You're just throwing suspicion at him without any real merit to the suspicion. "OH WOW THESE LINES ARE CROSSED OUT SO SUSPICIOUS!!" and "I BET HE'LL VOTE MANDERS AFTER THAT OH LOOK HE DID!!" and "BUT YOU HAVE NO COMPELLING EVIDENCE MANDERS IS SCUM?!!?"
Either The_Doctor will respond to this properly and be aggravated that he has to reply, or he'll do something else. Your arguments haven't compelled me into thinking he's scum and I don't expect The_Doctor's response to compel me either.
In summation, it's null because of how bad it is.
I believe I made some good points there. You seem to be missing most of them.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Well I'm sorry to have missed them amongst the bad points.
Well then let me summarize.
Quote from Doc »
"Let's state some analysis of the situation at hand. The following players are not going to both be scum: loran and Iso (for the reason that no scum is going to bus their buddy this hard with the exception of Seppel when he forgots his team)
Loran and Iso can't BOTH be scum.
But then he proceeds to tell us how scummy Iso is.
Quote from Doc »
"MandersHex and loran are also not scum together."
Manders and Loran can't BOTH be scum.
Quote from Doc »
"Let's take this thing in a different direction, shall we? Vote: MandersHex"
And when asked if he thought Manders was scum, he said yes.
Do you really not at least think it odd that this whole "Loran and X cant both be scum" followed shortly after by "X is scum!" has happened twice?
"Let's ask this again. Please explain to me how thinking she's either:
a) Rating you near the top
b) At best rating you neutral
are any bit similar. In other words, what is the at worst equivalent for option b?"
You know what this is Seppel. He's repeatedly asked me about my question to Loran, which as you know included these phrases.
And yes, I pointed out how he posts some things without compelling evidence.
But he posts once a day, and has stated that he spends 3-4 hours on some of these posts.
The Doc seems intellegent. One would assume these posts would therefore be well thought out, and planned to at least a moderate degree.
Have you seen a whole lot of reactionary spur-of-the moment-posts from him this game? Because I haven't.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
However, in respects to the question at hand, since I was thinking then (and am now convinced) that Iso is town, it is only natural that I would be referring to a scum on a town wagon, no?
No, it's not natural because the sentence without the qualifier of it being a 'town' wagon was still a valid sentence. As such, I was trying to determine the thinking behind it.
Quote from MandersHex »
The point of the statement was, if there are neutrals in the game, than if I were scum and Iso were not, there would still not be enough evidence for me to believe he's town over neutral.
"So then why are you so convinced right now that he's town as opposed to a neutral? The only players that would have any clue right now as to whether there's any neutrals in the game would be scum."
Quote from MandersHex »
mostly because I don't really care if I live or die, so long as the town wins.
"I'm willing to call you on this obvious bluff."
Quote from MandersHex »
Quote from The_Doctor »
"I don't know about anyone else, but if there were proof you were town, I would put additional weight on your analysis of Seppel being town."
Huh?
"You were bemoaning the thought that if you were lynched and turned up town, nobody would pay attention to your analysis that Seppel was town. I was stating that for me that it would be quite the opposite."
Quote from MandersHex »
I'm stating, by our discussion earlier, I got the impression that, just because you put a vote on someone , that doesn't guarantee that person is scum in your mind.
"On Day 1, only scum and mason variants have the ability to deal in absolutes."
Quote from kill-joy »
You're going to have to explain this, Doctor. Why are you alluding to a connection between me and Manders? And you stated that you think Manders is scum. Are you saying I'm scum as well due to whatever connection you implied?
"I told you it's not important right now as it's just conjecture without much supporting evidence. (Hence, why I made a note for myself to go back and look at once some more alignments are known.) I'm not actively pursuing the matter, so I don't see why you feel the need to get so defensive about it."
Quote from kill-joy »
I never said both were true.
"So you didn't. I misread the statement - missed the negative of the first bit."
Quote from kill-joy »
Quote from The_Doctor »
"If anyone reading this would post a number in their next post, it would be appreciated. It can be any number you want. Roman numeral, digital, spelled out, whatever. Thanks."
Ok.
A number.
"Alright, there's something to which I'm dying to know the answer. Why is it that each time I tried a clever strategy to determine if people are actually reading the thread, you decide to quote it and call attention to it with either a smiley or large bold text - thus rendering the strategy completely moot?"
Quote from Roja »
Sorry but after hearing that you are his brother, I need to hear things from anyone that isn't you or isn't barning you.
"How about both of loran and me? You can't call for people wrong that have come to the analysis that Iso is town and then call out for people to come out with analysis that Iso is town (except for those other people that were wrong, of course)."
Quote from Roja »
PF posting next to nothing of content (Or anyone really) gives us as the town nothing to analyze.
"Could you give me a quick summary of your thoughts on Silent Prophet?"
Quote from Seppel »
Quote from Roja »
Loran is town. He might have changed his mind on Iso but that doesn't make Iso town. He is still scum.
ALARM BELLS
"How so?"
Quote from Seppel »
Ahahaha. You can't even get your story straight.
You're not even paying attention to the thread.
"How does quoting the same sample of post repeatedly prove that he's not paying attention to the thread or that his story is going criss-cross?"
Quote from kill-joy »
Here he makes the assumption that there are only 3 scum.
"Yes, and?"
Quote from kill-joy »
Here he connects Loran and Iso, and Tanarin and Iso.
"Quite the opposite, actually. A more accurate description would be that I repel them."
Quote from kill-joy »
His logic that Iso and Tanarin couldn't both be scum is flawed, as 2 scum could totally be wagoned early day 1. I would say it's just as unlikely to find scum in RVS. It's happened before.
"You obviously don't have enough game play experience to realize why the point is still valid. Catching one scum and forming a wagon on them = easily within the realm of possibility. Can two be wagoned early day 1, yes? Could it theoretically happen? Yes. Would there be enough support to get one of them to L-2 then the other to 3? Almost certainly not."
Quote from kill-joy »
That's not what Manders actually said. Manders seemed to be implying that PF's was the SCUMMIEST vote on the wagon, not that he was the ONLY scum on the wagon. Possible word twisting.
"Actually, that's exactly what Manders said and meant. Not to mention she's verified that a couple times already since then."
Quote from kill-joy »
So, this is interesting.
Here you see a strike-through through a sentence that The Doctor posted along with a normal sentence.
What's interesting is that this is the internet, and not a piece of paper and pen. Theres a backspace key.
So why include it if, as strikethroughing implies, we are no longer supposed to consider it. Why not erase it?
What about this message are we supposed to see, but not consider? Possible bread-crumbing of some sort?
"Another victim of the 'interesting' tell, mayhap?
You are obviously not familiar with train of thought posting. I pose the questions as I hit the corresponding text. If they happen to answer the question later in the thread, I merely cross it out as it does not need to be answered again and I'll post an analysis of their answer or ask for more clarification.
Finally, is bread-crumbing a good or bad thing? Why would you feel the need to keep trying to find/call attention to it? It's not bread-crumbing, but you seem obsessed with finding breadcrumbs."
Quote from kill-joy »
I never said this either. I said that voting him may cause him to POST more.
"You do realize there's such a thing as typos, right? Oh, add to the fact that you knew what I meant. Proof (your original response to the question) is below."
Quote from kill-joy »
It wouldn't cause him to vote less. I actually succeeded, in my view. Although it's probable that he would've posted regardless of my actions. Getting him in the game is all.
"You started off with the same typo, but by the third sentence, it's clear you knew what I was trying to ask."
Quote from kill-joy »
I see no reason why two people (you and loran) who are scumhunting THAT HARD just pull something just short of a 180 based on a one sentence post like the one Iso made.
"You just need more experience; don't worry, it will come in time. I won't hold it against you."
Quote from kill-joy »
Now he's back on Iso again. Didn't he just say he was leaning heavily toward town earlier in the same post?
"Context is key. MandersHex asked me what I hadn't liked about Iso's list. So, I was giving her my reasoning for saying that. You know, the time before Iso made his 'proof I'm likely town' post."
Quote from kill-joy »
So stating that "A logical avenue for a scum in my position to take would have been..." isn't a valid argument? No wait, it is. Police do it all the time. Getting inside the heads of your opponents is how you figure out how to fight them.
It's not invalid to think that way.
"Trying to figure out what plays scum make is a good idea. However, that isn't what this quote is about. Here's the full context:"
Quote from kill-joy »
Also: As to my response to Seppel up there, if I wanted a quick lynch, I would've jumped on the Tanarin wagon. I just prefer having as much info as possible before voting, as voting is kinda of a big deal in mafia.
"You were defending against why you shouldn't be considered scum."
Quote from kill-joy »
Gee, you sure do agree with Loran a lot, don'tcha?
"Why yes, yes I do."
Quote from kill-joy »
Here he avoids the possibility that Loran could have triggered his ability.
"Actually, here instead of believing one or two extremely contrived possibilities, he leans toward believing any of more numerous scenarios. Occam's Razor is a helpful tool, use it."
Quote from kill-joy »
Wait... Didn't HE make that assumption way back here?
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I understand what you're trying to say correctly: it's more likely that the town caught two scum and has enough support to form wagons on both of them over at least one of them being a false wagon?"
Quote from kill-joy »
A note, huh? I take notes. On my computer.
Not online. You know what I put online? Things I want people to read, and/or think about.
More breadcrumbing.
"Guess what? Some people work. Those same people may be working off multiple computers at work and at home. You know what else? Maybe they work in a company that bans access to all sites like google docs. So what's the easiest way to keep notes? Oh yeah, put them in the thread.
Do you have a problem with me putting all of my notes in the thread as I'm playing?
Again, obsessed with finding breadcrumbs everywhere you look."
Quote from kill-joy »
When did the Doc say that Tanarin was a good lynch target before this?
"Huh? MandersHex moved her vote from Tanarin to pinkfloyd after she had said that she will only vote someone that she is sure is scum. I was asking why she moved it if she was already sure Tanarin was scum."
Quote from kill-joy »
Do you think Tanarin is scum? Can you tell us why?
No idea. The case against him has been uninspired.
Quote from kill-joy »
Again on the attack. Seems like more word twisting, imho.
"What Seppel said was easy to discern. You were the one that chose to misinterpret it."
Quote from kill-joy »
No evidence presented. Why is it?
"Waiting to see if anyone else can see it. Can you?"
Quote from kill-joy »
So, on top of giving no evidence to support this, you imply that I've done something to lump me in with the scum you've already accused.
"I gave no evidence because I wasn't arguing the point. And yes, yes you did."
Quote from kill-joy »
I honestly think theres a lot of suspicious stuff going on here.
I'd like more opinions, but I'm still going to Vote The_Doctor.
"Suspicious or scummy?
You seem insistent on distracting me from MandersHex. Very well, you have my attention. Unvote, Vote: kill-joy"
Quote from kill-joy »
Loran and Iso can't BOTH be scum.
But then he proceeds to tell us how scummy Iso is.
"Don't forget to add that he later tells you how town Iso is."
Quote from kill-joy »
Do you really not at least think it odd that this whole "Loran and X cant both be scum" followed shortly after by "X is scum!" has happened twice?
"So I take it that you think it's possible for at least one of loran and Iso or loran and Manders to be scumbuddies?"
Quote from kill-joy »
And yes, I pointed out how he posts some things without compelling evidence.
"Have I pushed anything without compelling evidence?"
Quote from kill-joy »
But he posts once a day, and has stated that he spends 3-4 hours on some of these posts.
The Doc seems intellegent. One would assume these posts would therefore be well thought out, and planned to at least a moderate degree.
Have you seen a whole lot of reactionary spur-of-the moment-posts from him this game? Because I haven't.
