Dude, please vote Chickenfish. I'm nowhere near as sure on Marr as I am him. Plus, he's begging for it.
What's interesting about it?
That "battlemaster" / "chickenfish" / "arnnaria" are a scum team. When we've had very little interaction with one another. Yes, I have had interaction with Chickenfish, but we never saw eye to eye really.
How petty do you think I am? I barely even remember you being in Mod Mafia 3.
I was the doctor that claimed too early and kept getting roleblocked. I think you were the cop, and I tried to save you, but I got roleblocked and you died.
That "battlemaster" / "chickenfish" / "arnnaria" are a scum team. When we've had very little interaction with one another. Yes, I have had interaction with Chickenfish, but we never saw eye to eye really.
You just switched from "Manders is definitely town" to "Hell no, I'm not even responding to you because you're not using logic" which was exactly what Chickenfish said.
You just switched from "Manders is definitely town" to "Hell no, I'm not even responding to you because you're not using logic" which was exactly what Chickenfish said.
Dude, if you are town,
I know, it's been a real bad game for me. I wanna hear from Eron, is he on V/LA? After posting that megapost of his he kinda vanished, but I've seen him lurking.
I was the doctor that claimed too early and kept getting roleblocked. I think you were the cop, and I tried to save you, but I got roleblocked and you died.
I'm waiting to get confirmation from my mentor on a couple of things before I proceed.
As for fence sitting, I've only played in like two online mafia games. The first one was a moderator-only game. That was my first game online and it is unfortunately locked in the vault and will never be released to the public. I didn't really play well that game so I went on whims. One of those whims was that Manders was scum and I scum hunted her the entire game. When she turned out to be town, I was surprised that my gut instinct had been wrong; but I learned an important lesson: don't trust your gut, rely on evidence.
The second game I was in I was a Serial Killer in Star Trek Specialty. I thoroughly enjoyed the role, but found it very hard to "play Town". I ended up making a false claim that I was a Neutral Survivor and while that worked for a while, I got day-vigged by a vigilante. However it taught me that fence sitting is a really scummy thing to do.
This is my third game. And I'm playing with a mentor. I hope I can fix my mistakes of the past because I'd really like a victory in this one.
Phone post so this will have to be at the top with quotes to follow.
Why do you continue to claim early then?
Also, you have admittedly false claimed before. How is this time different?
This time is different because there is information in the role PM's that only the power roles of the town could know. The other power roles, who Wheat Grinder has instructed not to claim unless they are counterclaiming Cop or Watcher, will only know this information.
But I'm going to warn anyone counterclaiming just to get a lynch on me. You will be found out rather quickly by a process of elimination.
Because I didn't want to go to bed and be lynched the next day.
I thought the breadcrumb that I was a power role was going to stop Manders and Wheat Grinder. But the breadcrumb didn't work at all, it made people MORE suspicious of me. So I dropped another. And it had the same effect. Finally, in Grinder's post he basically said that I hadn't claimed. So I claimed.
I figure I'm going to get roleblocked or killed tonight. And if not tonight, then surely tomorrow. But if I don't get roleblocked, I can use my ability to the town's benefit once. The question is, who should I use it on?
Because I didn't want to go to bed and be lynched the next day.
I thought the breadcrumb that I was a power role was going to stop Manders and Wheat Grinder. But the breadcrumb didn't work at all, it made people MORE suspicious of me. So I dropped another. And it had the same effect. Finally, in Grinder's post he basically said that I hadn't claimed. So I claimed.
I figure I'm going to get roleblocked or killed tonight. And if not tonight, then surely tomorrow. But if I don't get roleblocked, I can use my ability to the town's benefit once. The question is, who should I use it on?
Okay, so I quickly skimmed the thread because I won't be available this weekend (so sorry, don't worry, I'll catch up Monday) and want to say that I don't support lynching an uncounterclaimed power role day 1 (give them at least a day to use their role, or make them fake results), and still don't really like Eron. Going away for the weekend now, massive catch-up post coming Monday.
Alright, lots of juicy stuff overnight (Australia time)! I'll do it chronologically rather than by player, though, as that seems to make more sense at this stage. Marr's Post 333:Not liking this:
Quote from Marr965 »
Okay, I'll cop to that: That was really really stupid of me. I would have given reasons for my vote anyway, but I agree: I should have posted a list before voting.
Quote from Marr965 »
Yeah, I can't really give justification on gut-feel, can I?
Quote from Marr965 »
True. True. Manders felt townier to me than Wheat did. I may post another list tonight, but that'll come quite late for me for today.
Quote from Marr965 »
:-/I don't really have any explanation for that. It just felt like a sensible thing to do, to me...
Lots of lying down and taking it, admitting there wasn't a lot of justification for things. I mean, I appreciate that you're not going to argue a cause you don't believe in, but it gives us very little to go on...
Quote from Chickenfish »
Quote from Marr965 »
However.
Given what I said and the fact that this guy is already on the Kittywagon:
Vote KittyCupCake
You've been accepted by the masses, so now it's time to vote. Also, who were you referring to when you said 'this guy'?
Quote from Marr965 »
You, actually.
That's what I thought - was just making sure you weren't using 'this guy' in a 'what's got two thumbs...' sense. The logic of voting for KCC because I'm already good with it, and the willingness to get on a wagon:
Quote from Marr965 »
No, I'm not avoiding bussing Arn. I gut-felt that Kitty was scum, more than I felt Arn was scum. As I have said, though, I'm willing to get behind either wagon. It's just that Kitty felt scummier to me.
just aren't ok by me.
Quote from Marr965 »
Would've been good to see Battlemaster on there, then
Heh, I'm playing as the guy.
This = "I read him as scum"
Quote from Marr965 »
Zenjo - agree on the vibe, not on the reason
I hope you're going to elaborate upon your reasoning here.
I think I had already - my analysis of Zenjo at the end of my list reaches the same conclusion as yours but for different reason.
So after all that analysis, where does your vote lie?
After all that analysis, do you still think the best possible course of action is for us to lynch you day one?
And, after all that analysis, does it give you any insight on who is voting for who for what reasons?
Manders - I didn't change my vote that was already on her, and she was at the top of my list.
I'm surprised to hear everyone wasn't as sold on me being scum as I'd thought, and I think you and Manders are making it easier for people to see that you're scum, so if I'm not going to be a detriment to town, I think Manders is a better lynch. If people think I am going to be detrimental (ie not 100% sold on me being town), however, I think lynching me today is still the best long-term strategy.
As for the last part - rereading definitely gave me a fresh perspective. However, the point is to have others (such as yourself) comment on my insights, so as a response to my posts, yours is way below satisfactory.
I've commented on it before. If you're scum you're retaliating on Manders and that just solidifies both reads. If you're town you're frustrated that she's on your wagon and vocal about it and so you're retaliating anyway because in your mind she's trying to mislynch you. I suspect you're scum, but I'm letting you know for future games in case it's the second.
I don't think you've really addressed the issue before. The closest I can see is you dismissing my claims with similar disinterest to the bolded quote. Can you show me the bits of Manders' posts that make you think she's really been that active in scumhunting, and in My Post #327, questioning logic in Mander's post 236, how my concerns are of an OMGUS nature and not a legitimate concern? Mander's Post 336: Lots of one line responses to things without much insight.
