's frame of mind via how Seppel has accessed the events thusfar, but I find that a tactic of questionable usefulness.
4. Maokun -- Maokun has had kind of a peculiar slippery effect in my mind. As I sit here typing this, I'm having a hard time remembering any details about his play thusfar. That worries me in my gut.
5. Cyan -- Cyan's been less active in this game than he was in Checks, but most of his content posts / responses to various stimuli have been very similar to his play in Checks (where he was town). I can't imagine that his relative lack of activity is due to a lack of things to discuss, since this game's been pretty busy for a Day 1. But, as I said with Dan -- being busy isn't a scumtell. Hopefully Cyan posts more as time passes.
6. KittyCupCake -- KCC has also been rather quiet -- or maybe she's just getting drowned out by dC's dreadnoughts. While I like the questions that she has been asking, I don't think that she's asking enough of them / them in the right direction. Her complete ignoring of the Seppel wagon on the grounds of meta alone seems weak to me. I'll note that I haven't played with KCC before, but I've heard nothing but good things, and it seems odd for one of the veterans to be turning a blind eye to Seppel on such shaky reasoning.
7. Seppel -- dC's case is better than mine (although I still say that mine had some good points too, dammit [I'm not useless! =( ]). I find the overall lack of attention being paid to his wagon horrifying regardless of whether Seppel is town or scum. This lack strengthens my belief that Seppel is scum -- if Seppel were town, I believe that the scumteam would be doing what they could to help get him mislynched due to his strength as a player.
8. Magenta -- I'm concerned about Magenta, and more so now that Kosa (apparently her bf) is in this case. I fervently hope that nothing out-of-game happens; I don't believe that Kosa, at least, would allow anything to happen, but the potential exists and is scary. As for Magenta's play overall, it actually makes sense if she's Kosa's bf -- she's probably followed some of Kosa's games, and learned some of the terminology / Mafia basics from him. However, her initial complete /barning and total lack of original content does not fall within the category of things that she should have learned from Kosa, and that gives me some serious pause -- especially since she still hasn't been producing any content.
9. Archmage Eternal -- AE's being his usual AE self. Someone described AE perfectly when they said that he likes to sit in the shadows and just kind of snipe at people periodically. So far I haven't seen anything inconsistent with what I've seen from AE previously.
10. Wheat_Grinder -- Wheat's interactions with Seppel are very scummy, and Wheat has consistently been the scummiest player this game. His claim has felt off to me since he made it, and although his role is theoretically powerful if present on town, it's also very easy to lie about, and I just can't see town in his play overall. His initial plan of riding Shark straight on till dawn feels increasingly like distancing, as Shark/Wheat's opinions on each other keep flip-flopping.
11. Cantripmancer -- Cantrip's made a lot of solid points so far this game, and I've liked what he's had to say overall. He's one of my strongest town reads at the moment.
12. AsianInvasion -- I feel AsianI to be town. I want AsianI to be town. But I don't put it past Iso to arrange things such that AsianI's role is scum. For now, however, I choose to believe AsianI to be town, and trust that with more time, I'll be better able to decide for certain one way or another. I don't have an issue with AsianI's commentary on Wheat's claim, since he was not alone in his interpretation. He has adequate reasons to be defending me as either town or scum, so that's a null.
13. Prophylaxis -- I haven't liked the wagon(s) on Proph. I feel like he's vastly too easy of a mislynch and of a bus target. I'm not going to condone his play thusfar, but I think that as long as we make sure to keep some modicum of pressure on him, he shouldn't toDay's lynch at the least.
14. SharkFinnigan -- The biggest issues I have with Shark are his position on Wheat, and his incessant defending of Seppel based on mindset, with no examples provided. I would call Shark leaning scum at this point. I'll confess that at least some of that read is based on his town-stance on two players that I find scum, however.
15. DYH -- DYH has played about how I expected him to play from the five minutes he was in Giant Robot with me. He's been aggressive and tenacious, and although I haven't enjoyed being the object of those traits, I consider his play strongly town.
16. SilverSihhe -- /wave
17. kpaca -- I still say that Kpaca is a huge troll, regardless of whatever else he may be. I also still say that I see malicious intent behind Seppel's pushing of the Hospital, but not Kpaca's initiating of it. Kpaca let go of it fairly quickly, and I read most of as trying to get reactions from people and not an idea to be taken seriously. Now, at the same time, Kpaca hasn't really been providing much content -- mostly he pops in to fire one-liners at people. I don't know what to think of Kpaca at the moment =/
18. desCoures -- dC's dreadnoughts of content have been fantastic all game. 'Nough said.
---------
Now, the way I see things, there's a few plausible ways that the game can go at the moment.
1. We lynch Wheat. While I like DYH's idea of the monster-claim and then using Wheat's role to basically trap the scum, I feel that the risk of Wheat being scum is vastly too high for the plan to work. Wheat hasn't made any friends (other than Shark, I guess) post-claim, and I feel there are enough holes in his claim to drive the Statue of Liberty through.
2. We lynch Seppel. This is still my pick. If people don't like my points because I'm too close to the situation (which is fair, although I tried to be as even-minded as I could with it), then go look at dC's (largely unanswered) case. Seppel is one of the players that I have the highest respect for, and I firmly believe that if there's as much suspicion of him Day 1 as there is currently, the risk of scum!Seppel is vastly too high for him to survive. Losing town!Seppel would be a huge blow, but I think that the risk outweighs the gain -- especially given the shield of inattentiveness which seems to surround him and deflect attempts at calling attention to his play thusfar.
3. We lynch me. I fully acknowledge that I probably need to die at some point, because eventually just the potential danger that I'm lying about my role will become a threat to the town. If I have to die toDay, then I can accept that because at least I've learned a few things from this game already -- not as much as I think I could learn should my existence continue, but I can deal with that. I do still believe my role to be of enormous potential use to the town, but I recognize that without my flip proving that I am what I say I am, my continued existence could divide the town unnecessarily. I think that any of the other options would be better, but obviously I'm slightly biased in that regard. Regardless, it's an option that's on the table.