"I told you it's not important right now as it's just conjecture without much supporting evidence. (Hence, why I made a note for myself to go back and look at once some more alignments are known.) I'm not actively pursuing the matter, so I don't see why you feel the need to get so defensive about it."
It just felt odd to me. I thought you were putting it there for a different reason.
"Alright, there's something to which I'm dying to know the answer. Why is it that each time I tried a clever strategy to determine if people are actually reading the thread, you decide to quote it and call attention to it with either a smiley or large bold text - thus rendering the strategy completely moot?"
Even with that I'm one of the few who follow it.
I won't anymore, now that I know why you're doing it.
"Yes, and?"
You reamed me later on for making that assumption. Yet you do it yourself.
"Quite the opposite, actually. A more accurate description would be that I repel them."
Yea, sorry. I was thinking "distance them". IDK why I wrote connects.
"You obviously don't have enough game play experience to realize why the point is still valid. Catching one scum and forming a wagon on them = easily within the realm of possibility. Can two be wagoned early day 1, yes? Could it theoretically happen? Yes. Would there be enough support to get one of them to L-2 then the other to 3? Almost certainly not."[/quotw]
Hm. Ok.
[quote]
"Actually, that's exactly what Manders said and meant. Not to mention she's verified that a couple times already since then."
Ok, my bad.
"Another victim of the 'interesting' tell, mayhap?
You are obviously not familiar with train of thought posting. I pose the questions as I hit the corresponding text. If they happen to answer the question later in the thread, I merely cross it out as it does not need to be answered again and I'll post an analysis of their answer or ask for more clarification.
Finally, is bread-crumbing a good or bad thing? Why would you feel the need to keep trying to find/call attention to it? It's not bread-crumbing, but you seem obsessed with finding breadcrumbs."
From what people have told me it's something scum do.
"You do realize there's such a thing as typos, right? Oh, add to the fact that you knew what I meant. Proof (your original response to the question) is below."
"You started off with the same typo, but by the third sentence, it's clear you knew what I was trying to ask."
Technically mine wasn't a typo, but semantics.
"You just need more experience; don't worry, it will come in time. I won't hold it against you."
Hopefully soon. I'm tired of being a newb.
"Context is key. MandersHex asked me what I hadn't liked about Iso's list. So, I was giving her my reasoning for saying that. You know, the time before Iso made his 'proof I'm likely town' post."
I'll have to do a reread to see if I can see what you mean.
"Trying to figure out what plays scum make is a good idea. However, that isn't what this quote is about. Here's the full context:"
"You were defending against why you shouldn't be considered scum."
My intent was to present an argument as to what scum would do in my situation. Came out wrong, I guess.
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I understand what you're trying to say correctly: it's more likely that the town caught two scum and has enough support to form wagons on both of them over at least one of them being a false wagon?"
No, what I was saying was that you yourself made the assumption that there were only 3 scum.
"Guess what? Some people work. Those same people may be working off multiple computers at work and at home. You know what else? Maybe they work in a company that bans access to all sites like google docs. So what's the easiest way to keep notes? Oh yeah, put them in the thread.
My point was theres many ways to take notes without putting it on the thread. Notebook and pencil is one.
Do you have a problem with me putting all of my notes in the thread as I'm playing?
If the reason your doing it is as you said above, no.
I was seeing a more sinister reason behind it is all.
"Waiting to see if anyone else can see it. Can you?"
Nothing jumped out at me on the reread.
And yes, yes you did."
What did I do that makes me scummy?
"Suspicious or scummy?
You seem insistent on distracting me from MandersHex. Very well, you have my attention. Unvote, Vote: kill-joy"
Not my intention actually. My intention was to get my opinion out there, but I'm afraid my noobieness lead me to some bad conclusions.
"So I take it that you think it's possible for at least one of loran and Iso or loran and Manders to be scumbuddies?"
Entirely possible, yes. I'm not quite as sure as you are that Loran is town quite yet. Manders and Iso I'm not 100% on either, as a matter of fact. Closer than Loran though.
"Have I pushed anything without compelling evidence?"
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
And yes, I pointed out how he posts some things without compelling evidence.
But he posts once a day, and has stated that he spends 3-4 hours on some of these posts.
The Doc seems intellegent. One would assume these posts would therefore be well thought out, and planned to at least a moderate degree.
Have you seen a whole lot of reactionary spur-of-the moment-posts from him this game? Because I haven't.
"How does quoting the same sample of post repeatedly prove that he's not paying attention to the thread or that his story is going criss-cross"
I was defending Iso. He said I could be town attacking Iso or scum bussing him. Bussing/attacking is not defending. Nothing he said makes sense in the context of his argument. HE IS MAKING **** UP.
You don't have to see it as valid, you don't have a vote, so I don't exactly feel the need to convince you as strongly of what I believe in this game as much as I would need to convince someone with one. Not to say you aren't going to be useful in scumhunting. You're just not going to be able to aid in lynching. So instead of focusing on the way I've always addressed accusations (being prior to them occurring), why don't you focus on finding scum and convincing me and the other townies of their scumminess?
Forum mafia, yes. Real life mafia and IRC mafia, no. This version, in my opinion, is much more skill-intensive.
I totally agree. And now let me ask you this, what do you think of Iso's setting arguments up ahead of time method?
ALARM BELLS.
:toot::toot:
I couldn't find bells, so I just got party hats instead.
Wow. You want someone who doesn't agree with me to tell you that they agree with me. And I'm Yossarian.
You, Manders and Iso seem deeply connected with each other. I would like someone who isn't you three to view the situation. Quit trying to twist my words around.
You'll do anything to look town to me, huh? You should act like you do as town. Why is it such a concern to you?
No, not the point. You are putting words in my mouth. Clearly I don't understand why you think PF is a townie. I see mostly nonsence from him.
P.S. Please explain how Iso's lack of best practices in relation to revealing parts of his role qualifies as (1) fishing and (2) scummy behavior.
I dont understand the question. Why is Iso's fishing a scummy behavior?
This is my second game of forum mafia, and the other one is currently ongoing. I've played IRL and on IRC, but I don't have an established meta yet, aside from how I played IRL and on IRC, so...nothing to reference. The only person who would know is Seppel.
Good to know, however until you are dead I remain the right to then keep my vote on you.. (you know if I had one...)
See above. And Seppel wouldn't hesitate to attempt to lynch me if he thought I were scum, I know that for a fact.
There is too much talk of you two being brothers it is really really starting to bother me. Wonderful that he will lynch you if you are scum. What if you both are scum then? Would he bus you? See it doesn't matter.. It is all WIFOM.
As for your statement about wanting to hear from somebody aside from Seppel who isn't barning Seppel regarding my mafia playing, well, not only are you not going to be able to find anyone who falls under that category (as MandersHex is agreeing with Seppel and the only other person who knows anything about me outside of the forums is Nikomaru [and he's not in this game]), that's essentially asking, "Hey, can anyone help me paint Iso as scum?" What's the matter, your points not strong enough on their own? Or are you giving up?
That isn't what I was asking.. Geeze. See above to my reply to your BROTHER. You, manders and BROTHER are too entwined. I cant trust any of you. I need the opinion of someone that isn't you three. Why am I wrong for asking?
So my external speculation is now fishing? I wasn't expecting an answer to a rhetorical question. I wasn't asking for any information from anyway. I was telling people to consider the possibility and be wary of what it may entail. So yes, for clarification, I have a good ability, since you've gone deep-sea fishing on that subject, and I'm not willing to lose it just yet, as I address in this post."
I didn't go deep sea fishing. I went to the shore lines and picked up a pearl on the side of the banks. YOU are the one to blame for having it be known you have an ability, I am calling you out on it. It is not my fault you posted what you did.
Umm, nobody? Everyone plays the game the way they want to play the game, that doesn't mean I can't input my advice to help some of the newer town players out.
This is your second fourm mafia game. Either you are a noob playing mafia or you are a master teaching everyone else. You cannot be both. Choose one.
I never agreed with Reya activating his trigger, but unless I had a daykill PR, what could I have done to stop him? Unless his prior ability was detrimental to town, then I would definitely advocate him activating his trigger, assuming it helped town. I see your logic, but currently, I'm content with my ability and don't intend for it to go anywhere for the time being.
Your assumtions here are flawed. (Reguarding Reya) And whoopie for your ability.
...what? I'm sorry, I'm just not understanding the way you constructed this sentence, but let me try to respond to it to the best of my ability. I wasn't giving away any information about my role, it was intended to be viewed as speculation.
But you WERE giving out information of your role.
But since you've BLATANTLY POINTED OUT that I don't want to lose my ability,
I called you out on it because I think you are scum... Sorry for being all townie on you.
I see no reason to keep that fact under wraps.
Well duh, you would have only looked more scummier if you tried to deny it.
But I have no intention of revealing what my ability is yet, for reasons I will not disclose. Just know that it's not something I'm willing to lose yet, as it can help the town if it comes down to it being activated.
And no one is demanding that you reveal your ability. Clearly if you ever get to L-2 that would be a good time to say something... Do you really think I set out for you to reveal your ability? Why would you think that?
I understand that you think that, but that's just how I play the game, for the reasons I gave when I addressed this in a prior statement. On that note, I do reference prior statements.
Ok so we both agree, someone who has something to hide would generally create arguments ahead of time to combat them.
You were just unwilling/unable to find said posts. I've had a rough week and very little sleep, been working 12-hour shifts that end at 7 in the morning, didn't get back from DC 'til 7 in the morning on Saturday because I went the wrong way and ended up in Maryland. So if I don't want to find the posts I'm referring to, pardon me if I seem a bit irritable when asked to A. tell you which posts they were, and B. have to repeat myself. As I've already made it quite evident, I have no contention with finding YOUR posts that I intend to reference, so I'm not asking something of you I'm not willing to do, myself. It's just obnoxious. I don't even know why I'm still up and posting right now, I have to get up at 8 to go to court in the morning and afshsdgl;sajdf I haven't slept decently in a year and a half. I should probably start trying to do that.
We all have busy lives what makes you think im here all day posting nonsence every other post?
PF, I can see. Manders, probably not. Reya, I'm kind of up in the air right now about Reya based on recent posts and the second vote on SP. Yes, Reya said it was accidental, but I'm watching him. Would you like me to analyze Reya's posts? You haven't made too much of a case on anyone, IIRC, aside from pinkfloyd, which consisted of "you are not productive". Maybe that's the not sleep robbing me of my memory of your posts. I'll re-read after I post this. But my offer to do a PBPA of Reya still stands. On that note, however, I am wary of your scum choices because I'm not liking your alignment in my eyes, currently.
Like I said earlier you and manders are entwined. I expect you both to be unaware of each other.
I'll take a line from your brother above.. [sarcasm]You see like you are trying to please me here... [/sarcasm]
Anyways, yes whenver I have time I think Reya and PF are really good options to persue. Like yourself, I just don't have the time to answer the walls of text from you and ur bro and then have a life. However Reya's comments of "im activating my monkier now" just seems really shady. He could have asked what we would think would happen. He could have tried to do it behind our backs.. but he didn't so that means he gets ++ points?? I dono I just dont like how that went down. And like you said, there was nothing anyone could do to prevent it from happening.. (Which makes me think it would be in a townies role but that is gaming the mod..)
Because it's scummy.
Ok.. but why the dramatic NOTED!! DOUBLE SUPER NOTED!!?? Like why post that?
Then I guess that makes me a scummy player when I'm town. Apples and oranges.
Well I guess we'll see when you end up dead.
"Hey, let me point out that I think Iso might not want to lose his ability, and we'll see how he reacts oh he doesn't want to lose it hmm"
^ Because wanting to help town is such a scum tell.
Pointing out that a scum has an ability is very helpful to the town.
