I guess you don't remember him voting me for such loose reasons. You only care what benefits you? Then pardon it off as right when that does happen?
What are you talking about? Who said I don't remember that? He's done it three times now. Thats why I ask. I also ask about thoughts on us, you included. So whats up with this pufff of misrep smoke?
Asian went off at me for making unsubstantiated claims, and then went on to do exactly that same thing himself. I lol'd a little at the blatant hypocrisy.
His self-meta does nothing to dispute my point, unless he's willing to post games that prove him right.
Until then, I'm super happy with my vote.
In Hetalia Mafia, despite my good reads early game, several players encouraged claimed vig (actually SK) Deathjoey to shoot me largely because I was lurky and claimed awkwardly during the D1 mass-claim. Theseposts were the result, and I remained frustrated by the town's stupidity until I was killed by one of the mafia's dozen or so abilities, interacting with the Community Ability which forced me to target myself. The good guys sucked, mafia won.
In WoW Mafia: Grim Batol (another D1 mass-claim game), I self-meta'd (@Artifice 101) and dismissed a terrible idea out of hand (@DRey) within two posts. WIFOM ensued, town still won.
In Hecatea Mafia, I self-meta'd some more (@MandersHex) while not actually responding to the question, in part because I couldn't really refute her statement, only her conclusion. I got vigged (by trigger-happy vezokpiraka), town still won.
In Ogre Mafia, I posted this in response to Cyan's weak attack. Eventually I was forced to claim, but I manage to convince the town of my innocence. The good guys rocked, town (and atlseal) won.
Quite possibly the best example of all: Doha Mafia.
All town games.
However, in the end, this data still doesn't conclusively prove that I am town, but it certainly puts your logic on ice.
I have color-coded noteworthy inconsistencies in Yanni's story.
#76: In his first serious post, Yanni /barns kpaca and says he'll post more later.
#103: In his next post, he quotes a ton of posts without actually saying a whole lot about any of them. He jumps on "Burstinatrix" for admitting to trying to paint iLord as scummy, and finishes by asserting that he and DRey are scumbuddies, presumably not because of any interpersonal tells, but rather because they are both individually scummy. Sure. Note the extraneous voting and unvoting that occurs.
#158: This is the first Yanni post that made me sit up straight in my chair. Immediately after Wessel backs down from leading the "Burst" wagon, DRey quits it too, providing no explanation other than to say that he is "idiot town." The posts are literally five minutes apart. Everyone should have had warning signs flashing in their head while reading this.
#166: After kpaca's #162, Yanni is reminded that he told us he was suspicious of DRey and puts his vote back on his "other scumspect." No rationale given; another red flag.
#194: A post that could be a weak attack on DJ Catchem or a weak defense of kpaca, but in actuality is a filler post of the type scum make when they are trying to look like they are reading along with the thread.
#203: When I ask him why he's voting DRey, Yanni provides this response. It seems fair, until you go back and reread DRey. DRey spends his first few posts grilling ZasZ234, and the first and only time he addresses Niv prior to Yanni's second post (in which he first claims suspicion) is in #81, where he simply asks Niv to explain his DRey vote. While DRey's attacks against Zas looked scummy, Yanni either deliberately or sloppily described Niv as the victim instead. Note that Yanni states that clearing another player based on his experience level is scummy. Also note that Yanni is clearly not reading closely.
#214×: These posts start with a reiteration of #194 but still fail to draw any conclusions regarding whether the interactions delineated point to town or to scum play for any of the players involved. They end with a reiteration that "Burst" is not a good Mafia player, and is also town, a statement that to this day boggles my mind due to its sheer illogic. Relevant posts are relevant.
#230: Finally, something resembling content! Yanni asks DJ Catchem to describe what kpaca said that makes him scummy. He finally gets his story straight re: voting DRey when explaining it to new replacement Pale Mage.
#232é: Pale Mage wants a more detailed explanation, leading to this post. The premises are valid, but the open-and-shut way Yanni presents it is troubling. In my experience, DRey has some unusual ideas about Mafia theory, but these aren't a good indicator of alignment. More on this in the future; remind me.
#246: Another space-filler. Yanni continues to weakly defend kpaca while weakly attacking Wessel this time around. I'm beginning to notice a trend.
#277: This post is only relevant due to its time stamp. Six minutes later, Archmage Eternal demands that Yanni perform the promised reread immediately.
#279ę: Eight minutes after AE's demand, Yanni complies and posts his opinion on the case. He starts by agreeing with AE, continues by saying Brinatoo's responses are "bad" and subsequently joining the wagon, then finishes by clarifying that he was confusing "character assassination" with run-of-the-mill attacks. As AE mentions (++ town points), this is an impossibly quick turnaround. It is also a very opportunistic vote given the stagnation of "Burst's" wagon.
#288: Responding to Alpha, Yanni clears "Burst" due to a combination of "sub-par responses" and the claim that he was "confused" based on "Bursts's" experience level. (#203) Responding to AE, Yanni admits that he only read the previous page. If you'll pardon my imprecise pronoun usage; this is the kind of thing you say when you post in response to another player's demands that you comment on a case you promised to comment on, not the kind of thing you say to cover your ass because you got called out on exaggerating your participation levels.
#295: I finally call out Yanni (beyond a prior FoS) for real, and this is his response. There is some justified anger, as I had glossed over Yanni's post in question. He continues by justifying himself to AE, stating that he "obviously read part of the case if [he] posted about it." A continuation of the trend of low levels of content.
#300: Yanni posts a list of ammunition I have used again him. If you'll review this PBPA, every one of those points is actually valid (with the possible exception of the meta case, which is more of a general "you are not playing a town game" vs. "you are not playing a Yanni town game"). Just because someone posts things in a numbered sequence doesn't make them any more valid.
#310: Further justification of his DRey vote in response to continuing questions from Pale Mage. Slightly out of place given his vote at the time (Brinatoo), made even more jarring by his inconsistency in clearing "Burst" in #288.
#317: Yanni encourages a "voting bloc" (scummy, amirite?) on AE for admitting to tunnel vision and further postpones his analysis of the Brinatoo wagon. Will it ever come? (Hint: We're still waiting.) Note the justification for the vote (self-admittedly weak meta case), reiterated below to Wessel.
#325Ň: Yanni trolls me and tells Wessel to "RtFT," as if AE had all but claimed scum.
