Its weird, you sounded like you knew exactly how I functioned as scum but no idea that I haven't been scum much. Almost like you just threw it out there hoping it would catch on.
I know exactly how you functioned in the games that I mentioned, which are the ones I am drawing on for your scum meta, but I was not aware that those are your only scum games.
I agree with the second half of that but I still don't understand where you're throwing the idea of an extra life from.
the extra life is just something I threw out there to emphasize the fact that we don't know what the power boost is. The example isn't important, the fact that we don't know what it actually is is.
hm. Did SB say anyone that's gold will get benefits, or only people that he targets?
Ugh, today's not a possibility, but I urge the town to take a look at D1 of heroes mafia where he does a lot of the same things here.
-Miscredits the suspicion on him because his opponents "always try to lynch him" etc. Read his interactions with Cyouni in heroes.
-Barns a player's case (Mine in heroes, Cyan's here) with little to no reasoning. My case was on Hunted Charlie.
-Flip-flops on the "prime suspect" he earlier barned with. He flipped on AE in this game, fliped on HC in heroes.
Oddly enough, his play in that game was compared to his play in another game, asphodel meadows I believe. I think it was Skander who pointed that out, look for it later in the day. It's a short read, maybe 10 pages in 40 ppg.
Response to the response tomorrow then. Gah.
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Ugh, today's not a possibility, but I urge the town to take a look at D1 of heroes mafia where he does a lot of the same things here.
-Miscredits the suspicion on him because his opponents "always try to lynch him" etc. Read his interactions with Cyouni in heroes.
-Barns a player's case (Mine in heroes, Cyan's here) with little to no reasoning. My case was on Hunted Charlie.
-Flip-flops on the "prime suspect" he earlier barned with. He flipped on AE in this game, fliped on HC in heroes.
Oddly enough, his play in that game was compared to his play in another game, asphodel meadows I believe. I think it was Skander who pointed that out, look for it later in the day. It's a short read, maybe 10 pages in 40 ppg.
Not sure what to make of AE being golded. I think it makes me feel a little better about him, but for reasons that are completely WIFOM.
posting from a DSi wasn't as bad as I would have thought.
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Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Picross 3D
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
Not only the fact that he's been golded, but also how he reacted to that.
Point.
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Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Picross 3D
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
I'm also not mentally checked into this game very much (yet).
So, Stormblind, in addition to being able to turn someone Gold, you have a separate "Gold-O-Meter" that keeps you updated on the number of Gold players in the game? And this Updater triggered during this game day?
AE: you just got a message saying "now you are Gold" and nothing else?
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
That's not the point. The point is, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE POWER BOOST IS. It COULD be an extra life. It COULD be a shot of motivator. It COULD be ANYTHING. And if it could be anything, I don't trust putting it into the scummiest player around.
I have no belief in the 1-shot cop claim. Also, I don't like the fact that he wants a power boost. We don't know what it is. What if it's an extra life? that would put us back 2 days, and that's the kind of thing we don't want in any game.
This reads not as "I don't want him to be powered up" but rather as "I don't want him to possibly get an extra life." That's fearmongering. And the phrasing of it - the repeated use of we instead of I, and the generic phrasing of "thing we don't want in any game" - both stand out to me.
Will it affect what's going on in that game? No, because you're dead. Now stop pussyfooting and respond, because his case on you intrigues me.
No, I'm definitely not willing to go against forum rules and discuss games in progress.
Agreed with this. Bilbroxain, there are forum rules that say that ongoing games should not be discussed, even if the people involved are dead. That means that you should not be talking about them, and it also means that joboman can't defend himself properly against accusations involving them without breaking the rules himself. If you have a point to make, make it without using ongoing games as a reference.
So if AE turned gold, and SB has been telling us all game that turning gold would give his targets benefits, what benefits did AE gain?
What's that? SB was making it up from the start, just as I said, and should be vigged immediately? Couldn't agree more, internal monologue.
I've seen about a billion references to people who are dead in ongoing games, by the way, so it'd be great if a mod could clarify that point because loads of people do it.
I've seen about a billion references to people who are dead in ongoing games, by the way, so it'd be great if a mod could clarify that point because loads of people do it.
How about the Mafia Hosting Signups + Player Rules thread?
-Current Game Discussion-
A player in an ongoing game may not discuss that game with any other player in that game, or in public forums. Also, it is a good idea to ask permission before discussing the game with anyone outside the game, because they can no longer replace into the game once any meaningful discussion takes place.
