Wait didn't you just make a big post outlining how it would make more sense to just lynch AE tomorrow?
Not... really.
I still think AE is probable scum. That post is essentially a discussion between myself and the voice in my head going "what if he's town? what if he's town?".
I'm still leaning towards an AE lynch, hence my vote still on him, but I think we need more discussion on the subject. As I said, I'm in a bit of two minds. It's not clear cut which decision is the correct one.
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Not... really.
I still think AE is probable scum. That post is essentially a discussion between myself and the voice in my head going "what if he's town? what if he's town?".
I'm still leaning towards an AE lynch, hence my vote still on him, but I think we need more discussion on the subject. As I said, I'm in a bit of two minds. It's not clear cut which decision is the correct one.
Let me ask you this. Considering you just outlined the plusses to keeping AE until tomorrow, what are the benefits to lynching him today?
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Let me ask you this. Considering you just outlined the plusses to keeping AE until tomorrow, what are the benefits to lynching him today?
If he is scum he doesn't get to use whatever ability he might have.
We avoid having more people claim, leaving the scum with less information when they decide their night actions.
If he is town we avoid the scenario where he comes out roleblocked tomorrow. Under that scenario we'd still lynch him, but have nothing to show for it. (Although it does tie up the roleblocker for a night, which is a minor plus)
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I despise the 'what if he is town' argument. Is it possible that he is town? Sure. But it's unlikely.
If he's town, we get a clear townie(or, unlikely as it may be, a caught scum). Yes, this is valuable.
The problem is, what if he is NOT town? Because his behavior is not town, and his claim really doesn't seem likely to be real. Let's say he comes along tomorrow and reveals a scum result. That person claims, their claim isn't something fantastic that gets them out of suspicion, and we lynch them..oh but they were town afterall. Or, he is scum and says someone is town. We lynch him, and are stuck wondering indefinitely about the other person(a scum with a 1-shot investigation is not necessarily just going to clear a townie like a scum trying to falseclaim permanent Cop would). Plus, if he's lying, as Zchnique said, he will get to use whatever his real ability is tonight.
Behaviorally, AE has been scummy on an independent basis. He has also played similarly to games where he was scum, and not similarly to games where he was town. His claim is seriously one of the most easily faked claims imaginable(and 1-shot cop is so unlikely to be useful that I really doubt it is a real role). The drawbacks of leaving him alive far, far outweigh the benefits.
The problem is, what if he is NOT town? Because his behavior is not town.
What of my behavior is not town?
Behaviorally, AE has been scummy on an independent basis. He has also played similarly to games where he was scum, and not similarly to games where he was town.
Like with Jobo(which he never did) I ask you to show proof. Zindabad loves to throw that meta out there. Kithkin I was nailed for fencesitting on a softclaim and had no idea what to do. How is this similar? You throw that meta out there knowing(hoping) people will just go along and believe you. If Zindabad is truely town he would not have brought that forward to use toward a lynch because he knows its not true. Manga I was not scum but an SK that needed all to die(which pissed him off 'cause I'm the reason he got nailed to the wall). 26 I was nailed for being non-commital and trying to subtly push the town in a different direction. So Cyan I would love to see how those plays are similar to this game?
It's not about your initial behavior in this games, it's about how you reacted when people got suspicious of you. When you are town and draw suspicion(which admittedly happens on a frequent basis), you tend to panic. When you are scum and draw suspicion, you get hostile. It is pretty obvious which of these is the case in this game.
It's not about your initial behavior in this games, it's about how you reacted when people got suspicious of you. When you are town and draw suspicion(which admittedly happens on a frequent basis), you tend to panic. When you are scum and draw suspicion, you get hostile. It is pretty obvious which of these is the case in this game.
Thats just it, it is about the initial behavior. Voting/unvoting Loran for what I thought he was implying what Jobo is now, regarding a full claim. Nothing hostile about this game but the one quote about being spiteful. No those scum games I was panicky and that killed me, don't twist it.
I disagree, I don't think you were panicky in those games, you were belligerent. I've seen you wagon'ed as town many times, and I don't feel like you're acting the same way. In other circumstances, you at least made an effort to explain yourself, rationally, and in a pro-town manner. Here, you have done nothing of the sort.
Wow. Well, Honestly, the claim does absolutely nothing for me, and is a pretty danged terrible claim. He's either a mislynch now, or a mislynch later.
