I was looking for an excuse to jump off of the Zaj wagon? The one that A)I started and B)I advocated continuing with after he claimed? Yeah okay.
Also, that is not the post by Loran that I was referring to. It should be obvious that I was referring to 865, considering that, you know, I immediately commented on it.
Anyway, that post is super-scummy. Loran talks about wanting to lynch TACKY instead of Zajnet, and then immediately says tries to push forward with lynching Zajnet anyway.
Main indicator of the scumminess of the post, however: Loran himself knows(and says) that it's bad.
Vote Loran
You have now jumped on pretty much every single major wagon. And I say jumped because you did not start the zajnet wagon. You were vote 4. If anything I started that wagon.
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If you had actually started that wagon your defense would be fine. Since you didn't, the posturing looks awfully bad for you. Fourth vote is right when things are picking up steam and a good place to jump on if your going to bus your scum buddy since you don't want it to be one of the last votes. where everyone is watching with such a critical point of view. Then advocating to lynch someone after a bad claim doesn't seem to be a strong point in your favor. Yes, I really do think you were looking for a reason to jump off the Zaj wagon.
If you had actually started that wagon your defense would be fine. Since you didn't, the posturing looks awfully bad for you. Fourth vote is right when things are picking up steam and a good place to jump on if your going to bus your scum buddy since you don't want it to be one of the last votes. where everyone is watching with such a critical point of view. Then advocating to lynch someone after a bad claim doesn't seem to be a strong point in your favor. Yes, I really do think you were looking for a reason to jump off the Zaj wagon.
Errr who are you talking to?
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Actually, if loran is town I think Cyan is scum. However, I am much more confident that loran is scum. He isn't even building a real case (against me, TACKY, or anyone else), he's just quoting mediocre posts and pretending that they're obvious scum tells.
He's talking to me. And I really thought I voted sooner on Zajnet.
Not that it really matters, since he and Loran can't really both be scum IMO, and Loran is the scummier of the two.
"Oh I said an incorrect statement but don't worry it doesn't matter."
Like seriously, I throw my hands in the air and give up with you guys. We went within 2 votes of taking zajnet to the house, and now we are lynching loran. *throws up hands in disgust*
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Actually, if loran is town I think Cyan is scum. However, I am much more confident that loran is scum. He isn't even building a real case (against me, TACKY, or anyone else), he's just quoting mediocre posts and pretending that they're obvious scum tells.
Unvote
Vote loran16
I don't expect I'll change my vote again today.
Yeah, I just re-read you and that's calling the kettle black. You've jumped around and haven't built any concrete cases yourself.
My reasons for voting are more legitimate than "Wow, TACKY, your case against joboman is terrible! VOTE."
Also, if I'm so scummy, where's your vote, Talore?
Nice misrep. I never said you were scummy. Wagon-hopping could be a townie thing, I know that I found it easy to jump on wagons when I just started. On that topic, you certainly aren't looking too good.
That was a little thing I noticed; I have to re-read tomorrow as I've been a little jaded and groggy the last few days.
Stupid computer stalled for about ten minutes after trying to open the 41-posts AI had in the game.
Nice misrep. I never said you were scummy. Wagon-hopping could be a townie thing, I know that I found it easy to jump on wagons when I just started. On that topic, you certainly aren't looking too good.
That was a little thing I noticed; I have to re-read tomorrow as I've been a little jaded and groggy the last few days.
Stupid computer stalled for about ten minutes after trying to open the 41-posts AI had in the game.
What? You either have no idea what you are talking about or you are deliberately misrepresenting the situation.
Yeah, I just re-read you and that's calling the kettle black. You've jumped around and haven't built any concrete cases yourself.
I like how you added that last line.
...which means that you think I'm scummy because I called loran scummy for attacking mediocre posts and strawmanning his opponents to make their positions seem weaker, when you seem to believe that I'm guilty of the same (which would make me scum by my own logic).
Also, I like how you added that last line "I like how you added that last line." Are you seriously trying to pass that off as not calling me scummy?
Convenient that you are now saying, "you certainly aren't looking too good." when you had just said, "I never said you were scummy."
What? You either have no idea what you are talking about or you are deliberately misrepresenting the situation.
You said:
...which means that you think I'm scummy because I called loran scummy for attacking mediocre posts and strawmanning his opponents to make their positions seem weaker, when you seem to believe that I'm guilty of the same (which would make me scum by my own logic).
Also, I like how you added that last line "I like how you added that last line." Are you seriously trying to pass that off as not calling me scummy?
Convenient that you are now saying, "you certainly aren't looking too good." when you had just said, "I never said you were scummy."
Your own logic isn't my logic. I see it as hypocritical because you're attacking someone for being like that, when you are like that. Scumminess has nothing to do with it, you could be scum and just attacking him for weakness in posting.
My last line was in reference to what other people brought up, that you've hopped on pretty much every wagon this game. I don't have the time right now to build a case, tomorrow.
Me saying how I never said scum was in reference to you misreping me, I never said those words. I was pointing out your hypocrisy.
Quoting two things in the same (3 sentence) paragraph is you trying to make me sound inconsistant? lol.
You did notice the line after, which said I have to re-read? Yeah. You trying to attack me right after I pointed you provoked me to look at you in the greater picture and realise you really haven't acted too townie this game. So I'm going to re-read tomorrow and decide if you are scum or not.
Nice misrep. I never said you were scummy. Wagon-hopping could be a townie thing, I know that I found it easy to jump on wagons when I just started. On that topic, you certainly aren't looking too good.
That was a little thing I noticed; I have to re-read tomorrow as I've been a little jaded and groggy the last few days.
Stupid computer stalled for about ten minutes after trying to open the 41-posts AI had in the game.
What? You either have no idea what you are talking about or you are deliberately misrepresenting the situation.
You said:
...which means that you think I'm scummy because I called loran scummy for attacking mediocre posts and strawmanning his opponents to make their positions seem weaker, when you seem to believe that I'm guilty of the same (which would make me scum by my own logic).
Also, I like how you added that last line "I like how you added that last line." Are you seriously trying to pass that off as not calling me scummy?
Convenient that you are now saying, "you certainly aren't looking too good." when you had just said, "I never said you were scummy."
Your own logic isn't my logic. I see it as hypocritical because you're attacking someone for being like that, when you are like that. Scumminess has nothing to do with it, you could be scum and just attacking him for weakness in posting.
My last line was in reference to what other people brought up, that you've hopped on pretty much every wagon this game. I don't have the time right now to build a case, tomorrow.
Me saying how I never said scum was in reference to you misreping me, I never said those words. I was pointing out your hypocrisy.
Quoting two things in the same (3 sentence) paragraph is you trying to make me sound inconsistant? lol.
You did notice the line after, which said I have to re-read? Yeah. You trying to attack me right after I pointed you provoked me to look at you in the greater picture and realise you really haven't acted too townie this game. So I'm going to re-read tomorrow and decide if you are scum or not.
Lol.
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Now that everyone's forgotten I was in this game, I finished rereading/catching up. Some of these quotes are from forever ago. Sorry about that. Also, giant monster post.
Anyway, here are my thoughts. I'll give my reasoning on reads if you ask for it or it becomes relevant.
Mixed/no read:
AI
falkonn
Flew
Zebi
zindabad
Minor scumspects:
Bilbroxain
joboman
Major scumspects:
Cyan
Zaj
[I]On Zajnet:[/I]
Even though I put Zaj in my "major scumspects" category, as it stands I wouldn't really want to lynch him. To use Azrael's terminology in SoT mafia, we should let that pot boil/fester a while longer.
Major points against Zaj:
1. The manner in which he voted, unvoted, then voted AE again.
2. Inability to provide reasons for voting loran.
3. Becoming defeatist after being voted.
Those points aren't actually all that strong; it's just the fact that they aren't really counterbalanced by any town tells either. Pretty much everything Zaj has said strikes me as either neutral or scummy. However, speed of that wagon erodes my confidence to the point that I'd rather watch him a bit longer, and perhaps take a closer look instead at the people on his wagon.
Zajnet's vote/unvote/revote are more likely to be town play than scum play. A scum would generally be too worried about looking like scum there to make that move.
As for Axel's point..shrug. I feel like RobRoy had more to say than what Axel is stating.
I would agree with that, except for the manner and timing in which he did it. His original vote was extremely self-conscious that what he was doing was scummy, and came when everyone (except kpaca, who didn't really give reasons) was saying that the claim was scummy. He unvoted when people were generally saying we should leave him alive. He voted again just after SB's post calling everyone idiots and naming AE scum. He was either trying to go with the flow, or he's just extremely impressionable.
Those are not reasons for voting loran. Those are a bunch of quotes. What about them makes you think that loran is scum?
[I]On Cyan:[/I]
Main points against Cyan:
The manner of Cyan's change of opinion on loran is the biggest reason I'm voting Cyan. I brought this up in my post here that had the case against Cyan, but I'm reiterating it because it kind of got lost in a lot of other, smaller points, and it's the main reason why other people need to be voting Cyan. The way that Cyan argues for loran being scum [I]makes no sense if he's town.[/I] His mindset isn't evolving as new evidence is uncovered; it's completely changing whenever it becomes convenient. I can't explain it very well, which is extremely frustrating, but the gist of it is that his mindset is scummy.