I think regulations regarding that rule have finally laxed to an appropriate point. Using a game where a person is dead and revealed scum(or town, I suppose) as a metagame analysis is fine. They're dead, talking about their behavior while they were alive doesn't have any dangers.
I disagree. You can't talk about them bussing their scum buddies, and really can't get to in depth with their thought process out of fear of confirming someone as town or scum in that game.
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Additionally, there are occasional roles like Silent Prophet's in Doomsday Mafia that show incorrectly on death, or like Jobie's in Asphodel Meadows that can make another player show incorrectly. Until the game is over, any discussion that involves a role like that will either be misleading or will reveal more information about that game than should have been said.
-Miscredits the suspicion on him because his opponents "always try to lynch him" etc. Read his interactions with Cyouni in heroes.
This is a good point. Every time I've seen joboman say something like that he's been scum. (not talking about Heroes he's still done that in Anita Blake and Asphodel Meadows)
I disagree with your idea because I regard it as a scumtell. I've argued several times with loran about how a massclaim in this situation would be advantagous for the scum, therefore scum are more likely to want it. And it's more of a scumtell because you could have seen how many people had already expressed their dislike before you came pushing the idea again.
More experienced players will support me when I say that the cult are scum and thus anti-town (or is it the other way around lol). The town does not win unless the cult are all dead. Tunnelvisioned townie is tunnelvisioned.
Ok, well cult-hunt if you must, but it's not scumhunting, that's all I'm trying to say. Besides, the possible cults we may have claimed D1 and talk about possible town advantages. Before we go all rampant with wasting lynches on them, lets give them a chance to prove themselves here.
The whole idea of the cult seems like fearmongering, and like I said, a good distraction for scum to create.
Not only did I answer this above about the massclaim, but what I'm showing is a history of flawed logic in this game. Now, I'll admit that flawed logic can be both a town accident and a scum tool. To determine which it is, simply look at the frequency and the circumstances. I don't believe town would use such flawed logic repeatedly regarding a massclaim. I believe you are scum pushing a terrible idea.
Also, question: What do you think of the massclaim idea now?
You support Cyan by saying that whoever FoSed him did it without pro-town thinking. You say this mostly because it happened in response to Cyan providing the suspicions of said person, but the way you phrased it makes it seem like you have Cyan as solid town here.
Look at my past games, like in duel monsters, where I will go out of the way to call myself town as town (and maybe scum too idk). Nulltell.
Well it certinely doesn't buy you any townie points. You aren't a newb and it's a solid newb move to call yourself town. So it makes me think you are scum. Nulltell maybe, but nulltell leaning scummy.
I saw his responses as scummy, and I didn't like his flip-flopping on if the neutrals should die or not.
You said the responses part already. What I wanted to know was why. And you didn't say anything about the neutral flipflopping in your entrance onto the wagon. You posted a one liner about his responses with the vote. Hell, there were more characters in the vote than there were in your reasoning.
AE was not running around like a chicken with his head cut off screaming LYNCH THE NEUTRALS GAH!!! That would be ASAP, urgent, whatever you want to call it. Your phrasing made AE seem worse than he was. All he did was express his concern and favor their vigging. I think you turned a molehill into a mountain.
This is fearmongering. I dunno what the game has in store but I still think the massclaim is a good idea. Wrong =/= bad.
Ugh, Wrong = bad in the right circumstances, such as these.
Anyway, how is that fearmongering? It's a reasonable explaination as to why the massclaim is less than favorable, and why you are more scummy for it. Or are you saying that I'm fearmongering against you? Cause that's ridiculous.
I'm just saying that from your entrance into the AE wagon and beyond, you had maybe two lines of reasoning for being on it and little else. Eventually you just resorted to outright calling AE scum every chance you could, mostly just to reinforce the idea to the town I suppose.
I'm just saying that the entire time you were on the AE wagon, you were just hardcore barning Cyan and had little analysis, if any.
Remember Duel monsters? Tacky was suspicious of me.
Remember Family mafia? Tacky was suspicious of me.
Tacky is suspicious of me in every game we're in together.
That's just what I'm talking about in that Heroes-referencing post.
Sorry that I'm always suspicious of you, but you always act scummy. And now I've been in enough games with you to be able to tell when you are actually scum and not just seemingly so. You are displaying your scum-meta all over the place here, including this point you make.