Regardless, he's a role that, unless a cop wastes a shot on him, will never be confirmed, and will forevermore be a huge suspect in the game.
So the basic options are lynch him now, or lynch him later.
If you lynch him now, I dont see anything HORRIBLY wrong with that (We never know what day 2 will give, so better to deal with him now then later.)
If you lynch him LATER, i would suggest looking into Jobo. His conversations thusfar have *NOT* struck me in a positive way.
Also @Kpaca: LAWL. This is awesome. I've given up arguing with Cyan, best bet is to just ignore him when he's being dumb. Neither me nor you will ever get him lynched. Too many Sheepioso.
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Hey, anyone can get anyone lynched. Jordman got me lynched that one time..of course he had a N0 scum investigation on me, but whatever.
I'm glad that at least one of the claimed neutrals is being logical here.
You know, I have to wonder if SB and Kpaca's abilities pass on to whomever they target. Otherwise, it seems like the ability is just 'I lived a day longer than you, WINNAR ME!'. And that doesn't seem particularly likely.
Archmage Eternal's claim is like the breeze outside my window; it's there but I'm not feeling it.
If Cyan's telling the truth in his recent posts regarding AE's meta, then I agree that his play here is closer to his scum meta. My vote stands for now.
joboman's strange arguments are a null tell at the moment. Funnily enough, the only person who I think is connected to AE is joboman himself based on how they locked their votes on each other. I'm still of the mind that these two are batting for different teams.
You know, I have to wonder if SB and Kpaca's abilities pass on to whomever they target. Otherwise, it seems like the ability is just 'I lived a day longer than you, WINNAR ME!'. And that doesn't seem particularly likely.
Sorry guys, I've been keeping up with the thread but I haven't had time to do a reread like I said I was going to. My sister is moving in with me and my wife for a little while and she got here yesterday. Had work the day before that and I'm about to leave for the Italian festival. I just wanted to check in since it's been a while, I'm hoping to be able to do the reread tomorrow and make a good post then. If I can't do the reread, I'll make sure to post my thoughts on the stuff that's happened since my last post since some stuff has happened since then.
You know, I have to wonder if SB and Kpaca's abilities pass on to whomever they target. Otherwise, it seems like the ability is just 'I lived a day longer than you, WINNAR ME!'. And that doesn't seem particularly likely.
Watch out there. Thats what I brought up for reasons on not trusting them and you guys want my head. Same as this logic.
Originally Posted by Cyan Plus, if he's lying, as Zchnique said, he will get to use whatever his real ability is tonight.
The only point in lynching one of the neutrals. They use their ability tonight and vig'd the next night but there is that one golden/orange goo out there unbeknown to us continuing what they started. Thats all I'm saying for the reason to lynch one now and vig one tonight.
Wow. Firstly Unvote because as much as I don't like him, Loran's not looking as bad comparitively.
AE's claim doesn't do much for proving he's not scum, but lynching a potential cop investigation is something I really don't wanna do. More reread, and a look into his past scum play should do fine. Any good reference games?
Joboman's play here regarding AE seems mostly like he's playing along with the whole situation. FoS Joboman
Doing that reread starting...now.
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Not... really.
I still think AE is probable scum. That post is essentially a discussion between myself and the voice in my head going "what if he's town? what if he's town?".
I'm still leaning towards an AE lynch, hence my vote still on him, but I think we need more discussion on the subject. As I said, I'm in a bit of two minds. It's not clear cut which decision is the correct one.
yeah I agree with this. Don't like the claim but the possibility of gaining an investigation on someone if he's actually town is appealing.
@AE: Can you give me a list of your most recent scum games?
The line that was sarcastic was me making fun of the fact that FoSing me would be suspicious, because the argument had come that FoSes were suspicious, which is ridiculous. I want him to FoS/Vote/come to some decision, so I sarcastically implied that the reason he hadn't FoSed me was to avoid suspicion.
The line you quote here isn't the sarcastic one. Make sense? Lemme know if I should clarify further.
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Ummm why is there a debate about leaving him alive? Possible situations if we leave him alive:
Situation 1, AE is town.
---Gets Roleblocked by scum, leaving the rest of the town unhindered by their actions. We lynch AE tomorrow since his shot is used up, resulting in a mislynch tomorrow instead of today.