And honestly, you guys are setting a fair double standard for me. If I don't let off of AE, it's just 'oh Cyan is just being a bulldog again, guess we'll ignore him'. If I do, it's 'zomgwtfbbqhaxxors Cyan unvoted someone, he must be scum'.
The thing is, you were saying that you were so sure that AE was scum, that you wanted to be killed if we don't lynch him. Then, you completely lost all interest when Robroy said that the case against him wasn't particularly good. You can't have [I]that[/I] much faith in what RR says, even if you are 100% certain he's town. RR didn't even say that AE was definitely town.
The only reason I'm not completely calling "zomgwtfbbqhaxxors" is because my read of the AE wagon is of you pushing a weak target, and this unvote seems like an odd move in that case.
I was looking for an excuse to jump off of the Zaj wagon? The one that A)I started and B)I advocated continuing with after he claimed? Yeah okay.
Also, that is not the post by Loran that I was referring to. It should be obvious that I was referring to 865, considering that, you know, I immediately commented on it.
Anyway, that post is super-scummy. Loran talks about wanting to lynch TACKY instead of Zajnet, and then immediately says tries to push forward with lynching Zajnet anyway.
Main indicator of the scumminess of the post, however: Loran himself knows(and says) that it's bad.
Vote Loran
Why are you only voting loran now? You've been saying he was scummy since like 300 posts ago. You had a vote on Zajnet for some of that time, but I don't get why weren't you voting him before then?
[I]
On joboman:[/I]
I have a hard time reading joboman; I thought he was town in Asphodel Meadows (where he was scum) and the way his brain works is antithetical to mine. I didn't think most of the case against him was particularly strong (his suggestion for a mass claim, for example, is a null tell), though I didn't like how he brings up "stupidity is not a scum tell." That's very true, but saying that about yourself is acknowledging that you know your points are bad.
The main thing I didn't like about joboman though were his vote and quick unvote of zajnet. The case before his vote felt slapped together and didn't really hit any of the things that were actually scummy about Zajnet.
[COLOR=DarkOrange][COLOR="Black"]Unvote.[/COLOR] Townie post is townie. Must think.[/COLOR]
What about that post was especially townie? Because I don't see it.
[I]Bilbroxain:[/I]
I had a weak town read on Ced, but I haven't been too fond of Bilbro's wagon hopping. I can't remember a single bit of original reasoning from him. Also, his vote of loran here strikes me as a huge overreaction:
Why shouldn't anyone target Vezok? Even if he's false-claiming (which I highly doubt), then he'd be caught if he can't correctly give his info. If he's scum with that role (which I also doubt, though it's more likely) then he's still obligated to give us the info he obtains. Most likely though, he's town and thus there's no reason not to power him up.
We just need to coordinate it.
[I]On loran:[/I]
I'm really not feeling this wagon on loran at all. Loran's one of my stronger town reads. I guess it's mostly gut, but he feels the same as he did day 1 in Asphodel (sidenote -- I only replaced loran that game because I was almost certain he was town -- I didn't particularly want to be scum for the first time in a game as complicated as that). If I'm feeling up to it I'll go back and look for some of the posts that made me think he was town.
Actually, if loran is town I think Cyan is scum. However, I am much more confident that loran is scum. He isn't even building a real case (against me, TACKY, or anyone else), he's just quoting mediocre posts and pretending that they're obvious scum tells.
It's funny, because that's exactly what I feel people are doing with loran. I do agree with the first sentence though.
Actually, if loran is town I think Cyan is scum. However, I am much more confident that loran is scum. He isn't even building a real case (against me, TACKY, or anyone else), he's just quoting mediocre posts and pretending that they're obvious scum tells.
Unvote
Vote loran16
I don't expect I'll change my vote again today.
I love it when a scum player attempts to try and lynch a townie and then setup the next day's lynch in the same post. </sarcasm>. You are assuming here that the two of us couldn't be town. Why is that? Please explain.
Also, I've way back explained why i voted Tacky. Seriously, i even re-explained it to you recently. Now you're not even trying.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I love it when a scum player attempts to try and lynch a townie and then setup the next day's lynch in the same post. </sarcasm>. You are assuming here that the two of us couldn't be town. Why is that? Please explain.
Cyan only attacked you when it was convenient. He hasn't really been leading any wagons, he's just been going with the flow. Do you think that's town Cyan play? However, if you're scum (which I think you are), then Cyan looks somewhat better.
By the way, I'm not the only player who feels this way about you and Cyan, so the fact that you only have a problem with me saying so only strengthens the case against you.
@AsianInvasion- When did i say i was voting Tacky for stupidity? This is a dude who's done multiple FOSing, and who then kept changing his main reason for voting me when pressed (see me and Ced on this very point earlier). That's not bad logic...that's the evidence of a scummy mindset (trying to get multiple accusations to stick and then changing one's accusations when people call you on them.)
1. I agree that TACKY's early FoS action was horrible.
2. I don't recall each reason he gave for voting you, but I do remember him having a problem with your suggestion to mass-claim (which was an obv null tell).
3. Condensing "spreading weak early suspicion" and "repeatedly changing his reasons for voting" into a vote is fine, but you did not state those initially. IIRC you just called out his mediocre case against joboman and voted. The retroactive reasoning you gave in the above post isn't enough when you consider it alongside your recent jumpy play re: Zajnet and myself.
Observation:
kpaca, a claimed neutral, is among the most townish players in this game right now. Sad.
Cyan only attacked you when it was convenient. He hasn't really been leading any wagons, he's just been going with the flow. Do you think that's town Cyan play? However, if you're scum (which I think you are), then Cyan looks somewhat better.
By the way, I'm not the only player who feels this way about you and Cyan, so the fact that you only have a problem with me saying so only strengthens the case against you.
Errr didn't Cyan start the Zajnet wagon? He's crusading as normal..doesn't seem like not going against the flow.
Also, please find me those "other players".
Found it:
1. I agree that TACKY's early FoS action was horrible.
2. I don't recall each reason he gave for voting you, but I do remember him having a problem with your suggestion to mass-claim (which was an obv null tell).
3. Condensing "spreading weak early suspicion" and "repeatedly changing his reasons for voting" into a vote is fine, but you did not state those initially. IIRC you just called out his mediocre case against joboman and voted. The retroactive reasoning you gave in the above post isn't enough when you consider it alongside your recent jumpy play re: Zajnet and myself.
Errrr, I voted Tacky back in post 418 before the Joboman case even happened. The talks that lead to that vote are in the posts of ced and myself preceding this.
Wanna try again?
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
However, speed of that wagon erodes my confidence to the point that I'd rather watch him a bit longer, and perhaps take a closer look instead at the people on his wagon.
Speed means little. Take a look at D1 of Kaizer mafia (all 6-7 pages).
Bilbroxain:
Also, his vote of loran here strikes me as a huge overreaction:
Woop woop. I finally got the time to re-read AsianInvasion. It doesn't look good. Nothing really helpful, contradictions, and that whole affair at the beginning that I never quite liked...
Stormblind, you may turn me gold.
I assume that if you turn your rival gold or your rival turns you Color X the two of you would be able to target yourselves and turn yourselves your original color again. Otherwise, you outing yourself means your rival will target you and be at a huge advantage (-1 Gold +1 X) right off the bat with no hope for you to target yourself to reverse that swing.
vezokpiraka is probably town but is definitely annoying me.
Vote Talore
Here's his first post of the game, where he did that. If you recall, he didn't take it off for a while.
Seriously, it's called an "internal monologue" for a reason. Sharing thoughts is useful but stating the obvious is not.
I do not like how quickly you suggested this (especially given what RobRoy just posted). Everyone has that ability.
Making such a list puts power roles at risk to some extent, but I can also see the benefits if it works as proposed. However, I do not think that players will be informed that they were targeted, so there is absolutely no way in enforce the list. (RobRoy beat me to the punch on this one.)
Basically this post is just /barning RobRoy because he 'nathed me.
In this post he doesn't like loran16's idea, barning RobRoy...
While we're speculating on the setup, I'm going to venture a guess that a cop or doc who works in the way you described probably can only affect one (maybe two) other players each Night.
Talore's vote on loran feels forced to me.
And in this one he calls me out for voting loran16 for the exact same thing. Note how he is speculating; later on he says that gaming the mod is bad...
I do not get bad vibes from Talore right now. Newer players generally want to know why people are voting for them. Talore simply asked for an explanation, which looks a lot better than him OMGUSing me or something to that extent.
I do not like how happy vezokpiraka is to barn with weak suspicion based on mediocre evidence but ultimately fence-sit. It's probably a n00b tell more than anything but I'll note it.
I do not understand what the discussion between Zchinque and RobRoy is about. I noticed RobRoy's vote and also noticed Zchinque's lag in responding to it but didn't think much about it because I wasn't sure what the reasoning behind the whole thing was. I have a slight town read on Zchinque and no read on RobRoy.