4. We lynch Proph. I'm wary of this option because of the ease with which Proph could be mislynched. Proph has certainly earned his lynch should it come to him, but I would argue that there are better choices that could be made (see: Wheat or Seppel). It is important, though, I would agree, that we keep some amount of pressure on Proph so he doesn't just up and vanish, like he is admittedly prone to do.
So yeah. Those are my reads and my thoughts on the game overall. I'll be around and still active until around 3:30 this afternoon -- after that I'll be pretty much relegated to reading along and maybe a 1-liner post here or there, if critical. I shall return in full on Wednesday -- well, I guess not really in full since I'll be missing 4 wisdom teeth, but you know what I mean.
Because when I joined in I was having many shady vibes from Seppel, so I wanted to know his perspective of the game. Is his summary ok or do you (or anyone else) feel like there are things that shouldn't be there, or points he missed?
I thought your answer was going to be "Because he did such an amazing job of it in Ataghan."
7. Seppel -- dC's case is better than mine (although I still say that mine had some good points too, dammit [I'm not useless! =( ]). I find the overall lack of attention being paid to his wagon horrifying regardless of whether Seppel is town or scum. This lack strengthens my belief that Seppel is scum -- if Seppel were town, I believe that the scumteam would be doing what they could to help get him mislynched due to his strength as a player.
Possibilities:
* The wagon was largely scum-driven and the town is actually smart.
* The scumteam is incredibly disorganized, and/or scared to try to bring the wagon to a climax.
I'm betting it's the second option, based on my finding that desCoures is very, very likely town.
AE's being his usual AE self. Someone described AE perfectly when they said that he likes to sit in the shadows and just kind of snipe at people periodically. So far I haven't seen anything inconsistent with what I've seen from AE previously.
I think of AE as one step above Tordeck in that category. And I agree with your thoughts. It's aggravating how hard it is to read AE.
Wheat's interactions with Seppel are very scummy, and Wheat has consistently been the scummiest player this game. His claim has felt off to me since he made it, and although his role is theoretically powerful if present on town, it's also very easy to lie about, and I just can't see town in his play overall. His initial plan of riding Shark straight on till dawn feels increasingly like distancing, as Shark/Wheat's opinions on each other keep flip-flopping.
I would have expected a counterclaim if Wheat was lying. His ability is practically a requirement for a game like this.
Cantripmancer -- Cantrip's made a lot of solid points so far this game, and I've liked what he's had to say overall. He's one of my strongest town reads at the moment.
I haven't liked the wagon(s) on Proph. I feel like he's vastly too easy of a mislynch and of a bus target. I'm not going to condone his play thusfar, but I think that as long as we make sure to keep some modicum of pressure on him, he shouldn't toDay's lynch at the least.
The biggest issues I have with Shark are his position on Wheat, and his incessant defending of Seppel based on mindset, with no examples provided. I would call Shark leaning scum at this point. I'll confess that at least some of that read is based on his town-stance on two players that I find scum, however.
I'm going to need you to read through Shark's posts and attempt to follow his mindset. There's a clear path of thought that evolves throughout his posts, compared to his scumgames where he is only reacting to the current set of posts.
1. We lynch Wheat. While I like DYH's idea of the monster-claim and then using Wheat's role to basically trap the scum, I feel that the risk of Wheat being scum is vastly too high for the plan to work. Wheat hasn't made any friends (other than Shark, I guess) post-claim, and I feel there are enough holes in his claim to drive the Statue of Liberty through.
2. We lynch Seppel. This is still my pick. If people don't like my points because I'm too close to the situation (which is fair, although I tried to be as even-minded as I could with it), then go look at dC's (largely unanswered) case. Seppel is one of the players that I have the highest respect for, and I firmly believe that if there's as much suspicion of him Day 1 as there is currently, the risk of scum!Seppel is vastly too high for him to survive. Losing town!Seppel would be a huge blow, but I think that the risk outweighs the gain -- especially given the shield of inattentiveness which seems to surround him and deflect attempts at calling attention to his play thusfar.
No.
I've defended the points that I feel are worth defending. desCoures reading town to me also means I have less interest in his case.
You call it deflecting, but I call it moving on. I'm not going to stop trying to solve the game just because there's votes on me.
3. We lynch me. I fully acknowledge that I probably need to die at some point, because eventually just the potential danger that I'm lying about my role will become a threat to the town. If I have to die toDay, then I can accept that because at least I've learned a few things from this game already -- not as much as I think I could learn should my existence continue, but I can deal with that. I do still believe my role to be of enormous potential use to the town, but I recognize that without my flip proving that I am what I say I am, my continued existence could divide the town unnecessarily. I think that any of the other options would be better, but obviously I'm slightly biased in that regard. Regardless, it's an option that's on the table.
No.
If you really are town and you really are as good as you claim to me, you're the highest priority for a mafia kill. Like hell I'd let you get lynched.
4. We lynch Proph. I'm wary of this option because of the ease with which Proph could be mislynched. Proph has certainly earned his lynch should it come to him, but I would argue that there are better choices that could be made (see: Wheat or Seppel). It is important, though, I would agree, that we keep some amount of pressure on Proph so he doesn't just up and vanish, like he is admittedly prone to do.
You keep saying that you're worried about his ease of being "mislynched," instead of just "lynched," when it's clear that he's easy to lynch whether town or anti-town. So drop the posturing.
@SS: Which 2 players do I have a town position for that you have as scum? I know I have a town-Seppel read. Who's the other?
On Wheat (mentioned by several players): I still can't gauge where I want him to be. His claim is fine. I don't like his mindset of basically bullheaded tunneling, but I don't like AI's attack of him when almost lynched. So it's like I cannot tell whether he's town or not. I'm wavering on him, but maybe when a few deaths occur or someone else stumbles, we'll see how he behaves and whether or not its from a town-mindset.
@Seppel: Sudden change of heart. Has the Cult Leader recruited you and forcing your new opinion?
