I am totally unconvinced that Sylar would gain a revenge shot (since such a thing is beyond useless on a role which requires survival to win), and therefore believe he is bluffing. DKD still needs to hammer, obviously, in case of explosions.
Yeah, because giving me a one-shot vig is so useful when I can only use one ability at a time.
How about we stop gaming the mod there, son.
Basically, the numbers allow us to lynch Sylar. DKD has offered to hammer, so unless an explosion kills a random player (which would BE LAME), then even a standard bomb is fine. If the revenge shot is real, then we just have to hope AI is feeling sporting and doesn't gift the win to the team that doesn't deserve it.
Seeing as how I can win with the town, I don't see what's "sporting" about lynching me. If you guys lynch me and lose as a result, you'll "deserve it."
Yeah, because giving me a one-shot vig is so useful when I can only use one ability at a time.
How about we stop gaming the mod there, son.
That's totally different - you kill me, you'd get a kill. Not useful, sure, but it comes as-is. However, you are trying to have us believe that you gained a modified (improved) version of an ability, the improvement of which requires you to have lost for it to function. Given also that this 'improved' ability would be accessible to only you, this is at best bad game design, and at worse is totally fabricated.
Technically, I suppose, it could apply to Peter's absorption, but even so Nice Strawman though.
Quote from AI »
Seeing as how I can win with the town, I don't see what's "sporting" about lynching me. If you guys lynch me and lose as a result, you'll "deserve it."
The key point is that we do not KNOW that you can win with the town - it is extrapolated from a quirk in the rules which would render you unlynchable and therefore technically the only player with a "kill". You must recognize that this is the correct play for the town, and that you have unfortunately not ended up your preferred position.
Since Zionite will not confirm whether or not AI can win with us, I do not see how there is any other course of action to take other for us to lynch him.
That's totally different - you kill me, you'd get a kill. Not useful, sure, but it comes as-is. However, you are trying to have us believe that you gained a modified (improved) version of an ability, the improvement of which requires you to have lost for it to function. Given also that this 'improved' ability would be accessible to only you, this is at best bad game design, and at worse is totally fabricated.
Technically, I suppose, it could apply to Peter's absorption, but even so Nice Strawman though.
Wow, did you even read the ability text on Induced Radioactivity?
Induced Radioactivity(target self, passive, supernatural): If you couldn't control this power, things would get very hot, very quickly. For you, this ability does nothing. For others it may well be their death, or everyone's for that matter.
It is specifically worded such that it works differently depending on who has it. If Peter were to absorb it, I'd bet that there'd be a countdown which kills everyone were it to expire, leaving maybe Peter and Claire alive, though other PRs would be able to delay or possibly stop it altogether (The Haitian). Trying to say that I couldn't have gained a refined/improved version of the ability from Ted is silly considering that's what Sylar does.
The key point is that we do not KNOW that you can win with the town - it is extrapolated from a quirk in the rules which would render you unlynchable and therefore technically the only player with a "kill". You must recognize that this is the correct play for the town, and that you have unfortunately not ended up your preferred position.
Since Zionite will not confirm whether or not AI can win with us, I do not see how there is any other course of action to take other for us to lynch him.
I'm pretty sure that if I had to be the last player alive to win, it would say as much. I even asked Zionite and guess what? Killing the town is completely unnecessary for me to win!
Lynching me is a bad idea.
Wow, did you even read the ability text on Induced Radioactivity?
Induced Radioactivity(target self, passive, supernatural): If you couldn't control this power, things would get very hot, very quickly. For you, this ability does nothing. For others it may well be their death, or everyone's for that matter.
I'm pretty that's supposed to be "the radioactivity doesn't hurt you, but it might other people", since that makes more sense. But I grant that it is ambiguously worded.
Quote from AI »
Trying to say that I couldn't have gained a refined/improved version of the ability from Ted is silly considering that's what Sylar does.
My point is that it is not - from Sylar's point of view - improved or refined. It's totally useless for him, since it requires him to be dead to function. This is my key point - it doesn't make sense.
Quote from AI »
I'm pretty sure that if I had to be the last player alive to win, it would say as much. I even asked Zionite and guess what? Killing the town is completely unnecessary for me to win!
Lynching me is a bad idea.
And exactly how do we know that isn't what it says? Answer: We don't. trusting you when we don't have to is an obviously bad idea.
On the other hand, the rules and my role PM only mention killing all villains. It is confirmed that there is only villain left and that's DKD. It is beyond dumb and I'm either going to complain (still) post game about an SK that isn't an SK or about 7 scum, so take your pick. I believe we can probably win with Sylar, since he is 100% a rogue.
Like Eco said, AI is bluffing to save himself. And even if it's true and he does have a revenge vig shot, why would he use it on a Townie? I'm the one who didn't kill anyone last Night (I doc'd TIM on the off chance his ability would reveal something useful about vez or something) so that we could lynch him today. I'm the one who would be responsible for crafting the scenario in which he lost at that point, why would he hand me the game on a silver platter?
I'm pretty that's supposed to be "the radioactivity doesn't hurt you, but it might other people", since that makes more sense. But I grant that it is ambiguously worded.
Yeah, it might hurt other people if I shoot them in the face.
My point is that it is not - from Sylar's point of view - improved or refined. It's totally useless for him, since it requires him to be dead to function. This is my key point - it doesn't make sense.
It's not totally useless. It triggers if someone tries to NK me (successfully or unsuccessfully), but since I can't be killed it's no surprise that dropkickdude didn't try that.
On the other hand, the rules and my role PM only mention killing all villains. It is confirmed that there is only villain left and that's DKD. It is beyond dumb and I'm either going to complain (still) post game about an SK that isn't an SK or about 7 scum, so take your pick. I believe we can probably win with Sylar, since he is 100% a rogue.
Like Eco said, AI is bluffing to save himself. And even if it's true and he does have a revenge vig shot, why would he use it on a Townie? I'm the one who didn't kill anyone last Night (I doc'd TIM on the off chance his ability would reveal something useful about vez or something) so that we could lynch him today. I'm the one who would be responsible for crafting the scenario in which he lost at that point, why would he hand me the game on a silver platter?
Well, you've only got one vote and can't kill me anyway. You set up the situation I'm in now, but if all three townies go along with it, then they're just as responsible for my loss. To be honest I'm not sure who I'd kill if lynched, but it could definitely go either way.
I guess this is still just taking you at your word AI, but what happens if you do become unlynchable but no one has won (i.e., we lynch DKD and we're still playing)? Would you be willing to lynch yourself?
I guess this is still just taking you at your word AI, but what happens if you do become unlynchable but no one has won (i.e., we lynch DKD and we're still playing)? Would you be willing to lynch yourself?
I don't think that's possible. The town wins once all the mafia are dead, and if I'm unlynchable at that point then I also win.
If by some strange circumstance the game hasn't ended then I have no idea what I would do; I would probably ask Zionite WTF is going on before making up my mind.
Yeah, it might hurt other people if I shoot them in the face.
WELL IGNORED. You know what I mean.
Quote from AI »
It's not totally useless. It triggers if someone tries to NK me (successfully or unsuccessfully), but since I can't be killed it's no surprise that dropkickdude didn't try that.