Quote from Manders »
Votes don't mean ****. Did you think this would appease me?
Manders, your tone is becoming increasingly aggressive. I've been accused of being rude, and I'm trying to tone back, but could you please do the same? You're being incredibly rude these days, and anything you post that is all caps or has censored swearing in it is impossible for me to read as genuine, but rather overdoing mock outrage.
Quote from Marr965 »
I'll cop to accusing Wheat of twisting my words, but not to accusing him of missing things I've written. What I saw there was blatantly ignoring something I'd written in order to fake a scum read on me. The whole bit about paying attention was effectively telling him to take all of a paragraph (potentially with other, supporting paragraphs) into account when trying to reply to a post.
I will, however, cop to missing stuff you'd written. I'd already basically admitted it anyway.
The bolded bit is exactly what I accused you of - partial quotes that appear I'm saying something different to what I actually said when the whole quote's there.
Quote from Marr965 »
It wasn't twisting your words. It was drawing an inference from the wording of your statement. What you said was "address the same parts of shoddy logic," implying there were other bits of shoddy logic that you hadn't addressed, but were potentially going to. Hope that clears that up.
Fair enough, I apologise for my ambiguity. I meant it as "can people focus specifically on the logic I was talking about, which is shoddy." If you keep in mind my previous sentence was along the lines of "sure she's shown some good logic too", it's easier to read it this way.
Quote from Marr965 »
I agree with you that Arn seems to be flailing like a fish out of water. It's like you said: Either he's scum, probing for the best stance to take on Manders, or he's town who's screwed up catastrophically. Either way, he's made a hash-job of it, as you caught him.
I'm totally convinced it's the former (obviously), but totally sympathise if it's the latter, as I very much did the same.
Quote from Marr965 »
At this stage I'm fairly confident that the scum team is Manders, Arn, Marr, but willing to be proven wrong on the Marr front.
Could I ask for your current leaning on me? If you don't think I'm scum for sure, could you tell us who your probables are?
My current leaning on you is scum, as per my list, and my other probables are in my list
Also, you're almost certainly town in my eyes: You're volunteering to be lynched.
Come on, guys. This guy is volunteering to be lynched. Do you really think he's scum?
This doesn't sit right with me, and is a big factor in why I still think you're scum. I think you saw what you interpreted as an emotional plea, and as a newer player to the game decided you'd try to get me on your side.
As people have pointed out, there are plenty of reasons scum would volunteer to get lynched, and there are plenty of times it's happened in the past. Either way though, I think I'm doomed if you flip scum, cos you're overdoing the buddying...
I'm writing a very large post! It's about Arnnaria and Chickenfish! But I don't think I'll have time to finish it before tomorrow, or maybe sunday! I'm going to have a really busy weekend, so I may be pretty scarce! I'll chime in as much as I can!
If we're your prime candidates (safe assumption, I think!), lynch me please. The way I see it, after Arn's bizarre role claim lynching me leaves these possible fates for Arn:
1) Lynched tomorrow - Scum. Sweet, 1 down.
2) Lynched tomorrow - Tracker. Unfortunate, but at least he'll be able to give the results of Night 1
3) NK tonight, if his roleclaim is true. Once again, unfortunate, but at least we don't waste a lynch on him.
More to come... figure it's worth splitting this post up...
This time is different because there is information in the role PM's that only the power roles of the town could know. The other power roles, who Wheat Grinder has instructed not to claim unless they are counterclaiming Cop or Watcher, will only know this information.
But I'm going to warn anyone counterclaiming just to get a lynch on me. You will be found out rather quickly by a process of elimination.
You realize that using information in the role PMs is flavorgaming, right?
Aside from the fact that I find it hard to believe that Iso would do anything like that, knowing him as well as I do. I think you're mistaken.
Because I didn't want to go to bed and be lynched the next day.
I thought the breadcrumb that I was a power role was going to stop Manders and Wheat Grinder. But the breadcrumb didn't work at all, it made people MORE suspicious of me. So I dropped another. And it had the same effect. Finally, in Grinder's post he basically said that I hadn't claimed. So I claimed.
I figure I'm going to get roleblocked or killed tonight. And if not tonight, then surely tomorrow. But if I don't get roleblocked, I can use my ability to the town's benefit once. The question is, who should I use it on?
Someone who you think is scum, but we should not decide for you.
Arnnaria, what games have you played and/or read? I know Mod Mafia 2 and Star Trek, but haven't you played in more than that?
This, iirc, is the only response I gave to you 'cozying up to me'. Suppose is the key word here, I wasn't sure what to think about it.
I still really don't know what kind of 'cozying' that was when you asked if I would be Seppel v.2. I didn't know if you were agreeing with my posts or just liked the style of my logic or if I reminded you of Seppel. I really don't care either.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Actively lurking? You are out of your ****ing mind.
All work and no play makes Manders a brutal ****ing ***** that you don't want to play with, I assure you.
Aside from the fact, I am SICK AND ****ING TIRED of being accused of doing things in-game for "personal reasons". If Iso wasn't the mod of this game, I'd be ****ing gone right now. Just because I'm a girl doesn't mean it's impossible for me to put any personal issues I may (not stating I do with you, Arnnaria, cause I really don't) have with someone.
I have. You are just biting on Chickenfish's bull**** because it gave you an easy out. That's lame. Play the game.
Dude, you hadn't claimed jack ****.
And, you know what? I'm done. You've claimed. I'll give you the time to prove yourself or die trying.
That "battlemaster" / "chickenfish" / "arnnaria" are a scum team. When we've had very little interaction with one another. Yes, I have had interaction with Chickenfish, but we never saw eye to eye really.
That's a complete and utter falsehood. You've had plenty of interaction. (Less with BM than Marr, but BM didn't post a whole lot).
This time is different because there is information in the role PM's that only the power roles of the town could know. The other power roles, who Wheat Grinder has instructed not to claim unless they are counterclaiming Cop or Watcher, will only know this information.
I kinda doubt that, but I don't want to see anyone confirming unless they're pushed to L-2 or it's tomorrow and they're cc'ing Arnnaria.
But I'm going to warn anyone counterclaiming just to get a lynch on me. You will be found out rather quickly by a process of elimination.
I figure I'm going to get roleblocked or killed tonight. And if not tonight, then surely tomorrow. But if I don't get roleblocked, I can use my ability to the town's benefit once. The question is, who should I use it on?
Use it on whoever you feel like, just don't tell us beforehand.
I don't think you've really addressed the issue before. The closest I can see is you dismissing my claims with similar disinterest to the bolded quote. Can you show me the bits of Manders' posts that make you think she's really been that active in scumhunting, and in My Post #327, questioning logic in Mander's post 236, how my concerns are of an OMGUS nature and not a legitimate concern?
I hadn't addressed that particular point before, true. I had meant from my sentence that I had commented on your case before.
As to the rest, I'll provide answers for you soon, but not now, because I want to go do other stuff right now.
Phone posting while out and my phone is being a jerk so no quotes for me at the moment.