Also, this is a town SS.
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
7. Seppel -- dC's case is better than mine (although I still say that mine had some good points too, dammit [I'm not useless! =( ]). I find the overall lack of attention being paid to his wagon horrifying regardless of whether Seppel is town or scum. This lack strengthens my belief that Seppel is scum -- if Seppel were town, I believe that the scumteam would be doing what they could to help get him mislynched due to his strength as a player.
Possibilities:
* The wagon was largely scum-driven and the town is actually smart.
* The scumteam is incredibly disorganized, and/or scared to try to bring the wagon to a climax.
I'm betting it's the second option, based on my finding that desCoures is very, very likely town.
If you're betting that it's the second option, then who is your scumteam right now? There aren't a lot of inexperienced players in this game -- Magenta is the only one that I can see, with myself and Kosa being a few steps above her.
AE's being his usual AE self. Someone described AE perfectly when they said that he likes to sit in the shadows and just kind of snipe at people periodically. So far I haven't seen anything inconsistent with what I've seen from AE previously.
I think of AE as one step above Tordeck in that category. And I agree with your thoughts. It's aggravating how hard it is to read AE.
I don't think that I've played with Tordeck yet, so I can't say that I understand the reference. I'm guessing that Tordeck is even worse along the same lines?
What do you think of AE at the moment? Assuming dC and I are both town, and you're town, then AE's vote on your wagon could easily be a scum vote. It's in the right position for one.
Wheat's interactions with Seppel are very scummy, and Wheat has consistently been the scummiest player this game. His claim has felt off to me since he made it, and although his role is theoretically powerful if present on town, it's also very easy to lie about, and I just can't see town in his play overall. His initial plan of riding Shark straight on till dawn feels increasingly like distancing, as Shark/Wheat's opinions on each other keep flip-flopping.
I would have expected a counterclaim if Wheat was lying. His ability is practically a requirement for a game like this.
I don't think he's lying about that at all -- regardless of any other issues with his claim, I believe that he's telling the truth about the dead-body-investigator ability. I just think that it'd be easy for him to lie about his results, if he's scum.
Cantripmancer -- Cantrip's made a lot of solid points so far this game, and I've liked what he's had to say overall. He's one of my strongest town reads at the moment.
I haven't liked the wagon(s) on Proph. I feel like he's vastly too easy of a mislynch and of a bus target. I'm not going to condone his play thusfar, but I think that as long as we make sure to keep some modicum of pressure on him, he shouldn't toDay's lynch at the least.
Where have you found him to be an easy mislynch?
I haven't found him to be an easy mislynch anywhere, because the past tense implies that I've experienced that. I do acknowledge his meta, though, and it's from that background that I make this note. His meta is very lynchable in general.
The biggest issues I have with Shark are his position on Wheat, and his incessant defending of Seppel based on mindset, with no examples provided. I would call Shark leaning scum at this point. I'll confess that at least some of that read is based on his town-stance on two players that I find scum, however.
I'm going to need you to read through Shark's posts and attempt to follow his mindset. There's a clear path of thought that evolves throughout his posts, compared to his scumgames where he is only reacting to the current set of posts.
I don't have the time this afternoon to re-read Shark. I mostly just don't like his interactions with you and Wheat. It's entirely within the realm of possibility that I'm just jumping at shadows here.
1. We lynch Wheat. While I like DYH's idea of the monster-claim and then using Wheat's role to basically trap the scum, I feel that the risk of Wheat being scum is vastly too high for the plan to work. Wheat hasn't made any friends (other than Shark, I guess) post-claim, and I feel there are enough holes in his claim to drive the Statue of Liberty through.
No.
Please restate all of these holes.
Quote from Wheat »
I'm Harry Mason.
I am Town.
My title is Forensic Investigator. Once per day I can target a dead guy and see what pathogens they were infected with, as well as what non-human entities targeted them, if any.
Otherworld ability: Pyramid Head
T-virus ability: Thanatos
Las Plagas ability: Ganado
Harry is a writer, not any kind of a scientist.
There's zero connection between Harry and Pyramid Head. James and Pyramid yes, but not Harry.
Thanatos is one of the most powerful tyrants in RE. It would make sense for Thanatos to be paired with a weak initial ability, not something like the Forensic ability. There's too much of a conflict -- why would Wheat ever want to use any other ability than his Forensic?
Ganado is a classification of entity from RE4. You had different kinds of Ganados, ranging from villagers, to the obnoxious chainsaw guys, to cultists, to railgun guys, etc. It's not a specific mutation, it's a category of mutations.
2. We lynch Seppel. This is still my pick. If people don't like my points because I'm too close to the situation (which is fair, although I tried to be as even-minded as I could with it), then go look at dC's (largely unanswered) case. Seppel is one of the players that I have the highest respect for, and I firmly believe that if there's as much suspicion of him Day 1 as there is currently, the risk of scum!Seppel is vastly too high for him to survive. Losing town!Seppel would be a huge blow, but I think that the risk outweighs the gain -- especially given the shield of inattentiveness which seems to surround him and deflect attempts at calling attention to his play thusfar.
No.
I've defended the points that I feel are worth defending. desCoures reading town to me also means I have less interest in his case.
You call it deflecting, but I call it moving on. I'm not going to stop trying to solve the game just because there's votes on me.
How does dC reading town to you mean that you have less interest in his case? I should think that it's the opposite -- wouldn't you want to convince him that you're town? Town players finding each other and getting good feels for each other seems critical. If someone throws a bad case at me / it's from someone I feel is scum, I'm substantially less likely to respond to it. Maybe that's a difference in playstyle -- I dunno. Doesn't make sense to me, though.
And when you say that you aren't going to stop trying to solve the game because votes....isn't that straight from your "playing as scum" handbook/tips/whatever?