Alright, that makes more sense. But it coming up after the fact makes it no more believable.
Quote from AI »
Gambling away a mod-confirmed win because of your rampant paranoia seems incredibly poor. If it comes down to it, we don't need your vote anyway.
So the whole it being categorically NOT mod-confirmed just magically doesn't apply? We have literally only your word to rely on, and not blindly doing so is not "rampant paranoia", it's common bloody sense.
So the whole it being categorically NOT mod-confirmed just magically doesn't apply? We have literally only your word to rely on, and not blindly doing so is not "rampant paranoia", it's common bloody sense.
Alright, that makes more sense. But it coming up after the fact makes it no more believable.
I didn't say that because I thought it was obvious given the fact that my abilities are similar to the ones I take from people I kill, and also because it's no longer relevant (because I claimed already).
So the whole it being categorically NOT mod-confirmed just magically doesn't apply? We have literally only your word to rely on, and not blindly doing so is not "rampant paranoia", it's common bloody sense.
Yeah, sure. Ignore the OP. The mod definitely wouldn't put any useful information regarding the town win con in there.
Yeah, sure. Ignore the OP. The mod definitely wouldn't put any useful information regarding the town win con in there.
oh ffs, it's not the town win-con that's relevant it's YOURS. And whose word do we have to trust on that matter? That's right, YOU. Suddenly, the issue becomes apparent!
oh ffs, it's not the town win-con that's relevant it's YOURS. And whose word do we have to trust on that matter? That's right, YOU. Suddenly, the issue becomes apparent!
It's not relevant at all. The town wins when the mafia are dead. Therefore, the town wins once dkd dies. If my win con was "You win when you are the last player alive." I would lose as soon as dkd is dead because the town win con will have been fulfilled and mine will not (hence why I did not kill dkd last Night). If you think that I have the traditional SK win con, then lynching dkd would cause me to lose. There is literally no reason for you to want to kill me because lynching dkd will inevitably result in a town win, with the potential of letting me win, depending on my win con.
This game has gone on long enough and nothing new is being said. It's very likely that AI is lying about his extra kill, but does it matter? Is anybody that strongly wanting him to lose?
Breaks down like this:
My role confirms he is a Rogue
My role PM and the OP says I only need to kill Villains
"We dream of hope, we dream of change, of fire, of love, of death. And then it happens; the dream becomes real, and the answer to this quest, this need to solve life's mysteries finally shows itself like the glowing light of the new dawn. So much struggle for meaning, for purpose. And in the end, we find it only in each other. Our shared experience of the fantastic and the mundane. The simple human need to find a kindred. To connect. And to know in our hearts... that we are not alone."
Some were shocked, others in disbelief. Most were not surprised at all.
"You must know what this means, Sylar. We have to kill you. We can't have someone out there like you. You kill for sport, and you are dangerous." Isaac Mendez responded.
"So you're no better than the Villains you seek." Sylar growled, "You would judge me as you yourselves were judged. You would kill me as you yourselves were killed."
"You're a killer too!" Charlie yelled at Sylar.
"That may be, but we can go our separate ways when all is said and done. The Villain won't stop as easily."
The small crowd, once 22 in number and now a mere 5, nodded in silence. It may be true...it may not be. The superhumans were left with a coin flip. The serial killer, or the villains?
______________________________
The files said Daniel Linderman was one of the founders of the Company. He was the sole reason evolved humans were being captured and killed. Linderman was dead now, with the Heroes standing over his body.
Sylar was no where to be found.
______________________________
Dead:
0. Chandra Suresh - Geneticist (Hero) : Died night 0, top of skull removed.
21. joboman, Angela Petrelli - Dreamer (Villain): Lynched Day 1.
20. falkonn, "Claude Rains" - Invisible Man (Hero): Died Night 1, top of skull removed. 12. Cyan, Peter Petrelli - Empathic Mimic (Hero): Died Night 1, shot to death.
10. AlphaInsidious, Nathan Petrelli - Brother Politician (Hero): Died Night 1, suicide.
15. tordeck, Ando Masahashi - Friend (Hero): Lynched Day 2.
19. Hunted_Charlie, Niki Sanders - Disassociative (Hero): Died Night 2, top of skull removed.
6. TACKY, Matt Parkman - Bodyguard (Hero): Died Night 2, shot to death.
3. red_0mega, Candice Wilmer - Illusionist (Villain): Lynched Day 3.
22. Wrath_of_DoG, Claire Bennet - Kill-immune Reviver (Hero): Died Night 3, top of skull removed.
9. Nom_Anor, Micah Sanders - Hacker (Hero): Died Night 3, burned to death.
5. Archmage_Eternal, Molly Walker - Tracker (Villain): Lynched Day 4.
17. Cyouni, Noah Bennet - Public Cop (Hero): Died Night 4, shot to death.
12. Cyan, Peter Petrelli - Empathic Mimic (Hero): Died Night 4, top of skull removed.
11. StormBlind, DL Hawkins - Phaser (Hero): Lynched Day 5.
18. dracofaust, Mohinder Suresh - Role-cop (Hero): Died Night 5, top of skull removed.
14. Ace, Hiro Nakamura - Delayer (Hero): Died Night 5, shot to death.
2. kpaca (r. Syrenz), "The Haitian" - Mental Manipulator (Villain): Lynched Day 6.
1. vezokpiraka, Ted Sprague - Nuclear Man (Rogue): top of skull removed.
4. dropkickdude, Daniel Linderman - Doctor (Villain): Lynched Day 7.
Alive:
.07 Ecophagy, Meredith Gordon - Vigilante (Hero)
8. AsianInvasion, "Sylar" - Serial Killer (Rogue)
13. TheIceMan, Isaac Mendez - Precognitive (Hero)
16. nacho_wizard, Charlene 'Charlie' Andrews - Census Taker (Hero)
Dreamer:
Precognitive Dreaming(target self, passive, supernatural): This ability makes you appear to be Hero upon investigation.
Invisible Man:
Invisibility(target self, passive, supernatural): You can turn invisible at will. You are also paranoid of being watched and actioned upon. You naturally turn invisible to avoid action against you, and as such any non-kill action on you fails automatically. You cannot choose to stop this ability.
Empathic Mimic:
Empathic Mimicry(target player, night action, supernatural): During the night phase you may choose to absorb a target player's power. This will result in copying any supernatural ability available from the target into a one shot ability for yourself. This ability will be added to your Abilities list. You may also use Empathic Mimicry in conjunction with another ability, but only if the target remains the same. This ability may also be dangerous, as certain supernatural abilities may change alignment or affect you in some other way.
Brother Politician:
Brother(target self, passive): You love Peter very much. If Peter dies, you die as well.
Political Pardon(target player, day action): During the day phase you may submit a player name via PM. That person can not be lynched for the remainder of the day. If the lynch threshold is reached votes will be reset and a lynch will not occur. You cannot use this ability on yourself.
Rescue(target player, night action, one shot, supernatural): Once during the game as a night action, you may submit the name of a player to rescue. That player will be protected and blocked that night as you fly to rescue them.
