Well, I'm pretty sure Shark is town. Do you wanna just go with that? If we are right, then yay!:hifive::toot::dance: But if we are wrong, at least we'll know exactly which one of us to blame.
-Anyway, Occam says Kank is town, because of the CC. But all other evidence, as well as my gut, is absolutely screaming otherwise (which, of course, is a great reason to try a crazy gambit like CCing a scumbuddy).
-EtR, I really want to believe is town, because of how consistently he was on Mao, but the paranoia part of my brain says the Mao interaction was overdone busing (like how Iso and I played in Starcraft). And the fact that I've had continual suspicions of him all game isn't helping.
-Meanwhile, IB has been so under the radar since joining (to the point where I even forgot he was playing at one point) that I can't help but be suspicious of him now (scum lurking wins games). And Mao's explosive overreaction to IB's vote on him so vastly differs from how he handled every other vote, that logic says busing is by far the most likely cause for such an anomaly.
-As for Shark, well, I had iPot as strongly town all game, and SF hasn't done anything to change that (which itself reinforces my read). Also, I have a lot of trouble picturing him in any of the 3 possible scum teams that would include him. So, I'm writing him off as town and working from there.
Basically, the only one I'm completely unwilling to vote is Shark. And I really doubt I'm going to get a clearer picture than I have already of the other three. -All of which I can imagine as scum. So, Wes, if you are really confident in your EtR read, I'm actually willing to simply go ahead and do what I proposed above. Let's lynch IB&Kank, cross our fingers, and just hope for the best.
I have to ask this because there is the totally off chance Kank is not scum. Do you see any remote chance that IB/EtR can be scumbuddies. I don't see you address this and I wanted to get your opinion there.
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
EtR 214: Did not hammer KK when easily justified EtR 215: Big PBPA on PSR instead EtR 222: Says why KK isn’t scum IB 293: Pre-attack on PSR, happy with KK as scum IB 298: Attacks PSR, defends iPot, “strikes me as off” line which is always a cop-out. IB 299: Cheesy line to Mao, worried about being “speed lynched” IB 301: Buddying up to EtR, votes PSR IB 302: Tries to start a smear on Tezz? IB 307: Goads lurky iPot into posting IB 309: Wants PSR to claim iPot 365: Happy with either KK or PSR lynch During this whole period, iPot and Mao have many, many opportunities to converse but do not. IB 384: First of jokey pic posts IB 392: Calls to Mao to vote PSR IB 454-455: Re Mao vs PSR – “Ignoring Mao cuz noob?” Huh? IB 457: Jumps on Rhand Mao 465: vs KK & EtR Mao 466: More vs EtR iPot 484: Apologizes for absence/lurky behavior—wants KK & PST lynched still, while easily could have attacked Mao’s scummy color-coded post instead—distracting behavior IB 487-489: Wants PSR & Rhand lynches. Mao’s color posts are so, so very scummy now in hindsight. Who didn’t ignore how scummy they were? EtR, that’s who! +++town EtR IB 534: Still after KK/PSR, vs KK “Mostly for his recents posts?” Riiiiight. Ignores how scummy Mao is, in fact no Mao vs IB interaction around here at all. iPot 541: vs Mao; Mild agree, mild distancing EtR 562: Huge attack on Mao. I read over this post three times. I am not seeing any scum motivation on EtR’s part at all and lots from Mao. More +++town for EtR. EtR 563: Calls out IB EtR 579: Good point EtR 603: Still attacking Mao IB 617: Huh? EtR starts day 2 still on the Mao attack. EtR had every opportunity and reason to get off Mao and join a popular mislynch wagon on KK, PSR, and even Rhand at one point on Day 1. There is no possible way that a Day 1 scum player would do this against another scum player—for what? Gaining town cred at the expense of losing an active scumbuddy for no other reason that your early bus of him? No, EtR is definitely town. I thought he was town back when I first read through the game, and it’s even stronger now that I know what Maokun is/was. I suck—SUCK—at finding scum, but I have a damn good track record of spotting true, honest townies. “But Kank, that’s because you’re scum and have the list of who’s who!” That leaves IB and Shark/iPot. I’m getting scum vibes from both IB and iPot Day 1, but no smoking guns. If I had to choose between the two of them, I’d pick IB because I think he’s been scamming us this whole time and riding EtR’s anti-Mao coattails. (And lurking a lot more recently too!) Just because I had him linked to scum KCC and I was wrong about KCC doesn’t mean that he’s in the clear.
I have to ask this because there is the totally off chance Kank is not scum. Do you see any remote chance that IB/EtR can be scumbuddies. I don't see you address this and I wanted to get your opinion there.
That was my best guess coming into Today, so yeah, easily. We already know Mao was focused on distancing and willing to bus both of his buddies. And since IB and EtR were Mao's most aggressive interactions, that scum team could make sense.
Alright, I'm caught up and exhausted. I have 11 pages of notes detailing events and interactions from post 674-current.
I'll type them up tomorrow, time permitting.
Rebuttals for iPot on Part 1 of Kank's readthrough:
Post 484: “Apologizes for absence/lurky behavior—wants KK & PST lynched still, while easily could have attacked Mao’s scummy color-coded post instead—distracting behavior”
Sorry for not posting in a while, between holidays and my normal lack of posting I'm not sure how long its been but I'm surprised I haven't been prodded.
Anywho...
As for the "luring" debate, the way he back tracks(as TMCT points out in post 481) has me not liking him at the moment. With his predecessor having a word slip as well I'm not comfortable with him at all.