#339Ś: Yanni questions Artifice 101 for altering a AE vote mid-post to vote him. But he did the same thing in his second serious post of the game (#103)! (The other color-coded points aren't as strong as the orange point [#203-#288], but they do demonstrate a pattern of inconsistency.)
#376: Yanni discredits DRey by saying that he's "obviously not reading." Yeah, because he's never been guilty of the same (#203)...
#410: Yanni fails to defend his statement in any way other than to say "RtFT" again. Remember my point about low content? This is bordering on active lurking.
#421: Yanni slaps together this pronoun-laden accusation which does nothing except demonstrate that there has been some sort of misunderstanding between DRey and himself, falling short of establishing any sort of trend which would actually point to DRey being scum. If anything, DRey is probably more sloppy as town than as scum. Not useful in the least.
#437: Yanni spins the blame for his confusing post back onto DRey, then says that it's "weird" that I started to defend him based on my (mis)interpretation of "Burst's" post. I think I've explained my stance on that particular issue to death, so I won't repeat it again.
#453: Yanni says that he was /barning Liquidity Crisis when he voted AE. But he had previously claimed to be basing the vote on a meta case/tunnel vision confession (#317). So which is it?
#508: Yanni refuses to indulge Artifice 101's question regarding the number of mafia in the game. This post is relevant because there is nothing else in it, indicating the surface-level skimming indicative of scum looking for conversation to add to that doesn't actually involve scum-hunting. Speaking of which, Artifice 101 definitely looks bad for asking the question in the first place.
And that brings us to the present.
tl;dr: Yanni is probably scum.
kpaca is probably scum if Yanni is scum.
DRey is probably town if Yanni is scum.
DJ Catchem is probably town if Yanni is scum.
Wessel is probably town if Yanni is scum.
Archmage Eternal is probably town if Yanni is scum.
(Largely independent of the above analysis, but given the snap-unvote in #158, "Burstinatrix"Dancing Mad is probably scum as well, especially if "Burst's" weak pressure against Yanni should be read as null.)
Some comments on Asian's recent posts: (sorry I haven't been as prompt with examining him - I'm about to head back to school, and my parents are moving, which means a lot of packing and not a lot of reading.)
Did you actually expect me to respond to Wrath_of_DoG's post wherein he failed to cite any evidence as to why I should be scum in this game? Get real; what a flimsy attack.
That said, it is probably true that I refused to acknowledge weak (IMO) attacks as scum in Symbiote. But as I stated before, unless someone can demonstrate that I don't do this as town, it's totally null. Spoiler alert: I know I do it as town.
I get the whole self-meta thing, but self-meta is a null-tell; anyone who's self-conscious enough to self-meta is also self-conscious enough to think to himself "I self-meta as town a lot, therefore if I self-meta and point out that trend, it will win me townie points."
The contempt in the bolded sentence also bugs me; it doesn't read at all like a townie.
Finally, while WoD's style is not nice (though let's face it, he's still trolling less than me in that post) the Symbiote argument is very applicable and Asian still hasn't addressed it. This is why the whole self-meta thing feels contrived to me - Asian seems to be far more aware of his town games than that particular scum game.
--
Which brings me to post 529. Notably, he doesn't address the many posts between these two further pushing his case. Seems too ready to ignore attacks on him.
First, we get the list of self-meta cases, which, fine, although see above. But then he feels the need to append this:
However, in the end, this data still doesn't conclusively prove that I am town, but it certainly puts your logic on ice.
I don't see why a townie would add this, especially since the self-meta argument is the only one Asian really acknowledges
Asian's case on Yanni seems pretty reductive - most of his evidence against Yanni boils down to "Yanni isn't helpful/is a hypocrite/etc." Which isn't necessarily useless, but I see nowhere in the case where he addresses my point, which was that Yanni appears to just be a bad townie. (The kind of thing necessary to distinguish between, say, Brinatoo and AE.) Care to weigh in on that, Asian?
kpaca is probably scum if Yanni is scum.
DRey is probably town if Yanni is scum.
DJ Catchem is probably town if Yanni is scum.
Wessel is probably town if Yanni is scum.
Archmage Eternal is probably town if Yanni is scum.
(Largely independent of the above analysis, but given the snap-unvote in #158, "Burstinatrix"Dancing Mad is probably scum as well, especially if "Burst's" weak pressure against Yanni should be read as null.)
Interesting how these premises are just thrown out there as fact. So, if Yanni is scum, kpaca is also scum, because Yanni defended kpaca weakly? And all the people he attacked are town? Really?
What bothers me most about this is that this looks suspiciously like this post in Symbiote he made shortly before they lynched him.
Finally, the post as a whole feels very halfhearted throughout, from the addendum to the self-meta list, to the weakness of the Yanni case, to the many "probably"s.
Probably backed up by some combination of Zas/Drey/Wessel/Vezokprak
Your thoughts LC?
Well, my opinion of Asian's pretty clear.
I thought ced looked okay - asked a lot of questions, at least - but these past two posts have been pretty awful. This line -
I don't agree with it, but I see where it's coming from.
is a classic scum dodge - "He's wrong, but he's a townie".
I've thought Artifice has been doing fine. The random conversation starter was ridiculous, but I don't see why a scum would ask that question, unless he thinks he could draw out neutral scum somehow; even that's flimsy. It reads to me like a well-meaning-but-misguided fishing expedition. Other than that, his posts have seemed pretty reasonable.
As for the other four... Zas and Wessel I'm keeping in the "I'm not sure whether their bad play is genuine or not, so I'm tabling them until I have more evidence" pile (formerly known as the "idiot pile").
Looking at recent games, I recognize DRey at least is experienced enough to not qualify. I got bogged down in AE to the point where I didn't read much of DRey's posts in Bad Claims for comparison, but I think I'm going to stick with my leaning-town judgment for now, pending further review.
And vezok is lurking hard, and if the mod wasn't already suffering I'd tell him to poke the former harder.
--
If you have any cases on the five who aren't Asian or ced, kpaca, I'd love to see them.
That's a bad paraphrasing - I'm suspicious of Niv, and that should be clear from my previous post.
Try "I don't agree with it, but I don't find it scummy."
Oh, I thought you were talking about me there. Still, that's a ridiculous number of qualifiers; it suggests a severe unwillingness to give Niv townie points.