Friend:
No Abilities
Disassociative:
Super Strength(target self, passive, supernatural): You require 1 more vote than normal to be lynched.
Bodyguard:
Guard(target player, night action, supernatural): Using your telepathy, you are able to stop a kill made on a player. During the night, you may send me a target player to be guarded. If a kill is made against that player, you will use telepathy to redirect that kill to yourself. You will also kill that the attacker.
Illusionist:
Illusion(target player, night action, supernatural): Each night you may send in the name of a player. That player will appear to be a Villain if investigated that night.
Identity Thief(target self, night action, one shot, supernatural): Once during the game and during the night phase, you may use this action to obtain a safe role claim that isn't already in the game via PM the next day. This ability may not be used in conjunction with Illusion.
Kill-immune Reviver:
Kill-immune(target self, passive, supernatural): You are immune to kill actions unless otherwise stated.
Revive(target player, night action, one shot): Using your special blood, you may arrange to have a blood transfusion to one dead player. That player will be back in the game the following day. You may only use this ability once in the game via PM containing "Revive" and your target.
Hacker:
Hack(target player, night action, supernatural): During the night phase you may choose a target for the Hack ability via PM. During that night, the target player's actions will be affected negatively at random. The player's action may be blocked, delayed, redirected, or not affected at all. You will not receive any notice of the results.
Tracker:
Clairvoyance(target player, night action, supernatural): You may choose to track a target player each night. The following day you will receive a PM notifying you of who the player targeted, if any.
Public Cop:
Investigation(target player, night action): At night you may PM me the Investigation action with a target player. The following day you will receive results via PM telling you that player's alignment. These results are not guaranteed to be 100% accurate.
Notification(target player, night action): This ability may only be used if your vote was on a successful Villain lynch. Each time you help lynch a Villain, you may use this ability once. This works exactly the same as Investigation, except instead of receiving results via PM, the result will be posted in the Day scene of the thread anonymously.
Phaser:
Hide(target self, night action, one shot, supernatural): Once during the game, during the night phase, you may submit the Hide action via PM. When hidden, all actions to target you that night fail automatically unless otherwise stated.
Role-cop:
Investigate(no target, night action): You may investigate at night by PMing me the action "Investigate". The following day you will receive a PM containing a player's role title and available supernatural abilities, but not what the abilities do. These results are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Research(target result, night action): Using your results, you may attempt to connect a set of results to your father's database, leading to a player in the game. By sending in quoted results and the action "Research", you will receive a PM the following day naming the player who possesses those abilities. If no player alive in the game has those abilities, you will receive an inconclusive result.
Delayer:
Delay(target player, night action, supernatural): During the night phase you may submit a player name for the Delay ability via PM. During the night, the target player's actions will be delayed until the following night(meaning: 'kill' from player A delayed still happens, but a night later). The target's action will go though the following night regardless of subsequent delaying or death, and has no bearing on any actions they take in the future unless delayed again.
Mental Manipulator:
Block(target player, night action, supernatural): You may choose to block a target player each night. That player's supernatural abilities will not work that night. Any supernatural abilities targeting that player will also fail. While using this ability, any supernatural ability used against you will fail.
Nuclear Man:
Induced Radioactivity(target self, passive, supernatural): If you couldn't control this power, things would get very hot, very quickly. For you, this ability does nothing. For others it may well be their death, or everyone's for that matter.
Doctor:
Healing(target player, night action, supernatural): You may protect target player during the night phase by sending in the target and action via PM. Using the power of healing touch, you will protect your target if they are also targeted by a kill.
Vigilante:
Kill(target player, night action, one shot, supernatural): Once during the game, during the night phase, you may submit the Kill action with target player via PM. That player will be dead the next day, charred to death.
Serial Killer:
Intuitive Aptitude(target self, passive, supernatural): This ability makes you a Serial Killer. Allows you to take any supernatural powers of those you kill. These abilities are added to your 'abilities' list as one shot powers, and cannot be use in conjunction with another action. This ability may be dangerous, as supernatural abilities may change alignment, or affect you in some other way.
Telekinesis(Target player, night action, supernatural): Each night you may submit the name of a player to use Telekinesis on. That player will die with a sliced skull and brain removed. Once during the game you may submit a concentrated telekinesis, which will go through any protections the target might have and kill that target, including supernatural protection.
Precognitive:
Precognitive Artistry(target locked, passive, supernatural): Using your ability, you will watch the actions on a player each night. This player is not always known to you, only their role name. You will watch the same player every night and cannot be changed. If that player dies, a new one will be selected randomly, but you will not discover role name nor player name. Every new day phase you will receive a PM that will tell you if the player was targeted the previous night. If the player was not targeted you will receive notification.
Census Taker:
Census(no target, day action, one shot, supernatural): Reveals to you via PM a count of how many Heroes, Villains, and Rogues are currently alive. This PM is not quotable, but you may share the numbers in any way you see fit if you choose to do so. You may only use this ability once during the game.
Winner(s): Ecophagy, TheIceMan, Nacho_Wizard and the Heroes, as well as AsianInvasion, or Sylar the Rogue Serial Killer.
______________________________
3 Months Later
Sylar sits in a dark corner of a pub, spinning a fork on the table with the tip of his finger 5 inches away. He was bored, yes. Immortality will be a heavy burden for a very long time. His innate desire for abilities was waning as a result of immortality too. It was just...the hunt was over. There was nothing more to gain from tracking down these evolved humans even if he wanted to.
He would live forever (extenuating circumstances aside), and he had no plans for that time.
A patron burst into an obnoxiously drunk Irish laughter that filled the pub. Moments later a fork was in his eye. It seemed to just appear there.
The man screamed. Sylar sipped his ale.
It was going to be a long forever.
______________________________
The heroes went on as well, all but forgetting about the serial killer and his part in this tale. Some of the heroes maintained their 'normal' lives, even though they were never normal. Other heroes tried to use their powers for the good of mankind, no matter how small their part may have been.
Meredith Gordon moved to Las Vegas where she picked up bartending and dealing cards. Some nights she'd go out and fight crime with fire.
Isaac Mendez published the 9th Wonders comic book series with great success. It was a big hit and made Mendez a pop culture icon.
Charlie Andrews continued her work at the little diner in Texas. She also began taking classes at a nearby community college, making a perfect 4.0 grade point average.
______________________________
Special Mention for the great skill in which Dropkickdude and AsianInvasion played this game.
Well done to all the players for a great Mafia experience.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
Damn, I tried. I really thought I had broken the game open on Day 6. I spent about 3 or 4 hours analyzing, only to realize that (under the assumption that AI was a traditional SK) there was no way for the Town to win. I guess I was wrong.
Great game Zionite! I enjoyed every bit of it. The flavor was amazing, and the modding was superb.
One question now that it's over: Was there really a mix up about AE and AI or was AI lying during the massclaim?
Hey, how come I died to Sylar if his powers weren't working? Shouldn't he have been roleblocked?
I presume I got Haitian'd...
You got Haitian'd because we were trying to block you and subsequently anyone who targeted you that night. Either Ace Hiro'd Syrenz or AI used his "Concentrated Telekinesis" on you. I presume the latter.