This game is stagnating, badly.
I think he explains his strategy for the early game here. Put pressure on a noob player and hope he implodes.
My vote on Talore was all gut, but there was no reason for me to say so initially. I wanted to see his reaction to pressure, and when I did, I didn't like it. When I found out that he's a new player I removed my vote because it explained the awkwardness I felt from his play.
I do not like how loran racked up three votes in no time at all. vezokpiraka I can understand, but AE should know better.
I also do not like how readily AE and Zajnet barned TACKY. It's almost as if they don't have opinions of their own.
ced got it right: Advocating a bad plan is like being on a mislynch wagon; doing so is poor but not scummy in and of itself. loran could certainly be scum, but I don't think his plan makes him more likely than anyone else.
I await loran's response to the attacks against him.
Switches his reasoning. Gut? I had exactly one post.
Contradicts himself with modgaming, his ploy at the beginning, and now with the reason on voting loran16, hopping from the stagnating wagon to the fresh one.
Unvote; vote AsianInvasion
Contradicts himself with modgaming, his ploy at the beginning, and now with the reason on voting loran16, hopping from the stagnating wagon to the fresh one.
Unvote; vote AsianInvasion
That's...it?
Speculating as to what roles may exist is one thing and serves nothing more than to generate discussion, but using speculation as the basis for an attack or lynch is clearly wrong.
My "ploy" was me having a bad gut feeling from you which went away after you made some more posts. That's bad...how?
If you were paying attention you'd have seen that I had already stated that loran gave me bad vibes prior to voting him. I didn't decide to change my vote simply because Zajnet's wagon was dying. In fact, I'm pretty sure I stated that Zajnet seemed like town to me, so I was actively looking for scum to wagon.
I think it's quite bizarre that you think your case is better than any that currently exists, be it against Archmage Eternal, Cyan, joboman, or loran. I guess it's a point in your favor that your attack seems genuine and thought-out, though.
Speculating as to what roles may exist is one thing and serves nothing more than to generate discussion, but using speculation as the basis for an attack or lynch is clearly wrong.
My "ploy" was me having a bad gut feeling from you which went away after you made some more posts. That's bad...how?
If you were paying attention you'd have seen that I had already stated that loran gave me bad vibes prior to voting him. I didn't decide to change my vote simply because Zajnet's wagon was dying. In fact, I'm pretty sure I stated that Zajnet seemed like town to me, so I was actively looking for scum to wagon.
I think it's quite bizarre that you think your case is better than any that currently exists, be it against Archmage Eternal, Cyan, joboman, or loran. I guess it's a point in your favor that your attack seems genuine and thought-out, though.
Mind responding to my last post then? 943 i think it is. I find it hard to believe you missed it, considering it renders your entire point against me (retroactive reasoning, only voting when the joboman wagon started) moot.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I really can't see joboman as scum this game. I really really can't see Cyan as scum in this game.
TACKY, I'm not so sure about. I need to reread him.
Why did the AE wagon fall apart? His claim makes no sense, and he probably has a 1-shot scum ability if he has any ability. Why aren't we lynching him?
I feel like this post is just trying to take advantage of a lull to bring up a subject that has largely been moved on from.
It doesn't feel like a post a townie would make.
Looks like I have someone to re-read now.
Cyan was one of the first to express suspicion, but that's very weak suspicion to be sure.
As much as I want to see what this game has to offer in the way of funky mechanics, I can do that from the sidelines as mislynch #1.
BTW, y'all realize that kpaca doesn't win with the town or with the scum. He has no reason to help y'all lynch scum, just so long as he doesn't get lynched.
This is a scum post, through and through. He actually doesn't even try to argue that he is town anywhere in it. Unvote, Vote Zajnet
Cyan was the fourth vote on the wagon.
In a manner of speaking, Cyan "started" the wagon, but that's like saying that gravity "started" a boulder rolling down a cliff. Gravity is why the boulder's there in the first place and gravity gives it momentum to roll along, but it doesn't push it out of its niche by itself.
Actually, if loran is town I think Cyan is scum. However, I am much more confident that loran is scum. He isn't even building a real case (against me, TACKY, or anyone else), he's just quoting mediocre posts and pretending that they're obvious scum tells.
It's funny, because that's exactly what I feel people are doing with loran. I do agree with the first sentence though.
I considered mentioning DM in my initial post but decided I would rather see if you're paying attention. I like how this panned out.
Errrr, I voted Tacky back in post 418 before the Joboman case even happened. The talks that lead to that vote are in the posts of ced and myself preceding this.
Wanna try again?
My mistake. You did, however, try to say that TACKY's behavior re: joboman was scummy when it was not. I must have misremembered the order of events.
If people want to vote me because I lost track of the post time line from three weeks ago...I can't help you there.
For the record, that was also not my only point against you. It was only a supporting point to the fact that your votes so far have been based on weak tells despite your arguments to the contrary. My vote stands.
I did a quick reread of the Zajnet case because I couldn't remember why it fell apart. At first it seemed like a slam dunk...then everyone and their mother jumped on the wagon. Either that was one hell of a bus job or Zajnet's just n00b town, and I think the latter's more likely and why people stopped trying to lynch him.
I think the worst votes on the wagon were Flew's and joboman's, though Talore's came at a really opportune time and came with no supporting evidence. (3rd vote tell anyone?)
After the claim:
joboman unvotes and Syrenz and Bilbroxain vote. jobo's "townie post is townie" is a complete 180 and should have received more scrutiny. Bilb's self-purported bad town play feels a lot like jobo's "stupidity is not a scum tell" spiel; not terribly convincing.
It seems that right now we have a few somewhat scummy players (loran, joboman, Bilbroxain) and a lot of lesser suspicious characters (Cyan, AE, Talore, Flew, zindabad) but no consensus for the lynch. We should sort this out while there's still Daylight left. With that in mind:
@Dagger: A vote count & prods as necessary would be greatly appreciated. TIA.
With a last post of over 72 hours ago, a prod has been sent to the following Goo: zindabad, Axelrod, StormBlind, TACKY, vezokpiraka, joboman
They have 48 hours to respond by posting in this thread.
Deadline is tentatively 21 days from this post, to be extended or reduced depending on circumstances.
I considered mentioning DM in my initial post but decided I would rather see if you're paying attention. I like how this panned out.
Missed that....okay, so Dancing Mad (and AE, but we're not lynching him today anyhow) is doing this bad action as well. Noted.
My mistake. You did, however, try to say that TACKY's behavior re: joboman was scummy when it was not. I must have misremembered the order of events.
If people want to vote me because I lost track of the post time line from three weeks ago...I can't help you there.
For the record, that was also not my only point against you. It was only a supporting point to the fact that your votes so far have been based on weak tells despite your arguments to the contrary. My vote stands.
Errr no? My vote on Tacky has not been for weak tells. Your whole vote was based on my vote on Tacky (and yourself? I can't recall seriously voting anyone else this game, it's been that long) being for him presenting a bad case on Joboman (bad logic...a weak tell).
This isn't the case. My reasons are sound, but now that i've pointed them out you ignore them and pretend they're weak.
Quote from Asian »
Actually, if loran is town I think Cyan is scum. However, I am much more confident that loran is scum. He isn't even building a real case (against me, TACKY, or anyone else), he's just quoting mediocre posts and pretending that they're obvious scum tells.
Unvote
Vote loran16
Quote from Asian in next post »
My reasons for voting are more legitimate than "Wow, TACKY, your case against joboman is terrible! VOTE."
Also, if I'm so scummy, where's your vote, Talore?
Looks to me like your only justification was based upon me voting Tacky for a reason that is clearly false.
"Weak Tells"...show me those, please.
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Checking in from the prod, got busy with my other 3 games lol.
I still don't understand why Zaj isn't the lynch today. Every other case has had mild reception, a few who buy it and a few who don't. Zaj is the one case that has resulted in obvscum. What's he up to now? Hardcore lurking and witty one-liners. I'm interested in hearing the other cases, but I'm more interested in lynching scum, and Zajnet is that scum.
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I'm finally taking a long hard look at Zajnet. Finally.
First post was unimpressive and mainly repeating what other people had already said:
Quote from Zajnet »
I'm going to /barn everyone who's saying that if anybody flips Gold Cult or something of the sort then we kill SB, but for now leave him alone. I'm hesitant to put myself up for Goldifying without knowing more what it does. I also agree that loran could be SB's "evil" counterpart, but who knows.
But it was just a first post. No biggie.
Next few posts are about kpaca/SB and they don't tell me very much given that those two claimed neutrals and scum could react to them pretty much the same way as Town.
Post #205 is slightly interesting, mainly for the way he says that he feels "better" about Loran as compared to his initial reactions, when he's not previously stated any opinions on Loran. But then, when I criticize Loran, he immediately /barns me in #212, and acts more suspicious of Loran.
So, did you like Loran's post or not?