He feels sketchy to me. His reads to display the confidence I expect from him. Contrast him with Pale Mage, and you'll see one of the play of the year winner's isn't playing quite like the other.
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Iso has agreed to replace in for Gigas1. The last outstanding replacement is now filled. Prods will be going out (except to Wessel who already informed me of his limited access.)
He feels sketchy to me. His reads to display the confidence I expect from him. Contrast him with Pale Mage, and you'll see one of the play of the year winner's isn't playing quite like the other.
This should read as "His reads do not display......)
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Just typed up a huge post re: DRey which a) I don't like the structure of and b) just seems way too freaking long.
I would be much happier with DRey's answers to me if he had less detail. That would make more sense. "I saw what I thought scummy and said DIE DIE DIE, plus I hate RVS" would be awesome, along with a side of "I didn't really think about that". I think he's trying to give me the "right" answers instead of honest ones.
Some of his answers are inconsistent with the facts, and his sense of humor seems to be defined by "whatever will fit my story best". And he's far too trusting.
I'll demonstrate the above in a future post. At this point I'm willing to lynch DRey or Yanni (who has seemed to vanish since I pressed the PAUSE button, but there's some other things I want to look over first (including but not limited to the topics I've been ignoring while I chewed on DRey for the past week), and we've got other folks coming in to catch up.
Pale Mage (r. dropkickdude): DKD didn't post anything. Pale Mage is always going to be very difficult to read, however. One slight criticism would be his line of questioning on DRey culminating in 434 i.e. why DRey thinks ZasZ is at fault for the softclaim but not me (don't think it holds merit as a point because DRey did ask me if I took him seriously, which would naturally preclude any accusation). But, yeh, can't really comment as of yet.
Verdict: Unsure.
Oh, this is wrong.
Number One: DRey responded to you, sir. There's no indication that DRey would have engaged you in any way otherwise, and in fact he consistently refers to being surprised by your reaction to ZasZ and how different it was than his own, but without a trace of suspicion (which is the entire point...ZasZ is scum but you are naive for a veteran to hear DRey tell it). Even his question to you takes that into account if you read it at face value.
Number Two: His question to you was in response to your question to him, which is a minor liar's tell. Your question was probing; his was defensive.
Number Three: You will never be sure (unless you already know).
Your post acknowledges his suspicions of Burstinatrix were sound, but in the most grudging manner imaginable. Having sound suspicions is worthy of townie points, usually.
As for the other four... Zas and Wessel I'm keeping in the "I'm not sure whether their bad play is genuine or not, so I'm tabling them until I have more evidence" pile (formerly known as the "idiot pile").
Looking at recent games, I recognize DRey at least is experienced enough to not qualify. I got bogged down in AE to the point where I didn't read much of DRey's posts in Bad Claims for comparison, but I think I'm going to stick with my leaning-town judgment for now, pending further review.
Qualify for what?
Also, the idiot and the idiot thing is not funny you know. I really want to play this game, and I even think you a valuable townie for us (at least you work hard despite being and *******). So can you please stop this once and for all?
Currently trying to chow down some AI meta to better understand this case, though it's taking some time.
Why don't you start trying to follow the thread before taking an impossible job like that (how many games does Asian have?).
Also why don't you give us the link of the posts you are talking about? instead of saying "on post #666" just put the link, because otherwise none is actually going to search for it and your whole point will be missed.
Probably backed up by some combination of Zas/Drey/Wessel/Vezokprak
Your thoughts LC?
eeeeverybody is scuuuum!1!1!
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Large games D1 are so convoluted and boring, henceforth so many "detached" players, lurkers and replacements, I say we all give a top3 scum list (with reasoning) and work from there.
Let me start.
Brinatoo (Bad play all around, newbie, maybe first time as scum?)
Zas (scared scum is scared) Burst DM is a pretty good player and erased all bad feelings I had about Burst already, just need to be a little more active.
Kpaca (guy is all over the place, looking like a hungry beast trying to latch onto anyone)
Now the players I don't want to lynch
Yanni (that's the Yanni we all know and love, probably town no matter how impossible it may look like)
Asian (Not really seeing anything against him, he's too strong of an analyst to die early, he's always vigged/SKlized/Nkled on N1 anyway :p)
AE (a mixture of Asian and Yanni reasons)
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Wow I read that too. I was looking through the council thread regarding Naka and saw all Pinks posts and forgot all about the replacement request.
What are you talking about? Who said I don't remember that? He's done it three times now. Thats why I ask. I also ask about thoughts on us, you included. So whats up with this pufff of misrep smoke?
He had some silly interactions with Burstinatrix early on that suggested such a qualification. It's possible he's had some better posts more recently that I missed, however. I'll go check.
Qualify for what?
The, er, list.
Also, the idiot and the idiot thing is not funny you know. I really want to play this game, and I even think you a valuable townie for us (at least you work hard despite being and *******). So can you please stop this once and for all?
Oh, MTGS, you're no fun.
Fine, fine. No more idiots. I'll just call them "postponements". That ok?
EBWODP: Sorry, forgot to add my tidbit towards AE. Vezok had done a vote post. And you asked if he had anything to add on us 3. But what you didn't include is "another vote post." That's why I said you weren't acknowledging his past vote posts. Why did you not remember to include "another" in that line of thought. Are you just trying to convict people?
ced is giving me bad vibes. When I get home I'll check some of the games I played with him. I remember he has a very different scum game than town game.
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Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Burst DM is a pretty good player and erased all bad feelings I had about Burst already, just need to be a little more active.
This makes very little sense. It's one thing to feel better about a replacement's play, but why should that completely erase everything you didn't like about his predecessor? Burst still did the things that you did not like. I am not ready to immediately lynch DM since Burst was a known "MTGS convict", but I still take his actions with wariness.
ced is giving me bad vibes. When I get home I'll check some of the games I played with him. I remember he has a very different scum game than town game.
Translation - "I was told to post, so I skimmed the last page and saw that ced was under some fire and added some weak kindling."
Essentially, this Nakamura and his numerous off-shoots has been here and there for a decent while, so I assumed he would be more experienced just in terms of raw time than Burst, who I would have been playing with for the first time (I believe).
But essentially it is inconclusive. Naka/Burst could have just been having a row, or could have legitimately been radiating accurate scum tells.