That said, I would still rather see KK or PSR being lynched, with my personal preference being PSR.
vote psr
From a player who just reported in, why should he have attacked Mao’s post? I really don’t see his post as distracting as he’s at least stating he’s for one of the primary lynches. Additionally, wouldn’t have attacking Mao been distracting behavior?
Post 541: “vs Mao; Mild agree, mild distancing”
Blue: Uh? You collected those posts and didn't strike you like a natural progression? After a few horrid posts in which I marked you as scum (as some others did) your interactions with me made me consider the possibility that your case on me, as misguided as it was, had townie intentions and you were singling me out because you honestly thought I was scum. So that's buddying? Keeping one's mind open to the fact that one might be mistaken on an initial appraisal? See how you keep forcing a negative twist in everything I do? Which is, incidentally, what now makes me quite certain of your scumness.
I will say I agree with this part here, as the posts he was pulling from you, especially the way he paraphrased the important bits, looks like(as you put it)a natural thought progression.
@ everyone lurking and not voting: Please consider that if this deadline ends, the next one will require only 3 votes, which basically leaves the decision to the scum team alone. If you are town, please make up your mind because after the next deadline, the power of choosing will be taken from our hands.
This part on the other hand comes off as someone trying less to be helpful and more like someone trying to earn townie points by looking helpful. Maybe its the emphasis I read in the last sentence, maybe its because I'm tired as **** and want to sleep but a six month baby keeps telling me "sorry daddy but that's not gonna happen" and I'm feeling cantankerous, but this part comes off as less than genuine to me.
How is this distancing from Mao? Buddying /barning is more like what he’s trying to do with the first part. Given Mao is trying to rush town to make hasty decisions, I see this more from a town mindset than distancing.
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
@Wessel - what do you think of Kank's last few posts?
I'm bored so let's talk.
What do you think of IB? How has he evolved throughout this game? Anything stick out with him one way or the other?
I've read IB as town for the majority of the game. His reads (for the most part) were very similar to mine. My biggest concern with the thought of IB being scum is his push against Mao. He even kept going after I backed off which I wouldn't expect from a scum buddy.
@Wessel - what do you think of Kank's last few posts?
It's starting to give me pause. It happened similarly in OT2R where basically I was in Wessel/KCC's position except by myself. I kept flip-flopping teams and would question everything I knew. I ended up making the right decision that day but did read players wrong because of that position.
Kank now is giving me some reason to doubt, but his current points on iPot were terrible and few, yet idk where to really put him on the reasons why. Hopefully he provides SOLID points enough for his sake to change my mind. In the end, I stuck with the reads I felt most comfortable with.
tl;dr: I feel more unsure but still find Kank most likely to be scum
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
iPot 674: Concerned about appearing scummy iPot 677: Re: IB “Leaning more scum than town” –never follows up on that thought iPot 679: Always concerned about self image iPot 691: Finally responds to Mao after a lot of prodding—Null conversation EtR 697: Investigates JD—looks okay Mao 703: Decides iPot is less scummy because of weak conversation from #691??? iPot 715: Insulted by Wessel? Sounds forced. IB 717: Doesn’t believe Wessel Rhand 719: Makes a good point iPot 720: Is that cop fishing? IB 729: Questions Mao on Wessel IB 753: Still refuses to believe Wessel; weak comment vs Mao Mao 763: Casual distancing Re: IB to come? iPot 766: “Comfortable with lynching” yet never voting for anyone iPot 801: “Will await TMCT’s case on him” rather than actually do anything constructive TMCT 802: Calls him out on just that—not scumhunting IB 803: Votes MTG~DDS, FoS on TMCT for going after iPot!?!?! ++++scum IB 806: Decides to start going after Mao now? TMCT 816: Very fascinating look at iPot—oh that whole iPot is afraid of scumbombs thing! Planning the scumbomb tactic from early on with Mao??? IB 825: Defends one scummate while attacks the other IB/Mao 825-830: This looks like high school improv when compared to classic EtR vs Mao. IB 830: Ends with another cheesy pic IB 840: Playing the field—agrees that iPot looks bad along with keeping up vs Mao façade IB 841: Another pic – Maokun 2Townz IB 843: Curious that I’m seeing both of his scumbuddies as bad too Kank 844: I have Mao, IB, & iPot team but don’t fully realize it iPot 845: Responds to me saying he’s doing an awful job of appearing townie instead of TMCT’s case TMCT 846: Calls him out on it EtR 849-850: Good points iPot 853: Finally posts something of note? Huzzah! TMCT 857: More dialog w/ iPot, more mention of iPot’s scumbomb. I’m gonna call this breadscumming. EtR 864-868: vs Mao; IB vs Mao did nothing like this IB 877: FoS on me now? Yeah, that whole FoS thing is super-scummy. IB 878: Trying to stall me because my two top suspects are Mao & iPot here, despite IB supposedly being against them as well. IB 882: READ THIS POST!!! IB knows that two of the three people I listed will not flip town!!! iPot 906: Refuses to do anything but fence sit iPot 911: Still talking about the bomb thing? Good god man! iPot 914: Mentions about only caring about saving own neck instead of finding scum iPot 918: Posts immediately after Wessel and TMCT ease up on him; “overall” feel on IB and me—so lurky! IB/Mao 925-926: Getting better but still not up to Mao vs EtR levels Mao and IB are weak-bussing each other as iPot fence sits again. EtR 943: Case on KCC looks town motivated iPot 954: (Responding to prod) Gets on Mao’s bus of IB since IB