Situation 2, AE is town
---Is Not RBed, gets a valid inspection result (potentially a hit on a scum). We lynch him and then have a valid inspection result for the game.
Situation 3, AE is scum
---We lynch him and ignore his result as being totally WIFOM and completely irrelevant. We lynch correctly tomorrow instead of today.
So by leaving him tomorrow we either get the scum to use their RB on a player we otherwise would've killed or we get a valid inspection result if he's town (possible). If he's scum we lose nothing.
WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS?
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Ummm why is there a debate about leaving him alive? Possible situations if we leave him alive:
Situation 1, AE is town.
---Gets Roleblocked by scum, leaving the rest of the town unhindered by their actions. We lynch AE tomorrow since his shot is used up, resulting in a mislynch tomorrow instead of today.
Situation 2, AE is town
---Is Not RBed, gets a valid inspection result (potentially a hit on a scum). We lynch him and then have a valid inspection result for the game.
Situation 3, AE is scum
---We lynch him and ignore his result as being totally WIFOM and completely irrelevant. We lynch correctly tomorrow instead of today.
So by leaving him tomorrow we either get the scum to use their RB on a player we otherwise would've killed or we get a valid inspection result if he's town (possible). If he's scum we lose nothing.
WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS?
Because Cyan is scum.
I'm glad you are here though, because I know that you will do your best to prevent the usual town implosion.
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There is one flaw in all of this; you guys are basing your thought process on the likelihood that AE is town. But really, most likely, he is NOT town.
Ultimately, this is what it boils down to. If he is town, best case scenario, he finds one scum. If he is scum, he either A)falsely incriminates someone tomorrow or B)clears a scumbuddy. Either of these are disastrous, and are far more of a detriment than one scum being caught is a benefit.
There is one flaw in all of this; you guys are basing your thought process on the likelihood that AE is town. But really, most likely, he is NOT town.
Ultimately, this is what it boils down to. If he is town, best case scenario, he finds one scum. If he is scum, he either A)falsely incriminates someone tomorrow or B)clears a scumbuddy. Either of these are disastrous, and are far more of a detriment than one scum being caught is a benefit.
Cyan, how do you know within a reasonable doubt that he isn't town? There's only two possibilities that come to mind:
Here Cyan, here is a wonderful quote from Loran I hope you take the time to read and actually think about. Maybe if we're lucky you will even apply some logic to it.
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If he's scum we lose nothing.
HOORAY LOGIC!
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Not only is that not logical, it is bafflingly incorrect. If he is scum, we lose out no matter what.
Here are some hypothetical situations, where AE is scum.
Situation A) AE comes back tomorrow and reveals a town investigation. So..now what? Do we immediately wagon the person that he claimed the investigation on? If they're town, we just have to hope that their claim gets them out of being lynched, otherwise we're just going to mislynch them, giving the mafia a free pass. If they're scum, most likely they're going to claim Vanilla, or they have a dynamite claim that is going to convince us that they're town.
Situation B) AE comes back tomorrow and reveals a scum investigation. We lynch him, he flips scum. So is he trying to get a mislynch? Or just playing a giant WIFOM game?
Do you guys just not understand how this game works, or what? Stuff like this is why the town loses so often anymore. AE acted *like scum*. That is why he got wagon'ed and brought to the point where he was forced to claim. Sometimes when this happens, a person claims a role that is extremely unlikely to be scum, and they get a pardon. That is *not the case* now. AE acted like scum, and his claim isn't enough to grant him a pass. Lynching him is correct.
@joboman: I didn't even know there was a N0 in this game. So no, I don't have a N0 investigation. And no, we're not scumbuddies. Though that line of thought would still mean that AE is scum, and that lynching him is correct. So feel free to think that, as long as AE gets lynched today.
@Kpaca: If you actually thought I was scum, you wouldn't even bother making posts like the one you just did. Thanks for making it obvious, though, that you're just trying to cause trouble.
Not only is that not logical, it is bafflingly incorrect. If he is scum, we lose out no matter what.
Here are some hypothetical situations, where AE is scum.
Situation A) AE comes back tomorrow and reveals a town investigation. So..now what? Do we immediately wagon the person that he claimed the investigation on? If they're town, we just have to hope that their claim gets them out of being lynched, otherwise we're just going to mislynch them, giving the mafia a free pass. If they're scum, most likely they're going to claim Vanilla, or they have a dynamite claim that is going to convince us that they're town.