I suppose the only appropriate action is to allow DM to lend more clarity to the role's alignment through his play. Which means a stay of execution for now.
Unvote.
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Quote from TheFooFish »
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
Scummy action. kpaca's vote was there just to show he thought it was a bad action and to pressurize artifice a little. But for vezok to vote is overdone. What's the difference between one or two unsubstantiated votes? One scum.
I had a feeling before that vezok was scum, but this strengthens my belief. Especially because vezok is lurking to the extreme, and only comes back to vote.
Top 3 scumlist including four people? Well done!
You included Dancing Mad, why? You say he removed all bad feeling you had about Burst, why then still see him as scum?
I'm not that naive, Burst was obviously faking his newbiness, knowing he was much more experienced than he was letting us notice gave me a real bad feeling. So I searched for another one to put on my list while I give more time to DM.
Why do you feel the need to defend Yanni on the argument 'he is probably town no matter how impossible it may look like'? That is basically giving Yanni a free pass, claiming he's town even if he acts scum. Somehow that does not compute in my mind.
You got it exactly right young grasshopper, I want to give Yanni a free pass, I know it's strange, but I've seen too many strange things on my ancient life. :monty:
This makes very little sense. It's one thing to feel better about a replacement's play, but why should that completely erase everything you didn't like about his predecessor? Burst still did the things that you did not like. I am not ready to immediately lynch DM since Burst was a known "MTGS convict", but I still take his actions with wariness. I suppose the only appropriate action is to allow DM to lend more clarity to the role's alignment through his play. Which means a stay of execution for now.
I feel the same dude, see the bolded.
@guys top3 scum please, I'm renewed as the game that was stressing me the most is over. gogogo for great justice and everlasting peace.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Only the Doha link is even relevant to my line of attack which was that you flailed around helplessly, crying at the injustice of people voting for you without making cases in Symbiote, as scum.
You were also a LOT more polite about it in Symbiote than you were in Doha.
BTW: I wouldn't have even pressed this attack had you not gotten so angrily butthurt at the implication of it. I don't actually place much stock in meta arguments.
Only the Doha link is even relevant to my line of attack which was that you flailed around helplessly, crying at the injustice of people voting for you without making cases in Symbiote, as scum.
You were also a LOT more polite about it in Symbiote than you were in Doha.
BTW: I wouldn't have even pressed this attack had you not gotten so angrily butthurt at the implication of it. I don't actually place much stock in meta arguments.
Unvote
Are you actually saying "he's still flailing scum, but I'm unvoting for no reason at all." I think I misunderstanding something.
Also top3 scum please.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Are you actually saying "he's still flailing scum, but I'm unvoting for no reason at all." I think I misunderstanding something.
I think you are, too. I'm not saying that he's flailing in this game, but that I noticed a few similar patterns between this game and Symbiote - but I don't think it's really damning enough for a serious vote. I will be keeping my eye on him, however.
It's too early in the game for anyone to have 3 real scum reads.
Right now, the only people I could possibly see as scum are AE, for skimming the thread so blatantly, or AI, for reacting so badly to my original argument. lolmeta. Neither of those are a strong enough read for a vote right now, though.
I don't like how Asian is getting all butthurt about people not making proper attacks on him - He did the EXACT same thing as mafia in a game I don't remember the name of at the current time, but he was lynched Day One.
In fact, Unvote, Vote AsianInvasion.
Quote from AI »
There is literally no appropriate response to this false dichotomy other than to say, "Nuh-uh," which would be pointless. If there is a question for me or an accusation that can be backed up, I will respond. Mudslinging is to be ignored.
Just for the record, my statement there wasn't supposed to get a response from AI. It was directed towards everyone else, to start a discussion to see if everyone agreed with my interpretation of the situation. There's not much he could have said in response.
I'm kind of concerned with the language of "false dichotomy" and "mudslinging" in this post, however.
@AI: What is your opinion of me at this point?
Quote from DJ »
FoS LC
Reads like "I don't want you guys analyzing my meta."
vote AsianInvasion
Just after getting called out for dismissing attacks on him by calling them bad instead of answering them, and he calls WoD's assessment mudslinging and refuses to answer to it.
Also , I spent two posts in a row explaining how I had issues generating reads on the parts of the game I missed, and he tells me I'm fence-sitting. I can't be any more clear there, and I tried to explain it TWICE. This instead of honestly answering the cases against him.
Man, so many bad votes on AI so fast makes me worried.
Quote from Ced »
1. In 29, he makes the assumption that ZasZ is talking about DRey (not so bad in itself), then suggests that this is suspicious with a smiley (a bit unusual - what was actually suspicious about ZasZ's posting?). Also, why did iLord ignore Niv actually explicitly voting DRey for that reason? Seems overly selective.
Zas attacking DRey for DRey's #10 would be fairly unusual, since it was fairly obvious that DRey couldn't that Zas was joking. Niv's vote in #16 was for reactions.
Quote from Ced »
3. iLord's response to ZasZ in 85 is unusual. I don't like that false dichotomy, and I find iLord's motives unclear here also. He presents ZasZ's actions as "concerning", that he's "not helping the town", "has a fear of committal", etc, all sorts of thing that suggest he is suspicious of ZasZ and is probing him. Yet at the end he "urge[s] [ZasZ] to put this matter to a close", which implies he's not really looking at a suspect here, merely wanting to get the name out of ZasZ and move on.
Bolded is accurate.
Quote from Ced »
4. In 195, iLord moves to vote to Brinatoo. I don't really like his case. The reason (Brinatoo's "slip") just isn't very strong - I see how it might cause concern, but it just doesn't seem anything more than a minor issue. He even places the vote despite suggesting that kpaca's defense of the existing Brinatoo case has merit. Scum like finding their own angles to jump onto wagons, since it lets them support wagons without looking like they're simply barning, and also because it keeps their options open should the wagon take an unusual turn. The fact that iLord seems to use a weak point as his entire case really looks a lot like he actually wants to just vote in support of the existing case without looking like he is actively supporting
Obviously, I don't agree that my point was weak. You can have mountains of text based on fallacious arguments that the target has made, but at the end of the day it's the little slips that reveal the target's mindset that matter. None of the Brinatoo case until then (or after that point) had merit because they focused on how his arguments don't make sense and how he's not contributing to the game, neither of which really are exclusive to a scum mindset. His mistake that I outlined in #195 point out that his reads aren't consistent in his head, which is considerably more likely for scum than town.