Great game (and I did, in fact, win with the town after all). I loved watching the endgame, which must have been one of the most bizarre ever played. Zionite, all of the flavor was truly awesome and the roles were great.
Loved the flavor, loved the roles. The interactions between Sylar, Peter, Ted, and Claire were genius. I'd love to see the full setup with notes. I'm rather surprised to see the SK could win with the town, but it worked out very nicely, especially with the sheer power potential he had. I'm kinda bummed I missed out on this one.
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The Golden Rule of forums: If you're going to be rude, be right. If you might be wrong, be polite.
1. Excellent game, fun all the way through.
2. I lied during the mass-claim; I had neglected that Cyouni must have targeted AE during Night Three while compiling my fake list of targeters.
3. WTF; the town won?
Quote from Zionite »
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Your role has changed.
Win condition: Be the last player with a kill alive.
Fascinating. What is my current role name and title?
AI
the same.
I see.
If all other players with kills die, am I the only winner or does the town win as well (assuming there are still town players alive at this point)?
AI
Sylar being alive doesn't really make the town feel like winners does it?
Either you or town will win. A lynch does count as a kill in relation to your wincon.
I don't understand how this win condition is different from my last, Claire-related clause aside. I still have to be alive with two or fewer other players alive, at which point I would be unlynchable and unkillable and would win by default. Could you clarify the difference, if any?
AI
It's not different, that's the point. It's acknowledgment of half your previous WC being completed.
4. /in for Volume II!
EDIT: I think Syrenz played a very good scum game but in the end kpaca had no chance due to flavor reasons. After StormBlind was lynched, the only town player who could have been false-claiming was nacho wizard/jordman (via OneMoreTime gimmick), but their play was obvtown so there was no chance of getting him lynched. For that matter, giving Claude and D.L. such similar roles was a bit questionable.
Before AE flipped Molly, I had planned on false-claiming that role name. Afterward, I deliberated several potential false-claims.
1. Charles Deveaux - Telepathy
2. Isaac – Precognition
3. Meredith – Pryokinesis
4. The Haitian – Memory Manipulation
6. Eden (?) – Persuasion
I knew Isaac and Meredith were in the game so I couldn't claim those. The Haitian and Eden would be too scummy to safely claim. I think #5 was Noah, who I would have claimed vanilla or one-shot vig with. The "normal" humans would have been safe vanilla claims (or so I thought), with Audrey potentially being a good watcher or gunsmith claim, though I ultimately decided on a character more relevant to the plot. Kaito would have been a cool claim, but since he has no known abilities in the canon I would have been called out immediately. Thompson was a very minor character and was scummy too.
N1 I killed falkonn with concentrated TK because I assumed he couldn't be killed normally. Oops.
N2 I killed Hunted Charlie because I assumed I would also be able to choose my alignment. Oops.
N3 I killed Claire. Obv.
N4 I killed Cyan. Obv.
N5 I killed dracofaust. Obv. (I thought there was a chance he could be scum, too.)
N6 I killed vezokpiraka assuming dkd was going to kill a townie. In retrospect, the correct play in this situation would have been to either kill a townie or make no kill.
Yeah there's a spectator forum with everything revealed. Just PM an email address and I'll get you in.
The only setup that's not revealed with everyones actions posted is how the Bomb truly worked. Under certain conditions, the Bomb would explode killing everyone that it can effect. It required Peter to have more than 3 powers, Nathan dead, and Peter absorbing Ted's power. If the game ended this way, Ted would be a winner (along with claire probably).
If it wasn't clear, Sylar and Ted are supposed to both die in the case Sylar kills Ted, but in this scenario Sylar was Kill-Immune.
In the case that Peter absorbs Sylar's ability (which failed in-game to Invisibility), then Peter would turn into an SK as well with all of Sylar's accumulated powers. (The next day it's assumed Peter outs Sylar as the SK then goes on to keep killing or keep secret, even with a body of an SK).
I was surprised at how often the players forgot Sylar was untargetable due to Invisibility.
I definitely want to see more games with absorbing roles because it turns out they're really fun. Sucks for Cyan though who never got to absorb anything.
Was a really fun game Zionite. Thanks for hosting. I'm a huge fan of the series, so I will definitely be looking forward to the next installment.
So I obviously was trying to bluff that the only way I could die was if I was lynched with the untargetable stuff. That definitely didn't work out the way that I wanted it to.
I'm glad that we could win with Sylar. Honestly, it makes sense with the way things work in the series. Sylar is a bad dude, but he goes his own way. The neutral/rogue thing was a good call as I'm sure it would be tempting to at first categorize him as mafia.
The only setup that's not revealed with everyones actions posted is how the Bomb truly worked. Under certain conditions, the Bomb would explode killing everyone that it can effect. It required Peter to have more than 3 powers, Nathan dead, and Peter absorbing Ted's power. If the game ended this way, Ted would be a winner (along with claire probably).
If it wasn't clear, Sylar and Ted are supposed to both die in the case Sylar kills Ted, but in this scenario Sylar was Kill-Immune.
I guess it's a good thing I didn't kill vezokpiraka Night One like I was considering. I'm not sure if I agree with that implementation but I can't really complain.
In the case that Peter absorbs Sylar's ability (which failed in-game to Invisibility), then Peter would turn into an SK as well with all of Sylar's accumulated powers. (The next day it's assumed Peter outs Sylar as the SK then goes on to keep killing or keep secret, even with a body of an SK).
I figured that would be the case. That would make it two games in which Cyan backstabbed the town.
The fact that one of the most powerful town roles was given to one of the best players in the game was a bit anti-climactic due to Cyan dying so quickly.
I definitely want to see more games with absorbing roles because it turns out they're really fun. Sucks for Cyan though who never got to absorb anything.
I included such an ability in Guildpact Mafia, as I'm sure joboman remembers. My version didn't get to keep multiple abilities at once, though.
Also, I still don't understand how the town won. Check my last post for the PM dialogue.
Read again AI. You were the last one with a kill alive. I just led you to believe otherwise. =P
Since Claire would be alive in a bomb scenario, technically the town would win yes. But Vezo never figured out what exploding would entail and for good reason. It's supposed to just happen, not be planned.
Read again AI. You were the last one with a kill alive. I just led you to believe otherwise. =P
Quote from Zionite via PM »
Sylar being alive doesn't really make the town feel like winners does it?
Either you or town will win. A lynch does count as a kill in relation to your wincon.
That sounds to me like "It's impossible for the town and Sylar to win together." Are you saying that you were deliberately being vague and unhelpful? I would have played the game totally differently if I actually believed I could win with the town.
I guess I can't complain too much because I did win, but I still...talk about (purposeful?) miscommunication.
Since Claire would be alive in a bomb scenario, technically the town would win yes. But Vezo never figured out what exploding would entail and for good reason. It's supposed to just happen, not be planned.
Odd, considering the bomb was Linderman's master plan during Season One. In the event of a bomb occurring in-game I think it would make more sense for Ted to be the only winner. (Maybe Claire commits suicide after seeing her friends and family killed.)
Odd, considering the bomb was Linderman's master plan during Season One. In the event of a bomb occurring in-game I think it would make more sense for Ted to be the only winner. (Maybe Claire commits suicide after seeing her friends and family killed.)