I've made lists, pressured people and even made claims. Just because over the last 2 or 3 pages I've made a couple of irrelevant posts doesn't mean I'm posting complete nonsense.
ROJA, QUICK, LOOK, I FOUND A NONSENSE POST, KILL THIS SCUM NOW!!
p.s., that was sarcasm
OMG!! VOTE PINKFLOYD
Thats bolded if you can't tell!
Private Mod Note
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Thanks goes out to DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Doc vs Kill thing? I am not seeing ANY sort of doc vs kill thing. If anything I see them agreeing on all points. if anything i am seeing a Doc vs Seppel thing.
As far as taking a post out of context, you did take it out of context. All kill was doing was explaining to seppel what Doc said, and then you go and turn it into a mudsling post on Kill-joy.
Doc vs Kill thing? I am not seeing ANY sort of doc vs kill thing. If anything I see them agreeing on all points. if anything i am seeing a Doc vs Seppel thing.
Ok, I have a bunch of quotes posted and have started to put it together, but I have another game that has a deadline that requires my attention. I'll post here, adding anything that occurs between now and then, tomorrow morning.
Ok, I have a bunch of quotes posted and have started to put it together, but I have another game that has a deadline that requires my attention. I'll post here, adding anything that occurs between now and then, tomorrow morning.
Sorry
Its cool manders, I don't think we have a deadline...
Ok, I have a bunch of quotes posted and have started to put it together, but I have another game that has a deadline that requires my attention. I'll post here, adding anything that occurs between now and then, tomorrow morning.
There is too much talk of you two being brothers it is really really starting to bother me. Wonderful that he will lynch you if you are scum. What if you both are scum then? Would he bus you? See it doesn't matter.. It is all WIFOM.
Well I'M TOWN and if you look at my play in Star Trek EU you will see so many similarities between my play there and Iso's play there.
That isn't what I was asking.. Geeze. See above to my reply to your BROTHER. You, manders and BROTHER are too entwined. I cant trust any of you. I need the opinion of someone that isn't you three. Why am I wrong for asking?
So are you indicating that you feel loran is scum? Because your vote is on Tanarin, IIRC. So do you feel that Manders and I are scum, too? Which of us is more likely to be scum, and why? Because these are your implications.
I did twice however I was summing up what Iso thinks of me in his eyes.
Your interpretation of it, you mean.
Quote from Roja »
There is too much talk of you two being brothers it is really really starting to bother me. Wonderful that he will lynch you if you are scum. What if you both are scum then? Would he bus you? See it doesn't matter.. It is all WIFOM.
I'm basing that on Seppel's meta, not just IRL interactions.
Quote from Roja »
That isn't what I was asking.. Geeze. See above to my reply to your BROTHER. You, manders and BROTHER are too entwined. I cant trust any of you. I need the opinion of someone that isn't you three. Why am I wrong for asking?
I'm just sayin', good luck finding the input you're looking for.
Quote from Roja »
This is your second fourm mafia game. Either you are a noob playing mafia or you are a master teaching everyone else. You cannot be both. Choose one.
I claim to be neither. I'm already learning a lot from my first game on the forums. So I'm seeing a lot of stuff I did early on in that game in some of what's being done here, mistakes I made, poor logic and playing presumptions. What's wrong with wanting to help out other new townies?
Quote from Roja »
Your assumtions here are flawed. (Reguarding Reya) And whoopie for your ability.
Point of this statement?
Quote from Roja »
But you WERE giving out information of your role.
Not intentionally. It was intended to be viewed as just speculation, as I stated.
Quote from Roja »
Do you really think I set out for you to reveal your ability? Why would you think that?[/QUOTE
Not directly, but more subtly through your fishing. I wouldn't expect you to demand a claim until a more opportune time (such as L-2) so as to avoid suspicion. Why? Because, as I said, you're behaving scummily.
[QUOTE=Roja]Ok so we both agree, someone who has something to hide would generally create arguments ahead of time to combat them.
Uhh...no? Where did I indicate any sort of agreement with that statement at all?
Quote from Roja »
I'll take a line from your brother above.. [sarcasm]You see like you are trying to please me here... [/sarcasm]
Why would I do that if I feel you're scummy? I was giving my genuine reads on the players and the reasoning you put behind listing them as scum candidates.
Quote from Roja »
Ok.. but why the dramatic NOTED!! DOUBLE SUPER NOTED!!?? Like why post that?
To get others to read more into what you're saying. If I think you're scummy, why wouldn't I want to cast suspicion on you, call attention to what you're saying, and see what the other townies gather from it?
Quote from Roja »
Well I guess we'll see when you end up dead.
Why are you so confident I'm going to die?
Quote from Roja »
Pointing out that a scum has an ability is very helpful to the town.
So why would you point out that a townie has an ability (if you say "I didn't" or something to that effect in an attempt to be clever, I'm going to smack you through the internet.)? That's just detrimental to town. Pah, am I the only one seeing this?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
This was analyzing what the doc said. So no, not says me. Says him.
Why are you trying to attribute this to me?
Wasn't it your words claiming "Manders and Loran can't BOTH be scum, Loran and Iso can't BOTH be scum" ? I'm pretty sure it wasn't a quote...
The point I was making here was that later in the post I showed how he reamed me for assuming there was only 3 scum in the game.
My comment was just a statement that I believe there are only 3 scum players in the game.
Due to the fact that you quoted me, it's not a far jump to assume that you read it. I believe you're taking these things out of context on purpose.
Trust me, I am not making a case against you or doc.
Challenge Accepted.
Unvote. Vote Pinkfloyd.
Any real reason or??
Quote from Iso »
So are you indicating that you feel loran is scum? Because your vote is on Tanarin, IIRC. So do you feel that Manders and I are scum, too? Which of us is more likely to be scum, and why? Because these are your implications.
No, I'm just saying that nothing has been proved yet. I do not think that you and manders are scum.
Wasn't it your words claiming "Manders and Loran can't BOTH be scum, Loran and Iso can't BOTH be scum" ? I'm pretty sure it wasn't a quote...
No, it wasn't a quote. I was reinstating what the Doc said.
My comment was just a statement that I believe there are only 3 scum players in the game.
Oh, ok. It sounded like you were saying "I came to this conclusion too, so you're wrong."
Trust me, I am not making a case against you or doc.
See, thats the thing. I don't trust you. You're kinda lurky and the post I responded to by you didn't help.
Any real reason or??
As of this moment, I think you're scum. You took what I said completely out of context, and it seems like you are attempting to misconstrue what I really did say.
That, and the general lurkyness.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
No, it wasn't a quote. I was reinstating what the Doc said.
Okay, well, I apologize. I looked at what was written and didn't see it in a quote so assumed you stated that.
See, thats the thing. I don't trust you. You're kinda lurky and the post I responded to by you didn't help.
By "lurk" do you mean the ammount of posts I make or something else?
As of this moment, I think you're scum. You took what I said completely out of context, and it seems like you are attempting to misconstrue what I really did say.
That, and the general lurkyness.
But do you really think I am the scummiest and deserve to be lynched day 1?
Okay, well, I apologize. I looked at what was written and didn't see it in a quote so assumed you stated that.
Sure.
By "lurk" do you mean the ammount of posts I make or something else?
Not just the amount, but content as well.
You seem to be waiting for someone to be really scummy. Why are you sitting back and waiting? What good does that do town?
But do you really think I am the scummiest and deserve to be lynched day 1?
Scum needs to be lynched. Who else would you lynch today?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Not just the amount, but content as well.
You seem to be waiting for someone to be really scummy. Why are you sitting back and waiting? What good does that do town?
I've claimed both Loran and Tanarin are scum, that's 2/3.... And quite frankly I just want to lynch one so the game keeps going and gives more to post about.
Scum needs to be lynched. Who else would you lynch today?
I'm voting tanarin, but loran is also a great option
I won't anymore, now that I know why you're doing it.
"That doesn't quite help now, does it? The damage has already been done twice. You also didn't actually answer the question. Why in the world did you call those bits out in the first place?"
Quote from kill=joy »
You reamed me later on for making that assumption. Yet you do it yourself.
"No, I most certainly did not. This is a blatant misrepresentation of what happened. Below is the full exchange:"
Quote from kill-joy »
Or Loran unlocked his memory that took away the double vote count thing.
One of the two.
The first is more likely though, due to how the mod listed the names on the count.
Quote from The_Doctor »
"Or one of any number of more likely scenarios."
Quote from kill-joy »
I seem to consider even the unlikely scenarios. The most obvious is usually not a path scum would take, anyway.
Quote from The_Doctor »
"Scum will take whichever path they believe gives them the best chances of winning. It doesn't always mean they'll be right, but this rule is the one constant that you know about scum behavior. Rather than coming up with 20 theories will little supporting evidence, you are much more likely to be on the right track with one or two theories that are much simpler. For example, you yourself mentioned the possibility of the Tanarin wagon being a scum wagon that wouldn't all be scum. You are making an assumption that there are less than four scum in the game. Until we have evidence to the contrary, it is a valid assumption. Occam's razor is a very helpful tool in this regard."
Quote from kill-joy »
From what people have told me it's something scum do.
"What do you consider to be bread-crumbing?"
Quote from kill-joy »
I was seeing a more sinister reason behind it is all.
"And what reason is that, pray tell?"
Quote from kill-joy »
What did I do that makes me scummy?
"Well, your extremely horrible case against me is a huge point, but the original point I was mentioning was in the post I quoted when you started this whole fracas."
Quote from kill-joy »
Not my intention actually. My intention was to get my opinion out there, but I'm afraid my noobieness lead me to some bad conclusions.
"So at this point are you backing off from thinking I'm scum or not?"
Quote from kill-joy »
Entirely possible, yes. I'm not quite as sure as you are that Loran is town quite yet. Manders and Iso I'm not 100% on either, as a matter of fact. Closer than Loran though.
"As for loran and Iso, you will have to be able to justify loran's continued attacks on Iso until the fated Iso post. Whereas for Manders and loran, you will have to justify Manders not understanding loran's it was either trigger or ability. Can't remember which."
Quote from Seppel »
So he thinks both Manders and Iso are scum.
"Actually, I don't think Iso is scum. People seem to be confusing the statement that the players can't be scum together with the statement that one of them is scum. The two are not identical by a long shot."
Quote from Roja »
You, Manders and Iso seem deeply connected with each other. I would like someone who isn't you three to view the situation. Quit trying to twist my words around.
"Reading the thread would remedy this situation."
Quote from kill-joy »
Why are you taking them out of context?
"*cough* Pot, kettle *cough*"
Quote from kill-joy »
So you enforce that theory by taking what I said out of context? That's scummy.
"Glad you agree."
Quote from kill-joy »
If anything I see them agreeing on all points. if anything i am seeing a Doc vs Seppel thing.
"Then you need to get your eyeglasses prescription redone."
Quote from kill-joy »
Challenge Accepted.
Unvote. Vote Pinkfloyd.
"Ha, worse vote than Tanarin's on the Iso wagon. Please people, kill-joy needs more votes."
Quote from kill-joy »
This vote is absolute garbage.
I am now The Police because I'm sendin' out an FoS.
"A vote would be more effective at this junction."
"Now, for the questions of mine that kill-joy did not answer:
1) Why do you feel the need to get defensive about me insinuating that you are scum with Manders?
2) What's the reason/logic behind posting this:"
Quote from kill-joy »
But he posts once a day, and has stated that he spends 3-4 hours on some of these posts.
The Doc seems intellegent. One would assume these posts would therefore be well thought out, and planned to at least a moderate degree.
Have you seen a whole lot of reactionary spur-of-the moment-posts from him this game? Because I haven't.
I've claimed both Loran and Tanarin are scum, that's 2/3.... And quite frankly I just want to lynch one so the game keeps going and gives more to post about.