Quote from Ced »
it. 258 even suggests iLord doesn't see his point as that strong.
I don't see why this is cause for concern. An irrefutably damning point isn't a mandatory prerequisite to an inquiry.
Quote from Ced »
Here, he's talking about Brinatoo's vote on AE in 316. I feel this statement, however, is completely false and just iLord taking the opportunity to paint Brinatoo's AE vote as bad. For a start, it is taking the vote somewhat out of context. Saying that AE could be "anybody" isn't really true, seeing as L_C's case that Brin barned is based on AE's weak case on Brin himself. Also, the whole thing suggests that Brin's been just attacking anyone all game - also not true. Nobody had even mentioned Gigas before he placed his one other vote, and, aside from him showing (much more reasoned-out and once again original) suspicion of Niv, he's not really attacked any other wagoners back AFAICT, merely defended himself. So, he's hardly jumping on anyone. iLord then has some nerve to make the very strong assertion that "this kid's scum" after that unsubstantiated accusation.
Verdict: Scum.
"Jump on anyone" doesn't literally mean attack random players. I was indicating that Brinatoo was eager to attack any convenient player to ease the pressure on himself. AE's case was gathering steam and Brinatoo voted for the sake of self-preservation.
I will concede that I was a little single-minded in calling him scum for it. Self-preservation is not an unusual newb town response to pressure.
Quote from Wessel »
Anyway, I am also currently of the belief that Asian cannot be scum if Yanni is scum, due to this pbpa.
That's a foolhardy assumption: I could easily see AI putting in the effort as either alignment.
======================
I need to do something along the lines of what Ced is doing.
I get the whole self-meta thing, but self-meta is a null-tell; anyone who's self-conscious enough to self-meta is also self-conscious enough to think to himself "I self-meta as town a lot, therefore if I self-meta and point out that trend, it will win me townie points."
"Yo dawg, I herd you liek talkin' 'bout yo'self..."
In all seriousness, WoD brought up a point based solely on a meta argument, so it was up to me to prove that his attack doesn't hold water. It's not like someone else knows my meta better.
Finally, while WoD's style is not nice (though let's face it, he's still trolling less than me in that post) the Symbiote argument is very applicable and Asian still hasn't addressed it. This is why the whole self-meta thing feels contrived to me - Asian seems to be far more aware of his town games than that particular scum game.
I spent the entire first part of #529 demonstrating that I ignore bad attacks as town, which is exactly what Wrath_of_DoG was interested in (note his subsequent unvote). Pay attention.
Which brings me to post 529. Notably, he doesn't address the many posts between these two further pushing his case. Seems too ready to ignore attacks on him.
Uhh...define "many posts." I see Arty and DJ Catchem confirming their votes and Dancing Mad (predictably) calling me scum (and we're still waiting on that "next post" explaining why).
I don't see why a townie would add this, especially since the self-meta argument is the only one Asian really acknowledges
I'm being perfectly forthright; players shouldn't clear one another based on the refutation of poor logic. I'm trying to get the town to play optimally rather than lazily, because lazy towns lose.
Asian's case on Yanni seems pretty reductive - most of his evidence against Yanni boils down to "Yanni isn't helpful/is a hypocrite/etc." Which isn't necessarily useless, but I see nowhere in the case where he addresses my point, which was that Yanni appears to just be a bad townie. (The kind of thing necessary to distinguish between, say, Brinatoo and AE.) Care to weigh in on that, Asian?
Well, I've gone over all of Yanni's posts here. If you have the time to devote to analyzing Yanni's posts from a town game and demonstrate the same trend, I'll be glad to have a look-see.
Interesting how these premises are just thrown out there as fact. So, if Yanni is scum, kpaca is also scum, because Yanni defended kpaca weakly? And all the people he attacked are town? Really?
Maybe those judgments are a bit hasty. I'd certainly put more stock in them depending on how the players mentioned would react to a Yanni lynch wagon.
Finally, the post as a whole feels very halfhearted throughout, from the addendum to the self-meta list, to the weakness of the Yanni case, to the many "probably"s.
I figured that I should be more conservative given my (over)zealous approach to the "Burstinatrix" wagon. Better to let the data speak than make claims I can't back up.
Just for the record, my statement there wasn't supposed to get a response from AI. It was directed towards everyone else, to start a discussion to see if everyone agreed with my interpretation of the situation. There's not much he could have said in response.
I'm kind of concerned with the language of "false dichotomy" and "mudslinging" in this post, however.
@AI: What is your opinion of me at this point?
I still think you're town, but your attack was totally unfair.
I need to do something along the lines of what Ced is doing.
It would be great if everyone would, but I doubt more than a handful of players are willing to put forth that kind of effort.
Now that Ender's Mafia is over, I suggest that everyone go and read up on DRey and Artifice 101's scum meta. Specifically, we see a focus on town-leading from DRey and zealousness juxtaposed with lethargy and/or "playing dumb" from A101. So far, neither player is showing the same tells (granted, this is a much larger game, and some of A101's play may be attributed to the uphill battle the scum faced in the endgame), though I see scummy behavior in some of DRey's snap-reads and A101's vote-nudging/setup-gaming. I'm keeping an eye on both for now.
For comparison purposes, there's also Bad Claims Mafia (DRey) and 300 Mafia (Artifice). I haven't read up to this point, ftr, just pretending like I'm contributing something at this point.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Now that Ender's Mafia is over, I suggest that everyone go and read up on DRey and Artifice 101's scum meta. Specifically, we see a focus on town-leading from DRey and zealousness juxtaposed with lethargy and/or "playing dumb" from A101. So far, neither player is showing the same tells (granted, this is a much larger game, and some of A101's play may be attributed to the uphill battle the scum faced in the endgame), though I see scummy behavior in some of DRey's snap-reads and A101's vote-nudging/setup-gaming. I'm keeping an eye on both for now.
Because I didn't game the set-up in NGE or WoW or CCMV (two of which you Modded BTW) or every other town game I've ever played here? Set-up gaming is what I do as town and you know it.
Damnit guys, AsianI is scum. The fact that he's trying to turn you on to the idea of me as scum based on a recently completed scum game is turning into my new favorite scum tell. I just need to get the players commiting it lynched to prove my theory.