said he was sick with norovirus. {I could write a whole page of WIFOM off this alone} KCC 957: Her PBPA of IB was what helped make me so suspicious of her Wessel 959: Much better IB analysis IB 973: Back and hand-waves forgetting stance on KK (yet remembers so well so many other details at opportune times!) IB 975-976: Replies to Mao & Wessel IB 992: Sarcastic reply to being my top scumspect IB 996: Better PBPA now of Mao—Gotta get that bus back up to speed since he’s now high on too many scum lists (not just mine) IB 998: Happy with DDS wagon too; “Hey look! I was still against Mao back here guys!” No mention of iPot now at all IB 1000: Ah, there is his mention of iPot now, along with me being “useless” instead of scummy. Nice. IB 1004-1008: After me now, but kisses up with birthday nod? Huh? IB 1012: Switches vote to MTG Mao 1056: Big call out to scumbuddies IB & iPot IB 1068-1069: Back on the Mao bus! Mao 1073: Oh yeah! Our fight! IB 1081: Wants Wessel to see me as scum in his assessment, another quick switch back to voting MTG KCC 1085: Says exactly what Mao/IB are trying to achieve IB 1089: Gives Mao the sign to stop now Mega lurking from iPot IB 1117: “Willing to count TMCT as confirmed town” IB 1131: Changes mind real quick and votes TMCT! Shark 1266: “IB looks town if Mao flips scum” so…EtR is chopped liver or what? Shark 1271: Points out Mao/IB’s one-act play with each other Shark 1296: Decides to analyze previous wagons instead of work out Mao’s lynch IB 1311: Reminds people how much he was against Mao all along. IB 1370: Now “super townie” and wagons MTG with less worry Shark 1374: Ready to wagon MTG too; mentions either IB or EtR must be scum Shark 1378: Super cheesy Shark 1384: “Will give you other scum with DDS soon” Shark 1391: Lazy town assessment of IB—nothing to back it up at all IB 1399: Lazy PoE list from IB Kank 1400: I request EtR assessment from Shark Shark 1401: Cops out on town read now with EtR. Uh, what about your post #1374? Hoping to find something on KCC now instead? Okayyyyy… Shark 1402: More previous vote analysis again??? “Betting IB/Kank are scum team though EtR/Kank likely” despite immediately previous post?!?! Bad idea trying to put your scum eggs in KCC’s basket and then having to backslide. Shark 1404: iPot’s play/claim gambit? Shark 1417: Shark 1424: Realizes that he has to find me scummy no matter what and try to quick wagon me before everyone can actually read the game with clear eyes and see that it is IB/Shark after all. Resorts to using flavorgaming as sole reason? “So I honestly think Kank is the remaining scum” Great line! We have the use of “honestly” which Shark likes to use a LOT, and tries to imply that there is only one scum player left and it’s Kank. You know, ‘cuz maths and such. Why would he say “the remaining scum” then? Very simple. Because he is one, and he’s not thinking about finding two scums—just “the remaining one.” Shark 1425: Knows exactly why Mao falseclaimed Shark 1430: Handwaves misuse of flavor, insists it’s a title issue IB 1431-1432: Claims, but doesn’t claim role; attacks buddy Shark now since it worked so well with Mao Shark 1448: Case more trying to defend iPot than anything; comes to “conclusion” that I’m scum IB 1449: “So there’s no real case on iPot” Surprise, surprise! Another “I’ve got to be honest” line. Shark 1450: Trying to clear iPot/IB more than anything IB 1453-Shark 1455: Trying to paint EtR and I as scum in what appears to be casual conversation EtR 1459: Good points against Shark Shark 1460: Cheesy reply to EtR Shark 1467: More vs EtR and me Shark 1479: Back to trying to poke at KCC again??? WTF??? Shark 1481: “Just had to be sure” Riiiiiight. After doing all that “iPot + IB = Good, Kank + EtR = Bad” how could he have repeatedly missed the KCC clearing AND already having asked the question before? Yet another “Honestly thinks IB is town” line.
There you have it—Shark and IB are the scum team people.
Overall, IB has more smoking guns than iPot/Shark:
Vote infectiousbaloth
I’d be more than happy to switch my vote to iPot if so desired. EtR will not be getting my vote. Period. If I’m insane and jumping at shadows with wine in my belly and tinfoil on my head, then please vote for me and put me out of my misery. Thank you.
Dear goodness Kank, you start w/ no reasoning on me and then all of the sudden you have a lot. I'll rebuttal later when I have time.
@Wessel: Yes generally, I like to clear townies too, as that helps reduce the odds. Looking at today when I finally have at least caught up and been able to know how the game state really is, we are in a situation where I see 2 confirmed town. That means there's a 33% chance that IB/EtR/Kank are scum. Would it not make sense for me to find one scum, thus improving the odds of finding the last town? And my reasoning for clearing IB hinges on his overall play being more town than scum. Though right now, I don't know what to think about IB's disappearing act. It really does bug me.
Also did you look at my comments Wessel? What there makes you feel that I am trying to look like I'm finding scum? Are there specifics that are, in your opinion, poor, scum-based points trying to actively discredit Kank and are just me trying to make him seem town?
One point on Kank I recall is about KCC: I never saw how KCC was cleared town and I rather cover my bases and make sure that everyone we clear has some justification. I mean, he behaved like a town and I want to make sure that he is justly so. I mean, we basically lost if he was scum, so I just want to be sure that I go into reading having him as town.
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
Hi, I've mentioned that my new job has killed my time and that's why I'm "active lurking". Between college classes and work, I'm essentially not replacing out because if I do, DRey would not only be hard pressed to find a replacement, but his policy of modkilling the character after 2 replacements would autowin the game for the scum team.
My gut says Shark is scum, and unless I can find some spare time soon, I've really only got that to go on.