Situation B) AE comes back tomorrow and reveals a scum investigation. We lynch him, he flips scum. So is he trying to get a mislynch? Or just playing a giant WIFOM game?
Do you guys just not understand how this game works, or what? Stuff like this is why the town loses so often anymore. AE acted *like scum*. That is why he got wagon'ed and brought to the point where he was forced to claim. Sometimes when this happens, a person claims a role that is extremely unlikely to be scum, and they get a pardon. That is *not the case* now. AE acted like scum, and his claim isn't enough to grant him a pass. Lynching him is correct.
.
NO!. If he comes back with an investigation tomorrow, we IGNORE IT COMPLETELY if he turns out scum. The suggestion to to lynch him 100% of the time tomorrow. If he's scum, WE IGNORE IT COMPLETELY because if's wifom. It's not a tell in any way. And thus it's harmless.
If he's town on the other hand, it's a positive.
Ergo Potential Positive > No Negative.
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Not only is that not logical, it is bafflingly incorrect. If he is scum, we lose out no matter what.
Here are some hypothetical situations, where AE is scum.
Situation A) AE comes back tomorrow and reveals a town investigation. So..now what? Do we immediately wagon the person that he claimed the investigation on? If they're town, we just have to hope that their claim gets them out of being lynched, otherwise we're just going to mislynch them, giving the mafia a free pass. If they're scum, most likely they're going to claim Vanilla, or they have a dynamite claim that is going to convince us that they're town.
Situation B) AE comes back tomorrow and reveals a scum investigation. We lynch him, he flips scum. So is he trying to get a mislynch? Or just playing a giant WIFOM game?
Do you guys just not understand how this game works, or what? Stuff like this is why the town loses so often anymore. AE acted *like scum*. That is why he got wagon'ed and brought to the point where he was forced to claim. Sometimes when this happens, a person claims a role that is extremely unlikely to be scum, and they get a pardon. That is *not the case* now. AE acted like scum, and his claim isn't enough to grant him a pass. Lynching him is correct.
The way I see it, if we let him live tonight, then we get his investigation result tomorrow. Then we lynch AE. Absolute worst case we lynch a townie who is now vanilla, and best case we lynch scum. If he flips town, then we know that his result from N1 was accurate and we have a confirmed townie or a scum result. If he flips scum, we dismiss the result as WIFOM and ignore it.
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Lol..we 'ignore it completely'. Guess we'd better hope that he doesn't just try to be clever and claim a scumbuddy is scum then, right?
I am suddenly reminded of why I wanted to take a break from this game. If AE is not being lynched today, please kill me.
Emphasis added. There's so many ways to abuse his position if we let him live. His behavior has been pretty horrible this game, and seeing how he's not new, I'd be very suprised if he were town.
Honestly, I just read through the thread, looking for evidence of AE being town. And I'm just really not seeing it. He voted Loran, then unvoted him effectively because Loran told him to. He never adequately explained this, despite multiple people asking. He has backpedaled, as quickly as possible, off of every idea he's had. Zindabad has posted valid metagame evidence pointing towards him being scum. His claim sucks.
Lol..we 'ignore it completely'. Guess we'd better hope that he doesn't just try to be clever and claim a scumbuddy is scum then, right?
I am suddenly reminded of why I wanted to take a break from this game. If AE is not being lynched today, please kill me.
You don't seem to understand me. It's called IGNORING. IT means we IGNORE the thing completely. It's a NULL TELL. The player could be scum, the player could be town; either way there'll be play evidence of that player's alignment. That's what we focus on. We IGNORE the accusation of the dead scum.
Seriously, i fail to see how this is hard for you to see, and calling me scum is really silly.
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Still not home, don't like SB claim, will expound later. Also read ghost town, particularly bilbroxain. Someone saying they are town over and over actually probably makes them the opposite.
No one should target Vezokpriko tonight.
I how everyone keeps bring that role up. I also agree with no one targetting vezok, based on what I have so far.
Honestly, I just read through the thread, looking for evidence of AE being town. And I'm just really not seeing it. He voted Loran, then unvoted him effectively because Loran told him to.
Again, prove it. Show us where that happened.
He never adequately explained this, despite multiple people asking. He has backpedaled, as quickly as possible, off of every idea he's had.
Lies.
Zindabad has posted valid metagame evidence pointing towards him being scum. His claim sucks.