Unvote; Vote AsianI. No, this isn' an OMGUS vote. This is my genuine read of AsianI and others should join me. His defense when pressed has been lackluster and he needs to be lynched.
For comparison purposes, there's also Bad Claims Mafia (DRey) and 300 Mafia (Artifice). I haven't read up to this point, ftr, just pretending like I'm contributing something at this point.
Hey, kid, get off my lawn.
Also, please give the 500ish post game a read before you "help".
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This makes very little sense. It's one thing to feel better about a replacement's play, but why should that completely erase everything you didn't like about his predecessor? Burst still did the things that you did not like. I am not ready to immediately lynch DM since Burst was a known "MTGS convict", but I still take his actions with wariness.
Translation - "I was told to post, so I skimmed the last page and saw that ced was under some fire and added some weak kindling."
Answered this a bit here:
But essentially it is inconclusive. Naka/Burst could have just been having a row, or could have legitimately been radiating accurate scum tells.
I suppose the only appropriate action is to allow DM to lend more clarity to the role's alignment through his play. Which means a stay of execution for now.
Unvote.
Yeah.
Lunar Hail Storm that fell a tree.
Crazy ****.
I need to reread this game, will post when my real internet is back up.
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Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
scumbag
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I still think you're town, but your attack was totally unfair.
"Unfair" is an odd term to use. Could you elaborate on what you mean by it?
Quote from AsianInvasion »
It would be great if everyone would, but I doubt more than a handful of players are willing to put forth that kind of effort.
I doubt that I"ll find time to do one before today's lynch, since I'm going to have to do a reread after the flip anyways and I'd rather not do two rereads in what could be short succession.
Also the thread is dominated by so many arguments that make it absolutely impossible to discern scum. Arguing with a player is the worst way to generate useful reactions - both players eventually devolve to focusing on winning the argument which results in behavior that is indistinguishable with regards to alignment. It makes it really hard to dig through everything to get to the parts that matter.
Quote from Wessel »
Me too, I said I cannot believe Asian and Yanni to be of the same alignment. I currently believe Yanni to be more likely scum than Asian, therefore Asian would then not be scum according to that reasoning. But the fact that I see Asian more likely than Yanni to be town (or third party?) does not mean he is off my scum list. If you understand what I mean. Otherwise I'll explain it some more.
I'll elaborate on my criticism - I could easily see scumAI taking the effort to make the case against scumYanni. AsianInvasion is not one to shy away such travails.
Because I didn't game the set-up in NGE or WoW or CCMV (two of which you Modded BTW) or every other town game I've ever played here? Set-up gaming is what I do as town and you know it.[/quote]Self-meta is an even worse defence than normal meta is as an attack. It's WIFOM as hell, and doesn't make you look good at all.
Damnit guys, AsianI is scum. The fact that he's trying to turn you on to the idea of me as scum based on a recently completed scum game is turning into my new favorite scum tell. I just need to get the players commiting it lynched to prove my theory.
Unvote; Vote AsianI. No, this isn't an OMGUS vote. This is my genuine read of AsianI and others should join me. His defense when pressed has been lackluster and he needs to be lynched.
You're sounding awfully desperate here. Why exactly does AsianInvasion need to be lynched so badly?
Your certainty here is making me rethink all my suspicions of him.
Explain to me why tunneling is so bad it has to be scum?
Why exactly does AsianInvasion need to be lynched so badly?
I'm looking forward to this reply also.
I see no reason why Brinatoo shouldn't be lynched other than if its Yanni. My reread of AI became nonexistent over the weekend as did a lot of things. Looking at the cases on him.
No. The 17th is rolling around, then I will improve.
I guess you don't remember him voting me for such loose reasons. You only care what benefits you? Then pardon it off as right when that does happen?
Wow I read that too. I was looking through the council thread regarding Naka and saw all Pinks posts and forgot all about the replacement request.
What are you talking about? Who said I don't remember that? He's done it three times now. Thats why I ask. I also ask about thoughts on us, you included. So whats up with this pufff of misrep smoke?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
My internet got taken out in the storm
scumbag
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However, in the end, this data still doesn't conclusively prove that I am town, but it certainly puts your logic on ice.
"Burstinatrix"Dancing Mad is probably scum as well, especially if "Burst's" weak pressure against Yanni should be read as null.)Click here.
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First, post 498:
Implying Artifice is shoving through a bad case without addressing that fact directly. Kinda shifty.
I get the whole self-meta thing, but self-meta is a null-tell; anyone who's self-conscious enough to self-meta is also self-conscious enough to think to himself "I self-meta as town a lot, therefore if I self-meta and point out that trend, it will win me townie points."
The contempt in the bolded sentence also bugs me; it doesn't read at all like a townie.
Finally, while WoD's style is not nice (though let's face it, he's still trolling less than me in that post) the Symbiote argument is very applicable and Asian still hasn't addressed it. This is why the whole self-meta thing feels contrived to me - Asian seems to be far more aware of his town games than that particular scum game.
--
Which brings me to post 529. Notably, he doesn't address the many posts between these two further pushing his case. Seems too ready to ignore attacks on him.
First, we get the list of self-meta cases, which, fine, although see above. But then he feels the need to append this:
I don't see why a townie would add this, especially since the self-meta argument is the only one Asian really acknowledges
Asian's case on Yanni seems pretty reductive - most of his evidence against Yanni boils down to "Yanni isn't helpful/is a hypocrite/etc." Which isn't necessarily useless, but I see nowhere in the case where he addresses my point, which was that Yanni appears to just be a bad townie. (The kind of thing necessary to distinguish between, say, Brinatoo and AE.) Care to weigh in on that, Asian?
And his conclusion from all that?
All that prelude for a "probably scum"? Uh-huh.
Interesting how these premises are just thrown out there as fact. So, if Yanni is scum, kpaca is also scum, because Yanni defended kpaca weakly? And all the people he attacked are town? Really?
What bothers me most about this is that this looks suspiciously like this post in Symbiote he made shortly before they lynched him.
Finally, the post as a whole feels very halfhearted throughout, from the addendum to the self-meta list, to the weakness of the Yanni case, to the many "probably"s.
I'm satisfied with this wagon.
Vote AsianInvasion
Holy qualifiers Batman.
Probably backed up by some combination of Zas/Drey/Wessel/Vezokprak
Your thoughts LC?