Hi, I've mentioned that my new job has killed my time and that's why I'm "active lurking". Between college classes and work, I'm essentially not replacing out because if I do, DRey would not only be hard pressed to find a replacement, but his policy of modkilling the character after 2 replacements would autowin the game for the scum team.
My gut says Shark is scum, and unless I can find some spare time soon, I've really only got that to go on.
I'm here. Ready to vote. We should at least see who wants to vote who instead of waiting for the last minute. I recognize that 2 of the town members are in a better position than the 2 others. For me, I only see a 33% chance of guessing wrong where as Wessel and KCC are at 25% so they probably have a little more looking into things.
Something just clicked in my head as I'm going through responding to points brought up by Kank in his readthrough (note I don't think any of them are really that strong at this point), but I suggest Wessel, KCC, and whoever is town of EtR/IB to read D4.
Now this is coming from first hand experience and from Wessel's play this game: Look at Kank's initial reactions going into that day. Now from his perspective, he just lynched someone who CC'd him, so obviously he'd be town. He does not act like a confirmed town at all. He even says this
As far as I'm concerned, I died in an explosion
last night that took out the fake Garruk.
We'd still be in good shape if y'all wanted to run me up the flagpole toDay just to make sure I'm the real one.
I'm kinda bummed that I didn't die a hero's death, then you'd all know for certain.
He leaves the doubt in himself and he lets a multitude of players call him scum today, including conf. town KCC. If he really was confirmed, he would have not left doubt, would have been more adamant about his towniness and gone on from there. Yes he wasn't mod-confirmed town like Wessel or role-confirmed like myself when I played in OT2R, but still there's a level of attitude that you have when you are confirmed town, like a weight lifted off your shoulder. Now I do not get that from Kank. His notes come from desperation trying to prove his innocence, when from his view he should have already been.
That is my case for Kank being scum.
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
Pedit: @Rhand: True, but we don't guarantee scum death either. So do we go for the guarantee or risk on the general hunch. I am still developing my thoughts but I figured to give out all possibilities for desirable outcomes.
Kank: You miss the context that I’ve read like nothing and as mentioned, glancing though Mao’s posts. I had yet to see much on EtR at all and skimmed and found Mao overreacting.
The second quote as attached with the first as the first’s link was bad. I take it you really didn’t read that.
******
Shark 1296: Decides to analyze previous wagons instead of work out Mao’s lynch
D1:
Wessel (4) Rhand, EtR, Kosakosa, infectiousbaloth
KosaKosa (6) jdisawesomesauce, MTG~DDS, The Most Curious Thing, Maokun, Wessel, Kank
_____________________________
Wessel (2) infectiousbaloth, Rhand
Kosakosa (4) Maokun, Wessel, Kankennon, MTG~DDS
Rhand (1) The Most Curious Thing
Maokun (2) EtR, jdisawesomesauce
Kankennon (1) KosaKosa
_____________________________
D2
Maokun (2) EtR, jdisawesomesauceWessel (6) infectiousbaloth, The Most Curious Thing, KittyCupCake, Kankennon, Rhand, MTG~DDS
I'll do more analysis post lynch but I figured to put this here so that it's out in the open.
Any confirm towns I missed in this?
Also, @EtR: Why unvote after a hammer? Do you think TMCT is town now?
Let’s see. Mao was just lynched so analyzing his wagon is pointless until we know his flip. I was preparing myself to actually try to find the scumteam. What’s the problem here?
*******
Shark 1374: Ready to wagon MTG too; mentions either IB or EtR must be scum.
Also, I think MTGDDS is next scum, I disagree about me being scum, but really I cannot find another reason to push someone else for lynch given actions before I joined in. I don't mind it, though I prefer not to. So tomorrow we can lynch me, but honestly it's more likely that EtR or IB are scum because of the interactions that you claim to clear them. I'll look into that more in depth shortly
Yes. At this point in juncture, you were likely town and from my view it’s either IB or EtR. I had not read much yet and I trusted the reads of others who had
Can we lynch Shark instead? Especially after 1374.
Lolz. You scared of me?
Lol. How is being cheesy scummy? I figured I’d poke at EtR to get a reaction. I’ve played with him in several games now. Each one I think he’s scum in. Gotham (I was actually SK, and he was town), Atagan (I was town and he was actually scum), and here (I’m town, and this is the towniest looking game I’ve seen, yet something feels off).
EtR seemed ready to push another mislynch so I was curious to see why, especially after little reasoning.
Shark 1384: “Will give you other scum with DDS soon”
Posting that I am going person by person to see who is likely to be scum. I am starting with players assumed to be town from interactions (so players who could actually be scum).
First one is infectiousbaloth, who I've experienced playing with town/scum (usually suspecting he's scum), and seeing his early play, he seems very genuine in his scumhunting so I will agree with the notion he's town.
I was lazy and still hadn’t had time to really dig deep into this. It’s the best reasoning yet for me as scum, but really, I was focusing my attention on other stuff. As you see later, I finally had the time to dig into this game and I contributed admirably and I have no regrets on my play.
Basically, Kank expects a lot out of my initial few posts when I haven't read the game, but then later becomes more correct when it came to my quick reads on IB. That is a fair point there, but literally I still had other games on my mind/IRL. So really I had not gotten too into the game yet (unlike what you see today where I have shown up and participated fully. So I'll give him that point, but seeing the previous post, a lot of the posts he brings up are trying to do the best he can to make a scumcase on me, but I noticed he skipped out on a few posts that actually may have given him a better read or even more interesting points, specifically me calling Maokun on overreacting and getting upset over unjust lynches (happens more in scum than town).