This was my first thought when I saw I was Linderman, but my flavor mentioned nothing about trying to cause the bomb to go off, so I left it alone.
@AI: Interesting. How would you have played differently if you truly believed we could win together (although I'm glad we won anyways!)?
I think the game would've been horribly imbalanced had we not been able to win with Sylar. We mislynched twice - and both of those players were acting ridiculously scummily. Honestly the town didn't play too badly our best PRs just got picked off early. We lost our super cop, Claire and Peter all very quickly and that made the game quite difficult for us. The roles we had at the end were pretty useless.
I do think some of the french vanilla roles were more useful than others. Honestly, I found my role to be completely useless and I actually can't even think of a scenario where it would have been helpful. On top of that (and the PM mixup) I spent a good deal of time just confused about what my role actually did. I think roles like Nacho Wizard's are a lot more interesting because it's pretty clear how they can be used, it feels like the player can actually "do something", but they're also still unlikely to be very useful.
On the other hand, though, the flavor of this game was amazing. I love the amount of time Zionite put into the roles and the incredible complexity of the game. I thought that game was very fun to play in and activity was extremely good (including one of the most active first days I can recall). This game is really an example of how a game should be run and how enjoyable it is to play in a game that doesn't drag and doesn't need a lot of replacements. I think, again, a lot of credit is due to Zionite here for creating such a compelling environment to play in.
Edit: If there's ever a Volume II I very much look forward to it. Thanks, Zionite!
@AI: Interesting. How would you have played differently if you truly believed we could win together (although I'm glad we won anyways!)?
The funny thing is, I probably would have played exactly the same, but I wouldn't have been stressing so much about having to lie about it.
Isaac's role may have been a bit more useful if it both tracked and watched its target, though it would also step on Molly's toes, making it harder for her to claim. Another way to make the role more useful would have been to give him information about how the bomb worked, although I can also see why keeping that information completely secret makes sense, as it's totally game-breaking if it can be deliberately set up.
As I said in [The Family] thread, this was by far my favorite Mafia game and I'm very grateful to Zionite for the awesome experience.
The game was pretty fun! The flavor was very cool, it was awesome that almost everybody had at least a small sort of role (like mine - not terribly useful, but interesting). Syrenz and DKD played extremely well. Like, as we were lynching Stormblind (lol blacklist), I had sort of decided if one of them was scum, my town read was just too strong with all the other options. Then kpaca replaced in and screwed up, then DKD claimed scum. Anyway, the setup seems very cool and flavorful. My main issue is...
It's extremely unbalanced. I think the town wins this game like 1/10 times. For one, we shouldn't have been able to win with the Serial Killer. Not having to lynch him because his win condition doesn't mesh is not the point - we needed to lynch him because he kills townies and doesn't want us to win. That he didn't matter for endgame math made him worse than scum, because we couldn't trust him and he was going to keep giving the scum an extra kill. His role is a scum role, and calling it rogue doesn't change anything. Like, what if I had died before claiming? The town would have absolutely no reason to believe he was a rogue and we would have definitely lost.
22 players.
There could have been 6 freaking mafia.
1 SK
1 Neutral
vs.
14 Town
If we mislynch the first two days and no crosskills, there are only 8 town left, and we are in lylo on DAY FREAKIN' 3. As it was, we lynched correctly on 5 of 7 days and if we had done even a little worse, or if Sylar had been unwilling to kill Vezok, we would have lost.
So, the flavor was incredible, the game was still fun, and you did a fantastic job modding - BUT - I think the setup was extremely unbalanced. Did anybody help you review?
Edit: Like, I'm not trying to be mean. You put a lot of work into creating and running this game and did an awesome job, I just want you to realize you made the scum too powerful so you're next game will be just as awesome and more fair.
I'm really surprised AI wasn't lynched after he said that I'd targeted him N3.
He lied, got caught, claimed the mod made a mistake, and it was just left alone? Seriously?
And what about the two scum falseclaims? Everyone else claimed roles that pretty much had to be in the game, and you get two peripheral character claims. Especially once you realize AI's claim is a lie, Syrenz/kpaca's claim just falls apart. And then there's DKD's claim. "Oh, I know everything the scum's doing because of my role".
Apart from that, the last two scum did pretty well.
I targeted Hunted Charlie N1 with Notification (which got delayed to N2, as you saw), targeted red_0mega N2 with Investigation (notice my vote early, which didn't have a chance at leaving him at all afterwards), and targeted AE N3 with Notification.
At first glance the setup does seem to disfavor the town, but when you realize that 13 (or 14) of the 14 (or 15) townies were power roles, things start to seem more fair, even accounting for Nathan's suicide ability. It certainly helped that the scum team in this game was relatively uncoordinated. Daytalk might have helped, though I feel that it's a bit overused.
I'm really surprised AI wasn't lynched after he said that I'd targeted him N3.
He lied, got caught, claimed the mod made a mistake, and it was just left alone? Seriously?
Me too. When a townie's true-claim seems scummier than a SK's false-claim, you know something's off. I for one was convinced that StormBlind was scum.
And what about the two scum falseclaims? Everyone else claimed roles that pretty much had to be in the game, and you get two peripheral character claims. Especially once you realize AI's claim is a lie, Syrenz/kpaca's claim just falls apart. And then there's DKD's claim. "Oh, I know everything the scum's doing because of my role".
Apart from that, the last two scum did pretty well.
Like I said, nacho wizard's claim could have easily been a lie as well. It would have been child's play to come up with those numbers as scum, and I went into the game expecting five mafia to begin with.
I targeted Hunted Charlie N1 with Notification (which got delayed to N2, as you saw), targeted red_0mega N2 with Investigation (notice my vote early, which didn't have a chance at leaving him at all afterwards), and targeted AE N3 with Notification.
Wow, I just now connected the dots between your Notification and the public announcement. I just assumed it was part of the flavor of the scene. The game might have gone completely differently if you hadn't been Delayed Night One...especially if Hunted Charlie was lynched because he Investigated as a Villain. No +1 to Lynch for me!
Judging from your results you did a good job, but it's no secret that the scum team could have done better.
Thank you guys for all the kind words and feedback. I can't wait to mod again to be honest.
@Nacho_Wizard: The reviewer for the game was Axelrod I believe. The game used to be way more swingy until he took a look at it.
I personally don't think the game was imbalanced. I think what hurt the town was claims. If the mafia and Sylar were shooting in the dark, the town wouldn't have lost their best power roles. WoD was way too obvious with his crumbing the day before sylar killed him.
Oh I also wanted to point out how different DL and the Invisible Man's roles are. DL has a one-shot hide that protects him from everything, including kills, but only for one night. The invisible man, while he CLAIMED he could stop kills, he only was protected from non-kill actions and against his will.
The ascetic role (non-kills blocked automatically) is decidedly anti-town because he can't be confirmed by any player role like a vanilla could. Cop results would come up blocked, etc. However, with DL's ability he could choose when to hide and also stop a kill without the high cost of not being able to be confirmed.