@ Arn, I REALLY don't like the claim of a power role. It seems like a desperation plea.
Also, since its my first game I someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that get Arn mod killed since I'm guessing they didn't claim so much as potentially quoted role pm? I say potentially since I still don't trust Arn. I will give them the benifet of the doubt this once due to power claim.
@ Chicken you make better sense (such as now) when you arent so desperate and trying to make insta town (by saying hey I'm town, did you know I'm town, and just for the record I'm town). You DO have some valid points you have brought up that I want to get to as soon as I can.
@ Gamorra last I looked (I went back while at work) he said he was busy then nothing. If he was around I would love to get more info since I have him on my FoS list.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Manders' post #344More abuse that barely deserves the time of day. The few things worth commenting on though:
Quote from Manders »
Quote from Chickenfish »
Somebody once said
[QUOTE=Manders]
Self-meta is nowhere near as worthy as others providing the meta.[/QUOTE
As such, I'm sure you won't be surprised to hear your self-meta means nothing to me.
Wow, so it means nothing? I said nowhere near as worthy (meaning still worthy) but cool. You don't wanna take it from me? ASK ANY MOTHER ****ER IN THIS FORUM WHO'S BEEN HERE ANY AMOUNT OF TIME.
And stop ****ing condescending me.
Fair enough, I took it to extreme. Still, you telling me how you play means very little to me as a new player to to forum.
Also, the bolded - you've made it pretty clear that you've been here longer than most. It by no means gives you the right to treat those that haven't as your lessers. This isn't even an in-game thing. Try having a bit of respect for others.
If this is actually just an in-game thing, some sort of appeal to emotion by acting extremely outraged, then once the game is over I forgive you
I just really hope it's an in-game attitude...
Also, I realise the potential irony in this statement, but I'm not being condescending. I'm using your argument against you (which clearly you don't like), but there's no condescension in there...
Too bad we're lynching Arnnaria today. You waited too long.
Firstly - this is condescending.
I already expressed multiple times that it's not defeatism - and the proof is in the pudding. I made my huge list, I'm still fighting, and I still think I'm the right (well, a valid) lynch for today.
Also, I've argued that lynching me is pro town, and I think it's pretty obvious why it's anti-town to lynch a claimed power role day 1, yet apparently we're deadset lynching Arnnaria (not to mention you've changed your vote to me, since).
If this is your town play, I shudder at the thought of your scum play.
This bit should probably read She also appears to be changing her vote to the person who seems most likely to be lynched at any given time, but before the votes begin to reflect it. to drive the point home.
That must be what you're doing. Me, I was having trouble deciding between you and Arnnaria. Now, I know that either is an excellent choice.
Add to that the fact that I've been the first (or at the most 2nd) person on every wagon I've been on (read: you or Arnnaria) and you're full of it.
Notice how the bolded is exactly my point, and you're using it as though it's a counterargument?
Quote from Manders »
I am pretty flipping hard to lynch when I'm town. I am a popular scum NK choice, though.
This, to me, screams "if there's a doc out there, your should protect me". Manders is probably good enough as scum to suspect this is the case and not perform a NK, so I emplore the doctor not to protect Manders tonight (again, if you're worried I'm trying to give scum a solid target for NK, lynch me).
I keep seeing posts like these and it keeps hammering home you three as the scumteam.
I have the same feelings about a Marr/Arn/Manders team every time I see them interact. Can't blame you for seeing it in the posts you've quoted either - I just hope that when I flip town you don't lose sight of the other two.
Until someone cc's you, I won't vote you. Especially since we have other scumspects on the table.
I will say this: If there is a cop, watcher, or tracker, don't claim right away today, but claim tomorrow. That way, we'll have a result to go off of, along with scum to lynch tomorrow. I'll also say this: If someone is a cop, it's very, very unlikely that Arnnaria is the tracker.
Completely agree. Also we already think Arn's scum - a counterclaim only gives scum their target for tonight.
Actively lurking? You are out of your ****ing mind.
Cut the abuse. Your posts are either a pile of nothing, or "I had a bunch of stuff but I lost it". I think my suspicions are totally valid. If you don't, please argue them with me in a reasonable manner.
Aside from the fact, I am SICK AND ****ING TIRED of being accused of doing things in-game for "personal reasons". If Iso wasn't the mod of this game, I'd be ****ing gone right now. Just because I'm a girl doesn't mean it's impossible for me to put any personal issues I may (not stating I do with you, Arnnaria, cause I really don't) have with someone.
The bolded bit is rife with irony. Secondly, nobody said anything about it being related to your sex. Once again, I hope this is an in-game emotional appeal to make people feel guarded about what they say about you, because if this is actually you coming through, you need to calm down and be more respectful.
This time is different because there is information in the role PM's that only the power roles of the town could know. The other power roles, who Wheat Grinder has instructed not to claim unless they are counterclaiming Cop or Watcher, will only know this information.
But I'm going to warn anyone counterclaiming just to get a lynch on me. You will be found out rather quickly by a process of elimination.
This is very interesting, and the only reason I'm doubting my suspicions about Arn. However, it's possible this is just a doomed scum trying to get as much info as they can out of the power roles, or maybe a mafia RB/redirect with "it only works on these abilities..." for clarification.
I've been in games where the vig shoots a democratically chosen person each night.
Why can't I track a democratically chosen person every night?
I'd like to know the circumstances surrounding that - was the vig known? Or was the idea that the vig didn't have to claim and it was just a town-controlled kill?
Either way, the reason it's different here is we've got no actual evidence that you're tracker.
Okay, so I quickly skimmed the thread because I won't be available this weekend (so sorry, don't worry, I'll catch up Monday) and want to say that I don't support lynching an uncounterclaimed power role day 1 (give them at least a day to use their role, or make them fake results), and still don't really like Eron. Going away for the weekend now, massive catch-up post coming Monday.
Wow, wish you'd been posting sooner. I'm really interested to see what you have to say on this front!
While it's essentially what I want, I'm concerned that you're simply following Manders' lead on everything.
Surely you initially voted Marr because, on some level, out of the two of us you though he was the better lynch. I'm now starting to read your post of:
@ Chicken you make better sense (such as now) when you arent so desperate and trying to make insta town (by saying hey I'm town, did you know I'm town, and just for the record I'm town). You DO have some valid points you have brought up that I want to get to as soon as I can.
I think, once again, that was a misinterpretation I caused due to the way I presented my arguments. People were saying "Case X shows you're scum", I would say "No, Case X is also a valid town play", and people would say "stop drilling home the 'I'm town' case" (over simplification, obviously). In trying to point out things I did weren't necessarily scum tells by using the phrase "Also, as town", it sounded desperate.
Not worth getting into anymore because I think we're past it (for now) - the crux of it is I admit that I am 100% to blame, and I vow to express myself a bit more simply during RVS in the future!
@ Gamorra last I looked (I went back while at work) he said he was busy then nothing. If he was around I would love to get more info since I have him on my FoS list.
I feel he'll be subbed out very soon... Mod - are we at the point where Gamora is being replaced?
@ Arn, I REALLY don't like the claim of a power role. It seems like a desperation plea.