3. We lynch me. I fully acknowledge that I probably need to die at some point, because eventually just the potential danger that I'm lying about my role will become a threat to the town. If I have to die toDay, then I can accept that because at least I've learned a few things from this game already -- not as much as I think I could learn should my existence continue, but I can deal with that. I do still believe my role to be of enormous potential use to the town, but I recognize that without my flip proving that I am what I say I am, my continued existence could divide the town unnecessarily. I think that any of the other options would be better, but obviously I'm slightly biased in that regard. Regardless, it's an option that's on the table.
No.
If you really are town and you really are as good as you claim to me, you're the highest priority for a mafia kill. Like hell I'd let you get lynched.
I'm guessing you mistyped here. I certainly don't think that I'm good at the game. I want to be, and I'm working as hard as I can on that goal, but I'm definitely not there yet.
4. We lynch Proph. I'm wary of this option because of the ease with which Proph could be mislynched. Proph has certainly earned his lynch should it come to him, but I would argue that there are better choices that could be made (see: Wheat or Seppel). It is important, though, I would agree, that we keep some amount of pressure on Proph so he doesn't just up and vanish, like he is admittedly prone to do.
You keep saying that you're worried about his ease of being "mislynched," instead of just "lynched," when it's clear that he's easy to lynch whether town or anti-town. So drop the posturing.
That's a fair point, and honestly closer to what I meant anyway.
So, what else do you see happening? There aren't any other wagons going. There's at least a few people who for sure won't have wagons going on them toDay -- DYH, dC, and Cantrip come immediately to mind.
This just exacerbates even further in my mind the degrees to which you aren't playing like you usually do. You're usually throwing your vote around a lot more, and more randomly, than you are this game. You'll poke and needle and prod in six or seven different places at once. The extent to which you've done that this game is....Cyan. And that's basically it.
@SS: Which 2 players do I have a town position for that you have as scum? I know I have a town-Seppel read. Who's the other?
On Wheat (mentioned by several players): I still can't gauge where I want him to be. His claim is fine. I don't like his mindset of basically bullheaded tunneling, but I don't like AI's attack of him when almost lynched. So it's like I cannot tell whether he's town or not. I'm wavering on him, but maybe when a few deaths occur or someone else stumbles, we'll see how he behaves and whether or not its from a town-mindset.
@Seppel: Sudden change of heart. Has the Cult Leader recruited you and forcing your new opinion?
Also, this is a town SS.
Wheat was the second one -- you've been going back and forth on him for a while now, but it had seemed like you'd finally settled on a town read. If I was mistaken, I apologize.
AI's attack on Wheat was fine, if the only issue you have is the timing. It seems to me that Wheat's wagon was a fairly natural progression as far as mafia is concerned -- he got pushed to claim, he claimed, and then the players figure out what they want to do. If AI's attack was for a reason that Wheat had already been pushed to claim for, then I would agree with you, and be condemning AI hard instead of defending him. But, given the nature of the mistake-when-reading, the fact that multiple people shared his interpretation, and the fact that AI was attacking Wheat for a perceived claim issue and not one of the reasons that Wheat had been voted in the first place, I don't see an issue there.
More so the fact that he didn't want us to gain abilities and hide behind the facade of going on behavior. Seeing how this is a specialty...yea, sure.
Hypothetically, if someone had the means to shut off all abilities, both scum and town, would you consider it scummy for someone to use that power? -If so, why?
How is hypothetical going to help in this game? I'd be fine discussing it in the Theory and discussion thread so we're not causing distractions here. But I will say it's not a matter of one straight answer. There'd be variables to consider. We can talk post game. Unless you really think there's a correlation.
He has a passive that makes him post when he gets voted.
I would like to know what infections/mutations Proph currently has.
ACTUALLY WOW
Proph, why haven't you told us what mutation causes us to lose a vote?
Unvote, vote Proph
I'd like answers from Proph.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Cmon man, no way the guy with no day 1 vote is scum.
I think we'd all like to know what Proph's mutation does. But something about this line doesn't add up.
Why are you assuming that multiple people have the same mutation? That seems like one of two things:
A: The scum (who have shared their roles with each other), have some overlap in their mutations.
B: Fearmongering based on the idea of losing one's vote due to a mutation.
Neither of these are attractive reasons to be pushing the issue; nor is genuine curiosity a sufficient reason to vote someone. There are enough other reasons to vote Proph as is. Voting him for this looks bad IMO.
Nobody gives a flying skadooo what you want.
Again, I am truly sorry to put Iso and everyone else in this position, but my health has to come first.
Get well soon!
Barn. Feel better soon, man.
Hope you get better as well!
I assumed, like several others did apparently, that W_G claimed to get his results in the form of a player name if that player has a mutation, while it now appears that he claimed to get results in the form of a mutation name.
I disagree; there is definitely a resistant tone to Prophy's question. While it's possible that he was hoping that someone could "talk him onto the wagon," that seems like a rather roundabout way to go about it considering other players were already jumping on without giving more justification than "says every caught scum ever" and "lol Axelrod."
[insert non-human entity here] = Las Plagas
The information I was given by SS (which is now public) in our QT, when paired with my role PM indicating that being infected by Las Plagas gives me an ability, made it just about impossible for him to be mafia. As I bread-crumbed in my very first post.
Also, apparently I am still getting help from the most unlikely places:
So now you're going to try to browbeat potential replacements into voting for people who think you're scum? Subtle.
This coming from the guy who wanted to lynch SS for claiming to be a cult leader.
Unvote
Vote Seppel
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Sorry for you having to leave.
@Iso Mod: Does that mean KosaKosa replaces AlphaI?
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Like I said, on the hunt.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Fine with Cyan wanting to know whos infected.
No to DYH.
Whos not commented on revealing if they're infected or not?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Erm. Hi guys. Thanks for the warmth reception earlier today. I love you all. I love everybody. I don't love Seppel that much right now, though. He's being to sinister to be cuddled.
Although I've been skimming through the game, I wanna ask @Seppel (AND ONLY SEPPEL): would you mind resuming, in your perception, the major events of the game so far? Pretty please?
Oh sweet, it's another Seppel clone.