I just don't see him being town.
No he hasn't, and neither have you. He just wants me dead before him.
Cyan all your doing is throwing fluff around. Saying things without proof hoping the town will blindly follow you. This is horrible play by you if in fact you are town. Your tunneled onto me and have done nothing to weed out the scum. What are your points against me? The Loran votes? Thats based on type of claims which I've gone over. The possible lynching of a neutral? I don't trust them not wining the way they say and letting them plant a seed into the town during the night. If those are non town behavior then get this over with now and lynch me today because I'll have those same thoughts tomorrow.
Anyone other than Cyan who only locks onto one player at a time until they're lynched? Hows that for spiteful?
Yeah lets put all our cards on the table for the scum to pick through. No degree of pro-town what so ever there, which ever way you spin it.
Speaking of pro-town, you haven't actually been that helpful to the town at all. Your just snaking your way through the thread waiting for wagons to pop up. And defending Jobo here, Starting to see a connection. FOS
What of my behavior is not town?
Like with Jobo(which he never did) I ask you to show proof. Zindabad loves to throw that meta out there. Kithkin I was nailed for fencesitting on a softclaim and had no idea what to do. How is this similar? You throw that meta out there knowing(hoping) people will just go along and believe you. If Zindabad is truely town he would not have brought that forward to use toward a lynch because he knows its not true. Manga I was not scum but an SK that needed all to die(which pissed him off 'cause I'm the reason he got nailed to the wall). 26 I was nailed for being non-commital and trying to subtly push the town in a different direction. So Cyan I would love to see how those plays are similar to this game?
Attacks Zindabad after Zindabad supports his lynch.
AE's response (distancing himself from kpaca) is also noted.
This is nice, putting it to the town that when/if Kpaca turns up scum you want to lop me in there. Is that what your implying? Where have I showed that I'm aligned with him in anyway? I don't like how this is coming across and how your trying to steer the town. FOS Zindabad
I don't like this smear campaign. Never said trap. Never said suspecting me is scummy. I now want to see who jumps on to try and get a quick lynch (for a weak reason in my opinion). I never wavered or flip flopped at all on the matter, if so I'd see your point. Yeah you say you exaggerated but its still out there. vote Milldawg
Attacks the person who is expressing suspicion on him.
Well I didn't see anything from you. Should I ask Zin for you? Looking back I see how many times you jump your vote and push others to vote and stress lynching now. I don't see how this is pro town running the town in circles. unvote vote D_V vote count please
DV votes him and pushes for AE lynch. AE turns on DV.
AE has a history of reacting with hostility to anyone that expresses suspicion on him when he is scum. He is doing that here. I do not recall him doing this in Anita Blake mafia where he was town. I'm going to go read some of AE's other town games but right now that combined with his other behavior here and his claim has me pretty convinced that he's scum.
AE has a history of reacting with hostility to anyone that expresses suspicion on him when he is scum. He is doing that here. I do not recall him doing this in Anita Blake mafia where he was town. I'm going to go read some of AE's other town games but right now that combined with his other behavior here and his claim has me pretty convinced that he's scum.
I am? My vote is on Jobo and I've gone back and fourth with Cyan. So where have I gone hostile on anyone here?
I'm actually very confident in AE and Cyan being scumbuddies now. Just look at Anita Blake mafia, right out of the gates Cyan bussed me hard. Like really, really hard saying things like "OMG I know he is scum" all the time. If you read Day 1 of that game its easy to see the striking similarities between Cyan's play in that game and play in this game.
@jobo: Just because I bussed you as scum doesn't mean I do so all of the time. That was just a convenient circumstance.
@Loran: All that your argument is proving is the lack of use in keeping AE alive. You're not even arguing that he might be town or shouldn't be lynched, just that we should 'do it tomorrow instead'. This stinks of ulterior motives.
I like how Syrenz makes a bunch of points, and AE just addresses one.
How is that stretching anything? I said that you ignored all of his points except one, which is correct. Responding to the summary means practically nothing.
And I don't need to 'prove it' now, because Syrenz just did.
I'm still alive, despite all evidence to the contrary. Sorry, but my thoughts are going to have to wait until later today; I've been up all night working and I'm in dire need to sleep.
However, right now I am more inclined toward lynching Cyan than I am AE. Explanation/case/whatever coming with next post.