I didn't care that Zaj asked people why SB was called Rahl. That's a silly point that might only have a tiny amount of relevance if Zaj was getting any kind of pressure at that point in the game, which he wasn't.
More /barning in #509. There's no question that Zaj is being lazy this game. I can't exactly call him out for this, however, as I've been quite lazy myself. Here he votes AE
He does seem to contradict himself a bit then, by immedaitely arguing in his next post (#559) that we should let AE live another day, which is what some, including me, have argued. And he then Unvotes.
Zaj appears very easily swayed by the arguments of others.
Falconn calls him out for this very switch, and Zaj simply says he hadn't realized the benefits of leaving AE alive for a day. He laments his meta of always appearing scummy on Day 1 in #610.
Then he does another reversal on AE and votes him again in #625. Says he's realized the "error" of his thought processes.
I don't like This post either. What is Zaj saying? That vezok's post isn't scummy coming from him, but we should still lynch him? That vezok should now be in favor of his own lynch? I don't get it.
Don't like #765 either. More /barning. And now he's really pushing the AE thing, which he hasn't done before and doesn't explain it more than "his claim makes no sense..." How does it make no sense, exactly?
In #800, Zaj takes another seemingly abrupt turn, and votes Loran. Says he's been "re-reading" him (which would be a good thing), but doesn't really support the vote very much beyond saying he's getting bad "vibes."
Key for me here is what other people have been saying about Loran. I was the only one voting for him. Joboman had the most votes. AE was down to just 2 voters at that point. So Zaj could be viewed as abandoning a wagon that was going nowhere (fine) and trying to puch another (also fine). His choice of Loran looks like it could also have been motivated by the fact that several other players (AI, Cyan) had recently made posts critical of Loran. So even though Loran didn't have the majority votes, he might have felt there was some momentum in that direction.
This is when Zaj starts to accumulate some votes, and starts to get defensive. Syranz says he gets bad vibes off a post and Zaj comments "that's nice." Kpaca doesn't like his tone and votes him, and Zaj snipes (paraphrase) "how come you get to be snarky and not me?"
Then he asks the "How come SB is called Rahl" question again, in CAPS. I like this repeating of the question and timing of same less.
He's pressed to explain his Loran vote, and responds by quoting a few posts of Loran's (without explaining what about those posts he didn't like). Says
Happy now?" And this gets him even more flack. Then gets all fatalistic in #818.
Zaj's primary defense appears to be that he just always looks like scum when he's town. This, as you can imagine, is not a great defense.
Claim is in #842. Looking at it again, the "flavor" of this claim is pretty bad. Someone told you you tasted like vanilla. You licked yourself and didn't like the way you tasted, so you got mad at the person who told you you tasted like vanilla and want to make him lick himself? What the heck does that even mean?
Does anyone else have ridiculous flavor like this? My flavor makes sense for the role that I have (I'm, like, an elder Goo and the young Goo still come to me when they get scared, which is the flavor for me protecting people when they target me.) This "vanilla" role seems weird and off. I think someone else already said it, but it sounds angry.
Now Zaj has also used a real life situation to explain some of his testiness, and I can't argue with that. There's a certain genuineness to his frustration in some posts, like #859. Question is whether he'd have the same frustrations as scum or Town.
#906 feels a bit off, as Zaj is the huge vote leader, and he's acting like everyone ought to obviously be lynching Loran at this point. No, you need to be defending yourself better is what you need to be doing.
Bleck. I read all that I still don't know. But I can say I don't think Zaj would be a bad lynch. He's certainly not shining through as particularly town. And he's claimed "vanilla." I would easily support his lynch over a no Lynch at a deadline.
I'm still going to try and look at some other people. If I can't find someone I can get more excited about, I'd go with Zaj.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@AI: so I'm a somewhat supicious character because I wagon hop and had one overreaction? And that makes me one of the larger suspects? uh huh, right. I support either a Loran or Zajnet lynch.
uh huh, right. I support either a Loran or Zajnet lynch.
Why?
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Then he asks the "How come SB is called Rahl" question again, in CAPS. I like this repeating of the question and timing of same less.
This question still hasn't been answered, and its bugging me.
As to the part about how I should be defending myself: as you've said, I'm vanilla. I'm more useful to the town if I spend my time scumhunting than attempting to defend myself. I know how kpaca and others operate, and I don't have a chance if they decide to lynch me. There's literally nothing I could say to defend myself against people that much more experienced than me, without playing the noob card. But I'm not a noob anymore, and I wouldn't play that card even if I was.
About the claim, that's the flavor I was given. I'm town. Live with it.
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for you, it's because I simply don't understand how some of the things you said can come from a town standpoint. And then there's the ever-present gut feeling I've got (and that's right about 75% of the time).
For Zajnet, it's a combination of LIPS, bad arguments, and a claim that does nothing to dissuade doubts.
for you, it's because I simply don't understand how some of the things you said can come from a town standpoint. And then there's the ever-present gut feeling I've got (and that's right about 75% of the time).
.
Examples please.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
As to the part about how I should be defending myself: as you've said, I'm vanilla. I'm more useful to the town if I spend my time scumhunting than attempting to defend myself. I know how kpaca and others operate, and I don't have a chance if they decide to lynch me. There's literally nothing I could say to defend myself against people that much more experienced than me, without playing the noob card. But I'm not a noob anymore, and I wouldn't play that card even if I was.
About the claim, that's the flavor I was given. I'm town. Live with it.
It is not true that there is "nothing you can say" if players more experienced than you decide to go after you. They are, presumably, "going after" you for a reason, and this reason is incorrect if you are Town. Like, one reason is that you seemed to flip-flop on AE, voting to Lynch, then Unvoting, then voting to lynch again. Also on Loran. People can change their minds, but in this game, if you do you should probably explain what caused the change.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
SB used to have the user name "Lord Rahl." He changed it. Why it was Lord Rahl to begin with I have no idea.
It is not true that there is "nothing you can say" if players more experienced than you decide to go after you. They are, presumably, "going after" you for a reason, and this reason is incorrect if you are Town. Like, one reason is that you seemed to flip-flop on AE, voting to Lynch, then Unvoting, then voting to lynch again. Also on Loran. People can change their minds, but in this game, if you do you should probably explain what caused the change.
Thank you for answering that simple question *glares at others who obviously know the answer*
I flip flopped on AE because I agreed with people that leaving him alive for 1 night was OK incase he was telling the truth, but then I realized (other people's posts helped me reach this conclusion) that he could very easily be a scum with a 1-shot ability. Partly what made me think of that is that I saw it happen in a game I was reading over on mafiascum (don't remember which one it was now).
About loran, I think he's scum. I've provided my reasoning. If you don't like the reasons I've given, then lynch me.
As for the claim, it is what it is.
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Could someone please explain to me why the Zaj wagon fragmenting the way it has indicates that he is likely townie? I would think that happens to both sides.
Also, what are the main points against Loran right now. I need to do a reread on him obviously as I've had him in my neutral pile all game. I'll try to work on that tonight.
On Bilbro, some of the stuff he's said raises some red flags but I'd be content putting him on the back boiler for right now. There are others that I'm more suspicious of then him.
As for Cyan, I said things the way I did in order to provoke a response. Unfortunately I'm having a difficult time telling whether that is righteous anger from a town side, or that your just upset for being called out for doing what you did.
I think that covers the major stuff that's happening right now. Also, I thought I was voting Zaj but was apparently not. I still feel like he's been scummy, and as I've said before his claim really seals the deal for me.
Errr no? My vote on Tacky has not been for weak tells. Your whole vote was based on my vote on Tacky (and yourself? I can't recall seriously voting anyone else this game, it's been that long) being for him presenting a bad case on Joboman (bad logic...a weak tell).
This isn't the case. My reasons are sound, but now that i've pointed them out you ignore them and pretend they're weak.
Looks to me like your only justification was based upon me voting Tacky for a reason that is clearly false.
"Weak Tells"...show me those, please.
Simplified version of events as I recall them:
1. TACKY FoSes multiple players.
2. loran votes TACKY.
3. TACKY makes mediocre case against joboman.
4. loran affirms vote.
5. Other stuff happens.
6. loran moves away from TACKY case and votes AI.
7. AI doesn't like loran's progression from 2. to 4. to 6. and votes loran.
I consider 1. and 3. to be weak tells. Does that clarify things?
@AI: so I'm a somewhat supicious character because I wagon hop and had one overreaction? And that makes me one of the larger suspects? uh huh, right.
You put Zajnet at L-1 while we were still discussing his claim, and now that people are rallying against loran you've happily followed along. This post inspires no confidence, either.
Simplified version of events as I recall them:
1. TACKY FoSes multiple players.
2. loran votes TACKY.
3. TACKY makes mediocre case against joboman.
4. loran affirms vote.
5. Other stuff happens.
6. loran moves away from TACKY case and votes AI.
7. AI doesn't like loran's progression from 2. to 4. to 6. and votes loran.
I consider 1. and 3. to be weak tells. Does that clarify things?
Except you're missing points. AGAIN.