SilverSihhe (3): Wheat_Grinder, Kosakosa, Megiddo
Wheat_Grinder (2): ganderin_dan, Maokun
Seppel (5): desCoures, Magenta, SilverSihhe, Archmage Eternal, AsianInvasion
Prophylaxis (3): Cantripmancer, Cyan, Seppel
Kosakosa (1): KittyCupCake
AsianInvasion (3): DYH, kpaca, SharkFinnigan
With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
But then I'd be Magentainsidiouseppel
Unvote
So someone having the right idea, but failing in execution, doesn't mean they are scum. Seppel's approach is through a pro-town in my view.
@dC:
I was not actively trying to discredit Cantripmancer's entire body of work this game (which feels fairly town), but he was the first to suggest a cult and that should have some weight if a cult flips. I still have another ~400+ posts to go through to find the cults, but from the initial burst, cantrip is up there in the biggest proponents in creating the cult myth.
Also, it's more likely though that scum is continuing the cult myth and making it last longer, so I expect that whoever pushes it more in the next half is more likely to be actually scum.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
I'm up for that. -It makes sense if WG's role needs it.
And, of course, I'd be fine with this as well, if we don't have consensus on the stronger soft-claim above.
What exactly makes you believe that over the town-Asian explanation?
I agree. My Shark-read has dropped to neutral-leaning scum.
I still don't think this theory makes any sense.
You're welcome.
-Though, if you are taking that as a compliment, then you must be significantly less experienced than me. So, I'd guess around 10-15 completed games?
Unless you are iso. Are you iso? -That'd be hilarious and amazing.
The case Meg made had good points about your stances and voting patterns.
The point Mao was making, however, I don't think indicates alignment at all.
So, I'm still leaning scum on you, but it's not at all because you are pretending to be new (which means nothing).
To be fair, I don't agree with Proph's mini-case there either. Though, I wouldn't be very surprised if that turns out to be distancing/busing.
I never said it was -that is what the word "hypothetically" means.
@AE: I'd still like an answer to this, BTW.
Well, yeah. Seppel is what I consider to be a non-model townie. Meaning, when he is town, he routinely sets off my standard scumdar (which is obviously not ideal for correct reads). So, he is one of the players who I look for much more personalized tells when analyzing. -And no, I'm not going into what those are at the moment, though I will point it out if I see one. Anyway, if you are sure he is scum, there are 16 other players for you to convince -I just won't be one of them unless I see something that makes me think he is scum.
I really don't feel like going back to look it up, but off the top of my head, I believe he made a point about Seppel's Asian-vote looking potentially scum motivated and his "good-guy" claim seeming out a bit of place in that post, both of which I agreed with (though, if either/both of those points were actually made in different posts, then please yell at me to go back and actually look it up).
Well, that's never happening, but seppel already fielded it anyway (and that explanation made sense) so :shrug:. However, while I agree that it wasn't lynch-worthy, by any means, why wouldn't it be worth a single D1 vote to get a response from him on it?
IDK, a '1' is pretty low on that scale if Shark has an overall accepting opinion of WG's claim. -Shark even agreed that his read was inconsistent and modified it after being questioned on it.
Overall, I've thought his posts have had a town tone to them, so anything that I could see potentially coming from a town-shark wasn't going to change my read.
However, now that I've seen some things that are making me suspicious, I'll go back and reread for these issues to reevaluate.
-I know we've never played together before. -But you'll get used to my style soon enough.
I like kosa.
Unvote for now, since kosa clearly can't respond
Man, this post is so wildly different to anything KK ever posted in his latest game as town that I'm having trouble not voting him on reflex alone.
RVS
SharkFinnigan asks a bad question about infections
Kpaca wants a Hospital Slumber Party (HSP)
Silver breadcrumbs using a whole loaf of bread about his "cult but not really a cult honestly" role
AsianInvasion steps in and says that he's a mason with Silver, unconfirmed alignment
Wheat gets pushed to claim and claims forensic scientist
Proph starts to post once he gets votes
desCoures starts a Seppel wagon
DYH vouches that Cyan is town
Seppel gets suspicious but upon review, desCoures and DYH turn out to be town
Proph disappears so we vote him again
KCC is being super weird
Kosakosa replaces in
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Btw guys, as it seems relevant in some way now, kosa is my bf.
So I do actually know someone better now lol
(so we won´t have future misunderstandings)
@Magento: To clarify..A)you are female and B)you and your boyfriend are both in this game?
This actually reminded me that ganderin_dan is still doing nothing.
Point on the Ataghan thing, although it's still strange why you chose me talking to Iso - who I never actually pursued in that game thanks to dying night 1 - over me and ced, who I was actively pursuing. Also fair enough on not having brought it up until now, although that still leaves the question of why you kept pushing the hospital plan after Iso's clarification on the Otherworld, without mentioning the caveat of leaving the hospital to be 'free' of the Otherworld.
However, it's precisely that 'not responding to 90% of my post' thing that reinforces my scum read of you, because that's a perfect to brush aside points inconvenient to you. For example - how your counterargument to Maokun was basically pushing the burden of proof onto him to prove something that no one except you can possibly prove.
@SilverSihhe
....really. Even after the bit where he suggested lynching anyone who didn't follow the plan?[/QUOTE]
While that didn't sit well with me at first, I pretty quickly figured out that he wasn't being serious. At least, I don't think he was being serious.[/quote]
Really. After this?
Apparently I overestimated the attention span and underestimated the gullibility of the players in this game. -_-;;;
@DYH
...because the player would still need to have been mutated in some way for him to get that result? It doesn't exactly take an Olympic standing long jump leap of logic to get to that, either.
...have you never defended someone you thought was town?
Honestly, at this point KCC's point on AsianI possibly wanting to keep his ability for now is a far better point than this seems to be.
...okay, let's put it this way. The reason why I'm less than enthused by this plan has to do with me seeing your plan, then looking at Wheat's claim, doing some extrapolation, and then immediately seeing at least two ways in which I would be able to screw with this plan or even use it to my advantage as scum. Granted, at least one of them requires some conditions to be cleared, but those conditions are far from an impossibility or even an improbability.