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He thinks his claim stinks but it wouldn't be smart to lynch him today, the same thing that everyone who is pushing town motives would think.
Wait didn't you just make a big post outlining how it would make more sense to just lynch AE tomorrow?
Unvote.
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Not... really.
I still think AE is probable scum. That post is essentially a discussion between myself and the voice in my head going "what if he's town? what if he's town?".
I'm still leaning towards an AE lynch, hence my vote still on him, but I think we need more discussion on the subject. As I said, I'm in a bit of two minds. It's not clear cut which decision is the correct one.
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Let me ask you this. Considering you just outlined the plusses to keeping AE until tomorrow, what are the benefits to lynching him today?
If he is scum he doesn't get to use whatever ability he might have.
We avoid having more people claim, leaving the scum with less information when they decide their night actions.
If he is town we avoid the scenario where he comes out roleblocked tomorrow. Under that scenario we'd still lynch him, but have nothing to show for it. (Although it does tie up the roleblocker for a night, which is a minor plus)
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
If he's town, we get a clear townie(or, unlikely as it may be, a caught scum). Yes, this is valuable.
The problem is, what if he is NOT town? Because his behavior is not town, and his claim really doesn't seem likely to be real. Let's say he comes along tomorrow and reveals a scum result. That person claims, their claim isn't something fantastic that gets them out of suspicion, and we lynch them..oh but they were town afterall. Or, he is scum and says someone is town. We lynch him, and are stuck wondering indefinitely about the other person(a scum with a 1-shot investigation is not necessarily just going to clear a townie like a scum trying to falseclaim permanent Cop would). Plus, if he's lying, as Zchnique said, he will get to use whatever his real ability is tonight.
Behaviorally, AE has been scummy on an independent basis. He has also played similarly to games where he was scum, and not similarly to games where he was town. His claim is seriously one of the most easily faked claims imaginable(and 1-shot cop is so unlikely to be useful that I really doubt it is a real role). The drawbacks of leaving him alive far, far outweigh the benefits.
The correct play is to lynch him.
What of my behavior is not town?
Like with Jobo(which he never did) I ask you to show proof. Zindabad loves to throw that meta out there. Kithkin I was nailed for fencesitting on a softclaim and had no idea what to do. How is this similar? You throw that meta out there knowing(hoping) people will just go along and believe you. If Zindabad is truely town he would not have brought that forward to use toward a lynch because he knows its not true. Manga I was not scum but an SK that needed all to die(which pissed him off 'cause I'm the reason he got nailed to the wall). 26 I was nailed for being non-commital and trying to subtly push the town in a different direction. So Cyan I would love to see how those plays are similar to this game?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Thats just it, it is about the initial behavior. Voting/unvoting Loran for what I thought he was implying what Jobo is now, regarding a full claim. Nothing hostile about this game but the one quote about being spiteful. No those scum games I was panicky and that killed me, don't twist it.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Regardless, he's a role that, unless a cop wastes a shot on him, will never be confirmed, and will forevermore be a huge suspect in the game.
So the basic options are lynch him now, or lynch him later.
If you lynch him now, I dont see anything HORRIBLY wrong with that (We never know what day 2 will give, so better to deal with him now then later.)
If you lynch him LATER, i would suggest looking into Jobo. His conversations thusfar have *NOT* struck me in a positive way.
Also @Kpaca: LAWL. This is awesome. I've given up arguing with Cyan, best bet is to just ignore him when he's being dumb. Neither me nor you will ever get him lynched. Too many Sheepioso.
I'm glad that at least one of the claimed neutrals is being logical here.
You know, I have to wonder if SB and Kpaca's abilities pass on to whomever they target. Otherwise, it seems like the ability is just 'I lived a day longer than you, WINNAR ME!'. And that doesn't seem particularly likely.
If Cyan's telling the truth in his recent posts regarding AE's meta, then I agree that his play here is closer to his scum meta. My vote stands for now.
joboman's strange arguments are a null tell at the moment. Funnily enough, the only person who I think is connected to AE is joboman himself based on how they locked their votes on each other. I'm still of the mind that these two are batting for different teams.
EWP:
How is he a mislynch if he's scum? If you weren't a claimed neutral I'd find that phrasing very suspicious.
This.
*sigh* You're being silly. You know PRECISELY what i meant, and are just looking for slips of the tongue. So... SPHUAH
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?u=52729
Watch out there. Thats what I brought up for reasons on not trusting them and you guys want my head. Same as this logic.