Also, this isn't a legit defense at all. It's totally non-sequitar, this point he makes. I'm not suspicious of him because he's joboman, which is the logical connection he's trying to make. I'm suspicious of him because he's acting suspicious.
I made that point because the most reasoning you had on the AE case was a barn. I'm basically saying that your involvement in the AE case was terribad.
Also, it's important to note that you tie yourself to Cyan as town because of your very quick flip on that logic and your vote on him, straigt out of the blue.
I think AE is most likely scum, so defending AE is scummy in my opinion because I'm assuming that I'm correct.
What you think he is may not be what he actually is. So, until you know AE's alignment, a player defending him is nothing but what it is: a defense. Now, if we were to lynch AE and find that he is scum/town, then a logical connection could be made, and we would be able to make a more educated guess about the defender.
However, since AE's alignment remains a mystery, calling anyone scummy for defending him is scummy in and of itself. You were reaching on that one.
All the arguments against AE have already been said. Call it mindless bandwaggoning, but I think that the AE case is very solid and If I was in the game before it was made I would have stated it.
WRONG! You were the second person on that AE wagon IIRC. Sure, Cyan may have brought up some solid points, but you entrace to the wagon was that you didn't like his responses. You could have easily, and probably should have elaborated on that subject, why his responses deserved your vote etc. Instead, you just plopped down your vote and proceeded to call him scum at every turn.
You never provided reasoning and you had more than ample opportunities to do so. That response is a load of BS.
I first thought Cyan was acting townie, he has then showed to not be acting townie.
Elaborate much? For someone who spent half his time in the game barning this person, you should have some stellar case lined up as to why you think he's scum and you're not. But just voting him and now saying that he's not acting townie is simplistic, vague and scummy at best. Flipflop central.
I brought that point up because it's the only time, before you unvote of course, that you show doubt in lynching AE. And it was half-assed doubt at best, with you just saying an if statement. Your next post after that shows more strong "AE is scum" thoughts, so your one moment of doubt before your unvote looks incredibly weak. It reinforces the fact that your Unvote was completly random and flipfloppy.
Well, given the analysis of your previous actions, I'm just saying that your are scum. But it's also scummy itself because someone from a town mindset would at least take the investigation into consideration, even if they disagreed with the claim. You don't even mention the investigation, just stick to the "kill kill kill AE!" plan. I have a feeling you would have posted your serious doubt no matter what AE claimed.
Uhh, not in the post I quoted there. In that one, you are still very much advocating an AE lynch, saying that we gain more info from killing him rather than not.
But, to answer your question, it's bad because it was sudden after pages and pages of you railing against AE. You, once again, gave little/no reasoning for the unvote, making this sudden jump off the wagon even more scummy.
You started distancing yourself from Cyan and began to call Cyan and AE scumbuddies. In fact, I think your exact words were "I wouldn't be surprised if Cyan was bussing/scumbuddies with AE" but I'm not sure. That was idea, I'm just not sure of the exact wording.
You're wrong, they come from a very townie mindset. You don't say why this is scummy.
Once again, calling yourself town inspires zero confidance.
Flawed logic is very much a scummy thing, and like I said, the more it happens and in specific circumstances, it's very very scummy. Your FL concerns the death of AE, which makes your FL a dangerous weapon in this scenario. And the fact that you've maintained this FL throughout the game reinforces the idea that you are coming from an anti-town mindset, most likely a scum mindset. Plus I mention the Flipflop and the fencesit, which are scumtells. So, yeah, I do say why this is scummy.
I don't need to respond to the rest because its all the same thing. I'll just say this:
STUPIDITY ISN'T A SCUMTELL
I swear, if anybody didn't read further because joboman said this, I'm gonna be pissed. There is plenty of evidence that joboman straight up ignores here. He further ties AE and Cyan, Jumps to serious conclusions, becomes hypocritical when he vote Cyan for unvoting in much the same fashion he did and he adds a third scum, RobRoy, to his list, among other things. He skips a good chunk of my case, and it's in fact most of the meat of the case.
Also, dismissing his scummyness off as stupidity, no matter how large he does it, is not a defense.
Oh, and labling my attacks on him as an attack against stupidity is even less of a defense, mostly because nothing I attacked that was the "same thing" had to do with his level of intelligence or lack thereof.
Finally, regular stupidity may not be a scumtell, but consistant stupidity may be. I'm not saying that joboman is stupid, but he is using incredibly flawed logic over and over again. That is scummy.