Also, since its my first game I someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that get Arn mod killed since I'm guessing they didn't claim so much as potentially quoted role pm? I say potentially since I still don't trust Arn. I will give them the benifet of the doubt this once due to power claim.
Everything in parentheses on my claim was not from the PM. It was my personal commentary plus the information that I chose to reveal. There is still information that I have yet to reveal, but it will be important to keep that secret until much later.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Actually, I sent Gamora a PM a day or two ago. So consider this the 48 hour mark from which Gamora will have to respond to me or get replaced.
.
Ah sorry, misinterpreted. By "consider this I thought you mean the PM you sent a day or two ago, not the timing of the post.
Sorry for questioning you, oh great one
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'd like to know the circumstances surrounding that - was the vig known? Or was the idea that the vig didn't have to claim and it was just a town-controlled kill?
Either way, the reason it's different here is we've got no actual evidence that you're tracker.
Star Trek Mafia. The Vig got to night shoot kill anyone he wanted. He messed up TWICE and shot two townies. I was Serial Killer, and the mafia were killing people, so there were THREE KILLS A NIGHT. Someone realized that the Vig was killing off the townies, and the town basically told him to "kill person X or we'll lynch you". But this was after I was already vigged and it was revealed that I was a Serial Killer.
At least, that's how I remember it. Wheat Grinder, do you have anything to add?
While this is very true for the most part, I can be a ***** when the mood hits me.
This is actually more like me. And, in Mafia, those claws come out pretty regularly.
I think these two quotes early on explain Manders and my temperaments for the last fifty or so posts. At least it explains mine, but I don't want to speak for Manders.
Star Trek Mafia. The Vig got to night shoot kill anyone he wanted. He messed up TWICE and shot two townies. I was Serial Killer, and the mafia were killing people, so there were THREE KILLS A NIGHT. Someone realized that the Vig was killing off the townies, and the town basically told him to "kill person X or we'll lynch you". But this was after I was already vigged and it was revealed that I was a Serial Killer.
At least, that's how I remember it. Wheat Grinder, do you have anything to add?
So vig's identity wasn't known? My point was - the existence of a vig was known, either way. We still have no evidence you're tracker.
Wheat made a good point, too, in that publicly voting for tracker targets is just hideous strategy, due to the nature of the role.
Vote: Foxlet since Batman is determined that we fight to the death!
That's a good reason to vote for someone! Too good.
Vote: MandersHex
Ridiculous stretch, Arn. You're right in that it was my first post - it was my first post of my first game on this forum, after Manders had made a single joke vote (sidenote: probably my favourite of jokevotes I've seen). At that stage, Manders was a screen name of a person who made a quirky comment about Batman. And from that, you're proposing that I've actually just got a personal vendetta against Manders?
That's an awful attempt at a case there, Arn.
Once again - I give you all that stuff, and this is what you make of it?
I think these two quotes early on explain Manders and my temperaments for the last fifty or so posts. At least it explains mine, but I don't want to speak for Manders.
It's as potentially dodgy for Manders as your "I fencesit guys ok?" argument was for you. It's pre-excusing a way of acting so that we ignore what would otherwise appear scummy.
So vig's identity wasn't known? My point was - the existence of a vig was known, either way. We still have no evidence you're tracker.
Wheat made a good point, too, in that publicly voting for tracker targets is just hideous strategy, due to the nature of the role.
Okay I'll just use it to the best of my ability.
Let's put this in context, shall we:
Ridiculous stretch, Arn. You're right in that it was my first post - it was my first post of my first game on this forum, after Manders had made a single joke vote (sidenote: probably my favourite of jokevotes I've seen). At that stage, Manders was a screen name of a person who made a quirky comment about Batman. And from that, you're proposing that I've actually just got a personal vendetta against Manders?
That's an awful attempt at a case there, Arn.
Once again - I give you all that stuff, and this is what you make of it?
I wasn't entirely serious, I just had to ask as I was re-reading through.
It's as potentially dodgy for Manders as your "I fencesit guys ok?" argument was for you. It's pre-excusing a way of acting so that we ignore what would otherwise appear scummy
Getting defensive isn't entirely scummy. I've seen Town go down with guns blazing, especially if they think they're getting a bum rap. Hell, it what was I was doing until the pressure was removed.
I have the same feelings about a Marr/Arn/Manders team every time I see them interact. Can't blame you for seeing it in the posts you've quoted either - I just hope that when I flip town you don't lose sight of the other two.
Don't worry, I won't.
I like the sound of that! (wish Manders was on the list though... a boy can dream...)
You know, the more I read your posts, the more I'm wondering if it's really you that's scum and not Manders. I'm at the point where I'm 95% certain one of you two is scum, but now I'm not sure which. There's a pretty strong dichotomy there.
Manders has been barning me and I've been barning her, but now I'm concerned that may have been exactly what she was going for.
While it's essentially what I want, I'm concerned that you're simply following Manders' lead on everything.
I have to agree with you. I'm starting to think I tunneled Manders as being town, which turned everything you said scummier. I've tunneled people as being town before (Basic 56 was rife with it) and it's ended up biting me in the butt in the later stages of the game. This time I'm going to try to catch it a bit earlier. Plus, I keep seeing Manders play being more and more like Basic 49 where she was scum. I remember her getting into large arguments and bussing like crazy that game. That would make sense here.
Unvote, Vote Marr965
I'm not sure on you two anymore. I'll do some rereading and probably vote one or the other of you two later this weekend. Until then, I'll leave my vote on Marr, because I'm convinced he's scum.
Also, if you are lynched, and flip town, I'll be going after Manders or Arnnaria tomorrow, depending on if anyone cc's Arnnaria tomorrow.
Surely you initially voted Marr because, on some level, out of the two of us you though he was the better lynch. I'm now starting to read your post of:as "guys no matter who gets lynched, I wasn't voting due to a wagon".
Revision to list: WG alongside Marr as potential third.
If you're saying what I think you're saying, it's false. If one of you two were lynched today, I was going to be one of the people on it. Now I'm not so sure because I'm rethinking Manders, but I wasn't going to be on the wagon that didn't lead to the lynch.
Star Trek Mafia. The Vig got to night shoot kill anyone he wanted. He messed up TWICE and shot two townies. I was Serial Killer, and the mafia were killing people, so there were THREE KILLS A NIGHT. Someone realized that the Vig was killing off the townies, and the town basically told him to "kill person X or we'll lynch you". But this was after I was already vigged and it was revealed that I was a Serial Killer.
At least, that's how I remember it. Wheat Grinder, do you have anything to add?
I'll just put in my whole side of the story, repeat or not. Whatever day it was, there were a few different discussions going on (CK's alignment and actual role being one of them, iirc) and Arnnaria (false claiming Neutral Survivor) kept bringing up the three kills the previous night out of nowhere. I know it felt weird to me to keep harping on it and yet not have any answers. Then he was dayvig'd and revealed to be the SK and it all made sense.
Manders' post #344More abuse that barely deserves the time of day. The few things worth commenting on though:
Quote from Manders »
Fair enough, I took it to extreme. Still, you telling me how you play means very little to me as a new player to to forum.