So there we are. Expect the 2nd half by Monday night (~48 hrs from now).
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
Well I really think EtR is town and I also don't think Kank and Shark are buddies, so that would mean that IB is certainly scum due to PoE. If IB is indeed scum, who is then his buddy? Kank for possibly bussing, or Shark for going after town Kank?
I think IB/Shark is even more unlikely than Kank/Shark. The only player I could reasonably see as being buddies with Shark would be EtR.
Though thinking about it and quickly reading some of IB's posts, I get the feeling he indeed probably isn't a buddy of Maokun (note: after reading only a few posts, I haven't much time; I will do more tomorrow). And Kank's latest post makes me increasingly think that Shark and Kank are just bussing each other to make the other one seem 'cleared' in that way since we're in a mislynch or lose situation.
100% agree. They've started distancing at the beginning of the day and then moved into bus mode. At least, that's the feel I'm getting.
Also, I just realized I had my vote on Kank so if I really wanted to speedhammer I'd jus not even speak and wait for ltr to roll around and hammer then.
So my unvote is irrelevant and i don't care if you don't believe me. I am town so deal with it.
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
Also, I just realized I had my vote on Kank so if I really wanted to speedhammer I'd jus not even speak and wait for ltr to roll around and hammer then.
So my unvote is irrelevant and i don't care if you don't believe me. I am town so deal with it.
Also, I just realized I had my vote on Kank so if I really wanted to speedhammer I'd jus not even speak and wait for ltr to roll around and hammer then.
So my unvote is irrelevant and i don't care if you don't believe me. I am town so deal with it.
Grumpypants
Sticks and stones
May break my bones
But you fail to see
That the shark is free
Of crimes you say
He committed this day
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
Also, I just realized I had my vote on Kank so if I really wanted to speedhammer I'd jus not even speak and wait for ltr to roll around and hammer then.
So my unvote is irrelevant and i don't care if you don't believe me. I am town so deal with it.
You didn't realize your vote was on me? Riiiiight.
Am I the only one who cares that there's an LTR coming?
When the lynch threshhold is at three, then all it takes is one bad town vote and the two scums will slip in and end the game.
IB just has to be one of them! It boggles my mind that you guys can't see it!
Look at the post I made before I responded to half of your notes relating to me. It has 0 to do with flavorgaming and 100% to your behavior not matching the situation from a townie perspective.
I had been out all day and scanning phone and I see two votes so I unvoted to see who voted what and why.
I don't know why you are trying to rush things Kank, so let KCC and Wessel decide what to do about the LTR.
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
Wessel: you are making a huge mistake there. What makes me a better candidate than Kank or IB?
I worked my butt off trying to join a game over 80 pages long and found behavior in Kank which by definition is not how he should have behaved as town. Look again D4 Kank. He literally just lynched a scum who cc'd him so that should make him cleared town. Why would he not act like that? Tell me how he is town from that day he is town. If you fail to see that he is blatantly obvious scum from that, lynch me because i failed from the start
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
I'm on board with a Shark lynch. I really have nothing to contribute. I'm so sorry that this had to happen at end game. But seriously, go back and re-read my Maokun case. In what world does that even make sense as a bus attempt?
I have to ask this because there is the totally off chance Kank is not scum. Do you see any remote chance that IB/EtR can be scumbuddies. I don't see you address this and I wanted to get your opinion there.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
EtR 215: Big PBPA on PSR instead
EtR 222: Says why KK isn’t scum
IB 293: Pre-attack on PSR, happy with KK as scum
IB 298: Attacks PSR, defends iPot, “strikes me as off” line which is always a cop-out.
IB 299: Cheesy line to Mao, worried about being “speed lynched”
IB 301: Buddying up to EtR, votes PSR
IB 302: Tries to start a smear on Tezz?
IB 307: Goads lurky iPot into posting
IB 309: Wants PSR to claim
iPot 365: Happy with either KK or PSR lynch
During this whole period, iPot and Mao have many, many opportunities to converse but do not.
IB 384: First of jokey pic posts
IB 392: Calls to Mao to vote PSR
IB 454-455: Re Mao vs PSR – “Ignoring Mao cuz noob?” Huh?
IB 457: Jumps on Rhand
Mao 465: vs KK & EtR
Mao 466: More vs EtR
iPot 484: Apologizes for absence/lurky behavior—wants KK & PST lynched still, while easily could have attacked Mao’s scummy color-coded post instead—distracting behavior
IB 487-489: Wants PSR & Rhand lynches.
Mao’s color posts are so, so very scummy now in hindsight. Who didn’t ignore how scummy they were? EtR, that’s who! +++town EtR
IB 534: Still after KK/PSR, vs KK “Mostly for his recents posts?” Riiiiight. Ignores how scummy Mao is, in fact no Mao vs IB interaction around here at all.
iPot 541: vs Mao; Mild agree, mild distancing
EtR 562: Huge attack on Mao. I read over this post three times. I am not seeing any scum motivation on EtR’s part at all and lots from Mao. More +++town for EtR.
EtR 563: Calls out IB
EtR 579: Good point
EtR 603: Still attacking Mao
IB 617: Huh?
EtR starts day 2 still on the Mao attack.
EtR had every opportunity and reason to get off Mao and join a popular mislynch wagon on KK, PSR, and even Rhand at one point on Day 1. There is no possible way that a Day 1 scum player would do this against another scum player—for what? Gaining town cred at the expense of losing an active scumbuddy for no other reason that your early bus of him?
No, EtR is definitely town. I thought he was town back when I first read through the game, and it’s even stronger now that I know what Maokun is/was.
I suck—SUCK—at finding scum, but I have a damn good track record of spotting true, honest townies.