Ugh. There it is. I need to soak my fingers in ice water now, and I desperatly need to use the restroom. So, please read, so my plight doesn't go to waste.
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I'm having a hard time getting into this one as well. Part of it comes from feeling a little lost earlier.
TACKY makes a really good point on the jobo flip flop on Cyan. I agree, jobo didn't make a great case to explain his reasoning for feeling different about Cyan.
Joboman: Care to actually respond to that accusation, or are you just going to keep saying that you always play bad/stupid?
Just an fyi. I'm leaving for origins gaming convention in a couple of days. I'm going to try really hard to post at least once every three days, but if I don't I guarantee that my activity will pick up when I get back.
Joboman is a bad player no matter which game you look at.
But you can differentiate between his town play and his scum play. In this game, I sincerely believe he is town, and this wagon is bad.
I disagree. Why do you think this is his town play?
Does anyone else get scummy vibes from zindabad? I don't recall being in any recent games with him as town, but he was scum in both LotR II and Duel Monsters and I've yet to see any major differences in his play between those games and this one.
I can't really put a finger on it, honestly. But I feel like his play has differences. For one, he is honestly less erratic than in games where I've seen him be scum.
I think he was so eager to vote me because he just thinks I am going to be scum always, and bus always. Obviously these are not the case, and he'll figure it out eventually.
"You shouldn't be upset with me for not talking - I haven't been talking." Excellent.
No, you shouldn't be upset with me not talking because I recently replaced in.
Doesn't quite track. Here's what you said again:
This reads not as "I don't want him to be powered up" but rather as "I don't want him to possibly get an extra life." That's fearmongering. And the phrasing of it - the repeated use of we instead of I, and the generic phrasing of "thing we don't want in any game" - both stand out to me.
that argument is crap and you know it. I don't want anything that can be called helping going into the hands of scum. Is that not a rational fear? You would use a doc protect on someone you are fairly sure is scum would you? It's the same thing here.
Agreed with this. Bilbroxain, there are forum rules that say that ongoing games should not be discussed, even if the people involved are dead. That means that you should not be talking about them, and it also means that joboman can't defend himself properly against accusations involving them without breaking the rules himself. If you have a point to make, make it without using ongoing games as a reference.
If there's no way around the rules, then fine. I have just one thing to say about Joboman myself. There was a post he made earlier that said "You always lock onto me like this and I think that's scummy" I can't remember who he was talking to at that point, but I do remember this: The only other time I have read that from him was in Anita Blake, and he was scum there. No just any kind of scum, but flaringly obvious scum.
Now, I'm going to be V/LA until sunday, so I'm unvoting and will come back and probably make a case on either AE or Joboman. Yay college orientation!
30 days? It's a long deadline. Am I the only one who hopes that the lynch will happen before? (I'm tired of this unfinishing day 1.)
For me it is between Joboman and Cyan.
30 days? It's a long deadline. Am I the only one who hopes that the lynch will happen before? (I'm tired of this unfinishing day 1.)
For me it is between Joboman and Cyan.
Why? Seriously people.
Cyan is behaving like textbook cyan...being overzealous and maybe a bit more jumpy than usual, but It's not out of the realm of his normal scum play.
Joboman is behaving stupidly maybe...but STUPIDITY IS NOT A SCUM TELL. Tacky's case on Jobo seems no different than his case on me, and THAT was clearly bunk. So why are you all convinced by this one?
(Also, i like my vote on Tacky)
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Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Cyan is behaving like textbook cyan...being overzealous and maybe a bit more jumpy than usual, but It's not out of the realm of his normal scum play.
Joboman is behaving stupidly maybe...but STUPIDITY IS NOT A SCUM TELL. Tacky's case on Jobo seems no different than his case on me, and THAT was clearly bunk. So why are you all convinced by this one?
/barn
I really can't see joboman as scum this game. I really really can't see Cyan as scum in this game.
TACKY, I'm not so sure about. I need to reread him.
Why did the AE wagon fall apart? His claim makes no sense, and he probably has a 1-shot scum ability if he has any ability. Why aren't we lynching him?
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EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
I really can't see joboman as scum this game. I really really can't see Cyan as scum in this game.
TACKY, I'm not so sure about. I need to reread him.
Why did the AE wagon fall apart? His claim makes no sense, and he probably has a 1-shot scum ability if he has any ability. Why aren't we lynching him?