Also, the bolded - you've made it pretty clear that you've been here longer than most. It by no means gives you the right to treat those that haven't as your lessers. This isn't even an in-game thing. Try having a bit of respect for others.
I know...it doesn't have much to do with the entire argument at hand. Just chalk it up to too many years in customer service. We all have bad days, we have RL stuff that makes us want to pull our hair out, respect for each other goes a long way even if you DO think the other is the scummiest scumbag that ever played mafia
This is very interesting, and the only reason I'm doubting my suspicions about Arn. However, it's possible this is just a doomed scum trying to get as much info as they can out of the power roles, or maybe a mafia RB/redirect with "it only works on these abilities..." for clarification.
That's how I'm leaning at the moment.
Quote from Chickenfish »
Quote from Arnnaria »
You're counterclaiming?
Quote from EronTheRestless »
Absolutely not.
Eron's right - this can only read as so eager for counterclaim.
Again, after the claim and no CC, Arn's behavior seems (to me) to be very erratic. As if, once a few votes changed he started doing the happy dance I'm still REAL suspicious of the entire setup.
Quote from Chickenfish »
Either way, the reason it's different here is we've got no actual evidence that you're tracker.
No evidence and no CC. Haven't even been a lynch yet. Arn even admitted somewhere that in another game (Star trek) his claim was terrible because he didn't know enough about it. This could be a scum ploy to save him tonight for some specific reason, or just the general reason of...more scum. I'll see if I can find the post where Arn mentioned it. So many new posts I'm trying to get through them all now that I'm home (and pack, etc).
Quote from Chickenfish »
I think, once again, that was a misinterpretation I caused due to the way I presented my arguments. People were saying "Case X shows you're scum", I would say "No, Case X is also a valid town play", and people would say "stop drilling home the 'I'm town' case" (over simplification, obviously). In trying to point out things I did weren't necessarily scum tells by using the phrase "Also, as town", it sounded desperate. Not worth getting into anymore because I think we're past it (for now) - the crux of it is I admit that I am 100% to blame, and I vow to express myself a bit more simply during RVS in the future!
Re: Gamora...I feel he'll be subbed out very soon...
True, since the game turned fast and furious I haven't been able to do as much posting as I planned, I just wanted to throw that out there for you, that's all Agreed that for now, we are past *that* part at least.
Quote from Chickenfish »
That's a good reason to vote for someone! Too good.
Vote: MandersHex
This was your very first post Chickenfish. Are you sure you just don't have a problem with Manders?
@ Arn, I'm pretty certain this has been covered before since that was still in the RVS section (and has been explained previously before). That you bring this up again
This are a few of the good points that Chicken brought up...now to try and hit some of the points from the newer posts between packing.
Again, after the claim and no CC, Arn's behavior seems (to me) to be very erratic. As if, once a few votes changed he started doing the happy dance I'm still REAL suspicious of the entire setup.
Yeah, the pressure was removed and I was relieved. Who wouldn't be? I'm not a stoic person, I wear my heart on my sleeve. I've been fighting this wagon for a long time. It was nice that the lid was taken off the pot.
I have to agree with you. I'm starting to think I tunneled Manders as being town, which turned everything you said scummier. I've tunneled people as being town before (Basic 56 was rife with it) and it's ended up biting me in the butt in the later stages of the game. This time I'm going to try to catch it a bit earlier. Plus, I keep seeing Manders play being more and more like Basic 49 where she was scum. I remember her getting into large arguments and bussing like crazy that game. That would make sense here.
Unvote, Vote Marr965
I'm not sure on you two anymore. I'll do some rereading and probably vote one or the other of you two later this weekend. Until then, I'll leave my vote on Marr, because I'm convinced he's scum.
I admit that's exactly what I'd done with KCC from the start, also tunneling Manders as town, and being frustrated that Manders had so much faith in KCC. However, the reread with Manders as scum in mind explains all my feeling.
I think, at the end of the day, I'm happy with a Marr lynch. Marr is an uncertainty in my mind, but with Arn claiming I've been thrown for a loop. If Arn is actually town, it makes Marr a higher candidate for scum (working down my list, and all).
Ideally I would like to see Manders lynched (if she does somehow flip town, it will at least shed an entirely different light on this whole mess). However, that's not going to happen, and I think it's much more important that Arn make it to tonight than Marr, so I'm going to put my vote where it will have some use. Unvote
Vote: Marr965
As for
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
If you're saying what I think you're saying, it's false. If one of you two were lynched today, I was going to be one of the people on it. Now I'm not so sure because I'm rethinking Manders, but I wasn't going to be on the wagon that didn't lead to the lynch.
I expressed myself poorly, but to me it was possible that you were writing the post I quoted as a way to say on a future day "no guys, I was supportive of that from the start".
The post you've just made has redeemed (in a forgiven, not forgotten kinda way) you for now though, so it's not a train of thought I'm interested in pursuing for now.
Getting defensive isn't entirely scummy. I've seen Town go down with guns blazing, especially if they think they're getting a bum rap. Hell, it what was I was doing until the pressure was removed.
Well yeah, I think I'm pretty guilty of the getting too defensive crime too.
I wasn't talking about getting defensive though, I was talking about the manner in which it happens. Manders said "sometimes I get the claws out", now the claws are out, so people are treating her abusive posts as actual content. I'm not ok with that.
Yeah, the pressure was removed and I was relieved. Who wouldn't be? I'm not a stoic person, I wear my heart on my sleeve. I've been fighting this wagon for a long time. It was nice that the lid was taken off the pot.
If you are truly the Tracker, I hope you've got a bit more reason than this for your claim. You have to know that claim, if true, could only hurt the town. You've said it yourself you claim too soon to the detriment of your team.
If you are truly the Tracker, I hope you've got a bit more reason than this for your claim. You have to know that claim, if true, could only hurt the town. You've said it yourself you claim too soon to the detriment of your team.
Yes, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get roleblocked every night or killed soon. This gives more time for the other power roles to do their jobs. I'm a prime target tonight, but the scum may think the doctor is going to save me and go for a less erratic member of the town. Or they could knock me off, which would be unfortunate. I don't know what the doctor is going to do, but if I can track one person tonight I think we'll be in a good position tomorrrow.
Yes, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get roleblocked every night or killed soon. This gives more time for the other power roles to do their jobs. I'm a prime target tonight, but the scum may think the doctor is going to save me and go for a less erratic member of the town. Or they could knock me off, which would be unfortunate. I don't know what the doctor is going to do, but if I can track one person tonight I think we'll be in a good position tomorrrow.
Maybe, but I think specifically naming tracker was woeful. Whether or not you named, we either believed you or not. Now, the mafia have a more informed way to decide who makes their kill, and who they kill, making both yours and a potential doc's choices much harder.
I think this is all pointless anyway, since I'm not at all convinced of the legitimacy of your claim
Maybe, but I think specifically naming tracker was woeful. Whether or not you named, we either believed you or not. Now, the mafia have a more informed way to decide who makes their kill, and who they kill, making both yours and a potential doc's choices much harder.
I think this is all pointless anyway, since I'm not at all convinced of the legitimacy of your claim
Well what was the alternative? Losing two town in a day/night? Losing the tracker AND another townie?