And yes, now that you mention it, just killing off WG also invalidates the point of the claim as well, doesn't it?
@Wheat_Grinder
...if you'd actually read it, his metric is 0=scum, 2=neutral. So 1 is?... right halfway in between. Duh.
I don't like the metric because it looks a bit skewed, but since the only person he has as 5 is himself, it's more or less really a 0-4 metric. This point is just weak.
...why I am even arguing this when Shark is probably scum?... Meh.
You must be joking, or blatantly not paying attention. You asked, and I answered, pointing you to the entire freaking case on Seppel one post above. The case that is helpfully mentioned in bold on top, with a tl;dr version on the bottom. Further, the line where I answer and point you to said case is directly above the question I wanted you to answer, and which you did.
If you're town, you're doing a very poor job of it right now.
@kpaca
.......
...Ghost Town. My role. You, my scumbuddy.
I call bovine faeces.
@Kosakosa
And why 'only Seppel'?
@SharkFinnigan
Not good enough. For one thing, 'doesn't mean they are scum' is not equivalent to 'pro-town'. What you just outlined is a whole string of neutral to anti-town actions, that you yourself disagreed with (thus already failing the 'right idea' bit too), and then you're saying that 'he might still be town'. Which is always a possibility anyway except in the most blatant of cases.
...simply put? You're giving me a lot of 'this doesn't necessarily mean he's 100% scum', but none of that should make you think he's town. The one point you have is the horribly vague 'his mindset is town'... which, if you'd bothered to read my case, you should know that I disagree with, and have provided reasons why I feel his mindset is inconsistent with town. You... have had absolutely no comment on any of this except to handwave his actions as 'pro-town' with little to no reasoning.
....really? You're still persisting in trying to pin this on Cantrip? And do you know the meaning of the word 'proponents'? Because past the initial hypothetical I don't recall Cantrip saying a single word about it.
I also like your escape clause in that last line. Or rather, I really don't like it.
....although now that I notice, Cantrip hasn't actually posted in a long while...
@KittyCupCake
Then that hypothetical is still totally irrelevant to this case, because that's patently not what was going on here. Which begs the question of why in the world you're bringing up said hypothetical.
Well, yeah. Seppel is what I consider to be a non-model townie. Meaning, when he is town, he routinely sets off my standard scumdar (which is obviously not ideal for correct reads). So, he is one of the players who I look for much more personalized tells when analyzing. -And no, I'm not going into what those are at the moment, though I will point it out if I see one. Anyway, if you are sure he is scum, there are 16 other players for you to convince -I just won't be one of them unless I see something that makes me think he is scum.[/quote]
I'm well aware Seppel is far from a 'standard 1/1 townie'. No matter how ridiculously eccentric you are, however, as long as you're at a certain standard of play quality there's no faking inconsistencies in motives and mindsets, which is at least part of my case on him.
And I don't at all like the 'look thee elsewhere' line at the end there.
....the point on the 'good guy' claim was bad, because Seppel obviously said it in response to Silver's claim, to further incriminate Silver. I don't see how you could have thought it a good point.
Well, I wouldn't have bothered, anyway.
See my response to Wheat.
Yes. Please do.
----------------------------
Nearly every recent kpaca post says nothing and does nothing. He's rapidly climbing up my 'lynch now' list.
I still think Seppel is scum, but kpaca (as mentioned) and Shark are definitely stoking my urge to kill right now.
Cantripmancer, ganderin_dan, and Prophylaxis all need to get in here. Especially the last two.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
I dont recall you as voteless mafia. Did you get a vote when you died?
To my surprise, he flat out dropped the argument. Ergo, he's town, and I'm really glad he's getting better at mafia, because, from my experience with him in KotH, I believe he has a lot of potential.
Sorry, what I can't respond? (I like you too! My predecessor didn't, though)
Man, you trying, in my very first post, to subtly imply I'm not town based on the meta of a single game where I was lynched on Day 1 is making me have trouble not voting you on reflex alone.
Wait, it's not.
Vote Maokun
Thank you very much
Because when I joined in I was having many shady vibes from Seppel, so I wanted to know his perspective of the game. Is his summary ok or do you (or anyone else) feel like there are things that shouldn't be there, or points he missed?
@all: As she chose to say, yes, I'm Magenta's boyfriend. She got interested in playing here after seeing me play in her house, and we also play it a lot IRL with our friends. This is her actual first online game, and no, she's not a gimmick.
As I've already clarified to Iso, since we planned to play in the same game, I wasn't helping her before joining in, and we don't talk about it when we're together. We pretend it doesn't exist, so obviously I don't know anything about her alignment, role, flavor, whatever, and vice-versa, so the spirit of the game is kept intact.
1. Megiddo -- I haven't seen anything here that worries me yet. He's been asking good questions overall so far, and while he's not strongly town either, I have nothing to complain about at this time.
2. ganderin_dan -- Apparently Dan's life has been miserably busy lately, since he's had two long v/las back-to-back. Hopefully once he's back from wherever he's at atm, he'll provide some good content. I don't remember him as having any notably poor posts before his absence, and being busy isn't a scumtell. I'm fine with waiting.
3.
AlphaInsidiousKosa^2 -- AlphaI said a few really peculiar things before falling ill, which unfortunately it seems like we're never going to get an answer to. I'm curious of what the reasoning was behind asking Seppel-only for the summary of events thusfar -- I'm assuming that Kosa wanted to try to get into Seppel's frame of mind via how Seppel has accessed the events thusfar, but I find that a tactic of questionable usefulness.4. Maokun -- Maokun has had kind of a peculiar slippery effect in my mind. As I sit here typing this, I'm having a hard time remembering any details about his play thusfar. That worries me in my gut.