“But Kank, that’s because you’re scum and have the list of who’s who!”
That leaves IB and Shark/iPot.
I’m getting scum vibes from both IB and iPot Day 1, but no smoking guns.
If I had to choose between the two of them, I’d pick IB because I think he’s been scamming us this whole time and riding EtR’s anti-Mao coattails. (And lurking a lot more recently too!) Just because I had him linked to scum KCC and I was wrong about KCC doesn’t mean that he’s in the clear.
TL;DR: EtR is definitely town
That was my best guess coming into Today, so yeah, easily. We already know Mao was focused on distancing and willing to bus both of his buddies. And since IB and EtR were Mao's most aggressive interactions, that scum team could make sense.
@KCC: Thanks for making me feel better...:sweat:
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
Either you or IB. I'm going to read more later tonight if I can.
I'll type them up tomorrow, time permitting.
On thinking of ways to make me feel better about my read, where's IB?
Also, Kank, I can't wait to see your notes.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
Post 484: “Apologizes for absence/lurky behavior—wants KK & PST lynched still, while easily could have attacked Mao’s scummy color-coded post instead—distracting behavior”
From a player who just reported in, why should he have attacked Mao’s post? I really don’t see his post as distracting as he’s at least stating he’s for one of the primary lynches. Additionally, wouldn’t have attacking Mao been distracting behavior?
Post 541: “vs Mao; Mild agree, mild distancing”
How is this distancing from Mao? Buddying /barning is more like what he’s trying to do with the first part. Given Mao is trying to rush town to make hasty decisions, I see this more from a town mindset than distancing.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
Good. I either expect to be able to rebuttal your case of me/iPot and feel confident, or get more confused and start hatching conspiracy theories.
I hate when that happens.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
I'm bored so let's talk.
What do you think of IB? How has he evolved throughout this game? Anything stick out with him one way or the other?
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
I've read IB as town for the majority of the game. His reads (for the most part) were very similar to mine. My biggest concern with the thought of IB being scum is his push against Mao. He even kept going after I backed off which I wouldn't expect from a scum buddy.
I'm going to go raid someone on Clash of Clans. Brb
It's starting to give me pause. It happened similarly in OT2R where basically I was in Wessel/KCC's position except by myself. I kept flip-flopping teams and would question everything I knew. I ended up making the right decision that day but did read players wrong because of that position.
Kank now is giving me some reason to doubt, but his current points on iPot were terrible and few, yet idk where to really put him on the reasons why. Hopefully he provides SOLID points enough for his sake to change my mind. In the end, I stuck with the reads I felt most comfortable with.
tl;dr: I feel more unsure but still find Kank most likely to be scum
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
iPot 677: Re: IB “Leaning more scum than town” –never follows up on that thought
iPot 679: Always concerned about self image
iPot 691: Finally responds to Mao after a lot of prodding—Null conversation
EtR 697: Investigates JD—looks okay
Mao 703: Decides iPot is less scummy because of weak conversation from #691???
iPot 715: Insulted by Wessel? Sounds forced.
IB 717: Doesn’t believe Wessel
Rhand 719: Makes a good point
iPot 720: Is that cop fishing?
IB 729: Questions Mao on Wessel
IB 753: Still refuses to believe Wessel; weak comment vs Mao
Mao 763: Casual distancing Re: IB to come?
iPot 766: “Comfortable with lynching” yet never voting for anyone
iPot 801: “Will await TMCT’s case on him” rather than actually do anything constructive
TMCT 802: Calls him out on just that—not scumhunting
IB 803: Votes MTG~DDS, FoS on TMCT for going after iPot!?!?! ++++scum
IB 806: Decides to start going after Mao now?
TMCT 816: Very fascinating look at iPot—oh that whole iPot is afraid of scumbombs thing! Planning the scumbomb tactic from early on with Mao???
IB 825: Defends one scummate while attacks the other
IB/Mao 825-830: This looks like high school improv when compared to classic EtR vs Mao.
IB 830: Ends with another cheesy pic
IB 840: Playing the field—agrees that iPot looks bad along with keeping up vs Mao façade
IB 841: Another pic – Maokun 2Townz
IB 843: Curious that I’m seeing both of his scumbuddies as bad too
Kank 844: I have Mao, IB, & iPot team but don’t fully realize it
iPot 845: Responds to me saying he’s doing an awful job of appearing townie instead of TMCT’s case
TMCT 846: Calls him out on it
EtR 849-850: Good points
iPot 853: Finally posts something of note? Huzzah!
TMCT 857: More dialog w/ iPot, more mention of iPot’s scumbomb. I’m gonna call this breadscumming.
EtR 864-868: vs Mao; IB vs Mao did nothing like this
IB 877: FoS on me now? Yeah, that whole FoS thing is super-scummy.
IB 878: Trying to stall me because my two top suspects are Mao & iPot here, despite IB supposedly being against them as well.
IB 882: READ THIS POST!!! IB knows that two of the three people I listed will not flip town!!!
iPot 906: Refuses to do anything but fence sit
iPot 911: Still talking about the bomb thing? Good god man!
iPot 914: Mentions about only caring about saving own neck instead of finding scum
iPot 918: Posts immediately after Wessel and TMCT ease up on him; “overall” feel on IB and me—so lurky!
IB/Mao 925-926: Getting better but still not up to Mao vs EtR levels
Mao and IB are weak-bussing each other as iPot fence sits again.