Because that's what was going to happen if I didn't claim.
Then you're not giving people much of an option here except to vote for you. Which is either a desperate scum attempt to deflect a wagon from forming or a "noble" (in your eyes) gesture to get reads on a few people.
The writing may have been on the wall, but it wasn't on the clock. You could've started giving some insight into people, seen where that got you, then claim at L-2/L-1. Noble in your eyes indeed.
Anyway, I think this is a discussion for after the game. If it's a scum strategy, you don't mean what you say, and if you are the Tracker, we're discussing general game strategy and not really the game.
Arn. You're arguing using emotion, rather than logic. People are going to be less likely to be swayed, because you aren't putting coherent arguments together. Manders is pulling your arguments to bits because they aren't solid. If you put solid arguments together, then they're not going to fall down in a stiff breeze.
This is one reason why Chicken was an easy "target" at the start of the game. He was defensive, emotional and didn't make as much sense as he is making now. You don't have to make mega posts to get your points across.
I will say this: If there is a cop, watcher, or tracker, don't claim right away today, but claim tomorrow. That way, we'll have a result to go off of, along with scum to lynch tomorrow. I'll also say this: If someone is a cop, it's very, very unlikely that Arnnaria is the tracker.
Why do you say that?
Is it because having a tracker is a weaker investigative type role, therefore in a game this size Iso would unlikely have a cop AND a tracker? Although, IF Arn is a Tracker, for balance I would think that there would be a scum and a town tracker. So, Arn wasn't lying about the tracking ability, the fact remains that that STILL doesn't clear him as scum.
Above is just me thinking out loud (based on what I've read about tracker abilities in the wiki) a bit since WG brought it up. I would still like to get his input on it only because of his experience in the game...as well as Manders and KKC (due to experience).
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That "battlemaster" / "chickenfish" / "arnnaria" are a scum team. When we've had very little interaction with one another. Yes, I have had interaction with Chickenfish, but we never saw eye to eye really.
I was the doctor that claimed too early and kept getting roleblocked. I think you were the cop, and I tried to save you, but I got roleblocked and you died.
You just switched from "Manders is definitely town" to "Hell no, I'm not even responding to you because you're not using logic" which was exactly what Chickenfish said.
Dude, if you are town,
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I know, it's been a real bad game for me. I wanna hear from Eron, is he on V/LA? After posting that megapost of his he kinda vanished, but I've seen him lurking.
Why do you continue to claim early then?
Also, you have admittedly false claimed before. How is this time different?
This time is different because there is information in the role PM's that only the power roles of the town could know. The other power roles, who Wheat Grinder has instructed not to claim unless they are counterclaiming Cop or Watcher, will only know this information.
But I'm going to warn anyone counterclaiming just to get a lynch on me. You will be found out rather quickly by a process of elimination.
You're counterclaiming?
Why did you feel the need to claim @ L-3?
Because I didn't want to go to bed and be lynched the next day.
I thought the breadcrumb that I was a power role was going to stop Manders and Wheat Grinder. But the breadcrumb didn't work at all, it made people MORE suspicious of me. So I dropped another. And it had the same effect. Finally, in Grinder's post he basically said that I hadn't claimed. So I claimed.
I figure I'm going to get roleblocked or killed tonight. And if not tonight, then surely tomorrow. But if I don't get roleblocked, I can use my ability to the town's benefit once. The question is, who should I use it on?
Absolutely not. That was in response to you saying I vanished and my phone posted before I asked about your L-3 claim.
However, you are very quick to anticipate a CC. Why?
Because I read it as "There. I am."
Who is this directed to?
Eron, you asked "Why did you feel the need to claim @ L-3?"
It's directed to you.
Can you not see quotes on your phone?
You asked who you should use your ability on.
I'm asking who that is directed to.
The entire group. Everyone that is town.
I've been in games where the vig shoots a democratically chosen person each night.
Why can't I track a democratically chosen person every night?
Marr's Post 333:Not liking this:
Lots of lying down and taking it, admitting there wasn't a lot of justification for things. I mean, I appreciate that you're not going to argue a cause you don't believe in, but it gives us very little to go on...
That's what I thought - was just making sure you weren't using 'this guy' in a 'what's got two thumbs...' sense. The logic of voting for KCC because I'm already good with it, and the willingness to get on a wagon:
just aren't ok by me.
This = "I read him as scum"
I think I had already - my analysis of Zenjo at the end of my list reaches the same conclusion as yours but for different reason.
Manders - I didn't change my vote that was already on her, and she was at the top of my list.
I'm surprised to hear everyone wasn't as sold on me being scum as I'd thought, and I think you and Manders are making it easier for people to see that you're scum, so if I'm not going to be a detriment to town, I think Manders is a better lynch. If people think I am going to be detrimental (ie not 100% sold on me being town), however, I think lynching me today is still the best long-term strategy.
As for the last part - rereading definitely gave me a fresh perspective. However, the point is to have others (such as yourself) comment on my insights, so as a response to my posts, yours is way below satisfactory.
I don't think you've really addressed the issue before. The closest I can see is you dismissing my claims with similar disinterest to the bolded quote. Can you show me the bits of Manders' posts that make you think she's really been that active in scumhunting, and in My Post #327, questioning logic in Mander's post 236, how my concerns are of an OMGUS nature and not a legitimate concern?
Mander's Post 336: Lots of one line responses to things without much insight. Manders, your tone is becoming increasingly aggressive. I've been accused of being rude, and I'm trying to tone back, but could you please do the same? You're being incredibly rude these days, and anything you post that is all caps or has censored swearing in it is impossible for me to read as genuine, but rather overdoing mock outrage.
The bolded bit is exactly what I accused you of - partial quotes that appear I'm saying something different to what I actually said when the whole quote's there.
Fair enough, I apologise for my ambiguity. I meant it as "can people focus specifically on the logic I was talking about, which is shoddy." If you keep in mind my previous sentence was along the lines of "sure she's shown some good logic too", it's easier to read it this way.
I'm totally convinced it's the former (obviously), but totally sympathise if it's the latter, as I very much did the same.
My current leaning on you is scum, as per my list, and my other probables are in my list
This doesn't sit right with me, and is a big factor in why I still think you're scum. I think you saw what you interpreted as an emotional plea, and as a newer player to the game decided you'd try to get me on your side.
As people have pointed out, there are plenty of reasons scum would volunteer to get lynched, and there are plenty of times it's happened in the past. Either way though, I think I'm doomed if you flip scum, cos you're overdoing the buddying...
If we're your prime candidates (safe assumption, I think!), lynch me please. The way I see it, after Arn's bizarre role claim lynching me leaves these possible fates for Arn:
1) Lynched tomorrow - Scum. Sweet, 1 down.
2) Lynched tomorrow - Tracker. Unfortunate, but at least he'll be able to give the results of Night 1
3) NK tonight, if his roleclaim is true. Once again, unfortunate, but at least we don't waste a lynch on him.
More to come... figure it's worth splitting this post up...
You realize that using information in the role PMs is flavorgaming, right?
Aside from the fact that I find it hard to believe that Iso would do anything like that, knowing him as well as I do. I think you're mistaken.