Ced's 299 starts the reasons for voting Tacky, which is more than just about the FOSes, but about how he votes me.
Then after his response, I respond here noting the fact that he just attempted to change his justification for voting me. That's the biggy here...upon being called for his reason, he shifts the reasoning and claims that this new reason was the reason for voting me all along.
I believe i've mentioned this in our conversation at least twice so far before this too....why do you keep ignoring it?
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
You know AsianInvasion, since you can't seem to recall things correctly, you might want to you know...actually reread the events. It might help.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Ced's 299 starts the reasons for voting Tacky, which is more than just about the FOSes, but about how he votes me.
Then after his response, I respond here noting the fact that he just attempted to change his justification for voting me. That's the biggy here...upon being called for his reason, he shifts the reasoning and claims that this new reason was the reason for voting me all along.
I believe i've mentioned this in our conversation at least twice so far before this too....why do you keep ignoring it?
Ugh, I did miss that.
At any rate, TACKY could have either fabricated his reasons for voting or simply used new reasons to back up his old reasons. The wording isn't clear-cut either way because he specifically mentions both your mass-claim suggestion and your OMGUS/deflection in the post directed at ced, so he apparently believes both to be valid. I don't find it significant that he states that one is his primary reason and then later says that the other is so long as he truly believes what he's saying.
Ugh, I did miss that.
At any rate, TACKY could have either fabricated his reasons for voting or simply used new reasons to back up his old reasons. The wording isn't clear-cut either way because he specifically mentions both your mass-claim suggestion and your OMGUS/deflection in the post directed at ced, so he apparently believes both to be valid. I don't find it significant that he states that one is his primary reason and then later says that the other is so long as he truly believes what he's saying.
My point is that his changing which is the primary shows that he doesn't believe in what he's saying...he was more interested in justifying himself in the face of questioning, and thus the switch, as opposed to actually trying to scum hunt using valid tells.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
My point is that his changing which is the primary shows that he doesn't believe in what he's saying...he was more interested in justifying himself in the face of questioning, and thus the switch, as opposed to actually trying to scum hunt using valid tells.
It's a tell all right, but I think it's a weak one. Town sometimes reorder the scumminess of points against their opponents, and I'm not convinced either way. I never liked the attack against TACKY but I can see how it may come from a mindset that isn't scummy.
My other points, especially regarding how you are leaving TACKY alone now to go after me despite your prior conviction regarding TACKY's guilt, stand.
It's a tell all right, but I think it's a weak one. Town sometimes reorder the scumminess of points against their opponents, and I'm not convinced either way. I never liked the attack against TACKY but I can see how it may come from a mindset that isn't scummy.
The point isn't that he wasn't saying that oh this is more scummy now. It's that he was claiming that first X was his main reason for voting me originally, and then later he CLAIMED that Y was his original reason.
He's not saying one tell is now what he finds the strongest, he was saying that back then, a certain tell was why i voted you primarily, when it clearly wasn't the case. It's retroactive history.
My other points, especially regarding how you are leaving TACKY alone now to go after me despite your prior conviction regarding TACKY's guilt, stand.
I'll make a mini case on you shortly.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Does anyone else have ridiculous flavor like this?
I'm not sure about ridiculous, but my flavour is extremely silly. It does make sense for my role, though.
I'm not sold on Zajnet, but I do have strong reservations about him. I know I've said this before, but I will try to finish off my reread today.
Also, @mod: if you want the deadline to inspire posting, I would recommend moving it up to two weeks from now instead of three. Still plenty of time for people to post, while not being so far away that we say "Oh, I'll have time to get to that later."
Im kind of getting curious about cyan to be fair. His attitude here reminds me a great deal of his attitude in Anita Blake. Almost nonchalant, not posting too much, and with no conviction to the cases he's chasing. Its definitely suspicious to me. But lorans often scum, and cyan OFTEN buses, so that doesnt help him at all. heh.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Speed means little. Take a look at D1 of Kaizer mafia (all 6-7 pages).
It's true that a fast wagon isn't necessarily a bad wagon, but I don't feel like Zaj's actions were quite scummy enough that it should have been quite that fast. Obviously, if someone claims scum or something they're going to get quick-lynched, but if a bunch of people vote someone for a very minor tell, then I'm going to be suspicious. What Zaj did was somewhere in between. Even without knowing Zaj's alignment, I still feel like his wagon is worth looking at today.
Missed that....okay, so Dancing Mad (and AE, but we're not lynching him today anyhow) is doing this bad action as well. Noted.
Er...What bad action am I doing? If you're saying that I'm trying to set up second target, then I don't see how that makes sense -- if you flip town it wouldn't change anything really, nor would Cyan flipping town (though if I'm wrong and you flip scum then I'd probably back off of Cyan). My agreement with AI was a kind of joke; I think that you are town and Cyan is my best bet for scum. I guess I should have put a or something in there to make that clearer.
Though, I don't think the point is a very good one against AI either. I have to leave very soon and it would take me longer to articulate than I have time right now, so I'm going to leave that for Monday, I guess.
The point isn't that he wasn't saying that oh this is more scummy now. It's that he was claiming that first X was his main reason for voting me originally, and then later he CLAIMED that Y was his original reason.
He's not saying one tell is now what he finds the strongest, he was saying that back then, a certain tell was why i voted you primarily, when it clearly wasn't the case. It's retroactive history.
Now that I read it for the third (fourth?) time I can see what you mean; I am slowly coming around to your point of view. I would like TACKY to respond to your accusations.
Just a quivering pile of Goo:
1. Dagger - Azure Goo, The Vanilla-Flavored Goo (Town) – Killed on Prelude
I guess I could see a "vanilla" pun being part of Zajnet's flavor (a pun itself). The "this flavor sounds angry/vengeful" line of thinking is silly because the flavor is centered around the fact that he's supposed to be vanilla, which is why his role licked itself to begin with. If you think the flavor is true then the claim must be true because they are completely intertwined. If the flavor is fabricated then the claim likely is as well. If the scum have daytalk, I wouldn't be surprised if a cunning scumbuddy helped him come up with that. Ultimately his claim and accompanying flavor is a null tell or very weak town tell.
Also, @mod: if you want the deadline to inspire posting, I would recommend moving it up to two weeks from now instead of three. Still plenty of time for people to post, while not being so far away that we say "Oh, I'll have time to get to that later."
I hope it does increase activity because otherwise it's just unfair to active posters like myself.
Worst comes to worst, at least someone will die today so we won't waste the day with a No Lynch.
Im kind of getting curious about cyan to be fair. His attitude here reminds me a great deal of his attitude in Anita Blake. Almost nonchalant, not posting too much, and with no conviction to the cases he's chasing. Its definitely suspicious to me. But lorans often scum, and cyan OFTEN buses, so that doesnt help him at all. heh.
I'll add to this by stating that in Indiana Jones it was painfully obvious that Cyan did not care about the game as scum.
Skim through Heroes Mafia. I'm not going to say anything further about the game because it's ongoing, but just read Cyan's posts there (and note the simple fact that he was actually posting there but vanished from this thread).
Points of Order:
1. Should we give Archmage Eternal two or three investigation targets to choose from or let him make up his own mind?
2. Should we arrange for vezokpiraka to be targeted? By one or two others?
3. Axelrod, are you going to claim your color? (I'm going to keep asking this because I think it's very important.)
Points of Order:
1. Should we give Archmage Eternal two or three investigation targets to choose from or let him make up his own mind?
2. Should we arrange for vezokpiraka to be targeted? By one or two others?
3. Axelrod, are you going to claim your color? (I'm going to keep asking this because I think it's very important.)
1. I think 2 so there's a better chance of getting all scum. I'd say probably loran and Cyan, depending on if me or loran gets lynched today.
2. I would say arrange to have 1 person target him.
3. IDK, IDC
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Well, I don't know how to avoid AE wasting his investigation on me without just fully explaining my role, so..yeah.
I'm untargetable. I am currently +2 to lynch. I can make myself -2 to lynch and make someone else -2 to lynch at the same time(I can only target a person once with this ability, which is called the Weakness Hidden Trigger). If someone tries to NK me, it will fail and I will lose -3 to lynch. If someone tries to target me with a non-killing action, it will fail and I will lose -1 to lynch. If my lynch threshold ever just reaches zero during the day, I will die and the day will continue.
I thought about giving the Weakness Hidden Trigger to AE earlier, when he was L-2, but decided that I would just try to get him lynched the normal way, without having to weaken myself.
I should have made more of a case on Loran by now, which I suppose I will do. For whatever reason, I've had a harder time being active in this game than in other games I am currently in.
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You have now jumped on pretty much every single major wagon. And I say jumped because you did not start the zajnet wagon. You were vote 4. If anything I started that wagon.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?u=52729
Errr who are you talking to?
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Not that it really matters, since he and Loran can't really both be scum IMO, and Loran is the scummier of the two.
Unvote
Vote loran16
I don't expect I'll change my vote again today.
"Oh I said an incorrect statement but don't worry it doesn't matter."