EtR 943: Case on KCC looks town motivated
iPot 954: (Responding to prod) Gets on Mao’s bus of IB since IB said he was sick with norovirus. {I could write a whole page of WIFOM off this alone}
KCC 957: Her PBPA of IB was what helped make me so suspicious of her
Wessel 959: Much better IB analysis
IB 973: Back and hand-waves forgetting stance on KK (yet remembers so well so many other details at opportune times!)
IB 975-976: Replies to Mao & Wessel
IB 992: Sarcastic reply to being my top scumspect
IB 996: Better PBPA now of Mao—Gotta get that bus back up to speed since he’s now high on too many scum lists (not just mine)
IB 998: Happy with DDS wagon too; “Hey look! I was still against Mao back here guys!” No mention of iPot now at all
IB 1000: Ah, there is his mention of iPot now, along with me being “useless” instead of scummy. Nice.
IB 1004-1008: After me now, but kisses up with birthday nod? Huh?
IB 1012: Switches vote to MTG
Mao 1056: Big call out to scumbuddies IB & iPot
IB 1068-1069: Back on the Mao bus!
Mao 1073: Oh yeah! Our fight!
IB 1081: Wants Wessel to see me as scum in his assessment, another quick switch back to voting MTG
KCC 1085: Says exactly what Mao/IB are trying to achieve
IB 1089: Gives Mao the sign to stop now
Mega lurking from iPot
IB 1117: “Willing to count TMCT as confirmed town”
IB 1131: Changes mind real quick and votes TMCT!
Shark 1266: “IB looks town if Mao flips scum” so…EtR is chopped liver or what?
Shark 1271: Points out Mao/IB’s one-act play with each other
Shark 1296: Decides to analyze previous wagons instead of work out Mao’s lynch
IB 1311: Reminds people how much he was against Mao all along.
IB 1370: Now “super townie” and wagons MTG with less worry
Shark 1374: Ready to wagon MTG too; mentions either IB or EtR must be scum
Shark 1378: Super cheesy
Shark 1384: “Will give you other scum with DDS soon”
Shark 1391: Lazy town assessment of IB—nothing to back it up at all
IB 1399: Lazy PoE list from IB
Kank 1400: I request EtR assessment from Shark
Shark 1401: Cops out on town read now with EtR. Uh, what about your post #1374? Hoping to find something on KCC now instead? Okayyyyy…
Shark 1402: More previous vote analysis again??? “Betting IB/Kank are scum team though EtR/Kank likely” despite immediately previous post?!?! Bad idea trying to put your scum eggs in KCC’s basket and then having to backslide.
Shark 1404: iPot’s play/claim gambit?
Shark 1417:
Shark 1424: Realizes that he has to find me scummy no matter what and try to quick wagon me before everyone can actually read the game with clear eyes and see that it is IB/Shark after all. Resorts to using flavorgaming as sole reason?
“So I honestly think Kank is the remaining scum”
Great line! We have the use of “honestly” which Shark likes to use a LOT, and tries to imply that there is only one scum player left and it’s Kank. You know, ‘cuz maths and such. Why would he say “the remaining scum” then? Very simple. Because he is one, and he’s not thinking about finding two scums—just “the remaining one.”
Shark 1425: Knows exactly why Mao falseclaimed
Shark 1430: Handwaves misuse of flavor, insists it’s a title issue
IB 1431-1432: Claims, but doesn’t claim role; attacks buddy Shark now since it worked so well with Mao
Shark 1448: Case more trying to defend iPot than anything; comes to “conclusion” that I’m scum
IB 1449: “So there’s no real case on iPot” Surprise, surprise! Another “I’ve got to be honest” line.
Shark 1450: Trying to clear iPot/IB more than anything
IB 1453-Shark 1455: Trying to paint EtR and I as scum in what appears to be casual conversation
EtR 1459: Good points against Shark
Shark 1460: Cheesy reply to EtR
Shark 1467: More vs EtR and me
Shark 1479: Back to trying to poke at KCC again??? WTF???
Shark 1481: “Just had to be sure” Riiiiiight. After doing all that “iPot + IB = Good, Kank + EtR = Bad” how could he have repeatedly missed the KCC clearing AND already having asked the question before?
Yet another “Honestly thinks IB is town” line.
There you have it—Shark and IB are the scum team people.
Overall, IB has more smoking guns than iPot/Shark:
Vote infectiousbaloth
I’d be more than happy to switch my vote to iPot if so desired.
EtR will not be getting my vote. Period.
If I’m insane and jumping at shadows with wine in my belly and tinfoil on my head, then please vote for me and put me out of my misery.
Thank you.
If you guys need it too, let me know.
@Wessel: Yes generally, I like to clear townies too, as that helps reduce the odds. Looking at today when I finally have at least caught up and been able to know how the game state really is, we are in a situation where I see 2 confirmed town. That means there's a 33% chance that IB/EtR/Kank are scum. Would it not make sense for me to find one scum, thus improving the odds of finding the last town? And my reasoning for clearing IB hinges on his overall play being more town than scum. Though right now, I don't know what to think about IB's disappearing act. It really does bug me.
Also did you look at my comments Wessel? What there makes you feel that I am trying to look like I'm finding scum? Are there specifics that are, in your opinion, poor, scum-based points trying to actively discredit Kank and are just me trying to make him seem town?
One point on Kank I recall is about KCC: I never saw how KCC was cleared town and I rather cover my bases and make sure that everyone we clear has some justification. I mean, he behaved like a town and I want to make sure that he is justly so. I mean, we basically lost if he was scum, so I just want to be sure that I go into reading having him as town.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
KCC?
EtR?
Bueller?
My gut says Shark is scum, and unless I can find some spare time soon, I've really only got that to go on.
I'm here and reading. I'll let you know if/when I find anything new.
How convenient!
Please, anything!