Someone who you think is scum, but we should not decide for you.
Arnnaria, what games have you played and/or read? I know Mod Mafia 2 and Star Trek, but haven't you played in more than that?
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I didn't have any reason to say no and you already started doing it.
This, iirc, is the only response I gave to you 'cozying up to me'. Suppose is the key word here, I wasn't sure what to think about it.
I still really don't know what kind of 'cozying' that was when you asked if I would be Seppel v.2. I didn't know if you were agreeing with my posts or just liked the style of my logic or if I reminded you of Seppel. I really don't care either.
Um, I started Little Big Planet but I had to be replaced. Unfortunately, I believe that is still going on so I can't discuss it.
But, those two you mentioned and the one I was replaced out of are my only experience with ONLINE mafia.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Yikes Manders, you okay?
As I said earlier, I'm good voting either way.
Unvote, Vote: Chickenfish
That's a complete and utter falsehood. You've had plenty of interaction. (Less with BM than Marr, but BM didn't post a whole lot).
I kinda doubt that, but I don't want to see anyone confirming unless they're pushed to L-2 or it's tomorrow and they're cc'ing Arnnaria.
Frightening people into not cc'ing.
Use it on whoever you feel like, just don't tell us beforehand.
Because scum can work around a tracker better than the vig. IE the person being targetted, if scum, can just do nothing that night.
Doctor in Mod Mafia 2.
Serial Killer in Star Trek.
I didn't really get to do much doctoring in LBP. I think I replaced out before the D1 Lynch.
Mod Mafia 2 was my first game, and I was a mess.
Star Trek I only played in because Annorax was hosting, and I only made it to Day 2.
So, like I've said, I've really not had much experience with this game.
I just remembered I had to replace out of Mod Mafia 2.
I hadn't addressed that particular point before, true. I had meant from my sentence that I had commented on your case before.
As to the rest, I'll provide answers for you soon, but not now, because I want to go do other stuff right now.
@ Arn, I REALLY don't like the claim of a power role. It seems like a desperation plea.
Also, since its my first game I someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that get Arn mod killed since I'm guessing they didn't claim so much as potentially quoted role pm? I say potentially since I still don't trust Arn. I will give them the benifet of the doubt this once due to power claim.
@ Chicken you make better sense (such as now) when you arent so desperate and trying to make insta town (by saying hey I'm town, did you know I'm town, and just for the record I'm town). You DO have some valid points you have brought up that I want to get to as soon as I can.
@ Gamorra last I looked (I went back while at work) he said he was busy then nothing. If he was around I would love to get more info since I have him on my FoS list.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Fair enough, I took it to extreme. Still, you telling me how you play means very little to me as a new player to to forum.
Also, the bolded - you've made it pretty clear that you've been here longer than most. It by no means gives you the right to treat those that haven't as your lessers. This isn't even an in-game thing. Try having a bit of respect for others.
If this is actually just an in-game thing, some sort of appeal to emotion by acting extremely outraged, then once the game is over I forgive you
I just really hope it's an in-game attitude...
Also, I realise the potential irony in this statement, but I'm not being condescending. I'm using your argument against you (which clearly you don't like), but there's no condescension in there...
Firstly - this is condescending.
I already expressed multiple times that it's not defeatism - and the proof is in the pudding. I made my huge list, I'm still fighting, and I still think I'm the right (well, a valid) lynch for today.
Also, I've argued that lynching me is pro town, and I think it's pretty obvious why it's anti-town to lynch a claimed power role day 1, yet apparently we're deadset lynching Arnnaria (not to mention you've changed your vote to me, since).
If this is your town play, I shudder at the thought of your scum play.
Notice how the bolded is exactly my point, and you're using it as though it's a counterargument?
This, to me, screams "if there's a doc out there, your should protect me". Manders is probably good enough as scum to suspect this is the case and not perform a NK, so I emplore the doctor not to protect Manders tonight (again, if you're worried I'm trying to give scum a solid target for NK, lynch me).
So much space, so little content...
I'm not...
I have the same feelings about a Marr/Arn/Manders team every time I see them interact. Can't blame you for seeing it in the posts you've quoted either - I just hope that when I flip town you don't lose sight of the other two.
Terrible mock incredulity. Terrible.
Completely agree. Also we already think Arn's scum - a counterclaim only gives scum their target for tonight.
I like the sound of that! (wish Manders was on the list though... a boy can dream...)
Cut the abuse. Your posts are either a pile of nothing, or "I had a bunch of stuff but I lost it". I think my suspicions are totally valid. If you don't, please argue them with me in a reasonable manner.
You see this too, right?
The bolded bit is rife with irony. Secondly, nobody said anything about it being related to your sex. Once again, I hope this is an in-game emotional appeal to make people feel guarded about what they say about you, because if this is actually you coming through, you need to calm down and be more respectful.
That's a personal attack.
This is very interesting, and the only reason I'm doubting my suspicions about Arn. However, it's possible this is just a doomed scum trying to get as much info as they can out of the power roles, or maybe a mafia RB/redirect with "it only works on these abilities..." for clarification.
Eron's right - this can only read as so eager for counterclaim.
I'd like to know the circumstances surrounding that - was the vig known? Or was the idea that the vig didn't have to claim and it was just a town-controlled kill?
Either way, the reason it's different here is we've got no actual evidence that you're tracker.
Wow, wish you'd been posting sooner. I'm really interested to see what you have to say on this front!
While it's essentially what I want, I'm concerned that you're simply following Manders' lead on everything.
Surely you initially voted Marr because, on some level, out of the two of us you though he was the better lynch. I'm now starting to read your post of: as "guys no matter who gets lynched, I wasn't voting due to a wagon".
Revision to list: WG alongside Marr as potential third.
I think, once again, that was a misinterpretation I caused due to the way I presented my arguments. People were saying "Case X shows you're scum", I would say "No, Case X is also a valid town play", and people would say "stop drilling home the 'I'm town' case" (over simplification, obviously). In trying to point out things I did weren't necessarily scum tells by using the phrase "Also, as town", it sounded desperate.
Not worth getting into anymore because I think we're past it (for now) - the crux of it is I admit that I am 100% to blame, and I vow to express myself a bit more simply during RVS in the future!
I feel he'll be subbed out very soon...
Mod - are we at the point where Gamora is being replaced?
Everything in parentheses on my claim was not from the PM. It was my personal commentary plus the information that I chose to reveal. There is still information that I have yet to reveal, but it will be important to keep that secret until much later.
.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Sorry for questioning you, oh great one
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Star Trek Mafia. The Vig got to night shoot kill anyone he wanted. He messed up TWICE and shot two townies. I was Serial Killer, and the mafia were killing people, so there were THREE KILLS A NIGHT. Someone realized that the Vig was killing off the townies, and the town basically told him to "kill person X or we'll lynch you". But this was after I was already vigged and it was revealed that I was a Serial Killer.
At least, that's how I remember it. Wheat Grinder, do you have anything to add?
This was your very first post Chickenfish. Are you sure you just don't have a problem with Manders?
I think these two quotes early on explain Manders and my temperaments for the last fifty or so posts. At least it explains mine, but I don't want to speak for Manders.