I'm voting tanarin, but loran is also a great option
I'm not ready to make that choice just yet.
We will see how things go though.
"That doesn't quite help now, does it? The damage has already been done twice. You also didn't actually answer the question. Why in the world did you call those bits out in the first place?"
1) I only recall doing it once.
2) Because I thought the strategy suspicious.
"No, I most certainly did not. This is a blatant misrepresentation of what happened. Below is the full exchange:"
That wasn't even the exchange at all.
It was refering to me making the assumption that there aren't more than three scum in this game.
"Let's state some analysis of the situation at hand. The following players are not going to both be scum: loran and Iso (for the reason that no scum is going to bus their buddy this hard with the exception of Seppel when he forgots his team), Iso and Tanarin (there is no way that the game would have enough steam to get 2 of 3 scum wagoned early day 1)."
Here you say 2 of the 3 scum. This means you're making the assumption that there are only 3 scum.
"Scum will take whichever path they believe gives them the best chances of winning. It doesn't always mean they'll be right, but this rule is the one constant that you know about scum behavior. Rather than coming up with 20 theories will little supporting evidence, you are much more likely to be on the right track with one or two theories that are much simpler. For example, you yourself mentioned the possibility of the Tanarin wagon being a scum wagon that wouldn't all be scum. You are making an assumption that there are less than four scum in the game. Until we have evidence to the contrary, it is a valid assumption. Ockham's razor is a very helpful tool in this regard."
Bolded for emphasis.
Like I said, you reamed me for making that assumption.
"What do you consider to be bread-crumbing?"
Doing things with no apperent reason that seem to be implying that something else along those lines are coming in the future.
"And what reason is that, pray tell?"
I didn't know yet. Like I said, I thought you were breadcrumbing it. (See above for description on that)
"Well, your extremely horrible case against me is a huge point, but the original point I was mentioning was in the post I quoted when you started this whole fracas."
The extremely horrible case is just that. A badly thought out case.
Like you said, I'm inexperienced. I don't know the kinds of choices scum make in this game.
Can you requote it? I don't remember which post that was.
"So at this point are you backing off from thinking I'm scum or not?"
At this point I've decided to wait until I get more of a case as to whether you're scum or not.
"As for loran and Iso, you will have to be able to justify loran's continued attacks on Iso until the fated Iso post. Whereas for Manders and loran, you will have to justify Manders not understanding loran's it was either trigger or ability. Can't remember which."
Noted.
And I don't remember Manders not understanding that.
I recall Reya not understanding when we were still in RVS, but I think that's not what you're talking about.
"*cough* Pot, kettle *cough*"
Pretty sure I never took them out of context. Just made a bad case, is all.
"Then you need to get your eyeglasses prescription redone."
I never said that. That was Tanarin.
Why are you attributing that to me?
"Ha, worse vote than Tanarin's on the Iso wagon. Please people, kill-joy needs more votes."
Since you quoted my responses to him, I think you know why I voted him.
So then, why is the vote bad?
"A vote would be more effective at this junction."
This was Seppel.
"Now, for the questions of mine that kill-joy did not answer:
1) Why do you feel the need to get defensive about me insinuating that you are scum with Manders?
The way you did it rubbed me the wrong way.
I'm was trying to figure out you're whole "sitting in a tree" thing, plus at that point you hadn't given me any reason to think you actually thought I was scum.
2) What's the reason/logic behind posting this:"[/QUOTE]
Because you only post once a day, and said once that you sometimes take 3-4 hours to write your posts.
And yet you posted a few things with no supporting evidence.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
So, my husband is downloading a new anti-virus, and it is taking FOREVER, so the computer is off limits until that's done. I'll try to keep up, but that big post will have to wait, and the game with the deadline in 4 days gets priority. Apologies.
And, no, Seppel, I am not becoming RtA Manders. I promise.
If you really think we're scum then why am I defending him?
Quote from loran »
Well this is a bit of WIFOM that's not worth going into.
Quote from Seppel »
It's kind of the crux of your argument so yeah if you yourself are calling it WIFOM then wow.
Quote from loran »
Huh? Your alignment has nothing to do with my argument against him. You could be scum bussing him or town actually attacking him...and his reaction doesn't change and nor does his play stop being scummy.
Quote from Seppel »
Ahahaha. You can't even get your story straight.
You're not even paying attention to the thread.
Ok, I did this to try to see what the hell is going on with this.
Seppel put some pressure on pf awhile ago.
Seppel now says pf is town because he was scared.
loran says pf isn't scared town but scared scum, and that Seppel is scum.
Seppel asks loran why Seppel is defending pf.
loran says that's WIFOM he's not getting into.
Seppel says if the crux of the argument is WIFOM, what does that say for the argument?
loran says Seppel's alignment has nothing to do with his thoughts on pf, and that pf is still scummy regardless of whether Seppel's town or scum.
What I feel is going on is Seppel is town, pressured pf for a reaction, and is satisfied because Seppel doesn't knowingly put pressure on one of his buddies first. (I say knowingly because he has forgotten who is on his scum team before) This is a very town action for Seppel. So, for loran to ignore the defending Seppel is doing now (which, again, is not something he does as scum to a scumbuddy) has convinced him loran is scum.
I do need to know one thing, Seppel. Do you recognize that scum wanting to hide from pressure is a common practice? (I'm pretty sure I know why pf's response made you think he's town, btw, and I say eh, could be.)
Also, why do you have to be so damn complex?
Now, loran, since you proclaim to have so much experience with Seppel, I would like for you to answer the question that you said was WIFOM. Why is Seppel defending pf if they are both scum?
And the scum motivation? False claiming anything later in the game. Going back to your day 1 post of "oh crap" to clear whatever lie you might wanna tell.
Thank you for thinking I could be capable of thinking of that caliber. You give me way too much credit, though.
Quote from Roja »
Well if there is a role that triggers off of monkiers maybe there is something that triggers off of other triggers? Gaming the mod, but not something that is unlikely.
Pfft, even if there is, it probably has to do with people activating their triggers. No one can do anything to make my trigger activate but me. So, if you have nothing else, we'll drop that.
Quote from Roja »
Now being wrong about Iso wouldn't get you down right lynched.. I think anyone who has that mindset wouldn't be that helpful in the game of Mafia. The game fluxes.. However not having any opinion is why im still upset with your stance with Iso.
Which is precisely why I said I would expect pressure (if not to be outright lynched). There would be a case and a fight before I got lynched. I obviously don't have that mindset, so why did you bring it up?
And, I have provided some opinions on Iso. Yes, I'm barning Seppel, too, but I've shown some of my own reasons. Plus, his 303, the idea he had on my trigger? That does, absolutely, come from a town mindset. So just drop it.
Quote from Roja »
I never really thought of it that way. I mean not wanting to reply and not posting content I can see as the same thing. ok.
Ok.
Quote from Roja »
Ok fine. I was just seeing how you would have reacted and Im satisfied.
And what, pray tell, has satisfied you about my reactions?
Quote from Roja »
I bolded the part again where I see you are fishing for info. People who comment could give you info about their own role. Sure you could be asking what other people think.. But it's about their OWN ROLE. Not only that you add a little panic to get people talking. OMG I dont want to lose my role! DONT ACTIVATE MY TRIGGER.
But, see, here's my problem with this. I didn't notice or care that he was hinting at his own role with that. YOU have made that quite obvious, not him. And I don't like that one bit.
No, it's not natural because the sentence without the qualifier of it being a 'town' wagon was still a valid sentence. As such, I was trying to determine the thinking behind it.
Just because it was still a valid sentence without that qualifier does not mean that it was not natural for me to be thinking town.
Quote from The_Doctor »
"So then why are you so convinced right now that he's town as opposed to a neutral? The only players that would have any clue right now as to whether there's any neutrals in the game would be scum."
How would scum (Mafia) have any idea there is a neutral in the game?
Quote from The_Doctor »
"I'm willing to call you on this obvious bluff."
Not a bluff, but go for it. Just don't expect me to roll over and die.
Quote from The_Doctor »
"You were bemoaning the thought that if you were lynched and turned up town, nobody would pay attention to your analysis that Seppel was town. I was stating that for me that it would be quite the opposite."
Did I? I don't recall that. But, no, if I die, when I flip town, I'm sure some people will put merit behind my thoughts.
Quote from The_Doctor »
"On Day 1, only scum and mason variants have the ability to deal in absolutes."
Right, but I'm not talking about a game-wise absolute. I'm talking about guaranteeing if you think someone is scum or not. And, I'm saying that, by our conversation earlier, just because you vote someone does not necessarily mean you are convinced they are scum.
"Alright, there's something to which I'm dying to know the answer. Why is it that each time I tried a clever strategy to determine if people are actually reading the thread, you decide to quote it and call attention to it with either a smiley or large bold text - thus rendering the strategy completely moot?"
What response were you expecting from him on this?
Quote from The_Doctor »
"Actually, that's exactly what Manders said and meant. Not to mention she's verified that a couple times already since then."
Yup.
Quote from The_Doctor »
"Waiting to see if anyone else can see it. Can you?"
I'm not sure what you're going for with this, either, tbh.
If everyone could title their next post the name of their favorite Magic card, I would appreciate it very much.
It just felt odd to me. I thought you were putting it there for a different reason.
Even with that I'm one of the few who follow it.
I won't anymore, now that I know why you're doing it.
You reamed me later on for making that assumption. Yet you do it yourself.
Yea, sorry. I was thinking "distance them". IDK why I wrote connects.
Hm. Ok.
Ok, my bad.
From what people have told me it's something scum do.
Technically mine wasn't a typo, but semantics.
Hopefully soon. I'm tired of being a newb.
I'll have to do a reread to see if I can see what you mean.
My intent was to present an argument as to what scum would do in my situation. Came out wrong, I guess.
No, what I was saying was that you yourself made the assumption that there were only 3 scum.
My point was theres many ways to take notes without putting it on the thread. Notebook and pencil is one.
If the reason your doing it is as you said above, no.
I was seeing a more sinister reason behind it is all.
Nothing jumped out at me on the reread.
What did I do that makes me scummy?
Not my intention actually. My intention was to get my opinion out there, but I'm afraid my noobieness lead me to some bad conclusions.
Entirely possible, yes. I'm not quite as sure as you are that Loran is town quite yet. Manders and Iso I'm not 100% on either, as a matter of fact. Closer than Loran though.
I suppose not.
This entire post reads as if you've realized that you were probably wrong about The_Doctor. It has an entire air of defeat. So, why didn't you unvote?
You, Manders and Iso seem deeply connected with each other. I would like someone who isn't you three to view the situation. Quit trying to twist my words around.
Someone already has.
Aside from the fact, yes, Iso, Seppel and I are quite connected outside of the game. We all love each other very much as friends. That has no bearing on our alignments here or how we'll play the game towards each other. If any of us think one of the others is scum (and we are town), then we will not hesitate to pressure and, eventually, lynch them. After all, this is just a game, and we know not to take anything personal.
Quote from Roja »
There is too much talk of you two being brothers it is really really starting to bother me. Wonderful that he will lynch you if you are scum. What if you both are scum then? Would he bus you? See it doesn't matter.. It is all WIFOM.
That isn't what I was asking.. Geeze. See above to my reply to your BROTHER. You, manders and BROTHER are too entwined. I cant trust any of you. I need the opinion of someone that isn't you three. Why am I wrong for asking?
I'll take a line from your brother above.. [sarcasm]You see like you are trying to please me here... [/sarcasm]
YOU are the only one putting so much emphasis on them being brothers. Are you trying to discredit their in-game feelings on one another just because they're related?
1) I only recall doing it once.
2) Because I thought the strategy suspicious.
How so? He said, right when he said what to do, what he was doing. How is it suspicious to put in a post a way to verify if people are reading or skimming?