Now where did EtR disappear to?
Now this is coming from first hand experience and from Wessel's play this game: Look at Kank's initial reactions going into that day. Now from his perspective, he just lynched someone who CC'd him, so obviously he'd be town. He does not act like a confirmed town at all. He even says this
He leaves the doubt in himself and he lets a multitude of players call him scum today, including conf. town KCC. If he really was confirmed, he would have not left doubt, would have been more adamant about his towniness and gone on from there. Yes he wasn't mod-confirmed town like Wessel or role-confirmed like myself when I played in OT2R, but still there's a level of attitude that you have when you are confirmed town, like a weight lifted off your shoulder. Now I do not get that from Kank. His notes come from desperation trying to prove his innocence, when from his view he should have already been.
That is my case for Kank being scum.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
Shark 1271: Points out Mao/IB’s one-act play with each other
Kank: You miss the context that I’ve read like nothing and as mentioned, glancing though Mao’s posts. I had yet to see much on EtR at all and skimmed and found Mao overreacting.
The second quote as attached with the first as the first’s link was bad. I take it you really didn’t read that.
******
Shark 1296: Decides to analyze previous wagons instead of work out Mao’s lynch
Let’s see. Mao was just lynched so analyzing his wagon is pointless until we know his flip. I was preparing myself to actually try to find the scumteam. What’s the problem here?
*******
Shark 1374: Ready to wagon MTG too; mentions either IB or EtR must be scum.
Yes. At this point in juncture, you were likely town and from my view it’s either IB or EtR. I had not read much yet and I trusted the reads of others who had
Shark 1378: Super cheesy
Lol. How is being cheesy scummy? I figured I’d poke at EtR to get a reaction. I’ve played with him in several games now. Each one I think he’s scum in. Gotham (I was actually SK, and he was town), Atagan (I was town and he was actually scum), and here (I’m town, and this is the towniest looking game I’ve seen, yet something feels off).
EtR seemed ready to push another mislynch so I was curious to see why, especially after little reasoning.
Shark 1384: “Will give you other scum with DDS soon”
Still hadn’t read enough.
Shark 1391: Lazy town assessment of IB—nothing to back it up at all
I was lazy and still hadn’t had time to really dig deep into this. It’s the best reasoning yet for me as scum, but really, I was focusing my attention on other stuff. As you see later, I finally had the time to dig into this game and I contributed admirably and I have no regrets on my play.
Basically, Kank expects a lot out of my initial few posts when I haven't read the game, but then later becomes more correct when it came to my quick reads on IB. That is a fair point there, but literally I still had other games on my mind/IRL. So really I had not gotten too into the game yet (unlike what you see today where I have shown up and participated fully. So I'll give him that point, but seeing the previous post, a lot of the posts he brings up are trying to do the best he can to make a scumcase on me, but I noticed he skipped out on a few posts that actually may have given him a better read or even more interesting points, specifically me calling Maokun on overreacting and getting upset over unjust lynches (happens more in scum than town).
So there we are. Expect the 2nd half by Monday night (~48 hrs from now).
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
infectiousbaloth (1): Kankennon
Not voting: Wessel, KittyCupCake, EtR, infectiousbaloth
With 6 alive, it's 4 to lynch. First LTR is on March 12.
I think IB/Shark is even more unlikely than Kank/Shark. The only player I could reasonably see as being buddies with Shark would be EtR.
So, I'm on board with a
Vote infectiousbaloth -and then Kank tomorrow.
For the record Vote Shark
We need your clarity here: IB or Shark?
I can easily switch my vote if needed.
100% agree. They've started distancing at the beginning of the day and then moved into bus mode. At least, that's the feel I'm getting.
I see votes and I need to see why
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
I don't need a speed hammer. I still haven't finished the Kank responses. Had a long day so I'll respond in the morning.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
You would have to be his scumbuddy for that to work.
So my unvote is irrelevant and i don't care if you don't believe me. I am town so deal with it.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
Dang it I missed that too. Man I am not going to scumhunt tonight. Yeeks
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
Grumpypants
Sticks and stones
May break my bones
But you fail to see
That the shark is free
Of crimes you say
He committed this day
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
If the public wills Shark's death instead, then by all means.
I am quite happy with my vote staying on IB.
You didn't realize your vote was on me? Riiiiight.
Other than the one where the basis of your case on me was flavorgaming alone?
I pointed out to you all of the other players that did not have titles.
Alright, why did you unvote me?
What votes are you seeing and why do you need to see them?
When the lynch threshhold is at three, then all it takes is one bad town vote and the two scums will slip in and end the game.
IB just has to be one of them! It boggles my mind that you guys can't see it!
I had been out all day and scanning phone and I see two votes so I unvoted to see who voted what and why.
I don't know why you are trying to rush things Kank, so let KCC and Wessel decide what to do about the LTR.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
I'd be willing to lynch Kank with you Today.
Why won't you listen?
I worked my butt off trying to join a game over 80 pages long and found behavior in Kank which by definition is not how he should have behaved as town. Look again D4 Kank. He literally just lynched a scum who cc'd him so that should make him cleared town. Why would he not act like that? Tell me how he is town from that day he is town. If you fail to see that he is blatantly obvious scum from that, lynch me because i failed from the start
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
unvote; vote shark
That's a bit of an understatement. I am absolutely not voting for Shark. -Like ever.
infectiousbaloth (1): Kankennon
Not voting: KittyCupCake, EtR, SharkFinnigan
With 6 alive, it's 4 to lynch. First LTR is on March 12.
Clarification: The LTR kicks in on March 12 at midnight Pacific.
aka 6 hours from now.