The only point in lynching one of the neutrals. They use their ability tonight and vig'd the next night but there is that one golden/orange goo out there unbeknown to us continuing what they started. Thats all I'm saying for the reason to lynch one now and vig one tonight.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
He/She has 48 hours to respond by posting in this thread.
Goocount
Archmage Eternal (8) - Cyan, Zchinque, AsianInvasion, Syrenz, Talore, zindabad, StormBlind, Zajnet
loran16 (2) - Axelrod, TACKY
TACKY (2) - loran16, ced395
Zchinque (1) - RobRoy
joboman (1) - Archmage Eternal
Falkonn (1) - vezokpiraka
Cyan (1) - kpaca
With 21 Goo alive, it’s 11 Goo to Lynch.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
AE's claim doesn't do much for proving he's not scum, but lynching a potential cop investigation is something I really don't wanna do. More reread, and a look into his past scum play should do fine. Any good reference games?
Joboman's play here regarding AE seems mostly like he's playing along with the whole situation. FoS Joboman
Doing that reread starting...now.
yeah I agree with this. Don't like the claim but the possibility of gaining an investigation on someone if he's actually town is appealing.
@AE: Can you give me a list of your most recent scum games?
@TACKY: I don't believe you answered post #431
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
No unvote?
Nothing recent. The latest one is Kithkin then Halo.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
The line that was sarcastic was me making fun of the fact that FoSing me would be suspicious, because the argument had come that FoSes were suspicious, which is ridiculous. I want him to FoS/Vote/come to some decision, so I sarcastically implied that the reason he hadn't FoSed me was to avoid suspicion.
The line you quote here isn't the sarcastic one. Make sense? Lemme know if I should clarify further.
Situation 1, AE is town.
---Gets Roleblocked by scum, leaving the rest of the town unhindered by their actions. We lynch AE tomorrow since his shot is used up, resulting in a mislynch tomorrow instead of today.
Situation 2, AE is town
---Is Not RBed, gets a valid inspection result (potentially a hit on a scum). We lynch him and then have a valid inspection result for the game.
Situation 3, AE is scum
---We lynch him and ignore his result as being totally WIFOM and completely irrelevant. We lynch correctly tomorrow instead of today.
So by leaving him tomorrow we either get the scum to use their RB on a player we otherwise would've killed or we get a valid inspection result if he's town (possible). If he's scum we lose nothing.
WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS?
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Goocount
Archmage Eternal (8) - Cyan, Zchinque, AsianInvasion, Syrenz, Talore, zindabad, StormBlind, Zajnet
loran16 (1) - Axelrod
TACKY (1) - loran16
Zchinque (1) - RobRoy
joboman (1) - Archmage Eternal
Falkonn (1) - vezokpiraka
Cyan (1) - kpaca
With 21 Goo alive, it’s 11 Goo to Lynch.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Because Cyan is scum.
I'm glad you are here though, because I know that you will do your best to prevent the usual town implosion.
Ultimately, this is what it boils down to. If he is town, best case scenario, he finds one scum. If he is scum, he either A)falsely incriminates someone tomorrow or B)clears a scumbuddy. Either of these are disastrous, and are far more of a detriment than one scum being caught is a benefit.
Cyan, how do you know within a reasonable doubt that he isn't town? There's only two possibilities that come to mind:
1. N0 investigation
2. You two are scumbuddies.
Please explain.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
HOORAY LOGIC!
Not only is that not logical, it is bafflingly incorrect. If he is scum, we lose out no matter what.
Here are some hypothetical situations, where AE is scum.
Situation A) AE comes back tomorrow and reveals a town investigation. So..now what? Do we immediately wagon the person that he claimed the investigation on? If they're town, we just have to hope that their claim gets them out of being lynched, otherwise we're just going to mislynch them, giving the mafia a free pass. If they're scum, most likely they're going to claim Vanilla, or they have a dynamite claim that is going to convince us that they're town.
Situation B) AE comes back tomorrow and reveals a scum investigation. We lynch him, he flips scum. So is he trying to get a mislynch? Or just playing a giant WIFOM game?