Quote from kill-joy »
Bolded for emphasis.
Like I said, you reamed me for making that assumption.
You call that being reamed?
At this point I've decided to wait until I get more of a case as to whether you're scum or not.
Then why did you vote for him?
Quote from kill-joy »
And I don't remember Manders not understanding that.
He's talking about when Alpha posted the vote count showing Loran only had one vote, and I asked if that was right, then Loran responded that yes, it is, yes, he knows why, and no, he's not sharing. Loran responding as such absolutely points to us not having communication outside of the game. (Because, if I were scum, I would have access to Loran's role PM, I'm sure.)
Because you only post once a day, and said once that you sometimes take 3-4 hours to write your posts.
And yet you posted a few things with no supporting evidence.
Please quote what things he's posted with NO supporting evidence.
This is part of what I'm saying. I don't really recall him doing a whole lot of this, if really at all.
This entire post reads as if you've realized that you were probably wrong about The_Doctor. It has an entire air of defeat. So, why didn't you unvote?
Indeed I am probably wrong about him.
Why didn't I unvote? Simple. I forgot.
I haven't voted all that much this game, and therefore forgot the need to unvote.
Why do you care so much?
I was making a point when I posted those things.
If you take them out of context, as PF did, they can easily be misconstrued.
This is not just garbage, Seps. This is scummy.
Unvote, Vote: kill-joy
I would like you to look at the posts I refered Seppel to, and answer the same question. Why is it garbage, exactly?
How so? He said, right when he said what to do, what he was doing. How is it suspicious to put in a post a way to verify if people are reading or skimming?
Even if he said why he was doing it, he could have been lying about the reason. I called it out and he responded in a way that caused me to drop suspicion.
You call that being reamed?
Let me rephrase then.
"One of his points to me was contridicted by something he said earlier"
Then why did you vote for him?
I believe I voted during my initial post, and the quote is part of my response to his response.
He's talking about when Alpha posted the vote count showing Loran only had one vote, and I asked if that was right, then Loran responded that yes, it is, yes, he knows why, and no, he's not sharing. Loran responding as such absolutely points to us not having communication outside of the game. (Because, if I were scum, I would have access to Loran's role PM, I'm sure.)
Right! I forgot about that.
Please quote what things he's posted with NO supporting evidence.
"A bit more of information - Roja is now looking town more now than ever before."
This one is the first that came to mind.
He didn't provide evidence as to why Roja is town when he wrote it.
Which, along with what you quoted, you will see that due to the fact that he only posts once a day and takes so long on his posts, I found it odd that he didn't provide evidence to this point.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Indeed I am probably wrong about him.
Why didn't I unvote? Simple. I forgot.
I haven't voted all that much this game, and therefore forgot the need to unvote.
Mhm
I was making a point when I posted those things.
If you take them out of context, as PF did, they can easily be misconstrued.
So?
I would like you to look at the posts I refered Seppel to, and answer the same question. Why is it garbage, exactly?
Oh, I don't need to look at the posts to answer that.
It's garbage because you used that as an excuse to get off the horribly bad The_Doctor wagon you tried to start.
Even if he said why he was doing it, he could have been lying about the reason. I called it out and he responded in a way that caused me to drop suspicion.
Bolded for emphasis.
Bull****. You didn't call anything out. You made a spectacle of what he did, but you never said anything about it until he asked you why you made a spectacle of it.
Let me rephrase then.
"One of his points to me was contridicted by something he said earlier"
That's not a very good rephrase either. That wasn't one of his points.
I believe I voted during my initial post, and the quote is part of my response to his response.
That doesn't answer my question.
WHY DID YOU VOTE FOR HIM?
This one is the first that came to mind.
He didn't provide evidence as to why Roja is town when he wrote it.
Which, along with what you quoted, you will see that due to the fact that he only posts once a day and takes so long on his posts, I found it odd that he didn't provide evidence to this point.
He usually does.
Not really. Look at his posts again. When he's deciding someone's town, he's pretty tight-lipped on why unless he's pushed for reasons.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Would their win condition say something about it, possibly?
Every time I've been scum, I had no indication of if there were neutrals or not. And I was scum in Alpha's last game. So I'd be really surprised if it did.
I did read it. I just responded before I read it. I didn't realize there were more posts after Seppel's that I responded to for some reason. Dx
I'm not a fan of when people take what I say out of context.
People seem to have a habit of not reading this forum, as the Doc, Loran, and you have pointed out. If people take what I say out of context, how can I be sure that the person who responds to it actually read the original posts.
Oh, I don't need to look at the posts to answer that.
It's garbage because you used that as an excuse to get off the horribly bad The_Doctor wagon you tried to start.
Like I said, I didn't think of unvoting at the time. Look how many total times I've voted before this. Like in my mafia career. I don't do it that much. I'm likely to, and in this case did, forget.
That being said, had I remembered I wouldn't be "getting off the Doc wagon" because I wouldn't have been on a wagon when I voted PF.
And the reasons I voted PF are in those posts.
Bull****. You didn't call anything out. You made a spectacle of what he did, but you never said anything about it until he asked you why you made a spectacle of it.
Ok, I will rephrase again.
I pointed it out because I saw it as odd.
That's not a very good rephrase either. That wasn't one of his points.
I'm sorry... What?
That doesn't answer my question.
WHY DID YOU VOTE FOR HIM?
Because due to that post, which I felt was completely valid when I wrote it, were reasons I thought he was scum. Hence the vote.
Not really. Look at his posts again. When he's deciding someone's town, he's pretty tight-lipped on why unless he's pushed for reasons.
Hm... Ok. I thought he did.
Guess who told him to read the bolded.
Way to not read my post, though, Iso.
(If I'm ever in a game where I think you're scum, you will be IsoScummy!)
IsoFunny!
and, yes, I'm actually cracking up at myself here, haha.[/quote]
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
And why would someone be paranoid in the game of mafia....
No, I'm asking you two things:
Why are Iso's actions fishing?
Why are Iso's actions scummy?
He was asking everyone what they thought about losing their roles. (By activating their monkiers.) The responces are fishing for those who have roles that could be lost.
His actions are scummy because they are comming across (to me that is) as someone who is both trying to get info from the rest of us, while at the same time SEEM like he is doing us favors and earning "townie points." His reasonings for posting seem like he is scum, needing to set arguements ahead of time because he should be expecting people to be comming after him.. Because well he is scum.
Well I'M TOWN and if you look at my play in Star Trek EU you will see so many similarities between my play there and Iso's play there.
I'll check it out when I get time. Was that Isos only completed game?
I'm basing that on Seppel's meta, not just IRL interactions.
I don't know that.. How can I?
I'm just sayin', good luck finding the input you're looking for.
The opinion of you from other people in this game? I don't see why it would be that hard.
I claim to be neither. I'm already learning a lot from my first game on the forums. So I'm seeing a lot of stuff I did early on in that game in some of what's being done here, mistakes I made, poor logic and playing presumptions. What's wrong with wanting to help out other new townies?
There is nothing wrong with wanting to help out new townies. Everyone has to learn somehow. Trial and error. However you cant use the defense of being new if it is false.
Point of this statement?
You assume that Reya had an ability to lose.
Not intentionally. It was intended to be viewed as just speculation, as I stated.
ok.
Not directly, but more subtly through your fishing. I wouldn't expect you to demand a claim until a more opportune time (such as L-2) so as to avoid suspicion. Why? Because, as I said, you're behaving scummily.
Explain my fishing, I don't see where I am fishing. I see that I saw something you said and pointed it out. I think of you as scum. Which is why I said something. How is this behaving scummily?
Uhh...no? Where did I indicate any sort of agreement with that statement at all?
You didn't. I ment to have an agree to disagree statment.
Why would I do that if I feel you're scummy? I was giving my genuine reads on the players and the reasoning you put behind listing them as scum candidates.
Ah I just wanted to use the line from your brother.
To get others to read more into what you're saying. If I think you're scummy, why wouldn't I want to cast suspicion on you, call attention to what you're saying, and see what the other townies gather from it?
See you did a better job of bolding your text below. That way it's more eye catch.
Why are you so confident I'm going to die?
First off I still think of you as scum, thus I dont want you to stay alive.
Second unless someone or something clears you as a townie in this game (And by that I mean a role used not some love from family), the only way we are going to be sure is your death. It might not be today, but when you die we'll learn your allignment.
So why would you point out that a townie has an ability (if you say "I didn't" or something to that effect in an attempt to be clever, I'm going to smack you through the internet.)? That's just detrimental to town. Pah, am I the only one seeing this?
Because you arn't a townie. You are a scum.
So you are saying that if someone you saw as scummy posted something about them you arn't going to call them out on it?? Why wouldn't you? I mean if you THINK that they are scum you keeping this to yourself does what?
Thank you for thinking I could be capable of thinking of that caliber. You give me way too much credit, though.
Flattery aside, you do see why I said soemthing then?
Pfft, even if there is, it probably has to do with people activating their triggers. No one can do anything to make my trigger activate but me. So, if you have nothing else, we'll drop that.
Dropped.
Which is precisely why I said I would expect pressure (if not to be outright lynched). There would be a case and a fight before I got lynched. I obviously don't have that mindset, so why did you bring it up?
Wait what? don't have the mindset of what because I dont have it either then... If Iso is scum. You would have to explain yourself. But as of now your explination is all based off of Seppel and his views of his brother. So yes there would be a case against you...
And, I have provided some opinions on Iso. Yes, I'm barning Seppel, too, but I've shown some of my own reasons. Plus, his 303, the idea he had on my trigger? That does, absolutely, come from a town mindset. So just drop it.
I dont understand how that is a townie mindset but it's dropped.
And what, pray tell, has satisfied you about my reactions?
I wanted to know if you were buddying up to me or not. You arn't, thats good.
But, see, here's my problem with this. I didn't notice or care that he was hinting at his own role with that. YOU have made that quite obvious, not him. And I don't like that one bit.
Because I see him as scum... Thats what the town does.. Take down the scum. I'm sorry for playing mafia here...
Someone already has.
I have to be blind. It could be me rushing here but i'll go and take time to read when I have time..
Aside from the fact, yes, Iso, Seppel and I are quite connected outside of the game. We all love each other very much as friends. That has no bearing on our alignments here or how we'll play the game towards each other. If any of us think one of the others is scum (and we are town), then we will not hesitate to pressure and, eventually, lynch them. After all, this is just a game, and we know not to take anything personal.
But you see here is where I have a problem with that.. Running mafia games here in real life I have learned that friends that tend to hang out with their clique tend to just work together (as a clique) becuase they are used to each other. And im sure it's all WIFOM I really feel that is what is going on here. And im tired of it. You three have a connection that the rest of us don't have and that I think clouds each of your judgement of one another.. Forget prior games, forget history. Currently you are three people who enjoy each others company outside of the game.. that is something the rest of us cannot do.
YOU are the only one putting so much emphasis on them being brothers. Are you trying to discredit their in-game feelings on one another just because they're related?
Yes, very much so. I don't think they do it on purpose but how would I know that..
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks goes out to DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja
People seem to have a habit of not reading this forum, as the Doc, Loran, and you have pointed out. If people take what I say out of context, how can I be sure that the person who responds to it actually read the original posts.
Excuse me? Oh, please back that up with evidence.
Like I said, I didn't think of unvoting at the time. Look how many total times I've voted before this. Like in my mafia career. I don't do it that much. I'm likely to, and in this case did, forget.
That being said, had I remembered I wouldn't be "getting off the Doc wagon" because I wouldn't have been on a wagon when I voted PF.
Yes. You started the wagon when you voted for him. It just never took off.
And the reasons I voted PF are in those posts.
Ok, I looked at them. So, the crux of your whole case on him is the alleged taking stuff out of context?