Like seriously, I throw my hands in the air and give up with you guys. We went within 2 votes of taking zajnet to the house, and now we are lynching loran. *throws up hands in disgust*
Yeah, I just re-read you and that's calling the kettle black. You've jumped around and haven't built any concrete cases yourself.
I like how you added that last line.
My reasons for voting are more legitimate than "Wow, TACKY, your case against joboman is terrible! VOTE."
Also, if I'm so scummy, where's your vote, Talore?
Nice misrep. I never said you were scummy. Wagon-hopping could be a townie thing, I know that I found it easy to jump on wagons when I just started. On that topic, you certainly aren't looking too good.
That was a little thing I noticed; I have to re-read tomorrow as I've been a little jaded and groggy the last few days.
Stupid computer stalled for about ten minutes after trying to open the 41-posts AI had in the game.
What? You either have no idea what you are talking about or you are deliberately misrepresenting the situation.
You said:
...which means that you think I'm scummy because I called loran scummy for attacking mediocre posts and strawmanning his opponents to make their positions seem weaker, when you seem to believe that I'm guilty of the same (which would make me scum by my own logic).
Also, I like how you added that last line "I like how you added that last line." Are you seriously trying to pass that off as not calling me scummy?
Convenient that you are now saying, "you certainly aren't looking too good." when you had just said, "I never said you were scummy."
Your own logic isn't my logic. I see it as hypocritical because you're attacking someone for being like that, when you are like that. Scumminess has nothing to do with it, you could be scum and just attacking him for weakness in posting.
My last line was in reference to what other people brought up, that you've hopped on pretty much every wagon this game. I don't have the time right now to build a case, tomorrow.
Me saying how I never said scum was in reference to you misreping me, I never said those words. I was pointing out your hypocrisy.
Quoting two things in the same (3 sentence) paragraph is you trying to make me sound inconsistant? lol.
You did notice the line after, which said I have to re-read? Yeah. You trying to attack me right after I pointed you provoked me to look at you in the greater picture and realise you really haven't acted too townie this game. So I'm going to re-read tomorrow and decide if you are scum or not.
Lol.
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
Anyway, here are my thoughts. I'll give my reasoning on reads if you ask for it or it becomes relevant.
Neutral:
kpaca
SB
Town:
Robroy
Vez
Axelrod
Leaning town:
loran
AE
TACKY
Syrenz
Zchinque
Talore
Mixed/no read:
AI
falkonn
Flew
Zebi
zindabad
Minor scumspects:
Bilbroxain
joboman
Major scumspects:
Cyan
Zaj
[I]On Zajnet:[/I]
Even though I put Zaj in my "major scumspects" category, as it stands I wouldn't really want to lynch him. To use Azrael's terminology in SoT mafia, we should let that pot boil/fester a while longer.
Major points against Zaj:
1. The manner in which he voted, unvoted, then voted AE again.
2. Inability to provide reasons for voting loran.
3. Becoming defeatist after being voted.
Those points aren't actually all that strong; it's just the fact that they aren't really counterbalanced by any town tells either. Pretty much everything Zaj has said strikes me as either neutral or scummy. However, speed of that wagon erodes my confidence to the point that I'd rather watch him a bit longer, and perhaps take a closer look instead at the people on his wagon.
I would agree with that, except for the manner and timing in which he did it. His original vote was extremely self-conscious that what he was doing was scummy, and came when everyone (except kpaca, who didn't really give reasons) was saying that the claim was scummy. He unvoted when people were generally saying we should leave him alive. He voted again just after SB's post calling everyone idiots and naming AE scum. He was either trying to go with the flow, or he's just extremely impressionable.
Those are not reasons for voting loran. Those are a bunch of quotes. What about them makes you think that loran is scum?
[I]On Cyan:[/I]
Main points against Cyan:
The manner of Cyan's change of opinion on loran is the biggest reason I'm voting Cyan. I brought this up in my post here that had the case against Cyan, but I'm reiterating it because it kind of got lost in a lot of other, smaller points, and it's the main reason why other people need to be voting Cyan. The way that Cyan argues for loran being scum [I]makes no sense if he's town.[/I] His mindset isn't evolving as new evidence is uncovered; it's completely changing whenever it becomes convenient. I can't explain it very well, which is extremely frustrating, but the gist of it is that his mindset is scummy.
The thing is, you were saying that you were so sure that AE was scum, that you wanted to be killed if we don't lynch him. Then, you completely lost all interest when Robroy said that the case against him wasn't particularly good. You can't have [I]that[/I] much faith in what RR says, even if you are 100% certain he's town. RR didn't even say that AE was definitely town.
The only reason I'm not completely calling "zomgwtfbbqhaxxors" is because my read of the AE wagon is of you pushing a weak target, and this unvote seems like an odd move in that case.
Why are you only voting loran now? You've been saying he was scummy since like 300 posts ago. You had a vote on Zajnet for some of that time, but I don't get why weren't you voting him before then?
[I]
On joboman:[/I]
I have a hard time reading joboman; I thought he was town in Asphodel Meadows (where he was scum) and the way his brain works is antithetical to mine. I didn't think most of the case against him was particularly strong (his suggestion for a mass claim, for example, is a null tell), though I didn't like how he brings up "stupidity is not a scum tell." That's very true, but saying that about yourself is acknowledging that you know your points are bad.
The main thing I didn't like about joboman though were his vote and quick unvote of zajnet. The case before his vote felt slapped together and didn't really hit any of the things that were actually scummy about Zajnet.
What about that post was especially townie? Because I don't see it.
[I]Bilbroxain:[/I]
I had a weak town read on Ced, but I haven't been too fond of Bilbro's wagon hopping. I can't remember a single bit of original reasoning from him. Also, his vote of loran here strikes me as a huge overreaction:
[I]
On Vez:[/I]
Why shouldn't anyone target Vezok? Even if he's false-claiming (which I highly doubt), then he'd be caught if he can't correctly give his info. If he's scum with that role (which I also doubt, though it's more likely) then he's still obligated to give us the info he obtains. Most likely though, he's town and thus there's no reason not to power him up.
We just need to coordinate it.
[I]On loran:[/I]
I'm really not feeling this wagon on loran at all. Loran's one of my stronger town reads. I guess it's mostly gut, but he feels the same as he did day 1 in Asphodel (sidenote -- I only replaced loran that game because I was almost certain he was town -- I didn't particularly want to be scum for the first time in a game as complicated as that). If I'm feeling up to it I'll go back and look for some of the posts that made me think he was town.
It's funny, because that's exactly what I feel people are doing with loran. I do agree with the first sentence though.
Cyan does do that as town. Read my endgame case against him in Inheritance if you need proof.
~~~~~
Goocount
Zajnet (7) - Talore, vezokpiraka, TACKY, Archmage Eternal, Flew, Syrenz, StormBlind
loran16 (5) - Axelrod, Zajnet, Bilbroxain, Cyan, AsianInvasion
Cyan (2) - zindabad, Dancing Mad
AsianInvasion (2) - loran16, kpaca
Bilbroxain (1) - RobRoy
With 21 Goo alive, it’s 11 Goo to Lynch.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
I love it when a scum player attempts to try and lynch a townie and then setup the next day's lynch in the same post. </sarcasm>. You are assuming here that the two of us couldn't be town. Why is that? Please explain.
Also, I've way back explained why i voted Tacky. Seriously, i even re-explained it to you recently. Now you're not even trying.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Cyan only attacked you when it was convenient. He hasn't really been leading any wagons, he's just been going with the flow. Do you think that's town Cyan play? However, if you're scum (which I think you are), then Cyan looks somewhat better.
By the way, I'm not the only player who feels this way about you and Cyan, so the fact that you only have a problem with me saying so only strengthens the case against you.
Found it:
1. I agree that TACKY's early FoS action was horrible.
2. I don't recall each reason he gave for voting you, but I do remember him having a problem with your suggestion to mass-claim (which was an obv null tell).
3. Condensing "spreading weak early suspicion" and "repeatedly changing his reasons for voting" into a vote is fine, but you did not state those initially. IIRC you just called out his mediocre case against joboman and voted. The retroactive reasoning you gave in the above post isn't enough when you consider it alongside your recent jumpy play re: Zajnet and myself.
Observation:
kpaca, a claimed neutral, is among the most townish players in this game right now. Sad.
Errr didn't Cyan start the Zajnet wagon? He's crusading as normal..doesn't seem like not going against the flow.
Also, please find me those "other players".
Errrr, I voted Tacky back in post 418 before the Joboman case even happened. The talks that lead to that vote are in the posts of ced and myself preceding this.
Wanna try again?
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Speed means little. Take a look at D1 of Kaizer mafia (all 6-7 pages).
Agree with this.
Seriously, I cannot understand why we're not lynching Zajnet.
Going to do a reread of AI in the meantime, some of his latest posts have been bugging me.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Here's his first post of the game, where he did that. If you recall, he didn't take it off for a while.
In this post he doesn't like loran16's idea, barning RobRoy...
And in this one he calls me out for voting loran16 for the exact same thing. Note how he is speculating; later on he says that gaming the mod is bad...