I think that Sylar's role was too powerful, and you just used the 'town doesn't have to kill him to win' bit to counter this. A bit that, honestly, I don't like. The majority of the Heroes television show was focused on stopping Sylar. And Sylar himself only ever tolerated any other character for a short period of time.
And yeah, obviously it didn't help that multiple townies felt the need to just dump their information into the thread.
Interesting setup overall, though. I thought it was fun. And solid, with some room for improvement.
I was pretty disappointed that AI used the same defense when he got killed that the mafia had used when I got killed, but no one even seemed to notice.
I think that Sylar's role was too powerful, and you just used the 'town doesn't have to kill him to win' bit to counter this. A bit that, honestly, I don't like. The majority of the Heroes television show was focused on stopping Sylar. And Sylar himself only ever tolerated any other character for a short period of time.
And yeah, obviously it didn't help that multiple townies felt the need to just dump their information into the thread.
Interesting setup overall, though. I thought it was fun. And solid, with some room for improvement.
I was pretty disappointed that AI used the same defense when he got killed that the mafia had used when I got killed, but no one even seemed to notice.
Two things about this.
1 - It was impossible for Sylar to be killed after DKD was lynched due to super strength. Either Sylar wins or Sylar + Town wins. Since the Town wincon didn't conflict with Sylar's, it didn't make sense for Sylar to be the sole winner.
2 - If you wanna go the flavor route, I'll mention this. Although Sylar was a main antagonist in the series, he didn't die. Him and the heroes commonly went their separate ways or even worked together.
You were equally powerful Cyan, you just got a run of bad luck. You were the counter to Sylar, not the end result of the game.
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Yeah, because giving me a one-shot vig is so useful when I can only use one ability at a time.
How about we stop gaming the mod there, son.
Seeing as how I can win with the town, I don't see what's "sporting" about lynching me. If you guys lynch me and lose as a result, you'll "deserve it."
That's totally different - you kill me, you'd get a kill. Not useful, sure, but it comes as-is. However, you are trying to have us believe that you gained a modified (improved) version of an ability, the improvement of which requires you to have lost for it to function. Given also that this 'improved' ability would be accessible to only you, this is at best bad game design, and at worse is totally fabricated.
Technically, I suppose, it could apply to Peter's absorption, but even so Nice Strawman though.
The key point is that we do not KNOW that you can win with the town - it is extrapolated from a quirk in the rules which would render you unlynchable and therefore technically the only player with a "kill". You must recognize that this is the correct play for the town, and that you have unfortunately not ended up your preferred position.
Since Zionite will not confirm whether or not AI can win with us, I do not see how there is any other course of action to take other for us to lynch him.
Wow, did you even read the ability text on Induced Radioactivity?
I'm pretty sure that if I had to be the last player alive to win, it would say as much. I even asked Zionite and guess what? Killing the town is completely unnecessary for me to win!
Lynching me is a bad idea.
I'm pretty that's supposed to be "the radioactivity doesn't hurt you, but it might other people", since that makes more sense. But I grant that it is ambiguously worded.
My point is that it is not - from Sylar's point of view - improved or refined. It's totally useless for him, since it requires him to be dead to function. This is my key point - it doesn't make sense.
And exactly how do we know that isn't what it says? Answer: We don't. trusting you when we don't have to is an obviously bad idea.
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Yeah, it might hurt other people if I shoot them in the face.
It's not totally useless. It triggers if someone tries to NK me (successfully or unsuccessfully), but since I can't be killed it's no surprise that dropkickdude didn't try that.
Gambling away a mod-confirmed win because of your rampant paranoia seems incredibly poor. If it comes down to it, we don't need your vote anyway.
Yay logic!
Well, you've only got one vote and can't kill me anyway. You set up the situation I'm in now, but if all three townies go along with it, then they're just as responsible for my loss. To be honest I'm not sure who I'd kill if lynched, but it could definitely go either way.
I don't think that's possible. The town wins once all the mafia are dead, and if I'm unlynchable at that point then I also win.
If by some strange circumstance the game hasn't ended then I have no idea what I would do; I would probably ask Zionite WTF is going on before making up my mind.
WELL IGNORED. You know what I mean.
Alright, that makes more sense. But it coming up after the fact makes it no more believable.
So the whole it being categorically NOT mod-confirmed just magically doesn't apply? We have literally only your word to rely on, and not blindly doing so is not "rampant paranoia", it's common bloody sense.
Fix'd
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I might, but I don't think it matters too much because it's still gaming the mod.
I didn't say that because I thought it was obvious given the fact that my abilities are similar to the ones I take from people I kill, and also because it's no longer relevant (because I claimed already).
Yeah, sure. Ignore the OP. The mod definitely wouldn't put any useful information regarding the town win con in there.
oh ffs, it's not the town win-con that's relevant it's YOURS. And whose word do we have to trust on that matter? That's right, YOU. Suddenly, the issue becomes apparent!
It's not relevant at all. The town wins when the mafia are dead. Therefore, the town wins once dkd dies. If my win con was "You win when you are the last player alive." I would lose as soon as dkd is dead because the town win con will have been fulfilled and mine will not (hence why I did not kill dkd last Night). If you think that I have the traditional SK win con, then lynching dkd would cause me to lose. There is literally no reason for you to want to kill me because lynching dkd will inevitably result in a town win, with the potential of letting me win, depending on my win con.
So can we lynch dkd already?
Breaks down like this:
My role confirms he is a Rogue
My role PM and the OP says I only need to kill Villains
DKD is the last Villain
QED
Vote: DKD
Vote: DKD
You'll have to give me a bit.
AsianInvasion - 1 - Ecophagy - (L-2)
Dropkickdude - 3 - AsianInvasion, Nacho_Wizard, TheIceMan - (L-0)Not Voting: Dropkickdude
______________________________
"Yes, I am Sylar." The serial killer spoke.
Some were shocked, others in disbelief. Most were not surprised at all.
"You must know what this means, Sylar. We have to kill you. We can't have someone out there like you. You kill for sport, and you are dangerous." Isaac Mendez responded.
"So you're no better than the Villains you seek." Sylar growled, "You would judge me as you yourselves were judged. You would kill me as you yourselves were killed."
"You're a killer too!" Charlie yelled at Sylar.
"That may be, but we can go our separate ways when all is said and done. The Villain won't stop as easily."
The small crowd, once 22 in number and now a mere 5, nodded in silence. It may be true...it may not be. The superhumans were left with a coin flip. The serial killer, or the villains?
______________________________
The files said Daniel Linderman was one of the founders of the Company. He was the sole reason evolved humans were being captured and killed. Linderman was dead now, with the Heroes standing over his body.
Sylar was no where to be found.
______________________________
Dead:
0. Chandra Suresh - Geneticist (Hero) : Died night 0, top of skull removed.
21. joboman, Angela Petrelli - Dreamer (Villain): Lynched Day 1.
20. falkonn, "Claude Rains" - Invisible Man (Hero): Died Night 1, top of skull removed.
12. Cyan, Peter Petrelli - Empathic Mimic (Hero): Died Night 1, shot to death.10. AlphaInsidious, Nathan Petrelli - Brother Politician (Hero): Died Night 1, suicide.