You do realize that could easily be a misinterpretation, right?
Ok, I will rephrase again.
I pointed it out because I saw it as odd.
Again. You didn't REALLY point it out. You made snide comments and bolded or used really big font. But you didn't say anything about it. Just did what he told you to do.
In other words, you were trying to bring it to people's attention without actually doing it. Meaning, you were probably trying to point it out to your buddies without saying "Hey, guys, don't miss this!"
I'm sorry... What?
He didn't use that as a point against you.
Because due to that post, which I felt was completely valid when I wrote it, were reasons I thought he was scum. Hence the vote.
Flattery aside, you do see why I said soemthing then?
I guess.
Wait what? don't have the mindset of what because I dont have it either then... If Iso is scum. You would have to explain yourself. But as of now your explination is all based off of Seppel and his views of his brother. So yes there would be a case against you...
You said I have the mindset of "If Iso comes up scum, I'll be insta-lynched as his scum buddy". I'm saying that is not the case, nor did I ever imply I did have that mindset.
I dont understand how that is a townie mindset but it's dropped.
No, because you need to understand.
He said that he thought I have an ability that allows me to know the alignment of anyone who quotes me. He has quoted me several times. If he thought I had that ability and was scum, he would not think that as a reason to explain why I thought he was town so quickly. So, for him to think that was my ability and to think that's what told me he is town, he has to be town.
Do you get it now?
I wanted to know if you were buddying up to me or not. You arn't, thats good.
O. K.
Because I see him as scum... Thats what the town does.. Take down the scum. I'm sorry for playing mafia here...
Scum don't go out of their way to reveal their roles anymore than town do, you know. (Aside from the fact that, y'know, HE'S NOT SCUM)
I have to be blind. It could be me rushing here but i'll go and take time to read when I have time..
I don't think you're blind. I think you're tunnelvisioned. You need to stop that.
But you see here is where I have a problem with that.. Running mafia games here in real life I have learned that friends that tend to hang out with their clique tend to just work together (as a clique) becuase they are used to each other. And im sure it's all WIFOM I really feel that is what is going on here. And im tired of it. You three have a connection that the rest of us don't have and that I think clouds each of your judgement of one another.. Forget prior games, forget history. Currently you are three people who enjoy each others company outside of the game.. that is something the rest of us cannot do.
Not true. They can see each other IRL, but I cannot. I am available to everyone in this game just as much as I am to them. And I have conversed with Dagger, loran, and The Player AKA The_Doctor (the one behind the veil) outside of games.
Seppel and Iso just happen to be 2 of my best friends.
Now, another thing I want you to realize because I've been accused of this way too much. I put my personal feelings aside when I enter a game with someone I consider a friend. If Seppel did something right now to convince me he was scum, I would vote him until he was dead and never think twice about it. Because it's a game, and I have a goal, and if he's not on my team, he's in my way. But, I know, when I contact him on AIM, he'll be just as friendly as he always is. Because it's a game.
And, to further prove this, just read any game with me and Cyan in it. (Hint: he's been in most of my games.) Cyan's a friend, too, but we ALWAYS end up at each other's throats because we cannot read each other. So there's an instance when knowing them outside of the game doesn't help. Literally, every game. (Well, maybe not Joss Whedon because Seppel was in it and frustrated the HELL out of Cyan, but you get my point.)
In fact, an anecdote: I have played 3 games on this site with my husband (red_0mega). 2 of the 3 we were both town (the other was Joss Whedon where I was scum). Now, with me and him it's not really fair because I can read him like a book and after a few posts, I'll know his alignment (as Seppel can vouch for from Ogre). But, if he had been scum in either of those games, I would have gotten him lynched no problem. Outside relationships have very little relevance on in-game actions. They only help one to read another better.
That being said, I've never been in a game when Seppel was scum, but I have read along to some. This is not his scum meta.
Yes, very much so. I don't think they do it on purpose but how would I know that..
That's a cheap shot and I don't like that you're going there. That whole speech I said up above? That goes for them, too. This is a game. All 3 of us are in here to win. If we are all on the same team and figure that out (as we have here) then, yeah, we're going to have some fun while we finish playing the game.
I believe I made some good points there. You seem to be missing most of them.
Well then let me summarize.
Loran and Iso can't BOTH be scum.
But then he proceeds to tell us how scummy Iso is.
Manders and Loran can't BOTH be scum.
And when asked if he thought Manders was scum, he said yes.
Do you really not at least think it odd that this whole "Loran and X cant both be scum" followed shortly after by "X is scum!" has happened twice?
You know what this is Seppel. He's repeatedly asked me about my question to Loran, which as you know included these phrases.
And yes, I pointed out how he posts some things without compelling evidence.
But he posts once a day, and has stated that he spends 3-4 hours on some of these posts.
The Doc seems intellegent. One would assume these posts would therefore be well thought out, and planned to at least a moderate degree.
Have you seen a whole lot of reactionary spur-of-the moment-posts from him this game? Because I haven't.
No, it's not natural because the sentence without the qualifier of it being a 'town' wagon was still a valid sentence. As such, I was trying to determine the thinking behind it.
"So then why are you so convinced right now that he's town as opposed to a neutral? The only players that would have any clue right now as to whether there's any neutrals in the game would be scum."
"I'm willing to call you on this obvious bluff."
"You were bemoaning the thought that if you were lynched and turned up town, nobody would pay attention to your analysis that Seppel was town. I was stating that for me that it would be quite the opposite."
"On Day 1, only scum and mason variants have the ability to deal in absolutes."
"I told you it's not important right now as it's just conjecture without much supporting evidence. (Hence, why I made a note for myself to go back and look at once some more alignments are known.) I'm not actively pursuing the matter, so I don't see why you feel the need to get so defensive about it."
"So you didn't. I misread the statement - missed the negative of the first bit."
"Alright, there's something to which I'm dying to know the answer. Why is it that each time I tried a clever strategy to determine if people are actually reading the thread, you decide to quote it and call attention to it with either a smiley or large bold text - thus rendering the strategy completely moot?"
"How about both of loran and me? You can't call for people wrong that have come to the analysis that Iso is town and then call out for people to come out with analysis that Iso is town (except for those other people that were wrong, of course)."
"Could you give me a quick summary of your thoughts on Silent Prophet?"
"How so?"
"How does quoting the same sample of post repeatedly prove that he's not paying attention to the thread or that his story is going criss-cross?"
"Yes, and?"
"Quite the opposite, actually. A more accurate description would be that I repel them."
"You obviously don't have enough game play experience to realize why the point is still valid. Catching one scum and forming a wagon on them = easily within the realm of possibility. Can two be wagoned early day 1, yes? Could it theoretically happen? Yes. Would there be enough support to get one of them to L-2 then the other to 3? Almost certainly not."
"Actually, that's exactly what Manders said and meant. Not to mention she's verified that a couple times already since then."
"Another victim of the 'interesting' tell, mayhap?
You are obviously not familiar with train of thought posting. I pose the questions as I hit the corresponding text. If they happen to answer the question later in the thread, I merely cross it out as it does not need to be answered again and I'll post an analysis of their answer or ask for more clarification.
Finally, is bread-crumbing a good or bad thing? Why would you feel the need to keep trying to find/call attention to it? It's not bread-crumbing, but you seem obsessed with finding breadcrumbs."
"You do realize there's such a thing as typos, right? Oh, add to the fact that you knew what I meant. Proof (your original response to the question) is below."
"You started off with the same typo, but by the third sentence, it's clear you knew what I was trying to ask."
"You just need more experience; don't worry, it will come in time. I won't hold it against you."
"Context is key. MandersHex asked me what I hadn't liked about Iso's list. So, I was giving her my reasoning for saying that. You know, the time before Iso made his 'proof I'm likely town' post."
"Trying to figure out what plays scum make is a good idea. However, that isn't what this quote is about. Here's the full context:"
"You were defending against why you shouldn't be considered scum."
"Why yes, yes I do."
"Actually, here instead of believing one or two extremely contrived possibilities, he leans toward believing any of more numerous scenarios. Occam's Razor is a helpful tool, use it."
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I understand what you're trying to say correctly: it's more likely that the town caught two scum and has enough support to form wagons on both of them over at least one of them being a false wagon?"
"Guess what? Some people work. Those same people may be working off multiple computers at work and at home. You know what else? Maybe they work in a company that bans access to all sites like google docs. So what's the easiest way to keep notes? Oh yeah, put them in the thread.
Do you have a problem with me putting all of my notes in the thread as I'm playing?
Again, obsessed with finding breadcrumbs everywhere you look."
"Huh? MandersHex moved her vote from Tanarin to pinkfloyd after she had said that she will only vote someone that she is sure is scum. I was asking why she moved it if she was already sure Tanarin was scum."
No idea. The case against him has been uninspired.
"What Seppel said was easy to discern. You were the one that chose to misinterpret it."
"Waiting to see if anyone else can see it. Can you?"
"I gave no evidence because I wasn't arguing the point. And yes, yes you did."
"Suspicious or scummy?
You seem insistent on distracting me from MandersHex. Very well, you have my attention. Unvote, Vote: kill-joy"
"Don't forget to add that he later tells you how town Iso is."
"So I take it that you think it's possible for at least one of loran and Iso or loran and Manders to be scumbuddies?"
"Have I pushed anything without compelling evidence?"
"Yes, so?"
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
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It just felt odd to me. I thought you were putting it there for a different reason.
Even with that I'm one of the few who follow it.
I won't anymore, now that I know why you're doing it.
You reamed me later on for making that assumption. Yet you do it yourself.
Yea, sorry. I was thinking "distance them". IDK why I wrote connects.
Ok, my bad.
From what people have told me it's something scum do.
Technically mine wasn't a typo, but semantics.
Hopefully soon. I'm tired of being a newb.
I'll have to do a reread to see if I can see what you mean.
My intent was to present an argument as to what scum would do in my situation. Came out wrong, I guess.
No, what I was saying was that you yourself made the assumption that there were only 3 scum.
My point was theres many ways to take notes without putting it on the thread. Notebook and pencil is one.
If the reason your doing it is as you said above, no.
I was seeing a more sinister reason behind it is all.
Nothing jumped out at me on the reread.
What did I do that makes me scummy?
Not my intention actually. My intention was to get my opinion out there, but I'm afraid my noobieness lead me to some bad conclusions.
Entirely possible, yes. I'm not quite as sure as you are that Loran is town quite yet. Manders and Iso I'm not 100% on either, as a matter of fact. Closer than Loran though.
I suppose not.
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So he thinks both Manders and Iso are scum. It's a little convoluted, yes, but he hasn't said anything contradictory.
And you answered, right? Then what's the point?
Me neither. What's your point?
Roja is using outdated points to stubbornly believe that Iso is scum. It makes no damn sense.
I was defending Iso. He said I could be town attacking Iso or scum bussing him. Bussing/attacking is not defending. Nothing he said makes sense in the context of his argument. HE IS MAKING **** UP.
DON'T DO THIS TO ME MANDERS
Ugh, FINE. I'll brb.
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LOL
Says you.
I was making the same assumption.
What do you mean by that?
LOL
You are funny.
Legit in his randomness of nothing to do with the game?
I did twice however I was summing up what Iso thinks of me in his eyes. :
I totally agree. And now let me ask you this, what do you think of Iso's setting arguments up ahead of time method?
:toot::toot:
I couldn't find bells, so I just got party hats instead.
You, Manders and Iso seem deeply connected with each other. I would like someone who isn't you three to view the situation. Quit trying to twist my words around.
No, not the point. You are putting words in my mouth. Clearly I don't understand why you think PF is a townie. I see mostly nonsence from him.
I dont understand the question. Why is Iso's fishing a scummy behavior?