I think he explains his strategy for the early game here. Put pressure on a noob player and hope he implodes.
Switches his reasoning. Gut? I had exactly one post.
Contradicts himself with modgaming, his ploy at the beginning, and now with the reason on voting loran16, hopping from the stagnating wagon to the fresh one.
Unvote; vote AsianInvasion
That's...it?
Speculating as to what roles may exist is one thing and serves nothing more than to generate discussion, but using speculation as the basis for an attack or lynch is clearly wrong.
My "ploy" was me having a bad gut feeling from you which went away after you made some more posts. That's bad...how?
If you were paying attention you'd have seen that I had already stated that loran gave me bad vibes prior to voting him. I didn't decide to change my vote simply because Zajnet's wagon was dying. In fact, I'm pretty sure I stated that Zajnet seemed like town to me, so I was actively looking for scum to wagon.
I think it's quite bizarre that you think your case is better than any that currently exists, be it against Archmage Eternal, Cyan, joboman, or loran. I guess it's a point in your favor that your attack seems genuine and thought-out, though.
Mind responding to my last post then? 943 i think it is. I find it hard to believe you missed it, considering it renders your entire point against me (retroactive reasoning, only voting when the joboman wagon started) moot.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
This post ended up a lot longer than I expected it to. It's got several points to it though, so do try to read it (almost half of it is quotes).
Let's take a look, shall we:
Cyan was one of the first to express suspicion, but that's very weak suspicion to be sure.
I was the first to put my suspicions down for the record.
Cyan was the fourth vote on the wagon.
In a manner of speaking, Cyan "started" the wagon, but that's like saying that gravity "started" a boulder rolling down a cliff. Gravity is why the boulder's there in the first place and gravity gives it momentum to roll along, but it doesn't push it out of its niche by itself.
I considered mentioning DM in my initial post but decided I would rather see if you're paying attention. I like how this panned out.
My mistake. You did, however, try to say that TACKY's behavior re: joboman was scummy when it was not. I must have misremembered the order of events.
If people want to vote me because I lost track of the post time line from three weeks ago...I can't help you there.
For the record, that was also not my only point against you. It was only a supporting point to the fact that your votes so far have been based on weak tells despite your arguments to the contrary. My vote stands.
I did a quick reread of the Zajnet case because I couldn't remember why it fell apart. At first it seemed like a slam dunk...then everyone and their mother jumped on the wagon. Either that was one hell of a bus job or Zajnet's just n00b town, and I think the latter's more likely and why people stopped trying to lynch him.
I already did this but no one seemed to respond:
I think the worst votes on the wagon were Flew's and joboman's, though Talore's came at a really opportune time and came with no supporting evidence. (3rd vote tell anyone?)
After the claim:
joboman unvotes and Syrenz and Bilbroxain vote. jobo's "townie post is townie" is a complete 180 and should have received more scrutiny. Bilb's self-purported bad town play feels a lot like jobo's "stupidity is not a scum tell" spiel; not terribly convincing.
It seems that right now we have a few somewhat scummy players (loran, joboman, Bilbroxain) and a lot of lesser suspicious characters (Cyan, AE, Talore, Flew, zindabad) but no consensus for the lynch. We should sort this out while there's still Daylight left. With that in mind:
@Dagger: A vote count & prods as necessary would be greatly appreciated. TIA.
They have 48 hours to respond by posting in this thread.
Deadline is tentatively 21 days from this post, to be extended or reduced depending on circumstances.
~~~~~
Goocount
Zajnet (6) - vezokpiraka, TACKY, Archmage Eternal, Flew, Syrenz, StormBlind
loran16 (5) - Axelrod, Zajnet, Bilbroxain, Cyan, AsianInvasion
AsianInvasion (3) - loran16, kpaca, Talore
Cyan (2) - zindabad, Dancing Mad
Bilbroxain (1) - RobRoy
With 21 Goo alive, it’s 11 Goo to Lynch.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Missed that....okay, so Dancing Mad (and AE, but we're not lynching him today anyhow) is doing this bad action as well. Noted.
Errr no? My vote on Tacky has not been for weak tells. Your whole vote was based on my vote on Tacky (and yourself? I can't recall seriously voting anyone else this game, it's been that long) being for him presenting a bad case on Joboman (bad logic...a weak tell).
This isn't the case. My reasons are sound, but now that i've pointed them out you ignore them and pretend they're weak.
Looks to me like your only justification was based upon me voting Tacky for a reason that is clearly false.
"Weak Tells"...show me those, please.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I still don't understand why Zaj isn't the lynch today. Every other case has had mild reception, a few who buy it and a few who don't. Zaj is the one case that has resulted in obvscum. What's he up to now? Hardcore lurking and witty one-liners. I'm interested in hearing the other cases, but I'm more interested in lynching scum, and Zajnet is that scum.
First post was unimpressive and mainly repeating what other people had already said:
But it was just a first post. No biggie.
Next few posts are about kpaca/SB and they don't tell me very much given that those two claimed neutrals and scum could react to them pretty much the same way as Town.
Post #205 is slightly interesting, mainly for the way he says that he feels "better" about Loran as compared to his initial reactions, when he's not previously stated any opinions on Loran. But then, when I criticize Loran, he immediately /barns me in #212, and acts more suspicious of Loran.
So, did you like Loran's post or not?
I didn't care that Zaj asked people why SB was called Rahl. That's a silly point that might only have a tiny amount of relevance if Zaj was getting any kind of pressure at that point in the game, which he wasn't.
More /barning in #509. There's no question that Zaj is being lazy this game. I can't exactly call him out for this, however, as I've been quite lazy myself. Here he votes AE
He does seem to contradict himself a bit then, by immedaitely arguing in his next post (#559) that we should let AE live another day, which is what some, including me, have argued. And he then Unvotes.
Zaj appears very easily swayed by the arguments of others.
Falconn calls him out for this very switch, and Zaj simply says he hadn't realized the benefits of leaving AE alive for a day. He laments his meta of always appearing scummy on Day 1 in #610.
Then he does another reversal on AE and votes him again in #625. Says he's realized the "error" of his thought processes.
I don't like This post either. What is Zaj saying? That vezok's post isn't scummy coming from him, but we should still lynch him? That vezok should now be in favor of his own lynch? I don't get it.
Don't like #765 either. More /barning. And now he's really pushing the AE thing, which he hasn't done before and doesn't explain it more than "his claim makes no sense..." How does it make no sense, exactly?
In #800, Zaj takes another seemingly abrupt turn, and votes Loran. Says he's been "re-reading" him (which would be a good thing), but doesn't really support the vote very much beyond saying he's getting bad "vibes."
Key for me here is what other people have been saying about Loran. I was the only one voting for him. Joboman had the most votes. AE was down to just 2 voters at that point. So Zaj could be viewed as abandoning a wagon that was going nowhere (fine) and trying to puch another (also fine). His choice of Loran looks like it could also have been motivated by the fact that several other players (AI, Cyan) had recently made posts critical of Loran. So even though Loran didn't have the majority votes, he might have felt there was some momentum in that direction.
This is when Zaj starts to accumulate some votes, and starts to get defensive. Syranz says he gets bad vibes off a post and Zaj comments "that's nice." Kpaca doesn't like his tone and votes him, and Zaj snipes (paraphrase) "how come you get to be snarky and not me?"
Then he asks the "How come SB is called Rahl" question again, in CAPS. I like this repeating of the question and timing of same less.
He's pressed to explain his Loran vote, and responds by quoting a few posts of Loran's (without explaining what about those posts he didn't like). Says
Happy now?" And this gets him even more flack. Then gets all fatalistic in #818.
Zaj's primary defense appears to be that he just always looks like scum when he's town. This, as you can imagine, is not a great defense.
Claim is in #842. Looking at it again, the "flavor" of this claim is pretty bad. Someone told you you tasted like vanilla. You licked yourself and didn't like the way you tasted, so you got mad at the person who told you you tasted like vanilla and want to make him lick himself? What the heck does that even mean?
Does anyone else have ridiculous flavor like this? My flavor makes sense for the role that I have (I'm, like, an elder Goo and the young Goo still come to me when they get scared, which is the flavor for me protecting people when they target me.) This "vanilla" role seems weird and off. I think someone else already said it, but it sounds angry.
Now Zaj has also used a real life situation to explain some of his testiness, and I can't argue with that. There's a certain genuineness to his frustration in some posts, like #859. Question is whether he'd have the same frustrations as scum or Town.
#906 feels a bit off, as Zaj is the huge vote leader, and he's acting like everyone ought to obviously be lynching Loran at this point. No, you need to be defending yourself better is what you need to be doing.
Bleck. I read all that I still don't know. But I can say I don't think Zaj would be a bad lynch. He's certainly not shining through as particularly town. And he's claimed "vanilla." I would easily support his lynch over a no Lynch at a deadline.
I'm still going to try and look at some other people. If I can't find someone I can get more excited about, I'd go with Zaj.
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
Why?
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
This question still hasn't been answered, and its bugging me.