15. tordeck, Ando Masahashi - Friend (Hero): Lynched Day 2.
19. Hunted_Charlie, Niki Sanders - Disassociative (Hero): Died Night 2, top of skull removed.
6. TACKY, Matt Parkman - Bodyguard (Hero): Died Night 2, shot to death.
3. red_0mega, Candice Wilmer - Illusionist (Villain): Lynched Day 3.
22. Wrath_of_DoG, Claire Bennet - Kill-immune Reviver (Hero): Died Night 3, top of skull removed.
9. Nom_Anor, Micah Sanders - Hacker (Hero): Died Night 3, burned to death.
5. Archmage_Eternal, Molly Walker - Tracker (Villain): Lynched Day 4.
17. Cyouni, Noah Bennet - Public Cop (Hero): Died Night 4, shot to death.
12. Cyan, Peter Petrelli - Empathic Mimic (Hero): Died Night 4, top of skull removed.
11. StormBlind, DL Hawkins - Phaser (Hero): Lynched Day 5.
18. dracofaust, Mohinder Suresh - Role-cop (Hero): Died Night 5, top of skull removed.
14. Ace, Hiro Nakamura - Delayer (Hero): Died Night 5, shot to death.
2. kpaca (r. Syrenz), "The Haitian" - Mental Manipulator (Villain): Lynched Day 6.
1. vezokpiraka, Ted Sprague - Nuclear Man (Rogue): top of skull removed.
4. dropkickdude, Daniel Linderman - Doctor (Villain): Lynched Day 7.
Alive:
.07 Ecophagy, Meredith Gordon - Vigilante (Hero)
8. AsianInvasion, "Sylar" - Serial Killer (Rogue)
13. TheIceMan, Isaac Mendez - Precognitive (Hero)
16. nacho_wizard, Charlene 'Charlie' Andrews - Census Taker (Hero)
Dreamer:
Winner(s): Ecophagy, TheIceMan, Nacho_Wizard and the Heroes, as well as AsianInvasion, or Sylar the Rogue Serial Killer.
______________________________
3 Months Later
Sylar sits in a dark corner of a pub, spinning a fork on the table with the tip of his finger 5 inches away. He was bored, yes. Immortality will be a heavy burden for a very long time. His innate desire for abilities was waning as a result of immortality too. It was just...the hunt was over. There was nothing more to gain from tracking down these evolved humans even if he wanted to.
He would live forever (extenuating circumstances aside), and he had no plans for that time.
A patron burst into an obnoxiously drunk Irish laughter that filled the pub. Moments later a fork was in his eye. It seemed to just appear there.
The man screamed. Sylar sipped his ale.
It was going to be a long forever.
______________________________
The heroes went on as well, all but forgetting about the serial killer and his part in this tale. Some of the heroes maintained their 'normal' lives, even though they were never normal. Other heroes tried to use their powers for the good of mankind, no matter how small their part may have been.
Meredith Gordon moved to Las Vegas where she picked up bartending and dealing cards. Some nights she'd go out and fight crime with fire.
Isaac Mendez published the 9th Wonders comic book series with great success. It was a big hit and made Mendez a pop culture icon.
Charlie Andrews continued her work at the little diner in Texas. She also began taking classes at a nearby community college, making a perfect 4.0 grade point average.
______________________________
Special Mention for the great skill in which Dropkickdude and AsianInvasion played this game.
Well done to all the players for a great Mafia experience.
???
I want in on volume II.
Great game all. Thanks Zionite
They hate us cause they ain't us.
GG everyone though. It was a pretty tough read in some places, but overall I think everyone played a solid game of mafia.
Loved the flavor too. Haven't ever seen the show, but I read the flavor with intense passion. Keep up the great modding Zionite!
I presume I got Haitian'd...
Great game Zionite! I enjoyed every bit of it. The flavor was amazing, and the modding was superb.
One question now that it's over: Was there really a mix up about AE and AI or was AI lying during the massclaim?
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You got Haitian'd because we were trying to block you and subsequently anyone who targeted you that night. Either Ace Hiro'd Syrenz or AI used his "Concentrated Telekinesis" on you. I presume the latter.
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Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
2. I lied during the mass-claim; I had neglected that Cyouni must have targeted AE during Night Three while compiling my fake list of targeters.
3. WTF; the town won?
EDIT: I think Syrenz played a very good scum game but in the end kpaca had no chance due to flavor reasons. After StormBlind was lynched, the only town player who could have been false-claiming was nacho wizard/jordman (via OneMoreTime gimmick), but their play was obvtown so there was no chance of getting him lynched. For that matter, giving Claude and D.L. such similar roles was a bit questionable.
Before AE flipped Molly, I had planned on false-claiming that role name. Afterward, I deliberated several potential false-claims.
2. Isaac – Precognition
3. Meredith – Pryokinesis
4. The Haitian – Memory Manipulation
6. Eden (?) – Persuasion
7. Mohinder – Vanilla
8. Simone – Vanilla
9. Audrey – Vanilla
10. Sandra (?) – Vanilla
11. Kaito (?)
12. Thompson (?)
N1 I killed falkonn with concentrated TK because I assumed he couldn't be killed normally. Oops.
N2 I killed Hunted Charlie because I assumed I would also be able to choose my alignment. Oops.
N3 I killed Claire. Obv.
N4 I killed Cyan. Obv.
N5 I killed dracofaust. Obv. (I thought there was a chance he could be scum, too.)
N6 I killed vezokpiraka assuming dkd was going to kill a townie. In retrospect, the correct play in this situation would have been to either kill a townie or make no kill.
The only setup that's not revealed with everyones actions posted is how the Bomb truly worked. Under certain conditions, the Bomb would explode killing everyone that it can effect. It required Peter to have more than 3 powers, Nathan dead, and Peter absorbing Ted's power. If the game ended this way, Ted would be a winner (along with claire probably).
If it wasn't clear, Sylar and Ted are supposed to both die in the case Sylar kills Ted, but in this scenario Sylar was Kill-Immune.
In the case that Peter absorbs Sylar's ability (which failed in-game to Invisibility), then Peter would turn into an SK as well with all of Sylar's accumulated powers. (The next day it's assumed Peter outs Sylar as the SK then goes on to keep killing or keep secret, even with a body of an SK).
I was surprised at how often the players forgot Sylar was untargetable due to Invisibility.
I definitely want to see more games with absorbing roles because it turns out they're really fun. Sucks for Cyan though who never got to absorb anything.
So I obviously was trying to bluff that the only way I could die was if I was lynched with the untargetable stuff. That definitely didn't work out the way that I wanted it to.
I'm glad that we could win with Sylar. Honestly, it makes sense with the way things work in the series. Sylar is a bad dude, but he goes his own way. The neutral/rogue thing was a good call as I'm sure it would be tempting to at first categorize him as mafia.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?u=52729
Would Claire winning mean the town won too?
I guess it's a good thing I didn't kill vezokpiraka Night One like I was considering. I'm not sure if I agree with that implementation but I can't really complain.
I figured that would be the case. That would make it two games in which Cyan backstabbed the town.
The fact that one of the most powerful town roles was given to one of the best players in the game was a bit anti-climactic due to Cyan dying so quickly.