I really can't see joboman as scum this game. I really really can't see Cyan as scum in this game.
TACKY, I'm not so sure about. I need to reread him.
Why did the AE wagon fall apart? His claim makes no sense, and he probably has a 1-shot scum ability if he has any ability. Why aren't we lynching him?
Because if he does have a cop ability... it would be bad to lynch today. Plus what I said earlier about the color-changing.
Because if he does have a cop ability... it would be bad to lynch today. Plus what I said earlier about the color-changing.
I don't really get how the color changing is a point for or against him? Someone can change someone's color, and changed his. How does that affect his scumminess?
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EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
I really can't see joboman as scum this game. I really really can't see Cyan as scum in this game.
TACKY, I'm not so sure about. I need to reread him.
Why did the AE wagon fall apart? His claim makes no sense, and he probably has a 1-shot scum ability if he has any ability. Why aren't we lynching him?
I feel like this post is just trying to take advantage of a lull to bring up a subject that has largely been moved on from.
I don't really get how the color changing is a point for or against him? Someone can change someone's color, and changed his. How does that affect his scumminess?
My rationale on A_E turning gold: I think that it really helps A_E's case. Right now, I'd guess that a scum had the ability to morph someone's color to their own desires, and that they would do that to A_E to entice us into killing him, to see what being gold is all about (if it is a cult variant, however unlikely.) Which would imply that the scum want to drive home a mislynch.
I agree with Talore here. I'm thinking this sudden golding is a scum ability (could still be a scum gambit where AE is scum as well). It is wifom, and it doesn't clear AE by any stretch of imagination, but it makes me feel just a little bit better about AE.
Also, for those that speculate that scum-AE has a one-shot ability, do we have any reason to believe so at all? Yes, I know that he claimed a one-shot, but I don't see why that would make it likely for him to have a one-shot if false claiming.
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Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Picross 3D
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
I agree with Talore here. I'm thinking this sudden golding is a scum ability (could still be a scum gambit where AE is scum as well). It is wifom, and it doesn't clear AE by any stretch of imagination, but it makes me feel just a little bit better about AE.
Also, for those that speculate that scum-AE has a one-shot ability, do we have any reason to believe so at all? Yes, I know that he claimed a one-shot, but I don't see why that would make it likely for him to have a one-shot if false claiming.
Point taken on the goldification.
As to the one-shot claim, I've seen scum with a one-shot ability claim town with a one-shot ability and try to use it to get left alive for that night.
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EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
I know exactly how you functioned in the games that I mentioned, which are the ones I am drawing on for your scum meta, but I was not aware that those are your only scum games.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
the extra life is just something I threw out there to emphasize the fact that we don't know what the power boost is. The example isn't important, the fact that we don't know what it actually is is.
I'm fairly certain he said anyone he targetted.
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
However you can expect to see that Joboman is displaying some of his own scumtells. Like I said, more later.
Tacky, yet again, is obv town being tunnelvisioned.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
unvote: vote joboman
-Miscredits the suspicion on him because his opponents "always try to lynch him" etc. Read his interactions with Cyouni in heroes.
-Barns a player's case (Mine in heroes, Cyan's here) with little to no reasoning. My case was on Hunted Charlie.
-Flip-flops on the "prime suspect" he earlier barned with. He flipped on AE in this game, fliped on HC in heroes.
Oddly enough, his play in that game was compared to his play in another game, asphodel meadows I believe. I think it was Skander who pointed that out, look for it later in the day. It's a short read, maybe 10 pages in 40 ppg.
Response to the response tomorrow then. Gah.
How about you stop discussing games in progress.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
What activity?
Will it affect what's going on in that game? No, because you're dead. Now stop pussyfooting and respond, because his case on you intrigues me.
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
Not sure what to make of AE being golded. I think it makes me feel a little better about him, but for reasons that are completely WIFOM.
posting from a DSi wasn't as bad as I would have thought.
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Vote joboman
Well you're not playing like you did in #19. You just started voting and barning. No cases no nothing. He was town that game.
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[The Family] pressed the "lynch" button, thinking it was labeled "lunch" .
No, I'm definitely not willing to go against forum rules and discuss games in progress.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Point.
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
So, Stormblind, in addition to being able to turn someone Gold, you have a separate "Gold-O-Meter" that keeps you updated on the number of Gold players in the game? And this Updater triggered during this game day?
AE: you just got a message saying "now you are Gold" and nothing else?