Well, my opinion of Asian's pretty clear.
I thought ced looked okay - asked a lot of questions, at least - but these past two posts have been pretty awful. This line -
is a classic scum dodge - "He's wrong, but he's a townie".
I've thought Artifice has been doing fine. The random conversation starter was ridiculous, but I don't see why a scum would ask that question, unless he thinks he could draw out neutral scum somehow; even that's flimsy. It reads to me like a well-meaning-but-misguided fishing expedition. Other than that, his posts have seemed pretty reasonable.
As for the other four... Zas and Wessel I'm keeping in the "I'm not sure whether their bad play is genuine or not, so I'm tabling them until I have more evidence" pile (formerly known as the "idiot pile").
Looking at recent games, I recognize DRey at least is experienced enough to not qualify. I got bogged down in AE to the point where I didn't read much of DRey's posts in Bad Claims for comparison, but I think I'm going to stick with my leaning-town judgment for now, pending further review.
And vezok is lurking hard, and if the mod wasn't already suffering I'd tell him to poke the former harder.
--
If you have any cases on the five who aren't Asian or ced, kpaca, I'd love to see them.
Oh, I thought you were talking about me there. Still, that's a ridiculous number of qualifiers; it suggests a severe unwillingness to give Niv townie points.
Why is Ced on this list? Did I miss something? Other than light posting, he seems pretty well-though out in what he says.
--->DJ
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
This should read as "His reads do not display......)
I would be much happier with DRey's answers to me if he had less detail. That would make more sense. "I saw what I thought scummy and said DIE DIE DIE, plus I hate RVS" would be awesome, along with a side of "I didn't really think about that". I think he's trying to give me the "right" answers instead of honest ones.
Some of his answers are inconsistent with the facts, and his sense of humor seems to be defined by "whatever will fit my story best". And he's far too trusting.
I'll demonstrate the above in a future post. At this point I'm willing to lynch DRey or Yanni (who has seemed to vanish since I pressed the PAUSE button, but there's some other things I want to look over first (including but not limited to the topics I've been ignoring while I chewed on DRey for the past week), and we've got other folks coming in to catch up.
Oh, this is wrong.
Number One: DRey responded to you, sir. There's no indication that DRey would have engaged you in any way otherwise, and in fact he consistently refers to being surprised by your reaction to ZasZ and how different it was than his own, but without a trace of suspicion (which is the entire point...ZasZ is scum but you are naive for a veteran to hear DRey tell it). Even his question to you takes that into account if you read it at face value.
Number Two: His question to you was in response to your question to him, which is a minor liar's tell. Your question was probing; his was defensive.
Number Three: You will never be sure (unless you already know).
Your post acknowledges his suspicions of Burstinatrix were sound, but in the most grudging manner imaginable. Having sound suspicions is worthy of townie points, usually.
Qualify for what?
Also, the idiot and the
idiotthing is not funny you know. I really want to play this game, and I even think you a valuable townie for us (at least you work hard despite being and *******). So can you please stop this once and for all?Why don't you start trying to follow the thread before taking an impossible job like that (how many games does Asian have?).
Also why don't you give us the link of the posts you are talking about? instead of saying "on post #666" just put the link, because otherwise none is actually going to search for it and your whole point will be missed.
Well, at least he and
BurstDM certainly aren't scumbuddies.eeeeverybody is scuuuum!1!1!
-----------
Large games D1 are so convoluted and boring, henceforth so many "detached" players, lurkers and replacements, I say we all give a top3 scum list (with reasoning) and work from there.
Let me start.
Brinatoo (Bad play all around, newbie, maybe first time as scum?)
Zas (scared scum is scared)
BurstDM is a pretty good player and erased all bad feelings I had about Burst already, just need to be a little more active.Kpaca (guy is all over the place, looking like a hungry beast trying to latch onto anyone)
Now the players I don't want to lynch
Yanni (that's the Yanni we all know and love, probably town no matter how impossible it may look like)
Asian (Not really seeing anything against him, he's too strong of an analyst to die early, he's always vigged/SKlized/Nkled on N1 anyway :p)
AE (a mixture of Asian and Yanni reasons)
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Well this is frustrating, stating my play is bad all around, without describing how it is. And I replaced into a scum slot in Basic #53
Hey Iso, Did you replace into scum?
He had some silly interactions with Burstinatrix early on that suggested such a qualification. It's possible he's had some better posts more recently that I missed, however. I'll go check.
The, er, list.
Oh, MTGS, you're no fun.
Fine, fine. No more idiots. I'll just call them "postponements". That ok?
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I'll catch up as soon as I can. Any questions of me that I can answer when I get around to it?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Those lunar storms are BRUTAL.
This makes very little sense. It's one thing to feel better about a replacement's play, but why should that completely erase everything you didn't like about his predecessor? Burst still did the things that you did not like. I am not ready to immediately lynch DM since Burst was a known "MTGS convict", but I still take his actions with wariness.
Translation - "I was told to post, so I skimmed the last page and saw that ced was under some fire and added some weak kindling."
Answered this a bit here:
But essentially it is inconclusive. Naka/Burst could have just been having a row, or could have legitimately been radiating accurate scum tells.
I suppose the only appropriate action is to allow DM to lend more clarity to the role's alignment through his play. Which means a stay of execution for now.
Unvote.
Have you played with Vezok before?
Names please.
I'm not that naive, Burst was obviously faking his newbiness, knowing he was much more experienced than he was letting us notice gave me a real bad feeling. So I searched for another one to put on my list while I give more time to DM.
That's the point, I believe them to be townie.
You got it exactly right young grasshopper, I want to give Yanni a free pass, I know it's strange, but I've seen too many strange things on my ancient life. :monty:
I feel the same dude, see the bolded.
@guys top3 scum please, I'm renewed as the game that was stressing me the most is over. gogogo for great justice and everlasting peace.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
You were also a LOT more polite about it in Symbiote than you were in Doha.
BTW: I wouldn't have even pressed this attack had you not gotten so angrily butthurt at the implication of it. I don't actually place much stock in meta arguments.
Unvote
Are you actually saying "he's still flailing scum, but I'm unvoting for no reason at all." I think I misunderstanding something.
Also top3 scum please.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Right now, the only people I could possibly see as scum are AE, for skimming the thread so blatantly, or AI, for reacting so badly to my original argument. lolmeta. Neither of those are a strong enough read for a vote right now, though.