5. Cyan -- Cyan's been less active in this game than he was in Checks, but most of his content posts / responses to various stimuli have been very similar to his play in Checks (where he was town). I can't imagine that his relative lack of activity is due to a lack of things to discuss, since this game's been pretty busy for a Day 1. But, as I said with Dan -- being busy isn't a scumtell. Hopefully Cyan posts more as time passes.
6. KittyCupCake -- KCC has also been rather quiet -- or maybe she's just getting drowned out by dC's dreadnoughts. While I like the questions that she has been asking, I don't think that she's asking enough of them / them in the right direction. Her complete ignoring of the Seppel wagon on the grounds of meta alone seems weak to me. I'll note that I haven't played with KCC before, but I've heard nothing but good things, and it seems odd for one of the veterans to be turning a blind eye to Seppel on such shaky reasoning.
7. Seppel -- dC's case is better than mine (although I still say that mine had some good points too, dammit [I'm not useless! =( ]). I find the overall lack of attention being paid to his wagon horrifying regardless of whether Seppel is town or scum. This lack strengthens my belief that Seppel is scum -- if Seppel were town, I believe that the scumteam would be doing what they could to help get him mislynched due to his strength as a player.
8. Magenta -- I'm concerned about Magenta, and more so now that Kosa (apparently her bf) is in this case. I fervently hope that nothing out-of-game happens; I don't believe that Kosa, at least, would allow anything to happen, but the potential exists and is scary. As for Magenta's play overall, it actually makes sense if she's Kosa's bf -- she's probably followed some of Kosa's games, and learned some of the terminology / Mafia basics from him. However, her initial complete /barning and total lack of original content does not fall within the category of things that she should have learned from Kosa, and that gives me some serious pause -- especially since she still hasn't been producing any content.
9. Archmage Eternal -- AE's being his usual AE self. Someone described AE perfectly when they said that he likes to sit in the shadows and just kind of snipe at people periodically. So far I haven't seen anything inconsistent with what I've seen from AE previously.
10. Wheat_Grinder -- Wheat's interactions with Seppel are very scummy, and Wheat has consistently been the scummiest player this game. His claim has felt off to me since he made it, and although his role is theoretically powerful if present on town, it's also very easy to lie about, and I just can't see town in his play overall. His initial plan of riding Shark straight on till dawn feels increasingly like distancing, as Shark/Wheat's opinions on each other keep flip-flopping.
11. Cantripmancer -- Cantrip's made a lot of solid points so far this game, and I've liked what he's had to say overall. He's one of my strongest town reads at the moment.
12. AsianInvasion -- I feel AsianI to be town. I want AsianI to be town. But I don't put it past Iso to arrange things such that AsianI's role is scum. For now, however, I choose to believe AsianI to be town, and trust that with more time, I'll be better able to decide for certain one way or another. I don't have an issue with AsianI's commentary on Wheat's claim, since he was not alone in his interpretation. He has adequate reasons to be defending me as either town or scum, so that's a null.
13. Prophylaxis -- I haven't liked the wagon(s) on Proph. I feel like he's vastly too easy of a mislynch and of a bus target. I'm not going to condone his play thusfar, but I think that as long as we make sure to keep some modicum of pressure on him, he shouldn't toDay's lynch at the least.
14. SharkFinnigan -- The biggest issues I have with Shark are his position on Wheat, and his incessant defending of Seppel based on mindset, with no examples provided. I would call Shark leaning scum at this point. I'll confess that at least some of that read is based on his town-stance on two players that I find scum, however.
15. DYH -- DYH has played about how I expected him to play from the five minutes he was in Giant Robot with me. He's been aggressive and tenacious, and although I haven't enjoyed being the object of those traits, I consider his play strongly town.
16. SilverSihhe -- /wave
17. kpaca -- I still say that Kpaca is a huge troll, regardless of whatever else he may be. I also still say that I see malicious intent behind Seppel's pushing of the Hospital, but not Kpaca's initiating of it. Kpaca let go of it fairly quickly, and I read most of as trying to get reactions from people and not an idea to be taken seriously. Now, at the same time, Kpaca hasn't really been providing much content -- mostly he pops in to fire one-liners at people. I don't know what to think of Kpaca at the moment =/
18. desCoures -- dC's dreadnoughts of content have been fantastic all game. 'Nough said.
---------
Now, the way I see things, there's a few plausible ways that the game can go at the moment.
1. We lynch Wheat. While I like DYH's idea of the monster-claim and then using Wheat's role to basically trap the scum, I feel that the risk of Wheat being scum is vastly too high for the plan to work. Wheat hasn't made any friends (other than Shark, I guess) post-claim, and I feel there are enough holes in his claim to drive the Statue of Liberty through.
2. We lynch Seppel. This is still my pick. If people don't like my points because I'm too close to the situation (which is fair, although I tried to be as even-minded as I could with it), then go look at dC's (largely unanswered) case. Seppel is one of the players that I have the highest respect for, and I firmly believe that if there's as much suspicion of him Day 1 as there is currently, the risk of scum!Seppel is vastly too high for him to survive. Losing town!Seppel would be a huge blow, but I think that the risk outweighs the gain -- especially given the shield of inattentiveness which seems to surround him and deflect attempts at calling attention to his play thusfar.
3. We lynch me. I fully acknowledge that I probably need to die at some point, because eventually just the potential danger that I'm lying about my role will become a threat to the town. If I have to die toDay, then I can accept that because at least I've learned a few things from this game already -- not as much as I think I could learn should my existence continue, but I can deal with that. I do still believe my role to be of enormous potential use to the town, but I recognize that without my flip proving that I am what I say I am, my continued existence could divide the town unnecessarily. I think that any of the other options would be better, but obviously I'm slightly biased in that regard. Regardless, it's an option that's on the table.
4. We lynch Proph. I'm wary of this option because of the ease with which Proph could be mislynched. Proph has certainly earned his lynch should it come to him, but I would argue that there are better choices that could be made (see: Wheat or Seppel). It is important, though, I would agree, that we keep some amount of pressure on Proph so he doesn't just up and vanish, like he is admittedly prone to do.