Wheat made a good point, too, in that publicly voting for tracker targets is just hideous strategy, due to the nature of the role.
Let's put this in context, shall we:
Ridiculous stretch, Arn. You're right in that it was my first post - it was my first post of my first game on this forum, after Manders had made a single joke vote (sidenote: probably my favourite of jokevotes I've seen). At that stage, Manders was a screen name of a person who made a quirky comment about Batman. And from that, you're proposing that I've actually just got a personal vendetta against Manders?
That's an awful attempt at a case there, Arn.
Once again - I give you all that stuff, and this is what you make of it?
It's as potentially dodgy for Manders as your "I fencesit guys ok?" argument was for you. It's pre-excusing a way of acting so that we ignore what would otherwise appear scummy.
Okay I'll just use it to the best of my ability.
I wasn't entirely serious, I just had to ask as I was re-reading through.
Getting defensive isn't entirely scummy. I've seen Town go down with guns blazing, especially if they think they're getting a bum rap. Hell, it what was I was doing until the pressure was removed.
Don't worry, I won't.
You know, the more I read your posts, the more I'm wondering if it's really you that's scum and not Manders. I'm at the point where I'm 95% certain one of you two is scum, but now I'm not sure which. There's a pretty strong dichotomy there.
Manders has been barning me and I've been barning her, but now I'm concerned that may have been exactly what she was going for.
I have to agree with you. I'm starting to think I tunneled Manders as being town, which turned everything you said scummier. I've tunneled people as being town before (Basic 56 was rife with it) and it's ended up biting me in the butt in the later stages of the game. This time I'm going to try to catch it a bit earlier. Plus, I keep seeing Manders play being more and more like Basic 49 where she was scum. I remember her getting into large arguments and bussing like crazy that game. That would make sense here.
Unvote, Vote Marr965
I'm not sure on you two anymore. I'll do some rereading and probably vote one or the other of you two later this weekend. Until then, I'll leave my vote on Marr, because I'm convinced he's scum.
Also, if you are lynched, and flip town, I'll be going after Manders or Arnnaria tomorrow, depending on if anyone cc's Arnnaria tomorrow.
If you're saying what I think you're saying, it's false. If one of you two were lynched today, I was going to be one of the people on it. Now I'm not so sure because I'm rethinking Manders, but I wasn't going to be on the wagon that didn't lead to the lynch.
I'll just put in my whole side of the story, repeat or not. Whatever day it was, there were a few different discussions going on (CK's alignment and actual role being one of them, iirc) and Arnnaria (false claiming Neutral Survivor) kept bringing up the three kills the previous night out of nowhere. I know it felt weird to me to keep harping on it and yet not have any answers. Then he was dayvig'd and revealed to be the SK and it all made sense.
Arnn, personal feelings don't have as big of an effect in Mafia as you seem to think.
Thanks for clearing that up, I was always curious
I know...it doesn't have much to do with the entire argument at hand. Just chalk it up to too many years in customer service. We all have bad days, we have RL stuff that makes us want to pull our hair out, respect for each other goes a long way even if you DO think the other is the scummiest scumbag that ever played mafia
That's how I'm leaning at the moment.
Again, after the claim and no CC, Arn's behavior seems (to me) to be very erratic. As if, once a few votes changed he started doing the happy dance I'm still REAL suspicious of the entire setup.
No evidence and no CC. Haven't even been a lynch yet. Arn even admitted somewhere that in another game (Star trek) his claim was terrible because he didn't know enough about it. This could be a scum ploy to save him tonight for some specific reason, or just the general reason of...more scum. I'll see if I can find the post where Arn mentioned it. So many new posts I'm trying to get through them all now that I'm home (and pack, etc).
True, since the game turned fast and furious I haven't been able to do as much posting as I planned, I just wanted to throw that out there for you, that's all Agreed that for now, we are past *that* part at least.
@ Arn, I'm pretty certain this has been covered before since that was still in the RVS section (and has been explained previously before). That you bring this up again
This are a few of the good points that Chicken brought up...now to try and hit some of the points from the newer posts between packing.
Yeah, the pressure was removed and I was relieved. Who wouldn't be? I'm not a stoic person, I wear my heart on my sleeve. I've been fighting this wagon for a long time. It was nice that the lid was taken off the pot.
I think, at the end of the day, I'm happy with a Marr lynch. Marr is an uncertainty in my mind, but with Arn claiming I've been thrown for a loop. If Arn is actually town, it makes Marr a higher candidate for scum (working down my list, and all).
Ideally I would like to see Manders lynched (if she does somehow flip town, it will at least shed an entirely different light on this whole mess). However, that's not going to happen, and I think it's much more important that Arn make it to tonight than Marr, so I'm going to put my vote where it will have some use.
Unvote
Vote: Marr965
As for
I expressed myself poorly, but to me it was possible that you were writing the post I quoted as a way to say on a future day "no guys, I was supportive of that from the start".
The post you've just made has redeemed (in a forgiven, not forgotten kinda way) you for now though, so it's not a train of thought I'm interested in pursuing for now.
I wasn't talking about getting defensive though, I was talking about the manner in which it happens. Manders said "sometimes I get the claws out", now the claws are out, so people are treating her abusive posts as actual content. I'm not ok with that.
If you are truly the Tracker, I hope you've got a bit more reason than this for your claim. You have to know that claim, if true, could only hurt the town. You've said it yourself you claim too soon to the detriment of your team.
Yes, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get roleblocked every night or killed soon. This gives more time for the other power roles to do their jobs. I'm a prime target tonight, but the scum may think the doctor is going to save me and go for a less erratic member of the town. Or they could knock me off, which would be unfortunate. I don't know what the doctor is going to do, but if I can track one person tonight I think we'll be in a good position tomorrrow.
I think this is all pointless anyway, since I'm not at all convinced of the legitimacy of your claim
Well what was the alternative? Losing two town in a day/night? Losing the tracker AND another townie?
Because that's what was going to happen if I didn't claim.
You weren't even close to lynch yet... and really we lose you anyway...
The writing was on the wall. If we can lynch a scum today, I'll have done my noble deed and be happy with my performance this day.
The writing may have been on the wall, but it wasn't on the clock. You could've started giving some insight into people, seen where that got you, then claim at L-2/L-1. Noble in your eyes indeed.
Anyway, I think this is a discussion for after the game. If it's a scum strategy, you don't mean what you say, and if you are the Tracker, we're discussing general game strategy and not really the game.
Or some of Iso's games <chuckles>
This is one reason why Chicken was an easy "target" at the start of the game. He was defensive, emotional and didn't make as much sense as he is making now. You don't have to make mega posts to get your points across.
Why do you say that?
Is it because having a tracker is a weaker investigative type role, therefore in a game this size Iso would unlikely have a cop AND a tracker? Although, IF Arn is a Tracker, for balance I would think that there would be a scum and a town tracker. So, Arn wasn't lying about the tracking ability, the fact remains that that STILL doesn't clear him as scum.
Above is just me thinking out loud (based on what I've read about tracker abilities in the wiki) a bit since WG brought it up. I would still like to get his input on it only because of his experience in the game...as well as Manders and KKC (due to experience).