As to the part about how I should be defending myself: as you've said, I'm vanilla. I'm more useful to the town if I spend my time scumhunting than attempting to defend myself. I know how kpaca and others operate, and I don't have a chance if they decide to lynch me. There's literally nothing I could say to defend myself against people that much more experienced than me, without playing the noob card. But I'm not a noob anymore, and I wouldn't play that card even if I was.
About the claim, that's the flavor I was given. I'm town. Live with it.
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
for you, it's because I simply don't understand how some of the things you said can come from a town standpoint. And then there's the ever-present gut feeling I've got (and that's right about 75% of the time).
For Zajnet, it's a combination of LIPS, bad arguments, and a claim that does nothing to dissuade doubts.
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
Examples please.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
SB used to have the user name "Lord Rahl." He changed it. Why it was Lord Rahl to begin with I have no idea.
It is not true that there is "nothing you can say" if players more experienced than you decide to go after you. They are, presumably, "going after" you for a reason, and this reason is incorrect if you are Town. Like, one reason is that you seemed to flip-flop on AE, voting to Lynch, then Unvoting, then voting to lynch again. Also on Loran. People can change their minds, but in this game, if you do you should probably explain what caused the change.
Thank you for answering that simple question *glares at others who obviously know the answer*
I flip flopped on AE because I agreed with people that leaving him alive for 1 night was OK incase he was telling the truth, but then I realized (other people's posts helped me reach this conclusion) that he could very easily be a scum with a 1-shot ability. Partly what made me think of that is that I saw it happen in a game I was reading over on mafiascum (don't remember which one it was now).
About loran, I think he's scum. I've provided my reasoning. If you don't like the reasons I've given, then lynch me.
As for the claim, it is what it is.
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
Also, what are the main points against Loran right now. I need to do a reread on him obviously as I've had him in my neutral pile all game. I'll try to work on that tonight.
On Bilbro, some of the stuff he's said raises some red flags but I'd be content putting him on the back boiler for right now. There are others that I'm more suspicious of then him.
As for Cyan, I said things the way I did in order to provoke a response. Unfortunately I'm having a difficult time telling whether that is righteous anger from a town side, or that your just upset for being called out for doing what you did.
I think that covers the major stuff that's happening right now. Also, I thought I was voting Zaj but was apparently not. I still feel like he's been scummy, and as I've said before his claim really seals the deal for me.
Vote: Zajnet
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?u=52729
Simplified version of events as I recall them:
1. TACKY FoSes multiple players.
2. loran votes TACKY.
3. TACKY makes mediocre case against joboman.
4. loran affirms vote.
5. Other stuff happens.
6. loran moves away from TACKY case and votes AI.
7. AI doesn't like loran's progression from 2. to 4. to 6. and votes loran.
I consider 1. and 3. to be weak tells. Does that clarify things?
If I can't get people excited about lynching loran then lynching Zajnet would be fine by me.
Also, note that in case of deadline, the player(/s?) with the most votes will be lynched.
Lastly, have you given any more thought to claiming your color?
You put Zajnet at L-1 while we were still discussing his claim, and now that people are rallying against loran you've happily followed along. This post inspires no confidence, either.
Except you're missing points. AGAIN.
Ced's 299 starts the reasons for voting Tacky, which is more than just about the FOSes, but about how he votes me.
Then after his response, I respond here noting the fact that he just attempted to change his justification for voting me. That's the biggy here...upon being called for his reason, he shifts the reasoning and claims that this new reason was the reason for voting me all along.
I believe i've mentioned this in our conversation at least twice so far before this too....why do you keep ignoring it?
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Ugh, I did miss that.
At any rate, TACKY could have either fabricated his reasons for voting or simply used new reasons to back up his old reasons. The wording isn't clear-cut either way because he specifically mentions both your mass-claim suggestion and your OMGUS/deflection in the post directed at ced, so he apparently believes both to be valid. I don't find it significant that he states that one is his primary reason and then later says that the other is so long as he truly believes what he's saying.
It might.
My point is that his changing which is the primary shows that he doesn't believe in what he's saying...he was more interested in justifying himself in the face of questioning, and thus the switch, as opposed to actually trying to scum hunt using valid tells.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
It's a tell all right, but I think it's a weak one. Town sometimes reorder the scumminess of points against their opponents, and I'm not convinced either way. I never liked the attack against TACKY but I can see how it may come from a mindset that isn't scummy.
My other points, especially regarding how you are leaving TACKY alone now to go after me despite your prior conviction regarding TACKY's guilt, stand.
Sorry.
Tomorrow I will be at home and will reread everything.
AI seems town to me.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
The point isn't that he wasn't saying that oh this is more scummy now. It's that he was claiming that first X was his main reason for voting me originally, and then later he CLAIMED that Y was his original reason.
He's not saying one tell is now what he finds the strongest, he was saying that back then, a certain tell was why i voted you primarily, when it clearly wasn't the case. It's retroactive history.
I'll make a mini case on you shortly.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I'm not sure about ridiculous, but my flavour is extremely silly. It does make sense for my role, though.
I'm not sold on Zajnet, but I do have strong reservations about him. I know I've said this before, but I will try to finish off my reread today.
Also, @mod: if you want the deadline to inspire posting, I would recommend moving it up to two weeks from now instead of three. Still plenty of time for people to post, while not being so far away that we say "Oh, I'll have time to get to that later."
It's true that a fast wagon isn't necessarily a bad wagon, but I don't feel like Zaj's actions were quite scummy enough that it should have been quite that fast. Obviously, if someone claims scum or something they're going to get quick-lynched, but if a bunch of people vote someone for a very minor tell, then I'm going to be suspicious. What Zaj did was somewhere in between. Even without knowing Zaj's alignment, I still feel like his wagon is worth looking at today.
Er...What bad action am I doing? If you're saying that I'm trying to set up second target, then I don't see how that makes sense -- if you flip town it wouldn't change anything really, nor would Cyan flipping town (though if I'm wrong and you flip scum then I'd probably back off of Cyan). My agreement with AI was a kind of joke; I think that you are town and Cyan is my best bet for scum. I guess I should have put a or something in there to make that clearer.
Though, I don't think the point is a very good one against AI either. I have to leave very soon and it would take me longer to articulate than I have time right now, so I'm going to leave that for Monday, I guess.
~~~~~
Goocount
Zajnet (7) - vezokpiraka, TACKY, Archmage Eternal, Flew, Syrenz, StormBlind, falkonn
loran16 (5) - Axelrod, Zajnet, Bilbroxain, Cyan, AsianInvasion
AsianInvasion (3) - loran16, kpaca, Talore
Cyan (2) - zindabad, Dancing Mad
Bilbroxain (1) - RobRoy
With 21 Goo alive, it’s 11 Goo to Lynch.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Now that I read it for the third (fourth?) time I can see what you mean; I am slowly coming around to your point of view. I would like TACKY to respond to your accusations.
This.
Also:
I guess I could see a "vanilla" pun being part of Zajnet's flavor (a pun itself). The "this flavor sounds angry/vengeful" line of thinking is silly because the flavor is centered around the fact that he's supposed to be vanilla, which is why his role licked itself to begin with. If you think the flavor is true then the claim must be true because they are completely intertwined. If the flavor is fabricated then the claim likely is as well. If the scum have daytalk, I wouldn't be surprised if a cunning scumbuddy helped him come up with that. Ultimately his claim and accompanying flavor is a null tell or very weak town tell.
I look forward to it.
I hope it does increase activity because otherwise it's just unfair to active posters like myself.
Worst comes to worst, at least someone will die today so we won't waste the day with a No Lynch.
I'll add to this by stating that in Indiana Jones it was painfully obvious that Cyan did not care about the game as scum.
Skim through Heroes Mafia. I'm not going to say anything further about the game because it's ongoing, but just read Cyan's posts there (and note the simple fact that he was actually posting there but vanished from this thread).
Points of Order:
1. Should we give Archmage Eternal two or three investigation targets to choose from or let him make up his own mind?
2. Should we arrange for vezokpiraka to be targeted? By one or two others?
3. Axelrod, are you going to claim your color? (I'm going to keep asking this because I think it's very important.)
1. I think 2 so there's a better chance of getting all scum. I'd say probably loran and Cyan, depending on if me or loran gets lynched today.
2. I would say arrange to have 1 person target him.
3. IDK, IDC
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
I'm untargetable. I am currently +2 to lynch. I can make myself -2 to lynch and make someone else -2 to lynch at the same time(I can only target a person once with this ability, which is called the Weakness Hidden Trigger). If someone tries to NK me, it will fail and I will lose -3 to lynch. If someone tries to target me with a non-killing action, it will fail and I will lose -1 to lynch. If my lynch threshold ever just reaches zero during the day, I will die and the day will continue.
I thought about giving the Weakness Hidden Trigger to AE earlier, when he was L-2, but decided that I would just try to get him lynched the normal way, without having to weaken myself.
I should have made more of a case on Loran by now, which I suppose I will do. For whatever reason, I've had a harder time being active in this game than in other games I am currently in.