Do you guys just not understand how this game works, or what? Stuff like this is why the town loses so often anymore. AE acted *like scum*. That is why he got wagon'ed and brought to the point where he was forced to claim. Sometimes when this happens, a person claims a role that is extremely unlikely to be scum, and they get a pardon. That is *not the case* now. AE acted like scum, and his claim isn't enough to grant him a pass. Lynching him is correct.
@joboman: I didn't even know there was a N0 in this game. So no, I don't have a N0 investigation. And no, we're not scumbuddies. Though that line of thought would still mean that AE is scum, and that lynching him is correct. So feel free to think that, as long as AE gets lynched today.
@Kpaca: If you actually thought I was scum, you wouldn't even bother making posts like the one you just did. Thanks for making it obvious, though, that you're just trying to cause trouble.
NO!. If he comes back with an investigation tomorrow, we IGNORE IT COMPLETELY if he turns out scum. The suggestion to to lynch him 100% of the time tomorrow. If he's scum, WE IGNORE IT COMPLETELY because if's wifom. It's not a tell in any way. And thus it's harmless.
If he's town on the other hand, it's a positive.
Ergo Potential Positive > No Negative.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
The way I see it, if we let him live tonight, then we get his investigation result tomorrow. Then we lynch AE. Absolute worst case we lynch a townie who is now vanilla, and best case we lynch scum. If he flips town, then we know that his result from N1 was accurate and we have a confirmed townie or a scum result. If he flips scum, we dismiss the result as WIFOM and ignore it.
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
Unvote AE, because we should let him live.
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
I am suddenly reminded of why I wanted to take a break from this game. If AE is not being lynched today, please kill me.
First, there is the fact that his immediate reaction to Kpaca/SB was 'might be a scum gambit'. This is indicative of Loran thinking as scum.
Then there is 'the scum can just RB AE'. We don't even know that the scum HAVE an RB.
But in reality, Loran just wants AE to live because Loran is his scumbuddy.
Emphasis added. There's so many ways to abuse his position if we let him live. His behavior has been pretty horrible this game, and seeing how he's not new, I'd be very suprised if he were town.
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
I just don't see him being town.
You don't seem to understand me. It's called IGNORING. IT means we IGNORE the thing completely. It's a NULL TELL. The player could be scum, the player could be town; either way there'll be play evidence of that player's alignment. That's what we focus on. We IGNORE the accusation of the dead scum.
Seriously, i fail to see how this is hard for you to see, and calling me scum is really silly.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I how everyone keeps bring that role up. I also agree with no one targetting vezok, based on what I have so far.
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
Again, prove it. Show us where that happened.
Lies.
No he hasn't, and neither have you. He just wants me dead before him.
Cyan all your doing is throwing fluff around. Saying things without proof hoping the town will blindly follow you. This is horrible play by you if in fact you are town. Your tunneled onto me and have done nothing to weed out the scum. What are your points against me? The Loran votes? Thats based on type of claims which I've gone over. The possible lynching of a neutral? I don't trust them not wining the way they say and letting them plant a seed into the town during the night. If those are non town behavior then get this over with now and lynch me today because I'll have those same thoughts tomorrow.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
No unvote because I'm debating how likely it is that you are town.
____
Did a comparison of Goo mafia and Kithkin mafia.
Attacks his attacker and tries to discredit him.
Attacks Zindabad after Zindabad supports his lynch.
Kithkin Mafia:
Zindabad suggests he is scum. Turns on him.
Attacks the person who is expressing suspicion on him.
DV votes him and pushes for AE lynch. AE turns on DV.
AE has a history of reacting with hostility to anyone that expresses suspicion on him when he is scum. He is doing that here. I do not recall him doing this in Anita Blake mafia where he was town. I'm going to go read some of AE's other town games but right now that combined with his other behavior here and his claim has me pretty convinced that he's scum.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
I am? My vote is on Jobo and I've gone back and fourth with Cyan. So where have I gone hostile on anyone here?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
@Loran: All that your argument is proving is the lack of use in keeping AE alive. You're not even arguing that he might be town or shouldn't be lynched, just that we should 'do it tomorrow instead'. This stinks of ulterior motives.
I like how Syrenz makes a bunch of points, and AE just addresses one.
I love how you keep stretching things. I replied to the summary of his post.
At least I addressed it. You ignore my last one to yours.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
And I don't need to 'prove it' now, because Syrenz just did.
However, right now I am more inclined toward lynching Cyan than I am AE. Explanation/case/whatever coming with next post.