"You shouldn't be upset with me for not talking - I haven't been talking." Excellent.
Doesn't quite track. Here's what you said again:
This reads not as "I don't want him to be powered up" but rather as "I don't want him to possibly get an extra life." That's fearmongering. And the phrasing of it - the repeated use of we instead of I, and the generic phrasing of "thing we don't want in any game" - both stand out to me.
Agreed with this. Bilbroxain, there are forum rules that say that ongoing games should not be discussed, even if the people involved are dead. That means that you should not be talking about them, and it also means that joboman can't defend himself properly against accusations involving them without breaking the rules himself. If you have a point to make, make it without using ongoing games as a reference.
What's that? SB was making it up from the start, just as I said, and should be vigged immediately? Couldn't agree more, internal monologue.
I've seen about a billion references to people who are dead in ongoing games, by the way, so it'd be great if a mod could clarify that point because loads of people do it.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
I'm not sure that necessarily follows. If SB didn't turn AE gold, he also didn't confer any advantages.
How about the Mafia Hosting Signups + Player Rules thread?
I don't even think that PM quoting should be illegal, so..yeah.
Back on topic. Absolutely nothing is happening, guess I'll re-read.
This is a good point. Every time I've seen joboman say something like that he's been scum. (not talking about Heroes he's still done that in Anita Blake and Asphodel Meadows)
However, this is also true. joboman seems pretty different from his normal scum games. Need to do some rereading on him.
Still waiting for a list of those games.
Agree with this.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
I disagree with your idea because I regard it as a scumtell. I've argued several times with loran about how a massclaim in this situation would be advantagous for the scum, therefore scum are more likely to want it. And it's more of a scumtell because you could have seen how many people had already expressed their dislike before you came pushing the idea again.
Ok, well cult-hunt if you must, but it's not scumhunting, that's all I'm trying to say. Besides, the possible cults we may have claimed D1 and talk about possible town advantages. Before we go all rampant with wasting lynches on them, lets give them a chance to prove themselves here.
The whole idea of the cult seems like fearmongering, and like I said, a good distraction for scum to create.
Not only did I answer this above about the massclaim, but what I'm showing is a history of flawed logic in this game. Now, I'll admit that flawed logic can be both a town accident and a scum tool. To determine which it is, simply look at the frequency and the circumstances. I don't believe town would use such flawed logic repeatedly regarding a massclaim. I believe you are scum pushing a terrible idea.
Also, question: What do you think of the massclaim idea now?
You support Cyan by saying that whoever FoSed him did it without pro-town thinking. You say this mostly because it happened in response to Cyan providing the suspicions of said person, but the way you phrased it makes it seem like you have Cyan as solid town here.
Well, I'm confused on the issue, but I'll agree to disagree.
Well it certinely doesn't buy you any townie points. You aren't a newb and it's a solid newb move to call yourself town. So it makes me think you are scum. Nulltell maybe, but nulltell leaning scummy.
It seems threatening to me.
You said the responses part already. What I wanted to know was why. And you didn't say anything about the neutral flipflopping in your entrance onto the wagon. You posted a one liner about his responses with the vote. Hell, there were more characters in the vote than there were in your reasoning.
AE was not running around like a chicken with his head cut off screaming LYNCH THE NEUTRALS GAH!!! That would be ASAP, urgent, whatever you want to call it. Your phrasing made AE seem worse than he was. All he did was express his concern and favor their vigging. I think you turned a molehill into a mountain.
Ugh, Wrong = bad in the right circumstances, such as these.
Anyway, how is that fearmongering? It's a reasonable explaination as to why the massclaim is less than favorable, and why you are more scummy for it. Or are you saying that I'm fearmongering against you? Cause that's ridiculous.
I'm just saying that from your entrance into the AE wagon and beyond, you had maybe two lines of reasoning for being on it and little else. Eventually you just resorted to outright calling AE scum every chance you could, mostly just to reinforce the idea to the town I suppose.
I'm just saying that the entire time you were on the AE wagon, you were just hardcore barning Cyan and had little analysis, if any.
That's just what I'm talking about in that Heroes-referencing post.
Sorry that I'm always suspicious of you, but you always act scummy. And now I've been in enough games with you to be able to tell when you are actually scum and not just seemingly so. You are displaying your scum-meta all over the place here, including this point you make.