Good to know, however until you are dead I remain the right to then keep my vote on you.. (you know if I had one...)
There is too much talk of you two being brothers it is really really starting to bother me. Wonderful that he will lynch you if you are scum. What if you both are scum then? Would he bus you? See it doesn't matter.. It is all WIFOM.
That isn't what I was asking.. Geeze. See above to my reply to your BROTHER. You, manders and BROTHER are too entwined. I cant trust any of you. I need the opinion of someone that isn't you three. Why am I wrong for asking?
I didn't go deep sea fishing. I went to the shore lines and picked up a pearl on the side of the banks. YOU are the one to blame for having it be known you have an ability, I am calling you out on it. It is not my fault you posted what you did.
This is your second fourm mafia game. Either you are a noob playing mafia or you are a master teaching everyone else. You cannot be both. Choose one.
Your assumtions here are flawed. (Reguarding Reya) And whoopie for your ability.
But you WERE giving out information of your role.
I called you out on it because I think you are scum... Sorry for being all townie on you.
Well duh, you would have only looked more scummier if you tried to deny it.
And no one is demanding that you reveal your ability. Clearly if you ever get to L-2 that would be a good time to say something... Do you really think I set out for you to reveal your ability? Why would you think that?
Ok so we both agree, someone who has something to hide would generally create arguments ahead of time to combat them.
We all have busy lives what makes you think im here all day posting nonsence every other post?
Like I said earlier you and manders are entwined. I expect you both to be unaware of each other.
I'll take a line from your brother above.. [sarcasm]You see like you are trying to please me here... [/sarcasm]
Anyways, yes whenver I have time I think Reya and PF are really good options to persue. Like yourself, I just don't have the time to answer the walls of text from you and ur bro and then have a life. However Reya's comments of "im activating my monkier now" just seems really shady. He could have asked what we would think would happen. He could have tried to do it behind our backs.. but he didn't so that means he gets ++ points?? I dono I just dont like how that went down. And like you said, there was nothing anyone could do to prevent it from happening.. (Which makes me think it would be in a townies role but that is gaming the mod..)
Ok.. but why the dramatic NOTED!! DOUBLE SUPER NOTED!!?? Like why post that?
Well I guess we'll see when you end up dead.
Pointing out that a scum has an ability is very helpful to the town.
OMG!!
VOTE PINKFLOYD
Thats bolded if you can't tell!
UNVOTE
VOTE PINKFLOYD
How did you manage to miss everything I said?
Those quotes had a context to them.
Why are you taking them out of context?
I just don't see the doc as very scummy, he is posting good stuff and at least he is pointing the finger at people.
LOL
So you enforce that theory by taking what I said out of context? That's scummy.
How was it out of context?
Also, I feel the Doc vs. Kill thing is town vs. town, I'm not trying to imply you are scum.
LOL
As far as taking a post out of context, you did take it out of context. All kill was doing was explaining to seppel what Doc said, and then you go and turn it into a mudsling post on Kill-joy.
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Read post #654
LOL
Sorry
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Its cool manders, I don't think we have a deadline...
Do we mod?
LOL
@Anyone: I dare you to find pinkfloyd as scum here.
STOP BECOMING RETURN-TO-AMISTARIA-MANDERS
He's paranoid.
No, I'm asking you two things:
Why are Iso's actions fishing?
Why are Iso's actions scummy?
Well I'M TOWN and if you look at my play in Star Trek EU you will see so many similarities between my play there and Iso's play there.
Well, has anyone answered you?
You'll find that Iso knows everything.
Can we get a prod mod?
LOL
So are you indicating that you feel loran is scum? Because your vote is on Tanarin, IIRC. So do you feel that Manders and I are scum, too? Which of us is more likely to be scum, and why? Because these are your implications.
Your interpretation of it, you mean.
I'm basing that on Seppel's meta, not just IRL interactions.
I'm just sayin', good luck finding the input you're looking for.
I claim to be neither. I'm already learning a lot from my first game on the forums. So I'm seeing a lot of stuff I did early on in that game in some of what's being done here, mistakes I made, poor logic and playing presumptions. What's wrong with wanting to help out other new townies?
Point of this statement?
Not intentionally. It was intended to be viewed as just speculation, as I stated.
Uhh...no? Where did I indicate any sort of agreement with that statement at all?
Why would I do that if I feel you're scummy? I was giving my genuine reads on the players and the reasoning you put behind listing them as scum candidates.
To get others to read more into what you're saying. If I think you're scummy, why wouldn't I want to cast suspicion on you, call attention to what you're saying, and see what the other townies gather from it?
Why are you so confident I'm going to die?
So why would you point out that a townie has an ability (if you say "I didn't" or something to that effect in an attempt to be clever, I'm going to smack you through the internet.)? That's just detrimental to town. Pah, am I the only one seeing this?
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Here, let me show you.
Here's what I said:
This was analyzing what the doc said. So no, not says me. Says him.
Why are you trying to attribute this to me?
The point I was making here was that later in the post I showed how he reamed me for assuming there was only 3 scum in the game.
And yet you misrep me by taking a lot of what I just said out of context.
Due to the fact that you quoted me, it's not a far jump to assume that you read it. I believe you're taking these things out of context on purpose.
[QUOTE=Seppel;/comments/10778465]@Anyone: I dare you to find pinkfloyd as scum here.
[quote]
Challenge Accepted.
Unvote. Vote Pinkfloyd.
Wasn't it your words claiming "Manders and Loran can't BOTH be scum, Loran and Iso can't BOTH be scum" ? I'm pretty sure it wasn't a quote...
My comment was just a statement that I believe there are only 3 scum players in the game.
Trust me, I am not making a case against you or doc.
Any real reason or??
No, I'm just saying that nothing has been proved yet. I do not think that you and manders are scum.
LOL
No, it wasn't a quote. I was reinstating what the Doc said.
Oh, ok. It sounded like you were saying "I came to this conclusion too, so you're wrong."
See, thats the thing. I don't trust you. You're kinda lurky and the post I responded to by you didn't help.
As of this moment, I think you're scum. You took what I said completely out of context, and it seems like you are attempting to misconstrue what I really did say.
That, and the general lurkyness.
Okay, well, I apologize. I looked at what was written and didn't see it in a quote so assumed you stated that.
By "lurk" do you mean the ammount of posts I make or something else?
But do you really think I am the scummiest and deserve to be lynched day 1?
LOL
What games of mine have you read.
This vote is absolute garbage.
I am now The Police because I'm sendin' out an FoS.
Sure.
Not just the amount, but content as well.
You seem to be waiting for someone to be really scummy. Why are you sitting back and waiting? What good does that do town?
Scum needs to be lynched. Who else would you lynch today?
Would you like to elaborate on this? WHY do you say its garbage?
I've claimed both Loran and Tanarin are scum, that's 2/3.... And quite frankly I just want to lynch one so the game keeps going and gives more to post about.
I'm voting tanarin, but loran is also a great option
LOL
Why do you say it's not?
"That doesn't quite help now, does it? The damage has already been done twice. You also didn't actually answer the question. Why in the world did you call those bits out in the first place?"
"No, I most certainly did not. This is a blatant misrepresentation of what happened. Below is the full exchange:"
"What do you consider to be bread-crumbing?"
"And what reason is that, pray tell?"
"Well, your extremely horrible case against me is a huge point, but the original point I was mentioning was in the post I quoted when you started this whole fracas."
"So at this point are you backing off from thinking I'm scum or not?"
"As for loran and Iso, you will have to be able to justify loran's continued attacks on Iso until the fated Iso post. Whereas for Manders and loran, you will have to justify Manders not understanding loran's it was either trigger or ability. Can't remember which."
"Actually, I don't think Iso is scum. People seem to be confusing the statement that the players can't be scum together with the statement that one of them is scum. The two are not identical by a long shot."
"Reading the thread would remedy this situation."
"*cough* Pot, kettle *cough*"
"Glad you agree."
"Then you need to get your eyeglasses prescription redone."
"Ha, worse vote than Tanarin's on the Iso wagon. Please people, kill-joy needs more votes."
"A vote would be more effective at this junction."
"Now, for the questions of mine that kill-joy did not answer:
1) Why do you feel the need to get defensive about me insinuating that you are scum with Manders?
2) What's the reason/logic behind posting this:"
I'm not ready to make that choice just yet.
We will see how things go though.
1) I only recall doing it once.
2) Because I thought the strategy suspicious.
That wasn't even the exchange at all.
It was refering to me making the assumption that there aren't more than three scum in this game.
Here you say 2 of the 3 scum. This means you're making the assumption that there are only 3 scum.
Bolded for emphasis.
Like I said, you reamed me for making that assumption.
Doing things with no apperent reason that seem to be implying that something else along those lines are coming in the future.
I didn't know yet. Like I said, I thought you were breadcrumbing it. (See above for description on that)
The extremely horrible case is just that. A badly thought out case.
Like you said, I'm inexperienced. I don't know the kinds of choices scum make in this game.
Can you requote it? I don't remember which post that was.
At this point I've decided to wait until I get more of a case as to whether you're scum or not.
Noted.
And I don't remember Manders not understanding that.
I recall Reya not understanding when we were still in RVS, but I think that's not what you're talking about.
Pretty sure I never took them out of context. Just made a bad case, is all.
I never said that. That was Tanarin.
Why are you attributing that to me?
Since you quoted my responses to him, I think you know why I voted him.
So then, why is the vote bad?
This was Seppel.
The way you did it rubbed me the wrong way.
I'm was trying to figure out you're whole "sitting in a tree" thing, plus at that point you hadn't given me any reason to think you actually thought I was scum.
2) What's the reason/logic behind posting this:"[/QUOTE]
Because you only post once a day, and said once that you sometimes take 3-4 hours to write your posts.
And yet you posted a few things with no supporting evidence.
Deflection noted.
Answer the question please.
So, my husband is downloading a new anti-virus, and it is taking FOREVER, so the computer is off limits until that's done. I'll try to keep up, but that big post will have to wait, and the game with the deadline in 4 days gets priority. Apologies.
And, no, Seppel, I am not becoming RtA Manders. I promise.
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You don't have to seem so surprised
Ok, I did this to try to see what the hell is going on with this.
Seppel put some pressure on pf awhile ago.
Seppel now says pf is town because he was scared.
loran says pf isn't scared town but scared scum, and that Seppel is scum.
Seppel asks loran why Seppel is defending pf.
loran says that's WIFOM he's not getting into.
Seppel says if the crux of the argument is WIFOM, what does that say for the argument?
loran says Seppel's alignment has nothing to do with his thoughts on pf, and that pf is still scummy regardless of whether Seppel's town or scum.
What I feel is going on is Seppel is town, pressured pf for a reaction, and is satisfied because Seppel doesn't knowingly put pressure on one of his buddies first. (I say knowingly because he has forgotten who is on his scum team before) This is a very town action for Seppel. So, for loran to ignore the defending Seppel is doing now (which, again, is not something he does as scum to a scumbuddy) has convinced him loran is scum.
I do need to know one thing, Seppel. Do you recognize that scum wanting to hide from pressure is a common practice? (I'm pretty sure I know why pf's response made you think he's town, btw, and I say eh, could be.)
Also, why do you have to be so damn complex?
Now, loran, since you proclaim to have so much experience with Seppel, I would like for you to answer the question that you said was WIFOM. Why is Seppel defending pf if they are both scum?
Thank you for thinking I could be capable of thinking of that caliber. You give me way too much credit, though.
Pfft, even if there is, it probably has to do with people activating their triggers. No one can do anything to make my trigger activate but me. So, if you have nothing else, we'll drop that.
Which is precisely why I said I would expect pressure (if not to be outright lynched). There would be a case and a fight before I got lynched. I obviously don't have that mindset, so why did you bring it up?