Just for the record, my statement there wasn't supposed to get a response from AI. It was directed towards everyone else, to start a discussion to see if everyone agreed with my interpretation of the situation. There's not much he could have said in response.
I'm kind of concerned with the language of "false dichotomy" and "mudslinging" in this post, however.
@AI: What is your opinion of me at this point?
Man, so many bad votes on AI so fast makes me worried.
Zas attacking DRey for DRey's #10 would be fairly unusual, since it was fairly obvious that DRey couldn't that Zas was joking. Niv's vote in #16 was for reactions.
Bolded is accurate.
Obviously, I don't agree that my point was weak. You can have mountains of text based on fallacious arguments that the target has made, but at the end of the day it's the little slips that reveal the target's mindset that matter. None of the Brinatoo case until then (or after that point) had merit because they focused on how his arguments don't make sense and how he's not contributing to the game, neither of which really are exclusive to a scum mindset. His mistake that I outlined in #195 point out that his reads aren't consistent in his head, which is considerably more likely for scum than town.
I don't see why this is cause for concern. An irrefutably damning point isn't a mandatory prerequisite to an inquiry.
"Jump on anyone" doesn't literally mean attack random players. I was indicating that Brinatoo was eager to attack any convenient player to ease the pressure on himself. AE's case was gathering steam and Brinatoo voted for the sake of self-preservation.
I will concede that I was a little single-minded in calling him scum for it. Self-preservation is not an unusual newb town response to pressure.
That's a foolhardy assumption: I could easily see AI putting in the effort as either alignment.
======================
I need to do something along the lines of what Ced is doing.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
I wasn't trying to be subtle about it, just snarky. It's pretty obvious that badgering players into a vote when they aren't ready is scum play.
"Yo dawg, I herd you liek talkin' 'bout yo'self..."
In all seriousness, WoD brought up a point based solely on a meta argument, so it was up to me to prove that his attack doesn't hold water. It's not like someone else knows my meta better.
IIRC, you said yourself that we've never played together before. (Or am I wrongly attributing that comment, when it was only made to Artifice 101?)
I spent the entire first part of #529 demonstrating that I ignore bad attacks as town, which is exactly what Wrath_of_DoG was interested in (note his subsequent unvote). Pay attention.
Uhh...define "many posts." I see Arty and DJ Catchem confirming their votes and Dancing Mad (predictably) calling me scum (and we're still waiting on that "next post" explaining why).
I'm being perfectly forthright; players shouldn't clear one another based on the refutation of poor logic. I'm trying to get the town to play optimally rather than lazily, because lazy towns lose.
Well, I've gone over all of Yanni's posts here. If you have the time to devote to analyzing Yanni's posts from a town game and demonstrate the same trend, I'll be glad to have a look-see.
Gotta account for the possibility you mentioned above. I'd still lynch him, but it's not an open-and-shut case.
Maybe those judgments are a bit hasty. I'd certainly put more stock in them depending on how the players mentioned would react to a Yanni lynch wagon.
For clarity's sake, you may want to quote that one for reference, so we all know what you're talking about.
I figured that I should be more conservative given my (over)zealous approach to the "Burstinatrix" wagon. Better to let the data speak than make claims I can't back up.
27, including Ender's Mafia.
It's almost as if you're afraid to go toe-to-toe with a player who can actually form articulate arguments.
I still think you're town, but your attack was totally unfair.
It would be great if everyone would, but I doubt more than a handful of players are willing to put forth that kind of effort.
Now that Ender's Mafia is over, I suggest that everyone go and read up on DRey and Artifice 101's scum meta. Specifically, we see a focus on town-leading from DRey and zealousness juxtaposed with lethargy and/or "playing dumb" from A101. So far, neither player is showing the same tells (granted, this is a much larger game, and some of A101's play may be attributed to the uphill battle the scum faced in the endgame), though I see scummy behavior in some of DRey's snap-reads and A101's vote-nudging/setup-gaming. I'm keeping an eye on both for now.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Damnit guys, AsianI is scum. The fact that he's trying to turn you on to the idea of me as scum based on a recently completed scum game is turning into my new favorite scum tell. I just need to get the players commiting it lynched to prove my theory.
Unvote; Vote AsianI. No, this isn' an OMGUS vote. This is my genuine read of AsianI and others should join me. His defense when pressed has been lackluster and he needs to be lynched.
Hey, kid, get off my lawn.
Also, please give the 500ish post game a read before you "help".
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Gonna do that read when I wake up today. Who knew ghoul+arrow trap=1 hour?
Yeah.
Lunar Hail Storm that fell a tree.
Crazy ****.
I need to reread this game, will post when my real internet is back up.
scumbag
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Post coming tomorrow morning.
AsianInvasion (4) - iLord, Art, DJC, LC
Brinatoo (3) - Niv, AE, ZasZ
AE (2) - Brinatoo, Yanni
Art (2) - kpaca, vezok
Dancing Mad (1) - Asian
ZasZ (1) - DRey
Liquidity Crisis (1) - Gigas
iLord (1) - ced
With 21 alive, it's 11 to lynch.
The Aeon Clock stands at 4.
***
ZasZ and Niv have been prodded.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
"Unfair" is an odd term to use. Could you elaborate on what you mean by it?
I doubt that I"ll find time to do one before today's lynch, since I'm going to have to do a reread after the flip anyways and I'd rather not do two rereads in what could be short succession.
Also the thread is dominated by so many arguments that make it absolutely impossible to discern scum. Arguing with a player is the worst way to generate useful reactions - both players eventually devolve to focusing on winning the argument which results in behavior that is indistinguishable with regards to alignment. It makes it really hard to dig through everything to get to the parts that matter.
I'll elaborate on my criticism - I could easily see scumAI taking the effort to make the case against scumYanni. AsianInvasion is not one to shy away such travails.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Your certainty here is making me rethink all my suspicions of him.
Explain to me why tunneling is so bad it has to be scum?
I'm looking forward to this reply also.
I see no reason why Brinatoo shouldn't be lynched other than if its Yanni. My reread of AI became nonexistent over the weekend as did a lot of things. Looking at the cases on him.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
post392
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I also hate Art's attempt to game a setup in which steps have been taken to prevent setup gaming.
scumbag
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