Also, this isn't a legit defense at all. It's totally non-sequitar, this point he makes. I'm not suspicious of him because he's joboman, which is the logical connection he's trying to make. I'm suspicious of him because he's acting suspicious.
I made that point because the most reasoning you had on the AE case was a barn. I'm basically saying that your involvement in the AE case was terribad.
Also, it's important to note that you tie yourself to Cyan as town because of your very quick flip on that logic and your vote on him, straigt out of the blue.
What you think he is may not be what he actually is. So, until you know AE's alignment, a player defending him is nothing but what it is: a defense. Now, if we were to lynch AE and find that he is scum/town, then a logical connection could be made, and we would be able to make a more educated guess about the defender.
However, since AE's alignment remains a mystery, calling anyone scummy for defending him is scummy in and of itself. You were reaching on that one.
WRONG! You were the second person on that AE wagon IIRC. Sure, Cyan may have brought up some solid points, but you entrace to the wagon was that you didn't like his responses. You could have easily, and probably should have elaborated on that subject, why his responses deserved your vote etc. Instead, you just plopped down your vote and proceeded to call him scum at every turn.
You never provided reasoning and you had more than ample opportunities to do so. That response is a load of BS.
Your scumtell.
Elaborate much? For someone who spent half his time in the game barning this person, you should have some stellar case lined up as to why you think he's scum and you're not. But just voting him and now saying that he's not acting townie is simplistic, vague and scummy at best. Flipflop central.
Which is why mudflinging onto him makes you look worse.
No, but way to try and minimize my arguments.
I brought that point up because it's the only time, before you unvote of course, that you show doubt in lynching AE. And it was half-assed doubt at best, with you just saying an if statement. Your next post after that shows more strong "AE is scum" thoughts, so your one moment of doubt before your unvote looks incredibly weak. It reinforces the fact that your Unvote was completly random and flipfloppy.
Well, given the analysis of your previous actions, I'm just saying that your are scum. But it's also scummy itself because someone from a town mindset would at least take the investigation into consideration, even if they disagreed with the claim. You don't even mention the investigation, just stick to the "kill kill kill AE!" plan. I have a feeling you would have posted your serious doubt no matter what AE claimed.
Uhh, not in the post I quoted there. In that one, you are still very much advocating an AE lynch, saying that we gain more info from killing him rather than not.
But, to answer your question, it's bad because it was sudden after pages and pages of you railing against AE. You, once again, gave little/no reasoning for the unvote, making this sudden jump off the wagon even more scummy.
How? Seriously, read your own post and tell me it's anything other than what I described.
You started distancing yourself from Cyan and began to call Cyan and AE scumbuddies. In fact, I think your exact words were "I wouldn't be surprised if Cyan was bussing/scumbuddies with AE" but I'm not sure. That was idea, I'm just not sure of the exact wording.
Once again, calling yourself town inspires zero confidance.
Flawed logic is very much a scummy thing, and like I said, the more it happens and in specific circumstances, it's very very scummy. Your FL concerns the death of AE, which makes your FL a dangerous weapon in this scenario. And the fact that you've maintained this FL throughout the game reinforces the idea that you are coming from an anti-town mindset, most likely a scum mindset. Plus I mention the Flipflop and the fencesit, which are scumtells. So, yeah, I do say why this is scummy.
I swear, if anybody didn't read further because joboman said this, I'm gonna be pissed. There is plenty of evidence that joboman straight up ignores here. He further ties AE and Cyan, Jumps to serious conclusions, becomes hypocritical when he vote Cyan for unvoting in much the same fashion he did and he adds a third scum, RobRoy, to his list, among other things. He skips a good chunk of my case, and it's in fact most of the meat of the case.
Also, dismissing his scummyness off as stupidity, no matter how large he does it, is not a defense.
Oh, and labling my attacks on him as an attack against stupidity is even less of a defense, mostly because nothing I attacked that was the "same thing" had to do with his level of intelligence or lack thereof.
Finally, regular stupidity may not be a scumtell, but consistant stupidity may be. I'm not saying that joboman is stupid, but he is using incredibly flawed logic over and over again. That is scummy.