And, I have provided some opinions on Iso. Yes, I'm barning Seppel, too, but I've shown some of my own reasons. Plus, his 303, the idea he had on my trigger? That does, absolutely, come from a town mindset. So just drop it.
Ok.
And what, pray tell, has satisfied you about my reactions?
But, see, here's my problem with this. I didn't notice or care that he was hinting at his own role with that. YOU have made that quite obvious, not him. And I don't like that one bit.
Have you? Quotes or it didn't happen.
Yup.
Just because it was still a valid sentence without that qualifier does not mean that it was not natural for me to be thinking town.
How would scum (Mafia) have any idea there is a neutral in the game?
Not a bluff, but go for it. Just don't expect me to roll over and die.
Did I? I don't recall that. But, no, if I die, when I flip town, I'm sure some people will put merit behind my thoughts.
Right, but I'm not talking about a game-wise absolute. I'm talking about guaranteeing if you think someone is scum or not. And, I'm saying that, by our conversation earlier, just because you vote someone does not necessarily mean you are convinced they are scum.
What response were you expecting from him on this?
Yup.
I'm not sure what you're going for with this, either, tbh.
If everyone could title their next post the name of their favorite Magic card, I would appreciate it very much.
This entire post reads as if you've realized that you were probably wrong about The_Doctor. It has an entire air of defeat. So, why didn't you unvote?
I'm not, sweetie.
Someone already has.
Aside from the fact, yes, Iso, Seppel and I are quite connected outside of the game. We all love each other very much as friends. That has no bearing on our alignments here or how we'll play the game towards each other. If any of us think one of the others is scum (and we are town), then we will not hesitate to pressure and, eventually, lynch them. After all, this is just a game, and we know not to take anything personal.
YOU are the only one putting so much emphasis on them being brothers. Are you trying to discredit their in-game feelings on one another just because they're related?
Why do you care so much?
If we did, he'd have announced it.
It's possible, but unlikely, I will admit.
Yup.
And, just so you know Roja, I've done the same thing before. As town. That's not a scumtell.
Inside joke? I want in!
This is not just garbage, Seps. This is scummy.
Unvote, Vote: kill-joy
I know of at least one, but I'll let him answer.
LOL
How so? He said, right when he said what to do, what he was doing. How is it suspicious to put in a post a way to verify if people are reading or skimming?
You call that being reamed?
Then why did you vote for him?
He's talking about when Alpha posted the vote count showing Loran only had one vote, and I asked if that was right, then Loran responded that yes, it is, yes, he knows why, and no, he's not sharing. Loran responding as such absolutely points to us not having communication outside of the game. (Because, if I were scum, I would have access to Loran's role PM, I'm sure.)
Please quote what things he's posted with NO supporting evidence.
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Ok.
Posts 661, 666,667,668, 676,677,678,679,681,682, and the final part at 685.
Your turn.
This is part of what I'm saying. I don't really recall him doing a whole lot of this, if really at all.
Indeed I am probably wrong about him.
Why didn't I unvote? Simple. I forgot.
I haven't voted all that much this game, and therefore forgot the need to unvote.
I was making a point when I posted those things.
If you take them out of context, as PF did, they can easily be misconstrued.
I would like you to look at the posts I refered Seppel to, and answer the same question. Why is it garbage, exactly?
Even if he said why he was doing it, he could have been lying about the reason. I called it out and he responded in a way that caused me to drop suspicion.
Let me rephrase then.
"One of his points to me was contridicted by something he said earlier"
I believe I voted during my initial post, and the quote is part of my response to his response.
Right! I forgot about that.
This one is the first that came to mind.
He didn't provide evidence as to why Roja is town when he wrote it.
Which, along with what you quoted, you will see that due to the fact that he only posts once a day and takes so long on his posts, I found it odd that he didn't provide evidence to this point.
He usually does.
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Mhm
So?
Oh, I don't need to look at the posts to answer that.
It's garbage because you used that as an excuse to get off the horribly bad The_Doctor wagon you tried to start.
Bolded for emphasis.
Bull****. You didn't call anything out. You made a spectacle of what he did, but you never said anything about it until he asked you why you made a spectacle of it.
That's not a very good rephrase either. That wasn't one of his points.
That doesn't answer my question.
WHY DID YOU VOTE FOR HIM?
Not really. Look at his posts again. When he's deciding someone's town, he's pretty tight-lipped on why unless he's pushed for reasons.
Guess who told him to read the bolded.
Way to not read my post, though, Iso.
(If I'm ever in a game where I think you're scum, you will be IsoScummy!)
IsoFunny!
and, yes, I'm actually cracking up at myself here, haha.
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Would their win condition say something about it, possibly?
I did read it. I just responded before I read it. I didn't realize there were more posts after Seppel's that I responded to for some reason. Dx
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Every time I've been scum, I had no indication of if there were neutrals or not. And I was scum in Alpha's last game. So I'd be really surprised if it did.
Fair enough, you've proven that you did.
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Yup.
I'm not a fan of when people take what I say out of context.
People seem to have a habit of not reading this forum, as the Doc, Loran, and you have pointed out. If people take what I say out of context, how can I be sure that the person who responds to it actually read the original posts.
Like I said, I didn't think of unvoting at the time. Look how many total times I've voted before this. Like in my mafia career. I don't do it that much. I'm likely to, and in this case did, forget.
That being said, had I remembered I wouldn't be "getting off the Doc wagon" because I wouldn't have been on a wagon when I voted PF.
And the reasons I voted PF are in those posts.
Ok, I will rephrase again.
I pointed it out because I saw it as odd.
I'm sorry... What?
Because due to that post, which I felt was completely valid when I wrote it, were reasons I thought he was scum. Hence the vote.
Hm... Ok. I thought he did.
Guess who told him to read the bolded.
Way to not read my post, though, Iso.
(If I'm ever in a game where I think you're scum, you will be IsoScummy!)
IsoFunny!
and, yes, I'm actually cracking up at myself here, haha.[/quote]
Gotcha. I wouldn't really know, so just speculating.
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BAH
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And why would someone be paranoid in the game of mafia....
He was asking everyone what they thought about losing their roles. (By activating their monkiers.) The responces are fishing for those who have roles that could be lost.
His actions are scummy because they are comming across (to me that is) as someone who is both trying to get info from the rest of us, while at the same time SEEM like he is doing us favors and earning "townie points." His reasonings for posting seem like he is scum, needing to set arguements ahead of time because he should be expecting people to be comming after him.. Because well he is scum.
I'll check it out when I get time. Was that Isos only completed game?
If they have I haven't sceen it.
I want to know tonights Powerball numbers..
Yes.
I don't know that.. How can I?
The opinion of you from other people in this game? I don't see why it would be that hard.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to help out new townies. Everyone has to learn somehow. Trial and error. However you cant use the defense of being new if it is false.
You assume that Reya had an ability to lose.
ok.
Explain my fishing, I don't see where I am fishing. I see that I saw something you said and pointed it out. I think of you as scum. Which is why I said something. How is this behaving scummily?
You didn't. I ment to have an agree to disagree statment.
Ah I just wanted to use the line from your brother.
See you did a better job of bolding your text below. That way it's more eye catch.
First off I still think of you as scum, thus I dont want you to stay alive.
Second unless someone or something clears you as a townie in this game (And by that I mean a role used not some love from family), the only way we are going to be sure is your death. It might not be today, but when you die we'll learn your allignment.
Because you arn't a townie. You are a scum.
So you are saying that if someone you saw as scummy posted something about them you arn't going to call them out on it?? Why wouldn't you? I mean if you THINK that they are scum you keeping this to yourself does what?
Why does this matter? Do you think it will change his opinion of you?
When I get time I plan on doing so.
Flattery aside, you do see why I said soemthing then?
Dropped.
Wait what? don't have the mindset of what because I dont have it either then... If Iso is scum. You would have to explain yourself. But as of now your explination is all based off of Seppel and his views of his brother. So yes there would be a case against you...
I dont understand how that is a townie mindset but it's dropped.
I wanted to know if you were buddying up to me or not. You arn't, thats good.
Because I see him as scum... Thats what the town does.. Take down the scum. I'm sorry for playing mafia here...
I have to be blind. It could be me rushing here but i'll go and take time to read when I have time..
But you see here is where I have a problem with that.. Running mafia games here in real life I have learned that friends that tend to hang out with their clique tend to just work together (as a clique) becuase they are used to each other. And im sure it's all WIFOM I really feel that is what is going on here. And im tired of it. You three have a connection that the rest of us don't have and that I think clouds each of your judgement of one another.. Forget prior games, forget history. Currently you are three people who enjoy each others company outside of the game.. that is something the rest of us cannot do.
Yes, very much so. I don't think they do it on purpose but how would I know that..
Excuse me? Oh, please back that up with evidence.
Yes. You started the wagon when you voted for him. It just never took off.
Ok, I looked at them. So, the crux of your whole case on him is the alleged taking stuff out of context?
You do realize that could easily be a misinterpretation, right?
Again. You didn't REALLY point it out. You made snide comments and bolded or used really big font. But you didn't say anything about it. Just did what he told you to do.
In other words, you were trying to bring it to people's attention without actually doing it. Meaning, you were probably trying to point it out to your buddies without saying "Hey, guys, don't miss this!"
He didn't use that as a point against you.
Mhm
(I know)
I guess.
You said I have the mindset of "If Iso comes up scum, I'll be insta-lynched as his scum buddy". I'm saying that is not the case, nor did I ever imply I did have that mindset.
No, because you need to understand.
He said that he thought I have an ability that allows me to know the alignment of anyone who quotes me. He has quoted me several times. If he thought I had that ability and was scum, he would not think that as a reason to explain why I thought he was town so quickly. So, for him to think that was my ability and to think that's what told me he is town, he has to be town.
Do you get it now?
O. K.
Scum don't go out of their way to reveal their roles anymore than town do, you know. (Aside from the fact that, y'know, HE'S NOT SCUM)
I don't think you're blind. I think you're tunnelvisioned. You need to stop that.
Not true. They can see each other IRL, but I cannot. I am available to everyone in this game just as much as I am to them. And I have conversed with Dagger, loran, and The Player AKA The_Doctor (the one behind the veil) outside of games.
Seppel and Iso just happen to be 2 of my best friends.
Now, another thing I want you to realize because I've been accused of this way too much. I put my personal feelings aside when I enter a game with someone I consider a friend. If Seppel did something right now to convince me he was scum, I would vote him until he was dead and never think twice about it. Because it's a game, and I have a goal, and if he's not on my team, he's in my way. But, I know, when I contact him on AIM, he'll be just as friendly as he always is. Because it's a game.
And, to further prove this, just read any game with me and Cyan in it. (Hint: he's been in most of my games.) Cyan's a friend, too, but we ALWAYS end up at each other's throats because we cannot read each other. So there's an instance when knowing them outside of the game doesn't help. Literally, every game. (Well, maybe not Joss Whedon because Seppel was in it and frustrated the HELL out of Cyan, but you get my point.)
In fact, an anecdote: I have played 3 games on this site with my husband (red_0mega). 2 of the 3 we were both town (the other was Joss Whedon where I was scum). Now, with me and him it's not really fair because I can read him like a book and after a few posts, I'll know his alignment (as Seppel can vouch for from Ogre). But, if he had been scum in either of those games, I would have gotten him lynched no problem. Outside relationships have very little relevance on in-game actions. They only help one to read another better.
That being said, I've never been in a game when Seppel was scum, but I have read along to some. This is not his scum meta.
That's a cheap shot and I don't like that you're going there. That whole speech I said up above? That goes for them, too. This is a game. All 3 of us are in here to win. If we are all on the same team and figure that out (as we have here) then, yeah, we're going to have some fun while we finish playing the game.
I see nothing wrong with that.
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