So yeah. Those are my reads and my thoughts on the game overall. I'll be around and still active until around 3:30 this afternoon -- after that I'll be pretty much relegated to reading along and maybe a 1-liner post here or there, if critical. I shall return in full on Wednesday -- well, I guess not really in full since I'll be missing 4 wisdom teeth, but you know what I mean.
I thought your answer was going to be "Because he did such an amazing job of it in Ataghan."
Possibilities:
* The wagon was largely scum-driven and the town is actually smart.
* The scumteam is incredibly disorganized, and/or scared to try to bring the wagon to a climax.
I'm betting it's the second option, based on my finding that desCoures is very, very likely town.
I think of AE as one step above Tordeck in that category. And I agree with your thoughts. It's aggravating how hard it is to read AE.
I would have expected a counterclaim if Wheat was lying. His ability is practically a requirement for a game like this.
/agree
Where have you found him to be an easy mislynch?
@Proph: In what games have I seen your towngame?
I'm going to need you to read through Shark's posts and attempt to follow his mindset. There's a clear path of thought that evolves throughout his posts, compared to his scumgames where he is only reacting to the current set of posts.
No.
Please restate all of these holes.
No.
I've defended the points that I feel are worth defending. desCoures reading town to me also means I have less interest in his case.
You call it deflecting, but I call it moving on. I'm not going to stop trying to solve the game just because there's votes on me.
No.
If you really are town and you really are as good as you claim to me, you're the highest priority for a mafia kill. Like hell I'd let you get lynched.
You keep saying that you're worried about his ease of being "mislynched," instead of just "lynched," when it's clear that he's easy to lynch whether town or anti-town. So drop the posturing.
On Wheat (mentioned by several players): I still can't gauge where I want him to be. His claim is fine. I don't like his mindset of basically bullheaded tunneling, but I don't like AI's attack of him when almost lynched. So it's like I cannot tell whether he's town or not. I'm wavering on him, but maybe when a few deaths occur or someone else stumbles, we'll see how he behaves and whether or not its from a town-mindset.
@Seppel: Sudden change of heart. Has the Cult Leader recruited you and forcing your new opinion?
Also, this is a town SS.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
If you're betting that it's the second option, then who is your scumteam right now? There aren't a lot of inexperienced players in this game -- Magenta is the only one that I can see, with myself and Kosa being a few steps above her.
I don't think that I've played with Tordeck yet, so I can't say that I understand the reference. I'm guessing that Tordeck is even worse along the same lines?
What do you think of AE at the moment? Assuming dC and I are both town, and you're town, then AE's vote on your wagon could easily be a scum vote. It's in the right position for one.
I don't think he's lying about that at all -- regardless of any other issues with his claim, I believe that he's telling the truth about the dead-body-investigator ability. I just think that it'd be easy for him to lie about his results, if he's scum.
I haven't found him to be an easy mislynch anywhere, because the past tense implies that I've experienced that. I do acknowledge his meta, though, and it's from that background that I make this note. His meta is very lynchable in general.
I don't have the time this afternoon to re-read Shark. I mostly just don't like his interactions with you and Wheat. It's entirely within the realm of possibility that I'm just jumping at shadows here.
Harry is a writer, not any kind of a scientist.
There's zero connection between Harry and Pyramid Head. James and Pyramid yes, but not Harry.
Thanatos is one of the most powerful tyrants in RE. It would make sense for Thanatos to be paired with a weak initial ability, not something like the Forensic ability. There's too much of a conflict -- why would Wheat ever want to use any other ability than his Forensic?
Ganado is a classification of entity from RE4. You had different kinds of Ganados, ranging from villagers, to the obnoxious chainsaw guys, to cultists, to railgun guys, etc. It's not a specific mutation, it's a category of mutations.
How does dC reading town to you mean that you have less interest in his case? I should think that it's the opposite -- wouldn't you want to convince him that you're town? Town players finding each other and getting good feels for each other seems critical. If someone throws a bad case at me / it's from someone I feel is scum, I'm substantially less likely to respond to it. Maybe that's a difference in playstyle -- I dunno. Doesn't make sense to me, though.
And when you say that you aren't going to stop trying to solve the game because votes....isn't that straight from your "playing as scum" handbook/tips/whatever?
I'm guessing you mistyped here. I certainly don't think that I'm good at the game. I want to be, and I'm working as hard as I can on that goal, but I'm definitely not there yet.
That's a fair point, and honestly closer to what I meant anyway.
So, what else do you see happening? There aren't any other wagons going. There's at least a few people who for sure won't have wagons going on them toDay -- DYH, dC, and Cantrip come immediately to mind.
This just exacerbates even further in my mind the degrees to which you aren't playing like you usually do. You're usually throwing your vote around a lot more, and more randomly, than you are this game. You'll poke and needle and prod in six or seven different places at once. The extent to which you've done that this game is....Cyan. And that's basically it.
Wheat was the second one -- you've been going back and forth on him for a while now, but it had seemed like you'd finally settled on a town read. If I was mistaken, I apologize.
AI's attack on Wheat was fine, if the only issue you have is the timing. It seems to me that Wheat's wagon was a fairly natural progression as far as mafia is concerned -- he got pushed to claim, he claimed, and then the players figure out what they want to do. If AI's attack was for a reason that Wheat had already been pushed to claim for, then I would agree with you, and be condemning AI hard instead of defending him. But, given the nature of the mistake-when-reading, the fact that multiple people shared his interpretation, and the fact that AI was attacking Wheat for a perceived claim issue and not one of the reasons that Wheat had been voted in the first place, I don't see an issue there.
How is hypothetical going to help in this game? I'd be fine discussing it in the Theory and discussion thread so we're not causing distractions here. But I will say it's not a matter of one straight answer. There'd be variables to consider. We can talk post game. Unless you really think there's a correlation.
V/LA the next day and a half
They hate us cause they ain't us.
This'll be my 6th game now: Checks, a game on Guardman's site, Ataghan, OTR, Giant Robot, and this game.