Ugh. There it is. I need to soak my fingers in ice water now, and I desperatly need to use the restroom. So, please read, so my plight doesn't go to waste.
joboman (6) - Archmage Eternal, Asian Invasion, TACKY, Zchinque, kpaca, vezokpiraka
Archmage Eternal (4) - Syrenz, StormBlind, Zajnet, Bilbroxain
Cyan (3) - zindabad, Dancing Mad, joboman
loran16 (1) - Axelrod
TACKY (1) - loran16
Bilbroxain (1) - RobRoy
With 21 Goo alive, it’s 11 Goo to Lynch.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
But you can differentiate between his town play and his scum play. In this game, I sincerely believe he is town, and this wagon is bad.
TACKY makes a really good point on the jobo flip flop on Cyan. I agree, jobo didn't make a great case to explain his reasoning for feeling different about Cyan.
Joboman: Care to actually respond to that accusation, or are you just going to keep saying that you always play bad/stupid?
Just an fyi. I'm leaving for origins gaming convention in a couple of days. I'm going to try really hard to post at least once every three days, but if I don't I guarantee that my activity will pick up when I get back.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?u=52729
I disagree. Why do you think this is his town play?
Does anyone else get scummy vibes from zindabad? I don't recall being in any recent games with him as town, but he was scum in both LotR II and Duel Monsters and I've yet to see any major differences in his play between those games and this one.
I think he was so eager to vote me because he just thinks I am going to be scum always, and bus always. Obviously these are not the case, and he'll figure it out eventually.
No, you shouldn't be upset with me not talking because I recently replaced in.
that argument is crap and you know it. I don't want anything that can be called helping going into the hands of scum. Is that not a rational fear? You would use a doc protect on someone you are fairly sure is scum would you? It's the same thing here.
If there's no way around the rules, then fine. I have just one thing to say about Joboman myself. There was a post he made earlier that said "You always lock onto me like this and I think that's scummy" I can't remember who he was talking to at that point, but I do remember this: The only other time I have read that from him was in Anita Blake, and he was scum there. No just any kind of scum, but flaringly obvious scum.
Now, I'm going to be V/LA until sunday, so I'm unvoting and will come back and probably make a case on either AE or Joboman. Yay college orientation!
Unvote
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
Prods will be handed out together with the next Goocount.
~~~~~
Goocount
joboman (6) - Archmage Eternal, Asian Invasion, TACKY, Zchinque, kpaca, vezokpiraka
Archmage Eternal (3) - Syrenz, StormBlind, Zajnet
Cyan (3) - zindabad, Dancing Mad, joboman
loran16 (1) - Axelrod
TACKY (1) - loran16
Bilbroxain (1) - RobRoy
With 21 Goo alive, it’s 11 Goo to Lynch.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
For me it is between Joboman and Cyan.
[The Family] pressed the "lynch" button, thinking it was labeled "lunch" .
Why? Seriously people.
Cyan is behaving like textbook cyan...being overzealous and maybe a bit more jumpy than usual, but It's not out of the realm of his normal scum play.
Joboman is behaving stupidly maybe...but STUPIDITY IS NOT A SCUM TELL. Tacky's case on Jobo seems no different than his case on me, and THAT was clearly bunk. So why are you all convinced by this one?
(Also, i like my vote on Tacky)
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
/barn
I really can't see joboman as scum this game. I really really can't see Cyan as scum in this game.
TACKY, I'm not so sure about. I need to reread him.
Why did the AE wagon fall apart? His claim makes no sense, and he probably has a 1-shot scum ability if he has any ability. Why aren't we lynching him?
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
Because they're trying to deflect onto me.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Because if he does have a cop ability... it would be bad to lynch today. Plus what I said earlier about the color-changing.
I don't really get how the color changing is a point for or against him? Someone can change someone's color, and changed his. How does that affect his scumminess?
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
I feel like this post is just trying to take advantage of a lull to bring up a subject that has largely been moved on from.
It doesn't feel like a post a townie would make.
Looks like I have someone to re-read now.
Already posted.
That's all WIFOM. We have no idea that it is scum that changed his color. How do we know its not a town power role?
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
And why would a townie do that?
I agree with Talore here. I'm thinking this sudden golding is a scum ability (could still be a scum gambit where AE is scum as well). It is wifom, and it doesn't clear AE by any stretch of imagination, but it makes me feel just a little bit better about AE.
Also, for those that speculate that scum-AE has a one-shot ability, do we have any reason to believe so at all? Yes, I know that he claimed a one-shot, but I don't see why that would make it likely for him to have a one-shot if false claiming.
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
Point taken on the goldification.
As to the one-shot claim, I've seen scum with a one-shot ability claim town with a one-shot ability and try to use it to get left alive for that night.
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page