I certainly never did.
I included such an ability in Guildpact Mafia, as I'm sure joboman remembers. My version didn't get to keep multiple abilities at once, though.
Also, I still don't understand how the town won. Check my last post for the PM dialogue.
Since Claire would be alive in a bomb scenario, technically the town would win yes. But Vezo never figured out what exploding would entail and for good reason. It's supposed to just happen, not be planned.
That sounds to me like "It's impossible for the town and Sylar to win together." Are you saying that you were deliberately being vague and unhelpful? I would have played the game totally differently if I actually believed I could win with the town.
I guess I can't complain too much because I did win, but I still...talk about (purposeful?) miscommunication.
Odd, considering the bomb was Linderman's master plan during Season One. In the event of a bomb occurring in-game I think it would make more sense for Ted to be the only winner. (Maybe Claire commits suicide after seeing her friends and family killed.)
This was my first thought when I saw I was Linderman, but my flavor mentioned nothing about trying to cause the bomb to go off, so I left it alone.
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I think the game would've been horribly imbalanced had we not been able to win with Sylar. We mislynched twice - and both of those players were acting ridiculously scummily. Honestly the town didn't play too badly our best PRs just got picked off early. We lost our super cop, Claire and Peter all very quickly and that made the game quite difficult for us. The roles we had at the end were pretty useless.
I do think some of the french vanilla roles were more useful than others. Honestly, I found my role to be completely useless and I actually can't even think of a scenario where it would have been helpful. On top of that (and the PM mixup) I spent a good deal of time just confused about what my role actually did. I think roles like Nacho Wizard's are a lot more interesting because it's pretty clear how they can be used, it feels like the player can actually "do something", but they're also still unlikely to be very useful.
On the other hand, though, the flavor of this game was amazing. I love the amount of time Zionite put into the roles and the incredible complexity of the game. I thought that game was very fun to play in and activity was extremely good (including one of the most active first days I can recall). This game is really an example of how a game should be run and how enjoyable it is to play in a game that doesn't drag and doesn't need a lot of replacements. I think, again, a lot of credit is due to Zionite here for creating such a compelling environment to play in.
Edit: If there's ever a Volume II I very much look forward to it. Thanks, Zionite!
The funny thing is, I probably would have played exactly the same, but I wouldn't have been stressing so much about having to lie about it.
Isaac's role may have been a bit more useful if it both tracked and watched its target, though it would also step on Molly's toes, making it harder for her to claim. Another way to make the role more useful would have been to give him information about how the bomb worked, although I can also see why keeping that information completely secret makes sense, as it's totally game-breaking if it can be deliberately set up.
As I said in [The Family] thread, this was by far my favorite Mafia game and I'm very grateful to Zionite for the awesome experience.
I am waiting for Volume II. This was awesome.
Thank zionite.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
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The game was pretty fun! The flavor was very cool, it was awesome that almost everybody had at least a small sort of role (like mine - not terribly useful, but interesting). Syrenz and DKD played extremely well. Like, as we were lynching Stormblind (lol blacklist), I had sort of decided if one of them was scum, my town read was just too strong with all the other options. Then kpaca replaced in and screwed up, then DKD claimed scum. Anyway, the setup seems very cool and flavorful. My main issue is...
It's extremely unbalanced. I think the town wins this game like 1/10 times. For one, we shouldn't have been able to win with the Serial Killer. Not having to lynch him because his win condition doesn't mesh is not the point - we needed to lynch him because he kills townies and doesn't want us to win. That he didn't matter for endgame math made him worse than scum, because we couldn't trust him and he was going to keep giving the scum an extra kill. His role is a scum role, and calling it rogue doesn't change anything. Like, what if I had died before claiming? The town would have absolutely no reason to believe he was a rogue and we would have definitely lost.
22 players.
There could have been 6 freaking mafia.
1 SK
1 Neutral
vs.
14 Town
If we mislynch the first two days and no crosskills, there are only 8 town left, and we are in lylo on DAY FREAKIN' 3. As it was, we lynched correctly on 5 of 7 days and if we had done even a little worse, or if Sylar had been unwilling to kill Vezok, we would have lost.
So, the flavor was incredible, the game was still fun, and you did a fantastic job modding - BUT - I think the setup was extremely unbalanced. Did anybody help you review?
Edit: Like, I'm not trying to be mean. You put a lot of work into creating and running this game and did an awesome job, I just want you to realize you made the scum too powerful so you're next game will be just as awesome and more fair.
He lied, got caught, claimed the mod made a mistake, and it was just left alone? Seriously?
And what about the two scum falseclaims? Everyone else claimed roles that pretty much had to be in the game, and you get two peripheral character claims. Especially once you realize AI's claim is a lie, Syrenz/kpaca's claim just falls apart. And then there's DKD's claim. "Oh, I know everything the scum's doing because of my role".
Apart from that, the last two scum did pretty well.
I targeted Hunted Charlie N1 with Notification (which got delayed to N2, as you saw), targeted red_0mega N2 with Investigation (notice my vote early, which didn't have a chance at leaving him at all afterwards), and targeted AE N3 with Notification.
Me too. When a townie's true-claim seems scummier than a SK's false-claim, you know something's off. I for one was convinced that StormBlind was scum.
Like I said, nacho wizard's claim could have easily been a lie as well. It would have been child's play to come up with those numbers as scum, and I went into the game expecting five mafia to begin with.
Wow, I just now connected the dots between your Notification and the public announcement. I just assumed it was part of the flavor of the scene. The game might have gone completely differently if you hadn't been Delayed Night One...especially if Hunted Charlie was lynched because he Investigated as a Villain. No +1 to Lynch for me!
Judging from your results you did a good job, but it's no secret that the scum team could have done better.
@Nacho_Wizard: The reviewer for the game was Axelrod I believe. The game used to be way more swingy until he took a look at it.
I personally don't think the game was imbalanced. I think what hurt the town was claims. If the mafia and Sylar were shooting in the dark, the town wouldn't have lost their best power roles. WoD was way too obvious with his crumbing the day before sylar killed him.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
The ascetic role (non-kills blocked automatically) is decidedly anti-town because he can't be confirmed by any player role like a vanilla could. Cop results would come up blocked, etc. However, with DL's ability he could choose when to hide and also stop a kill without the high cost of not being able to be confirmed.
And yeah, obviously it didn't help that multiple townies felt the need to just dump their information into the thread.
Interesting setup overall, though. I thought it was fun. And solid, with some room for improvement.
I was pretty disappointed that AI used the same defense when he got killed that the mafia had used when I got killed, but no one even seemed to notice.
Two things about this.
1 - It was impossible for Sylar to be killed after DKD was lynched due to super strength. Either Sylar wins or Sylar + Town wins. Since the Town wincon didn't conflict with Sylar's, it didn't make sense for Sylar to be the sole winner.
2 - If you wanna go the flavor route, I'll mention this. Although Sylar was a main antagonist in the series, he didn't die. Him and the heroes commonly went their separate ways or even worked together.
You were equally powerful Cyan, you just got a run of bad luck. You were the counter to Sylar, not the end result of the game.